WEBVTT - Bob Ezrin pt2 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.880 Welcome, Welcome, welcome back to part two of my podcast 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:16.600 with the legendary record producer Bob az Were Bob, good 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:18.840 to have you back. Thank you, It's very good to 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:21.919 be here. Okay, let's delve into some of your work 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:24.800 that we didn't get to last time. Now, you were 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:28.120 consistently involved with Alice Cooper, but you did not do 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:31.400 Muscle of Love. Why. Uh, there was a point at 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.480 which the band was starting to flex their muscles, meaning 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:39.320 the the the instrumental band within the the Alice Cooper group. Um, 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:43.280 they wanted more recognition, they wanted more respect. They felt 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:46.120 like I was too sort of in charge of that 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.879 side of things, and I think that there was also uh, 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:54.760 some disagreement amongst the different factions about what they were 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:56.600 going to do as their next step. Anyway, it was 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:59.040 just not comfortable for everybody, and it was clear to 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:03.040 me on the first day of rehearsal that some people 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:05.840 in the room were not happy to see me, and 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.240 that happens, you know, in life. Sometimes that happens. By 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:11.520 the end of the day, I just realized that this 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:15.520 was not going to be a happy experience, and um, 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.399 I took Alice aside and said Uh, look, I I 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:21.960 can't do this. And I called Jack Douglas, who had 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:24.920 been working for me and doing some production for me, 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.840 and I asked my my then partner X my what 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:34.480 who used to be my boss, Jack Richardson. I asked him, Um, 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:37.399 if he and Jack Douglas together would take over the project. 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:39.440 I knew between the two of them there would be 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:43.679 a continuity there and a comfort factor for the band. 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.399 So they said yes, and I think they did a 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:50.760 really good job. Now the band broke up slightly thereafter. 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:55.360 Did you foresee that happening? Yeah, I sort of did. 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:58.880 I you know I did. I didn't really, I didn't 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:00.920 have anything to do it that. I didn't talk to 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.480 anybody about that. But I did say to Chef and 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:07.200 to Alice that, you know, if they do decide to 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.400 go out on their own, that they should call me. 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:11.640 I'd be very happy to come back. So what was 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:14.840 the process? Ultimately Alice Cooper went solo, but he was 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:17.280 identified with the name of the band at that point. 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:20.080 How did that come together that you went back to 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:23.919 work with Alice? Well, let's be clear about something. When 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:28.240 the when the band formed, um, you know, it was 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:31.840 it was obvious to to chef UM and it was 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.720 suggested by Pat Kingsley, one of the greatest pr people 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:38.680 in the world, UM, that you couldn't have a band 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.280 called Alice Cooper without having someone in the band called 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:46.840 Alice Cooper. So um Vincent Fernier got selected. He was 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.680 the lead singer after all, and he literally changed his 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.880 name legally and went through all that process to become 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.800 Alice Cooper. He was also the guy then that spoke 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:58.040 on behalf of the band. So at seven in the morning, 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:00.200 where everybody else was sleeping off the gig of the 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.400 night before, he's on the phone with Match Paris or 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:07.920 some other you know, periodical somewhere. He's doing all this 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:12.280 spokesman stuff. He's working double duty. So by the time 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.640 it came to determining where the band was going to go, 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.760 it was clear that, you know, Alice Cooper going off 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:20.919 on his own would be Alice Cooper and the rest 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:24.560 of the band would have to find um a different name. 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.880 Do you believe there was resentment from the rest of 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:32.760 the band that he went on using the name? You know? 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:36.920 I think, you know, maybe at the at the time 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:39.280 there might have been, but but nobody could you know, 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:42.600 you you. You can't deny a person the right to 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.560 work under their own name. That's just like, that's just 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:49.600 common sense. So, you know, resentment that he stayed Alice Cooper, 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.080 I don't think so. There may have been some resentment 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:56.360 about um, you know, chefs staying with him and me 0:03:56.480 --> 0:04:00.560 going back and that you know, sort of um leaving 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:02.920 them out there on their own. And I can I 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:09.160 can understand that. Since then, happily everybody has um remain friends, 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:13.200 continue to work together. We just did um some sessions 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:17.120 and Phoenix with the original guys and Alice and um 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:19.479 we all talked to each other all the time. Dennis 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:24.200 has written songs on Alice's current records and stuff. So 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:29.159 all is well, okay, So how does the process go 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.160 down in a more granular fashion in terms of the 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:37.600 story that you get back to work with Alice. Um. 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:42.039 The it's a very simple one that that um uh 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.440 they have to do a project, a solo project, and 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:49.240 Sheep has um uh a clause in his contract, in 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:52.599 the Alice Cooper contract that allows them to do a 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:58.360 soundtrack album for different label than Warner Brothers. So they 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:01.360 go to a sister label so as to keep peace 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:04.880 in the family. They go to Atlantic Records and then 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:06.800 Chef calls me up and says, you know we're gonna 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:08.560 do it again. Would you like to work with Alice? 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:11.040 And oh, by the way, we need a soundtrack, meaning 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:13.040 we have to come up with an idea for a 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:17.440 movie or um our TV show. So Alice and I 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:22.240 got together and UM interestingly, so we get together, we 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:24.159 start talking about this and we came up we we 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:26.839 decided to come up with our own story. So we 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.280 come up with a storyline where this rock star named 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:34.039 Stephen something he uh and his mistress are in a 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:37.760 private plane somewhere over the Rockies and the plane goes down, 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:42.880 He disappears, she disappears. Twenty eight days later, he uh 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:48.640 surfaces alone and he's fine, and he looks fine. The suggestion, 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:52.720 you know, is that something untoward may have happened there 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:56.200 during that twey eight days and and he comes back 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:59.120 and now he's rock star by day and evening and 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.920 by night he's a vampire and a killer. And so 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:04.520 that was the idea and way we came up with 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:08.040 this thing, Welcome to My Nightmare. And UM and Sheff 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:12.159 introduced us to a movie director UH named Denny man, 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:14.640 who would who would have been the director of this 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:17.360 project if it had all sort of worked out? Alis 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:20.479 and I went to Vancouver, BC UH to meet with 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.760 Denny Man on a ship off the coast of Vancouver 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:29.599 where he was shooting a movie featuring um uh, Ian McShane, 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:37.560 um Donald Pleasants and Vincent Price Wow and Vette Memu, 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:41.240 who happened to be my wet dream. Right. So so 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:43.120 there we were onto forward, you know, and I was 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:46.680 standing next to Mr Price. He pulled out a cigar 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.320 Monte Cristo, which I was smoking in those days. I 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:52.599 loved monte Cristos, and I just said, look, I know 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.479 this is very forward, but would you happen to have 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:58.400 one more of those? And he was Suddenly we were 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:03.000 like cigar buddies, you know how cigar buddies are, and 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.200 and so we started talking and I'm listening that voice, 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:08.279 and I just said to him, Mr Price, how would 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:13.240 you like to make your rock and roll debut? And uh? 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:15.400 And he he looked at me like it was some 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:19.280 kind of joke, but then he said sure. So I said, well, 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:22.240 we'll stay in touch. And of course there was no movie. 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:25.160 We came up with an idea for a television special, 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:29.840 uh for ABC Wide World of Entertainment. This was back 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:32.200 when they they had ABC Wide World of Sports, the 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.440 Agony of defeating, the ecstasy of victory or whatever it was, right, 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:37.560 and then they decided, well, we're you know, this is 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:40.200 working so well for sports, We're gonna do it for entertainment. 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.240 So they set up this slot. And I believe we 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.600 were the first ones with this project called Welcome to 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:50.120 My Nightmare, which is its own show all by itself. 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:52.200 So we should move on from this, but let me 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:55.240 just tell you that there has never been a three 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.680 ring circus like that whole experience in my entire life. 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:03.520 And someday we'll talk all about it. Okay. Meanwhile, you 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:07.640 work with Kiss, making what many people believe is their 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:12.040 best album, Destroyer. Tell us a story of that. Well, 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.680 you know, the the Kiss situation was really interesting. I 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:18.880 I always had a published phone number in Toronto when 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.160 I was when I was living in Toronto, and they 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:24.400 were fans who used to call me and just talk 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:26.560 to me about stuff. There was this one kid, Mike 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.840 Longman's who called me up. He was sixteen years old 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:36.240 and he said, Um, there's this band that that needs 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:38.720 you man, they really need you. You need to work 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:40.720 with this band. They're called Kiss. I didn't I had 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.480 never heard of them, um, but he was adamant about it. 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:47.559 So I started looking them up and listening to music 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:51.640 and stuff. And then literally like three days later, I 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:56.240 was at CITYTV downtown Toronto doing an interview for an 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.240 artist that I had signed to my label. So I 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:01.200 was going up this rors to the TV studio and 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.800 as I was going up, the members of Kiss were 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:08.160 coming down from just having done their um interview in 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:12.079 in makeup, pull makeup, full costume. They were coming clumping 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:14.520 down those stairs. It was like a herd of buffalo, 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.240 you know, clo and as they got close to me, 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:21.240 they were like giants. They were these monstrous guys, you know. 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.160 And and uh, Paul Stanley was in the lead. So 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:28.160 I stopped Paul and said, hi, um, I'm bob Ezrind 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:30.200 and he said, oh, we know who you are. And 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.559 I said, well that's good, because now I know who 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:35.040 you are. I said, are you guys happy with your records? 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:39.440 And he said yeah, why you know, Like, what do 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:41.600 you mean I mean? And I just said, well, you know, 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.240 I don't mean anything. I'm just saying, if at any 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:48.120 point you're not, um, I'd be really interested in talking 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:50.720 to you about working together. And that was that. I 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:54.160 didn't speak to anybody after that. And then some months 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:59.600 later I got a call from Bill a Coin, the manager, 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:02.280 the manager of the band, saying, you know, the band 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:04.080 would very much like to meet with you. And first 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.120 we wanted we wanted you to go see them play 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:10.880 a live So I did. I went to Michigan, Um, 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.240 I think it was Anne Arbor, you know, and uh, 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:18.320 they were playing in an arena stand you know, you know, 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:22.120 just general standing, not even seating, and the place the 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.200 place was pretty full, or about nine thousand people in 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:29.280 the arena, and they were all fifteen year old pimpley boys, 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:34.679 which to me looked like a massive opportunity because I 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.160 was thinking, like, if they do this well with nothing 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:41.520 but pimpley boys, imagine if we could just expand the 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:46.080 platform and um and attract a larger audience. And because 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:49.000 while I was watching them, like, I was thinking, you 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:52.120 know what, these guys are actually really good and there 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.200 and they're sexy too in a in a strange way, 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:57.680 and yet they're they're just playing this kind of you 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:01.360 know hard drink and hard partying, macho thing for the 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:03.160 sake of fifteen year olds, that if I could just 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.240 get them to expand their repertoire a bit, that we 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:11.280 might be able to get to a larger audience. Okay, 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.280 And so you see them, and how do you seal 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.320 the deal? And then what's the next step in making 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:20.000 the record? So we go to a We go to uh, 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:23.600 a Middle Eastern restaurant in New York City chosen by 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.960 Gene Simmons, and we have I have Moose for the 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:31.200 first time and just love it. And then we have 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:34.520 this conversation where I tell them I remind them of 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:37.280 the movie The Wild One, which to all your listeners 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:39.480 is probably way too long ago, But it was a 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:43.440 biker movie that had legendary Marlon Brando, the leader of 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:46.280 one bike gang, and Lee Marvin, the leader of the other. 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:50.640 Marlon Brando's gang were bad, but Lee Marvin's gang was 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:54.839 really bad, and they descended on this little town and there, 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:57.200 and they were just going to destroy the place. But 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:00.920 sure how there was one girl who who heart was pure, 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:05.040 who believed that she could she could change and save 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:08.880 Marlon Brando. So she and Marlon brand his name was 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.920 Johnny in the movie. So she decided that she was 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:14.680 going to she was going to cure Johnny with love 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:18.480 in a sense, so she and Johnny fall into love 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:22.000 and and and then of course what happens is Johnny 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:25.880 goes from zero to hero and he and his guys 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.080 saved the town. So I just said to them, like, 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.200 right now, you guys are Lee Marvin, this is not 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:34.600 gonna I mean, it's cool to be bad, but I 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.600 want you to be bad but sexy too. And I 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:39.560 think that it would be great if you were bad 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:43.200 and and every girl in the world thought they could 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:47.040 fix you. That to me would be that would be genius. 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.080 So they love that idea, you know. And and I said, well, 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:51.760 you know, let's get to work. It's gonna be the 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:54.079 material to start off with. We're gonna have to have 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:58.199 songs that do that for us, and we're gonna have 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:00.319 to make a really good record. I think the meeting 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.520 was terrific because, you know, Jane and Paul and I 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:07.280 are you know, we're all Jewish boys who grew up 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:14.319 um with dreams of blonds and envy of of our Protestant, 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.160 our white Anglo Saxon Protestant friends, you know, so we 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.600 had a common platform. We knew where we were coming from, 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:23.120 and and the other guys were you know, they were 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.440 good humored, and I mean I just found the whole 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:30.480 band really kind of fun to work with. Okay, So 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:33.319 none of the songs were written prior to your involvement. 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.079 There were bits and pieces because they knew that they 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:39.320 were going to start up again. Okay, there were a 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.960 couple of legendary Kiss songs first Detroit Rock City. What's 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.040 the story? How does that come together? Let's let me 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:47.439 ask you this. You send them off to wood shed, 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:50.000 when you get back together with them, to what degree 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:54.640 of the songs complete? Well, I didn't send them anywhere. 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:57.840 They had already started to work on material for the album. 0:13:57.880 --> 0:13:59.800 The next step really was for me to go to 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.440 each of them individually and sit and listen through their 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:07.240 like mountains of cassette tapes and and little bits and 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.400 pieces to see what we liked and what sort of 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:15.280 fit this the new mission. Right. So, um, we went 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:16.800 through a lot of stuff and there were some really 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:18.800 good you know, there were great riffs and there were 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.720 not so great riffs, and um, but there was enough 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:26.000 to get us started and so so once once I, 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.320 once I felt like we had the pieces that we needed. 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:32.800 Then um, we got together and started to really craft 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:36.280 them into songs. Now, most of the writing, the writing 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:40.800 for the album was Um, Gene and Paul, sometimes separately, 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:47.720 sometimes together, And there was the one obligatory UM song 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.160 that that that had to come from Peter Chris and 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:54.480 I don't know what happened about the A song there 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:58.200 should have been one, but anyway, so we got together. 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.320 We had these little bits of pieces, and uh, sometimes 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:03.000 it would just be me and one of them, and 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.120 sometimes it will be the three of us. A lot 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:07.080 of the time we went by this time, I was 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:10.240 living in New York. We came to my apartment and 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.480 sat at my piano, which has a lot to do 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:17.000 with some of the arrangement stuff like the shout and 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.920 shout a loud don don don don do da da 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:24.160 don dome that's like a left hand piano thing. And 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:30.000 the riff for Detroit Rock City, Um, that's and that's 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.240 pure guitar and pure cock and balls. It's just a 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:38.880 really amazing riff. And uh, I don't you know, honestly, 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.200 I don't know how it turned from just being like 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.400 a regular rock song into being this rock and roll saga. 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.680 But I do know that all of us were theatrical. 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:51.600 We were all looking for something more than just you know, 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:53.720 who wants to party and who wants to drink a 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:57.200 lot for this record, So we started telling a story 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.600 and and um, and then the make of the of 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.640 that record was really exciting too, because we were experimenting 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:07.960 with new technology and we're adding sound effects. Many people 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.960 don't know this, but the entire front of that song 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:18.120 was binaurally recorded. It was me wearing a binaural head microphone, 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:20.960 and that was me in the car. That's me doing 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:24.280 the dishes nets, you know, and humming as the kid, 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:26.920 right and uh, but it's in binoral so if you 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:30.960 put on headphones, it's like three sixty degree sound and 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:34.240 you're right there in the center of it. So where 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:36.760 was it cut. It was cut at the record plant 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:40.360 in New York City on forty four Street West, my 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:47.840 favorite all time UM rock and roll studio, and um, 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.840 you know, sadly it doesn't exist anymore. It was an 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:54.880 amazing place where great adventures happened and lots of magic 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:58.080 was getting the adventures and getting to the sound. How 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:02.880 important is a specific studio to you, Um, well, there 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:05.320 are certain things that are important, and then you can 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:07.880 find the studio that fits. You know, I don't want 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:10.360 to I don't want to be that guy who can 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:14.600 only paint on Tuesday afternoons, you know. I basically, you know, 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.719 my mantra is basically, you know, give me, you know, 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:19.920 give me a cell phone and a flashlight and I'll 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:22.440 put I'll give you a record, new show, you know. 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:27.119 So it's I can basically make records anyway, that is 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:30.960 the truth. But I but I do want, where possible 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:35.119 to have an optimum circumstance for the band because the 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:38.639 at the end of the day, their performance in that 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:41.720 studio depends a lot on how they feel and on 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:46.200 on what the studio does to inspire them, make them comfortable, 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:49.560 bring out better performances in them. So in that sense, 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:52.080 it's very important. For a band like Kiss, it was 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.080 very important that they be in the room together. That's 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.439 that's massive. Um. They needed to see each other and 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:02.639 they needed to playoff of each other's excitement as things 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:06.000 as interesting things were happening. But by the same token, 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:09.000 we had to keep the drums as separate as possible. 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:14.439 So that we could go back and UM redo some 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:18.639 parts if necessary, or we could actually edit from one 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:22.800 section to another into the drum tracks without picking up 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:26.879 the wrong leakage from the room. So the record plant 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.960 studio was perfect because they had this massive drum booth 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.960 you could put Peter Chris in. It was only open 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.760 at eyesight level, so he could see us all we 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:40.040 could see him, but UM, most of the sound from 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:42.879 the room was prevented from getting into the mics of 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:47.520 his drums. That gave me a tremendous amount of flexibility. Okay, 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:51.560 is there a specific board you'd like to use? Specific 0:18:52.480 --> 0:19:01.320 mixing monitors? No? Really, how about engineer now? Well, ok okay, 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:03.720 let me let me do you know that's that's a 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:05.879 pretty fast I'll answer there are people I love to 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:10.560 work with UM and you know, in the last little while, 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:12.920 I've done a lot of work with Justin Quarterloo in 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:18.879 uh Nashville. He's really good, really fast and UM. And 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:21.800 then you know, I have some younger engineers that I 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:24.040 like to work with. I like to bring along to 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:29.159 sort of learn my system and be UM responsive to 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.160 me on a kind of more natural level. And so 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:36.600 there's uh, I've got Julian Shank in Nashville as well. 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:40.200 And then there's Jill Zimmerman in Toronto who's a young 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.960 engineer from Germany that's moved to Canada. Is very talented, 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:48.159 very smart. Um. And I've worked with Brian Monkar's in 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:51.840 Canada who is actually uh, you know, fully fledged producer 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:55.159 but you know, sometimes does some mixing and engineering for me. 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:57.560 And then in in England where I do a lot 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:05.320 of work, um the engineer depends on um the job. 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:07.399 But for all of the Pink Floyd stuff, all the 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:09.840 things that I did in Pink Floyd Land, it was 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:15.040 Andrew Jackson, who is just phenomenal, incredibly musicals and I 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:18.280 have you know, I mean there's a long list. Okay, 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:19.840 so tell us a story that So now am I 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.320 going to piss off the people? I didn't put on people? 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:26.040 That's why I said, no, it's easier, you know. But 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:28.280 but you know, there's lots of really good people. That's 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.119 the point. But the more interesting thing is that you 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:33.600 don't require you don't have the right hand person. You 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:39.160 must use no. No, I you know, because listen, I've 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.040 been doing this for a long long time. And and 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:45.560 also you know, when I was starting out like we were. 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:48.879 We were breaking new ground. I didn't really want somebody 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.680 that only knew one way of doing things. Brian Christian 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:55.080 was a fantastic partner at that time as an engineer 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:59.520 because he knew Jack Jack's methodology, but he was also 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:02.679 aren't enough and had enough experience to be able to 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:07.480 adapt to me and to start um learning my way 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:10.560 of doing things and helping me with developing my way 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:14.439 of doing things. So did Um Shelley yakas you know 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:17.520 from from the record plant, and Roy Cicala, who you know, 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:21.320 the great, the late great Roy Sicela, who had a 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:26.840 tremendous amount to uh to do with my matriculation, and 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:29.760 and at the very very beginning there was Phil ramonas 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:32.959 I think I mentioned earlier, David David Green. So I've had, 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:35.200 you know, I've gone to school with some really really 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:39.080 good people. I've learned a lot. I've also learned that 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:44.120 if you push the wrong button, nothing explodes. You don't die. 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.399 It's amazing. So you know, you could be afraid of 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:50.119 doing stuff, but sometimes you just gotta push and if 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:52.320 it sounds good, you go, okay, that's what I wanted, 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:56.840 you know, And if it sounds shitty. You go, oh whoops. Okay, 0:21:56.840 --> 0:22:01.720 So tell us about the creation of beth Um. You know, 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:03.400 we had to have we had to have a Peter 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:07.240 Cris song to keep peace in the family. And he 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:10.000 and Stan Pendridge had come up with a kind of 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:15.159 bouncy little thing called Beck b E, C K and U, 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:20.359 and it was it was sort of it was a 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:23.679 little bit like the cock and balls um approach of 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:26.640 earlier kiss. It was just kind of arrogant and sort 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:29.239 of dismissive of the girl and basically say, you know, 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:31.800 you're not that important. I got I got guys to 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:34.600 hang out with, We're gonna go play music and that. 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:37.639 But there was a really not there was there was 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:42.320 a kernel of something there that I really loved. And um, 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:45.800 it just that you know Beck, that there's was Beck. 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:48.520 I hear you calling, but I can't come home right now. 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:52.520 That just exploded in my brain. So I asked, I 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:54.760 said to Peter, can I take that home and play 0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:56.720 with it a little bit? And he was very gracious 0:22:56.840 --> 0:23:00.480 said sure. So I went home and I just closed 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:02.960 my eyes and thought about it, and to me, it was, well, 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:04.760 first of all, I don't know Becca is Jeff Beck 0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:08.439 or Rebecca or whatever. It's confusing. So I'm gonna go 0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:14.160 with Beth because that's a gentle, soft, beautiful name. And 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:16.240 and when the guy calls her up and he's saying 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:18.760 he can't come home right now, I don't want it 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:22.719 to be because she's um not important to him. I 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:25.600 wanted to be because his heart is broken. I wanted 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:29.040 to be because home is nowhere to be anymore. And 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:32.600 that and here comes our here comes our wild one moment, 0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:36.200 our Johnny moment. I want the nasty rock and roll 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:39.240 guy to break down in tears in front of all 0:23:39.280 --> 0:23:41.199 the girls of the world and say, you know, I 0:23:41.240 --> 0:23:44.120 didn't go home because I didn't feel loved anymore, so 0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:46.920 that they would wrap him in their arms and love 0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:50.160 him to death. So you go back and you show 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:54.160 it to the band. What, especially Chris, What does he say? 0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:57.800 I honestly don't remember whether it was instantly accepted or not. 0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:00.879 I mean, I think I think, um, I think Paul 0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:06.639 and Jean for sure recognized that it was a better version. Um. 0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:09.160 I'm not sure that anybody paid it as much attention 0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:12.400 as I did at the time. But you know, as 0:24:12.440 --> 0:24:14.919 it as it developed, it got you know, it became 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:17.439 clearer and clearer that this there was something really special 0:24:17.440 --> 0:24:20.080 about this song. Okay, the album comes out and it 0:24:20.200 --> 0:24:24.639 was a monstrous success. What is the band's reaction to 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:27.840 this success and to what degree did they give kudos 0:24:27.880 --> 0:24:30.960 to you? Okay, well, first of all, the album gets 0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:34.879 reviewed in the long lead press. So, and this is 0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:37.560 just before it's released, and an article comes out, I 0:24:37.600 --> 0:24:40.760 don't remember if it's Rolling Stone or Record World or somewhere, 0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:43.639 and this guy writes an article that basically says that 0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:47.199 I have destroyed Kiss and that and that I have 0:24:47.400 --> 0:24:52.080 you know, I've I've feminized them and basically turned them 0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:55.200 into an and Margaret style. I they yeah, he literally said, 0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:57.919 you know, well, you know, adding and Margaret horns to 0:24:57.960 --> 0:25:00.879 my favorite band. And he says he closes the article 0:25:00.960 --> 0:25:04.520 with the line I have a mind to go to 0:25:04.520 --> 0:25:07.679 Toronto and punch Bob ezran in the nos on behalf 0:25:07.720 --> 0:25:14.479 of Kiss fans everything, you know, and um I sent 0:25:14.640 --> 0:25:17.000 him a funny response, but you know, we we don't 0:25:17.000 --> 0:25:22.159 need that now. But um that got everybody nuts. The 0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:26.840 band got crazy, um management got crazy, and they started 0:25:26.840 --> 0:25:29.400 to wonder if, oh my god, you know, did we 0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:33.320 actually make a huge mistake here. And then I believe 0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:37.439 that that g Bill a Coin, the manager, maybe he 0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:40.400 was hearing voices from elsewhere. You know, there's always other 0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:43.640 voices in other courses. As we say, there's always critics. 0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:45.680 Everybody wants to tell you that what you just did 0:25:45.720 --> 0:25:47.719 would have been better if only they had done it. 0:25:48.119 --> 0:25:50.680 And so somebody must have been saying, you know, this 0:25:50.760 --> 0:25:54.119 is really gonna be a problem for you guys. And 0:25:55.359 --> 0:25:59.199 I blithely go off on vacation with my sons, and 0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:01.240 I have a I have a answering service in New York. 0:26:01.320 --> 0:26:03.120 This is in the days when there were no machines. 0:26:03.160 --> 0:26:06.560 There were little ladies the city at a switchboard in 0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:08.639 New York City that were like my mom, you know. 0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:10.280 They used to when I would stay out too late, 0:26:10.320 --> 0:26:12.720 they would go, where were you? What were you doing? 0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:17.040 You know. So I get back, I get back from 0:26:17.400 --> 0:26:20.520 two weeks of vacation, and I call my answering service 0:26:21.040 --> 0:26:24.080 because then no cell phone, you know, like nobody could 0:26:24.119 --> 0:26:26.840 reach you. That's fine, that was just fine. That was 0:26:26.880 --> 0:26:29.280 the idea. So I get home, I check on on 0:26:29.480 --> 0:26:32.480 my service for messages, and you know, the lady says, 0:26:33.040 --> 0:26:37.359 where have you been, Mr Douglas has been calling you 0:26:37.400 --> 0:26:41.760 and calling you, and he seems very very upset. You 0:26:41.800 --> 0:26:45.600 should call him right away. So no, I thought that 0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:48.320 there was like some health issue or something terrible that 0:26:48.359 --> 0:26:53.080 had happened. I called Jack right away, and he was 0:26:54.160 --> 0:26:57.960 he was struggling with with his words because he just 0:26:58.240 --> 0:27:01.520 he was so comfortable saying to me what he had 0:27:01.560 --> 0:27:06.080 to say. And he prefaced it by saying, look, I 0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:10.280 won't do this if you don't want me to. But 0:27:11.240 --> 0:27:15.440 he had gotten a call from Kiss management asking if 0:27:15.480 --> 0:27:19.080 he would do the next Kiss record. We weren't even 0:27:19.080 --> 0:27:23.040 out yet, or maybe we had just come out, and 0:27:23.280 --> 0:27:27.679 clearly it was um you know, so the opposite of 0:27:27.680 --> 0:27:29.879 a vote of a vote of confidence or any kind 0:27:29.880 --> 0:27:32.520 of thanks or any recognition of my you know, it's 0:27:32.560 --> 0:27:35.879 exactly the opposite of what you're asking, right, And I 0:27:36.000 --> 0:27:39.680 just like I was, like, I sat back in my cheer, 0:27:39.680 --> 0:27:42.639 going wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, say this again. We 0:27:42.760 --> 0:27:46.560 just finished an album, Like, what are you saying? He said, Well, 0:27:46.880 --> 0:27:49.639 you know, Bill had called him and the band was 0:27:49.760 --> 0:27:52.840 very unhappy with the results and they would really like 0:27:53.000 --> 0:27:56.880 to um explorer working with Jack. Now, by that time, 0:27:56.920 --> 0:28:00.640 I think he had done the first Aerosmith record. In fact, 0:28:00.680 --> 0:28:06.520 I know he yet um uh his first record with Aarsmith, 0:28:06.600 --> 0:28:10.880 not their first record. So you know, I was like 0:28:11.200 --> 0:28:13.639 I was, I was just in shock, and I just 0:28:13.680 --> 0:28:17.720 said to Jack, you know what, fuck them. If that's 0:28:17.760 --> 0:28:20.840 the reaction after all that work and all the really 0:28:20.840 --> 0:28:24.200 cool stuff that's on that record and all the time 0:28:24.240 --> 0:28:26.680 we spent together and the friendship I thought we had, 0:28:26.720 --> 0:28:30.159 If that's it, they call around behind my back and 0:28:30.280 --> 0:28:34.439 ask my own um, you know, I don't want to 0:28:34.440 --> 0:28:37.600 say protege, but you know that in a sense he was, 0:28:37.680 --> 0:28:41.000 you know, my own guy. If he wants to replace me, 0:28:41.560 --> 0:28:50.120 that is just so um insulting and uh and just 0:28:50.280 --> 0:28:52.840 you know, it just blew my mind. So I just 0:28:52.840 --> 0:28:54.560 basically said to him, you know what, call him back 0:28:54.560 --> 0:28:56.760 and tell him you'll do it. And while you're at it, 0:28:56.840 --> 0:29:00.560 till tell Bill a Coin to go funk himself. And 0:29:00.760 --> 0:29:03.480 I didn't speak to them for a long time thereafter. 0:29:06.000 --> 0:29:10.960 You know, they didn't reach out. UM. I don't really 0:29:11.000 --> 0:29:15.640 know how it happened. I did stay in touch with Um, 0:29:15.680 --> 0:29:19.360 I did stay in touch with Jean and occasionally but 0:29:19.440 --> 0:29:22.120 not very often. And Paul lived just across the street 0:29:22.120 --> 0:29:24.000 from me, in New York that was even worse. You know, 0:29:24.000 --> 0:29:29.520 it was awkward. He lived directly across the street and uh, 0:29:29.560 --> 0:29:32.200 you know, with his girlfriend at the time. And anyway, 0:29:32.320 --> 0:29:37.640 I don't really remember exactly how we got how the 0:29:37.640 --> 0:29:40.360 conversation came up for bringing us back together, but I 0:29:40.440 --> 0:29:45.360 know that it was, um, a long time there after, years, 0:29:45.480 --> 0:29:48.880 a few years thereafter, okay, but most people at this 0:29:48.960 --> 0:29:52.640 point believe Destroyer is their best album. In addition, I 0:29:52.680 --> 0:29:56.600 believe it is their biggest seller by a mile. So 0:29:56.680 --> 0:30:00.160 they never acknowledged that. Well, no, they did after they 0:30:00.200 --> 0:30:04.000 did later, you know later, Um, I know what they 0:30:04.000 --> 0:30:08.000 didn't acknowledge was that breakup. They didn't acknowledge the breakup 0:30:08.040 --> 0:30:11.000 and how improperly it went down. They didn't nobody called 0:30:11.040 --> 0:30:13.720 to apologize. And at the time I was enough of 0:30:13.760 --> 0:30:17.719 a punk and young enough that to me that was 0:30:17.760 --> 0:30:19.720 like it was a matter of principle. You know, if 0:30:19.760 --> 0:30:22.720 they don't apologize, I'm not gonna you know, I'm not 0:30:22.720 --> 0:30:24.920 going to be the first one to say, what the 0:30:24.920 --> 0:30:27.680 funk happened? You know, So it took us a long 0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:29.600 time to get back together. Today, if that kind of 0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:32.120 stuff happens to me, I know, to just pick up 0:30:32.120 --> 0:30:35.960 a phone and say, you know, are you sure about this? 0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:40.680 Do you really mean that? Um? But I was young 0:30:40.720 --> 0:30:43.480 and brash and and you know what, Listen that that 0:30:43.520 --> 0:30:47.120 brashness and that that youthful energy that had a lot 0:30:47.160 --> 0:30:50.400 to do with making that album what it is. Okay, Now, 0:30:51.320 --> 0:30:58.360 these are tall guys, and Gene Simmons only has one personality. 0:30:58.840 --> 0:31:00.560 We know, we've both in a racked with a lot 0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:03.720 of household names, and you see, it's a public face 0:31:03.760 --> 0:31:06.720 in the private face. But with Jeanne, what you see 0:31:06.800 --> 0:31:10.520 is what you get. So well, you know what, I 0:31:10.320 --> 0:31:14.240 I reject that. I I think that for many people, 0:31:14.240 --> 0:31:18.640 what you see is what you get. But um, but 0:31:18.880 --> 0:31:21.640 I love Jeene Simmons. I do. And by the way, 0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:25.440 I love Paul Stanley, and uh, both of them are 0:31:25.480 --> 0:31:29.320 really uh they're deep guys. They're really deep. Now with 0:31:29.440 --> 0:31:32.719 jean anytime he's in the company of somebody who's not 0:31:32.800 --> 0:31:36.400 in the inner circle where he's completely comfortable, you're right, 0:31:36.440 --> 0:31:39.120 it's the Gene show. Seven. So if I come with 0:31:39.320 --> 0:31:43.480 to him with um, a friend, it's the Gene show. 0:31:43.600 --> 0:31:48.720 He doesn't relax, he's he's on, he's he does his stick. Okay, 0:31:48.840 --> 0:31:51.320 So but let me tell you this, and I want 0:31:51.320 --> 0:31:53.400 to tell you this. It's important because a lot of 0:31:53.400 --> 0:31:57.040 people think that about him. But when my son died, 0:31:59.200 --> 0:32:05.000 those two guys showed up at the funeral in public, 0:32:06.080 --> 0:32:09.160 and then they came to the Shiva house and and 0:32:09.600 --> 0:32:13.400 Jean and Shannon came came over to me and literally 0:32:13.880 --> 0:32:16.120 they put their arms around me and made a sandwich 0:32:16.160 --> 0:32:19.880 out of me and they just held me. This is 0:32:19.960 --> 0:32:23.760 Gene Simmons and I and they held me and I 0:32:23.800 --> 0:32:26.200 cried there. You know, I stood there and cried, but 0:32:26.280 --> 0:32:30.240 I felt safe. I felt like people that I loved 0:32:30.880 --> 0:32:33.680 we're protecting me, which is the idea of the ship, 0:32:33.880 --> 0:32:37.960 isn't it in the first place. So there's a soft 0:32:38.200 --> 0:32:45.080 and there's a marshmallow loving kind um side to Jean. 0:32:45.520 --> 0:32:49.200 But he's developed this, you know, he's developed this public persona, 0:32:49.320 --> 0:32:52.400 which which is how he's made a living. So it's 0:32:52.520 --> 0:33:01.840 for him. It's worked out really well. So previously you've 0:33:01.880 --> 0:33:04.640 gone to see lou Reid in the opening act was Genesis. 0:33:04.720 --> 0:33:07.840 You became infatuated with the band, and then you go 0:33:07.880 --> 0:33:10.400 on to work with Peter Gabriel. How do you get 0:33:10.400 --> 0:33:13.000 involved with Peter Gabriel who has just left Genesis and 0:33:13.040 --> 0:33:17.840 he's going to make his first solo album. So, um, 0:33:17.880 --> 0:33:21.800 it's interesting, you asked, because I was talking to Tony 0:33:21.800 --> 0:33:25.080 Smith and I said, was it you that reached out 0:33:25.120 --> 0:33:27.640 to me? Like? How did I get to work with Peter? 0:33:28.400 --> 0:33:31.000 And he said, yes, that that it came from his office. 0:33:31.040 --> 0:33:34.600 Now you know why they asked for me. Maybe it 0:33:34.640 --> 0:33:36.800 had to do with the Lou Reid record. I'm not 0:33:36.960 --> 0:33:41.640 entirely sure, but as as I he may have told 0:33:41.640 --> 0:33:43.960 you before. Maybe it's in the first half. I don't remember. 0:33:44.000 --> 0:33:46.840 But when I when I went to see Lou play 0:33:46.880 --> 0:33:49.680 for the first time at Massey Hall in Toronto, the 0:33:49.720 --> 0:33:53.600 opening act was Genesis, and I had said at the time, 0:33:53.640 --> 0:33:56.440 you know, boyl I really want to work with that 0:33:56.520 --> 0:33:58.240 kid with the flower in his head, which was Peter 0:33:58.280 --> 0:34:02.560 Gabriel and um, and I became a little bit obsessed 0:34:03.120 --> 0:34:07.880 with Genesis in general, but with him specifically. So when 0:34:07.880 --> 0:34:10.000 I got the call, when I got the call from 0:34:10.040 --> 0:34:13.680 London saying, um, you know, would you come over and 0:34:13.760 --> 0:34:15.279 meet with Peter. We want to talk to you about 0:34:15.320 --> 0:34:19.320 potentially working with him, I was like, yep, I'll leave tomorrow, 0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:23.600 you know. So um, I got there and I and 0:34:23.800 --> 0:34:27.759 it was an amazing couple of days because it included 0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:31.960 not just Peter, who is a phenomenal guy, like you 0:34:31.960 --> 0:34:35.719 want to talk about a dear friend. Um, this is 0:34:35.760 --> 0:34:38.640 someone you know. Peter and I have have remained close 0:34:39.480 --> 0:34:43.560 like family style friends all these years, for a very 0:34:43.680 --> 0:34:46.960 very long time. And yet we've only worked together just 0:34:47.040 --> 0:34:49.920 a you know, on a few things. It's not a lot, 0:34:50.080 --> 0:34:54.919 but um, but every time it's been very meaningful. So 0:34:55.480 --> 0:34:59.760 we get there and um, I meet with Tony Smith 0:35:00.080 --> 0:35:04.040 Gail Colson, who is the managing director of the label 0:35:04.440 --> 0:35:09.560 that that Peter signed, which is called Charisma Records. And uh, 0:35:09.640 --> 0:35:15.960 and she's the Flying Charisma label. Well yeah originally, but 0:35:15.960 --> 0:35:19.200 then if he just became Charisma, but you're right, yeah, 0:35:19.320 --> 0:35:23.520 and and uh, she's fantastic and and so on top 0:35:23.560 --> 0:35:28.359 of things, but really smart and and and and very 0:35:28.440 --> 0:35:31.239 invested in Peter as an artist. And of course Tony 0:35:31.360 --> 0:35:33.960 is his manager, so he is totally invested. So the 0:35:33.960 --> 0:35:35.960 three of us are talking about Peter and his career. 0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:40.640 Tony Stratton Smith no Tony Smith manager, So those two 0:35:40.640 --> 0:35:42.880 are and we're talking about career. But then I go 0:35:43.000 --> 0:35:46.240 and meet the owner of the label, Tony Stratton Smith, 0:35:46.960 --> 0:35:55.600 who is a well beautifully dressed, incredibly articulate, wonderful English 0:35:55.960 --> 0:35:59.920 gay man with the the kind of verb that all 0:36:00.080 --> 0:36:04.520 and and style that only the very wealthy English game 0:36:04.640 --> 0:36:07.080 and could have, you know. And he was just an 0:36:07.120 --> 0:36:11.120 amazing character. And uh and we we started up a 0:36:11.160 --> 0:36:13.760 friendship that that went on for a few years too. 0:36:13.840 --> 0:36:17.240 But just spending time with him was such a trip 0:36:17.320 --> 0:36:19.560 I loved. Like every time I'd go back to London, 0:36:19.560 --> 0:36:21.120 I would just have lunch with him because I just 0:36:21.200 --> 0:36:23.680 love listening to him and I love watching him. He 0:36:23.760 --> 0:36:27.360 was such a great show. Anyway, So from and sadly 0:36:27.840 --> 0:36:30.960 he's not with us anymore. But so I go from 0:36:31.000 --> 0:36:34.680 London to meet with Peter in Bath, which is where 0:36:34.680 --> 0:36:38.760 he was, where he lived and where he's from. Um 0:36:39.080 --> 0:36:45.120 and um. He picks me up and he's a very sweet, 0:36:45.880 --> 0:36:52.240 very shy, very kind of held back but gentleman. Um 0:36:53.400 --> 0:36:57.840 and uh. And he tours me around Bath to show 0:36:57.840 --> 0:36:59.640 me where he where he came from. He's very proud 0:36:59.800 --> 0:37:03.640 of that place, and it's Roman roots and and the 0:37:04.360 --> 0:37:10.080 kind of mystical connection that whole area has. Um some 0:37:10.120 --> 0:37:13.160 people consider it some the Druids considered it to be 0:37:13.239 --> 0:37:18.640 the the mystical center center of the universe. So anyway, 0:37:18.880 --> 0:37:21.000 so we did a lot of that stuff, and as 0:37:21.040 --> 0:37:24.120 we were spending time doing that stuff, we were relaxing 0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:26.480 and we were coming down to being just two guys 0:37:26.520 --> 0:37:30.400 who were having a good conversation about stuff that we enjoyed. 0:37:30.640 --> 0:37:33.200 He saw that I was interested in things he was 0:37:33.239 --> 0:37:36.719 interested in, and then I knew a fair bit about him, 0:37:36.719 --> 0:37:40.279 and he was very happy to hear that I saw 0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:43.480 that show that tour and that that's where I had 0:37:43.560 --> 0:37:46.239 made the determination that I wanted to do this. So 0:37:46.320 --> 0:37:48.759 we went to his house, a modest house that he 0:37:48.800 --> 0:37:51.480 lived in with his wife, Jill and his daughter Anna, 0:37:51.600 --> 0:37:56.960 who I think was a toddler at the time. Uh, 0:37:57.000 --> 0:37:59.879 And he had a little upright piano in the front 0:38:00.080 --> 0:38:03.799 the house. That we sat down there and started um 0:38:03.800 --> 0:38:06.120 playing stuff. He started playing stuff to me that he 0:38:06.200 --> 0:38:10.120 was thinking about that that um he wanted to put 0:38:10.160 --> 0:38:12.359 on his solo record, and we started talking about just 0:38:12.480 --> 0:38:18.040 sort of you know, lofty, um conceptual stuff, you know, 0:38:18.120 --> 0:38:21.279 theatrical things like how would the show go, which, by 0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:25.120 the way, is something that I do love to put 0:38:25.200 --> 0:38:29.120 before recording in many cases, and I know I'm dealing 0:38:29.160 --> 0:38:32.719 with a theatrical artist, and since I come out of 0:38:32.760 --> 0:38:37.520 theater originally, UM, I'd love to know what their vision 0:38:37.640 --> 0:38:39.759 is for the show and how we can make an 0:38:39.800 --> 0:38:43.319 album that that fulfills that vision. So in Peter's case, 0:38:43.360 --> 0:38:45.799 you know, this is his big introduction. He's stepping out 0:38:46.040 --> 0:38:49.320 and he needs to be taken seriously by the same token. 0:38:49.400 --> 0:38:51.399 He needs to show all the different sides of him 0:38:51.400 --> 0:38:53.399 that he didn't feel he was getting to express within 0:38:53.480 --> 0:38:56.759 the band. So we so we listen to music. I 0:38:56.840 --> 0:38:58.840 hear lots of good stuff, but I hear lots of 0:38:58.840 --> 0:39:01.680 stuff that's not quite right yet. And he's not ready 0:39:01.840 --> 0:39:04.760 from my point of view, And I feel like also 0:39:04.920 --> 0:39:09.920 he's just beginning to get his hands around who he 0:39:10.000 --> 0:39:12.160 wants to be. And so I don't want to rush him. 0:39:12.200 --> 0:39:16.239 I tell the label and management we're not ready to 0:39:16.239 --> 0:39:17.960 go in the studio. I don't want to go in 0:39:18.000 --> 0:39:20.480 the studio with him now. But what I would like 0:39:20.719 --> 0:39:24.280 is I would like him to come back to New York. 0:39:25.080 --> 0:39:28.200 I will rent him a place there, UM, and I 0:39:28.200 --> 0:39:31.520 would like him to spend um a month in New 0:39:31.600 --> 0:39:36.680 York writing, where I can watch and where I can influence. UM. 0:39:36.880 --> 0:39:39.239 He can come and use my piano and my apartment. 0:39:39.480 --> 0:39:43.880 It's perfectly safe and and so that was that. So 0:39:44.000 --> 0:39:47.439 we do we arrange the trip to go to bring 0:39:47.480 --> 0:39:49.880 Peter to New York for a month. So the apartment 0:39:50.000 --> 0:39:53.160 dig this the apartment I found for him, belonged to 0:39:54.280 --> 0:40:01.400 Garson Kanan and Ruth Gordon. Wow, Hollywood Royalty. And for 0:40:01.440 --> 0:40:04.120 anybody who doesn't know, people are listening, Ruth Gordon was 0:40:04.160 --> 0:40:06.480 the was the next the old next door neighbor and 0:40:06.600 --> 0:40:10.040 Rosemary's baby, and Garson Caden was one of the greatest 0:40:10.040 --> 0:40:13.200 screenwriters of all time. But she of course was Maude 0:40:13.280 --> 0:40:15.960 and Harold and Maude, and she was Maud and Harold 0:40:16.000 --> 0:40:20.520 and Maude. She's like, she's legendary. So this was there. 0:40:20.640 --> 0:40:24.120 This was their Chelsea apartment. It was a magnificent, small, 0:40:24.239 --> 0:40:27.759 kind of rabbit warren of an apartment. And why they 0:40:27.800 --> 0:40:29.560 rented it out, I have no idea, but we went 0:40:29.560 --> 0:40:31.799 through show bizz channels to find one. So that's what 0:40:31.880 --> 0:40:36.200 we got. And uh, Peter and Jill and Anna came 0:40:36.239 --> 0:40:38.759 to New York. They stayed there. Peter came to my 0:40:38.880 --> 0:40:43.920 house every day and um, I had a split level apartment, 0:40:44.080 --> 0:40:46.239 so I would go upstairs to the back to where 0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:50.319 my office was and work on other stuff, and I 0:40:50.400 --> 0:40:52.120 left Peter in the in the living room with the 0:40:52.160 --> 0:40:55.560 grand piano with a cassette machine beside him. And every 0:40:55.600 --> 0:40:57.440 time I heard anything I loved, I would run out 0:40:57.440 --> 0:41:00.719 and go record that record that we want to hear 0:41:00.760 --> 0:41:04.920 that again and Uh. Over that period of time, we 0:41:05.000 --> 0:41:09.120 developed a clear vision of what we were hoping to accomplish. 0:41:09.160 --> 0:41:11.359 We talked about the band we'd like to work with, 0:41:11.440 --> 0:41:14.359 we talked about sort of where to do it. We 0:41:14.400 --> 0:41:17.560 sort of laid out our our master plan and we 0:41:17.719 --> 0:41:21.520 amassed a body of material that I felt confident. So 0:41:21.719 --> 0:41:24.080 then he went back to London to finish those songs, 0:41:24.120 --> 0:41:26.600 and the next time we met was in Toronto where 0:41:26.600 --> 0:41:30.480 we decided to do the record at the Nimbus studios 0:41:30.560 --> 0:41:34.279 called sound Stage, and I put together a band for him. 0:41:34.320 --> 0:41:37.919 It was like the Dirty Dozen. It was a group 0:41:37.960 --> 0:41:39.600 of people that I had worked with on other things 0:41:39.680 --> 0:41:42.000 before and then I knew pretty well, along with a 0:41:42.040 --> 0:41:48.040 few people that came from Peter Um and Uh. I 0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:50.480 brought in Tony Levin was my sort of go to 0:41:50.560 --> 0:41:53.080 bass player at the time. Alan Schwartzberg, who was the 0:41:53.120 --> 0:41:58.080 drummer Jimmy Mailan god rest him, who was a brilliant percussionist. 0:41:58.120 --> 0:42:01.560 But to say percussion is is short changing him. He 0:42:01.719 --> 0:42:06.800 was like a soundscape artist with common you know, instruments 0:42:06.800 --> 0:42:10.799 and things. He was a genius. And and I had 0:42:10.840 --> 0:42:16.239 Steve Hunter, the you know, the brilliant Steve Hunter who 0:42:16.239 --> 0:42:19.439 has been on so many projects with me and has 0:42:19.480 --> 0:42:21.640 so much to do with if I have a sound, 0:42:21.880 --> 0:42:24.160 a rock sound, so much to do with that sound. 0:42:25.280 --> 0:42:29.040 And uh, and Peter brought Larry Fast, who I was 0:42:29.080 --> 0:42:34.560 aware of, a great synthesizer. Um uh he was. He 0:42:34.600 --> 0:42:37.200 was an innovator, a synthesizer innovator as well as a 0:42:37.280 --> 0:42:42.040 terrific musician. And and then he said, may I please 0:42:42.080 --> 0:42:44.240 have one Brit. I said, I give you one brit. 0:42:45.000 --> 0:42:47.520 You get one one push right, you know, you get 0:42:47.520 --> 0:42:54.120 one brit. Um. So he invited, um, Robert Fripp. Thank 0:42:54.160 --> 0:42:57.680 you Okay. So I said, I'll give you one brit. 0:42:58.760 --> 0:43:00.839 You gotta push for one Britton. He said, well, I'd 0:43:00.840 --> 0:43:03.160 like to bring Robert Fripp, which is not a punishment 0:43:03.719 --> 0:43:06.279 by any means. So there they were, you know, this 0:43:06.400 --> 0:43:09.799 group of people. And every day we started off in 0:43:09.880 --> 0:43:13.959 Jack Richardson's office where there was an upright piano, Peter 0:43:14.040 --> 0:43:17.279 would sit down. He would play this very complicated piece 0:43:17.280 --> 0:43:21.720 of music that he had finally uh uh cobbled together 0:43:21.760 --> 0:43:23.479 out of the pieces that we did in New York 0:43:23.600 --> 0:43:26.360 and that we had done some work on after um 0:43:27.280 --> 0:43:31.760 and uh and they were like complicated. This was Prague 0:43:31.800 --> 0:43:36.440 with a capital Prague. So this was like and the 0:43:36.520 --> 0:43:38.200 guys in the band, like a lot of them were, 0:43:38.200 --> 0:43:40.560 They were just sitting there their eyes rolling in their head, 0:43:40.600 --> 0:43:44.120 and they would ask him to like what was that, 0:43:44.200 --> 0:43:46.840 thinking the you can you play that again? You know that. 0:43:46.880 --> 0:43:50.200 They were feverishly taken notes. Tony Levin, on the other hand, 0:43:50.239 --> 0:43:54.520 was reading a novel and and like by the first 0:43:54.560 --> 0:43:58.799 time through he had it, he had clocked it, you know. Um. 0:43:58.880 --> 0:44:02.680 And then everybody once they all knew the song and 0:44:02.719 --> 0:44:04.920 they knew what it comprised of. Then we moved into 0:44:04.960 --> 0:44:08.200 the studio and parts were developed in a sign. In 0:44:08.239 --> 0:44:11.680 some cases I had ideas. In some cases we just 0:44:11.920 --> 0:44:14.800 made it up right there on the spot. So we 0:44:14.840 --> 0:44:17.920 would try stuff, you know, rule uh. So you know, 0:44:18.040 --> 0:44:20.880 Peter loves rule sets, and so do I. They're they're 0:44:20.960 --> 0:44:23.600 just I don't mean as a as a restriction. But 0:44:23.680 --> 0:44:26.160 as you know, we liked the five challenges, you know, 0:44:26.600 --> 0:44:29.960 So for Salisbury Hill, I took away Alan Schwartzburg symbols. 0:44:30.480 --> 0:44:33.400 I just took him off the kit altogether, so you know, 0:44:33.480 --> 0:44:36.000 even if he tried to hit one, he couldn't. And 0:44:36.040 --> 0:44:41.120 I gave him a shaker um and put uh t 0:44:41.320 --> 0:44:43.800 towel over his stare drum to develop a certain sound. 0:44:43.840 --> 0:44:48.200 And so and that that that kind of electronic drum 0:44:48.280 --> 0:44:50.400 sound that we had. We invented it right there on 0:44:50.440 --> 0:44:53.200 the spot. We we we decided it needed a name, 0:44:53.239 --> 0:44:57.680 so we called it a synthabam and and I just 0:44:57.880 --> 0:45:00.200 I played that part doom do do doo dood doom 0:45:00.320 --> 0:45:04.560 bom boom boom, bump bump while Larry was playing um 0:45:04.760 --> 0:45:07.279 the more orchestral sounds and things like that, and we 0:45:07.520 --> 0:45:12.640 cut that track live. We cut them all live. Okay. 0:45:12.719 --> 0:45:15.200 This was seen as a very innovative album. I know 0:45:15.239 --> 0:45:18.719 it was different in Canada, but Genesis was not that 0:45:18.960 --> 0:45:22.439 well known such that when the first album came out 0:45:23.080 --> 0:45:26.520 it was almost a debut like Genesis. And Genesis of 0:45:26.600 --> 0:45:31.200 course came out with their Minus Peter album at a 0:45:31.320 --> 0:45:32.880 similar to they came out with the previous one. I 0:45:32.920 --> 0:45:35.759 think Wind and Wutheringe came out at that time, so 0:45:37.520 --> 0:45:41.439 this was a wild album to listen to, as accessible 0:45:42.160 --> 0:45:46.520 as Saulisbury Hill and Modern Love were the Burgermeister and 0:45:46.560 --> 0:45:48.239 all this other stuff. It was like you heard it, 0:45:48.280 --> 0:45:52.880 It was like what is this? And that was all intentional, 0:45:53.400 --> 0:45:56.760 all intentional. Every little bit of it was intentional, including 0:45:56.840 --> 0:45:59.120 excuse me. You know that song excuse Me? It was 0:45:59.120 --> 0:46:02.000 a little ditty that he had written. Tony Levin said, 0:46:02.040 --> 0:46:06.120 you know, I'm in a barbershop quartet. He said, this 0:46:06.280 --> 0:46:08.520 kind of sounds like a barbershop quartet to be and 0:46:08.640 --> 0:46:13.720 I go, that's genius. So we create a barbershop quartet 0:46:13.840 --> 0:46:15.919 out of the members of the band. I didn't hire 0:46:16.360 --> 0:46:19.400 other people. They all learned their parts. Tony helped to 0:46:19.560 --> 0:46:22.080 arrange this thing. In fact, you know, it was basically 0:46:22.200 --> 0:46:26.600 his chart on that. And and also I knew that 0:46:26.760 --> 0:46:30.920 Tony played tuba, had had played tuba in a symphony, 0:46:31.800 --> 0:46:36.440 so uh, we got a tuba, hired a tuba, and 0:46:36.760 --> 0:46:39.080 um and I had Tony played the bass part on 0:46:39.120 --> 0:46:41.760 the tube ins that have on the base and anyway, 0:46:41.960 --> 0:46:44.960 you know, they loved doing it so much that we 0:46:45.080 --> 0:46:47.560 actually took the act on the road in Toronto, in 0:46:47.680 --> 0:46:51.160 the sense that like literally we went on a new 0:46:51.480 --> 0:46:54.960 hazel and Hazelton Avenue and and saying it on the 0:46:55.040 --> 0:46:57.719 sidewalk just to see, you know, people would gather and 0:46:57.840 --> 0:47:02.239 and the the the rap dinner, which which I would 0:47:02.280 --> 0:47:04.400 usually do for projects like this, and just have a 0:47:04.560 --> 0:47:06.959 celebration and a wrap dinner. It was such a great 0:47:07.000 --> 0:47:10.399 experience and everybody had such a wonderful time. I took 0:47:10.440 --> 0:47:13.040 everybody out to a restaurant called Napoleon, which was very 0:47:13.120 --> 0:47:17.160 white tablecloth, very you know, a very high end Toronto restaurant, 0:47:18.120 --> 0:47:21.719 and and and we had bought gifts for everybody in 0:47:21.840 --> 0:47:24.560 the band, which I brought out at a certain point 0:47:24.680 --> 0:47:29.640 during dinner, and and everybody dressed up. Peter dressed up 0:47:29.800 --> 0:47:32.720 in a three piece gray suit with a black shirt 0:47:32.840 --> 0:47:35.920 and black tie and oh, by the way, ball bearing 0:47:36.520 --> 0:47:41.600 uh contact lenses so which over which he wore dark glasses. 0:47:42.239 --> 0:47:45.480 And so you know, we walked him into the restaurant 0:47:45.640 --> 0:47:47.880 and he had his dark glasses on and he and 0:47:48.200 --> 0:47:49.960 the waiters would shout at him because they thought he 0:47:50.040 --> 0:47:54.359 was blind as people do, you know, for for blind people. 0:47:54.440 --> 0:47:57.279 I'd never got that they would shout at him, and 0:47:57.360 --> 0:47:59.040 then at one point they asked him a question. He 0:47:59.120 --> 0:48:02.120 took his glasses off and was looking at them with 0:48:02.440 --> 0:48:06.200 literally ball bearing eyes. And the guy that was taking 0:48:06.239 --> 0:48:09.759 our order, he like threw his pad and jumped back 0:48:09.920 --> 0:48:11.880 and and and had to leave the room. He was 0:48:11.960 --> 0:48:15.239 so shocked. Anyway, it was a fun dinner. Everybody got 0:48:15.400 --> 0:48:19.439 something that was meaningful to them. Frip got a pocket watch, 0:48:19.600 --> 0:48:22.240 gold pocket watch, so he could stand on the table 0:48:22.320 --> 0:48:25.040 and say, and we would say, I say, Robert, what 0:48:25.239 --> 0:48:27.239 time is it? And he would take it out with 0:48:27.320 --> 0:48:30.200 a flourish and tell us the time. Um and Steve 0:48:30.280 --> 0:48:34.240 Hunter got a an electric guitar. I I don't remember 0:48:34.320 --> 0:48:36.920 what everybody else got, but I do remember that I 0:48:37.040 --> 0:48:39.960 bought Tony a tuba and play one a long time. 0:48:40.040 --> 0:48:44.480 So he gets the tuba and I say, gentlemen, excuse me. 0:48:44.800 --> 0:48:48.239 They stood up. He played the tuba and then they 0:48:48.320 --> 0:48:51.120 started singing excuse me as a barbershop quartet in the 0:48:51.400 --> 0:48:56.279 entire restaurant went crazy and applauded. They all gave us 0:48:56.400 --> 0:48:58.520 like a standing ovasion. I said, well, we do two 0:48:58.560 --> 0:49:00.600 shows a night and three on the days. You know, 0:49:00.680 --> 0:49:04.240 please come back anyway, it was just a great time, 0:49:04.440 --> 0:49:07.720 the making of it, the ending of it, the camaraderie 0:49:07.800 --> 0:49:09.759 of it. And as you know, some of those people 0:49:09.840 --> 0:49:12.160 went on with Peter for years and years. Tony still 0:49:12.200 --> 0:49:17.239 with him, okay. And there was a famous story of 0:49:17.400 --> 0:49:22.120 Peter and the wall in the studio. Peter had to 0:49:22.120 --> 0:49:27.279 go up on the wall. No, not the wall, the pillar. Okay. Yeah. 0:49:27.400 --> 0:49:29.600 So the studio had two pillars in it that were 0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:33.880 structural and there there were brick pillars if we were 0:49:33.920 --> 0:49:36.560 doing Modern Love. And I wasn't getting the performance that 0:49:37.000 --> 0:49:39.400 I thought he was capable of, and so I started, 0:49:39.880 --> 0:49:44.000 almost chokingly, saying to him, listen, okay, we got three 0:49:44.080 --> 0:49:47.120 more shots at this, and if you don't get it, 0:49:47.280 --> 0:49:49.440 you're going up the pillar. And he would laugh and 0:49:49.520 --> 0:49:51.759 I would laugh. So and then we tried again and 0:49:51.840 --> 0:49:54.680 I go, you know, that's not what I'm looking for. 0:49:54.960 --> 0:49:57.759 Two more and it's up the pillar and he would 0:49:57.840 --> 0:50:00.320 laugh and I would laugh. And then finally got to 0:50:00.680 --> 0:50:03.840 no more, and I turned to Brian Christian, the engineer, 0:50:03.880 --> 0:50:07.160 who was a big guy, really big, like six ft three, 0:50:07.760 --> 0:50:12.000 muscle bound, a linebacker kind of guy. We went outside 0:50:12.040 --> 0:50:15.800 into the studio. We we had a ladder um Brian 0:50:16.800 --> 0:50:20.560 held him. Brian like took him up the ladder, held 0:50:20.640 --> 0:50:23.120 him in place while we gaffer taped under his armpits 0:50:23.360 --> 0:50:26.000 on the pillar, and then we took the ladder away. 0:50:26.880 --> 0:50:29.440 And there he was dangling by his armpits. And I 0:50:29.560 --> 0:50:33.759 said to the to the assistant engineer Michael. So they did. 0:50:33.840 --> 0:50:35.480 They put the mic up in front of his face. 0:50:35.880 --> 0:50:38.080 We went back in the control room and I said, okay, 0:50:38.480 --> 0:50:43.160 let's try it now. And when it got to the chorus, 0:50:43.280 --> 0:50:47.000 he made he made Peter Theater out of it. It 0:50:47.239 --> 0:50:50.839 was so wonderful to watch. He was flailing his arms 0:50:50.880 --> 0:50:53.320 and his legs and and he went. He was screaming, 0:50:53.360 --> 0:50:56.640 oh the pain, and you know modern love can stray. 0:50:57.280 --> 0:51:00.400 It was great. And that's the performer and sits on 0:51:00.480 --> 0:51:04.920 the record. Okay. That Peter goes on to make two 0:51:05.080 --> 0:51:08.279 more records that don't get as much promotion and don't 0:51:08.320 --> 0:51:10.840 get as much success at least the third, not at first, 0:51:11.320 --> 0:51:14.160 and they have a much thinner sound than you were record, 0:51:14.640 --> 0:51:18.319 begging the question, although you ultimately work with Peter again, Hey, 0:51:18.520 --> 0:51:21.040 was Peter happy with your record? And why did you 0:51:21.120 --> 0:51:25.239 not do a second record with Peter right away? The 0:51:25.360 --> 0:51:29.719 thing about Peter is that, um, he has to see 0:51:30.600 --> 0:51:33.239 he has to see things from all possible sides. It's 0:51:33.360 --> 0:51:38.439 very important to him. And and I was consciously trying 0:51:38.480 --> 0:51:42.440 to break him out of his habit of of overthinking things, 0:51:42.560 --> 0:51:44.560 you know. So I made it fast. I mean we 0:51:44.680 --> 0:51:48.080 did that whole album and and the mixing and everything 0:51:48.160 --> 0:51:52.680 in about thirteen weeks. And for him that was just 0:51:53.080 --> 0:51:57.040 too quick. I barreled, basically, I sort of took charge 0:51:57.080 --> 0:52:01.359 and barreled through his concerns and and he was very 0:52:01.480 --> 0:52:04.400 sweet and very polite, and actually he was having a 0:52:04.520 --> 0:52:07.759 great time. Uh enemy came over and they did an 0:52:07.800 --> 0:52:10.279 interview with him, which which ended up being titled a 0:52:10.480 --> 0:52:13.480 Mumble Free Gabriel, you know, is rocking and rolling in 0:52:13.560 --> 0:52:17.239 Toronto or something like that. He was feeling confident, he 0:52:17.400 --> 0:52:20.320 was feeling like a rock star, and he was and 0:52:20.400 --> 0:52:22.600 you could hear it. He was performing like that. But 0:52:22.800 --> 0:52:26.719 that was a temporary condition, I'm afraid. And when um 0:52:27.640 --> 0:52:30.200 he went back to England and back to his home 0:52:30.280 --> 0:52:34.680 life and um, his more familiar surroundings, he kind of 0:52:34.760 --> 0:52:39.240 reverted a bit back to the um less than completely 0:52:39.360 --> 0:52:43.160 confident guy, and and he started to wonder about all 0:52:43.239 --> 0:52:45.560 the things that he might have done on the record 0:52:45.640 --> 0:52:48.160 if only I had given him time. And I think 0:52:48.200 --> 0:52:50.160 at the same time, you know, Frip didn't love me 0:52:51.560 --> 0:52:54.560 and probably was saying to him, you know, well, if 0:52:54.719 --> 0:52:56.640 you know, if we've done this, we could have experimented 0:52:56.719 --> 0:52:59.080 with that, and that this is too mainstream or whatever, 0:52:59.760 --> 0:53:03.719 and um, you know what happens. It just happens. You 0:53:03.800 --> 0:53:07.080 have a really wonderful time with somebody and then they 0:53:07.200 --> 0:53:10.279 decide that you know, that was great, but now they 0:53:10.320 --> 0:53:13.320 would like to try this instead. And that's what happened, 0:53:13.360 --> 0:53:15.239 you know. And then he had huge success. I mean, 0:53:15.320 --> 0:53:18.120 as as big as my record was, it wasn't the 0:53:18.200 --> 0:53:21.759 biggest one, although it turns out that Salisbury Hill is 0:53:21.800 --> 0:53:27.840 the most enduring of his song. So, uh, at what 0:53:28.000 --> 0:53:31.680 point in this does your marriage break up? Not during 0:53:31.719 --> 0:53:34.200 Peter Gabriel though we were, I mean during your whole 0:53:34.280 --> 0:53:39.800 story here, well you know it was starting it literally 0:53:39.960 --> 0:53:44.479 in and uh, well the reason I'm asking is less 0:53:44.560 --> 0:53:48.879 your personal sturm and drang into what degree was your 0:53:49.520 --> 0:53:52.840 work in the rock and roll lifestyle contributing to the 0:53:52.920 --> 0:53:57.839 breakup of the marriage, Oh hugely? And also my my youth, 0:53:58.120 --> 0:54:01.920 you know, like I got married when we were. I 0:54:02.040 --> 0:54:07.080 got married at seventeen, and and we had our son 0:54:07.239 --> 0:54:10.239 that year because we got married because because Arlene was 0:54:10.280 --> 0:54:16.680 pregnant and um, and so you know, that's just too young. 0:54:16.800 --> 0:54:19.280 I'm sorry, you're just not ready for it. I hadn't 0:54:19.320 --> 0:54:22.000 even really been out, and you know, I hadn't played 0:54:22.080 --> 0:54:25.320 the field or dated or done anything. I hadn't done anything. 0:54:25.440 --> 0:54:28.759 And suddenly I was I was a dad, and I 0:54:28.880 --> 0:54:33.279 had to be a breadwinner. And and somehow I ended 0:54:33.360 --> 0:54:36.040 up in rock and roll, which is not necessarily the 0:54:36.160 --> 0:54:42.320 best lifestyle for, you know, trying to maintain a young family. 0:54:43.040 --> 0:54:45.240 And and you know, and I was susceptible to everything. 0:54:45.280 --> 0:54:47.239 I was like, you know, oh boy, I love the 0:54:47.719 --> 0:54:51.360 you know, all the side, you know, all all the perks, 0:54:51.800 --> 0:54:53.640 you know, from the drugs to the sex, the whole 0:54:53.800 --> 0:55:00.239 rock and roll thing. Um, I participated in. And so, 0:55:01.680 --> 0:55:04.520 you know, in fairness to Arlene, if this was an 0:55:04.560 --> 0:55:08.320 impossible situation, but also you know, we were you know, 0:55:08.480 --> 0:55:10.759 maybe we wouldn't have ended up married together. If we 0:55:10.840 --> 0:55:13.680 had had more time to develop a relationship and really 0:55:13.760 --> 0:55:16.880 understand who we were as people, we may not have 0:55:17.040 --> 0:55:19.640 ended up together. But now we had two kids, and 0:55:21.160 --> 0:55:23.600 so we did the best we could. Um, we did 0:55:23.680 --> 0:55:28.239 a sort of trial separation. I'm making quotation marks in 0:55:28.280 --> 0:55:32.360 the air here. Um, I moved to New York and 0:55:32.480 --> 0:55:35.680 basically we broke down pretty much. Then we did try 0:55:35.760 --> 0:55:38.440 a couple of times to see what it would be 0:55:38.560 --> 0:55:40.799 like if I came back to Toronto, and we gave 0:55:40.840 --> 0:55:45.160 it another shot, but they were short, short forays into 0:55:45.480 --> 0:55:50.320 what was it impossible? Um, you know, an impossible situation? 0:55:50.440 --> 0:55:53.440 So we ended up really breaking up. Then we didn't 0:55:53.520 --> 0:55:58.000 divorce forum several years thereafter, and I took care of 0:55:59.120 --> 0:56:02.759 her and and the kids. We did have some conflict, 0:56:02.880 --> 0:56:08.000 as one does when you're divorced, when you're divorcing, um, 0:56:08.320 --> 0:56:14.080 but we're Arlene is my co grandparent of of you know, 0:56:14.560 --> 0:56:18.360 a wonderful little boy, and co parent with my you know, 0:56:18.520 --> 0:56:21.480 our son Joshua, of whom we are extremely proud, and 0:56:21.640 --> 0:56:24.160 also of our late son David, you know, who we 0:56:24.360 --> 0:56:27.880 still uh dream about and talk about. And we have remained, 0:56:28.840 --> 0:56:31.160 um friendly, and we have a you know, a pretty 0:56:31.239 --> 0:56:35.160 intimate relationship now and you know, as friends, not lovers, 0:56:35.239 --> 0:56:40.120 but as friends. She calls me her husband pretty good. 0:56:40.120 --> 0:56:42.160 I've ever heard that before. Yeah, I mean neither I 0:56:42.239 --> 0:56:46.080 like it. Who blew the whistle? Ultimately? Who wanted out her? 0:56:46.120 --> 0:56:52.520 Are you? It's never mutual? No, I was making her 0:56:52.640 --> 0:56:59.640 really unhappy and I was unhappy. And um yeah, okay, 0:56:59.719 --> 0:57:03.520 so how do you end up working with pet Floyd? So? Um. 0:57:04.200 --> 0:57:06.480 While we were doing a lot of work in London 0:57:06.719 --> 0:57:11.839 with Alice Cooper, I met um Caroline Christie who had 0:57:11.880 --> 0:57:18.240 been working for the legendary Derek Taylor at um W 0:57:18.520 --> 0:57:21.080 A and London, and she was kind of our handler. 0:57:21.200 --> 0:57:23.480 She was doing a great job with with us, and 0:57:23.680 --> 0:57:27.720 she basically knew everybody, and everybody knew her. Um. At 0:57:27.760 --> 0:57:31.720 a point I suggested to my then partners and Nimbus 0:57:31.840 --> 0:57:33.960 that we needed more of a presence in London and 0:57:34.040 --> 0:57:36.120 we should hire Caroline to work with us. So she 0:57:36.640 --> 0:57:41.000 she came to work for us, and she that that way, 0:57:41.040 --> 0:57:43.240 she got to see me in the studio a number 0:57:43.320 --> 0:57:49.200 of times. And um. So when it was time for Roger, 0:57:51.120 --> 0:57:55.960 who by then was now UM Caroline's fiancee, they were together, 0:57:56.320 --> 0:58:05.960 they were talking about their future when you hired her, 0:58:06.040 --> 0:58:10.160 when she involved with Roger? Okay, No, but I was 0:58:10.200 --> 0:58:12.120 there when they met. I mean I wasn't in the 0:58:12.240 --> 0:58:14.680 room it was during that time that they met, so 0:58:16.360 --> 0:58:18.360 I knew that she had you know, she was going 0:58:18.400 --> 0:58:20.560 to date him, and uh, and of course I was 0:58:20.600 --> 0:58:25.040 a big Pink Floyd fan who wasn't at the time. Then, Um, 0:58:25.480 --> 0:58:28.480 they came to Canada for Animals. At the end of 0:58:28.520 --> 0:58:32.720 the Animals tour, they played at either Win Stadium in Hamilton, 0:58:32.840 --> 0:58:37.000 Ontario and blew up the scoreboard. That's a famous story 0:58:37.480 --> 0:58:42.160 with their piro. But anyway, so, uh, you know, Caroline 0:58:42.200 --> 0:58:44.640 called me because we're friends, and she came to a 0:58:44.720 --> 0:58:49.440 barbecue at our house. Um, Roger wasn't feeling well, so 0:58:49.520 --> 0:58:52.160 he didn't attend, but we talked about Roger and about 0:58:52.160 --> 0:58:55.600 her her relationship and how great things we were and 0:58:55.800 --> 0:58:57.560 so on, and she said, you know, why didn't you 0:58:57.600 --> 0:58:58.920 come with us and we'll go out to see the 0:58:59.000 --> 0:59:03.200 show together, and I that I'd love to. So I 0:59:03.400 --> 0:59:06.040 went with a friend of mine from the street who 0:59:06.120 --> 0:59:08.080 was who happened to be a psychiatrist. Was he like 0:59:08.200 --> 0:59:12.640 this massive groupie, you know, this massive Pink Floyd groupie. 0:59:13.080 --> 0:59:16.800 And we got in a limo with Roger and Caroline 0:59:16.960 --> 0:59:20.320 drove out to Hamilton's which is about an hour drive 0:59:20.520 --> 0:59:23.960 a little over an hour and um. During that time 0:59:24.040 --> 0:59:28.040 he was talking about his sense of alienation and um, 0:59:29.040 --> 0:59:31.920 how he had thought about, you know, even like building 0:59:31.960 --> 0:59:34.440 a wall between the band and the audience, et cetera, 0:59:35.120 --> 0:59:38.680 and um. And then they did the show. It was amazing. 0:59:39.080 --> 0:59:41.400 And then after the show he and Steve O. Rourke 0:59:41.480 --> 0:59:43.400 decided to have a fist fight in the in the 0:59:43.520 --> 0:59:47.680 bathroom in the dressing rooms, and Roger cut his foot badly. 0:59:48.240 --> 0:59:52.640 So uh, Dr Biddy, my buddy Dr John Biddy, who 0:59:52.720 --> 0:59:55.120 was a psychiatrist with but a medical doctor like, he 0:59:55.240 --> 0:59:57.400 wraps it up and we're going to the emergency room 0:59:57.440 --> 1:00:00.520 in Hamilton's. So here we go in the limo with 1:00:00.760 --> 1:00:03.000 Rogery Garrell. I would get him the emergency room, we 1:00:03.040 --> 1:00:05.520 get his foot stitched up, and then in the car 1:00:05.600 --> 1:00:09.040 on the way back to Toronto, we get um, we 1:00:09.160 --> 1:00:14.280 get very um uh frank with each other about stuff 1:00:14.520 --> 1:00:16.680 you know you just do at six o'clock in the morning. 1:00:16.760 --> 1:00:20.080 Now you've been you've been through an adventure and um. 1:00:20.440 --> 1:00:22.400 And we talked again about the wall, you know, and 1:00:22.520 --> 1:00:25.480 I said, you know, that could actually be a really 1:00:25.560 --> 1:00:28.480 cool idea. And that was that. That was the end 1:00:28.560 --> 1:00:34.360 of the conversation. So a few years later, when clearly 1:00:34.440 --> 1:00:36.320 things were not going well for them. Maybe it wasn't 1:00:36.320 --> 1:00:38.000 even a few years. Maybe it was just a little 1:00:38.040 --> 1:00:42.480 over a year. I don't remember, honestly. Um he decided 1:00:42.520 --> 1:00:44.680 that he was going to do this project, The Wall, 1:00:45.360 --> 1:00:48.320 which he had written, and basically it was going to 1:00:48.400 --> 1:00:51.160 be a Roger Waters record, that's it, but that he 1:00:51.240 --> 1:00:55.720 did not feel um comfortable in handling the rest of 1:00:55.800 --> 1:00:58.160 the band. He was sure that that was not gonna 1:00:58.160 --> 1:01:00.760 go well. So Caroline said, well, you know, I've spent 1:01:00.840 --> 1:01:02.600 a lot of time with Bob in the studio and 1:01:02.680 --> 1:01:04.680 you guys met and you talked about this, like, what 1:01:04.760 --> 1:01:07.960 do you think about bringing Bob in to help you 1:01:08.080 --> 1:01:11.960 with this? That's how the conversation first happened. Okay, but 1:01:12.600 --> 1:01:15.480 I thought based on prior conversation they'd actually done some 1:01:15.720 --> 1:01:19.400 work before that you ultimately flew over and got involved. 1:01:19.800 --> 1:01:23.200 I flew over one time just to meet with Roger, 1:01:23.400 --> 1:01:26.360 and I went to Roger and Caroline's house in the country. 1:01:26.720 --> 1:01:30.400 Roger played me two projects, one that became pros and 1:01:30.480 --> 1:01:33.560 cons and one that was The Wall, and asked me 1:01:33.640 --> 1:01:36.600 which I preferred. There was no question that to me 1:01:36.720 --> 1:01:38.440 it was The Wall. You know, that that would be 1:01:38.520 --> 1:01:40.760 the one that they ought to do next, and apparently 1:01:40.840 --> 1:01:42.520 he had done the same thing with members of the band. 1:01:42.560 --> 1:01:46.240 They picked that one, so he said okay, and we 1:01:46.360 --> 1:01:49.440 started talking about how to do it, what it was missing, 1:01:50.160 --> 1:01:54.680 what role I ought to play. Um, it was beginning 1:01:54.880 --> 1:01:57.280 to become apparent to me that he wasn't really looking 1:01:57.360 --> 1:01:59.840 for me to get involved in the music. So I 1:02:00.040 --> 1:02:02.560 just had to say to look, you know, if what 1:02:02.720 --> 1:02:05.400 you're looking for as an engineer or a button pusher, 1:02:05.480 --> 1:02:07.560 I'm not the right guy for this, because there are 1:02:07.600 --> 1:02:09.280 other people who could do a way better job of 1:02:09.360 --> 1:02:12.040 that than me. But if what you're looking for is 1:02:12.080 --> 1:02:14.440 a collaborator on the musical side of this thing and 1:02:14.520 --> 1:02:18.160 the conceptual side of it, I'd be thrilled and honored 1:02:18.280 --> 1:02:23.200 to to participate. So we had that famous conversation where 1:02:23.240 --> 1:02:29.000 he said, okay, but um, if you write anything, don't 1:02:29.040 --> 1:02:34.960 expect any publishing. So at that time, it was going 1:02:35.040 --> 1:02:36.960 to be an all Roger, you know, it was gonna 1:02:37.000 --> 1:02:40.840 be an All Roger written, you know, written and performed 1:02:40.840 --> 1:02:45.360 by you know anyway. So um, I just decided to 1:02:45.480 --> 1:02:47.840 let that slip and that we would deal with it 1:02:48.200 --> 1:02:51.200 at a later time. And so then I went away, 1:02:51.280 --> 1:02:53.160 and then they did do some work on this thing. 1:02:53.240 --> 1:02:56.920 They had gotten together in London and at britand you Row, 1:02:57.000 --> 1:02:59.160 which was the studio that they worked out of at 1:02:59.200 --> 1:03:02.080 the time, and next door to which was there there 1:03:02.640 --> 1:03:04.920 p a company p A and lights company, so they 1:03:04.960 --> 1:03:08.520 had kind of a warehouse next door. They started working 1:03:08.560 --> 1:03:12.720 on that, and then they called me, and um, I 1:03:12.880 --> 1:03:16.960 got to London and I was told, oh, by the way, um, 1:03:17.760 --> 1:03:20.600 it's not you and Roger producing, it's you Roger and David, 1:03:22.000 --> 1:03:26.200 which meant that was gonna cut my um, you know, 1:03:26.320 --> 1:03:30.000 my my points and my the the money I was 1:03:30.040 --> 1:03:38.680 working for by a third and um, and then my 1:03:38.800 --> 1:03:40.960 mass probably wrong about that. So I'm gonna say so 1:03:41.080 --> 1:03:48.080 that was gonna cut down the point anyway. So I said, well, 1:03:48.760 --> 1:03:50.400 you know, I actually got I walked out of the 1:03:50.480 --> 1:03:52.520 room and just and I called my lawyer and I 1:03:52.680 --> 1:03:56.800 just was saying, like, you know, like this is insulting. 1:03:57.040 --> 1:03:59.360 Here we go again, well you know, like the like 1:03:59.520 --> 1:04:02.200 the uh the kiss situation. And I was just about 1:04:02.240 --> 1:04:06.640 to say, go fund yourself, and he said, Bob, it's 1:04:06.680 --> 1:04:10.840 pick Floyd, and I went, yeah, you're right. So I 1:04:10.920 --> 1:04:13.479 went back and I'll go okay. And then they said, 1:04:13.640 --> 1:04:17.240 and oh, by the way, um, James Guthrie is going 1:04:17.280 --> 1:04:20.000 to be producing too, And I said, no, sorry that 1:04:20.160 --> 1:04:22.400 I gotta draw the line there. That's not happening. He's 1:04:22.400 --> 1:04:25.960 an engineer. I like him, he's a nice guy, he's talented. 1:04:26.720 --> 1:04:28.960 I'm happy to work with him. He is not producing 1:04:29.040 --> 1:04:32.200 this record. So we had a little bit of a 1:04:32.840 --> 1:04:35.840 conversation about that. And I didn't mean it to hold 1:04:35.960 --> 1:04:37.880 James back in any way. And it wasn't that. I'm 1:04:37.960 --> 1:04:41.280 not um a generous guy when it comes to those things, 1:04:41.360 --> 1:04:45.680 but it wasn't quite appropriate. So that was my belief 1:04:45.720 --> 1:04:47.880 then and I stand by it now. So anyway, so 1:04:47.960 --> 1:04:50.080 it was the three of us we were there. Doesn't 1:04:50.080 --> 1:04:53.240 Guthrie at this point get credited as a producer? Yes, 1:04:53.320 --> 1:04:55.840 at that by the very end he got credit. Did 1:04:55.920 --> 1:04:58.280 he get any did you? I don't know whether he 1:04:58.360 --> 1:05:00.480 got paid for it, but god knows, you know, he has. 1:05:00.760 --> 1:05:03.520 He has stayed on with them as a as a 1:05:03.600 --> 1:05:06.960 go to guy on many many levels for forever, you know, 1:05:07.160 --> 1:05:10.360 so he you know, he I think he did well 1:05:10.440 --> 1:05:13.240 with this relationship and he deserved too, because he was amazing. 1:05:13.400 --> 1:05:17.840 He was a great engineer, very musical guy. Um he 1:05:18.000 --> 1:05:20.360 was exactly the right guy for the project at the time. 1:05:20.840 --> 1:05:24.440 So that's how it started. And um and on the 1:05:24.520 --> 1:05:29.040 first day, on my first day, UM, they had rented 1:05:29.080 --> 1:05:31.680 me a really nice flat. They had given me a car. 1:05:33.880 --> 1:05:36.720 The session call was for ten am. They like to 1:05:36.720 --> 1:05:39.400 work from ten to six. This was all new for me. Boy, 1:05:39.960 --> 1:05:41.920 you know, this was not rock and roll, but I was, 1:05:42.080 --> 1:05:44.200 you know, I was happy to do it. So I 1:05:44.240 --> 1:05:46.200 got in the car and the studio was in a 1:05:46.240 --> 1:05:50.240 place called Islington, just just off the Angel which may 1:05:50.320 --> 1:05:54.600 be the most complicated intersection in the entire civilized world. 1:05:55.360 --> 1:05:59.080 So uh and and and there was no no GPS 1:05:59.120 --> 1:06:00.960 in those days, so no phone talking to me. I 1:06:01.000 --> 1:06:03.640 had a map and I was trying to find row. 1:06:03.760 --> 1:06:07.120 It was impossible, and I just kept going around the 1:06:07.160 --> 1:06:09.400 circles and ending up in the wrong one way and 1:06:09.600 --> 1:06:12.280 all this stuff. It was terrible. I finally found the 1:06:12.320 --> 1:06:14.760 studio and there was no parking because it's a tiny 1:06:14.880 --> 1:06:17.920 little street and all of them had their they're matching 1:06:18.000 --> 1:06:20.360 BMW's lined up in front of the studio. There's no 1:06:20.440 --> 1:06:23.560 place for rita park. So then I found a parking spot. Finally, 1:06:23.600 --> 1:06:25.560 and I by that time I get back to the studio, 1:06:25.720 --> 1:06:31.120 I am frazzled, I'm angry, I'm just and I'm sweating, 1:06:31.400 --> 1:06:33.720 and I, you know, and I come up. I I 1:06:33.880 --> 1:06:35.360 come up the door to the studio and I go 1:06:35.480 --> 1:06:38.360 down the stairs towards the control room, and up coming 1:06:38.440 --> 1:06:41.040 up the stairs is Nick Griffiths, who was their old engineer. 1:06:41.560 --> 1:06:43.800 And and it was but it was almost like meeting 1:06:43.880 --> 1:06:45.600 Igor on my way to the dungeon, you know. And 1:06:45.680 --> 1:06:48.920 Igor looks at me and says, they did this to me. 1:06:49.800 --> 1:06:52.840 You know, I'm heading into the control room. I opened 1:06:52.840 --> 1:06:55.560 the door, and people are not happy. There's a there's 1:06:55.720 --> 1:07:00.080 four guys and Roger staring at the door, tapping on 1:07:00.240 --> 1:07:04.840 his watch. Which was that was it for me? That 1:07:05.000 --> 1:07:08.000 was that was the last straw, right, a guy tapping 1:07:08.040 --> 1:07:10.760 on his watch. I said, excuse me, can I speak 1:07:10.760 --> 1:07:12.200 to you outside for a second. So we went out 1:07:12.200 --> 1:07:16.720 in the hallway and I just I started just yelled 1:07:16.720 --> 1:07:20.200 at him. I said, I already have a father, asshole. 1:07:20.680 --> 1:07:22.720 I will that this is so demeaning, you know, it's 1:07:22.920 --> 1:07:25.360 disrespectful and I will not be treated like this, and 1:07:25.400 --> 1:07:28.240 blah blah blah. And while I'm yelling what I don't 1:07:28.280 --> 1:07:30.360 realize is the guys in the control room they can 1:07:30.440 --> 1:07:31.680 hear it, and the rest of the members of the 1:07:31.720 --> 1:07:35.760 band are going, yes, like somebody standing up to him. 1:07:35.760 --> 1:07:38.240 You know. I didn't know any of this stuff really, 1:07:38.520 --> 1:07:39.960 but I just had to get it out. It was 1:07:40.040 --> 1:07:42.560 just by frustration at the morning. Anyway, I got it out, 1:07:42.600 --> 1:07:44.240 and we came back and I said, now let's go 1:07:44.360 --> 1:07:47.840 back in there and let's work like partners. Okay, let's 1:07:47.920 --> 1:07:50.680 work like collaborators, and let's not do any of this 1:07:50.720 --> 1:07:55.000 ship anymore. And and so we went in and the 1:07:55.360 --> 1:07:58.000 mood of the room it changed remarkably, you know, from 1:07:58.200 --> 1:08:00.600 from when I first came in. Anyway. You know, we 1:08:00.800 --> 1:08:03.400 had our ups and our downs during the making of it, 1:08:03.640 --> 1:08:08.120 we had disagreements and stuff. But our relationship Rogers and 1:08:08.240 --> 1:08:11.000 mine was said at that moment, and from that point 1:08:11.080 --> 1:08:16.240 on it was respectful. It was cordial. At sometimes it 1:08:16.360 --> 1:08:18.840 was it was like friendship. Like he would wake me 1:08:18.920 --> 1:08:20.840 up on a Sunday morning to go to McDonald's with 1:08:20.920 --> 1:08:25.600 his kids, you know, because misery loves company, you know, 1:08:25.840 --> 1:08:27.880 But I mean, seriously, he just you know, he liked 1:08:27.920 --> 1:08:32.960 to hang out and um, and so did I and 1:08:33.040 --> 1:08:34.839 The thing that happened at the end of the project 1:08:34.920 --> 1:08:37.400 that estranged us for all that time is something that 1:08:37.479 --> 1:08:43.120 I regret enormously because because I did love the man 1:08:43.400 --> 1:08:45.599 and I and I loved working with him, I loved 1:08:45.640 --> 1:08:49.559 his brain, I love the challenge of him and uh, 1:08:49.760 --> 1:08:52.519 and it was it was very saddening to me that 1:08:52.840 --> 1:08:58.519 that that relationship died over my misstep. Okay, can you 1:08:58.600 --> 1:09:01.280 tell us what the misstep? Is comfortable with that? Sure? 1:09:01.439 --> 1:09:04.240 The misstep is this? The misstep is this? A journalist 1:09:04.320 --> 1:09:07.160 from in Toronto who had been my friend, the guy 1:09:07.240 --> 1:09:09.200 that I hung out with, was supposed to come to 1:09:09.439 --> 1:09:11.080 l A to see the l A shows at the 1:09:11.800 --> 1:09:16.760 Sports Arena and um. And he called me up a 1:09:16.840 --> 1:09:20.919 few weeks ahead of time and he said, the magazine 1:09:20.920 --> 1:09:23.679 won't let me go. I can't go, and I'm dying. 1:09:24.320 --> 1:09:26.800 And I said, oh god, I'm so sorry, because I 1:09:26.960 --> 1:09:29.800 knew what a fan he was, you know, and we 1:09:29.920 --> 1:09:31.840 were gonna hang out. I was going to introduce him 1:09:31.880 --> 1:09:33.880 to the boys and you know, like this was this 1:09:34.120 --> 1:09:36.360 was a massive thing for him to be able to 1:09:36.439 --> 1:09:39.240 attend it and and review it and all that stuff. 1:09:39.800 --> 1:09:42.200 And he said, it's he said, I can't tell you. 1:09:42.280 --> 1:09:45.080 I'm like, I want to hang myself. It is so awful. 1:09:45.720 --> 1:09:48.080 What am I gonna miss? And I said, I can't 1:09:48.080 --> 1:09:50.479 tell you that David I had signed an n d A. 1:09:52.120 --> 1:09:54.280 And he said, oh, come on, it's just us. It's 1:09:54.360 --> 1:09:58.080 just the two of us. Come on. So I said, look, 1:09:58.120 --> 1:10:00.439 I'm I'm about to sit down for dinner, but I'll 1:10:00.479 --> 1:10:03.519 just give you a like, okay, okay, I'll just give 1:10:03.520 --> 1:10:06.720 you some broad strokes short, but but trust me, like 1:10:06.880 --> 1:10:08.760 you'll get to see it. I'll make sure you get 1:10:08.800 --> 1:10:11.320 to see it, maybe New York or something like. They said, yeah, yeah, 1:10:11.320 --> 1:10:13.479 but I mean, you know, I'm dying. So I told 1:10:13.560 --> 1:10:18.040 him some things about the show. We hung up in 1:10:18.240 --> 1:10:24.160 Billboard the following week. It said, over dinner with Bob Ezron, 1:10:24.439 --> 1:10:29.160 we learned we the journalistic we and it laid out 1:10:29.200 --> 1:10:33.839 some stuff about the show. And I got a seasoned 1:10:33.880 --> 1:10:38.000 assisted letter like immediately from the Pink Floyd office. I 1:10:38.160 --> 1:10:42.240 was told that Roger was apoplectic at this and he 1:10:42.280 --> 1:10:48.840 had every right to be, and and that you know 1:10:48.960 --> 1:10:51.200 they were they were going to take action against me, 1:10:51.400 --> 1:10:52.960 and that I was not to come to the show 1:10:53.160 --> 1:10:55.920 and and I mean it really was serious. It was 1:10:56.080 --> 1:11:01.519 really serious and and you know, I was a naive guy, 1:11:01.640 --> 1:11:05.280 like up until then, nobody ever lied to me before 1:11:05.400 --> 1:11:09.600 like that. Nobody'd ever like, you know, put me in 1:11:09.640 --> 1:11:12.880 a position where I compromised myself. They made me compromise 1:11:12.960 --> 1:11:15.360 myself and then they put me into trouble. I'd never 1:11:15.600 --> 1:11:19.160 had that experience, Honestly, I just thought people were what 1:11:19.280 --> 1:11:22.519 they said they were. There's a rule here, never trust 1:11:22.600 --> 1:11:26.760 writers never. Okay, switching back, there's some stories you told 1:11:26.800 --> 1:11:29.680 me I want to cover. Hey, let's go back to 1:11:29.760 --> 1:11:32.519 the wall and the table read. Well. You know, all 1:11:32.640 --> 1:11:35.160 during the making of The Wall, we were also creating 1:11:35.280 --> 1:11:37.880 what we saw as as the stage show. Right, this 1:11:38.040 --> 1:11:40.640 is another one where thinking through the stage show and 1:11:40.880 --> 1:11:44.519 formed the record in a huge way. And we were 1:11:44.600 --> 1:11:47.920 building models, and we were experimenting with bricks, you know, 1:11:48.040 --> 1:11:50.599 like what would bricks look like? How would they fall over? 1:11:50.680 --> 1:11:52.640 And I kill people? How can we make it go 1:11:52.800 --> 1:11:56.519 up fast and down fast? Etcetera, etcetera. By the end 1:11:56.600 --> 1:11:59.400 of the making of the album, where we were now 1:11:59.479 --> 1:12:02.360 in rough territory, we we had we had not yet 1:12:03.000 --> 1:12:08.200 got into mixing um. We had a table model of 1:12:08.439 --> 1:12:12.120 what the um of what the stage was going to 1:12:12.240 --> 1:12:16.800 look like and UM, well I'm saying, is I realize 1:12:16.840 --> 1:12:18.840 I'm answering the wrong question, But that's okay, you're gonna 1:12:18.880 --> 1:12:20.519 want to hear this. So we had a table model 1:12:21.200 --> 1:12:24.120 of the of the show, and we played the songs 1:12:24.360 --> 1:12:26.960 and moved the little figurings around. We had little men 1:12:27.120 --> 1:12:30.320 that were band members, and we had little model inflatables 1:12:30.360 --> 1:12:32.240 and little models of this and that, and we played 1:12:32.240 --> 1:12:35.160 through the show so that everybody could see it for 1:12:35.320 --> 1:12:39.360 the first time, see the the physical realization of it 1:12:39.520 --> 1:12:41.320 for the first time, and know what it was that 1:12:41.439 --> 1:12:44.559 we had been working on for this length of time. 1:12:44.640 --> 1:12:49.360 And so um, you know, so hard and and it was. 1:12:49.840 --> 1:12:55.120 That was a magical moment because everybody, including us, playing 1:12:55.160 --> 1:12:57.599 it all out like that for the first time, everybody 1:12:57.720 --> 1:13:01.439 saw what we what we knew. We add then back 1:13:01.479 --> 1:13:09.720 to your original question. So, um, thinking about the Wall 1:13:09.800 --> 1:13:12.880 as a theatrical piece and thinking about it as UM 1:13:13.640 --> 1:13:15.719 very much a concept record, not in a loose sense, 1:13:15.800 --> 1:13:19.760 in a very um literal sense, and it was going 1:13:19.800 --> 1:13:22.680 to be a story that took us from beginning to end. Um. 1:13:23.680 --> 1:13:26.240 I started playing with the sequence of things of songs 1:13:26.360 --> 1:13:29.200 and bits of songs that Roger had given me and 1:13:29.320 --> 1:13:32.000 things that we were working on in the studio. UM, 1:13:32.560 --> 1:13:36.240 and I started to see a kind of story arc um. 1:13:36.960 --> 1:13:40.200 And then one night, I don't know it just bam, 1:13:40.479 --> 1:13:44.280 just went off in my head, UM, and I saw 1:13:44.320 --> 1:13:47.320 it all like, so there it is, there's the story, 1:13:48.160 --> 1:13:51.120 and I wrote it down. I wrote it like a script, 1:13:51.200 --> 1:13:53.920 like a film script, because it was easier to visualize 1:13:53.960 --> 1:13:59.000 that way. So it opens up with act one seeing one, um, 1:14:00.360 --> 1:14:03.560 you know, the sound of a bomb falling that that 1:14:03.720 --> 1:14:07.559 does not ignite, and then a baby cries. Now we're 1:14:07.600 --> 1:14:10.040 into the next bit, and we just and I described 1:14:10.120 --> 1:14:13.920 every scene and stuffed the song title and the lyrics 1:14:13.960 --> 1:14:16.000 and their lyrics as though they were dialogues. So when 1:14:16.040 --> 1:14:17.759 you look at a film script, you have a description 1:14:17.800 --> 1:14:20.080 of the scene, then you have the name of the 1:14:20.439 --> 1:14:24.160 of the character, and then you have, in a smaller window, 1:14:24.320 --> 1:14:27.000 you have the words they'd say. So I I use 1:14:27.080 --> 1:14:33.360 that format. And where I didn't have the the song 1:14:33.560 --> 1:14:36.040 yet that told this part of the story, I just 1:14:36.160 --> 1:14:39.360 told the part of the story and said song TV 1:14:39.600 --> 1:14:45.599 W to be written, UM. And it came really quickly, 1:14:45.680 --> 1:14:48.280 and by the end of a few hours I had 1:14:49.000 --> 1:14:52.800 a script for what I what I saw as the 1:14:53.120 --> 1:14:55.560 story arc of the wall, and then I brought that 1:14:55.680 --> 1:14:58.960 in the next morning, made copies, photo copies as we 1:14:59.080 --> 1:15:03.479 had in those days, you know. Um, no, sorry, I 1:15:03.600 --> 1:15:07.000 made I made mimiograph copies as we had in those days, 1:15:07.640 --> 1:15:10.400 and handed them out to everybody, and I said look 1:15:10.520 --> 1:15:15.479 and and um, and I had James ready to play 1:15:15.560 --> 1:15:19.559 the pieces in the order that they were in the script. Um. 1:15:20.240 --> 1:15:22.800 So we did a table read through as though it 1:15:23.000 --> 1:15:25.880 was a movie, and you know, I read and and 1:15:25.960 --> 1:15:28.160 then the song would play and we'd sing on top 1:15:28.240 --> 1:15:29.920 of it, or the lyrics were already there and we 1:15:29.960 --> 1:15:33.720 would listen to it. And it became very clear at 1:15:33.800 --> 1:15:37.280 that moment um what the shape of the story was 1:15:37.360 --> 1:15:40.320 going to be and what we had and more importantly, 1:15:40.680 --> 1:15:43.760 what we still didn't have. Tell us the story of 1:15:43.840 --> 1:15:47.080 the creation of comfortably Numb. It's been told a lot 1:15:47.120 --> 1:15:51.080 of times. Um, well, I want your version, which we 1:15:51.240 --> 1:15:53.880 I've heard from you previously. Okay, Well, then you know 1:15:54.439 --> 1:15:57.840 the the the story of comfortably nom is this that 1:15:58.040 --> 1:16:00.439 that in this script that I had written, there was 1:16:00.560 --> 1:16:05.360 a song, um in d I had noted because that 1:16:05.400 --> 1:16:07.120 would be a really great key to go to from 1:16:07.160 --> 1:16:12.519 the song before um that during which Pink checks out 1:16:14.080 --> 1:16:17.680 and um. And so every day, by the way, we 1:16:17.720 --> 1:16:20.600 would have tea because we're British, and we would have 1:16:20.720 --> 1:16:24.360 tea and tea is at at four o'clock every day 1:16:24.640 --> 1:16:26.760 at four o'clock, come hell or high water, we go 1:16:26.960 --> 1:16:32.719 upstairs to the the the upstairs conservatory and somebody would 1:16:32.720 --> 1:16:35.960 bring us a tray with tea and Vicky's so we'd 1:16:35.960 --> 1:16:37.760 sit there and we talked about what we were doing 1:16:37.840 --> 1:16:39.720 and what we'd have to get done in the in 1:16:39.800 --> 1:16:43.080 the remaining ninety minutes right and in there there was 1:16:43.120 --> 1:16:44.800 a lot that was where a lot of stuff was 1:16:44.960 --> 1:16:48.000 discovered too, because I would throw things out and people 1:16:48.040 --> 1:16:51.880 would make suggested. So I said, as anybody got a song, indeed, 1:16:51.920 --> 1:16:55.160 we need a song in d for this this slot 1:16:56.800 --> 1:16:59.240 and to tell this part of the story. And David said, well, 1:16:59.479 --> 1:17:03.000 you know, I've got this little piece I was working 1:17:03.080 --> 1:17:05.439 on for my solo album, but you know it's not 1:17:05.560 --> 1:17:07.960 quite finished, but you know this might work well here. 1:17:07.960 --> 1:17:11.519 And so he plays that high string part tuned in 1:17:11.560 --> 1:17:16.360 a way I'd never heard before and sounding just like magic. 1:17:17.000 --> 1:17:20.120 It was it was gold dust falling from the sky 1:17:20.720 --> 1:17:24.560 and and but it didn't go anywhere. I mean, it 1:17:24.680 --> 1:17:26.519 was it was a lyric that was not relevant to 1:17:26.600 --> 1:17:29.600 this story. So I said to Roger, you know, what 1:17:29.720 --> 1:17:32.559 do you think about taking this and let's let's get 1:17:33.120 --> 1:17:36.360 let's get the story and over top of this thing. 1:17:36.760 --> 1:17:39.920 And and Roger said, he I'm not writing I'm not 1:17:40.000 --> 1:17:42.760 writing lyrics or a melody to that tripe, you know, 1:17:42.960 --> 1:17:45.960 or something like that, you know, something that was half 1:17:46.000 --> 1:17:49.519 a joke but half not not a joke. And so 1:17:49.880 --> 1:17:51.600 as half a joke but half not a joke, I 1:17:51.640 --> 1:17:53.599 said to him, So you don't really think you can 1:17:53.680 --> 1:17:56.320 handle the assignment? Assignment? Is that? Is that? Is that 1:17:56.439 --> 1:18:01.760 what you're saying? Um? And and he told me to 1:18:01.800 --> 1:18:05.320 go fuck myself, as he often did, and and then 1:18:05.360 --> 1:18:07.120 we went back to work, you know. And a couple 1:18:07.160 --> 1:18:12.320 of days later he came and um and played me 1:18:12.439 --> 1:18:15.439 the demo that he had created for Comfortably Numb, and 1:18:15.520 --> 1:18:18.000 he said, here's your fucking song, you know and and 1:18:18.600 --> 1:18:20.400 and I mean when I heard those, and I had 1:18:20.439 --> 1:18:23.640 the lyrics on paper too, there is no pain. You 1:18:23.720 --> 1:18:28.160 are receiving a distant ship smoke on the horizon. You 1:18:28.240 --> 1:18:31.920 are only coming through in waves. Your lips move. But 1:18:32.080 --> 1:18:35.320 I can't hear what you're saying. When I was a child, 1:18:35.840 --> 1:18:38.800 I had a fever and my hands felt just like 1:18:38.960 --> 1:18:42.880 two balloons. Now I have that feeling. Once again. This 1:18:43.160 --> 1:18:47.280 is not me. You do not understand. This is not 1:18:47.479 --> 1:18:53.080 how I am. I have become comfortably numb, and I've 1:18:53.120 --> 1:18:56.599 got goose flesh right now, like right now, all over 1:18:56.720 --> 1:18:59.599 my body. When I say that to you, imagine when 1:18:59.640 --> 1:19:01.320 I read it for the first time, and I heard 1:19:01.360 --> 1:19:03.920 it for the first time, it was one of the 1:19:04.000 --> 1:19:07.200 most brilliant things I'd ever read in literature, poetry or 1:19:07.479 --> 1:19:12.240 song lyric. It was beyond Okay. Now, the other thing 1:19:12.320 --> 1:19:17.560 you've told me is you have this experience. It's unbelievably successful. 1:19:17.720 --> 1:19:19.599 You're at a pinnacle of your career. You go back 1:19:19.640 --> 1:19:25.360 to Toronto, you expect your phone to blow up and crickets, crickets, 1:19:26.360 --> 1:19:31.400 but nothing after the wall. UM, I decided that I 1:19:31.520 --> 1:19:33.559 wanted to come back to Toronto. I wanted to spend 1:19:33.640 --> 1:19:37.719 time with my kids. I wanted to UM, I wanted 1:19:37.760 --> 1:19:39.240 to lead a more you know, I wanted to have 1:19:39.320 --> 1:19:42.080 more of a home life. And and why not. I 1:19:42.200 --> 1:19:44.800 just had the biggest record in uh, you know, the 1:19:44.880 --> 1:19:48.519 biggest record in the world and maybe the biggest album 1:19:49.320 --> 1:19:51.160 certainly of the last ten years, and it was heading 1:19:51.200 --> 1:19:53.320 on to be the biggest rock album of all time. 1:19:53.600 --> 1:19:55.880 So I would go back to Toronto and of course 1:19:55.920 --> 1:19:57.600 people would call me and they would come there to 1:19:57.640 --> 1:19:59.680 work with me. Of course they would, why wouldn't they? 1:20:00.160 --> 1:20:02.919 And then yeah, like after twelve months, it was Crickets 1:20:03.200 --> 1:20:07.600 and I became Bob Who. And I was working with 1:20:07.640 --> 1:20:12.200 a lot of local talent. Some were, you know, really terrific. 1:20:12.600 --> 1:20:14.760 And I mean I did an album with mariraey McLaughlin, 1:20:14.880 --> 1:20:19.840 really talented folk singer, and UM and I worked on 1:20:20.120 --> 1:20:22.320 with a band called The Kings. We did a single 1:20:22.400 --> 1:20:24.479 called Switching to Glide, which is you know, was one 1:20:24.520 --> 1:20:27.080 of those one hit winner It was a big hit 1:20:27.360 --> 1:20:30.200 UM in the United States, and I brought the album 1:20:30.720 --> 1:20:35.320 did You Kings Are Here? Good Man? Good Man good Man? 1:20:35.800 --> 1:20:40.320 UM And and then Randy Phillips became the manager of 1:20:40.360 --> 1:20:42.320 The Kings and we went in to do the second 1:20:42.360 --> 1:20:46.920 album and uh, Randy Who, as you know, went on 1:20:47.040 --> 1:20:49.920 to UH he ran a g for a while. He 1:20:50.120 --> 1:20:54.880 was Rod Stewart's manager and UH and has you know 1:20:55.000 --> 1:21:00.040 a multitude of adventures in in music land. UM and 1:21:00.080 --> 1:21:03.320 he's a really smart guy and and uh and and 1:21:03.960 --> 1:21:06.479 you know, we liked each other. So he just said 1:21:06.520 --> 1:21:09.600 to me, what the funk are you doing here? Like 1:21:09.720 --> 1:21:11.760 you need to come back out to l A. You know, 1:21:13.240 --> 1:21:17.840 you need to come where the work is. And you know, 1:21:18.040 --> 1:21:24.000 by that time, UM, I remarried and and we had 1:21:24.880 --> 1:21:27.360 a baby girl, and we had all you know, hers 1:21:27.439 --> 1:21:29.840 mine an hour, So now were where we had five kids, 1:21:29.920 --> 1:21:35.120 and um and uh. It was not a trivial decision 1:21:35.200 --> 1:21:38.200 to make, you know, but we all decided we would 1:21:38.200 --> 1:21:40.000 do it. And and really, you want to know, the 1:21:40.120 --> 1:21:42.600 real reason why we decided to go to l A 1:21:42.720 --> 1:21:46.280 was because my parents had already moved there, and I 1:21:46.439 --> 1:21:49.240 was I felt terribly guilty from the time they left 1:21:49.560 --> 1:21:51.439 that they were so far away from their grandkids and 1:21:51.479 --> 1:21:54.120 they were getting to see them very much. So this was, 1:21:54.479 --> 1:21:56.280 you know, this was not a hard decision to make. 1:21:56.320 --> 1:21:58.599 I didn't like l A. I didn't want to live 1:21:58.680 --> 1:22:00.720 in l A. I wanted to go to New York. 1:22:00.960 --> 1:22:03.920 I wanted to go to London, but my parents were 1:22:03.960 --> 1:22:06.240 in l A. So that's where we went. And the 1:22:06.439 --> 1:22:09.960 deal was, we're gonna try it for nine months and 1:22:11.160 --> 1:22:15.160 if Dad doesn't like it. We're gonna go to New York. 1:22:15.520 --> 1:22:18.599 And everybody agreed. Then we got to l A within 1:22:19.600 --> 1:22:22.600 you know, literally, uh four weeks, five weeks, I was 1:22:22.720 --> 1:22:27.360 working with Rod Stewart and stuff just started to happen. Um. 1:22:28.320 --> 1:22:29.840 And at the end of the nine months though, I 1:22:30.000 --> 1:22:32.479 was not liking the experience of living in l A. 1:22:32.600 --> 1:22:34.639 I love the work, but I didn't like living there. 1:22:34.720 --> 1:22:37.800 And I just said to everybody, Okay, um, you know 1:22:37.840 --> 1:22:39.960 what we talked about before, I don't like it. We're 1:22:39.960 --> 1:22:41.920 gonna go. And they all looked at me and went, dude, 1:22:41.960 --> 1:22:46.240 we'll help you pack. You know, like the kids. You know, 1:22:46.320 --> 1:22:49.160 they all had by that time, they had the big 1:22:49.200 --> 1:22:51.479 eighties hair, you know, all the shoulder pads. They were 1:22:51.479 --> 1:22:54.240 all due this and do that. They loved it, they 1:22:54.400 --> 1:22:59.360 loved being there, and so we stayed and it ended 1:22:59.439 --> 1:23:02.720 up being really good for all of us. Okay. Now, 1:23:03.160 --> 1:23:07.479 most producers have a window whether they're essentially done. In 1:23:07.600 --> 1:23:09.720 your particular case, you have a long career. You are 1:23:09.760 --> 1:23:13.480 a traditional producer, whereas today many producers are essentially engineers. 1:23:13.880 --> 1:23:17.760 You get into the concepts, the writing, etcetera. But then 1:23:17.840 --> 1:23:20.920 it does seem to slow down. You have another adventure 1:23:20.960 --> 1:23:23.320 and then you come back and you walk us through 1:23:23.360 --> 1:23:27.800 those changers. Well, you know, when when we were doing 1:23:27.880 --> 1:23:32.080 the Division bell Um and I was I was commuting 1:23:32.200 --> 1:23:34.680 back and forth to do the Division bell First of all, 1:23:34.720 --> 1:23:39.160 that was really wearing um. But second of all, you know, 1:23:40.560 --> 1:23:43.880 nobody was like we we were not working as hard 1:23:43.920 --> 1:23:45.760 as we used to. You know, we were spending a 1:23:45.840 --> 1:23:50.760 lot of time, um, making pasta and having an you know, 1:23:50.880 --> 1:23:53.960 and going out on the river and stuff. Is a 1:23:54.040 --> 1:24:00.439 beautiful studio, great setting, wonderful um. And I was beginning 1:24:00.479 --> 1:24:03.120 to lose my sense of motivation. You know, I felt 1:24:03.120 --> 1:24:06.479 like I was repeating myself on some levels. And I guess, 1:24:06.600 --> 1:24:09.320 I guess it's just like after so many years. At 1:24:09.400 --> 1:24:14.960 that point, this is now twenty four years into the adventure, right, 1:24:15.240 --> 1:24:17.880 I had already started working on some CD ROM stuff. 1:24:17.920 --> 1:24:20.680 I'd already started on technology. I didn't go straight from 1:24:21.280 --> 1:24:24.160 music and then start technology. I've always been a technology 1:24:24.200 --> 1:24:27.679 guy anyway on a certain level. So that was really 1:24:27.720 --> 1:24:29.640 exciting me. Like every time I would be with that 1:24:29.840 --> 1:24:32.760 and those people, like I was just firing on all cylinders. 1:24:32.800 --> 1:24:34.439 But when I was going back to the boat, which 1:24:34.520 --> 1:24:38.240 was beautiful and wonderful, which I loved, and with David Gilmour, 1:24:38.320 --> 1:24:41.160 who I love, and all this, you know, this great team. 1:24:41.600 --> 1:24:44.680 I was kind of in, you know, I felt like 1:24:44.760 --> 1:24:47.000 I was in a comfort zone, and I didn't want 1:24:47.000 --> 1:24:49.599 to be in a comfort zone. So I came home 1:24:49.640 --> 1:24:53.160 and I said, you know, I think I'm gonna I'm 1:24:53.200 --> 1:24:56.080 gonna stop that for a while, and I think I'm 1:24:56.120 --> 1:24:59.560 going to uh go into this technology thing, you know, 1:24:59.600 --> 1:25:03.439 because I believed in interactive entertainment. I was once again 1:25:03.560 --> 1:25:07.679 working with brilliant, amazing people, working with the Monty Python guys. 1:25:07.800 --> 1:25:10.840 You know, I signed them to our company to make 1:25:10.880 --> 1:25:14.400 a series of of c rom games. Um. I was 1:25:14.439 --> 1:25:18.200 already friends with Eric Idol, and I became really good 1:25:18.240 --> 1:25:21.519 friends with Terry Gilliam who you know, you know, Jan 1:25:21.600 --> 1:25:23.160 and I had lunch with him on the last trip 1:25:23.240 --> 1:25:25.640 to England, and I stay in close touch with him 1:25:25.640 --> 1:25:30.160 and he's an amazing guy. UM And Howie Mandel, God 1:25:30.160 --> 1:25:33.600 bless him, another Torontonian, got involved with us to do 1:25:33.960 --> 1:25:36.439 all these educational titles and stuff. I was just having 1:25:36.520 --> 1:25:42.120 a blast and and the creative team and uh technology team. 1:25:42.280 --> 1:25:45.760 These were people that were at the top of their 1:25:45.840 --> 1:25:48.680 game and that's who I wanted to be with. So 1:25:48.880 --> 1:25:52.120 we built a studio in um Burbank. We built a 1:25:52.280 --> 1:25:57.160 large UH animation and in digital entertainment studio. There we 1:25:57.240 --> 1:26:01.040 were doing work for Sony, we were doing work for Disney. UM. 1:26:02.080 --> 1:26:05.960 We invented lip sync on the fly. We had UM 1:26:06.520 --> 1:26:09.479 a new digital income paint program that made it possible 1:26:09.520 --> 1:26:12.240 for us to turn out animation faster than anybody else. 1:26:12.479 --> 1:26:14.920 We had an amazing team and in that building we 1:26:15.080 --> 1:26:21.639 had a couple of hundred young, hungry, energized people as 1:26:22.400 --> 1:26:27.640 as animators and creative directors and UH and engineers too, 1:26:27.760 --> 1:26:29.679 And that's where I wanted to be. So that's where 1:26:29.680 --> 1:26:37.280 I was. What happened was UM Mark Mercuriitis was was 1:26:38.400 --> 1:26:42.679 UH managing Storm Ferguson, who is the guy who made 1:26:42.840 --> 1:26:46.680 all the Pink Floyd artwork except for the wall, which 1:26:46.760 --> 1:26:51.640 was Jerry Scarf. But Storm and his partner Po they 1:26:51.800 --> 1:26:54.439 created some of the greatest artwork and of all times, 1:26:54.479 --> 1:26:57.000 some of the most legendary album covers and certainly all 1:26:57.040 --> 1:27:02.759 of that historical Pink Floyds h So UH they wanted 1:27:02.800 --> 1:27:05.160 to do a CD ram of Storm's work. They wanted 1:27:05.200 --> 1:27:06.960 to get all of his works at him talking and 1:27:07.000 --> 1:27:10.200 all that stuff. And and Mark Uh grew up in 1:27:10.280 --> 1:27:16.760 Toronto and was uh an employee of UM, the two 1:27:16.800 --> 1:27:20.439 guys who owned Sanctuary and UH and A and a 1:27:20.560 --> 1:27:23.080 music manager. I mean he he came to Storm through 1:27:23.560 --> 1:27:27.760 music management. He decided to make it his life's work 1:27:27.880 --> 1:27:30.439 to get me back into his studio. So they came, 1:27:30.640 --> 1:27:33.439 he in Storm to Los Angeles to talk to us 1:27:33.479 --> 1:27:38.160 about doing the Storm project. And he announced me basically 1:27:38.280 --> 1:27:42.160 said you are going back into a studio if it 1:27:42.280 --> 1:27:46.000 kills me. And I said do your best, you know, 1:27:46.200 --> 1:27:50.560 like okay, sure kid, you know. But he was relentless, 1:27:50.920 --> 1:27:55.080 like like unstoppable as he is in life. Merk Mercuriatis 1:27:55.280 --> 1:27:59.400 is relentless. And his latest venture proves that. It's called 1:27:59.479 --> 1:28:04.559 him no this which was the name of Storms design 1:28:04.680 --> 1:28:07.439 company that did all those albums, and in honor of Storm, 1:28:07.479 --> 1:28:17.320 it is called Hypnosis, and and Mark's son is called Storm. Yeah. Look, 1:28:17.360 --> 1:28:19.720 Storm was very meaningful to all of us and very 1:28:19.800 --> 1:28:21.400 dear to all of us. And if you could just 1:28:21.520 --> 1:28:24.679 see my my room here, you will see Storm artwork 1:28:24.800 --> 1:28:30.160 all around the walls of this house. Um. You know 1:28:30.320 --> 1:28:32.800 some that I bought and I also paid for him 1:28:32.840 --> 1:28:38.800 to do a a limited edition art paper addition of 1:28:38.960 --> 1:28:41.439 these of these works, and so out of that I 1:28:41.520 --> 1:28:43.840 got a few artist proofs too. So this is like 1:28:43.920 --> 1:28:46.880 a storm shrine in this house. You know, works on 1:28:46.960 --> 1:28:50.519 a mission, works on a mission, and he starts setting 1:28:50.560 --> 1:28:52.559 me stuff, and he starts calling me in for meetings. 1:28:52.720 --> 1:28:57.320 I think, I uh, I did meet with Iron Maiden, 1:28:57.600 --> 1:29:01.000 you know, based on Mark's recommendation, and it got to 1:29:01.080 --> 1:29:03.360 hang out a little bit with Bruce Dickinson, the lead singer. 1:29:03.520 --> 1:29:06.679 We got on very well, but it's really his band. Yeah, 1:29:06.840 --> 1:29:10.360 but for some reason it didn't work out. But his cousin, 1:29:11.280 --> 1:29:15.559 Rob Dickinson, was the lead singer in CA. And then 1:29:15.960 --> 1:29:19.040 Mark brought me some demos from those guys and they 1:29:19.200 --> 1:29:22.280 knocked my socks off. The sound of Rob Dickinson in 1:29:22.360 --> 1:29:25.760 a way reminded me a little bit of Peter. He 1:29:25.880 --> 1:29:31.200 had that that dusky um, beautiful British Barris Tanner, you know, 1:29:31.400 --> 1:29:37.200 that um that I really loved, and I I guess, 1:29:37.240 --> 1:29:40.240 I guess, you know, Merk infected me with that virus, 1:29:40.320 --> 1:29:43.000 you know, and slowly, maturely like it wasn't gonna be 1:29:43.080 --> 1:29:46.920 my record. But what I consider maybe executive producing we're 1:29:46.960 --> 1:29:49.640 working with the team, you know, and slowly, maturely he 1:29:49.760 --> 1:29:54.679 sucked me into, uh, you know, playing a much larger 1:29:54.800 --> 1:29:57.280 role in the project and loving it. I loved it. 1:29:57.520 --> 1:29:59.799 I loved doing it. It reminded me of the excitement 1:30:00.000 --> 1:30:04.920 of the process, and um, that sort of that lit 1:30:05.000 --> 1:30:08.760 the fire underneath me again. Okay, now, before we get 1:30:08.800 --> 1:30:10.280 back to a couple of records you've done in the 1:30:10.360 --> 1:30:14.240 last decade or so. Philanthropy is a big part of 1:30:14.320 --> 1:30:16.320 your life. Can you tell us the genesis of that 1:30:16.439 --> 1:30:18.960 and what you've been involved in. I was in the 1:30:19.040 --> 1:30:22.559 hospital once, you know, I checked myself in for drug abuse. 1:30:24.200 --> 1:30:27.600 Is approximately when this is approximately in this, you know, 1:30:28.640 --> 1:30:30.560 like when I moved to New York, checked myself in 1:30:30.640 --> 1:30:33.040 a Gracie Square, not the nicest hospital in the world. 1:30:33.120 --> 1:30:36.559 It's a psychiatric hospital. But I wanted to go somewhere 1:30:36.600 --> 1:30:39.400 where they locked the doors and I wanted to stop 1:30:40.000 --> 1:30:44.440 doing drugs. So I'm in a room, and in psychiatric 1:30:44.520 --> 1:30:47.000 hospitals there's a window on your door. You don't get 1:30:47.040 --> 1:30:50.240 to be behind closed doors, right people, People can observe you, 1:30:51.280 --> 1:30:53.720 and your name's on the door up front. Now, of course, 1:30:53.840 --> 1:30:57.200 I moved in with a harpsichord, and I had, you know, 1:30:57.400 --> 1:30:59.000 and I had a guitar. And I mean it was 1:30:59.120 --> 1:31:01.799 like I was air to not to not get in trouble, 1:31:02.160 --> 1:31:05.400 but I wasn't there um to stop thinking and creating 1:31:05.439 --> 1:31:07.840 and making music. So I was kind of doing both. 1:31:08.000 --> 1:31:10.439 So I spent a lot of time with the door closed. However, 1:31:11.560 --> 1:31:14.160 several times a day an old man would come by 1:31:14.479 --> 1:31:16.679 and look at me through the window and just stare 1:31:16.720 --> 1:31:19.800 at me, and then he would turn around and go away. 1:31:20.080 --> 1:31:21.880 So one day he came and he looked at me 1:31:21.920 --> 1:31:25.960 and stared at me, and I opened the door to say, 1:31:27.200 --> 1:31:31.240 can I help you, sir? And he said, you know 1:31:31.360 --> 1:31:37.639 what means the name? And I said, uh no, not really. 1:31:37.760 --> 1:31:42.800 He said it means the helper, and then he turned 1:31:42.840 --> 1:31:46.320 around and walked down the hall with his his ship 1:31:46.479 --> 1:31:50.639 stained ass showing through his you know, through those medical 1:31:50.920 --> 1:31:53.479 those embarrassing medical robes that they would dress people in. 1:31:54.800 --> 1:31:59.320 And that hit me like a ton of bricks. But 1:32:01.240 --> 1:32:03.840 that's only just an illustration. Why, you know, where is it? 1:32:03.960 --> 1:32:06.559 What does it come from? It's baked in, man, It's baked. 1:32:06.680 --> 1:32:08.439 First of all, It's baked into us as a people. 1:32:10.240 --> 1:32:13.680 My grandparents used to put food on the on the 1:32:13.760 --> 1:32:16.760 doorstep for what they would refer to as the poor 1:32:16.960 --> 1:32:22.559 family during the depression when they had nothing. And Um 1:32:23.280 --> 1:32:26.400 and my great grandfather into whose house I was born actually, 1:32:26.600 --> 1:32:29.280 and when they would have the high holidays, we would 1:32:29.320 --> 1:32:32.160 come over and we'd open the cellar door. We had 1:32:32.280 --> 1:32:34.600 sellers in those days, and there was a tin a 1:32:34.720 --> 1:32:40.440 tin um box on the door that said uh sedaka, 1:32:40.600 --> 1:32:42.639 and you would have to you would have to put 1:32:42.680 --> 1:32:46.920 money in the box before um, before the holiday would start. 1:32:48.080 --> 1:32:51.559 And and my father was a doctor and a healer, 1:32:51.800 --> 1:32:56.600 and my mother opened our home to every stray in 1:32:56.840 --> 1:32:59.679 not just the neighborhood, but from you know, all walks 1:32:59.720 --> 1:33:02.400 of and from all corners of the world. So I 1:33:02.560 --> 1:33:05.760 grew up with that this was normal. Normal is you 1:33:05.880 --> 1:33:08.160 open your home, you open your heart, you do what 1:33:08.280 --> 1:33:11.240 you can to help people. Well, I certainly know you're 1:33:11.280 --> 1:33:14.439 involved with the Mr. Holland's Opus Foundation, but you also 1:33:14.560 --> 1:33:19.080 started music rising with Edge from you too. How do 1:33:19.160 --> 1:33:22.360 you even know Edge? And you know, as I said 1:33:22.400 --> 1:33:25.000 at the beginning of our first podcast, you're the straw 1:33:25.120 --> 1:33:27.960 that stirs the drink. I mean, you sit at home 1:33:28.040 --> 1:33:29.320 and all of a sudden you have ideas and you 1:33:29.439 --> 1:33:33.120 just start ringing people up. Yeah, you know what, Sometimes 1:33:33.200 --> 1:33:36.040 I've just bumped into somebody and then I have the idea, 1:33:36.479 --> 1:33:39.160 you know, because my dad used to say, like when 1:33:39.200 --> 1:33:42.240 we were little kids, when we had company over, and 1:33:42.320 --> 1:33:44.400 it was almost always relatives, right that would come over 1:33:44.479 --> 1:33:47.080 to our house, my dad would come upstairs and wake 1:33:47.200 --> 1:33:51.160 us up literally to come downstairs and sing for the relatives, 1:33:51.520 --> 1:33:55.120 and and we would go. And my dad would always 1:33:55.160 --> 1:33:57.519 say this phrase, and he said it until the day died. 1:33:57.960 --> 1:34:02.479 This moment will never come again. This moment will never 1:34:02.600 --> 1:34:05.639 come again. So down we would go because that moment 1:34:05.720 --> 1:34:07.960 would never come again, and we had to say and 1:34:08.160 --> 1:34:10.600 and in a way, that's how, you know, that's a 1:34:10.720 --> 1:34:13.000 little bit of how I live my life. You know, 1:34:13.240 --> 1:34:15.360 this moment will never come again. And so when I 1:34:15.479 --> 1:34:18.920 bump into somebody and and I just suddenly I just 1:34:18.960 --> 1:34:23.160 see all the potential of the of the encounter, and 1:34:23.320 --> 1:34:25.840 I go for it. Why not, this moment will never 1:34:25.920 --> 1:34:28.600 come again. I may never see them again. Bob is 1:34:28.680 --> 1:34:32.760 understating it because he's really very heavily involved in philanthropy, 1:34:33.080 --> 1:34:35.600 and you might bump into him yourself. Okay, well, you 1:34:35.880 --> 1:34:38.680 may bump into me. But so Katrina happens and we're 1:34:38.720 --> 1:34:43.320 watching it on television. It is, uh, you know, next 1:34:43.400 --> 1:34:46.040 to the next to Night eleven. It's just one of 1:34:46.120 --> 1:34:49.160 the most devastating things you can see in real time, 1:34:50.000 --> 1:34:55.120 happening right before your eyes in a major city in America. 1:34:56.360 --> 1:34:59.559 And it's not just any city. It's the magic city 1:35:00.120 --> 1:35:04.799 that my uncle, the jazz fanatic, used to play records 1:35:04.920 --> 1:35:07.320 from and tell me stories about, and I used to 1:35:07.600 --> 1:35:10.719 dream of as a place where that's where music lived, 1:35:10.800 --> 1:35:13.200 you know, And and it is a place that the 1:35:13.360 --> 1:35:16.439 members of you two also were, you know, that they 1:35:16.479 --> 1:35:18.240 were in love with and they'd actually gone there and 1:35:18.360 --> 1:35:21.599 worked and stuff. Because it is it is the heart 1:35:21.960 --> 1:35:27.040 of jazz, rhythm and blues rock, you name it. Everything 1:35:27.160 --> 1:35:30.840 comes from West Africa, through the Caribbean, in through that 1:35:31.000 --> 1:35:35.439 port and into America most everything. So when we're watching 1:35:35.560 --> 1:35:39.080 it go under water and we're watching people die, we're 1:35:39.120 --> 1:35:42.080 watching people on rooftops saying please save me and stuff, 1:35:42.560 --> 1:35:48.519 it just it. First of all, I cried watching and secondly, 1:35:48.840 --> 1:35:51.200 then I got really angry because I didn't see the 1:35:51.240 --> 1:35:53.479 response that I wanted to see from the US government. 1:35:53.520 --> 1:35:56.240 It was, as you recall, you know, people were sort 1:35:56.280 --> 1:36:00.639 of saying, well, you know doing you're doing a good job. 1:36:00.840 --> 1:36:04.839 Whatever he said said about Brownie, Hell, heck of a job, Brownie, 1:36:04.920 --> 1:36:08.719 That's what So UM I was planning to do something, 1:36:09.000 --> 1:36:13.439 and then I got a call from Marty Albertson, who 1:36:13.840 --> 1:36:16.240 at the time was the chairman and CEO of Guitar 1:36:16.320 --> 1:36:19.680 Center and sat on the board with me of the 1:36:19.800 --> 1:36:22.680 Mr Hollins Opus Foundation and knew a bit about me 1:36:22.800 --> 1:36:25.360 and sort of the other things that I was doing, 1:36:25.600 --> 1:36:27.519 and so he called me up and he said, look, 1:36:27.560 --> 1:36:31.760 Henry Jessquits, who who owns Gibson Guitars. He wants to 1:36:31.880 --> 1:36:35.720 make uh commemorative guitar and sell a million dollars worth 1:36:35.800 --> 1:36:39.680 of it. And he wants to UM buy instruments and 1:36:39.720 --> 1:36:43.479 give them to people there who have lost their their 1:36:43.560 --> 1:36:46.439 musical instruments in the flood, which sounded like a pretty 1:36:46.479 --> 1:36:49.160 good idea, except for the part about giving instruments to people, 1:36:49.280 --> 1:36:51.240 because we didn't know how we were going to be 1:36:51.320 --> 1:36:53.640 able to do that. But h I said, well, let 1:36:53.800 --> 1:36:55.160 let me think about it and I'll call you back. 1:36:55.280 --> 1:36:57.760 At the time, I was also on the board UH 1:36:58.040 --> 1:37:02.479 the l A chapter board of NERO and UM and 1:37:02.560 --> 1:37:05.320 it was a trustee. Um, so I was here. You know, 1:37:05.439 --> 1:37:08.160 I had a relationship with the people in Music Cares, 1:37:08.360 --> 1:37:10.680 and I called up Kristin Manson, who was running Music 1:37:10.720 --> 1:37:13.240 Cares at the time, and I just said, listen, um, 1:37:13.680 --> 1:37:17.360 I know you guys are sending money to UH your 1:37:17.439 --> 1:37:20.839 members out there. How many people have lost their instruments? 1:37:21.760 --> 1:37:23.920 And she said, that's a really good question. I don't know. 1:37:24.640 --> 1:37:27.840 So up till then, they've had about fifteen hundred requests 1:37:27.920 --> 1:37:30.720 for support. They went back to everybody, and she came 1:37:30.760 --> 1:37:32.840 back to me literally a few days later and said, 1:37:33.200 --> 1:37:38.200 there's people who have lost their instruments. So then I thought, well, 1:37:38.920 --> 1:37:42.960 a million dollars, give or take a little, that's a 1:37:43.000 --> 1:37:47.360 thousand dollars of person. So I said to Marty, Marty, 1:37:47.920 --> 1:37:52.960 if we gave people a thousand dollars and they shopped 1:37:53.200 --> 1:37:57.479 wholesale or at at your cost for instruments, what could 1:37:57.520 --> 1:38:00.240 they buy with that? And he God bless Marty. We 1:38:00.360 --> 1:38:03.880 went from that conversation to tell you what, I'll give 1:38:03.920 --> 1:38:07.080 you the first two dollars of the sale of these guitars, 1:38:07.120 --> 1:38:09.920 which hadn't even been built yet. I'll give you that money. 1:38:10.600 --> 1:38:12.680 And oh, by the way, I'm going to create a 1:38:12.760 --> 1:38:16.640 dedicated on line for you at musicians Friend, which is 1:38:16.680 --> 1:38:20.200 the online service of Guitar Center, that these people can call, 1:38:20.479 --> 1:38:22.680 they can give him a code. Those people will help 1:38:22.760 --> 1:38:24.720 them buy the instrument and we'll ship it to them 1:38:24.960 --> 1:38:33.120 wherever they are. Couldn't be better. So um, that same time, 1:38:33.240 --> 1:38:36.000 right about that same time, you two was playing Toronto, 1:38:36.280 --> 1:38:40.840 and and Michael Cole and I were invited to lunch 1:38:40.920 --> 1:38:44.080 with the band because you know, we sort of knew 1:38:44.120 --> 1:38:47.320 some of the people involved. And so we went to 1:38:47.479 --> 1:38:50.960 lunch and Roger mcnabee was at that lunch, the guy 1:38:51.040 --> 1:38:54.519 that that you would started Elevation Partners with Bono. Yes, 1:38:54.960 --> 1:39:01.200 and um and uh, and so was Jimmy Ivy. So 1:39:01.360 --> 1:39:03.519 he's out at the table and and they sat me 1:39:03.640 --> 1:39:07.439 next to the edge, who I loved. I thought, you know, 1:39:08.200 --> 1:39:10.080 he was really fun to sit with. He was he 1:39:10.200 --> 1:39:12.240 had a great sense of humor, he was easy to 1:39:12.360 --> 1:39:15.519 talk to, he was comfortable. We got laughing. He says 1:39:15.600 --> 1:39:17.720 to me, you know, the first single I ever bought 1:39:17.760 --> 1:39:19.920 with schools up. And I said, you're kidding me, and 1:39:20.000 --> 1:39:22.120 he said, nope, first single I ever bought. And that's 1:39:22.120 --> 1:39:24.600 why I'm in the music business. Then Bono chirps up 1:39:24.640 --> 1:39:28.120 and he goes, actually I stole it, but it was 1:39:28.240 --> 1:39:31.800 my first single or something like, you know. And then 1:39:32.120 --> 1:39:36.280 and then Jimmy I having uh chimes in because Jimmy's 1:39:36.360 --> 1:39:40.360 first gig was at the Record Plan and they put 1:39:40.520 --> 1:39:43.840 him on Alice Cooper as an assistant engineer basically a 1:39:43.920 --> 1:39:47.400 runner under me, because they figured if he could survive me, 1:39:47.520 --> 1:39:51.519 he could survive anything I used to break in their guys, right, 1:39:51.800 --> 1:39:55.080 and he was amazing. He was just like quick witted, 1:39:55.280 --> 1:39:59.479 smart Jimmy Shoes That is exactly right. We named him 1:39:59.560 --> 1:40:01.360 Jimmy Shoe is because he always showed up in different 1:40:01.360 --> 1:40:03.840 you know, he had he had styled. Jimmy had style 1:40:04.640 --> 1:40:07.600 and uh and of course you know he went on 1:40:07.760 --> 1:40:10.760 to be more successful than any of us by a mile. 1:40:11.320 --> 1:40:13.720 But um, so they were all in the room and 1:40:13.760 --> 1:40:15.920 they were just talking about Alice Cooper and this and that, 1:40:16.479 --> 1:40:20.960 and then that gave me the uh, let's say it 1:40:21.040 --> 1:40:22.600 gave me the confidence to be able to turn to 1:40:22.760 --> 1:40:24.840 edge and say, Okay, look, I'm I'm gonna do this 1:40:25.040 --> 1:40:28.720 thing for the people in New Orleans, and I want 1:40:28.760 --> 1:40:34.639 to know if you'd like to play too. Um. At first, 1:40:34.720 --> 1:40:36.320 what I said to was, do you have any guitars 1:40:36.400 --> 1:40:38.439 we could sell, you know, and like make some money, 1:40:38.520 --> 1:40:40.320 Like guitars you're not using that we could sell and 1:40:40.400 --> 1:40:43.240 make some money. And he goes, I'll do you better 1:40:43.320 --> 1:40:46.439 than that, and he said, give me your number and 1:40:46.479 --> 1:40:48.639 I'll call you on the weekend. So I gave him 1:40:48.680 --> 1:40:52.360 my home number and and left the lunch, figuring that 1:40:52.520 --> 1:40:54.560 was just another rock star moment, you know, where you 1:40:54.600 --> 1:40:56.559 give up your number and you never hear from anybody 1:40:56.600 --> 1:41:00.920 ever again. Saturday afternoon, we're we're barbecuing and I get 1:41:00.920 --> 1:41:04.599 a phone call. Hey, Bob, it's the Edge, And okay, 1:41:04.760 --> 1:41:08.640 now I've spoken to Yamaha, I've spoken to this manufacturer 1:41:08.640 --> 1:41:10.760 and that manufacturer, and they're willing to do this, and 1:41:10.800 --> 1:41:12.760 they're willing to do that. And what I think we 1:41:12.920 --> 1:41:16.240 ought to do is we ought to uh coordinate with Marty, 1:41:16.400 --> 1:41:18.559 and we ought to and I knew at that moment 1:41:18.760 --> 1:41:22.200 he was in So I said, you know what, buddy, 1:41:23.840 --> 1:41:26.240 let's be partners, you know, let's do this together. And 1:41:26.680 --> 1:41:29.200 he said, you know, i'd love to. I'd be honored 1:41:29.280 --> 1:41:31.960 to be able to do something for that place, you know. 1:41:32.200 --> 1:41:36.080 And so from there it just exploded quickly. We called 1:41:36.160 --> 1:41:40.880 up UH micro Pino and Arthur Foco Uh from Live 1:41:41.000 --> 1:41:43.840 Nation and at that point that company was called spin Coo. 1:41:44.040 --> 1:41:48.160 It had just been spun out of Clear Channel and UM, 1:41:49.240 --> 1:41:51.200 and we asked him for a dollar on a ticket 1:41:52.200 --> 1:41:54.880 help us. To raise money. We hit up the Bush 1:41:54.920 --> 1:41:58.920 Clinton Fund, which had been established just for stuff like this, 1:41:59.479 --> 1:42:03.720 because you two had a connection through UH one of 1:42:03.760 --> 1:42:07.759 Clinton's aids, and they gave us five hundred thousand dollars. 1:42:08.080 --> 1:42:11.360 The Buffett family gave us money. UH. Suddenly people were 1:42:11.400 --> 1:42:13.519 giving us money and we were and we were now 1:42:13.680 --> 1:42:18.759 able not just to fulfill the needs of the musicians 1:42:18.800 --> 1:42:20.560 who have lost instruments, but now we could go and 1:42:20.680 --> 1:42:24.240 help the churches, the community centers, and later on a 1:42:24.320 --> 1:42:28.200 little while down line, we could help schools. Over over time, 1:42:28.360 --> 1:42:31.599 we raised well over seven million dollars. We got instruments 1:42:31.640 --> 1:42:34.040 to everybody that needed it. We still had a million 1:42:34.120 --> 1:42:38.000 dollars left, and so I went to Tulane University and 1:42:38.400 --> 1:42:42.240 UM we created a course of study in music rising 1:42:42.360 --> 1:42:45.679 the musical cultures of the Gulf South. So the idea 1:42:45.880 --> 1:42:48.880 was that when it happens again, because it's not a 1:42:48.960 --> 1:42:52.080 matter of if we all know that that this music 1:42:52.160 --> 1:42:54.840 would never be lost. We were going to digitize it. 1:42:55.160 --> 1:42:57.240 We were gonna get videos of the people who played it. 1:42:57.520 --> 1:43:00.400 We're gonna we're gonna make it something that people could 1:43:00.439 --> 1:43:03.599 study till the end of time. And and it's there, 1:43:03.600 --> 1:43:07.800 and it's been up for years. Okay, So at this 1:43:08.040 --> 1:43:10.639 point in time, I'm not talking about going back through 1:43:10.680 --> 1:43:13.720 your career. What do you see yourself as you see 1:43:13.720 --> 1:43:19.280 yourself as a record producer? Again, that's very funny. What 1:43:19.360 --> 1:43:21.479 do I see myself as you know? I see myself 1:43:21.560 --> 1:43:23.840 as you keep you keep using the term alta kacker. 1:43:23.960 --> 1:43:27.360 That's me for your I see myself as you know, 1:43:27.520 --> 1:43:29.840 as a capetchy old jew. You know, I got a 1:43:29.880 --> 1:43:35.559 headache and my back and my knees. And um, I've 1:43:35.680 --> 1:43:39.800 never said I am a record producer. In fact, I 1:43:39.960 --> 1:43:43.439 was conscious about that because, um, people would say that 1:43:43.520 --> 1:43:44.880 stuff like, well you know, what do you do? Well, 1:43:45.000 --> 1:43:47.360 I am this, And I would think to myself, well, 1:43:47.439 --> 1:43:49.960 you that's not what you are, it's what you do. 1:43:50.479 --> 1:43:52.559 So people say, well what do you do? I say, well, 1:43:52.720 --> 1:43:56.519 you know, I'm uh, I'm in the music business. I 1:43:56.640 --> 1:44:00.760 produced stuff, I produced other kinds of entertainment to and uh. 1:44:01.080 --> 1:44:04.840 But also I'm in education, I'm in um a little 1:44:04.840 --> 1:44:10.479 bit in um uh civil rights and justice and water 1:44:11.080 --> 1:44:14.800 and and I'm a big time right now evangelists for 1:44:14.840 --> 1:44:19.519 the environment. Okay, so yes, you are involved all kinds 1:44:19.560 --> 1:44:23.320 of things. You had ling ling Uh and Metallica hooked 1:44:23.439 --> 1:44:25.759 up for the Grand we did. We did the Grammys. 1:44:25.800 --> 1:44:28.400 That was fun, that was okay. You just had a 1:44:28.520 --> 1:44:31.880 huge success with Andrea Bocelli, a record that was long 1:44:32.000 --> 1:44:35.040 in the birth thing. And you've also worked with Fish. 1:44:35.680 --> 1:44:38.760 How many albums you've done with Fish at this point? Um? 1:44:38.960 --> 1:44:41.280 I did two albums with Fish and how did that 1:44:41.400 --> 1:44:45.000 come together? So? Um, they were getting to a point 1:44:45.040 --> 1:44:47.160 where they were gonna make records again. I think they'd 1:44:47.200 --> 1:44:49.679 had a little bit of a hiatus and they wanted 1:44:49.680 --> 1:44:55.080 to do something serious. Page Um, the keyboard players, was 1:44:55.160 --> 1:44:58.360 a big fan of my work. He knew who I was, 1:44:59.120 --> 1:45:02.000 So when they were thinking about who maybe to work with, 1:45:02.160 --> 1:45:05.360 I guess my name got thrown into the hat. And um, 1:45:06.760 --> 1:45:09.760 and I know um some of the people from Red Light. 1:45:09.960 --> 1:45:14.040 So I had done the Pete Seeger ninetieth birthday celebration 1:45:14.080 --> 1:45:17.519 at Madison Square Garden where we had Dave Matthews and 1:45:18.120 --> 1:45:19.720 a bunch of other people. So I had worked with 1:45:19.880 --> 1:45:23.160 Corin on stuff like that. You know, I guess you know, 1:45:23.280 --> 1:45:25.880 mine was a familiar name. So somebody said, well, why 1:45:25.920 --> 1:45:28.479 don't we meet him? I went to Dick Sporting Goods 1:45:28.640 --> 1:45:33.280 in Alfaretta, Georgia, and and to tell you the truth, 1:45:33.520 --> 1:45:37.559 the reason I went really was because my granddaughter Zoe 1:45:38.160 --> 1:45:42.040 was living in Alfaretta, Georgia at the time, and this 1:45:42.200 --> 1:45:46.120 gave me an opportunity, opportunity to go see her spend 1:45:46.200 --> 1:45:48.519 time with her because it was hard to get to Georgia. 1:45:48.600 --> 1:45:50.400 You know, it was not sort of on my beaten 1:45:50.479 --> 1:45:52.439 path to see her and spend time with her and 1:45:52.520 --> 1:45:53.880 have her come to a show with me and just 1:45:53.960 --> 1:45:58.080 like really have a great bonding experience with my beautiful girl. 1:45:58.439 --> 1:46:01.200 So I said, okay, I'll do it, and then uh 1:46:01.840 --> 1:46:04.599 and Zoe came with me that we had dinner with them. 1:46:05.000 --> 1:46:07.639 I didn't realize that bringing my granddaughter was a really 1:46:07.760 --> 1:46:11.200 big plus to these guys. They're real family guys. Their 1:46:11.280 --> 1:46:14.760 kids roll around sound check, you know, they love to 1:46:15.600 --> 1:46:17.719 they love to bring their whole families on the road. 1:46:18.160 --> 1:46:23.080 They're very, very human and um and you know, they're 1:46:23.120 --> 1:46:27.720 good Vermont boys. You know, they're just like really nice, progressive, 1:46:28.000 --> 1:46:31.880 family oriented guys. So they like me, and we had 1:46:31.920 --> 1:46:34.280 really good conversations. Another one of those, a little bit 1:46:34.400 --> 1:46:39.360 like the Purple conversation, UM, where I just said, you know, 1:46:39.439 --> 1:46:41.720 what I saw on stage side is amazing, and we're 1:46:41.720 --> 1:46:43.400 gonna need to try and get that. Let's not be 1:46:44.160 --> 1:46:47.080 let's not be limited by lengths of songs or any 1:46:47.120 --> 1:46:49.160 of that other stuff. Let's just really go for it. 1:46:50.000 --> 1:46:52.719 I went to Vermont and work with them in their barn, 1:46:53.520 --> 1:46:57.280 and we spent weeks together and we had a lot 1:46:57.360 --> 1:47:01.360 of fun, uh, you know, routining material, picking songs. These 1:47:01.400 --> 1:47:03.360 were guys who you know, who would come in with 1:47:03.520 --> 1:47:08.519 like scores of songs to pour through each of them 1:47:09.080 --> 1:47:11.080 and um, and then we broke it down to an 1:47:11.080 --> 1:47:13.120 album's worth of material. We had a lot of fun 1:47:13.240 --> 1:47:16.280 doing it. Then we went to Nashville and the sessions. 1:47:16.360 --> 1:47:19.960 I try to keep the sessions as as fast and 1:47:20.240 --> 1:47:24.120 exciting as they are, and and you know, to create 1:47:24.200 --> 1:47:28.840 an atmosphere for them that was um, that was inspiring 1:47:29.160 --> 1:47:32.680 and UM and felt safe. So they really went for it. 1:47:32.960 --> 1:47:35.680 They liked it. The album came out people said nice 1:47:35.720 --> 1:47:38.120 things about it. I think it did. Okay, they really 1:47:38.200 --> 1:47:40.680 loved the experience, so then they decided when it came 1:47:40.760 --> 1:47:44.880 time to do it again that they would call me back. Okay. 1:47:45.400 --> 1:47:48.040 Fish is a good example here. From the beginning of 1:47:48.600 --> 1:47:51.760 their career, it has primarily been about the live show 1:47:52.720 --> 1:47:56.120 and the records, even when they were the major label 1:47:56.240 --> 1:47:59.639 with Electra, have never been as big as their live show. 1:48:00.160 --> 1:48:02.439 In addition, you mentioned your work with Deep Purple. Now 1:48:02.680 --> 1:48:07.200 need Let's say they're a classic heritage act, but we 1:48:07.360 --> 1:48:10.479 know in the streaming era it focuses more on tracks, 1:48:10.600 --> 1:48:13.720 even if you put out the album, and in a 1:48:14.120 --> 1:48:19.120 world where it's flattened, a lot of these records do 1:48:19.240 --> 1:48:22.479 not have the dominance that they once had, irrelevant of 1:48:22.520 --> 1:48:26.200 their quality, irrelevant of their genre. What's it like in 1:48:26.439 --> 1:48:29.320 terms of your motivation, Because when you were making records 1:48:29.640 --> 1:48:32.200 with people like Alice Cooper and Kissing Pink Floyd, you 1:48:32.280 --> 1:48:34.400 knew these records were gonna come out, They're gonna get 1:48:34.400 --> 1:48:36.639 a good list, and based on their quality and luck, 1:48:36.960 --> 1:48:40.000 they might really become known by everybody, which is almost 1:48:40.040 --> 1:48:43.840 an impossibility today. Okay, that's a that's a big question, 1:48:43.920 --> 1:48:47.559 big long question. In the case of Deep Purple for example, 1:48:48.439 --> 1:48:50.880 and this is true of Alice too, right now, they 1:48:51.040 --> 1:48:53.880 have a fan base that just stays with them no 1:48:54.040 --> 1:48:58.799 matter what they do. And those people they buy physical product. 1:48:59.760 --> 1:49:02.960 So in a world where nobody buys physical product, Deep 1:49:03.000 --> 1:49:08.000 Purple sales are primarily physical. And in Germany alone they 1:49:08.080 --> 1:49:12.320 sell a lot of records. So um, while you want 1:49:12.360 --> 1:49:14.760 to say, well, you know that, you know, why did 1:49:14.800 --> 1:49:16.679 I do that? There's nothing in it for you. Actually 1:49:16.720 --> 1:49:19.280 got royalty papments out of the Deep Purple albums, and 1:49:19.360 --> 1:49:21.800 I didn't get that out of a lot of contemporary people. 1:49:22.479 --> 1:49:25.920 And with and with Andrea Bocelli, for example, we sold 1:49:25.960 --> 1:49:32.559 a million physical albums millions, So um, there are people 1:49:32.640 --> 1:49:38.360 who still buy um. Admittedly they're mostly older people. Um, 1:49:39.080 --> 1:49:42.160 and but older people like music too, you know, and 1:49:42.200 --> 1:49:44.760 they have a right to anyway. What motivates me to 1:49:44.840 --> 1:49:47.800 work with Fish, Well, what motivated me to work with 1:49:47.880 --> 1:49:51.360 Fish was just because it was just such an off 1:49:51.439 --> 1:49:55.719 the wall idea and they were so good the players. 1:49:55.840 --> 1:49:58.400 Oh my god, I saw the show and I'm like, wow, 1:49:58.560 --> 1:50:00.439 I want to spend a few weeks in the studio 1:50:00.520 --> 1:50:02.559 with those guys, right that that could be a lot 1:50:02.640 --> 1:50:07.720 of fun. Luckily, I'm in a position where, um, you know, I, 1:50:08.040 --> 1:50:10.799 if I didn't do that project, I wasn't going to starve. 1:50:11.040 --> 1:50:14.080 So I got to do it for the right reasons. 1:50:14.280 --> 1:50:16.439 I wasn't doing it for the paycheck. I was doing 1:50:16.520 --> 1:50:20.240 it for the excitement of it. And and sure enough 1:50:20.280 --> 1:50:24.040 that that proved to be true. In the Deep Purple case, 1:50:24.439 --> 1:50:26.680 it was exactly the same thing. I went to see 1:50:26.760 --> 1:50:30.280 Deep Purple play live at Massey Hall again in Toronto. 1:50:30.920 --> 1:50:36.040 It was it was was it the Machine had tour 1:50:36.120 --> 1:50:39.679 where they played the whole album. No, no, I would 1:50:39.840 --> 1:50:44.600 love that. I didn't see that show. Yeah, but but 1:50:44.680 --> 1:50:47.240 you saw him at Masket Hall. So Neil Warneck their 1:50:47.400 --> 1:50:50.120 their agent is also Alice Cooper's agent, and and and 1:50:50.479 --> 1:50:52.840 Pink Floyd's agent for the long as well. A friend 1:50:53.040 --> 1:50:54.439 he called me up and he said, you're going to 1:50:54.479 --> 1:50:56.479 produce the next D Purple album. I said, no, I'm not. 1:50:56.840 --> 1:50:59.000 He said, yes, you are, and I said, no, I'm not. 1:50:59.760 --> 1:51:01.360 You know, I don't want to get pigeonholed as the 1:51:01.400 --> 1:51:04.679 oldies guy. And you know, I've got to stay with Alice. 1:51:04.760 --> 1:51:07.759 And that's for me. That's about it for classic bands 1:51:08.439 --> 1:51:10.360 and he said, well, you have to just do me 1:51:10.439 --> 1:51:14.080 this favorite. Just go see them play live. Now understand 1:51:15.240 --> 1:51:21.480 Machine had the album was was a seminal listening experience 1:51:21.600 --> 1:51:24.360 for me that did a huge amount to put me 1:51:24.439 --> 1:51:28.880 in touch with my love for heavy music. Um. I 1:51:29.080 --> 1:51:31.799 was once asked if I would produce Made in Japan, 1:51:32.040 --> 1:51:34.040 but I was doing something else and couldn't do it. 1:51:34.360 --> 1:51:36.360 And as you may recall, that went on to become 1:51:36.439 --> 1:51:39.320 like the biggest rock album of the past ten years, 1:51:39.439 --> 1:51:41.800 sold like twelve million coffees or something like that. I 1:51:41.920 --> 1:51:45.400 just kept watching the numbers, thinking I didn't make that money. 1:51:45.560 --> 1:51:49.320 Oh crap anyway, But so it wasn't like Deep Purple 1:51:49.400 --> 1:51:53.640 with Strangers to me, and um So I went to 1:51:53.680 --> 1:51:55.920 see them play live. The opening parts of the show, 1:51:56.000 --> 1:51:58.840 they were playing their more contemporary material and it didn't 1:51:59.000 --> 1:52:02.519 really get me off, I have to say. Um. But 1:52:02.640 --> 1:52:05.559 then in the you know boats, halfway through the set, 1:52:05.640 --> 1:52:10.519 they go into this jam where they're all, um, they're 1:52:10.560 --> 1:52:14.519 like showing off there there they hit the virtuoso button 1:52:14.600 --> 1:52:19.120 and they're playing stuff that just knocks my socks off, 1:52:19.240 --> 1:52:21.280 and and all the old people in the audience who 1:52:21.400 --> 1:52:25.320 up until then we're like politely applauding or yelling from 1:52:25.360 --> 1:52:28.360 their seats. They got up and they started dancing in 1:52:28.439 --> 1:52:30.720 the aisles of their arms and twirling circles like they 1:52:30.760 --> 1:52:33.400 were back in Woodstock. It was amazing. It was crazy, 1:52:33.960 --> 1:52:39.760 and I thought, you know, I haven't heard that in 1:52:40.000 --> 1:52:47.640 rock and roll in so long I almost forgot it existed. Prague, real, unapologetic, 1:52:48.240 --> 1:52:52.200 virtuoso level Prague. I loved it. And then of course 1:52:52.240 --> 1:52:54.320 they closed the show with all the classics, which you know, 1:52:54.479 --> 1:52:56.479 just reminded me of how great a band they were. 1:52:56.560 --> 1:52:58.880 So the next morning we had a late breakfast and 1:52:59.400 --> 1:53:05.080 we talked uh the possibility of working together. Um. By 1:53:05.160 --> 1:53:07.760 this time I think that they had had their confidence 1:53:07.800 --> 1:53:09.880 shaken by people who told them that they had to 1:53:09.920 --> 1:53:12.880 try to be a contemporary rock band. Like that's not 1:53:13.000 --> 1:53:14.880 fair to do to guys at our age. You know, 1:53:15.360 --> 1:53:18.760 it's just not this. Yeah, it's not who we are. 1:53:18.840 --> 1:53:22.439 It's not gonna happen and m and I said to 1:53:22.520 --> 1:53:25.760 them at breakfast, I said, look, if you if if 1:53:25.840 --> 1:53:28.160 you're looking at me as a guy who's gonna make 1:53:28.320 --> 1:53:31.479 like a quote unquote contemporary rock album with you, I 1:53:31.800 --> 1:53:34.040 I think you've come to the wrong place because I 1:53:34.120 --> 1:53:37.360 don't think that's possible for you in norder, I think 1:53:37.400 --> 1:53:41.120 it's relevant. I think that's bad for you. I think 1:53:41.200 --> 1:53:42.880 if you want to make a record, it sounds like 1:53:42.960 --> 1:53:45.320 what I heard in that jam session and in those 1:53:45.400 --> 1:53:49.040 classic songs later on in the set where we don't 1:53:49.200 --> 1:53:52.400 give a ship about length of song, how many you 1:53:52.479 --> 1:53:55.200 know pieces, all this stuff. We don't think about radio. 1:53:55.680 --> 1:53:59.519 We just go in there and be be bravely and 1:53:59.600 --> 1:54:03.639 on a apologetically prague I'm in if that's what you want, 1:54:04.000 --> 1:54:11.120 I'm in. Uh. And and you know when I left now, uh, 1:54:11.400 --> 1:54:13.800 Steve and I had already worked together. Steve Morris, the 1:54:13.880 --> 1:54:15.960 guitar player, we had already worked together when he was 1:54:16.040 --> 1:54:18.479 in Kansas who I also produced By the Way and 1:54:19.760 --> 1:54:23.320 and the Dixie Drags before that, and when Dixie Dregs 1:54:23.360 --> 1:54:25.519 all along the you know, the Dregs went on for 1:54:25.640 --> 1:54:29.519 a long time, and Roger Glutter was one of my 1:54:29.600 --> 1:54:32.240 production heroes, like he had produced some of the albums 1:54:32.280 --> 1:54:34.640 that you know, being a Progue fan and a British 1:54:34.760 --> 1:54:37.520 rock fan, he had produced some of the greatest albums 1:54:37.960 --> 1:54:40.960 in my collection. So for me, like this would have 1:54:41.000 --> 1:54:42.880 been a fun This would have been a great gig. 1:54:42.960 --> 1:54:45.120 I realized after that being would be a great gig, 1:54:45.200 --> 1:54:48.200 so okay, I'm gonna go for it. And apparently they 1:54:48.280 --> 1:54:52.840 liked the speech and we started the process and and 1:54:53.360 --> 1:54:57.200 um and and I've just enjoyed the hell out of 1:54:57.320 --> 1:55:03.240 this relationship. We've we've come, we're friends. We talk, you know, 1:55:03.520 --> 1:55:07.240 when we're not working together, and um, you know, we 1:55:07.320 --> 1:55:09.640 see each other in various places that I you know, 1:55:09.800 --> 1:55:12.760 Ian Gillen came to do his vocals to our to 1:55:13.200 --> 1:55:16.120 Nasau in the Bahamas, where we have a place, and 1:55:16.200 --> 1:55:18.240 he stayed with us. He stayed at our house and 1:55:18.360 --> 1:55:21.640 we did the vocals together. We ate together and hung together. 1:55:22.400 --> 1:55:25.840 You know, I really like them, but I really admire them, 1:55:26.440 --> 1:55:32.000 Like these are really really great musicians. He's an incredibly 1:55:32.080 --> 1:55:36.480 good vocalist and and and he and Roger are seriously 1:55:36.520 --> 1:55:39.480 good lyricists too. So you know, for me, that was 1:55:39.560 --> 1:55:41.960 a that has been and I hope continues to be 1:55:42.040 --> 1:55:46.160 a really fun gig. And we sold records. Okay, we're 1:55:46.240 --> 1:55:49.960 in this crazy COVID era, but what have you got 1:55:50.040 --> 1:55:55.320 in the pipeline of anything? Looks like, uh, nobody's going 1:55:55.360 --> 1:55:59.200 on the road for a little while. So um, uh 1:55:59.480 --> 1:56:02.320 you know. We're is finishing up Alice is album that 1:56:02.400 --> 1:56:06.640 we had to we had to interrupt because of uh coronavirus. 1:56:07.400 --> 1:56:11.160 And we've been finishing it remotely, um, which is which 1:56:11.240 --> 1:56:13.520 is an interesting process. It takes a little a little 1:56:13.560 --> 1:56:15.720 more time than I'm you know that I would really like. 1:56:15.920 --> 1:56:19.080 But but it's also kind of cool because it's like 1:56:19.320 --> 1:56:22.040 I could really concentrate on one thing at a time, 1:56:22.360 --> 1:56:25.600 which is not normally my nature. And then I get 1:56:25.680 --> 1:56:29.760 it all together and and I have managed to clone 1:56:29.840 --> 1:56:35.160 my studio pretty much identically here in my house in Toronto, 1:56:35.720 --> 1:56:38.400 so I can get it up to a point where 1:56:38.440 --> 1:56:41.600 it's um, I can mix it here. All I do 1:56:41.680 --> 1:56:45.800 is send it back to Nashville to Julian who who 1:56:45.920 --> 1:56:49.360 puts it through our hardware and prints it there. But UM, 1:56:49.680 --> 1:56:51.920 so we're gonna finish that. That's gonna be done within 1:56:52.440 --> 1:56:56.360 I would say three or four weeks, um, because it's 1:56:56.360 --> 1:56:58.200 not the only thing I'm doing right now. Right now, 1:56:58.960 --> 1:57:01.880 I am on mission from God to get people to 1:57:02.000 --> 1:57:07.360 register and vote in the next election. Um. You know, 1:57:08.400 --> 1:57:10.720 my buddy Andy, who you know well, who you ski 1:57:10.840 --> 1:57:13.560 with and stuff. We are we're we're on a you know, 1:57:13.680 --> 1:57:15.480 we are on a mission and this is taking quite 1:57:15.480 --> 1:57:18.040 a bit of time. Plus I've got my environmental stuff 1:57:18.120 --> 1:57:20.800 and In Place of War and the Mr Hollins Opus 1:57:20.840 --> 1:57:23.720 Foundation and Music Rising, They're all going at the same time. 1:57:24.040 --> 1:57:26.360 So what I in my spare time, what I do 1:57:26.640 --> 1:57:30.120 is I'm finishing this record. But but Alison I are 1:57:30.120 --> 1:57:33.200 already saying like, well, you know, why stop. We're having 1:57:33.200 --> 1:57:35.640 a good time. Let's keep going. So I think that 1:57:35.680 --> 1:57:38.880 will happen. A couple of people have sent me notes saying, 1:57:39.000 --> 1:57:41.280 you know, would you like to talk about stuff? And 1:57:41.480 --> 1:57:44.839 I'm open to it, though it would be very difficult 1:57:44.880 --> 1:57:48.160 to do under current circumstances. So we'll see, you know, 1:57:48.240 --> 1:57:51.120 we'll see. Bob. Okay, I think we've come to the 1:57:51.240 --> 1:57:54.480 end of the feeling we've known, and I think we'll 1:57:54.560 --> 1:57:58.960 leave a third episode for the future. So Bob, I 1:57:59.120 --> 1:58:02.640 thank you so much. Going through your history and telling 1:58:02.680 --> 1:58:06.600 all these fantastic stories from our audience. Well, it's you know, 1:58:06.720 --> 1:58:08.600 what's fun to tell because it gets I get a 1:58:08.680 --> 1:58:11.360 chance to live it again. You know. I sort of 1:58:11.440 --> 1:58:13.240 stay in the present, as you know, but but to 1:58:13.320 --> 1:58:15.400 go back and relive that stuff, it's really you know, 1:58:15.560 --> 1:58:20.200 it was great times, great fun. I feel unbelievably privileged 1:58:20.400 --> 1:58:23.840 to have had these opportunities and to experience these things. Well, 1:58:24.000 --> 1:58:26.560 this has been great. Bob Till next time. This is 1:58:26.680 --> 1:58:27.520 Bob left stuff