1 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: In this episode of news World. Reform Alliance is a 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: coalition of philanthropists, activists, bipartists and experts, advocates and policymakers 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 1: working on common sense solutions to transform the criminal justice 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: system and probation and parole with the goal of dramatically 5 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: reducing the number of people trapped in the criminal justice 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: system and significantly increasing the number of people moving from 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: supervision to work and well being. I'm really please welcome 8 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: my guest and good friend, Jessica Jackson. She is a 9 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: remarkable pioneer and has made a huge difference in the 10 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: lives of people. She's joining today to discuss the U 11 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: Belong program they just launched for Second Chance Month. Jessica, 12 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: welcome and thank you for joining us again on newch World. 13 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me on. 14 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: You know, I think people be very anteresoed. Can you 15 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: share a bit of your own personal journey, What drew 16 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: you to the work of criminal justice reform and how 17 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: did that experience shape your mission at Reform Alliance. 18 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. I first became invested in this work about twenty 19 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 2: years ago when my former husband and father of my 20 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 2: first child was incarcerated for a drug related offense. In Georgia. 21 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 2: That was a shock to me. I saw the failures 22 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 2: of the system up close, and I saw that he 23 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 2: never got the addiction treatment that he needed while he 24 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 2: was inside, and that he actually struggled to find work 25 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 2: when he was released, despite having been an electrician prior 26 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: to going into the prison and working the entire time 27 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 2: he was in the prison. He had a parole violation 28 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 2: at one point that was basically a paperwork mix up 29 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 2: by the sheriff's office that sent him back to jail 30 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 2: for almost two months and completely derailed all of the 31 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 2: progress that he had made. So, you know, at first, 32 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 2: when he went into prison, I thought, gosh, there's been 33 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 2: a terrible mistake. They must not realize that, you know, 34 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 2: they've sent this man who's a wonderful father and son 35 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,839 Speaker 2: and employer and not a danger at all to society 36 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 2: into the prison. But then I came there for a 37 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: visit and I looked around and I saw that there 38 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 2: were so many families just like mine that were in 39 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 2: the same position, and that millions of Americans actually had 40 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: a story similar to mine. Because there's more than one 41 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 2: hundred and thirteen million Americans that have had a family 42 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 2: member who are incarcerated and about seventy nine million Americans 43 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 2: who have a criminal record. 44 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 1: But meanwhile, before you go on, I just want to 45 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: make sure that our audience understands how truly remarkable you 46 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: are and why. From the very first time I met you, 47 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,839 Speaker 1: I just thought working with you was a great privilege. 48 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: You were a high school dropout with a two month 49 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: old daughter, and when your husband goes to jail, you 50 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: go to school, and you end up graduating both from 51 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: college and from law school. You're pretty remarkable. 52 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 2: Well, thank you. You know, I think I was blessed 53 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 2: in the fact that I didn't realize how tough the 54 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 2: journey would be, and frankly, it gave me a purpose. 55 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 2: I knew that I was in a position to do 56 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 2: something about the system, and that I had a duty 57 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 2: to do. So. 58 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: How did you find the internal strength raising a daughter, 59 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: going to school? All that must have seemed like a 60 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: real mountain to climb. 61 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. And I remember when he actually got sentenced. 62 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 2: We didn't know he would be sentenced that day. We 63 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: thought we were just going for, you know, hearing, and 64 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: he ended up taking a plea and being sentenced in 65 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 2: the same day. And I brought my daughter, and he 66 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 2: drove a big four to f two point fifty. At 67 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 2: the time, I couldn't drive it. I was a small 68 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 2: car girl. So he drove us to the courthouse in 69 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 2: Gwinnett County and Georgia, and I remember I was carrying 70 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: our two month old daughter. We go in and they 71 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 2: had the proceeding, and I really didn't understand what was happening. 72 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 2: All I knew is that suddenly the bailiff came up 73 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 2: next to him. I heard him say he was guilty, 74 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 2: and I heard the judge accept the plea and then 75 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 2: they said remanded to custody. And the bailiff came up 76 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 2: to him and he handed him his wallet and his 77 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 2: phone and his wedding ring and he just turned around 78 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 2: and blew me a kiss. And that was it. And 79 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 2: so now I'm standing there and I'm holding car keys 80 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 2: to a truck. I can't even drive home, and it 81 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 2: was just so overwhelming. I remember going to the bathroom 82 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 2: and I'm trying to nurse my daughter and I was 83 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 2: looking down at her and my tears were just falling 84 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 2: on her face. And I remember just thinking, oh my god, 85 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 2: what am I going to do? How am I going 86 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 2: to provide for us. And it took me a couple months, 87 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 2: and then I realized I wanted to go to school 88 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 2: and I wanted to get it done. And my mom 89 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 2: made kind of a checklist for me, like, you need 90 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 2: to go to college, you need to take the l set, 91 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: you need to go Aloft school, you need to take 92 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 2: the bar. And I just focused on putting one foot 93 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,239 Speaker 2: in front of the other and just getting it done. 94 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: It's a remarkable story, and I can personally attest that 95 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: you came out of it all as a remarkable person. 96 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: Part of your career has been a passion for the 97 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: Reform Alliance and the work it does. Talk about the 98 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: Reform Alliance, how it came together, what it's trying to do. 99 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm incredibly proud of all the work that 100 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 2: we've done here at Reform Alliance. You know, we focus 101 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 2: exclusively on making communities safer by improving our supervision system. 102 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 2: Probation and parole actually make up the largest segment of 103 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 2: our criminal justice system, twice the number of those who 104 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 2: are incarcerated, and yet nobody is really advocating for changes 105 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,239 Speaker 2: to that system. In fact, so much that it's become 106 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,679 Speaker 2: a major driver of incarceration, with about forty two percent 107 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 2: of our jails and prisons being filled with people who 108 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 2: committed a violation of probation or parole. And sometimes those 109 00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: aren't even new crimes. In fact, a lot of the 110 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 2: time is just a technical violation like the one that 111 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 2: they thought my ex husband had done with not reporting. 112 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: So ultimately this ends up compromising our public safety because 113 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 2: so many resources are going into this system which could 114 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 2: otherwise be spent on preventing crimes, solving crimes, treating the 115 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 2: really serious crimes, making sure they're supervising people who really 116 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 2: need it. So we set out at Reform Alliance to 117 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 2: bring change to the system, and of course it started 118 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 2: with one person. It started with artist Meek Mill, who 119 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 2: was a big rapper in Pennsylvania who had been convicted 120 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 2: of a crime when he was eighteen and had been 121 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 2: on probation for his entire adult life, about twelve years 122 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: at that point, and he had a judge who was 123 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 2: a real stickler. She looked for ways to send him 124 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 2: back into prison, and at one point he received a 125 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 2: technical violation because he had broken up a fight at 126 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 2: an airport and he had popped a wheelie on his 127 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 2: motorcycle in a music video, which apparently is not legal. 128 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 2: So she said, you know what, You're going back to prison, 129 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 2: and she sentenced him to two to four years in prison. 130 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 2: But luckily for meek Mill, he had some very powerful 131 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 2: friends and they pulled together and ran a campaign. I 132 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 2: was honored at the time to be a part of it, 133 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 2: and were able to actually get him out. They spent 134 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 2: about seven million dollars on getting him out right. And 135 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: the kicker there is that later the underlying crime that 136 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 2: he had been sentenced for and the reason he's on 137 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 2: probation in the first place. He was actually exonerated for. 138 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 2: So he was innocent and just placed on supervision for 139 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 2: this whole time. But when he came out, he did 140 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 2: something that I think surprised a lot of us, and 141 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 2: he said, listen, I could go on tour and keep 142 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 2: making music, and I will do that, but I also 143 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 2: feel like I need to do more and I need 144 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 2: to help the men and women that I left behind. 145 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 2: And so he pulled everybody together and we have the 146 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 2: most unlikely board, everybody from Bob Kraft to Michael Rubin 147 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 2: to jay Z Meek Mill. He pulled everybody together and 148 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: Reform Alliance was born. 149 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: That's an amazing story. How long have you been with 150 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: Reform Alliance? 151 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: So I like to say I was here pre Reform Alliance, 152 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 2: since I worked on the campaign to Free Meek, but 153 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 2: I've been here since its inception, which was January twenty third, 154 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. I started out as our Chief Advocacy Officer, 155 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: so overseeing all of the policy work, all of the 156 00:08:41,520 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 2: organizing work. And I was named CEO last year in August. 157 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: And you all have been both effective at the federal 158 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: level but also at the state level. And I want 159 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: to start at the state level. Now. I think passed 160 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: twenty bills in twelve different states, and you just passed 161 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: two major reforms in Virginia and Maryland. Can you give 162 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: us a flavor of what you're doing. 163 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 2: Yes, And I will say we also had another win 164 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 2: in Virginia just Friday night, So we've now passed twenty 165 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 2: one bills in twelve states. Very exciting. So we just 166 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 2: passed two major reforms in Virginia and Maryland, both of 167 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 2: which had strong bipartisan support, which you don't see on 168 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 2: a whole lot of issues these days. They also had 169 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: an incredible coalition, so people on both sides of the aisle, 170 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 2: business leaders, faith leaders, community leaders that came together along 171 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,079 Speaker 2: with the backing of law enforcement and said that they 172 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 2: felt strongly these changes needed to be made to the system. 173 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 2: There So, in terms of what our bills do, they 174 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: offer people who are on supervision, probation or parole a 175 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 2: way to earn their way off sooner by taking life 176 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 2: changing classes or working or seeking treatment. If they have 177 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 2: any mental health or substance abuse issues, they can earn 178 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 2: credits that help them get off of probation and parole sooner. 179 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 2: This is both in the interest of the individual but 180 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 2: also really in the interest of the community, because what 181 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 2: we've seen is when people are getting their education, when 182 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: they're working, when they're getting the mental health help that 183 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 2: they need, that they're actually able to turn their lives 184 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 2: around and are way more likely to be successful and 185 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 2: become employed, tax paying citizens than people who just come 186 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 2: out and don't have those kind of programs available or 187 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 2: aren't incentivized to do those programs. So it's really in 188 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 2: the interest of public safety, which I think is why 189 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 2: you saw such a broad support. We also work to 190 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 2: make sure that the conditions that are placed on people 191 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 2: actually bear a rational relationship to the crime that was committed. 192 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 2: For example, right now, if you were to shoplift in 193 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 2: some states, you might get a long list of conditions 194 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 2: when you're put on probation that include things like you 195 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 2: can't be in the presence of alcohol. Well, that means 196 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 2: that you can't go to mom's house on Christmas Eve 197 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 2: if she's going to have a glass of wine without 198 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 2: being in violation of your probation. Right Or you might 199 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 2: see a condition that says you can't open a bank 200 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 2: account or take out a loan, So how are you 201 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 2: going to get that car to get you back and 202 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 2: forth to work. So we work to make sure that 203 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 2: the conditions that people do have on them while they're 204 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 2: on probation or parole are actually ones that are in 205 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 2: the interest of public safety and ones that make it 206 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 2: manageable and don't just create a trip wire for people 207 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,239 Speaker 2: to go back to prisons in jails. 208 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: Partally I'm struck with is that we've inherited a system 209 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: that grew up randomly in all fifty s in the 210 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: federal government, and which was a very control oriented system 211 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 1: rather than a success oriented system. It put lots of 212 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,079 Speaker 1: power with the parole officer in a way which could 213 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: be abused, and it put a lot of things that 214 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: in abstract makes sense until you get into the real world, 215 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: and in the real world they're nuts. Talk just from 216 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 1: it about the gap between the possibilities of a really 217 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: effective system and how in many states it's still mired 218 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: in thirty and forty year old attitudes that actually make 219 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: it more likely people will go back to jail. 220 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it goes all the way back 221 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 2: to the beginning of probation and parole. In fact, back 222 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 2: in the eighteen hundreds, there was a man who convinced 223 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 2: one judge instead of incarcerating someone, to let him take 224 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 2: them under his wing and let them work with him, 225 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 2: and that he was going to guide them. I think 226 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 2: they had a bit of an alcohol problem. He was 227 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 2: going to help them turn their life around. And that 228 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 2: was really the foundation for probation and parrole. It's supposed 229 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 2: to help people get the resources and get the mentorship 230 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 2: that they need. It wasn't until the seventies when it 231 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 2: took a turn and became more of a corrections model itself. 232 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 2: And that was for a myriad of reasons, but one 233 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 2: being that probation officers themselves wanted to be classified as 234 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 2: law enforcement and that would mean better benefits and more pay. 235 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 2: But that also meant a real change in the culture, 236 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 2: a real shift in the culture of probation and parole officers. 237 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 2: So you started having more people from law enforcement and 238 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 2: fewer people with counseling backgrounds who had initially been called 239 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 2: to the work because they wanted to help counsel people 240 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 2: and mentor them into their new life. So even the 241 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 2: word supervision, right, no adult wants to be supervised, they 242 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 2: want to be supported. So it sets people up for 243 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 2: this situation where there's so many people who are on probation. 244 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 2: The caseload numbers are absolutely insane. When we talk to 245 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,719 Speaker 2: probation and parole officers, that's often the first thing they 246 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 2: say to us is I wish I didn't have this 247 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 2: many cases on my caseload because then I could actually 248 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 2: focus on the individuals who need help, or then I 249 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 2: could take the time to help somebody find housing or 250 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 2: help somebody find a job, as opposed to just violating 251 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 2: them when they haven't magically been able to find it 252 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 2: on their own. So it's really important that we change 253 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 2: the culture of probation. And there's some good organizations out 254 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 2: there that are working on this. I know the American 255 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 2: Probation and Parole Association where I've spoken a few times. 256 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 2: They're doing a lot of work with the probation officers 257 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 2: and parole officers to make sure that they have the 258 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 2: resources they need. But you also need the legislative changes, right, 259 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 2: and that's where reform steps in because we're able to 260 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 2: work and decrease some of those caseloads by creating these incentives, 261 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 2: by creating early termination programs, and that way you see 262 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 2: the caseloads shrink and people can focus a little bit 263 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 2: more on those individuals and get them the help that 264 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 2: they need. But there's still a lot of work to 265 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 2: do on the culture. And I think you nail it 266 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 2: right on the head when you say, you know, these 267 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 2: are antiquated attitudes that they've got. I'm hoping that with 268 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 2: some of the technology improvements that we're able to see 269 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 2: a more rapid shift in the culture. 270 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: Right. 271 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 2: What if you can give everybody who's on probation a 272 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 2: tablet that helps them with an AI assistant who can 273 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 2: help provide mental health support, can help them find a job, 274 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 2: can do a skills assessment, right, figure out what their 275 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 2: next steps should be to get into a real career, 276 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 2: not just a job, but a real career with some 277 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 2: actual economic mobility, or even just helping them find housings. 278 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 2: So I'm hopeful that technology can rapidly advance the shift 279 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 2: in culture and reprayori tize helping people who are on 280 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 2: probation and parole succeed versus just trapping them and sending 281 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 2: them back. 282 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: One of the experiments we should be trying is to 283 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: just use smartphones so that when somebody on parole has 284 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: to check in, they don't have to leave their job, 285 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: lose a half day's pay, et cetera, to go to 286 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: a physical point if there was a way. And again, 287 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: with a GPS feet you're on the phone, you can 288 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: know where the person's calling from, so if they're actually 289 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: calling from work, they shall be able to check in 290 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: at minimum disruption, which maximizes they're keeping the job and 291 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: also minimize the time it takes for the parle. 292 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 2: Officer right one hundred percent, And think how stigmatizing that 293 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 2: is for somebody who's on probation or parole. Here they 294 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 2: are at their job. Let's say they're out working in 295 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 2: an open bay in an office or working in a factory, 296 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 2: whatever it might be. Currently probation officer would show up 297 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 2: there ask the employer, you know, where is so and 298 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 2: so have to walk over there physically check right. That 299 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: isn't a good system, and it probably discourages the employer 300 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 2: from hiring somebody who's on probation and parole in the future. 301 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 2: And then you've also got, you know, on the flip side, 302 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 2: if they don't go to their place of employment. A 303 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 2: lot of the time, people on probation and parole are 304 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 2: required to go down to the office, and that can 305 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 2: be hours and hours out of their workday that they're 306 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 2: having to sit on a bus, go sit in a 307 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 2: crowded office, sometimes without any notice because of random drug testing, 308 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 2: and then make it back to work. And by then 309 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 2: the employer is put in a hard position, especially small 310 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 2: business owners. We hear from them a lot that they 311 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 2: can't hire somebody who's on probation and parole because they 312 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 2: can't afford to have an employee who has no notice 313 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 2: have to leave the job and not come back for hours. 314 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: One of your great successes was President Trump embracing the 315 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: whole concept of the First Step Act, and really I 316 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: think having his eyes opened to being a very positive 317 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 1: force in this area. Can you talk a little bit 318 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: about the first step practice up, but also how you 319 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: managed to get Trump to adopt what's really a remarkably 320 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 1: reform oriented position. 321 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 2: Well, first and foremost, I'll say it took a whole village. 322 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 2: It took incredible coalition, yourself included, to get him to 323 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 2: adopt this issue. But I think President Trump's leadership on 324 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 2: this issue shattered the false choice between being tough on 325 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 2: crime and or supporting sensible reforms that dramatically improve an 326 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 2: outdated system. It's absolutely a model for conservative led criminal 327 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 2: justice reform that actually enhances public safety. And you know, 328 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: it wasn't just other people that were shocked. I think 329 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 2: being a Democrat from the Bay Area, I was at 330 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 2: that point mayor in a very blue city in the 331 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 2: San Francisco Bay Area, Mill Valley. You know, I don't 332 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 2: think that I ever anticipated working with President Trump. I'd 333 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 2: done a bunch of work with you in the past 334 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 2: few years prior to that, But when Jared Kushner called 335 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 2: over to Van Jones and said, Hey, I have an 336 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 2: issue that I think we might be able to work 337 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 2: together on, I was shocked. And you know, I'll be honest, 338 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 2: the left at the time was not very open to 339 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 2: people within the Democratic Party working across the aisle with 340 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 2: that administration. And I was very concerned what was going 341 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 2: to happen for Van and even for myself if we 342 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 2: went to the White House and worked with the Trump administration. 343 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 2: And I remember I talked to Van about it. I 344 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 2: approached him and I said, you know, do you really 345 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 2: think this is a good idea? And he said something 346 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 2: that stuck with me for a very long time, and 347 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: he said, listen, Jessica. At the time, there were one 348 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 2: hundred eighty thousand people in federal prison. He said, Jessica, 349 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 2: there's one hundred and eighty thousand people that he's got 350 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 2: in the palm of his hand. And I can't be 351 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 2: worried about what people are going to say on Twitter, 352 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 2: because my worst day on Twitter is better than anybody's 353 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 2: best day in prison. And we need to make some 354 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,239 Speaker 2: changes if we can. And so we did, and we 355 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 2: went to the White House, and you know, we worked 356 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 2: with conservatives, and since then, many conservative governors, state legislators, 357 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 2: lawmakers in the House and the Senate have kept the 358 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 2: ball moving forwards. So it wasn't just the First Step Act, 359 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 2: which by the way, has helped about seventy thousand Americans 360 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,199 Speaker 2: behind bars. It had a trickle down effect across the 361 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 2: country where the next year after the First Step Act 362 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 2: was passed, you saw about thirteen First Step Act bills 363 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 2: introduced on the state level. You even saw on the 364 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 2: local level leaders starting to look at how they could 365 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 2: reduce the cost of jails in their communities and bring 366 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 2: people home in ways of to what we had done 367 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 2: in the First Step Act. And a lot of law 368 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 2: enforcement leaders as well had joined us. So it's absolutely 369 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 2: amazing what was able to happen, and it took a 370 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 2: whole village, but it couldn't have happened without President Trump's leadership. 371 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: You coined a great phrase at one point, you said, 372 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: tough on crime can mean smart on solutions. Yes, I 373 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: just think that is a fabulous explanation. And of course, 374 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: the First Step Act reduced recidivism going back to jail 375 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 1: to nine point seven percent compared to fifty to eighty percent, 376 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: which means there are thousands and thousands of people who, 377 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: because the system has been improved, are working, paying taxes, 378 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: being citizens, being with their family who before the First 379 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: Step Act probably would have ended up going back. 380 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 2: To jail absolutely. And of that nine point five percent, 381 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 2: about four percent of them are people who are being 382 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 2: sent back just for technical violations. And that's where reform 383 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 2: had kind of an ah. You know, We've done a 384 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 2: lot of work on the local level, We've done a 385 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 2: lot of work on the state level. We've even done 386 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 2: international work. In fact, last year we passed the first 387 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 2: resolution in the United Nations Human Rights Council on reentry 388 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 2: and creating social reintegration guidelines for member States. But we 389 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 2: hadn't done anything on the federal level yet. And it 390 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 2: wasn't until I saw that report on the First Step 391 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 2: Act to come out and I realized what a large percentage. 392 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 2: I mean, that's almost half of the people being returned. 393 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 2: We're just being returned for technical violations. So we saw 394 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 2: a real opportunity to continue building on the great success 395 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 2: of the First Step Act and these smart on crime 396 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 2: reforms that we'd been doing at the state level, and 397 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 2: update our severely outdated federal supervision system with the Safer 398 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 2: Supervision Act, which is legislation that we have worked on 399 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 2: for the last three years on the federal level that's 400 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 2: about to be reintroduced into Congress that would bring some 401 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 2: of those same evidence based, data driven reforms to the 402 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 2: federal supervision system. 403 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: Describe the whole notion of the Supervision Act and what 404 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: it will do, and again it's in the bipartisan tradition 405 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: of bringing people together. 406 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, Congress had originally established the federal supervision system 407 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 2: to help high risk people safely return to their communities 408 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 2: after serving long terms in federal prison. Crucially, supervision was 409 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 2: meant to only be applied where it was absolutely deemed 410 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,959 Speaker 2: necessary for public safety. But somewhere along the way, that 411 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 2: distinction was lost, and federal supervision is now being applied 412 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 2: in almost every single case, which means they've expanded the 413 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 2: system to a completely unmanageable and by the way, very 414 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,479 Speaker 2: expensive size. So the probation officers that we have spoken 415 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 2: to are just absolutely overwhelmed, and in some jurisdictions they 416 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 2: manage caseloads that are more than double what's recommended by 417 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 2: the best practices, meaning they're not able to actually spend 418 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 2: time with the individuals they're supposed to be supervising. And 419 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 2: so that's why we've seen law enforcement leaders join this bill. 420 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 2: Last year, we introduced the bipartisans say for Supervision Act, 421 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 2: which builds on the proven principles and evidence based public 422 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 2: safety policies like earn Time Credit that are in for 423 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 2: a Step Act and that have been such an incredible success. 424 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 2: So we're hopeful to get it introduced again here soon. 425 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 2: Like I said, it's got huge support on both sides 426 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 2: of the aisle, and huge support across the country because 427 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 2: you've got people coming home all across the country that 428 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 2: are facing these incredibly difficult circumstances that are being imposed 429 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 2: by the supervision that they're on, that are making re 430 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 2: entry very difficult and ending up resulting in them being 431 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 2: sent back to federal prisons. 432 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 1: Part of what you've done to get people more involved 433 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: is you've launched an initiative called You Belong. What does 434 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: that mean. 435 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 2: Yes, so we've been working with organizations all across the country. 436 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 2: You Belong as another piece of that. So oftentimes you'll 437 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 2: see that people who are on supervision don't feel like 438 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 2: they have a voice in their community. They feel ostracized, 439 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 2: they feel stigmatized, they feel like they're left out of 440 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 2: their community because they're dealing with so many different circumstances 441 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 2: that the average person isn't. In fact, they're dealing with 442 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 2: so many more circumstances than a person who has a 443 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,360 Speaker 2: criminal record that is not on supervision. Right, Like, they 444 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 2: can't leave their jurisdictions. So let's say you live in 445 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 2: New Jersey and there's no jobs in the town you 446 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 2: live in, but you're able to find employment in New York. 447 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,160 Speaker 2: You can't leave your jurisdiction without specific permission, and sometimes 448 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 2: you can't get that permission because it becomes harder to 449 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 2: supervise you. So you're locked out of an employment opportunity. 450 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 2: Or let's say you find a job, but it's working 451 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 2: the third shift. How do you make that work when 452 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 2: you have a curfew of your probation of six pm? Right, 453 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 2: So there's so many different circumstances that people are dealing 454 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 2: with because of their supervision that the average person is 455 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 2: completely unaware of. And we wanted to send a message 456 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 2: to people who are on supervision. And again, this is 457 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,959 Speaker 2: about three point six million people across the country, it 458 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 2: was about four point four when we got started. We 459 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 2: wanted to send a message to them that they do 460 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 2: belong in the community, They should be a part of 461 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 2: the community. They do belong in jobs, they belong in housing, 462 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 2: they belong in their families, and we're going to work 463 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 2: alongside them to make sure that they have the opportunity 464 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 2: to do so. 465 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 1: How can people get involved with reform and with the 466 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: You Belong initiative? 467 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 2: Yes, they can go to the Reform Alliance website Reform 468 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 2: Alliance dot com. They can also follow us on social 469 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 2: media on Instagram or Facebook, they can find the Reform Alliance. 470 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 2: We are constantly asking our members to take an action 471 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 2: to be a part of the movement. Especially with this 472 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 2: federal bill. We're going to need everybody across the country 473 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 2: to join us in this fight and to make sure 474 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 2: that their members, their representatives understand that they care about 475 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 2: this issue and they don't want to see resources being 476 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 2: spent on locking people up just for being late for 477 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 2: a meeting, or not being able to pay a fine, 478 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 2: or not being able to find a job right away, 479 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 2: but that instead they want to see these resources being 480 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 2: spent supporting people and getting them back on their feet 481 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 2: and giving them meaningful opportunities to show that they are 482 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 2: ready to come off of supervision and be in society completely. 483 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 2: So we are asking everybody to sign up, become a reformer, 484 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 2: join our List Reform Alliance dot Com. 485 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: Part of all this is involved in Second Chance Month. 486 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 1: What does second Chance Month mean? 487 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 2: So April is the National Second Chance Month. It is 488 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 2: an opportunity for people to reflect and think about our 489 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,199 Speaker 2: values as a country, and we do believe that people 490 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 2: deserve second chances. In fact, one of my favorite moments 491 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 2: at the White House last administration, President Trump held a 492 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 2: prison reform summit and he brought tons of people to 493 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 2: this prison reform summit, and I showed up. There were 494 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 2: about seventy men and women who had been incarcerated. Now, 495 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 2: of course you had no idea who they were. At 496 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 2: one point, one of the speakers did stand up, and 497 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 2: I remember seeing some of the cabinet members who were there. 498 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 2: Jeff Sessions was there at the time. Their jaws dropped 499 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 2: because here's this little red headed grandmother, Sue l and Allen, 500 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 2: who had been incarcerated, who had been speaking to standing 501 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 2: up saying she had a criminal record. And Toabeka sam 502 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 2: an African American woman and faith leader from New York 503 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 2: standing up, and it was just shocking how many people 504 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 2: who had been walking around the room had actually been 505 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 2: really impacted. And I remember President Trump standing up and 506 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 2: talking about second chances, and this was the April Second 507 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 2: Chance Prison Reform Summit, and I remember him saying, you know, 508 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 2: it's not just about a second chance. Sometimes it's a 509 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 2: third or fourth chance. But it's about giving people an 510 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 2: opportunity to show that they have rehabilitated themselves and that 511 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 2: they can be tax paying, successful members of society, and 512 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 2: that this is a core value to America, really making 513 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 2: sure that everybody can achieve the American dream. 514 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: You are accomplishing remarkable things both at the federal level 515 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: and at the state level, and in helping educate all 516 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: of us. I'm very honored to know you. I think 517 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: you are a genuine heroin for the intensity and the 518 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: effort you put into saving people, literally saving lives, and 519 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for joining me. Our listeners 520 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: can find out more about the work you're doing at 521 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: a Reform Alliance by visiting your website at Reform Alliance 522 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: dot com. And I encourage people to go to your 523 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: site and watch the video about Adam Clausen and how 524 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: he's rebuilt his life. Because our goal here is to 525 00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: get most people, unless they're extraordinarily violent and dangerous. We 526 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: want people who happen to have done something wrong, to 527 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: be reintegrated into society, to lead complete lives, and to 528 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: have a remarkable future at you, Jessica, are a key 529 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: part of that process. 530 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much. It's an honor to be 531 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 2: on and it's been an incredible honor to learn from 532 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 2: you over the last ten years. And you know, I'm 533 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 2: just so grateful for the opportunity and for all the 534 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 2: work that you've done. 535 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Jessica Jackson. You can get 536 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: a link to Reform Alliance on our show page at 537 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: Newtsworld dot com. News World is produced by gager Street 538 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnseie Sloan. Our 539 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 1: researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was 540 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at 541 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: Gaglishtree sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll 542 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with five 543 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: stars and give us a review so others can learn 544 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: what it's all about. Right now, listeners of Newtsworld consentive 545 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: for read free weekly columns at ggristhree sixty dot com. 546 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: Slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld.