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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: The journey to net zero is one of the biggest

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Speaker 2: challenges humanity has ever faced. As temperatures keep rising, the

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Speaker 2: devastating effects of climate change are becoming more severe. In

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Speaker 2: this new series of Leaders with Lacwago's Green, we go

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Speaker 2: beyond the headlines and speak to the people who are

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Speaker 2: confronting the climate crisis through their work to learn how

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Speaker 2: they're positioning.

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Speaker 1: For the future.

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Speaker 2: I begin with the man in charge of the world's

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Speaker 2: largest sovereign wealth fund, valued at almost one point six

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Speaker 2: trillion dollars. Norges Bank Investment Management is the biggest owner

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Speaker 2: of stocks globally, with stakes in almost nine thousand companies.

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Speaker 2: It was established to invest Norway's vast fossil fuel riches,

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Speaker 2: but as the energy transition gains momentum, it's sought to

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Speaker 2: reduce exposure to oil and gas. Instead of divesting, its

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Speaker 2: strategy is to apply pressure from within. Nikolai Tangen has

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Speaker 2: been at the top of finance for over three decades,

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Speaker 2: but his toughest test may lie ahead. Thank you so

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Speaker 2: much for joining us on Leaders with Lack What goes Green?

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Speaker 2: So what does it take to be a leader in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 3: I think what it takes is more emphasis on empathy

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Speaker 3: and in a world which is leading towards whether it's

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Speaker 3: more machines, more AI, we need to lean more towards

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Speaker 3: what is it that makes us human?

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Speaker 2: So that whole thing is more important than ever before.

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Speaker 2: But the world is so complex at the moment. How

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Speaker 2: do you distinguish the noise from the facts. Well, that

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Speaker 2: is also more important than ever before.

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Speaker 3: It's to make that distinction and to just establish the facts,

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Speaker 3: talk to people and just exclude all the noise, all

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Speaker 3: the social media, all these.

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Speaker 4: Kind of things.

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Speaker 2: You're a leader almost like no other because you lead

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Speaker 2: the largest sovereign wealth one in the world. You want

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Speaker 2: to explain to everyone that's interested in what the Fund does,

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Speaker 2: and you also have a podcast, you do investments.

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Speaker 1: Like what kind of leader do you think you are?

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Speaker 3: I think I am a very including leader. And the

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Speaker 3: good thing by leading the people in the Fund is

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Speaker 3: that they are just so smart and so clever, and

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Speaker 3: so they don't need much leadership. They just need a

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Speaker 3: bit of direction and then they figure it out themselves.

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Speaker 2: But you've done quite a lot since since joining the Fund,

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Speaker 2: and that was during the pandemic, how do you see

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Speaker 2: the fund changing?

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Speaker 3: It's interesting, but in some ways it's easier to make

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Speaker 3: changes during a period like the pandemic, because people are

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Speaker 3: at home and they are spread out, and so when

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Speaker 3: you suggest some things, it's perhaps easier to get them to.

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Speaker 4: Do the new thing.

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Speaker 1: I don't believe that for one second. It's always hard.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if it's hard to change culture, it's hard

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Speaker 2: to change people.

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Speaker 3: Well, you have to explain why you do it, and

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Speaker 3: I think make even more sure than before that people

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Speaker 3: have a true purpose.

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Speaker 4: And so you have to distill down what is.

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Speaker 3: The purpose of what you do, what is the purpose

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Speaker 3: of your company, and make that very clear and repeat

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Speaker 3: it and repeat it and repeat it. And it's very

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Speaker 3: clear what all purposes is to make money for the

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Speaker 3: Norwegian population.

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Speaker 2: So why do you accept the job you were You

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Speaker 2: had a great life, I mean, you had a.

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Speaker 1: Hedge fund that was doing very well, you were earning

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Speaker 1: lots of money. Well, I had a great love, I

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Speaker 1: had a great life.

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Speaker 4: But I still have a great life and you know,

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Speaker 4: really good life.

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Speaker 3: Now. I was very keen on that job because one

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Speaker 3: I think it's one of the most important positions in

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Speaker 3: as at management, Right, I love as at management in

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Speaker 3: terms of the opportunity to develop that organization further. There

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Speaker 3: was there were great opportunities, and I love organizational development.

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Speaker 3: And then to do something nice for the country. I mean,

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Speaker 3: these three things came together in the same job.

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Speaker 2: Why do you love asset management because you can influence

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Speaker 2: and change the future? Or is it being clever than

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Speaker 2: anyone else?

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Speaker 3: Asset management is the most interesting job in the world,

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Speaker 3: perhaps after being at journalists.

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Speaker 4: Why is that?

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Speaker 3: Well, everything you eat, drink, drive, all these kind of

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Speaker 3: things is made by a company. You have you need

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Speaker 3: to understand psychology in terms of the companies. You need

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Speaker 3: to understand the corporate culture of companies. And then these

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Speaker 3: things change all the time. Right, you have the macroeconomies changing,

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Speaker 3: interest is changing, currencies are changing, and you know, the

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Speaker 3: data points are just changing all the time. You just

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Speaker 3: couldn't invent a more fascinating game even if you try it.

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Speaker 2: But it's harder now, I think, I feel it feels

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Speaker 2: like things are changing faster. Right, Inflation forecasts straight forecasts

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Speaker 2: are changing.

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Speaker 4: Is changing very fast.

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Speaker 3: So on the one hand, that means that you need

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Speaker 3: to be very observant and agile At the same time,

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Speaker 3: I think there is even more scope if you managed

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Speaker 3: to be contrarian in what you do, and if you

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Speaker 3: managed to be long term. I think that's where the

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Speaker 3: money is. The big arbitrage now is to be contrariant

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Speaker 3: and long term.

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Speaker 2: What do you think markets are getting wrong right now?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's a bit kind of arrogant to say that

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Speaker 3: the market is wrong, because what is the market. The

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Speaker 3: market is the total IQ of all the people in

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Speaker 3: the world, right, So that's a tough one.

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Speaker 4: I do.

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Speaker 3: I do think that inflation will be tough to get done.

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Speaker 3: There is more near shoring. We are seeing some well,

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Speaker 3: we have recently seen some more pressure on raw materials.

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Speaker 4: Way increases are quite high.

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Speaker 3: So I suspect that we won't see the type of

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Speaker 3: breakouts that many people expect.

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Speaker 1: What do you see?

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's this US exceptionalism, which is what we're

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Speaker 2: seeing in the US economy, the inflation data, what the

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Speaker 2: FED does. What have we gotten wrong on the US economy?

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Speaker 3: Well, the US economy is actually pretty good, certainly relative

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Speaker 3: to Europe, right and we see it as well when

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Speaker 3: I have when I see US CEOs, they are just

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Speaker 3: seeing the backjob for doing business in America is so

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Speaker 3: much better than doing business in Europe. So a lot

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Speaker 3: of things are going right in America.

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Speaker 2: How much time do you spend looking at what the

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Speaker 2: Fed does or what the economy does? And how much

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Speaker 2: time do you spend understanding your companies and thinking about

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Speaker 2: what themes you need to be invested in.

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Speaker 3: No, I think they go They kind of go together.

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Speaker 3: I think you understand the economy through the companies. So

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Speaker 3: my job, in a way is to speak to companies

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Speaker 3: and try to create this kind of mosaic of information.

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Speaker 2: What do you see as the biggest change for our economies?

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Speaker 2: Is it AI which is being priced in? Or is

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Speaker 2: it geopolitics.

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Speaker 3: I don't think you can differentiate AI from geopolitics anymore.

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Speaker 3: They are so deeply intertwined because AI is now an

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Speaker 3: important part of weapons, systems, of healthcare, research, of car technology,

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Speaker 3: EV technology, So they just go together.

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Speaker 4: So it's a new thing now. Micro chips is also.

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Speaker 3: An important part of the geopolitics wasn't to the same

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Speaker 3: extent before. So all these things are just much more

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Speaker 3: complicated than they have been.

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Speaker 2: You're tantalized right by this exciting change, when many people

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Speaker 2: are actually really worried about what's coming.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think the world has never been more has

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Speaker 3: never been more exciting. Right, what's happening in AI is

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Speaker 3: leading to some tremendous change, leading to some huge progress,

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Speaker 3: for instance, in in the way we do research in

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Speaker 3: an R and D, in the farmer industry. It's improving

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Speaker 3: the you know, the weather forecast, It's improving a lot

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Speaker 3: of things. Right, It's just a tremendous increase in compute power.

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Speaker 3: So generally it's a positive thing.

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Speaker 1: Are you mainly positive or do you also worry about

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Speaker 1: you know, it's.

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Speaker 3: Mainly I think it's mainly positive. And then the question,

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Speaker 3: of course is how do you regulate this? I think

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Speaker 3: it's going to be very tough to regulate because it's

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Speaker 3: so embedded into kind of the competitive landscape between the superpowers.

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Speaker 2: What's it mean for your investments in AI? You don't,

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Speaker 2: of course, you don't choose one hundred percent? Will you

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Speaker 2: invest because you have you know, a framework, but by

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Speaker 2: the government. But how do you see the adoption of

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Speaker 2: AI going forward?

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Speaker 4: We are seeing the adoption we say fast adoption.

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Speaker 3: And it's also interesting what are the applications for productivity?

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Speaker 4: So on the podcast we have.

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Speaker 3: I asked Samult, and you know, what kind of productivity

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Speaker 3: growth should we see in our company over the next

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Speaker 3: felve months, and he thought we should see twenty percent.

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Speaker 4: Right, So I will.

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Speaker 3: Around in the office and say, hey, how are you

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Speaker 3: going to become twenty percent more efficient?

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Speaker 4: What exactly are you doing? And I think we all

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Speaker 4: need to ask ourselves about that.

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Speaker 1: How are you?

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Speaker 4: How are you doing?

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Speaker 3: How?

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Speaker 4: I was just asking you first?

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Speaker 1: So for me maybe I can have multiple language.

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Speaker 2: Skills exactly, which is something that actually you were mentioning.

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Speaker 2: You have this podcast, which I know you enjoy doing.

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Speaker 2: Why do you enjoy it so much?

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Speaker 4: Oh? Why? I mean?

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Speaker 3: So we started the podcast in order to give the

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Speaker 3: Norwegian population insight into the type of companies they own, right,

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Speaker 3: And it's basically we just learn a lot. We learn

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Speaker 3: a lot which is relevant for students to listen to

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Speaker 3: the podcast business leaders, we ourselves. It's important and you

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Speaker 3: have the ability to talk to the people who actually

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Speaker 3: kind of leave the world.

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Speaker 4: It's fascinating, right.

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Speaker 3: And also I need to read up on all these industries,

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Speaker 3: so that's what I do during the weekends.

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Speaker 4: Many of them have written books.

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Speaker 3: I have to read the books, you know, you have

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Speaker 3: to the insight into various industries.

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Speaker 4: It's it's fantastic for learning.

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Speaker 1: Who's the toughest interview you've done? Well?

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Speaker 3: We had a pretty tough one with with Elon Musk

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Speaker 3: because we had some technical issues, and of course that

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Speaker 3: you need to kind of keep concentration whilst you have

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Speaker 3: some technical issues. That's not so that's not so easy.

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Speaker 3: But I think they're all they're all very good. I mean,

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Speaker 3: these are great people and it's fascinating to talk to

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Speaker 3: talk to them.

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Speaker 2: You're a big investor in test, do you do you

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Speaker 2: get into the nitty gritty of actually what a company does,

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Speaker 2: what they're promising, to see whether your investment continues.

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Speaker 4: Well, we don't. We don't really, I don't really do

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Speaker 4: that kind.

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Speaker 3: Of nitty gritty, like how many cars are you going

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Speaker 3: to tell? How many of them are red, how many

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Speaker 3: of them are blue? You know, all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 4: I don't.

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Speaker 3: I just don't think that's necessarily important for the long

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Speaker 3: term success of the company. But so why what where

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Speaker 3: I spend time is on the business model to try

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Speaker 3: to understand where where they make money and why they

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Speaker 3: should continue to do well in the future.

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Speaker 4: And a lot of time on corporate culture leadership.

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Speaker 3: I think corporate culture is is completely underrat you know,

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Speaker 3: it's just underestimated because you can have two companies which

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Speaker 3: do exactly the same, or at least that's what looks

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Speaker 3: like on the surface.

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Speaker 4: One is hugely successful, one is a complete failure. What

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Speaker 4: is it?

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Speaker 3: You know, there is just something in the company and

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Speaker 3: the way they conduct business which is so important.

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Speaker 2: Coming up Nikolay Tangen on why the world has stumbled

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Speaker 2: on the path to a greener future. The commitment of

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Speaker 2: oil and gas companies is crucial to achieving net zero.

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Speaker 2: The industry supplies more than half of the world's energy

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Speaker 2: and is one of the planet's biggest polluters. Oil majors

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Speaker 2: have vowed to cut production and slash emissions, but recently,

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Speaker 2: after record breaking profits, some have walked back on those pledges,

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Speaker 2: despite pressure from institutional investors like Norway Sovereign Wealth Fund.

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Speaker 2: I continue the conversation with Nikolai Tangan. You've been one

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Speaker 2: of the most committed to climate change and to ESG matters.

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Speaker 1: Are we taking a backstep as a world?

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Speaker 3: Yes, we have done unfortunately, very unfortunate, but yes, the

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Speaker 3: world has taken a step back and I guess we

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Speaker 3: are one of the few big investors out there now

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Speaker 3: who continue to be consistent and who continued to talk

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Speaker 3: about these things the way we have done all the time.

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Speaker 3: But many people have kind of turned on the volume

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Speaker 3: on that messaging.

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Speaker 1: Why have we taken a step back?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think on the back of higher energy prices,

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Speaker 3: the energy sector got more confidence, there was more focus

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Speaker 3: on energy security, and that's kind of what started it, right,

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Speaker 3: And then you have had some political movements as well

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Speaker 3: which have moved in the same direction.

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Speaker 2: Nicolete, when you look on on some of your investments,

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Speaker 2: how difficult is it to take a company, a big company,

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Speaker 2: an oil major and change it from within as an investor,

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Speaker 2: and therefore how difficult is it to decide to stay

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Speaker 2: invested in that company?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's an important question because you can do two things.

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Speaker 3: If a company doesn't quite do what you think they

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Speaker 3: should be doing, you can sell it, or you can

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Speaker 3: continue to have a dialogue with them and try to

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Speaker 3: get them to change tech.

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Speaker 4: Right now, what do you achieve if you sell it?

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Speaker 3: You basically end up with a company which is owned

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Speaker 3: by investors who don't care. That doesn't make a lot

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Speaker 3: of sense. So therefore, we continue to have a dialogue

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Speaker 3: with these company's, show understanding and remain invested whilst they

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Speaker 3: are in that transition period.

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Speaker 2: Where do you feel you've made a difference and where

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Speaker 2: have you been disappointed?

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Speaker 3: I think we made a difference many places. Now I

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Speaker 3: wouldn't say we have revolutionized the oil and gas industry,

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Speaker 3: but we have been been supportive and helpful in many cases.

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Speaker 3: And that's also what we hear back from the companies.

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Speaker 2: When you look at I think you have a commitment

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Speaker 2: to make all your portfolio and at zero by twenty fifty.

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Speaker 1: Is that achievable? Certainly a goal we have.

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Speaker 2: Why are you so committed to climate change in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 3: Four because there are There are two things which is important.

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Speaker 3: One is to not let small problems become big. But

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Speaker 3: it's also important not to let big problems become small. Now,

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Speaker 3: the climate situation we're in, it's clearly a very, very

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Speaker 3: big problem. We had the hottest year on record last year.

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Speaker 3: It started to have impact in many, many different ways.

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Speaker 3: You see it in the reinsurance prices, you see it

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Speaker 3: in a lot of you know, worse harvests. It's leading

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Speaker 3: in some cases to increase immigration immigration, so it's impacting

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Speaker 3: the world in very many different ways. Now, at the

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Speaker 3: end of the day, this is actually a financial risk

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Speaker 3: because it's a risk to the value of the fund.

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Speaker 3: And if you're invested across the world and one company pollutes,

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Speaker 3: you can't hide it, right because you capture that pollution

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Speaker 3: in all the other mean as your own. So it's

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Speaker 3: very very important that the main shareholder is engaged in this.

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Speaker 2: Do you worry that actually, you know, investors don't engage

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Speaker 2: with some of these companies. And I know you also

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Speaker 2: have an ethics basically committee, the ethics Council whether you

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Speaker 2: can invest, which is independent but gives you advice or

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Speaker 2: actually forces you to either sell investments or not invest

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Speaker 2: in companies that are not ethical. How does that relationship work?

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Speaker 3: No, it works really well. So this is a separate

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Speaker 3: counsel of ethics. They have various criteria they look at

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Speaker 3: for instance, human the human rights criteria, the cold criteria,

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Speaker 3: Uklear weapon criteria, and then they would go into deep

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Speaker 3: research with various companies to see what do they whether

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Speaker 3: they breach their criteria and if they do, they would

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Speaker 3: advise us to exit.

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Speaker 1: And has that happened? Yeah, sure on climate change.

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Speaker 3: On climate change, we do exclude some companies over selves,

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Speaker 3: and it can be various parts of that they can be.

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Speaker 4: That could be, for instance, people use water resources and

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Speaker 4: so on.

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Speaker 2: I think you're also invested in like physical assets like

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Speaker 2: not went sure, but renewables. What makes more sense for

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Speaker 2: an investor like yourselves being a shareholder actually.

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Speaker 1: Owning the parks. I think you can do both.

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Speaker 4: You know, we do both.

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Speaker 3: We own some of the companies who are involved in

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Speaker 3: these projects, but we also own particular projections, not that

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Speaker 3: many because it recently came into our mandate, so we

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Speaker 3: have we've done it. And then also in the beginning

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Speaker 3: the returns weren't that's attractive. We think the returns are

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Speaker 3: better now and so we have accelerated that activity.

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Speaker 2: And this is better returns better in Europe because there's

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Speaker 2: more regulation to push towards green energy or actually does

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Speaker 2: the Inflation Production Act means that there's going to be

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Speaker 2: more on shore and more appeal for green technology in

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Speaker 2: the UN.

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Speaker 3: I think what we've seen is that the Inflation Reduction

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Speaker 3: Act has made the many of the investments in the

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Speaker 3: US more attractive than what the score is in Europe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and will that change with the mean China is

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Speaker 2: also doing a lot of evs. So when you look

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Speaker 2: at all of all of this competition across the energy sectors,

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Speaker 2: where do you think you will be invested in five

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Speaker 2: six years from now?

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Speaker 4: Well, it's difficult to say.

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Speaker 3: And also we don't know whether the inflation reduction will

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Speaker 3: remain or whether it's going to be renewed, or whether

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Speaker 3: it's going to be you know, changed, So I don't

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Speaker 3: I don't think. I don't think we really know that.

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Speaker 3: But for the time being in the US looks looks

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Speaker 3: pretty good. How do you see the US political cycle

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Speaker 3: and the rest.

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Speaker 4: So we have no view on that.

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Speaker 3: We are a very long term investor and we remain

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Speaker 3: invested throughout political cycles.

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Speaker 2: But does this year, I think four and a half

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Speaker 2: billion people go to vote, does that test AI or

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Speaker 2: does that test your investment strategy?

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Speaker 3: I don't think you test our investment strategy because we

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Speaker 3: generally are invested over these type of cycles. I don't

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Speaker 3: think you can kind of change your portfolio according to

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Speaker 3: where the election is. And also markets are pretty sophisticated, right,

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Speaker 3: so they are their account they are basically discounting, you know,

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Speaker 3: the current probability of the various elections we are seeing.

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Speaker 3: It is questioning the use of AI in social media,

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Speaker 3: for sure, we are seeing that in many places.

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Speaker 2: Does it matter to you know, to you being the

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Speaker 2: largest sovereign wealth fund in the world, does it gives

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Speaker 2: you more access, for example, and political cloud to invest

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Speaker 2: in places?

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Speaker 4: No, we would not have political cloud.

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Speaker 3: It's very important that the fund remains not political and

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Speaker 3: so we are very very careful staring that balance.

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Speaker 1: But do you see it as a force for good?

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't say the fund is a force for good,

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Speaker 3: but we are trying to care about the important things

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Speaker 3: when it comes to future returns for the fund.

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Speaker 2: Coming up, Nikolay Tangen on his love for learning and

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Speaker 2: why combining knowledge is key to innovation. Nikolai tang Again

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Speaker 2: has been in charge of Norway's sovereign wealth fund since

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty, but the former hedge fund manager turned podcast

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Speaker 2: host and philanthropist has other passions. Tangan owns the biggest

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Speaker 2: private collection of Nordic Modernist.

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Speaker 1: Art and even took.

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Speaker 2: A career break to study art history. I continue the conversation.

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Speaker 2: You love also going back to school and you know,

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Speaker 2: learning about leadership, what drives you.

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Speaker 3: I just love learning, right, I think we just need

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Speaker 3: to learn otherwise, what's the point. So you'd go back

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Speaker 3: to school. I've been back to school a few times.

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Speaker 3: I did a degree when I was thirty six in

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Speaker 3: art history. I did one in social psychology when I

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Speaker 3: was you know, fifty.

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Speaker 4: I'd love to go back to school. What would you

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Speaker 4: study this time?

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Speaker 3: So many cool things. I think anthropology will be quite fun.

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Speaker 3: We're fun to study music looked so many things worry

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Speaker 3: about though. I mean, you seem very optimistic by nature.

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Speaker 3: You love your job, but it also feels like the

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Speaker 3: world is being tested. What do people need to study

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Speaker 3: today to make sure that whatever comes our way, we

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Speaker 3: take the right decision. I think the more, in my mind,

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Speaker 3: the more different type of things you know, the better

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Speaker 3: it is.

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Speaker 4: I personally value.

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Speaker 3: I'd rather have several miles degrees than want pH D,

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Speaker 3: for instance, because I think the way you combine knowledge,

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Speaker 3: that's how you create innovation, That's how you create new solutions.

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Speaker 3: I think that's really interesting. It the more different type

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Speaker 3: of these type of languages you know, the more you

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Speaker 3: can communicate with various types of people in the organization.

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Speaker 4: And I think it's really valuable.

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Speaker 2: Because of what that makes you understand investment better because

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Speaker 2: everything's connected, or it's just enriching your mind.

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Speaker 4: No, you just I think you understand the world much better.

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Speaker 1: Is there an investor you admire?

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Speaker 4: There are many good investors out there. There are many

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Speaker 4: good investors out there.

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Speaker 3: I think the more low term you are and the

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Speaker 3: more your ability to take contra and investments, the better

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Speaker 3: you the better you are, and the better returns you'll have.

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Speaker 2: Is it more difficult now to make long term investments

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Speaker 2: just because of everything that's been thrown at us? I mean,

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Speaker 2: do you know, can you say with certainty that you

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Speaker 2: know what our world looks like in ten years?

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Speaker 4: Of course not. I haven't got a cure. I don't

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Speaker 4: even know what the world is going to look like tomorrow.

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Speaker 4: So it is sunny, So it is. It is.

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Speaker 3: It is difficult to be a long term investor. It's

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Speaker 3: it's difficult because for two reasons, everything moves faster. Right,

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Speaker 3: So we we basically talk and walk ten percent faster

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Speaker 3: than we did thirty years ago. It's incredible, right, So

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Speaker 3: the whole everything we do is moving faster, and sometimes

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Speaker 3: it's the most difficult thing is not to do anything okay.

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Speaker 3: So to be long term means that there are periods

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Speaker 3: where you don't do anything. So you come home from

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Speaker 3: work and it's just like, hey, what do you do today?

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Speaker 3: I did nothing? Tuesday I did nothing, Wednesday I did nothing.

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Speaker 3: You have to you know your your partner is going

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Speaker 3: to start to wander by Friday. What's what are you

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Speaker 3: actually doing at work?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: So it's very complicated not to do something. And also

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Speaker 3: incentive structures also is they are also often encouraging people

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Speaker 3: to do something.

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Speaker 4: So but the more you can, the more you can

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Speaker 4: live in your old world.

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Speaker 3: Do you make your own decisions independent of what other

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Speaker 3: people think, the better they will be.

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Speaker 2: I think I think everyone's talking about real estate at

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Speaker 2: the moment, how it's going to crash again. How do

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Speaker 2: you deal with if not the historia, certainly a lot

447
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,920
Speaker 2: of market whispers about things going wrong.

448
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a complicated issue. You know, we have we

449
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 3: have big real estate holdings in many of the main

450
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 3: cities in the world. We've got nearly a thousand, you know,

451
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 3: investments in places like New York and you know, Washington

452
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 3: and Boston and so on, London, Paris that we probably

453
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,880
Speaker 3: adjusted the values down by a quarter at least, and

454
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 3: whether they will continue down it is difficult to say.

455
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 3: It depends on interest rates, It depends on it depends

456
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 3: on various factors.

457
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 1: So you get interest.

458
00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 2: Rates right, longer term and your portfolio, of course, isn't

459
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:02,919
Speaker 2: a much better place.

460
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 1: Is that what you try and understand and focus on

461
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 1: every day?

462
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,640
Speaker 3: I think I think where rates are going is it's

463
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 3: it's very important. I'm so understanding whether returns will come.

464
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 2: I think one of the questions you probably get asked

465
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 2: the most is how you build a good team around you?

466
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 1: Is that also the most difficult question to answer?

467
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 4: No, I think that's that's pretty straightforward. You you hire them.

468
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 4: You hire the best people you can get. You hire

469
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 4: people who are better than yourself.

470
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 3: You hire people who have integrity and who are long

471
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 3: term figures, who don't jump jobs, but who've shown that

472
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 3: they are loyal and can stay.

473
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 4: In a job for you know, at least five years.

474
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,120
Speaker 3: And then you when you have clever people, you don't

475
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 3: need to particularly manage them.

476
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 4: You just figure out where you're going and you and

477
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 4: you go there together. Do you make sure you have

478
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 4: some fun?

479
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 1: But so, what's your so if you don't have to

480
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 1: manage them.

481
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 2: What's your what's your kind of resondet you're there to steer.

482
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 3: Can figure out you to kind of figure out well

483
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 3: the direction you should go in right and encourage, encourage them,

484
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 3: give them praise when they do good things, and make

485
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 3: sure they thrive, make sure they are in the right position.

486
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 3: I have seen people who have been miserable and then

487
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 3: you you change their their job, and then they flourish

488
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 3: and they thrive and they love it. And that's in

489
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 3: a way one of the most fulfilling things you can

490
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 3: do as as a manager.

491
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 2: I think, Okay, where will you being in three years?

492
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 2: I don't all where would you like to be in

493
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 2: three years?

494
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 3: So my my current job, you know, has a has

495
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 3: a time limit. And to extend beyond that, they would

496
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 3: I would do They would need to ask me right,

497
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 3: and then I saw that would need to be an

498
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 3: agreement that we.

499
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 1: Get to together, but you'd like to stay.

500
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 4: I have no officially on this.

501
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. I like that.

502
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,400
Speaker 1: It's very c I A I can either deny, no, confirm.

503
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: Thank you you beques. Thank you so much. M HM