Speaker 1: In this episode of news World. Reform Alliance is a
Speaker 1: coalition of philanthropists, activists, bipartists and experts, advocates and policymakers
Speaker 1: working on common sense solutions to transform the criminal justice
Speaker 1: system and probation and parole with the goal of dramatically
Speaker 1: reducing the number of people trapped in the criminal justice
Speaker 1: system and significantly increasing the number of people moving from
Speaker 1: supervision to work and well being. I'm really please welcome
Speaker 1: my guest and good friend, Jessica Jackson. She is a
Speaker 1: remarkable pioneer and has made a huge difference in the
Speaker 1: lives of people. She's joining today to discuss the U
Speaker 1: Belong program they just launched for Second Chance Month. Jessica,
Speaker 1: welcome and thank you for joining us again on newch World.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1: You know, I think people be very anteresoed. Can you
Speaker 1: share a bit of your own personal journey, What drew
Speaker 1: you to the work of criminal justice reform and how
Speaker 1: did that experience shape your mission at Reform Alliance.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I first became invested in this work about twenty
Speaker 2: years ago when my former husband and father of my
Speaker 2: first child was incarcerated for a drug related offense. In Georgia.
Speaker 2: That was a shock to me. I saw the failures
Speaker 2: of the system up close, and I saw that he
Speaker 2: never got the addiction treatment that he needed while he
Speaker 2: was inside, and that he actually struggled to find work
Speaker 2: when he was released, despite having been an electrician prior
Speaker 2: to going into the prison and working the entire time
Speaker 2: he was in the prison. He had a parole violation
Speaker 2: at one point that was basically a paperwork mix up
Speaker 2: by the sheriff's office that sent him back to jail
Speaker 2: for almost two months and completely derailed all of the
Speaker 2: progress that he had made. So, you know, at first,
Speaker 2: when he went into prison, I thought, gosh, there's been
Speaker 2: a terrible mistake. They must not realize that, you know,
Speaker 2: they've sent this man who's a wonderful father and son
Speaker 2: and employer and not a danger at all to society
Speaker 2: into the prison. But then I came there for a
Speaker 2: visit and I looked around and I saw that there
Speaker 2: were so many families just like mine that were in
Speaker 2: the same position, and that millions of Americans actually had
Speaker 2: a story similar to mine. Because there's more than one
Speaker 2: hundred and thirteen million Americans that have had a family
Speaker 2: member who are incarcerated and about seventy nine million Americans
Speaker 2: who have a criminal record.
Speaker 1: But meanwhile, before you go on, I just want to
Speaker 1: make sure that our audience understands how truly remarkable you
Speaker 1: are and why. From the very first time I met you,
Speaker 1: I just thought working with you was a great privilege.
Speaker 1: You were a high school dropout with a two month
Speaker 1: old daughter, and when your husband goes to jail, you
Speaker 1: go to school, and you end up graduating both from
Speaker 1: college and from law school. You're pretty remarkable.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you. You know, I think I was blessed
Speaker 2: in the fact that I didn't realize how tough the
Speaker 2: journey would be, and frankly, it gave me a purpose.
Speaker 2: I knew that I was in a position to do
Speaker 2: something about the system, and that I had a duty
Speaker 2: to do. So.
Speaker 1: How did you find the internal strength raising a daughter,
Speaker 1: going to school? All that must have seemed like a
Speaker 1: real mountain to climb.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. And I remember when he actually got sentenced.
Speaker 2: We didn't know he would be sentenced that day. We
Speaker 2: thought we were just going for, you know, hearing, and
Speaker 2: he ended up taking a plea and being sentenced in
Speaker 2: the same day. And I brought my daughter, and he
Speaker 2: drove a big four to f two point fifty. At
Speaker 2: the time, I couldn't drive it. I was a small
Speaker 2: car girl. So he drove us to the courthouse in
Speaker 2: Gwinnett County and Georgia, and I remember I was carrying
Speaker 2: our two month old daughter. We go in and they
Speaker 2: had the proceeding, and I really didn't understand what was happening.
Speaker 2: All I knew is that suddenly the bailiff came up
Speaker 2: next to him. I heard him say he was guilty,
Speaker 2: and I heard the judge accept the plea and then
Speaker 2: they said remanded to custody. And the bailiff came up
Speaker 2: to him and he handed him his wallet and his
Speaker 2: phone and his wedding ring and he just turned around
Speaker 2: and blew me a kiss. And that was it. And
Speaker 2: so now I'm standing there and I'm holding car keys
Speaker 2: to a truck. I can't even drive home, and it
Speaker 2: was just so overwhelming. I remember going to the bathroom
Speaker 2: and I'm trying to nurse my daughter and I was
Speaker 2: looking down at her and my tears were just falling
Speaker 2: on her face. And I remember just thinking, oh my god,
Speaker 2: what am I going to do? How am I going
Speaker 2: to provide for us. And it took me a couple months,
Speaker 2: and then I realized I wanted to go to school
Speaker 2: and I wanted to get it done. And my mom
Speaker 2: made kind of a checklist for me, like, you need
Speaker 2: to go to college, you need to take the l set,
Speaker 2: you need to go Aloft school, you need to take
Speaker 2: the bar. And I just focused on putting one foot
Speaker 2: in front of the other and just getting it done.
Speaker 1: It's a remarkable story, and I can personally attest that
Speaker 1: you came out of it all as a remarkable person.
Speaker 1: Part of your career has been a passion for the
Speaker 1: Reform Alliance and the work it does. Talk about the
Speaker 1: Reform Alliance, how it came together, what it's trying to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm incredibly proud of all the work that
Speaker 2: we've done here at Reform Alliance. You know, we focus
Speaker 2: exclusively on making communities safer by improving our supervision system.
Speaker 2: Probation and parole actually make up the largest segment of
Speaker 2: our criminal justice system, twice the number of those who
Speaker 2: are incarcerated, and yet nobody is really advocating for changes
Speaker 2: to that system. In fact, so much that it's become
Speaker 2: a major driver of incarceration, with about forty two percent
Speaker 2: of our jails and prisons being filled with people who
Speaker 2: committed a violation of probation or parole. And sometimes those
Speaker 2: aren't even new crimes. In fact, a lot of the
Speaker 2: time is just a technical violation like the one that
Speaker 2: they thought my ex husband had done with not reporting.
Speaker 2: So ultimately this ends up compromising our public safety because
Speaker 2: so many resources are going into this system which could
Speaker 2: otherwise be spent on preventing crimes, solving crimes, treating the
Speaker 2: really serious crimes, making sure they're supervising people who really
Speaker 2: need it. So we set out at Reform Alliance to
Speaker 2: bring change to the system, and of course it started
Speaker 2: with one person. It started with artist Meek Mill, who
Speaker 2: was a big rapper in Pennsylvania who had been convicted
Speaker 2: of a crime when he was eighteen and had been
Speaker 2: on probation for his entire adult life, about twelve years
Speaker 2: at that point, and he had a judge who was
Speaker 2: a real stickler. She looked for ways to send him
Speaker 2: back into prison, and at one point he received a
Speaker 2: technical violation because he had broken up a fight at
Speaker 2: an airport and he had popped a wheelie on his
Speaker 2: motorcycle in a music video, which apparently is not legal.
Speaker 2: So she said, you know what, You're going back to prison,
Speaker 2: and she sentenced him to two to four years in prison.
Speaker 2: But luckily for meek Mill, he had some very powerful
Speaker 2: friends and they pulled together and ran a campaign. I
Speaker 2: was honored at the time to be a part of it,
Speaker 2: and were able to actually get him out. They spent
Speaker 2: about seven million dollars on getting him out right. And
Speaker 2: the kicker there is that later the underlying crime that
Speaker 2: he had been sentenced for and the reason he's on
Speaker 2: probation in the first place. He was actually exonerated for.
Speaker 2: So he was innocent and just placed on supervision for
Speaker 2: this whole time. But when he came out, he did
Speaker 2: something that I think surprised a lot of us, and
Speaker 2: he said, listen, I could go on tour and keep
Speaker 2: making music, and I will do that, but I also
Speaker 2: feel like I need to do more and I need
Speaker 2: to help the men and women that I left behind.
Speaker 2: And so he pulled everybody together and we have the
Speaker 2: most unlikely board, everybody from Bob Kraft to Michael Rubin
Speaker 2: to jay Z Meek Mill. He pulled everybody together and
Speaker 2: Reform Alliance was born.
Speaker 1: That's an amazing story. How long have you been with
Speaker 1: Reform Alliance?
Speaker 2: So I like to say I was here pre Reform Alliance,
Speaker 2: since I worked on the campaign to Free Meek, but
Speaker 2: I've been here since its inception, which was January twenty third,
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. I started out as our Chief Advocacy Officer,
Speaker 2: so overseeing all of the policy work, all of the
Speaker 2: organizing work. And I was named CEO last year in August.
Speaker 1: And you all have been both effective at the federal
Speaker 1: level but also at the state level. And I want
Speaker 1: to start at the state level. Now. I think passed
Speaker 1: twenty bills in twelve different states, and you just passed
Speaker 1: two major reforms in Virginia and Maryland. Can you give
Speaker 1: us a flavor of what you're doing.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I will say we also had another win
Speaker 2: in Virginia just Friday night, So we've now passed twenty
Speaker 2: one bills in twelve states. Very exciting. So we just
Speaker 2: passed two major reforms in Virginia and Maryland, both of
Speaker 2: which had strong bipartisan support, which you don't see on
Speaker 2: a whole lot of issues these days. They also had
Speaker 2: an incredible coalition, so people on both sides of the aisle,
Speaker 2: business leaders, faith leaders, community leaders that came together along
Speaker 2: with the backing of law enforcement and said that they
Speaker 2: felt strongly these changes needed to be made to the system.
Speaker 2: There So, in terms of what our bills do, they
Speaker 2: offer people who are on supervision, probation or parole a
Speaker 2: way to earn their way off sooner by taking life
Speaker 2: changing classes or working or seeking treatment. If they have
Speaker 2: any mental health or substance abuse issues, they can earn
Speaker 2: credits that help them get off of probation and parole sooner.
Speaker 2: This is both in the interest of the individual but
Speaker 2: also really in the interest of the community, because what
Speaker 2: we've seen is when people are getting their education, when
Speaker 2: they're working, when they're getting the mental health help that
Speaker 2: they need, that they're actually able to turn their lives
Speaker 2: around and are way more likely to be successful and
Speaker 2: become employed, tax paying citizens than people who just come
Speaker 2: out and don't have those kind of programs available or
Speaker 2: aren't incentivized to do those programs. So it's really in
Speaker 2: the interest of public safety, which I think is why
Speaker 2: you saw such a broad support. We also work to
Speaker 2: make sure that the conditions that are placed on people
Speaker 2: actually bear a rational relationship to the crime that was committed.
Speaker 2: For example, right now, if you were to shoplift in
Speaker 2: some states, you might get a long list of conditions
Speaker 2: when you're put on probation that include things like you
Speaker 2: can't be in the presence of alcohol. Well, that means
Speaker 2: that you can't go to mom's house on Christmas Eve
Speaker 2: if she's going to have a glass of wine without
Speaker 2: being in violation of your probation. Right Or you might
Speaker 2: see a condition that says you can't open a bank
Speaker 2: account or take out a loan, So how are you
Speaker 2: going to get that car to get you back and
Speaker 2: forth to work. So we work to make sure that
Speaker 2: the conditions that people do have on them while they're
Speaker 2: on probation or parole are actually ones that are in
Speaker 2: the interest of public safety and ones that make it
Speaker 2: manageable and don't just create a trip wire for people
Speaker 2: to go back to prisons in jails.
Speaker 1: Partally I'm struck with is that we've inherited a system
Speaker 1: that grew up randomly in all fifty s in the
Speaker 1: federal government, and which was a very control oriented system
Speaker 1: rather than a success oriented system. It put lots of
Speaker 1: power with the parole officer in a way which could
Speaker 1: be abused, and it put a lot of things that
Speaker 1: in abstract makes sense until you get into the real world,
Speaker 1: and in the real world they're nuts. Talk just from
Speaker 1: it about the gap between the possibilities of a really
Speaker 1: effective system and how in many states it's still mired
Speaker 1: in thirty and forty year old attitudes that actually make
Speaker 1: it more likely people will go back to jail.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it goes all the way back
Speaker 2: to the beginning of probation and parole. In fact, back
Speaker 2: in the eighteen hundreds, there was a man who convinced
Speaker 2: one judge instead of incarcerating someone, to let him take
Speaker 2: them under his wing and let them work with him,
Speaker 2: and that he was going to guide them. I think
Speaker 2: they had a bit of an alcohol problem. He was
Speaker 2: going to help them turn their life around. And that
Speaker 2: was really the foundation for probation and parrole. It's supposed
Speaker 2: to help people get the resources and get the mentorship
Speaker 2: that they need. It wasn't until the seventies when it
Speaker 2: took a turn and became more of a corrections model itself.
Speaker 2: And that was for a myriad of reasons, but one
Speaker 2: being that probation officers themselves wanted to be classified as
Speaker 2: law enforcement and that would mean better benefits and more pay.
Speaker 2: But that also meant a real change in the culture,
Speaker 2: a real shift in the culture of probation and parole officers.
Speaker 2: So you started having more people from law enforcement and
Speaker 2: fewer people with counseling backgrounds who had initially been called
Speaker 2: to the work because they wanted to help counsel people
Speaker 2: and mentor them into their new life. So even the
Speaker 2: word supervision, right, no adult wants to be supervised, they
Speaker 2: want to be supported. So it sets people up for
Speaker 2: this situation where there's so many people who are on probation.
Speaker 2: The caseload numbers are absolutely insane. When we talk to
Speaker 2: probation and parole officers, that's often the first thing they
Speaker 2: say to us is I wish I didn't have this
Speaker 2: many cases on my caseload because then I could actually
Speaker 2: focus on the individuals who need help, or then I
Speaker 2: could take the time to help somebody find housing or
Speaker 2: help somebody find a job, as opposed to just violating
Speaker 2: them when they haven't magically been able to find it
Speaker 2: on their own. So it's really important that we change
Speaker 2: the culture of probation. And there's some good organizations out
Speaker 2: there that are working on this. I know the American
Speaker 2: Probation and Parole Association where I've spoken a few times.
Speaker 2: They're doing a lot of work with the probation officers
Speaker 2: and parole officers to make sure that they have the
Speaker 2: resources they need. But you also need the legislative changes, right,
Speaker 2: and that's where reform steps in because we're able to
Speaker 2: work and decrease some of those caseloads by creating these incentives,
Speaker 2: by creating early termination programs, and that way you see
Speaker 2: the caseloads shrink and people can focus a little bit
Speaker 2: more on those individuals and get them the help that
Speaker 2: they need. But there's still a lot of work to
Speaker 2: do on the culture. And I think you nail it
Speaker 2: right on the head when you say, you know, these
Speaker 2: are antiquated attitudes that they've got. I'm hoping that with
Speaker 2: some of the technology improvements that we're able to see
Speaker 2: a more rapid shift in the culture.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: What if you can give everybody who's on probation a
Speaker 2: tablet that helps them with an AI assistant who can
Speaker 2: help provide mental health support, can help them find a job,
Speaker 2: can do a skills assessment, right, figure out what their
Speaker 2: next steps should be to get into a real career,
Speaker 2: not just a job, but a real career with some
Speaker 2: actual economic mobility, or even just helping them find housings.
Speaker 2: So I'm hopeful that technology can rapidly advance the shift
Speaker 2: in culture and reprayori tize helping people who are on
Speaker 2: probation and parole succeed versus just trapping them and sending
Speaker 2: them back.
Speaker 1: One of the experiments we should be trying is to
Speaker 1: just use smartphones so that when somebody on parole has
Speaker 1: to check in, they don't have to leave their job,
Speaker 1: lose a half day's pay, et cetera, to go to
Speaker 1: a physical point if there was a way. And again,
Speaker 1: with a GPS feet you're on the phone, you can
Speaker 1: know where the person's calling from, so if they're actually
Speaker 1: calling from work, they shall be able to check in
Speaker 1: at minimum disruption, which maximizes they're keeping the job and
Speaker 1: also minimize the time it takes for the parle.
Speaker 2: Officer right one hundred percent, And think how stigmatizing that
Speaker 2: is for somebody who's on probation or parole. Here they
Speaker 2: are at their job. Let's say they're out working in
Speaker 2: an open bay in an office or working in a factory,
Speaker 2: whatever it might be. Currently probation officer would show up
Speaker 2: there ask the employer, you know, where is so and
Speaker 2: so have to walk over there physically check right. That
Speaker 2: isn't a good system, and it probably discourages the employer
Speaker 2: from hiring somebody who's on probation and parole in the future.
Speaker 2: And then you've also got, you know, on the flip side,
Speaker 2: if they don't go to their place of employment. A
Speaker 2: lot of the time, people on probation and parole are
Speaker 2: required to go down to the office, and that can
Speaker 2: be hours and hours out of their workday that they're
Speaker 2: having to sit on a bus, go sit in a
Speaker 2: crowded office, sometimes without any notice because of random drug testing,
Speaker 2: and then make it back to work. And by then
Speaker 2: the employer is put in a hard position, especially small
Speaker 2: business owners. We hear from them a lot that they
Speaker 2: can't hire somebody who's on probation and parole because they
Speaker 2: can't afford to have an employee who has no notice
Speaker 2: have to leave the job and not come back for hours.
Speaker 1: One of your great successes was President Trump embracing the
Speaker 1: whole concept of the First Step Act, and really I
Speaker 1: think having his eyes opened to being a very positive
Speaker 1: force in this area. Can you talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about the first step practice up, but also how you
Speaker 1: managed to get Trump to adopt what's really a remarkably
Speaker 1: reform oriented position.
Speaker 2: Well, first and foremost, I'll say it took a whole village.
Speaker 2: It took incredible coalition, yourself included, to get him to
Speaker 2: adopt this issue. But I think President Trump's leadership on
Speaker 2: this issue shattered the false choice between being tough on
Speaker 2: crime and or supporting sensible reforms that dramatically improve an
Speaker 2: outdated system. It's absolutely a model for conservative led criminal
Speaker 2: justice reform that actually enhances public safety. And you know,
Speaker 2: it wasn't just other people that were shocked. I think
Speaker 2: being a Democrat from the Bay Area, I was at
Speaker 2: that point mayor in a very blue city in the
Speaker 2: San Francisco Bay Area, Mill Valley. You know, I don't
Speaker 2: think that I ever anticipated working with President Trump. I'd
Speaker 2: done a bunch of work with you in the past
Speaker 2: few years prior to that, But when Jared Kushner called
Speaker 2: over to Van Jones and said, Hey, I have an
Speaker 2: issue that I think we might be able to work
Speaker 2: together on, I was shocked. And you know, I'll be honest,
Speaker 2: the left at the time was not very open to
Speaker 2: people within the Democratic Party working across the aisle with
Speaker 2: that administration. And I was very concerned what was going
Speaker 2: to happen for Van and even for myself if we
Speaker 2: went to the White House and worked with the Trump administration.
Speaker 2: And I remember I talked to Van about it. I
Speaker 2: approached him and I said, you know, do you really
Speaker 2: think this is a good idea? And he said something
Speaker 2: that stuck with me for a very long time, and
Speaker 2: he said, listen, Jessica. At the time, there were one
Speaker 2: hundred eighty thousand people in federal prison. He said, Jessica,
Speaker 2: there's one hundred and eighty thousand people that he's got
Speaker 2: in the palm of his hand. And I can't be
Speaker 2: worried about what people are going to say on Twitter,
Speaker 2: because my worst day on Twitter is better than anybody's
Speaker 2: best day in prison. And we need to make some
Speaker 2: changes if we can. And so we did, and we
Speaker 2: went to the White House, and you know, we worked
Speaker 2: with conservatives, and since then, many conservative governors, state legislators,
Speaker 2: lawmakers in the House and the Senate have kept the
Speaker 2: ball moving forwards. So it wasn't just the First Step Act,
Speaker 2: which by the way, has helped about seventy thousand Americans
Speaker 2: behind bars. It had a trickle down effect across the
Speaker 2: country where the next year after the First Step Act
Speaker 2: was passed, you saw about thirteen First Step Act bills
Speaker 2: introduced on the state level. You even saw on the
Speaker 2: local level leaders starting to look at how they could
Speaker 2: reduce the cost of jails in their communities and bring
Speaker 2: people home in ways of to what we had done
Speaker 2: in the First Step Act. And a lot of law
Speaker 2: enforcement leaders as well had joined us. So it's absolutely
Speaker 2: amazing what was able to happen, and it took a
Speaker 2: whole village, but it couldn't have happened without President Trump's leadership.
Speaker 1: You coined a great phrase at one point, you said,
Speaker 1: tough on crime can mean smart on solutions. Yes, I
Speaker 1: just think that is a fabulous explanation. And of course,
Speaker 1: the First Step Act reduced recidivism going back to jail
Speaker 1: to nine point seven percent compared to fifty to eighty percent,
Speaker 1: which means there are thousands and thousands of people who,
Speaker 1: because the system has been improved, are working, paying taxes,
Speaker 1: being citizens, being with their family who before the First
Speaker 1: Step Act probably would have ended up going back.
Speaker 2: To jail absolutely. And of that nine point five percent,
Speaker 2: about four percent of them are people who are being
Speaker 2: sent back just for technical violations. And that's where reform
Speaker 2: had kind of an ah. You know, We've done a
Speaker 2: lot of work on the local level, We've done a
Speaker 2: lot of work on the state level. We've even done
Speaker 2: international work. In fact, last year we passed the first
Speaker 2: resolution in the United Nations Human Rights Council on reentry
Speaker 2: and creating social reintegration guidelines for member States. But we
Speaker 2: hadn't done anything on the federal level yet. And it
Speaker 2: wasn't until I saw that report on the First Step
Speaker 2: Act to come out and I realized what a large percentage.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's almost half of the people being returned.
Speaker 2: We're just being returned for technical violations. So we saw
Speaker 2: a real opportunity to continue building on the great success
Speaker 2: of the First Step Act and these smart on crime
Speaker 2: reforms that we'd been doing at the state level, and
Speaker 2: update our severely outdated federal supervision system with the Safer
Speaker 2: Supervision Act, which is legislation that we have worked on
Speaker 2: for the last three years on the federal level that's
Speaker 2: about to be reintroduced into Congress that would bring some
Speaker 2: of those same evidence based, data driven reforms to the
Speaker 2: federal supervision system.
Speaker 1: Describe the whole notion of the Supervision Act and what
Speaker 1: it will do, and again it's in the bipartisan tradition
Speaker 1: of bringing people together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, Congress had originally established the federal supervision system
Speaker 2: to help high risk people safely return to their communities
Speaker 2: after serving long terms in federal prison. Crucially, supervision was
Speaker 2: meant to only be applied where it was absolutely deemed
Speaker 2: necessary for public safety. But somewhere along the way, that
Speaker 2: distinction was lost, and federal supervision is now being applied
Speaker 2: in almost every single case, which means they've expanded the
Speaker 2: system to a completely unmanageable and by the way, very
Speaker 2: expensive size. So the probation officers that we have spoken
Speaker 2: to are just absolutely overwhelmed, and in some jurisdictions they
Speaker 2: manage caseloads that are more than double what's recommended by
Speaker 2: the best practices, meaning they're not able to actually spend
Speaker 2: time with the individuals they're supposed to be supervising. And
Speaker 2: so that's why we've seen law enforcement leaders join this bill.
Speaker 2: Last year, we introduced the bipartisans say for Supervision Act,
Speaker 2: which builds on the proven principles and evidence based public
Speaker 2: safety policies like earn Time Credit that are in for
Speaker 2: a Step Act and that have been such an incredible success.
Speaker 2: So we're hopeful to get it introduced again here soon.
Speaker 2: Like I said, it's got huge support on both sides
Speaker 2: of the aisle, and huge support across the country because
Speaker 2: you've got people coming home all across the country that
Speaker 2: are facing these incredibly difficult circumstances that are being imposed
Speaker 2: by the supervision that they're on, that are making re
Speaker 2: entry very difficult and ending up resulting in them being
Speaker 2: sent back to federal prisons.
Speaker 1: Part of what you've done to get people more involved
Speaker 1: is you've launched an initiative called You Belong. What does
Speaker 1: that mean.
Speaker 2: Yes, so we've been working with organizations all across the country.
Speaker 2: You Belong as another piece of that. So oftentimes you'll
Speaker 2: see that people who are on supervision don't feel like
Speaker 2: they have a voice in their community. They feel ostracized,
Speaker 2: they feel stigmatized, they feel like they're left out of
Speaker 2: their community because they're dealing with so many different circumstances
Speaker 2: that the average person isn't. In fact, they're dealing with
Speaker 2: so many more circumstances than a person who has a
Speaker 2: criminal record that is not on supervision. Right, Like, they
Speaker 2: can't leave their jurisdictions. So let's say you live in
Speaker 2: New Jersey and there's no jobs in the town you
Speaker 2: live in, but you're able to find employment in New York.
Speaker 2: You can't leave your jurisdiction without specific permission, and sometimes
Speaker 2: you can't get that permission because it becomes harder to
Speaker 2: supervise you. So you're locked out of an employment opportunity.
Speaker 2: Or let's say you find a job, but it's working
Speaker 2: the third shift. How do you make that work when
Speaker 2: you have a curfew of your probation of six pm? Right,
Speaker 2: So there's so many different circumstances that people are dealing
Speaker 2: with because of their supervision that the average person is
Speaker 2: completely unaware of. And we wanted to send a message
Speaker 2: to people who are on supervision. And again, this is
Speaker 2: about three point six million people across the country, it
Speaker 2: was about four point four when we got started. We
Speaker 2: wanted to send a message to them that they do
Speaker 2: belong in the community, They should be a part of
Speaker 2: the community. They do belong in jobs, they belong in housing,
Speaker 2: they belong in their families, and we're going to work
Speaker 2: alongside them to make sure that they have the opportunity
Speaker 2: to do so.
Speaker 1: How can people get involved with reform and with the
Speaker 1: You Belong initiative?
Speaker 2: Yes, they can go to the Reform Alliance website Reform
Speaker 2: Alliance dot com. They can also follow us on social
Speaker 2: media on Instagram or Facebook, they can find the Reform Alliance.
Speaker 2: We are constantly asking our members to take an action
Speaker 2: to be a part of the movement. Especially with this
Speaker 2: federal bill. We're going to need everybody across the country
Speaker 2: to join us in this fight and to make sure
Speaker 2: that their members, their representatives understand that they care about
Speaker 2: this issue and they don't want to see resources being
Speaker 2: spent on locking people up just for being late for
Speaker 2: a meeting, or not being able to pay a fine,
Speaker 2: or not being able to find a job right away,
Speaker 2: but that instead they want to see these resources being
Speaker 2: spent supporting people and getting them back on their feet
Speaker 2: and giving them meaningful opportunities to show that they are
Speaker 2: ready to come off of supervision and be in society completely.
Speaker 2: So we are asking everybody to sign up, become a reformer,
Speaker 2: join our List Reform Alliance dot Com.
Speaker 1: Part of all this is involved in Second Chance Month.
Speaker 1: What does second Chance Month mean?
Speaker 2: So April is the National Second Chance Month. It is
Speaker 2: an opportunity for people to reflect and think about our
Speaker 2: values as a country, and we do believe that people
Speaker 2: deserve second chances. In fact, one of my favorite moments
Speaker 2: at the White House last administration, President Trump held a
Speaker 2: prison reform summit and he brought tons of people to
Speaker 2: this prison reform summit, and I showed up. There were
Speaker 2: about seventy men and women who had been incarcerated. Now,
Speaker 2: of course you had no idea who they were. At
Speaker 2: one point, one of the speakers did stand up, and
Speaker 2: I remember seeing some of the cabinet members who were there.
Speaker 2: Jeff Sessions was there at the time. Their jaws dropped
Speaker 2: because here's this little red headed grandmother, Sue l and Allen,
Speaker 2: who had been incarcerated, who had been speaking to standing
Speaker 2: up saying she had a criminal record. And Toabeka sam
Speaker 2: an African American woman and faith leader from New York
Speaker 2: standing up, and it was just shocking how many people
Speaker 2: who had been walking around the room had actually been
Speaker 2: really impacted. And I remember President Trump standing up and
Speaker 2: talking about second chances, and this was the April Second
Speaker 2: Chance Prison Reform Summit, and I remember him saying, you know,
Speaker 2: it's not just about a second chance. Sometimes it's a
Speaker 2: third or fourth chance. But it's about giving people an
Speaker 2: opportunity to show that they have rehabilitated themselves and that
Speaker 2: they can be tax paying, successful members of society, and
Speaker 2: that this is a core value to America, really making
Speaker 2: sure that everybody can achieve the American dream.
Speaker 1: You are accomplishing remarkable things both at the federal level
Speaker 1: and at the state level, and in helping educate all
Speaker 1: of us. I'm very honored to know you. I think
Speaker 1: you are a genuine heroin for the intensity and the
Speaker 1: effort you put into saving people, literally saving lives, and
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for joining me. Our listeners
Speaker 1: can find out more about the work you're doing at
Speaker 1: a Reform Alliance by visiting your website at Reform Alliance
Speaker 1: dot com. And I encourage people to go to your
Speaker 1: site and watch the video about Adam Clausen and how
Speaker 1: he's rebuilt his life. Because our goal here is to
Speaker 1: get most people, unless they're extraordinarily violent and dangerous. We
Speaker 1: want people who happen to have done something wrong, to
Speaker 1: be reintegrated into society, to lead complete lives, and to
Speaker 1: have a remarkable future at you, Jessica, are a key
Speaker 1: part of that process.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much. It's an honor to be
Speaker 2: on and it's been an incredible honor to learn from
Speaker 2: you over the last ten years. And you know, I'm
Speaker 2: just so grateful for the opportunity and for all the
Speaker 2: work that you've done.
Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Jessica Jackson. You can get
Speaker 1: a link to Reform Alliance on our show page at
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Speaker 1: researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was
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Speaker 1: Slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld.