WEBVTT - Rick Wilson & Peter S. Canellos

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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<v Speaker 1>where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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<v Speaker 1>today's best minds. And Gallup has found that China taps

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<v Speaker 1>America's approval rating for the first time ever, as our

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<v Speaker 1>leadership saw its approval rating drop eight percent two thirty

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<v Speaker 1>one percent. We have such a great show for you today.

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<v Speaker 1>Lincoln Project's own Rick Wilson joins us to discuss the

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<v Speaker 1>escalation in Iran and how it affects life in America.

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<v Speaker 1>Then we'll talk to Peter s Canillos about his new book,

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<v Speaker 1>Revenge for the Sixties, Samuel Alito, and the triumph of

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<v Speaker 1>the conservative legal movement.

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<v Speaker 2>But first the news, Molly, every time mister Trump talks

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<v Speaker 2>about Christianity, we all can send see with those of

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<v Speaker 2>us who are lifelig aestheist, that he has no idea

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<v Speaker 2>what he's talking about. He's never bothered for one second

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<v Speaker 2>even learn how to fake this. But then as well,

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<v Speaker 2>he skipped church on Easter. But what does he tweet

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<v Speaker 2>on Easter? Praise be to Allah?

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<v Speaker 1>All right, So I woke up at seven point thirty

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<v Speaker 1>and was like, I will pretend to sleep till eight o'clock.

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<v Speaker 1>I get on my phone and I see Tuesday will

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<v Speaker 1>be power plant Day and Bridge Day, all wrapped up

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<v Speaker 1>in one comma. In around there will be nothing like it.

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<v Speaker 1>Explanation point. Explanation point. Open the fucking comma straight, you

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<v Speaker 1>crazy fox, or you'll be living in hell. Just watch

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<v Speaker 1>explanation point. Praise be to Allah period. President Donald J.

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<v Speaker 1>Trump at eight oh three on Easter. I swear to God,

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<v Speaker 1>I thought it wasn't real, and so I went on

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<v Speaker 1>true social to find it because I just couldn't believe it.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's why I couldn't believe it because A it's very stupid.

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<v Speaker 1>B he's clearly trying to like do the Holy war.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's the here's the fundamental problem the Trump And we

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<v Speaker 1>see this with Hegseth too, like they really want to

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<v Speaker 1>be like you know, well, you know, Iran is this

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<v Speaker 1>very religious country and they're controlled by these clerics who

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<v Speaker 1>are very zealous. Well, here's the thing. Our country also

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<v Speaker 1>seems to be trying to pretend that they are a

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<v Speaker 1>country like that. But the truth is, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>this is an important point here is that, well, Donald

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<v Speaker 1>Trump thinks he wants a holy war because somehow that

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<v Speaker 1>will be I think he thinks that'll be funny or

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know what he thinks, but like, no one

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<v Speaker 1>wants this. The reason that no one wanted this war

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<v Speaker 1>to begin with was because it's huge country where they

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<v Speaker 1>have a lot of money and they have a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people. And quite frankly, this has nothing to do

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<v Speaker 1>with us, and the idea that somehow, you know, he's

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<v Speaker 1>explored every which reason to go into this country, like

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<v Speaker 1>he wants to free the protesters. Okay, the protesters, they're

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<v Speaker 1>as mad at us as the clerics are. Okay, because

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<v Speaker 1>we're bombing, you know, parts of the country that are

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<v Speaker 1>or at least we're threatening to bomb desalization plans, power plans,

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<v Speaker 1>parts of the country that technically it's a war crime

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<v Speaker 1>to bomb, you know, civilian serving apparatuses. But the other

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<v Speaker 1>thing is like this a huge country, and destabilizing this

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<v Speaker 1>country will destabilize the region. We've already destabilized this country.

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<v Speaker 1>We've closed the Straits. Even though the oil and gas

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<v Speaker 1>that comes through the Straits doesn't largely go to us,

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<v Speaker 1>it has still made oil and gas more expensive in

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<v Speaker 1>the world. Because the world is all connected, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>just like a crazy, crazy moment and the other thing

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<v Speaker 1>is like when they were able to rescue the downed pilot,

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<v Speaker 1>they did this thing where our military is obviously very

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<v Speaker 1>skilled and they were able to get in there and

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<v Speaker 1>get out of there without anyone getting lost, without anyone

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<v Speaker 1>getting hard and people have been killed in this war.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just in this incident they were able to get

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<v Speaker 1>in and out in a really skilled way. So instead

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<v Speaker 1>of taking the win and backing out and even just

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<v Speaker 1>let a run charge a toll for the strades who cares,

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<v Speaker 1>just get out because this is devolving into a complete disaster.

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<v Speaker 1>Instead of doing all that, our leadership just seems insane.

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<v Speaker 1>And there's no evidence that there is a negotiation going

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<v Speaker 1>on except that Trump says there's negotiation, and like, we

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<v Speaker 1>actually really need the Iranians to tell us if there

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<v Speaker 1>isn't a negotiation, because you know, we can't trust our

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<v Speaker 1>government and it is just a really fucked up moment

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<v Speaker 1>in an American life. And like I just want to

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<v Speaker 1>say one other thing, which is I you know, somebody

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<v Speaker 1>who's just like a normal person came over to me

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<v Speaker 1>the other day and was like this seems really bad,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was like, it is really bad, and we

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<v Speaker 1>kept saying it was going to be really bad, and

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<v Speaker 1>we knew it was going to be really bad. And

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<v Speaker 1>like the last time of its president, he had like

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<v Speaker 1>more than a million people died that didn't need to

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<v Speaker 1>die because of the pandemic. Like, this guy is not

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<v Speaker 1>a guy who should be president. It's not like a

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<v Speaker 1>Ronald Reagan where he's like a little domb or a

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<v Speaker 1>George W. Bush where he's like not the best choice

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<v Speaker 1>or a jab. It's like this guy is just really

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<v Speaker 1>responsible and doesn't care that he's leading this enormous country.

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<v Speaker 1>And so we are all just kind of at his

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<v Speaker 1>whim and mercy right now, and it is just so jarring.

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<v Speaker 1>And then we have a Congress that has absolutely no interest.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, the Republicans are evil and the Democrats are

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit factless team, Like, we need people running

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<v Speaker 1>a check on this guy.

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<v Speaker 2>So, speaking of things we need to check on, Trump

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<v Speaker 2>has released his budget plan. Would you be shocked to

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<v Speaker 2>hear this is just filled with some of the biggest

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<v Speaker 2>bullshit you've ever seen, I am not.

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<v Speaker 1>The savings are achieved by reducing or eliminating woke, weaponized,

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<v Speaker 1>and wasteful programs and returning state and local responsibilities to

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<v Speaker 1>their respective government.

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<v Speaker 3>How much does woke cost?

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<v Speaker 1>Woke it all no doctrum. Actually, there's like an insane

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<v Speaker 1>clip of him going around where he says, we can't

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<v Speaker 1>pay for daycare. We don't pay for daycare. The States

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<v Speaker 1>must pay for daycare. That's what he's talking about. What

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<v Speaker 1>he wants to do is he basically doesn't want to

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<v Speaker 1>pay for stuff. So this proposal includes a fifty two

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<v Speaker 1>million dollar cut for the TSA okay why nobody knows,

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<v Speaker 1>but a huge decrease for ICE and the military because

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<v Speaker 1>you want a paramilitary but you don't want the actual

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<v Speaker 1>screening for people flying. And a golden dome because Donald

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<v Speaker 1>Trump loves Israel. They have an iron dome. We need

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<v Speaker 1>to have a golden dome. It's like an iron dome,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's gold. It's so fucking stupid, And oh fyi,

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<v Speaker 1>massive cuts to gut from an agency is and a

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<v Speaker 1>lunar base camp for visiting the moon, and ten billion

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<v Speaker 1>dollars into the President's Capital Steward Program in order to

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<v Speaker 1>make DC safe, clean, and beautiful again, and also changes

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<v Speaker 1>to housing k through twelve food assistance programs. If you

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<v Speaker 1>get anything from the federal government, you're not getting it anymore,

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<v Speaker 1>but you will get Donald Trump spending a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>your tax dollars in renovating the White House where he

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<v Speaker 1>plans to live forever.

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<v Speaker 3>Great stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>So, as usual, what we've seen is Trump's revenge spree

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<v Speaker 2>where he tries to extort people and payback people for

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<v Speaker 2>what he feels have been done wrong to him.

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<v Speaker 3>Keeps being these trumped.

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<v Speaker 2>Up charges, which you know the irony of that word,

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<v Speaker 2>and one of them was against Jerome Powell, and that

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<v Speaker 2>has now been blocked by a judge.

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<v Speaker 1>The judges. Here's what happens. Donald Trump does crazy shit,

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<v Speaker 1>the judges tell him he can't, and then he just

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<v Speaker 1>tries to do it again. So here's a US judge.

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<v Speaker 1>On Friday, I stood by the decision to cush Department

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<v Speaker 1>of Justice subpoenas targeting FED Chair Jerome Palell. These are

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<v Speaker 1>judge blocked wine specials. Here the government can appeal the decision,

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<v Speaker 1>prolonging a standoffs that could delay the confirmation of Donald

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<v Speaker 1>Trump's new FED chair. Okay, I'm good with that. The

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<v Speaker 1>US District Court for Washington, d C. Denied the government's

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<v Speaker 1>motion to reconsider an earlier decision to throw out the

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<v Speaker 1>Grand Jury subpoenas directed at Powell. Judge Boseburg, you'll remember,

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<v Speaker 1>Trump was really mad at him, and so was Elon.

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<v Speaker 1>The court's chief judge quashed the spritest last week on

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<v Speaker 1>the grounds that the brog was aimed at pressuring Powell

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<v Speaker 1>and two yielding to Trump or resigning. By the way,

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<v Speaker 1>anyone who has eyes can see this. In the aftermath

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<v Speaker 1>of the decision, US Attorney for the District of Columbia

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<v Speaker 1>and alcoholic Juanian Piro, otherwise known as Judge Box of Wine,

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<v Speaker 1>said at a press conference that the investigation process had

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<v Speaker 1>been arbitrarily undermined by an activist judge. You know what's

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<v Speaker 1>arbitrary everything that Judge box of Wine does. Powell disclosed

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<v Speaker 1>in January that he was if the subpoena is seeking

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<v Speaker 1>records related to these Central banks multi billion dollar building renovations.

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<v Speaker 1>The government was examining whether Palell had committed fraud and

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<v Speaker 1>lied to Congress. Here's what Palell didn't do, commit fraud

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<v Speaker 1>or lie to Congress. Well, here's who did commit fraud

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<v Speaker 1>Trump in a million different ways, probably Judge box of Wine.

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<v Speaker 1>You know who didn't this guy to Rome pal You know,

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<v Speaker 1>this is just going to keep going up up to

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<v Speaker 1>the Supreme Court, where Alito and Thomas will say that

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump did nothing wrong, but probably the other justices

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<v Speaker 1>will not go along with that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So, speaking of not going along with it, nearly two

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<v Speaker 2>dozen Democratic states.

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<v Speaker 3>Have hit Trump with the elections lawsuits. This is good news.

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<v Speaker 3>After we saw this executive.

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<v Speaker 2>Order about mail and balloting and we were wondering how

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<v Speaker 2>big the pushback would be. It's seeming pretty big.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, this is totally a whoy. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>this is the thing. Donald Trump will do any sketchy

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<v Speaker 1>stuff he can.

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<v Speaker 4>That's it.

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<v Speaker 1>Like, that's period paragraph. My man do sketchy stuff. That's it.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, that's who he is.

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<v Speaker 4>Now.

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<v Speaker 1>Whether or not you let him do sketchy stuff, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a real question. That's where it is. So twenty three

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<v Speaker 1>different states and the District of Columbia taking Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 1>to court. It is unconstitutional and he will lose. The

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<v Speaker 1>President's latest attempt to interfere with the state's administrations of

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<v Speaker 1>their elections is as unprecedented as it is unconstitutional. Under

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<v Speaker 1>the Constitution, the president has no authority to restrict voter

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<v Speaker 1>eligibility or mail in voting to lists of voters pre

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<v Speaker 1>authorized by the federal government. Here's the one good thing

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<v Speaker 1>is that at least the courts are doing something because

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<v Speaker 1>the Congress is not. Rick Wilson is the founder of

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<v Speaker 1>Lincoln Project and the host of the Lincoln Project podcast.

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<v Speaker 5>Rick.

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<v Speaker 6>Hello, Molly, how are you on this fine day?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm good. So Donald Trump has gotten us into a war, which, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, does it when you start shooting down planes,

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<v Speaker 1>that's when you have ground troops once you have, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, is that a fair definition? And explain to

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<v Speaker 1>us what's going on now?

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<v Speaker 6>So, look, the the inevitable has now happened, and the

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<v Speaker 6>Iranians have shot down an American F fifteen E Strike Eagle.

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<v Speaker 6>Two crew members in the plane, very very effective, very

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<v Speaker 6>good strike bomber aircraft, but they shot it down with

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<v Speaker 6>a relatively cheap heat seeking missile.

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<v Speaker 3>From the ground.

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<v Speaker 6>One of the one of the crew has been recovered,

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<v Speaker 6>the other is still missing. If the Iranians captured that person,

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<v Speaker 6>they're about to have a global spectacle. They also managed

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<v Speaker 6>to shoot down an A ten war yesterday damage Inn

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<v Speaker 6>F thirty five, which is supposedly impossible shoot down a

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<v Speaker 6>HH sixty helicopter. We don't have a ton of those

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<v Speaker 6>and two drones. So we have now entered the phase

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<v Speaker 6>of the war where it's not all one sided, and

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<v Speaker 6>eventually you're gonna have put more there. They've put a

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<v Speaker 6>lot of search and rescue operations into Iran. Now that's

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<v Speaker 6>a aerial and probably folks on the ground as well

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<v Speaker 6>in terms of pj's pair of rescue jumpers.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, you have to at that point and.

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<v Speaker 6>Special operators to go and try to try to recover

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<v Speaker 6>the other missing crew member.

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<v Speaker 3>This will accelerate, these things always do.

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<v Speaker 6>And so what's gonna happen is somebody who's been in

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<v Speaker 6>there to send in there to retrieve the missing crew

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<v Speaker 6>member from the F fifteen is going to get shot

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<v Speaker 6>or captured or the anti firefight.

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<v Speaker 3>It just escalates.

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<v Speaker 6>And the problem is right now we see a line

0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.280
<v Speaker 6>of C seventeen cargo planes flying from the US into

0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.800
<v Speaker 6>the Middle East. We're ratching up and up and up.

0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:59.240
<v Speaker 6>The fake semi Taco twenty minute speech on Thursday night

0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:01.760
<v Speaker 6>did not make the markets feel better.

0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:04.880
<v Speaker 1>No, in fact, it made the markets feel worse.

0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:05.880
<v Speaker 4>Isn't real, That's right?

0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.040
<v Speaker 1>And BONDI Dow at fifty thousand moment.

0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:11.240
<v Speaker 6>You know, I think Molly, and I love to get

0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:13.320
<v Speaker 6>what your thoughts on this is. It's like, have we

0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:17.240
<v Speaker 6>reached the point where the taco trick only works if

0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:21.040
<v Speaker 6>he actually tacos, you know, and he hasn't. He's still

0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.560
<v Speaker 6>he's still going all in on this war. And I

0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:26.600
<v Speaker 6>don't think, I don't think that the markets are going

0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:31.720
<v Speaker 6>to recover until or unless they see him, the world's

0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.360
<v Speaker 6>greatest negotiator, negotiate his way out of this box.

0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.679
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think the problem is when you have the

0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:44.080
<v Speaker 1>straits closed ostensibly for American oil, which by the way,

0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:47.000
<v Speaker 1>there wasn't so much American oil going to there anyway,

0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.800
<v Speaker 1>So it just created a sort of situation with the

0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.760
<v Speaker 1>fungibowl oil and gas where you just there was less.

0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:58.280
<v Speaker 1>Well that's closed. There's not anything Trump can do to

0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:00.760
<v Speaker 1>increase the global supply of oil, which is what we

0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:04.839
<v Speaker 1>just saw, right, And he took off sanctions on this

0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:08.280
<v Speaker 1>Iranian oil, the Russian oil, which by the way, a

0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:13.559
<v Speaker 1>is you know, diplomatically quite suspect, but also will not

0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:17.120
<v Speaker 1>necessarily make oil cheaper. I mean, the thing is we're

0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:21.800
<v Speaker 1>cruising into summer, which is oil and gas time, right,

0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:24.440
<v Speaker 1>It's time for travel, It's time for airplanes.

0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:27.400
<v Speaker 6>It's time for and high high energy bills for our

0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:29.040
<v Speaker 6>high energy useful.

0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.600
<v Speaker 1>Conditions global warming. Yeah, and so we're gonna have this

0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.520
<v Speaker 1>very hot summer. We're gonna have very expensive gas and oil.

0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.960
<v Speaker 1>And you know, I don't think that Trump. You know,

0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.120
<v Speaker 1>just to think about like this in the historical reference

0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:49.280
<v Speaker 1>for a minute. So this was what completely crashed Bush one. Right,

0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.160
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't matter what you do if you make oil

0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:55.680
<v Speaker 1>and gas more expensive the American people, it's that's it.

0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:57.480
<v Speaker 3>Like it's just you are gonna get.

0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:01.440
<v Speaker 6>You were gonna get, You're gonna get. Right, Jimmy Carter

0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:04.160
<v Speaker 6>was in a period where expensive oil and gas coming

0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:06.240
<v Speaker 6>out of four going into Carter, we had expensive oil

0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.240
<v Speaker 6>and gas. Horrible for you, for your numbers. George W.

0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.040
<v Speaker 6>Bush in the second term, expensive oiling gas, horrible for

0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:14.760
<v Speaker 6>your numbers. Even Barack Obama took some damage from it.

0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:15.360
<v Speaker 4>For a little while.

0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:16.600
<v Speaker 3>We had we had a spike.

0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:21.320
<v Speaker 6>But with Trump, this was a decision that was made

0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:25.440
<v Speaker 6>precipitously with nothing in the background to support it. And

0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:28.840
<v Speaker 6>so now people are like directly connecting high price of

0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:30.800
<v Speaker 6>the pump, Donald Trump's war on Iran.

0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:31.600
<v Speaker 3>That's it.

0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.040
<v Speaker 6>It's a it's a it's bound together. And look his

0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.560
<v Speaker 6>numbers and we're seeing even more numbers over the weekend

0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.360
<v Speaker 6>that have come out, especially on the price of gas.

0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:43.440
<v Speaker 6>He is sixty sixty one percent disapproved his performance. And

0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:45.920
<v Speaker 6>when it comes to the price of energy and gas,

0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:50.160
<v Speaker 6>sixty one percent disapproval and that's forty five percent strong disapproval.

0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.960
<v Speaker 6>That is a real five alarmed political fire for this,

0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:55.840
<v Speaker 6>for the Republican Party and for Donald Trump.

0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I mean there are two things too that

0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:02.520
<v Speaker 1>there are no as historical president for to have a

0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:07.040
<v Speaker 1>president who runs on affordability, I'm going to make gas cheaper.

0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:08.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to make eggs cheaper. I'm going to make

0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.000
<v Speaker 1>fake and cheaper. Right, that was his message going into this.

0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.200
<v Speaker 1>And also I'm going to end four and mores. And

0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:19.240
<v Speaker 1>then what does he do priffs, you know, which make

0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.920
<v Speaker 1>things more expensive for and more, which makes oil more expensive.

0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:26.600
<v Speaker 1>Like just to have someone who immediately does exactly the

0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.360
<v Speaker 1>opposite of what they say they're going to do, I mean, like,

0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure there's a president for that historically.

0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.840
<v Speaker 3>No. Look, we have not seen a president.

0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.960
<v Speaker 6>Look I'll tell you, like presidents have very frequently big

0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.640
<v Speaker 6>externalities that hurt them. Okay, right, And look, while Bush,

0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.040
<v Speaker 6>while the war was unpopular, what really knocked Bush's numbers

0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.760
<v Speaker 6>out of the box was Katrina. Okay, what the largest

0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:56.080
<v Speaker 6>percentage decline was at the post Katrina? When you had

0:16:56.240 --> 0:17:01.400
<v Speaker 6>the financial crisis? Even though Barack Obama didn't directly cause

0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:04.000
<v Speaker 6>it or wasn't there when it started, he was suffering

0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.960
<v Speaker 6>through the worst of the financial crisis, a big externality,

0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:09.240
<v Speaker 6>and it hurt his numbers, and that is in part

0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:13.720
<v Speaker 6>what led to the political climate for the ten Yeah,

0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.440
<v Speaker 6>so all these you know, every president faces some external thing.

0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:20.320
<v Speaker 1>Usually they don't cause it, right and that.

0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.200
<v Speaker 6>But the difference here between every other president and Trump

0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.040
<v Speaker 6>is He's like, what can I do that's gonna absolutely

0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.080
<v Speaker 6>completely train wreck my economy? And what can I do

0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:31.400
<v Speaker 6>that's going to blow up my allies around the world?

0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:33.640
<v Speaker 6>What can I do that's going to harm the global economy?

0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:35.320
<v Speaker 6>And oh, by the way, what can I need to

0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:39.280
<v Speaker 6>pretend that the that the global petro market isn't a

0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:42.280
<v Speaker 6>global market. The reason gas is going up here, folks,

0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.800
<v Speaker 6>is not because we buy gas from a run We don't.

0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.159
<v Speaker 6>The reason is it's a global market and you can't

0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:50.880
<v Speaker 6>just hand wave away the fact that it's a global market.

0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:55.280
<v Speaker 6>I heard yesterday that there's a some discussions inside of

0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.679
<v Speaker 6>the White House now of trying to if you just

0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:00.080
<v Speaker 6>want to watch the if you want to really to

0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.679
<v Speaker 6>watch the economic system meltdown to impose new price controls

0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:05.520
<v Speaker 6>on oil and gas in America.

0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:09.320
<v Speaker 1>Right right, which I was told communism. Yeah, I just

0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:17.200
<v Speaker 1>getna say. I was like excited to watch that play out,

0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.320
<v Speaker 1>and we were. But I do think, like, you know, what

0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:22.720
<v Speaker 1>you see now is you see Donald Trump who sees

0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.040
<v Speaker 1>bad poll numbers and is like, fucking, I'm just gonna

0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:30.040
<v Speaker 1>start firing people, which is probably good for American democracy.

0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:34.440
<v Speaker 1>Here follow my thinking here, So Trump two point out.

0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:37.320
<v Speaker 1>The first year, you saw nothing out of that White House.

0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:41.720
<v Speaker 1>It was not leaky. It was so tight. Mike Walls

0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:45.959
<v Speaker 1>accidentally as the editor in chief of the Economist of

0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:49.080
<v Speaker 1>the Economists of the Atlantic to group chat and does

0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:51.840
<v Speaker 1>not get fired. He gets moved to a sort of

0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:56.040
<v Speaker 1>slightly different job, right, And we saw, really, you know,

0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:58.520
<v Speaker 1>it was just tight, and Trump was getting away with

0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.080
<v Speaker 1>it and people were making mistakes, but we weren't hearing

0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:04.880
<v Speaker 1>sort of what really happened. Now and this second year,

0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:08.160
<v Speaker 1>Trump has just given up. He's firing people, he's moving

0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:12.119
<v Speaker 1>them around. So we're seeing like a Pam Bondy now

0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:16.199
<v Speaker 1>you know that story. There must be like fifteen people

0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.600
<v Speaker 1>leaking with that story because we found out when they

0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:23.480
<v Speaker 1>drove in the beast to the Supreme Court, we found

0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:27.000
<v Speaker 1>out that she sat with him and then he moved.

0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:28.920
<v Speaker 1>That he was there for an hour and a half.

0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.280
<v Speaker 1>I mean just like literally every bit. You know that

0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:35.000
<v Speaker 1>she had been begging to stay on till the summer,

0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:39.120
<v Speaker 1>doug right, like we I mean, there was so much reporting.

0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:42.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean, he probably was leaking. She was definitely leaking,

0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:46.000
<v Speaker 1>and everyone she ever met was also leaking. And that

0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:50.280
<v Speaker 1>kind of transparency is actually probably much better for American democracy.

0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:55.320
<v Speaker 6>Mollie, you have had the first year of Trump two

0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.840
<v Speaker 6>point zero a desire to not Trump didn't want to

0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:02.080
<v Speaker 6>give the media a in by firing anybody, because he

0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:06.399
<v Speaker 6>viewed firing people as letting the media win. And yet

0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:11.000
<v Speaker 6>this is absolutely driven by the fact that the media

0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:14.760
<v Speaker 6>was merciless about Pam Bondi's cover up of the Epstein files.

0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:21.520
<v Speaker 6>That they kept calling the media too, but actually you

0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:24.720
<v Speaker 6>were one hundred percent just getting there. Your You gotta

0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:26.320
<v Speaker 6>have a hundred percent correct.

0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:27.399
<v Speaker 4>No, no, no, no, no.

0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:32.280
<v Speaker 6>But the horrific nature of her cover up of Epstein

0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.920
<v Speaker 6>was so bad that even Fox couldn't ignore it, even

0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:38.880
<v Speaker 6>a way in, and Newsmax and all the MAGA online

0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:42.280
<v Speaker 6>garbage couldn't ignore it. And so we may have a

0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:47.480
<v Speaker 6>moment right now where where the vulnerability of Trump's mental processes.

0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.240
<v Speaker 6>He knows how bad Epstein is for him, and I

0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:53.760
<v Speaker 6>think they made a giant mistake. Todd Blanche rolled out

0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:56.800
<v Speaker 6>on Friday and said, We've really saw the Epstein files.

0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:58.399
<v Speaker 6>It's over, it's done. Fuck you shut up.

0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:01.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, Black gonna say something.

0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:04.080
<v Speaker 3>That ain't gonna that ain. I was texting with a

0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:06.399
<v Speaker 3>member of the committee. I remember the committee last night.

0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:08.560
<v Speaker 6>I said, you're gonna take this line down.

0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:10.520
<v Speaker 3>He goes, oh, no, my friend, we are not.

0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:14.520
<v Speaker 1>But it's also I mean. She also remembers she ran

0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:20.119
<v Speaker 1>a foul of MAGA influencers who are Dominant's core constituency.

0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.960
<v Speaker 1>She gave them those binders with the xeroxis of stuff

0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.439
<v Speaker 1>you can find on the internet, and they were so

0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:29.879
<v Speaker 1>embarrassed they posed for photos. Then they went home. They

0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:32.120
<v Speaker 1>looked in the binders and they were like, what the

0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:37.040
<v Speaker 1>actual fuck. And then those people committed the next seven

0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:40.440
<v Speaker 1>months to getting her fired and like it's a cautionary

0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:42.680
<v Speaker 1>tale for not being a complete moron.

0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.679
<v Speaker 6>Well listen, she she didn't. She also didn't understand. I

0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:50.119
<v Speaker 6>wrote a piece about this called Knives Out for Bondi yesterday.

0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:52.760
<v Speaker 6>Blanch was going to do this to her no matter what.

0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:56.720
<v Speaker 6>Blanche is the guy who's much smarter than Pam Bondy.

0:21:56.760 --> 0:21:59.800
<v Speaker 6>And I will tell people that Pam is Pam is

0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:07.159
<v Speaker 6>not dumb, Like she's not a moron, but she's also right, yeah, right,

0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.280
<v Speaker 6>she's not Christine nom but neither is she you know,

0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:14.399
<v Speaker 6>some sort of mad you know, high level strategic thinker.

0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:18.080
<v Speaker 6>She's very obedient, she's very very good at being the

0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:21.320
<v Speaker 6>at being the good girl, the good guy for the

0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:24.080
<v Speaker 6>big boss. When she was in Florida, she was basically like,

0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:26.880
<v Speaker 6>what does Jeb want? What does Rick Scott want? When

0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:29.240
<v Speaker 6>when it's when it's Trump, it's what does Trump want?

0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:34.359
<v Speaker 6>So but Blanche viewed her as a way to like

0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:36.720
<v Speaker 6>take some of the air out of the Epstein balloon

0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:39.240
<v Speaker 6>so he could step in. And I had heard from

0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:42.920
<v Speaker 6>somebody very adjacent to the White House that Blanche was

0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:47.560
<v Speaker 6>the guy who was rallying other people to go to

0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:49.760
<v Speaker 6>Trump and to go to Susie and say, come on, man,

0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:53.960
<v Speaker 6>she's embarrassing you. She's hurting you. And and her big

0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:57.679
<v Speaker 6>performance that she gave in front of the committee, the

0:22:57.800 --> 0:22:59.240
<v Speaker 6>Dow fifty thousand.

0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:00.800
<v Speaker 4>Performance, that was great.

0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:05.840
<v Speaker 6>I was told that Blanche said to him that was embarrassing.

0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:08.200
<v Speaker 6>That was over the top. She could have been more subtle,

0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:10.240
<v Speaker 6>She could have handled it better. She could have really

0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:14.879
<v Speaker 6>embarrassed them. That was the Amateur Hour or something awards

0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:18.720
<v Speaker 6>to that effect. Not wrong, not wrong, but I but I.

0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:19.320
<v Speaker 3>I I.

0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:24.920
<v Speaker 6>Think that the the knives out thing in the Justice Department.

0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:28.240
<v Speaker 6>You've also gotten now Alina Habba and Judge box of Wine,

0:23:28.880 --> 0:23:32.760
<v Speaker 6>and and and Lee Zelden on the outside, all wanting

0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:35.720
<v Speaker 6>that job. Blanche.

0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:41.320
<v Speaker 4>Blanche the arrogance has that job though, right, the.

0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:44.200
<v Speaker 6>Arrogance of Blanche, though, I think it's gonna be the

0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:47.440
<v Speaker 6>the UPNS is coming, as they say, for a time, Blanche,

0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:51.680
<v Speaker 6>because he's now as Thomas Massey said, thanks glad you

0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:53.600
<v Speaker 6>took the job. You now have thirty days to comply

0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:57.400
<v Speaker 6>because that's the law, right And and the other part

0:23:57.400 --> 0:24:00.200
<v Speaker 6>of this is Bondie doesn't go away. Remember that he

0:24:00.280 --> 0:24:02.399
<v Speaker 6>issued the subpoena to her by name, not to her

0:24:02.440 --> 0:24:04.040
<v Speaker 6>by title. She's still gonna be.

0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:05.359
<v Speaker 1>Up two weeks.

0:24:05.680 --> 0:24:10.320
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I'm curious about I'm I am very curious about

0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:13.560
<v Speaker 7>Bondi though, because it does seem like I would be

0:24:13.720 --> 0:24:16.199
<v Speaker 7>really surprised if Bondi comes out against Trump.

0:24:16.280 --> 0:24:17.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean, do you think there's a world where that

0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:21.280
<v Speaker 1>happens that doesn't seem like the move to May It would.

0:24:21.000 --> 0:24:24.560
<v Speaker 6>Be the most hilarious face turn ever. Yeah, I don't

0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:27.200
<v Speaker 6>see it in the short term, but I will tell

0:24:27.240 --> 0:24:32.080
<v Speaker 6>you I know someone extremely close to Bondi who who

0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:36.200
<v Speaker 6>are like a lifetime long friend of Pam Bondy, who

0:24:36.640 --> 0:24:41.320
<v Speaker 6>is not Susie Wile, not Susie Wiles. But the shock

0:24:41.480 --> 0:24:46.800
<v Speaker 6>and and and embarrassment right now is through the roof.

0:24:47.680 --> 0:24:51.040
<v Speaker 6>And look, if you are Pam Bondy, you're gonna have

0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:53.359
<v Speaker 6>one of two things. One is and this happened a

0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:55.400
<v Speaker 6>lot in the first administration. People will say to you, well,

0:24:55.440 --> 0:24:57.919
<v Speaker 6>you've been fired, but you know you could still come back,

0:24:58.040 --> 0:25:01.040
<v Speaker 6>you could still He forgives people, well, she's not coming

0:25:01.080 --> 0:25:01.520
<v Speaker 6>back in the.

0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:02.840
<v Speaker 3>Next two years. That's it.

0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:04.920
<v Speaker 4>This is over for her.

0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:08.000
<v Speaker 6>And so she's got to be thinking on one level.

0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:10.000
<v Speaker 6>You know, I don't want to cross the president. I

0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:12.440
<v Speaker 6>don't want to get Todd Blanche to pursue me because

0:25:12.440 --> 0:25:15.080
<v Speaker 6>they're believe me, there is a world where the DJ

0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:16.600
<v Speaker 6>starts investigating Pam BONDI.

0:25:17.040 --> 0:25:22.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, if.

0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:23.560
<v Speaker 6>She does, If she if she plays ball, she's legally

0:25:23.640 --> 0:25:28.480
<v Speaker 6>vulnerable and will never escape the families going after her,

0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:32.200
<v Speaker 6>the congressional investigations that will last until she's dead.

0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:37.280
<v Speaker 1>I think she's legally vulnerable.

0:25:37.359 --> 0:25:41.399
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, gone, yeah, But if she does turn Pam BONDI

0:25:41.440 --> 0:25:44.440
<v Speaker 6>has a chance again to do something nobody else does

0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:47.720
<v Speaker 6>around Trump. She just pull the fucking whole curtain back

0:25:47.760 --> 0:25:51.479
<v Speaker 6>and go I'm sorry, America. I bought into it. I

0:25:51.600 --> 0:25:54.160
<v Speaker 6>was part of the most corrupt cover up and history.

0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:56.800
<v Speaker 6>Here's what I know from the Epstein files. Here's what

0:25:56.880 --> 0:25:59.040
<v Speaker 6>we're hiding. I think the chance of her doing.

0:25:58.880 --> 0:26:01.520
<v Speaker 1>That is like point oh oh, yeah, I was gonna say,

0:26:01.560 --> 0:26:03.679
<v Speaker 1>it seems very slim.

0:26:03.920 --> 0:26:06.360
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it would be very It would be very sort

0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:10.280
<v Speaker 6>of Aaron Sorkin if she did. But you know, I

0:26:10.880 --> 0:26:13.960
<v Speaker 6>have a little faith in the in the moral courage

0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:14.880
<v Speaker 6>of body.

0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:17.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that's a good move, but it is

0:26:17.960 --> 0:26:21.560
<v Speaker 1>it is a really good question, right, the idea of

0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:25.400
<v Speaker 1>what this sort of vulnerability here, And we saw this

0:26:25.920 --> 0:26:31.080
<v Speaker 1>with CHRISTINEO, right, like Christineome is never coming back. You know,

0:26:31.200 --> 0:26:33.760
<v Speaker 1>she has now gotten a fake job. The Shield of

0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:35.960
<v Speaker 1>the America's right core.

0:26:36.760 --> 0:26:40.560
<v Speaker 5>They you know, whoever had those photos of the husband

0:26:40.800 --> 0:26:45.920
<v Speaker 5>with the balloons in the shirt, those probably have been

0:26:45.920 --> 0:26:49.639
<v Speaker 5>going around blackmailing people forever, right, I mean, there's no

0:26:49.800 --> 0:26:53.160
<v Speaker 5>way that that's the first she learned of those photos.

0:26:53.480 --> 0:26:54.000
<v Speaker 4>Just us.

0:26:54.119 --> 0:26:59.480
<v Speaker 6>I think somebody and it was probably either Joe Pounder

0:26:59.560 --> 0:27:01.920
<v Speaker 6>or a guy like Joe Pounder is a big opposition

0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:04.480
<v Speaker 6>research guy in the Republican Party and they used Joe

0:27:04.520 --> 0:27:08.600
<v Speaker 6>a lot. He's one of their go tos. I'm told

0:27:08.840 --> 0:27:11.920
<v Speaker 6>it probably had those pictures for a year. And look,

0:27:12.320 --> 0:27:16.080
<v Speaker 6>when you see a guy that deep into whatever fetish

0:27:16.119 --> 0:27:21.359
<v Speaker 6>thing he's into, or whatever whatever closeted behavior he's into,

0:27:21.480 --> 0:27:24.560
<v Speaker 6>I can't even characterize the whole thing. That's not something

0:27:24.600 --> 0:27:27.679
<v Speaker 6>that just sprang up five minutes ago. That's probably a

0:27:27.800 --> 0:27:30.399
<v Speaker 6>paraphilia that he's had for a very long time.

0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:35.119
<v Speaker 1>I wonder about that, like, do you think that that

0:27:35.440 --> 0:27:36.560
<v Speaker 1>why that got released?

0:27:36.600 --> 0:27:37.040
<v Speaker 3>Now?

0:27:37.080 --> 0:27:39.200
<v Speaker 1>Can you do you have any insight on that. Did

0:27:39.280 --> 0:27:42.879
<v Speaker 1>she not do something someone wanted? I mean, because clearly

0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:44.480
<v Speaker 1>that had been around for a long time.

0:27:44.640 --> 0:27:48.280
<v Speaker 6>I think part of this might be trying to put

0:27:48.320 --> 0:27:52.560
<v Speaker 6>a giant final spike into her as a credible political

0:27:52.600 --> 0:27:57.240
<v Speaker 6>figure and any any maga dimension. Look, you are now

0:27:57.280 --> 0:28:00.920
<v Speaker 6>seeing the early early going of the twenty twenty eight

0:28:00.960 --> 0:28:04.000
<v Speaker 6>Republican primary. Okay, you've got jd Vance with a new

0:28:04.040 --> 0:28:07.080
<v Speaker 6>book about how Christian he is. You've got you know,

0:28:07.200 --> 0:28:10.359
<v Speaker 6>Marco being the jack of all trades and liberator of Cuba.

0:28:10.840 --> 0:28:13.240
<v Speaker 6>You've got you know, You've got all these guys in

0:28:13.280 --> 0:28:17.720
<v Speaker 6>Congress starting to play. And Corey Lewandowski before the Great Fall,

0:28:18.320 --> 0:28:20.640
<v Speaker 6>was telling people she's going to do this immigration thing,

0:28:20.800 --> 0:28:23.119
<v Speaker 6>that's what Republicans care about the most, that's going to

0:28:23.160 --> 0:28:24.760
<v Speaker 6>put her in the front of the pack for twenty

0:28:24.800 --> 0:28:25.359
<v Speaker 6>twenty eight.

0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:26.080
<v Speaker 4>To repress Trump.

0:28:26.640 --> 0:28:30.399
<v Speaker 1>That was just I think, go to prevent her from running.

0:28:30.680 --> 0:28:32.800
<v Speaker 6>I think it was just oppo to stop her, to

0:28:33.000 --> 0:28:35.320
<v Speaker 6>end her, and maybe a little bit of opo to

0:28:35.440 --> 0:28:37.960
<v Speaker 6>say we could tell more stories if you'd like.

0:28:38.560 --> 0:28:41.800
<v Speaker 1>Right to keep, and also to keep Corey in line.

0:28:42.040 --> 0:28:44.920
<v Speaker 6>Well, Corey, I think I think they've turned on Corey

0:28:44.960 --> 0:28:49.320
<v Speaker 6>pretty pretty aggressively. We've saw stories last week coming out

0:28:49.320 --> 0:28:51.880
<v Speaker 6>about how Corey is now under an internal.

0:28:51.480 --> 0:28:52.720
<v Speaker 3>Investigation at DHS.

0:28:53.000 --> 0:28:57.360
<v Speaker 6>They don't investigate anybody at DHS internally unless they aggressively

0:28:57.400 --> 0:29:00.600
<v Speaker 6>want to fuck them over. They stopped all that stuff

0:29:00.680 --> 0:29:03.200
<v Speaker 6>until until they decided that she and Corey had to go.

0:29:03.600 --> 0:29:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Clearly that two hundred and twenty million dollars for the videos,

0:29:08.080 --> 0:29:11.320
<v Speaker 1>like that is sort of like a bridge too far.

0:29:11.880 --> 0:29:15.400
<v Speaker 1>Do you think that that? Do you think like they

0:29:15.440 --> 0:29:18.680
<v Speaker 1>will get charged with fraud? And do you because clearly

0:29:19.040 --> 0:29:21.680
<v Speaker 1>like that, you know, like, do you think that was

0:29:21.960 --> 0:29:25.080
<v Speaker 1>a sort of a decision that that's what's coming next?

0:29:25.320 --> 0:29:26.720
<v Speaker 3>I think they will get charged.

0:29:27.320 --> 0:29:29.280
<v Speaker 6>I think also there's a thing in a government called

0:29:29.280 --> 0:29:31.880
<v Speaker 6>a key tam lawsuit, which is where whistle blower can

0:29:31.880 --> 0:29:34.440
<v Speaker 6>bring a lawsuit about government fraud and collect a percentage

0:29:34.440 --> 0:29:34.640
<v Speaker 6>of it.

0:29:34.920 --> 0:29:37.600
<v Speaker 1>Oh so fortunity.

0:29:38.320 --> 0:29:41.720
<v Speaker 6>Right, So, some some staff or O Minion at some

0:29:41.880 --> 0:29:44.640
<v Speaker 6>point got an email or was on a on a call,

0:29:44.840 --> 0:29:47.120
<v Speaker 6>or had a or and look, there's no way they

0:29:47.120 --> 0:29:50.800
<v Speaker 6>spent two hundred and twenty million dollars without a essentially

0:29:50.840 --> 0:29:52.959
<v Speaker 6>a cap table of who's going to make money off

0:29:53.000 --> 0:29:53.280
<v Speaker 6>of the deal?

0:29:53.440 --> 0:29:54.440
<v Speaker 1>Right, Right?

0:29:54.520 --> 0:29:58.800
<v Speaker 6>And I promise you Corey has some side deal. Nobody

0:29:58.840 --> 0:30:02.160
<v Speaker 6>else was Trump World makes a damn dime unless the

0:30:02.240 --> 0:30:03.920
<v Speaker 6>family gets some big off.

0:30:03.720 --> 0:30:07.920
<v Speaker 1>Of it, right, So this could end tied back to

0:30:07.960 --> 0:30:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Trump too though.

0:30:09.080 --> 0:30:13.040
<v Speaker 6>Right, or the Trump sons or God knows, or or

0:30:13.520 --> 0:30:16.120
<v Speaker 6>or some other consultant around Maga world who would then

0:30:16.200 --> 0:30:18.160
<v Speaker 6>launder it to the Trumps.

0:30:18.800 --> 0:30:18.960
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:30:18.960 --> 0:30:19.400
<v Speaker 1>Who knows?

0:30:19.400 --> 0:30:22.960
<v Speaker 6>The byzantine nature of their corruption is why it's hard

0:30:23.160 --> 0:30:24.120
<v Speaker 6>hard to figure it out.

0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:27.000
<v Speaker 1>And it's so funny. We've been doing this for I

0:30:27.400 --> 0:30:30.360
<v Speaker 1>stumbled on a picture of us from twenty eighteen. I'm

0:30:30.360 --> 0:30:32.640
<v Speaker 1>going to send it to you, when you were sending

0:30:32.760 --> 0:30:37.480
<v Speaker 1>so young and our young, that it was almost over,

0:30:38.040 --> 0:30:40.440
<v Speaker 1>and that we were that this was just this was

0:30:40.600 --> 0:30:44.280
<v Speaker 1>I seem to remember many a piece written this is not.

0:30:44.280 --> 0:30:47.800
<v Speaker 3>Who we are, this is who the fuck we are.

0:30:49.400 --> 0:30:52.560
<v Speaker 1>We turned America into Florida, and I'm glad to be

0:30:52.600 --> 0:30:56.840
<v Speaker 1>able to narrate it with you. Likewise, my friend, Will

0:30:56.880 --> 0:30:58.000
<v Speaker 1>I see you next Sunday?

0:30:58.680 --> 0:30:59.480
<v Speaker 3>You sure will.

0:31:02.160 --> 0:31:03.000
<v Speaker 4>Peter S.

0:31:03.120 --> 0:31:06.520
<v Speaker 1>Canellos is an editor of Politico and the author of

0:31:06.560 --> 0:31:10.440
<v Speaker 1>the Revenge of the Sixties, Samuel Alito and the Triumph

0:31:10.560 --> 0:31:16.160
<v Speaker 1>of the Conservative Legal Movement. Welcome welcome, Peter.

0:31:16.800 --> 0:31:19.760
<v Speaker 4>Thank you so much, Mollie. So we're talking about.

0:31:19.520 --> 0:31:24.200
<v Speaker 1>Your book about justice. Alito, besides being the foil of

0:31:24.240 --> 0:31:28.440
<v Speaker 1>all people who like good things, who like nice things,

0:31:28.680 --> 0:31:30.520
<v Speaker 1>give us the importance of Alito.

0:31:31.120 --> 0:31:35.600
<v Speaker 8>I think that Alito is emblematic of the conservative legal movement.

0:31:35.960 --> 0:31:39.959
<v Speaker 8>The book is called Revenge for the Sixties, and it

0:31:40.040 --> 0:31:42.479
<v Speaker 8>tries to look at the social and cultural roots of

0:31:42.600 --> 0:31:45.720
<v Speaker 8>the conservative legal movement, which now dominates the Supreme Court.

0:31:45.760 --> 0:31:47.720
<v Speaker 4>You know, this is how we got to this point

0:31:47.720 --> 0:31:48.960
<v Speaker 4>in the American judiciary.

0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:53.600
<v Speaker 8>And the reason Alito is emblematic of it is that

0:31:53.800 --> 0:31:57.440
<v Speaker 8>he came from the same social and cultural background as

0:31:57.560 --> 0:32:00.400
<v Speaker 8>many of the leaders of the Federalist Society, the founders

0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:03.640
<v Speaker 8>of the Federal Society, other leaders of the movement, and

0:32:03.680 --> 0:32:07.600
<v Speaker 8>that is he was the product of immigrant parents and

0:32:07.720 --> 0:32:11.520
<v Speaker 8>grandparents from the twentieth century, people who taught him that,

0:32:11.600 --> 0:32:14.520
<v Speaker 8>you know, America was the great hope for freedom, that

0:32:14.560 --> 0:32:17.800
<v Speaker 8>this was the place where you make your fortune. He

0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:22.120
<v Speaker 8>experienced prejudice, or the family experienced anti Italian prejudice, but

0:32:22.240 --> 0:32:23.520
<v Speaker 8>felt like they overcame it.

0:32:23.840 --> 0:32:26.280
<v Speaker 4>He was educated in the Cold War public.

0:32:26.000 --> 0:32:29.640
<v Speaker 8>Schools and then he confronted at Princeton being in the

0:32:29.720 --> 0:32:32.720
<v Speaker 8>last all male class, with women arriving the next year.

0:32:32.880 --> 0:32:37.080
<v Speaker 8>Suddenly their dorm room discussions about sex and premarital sex,

0:32:37.120 --> 0:32:38.720
<v Speaker 8>and people challenging.

0:32:38.240 --> 0:32:42.800
<v Speaker 4>His conservative Catholic views. There's anti war protests, there are

0:32:42.880 --> 0:32:47.239
<v Speaker 4>exams being canceled, and he feels suddenly that he's at

0:32:47.280 --> 0:32:50.280
<v Speaker 4>odds with his entire generation. And I think that's in

0:32:50.360 --> 0:32:53.480
<v Speaker 4>some sense where the conservative legal movement came from. From

0:32:53.480 --> 0:32:57.560
<v Speaker 4>that place, that sense of very high achieving, meritocratic people

0:32:57.800 --> 0:33:02.640
<v Speaker 4>with this real believer in American exception, belief in American exceptionalism.

0:33:02.200 --> 0:33:05.800
<v Speaker 8>Who needed to create an alternative path to get ahead

0:33:05.880 --> 0:33:06.920
<v Speaker 8>because they.

0:33:06.800 --> 0:33:09.120
<v Speaker 4>Felt they were at odds with their own generation.

0:33:09.440 --> 0:33:13.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. You know, it's so interesting because my father was

0:33:14.000 --> 0:33:18.800
<v Speaker 1>a baby boomer who protests the war, went to Princeton,

0:33:19.400 --> 0:33:22.480
<v Speaker 1>bristled against Princeton for a whole other sliver of reasons.

0:33:22.520 --> 0:33:27.240
<v Speaker 1>And there's an op ed about which I think you wrote.

0:33:27.320 --> 0:33:28.280
<v Speaker 1>Did you write that up there?

0:33:28.320 --> 0:33:30.560
<v Speaker 4>I wrote, yeah, yeah, about that.

0:33:30.600 --> 0:33:33.400
<v Speaker 1>There was another Supreme Court justice who went to Princeton

0:33:33.720 --> 0:33:38.440
<v Speaker 1>and she had a very different experience there, so go, yeah.

0:33:38.120 --> 0:33:40.360
<v Speaker 4>Well that was Sonya Sotomayor.

0:33:40.720 --> 0:33:42.840
<v Speaker 8>And I think you look at this place in the

0:33:42.920 --> 0:33:45.960
<v Speaker 8>nineteen seventies and late sixties, in the case of Alito,

0:33:46.040 --> 0:33:48.960
<v Speaker 8>where Princeton was opening the doors to two separate communities.

0:33:49.000 --> 0:33:51.560
<v Speaker 4>One was public school kids who you.

0:33:51.560 --> 0:33:54.520
<v Speaker 8>Know, maybe first generation college students, who you know, came

0:33:54.560 --> 0:33:57.600
<v Speaker 8>out of the immigration waves of the twentieth century. The

0:33:57.640 --> 0:34:02.200
<v Speaker 8>other was women they never admitted women until nineteen sixty nine,

0:34:02.400 --> 0:34:05.760
<v Speaker 8>and people of color, whom they were encouraging to come

0:34:05.800 --> 0:34:08.359
<v Speaker 8>for the first time, making real efforts to bring people in.

0:34:08.640 --> 0:34:12.640
<v Speaker 8>And what's interesting is both groups felt very alienated. Both

0:34:12.640 --> 0:34:15.200
<v Speaker 8>of them felt very out of sorts with the sort

0:34:15.200 --> 0:34:18.600
<v Speaker 8>of eating clubs which represents like the wealthy Princeton elites.

0:34:19.000 --> 0:34:23.120
<v Speaker 8>And yet over time Princeton evolved and Princeton became more

0:34:23.280 --> 0:34:26.920
<v Speaker 8>the Sonya Soda Mayor University than the sam Alito University

0:34:27.080 --> 0:34:29.600
<v Speaker 8>and Soda. My memories of her time at Princeton became

0:34:29.680 --> 0:34:32.000
<v Speaker 8>more and more positive. It's like she says, her whole

0:34:32.040 --> 0:34:34.640
<v Speaker 8>life's journey began when she the day she was accepted

0:34:34.640 --> 0:34:36.719
<v Speaker 8>at Princeton. I mean this is Princeton is the source

0:34:36.760 --> 0:34:38.520
<v Speaker 8>of all of her hope and energy.

0:34:38.560 --> 0:34:39.480
<v Speaker 4>Alito, when he.

0:34:39.560 --> 0:34:41.960
<v Speaker 8>Was being confirmed for the Supreme Court, said Princeton was

0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:45.239
<v Speaker 8>the place where he saw some really privileged people doing

0:34:45.239 --> 0:34:48.759
<v Speaker 8>some really irresponsible things. Talking about the anti war protests

0:34:48.760 --> 0:34:51.560
<v Speaker 8>that your dad may have been involved in, and those

0:34:51.560 --> 0:34:54.880
<v Speaker 8>are two radically different experiences. They come out of, you know,

0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:56.600
<v Speaker 8>what it meant to be in the Ivy League schools

0:34:56.600 --> 0:34:59.040
<v Speaker 8>in that era, And I think that's also very emblematic

0:34:59.080 --> 0:35:02.120
<v Speaker 8>of the conservative legal movement. I mean, these are not

0:35:02.320 --> 0:35:05.560
<v Speaker 8>maga working class kids. These are like Ivy League kids,

0:35:05.600 --> 0:35:09.919
<v Speaker 8>but they feel very culturally and socially alienated from their

0:35:10.040 --> 0:35:13.640
<v Speaker 8>peers who believed in the liberation movements of the sixties

0:35:13.680 --> 0:35:16.200
<v Speaker 8>and believed in the ideals of the sixties, and believed

0:35:16.239 --> 0:35:17.640
<v Speaker 8>in the anti war protests.

0:35:17.920 --> 0:35:21.920
<v Speaker 1>It's funny because my father complains about Princeton were that

0:35:21.960 --> 0:35:25.240
<v Speaker 1>it was very elite and that the people didn't care,

0:35:25.440 --> 0:35:27.319
<v Speaker 1>and that they didn't care about what was happening. And

0:35:27.360 --> 0:35:29.760
<v Speaker 1>he actually left Princeton to go to Sarah Lawrence because

0:35:29.760 --> 0:35:32.239
<v Speaker 1>he thought they were horribly out of touch and the

0:35:32.280 --> 0:35:37.040
<v Speaker 1>eating clubs and the legacy of conservative craziness.

0:35:36.520 --> 0:35:39.600
<v Speaker 4>That's a common perception. Your dad wasn't honed.

0:35:39.880 --> 0:35:42.439
<v Speaker 1>For sure, So Alito, you know, it's funny because it's

0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:46.040
<v Speaker 1>like there's a lot of Catholicism on the Supreme Court

0:35:46.200 --> 0:35:48.960
<v Speaker 1>on the conservative side. I don't think that's by accident.

0:35:49.320 --> 0:35:51.480
<v Speaker 1>So I would love you to sort of thread this

0:35:51.600 --> 0:35:54.280
<v Speaker 1>conservative legal movement to Catholicism.

0:35:54.560 --> 0:35:57.160
<v Speaker 8>I think that it comes from several different strands of Catholicism.

0:35:57.200 --> 0:36:01.399
<v Speaker 8>I think that in sam Alito's mind, Catholicism is conflated

0:36:01.520 --> 0:36:05.680
<v Speaker 8>with his Italian American immigrant experience. The church was the

0:36:05.719 --> 0:36:09.000
<v Speaker 8>place where his grandparents were accepted. It was where they

0:36:09.000 --> 0:36:11.560
<v Speaker 8>could find a sense of community in a foreign land.

0:36:12.000 --> 0:36:14.000
<v Speaker 4>It was part of their identity as Italians.

0:36:14.040 --> 0:36:16.440
<v Speaker 8>You know, the Catholic Church is literally part of the

0:36:16.560 --> 0:36:20.400
<v Speaker 8>national fabric of Italy and has special a special place

0:36:20.440 --> 0:36:22.640
<v Speaker 8>in the Italian government and constitution.

0:36:22.880 --> 0:36:23.080
<v Speaker 4>You know.

0:36:23.239 --> 0:36:29.719
<v Speaker 8>So he sees Catholicism as interwoven with the conservative beliefs

0:36:29.719 --> 0:36:33.279
<v Speaker 8>that came out of his mid twentieth century childhood, you know,

0:36:33.560 --> 0:36:36.920
<v Speaker 8>ward mobility, putting your nose to the grindstone, pulling yourself

0:36:37.000 --> 0:36:39.839
<v Speaker 8>up by your bootstraps. And he sees, you know, Catholicism

0:36:39.840 --> 0:36:42.680
<v Speaker 8>as a way of like following the rules step by step,

0:36:42.760 --> 0:36:45.880
<v Speaker 8>living a virtuous life according to the precepts of the

0:36:45.920 --> 0:36:48.800
<v Speaker 8>Catholic Church. During that same time, there was another strand,

0:36:48.840 --> 0:36:51.239
<v Speaker 8>and people like Clarence Thomas might be more a part

0:36:51.239 --> 0:36:54.239
<v Speaker 8>of this where a lot of people from very very

0:36:54.239 --> 0:36:56.680
<v Speaker 8>different backgrounds, you know, some of them Jewish, some of

0:36:56.719 --> 0:37:00.880
<v Speaker 8>them from mainline Protestant churches, some of them African became

0:37:01.280 --> 0:37:04.360
<v Speaker 8>Catholic because they believed that Catholicism at the time was

0:37:04.400 --> 0:37:08.040
<v Speaker 8>sort of hardcore. Protestant churches tended to be moving to

0:37:08.080 --> 0:37:10.000
<v Speaker 8>the left, so did reform.

0:37:10.080 --> 0:37:11.280
<v Speaker 4>Judaism was on the rise.

0:37:11.400 --> 0:37:16.000
<v Speaker 8>You know, you had a lot of religion and liberalism combining,

0:37:16.120 --> 0:37:18.640
<v Speaker 8>but the Catholics held firm. So it meant a lot

0:37:18.680 --> 0:37:21.200
<v Speaker 8>in that era when people of the same age as

0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:24.640
<v Speaker 8>Thomas and Alito converted to Catholicism, and a lot of

0:37:24.680 --> 0:37:27.120
<v Speaker 8>that happened with some of the conservative kids at Princeton

0:37:27.440 --> 0:37:30.520
<v Speaker 8>that I and my research went back and interviewed the

0:37:30.520 --> 0:37:32.400
<v Speaker 8>one who was the leader of the Conservatives at Princeton,

0:37:32.400 --> 0:37:34.920
<v Speaker 8>T Harding Jones, became a Catholic. He was a converted

0:37:35.000 --> 0:37:38.080
<v Speaker 8>to Catholicism. So did the Meyer family. Jean Meyer was

0:37:38.080 --> 0:37:40.720
<v Speaker 8>the longtime director of the Federal Society and his father

0:37:40.800 --> 0:37:44.480
<v Speaker 8>had converted to Catholicism that to them represented hardcore.

0:37:44.520 --> 0:37:45.360
<v Speaker 4>It was also William F.

0:37:45.400 --> 0:37:48.359
<v Speaker 8>Buckley was a big influence, and you know, his Catholicism

0:37:48.400 --> 0:37:50.279
<v Speaker 8>was seen as part of what made him a conservative.

0:37:50.480 --> 0:37:51.880
<v Speaker 8>I think people were impressed.

0:37:51.480 --> 0:37:55.320
<v Speaker 1>With that, yes, but also when it comes to abortion,

0:37:55.600 --> 0:38:01.600
<v Speaker 1>Catholicism threatened to need all that otherwise sex of Christianity

0:38:01.680 --> 0:38:02.040
<v Speaker 1>might not.

0:38:02.400 --> 0:38:03.799
<v Speaker 4>But did, especially in that era.

0:38:03.880 --> 0:38:06.320
<v Speaker 8>I mean, nowadays, when we think of the anti abortion movement,

0:38:06.400 --> 0:38:08.320
<v Speaker 8>people will often think of evangelicals.

0:38:08.320 --> 0:38:11.600
<v Speaker 4>But in that era, evangelicals were neutral. They were neutral

0:38:11.640 --> 0:38:12.040
<v Speaker 4>on Roe v.

0:38:12.160 --> 0:38:12.440
<v Speaker 3>Wade.

0:38:12.480 --> 0:38:15.239
<v Speaker 8>They didn't have a position. It was a very different time.

0:38:15.320 --> 0:38:17.920
<v Speaker 8>And that's sort of what was meant by the Catholics

0:38:17.920 --> 0:38:20.080
<v Speaker 8>being hardcore. You know that they were willing to say

0:38:20.400 --> 0:38:23.040
<v Speaker 8>full stop no on abortion, you know, full stop no

0:38:23.120 --> 0:38:25.759
<v Speaker 8>on premarital sex. Premarital sex was a big issue at

0:38:25.880 --> 0:38:29.680
<v Speaker 8>Princeton in that time. You know, contraception was still an

0:38:29.719 --> 0:38:32.000
<v Speaker 8>issue and is, you know today at issue. One of

0:38:32.040 --> 0:38:36.359
<v Speaker 8>the Lydio's most famous opinions, Hobby Lobby, dealt with contraception. Right,

0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:40.719
<v Speaker 8>It's like so, and of course the big Supreme Court

0:38:40.719 --> 0:38:42.840
<v Speaker 8>case they were all referencing was Griswold by Connecticut.

0:38:42.920 --> 0:38:44.840
<v Speaker 4>This was before Roe v. Wade, and that was a

0:38:44.880 --> 0:38:47.760
<v Speaker 4>contraception case. Catholic Church on all.

0:38:47.600 --> 0:38:51.200
<v Speaker 8>These social issues, particularly relating to the bedroom where they

0:38:51.200 --> 0:38:52.120
<v Speaker 8>were hardcore.

0:38:52.320 --> 0:38:55.920
<v Speaker 1>You know. Yeah, Alito continues to be on the court.

0:38:56.160 --> 0:38:58.359
<v Speaker 1>He is not the longest serving member of the court,

0:38:58.400 --> 0:39:02.080
<v Speaker 1>that's Thomas, but he has left a real stamp on

0:39:02.120 --> 0:39:05.319
<v Speaker 1>the courts in a number of different ways. So I'd

0:39:05.320 --> 0:39:08.880
<v Speaker 1>love you talk about recent cases either coming or that

0:39:09.000 --> 0:39:12.520
<v Speaker 1>have been ruled recently where there are Lito cases. You know,

0:39:12.640 --> 0:39:14.440
<v Speaker 1>you see the Alito signature on them.

0:39:14.680 --> 0:39:18.320
<v Speaker 8>The most obvious recent one was the Montgomery County, Maryland

0:39:18.400 --> 0:39:23.200
<v Speaker 8>case where Montgomery County had a curriculum that included story

0:39:23.320 --> 0:39:28.120
<v Speaker 8>books for children and books for classes that included gay characters.

0:39:28.160 --> 0:39:30.280
<v Speaker 8>Just gay characters are sort of part of the normal

0:39:30.320 --> 0:39:33.439
<v Speaker 8>fabric of the story characters who happened to be gay,

0:39:33.719 --> 0:39:36.960
<v Speaker 8>And very initially when they started this curriculum, they included

0:39:37.160 --> 0:39:39.560
<v Speaker 8>like warnings to parents in case parents wanted to pull

0:39:39.640 --> 0:39:42.160
<v Speaker 8>kids out of class or something, because they were worried

0:39:42.200 --> 0:39:44.960
<v Speaker 8>about this, but then quickly changed because they felt that

0:39:45.120 --> 0:39:47.960
<v Speaker 8>it created a stigma for kids who came from families

0:39:47.960 --> 0:39:50.759
<v Speaker 8>with gay parents or other gay gay relatives in there,

0:39:50.840 --> 0:39:53.319
<v Speaker 8>that there was something weird about having some kids pulled

0:39:53.360 --> 0:39:55.280
<v Speaker 8>out of class. So they felt this was not appropriate

0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:58.120
<v Speaker 8>and they stopped doing it. Alito and the Supreme Court's

0:39:58.120 --> 0:40:03.040
<v Speaker 8>conservative majority to say they had to reinstate the warnings

0:40:03.040 --> 0:40:06.360
<v Speaker 8>to parents because it violated the freedom of religion, the

0:40:06.360 --> 0:40:10.200
<v Speaker 8>free exercise of religion of the conservative parents. Now it's

0:40:10.320 --> 0:40:13.600
<v Speaker 8>very much Alito who will say conservative parents are being

0:40:13.600 --> 0:40:17.600
<v Speaker 8>discriminated against, just as you know, some people might contend

0:40:17.800 --> 0:40:21.600
<v Speaker 8>that same sex couples and families led by same sex

0:40:21.640 --> 0:40:25.120
<v Speaker 8>couples are being discriminated against, and this is a common thread.

0:40:25.200 --> 0:40:28.400
<v Speaker 8>He has activated the free exercise of religion clause in

0:40:28.440 --> 0:40:32.120
<v Speaker 8>the Constitution to an extent far greater than other justices

0:40:32.160 --> 0:40:32.520
<v Speaker 8>have seen.

0:40:32.680 --> 0:40:35.000
<v Speaker 4>He has really been the leader in that.

0:40:35.160 --> 0:40:38.920
<v Speaker 8>You see it in cases like Catholic charities in Philadelphia

0:40:39.080 --> 0:40:40.880
<v Speaker 8>excluding gay parents.

0:40:41.239 --> 0:40:44.640
<v Speaker 4>You see it in his decisions even in a First

0:40:44.680 --> 0:40:49.960
<v Speaker 4>Amendment case involving the harassment of soldiers by this Westborough church,

0:40:50.080 --> 0:40:53.120
<v Speaker 4>this radical group or sort of a radical conservative group.

0:40:53.160 --> 0:40:56.640
<v Speaker 8>They were protested military funerals. He sees the average American

0:40:56.840 --> 0:41:01.439
<v Speaker 8>of conservative values as being discriminate in the same way

0:41:01.440 --> 0:41:06.839
<v Speaker 8>that other people would see racial minorities and LGBTQ community

0:41:07.200 --> 0:41:11.279
<v Speaker 8>and foreign born people to be discriminated against. You know,

0:41:11.360 --> 0:41:14.200
<v Speaker 8>he's pulling up the other side of the ledger right.

0:41:14.120 --> 0:41:19.200
<v Speaker 1>So he's trying to protect right wingers from discrimination. Keep

0:41:19.239 --> 0:41:19.680
<v Speaker 1>going on that.

0:41:20.080 --> 0:41:22.640
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, absolutely, I mean he believes that this is part

0:41:22.640 --> 0:41:25.279
<v Speaker 8>of free exercise of religion. I think that it's more

0:41:25.719 --> 0:41:29.319
<v Speaker 8>conservative traditional values that he imputes to religion. Now, not

0:41:29.400 --> 0:41:31.600
<v Speaker 8>in every case, like the hobby lobby case, which was

0:41:31.600 --> 0:41:34.200
<v Speaker 8>the contraception case. It was a real, you know, very

0:41:34.200 --> 0:41:37.879
<v Speaker 8>conservative Christian family that owned the business. But I think

0:41:37.920 --> 0:41:40.200
<v Speaker 8>that he feels like free exercise of religion should be

0:41:40.680 --> 0:41:43.560
<v Speaker 8>every bit as active a clause of the Supreme Court

0:41:43.600 --> 0:41:46.399
<v Speaker 8>and as a source for Supreme Court decision making as the.

0:41:46.760 --> 0:41:47.840
<v Speaker 4>Equal protection clause.

0:41:48.040 --> 0:41:53.480
<v Speaker 8>He would say, essentially, conservative traditional minded Americans deserve protection too.

0:41:53.760 --> 0:41:56.640
<v Speaker 1>So I think of him as just a partisan hack.

0:41:56.920 --> 0:41:59.240
<v Speaker 1>Am I wrong, and tell me why.

0:41:59.640 --> 0:42:02.000
<v Speaker 4>I think that he has evolved over time.

0:42:02.320 --> 0:42:05.640
<v Speaker 8>I think that he is very driven by the principles

0:42:05.640 --> 0:42:09.640
<v Speaker 8>that he developed in his childhood growing up just outside

0:42:09.680 --> 0:42:12.680
<v Speaker 8>of Trenton, New Jersey, in the middle twentieth century, that

0:42:12.800 --> 0:42:15.600
<v Speaker 8>heightened sense of Americanism. I mean, that's where the loyalty

0:42:15.640 --> 0:42:18.440
<v Speaker 8>to Americans who follow the rules, the traditional values and

0:42:18.440 --> 0:42:19.560
<v Speaker 8>things like that come from.

0:42:19.560 --> 0:42:20.800
<v Speaker 4>I think it also comes from.

0:42:20.600 --> 0:42:23.560
<v Speaker 8>Like the Cold War era schools and culture that was

0:42:24.040 --> 0:42:26.759
<v Speaker 8>preaching the greatness of American freedom and things like that.

0:42:26.920 --> 0:42:29.160
<v Speaker 8>May I have to mention your grandfather's novels that I

0:42:29.200 --> 0:42:32.480
<v Speaker 8>read when I was a kid, too, who wrote about American.

0:42:32.480 --> 0:42:34.319
<v Speaker 4>History in a very positive way.

0:42:34.480 --> 0:42:37.000
<v Speaker 8>I think sam Alito was influenced by those messages, very

0:42:37.160 --> 0:42:41.000
<v Speaker 8>very sharply. I think that in recent years many people

0:42:41.040 --> 0:42:44.280
<v Speaker 8>have noticed that his personality has changed, that he's become

0:42:44.280 --> 0:42:44.960
<v Speaker 8>more outspoken.

0:42:45.000 --> 0:42:47.360
<v Speaker 4>He was a shy person. Now he's an outspoken person.

0:42:47.480 --> 0:42:50.480
<v Speaker 8>He's become a grim and bitter negative in a lot

0:42:50.520 --> 0:42:54.880
<v Speaker 8>of his questions. You know, his descents have become more

0:42:55.440 --> 0:43:00.560
<v Speaker 8>angry and frustrated. Even though he's winning right the majority

0:43:00.560 --> 0:43:02.560
<v Speaker 8>on most cases a lot, yet he seems like the

0:43:02.640 --> 0:43:03.960
<v Speaker 8>angry man on the court.

0:43:04.239 --> 0:43:07.319
<v Speaker 4>That's not entirely uncommon for older justices. They just they

0:43:07.600 --> 0:43:08.320
<v Speaker 4>sort of seem.

0:43:08.120 --> 0:43:09.799
<v Speaker 8>To throw caution to the win when they get older

0:43:09.800 --> 0:43:11.319
<v Speaker 8>and become grumpier in their own way.

0:43:11.480 --> 0:43:14.120
<v Speaker 4>But I think that the charge that he is a

0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:18.279
<v Speaker 4>partisan has some validity, especially when you look at the

0:43:18.320 --> 0:43:23.279
<v Speaker 4>way that he responded to Joe Biden's executive decisions in

0:43:23.400 --> 0:43:27.440
<v Speaker 4>areas like immigration and student loans, compared to the way

0:43:27.480 --> 0:43:32.400
<v Speaker 4>he's responded to Trump's executive decisions in areas like USAID

0:43:32.960 --> 0:43:34.800
<v Speaker 4>and immigration in other areas.

0:43:35.200 --> 0:43:41.680
<v Speaker 1>I want you to talk about where this goes. We're

0:43:41.680 --> 0:43:45.840
<v Speaker 1>coming up on court season every year, like May and June.

0:43:45.840 --> 0:43:49.439
<v Speaker 1>I you know, beginning of May, I start to get

0:43:49.440 --> 0:43:51.960
<v Speaker 1>like that dread because you know they're going to radically

0:43:51.960 --> 0:43:55.040
<v Speaker 1>remake the country. There's a lot of anxiety about the

0:43:55.120 --> 0:44:00.279
<v Speaker 1>Voting Rights Act John Roberts's you know favorite Pinota. Do

0:44:00.320 --> 0:44:03.080
<v Speaker 1>you see that is where this is going? Like and

0:44:03.120 --> 0:44:04.440
<v Speaker 1>make it make sense with Alito?

0:44:04.719 --> 0:44:06.520
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, Well, I mean there are two different strands, and

0:44:06.560 --> 0:44:08.120
<v Speaker 8>I think this is an ongoing thing. I mean we're

0:44:08.120 --> 0:44:09.759
<v Speaker 8>going to see a lot this term. I mean, we

0:44:09.800 --> 0:44:12.040
<v Speaker 8>have birthright citizenship just being argued.

0:44:12.080 --> 0:44:15.600
<v Speaker 1>Right, but birthwaite citizenship seems like the case they put

0:44:15.600 --> 0:44:17.799
<v Speaker 1>on the dock to make people.

0:44:17.520 --> 0:44:21.400
<v Speaker 8>Find well, yes, I mean it seems easy, especially when

0:44:21.440 --> 0:44:24.600
<v Speaker 8>you consider that the conservatives believe in the plain language

0:44:24.600 --> 0:44:26.680
<v Speaker 8>of the amendment, and the plain language of the Amendment

0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:28.520
<v Speaker 8>if you look to start with a playing language, like

0:44:28.520 --> 0:44:32.239
<v Speaker 8>an originalist would say, does strongly suggest but then this

0:44:32.280 --> 0:44:33.839
<v Speaker 8>is going to be a testinally of what you were

0:44:33.840 --> 0:44:37.200
<v Speaker 8>saying about partisanship, especially for someone like Aledo. I mean,

0:44:37.280 --> 0:44:39.920
<v Speaker 8>this is a real question Alito. Is he a principled

0:44:39.960 --> 0:44:42.600
<v Speaker 8>originalist or is he a conservative who wants a conservative

0:44:42.640 --> 0:44:46.200
<v Speaker 8>outcome and wants to give maximum discretion to a president

0:44:46.320 --> 0:44:49.040
<v Speaker 8>although it seems like a Republican president more than a

0:44:49.080 --> 0:44:50.080
<v Speaker 8>democratic president.

0:44:50.120 --> 0:44:54.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we've seen this in like previous Supreme Court seasons,

0:44:54.400 --> 0:44:57.640
<v Speaker 1>let's say, where they take a few cases that are

0:44:57.680 --> 0:45:01.600
<v Speaker 1>so out of the mainstreams I guess, to show that

0:45:01.680 --> 0:45:05.440
<v Speaker 1>they still do, theoretically at least believe in some norms.

0:45:05.719 --> 0:45:06.640
<v Speaker 4>Well, I know, I.

0:45:06.600 --> 0:45:08.640
<v Speaker 8>Think this is a real norm. I mean, birthright citizenship

0:45:08.680 --> 0:45:10.319
<v Speaker 8>is going to matter to millions of people. This is

0:45:10.360 --> 0:45:13.480
<v Speaker 8>a big, big deal, big big big Yeah.

0:45:13.520 --> 0:45:15.120
<v Speaker 1>But I don't think I think this is one of

0:45:15.160 --> 0:45:17.719
<v Speaker 1>those cases they take to show that they still can

0:45:17.960 --> 0:45:20.040
<v Speaker 1>decide cases in a normal way.

0:45:20.280 --> 0:45:22.160
<v Speaker 8>I think that it's going to be more serious than that,

0:45:22.360 --> 0:45:26.160
<v Speaker 8>Especially is the next two years unfold because the conservative

0:45:26.200 --> 0:45:28.000
<v Speaker 8>legal movement, Let's put it this way, the conservtive legal

0:45:28.000 --> 0:45:30.640
<v Speaker 8>movement is the only four strong enough to reign in Trump.

0:45:30.760 --> 0:45:32.520
<v Speaker 8>I'll go that far to say that even if the

0:45:32.520 --> 0:45:35.480
<v Speaker 8>Democrats take over the US House, you will have Donald

0:45:35.560 --> 0:45:39.280
<v Speaker 8>Trump stretching his executive authority and what he will claim

0:45:39.440 --> 0:45:42.600
<v Speaker 8>is the full extent of his powers, but which Democrats

0:45:42.600 --> 0:45:45.640
<v Speaker 8>and many others will claim are way exceeding his powers,

0:45:45.719 --> 0:45:48.279
<v Speaker 8>way exceeding his powers. It will fall to the conservative

0:45:48.280 --> 0:45:50.480
<v Speaker 8>dominated Supreme Court to renin him in It's not just

0:45:50.560 --> 0:45:53.759
<v Speaker 8>the birthright citizens chipcase. How about the Federal Reserve case

0:45:53.920 --> 0:45:56.239
<v Speaker 8>that hits on a very different level, but that's a

0:45:56.440 --> 0:45:58.640
<v Speaker 8>very very important executive power case.

0:45:58.800 --> 0:46:01.680
<v Speaker 1>What about the tariff's case. So he lost on the tariffs,

0:46:01.960 --> 0:46:05.759
<v Speaker 1>all those companies sued, but he's still doing the tariffs. Well, yes,

0:46:06.000 --> 0:46:09.480
<v Speaker 1>but he's backing down in some ways, right, Yeah.

0:46:09.200 --> 0:46:11.480
<v Speaker 8>But it's putting the tariffs sort of a path to

0:46:11.560 --> 0:46:14.200
<v Speaker 8>extinction a little bit because the law that he's operating

0:46:14.239 --> 0:46:16.200
<v Speaker 8>under now has a time limit on it. That's why

0:46:16.239 --> 0:46:18.520
<v Speaker 8>I would say that. But I think that the tariff's

0:46:18.560 --> 0:46:20.359
<v Speaker 8>case was an important rebuke to Trump. And if you're

0:46:20.400 --> 0:46:24.279
<v Speaker 8>one of these conservative justices who lives in this conservative ecosystem,

0:46:24.320 --> 0:46:28.239
<v Speaker 8>who talks only to conservative media, who has become more

0:46:28.280 --> 0:46:31.640
<v Speaker 8>insulated over time as many of them have breaking with

0:46:31.719 --> 0:46:34.200
<v Speaker 8>Trump on something where Donald Trump is furious. He's out

0:46:34.200 --> 0:46:36.839
<v Speaker 8>there screaming at them. You know, he's condemning them. They're

0:46:36.920 --> 0:46:39.600
<v Speaker 8>terrible people, They're awful and all that. Once you've broken

0:46:39.680 --> 0:46:42.360
<v Speaker 8>with him, once it becomes easier to break with him again.

0:46:42.480 --> 0:46:45.000
<v Speaker 8>So then you have birthright citizenship, and then you have

0:46:45.320 --> 0:46:46.280
<v Speaker 8>the Federal Reserve.

0:46:46.560 --> 0:46:48.480
<v Speaker 1>But Alito did not break with Trump.

0:46:48.800 --> 0:46:51.120
<v Speaker 8>Alito did not break with Trump. So yes, we're talking

0:46:51.120 --> 0:46:53.000
<v Speaker 8>about Alito here. I would say this.

0:46:52.920 --> 0:46:53.879
<v Speaker 4>Will be a test for leader.

0:46:53.920 --> 0:46:56.160
<v Speaker 8>Look if come June, I mean, I know the case

0:46:56.200 --> 0:46:58.160
<v Speaker 8>is being argued this week, we'll see all the different

0:46:58.200 --> 0:47:00.720
<v Speaker 8>contours play out. But if you know, if the decision

0:47:00.760 --> 0:47:02.840
<v Speaker 8>comes down and it's you know, six to three or

0:47:02.920 --> 0:47:05.520
<v Speaker 8>five to four, and let's say Roberts and Barrett join

0:47:05.600 --> 0:47:09.600
<v Speaker 8>with the liberals to assert birthright citizenship or something like that,

0:47:09.760 --> 0:47:12.840
<v Speaker 8>you know you will say, wow, you know, Sam Alito

0:47:12.880 --> 0:47:15.279
<v Speaker 8>really is sticking with a Republican.

0:47:14.880 --> 0:47:17.239
<v Speaker 4>Side on these things. You know, he's.

0:47:16.800 --> 0:47:21.400
<v Speaker 8>Looking hard for reasons to defend Trump's executive order. On

0:47:21.440 --> 0:47:23.600
<v Speaker 8>the other hand, as you were suggesting, if it was

0:47:23.640 --> 0:47:25.719
<v Speaker 8>a more sleeping decision, if it was like a nine

0:47:25.760 --> 0:47:28.680
<v Speaker 8>to nothing decision, that's a powerful reduke to Trump. And

0:47:29.040 --> 0:47:31.600
<v Speaker 8>it also is you know, more than a meaningless fig leaf.

0:47:31.640 --> 0:47:32.879
<v Speaker 8>You know, as you were saying, the kind of case

0:47:32.920 --> 0:47:35.000
<v Speaker 8>they take just to try to you know, the exception

0:47:35.080 --> 0:47:36.880
<v Speaker 8>that proves the rule that they're with Trump most of

0:47:36.880 --> 0:47:38.879
<v Speaker 8>the time, but once in a while they'll split with him.

0:47:38.920 --> 0:47:40.959
<v Speaker 8>Trump isn't the kind of person who even tolerates people

0:47:40.960 --> 0:47:43.640
<v Speaker 8>splitting with him once. So I think it would be

0:47:43.680 --> 0:47:45.920
<v Speaker 8>a strong statement if they were nine to nothing on

0:47:45.960 --> 0:47:47.000
<v Speaker 8>birthright citizenship.

0:47:47.239 --> 0:47:50.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, we will see, we will see. Thank you

0:47:50.200 --> 0:47:53.800
<v Speaker 1>so much, Peter for coming on. This is totally fascinating.

0:47:53.680 --> 0:47:55.360
<v Speaker 4>Excellent revenge for the sixties.

0:47:55.520 --> 0:47:58.120
<v Speaker 8>Sam Alito on the triumph of the conservative legal movement

0:47:58.160 --> 0:48:04.280
<v Speaker 8>at a bookstore near you. Thank you, no moment, slut

0:48:04.600 --> 0:48:05.800
<v Speaker 8>Jesse Cannon.

0:48:06.320 --> 0:48:09.839
<v Speaker 2>So may another case of judges doing the good work

0:48:09.880 --> 0:48:12.520
<v Speaker 2>for us. Here a judge has paused Trump's demand for

0:48:12.640 --> 0:48:15.080
<v Speaker 2>student race data in seventeen states.

0:48:15.360 --> 0:48:18.560
<v Speaker 1>Why does Donald Trump want student race data?

0:48:18.760 --> 0:48:20.920
<v Speaker 3>I believe it's because DEI and Woke.

0:48:21.280 --> 0:48:25.799
<v Speaker 1>This administration's crusade against DEI is dangerous. Letitia James, New

0:48:25.880 --> 0:48:28.759
<v Speaker 1>York's Attorney general, someone Donald Trump is also trying to

0:48:28.800 --> 0:48:31.480
<v Speaker 1>prosecute for mortgage fraud. Student should not have to live

0:48:31.480 --> 0:48:33.680
<v Speaker 1>in fear that their personal data would be handed over

0:48:33.719 --> 0:48:35.920
<v Speaker 1>to the federal government, just as schools should not have

0:48:36.000 --> 0:48:39.360
<v Speaker 1>to scramble to produce years of sensitive information to satisfy

0:48:39.360 --> 0:48:45.880
<v Speaker 1>an arbitrary and unlawful demand. Linda McMahon, the Education Secretary,

0:48:46.560 --> 0:48:50.480
<v Speaker 1>said that has previously said the policy, which was ordered

0:48:50.640 --> 0:48:53.040
<v Speaker 1>by President Trump in August, was a way to ensure

0:48:53.080 --> 0:48:56.839
<v Speaker 1>that colleges were not considering race and admissions. I mean,

0:48:57.040 --> 0:48:59.600
<v Speaker 1>this is so insane. They're just trying to bully colleges

0:48:59.640 --> 0:49:04.080
<v Speaker 1>into not doing di It's so craven. And it's also like,

0:49:04.200 --> 0:49:09.040
<v Speaker 1>what's the opposite of anti anti racism? Guess uh?

0:49:09.120 --> 0:49:09.680
<v Speaker 3>Is it woke?

0:49:10.160 --> 0:49:11.400
<v Speaker 1>It's racism?

0:49:11.640 --> 0:49:12.640
<v Speaker 3>Oh damn it.

0:49:13.440 --> 0:49:17.799
<v Speaker 1>That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

0:49:18.120 --> 0:49:23.560
<v Speaker 1>every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best

0:49:23.640 --> 0:49:27.960
<v Speaker 1>minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

0:49:27.960 --> 0:49:31.040
<v Speaker 1>you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

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<v Speaker 1>and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.