1 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: This podcast is a dramatization of fictionalized events that contains 2 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: culturally insensitive language and violence. Michelle, Okay, yeah, come on here. 3 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 1: Thank you so much because here's okay, Yeah, that's fine. 4 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: You need any waterying? Actually fine? Thank you. Last night 5 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: I was thinking about canceling all you And it's not 6 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: that I don't want to do this. It's just a 7 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: lot to revisit. Everything has happened a little over twelve 8 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: months ago, an eighteen year old African American young man 9 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: named Niles Hayes was driving a family friends luxury vehicle 10 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: when he was stopped for a routine traffic violation. Officially, 11 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: it was for an illegal lane change, but most likely 12 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: he was stopped for another common defense d w B 13 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: driving while black. The police officers that pulled him over, 14 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: Sergeant Place, along with his partner, Officer Webb, antagonized Niles 15 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,479 Speaker 1: and things escalate quickly. The two cops then forcibly removed 16 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,759 Speaker 1: Niles from the problems and proceed to beat him into submission. 17 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: Niles father, Gerald Hayes, who was working construction nearby, sees 18 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: his son in peril and instinctively rushes into the fray 19 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: to protect him. More violence ensues and after a short scuffle, 20 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: Gerald could see up her hand. But Gerald's intervention of 21 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: the police attack was only the first of many high 22 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: stakes decisions he would make on this long day and 23 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: night that would go on to captivate a nation. But 24 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: the situation made a dramatic turn when convicted Felon and 25 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: father Gerald Hayes took matters and Gerald assaulted the police officers, 26 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: who appeared to be using an excessive amount. Me, the 27 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: most important thing is that law enforcement do the right thing, 28 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: and we can be afraid to call this what it is. 29 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: This is terrorist. Oh my god, come on and being inflammatory. 30 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: I'm journalist and author Kate Bell, and you're listening to 31 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 1: hashtag matter Part one. Within hours of the police stop, 32 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: footage of the entire altercation between Niles and the arresting officers, 33 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: including the part where we see his father Gerald Russian 34 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: to fight the cops off, gets posted online and it 35 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: goes viral. The response was so massive that it resulted 36 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: in the most commented on threat in the history of 37 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: social media. I just watched the video showing what the 38 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: cops it to that boy in l A and I'm 39 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: literally sick to my stomach. I got a message for 40 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,679 Speaker 1: all you Black Lives Matter Colin capernators out there, get 41 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: a fucking job already. Hey look, man, I see that 42 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: somebody on hands was talking real reckless about cat. Go 43 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: sit your punk ass down. Also, I want to say 44 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: rest in power to Nils and to Gerald. Come one 45 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: father to another. No man should have to go through 46 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: what you're going through. Guys, this is clearly a warning 47 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: sign for all real Americans to get ready. Gerald. Hey, 48 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: he's got him shook, bro. That's on. But out of 49 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: the millions of comments online in this endless see of punditry, 50 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: something about this next post I'm going to play for 51 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: you by social media influencer At Wilkin. Sassi has stuck 52 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: with me the most. Here we go with this ship again. 53 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: We got video evidence that shows the truth. But the police, 54 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: the police, unions, the d A, and the media is 55 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: gonna twist everything up and get it wrong. Generald is 56 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: a hero for taking Madison to his own hands. And 57 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: if you cannot say that, they're I'm not fucking with you. 58 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: They gotta stout killing us, y'all. Why the fund do 59 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: I even have to say this shit? So what is 60 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: it about? At woken Sassy's post that I keep coming 61 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: back to. Ultimately, I think it boils down to the 62 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: fact that people's perspective of Gerald Hayes is so extreme 63 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: that it drew a line in the sand. Because for 64 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 1: a lot of folks, what you think of Gerald tells 65 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: them everything they need to know about you. Either you're 66 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: on their side or you're on the other side, with 67 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: zero tolerance for anything in between, which brings me to this. 68 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: As polarizing as Gerald's actions were that day, shouldn't we 69 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: get to know the man at the center of it all? 70 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: Because beyond the media snippets and sound bites, what really 71 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: drove him to make the extreme choices he did that day? 72 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: And how did he have the constitution to follow through 73 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: with it? And above all, I guess I want us 74 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: all to revisit this remarkable day's events and gather a 75 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: more informed decision about what we witnessed. Because if at 76 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: woken Sassy is right that this is one of those 77 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: events you have to chew sides on, it leaves someone 78 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: like me, who was split on how I feel about Gerald, 79 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: to have to finally answer one simple question, is he 80 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: a hero or is he a villain? Now? I'm not 81 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: naive in thinking that most people don't already have a 82 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: fully developed opinion on the man, or that my perspective, 83 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: as objective as I tried to be, isn't impacted by 84 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: forty five years of being white in America. But here's 85 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: why I think it's worth taken another look. The opinions 86 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: we hold may not be totally informed. There are literally 87 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: thousands of hours of audio recordings, phone footage, video surveillance, bodycams, transcripts, 88 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: and more of what happened that day. Plus I'm in 89 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: the process of interviewing all the pivotal players who had 90 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: an impact on what would eventually transpire, and me and 91 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: my team are stitching together all these sources into one 92 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: timeline with the hope that we can assemble a fully 93 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: rendered view of Gerald Hayes, the harpenter, the single father, 94 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: the ex convict, the man. Because if we really want 95 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: to understand what went on that day, we have to 96 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: get inside Gerald's head. And in order to do this right, 97 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: the first thing we have to do is go back 98 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: to the beginning, the part you don't know, m h. 99 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: We're listening to Gerald Hayes's pre dawned workout routine by 100 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: all accounts, Gerald Hayes starts this day like any other, 101 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: recording himself as he rotates through an insanely intense assortment 102 00:06:51,880 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 1: of push ups, crunches, and sit ups. Yeah, where's my 103 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: son sleep? You know he will be a hard mess 104 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: when you go off to school. I'll be fine, ain't. No, 105 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: Gloody said that you ain't gonna be fine and never 106 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: had noble. Don't, don't, don't get cute with me, he no. 107 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: Now to Mamma Launcher, Niles had been with his dad 108 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: three days straight on this new schedule we set up, 109 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: but he wasn't returning to my text or my call, 110 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: so I pulled up at five three in the morning. 111 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: This conversation is from my first interview with Niles is 112 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: mother Michelle Hayes, And let me just say for the 113 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: record that in my twenty three year career, I've never 114 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: met a woman who's experienced real tragedy who's displayed more 115 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: grace and strength than she did throughout this process. Michelle 116 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: has got a lot of moxie and she's a straight shooter. 117 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: So Gerald convinced me to flip our co parent arrangement. 118 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: He said he needed to teach now some man skills, 119 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: but it's tough when you're about to lose your baby 120 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: to adulthood. And then I pretty much go ahead and 121 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: agree to give up the last three months between high 122 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: school and college so he could spend more time with 123 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: his father. So you weren't okay with the arrangement. I mean, 124 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: intellectually I was fine with it. But more than that, 125 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: a mother knows her child. And as big, smart, artistic 126 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: and social as Niles was, you know, he was super naive, 127 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 1: like a lot of boys nowadays, about things like change 128 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: and attire or even like start a barbecue fire. So 129 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: as much as I wanted to keep Niles close before 130 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: he left for school, I knew that Gerald was right. 131 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: Plus there was always that thing between both of them 132 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 1: were they always wanted to make up for lost time. 133 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: And when you say make up for lost time, you're 134 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 1: referring to Gerald being away at prison. M Yeah, how 135 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: was that on Niles rough Kate. Gerald left when Niles 136 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: was five, and he was gone, so he was twelve 137 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: and a half. So yeah, that wasn't easy for the 138 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: first year. So Niles would say things like, you know, 139 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: is Daddy coming home today? And I would tell him 140 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: Daddy's on a work trip. But finally I had to 141 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: just tell him the truth. What made you give in? 142 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: Kids are smart kates. I realized he was just giving 143 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: me an opportunity to come out of a lie. Anyway, 144 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 1: from there it got better for both of us. Did 145 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: you communicate a lot with Gerald all he was in prison? 146 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yes, Gerald was just on this mission 147 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: to be the best freaking father on the planet. I 148 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: mean he used to annoy the heck out of me 149 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: when he was away, sending all kinds of letters with 150 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: magazine articles, book suggestions. So basically he was telling me 151 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: how to be a mother from where he was And 152 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: at first I took offense to it and would be like, look, 153 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: it is too hard being a single parent raising a child, 154 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: and you just adding extra work. And finally he said, Michelle, 155 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: you're not You're not alone. We're doing this together. I'm 156 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: doing everything I can. So he really he stayed in 157 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: it a hundred percent. And then when he came home, 158 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: you know, he was still just on that mission to 159 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: be the best father to his son that he could be. 160 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: But Gerald doesn't really do moderation, so you know, he 161 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: had to be a role model times, a hundred times 162 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: a thousand. So basically we he had done such a 163 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: good job with novels over the years. I kind of 164 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: wanted to, you know, reward him, reward both of them 165 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: with m hm. Now when your mother rings, yourself, hither back. Sorry, 166 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: I don't want any forced apologies. Why don't you go 167 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,959 Speaker 1: show what you've been working on. You're supposed to be 168 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: a surprise, show me what. Just go get it. It 169 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: looks great now. We're making this jewelry box for you. 170 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: I just don't need to varnish it and put lining 171 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 1: on the inside. You made this for me. Oh this 172 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: is mom. Don't cry. You want to say it the 173 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: jewelry box? Yes? Please? And Niles did this by hand yep. 174 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: Oh wow mm A detail in the carving is amazing. 175 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: I know that was nice. Amazing m hmm. Don't go Gerald, 176 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: you're not gonna say grace on m Father, God, we 177 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: thank you for this meal. We thank you for our health, 178 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: and we thank you for our sin. We ask that 179 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: you protect and look over him as he carries on 180 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: in his journey to college. Father, we ask that you 181 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: continue to shine your light on Gerald so that he 182 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: may remain steadfast in your light, never to return to 183 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: the dark days. Amen. Amen, Amen. The video recorders stopped rolling. 184 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: Seconds later. I asked Michelle if she recalled anything else 185 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: that stood out from that morning, anything that I should know. 186 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: Here's what she said. We didn't need like that much 187 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: hardly ever, but I'm super glad that we got to 188 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: have that moment together as a family. After breakfast, Gerald 189 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: left the kitchen to take a shower and get ready 190 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: for work. And when I said goodbye to Niles, I 191 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: remember hugging him and kissing his cheeks like I used 192 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: to when he was little, and he didn't stop me. 193 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: That was nice. And was that the last time you 194 00:13:39,760 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: were with Nils alive? Yeah? Yeah, h. Shortly after Michelle 195 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: left the apartment, the next person to see Gerald and 196 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: Niles that morning was a lively character who goes by 197 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: the name Big h. His government name is Alvin Cox, 198 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: but nobody dares call him that. Why did they call 199 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: you big Age? Back when uh I got put on 200 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: the set, Age was my big home. So all of 201 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: the old g's at that time started calling me little Age. 202 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: So how did you go from little age to big Age? 203 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: I put in that work, motherfucker's started hearing about me. 204 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: Next thing, you know, I went from little age to 205 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: big age. Sign of respect. He's not lying about that either. 206 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: You can tell by the way people's body language would 207 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: have changes when they're in the presence of big Age 208 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: that he is very well respected or feared. So you 209 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: saw Niles and Gerald the morning of day that ship 210 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: went down. Yeah, I sink both of them. They came 211 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: out right there over there by the light blue apartment complex. 212 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, see that pathway that cuts between those two 213 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: big patches of brown down grass. Gerald always parked his 214 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: old beat up assholes will Bill right there by the street. 215 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: That was his spot. And I was posted up in 216 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: my ride directly across the street, and he gave me 217 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: like a little what up? Not did Gerald say anything 218 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: to you at all? I don't think you really like 219 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: chopping up with me too much. I've been knowing Gerald forever, 220 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: like before he was reformed this ship. You know, we 221 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: came up together. I don't think he liked someone like 222 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: me seeing the way he was. And how was that 223 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: like normal? Because he knows I know he ain't normal. 224 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: He was just Clark Kentny Wait, what what's Clark Kenning 225 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: that like? Around here where we come from. When someone 226 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: holds it down for the set, people respect that. Like 227 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: you know about how he got that limp? No, well 228 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: that's I think a big part of oh Gerald is 229 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: the MP. Yeah, all that, the lamp, the attack at 230 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: Solid Dad really just this time at prison in general, 231 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: this institution has always had a bit of a reputation, 232 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: unfortunately for being a pretty violent place. That's William Powell. 233 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: He's a CEO a correctional training facility more commonly known 234 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: as Solidad State Prison in California. Gerald did his bid 235 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: during time back when black and brown relations were really bad. 236 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: They're always really bad, but they were worse than really 237 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: bad when he was here. Can you tell me about 238 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: the time when he was attacked? Which attack must have 239 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: happened at least a dozen times? Gerald is what we 240 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: call a triple OSI. You know, when you've got power, 241 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:54,479 Speaker 1: especially on the answer, people are going to test you. Um, 242 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: big age. I've heard of an o G, But what's 243 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: a triple o G. That's another way of saying that 244 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: her end things in here. Man. To his credit, he 245 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: did a pretty good job. Too strange to hear you say, 246 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 1: it's so casually say what uh? I don't know. It 247 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: just seems sort of counterintuitive that a CEO would admit 248 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: to the fact that an inmate ran things. I agree, 249 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: it is. It's it's counterintuitive. It's also a reality in prison. 250 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: A social hierarchy's going to develop among inmates and even 251 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: the guards too. It's just human nature, you know. He 252 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: he probably could have been a grand chess master or 253 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: or have worked for the Rand Corporation or something like that. 254 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: Very much a strategic thinker, but you know, it's also 255 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 1: very violent. Short fuse you look, I'm not a psychologist, 256 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: but there's probably some personality disorder there was he ever 257 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: diagnosed in therapy. His sentence was as diagnosis. No, No, 258 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: we don't. We don't have resources like that. And why 259 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: is that funding? People don't give a ship And you know, 260 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: personality disorders are almost the keyest survival here. If you 261 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 1: don't have one, you might be better off developed with one. 262 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: Like I said, prison is a violent place. Yeah, so okay, 263 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: back to that. There's a story I've heard about Latino 264 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: gang members attacking Gerald. Oh you want to know about that. 265 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: What you have to understand, Kate, if that is the 266 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: numbers game in prison, that's why for the most part, 267 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: White boys stick together, Mexicans and Central America stick together, 268 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: and Nigga's stick together. Well, not all the time, but 269 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: when it's go time is to give best interest to 270 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: know what side you want. Gerald was barn none the 271 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 1: most effective leader I've seen, making bloods and crips, squats 272 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: whatever beasts. They had a lot of people around here 273 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: didn't like that, so it was put on it. Can 274 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: you describe the incident for me? Gerald is being transferred 275 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 1: from this shoe special How's unit to d blocker, So 276 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: it was basically a lame duck duck. Lame duck is 277 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: one of prisoners alone and easy to pray on, no protection. 278 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: Here's the play. Three essays in the line. It makes 279 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: being moved in one direction and gee and some random masks. 280 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: Nobody's coming out to home. It's going an opposite way. 281 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 1: But Gerald, he's smart as fun, so we already didn't 282 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: pet game, and he could tell some ship was about 283 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: to go down. All right here Kate as the first 284 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,959 Speaker 1: sound pulls out of his ship and steps up to attack, 285 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: Gerald just pops him in the face and disarms all right. 286 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: As Gerald takes to share from dude in the front, 287 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: the other two essays squeezed down on Jee and starts 288 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: shaky from behind, like bang bang. So what Gerald is 289 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: getting hit? He staffed through in the front, kind of 290 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: swoops his body around and use him as a shield 291 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: from the dudes hit him in the back. And now 292 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: they got stopped because they don't want to hit down home. 293 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: That was their big mistake. Adn't run away. The best 294 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: thing you can do is make the person attacking you 295 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: hesitate the levels of playing field. It's like that was 296 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: all he needed to regroup sheet he went from prey 297 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: to predator. So what happened to the guys who attacked him? 298 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: One dig the other two were seriously injured. But it's 299 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: not like Gerald made it out unscathed. He got worked 300 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: over pretty bad in the incident. And I believe he 301 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: left and paralyzed and half the one leg and he 302 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: lost the kidney. And so wait, I'm a bit confused, 303 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: Like I know the other inmates started the fight, But 304 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: did Gerald get into legal trouble at all? Check this? 305 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: She represented himself and beat all charges, case dismissed, and 306 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: that that's just some ghetto superhero legendary ship. I mean, 307 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: it was self defense. And when he gets attacked like that, 308 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: anyone deserves to be able to protect themselves. What's crazy 309 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: is most dudes would have resume. Jeez, they come back 310 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: to the streets and you know, use that reputation to 311 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 1: you know, make a little money, handle things, run ship. 312 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: But it's almost like he said, Okay, I paid enough 313 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: dudes for me and my son, and now I'm out 314 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 1: the game. So it was just like, no, Gerald was untouchable. 315 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: That's a given, but so was Nowls. How do you 316 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: mean like nobody was gonna pressure now Is to claim 317 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: and set of join the game, because then you knew 318 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: what that meant. I'll have to deal with that dude 319 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: Gerald exactly, and no one wanted to see Gerald have 320 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: to come out of retirement and getting that ass. So 321 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: what was Nails like? Different? Like rock star different though, 322 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: but you know we don't really do rock stars in 323 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: the hood. Do you feel me? Can you give me 324 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: an example of how Niles stood out? M let me see, 325 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: Nowles might come out that front door wearing a full 326 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: length pink overcoat and matching headscarf, some e centric type ship. 327 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: The nigga was just other. But all of the young 328 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: homies really looked up to him, And was that because 329 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: of Gerald's reputation. No, no, no, Niles was just special. 330 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: He was his own man. And if you really want 331 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 1: to know, I think they saw something in him that 332 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: they wished they could be, but that they knew they 333 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 1: could never be. They knew he was going places like 334 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: far from the matter of fact, anybody ever tell you 335 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: about that Gucci A No, what's up? Yeah, the Guccia. 336 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: I'll still be using that ship to this day. This 337 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: is Tray Mac talking. He and Niles were best friends 338 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: going back to second grade. From all accounts, whether it's 339 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: Michelle or Big Age, these two were almost inseparable. Me 340 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: and some of the other homies from around the way 341 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: started getting papered up off a hustle or whatever, you know, 342 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: doing what we do and with that extra cash, we 343 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,479 Speaker 1: were going shopping. Right. Wait, when you say hustling, does 344 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: that include Niles. Niles was a hustle for show, but 345 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: he didn't get down like we did it. How do 346 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: you mean like Niles would never do anything that would 347 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 1: get him in trouble. He was never gonna break the 348 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: law because you know it's possible beyond him. His mom's 349 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 1: too Gucci. Yeah, so me and some of the other 350 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: friends are making a little money, and we started buying 351 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: our Kasa fly ship, a lot of Louis Findy and 352 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: a gang of Gucci. But Niles was like, no, you're 353 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: wasting all your money. And at first we would be 354 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: like get out here with that ship there. One day 355 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: he got fed up and was like, I I'm gonna 356 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: show you. After that, nobody saw this dude for like 357 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: a weekend. Then he pops up on the Monday, like, hey, 358 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: put this thing on program on your phone. Put what 359 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: on my phone? The Gucci app, but it's spelled g 360 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: O O C H I. Okay, So how does it work? 361 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: The idea is simple, right, It pulls prices for expensive 362 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: stuff you want to buy, like let's just say a 363 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: thousand dollar jacket, and then it maps out how much 364 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: that thing would be worth been five years or ten 365 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 1: years even, and then I will show you that that 366 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: same jacket down the line. They work ship. But it 367 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: also shows you how much money you would have if 368 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: you put that g you spent on clothes and let's 369 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: just say a bond or some other investment stocks, money 370 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 1: market accounts, commodities of man. You see, your money could 371 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 1: have grown and it's like, oh, ship, the nigga needs 372 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: to be fiscally responsible. You feel me, Chin up, nose down, 373 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: Rise together? Wait, what's that was like noles thing? You know, 374 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: a little trademark you used to say, chin up. It's like, 375 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: you know, self respect, now respect for others, Like, don't 376 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: look down on nobody. Rise together, we all eat, we 377 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: all win. Jeez. From the time Big Age sees Gerald 378 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 1: and Niles getting the car and right off, it's about 379 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 1: a forty minute drive from their apartment to Gerald's work 380 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: in an area of Los Angeles known as the Valley, 381 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: Jason forty two Sports Bar and Grill was assumed to 382 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: be open to the public restaurant where Gerald was working construction, 383 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: and thanks to a decision made by the bar's owner, 384 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: Jay Shaw, we have a boon of recordings of Gerald 385 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: and just about everyone else who entered the establishment that day. Jas, 386 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: a former professional football player, was obsessed with security. Because 387 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 1: of this, Every inch of the building was surveiled in 388 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 1: four K video and audio, and there's construction paper and 389 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,120 Speaker 1: newspaper taped to the inside of the windows, obstructing anyone 390 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: street side from looking into the building while it's being renovated. 391 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: Love the door behind you. As Gerald turns on the lights, 392 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: we get a good look at the bar's interior. The 393 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: best way I can describe the place is that it 394 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: has a Parisian dining hall look mixed with the modern 395 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: cool hip vibe, maybe even more inviting with the sports 396 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: themed paraphernalia mostly featuring you guessed it highlights of Jayce 397 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: Shaw collegiate and professional football playing career. Hey day say 398 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: Geezy Quick? Playing around man. For the larger part of 399 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: the morning and early afternoon, Gerald and Niles work together 400 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: in a way that's best described as harmonic. They both 401 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 1: don construction coveralls and goggles, and at a glance, it 402 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: can be difficult to distinguish who is who in the 403 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: surveillance video, but an obvious teller is Gerald's awkward gait 404 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: when he limps from one end of the dining room 405 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 1: to another. Hey who that there's me? This is Jay Shaw. 406 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 1: Compared to the frame photographs that almost deified Jay's past 407 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: prowess and athleticism, where we see chiseled muscles and clear 408 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: eyed focus, the man we see now looks compromised by 409 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,640 Speaker 1: time and myriad tools that nature uses to wear down 410 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: the youth Hubrists and anatomy. As Jay's crosses from the 411 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: entrance over to the main bar, he pops five aspirant 412 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: and washes it down with a cocktail of pepto bismol 413 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: coffee and a splashy pour of whiskey. Are you guys 414 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: ready to order? Let me get a club soda with 415 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: two lime weathers in the California on the police, Jay's 416 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 1: greed to an interview as long as we did it 417 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 1: at his favorite breakfast spot in Venice Beach, which is 418 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: walking distance to the sober living house that he's been 419 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: staying in for the last two months. What do you 420 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: remember most about the earlier part of that day? Were 421 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: you in a good mood or a bad mood? Or 422 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 1: I remember drinking a lot? Uh? Let me see, I 423 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: was hundreds of thousand dollars in debt, I was going 424 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: through a divorce and I need to get the ball 425 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: open a staff so that I had a money coming in. 426 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: That was my mood, okay. So speaking of money, I 427 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: think I caught something unsurveillance, a dispute between you and 428 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 1: Gerald about past to payment. I wouldn't call it a 429 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: dispute so much as we had a conversation. But do 430 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 1: you remember what was said? It's true. Yeah, he had 431 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: been putting into was working our DeLint. So did he 432 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: threaten you? What now? Like that between us? I wanted 433 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: to square things up with him because I owed them 434 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: big time. Honestly, I didn't know when I would be 435 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: able to because my money was so funny. Then he 436 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:18,400 Speaker 1: gave me a slight out when he brought up the game. 437 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: Listen to this exchange. I haven't mentioned the tickets to 438 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: now's either. If ticket to nice basketball game? You said 439 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: you had to hook up? Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, 440 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 1: my bad, my bad. Yeah yeah, we're all good man. 441 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: I just forgot to pick him up. Hey can I try? Hey? No, yo? 442 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: What's up now? They? Oh? Boy, look at you get 443 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: big and ship. Hey look it. I need you to 444 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: make a run to my attorney's office and pick up 445 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: some tickets for us. I'm taking you and your pops 446 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: to the basketball game. What now? Yeah? I know, he 447 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: take my car. You're going to Beverly Hills. Boy, you 448 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: might as well right and stop for real school. As 449 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: Niles exits the bar to go on the errand, he 450 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: posts a few selfies of himself in front of Jason's car, 451 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: which was a Matt Pearl seven series BMW with fancy 452 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: rims in an aerodynamic looking spoiler. You could imagine how 453 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: an eighteen year old kid would be excited to drive 454 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: this car. So you mentioned before that you were caught 455 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: off guard when Gerald brought up going to the game. 456 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: How did you get the tickets so fast? I still 457 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: here to connects. I had quite burnt all my bridges here. 458 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: I got the call maybe five minutes before now showed up. 459 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: This is Melissa Hutchinson. She works for the sports and 460 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: entertainment law firm where Niles picked up the tickets. When 461 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: you're working on the reception desk, the job is essentially 462 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: three things. One maintain a level of alertness to be 463 00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: super welcoming and three make sure guests have valid dation 464 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: before they leave. And and do you remember anything in particular? 465 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 1: My boss at the time was a little miffed that 466 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: he had to give up seats for the game. Technically 467 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: they were for clients, but if no one claimed them, 468 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: he usually got to take his family. And what was 469 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: Niles like. I never told anybody this, but I totally 470 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: forgot to give him his parking validation. Usually dotted my 471 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: eyes and crossed my teas with that sort of thing. 472 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: But he sort of knocked me off my game. How's that? 473 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: He was just really friendly and cute, charming. He asked 474 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: me if he could follow me on my socials, and 475 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: I gave him my info. We got so lost in 476 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: conversation I almost forgot to give him the tickets. You 477 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: kind of liked him, didn't you. I mean yeah, A 478 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: little bit after he left, I followed him back and 479 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: you know, started looking through his feed. Then he added 480 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: me in his last video, and wow, you know what 481 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: happened after that? Melissa's referring, of course, to the ill 482 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: fated encounter with the police where Niles gets pulled over. 483 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: But one more critical thing happened that we have to 484 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: cover as part of the mesh up events. Because while 485 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: Niles was leaving Beverly Hills with the tickets, back at 486 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: the bar, Jason was giving his former sports agent Martin 487 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: Simms a tour of his restaurant. It wasn't just a 488 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: tool for ships, he gave his Kate. My plan was 489 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: to hit man Nu for some caves. I put the 490 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: all man but it's on him, hoping that I could 491 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: open up those deepotsies. Jason was an absolute mess that day, 492 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: but then again to me always was really that's Martin 493 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: Simms talking. The best way I can describe him is 494 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: risk averse. Jay smelled like booze and wouldn't stop going 495 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: on and on about some ridiculously overpriced door knobs he 496 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: just got. I asked Jason about the door knobs as well. 497 00:31:53,440 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: Do I remember, Kate? Those things were antique European rustick 498 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: brons them ships was too random, peace, Martin elaborates. Then 499 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: he tells me to put my hands on them to 500 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: get the feeling. And I don't know. I mean, they 501 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: felt like door knobs, Kate, complete waste of money. Okay, 502 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: ka ka, let me tell you. Ex person said, I 503 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: like to impress my potential investors. Yeah, make him feel 504 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: like they was having an experience. Even better, paint the 505 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: picture for Jason's a salesman, and I'll give him that 506 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: NonStop talking. He's going on and on and on, But 507 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: that in area is right through that. Then it converts 508 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: into a club. After ten pm. We'll be drawn a 509 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: thousand customers a night. Easy. But then he takes me 510 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: into his office where he has this Florida ceiling glass 511 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: case vault with an arsenal of guns. Yeah. My I 512 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,719 Speaker 1: didn't like my toys. So I was straight up with him. 513 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: I'm like, Jason, I can't invest in this. Either you're 514 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: going to get arrested because of this this armory, or 515 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: someone's gonna get hurt. And you know, I even asked him, 516 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: I said, what do you need this for anyway? And 517 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: what did he say? He said he needed it for protection. 518 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: And I'm still from the hood. So look, by this point, 519 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: I was just ready to leave, and I should have, 520 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: but Jason does what he does. He starts pressing me, 521 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: ropes me back in. He says, hey, I gotta takes 522 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: to the game, blah blah blah and all this, that 523 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: and the other. So in order to get a second 524 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: away from him leaning on me to come in on 525 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: this bar, I said, look, I need to take some 526 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: pigs and videos of the place. You know, do my 527 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: due diligence. Now, mind you, I had already made my decision. 528 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: There was no way in hell I'm investing. But I 529 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: know him. We go way back, and I don't want 530 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: to be rupe. Don't remember what time he started taking 531 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: photos of the place. Yeah, it must have been around. 532 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: According to the time stamp on Niles of social media feed, 533 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: he went live for the last time at three o 534 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,320 Speaker 1: nine pm while stopped at a red light on his 535 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: way back to Jason's forty two. Framed in the shot, 536 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: we see the steering wheels BMW logo and he's proudly 537 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: fanning the four basketball game tickets. Listen, Yeah, shout out 538 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: to j Shaw. I am Melissa H for the tickets 539 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 1: to the game. Damn got the cop that's gonna join me. 540 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: As Niles adjust his phone, the video post ends. Did 541 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: he mean to stop it? Or was it an accident? 542 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: Every time I watch it, I wonder did he have 543 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: any idea that the video he just cut short would 544 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,760 Speaker 1: be at last? Could he sense that he was about 545 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: to have a contentious exchange with the police? Did he 546 00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: know that they would have a hand in his death. 547 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: Despite all the recordings and testimonies that I've gathered, those 548 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: few precious seconds between the end of his post and 549 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: the cops approaching his car will forever belonged to Niles 550 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: and the unknown. Coming up on the next episode of 551 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 1: Hashtag Matter, Hands up on the Dash? You want to 552 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 1: put my hands up on the dash? Now all right, 553 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 1: all right, all right, back, stop that you're like a criminal. Comply, 554 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: but how am I acting like a crimson? And final 555 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: warning stop outside of the vehicle. We will recount what 556 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 1: we do know about the police, though that goes so 557 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: terribly wrong. Hashtag Matter starring Aman Joseph as Gerald Hayes, 558 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: Jennifer Christopher as Kate Bell, Steve Harris as Jason Shaw Hayley, 559 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: Joel Osmond as Sergeant Place, Pooch Hall as Martin Sims, 560 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 1: and Snoop Dogg as Big h s Now. Performances by 561 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: Nile Bullock as Niles Hayes, Serena Pouncy as Michelle Hayes, 562 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:10,360 Speaker 1: Alfonso Faustino as Sergeant Hobbs, John Lacy as Commander Emmonds, 563 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:15,240 Speaker 1: Alex Kihano as Captain Flores, Monte Russell as Detective Patterson, 564 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: and Stephen Robert Wallenberg as Detective Halmer. With appearances by 565 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:26,320 Speaker 1: Mercy Malick, Ryan Smith, Amir Tali, Alex Vaughan, Colin Ward, 566 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 1: and Orval Williams. Hashtag Matter was written and directed by 567 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: Dylan C. Brown. Our executive producers are Sandy Bailey, Lauren Holman, 568 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 1: Dylan Brown, Winnie Kemp and Aimon Joseph Audio designed by 569 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: Wolf at the Door. Sound design and mix by Josh Falcon, 570 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: music by Jonathan Sandford, Edited by Naron Oling and our 571 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: sound director in Alexander Kemp. Produced by Toby Lawless and 572 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: Lucy Jones. Casting by Lawless Casting. Hashtag Matter is a 573 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,439 Speaker 1: production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart 574 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: Radio and an association with Wolf at the Door. For 575 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,479 Speaker 1: more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, 576 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.