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Speaker 2: Well, it is the doubling down of a relationship that's
Speaker 2: already existed for many years. We're talking about that between
Speaker 2: two very well known household tech giants in UH that
Speaker 2: have been in the news a lot, and we're talking
Speaker 2: about Apple and Google specifically.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this story by Bloomberg's Mark German an exclusive and
Speaker 3: it's among the most read stories on the Bloomberg today.
Speaker 3: It's certainly caught the attention to of investors, sending both
Speaker 3: stocks hire today and giving a lift to the overall
Speaker 3: equity trade today.
Speaker 2: All Right, so let's get to it for more and
Speaker 2: what's going on. Let's bring in Mark German on his story. Marks,
Speaker 2: Bloomberg News chief technology reporter, joining us from LA Along.
Speaker 2: Also with us is Bloomberg News Senior Executive editor for
Speaker 2: Global Technology, Tom Giles. He's here in studio Mark's story though,
Speaker 2: as we said, and exclusive among I think it's a
Speaker 2: top the most read mark. Let's start with you lay
Speaker 2: it out for us in terms of the news and
Speaker 2: what you are hearing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, where you're hearing that. Apple and Google are and
Speaker 4: talks for Apple to license Gemini. That's Google's top generative AI,
Speaker 4: a large language model for integration into the iPhone and
Speaker 4: iOS eighteen and the iPad later this year. Apple has
Speaker 4: its own homegrown AI, including some GENAI that will be
Speaker 4: based into the device. Those will be models that run
Speaker 4: on the phone themselves. But what a lot of consumers
Speaker 4: are clamoring for are like Gemini, Microsoft Copilot, Chat, GBT,
Speaker 4: the ability to type in a short prompt and get
Speaker 4: an essay, a letter, or an image or what not
Speaker 4: created for you that's very reliant on the cloud. It's
Speaker 4: a very expensive endeavor obviously that comes with a lot
Speaker 4: of challenges and scrutiny as well, and so Apple felt
Speaker 4: like going with a partner at least this year isn't
Speaker 4: its best interest. It has talked to open AI, and
Speaker 4: it has talked to Google. The open AI talks happened recently,
Speaker 4: but the Google talks are active, and it appears both
Speaker 4: Google and Apple are keen on getting something done by June.
Speaker 4: Obviously this could still fall apart, but this is what's
Speaker 4: happening right now, the two being in discussions.
Speaker 3: Hey, Mark, does it also tell us a story? Does
Speaker 3: it tell you a story about where Apple is when
Speaker 3: it comes to its progress on AI right now? Yeah,
Speaker 3: and that's the real question.
Speaker 4: It tells us that Apple has not made as much
Speaker 4: progress as it would need to on the generative AI
Speaker 4: and cloud based generative AI front specifically. I do think
Speaker 4: they have made a lot of progress on on device
Speaker 4: AI in day to day usability, but either it has
Speaker 4: not made progress or it doesn't feel like it needs
Speaker 4: to make progress on cloud based GENAI specifically based on
Speaker 4: short prompts I would imagine do come down to the
Speaker 4: fact that they need They know they need to get
Speaker 4: this out this year. They know Google's the best. Why
Speaker 4: not expand that search deal? Maybe make some money off
Speaker 4: of it too well, having far less liability than they
Speaker 4: would if they went in house.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do feel like the pressure is on all
Speaker 2: of the big tech names to kind of really move
Speaker 2: forward when it comes to AI. Tom Giles, come on
Speaker 2: in on this, because I feel like when you hear
Speaker 2: Apple and Google get together on anything I feel like
Speaker 2: exponentially the impact, and I think about regulators just being like, wait,
Speaker 2: what are you two doing now again.
Speaker 5: As we saw this story coming together, the wheels in
Speaker 5: my head started turning. Immediately. My thinking is DOJ and
Speaker 5: FTC are going to look at this, this agreement should
Speaker 5: it come together with great interest. As we all know,
Speaker 5: DOJ is already looking into that relationship between Apple and
Speaker 5: Google that gives Apple, that gives Google added prominence on
Speaker 5: the iPhone when.
Speaker 3: It comes to search right, when it comes to search right.
Speaker 5: But so if you see something that deepens the relationship
Speaker 5: between two of the most powerful companies in the world,
Speaker 5: you're gonna want to make sure that that's not something
Speaker 5: that's gonna thwart competition or in any way hurt the
Speaker 5: consumer somehow keep competitors from getting into this space. So
Speaker 5: there's lots of questions that they have that they're going
Speaker 5: to ask. And already the FTC is looking at the
Speaker 5: relationship when it comes to AI between Microsoft and open AI.
Speaker 5: So these kinds of things they're gonna.
Speaker 2: They're gonna be why Whiteboard, I'm assuming you guys had
Speaker 2: this massive We're.
Speaker 5: Gonna want to look at the fine at the details
Speaker 5: the fine print.
Speaker 3: So Mark, it's funny when you when you talk about
Speaker 3: Apple and Alphabet, you know they're certainly competitors to the
Speaker 3: extent that Alphabet has the Android operating system, which you
Speaker 3: know is the biggest operating system in competition with Apple's iOS.
Speaker 3: But at the same time they are partners, and Apple
Speaker 3: has had partnerships with once rivals in the past. I
Speaker 3: think back to this event in twenty fifteen, when I
Speaker 3: think it was an iPhone event or maybe an iPad event,
Speaker 3: where a Microsoft executive was on stage, and it was
Speaker 3: such a big deal that like a Microsoft executive was
Speaker 3: actually on stage at this event. If this partnership comes
Speaker 3: to fruition, is it that big of a deal or
Speaker 3: is it not that big of a deal because Apple
Speaker 3: and Google have had a partnership in the past.
Speaker 4: I certainly remember that iPad pro announcement that was in
Speaker 4: September twenty fifteen, and Microsoft at the time, under their
Speaker 4: new CEO, Sat Nadela, at the time, their goal was
Speaker 4: to get their software and services everywhere. Apple's goal at
Speaker 4: the time was to make the iPad more of an
Speaker 4: office device, and so there was some mutual benefit there
Speaker 4: getting office on the iPad would be good for both parties.
Speaker 4: In this case, getting Gemini built into the iPhone would also.
Speaker 6: Be good for both parties.
Speaker 4: Apple would be able to push new AI features that
Speaker 4: everyone's claiming for to its two billion users, and Gemini
Speaker 4: would be gaining many more users and a stronghold on
Speaker 4: one of the most popular devices of our lifetimes. Right,
Speaker 4: and I want one more thing I want to add.
Speaker 4: Tom's point is excellent about the FTC and the DOJ.
Speaker 4: Our thinking on this is that in order to combat
Speaker 4: those concerns, Apple probably will have to have an API
Speaker 4: or some sort of sort or feature for other generative
Speaker 4: AI providers, maybe Open AI, maybe Anthropic, maybe someone else,
Speaker 4: to be able to integrate themselves into iOS as an
Speaker 4: alternative and better yeat. Apple probably would have to let
Speaker 4: users choose when you boot up the phone for the
Speaker 4: first time, who you want your generative AI provider to be,
Speaker 4: or as Tom said, the DOJ and FTC are going
Speaker 4: to be smelling around pretty quickly.
Speaker 2: I also do wonder about Gemini, Apple, Google, who gets
Speaker 2: I mean, who benefits more? You just said mark Gemini
Speaker 2: into the iPhone. It's good for both parties. Did one
Speaker 2: of them need to do this more than the other.
Speaker 2: Was the pressure on Apple?
Speaker 6: You in?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I would say the easy answer is
Speaker 4: the pressure is more so on Apple, But I think
Speaker 4: there's pressure on both companies, right Google. You know, Search
Speaker 4: obviously is down. Google is looking for, you know, new
Speaker 4: areas of growth and getting its next big thing on
Speaker 4: the world's biggest or second biggest platform. You know, it's
Speaker 4: a big deal for them. They're already owning their own
Speaker 4: in house platform. They'll own number one, and now they
Speaker 4: could own number two on AI as well. So I
Speaker 4: think the pressure is probably equal on both, maybe more
Speaker 4: so on Google, because I think if Apple didn't do
Speaker 4: anything this year on the A front, if they didn't
Speaker 4: do this, it would be a bad look. We'd certainly
Speaker 4: criticize them heavily for it. But would their revenue drop significantly?
Speaker 4: Would people stop buying iPhones? Probably not so. Certainly, maybe
Speaker 4: the pressure is more on Google, but certainly on both.
Speaker 5: From the investor point of view, you have to look
Speaker 5: at the perception that there are some players that are
Speaker 5: far further ahead when it comes to generative AI. A
Speaker 5: lot of people are giving a lot of props to
Speaker 5: Sachi Nadella and Microsoft for getting in on that relationship
Speaker 5: with open Ai at an early stage, making a big
Speaker 5: invation and being seen as leaders. There's a lot of
Speaker 5: criticism about Google on the other hand, as being something
Speaker 5: of a laggorty. They should have been way ahead of
Speaker 5: the game when it comes to AI. They've got deep mind,
Speaker 5: they had their own AI team at work. Sometimes those
Speaker 5: two teams worked at loggerheads with each other. They're getting
Speaker 5: that better, but they are seen as being behind Microsoft
Speaker 5: and its relationship with open Ai. You see Meta coming
Speaker 5: from out of left field with its lms. It's open
Speaker 5: sourcing them. There's a lot of momentum behind that, and
Speaker 5: Zuck is putting a big push behind that, and Apple
Speaker 5: of those big players. You really would like to see
Speaker 5: Apple being in that conversation. It's not in those conversations.
Speaker 5: It's not being mentioned in the same breath Microsoft, Open Ai,
Speaker 5: and even Google.
Speaker 2: It does feel like today's news has kind of changed that, right, Like,
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, the conversation maybe all right, I
Speaker 2: don't know that Apple all of a sudden, we're looking
Speaker 2: at differently a little bit.
Speaker 5: Potent that it has. There's a strong relationship with Google
Speaker 5: and it's going to capitalize on that and weave more
Speaker 5: of those open those AI features into the iPhone, providing
Speaker 5: a huge platform and a huge validation for what Google's
Speaker 5: been doing. Both have the potential to benefit tremendously from this.
Speaker 2: And Tim, I think about how much we've talked about
Speaker 2: Google Right and the criticism of Gemini, specifically in terms
Speaker 2: of some of the biased concerns.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so talk a little bit about that, mark, because
Speaker 3: it was just a couple of weeks ago that we
Speaker 3: were talking about all the challenges that Alphabet was facing
Speaker 3: in its AI ambitions and the CEO of the company
Speaker 3: had to essentially come out and say, well, you know,
Speaker 3: wait a second, this is not acceptable to us, and
Speaker 3: we're working on this to try to make it better.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know those I'm familiar. There was some controversy
Speaker 4: on Twitter and other social media about, you know, which
Speaker 4: races were portrayed in a historical context. This is my understanding.
Speaker 4: My understanding is that Google would provide the Gemini underlying
Speaker 4: model to Apple Right, which apparently did not have the issue.
Speaker 4: And this particular issue that Sun Darpa Chai, as you said,
Speaker 4: commented on and was at the center of the controversy,
Speaker 4: was related to the end user interface of the Google chatbot.
Speaker 4: So it's apparent that or apparently from what I'm told,
Speaker 4: this issue wouldn't have been replicated on the iPhone integration.
Speaker 2: You know, it's really interesting, Tim and I are both
Speaker 2: reading Caris Swisher's book that kind of takes you through
Speaker 2: so much in the technology world.
Speaker 7: Now.
Speaker 2: I know our own team has really just chronicled it
Speaker 2: so well over the last couple of decades or the
Speaker 2: last decade and a half. But I just think about how,
Speaker 2: you know, Tom, there are companies that were so much
Speaker 2: seemingly at the forefront that all of a sudden they weren't.
Speaker 2: And I do feel like you see this jocking among
Speaker 2: especially some of the establishment, of like we got to
Speaker 2: be on this because this is what we all think
Speaker 2: is the next wave.
Speaker 5: Well, I'm really struck by if you look at the
Speaker 5: share price of these companies. I mean, Apple rocketed ahead,
Speaker 5: became the world's most valuable company, but at Stock has
Speaker 5: kind of, you know, taken a turn for the worst.
Speaker 5: By contrast, I'm fascinated by you look the share price
Speaker 5: for Meta on the other end. A couple of years ago,
Speaker 5: Meta was on the ropes. We were talking about the
Speaker 5: existential threat posed by companies like TikTok. For example, we
Speaker 5: were talking about the things that Apple has done, sort
Speaker 5: of changing and making it harder for you to monetize
Speaker 5: advertising on the iPhone, and that really hurt Facebook. A
Speaker 5: couple of years ago, their stock was tanking as a
Speaker 5: result of all these things. Now look at how Meta's
Speaker 5: performing visa the Apple. The story has changed dramatically.
Speaker 3: Well, Tom, I'm curious about this idea of a land
Speaker 3: grab for AI going on right now, because each of
Speaker 3: these big megacap companies has their own identity, right Facebook,
Speaker 3: Meta owns social networking, Apple owns the iPhone and the
Speaker 3: mobile operating system, at least at the high end. Right,
Speaker 3: you have Alphabet that owns search. You have Microsoft, which
Speaker 3: would say that it owns productivity, but it plays in
Speaker 3: a lot of different areas. And now they're all going
Speaker 3: after what is essentially the same thing. Is there any
Speaker 3: sort of historical corollary for that? When you have so
Speaker 3: many companies that are known for their own thing kind
Speaker 3: of going after a new thing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and some of them do better than others. I
Speaker 5: mean the Internet, some of them, you know, built themselves
Speaker 5: on that, and others got left behind. Microsoft comes to mind,
Speaker 5: for example, when it comes to mobile telephony. You know,
Speaker 5: Apple sprinted ahead and really has owned that space. Google
Speaker 5: came in and with Android has done very very well.
Speaker 5: But if you look at dominance of the hardware and
Speaker 5: of the US market, Apple has kind of really run
Speaker 5: away with that. Microsoft went nowhere, So.
Speaker 2: Mark come back in on because I think about just
Speaker 2: the last is it week or so or two weeks
Speaker 2: or so? Apple give it up on the car after
Speaker 2: ten years and now this potential deal, it looks like
Speaker 2: with Google moving kind of all in pretty aggressively. It
Speaker 2: feels like with artificial intelligence, how are you kind of
Speaker 2: looking at Apple holistically right now on this news?
Speaker 4: The presence of new artificial intelligence software and capabilities doesn't
Speaker 4: change the underlying idea that Apple's a hardware company that
Speaker 4: makes seventy five percent to eighty percent of their annual
Speaker 4: revenue from hardware. So even if they fix this underlying
Speaker 4: problem with the lack of artificial intelligence, or even when
Speaker 4: they do as I should say, doesn't fix the underlying
Speaker 4: notion that they don't necessarily have a next generation hardware
Speaker 4: product to make money off of. Now here's where those
Speaker 4: two things come together. AI could enable all sorts of
Speaker 4: new hardware products in the future.
Speaker 3: What do you mean very.
Speaker 4: Core of that. Well, the car was an AI product
Speaker 4: right at self driving cars AI hardware, and now that
Speaker 4: AI hardware is no longer happening, So they're going to
Speaker 4: have to figure out some sort of new hardware category,
Speaker 4: whether it's based on AI, probably or not, to really
Speaker 4: move the needle revenue wise. The iPhone has completely plateaued,
Speaker 4: the iPad has been sinking, the Mac has plateaued. Some
Speaker 4: of their other products AirPods, Apple Watch, et cetera. Those
Speaker 4: are growing, right, but those are not meaningful contributors to
Speaker 4: the bottom line. The jury is still out on the
Speaker 4: Vision Pro. There are some other future categories that they're
Speaker 4: working on, so I'll mention now and some I won't,
Speaker 4: including AirPods with cameras, augmented reality glasses, but those don't
Speaker 4: really change the fundamental story. The question is what is
Speaker 4: the next big thing that could bring as much revenue
Speaker 4: and interest in as a car, And I think even
Speaker 4: for Apple right now, it's a little unclear.
Speaker 5: Hey, Mark In, I've got a question for you. In
Speaker 5: the last few seconds, can you talk about where and
Speaker 5: how Apple might use this for Vision pro and real.
Speaker 4: Quick Mark the yeah, that's yeah, yeah, sure, that's a
Speaker 4: great question. So there is some AI in the Vision Pro,
Speaker 4: but nothing like you've seen from what Meta has been
Speaker 4: able to do with their headsets integrating AI. There is
Speaker 4: a future I see where the vision Pro cameras could
Speaker 4: tap into this new generative AI that they're getting from
Speaker 4: Google and their in house to unite those two things.
Speaker 4: You could be walking around a grocery store. The artificial
Speaker 4: intelligence compare with those cameras tell you more about a
Speaker 4: food item you're looking at, or get a player at
Speaker 4: an NBA game. The AI combined with those cameras can
Speaker 4: tell you their stats or what their three point percentage is,
Speaker 4: depending on where they're standing behind there.
Speaker 8: All right, now, I totally kind of get it.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: I wish you guys could just stay for the next hour.
Speaker 2: We so appreciate it. Markerman, Bloomberg News Chief Technology reporter
Speaker 2: and of course, Bloomberg News Senior Executive editor for Global Technology,
Speaker 2: Tom Giles, joining us in studio.
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Speaker 2: Check out the Treasury trade, the yields along the curve.
Speaker 2: You got that two year note climbing to its highest
Speaker 2: level this year right now at four seventy three. But
Speaker 2: we were above that level and then you had FED
Speaker 2: swaps pricing and lesson of fifty percent odds of a
Speaker 2: June rate cut. So this is kind of your backdrop
Speaker 2: for the Wednesday FED meeting.
Speaker 3: Tim, I think, needless to say a bit of an
Speaker 3: adjustment over the last few months about rate expectations. Just
Speaker 3: forty eight hours from now, of course, we are going
Speaker 3: to have our second FED decision of twenty twenty four. Well,
Speaker 3: rates are expected to stay and change. We will get
Speaker 3: an update on the Fed's projections for rates this year,
Speaker 3: and of course also on the US economy.
Speaker 2: All right, it is, without a doubt one of our
Speaker 2: key focal points this week for investors with some thoughts
Speaker 2: on the rate environment in recent moves. Let's bring back
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Intelligence Chief US interest rates strategist Ira Jersey. Ira.
Speaker 2: They're out in our BI headquarters in Princeton, New Jersey. Ira,
Speaker 2: I feel like whiplash man. Listen hard to ignore what's
Speaker 2: going on in rates. I feel like over the last week,
Speaker 2: once again give us an idea. I mean, here we
Speaker 2: have what a tenure at four thirty three, at two
Speaker 2: year note at four to seventy three, and we're off
Speaker 2: kind of the highs of this session. It does feel
Speaker 2: like we are pushing up against some of the recent
Speaker 2: highs here. Does it mean that we could go even higher?
Speaker 2: How are you looking at the trade as of late?
Speaker 9: Yeah, So obviously the market's taken out a lot of
Speaker 9: the risk that the economy is going to slow down significantly,
Speaker 9: that the Federal Reserve is going to cut interest rates
Speaker 9: very aggressively later this year, and now it's taking a
Speaker 9: more modest approach. So right around four point seven percent
Speaker 9: is what we have on fair value for the Federal
Speaker 9: Reserve cutting three times this year and then four times
Speaker 9: next year. So we're basically right there, right, And so
Speaker 9: I think that we're we're now to get more direction
Speaker 9: on where the front end's going to going to go.
Speaker 9: It's probably going to come more from the economic data
Speaker 9: than it will from Wednesday's FED meeting. You know, I
Speaker 9: don't think Jay Powell is going to say much different
Speaker 9: than you've heard in recent Fed speak, So he's going
Speaker 9: to say, we're data dependent, We're going to move if
Speaker 9: we have to or when we can, and so you know,
Speaker 9: we'll be concentrating on some of the nerdy really details
Speaker 9: of some things as opposed to you know, when exactly
Speaker 9: the Fed's going to cut, whether it's June, July, maybe
Speaker 9: not till November.
Speaker 3: We like the nerdy stuff here, I right, So share
Speaker 3: it with me, Share it with us. What about when
Speaker 3: it comes to sort of as we get out of
Speaker 3: the curve a little bit on the ten year what's
Speaker 3: your focus on sort of expectations over the next few
Speaker 3: months and perhaps this year.
Speaker 9: So the ten year rate at this has been moving
Speaker 9: along with interest rate policy. So you look at what's
Speaker 9: been moving, it hasn't really been inflation expectations. Inflation expectations
Speaker 9: have been pinned basically between two point two and two
Speaker 9: point four percent according to the tips market. So most
Speaker 9: of the moves in treasuries recently has come from real yields.
Speaker 9: So basically, the idea that the Federal Reserve is going
Speaker 9: to switch policy, interest rates are going to remain volatile
Speaker 9: or not volatile in this case, more volatile. So because
Speaker 9: of those things you've seen, you've seen tips yields like
Speaker 9: ten year tips shields back up again toward two percent
Speaker 9: and pushing up toward there toward that area, and if
Speaker 9: the Federal Reserve does actually ultimately cut, you'd likely see
Speaker 9: real yields, so those tips yields come down a little bit,
Speaker 9: but we're not quite there yet, so I think further
Speaker 9: out the curve, it's all. It's still about Fed policy
Speaker 9: expectations and what they're doing. That nerdy stuff though that
Speaker 9: I was talking about where things like the Fed balance
Speaker 9: sheet policy, because they mentioned Jay Powell mentioned that that
Speaker 9: at this meeting they would start to talk about what
Speaker 9: they were going to do with their balance sheet, how
Speaker 9: balance sheet runoff was going to be maintained for longer,
Speaker 9: but at lower levels. So I suspect that after this
Speaker 9: meeting we won't get an answer or recommendation, but j.
Speaker 9: Powell might lay out two or three options of what
Speaker 9: the Federal Reserve is considering or discussing. And though that's
Speaker 9: kind of where the rates nerds like myself will wind
Speaker 9: up focusing a lot of our.
Speaker 2: Time, I do also keep thinking about with rates day
Speaker 2: and kind of higher for longer, it feels like are
Speaker 2: just at least the treasury curve kind of moving up here,
Speaker 2: that how much of the work is ultimately being done
Speaker 2: by treasury investors versus what the Fed has to do.
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's an interesting point because you know, even though
Speaker 9: the curves inverted more, there was a lot of talk
Speaker 9: when we were priced in for six interest rate cuts
Speaker 9: this year that the financial conditions were too easy, that
Speaker 9: the market was easing in front of the Federal Reserve.
Speaker 9: And the market's always to do that in the modern world, right,
Speaker 9: the Market's always going to anticipate what the Fed's going
Speaker 9: to do. So in this in this environment, I agree
Speaker 9: with the idea that, you know, financial conditions aren't as
Speaker 9: tight as they were, but you look at things like
Speaker 9: credit spreads, you look at lending conditions in general, and
Speaker 9: they haven't tightened that much over the last three months.
Speaker 9: So you're still in an environment where the Fed might
Speaker 9: be forced to maintain rates a little bit higher than
Speaker 9: some people expect until it's very clear and obvious that
Speaker 9: the economy is slowing to a very great degree. So
Speaker 9: you're talking about the unemployment rate, you know, broaching toward
Speaker 9: reaching toward five percent and trending much higher. You know,
Speaker 9: the last employment report wasn't terrible. Yes, unemployment went up
Speaker 9: a little bit, but a part of that which is
Speaker 9: people re entering.
Speaker 5: The workforce as well.
Speaker 9: So so you know, you have you have a still
Speaker 9: an okay economy and a federal reserve that that kind
Speaker 9: of might need to maintain these levels of rates. You know,
Speaker 9: potentially it's possible throughout the rest of the year. I
Speaker 9: don't think that that's the case. I think we will
Speaker 9: have a slowing in the economy with they'll cut at
Speaker 9: some point, but it's possible that maybe they only cut,
Speaker 9: you know, fifty basis points before the end.
Speaker 6: Of this year, so two.
Speaker 8: So two cuts, then.
Speaker 9: Well it's I mean, that's that's definitely that's a possibility.
Speaker 9: I think if they if the federal reserve were to
Speaker 9: cut in July, then they'd probably wind up cutting three times.
Speaker 9: But there's a you know, it's not clear what the
Speaker 9: near term path of the economy is going to be.
Speaker 9: You still have spending and retail sales that are reasonably
Speaker 9: reasonably robust. Yes, the retail sales number missed, but when
Speaker 9: you look at the the overall trend, it's still pretty decent.
Speaker 9: And then and the employment situation is good. So unless
Speaker 9: you wind up seeing inflation come down significantly or the
Speaker 9: unemployment rate pop up a lot the next two months,
Speaker 9: the Fed might not do anything until after the elections.
Speaker 9: That's not that's not that's not our base case for sure,
Speaker 9: but that is certainly a realistic possibility.
Speaker 3: One thing that we know the Fed will do on
Speaker 3: Wednesday's release an updated summary of economic projections, the so
Speaker 3: called dot plot.
Speaker 2: What's that?
Speaker 3: What's the smart thing to be looking for in the
Speaker 3: dot plot?
Speaker 7: IRA?
Speaker 3: And and you know what should we what's the what
Speaker 3: are the questions we should be asking ourselves when we're
Speaker 3: looking at it.
Speaker 9: Yes, So, so you know, the twenty twenty four dots
Speaker 9: will get a lot of attention, you know, people and
Speaker 9: you know, all the news media outlets and the like
Speaker 9: will wind up focusing on you know, will the Fed
Speaker 9: start cutting in June or July or you know, are
Speaker 9: there are there now you know, two cuts in the
Speaker 9: dots or three as the media and by the way,
Speaker 9: we think it'll remain at three, but there'll be some
Speaker 9: changes in some of the dots. The most important thing
Speaker 9: to me and to the long term for the treasury market,
Speaker 9: like ten year treasuries will be the twenty twenty five
Speaker 9: and twenty twenty six dots. So what does the Federal
Speaker 9: Reserve anticipate doing? And in terms of the terminal rate, right,
Speaker 9: So it's not so much you know, when they're going
Speaker 9: to cut here and there. Yes, that's that's a nice
Speaker 9: talking point, but it's does the Federal Reserve and anticipate
Speaker 9: cutting to three percent two and a half percent as
Speaker 9: the long run or is that going to change? Because
Speaker 9: maybe they think that the economy is going to be
Speaker 9: more robust than they think, even if it does slow down.
Speaker 9: So if that long term dot or the twenty twenty
Speaker 9: six dots are a little bit higher than they were
Speaker 9: in December, then I think that ten year yields, yeah,
Speaker 9: might move higher, might see four and a half percent.
Speaker 9: Yet again, if they were to move those dots.
Speaker 8: Up, just fascinating to kind of watch it in the moves.
Speaker 2: But we talked about volatility, and we've certainly seen a
Speaker 2: fair amount. But it is pretty remarkable of what we've
Speaker 2: seen in the last week.
Speaker 8: Hey, Ira, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Ira. Jersey chivus interest rates strategists at Bloomberg Intelligence, joining
Speaker 2: us from OURBI headquarters in Princeton, New Jersey, and just yeah,
Speaker 2: a quick recap ten year at four thirty three, you
Speaker 2: get a two year note with a yeald of four
Speaker 2: to seventy three. Stuck in the middle of there a
Speaker 2: five year note with the yield of four to thirty
Speaker 2: five here. But we'll see, you know, We're going to
Speaker 2: have a big fed special radio, TV, YouTube and Bloomberg originals.
Speaker 2: Our gang will be on it on Wednesday, so be
Speaker 2: interesting to see what we get in terms of those projections.
Speaker 3: It's not a five percent on the tenyure like in October.
Speaker 8: Not yet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, there it is tic Tick.
Speaker 8: This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live
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Speaker 2: This story was reported out by our own Mary Schlangenstein.
Speaker 2: She reported on a company it's called JSX, their Dallas
Speaker 2: based airline beloved by work travelers for offering convenience like
Speaker 2: a chartered plane at near business class prices, and instead
Speaker 2: of flying from packed hubs, it flies from sparse private hangars.
Speaker 2: In exchange for the amenities of a big airport, passengers
Speaker 2: get a lot of convenience. So in lieu of long
Speaker 2: tsa baggage screening lines, they get their bags swabbed for
Speaker 2: explosives and walk through a weapons detector. So it sounds
Speaker 2: like kind of move through kind of quickly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sort of like I think what people would argue.
Speaker 3: I mean, people have flown at love it. I've talked
Speaker 3: about they. I haven't flown up before, but people absolutely
Speaker 3: love it. The thing is JSX is only able to
Speaker 3: exist thanks to what some airline rivals say as an
Speaker 3: FA loophole. The founder and CEO counters that they're just
Speaker 3: annoyed that he's treading on their turf. We've got that
Speaker 3: founder with us, Alex Wilcox, founder and CEO of JSX,
Speaker 3: and Mary Schlangenstein Bloomberg News US airlines reporter. Mary recently,
Speaker 3: as Carol mentioned, wrote about the airline that's drawn this
Speaker 3: cult following. Both Mary and Alex join us from Dallas. Alex,
Speaker 3: We're gonna get to you in just a sac but
Speaker 3: before we do, I want Mary to kind of lay
Speaker 3: out her reporting here and explain this this loophole, because Mary,
Speaker 3: you've covered airlines for years, and rivals to JSX say
Speaker 3: that that there's this loophole. Talk to us a little
Speaker 3: bit about how this airline is able to exist.
Speaker 7: Well, basically, they put together two different types of certified
Speaker 7: air carriers and they were able to mix you know,
Speaker 7: a public charter with what becomes a private charter with
Speaker 7: two different types of airlines and airline certifications, and basically
Speaker 7: it lets them fly in aircraft up with more seats,
Speaker 7: with up to thirty seats, but they don't have to
Speaker 7: have the normal TSA's training or scanning. I'm sorry, they
Speaker 7: don't have to have pilots that are younger than sixty five.
Speaker 7: They can have pilots with less flight experience, and so
Speaker 7: taking advantage of those rules is what's raised some objections
Speaker 7: to JSX and other carriers like it, but it's also
Speaker 7: allowed them to operate.
Speaker 2: All right, Alex, come on in on this because regulators,
Speaker 2: you know, knew what you were doing.
Speaker 8: They signed off.
Speaker 2: What do you say to some of these these critics
Speaker 2: who talk about you maybe taking advantage of a loophole.
Speaker 10: Well, I mean, I guess one person's loophole is another
Speaker 10: person's law, and it is just law. It's forty to
Speaker 10: forty five year old established law. It's law that even
Speaker 10: American Airlines does you know, it operates under.
Speaker 6: And they're the biggest complainer of the group here.
Speaker 10: American Allies has a co chair with Contour, which is
Speaker 10: another part when thirty five air carrier that operates exactly
Speaker 10: under the exact same rules, with the exact same pilot
Speaker 10: experience requirements. They also sell tickets as American Airlines, but
Speaker 10: you actually wind up flying on Contour or Envoy or
Speaker 10: sky West or japan Airlines or Goal in Brazil which
Speaker 10: only has a two hundred fifty hour captain rating requirement.
Speaker 10: So this is the pot calling the kettle black. They
Speaker 10: just don't like us, and every argument they make against
Speaker 10: us is hypocritical when it comes to operations, and a
Speaker 10: lot of the people that are commenting about safety and
Speaker 10: security really are not qualified to do so. So we're
Speaker 10: very proud of our achievements, are near decade of flawless operations,
Speaker 10: and we see this purely as competitive competitive anxiety.
Speaker 2: Alex having said that your success, sometimes success brings a
Speaker 2: lot more eyeballs, including those of regulators. Are regulators coming
Speaker 2: out to you and saying, well, wait a minute, maybe
Speaker 2: we need to rethink this.
Speaker 10: No, I mean there's been because of the efforts of
Speaker 10: two Dallas based competitors and their trade unions. They've been
Speaker 10: begging the regulators to pay attention to us. They went
Speaker 10: to the DOT, they got turned away. They went to
Speaker 10: the FAA. Eighty thousand of our customers came out in
Speaker 10: strong defense of us, and we turned them away. They
Speaker 10: went to the US Congress in connection with the current
Speaker 10: FAA Reauthorization Act, and they tried to get us outlawed
Speaker 10: under the reauthorization and politicians from both sides of the
Speaker 10: aisle who recognize the value that we bring to their
Speaker 10: communities rallied to our support again. Now they're trying to TSA.
Speaker 10: They're trying to do with sub Rosa, with the TSA,
Speaker 10: with all kinds of baseless threats about security and terrorism
Speaker 10: and very irresponsible things that frankly, as an industry, we've
Speaker 10: always agreed we would never compete on safety and security matters,
Speaker 10: and so Southwest and excuse me, Southwest and American airlines
Speaker 10: have crossed that line.
Speaker 6: And that is a.
Speaker 10: Dangerous line across because it actually makes the entire industry
Speaker 10: less safe, because it makes people unwilling to talk about
Speaker 10: safety and security in an open way, which is the
Speaker 10: way we make the system better.
Speaker 8: Mary, I want to bring you in. You reported this out.
Speaker 2: You put Alex and JSX on our radar, So come
Speaker 2: on and ask Alex the question.
Speaker 7: Alex, I wanted to ask you if you've heard anything
Speaker 7: from the FAA, if you've gotten any feedback from them
Speaker 7: in terms of the timing of their decision, and then
Speaker 7: also if you've heard anything from the TSA, which was
Speaker 7: expected to issue some proposed recommendations fairly soon.
Speaker 6: Thanks Mary.
Speaker 10: Now, the FAA has not communicated they're going to be
Speaker 10: taking any action. They've got to read through those seventy
Speaker 10: thousand comments first and obviously respond to the concerns rates
Speaker 10: and those things, and then if they're going to make
Speaker 10: a rule change, they're going to have to go through
Speaker 10: the regular administrative process to do so, so it'll be
Speaker 10: an NPRM, a noticeable proposed that will making that actually
Speaker 10: addresses whatever rule they may or may not make. We
Speaker 10: believe that if they are arguing me new rules, they
Speaker 10: will actually be modeled upon how we operate today. We
Speaker 10: go well above and beyond many of the rules that
Speaker 10: do apply to us already. In some cases we go
Speaker 10: above and beyond the rules that apply to the major
Speaker 10: airlines as well. And with respect to the TSA, they
Speaker 10: will respond to real threats from real bad guys, and
Speaker 10: not from retired airline executives who are taking potshots.
Speaker 3: Hey, Alex, I should note that not all airlines have
Speaker 3: come out and been critical of your model. Investors in
Speaker 3: your company include United Airlines, Jet Blue, Qatar Airways, so
Speaker 3: there are some partners that you have with with major airlines.
Speaker 3: But I do want to know do you have a
Speaker 3: backup plan at this point if the FA were to
Speaker 3: come out and say, you know, the way that you're
Speaker 3: doing it is actually not something that we want to approve.
Speaker 3: What would be your backup plan?
Speaker 8: And for those who are actually listening to radio, you're smiling.
Speaker 6: Thanks. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 10: I think there's a couple of things. But first of all,
Speaker 10: thank you for pointing out it's not the industry as
Speaker 10: a whole, because I think a lot of the coverage
Speaker 10: has made it seem as though every year every major
Speaker 10: air carrier is against us, And you're absolutely right, Jet
Speaker 10: Blue and United Airlines and Guitar Aways are all investors,
Speaker 10: proud investors here at JSX. In fact, there's only two
Speaker 10: airlines that are really outspoken against us, and those are
Speaker 10: our Dallas neighbors here. American Airlines as an a long
Speaker 10: and notorious anti competitive history. They've been admonished very recently
Speaker 10: by a federal judge for what they tried to do
Speaker 10: in the Northeast as well. And Southwest Airlines, and they
Speaker 10: also put Legacy a Legacy Airlines out of business about
Speaker 10: twenty years ago here in Dallas. And Southwest Airlines is
Speaker 10: very territorial about love Field, and understandably so because they've
Speaker 10: got a ninety eight percent market share. So I think
Speaker 10: it really is not the industry. It's just American in Southwest,
Speaker 10: and it's provincial. It's related to Dallas territory. As far
Speaker 10: as a backup plan, look, I mean they're not just
Speaker 10: going to wake up one day and say, hey, you
Speaker 10: can't do this anymore.
Speaker 6: They couldn't do it to us anymore. They could it
Speaker 6: with the industry.
Speaker 10: They would they could say, hey, you've got to do
Speaker 10: something differently on a safety or security issue that we've
Speaker 10: identified and want you to address, and we'll just address
Speaker 10: whatever that issue is. But the real thing to know
Speaker 10: about this, and it's also left out of the coverage
Speaker 10: so far, is that there are only about four hundred
Speaker 10: and eighty airports that the entire US industry, major airline industry,
Speaker 10: you can fly to. So if you're going to fly
Speaker 10: any of the any major airline, there's only four hundred
Speaker 10: eighty airports across the United States. There are over two
Speaker 10: thousand other taxpayer funded airports that right now are available
Speaker 10: only to people that have access to private aviation. And
Speaker 10: so if you're going to outlaw public charter, you know,
Speaker 10: on it completely, then that means over two thousand airports
Speaker 10: in this country will be left with zero access to
Speaker 10: the average consumer. Anyone that cannot actually buy a ticket,
Speaker 10: I'm sorry, they cannot you know, rent a private jet
Speaker 10: or own a private jet on their own, is going
Speaker 10: to be left to those one underd and needy airports
Speaker 10: and the notoriously bad service that's offered at most of
Speaker 10: them by a lot of network carriers. So, you know,
Speaker 10: the backup plan is that we're just going to comply
Speaker 10: with whatever we're departed to comply with, as we always do.
Speaker 10: We're going to maintain our outstanding compliance and reputational history,
Speaker 10: and we're going to continue to focus on our customers.
Speaker 10: And if we focus on our customers day in and
Speaker 10: day out, and on their safety and their security and
Speaker 10: their pleasure, and we're going to be just fun.
Speaker 2: Alex just got about thirty seconds left chair, So I
Speaker 2: don't know in a year, two years. I mean, if
Speaker 2: everything goes as you guys are moving along right.
Speaker 8: Now, how much bigger can you become?
Speaker 2: And just real quickly only get about twenty seconds.
Speaker 10: Sure, I mean, as you covered, as Mary well covered,
Speaker 10: we expect to be at a billion dollar run rate
Speaker 10: within the next couple of years. And you know, anything
Speaker 10: is possible once we achieved that. Could be public markets,
Speaker 10: could be maybe we buy someone here in Dallas.
Speaker 8: Could you be bought by somebody.
Speaker 6: Too, or maybe we'll buy them.
Speaker 8: Could you be bought by someone though, I.
Speaker 10: Mean the company doesn't belong exclusively to me, so that'd
Speaker 10: be a question for our investors.
Speaker 2: All right, great stuff, as always, really appreciate it. Alex Wilcox,
Speaker 2: Chief executive Officer JSX joining us from Dallas, and of
Speaker 2: course our marriage. Schlangenstein, USA Airlines reporter at Bloomberg News,
Speaker 2: joining us from our bureau in Dallas.
Speaker 8: Mary, thank you, Marco.
Speaker 6: Journal.
Speaker 2: Now about you let me drive?
Speaker 6: Oh no, no, no.
Speaker 1: No, honey, please, I'll do the gravel. Wait, I want
Speaker 1: to try it.
Speaker 6: It's good question.
Speaker 1: This is the drive to the globe. Well it on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: Everybody, TikTok as I like to say, TikTok everybody? What
Speaker 2: do we have eighteen minutes left in today's trading session?
Speaker 3: We haven't talked about TikTok today?
Speaker 8: How that happened?
Speaker 2: Every week?
Speaker 1: Find the week? Is young?
Speaker 6: Tim?
Speaker 3: See what the Senate does?
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 8: Exactly.
Speaker 2: Our next guest has noted speaking of the markets, though,
Speaker 2: let's talk more broadly. Our next guest has noted this
Speaker 2: before that it's not higher for longer, but longer for longer.
Speaker 2: And we're about to see this, uh this week as
Speaker 2: we get ready for Wednesday's FED meeting. So perfect guest
Speaker 2: to talk about the Fed and a little bit more.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's welcome back Amanda Gotti, chief investment officer at
Speaker 3: the PNC Asset Management Group. She joins us once again
Speaker 3: from Philadelphia. Amanda, how are you one?
Speaker 11: Great? How are you guys doing?
Speaker 3: We're doing really. Well, okay, so we'll actually hate Monday.
Speaker 8: So I'm like, really here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, come on by the end of Monday.
Speaker 2: Everybody who hates Monday, raise your hand, like I mean, Amanda,
Speaker 2: how do you feel about Mondays?
Speaker 7: Well?
Speaker 11: I love Mondays when I get to spend it with you.
Speaker 11: But that's a big exception to the rule.
Speaker 3: So big exception, all right, Carol. I know you want
Speaker 3: to ask about it in video I do.
Speaker 8: I want to start there. We'll get into the fed
Speaker 8: in the moment.
Speaker 2: But you had some thoughts on that. I'm looking at
Speaker 2: the notes that you shared with our producer Paul Brennan.
Speaker 2: It's on your radar, it's on our radar, and video
Speaker 2: CEO jets And Wang expected to make some comments and
Speaker 2: a keynote today. Your commentary on this one, AI is
Speaker 2: much more than I believe. One company is what you said.
Speaker 2: I think, right, Yes, sorry, I'm looking at my notes here.
Speaker 2: More than one industry, let alone one company. So do
Speaker 2: you think like the obsession that investors have with Nvidia
Speaker 2: is a little crazy?
Speaker 11: Well, it's a great question to start on, and I
Speaker 11: would say yes, in and of the moment, it feels
Speaker 11: a little bit of a frenzy, right, it does feel
Speaker 11: a little bit crazy, particularly when you look at some
Speaker 11: of these forward pe valuations in Nvidia in particular, trading
Speaker 11: in a quasi monopoly valuation level. It's still very early days, right,
Speaker 11: we haven't seen the fundamentals outside of basically in Vidia
Speaker 11: accelerate to justify some of these lofty valuations. But we
Speaker 11: really do believe in the AI store and we think
Speaker 11: that this is really like the next innovation cycle, and
Speaker 11: so there's so much more to come from this. But
Speaker 11: I think in the moment, investors are really fixated on
Speaker 11: one stock, one industry, one company, and we need to
Speaker 11: think more broadly than that, I think in terms of
Speaker 11: this secular theme.
Speaker 3: Okay, so what is the best way to get exposure?
Speaker 8: Except can I just wait up in go ahead?
Speaker 2: Because I feel like, you know, we talked about this
Speaker 2: earlier with I think our bi analysts that and videos
Speaker 2: kind of in a legal its own no outperforming the
Speaker 2: semispace and for a good reason why Fundamentally, so, when
Speaker 2: do you, as someone who watches the market, say, okay, wait,
Speaker 2: this is a special company and there's a reason why
Speaker 2: its valuation might be higher than the rest of the sector.
Speaker 8: That it plays within Well.
Speaker 11: We're already saying that, Now, don't take this as run
Speaker 11: out and back up the truck and buy a lot
Speaker 11: of Nvidia here. But we've already been saying it does
Speaker 11: stand in a league of its own. And you know,
Speaker 11: the expectations from the street continue to be too low
Speaker 11: relative to the results that they're delivering. And so in
Speaker 11: an environment where there's a lot of FOMO, a lot
Speaker 11: of sentiment, a lot of hype around all things AI,
Speaker 11: Nvidia really does stand apart from the rest of the
Speaker 11: pack in terms of being able to justify these valuations.
Speaker 11: We got a long way to go, right, and I
Speaker 11: think you saw a little bit of kind of tripping
Speaker 11: up of the performance in Nvidia with other companies saying, well,
Speaker 11: we need a diversify away, we can't be beholden to Nvidia.
Speaker 11: But I think in Vidia is so far ahead of
Speaker 11: the pack that it's going to take a lot of
Speaker 11: time to diversify away from them. They have the edge
Speaker 11: in terms of technology, they have the edge in terms
Speaker 11: of supply, and so really, where else are you going
Speaker 11: to go in this environment? I think it's one to
Speaker 11: watch very closely.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, also to watch is what J Powell and
Speaker 3: code do starting tomorrow right now Wednesday? There, thank you,
Speaker 3: thank you. So what is the important question that you're
Speaker 3: going to be asking or what would you ask J
Speaker 3: Powell on Wednesday if you had an opportunity to chat
Speaker 3: with them.
Speaker 11: I think the question is really not if they should pivot,
Speaker 11: but when right's That's really the bottom line here. I think,
Speaker 11: as you teed up very nicely in the beginning, I've
Speaker 11: been on this mantra of longer for longer. Everything about
Speaker 11: this monetary policy cycle, from tightening to easing is going
Speaker 11: to take a lot longer than investors in the markets
Speaker 11: really want. I mean, I think the good news is
Speaker 11: that the business cycle has been extended, so soft landing
Speaker 11: camp right as opposed to hard landing, which is something
Speaker 11: we talked about a lot last year. But I think
Speaker 11: that first rate cut maybe a bit more elusive than
Speaker 11: what investors in certainly the market are thinking. And the
Speaker 11: good news bad news is the data is coming in
Speaker 11: stronger than expected. So we really do think time is
Speaker 11: on the fed side as it relates to that first
Speaker 11: rate cut. That's important in terms of the market expectation.
Speaker 2: So we have timing and elusive, is it elusive that
Speaker 2: first rate cut until twenty twenty five.
Speaker 11: I don't know if I would go quite so far
Speaker 11: as to say it's twenty twenty five, but it's certainly
Speaker 11: not March, and it certainly not May. Given what we're
Speaker 11: seeing in terms of economic data and then the choppiness
Speaker 11: around inflation data, I could kind of go either way
Speaker 11: about whether that first rate cut comes in June. I
Speaker 11: do think we will get a few cuts this year, right,
Speaker 11: We do have some cuts baked in, But I don't
Speaker 11: think the Fed needs to rush. They've been very vocal
Speaker 11: about not needing to rush, and I think the risk
Speaker 11: of moving too fast and cutting too soon is much
Speaker 11: bigger than waiting maybe a month or two. Mart doesn't
Speaker 11: believe that, though.
Speaker 8: That's true, right, kind of has its own mind.
Speaker 2: Well, we'll get an S and P five hundred that
Speaker 2: is up what about eight percent so far this year,
Speaker 2: and I was just pulling up the Nasdaq one hundred,
Speaker 2: and we're looking at a gate of about seven percent
Speaker 2: this year. We pulled back a little bit from the highs,
Speaker 2: and what felt like every day we were getting new
Speaker 2: records on these major equity averages. Having said that, when
Speaker 2: you say and the thought maybe that rate cuts are
Speaker 2: happening later this year. Do we get kind of a
Speaker 2: bifurcated market, so a market the first half versus the
Speaker 2: second half, or is a lot of it going to
Speaker 2: be priced in before we even get those rate cuts.
Speaker 11: I don't know that it's a tale of two halves.
Speaker 11: We've talked about that in the past, that that might
Speaker 11: be a dynamic in play. I think it's a very choppy,
Speaker 11: sort of range bound market environment until we start to
Speaker 11: get some clarity around FED policy. A lot of it
Speaker 11: is baked in. You know, we describe the market as
Speaker 11: being effectively priced to perfection. We pulled forward a lot
Speaker 11: of the benefits in terms of returns from a policy
Speaker 11: pivot coming out of the FED. I think the key
Speaker 11: is really not so much that first FED rate cut.
Speaker 11: It's really what happens to earnings growth. It's been very
Speaker 11: very narrow price performance and also very narrow earnings growth performance.
Speaker 11: We really need to see a broadening to get this
Speaker 11: market rally engaged again.
Speaker 3: How much more of a broadening because of the equal
Speaker 3: weight s and P five hundred did recently hit an
Speaker 3: all time high.
Speaker 11: Well, that's not saying much. I don't think wall caps.
Speaker 3: You want to see international?
Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, I want everybody on the bandwagon here, and
Speaker 11: I think it's been very challenging to get making.
Speaker 8: The value call.
Speaker 2: Are you making a value call right now? I mean
Speaker 2: the call that everybody's been calling forever.
Speaker 11: No, No, I'm definitely not saying that. I think it's
Speaker 11: actually a little bit early for value, deep value cyclicals
Speaker 11: and the small cap end of the spectrum. We just
Speaker 11: haven't seen signs of life from an earnings perspective in
Speaker 11: those areas yet. But we're going to start maybe getting
Speaker 11: more interested in those areas as the year progresses. It's
Speaker 11: just been very narrow leadership, even more narrow this year
Speaker 11: than last year, and I think that's really, you know,
Speaker 11: somewhat precarious and in terms of keeping this market rally
Speaker 11: going here, we need broader based participation.
Speaker 2: All Right, you made the Monday better. I'm just going
Speaker 2: to let you like, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2: So appreciate it, Amanda.
Speaker 8: If you well, have a great week.
Speaker 2: Amanda Gotti, chief investment officer at P ANDC Asset Management,
Speaker 2: joining us from Philadelphia, FIR.
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