1 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, welcome back to part two of my podcast 2 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: with the legendary record producer Bob az Were Bob, good 3 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: to have you back. Thank you, It's very good to 4 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: be here. Okay, let's delve into some of your work 5 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: that we didn't get to last time. Now, you were 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: consistently involved with Alice Cooper, but you did not do 7 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: Muscle of Love. Why. Uh, there was a point at 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,480 Speaker 1: which the band was starting to flex their muscles, meaning 9 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: the the the instrumental band within the the Alice Cooper group. Um, 10 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: they wanted more recognition, they wanted more respect. They felt 11 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: like I was too sort of in charge of that 12 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: side of things, and I think that there was also uh, 13 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: some disagreement amongst the different factions about what they were 14 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: going to do as their next step. Anyway, it was 15 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: just not comfortable for everybody, and it was clear to 16 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: me on the first day of rehearsal that some people 17 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: in the room were not happy to see me, and 18 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: that happens, you know, in life. Sometimes that happens. By 19 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: the end of the day, I just realized that this 20 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: was not going to be a happy experience, and um, 21 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: I took Alice aside and said Uh, look, I I 22 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 1: can't do this. And I called Jack Douglas, who had 23 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: been working for me and doing some production for me, 24 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: and I asked my my then partner X my what 25 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: who used to be my boss, Jack Richardson. I asked him, Um, 26 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: if he and Jack Douglas together would take over the project. 27 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: I knew between the two of them there would be 28 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: a continuity there and a comfort factor for the band. 29 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 1: So they said yes, and I think they did a 30 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: really good job. Now the band broke up slightly thereafter. 31 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: Did you foresee that happening? Yeah, I sort of did. 32 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: I you know I did. I didn't really, I didn't 33 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: have anything to do it that. I didn't talk to 34 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: anybody about that. But I did say to Chef and 35 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: to Alice that, you know, if they do decide to 36 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: go out on their own, that they should call me. 37 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: I'd be very happy to come back. So what was 38 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: the process? Ultimately Alice Cooper went solo, but he was 39 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: identified with the name of the band at that point. 40 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: How did that come together that you went back to 41 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: work with Alice? Well, let's be clear about something. When 42 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: the when the band formed, um, you know, it was 43 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: it was obvious to to chef UM and it was 44 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: suggested by Pat Kingsley, one of the greatest pr people 45 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: in the world, UM, that you couldn't have a band 46 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: called Alice Cooper without having someone in the band called 47 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: Alice Cooper. So um Vincent Fernier got selected. He was 48 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: the lead singer after all, and he literally changed his 49 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: name legally and went through all that process to become 50 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: Alice Cooper. He was also the guy then that spoke 51 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: on behalf of the band. So at seven in the morning, 52 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: where everybody else was sleeping off the gig of the 53 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: night before, he's on the phone with Match Paris or 54 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: some other you know, periodical somewhere. He's doing all this 55 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: spokesman stuff. He's working double duty. So by the time 56 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: it came to determining where the band was going to go, 57 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: it was clear that, you know, Alice Cooper going off 58 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 1: on his own would be Alice Cooper and the rest 59 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: of the band would have to find um a different name. 60 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: Do you believe there was resentment from the rest of 61 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: the band that he went on using the name? You know? 62 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: I think, you know, maybe at the at the time 63 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: there might have been, but but nobody could you know, 64 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: you you. You can't deny a person the right to 65 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: work under their own name. That's just like, that's just 66 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: common sense. So, you know, resentment that he stayed Alice Cooper, 67 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: I don't think so. There may have been some resentment 68 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: about um, you know, chefs staying with him and me 69 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: going back and that you know, sort of um leaving 70 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: them out there on their own. And I can I 71 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: can understand that. Since then, happily everybody has um remain friends, 72 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: continue to work together. We just did um some sessions 73 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: and Phoenix with the original guys and Alice and um 74 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: we all talked to each other all the time. Dennis 75 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: has written songs on Alice's current records and stuff. So 76 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: all is well, okay, So how does the process go 77 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: down in a more granular fashion in terms of the 78 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: story that you get back to work with Alice. Um. 79 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: The it's a very simple one that that um uh 80 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: they have to do a project, a solo project, and 81 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: Sheep has um uh a clause in his contract, in 82 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: the Alice Cooper contract that allows them to do a 83 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: soundtrack album for different label than Warner Brothers. So they 84 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: go to a sister label so as to keep peace 85 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: in the family. They go to Atlantic Records and then 86 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: Chef calls me up and says, you know we're gonna 87 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: do it again. Would you like to work with Alice? 88 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, we need a soundtrack, meaning 89 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: we have to come up with an idea for a 90 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: movie or um our TV show. So Alice and I 91 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: got together and UM interestingly, so we get together, we 92 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: start talking about this and we came up we we 93 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: decided to come up with our own story. So we 94 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: come up with a storyline where this rock star named 95 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: Stephen something he uh and his mistress are in a 96 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: private plane somewhere over the Rockies and the plane goes down, 97 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: He disappears, she disappears. Twenty eight days later, he uh 98 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: surfaces alone and he's fine, and he looks fine. The suggestion, 99 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 1: you know, is that something untoward may have happened there 100 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: during that twey eight days and and he comes back 101 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: and now he's rock star by day and evening and 102 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: by night he's a vampire and a killer. And so 103 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: that was the idea and way we came up with 104 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: this thing, Welcome to My Nightmare. And UM and Sheff 105 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: introduced us to a movie director UH named Denny man, 106 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: who would who would have been the director of this 107 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: project if it had all sort of worked out? Alis 108 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 1: and I went to Vancouver, BC UH to meet with 109 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: Denny Man on a ship off the coast of Vancouver 110 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: where he was shooting a movie featuring um uh, Ian McShane, 111 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: um Donald Pleasants and Vincent Price Wow and Vette Memu, 112 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: who happened to be my wet dream. Right. So so 113 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: there we were onto forward, you know, and I was 114 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: standing next to Mr Price. He pulled out a cigar 115 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: Monte Cristo, which I was smoking in those days. I 116 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: loved monte Cristos, and I just said, look, I know 117 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: this is very forward, but would you happen to have 118 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: one more of those? And he was Suddenly we were 119 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: like cigar buddies, you know how cigar buddies are, and 120 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: and so we started talking and I'm listening that voice, 121 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: and I just said to him, Mr Price, how would 122 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: you like to make your rock and roll debut? And uh? 123 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: And he he looked at me like it was some 124 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: kind of joke, but then he said sure. So I said, well, 125 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: we'll stay in touch. And of course there was no movie. 126 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: We came up with an idea for a television special, 127 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: uh for ABC Wide World of Entertainment. This was back 128 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: when they they had ABC Wide World of Sports, the 129 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: Agony of defeating, the ecstasy of victory or whatever it was, right, 130 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: and then they decided, well, we're you know, this is 131 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: working so well for sports, We're gonna do it for entertainment. 132 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: So they set up this slot. And I believe we 133 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: were the first ones with this project called Welcome to 134 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: My Nightmare, which is its own show all by itself. 135 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: So we should move on from this, but let me 136 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: just tell you that there has never been a three 137 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: ring circus like that whole experience in my entire life. 138 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: And someday we'll talk all about it. Okay. Meanwhile, you 139 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: work with Kiss, making what many people believe is their 140 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: best album, Destroyer. Tell us a story of that. Well, 141 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: you know, the the Kiss situation was really interesting. I 142 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: I always had a published phone number in Toronto when 143 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: I was when I was living in Toronto, and they 144 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: were fans who used to call me and just talk 145 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: to me about stuff. There was this one kid, Mike 146 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: Longman's who called me up. He was sixteen years old 147 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: and he said, Um, there's this band that that needs 148 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: you man, they really need you. You need to work 149 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: with this band. They're called Kiss. I didn't I had 150 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: never heard of them, um, but he was adamant about it. 151 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 1: So I started looking them up and listening to music 152 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: and stuff. And then literally like three days later, I 153 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: was at CITYTV downtown Toronto doing an interview for an 154 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: artist that I had signed to my label. So I 155 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: was going up this rors to the TV studio and 156 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: as I was going up, the members of Kiss were 157 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: coming down from just having done their um interview in 158 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,079 Speaker 1: in makeup, pull makeup, full costume. They were coming clumping 159 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: down those stairs. It was like a herd of buffalo, 160 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: you know, clo and as they got close to me, 161 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: they were like giants. They were these monstrous guys, you know. 162 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: And and uh, Paul Stanley was in the lead. So 163 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: I stopped Paul and said, hi, um, I'm bob Ezrind 164 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: and he said, oh, we know who you are. And 165 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: I said, well that's good, because now I know who 166 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: you are. I said, are you guys happy with your records? 167 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: And he said yeah, why you know, Like, what do 168 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: you mean I mean? And I just said, well, you know, 169 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: I don't mean anything. I'm just saying, if at any 170 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: point you're not, um, I'd be really interested in talking 171 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: to you about working together. And that was that. I 172 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: didn't speak to anybody after that. And then some months 173 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: later I got a call from Bill a Coin, the manager, 174 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: the manager of the band, saying, you know, the band 175 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: would very much like to meet with you. And first 176 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: we wanted we wanted you to go see them play 177 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: a live So I did. I went to Michigan, Um, 178 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: I think it was Anne Arbor, you know, and uh, 179 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: they were playing in an arena stand you know, you know, 180 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: just general standing, not even seating, and the place the 181 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: place was pretty full, or about nine thousand people in 182 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: the arena, and they were all fifteen year old pimpley boys, 183 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: which to me looked like a massive opportunity because I 184 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: was thinking, like, if they do this well with nothing 185 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: but pimpley boys, imagine if we could just expand the 186 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: platform and um and attract a larger audience. And because 187 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: while I was watching them, like, I was thinking, you 188 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: know what, these guys are actually really good and there 189 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: and they're sexy too in a in a strange way, 190 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: and yet they're they're just playing this kind of you 191 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: know hard drink and hard partying, macho thing for the 192 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: sake of fifteen year olds, that if I could just 193 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: get them to expand their repertoire a bit, that we 194 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: might be able to get to a larger audience. Okay, 195 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: And so you see them, and how do you seal 196 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: the deal? And then what's the next step in making 197 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: the record? So we go to a We go to uh, 198 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: a Middle Eastern restaurant in New York City chosen by 199 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: Gene Simmons, and we have I have Moose for the 200 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: first time and just love it. And then we have 201 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: this conversation where I tell them I remind them of 202 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: the movie The Wild One, which to all your listeners 203 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: is probably way too long ago, But it was a 204 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: biker movie that had legendary Marlon Brando, the leader of 205 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: one bike gang, and Lee Marvin, the leader of the other. 206 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: Marlon Brando's gang were bad, but Lee Marvin's gang was 207 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 1: really bad, and they descended on this little town and there, 208 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: and they were just going to destroy the place. But 209 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: sure how there was one girl who who heart was pure, 210 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: who believed that she could she could change and save 211 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: Marlon Brando. So she and Marlon brand his name was 212 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: Johnny in the movie. So she decided that she was 213 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: going to she was going to cure Johnny with love 214 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: in a sense, so she and Johnny fall into love 215 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: and and and then of course what happens is Johnny 216 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: goes from zero to hero and he and his guys 217 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: saved the town. So I just said to them, like, 218 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: right now, you guys are Lee Marvin, this is not 219 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: gonna I mean, it's cool to be bad, but I 220 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: want you to be bad but sexy too. And I 221 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: think that it would be great if you were bad 222 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: and and every girl in the world thought they could 223 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: fix you. That to me would be that would be genius. 224 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: So they love that idea, you know. And and I said, well, 225 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: you know, let's get to work. It's gonna be the 226 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 1: material to start off with. We're gonna have to have 227 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 1: songs that do that for us, and we're gonna have 228 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 1: to make a really good record. I think the meeting 229 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: was terrific because, you know, Jane and Paul and I 230 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: are you know, we're all Jewish boys who grew up 231 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 1: um with dreams of blonds and envy of of our Protestant, 232 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: our white Anglo Saxon Protestant friends, you know, so we 233 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: had a common platform. We knew where we were coming from, 234 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: and and the other guys were you know, they were 235 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: good humored, and I mean I just found the whole 236 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: band really kind of fun to work with. Okay, So 237 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 1: none of the songs were written prior to your involvement. 238 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 1: There were bits and pieces because they knew that they 239 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: were going to start up again. Okay, there were a 240 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: couple of legendary Kiss songs first Detroit Rock City. What's 241 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: the story? How does that come together? Let's let me 242 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 1: ask you this. You send them off to wood shed, 243 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: when you get back together with them, to what degree 244 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: of the songs complete? Well, I didn't send them anywhere. 245 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: They had already started to work on material for the album. 246 00:13:57,880 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: The next step really was for me to go to 247 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: each of them individually and sit and listen through their 248 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: like mountains of cassette tapes and and little bits and 249 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: pieces to see what we liked and what sort of 250 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: fit this the new mission. Right. So, um, we went 251 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: through a lot of stuff and there were some really 252 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: good you know, there were great riffs and there were 253 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: not so great riffs, and um, but there was enough 254 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: to get us started and so so once once I, 255 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: once I felt like we had the pieces that we needed. 256 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: Then um, we got together and started to really craft 257 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: them into songs. Now, most of the writing, the writing 258 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: for the album was Um, Gene and Paul, sometimes separately, 259 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: sometimes together, And there was the one obligatory UM song 260 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: that that that had to come from Peter Chris and 261 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: I don't know what happened about the A song there 262 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: should have been one, but anyway, so we got together. 263 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: We had these little bits of pieces, and uh, sometimes 264 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: it would just be me and one of them, and 265 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: sometimes it will be the three of us. A lot 266 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: of the time we went by this time, I was 267 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: living in New York. We came to my apartment and 268 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: sat at my piano, which has a lot to do 269 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: with some of the arrangement stuff like the shout and 270 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: shout a loud don don don don do da da 271 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: don dome that's like a left hand piano thing. And 272 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: the riff for Detroit Rock City, Um, that's and that's 273 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: pure guitar and pure cock and balls. It's just a 274 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: really amazing riff. And uh, I don't you know, honestly, 275 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: I don't know how it turned from just being like 276 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: a regular rock song into being this rock and roll saga. 277 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: But I do know that all of us were theatrical. 278 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: We were all looking for something more than just you know, 279 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: who wants to party and who wants to drink a 280 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: lot for this record, So we started telling a story 281 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: and and um, and then the make of the of 282 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: that record was really exciting too, because we were experimenting 283 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: with new technology and we're adding sound effects. Many people 284 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: don't know this, but the entire front of that song 285 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: was binaurally recorded. It was me wearing a binaural head microphone, 286 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: and that was me in the car. That's me doing 287 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: the dishes nets, you know, and humming as the kid, 288 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: right and uh, but it's in binoral so if you 289 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: put on headphones, it's like three sixty degree sound and 290 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: you're right there in the center of it. So where 291 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: was it cut. It was cut at the record plant 292 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: in New York City on forty four Street West, my 293 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: favorite all time UM rock and roll studio, and um, 294 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: you know, sadly it doesn't exist anymore. It was an 295 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: amazing place where great adventures happened and lots of magic 296 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: was getting the adventures and getting to the sound. How 297 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: important is a specific studio to you, Um, well, there 298 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: are certain things that are important, and then you can 299 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 1: find the studio that fits. You know, I don't want 300 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 1: to I don't want to be that guy who can 301 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: only paint on Tuesday afternoons, you know. I basically, you know, 302 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,719 Speaker 1: my mantra is basically, you know, give me, you know, 303 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: give me a cell phone and a flashlight and I'll 304 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: put I'll give you a record, new show, you know. 305 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: So it's I can basically make records anyway, that is 306 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: the truth. But I but I do want, where possible 307 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 1: to have an optimum circumstance for the band because the 308 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, their performance in that 309 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: studio depends a lot on how they feel and on 310 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: on what the studio does to inspire them, make them comfortable, 311 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: bring out better performances in them. So in that sense, 312 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: it's very important. For a band like Kiss, it was 313 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: very important that they be in the room together. That's 314 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 1: that's massive. Um. They needed to see each other and 315 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: they needed to playoff of each other's excitement as things 316 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: as interesting things were happening. But by the same token, 317 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: we had to keep the drums as separate as possible. 318 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: So that we could go back and UM redo some 319 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: parts if necessary, or we could actually edit from one 320 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: section to another into the drum tracks without picking up 321 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: the wrong leakage from the room. So the record plant 322 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: studio was perfect because they had this massive drum booth 323 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: you could put Peter Chris in. It was only open 324 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: at eyesight level, so he could see us all we 325 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: could see him, but UM, most of the sound from 326 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: the room was prevented from getting into the mics of 327 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: his drums. That gave me a tremendous amount of flexibility. Okay, 328 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: is there a specific board you'd like to use? Specific 329 00:18:52,480 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: mixing monitors? No? Really, how about engineer now? Well, ok okay, 330 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: let me let me do you know that's that's a 331 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: pretty fast I'll answer there are people I love to 332 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: work with UM and you know, in the last little while, 333 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: I've done a lot of work with Justin Quarterloo in 334 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 1: uh Nashville. He's really good, really fast and UM. And 335 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: then you know, I have some younger engineers that I 336 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: like to work with. I like to bring along to 337 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: sort of learn my system and be UM responsive to 338 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: me on a kind of more natural level. And so 339 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: there's uh, I've got Julian Shank in Nashville as well. 340 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: And then there's Jill Zimmerman in Toronto who's a young 341 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: engineer from Germany that's moved to Canada. Is very talented, 342 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: very smart. Um. And I've worked with Brian Monkar's in 343 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: Canada who is actually uh, you know, fully fledged producer 344 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: but you know, sometimes does some mixing and engineering for me. 345 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: And then in in England where I do a lot 346 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: of work, um the engineer depends on um the job. 347 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: But for all of the Pink Floyd stuff, all the 348 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: things that I did in Pink Floyd Land, it was 349 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: Andrew Jackson, who is just phenomenal, incredibly musicals and I 350 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: have you know, I mean there's a long list. Okay, 351 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: so tell us a story that So now am I 352 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: going to piss off the people? I didn't put on people? 353 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: That's why I said, no, it's easier, you know. But 354 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: but you know, there's lots of really good people. That's 355 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: the point. But the more interesting thing is that you 356 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: don't require you don't have the right hand person. You 357 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: must use no. No, I you know, because listen, I've 358 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: been doing this for a long long time. And and 359 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: also you know, when I was starting out like we were. 360 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: We were breaking new ground. I didn't really want somebody 361 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: that only knew one way of doing things. Brian Christian 362 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: was a fantastic partner at that time as an engineer 363 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: because he knew Jack Jack's methodology, but he was also 364 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 1: aren't enough and had enough experience to be able to 365 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: adapt to me and to start um learning my way 366 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: of doing things and helping me with developing my way 367 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: of doing things. So did Um Shelley yakas you know 368 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: from from the record plant, and Roy Cicala, who you know, 369 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: the great, the late great Roy Sicela, who had a 370 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: tremendous amount to uh to do with my matriculation, and 371 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: and at the very very beginning there was Phil ramonas 372 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,959 Speaker 1: I think I mentioned earlier, David David Green. So I've had, 373 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: you know, I've gone to school with some really really 374 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: good people. I've learned a lot. I've also learned that 375 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 1: if you push the wrong button, nothing explodes. You don't die. 376 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: It's amazing. So you know, you could be afraid of 377 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: doing stuff, but sometimes you just gotta push and if 378 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: it sounds good, you go, okay, that's what I wanted, 379 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: you know, And if it sounds shitty. You go, oh whoops. Okay, 380 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: So tell us about the creation of beth Um. You know, 381 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 1: we had to have we had to have a Peter 382 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: Cris song to keep peace in the family. And he 383 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: and Stan Pendridge had come up with a kind of 384 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: bouncy little thing called Beck b E, C K and U, 385 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: and it was it was sort of it was a 386 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 1: little bit like the cock and balls um approach of 387 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: earlier kiss. It was just kind of arrogant and sort 388 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,239 Speaker 1: of dismissive of the girl and basically say, you know, 389 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: you're not that important. I got I got guys to 390 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: hang out with, We're gonna go play music and that. 391 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 1: But there was a really not there was there was 392 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: a kernel of something there that I really loved. And um, 393 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: it just that you know Beck, that there's was Beck. 394 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: I hear you calling, but I can't come home right now. 395 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: That just exploded in my brain. So I asked, I 396 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: said to Peter, can I take that home and play 397 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: with it a little bit? And he was very gracious 398 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: said sure. So I went home and I just closed 399 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: my eyes and thought about it, and to me, it was, well, 400 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: first of all, I don't know Becca is Jeff Beck 401 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 1: or Rebecca or whatever. It's confusing. So I'm gonna go 402 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 1: with Beth because that's a gentle, soft, beautiful name. And 403 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: and when the guy calls her up and he's saying 404 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: he can't come home right now, I don't want it 405 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,719 Speaker 1: to be because she's um not important to him. I 406 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: wanted to be because his heart is broken. I wanted 407 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: to be because home is nowhere to be anymore. And 408 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: that and here comes our here comes our wild one moment, 409 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: our Johnny moment. I want the nasty rock and roll 410 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: guy to break down in tears in front of all 411 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 1: the girls of the world and say, you know, I 412 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: didn't go home because I didn't feel loved anymore, so 413 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: that they would wrap him in their arms and love 414 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 1: him to death. So you go back and you show 415 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: it to the band. What, especially Chris, What does he say? 416 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: I honestly don't remember whether it was instantly accepted or not. 417 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think, um, I think Paul 418 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 1: and Jean for sure recognized that it was a better version. Um. 419 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that anybody paid it as much attention 420 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 1: as I did at the time. But you know, as 421 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,919 Speaker 1: it as it developed, it got you know, it became 422 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 1: clearer and clearer that this there was something really special 423 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: about this song. Okay, the album comes out and it 424 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: was a monstrous success. What is the band's reaction to 425 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: this success and to what degree did they give kudos 426 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: to you? Okay, well, first of all, the album gets 427 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: reviewed in the long lead press. So, and this is 428 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: just before it's released, and an article comes out, I 429 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: don't remember if it's Rolling Stone or Record World or somewhere, 430 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: and this guy writes an article that basically says that 431 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,199 Speaker 1: I have destroyed Kiss and that and that I have 432 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: you know, I've I've feminized them and basically turned them 433 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: into an and Margaret style. I they yeah, he literally said, 434 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 1: you know, well, you know, adding and Margaret horns to 435 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 1: my favorite band. And he says he closes the article 436 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: with the line I have a mind to go to 437 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 1: Toronto and punch Bob ezran in the nos on behalf 438 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:14,479 Speaker 1: of Kiss fans everything, you know, and um I sent 439 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: him a funny response, but you know, we we don't 440 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: need that now. But um that got everybody nuts. The 441 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: band got crazy, um management got crazy, and they started 442 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 1: to wonder if, oh my god, you know, did we 443 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: actually make a huge mistake here. And then I believe 444 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 1: that that g Bill a Coin, the manager, maybe he 445 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 1: was hearing voices from elsewhere. You know, there's always other 446 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 1: voices in other courses. As we say, there's always critics. 447 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 1: Everybody wants to tell you that what you just did 448 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,719 Speaker 1: would have been better if only they had done it. 449 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: And so somebody must have been saying, you know, this 450 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: is really gonna be a problem for you guys. And 451 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 1: I blithely go off on vacation with my sons, and 452 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: I have a I have a answering service in New York. 453 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 1: This is in the days when there were no machines. 454 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: There were little ladies the city at a switchboard in 455 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: New York City that were like my mom, you know. 456 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: They used to when I would stay out too late, 457 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: they would go, where were you? What were you doing? 458 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: You know. So I get back, I get back from 459 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: two weeks of vacation, and I call my answering service 460 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: because then no cell phone, you know, like nobody could 461 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: reach you. That's fine, that was just fine. That was 462 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: the idea. So I get home, I check on on 463 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: my service for messages, and you know, the lady says, 464 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: where have you been, Mr Douglas has been calling you 465 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: and calling you, and he seems very very upset. You 466 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: should call him right away. So no, I thought that 467 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: there was like some health issue or something terrible that 468 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: had happened. I called Jack right away, and he was 469 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: he was struggling with with his words because he just 470 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: he was so comfortable saying to me what he had 471 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: to say. And he prefaced it by saying, look, I 472 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: won't do this if you don't want me to. But 473 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: he had gotten a call from Kiss management asking if 474 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: he would do the next Kiss record. We weren't even 475 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: out yet, or maybe we had just come out, and 476 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 1: clearly it was um you know, so the opposite of 477 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: a vote of a vote of confidence or any kind 478 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: of thanks or any recognition of my you know, it's 479 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: exactly the opposite of what you're asking, right, And I 480 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: just like I was, like, I sat back in my cheer, 481 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: going wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, say this again. We 482 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: just finished an album, Like, what are you saying? He said, Well, 483 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 1: you know, Bill had called him and the band was 484 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: very unhappy with the results and they would really like 485 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 1: to um explorer working with Jack. Now, by that time, 486 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 1: I think he had done the first Aerosmith record. In fact, 487 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: I know he yet um uh his first record with Aarsmith, 488 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 1: not their first record. So you know, I was like 489 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: I was, I was just in shock, and I just 490 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: said to Jack, you know what, fuck them. If that's 491 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: the reaction after all that work and all the really 492 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: cool stuff that's on that record and all the time 493 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: we spent together and the friendship I thought we had, 494 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 1: If that's it, they call around behind my back and 495 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 1: ask my own um, you know, I don't want to 496 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: say protege, but you know that in a sense he was, 497 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: you know, my own guy. If he wants to replace me, 498 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: that is just so um insulting and uh and just 499 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: you know, it just blew my mind. So I just 500 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: basically said to him, you know what, call him back 501 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: and tell him you'll do it. And while you're at it, 502 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: till tell Bill a Coin to go funk himself. And 503 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: I didn't speak to them for a long time thereafter. 504 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: You know, they didn't reach out. UM. I don't really 505 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: know how it happened. I did stay in touch with Um, 506 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: I did stay in touch with Jean and occasionally but 507 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: not very often. And Paul lived just across the street 508 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: from me, in New York that was even worse. You know, 509 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: it was awkward. He lived directly across the street and uh, 510 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: you know, with his girlfriend at the time. And anyway, 511 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: I don't really remember exactly how we got how the 512 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: conversation came up for bringing us back together, but I 513 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: know that it was, um, a long time there after, years, 514 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: a few years thereafter, okay, but most people at this 515 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: point believe Destroyer is their best album. In addition, I 516 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: believe it is their biggest seller by a mile. So 517 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: they never acknowledged that. Well, no, they did after they 518 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: did later, you know later, Um, I know what they 519 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: didn't acknowledge was that breakup. They didn't acknowledge the breakup 520 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: and how improperly it went down. They didn't nobody called 521 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: to apologize. And at the time I was enough of 522 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,719 Speaker 1: a punk and young enough that to me that was 523 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: like it was a matter of principle. You know, if 524 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: they don't apologize, I'm not gonna you know, I'm not 525 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: going to be the first one to say, what the 526 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: funk happened? You know, So it took us a long 527 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: time to get back together. Today, if that kind of 528 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: stuff happens to me, I know, to just pick up 529 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: a phone and say, you know, are you sure about this? 530 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: Do you really mean that? Um? But I was young 531 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: and brash and and you know what, Listen that that 532 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: brashness and that that youthful energy that had a lot 533 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: to do with making that album what it is. Okay, Now, 534 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: these are tall guys, and Gene Simmons only has one personality. 535 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: We know, we've both in a racked with a lot 536 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: of household names, and you see, it's a public face 537 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: in the private face. But with Jeanne, what you see 538 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: is what you get. So well, you know what, I 539 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: I reject that. I I think that for many people, 540 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: what you see is what you get. But um, but 541 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: I love Jeene Simmons. I do. And by the way, 542 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: I love Paul Stanley, and uh, both of them are 543 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: really uh they're deep guys. They're really deep. Now with 544 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,719 Speaker 1: jean anytime he's in the company of somebody who's not 545 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: in the inner circle where he's completely comfortable, you're right, 546 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: it's the Gene show. Seven. So if I come with 547 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: to him with um, a friend, it's the Gene show. 548 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: He doesn't relax, he's he's on, he's he does his stick. Okay, 549 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: So but let me tell you this, and I want 550 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: to tell you this. It's important because a lot of 551 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: people think that about him. But when my son died, 552 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: those two guys showed up at the funeral in public, 553 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: and then they came to the Shiva house and and 554 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: Jean and Shannon came came over to me and literally 555 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: they put their arms around me and made a sandwich 556 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: out of me and they just held me. This is 557 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: Gene Simmons and I and they held me and I 558 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: cried there. You know, I stood there and cried, but 559 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: I felt safe. I felt like people that I loved 560 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: we're protecting me, which is the idea of the ship, 561 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: isn't it in the first place. So there's a soft 562 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: and there's a marshmallow loving kind um side to Jean. 563 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: But he's developed this, you know, he's developed this public persona, 564 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: which which is how he's made a living. So it's 565 00:32:52,520 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: for him. It's worked out really well. So previously you've 566 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: gone to see lou Reid in the opening act was Genesis. 567 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: You became infatuated with the band, and then you go 568 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: on to work with Peter Gabriel. How do you get 569 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: involved with Peter Gabriel who has just left Genesis and 570 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: he's going to make his first solo album. So, um, 571 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: it's interesting, you asked, because I was talking to Tony 572 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: Smith and I said, was it you that reached out 573 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: to me? Like? How did I get to work with Peter? 574 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: And he said, yes, that that it came from his office. 575 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: Now you know why they asked for me. Maybe it 576 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: had to do with the Lou Reid record. I'm not 577 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: entirely sure, but as as I he may have told 578 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: you before. Maybe it's in the first half. I don't remember. 579 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: But when I when I went to see Lou play 580 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: for the first time at Massey Hall in Toronto, the 581 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: opening act was Genesis, and I had said at the time, 582 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: you know, boyl I really want to work with that 583 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: kid with the flower in his head, which was Peter 584 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: Gabriel and um, and I became a little bit obsessed 585 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 1: with Genesis in general, but with him specifically. So when 586 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: I got the call, when I got the call from 587 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: London saying, um, you know, would you come over and 588 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: meet with Peter. We want to talk to you about 589 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,320 Speaker 1: potentially working with him, I was like, yep, I'll leave tomorrow, 590 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: you know. So um, I got there and I and 591 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 1: it was an amazing couple of days because it included 592 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: not just Peter, who is a phenomenal guy, like you 593 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: want to talk about a dear friend. Um, this is 594 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: someone you know. Peter and I have have remained close 595 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: like family style friends all these years, for a very 596 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: very long time. And yet we've only worked together just 597 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: a you know, on a few things. It's not a lot, 598 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,919 Speaker 1: but um, but every time it's been very meaningful. So 599 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,760 Speaker 1: we get there and um, I meet with Tony Smith 600 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: Gail Colson, who is the managing director of the label 601 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: that that Peter signed, which is called Charisma Records. And uh, 602 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: and she's the Flying Charisma label. Well yeah originally, but 603 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: then if he just became Charisma, but you're right, yeah, 604 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: and and uh, she's fantastic and and so on top 605 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:28,359 Speaker 1: of things, but really smart and and and and very 606 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: invested in Peter as an artist. And of course Tony 607 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: is his manager, so he is totally invested. So the 608 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: three of us are talking about Peter and his career. 609 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: Tony Stratton Smith no Tony Smith manager, So those two 610 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,880 Speaker 1: are and we're talking about career. But then I go 611 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,240 Speaker 1: and meet the owner of the label, Tony Stratton Smith, 612 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: who is a well beautifully dressed, incredibly articulate, wonderful English 613 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: gay man with the the kind of verb that all 614 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: and and style that only the very wealthy English game 615 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: and could have, you know. And he was just an 616 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: amazing character. And uh and we we started up a 617 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 1: friendship that that went on for a few years too. 618 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,240 Speaker 1: But just spending time with him was such a trip 619 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: I loved. Like every time I'd go back to London, 620 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: I would just have lunch with him because I just 621 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: love listening to him and I love watching him. He 622 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 1: was such a great show. Anyway, So from and sadly 623 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: he's not with us anymore. But so I go from 624 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: London to meet with Peter in Bath, which is where 625 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,760 Speaker 1: he was, where he lived and where he's from. Um 626 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: and um. He picks me up and he's a very sweet, 627 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:52,240 Speaker 1: very shy, very kind of held back but gentleman. Um 628 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 1: and uh. And he tours me around Bath to show 629 00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 1: me where he where he came from. He's very proud 630 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 1: of that place, and it's Roman roots and and the 631 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: kind of mystical connection that whole area has. Um some 632 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: people consider it some the Druids considered it to be 633 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: the the mystical center center of the universe. So anyway, 634 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: so we did a lot of that stuff, and as 635 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: we were spending time doing that stuff, we were relaxing 636 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: and we were coming down to being just two guys 637 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: who were having a good conversation about stuff that we enjoyed. 638 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: He saw that I was interested in things he was 639 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: interested in, and then I knew a fair bit about him, 640 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 1: and he was very happy to hear that I saw 641 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: that show that tour and that that's where I had 642 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 1: made the determination that I wanted to do this. So 643 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 1: we went to his house, a modest house that he 644 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: lived in with his wife, Jill and his daughter Anna, 645 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: who I think was a toddler at the time. Uh, 646 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,879 Speaker 1: And he had a little upright piano in the front 647 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: the house. That we sat down there and started um 648 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: playing stuff. He started playing stuff to me that he 649 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: was thinking about that that um he wanted to put 650 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,359 Speaker 1: on his solo record, and we started talking about just 651 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 1: sort of you know, lofty, um conceptual stuff, you know, 652 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 1: theatrical things like how would the show go, which, by 653 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: the way, is something that I do love to put 654 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: before recording in many cases, and I know I'm dealing 655 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 1: with a theatrical artist, and since I come out of 656 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: theater originally, UM, I'd love to know what their vision 657 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,759 Speaker 1: is for the show and how we can make an 658 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,319 Speaker 1: album that that fulfills that vision. So in Peter's case, 659 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,799 Speaker 1: you know, this is his big introduction. He's stepping out 660 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 1: and he needs to be taken seriously by the same token. 661 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,399 Speaker 1: He needs to show all the different sides of him 662 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,399 Speaker 1: that he didn't feel he was getting to express within 663 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 1: the band. So we so we listen to music. I 664 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,840 Speaker 1: hear lots of good stuff, but I hear lots of 665 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: stuff that's not quite right yet. And he's not ready 666 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,760 Speaker 1: from my point of view, And I feel like also 667 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: he's just beginning to get his hands around who he 668 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: wants to be. And so I don't want to rush him. 669 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: I tell the label and management we're not ready to 670 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: go in the studio. I don't want to go in 671 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: the studio with him now. But what I would like 672 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,280 Speaker 1: is I would like him to come back to New York. 673 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: I will rent him a place there, UM, and I 674 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: would like him to spend um a month in New 675 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: York writing, where I can watch and where I can influence. UM. 676 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: He can come and use my piano and my apartment. 677 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: It's perfectly safe and and so that was that. So 678 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,439 Speaker 1: we do we arrange the trip to go to bring 679 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,880 Speaker 1: Peter to New York for a month. So the apartment 680 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: dig this the apartment I found for him, belonged to 681 00:39:54,280 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: Garson Kanan and Ruth Gordon. Wow, Hollywood Royalty. And for 682 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: anybody who doesn't know, people are listening, Ruth Gordon was 683 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 1: the was the next the old next door neighbor and 684 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: Rosemary's baby, and Garson Caden was one of the greatest 685 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: screenwriters of all time. But she of course was Maude 686 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 1: and Harold and Maude, and she was Maud and Harold 687 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: and Maude. She's like, she's legendary. So this was there. 688 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: This was their Chelsea apartment. It was a magnificent, small, 689 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 1: kind of rabbit warren of an apartment. And why they 690 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: rented it out, I have no idea, but we went 691 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 1: through show bizz channels to find one. So that's what 692 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 1: we got. And uh, Peter and Jill and Anna came 693 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 1: to New York. They stayed there. Peter came to my 694 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 1: house every day and um, I had a split level apartment, 695 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: so I would go upstairs to the back to where 696 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 1: my office was and work on other stuff, and I 697 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: left Peter in the in the living room with the 698 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,560 Speaker 1: grand piano with a cassette machine beside him. And every 699 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,440 Speaker 1: time I heard anything I loved, I would run out 700 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: and go record that record that we want to hear 701 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 1: that again and Uh. Over that period of time, we 702 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 1: developed a clear vision of what we were hoping to accomplish. 703 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,359 Speaker 1: We talked about the band we'd like to work with, 704 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,359 Speaker 1: we talked about sort of where to do it. We 705 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 1: sort of laid out our our master plan and we 706 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: amassed a body of material that I felt confident. So 707 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 1: then he went back to London to finish those songs, 708 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 1: and the next time we met was in Toronto where 709 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,480 Speaker 1: we decided to do the record at the Nimbus studios 710 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,279 Speaker 1: called sound Stage, and I put together a band for him. 711 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,919 Speaker 1: It was like the Dirty Dozen. It was a group 712 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: of people that I had worked with on other things 713 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 1: before and then I knew pretty well, along with a 714 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:48,040 Speaker 1: few people that came from Peter Um and Uh. I 715 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: brought in Tony Levin was my sort of go to 716 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 1: bass player at the time. Alan Schwartzberg, who was the 717 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: drummer Jimmy Mailan god rest him, who was a brilliant percussionist. 718 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 1: But to say percussion is is short changing him. He 719 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:06,800 Speaker 1: was like a soundscape artist with common you know, instruments 720 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,799 Speaker 1: and things. He was a genius. And and I had 721 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:16,239 Speaker 1: Steve Hunter, the you know, the brilliant Steve Hunter who 722 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,439 Speaker 1: has been on so many projects with me and has 723 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,640 Speaker 1: so much to do with if I have a sound, 724 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: a rock sound, so much to do with that sound. 725 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 1: And uh, and Peter brought Larry Fast, who I was 726 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 1: aware of, a great synthesizer. Um uh he was. He 727 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: was an innovator, a synthesizer innovator as well as a 728 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: terrific musician. And and then he said, may I please 729 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,240 Speaker 1: have one Brit. I said, I give you one brit. 730 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: You get one one push right, you know, you get 731 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: one brit. Um. So he invited, um, Robert Fripp. Thank 732 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,680 Speaker 1: you Okay. So I said, I'll give you one brit. 733 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:00,839 Speaker 1: You gotta push for one Britton. He said, well, I'd 734 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 1: like to bring Robert Fripp, which is not a punishment 735 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,279 Speaker 1: by any means. So there they were, you know, this 736 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,799 Speaker 1: group of people. And every day we started off in 737 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,959 Speaker 1: Jack Richardson's office where there was an upright piano, Peter 738 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,279 Speaker 1: would sit down. He would play this very complicated piece 739 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,720 Speaker 1: of music that he had finally uh uh cobbled together 740 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:23,479 Speaker 1: out of the pieces that we did in New York 741 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,360 Speaker 1: and that we had done some work on after um 742 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:31,760 Speaker 1: and uh and they were like complicated. This was Prague 743 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:36,440 Speaker 1: with a capital Prague. So this was like and the 744 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 1: guys in the band, like a lot of them were, 745 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 1: They were just sitting there their eyes rolling in their head, 746 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 1: and they would ask him to like what was that, 747 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,840 Speaker 1: thinking the you can you play that again? You know that. 748 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 1: They were feverishly taken notes. Tony Levin, on the other hand, 749 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 1: was reading a novel and and like by the first 750 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,799 Speaker 1: time through he had it, he had clocked it, you know. Um. 751 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 1: And then everybody once they all knew the song and 752 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:04,920 Speaker 1: they knew what it comprised of. Then we moved into 753 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,200 Speaker 1: the studio and parts were developed in a sign. In 754 00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 1: some cases I had ideas. In some cases we just 755 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,800 Speaker 1: made it up right there on the spot. So we 756 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,920 Speaker 1: would try stuff, you know, rule uh. So you know, 757 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,880 Speaker 1: Peter loves rule sets, and so do I. They're they're 758 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,600 Speaker 1: just I don't mean as a as a restriction. But 759 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,160 Speaker 1: as you know, we liked the five challenges, you know, 760 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,960 Speaker 1: So for Salisbury Hill, I took away Alan Schwartzburg symbols. 761 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,400 Speaker 1: I just took him off the kit altogether, so you know, 762 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 1: even if he tried to hit one, he couldn't. And 763 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:41,120 Speaker 1: I gave him a shaker um and put uh t 764 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,800 Speaker 1: towel over his stare drum to develop a certain sound. 765 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:48,200 Speaker 1: And so and that that that kind of electronic drum 766 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,400 Speaker 1: sound that we had. We invented it right there on 767 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 1: the spot. We we we decided it needed a name, 768 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 1: so we called it a synthabam and and I just 769 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,200 Speaker 1: I played that part doom do do doo dood doom 770 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 1: bom boom boom, bump bump while Larry was playing um 771 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,279 Speaker 1: the more orchestral sounds and things like that, and we 772 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:12,640 Speaker 1: cut that track live. We cut them all live. Okay. 773 00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 1: This was seen as a very innovative album. I know 774 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:18,719 Speaker 1: it was different in Canada, but Genesis was not that 775 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,439 Speaker 1: well known such that when the first album came out 776 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,520 Speaker 1: it was almost a debut like Genesis. And Genesis of 777 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:31,200 Speaker 1: course came out with their Minus Peter album at a 778 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:32,880 Speaker 1: similar to they came out with the previous one. I 779 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,759 Speaker 1: think Wind and Wutheringe came out at that time, so 780 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,439 Speaker 1: this was a wild album to listen to, as accessible 781 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:46,520 Speaker 1: as Saulisbury Hill and Modern Love were the Burgermeister and 782 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,239 Speaker 1: all this other stuff. It was like you heard it, 783 00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:52,880 Speaker 1: It was like what is this? And that was all intentional, 784 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,760 Speaker 1: all intentional. Every little bit of it was intentional, including 785 00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,120 Speaker 1: excuse me. You know that song excuse Me? It was 786 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,000 Speaker 1: a little ditty that he had written. Tony Levin said, 787 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:06,120 Speaker 1: you know, I'm in a barbershop quartet. He said, this 788 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,520 Speaker 1: kind of sounds like a barbershop quartet to be and 789 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:13,720 Speaker 1: I go, that's genius. So we create a barbershop quartet 790 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,919 Speaker 1: out of the members of the band. I didn't hire 791 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,400 Speaker 1: other people. They all learned their parts. Tony helped to 792 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,080 Speaker 1: arrange this thing. In fact, you know, it was basically 793 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: his chart on that. And and also I knew that 794 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,920 Speaker 1: Tony played tuba, had had played tuba in a symphony, 795 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:36,440 Speaker 1: so uh, we got a tuba, hired a tuba, and 796 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,080 Speaker 1: um and I had Tony played the bass part on 797 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,760 Speaker 1: the tube ins that have on the base and anyway, 798 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 1: you know, they loved doing it so much that we 799 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,560 Speaker 1: actually took the act on the road in Toronto, in 800 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:51,160 Speaker 1: the sense that like literally we went on a new 801 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,960 Speaker 1: hazel and Hazelton Avenue and and saying it on the 802 00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,719 Speaker 1: sidewalk just to see, you know, people would gather and 803 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:02,239 Speaker 1: and the the the rap dinner, which which I would 804 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,400 Speaker 1: usually do for projects like this, and just have a 805 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,959 Speaker 1: celebration and a wrap dinner. It was such a great 806 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,399 Speaker 1: experience and everybody had such a wonderful time. I took 807 00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,040 Speaker 1: everybody out to a restaurant called Napoleon, which was very 808 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:17,160 Speaker 1: white tablecloth, very you know, a very high end Toronto restaurant, 809 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,719 Speaker 1: and and and we had bought gifts for everybody in 810 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,560 Speaker 1: the band, which I brought out at a certain point 811 00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:29,640 Speaker 1: during dinner, and and everybody dressed up. Peter dressed up 812 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,720 Speaker 1: in a three piece gray suit with a black shirt 813 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,920 Speaker 1: and black tie and oh, by the way, ball bearing 814 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:41,600 Speaker 1: uh contact lenses so which over which he wore dark glasses. 815 00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,480 Speaker 1: And so you know, we walked him into the restaurant 816 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,880 Speaker 1: and he had his dark glasses on and he and 817 00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:49,960 Speaker 1: the waiters would shout at him because they thought he 818 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,359 Speaker 1: was blind as people do, you know, for for blind people. 819 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,279 Speaker 1: I'd never got that they would shout at him, and 820 00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,040 Speaker 1: then at one point they asked him a question. He 821 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,120 Speaker 1: took his glasses off and was looking at them with 822 00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:06,200 Speaker 1: literally ball bearing eyes. And the guy that was taking 823 00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,759 Speaker 1: our order, he like threw his pad and jumped back 824 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:11,880 Speaker 1: and and and had to leave the room. He was 825 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,239 Speaker 1: so shocked. Anyway, it was a fun dinner. Everybody got 826 00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:19,439 Speaker 1: something that was meaningful to them. Frip got a pocket watch, 827 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,240 Speaker 1: gold pocket watch, so he could stand on the table 828 00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,040 Speaker 1: and say, and we would say, I say, Robert, what 829 00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:27,239 Speaker 1: time is it? And he would take it out with 830 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,200 Speaker 1: a flourish and tell us the time. Um and Steve 831 00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:34,240 Speaker 1: Hunter got a an electric guitar. I I don't remember 832 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,920 Speaker 1: what everybody else got, but I do remember that I 833 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,960 Speaker 1: bought Tony a tuba and play one a long time. 834 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:44,480 Speaker 1: So he gets the tuba and I say, gentlemen, excuse me. 835 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,239 Speaker 1: They stood up. He played the tuba and then they 836 00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,120 Speaker 1: started singing excuse me as a barbershop quartet in the 837 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:56,279 Speaker 1: entire restaurant went crazy and applauded. They all gave us 838 00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,520 Speaker 1: like a standing ovasion. I said, well, we do two 839 00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:00,600 Speaker 1: shows a night and three on the days. You know, 840 00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:04,240 Speaker 1: please come back anyway, it was just a great time, 841 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,720 Speaker 1: the making of it, the ending of it, the camaraderie 842 00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:09,759 Speaker 1: of it. And as you know, some of those people 843 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,160 Speaker 1: went on with Peter for years and years. Tony still 844 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:17,239 Speaker 1: with him, okay. And there was a famous story of 845 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:22,120 Speaker 1: Peter and the wall in the studio. Peter had to 846 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:27,279 Speaker 1: go up on the wall. No, not the wall, the pillar. Okay. Yeah. 847 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,600 Speaker 1: So the studio had two pillars in it that were 848 00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,880 Speaker 1: structural and there there were brick pillars if we were 849 00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,560 Speaker 1: doing Modern Love. And I wasn't getting the performance that 850 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,400 Speaker 1: I thought he was capable of, and so I started, 851 00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:44,000 Speaker 1: almost chokingly, saying to him, listen, okay, we got three 852 00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,120 Speaker 1: more shots at this, and if you don't get it, 853 00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,440 Speaker 1: you're going up the pillar. And he would laugh and 854 00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,759 Speaker 1: I would laugh. So and then we tried again and 855 00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,680 Speaker 1: I go, you know, that's not what I'm looking for. 856 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,759 Speaker 1: Two more and it's up the pillar and he would 857 00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,320 Speaker 1: laugh and I would laugh. And then finally got to 858 00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,840 Speaker 1: no more, and I turned to Brian Christian, the engineer, 859 00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:07,160 Speaker 1: who was a big guy, really big, like six ft three, 860 00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:12,000 Speaker 1: muscle bound, a linebacker kind of guy. We went outside 861 00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,800 Speaker 1: into the studio. We we had a ladder um Brian 862 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,560 Speaker 1: held him. Brian like took him up the ladder, held 863 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,120 Speaker 1: him in place while we gaffer taped under his armpits 864 00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:26,000 Speaker 1: on the pillar, and then we took the ladder away. 865 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,440 Speaker 1: And there he was dangling by his armpits. And I 866 00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:33,759 Speaker 1: said to the to the assistant engineer Michael. So they did. 867 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:35,480 Speaker 1: They put the mic up in front of his face. 868 00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,080 Speaker 1: We went back in the control room and I said, okay, 869 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:43,160 Speaker 1: let's try it now. And when it got to the chorus, 870 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:47,000 Speaker 1: he made he made Peter Theater out of it. It 871 00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,839 Speaker 1: was so wonderful to watch. He was flailing his arms 872 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,320 Speaker 1: and his legs and and he went. He was screaming, 873 00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,640 Speaker 1: oh the pain, and you know modern love can stray. 874 00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,400 Speaker 1: It was great. And that's the performer and sits on 875 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:04,920 Speaker 1: the record. Okay. That Peter goes on to make two 876 00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,279 Speaker 1: more records that don't get as much promotion and don't 877 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,840 Speaker 1: get as much success at least the third, not at first, 878 00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,160 Speaker 1: and they have a much thinner sound than you were record, 879 00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,319 Speaker 1: begging the question, although you ultimately work with Peter again, Hey, 880 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,040 Speaker 1: was Peter happy with your record? And why did you 881 00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:25,239 Speaker 1: not do a second record with Peter right away? The 882 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:29,719 Speaker 1: thing about Peter is that, um, he has to see 883 00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,239 Speaker 1: he has to see things from all possible sides. It's 884 00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:38,439 Speaker 1: very important to him. And and I was consciously trying 885 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:42,440 Speaker 1: to break him out of his habit of of overthinking things, 886 00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:44,560 Speaker 1: you know. So I made it fast. I mean we 887 00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:48,080 Speaker 1: did that whole album and and the mixing and everything 888 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:52,680 Speaker 1: in about thirteen weeks. And for him that was just 889 00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:57,040 Speaker 1: too quick. I barreled, basically, I sort of took charge 890 00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:01,359 Speaker 1: and barreled through his concerns and and he was very 891 00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,400 Speaker 1: sweet and very polite, and actually he was having a 892 00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:07,759 Speaker 1: great time. Uh enemy came over and they did an 893 00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,279 Speaker 1: interview with him, which which ended up being titled a 894 00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,480 Speaker 1: Mumble Free Gabriel, you know, is rocking and rolling in 895 00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:17,239 Speaker 1: Toronto or something like that. He was feeling confident, he 896 00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,320 Speaker 1: was feeling like a rock star, and he was and 897 00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,600 Speaker 1: you could hear it. He was performing like that. But 898 00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:26,719 Speaker 1: that was a temporary condition, I'm afraid. And when um 899 00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,200 Speaker 1: he went back to England and back to his home 900 00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:34,680 Speaker 1: life and um, his more familiar surroundings, he kind of 901 00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:39,240 Speaker 1: reverted a bit back to the um less than completely 902 00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:43,160 Speaker 1: confident guy, and and he started to wonder about all 903 00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,560 Speaker 1: the things that he might have done on the record 904 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,160 Speaker 1: if only I had given him time. And I think 905 00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,160 Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, Frip didn't love me 906 00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:54,560 Speaker 1: and probably was saying to him, you know, well, if 907 00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:56,640 Speaker 1: you know, if we've done this, we could have experimented 908 00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,080 Speaker 1: with that, and that this is too mainstream or whatever, 909 00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,719 Speaker 1: and um, you know what happens. It just happens. You 910 00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:07,080 Speaker 1: have a really wonderful time with somebody and then they 911 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,279 Speaker 1: decide that you know, that was great, but now they 912 00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,320 Speaker 1: would like to try this instead. And that's what happened, 913 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,239 Speaker 1: you know. And then he had huge success. I mean, 914 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,120 Speaker 1: as as big as my record was, it wasn't the 915 00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,759 Speaker 1: biggest one, although it turns out that Salisbury Hill is 916 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:27,840 Speaker 1: the most enduring of his song. So, uh, at what 917 00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,680 Speaker 1: point in this does your marriage break up? Not during 918 00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,200 Speaker 1: Peter Gabriel though we were, I mean during your whole 919 00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:39,800 Speaker 1: story here, well you know it was starting it literally 920 00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:44,479 Speaker 1: in and uh, well the reason I'm asking is less 921 00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:48,879 Speaker 1: your personal sturm and drang into what degree was your 922 00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:52,840 Speaker 1: work in the rock and roll lifestyle contributing to the 923 00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:57,839 Speaker 1: breakup of the marriage, Oh hugely? And also my my youth, 924 00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, like I got married when we were. I 925 00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:07,080 Speaker 1: got married at seventeen, and and we had our son 926 00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,239 Speaker 1: that year because we got married because because Arlene was 927 00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:16,680 Speaker 1: pregnant and um, and so you know, that's just too young. 928 00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,280 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you're just not ready for it. I hadn't 929 00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:22,000 Speaker 1: even really been out, and you know, I hadn't played 930 00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,320 Speaker 1: the field or dated or done anything. I hadn't done anything. 931 00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,759 Speaker 1: And suddenly I was I was a dad, and I 932 00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:33,279 Speaker 1: had to be a breadwinner. And and somehow I ended 933 00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,040 Speaker 1: up in rock and roll, which is not necessarily the 934 00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:42,320 Speaker 1: best lifestyle for, you know, trying to maintain a young family. 935 00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,240 Speaker 1: And and you know, and I was susceptible to everything. 936 00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:47,239 Speaker 1: I was like, you know, oh boy, I love the 937 00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:51,360 Speaker 1: you know, all the side, you know, all all the perks, 938 00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:53,640 Speaker 1: you know, from the drugs to the sex, the whole 939 00:54:53,800 --> 00:55:00,239 Speaker 1: rock and roll thing. Um, I participated in. And so, 940 00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:04,520 Speaker 1: you know, in fairness to Arlene, if this was an 941 00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:08,320 Speaker 1: impossible situation, but also you know, we were you know, 942 00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,759 Speaker 1: maybe we wouldn't have ended up married together. If we 943 00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,680 Speaker 1: had had more time to develop a relationship and really 944 00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,880 Speaker 1: understand who we were as people, we may not have 945 00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,640 Speaker 1: ended up together. But now we had two kids, and 946 00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:23,600 Speaker 1: so we did the best we could. Um, we did 947 00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:28,239 Speaker 1: a sort of trial separation. I'm making quotation marks in 948 00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:32,360 Speaker 1: the air here. Um, I moved to New York and 949 00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,680 Speaker 1: basically we broke down pretty much. Then we did try 950 00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,440 Speaker 1: a couple of times to see what it would be 951 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:40,799 Speaker 1: like if I came back to Toronto, and we gave 952 00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:45,160 Speaker 1: it another shot, but they were short, short forays into 953 00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:50,320 Speaker 1: what was it impossible? Um, you know, an impossible situation? 954 00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,440 Speaker 1: So we ended up really breaking up. Then we didn't 955 00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:58,000 Speaker 1: divorce forum several years thereafter, and I took care of 956 00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:02,759 Speaker 1: her and and the kids. We did have some conflict, 957 00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:08,000 Speaker 1: as one does when you're divorced, when you're divorcing, um, 958 00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:14,080 Speaker 1: but we're Arlene is my co grandparent of of you know, 959 00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:18,360 Speaker 1: a wonderful little boy, and co parent with my you know, 960 00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,480 Speaker 1: our son Joshua, of whom we are extremely proud, and 961 00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,160 Speaker 1: also of our late son David, you know, who we 962 00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,880 Speaker 1: still uh dream about and talk about. And we have remained, 963 00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:31,160 Speaker 1: um friendly, and we have a you know, a pretty 964 00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:35,160 Speaker 1: intimate relationship now and you know, as friends, not lovers, 965 00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:40,120 Speaker 1: but as friends. She calls me her husband pretty good. 966 00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:42,160 Speaker 1: I've ever heard that before. Yeah, I mean neither I 967 00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:46,080 Speaker 1: like it. Who blew the whistle? Ultimately? Who wanted out her? 968 00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:52,520 Speaker 1: Are you? It's never mutual? No, I was making her 969 00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:59,640 Speaker 1: really unhappy and I was unhappy. And um yeah, okay, 970 00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:03,520 Speaker 1: so how do you end up working with pet Floyd? So? Um. 971 00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:06,480 Speaker 1: While we were doing a lot of work in London 972 00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:11,839 Speaker 1: with Alice Cooper, I met um Caroline Christie who had 973 00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:18,240 Speaker 1: been working for the legendary Derek Taylor at um W 974 00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,080 Speaker 1: A and London, and she was kind of our handler. 975 00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:23,480 Speaker 1: She was doing a great job with with us, and 976 00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:27,720 Speaker 1: she basically knew everybody, and everybody knew her. Um. At 977 00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:31,720 Speaker 1: a point I suggested to my then partners and Nimbus 978 00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:33,960 Speaker 1: that we needed more of a presence in London and 979 00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:36,120 Speaker 1: we should hire Caroline to work with us. So she 980 00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:41,000 Speaker 1: she came to work for us, and she that that way, 981 00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,240 Speaker 1: she got to see me in the studio a number 982 00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:49,200 Speaker 1: of times. And um. So when it was time for Roger, 983 00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:55,960 Speaker 1: who by then was now UM Caroline's fiancee, they were together, 984 00:57:56,320 --> 00:58:05,960 Speaker 1: they were talking about their future when you hired her, 985 00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:10,160 Speaker 1: when she involved with Roger? Okay, No, but I was 986 00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:12,120 Speaker 1: there when they met. I mean I wasn't in the 987 00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:14,680 Speaker 1: room it was during that time that they met, so 988 00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:18,360 Speaker 1: I knew that she had you know, she was going 989 00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:20,560 Speaker 1: to date him, and uh, and of course I was 990 00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:25,040 Speaker 1: a big Pink Floyd fan who wasn't at the time. Then, Um, 991 00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,480 Speaker 1: they came to Canada for Animals. At the end of 992 00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:32,720 Speaker 1: the Animals tour, they played at either Win Stadium in Hamilton, 993 00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:37,000 Speaker 1: Ontario and blew up the scoreboard. That's a famous story 994 00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:42,160 Speaker 1: with their piro. But anyway, so, uh, you know, Caroline 995 00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,640 Speaker 1: called me because we're friends, and she came to a 996 00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:49,440 Speaker 1: barbecue at our house. Um, Roger wasn't feeling well, so 997 00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:52,160 Speaker 1: he didn't attend, but we talked about Roger and about 998 00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:55,600 Speaker 1: her her relationship and how great things we were and 999 00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:57,560 Speaker 1: so on, and she said, you know, why didn't you 1000 00:58:57,600 --> 00:58:58,920 Speaker 1: come with us and we'll go out to see the 1001 00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:03,200 Speaker 1: show together, and I that I'd love to. So I 1002 00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:06,040 Speaker 1: went with a friend of mine from the street who 1003 00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:08,080 Speaker 1: was who happened to be a psychiatrist. Was he like 1004 00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:12,640 Speaker 1: this massive groupie, you know, this massive Pink Floyd groupie. 1005 00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:16,800 Speaker 1: And we got in a limo with Roger and Caroline 1006 00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:20,320 Speaker 1: drove out to Hamilton's which is about an hour drive 1007 00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:23,960 Speaker 1: a little over an hour and um. During that time 1008 00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:28,040 Speaker 1: he was talking about his sense of alienation and um, 1009 00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,920 Speaker 1: how he had thought about, you know, even like building 1010 00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:34,440 Speaker 1: a wall between the band and the audience, et cetera, 1011 00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:38,680 Speaker 1: and um. And then they did the show. It was amazing. 1012 00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:41,400 Speaker 1: And then after the show he and Steve O. Rourke 1013 00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:43,400 Speaker 1: decided to have a fist fight in the in the 1014 00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:47,680 Speaker 1: bathroom in the dressing rooms, and Roger cut his foot badly. 1015 00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:52,640 Speaker 1: So uh, Dr Biddy, my buddy Dr John Biddy, who 1016 00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,120 Speaker 1: was a psychiatrist with but a medical doctor like, he 1017 00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,400 Speaker 1: wraps it up and we're going to the emergency room 1018 00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:00,520 Speaker 1: in Hamilton's. So here we go in the limo with 1019 01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Rogery Garrell. I would get him the emergency room, we 1020 01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,520 Speaker 1: get his foot stitched up, and then in the car 1021 01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:09,040 Speaker 1: on the way back to Toronto, we get um, we 1022 01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:14,280 Speaker 1: get very um uh frank with each other about stuff 1023 01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:16,680 Speaker 1: you know you just do at six o'clock in the morning. 1024 01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:20,080 Speaker 1: Now you've been you've been through an adventure and um. 1025 01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:22,400 Speaker 1: And we talked again about the wall, you know, and 1026 01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:25,480 Speaker 1: I said, you know, that could actually be a really 1027 01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:28,480 Speaker 1: cool idea. And that was that. That was the end 1028 01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:34,360 Speaker 1: of the conversation. So a few years later, when clearly 1029 01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:36,320 Speaker 1: things were not going well for them. Maybe it wasn't 1030 01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:38,000 Speaker 1: even a few years. Maybe it was just a little 1031 01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:42,480 Speaker 1: over a year. I don't remember, honestly. Um he decided 1032 01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:44,680 Speaker 1: that he was going to do this project, The Wall, 1033 01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:48,320 Speaker 1: which he had written, and basically it was going to 1034 01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:51,160 Speaker 1: be a Roger Waters record, that's it, but that he 1035 01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:55,720 Speaker 1: did not feel um comfortable in handling the rest of 1036 01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,160 Speaker 1: the band. He was sure that that was not gonna 1037 01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:00,760 Speaker 1: go well. So Caroline said, well, you know, I've spent 1038 01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:02,600 Speaker 1: a lot of time with Bob in the studio and 1039 01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:04,680 Speaker 1: you guys met and you talked about this, like, what 1040 01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,960 Speaker 1: do you think about bringing Bob in to help you 1041 01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:11,960 Speaker 1: with this? That's how the conversation first happened. Okay, but 1042 01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:15,480 Speaker 1: I thought based on prior conversation they'd actually done some 1043 01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:19,400 Speaker 1: work before that you ultimately flew over and got involved. 1044 01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:23,200 Speaker 1: I flew over one time just to meet with Roger, 1045 01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:26,360 Speaker 1: and I went to Roger and Caroline's house in the country. 1046 01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:30,400 Speaker 1: Roger played me two projects, one that became pros and 1047 01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:33,560 Speaker 1: cons and one that was The Wall, and asked me 1048 01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,600 Speaker 1: which I preferred. There was no question that to me 1049 01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:38,440 Speaker 1: it was The Wall. You know, that that would be 1050 01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:40,760 Speaker 1: the one that they ought to do next, and apparently 1051 01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:42,520 Speaker 1: he had done the same thing with members of the band. 1052 01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:46,240 Speaker 1: They picked that one, so he said okay, and we 1053 01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,440 Speaker 1: started talking about how to do it, what it was missing, 1054 01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:54,680 Speaker 1: what role I ought to play. Um, it was beginning 1055 01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:57,280 Speaker 1: to become apparent to me that he wasn't really looking 1056 01:01:57,360 --> 01:01:59,840 Speaker 1: for me to get involved in the music. So I 1057 01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:02,560 Speaker 1: just had to say to look, you know, if what 1058 01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:05,400 Speaker 1: you're looking for as an engineer or a button pusher, 1059 01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:07,560 Speaker 1: I'm not the right guy for this, because there are 1060 01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:09,280 Speaker 1: other people who could do a way better job of 1061 01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:12,040 Speaker 1: that than me. But if what you're looking for is 1062 01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:14,440 Speaker 1: a collaborator on the musical side of this thing and 1063 01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:18,160 Speaker 1: the conceptual side of it, I'd be thrilled and honored 1064 01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:23,200 Speaker 1: to to participate. So we had that famous conversation where 1065 01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:29,000 Speaker 1: he said, okay, but um, if you write anything, don't 1066 01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:34,960 Speaker 1: expect any publishing. So at that time, it was going 1067 01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:36,960 Speaker 1: to be an all Roger, you know, it was gonna 1068 01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:40,840 Speaker 1: be an All Roger written, you know, written and performed 1069 01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:45,360 Speaker 1: by you know anyway. So um, I just decided to 1070 01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:47,840 Speaker 1: let that slip and that we would deal with it 1071 01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:51,200 Speaker 1: at a later time. And so then I went away, 1072 01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:53,160 Speaker 1: and then they did do some work on this thing. 1073 01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:56,920 Speaker 1: They had gotten together in London and at britand you Row, 1074 01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,160 Speaker 1: which was the studio that they worked out of at 1075 01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:02,080 Speaker 1: the time, and next door to which was there there 1076 01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:04,920 Speaker 1: p a company p A and lights company, so they 1077 01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:08,520 Speaker 1: had kind of a warehouse next door. They started working 1078 01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:12,720 Speaker 1: on that, and then they called me, and um, I 1079 01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:16,960 Speaker 1: got to London and I was told, oh, by the way, um, 1080 01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:20,600 Speaker 1: it's not you and Roger producing, it's you Roger and David, 1081 01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:26,200 Speaker 1: which meant that was gonna cut my um, you know, 1082 01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:30,000 Speaker 1: my my points and my the the money I was 1083 01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:38,680 Speaker 1: working for by a third and um, and then my 1084 01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:40,960 Speaker 1: mass probably wrong about that. So I'm gonna say so 1085 01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:48,080 Speaker 1: that was gonna cut down the point anyway. So I said, well, 1086 01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:50,400 Speaker 1: you know, I actually got I walked out of the 1087 01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:52,520 Speaker 1: room and just and I called my lawyer and I 1088 01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:56,800 Speaker 1: just was saying, like, you know, like this is insulting. 1089 01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,360 Speaker 1: Here we go again, well you know, like the like 1090 01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:02,200 Speaker 1: the uh the kiss situation. And I was just about 1091 01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:06,640 Speaker 1: to say, go fund yourself, and he said, Bob, it's 1092 01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:10,840 Speaker 1: pick Floyd, and I went, yeah, you're right. So I 1093 01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:13,479 Speaker 1: went back and I'll go okay. And then they said, 1094 01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:17,240 Speaker 1: and oh, by the way, um, James Guthrie is going 1095 01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:20,000 Speaker 1: to be producing too, And I said, no, sorry that 1096 01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:22,400 Speaker 1: I gotta draw the line there. That's not happening. He's 1097 01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:25,960 Speaker 1: an engineer. I like him, he's a nice guy, he's talented. 1098 01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:28,960 Speaker 1: I'm happy to work with him. He is not producing 1099 01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:32,200 Speaker 1: this record. So we had a little bit of a 1100 01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:35,840 Speaker 1: conversation about that. And I didn't mean it to hold 1101 01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:37,880 Speaker 1: James back in any way. And it wasn't that. I'm 1102 01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:41,280 Speaker 1: not um a generous guy when it comes to those things, 1103 01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:45,680 Speaker 1: but it wasn't quite appropriate. So that was my belief 1104 01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:47,880 Speaker 1: then and I stand by it now. So anyway, so 1105 01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,080 Speaker 1: it was the three of us we were there. Doesn't 1106 01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:53,240 Speaker 1: Guthrie at this point get credited as a producer? Yes, 1107 01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:55,840 Speaker 1: at that by the very end he got credit. Did 1108 01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:58,280 Speaker 1: he get any did you? I don't know whether he 1109 01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:00,480 Speaker 1: got paid for it, but god knows, you know, he has. 1110 01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:03,520 Speaker 1: He has stayed on with them as a as a 1111 01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:06,960 Speaker 1: go to guy on many many levels for forever, you know, 1112 01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:10,360 Speaker 1: so he you know, he I think he did well 1113 01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:13,240 Speaker 1: with this relationship and he deserved too, because he was amazing. 1114 01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:17,840 Speaker 1: He was a great engineer, very musical guy. Um he 1115 01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,360 Speaker 1: was exactly the right guy for the project at the time. 1116 01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:24,440 Speaker 1: So that's how it started. And um and on the 1117 01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:29,040 Speaker 1: first day, on my first day, UM, they had rented 1118 01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:31,680 Speaker 1: me a really nice flat. They had given me a car. 1119 01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,720 Speaker 1: The session call was for ten am. They like to 1120 01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:39,400 Speaker 1: work from ten to six. This was all new for me. Boy, 1121 01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:41,920 Speaker 1: you know, this was not rock and roll, but I was, 1122 01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:44,200 Speaker 1: you know, I was happy to do it. So I 1123 01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:46,200 Speaker 1: got in the car and the studio was in a 1124 01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:50,240 Speaker 1: place called Islington, just just off the Angel which may 1125 01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:54,600 Speaker 1: be the most complicated intersection in the entire civilized world. 1126 01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:59,080 Speaker 1: So uh and and and there was no no GPS 1127 01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:00,960 Speaker 1: in those days, so no phone talking to me. I 1128 01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,640 Speaker 1: had a map and I was trying to find row. 1129 01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:07,120 Speaker 1: It was impossible, and I just kept going around the 1130 01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,400 Speaker 1: circles and ending up in the wrong one way and 1131 01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,280 Speaker 1: all this stuff. It was terrible. I finally found the 1132 01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:14,760 Speaker 1: studio and there was no parking because it's a tiny 1133 01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:17,920 Speaker 1: little street and all of them had their they're matching 1134 01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,360 Speaker 1: BMW's lined up in front of the studio. There's no 1135 01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:23,560 Speaker 1: place for rita park. So then I found a parking spot. Finally, 1136 01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:25,560 Speaker 1: and I by that time I get back to the studio, 1137 01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:31,120 Speaker 1: I am frazzled, I'm angry, I'm just and I'm sweating, 1138 01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:33,720 Speaker 1: and I, you know, and I come up. I I 1139 01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:35,360 Speaker 1: come up the door to the studio and I go 1140 01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:38,360 Speaker 1: down the stairs towards the control room, and up coming 1141 01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,040 Speaker 1: up the stairs is Nick Griffiths, who was their old engineer. 1142 01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:43,800 Speaker 1: And and it was but it was almost like meeting 1143 01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:45,600 Speaker 1: Igor on my way to the dungeon, you know. And 1144 01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:48,920 Speaker 1: Igor looks at me and says, they did this to me. 1145 01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:52,840 Speaker 1: You know, I'm heading into the control room. I opened 1146 01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,560 Speaker 1: the door, and people are not happy. There's a there's 1147 01:06:55,720 --> 01:07:00,080 Speaker 1: four guys and Roger staring at the door, tapping on 1148 01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:04,840 Speaker 1: his watch. Which was that was it for me? That 1149 01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:08,000 Speaker 1: was that was the last straw, right, a guy tapping 1150 01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:10,760 Speaker 1: on his watch. I said, excuse me, can I speak 1151 01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:12,200 Speaker 1: to you outside for a second. So we went out 1152 01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:16,720 Speaker 1: in the hallway and I just I started just yelled 1153 01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:20,200 Speaker 1: at him. I said, I already have a father, asshole. 1154 01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:22,720 Speaker 1: I will that this is so demeaning, you know, it's 1155 01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:25,360 Speaker 1: disrespectful and I will not be treated like this, and 1156 01:07:25,400 --> 01:07:28,240 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. And while I'm yelling what I don't 1157 01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:30,360 Speaker 1: realize is the guys in the control room they can 1158 01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:31,680 Speaker 1: hear it, and the rest of the members of the 1159 01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:35,760 Speaker 1: band are going, yes, like somebody standing up to him. 1160 01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:38,240 Speaker 1: You know. I didn't know any of this stuff really, 1161 01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:39,960 Speaker 1: but I just had to get it out. It was 1162 01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:42,560 Speaker 1: just by frustration at the morning. Anyway, I got it out, 1163 01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:44,240 Speaker 1: and we came back and I said, now let's go 1164 01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:47,840 Speaker 1: back in there and let's work like partners. Okay, let's 1165 01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:50,680 Speaker 1: work like collaborators, and let's not do any of this 1166 01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:55,000 Speaker 1: ship anymore. And and so we went in and the 1167 01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:58,000 Speaker 1: mood of the room it changed remarkably, you know, from 1168 01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:00,600 Speaker 1: from when I first came in. Anyway. You know, we 1169 01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:03,400 Speaker 1: had our ups and our downs during the making of it, 1170 01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:08,120 Speaker 1: we had disagreements and stuff. But our relationship Rogers and 1171 01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:11,000 Speaker 1: mine was said at that moment, and from that point 1172 01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:16,240 Speaker 1: on it was respectful. It was cordial. At sometimes it 1173 01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:18,840 Speaker 1: was it was like friendship. Like he would wake me 1174 01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:20,840 Speaker 1: up on a Sunday morning to go to McDonald's with 1175 01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:25,600 Speaker 1: his kids, you know, because misery loves company, you know, 1176 01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:27,880 Speaker 1: But I mean, seriously, he just you know, he liked 1177 01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:32,960 Speaker 1: to hang out and um, and so did I and 1178 01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:34,839 Speaker 1: The thing that happened at the end of the project 1179 01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:37,400 Speaker 1: that estranged us for all that time is something that 1180 01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:43,120 Speaker 1: I regret enormously because because I did love the man 1181 01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:45,599 Speaker 1: and I and I loved working with him, I loved 1182 01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:49,559 Speaker 1: his brain, I love the challenge of him and uh, 1183 01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:52,519 Speaker 1: and it was it was very saddening to me that 1184 01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:58,519 Speaker 1: that that relationship died over my misstep. Okay, can you 1185 01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:01,280 Speaker 1: tell us what the misstep? Is comfortable with that? Sure? 1186 01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:04,240 Speaker 1: The misstep is this? The misstep is this? A journalist 1187 01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:07,160 Speaker 1: from in Toronto who had been my friend, the guy 1188 01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:09,200 Speaker 1: that I hung out with, was supposed to come to 1189 01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:11,080 Speaker 1: l A to see the l A shows at the 1190 01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:16,760 Speaker 1: Sports Arena and um. And he called me up a 1191 01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:20,919 Speaker 1: few weeks ahead of time and he said, the magazine 1192 01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:23,679 Speaker 1: won't let me go. I can't go, and I'm dying. 1193 01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:26,800 Speaker 1: And I said, oh god, I'm so sorry, because I 1194 01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:29,800 Speaker 1: knew what a fan he was, you know, and we 1195 01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:31,840 Speaker 1: were gonna hang out. I was going to introduce him 1196 01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:33,880 Speaker 1: to the boys and you know, like this was this 1197 01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:36,360 Speaker 1: was a massive thing for him to be able to 1198 01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:39,240 Speaker 1: attend it and and review it and all that stuff. 1199 01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:42,200 Speaker 1: And he said, it's he said, I can't tell you. 1200 01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:45,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to hang myself. It is so awful. 1201 01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:48,080 Speaker 1: What am I gonna miss? And I said, I can't 1202 01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:50,479 Speaker 1: tell you that David I had signed an n d A. 1203 01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:54,280 Speaker 1: And he said, oh, come on, it's just us. It's 1204 01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:58,080 Speaker 1: just the two of us. Come on. So I said, look, 1205 01:09:58,120 --> 01:10:00,439 Speaker 1: I'm I'm about to sit down for dinner, but I'll 1206 01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:03,519 Speaker 1: just give you a like, okay, okay, I'll just give 1207 01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:06,720 Speaker 1: you some broad strokes short, but but trust me, like 1208 01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:08,760 Speaker 1: you'll get to see it. I'll make sure you get 1209 01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:11,320 Speaker 1: to see it, maybe New York or something like. They said, yeah, yeah, 1210 01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:13,479 Speaker 1: but I mean, you know, I'm dying. So I told 1211 01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:18,040 Speaker 1: him some things about the show. We hung up in 1212 01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:24,160 Speaker 1: Billboard the following week. It said, over dinner with Bob Ezron, 1213 01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:29,160 Speaker 1: we learned we the journalistic we and it laid out 1214 01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:33,839 Speaker 1: some stuff about the show. And I got a seasoned 1215 01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:38,000 Speaker 1: assisted letter like immediately from the Pink Floyd office. I 1216 01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:42,240 Speaker 1: was told that Roger was apoplectic at this and he 1217 01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:48,840 Speaker 1: had every right to be, and and that you know 1218 01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:51,200 Speaker 1: they were they were going to take action against me, 1219 01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:52,960 Speaker 1: and that I was not to come to the show 1220 01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:55,920 Speaker 1: and and I mean it really was serious. It was 1221 01:10:56,080 --> 01:11:01,519 Speaker 1: really serious and and you know, I was a naive guy, 1222 01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:05,280 Speaker 1: like up until then, nobody ever lied to me before 1223 01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:09,600 Speaker 1: like that. Nobody'd ever like, you know, put me in 1224 01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:12,880 Speaker 1: a position where I compromised myself. They made me compromise 1225 01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:15,360 Speaker 1: myself and then they put me into trouble. I'd never 1226 01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:19,160 Speaker 1: had that experience, Honestly, I just thought people were what 1227 01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:22,519 Speaker 1: they said they were. There's a rule here, never trust 1228 01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:26,760 Speaker 1: writers never. Okay, switching back, there's some stories you told 1229 01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,680 Speaker 1: me I want to cover. Hey, let's go back to 1230 01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:32,519 Speaker 1: the wall and the table read. Well. You know, all 1231 01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:35,160 Speaker 1: during the making of The Wall, we were also creating 1232 01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:37,880 Speaker 1: what we saw as as the stage show. Right, this 1233 01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:40,640 Speaker 1: is another one where thinking through the stage show and 1234 01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:44,519 Speaker 1: formed the record in a huge way. And we were 1235 01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:47,920 Speaker 1: building models, and we were experimenting with bricks, you know, 1236 01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:50,599 Speaker 1: like what would bricks look like? How would they fall over? 1237 01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:52,640 Speaker 1: And I kill people? How can we make it go 1238 01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:56,519 Speaker 1: up fast and down fast? Etcetera, etcetera. By the end 1239 01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:59,400 Speaker 1: of the making of the album, where we were now 1240 01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:02,360 Speaker 1: in rough territory, we we had we had not yet 1241 01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:08,200 Speaker 1: got into mixing um. We had a table model of 1242 01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:12,120 Speaker 1: what the um of what the stage was going to 1243 01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:16,800 Speaker 1: look like and UM, well I'm saying, is I realize 1244 01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:18,840 Speaker 1: I'm answering the wrong question, But that's okay, you're gonna 1245 01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:20,519 Speaker 1: want to hear this. So we had a table model 1246 01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:24,120 Speaker 1: of the of the show, and we played the songs 1247 01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:26,960 Speaker 1: and moved the little figurings around. We had little men 1248 01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:30,320 Speaker 1: that were band members, and we had little model inflatables 1249 01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:32,240 Speaker 1: and little models of this and that, and we played 1250 01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:35,160 Speaker 1: through the show so that everybody could see it for 1251 01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:39,360 Speaker 1: the first time, see the the physical realization of it 1252 01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:41,320 Speaker 1: for the first time, and know what it was that 1253 01:12:41,439 --> 01:12:44,559 Speaker 1: we had been working on for this length of time. 1254 01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:49,360 Speaker 1: And so um, you know, so hard and and it was. 1255 01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:55,120 Speaker 1: That was a magical moment because everybody, including us, playing 1256 01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:57,599 Speaker 1: it all out like that for the first time, everybody 1257 01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:01,439 Speaker 1: saw what we what we knew. We add then back 1258 01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:09,720 Speaker 1: to your original question. So, um, thinking about the Wall 1259 01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:12,880 Speaker 1: as a theatrical piece and thinking about it as UM 1260 01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:15,719 Speaker 1: very much a concept record, not in a loose sense, 1261 01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:19,760 Speaker 1: in a very um literal sense, and it was going 1262 01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:22,680 Speaker 1: to be a story that took us from beginning to end. Um. 1263 01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:26,240 Speaker 1: I started playing with the sequence of things of songs 1264 01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:29,200 Speaker 1: and bits of songs that Roger had given me and 1265 01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:32,000 Speaker 1: things that we were working on in the studio. UM, 1266 01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:36,240 Speaker 1: and I started to see a kind of story arc um. 1267 01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:40,200 Speaker 1: And then one night, I don't know it just bam, 1268 01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:44,280 Speaker 1: just went off in my head, UM, and I saw 1269 01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:47,320 Speaker 1: it all like, so there it is, there's the story, 1270 01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:51,120 Speaker 1: and I wrote it down. I wrote it like a script, 1271 01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:53,920 Speaker 1: like a film script, because it was easier to visualize 1272 01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:59,000 Speaker 1: that way. So it opens up with act one seeing one, um, 1273 01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:03,560 Speaker 1: you know, the sound of a bomb falling that that 1274 01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:07,559 Speaker 1: does not ignite, and then a baby cries. Now we're 1275 01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:10,040 Speaker 1: into the next bit, and we just and I described 1276 01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:13,920 Speaker 1: every scene and stuffed the song title and the lyrics 1277 01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:16,000 Speaker 1: and their lyrics as though they were dialogues. So when 1278 01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:17,759 Speaker 1: you look at a film script, you have a description 1279 01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:20,080 Speaker 1: of the scene, then you have the name of the 1280 01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:24,160 Speaker 1: of the character, and then you have, in a smaller window, 1281 01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:27,000 Speaker 1: you have the words they'd say. So I I use 1282 01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:33,360 Speaker 1: that format. And where I didn't have the the song 1283 01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:36,040 Speaker 1: yet that told this part of the story, I just 1284 01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:39,360 Speaker 1: told the part of the story and said song TV 1285 01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:45,599 Speaker 1: W to be written, UM. And it came really quickly, 1286 01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:48,280 Speaker 1: and by the end of a few hours I had 1287 01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:52,800 Speaker 1: a script for what I what I saw as the 1288 01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:55,560 Speaker 1: story arc of the wall, and then I brought that 1289 01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:58,960 Speaker 1: in the next morning, made copies, photo copies as we 1290 01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:03,479 Speaker 1: had in those days, you know. Um, no, sorry, I 1291 01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:07,000 Speaker 1: made I made mimiograph copies as we had in those days, 1292 01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:10,400 Speaker 1: and handed them out to everybody, and I said look 1293 01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:15,479 Speaker 1: and and um, and I had James ready to play 1294 01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:19,559 Speaker 1: the pieces in the order that they were in the script. Um. 1295 01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:22,800 Speaker 1: So we did a table read through as though it 1296 01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:25,880 Speaker 1: was a movie, and you know, I read and and 1297 01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:28,160 Speaker 1: then the song would play and we'd sing on top 1298 01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:29,920 Speaker 1: of it, or the lyrics were already there and we 1299 01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:33,720 Speaker 1: would listen to it. And it became very clear at 1300 01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:37,280 Speaker 1: that moment um what the shape of the story was 1301 01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:40,320 Speaker 1: going to be and what we had and more importantly, 1302 01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:43,760 Speaker 1: what we still didn't have. Tell us the story of 1303 01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:47,080 Speaker 1: the creation of comfortably Numb. It's been told a lot 1304 01:15:47,120 --> 01:15:51,080 Speaker 1: of times. Um, well, I want your version, which we 1305 01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:53,880 Speaker 1: I've heard from you previously. Okay, Well, then you know 1306 01:15:54,439 --> 01:15:57,840 Speaker 1: the the the story of comfortably nom is this that 1307 01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:00,439 Speaker 1: that in this script that I had written, there was 1308 01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:05,360 Speaker 1: a song, um in d I had noted because that 1309 01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:07,120 Speaker 1: would be a really great key to go to from 1310 01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:12,519 Speaker 1: the song before um that during which Pink checks out 1311 01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:17,680 Speaker 1: and um. And so every day, by the way, we 1312 01:16:17,720 --> 01:16:20,600 Speaker 1: would have tea because we're British, and we would have 1313 01:16:20,720 --> 01:16:24,360 Speaker 1: tea and tea is at at four o'clock every day 1314 01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:26,760 Speaker 1: at four o'clock, come hell or high water, we go 1315 01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:32,719 Speaker 1: upstairs to the the the upstairs conservatory and somebody would 1316 01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:35,960 Speaker 1: bring us a tray with tea and Vicky's so we'd 1317 01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:37,760 Speaker 1: sit there and we talked about what we were doing 1318 01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:39,720 Speaker 1: and what we'd have to get done in the in 1319 01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:43,080 Speaker 1: the remaining ninety minutes right and in there there was 1320 01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:44,800 Speaker 1: a lot that was where a lot of stuff was 1321 01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:48,000 Speaker 1: discovered too, because I would throw things out and people 1322 01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:51,880 Speaker 1: would make suggested. So I said, as anybody got a song, indeed, 1323 01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:55,160 Speaker 1: we need a song in d for this this slot 1324 01:16:56,800 --> 01:16:59,240 Speaker 1: and to tell this part of the story. And David said, well, 1325 01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:03,000 Speaker 1: you know, I've got this little piece I was working 1326 01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:05,439 Speaker 1: on for my solo album, but you know it's not 1327 01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:07,960 Speaker 1: quite finished, but you know this might work well here. 1328 01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:11,519 Speaker 1: And so he plays that high string part tuned in 1329 01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:16,360 Speaker 1: a way I'd never heard before and sounding just like magic. 1330 01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:20,120 Speaker 1: It was it was gold dust falling from the sky 1331 01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:24,560 Speaker 1: and and but it didn't go anywhere. I mean, it 1332 01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:26,519 Speaker 1: was it was a lyric that was not relevant to 1333 01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:29,600 Speaker 1: this story. So I said to Roger, you know, what 1334 01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:32,559 Speaker 1: do you think about taking this and let's let's get 1335 01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:36,360 Speaker 1: let's get the story and over top of this thing. 1336 01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:39,920 Speaker 1: And and Roger said, he I'm not writing I'm not 1337 01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:42,760 Speaker 1: writing lyrics or a melody to that tripe, you know, 1338 01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:45,960 Speaker 1: or something like that, you know, something that was half 1339 01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:49,519 Speaker 1: a joke but half not not a joke. And so 1340 01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:51,600 Speaker 1: as half a joke but half not a joke, I 1341 01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:53,599 Speaker 1: said to him, So you don't really think you can 1342 01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:56,320 Speaker 1: handle the assignment? Assignment? Is that? Is that? Is that 1343 01:17:56,439 --> 01:18:01,760 Speaker 1: what you're saying? Um? And and he told me to 1344 01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:05,320 Speaker 1: go fuck myself, as he often did, and and then 1345 01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:07,120 Speaker 1: we went back to work, you know. And a couple 1346 01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:12,320 Speaker 1: of days later he came and um and played me 1347 01:18:12,439 --> 01:18:15,439 Speaker 1: the demo that he had created for Comfortably Numb, and 1348 01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:18,000 Speaker 1: he said, here's your fucking song, you know and and 1349 01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:20,400 Speaker 1: and I mean when I heard those, and I had 1350 01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:23,640 Speaker 1: the lyrics on paper too, there is no pain. You 1351 01:18:23,720 --> 01:18:28,160 Speaker 1: are receiving a distant ship smoke on the horizon. You 1352 01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:31,920 Speaker 1: are only coming through in waves. Your lips move. But 1353 01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:35,320 Speaker 1: I can't hear what you're saying. When I was a child, 1354 01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:38,800 Speaker 1: I had a fever and my hands felt just like 1355 01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:42,880 Speaker 1: two balloons. Now I have that feeling. Once again. This 1356 01:18:43,160 --> 01:18:47,280 Speaker 1: is not me. You do not understand. This is not 1357 01:18:47,479 --> 01:18:53,080 Speaker 1: how I am. I have become comfortably numb, and I've 1358 01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:56,599 Speaker 1: got goose flesh right now, like right now, all over 1359 01:18:56,720 --> 01:18:59,599 Speaker 1: my body. When I say that to you, imagine when 1360 01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:01,320 Speaker 1: I read it for the first time, and I heard 1361 01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:03,920 Speaker 1: it for the first time, it was one of the 1362 01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:07,200 Speaker 1: most brilliant things I'd ever read in literature, poetry or 1363 01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:12,240 Speaker 1: song lyric. It was beyond Okay. Now, the other thing 1364 01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:17,560 Speaker 1: you've told me is you have this experience. It's unbelievably successful. 1365 01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:19,599 Speaker 1: You're at a pinnacle of your career. You go back 1366 01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:25,360 Speaker 1: to Toronto, you expect your phone to blow up and crickets, crickets, 1367 01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:31,400 Speaker 1: but nothing after the wall. UM, I decided that I 1368 01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:33,559 Speaker 1: wanted to come back to Toronto. I wanted to spend 1369 01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:37,719 Speaker 1: time with my kids. I wanted to UM, I wanted 1370 01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:39,240 Speaker 1: to lead a more you know, I wanted to have 1371 01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:42,080 Speaker 1: more of a home life. And and why not. I 1372 01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:44,800 Speaker 1: just had the biggest record in uh, you know, the 1373 01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:48,519 Speaker 1: biggest record in the world and maybe the biggest album 1374 01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:51,160 Speaker 1: certainly of the last ten years, and it was heading 1375 01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:53,320 Speaker 1: on to be the biggest rock album of all time. 1376 01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:55,880 Speaker 1: So I would go back to Toronto and of course 1377 01:19:55,920 --> 01:19:57,600 Speaker 1: people would call me and they would come there to 1378 01:19:57,640 --> 01:19:59,680 Speaker 1: work with me. Of course they would, why wouldn't they? 1379 01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:02,919 Speaker 1: And then yeah, like after twelve months, it was Crickets 1380 01:20:03,200 --> 01:20:07,600 Speaker 1: and I became Bob Who. And I was working with 1381 01:20:07,640 --> 01:20:12,200 Speaker 1: a lot of local talent. Some were, you know, really terrific. 1382 01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:14,760 Speaker 1: And I mean I did an album with mariraey McLaughlin, 1383 01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:19,840 Speaker 1: really talented folk singer, and UM and I worked on 1384 01:20:20,120 --> 01:20:22,320 Speaker 1: with a band called The Kings. We did a single 1385 01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:24,479 Speaker 1: called Switching to Glide, which is you know, was one 1386 01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:27,080 Speaker 1: of those one hit winner It was a big hit 1387 01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:30,200 Speaker 1: UM in the United States, and I brought the album 1388 01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:35,320 Speaker 1: did You Kings Are Here? Good Man? Good Man good Man? 1389 01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:40,320 Speaker 1: UM And and then Randy Phillips became the manager of 1390 01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:42,320 Speaker 1: The Kings and we went in to do the second 1391 01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:46,920 Speaker 1: album and uh, Randy Who, as you know, went on 1392 01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:49,920 Speaker 1: to UH he ran a g for a while. He 1393 01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:54,880 Speaker 1: was Rod Stewart's manager and UH and has you know 1394 01:20:55,000 --> 01:21:00,040 Speaker 1: a multitude of adventures in in music land. UM and 1395 01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:03,320 Speaker 1: he's a really smart guy and and uh and and 1396 01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:06,479 Speaker 1: you know, we liked each other. So he just said 1397 01:21:06,520 --> 01:21:09,600 Speaker 1: to me, what the funk are you doing here? Like 1398 01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:11,760 Speaker 1: you need to come back out to l A. You know, 1399 01:21:13,240 --> 01:21:17,840 Speaker 1: you need to come where the work is. And you know, 1400 01:21:18,040 --> 01:21:24,000 Speaker 1: by that time, UM, I remarried and and we had 1401 01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:27,360 Speaker 1: a baby girl, and we had all you know, hers 1402 01:21:27,439 --> 01:21:29,840 Speaker 1: mine an hour, So now were where we had five kids, 1403 01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:35,120 Speaker 1: and um and uh. It was not a trivial decision 1404 01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:38,200 Speaker 1: to make, you know, but we all decided we would 1405 01:21:38,200 --> 01:21:40,000 Speaker 1: do it. And and really, you want to know, the 1406 01:21:40,120 --> 01:21:42,600 Speaker 1: real reason why we decided to go to l A 1407 01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:46,280 Speaker 1: was because my parents had already moved there, and I 1408 01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:49,240 Speaker 1: was I felt terribly guilty from the time they left 1409 01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:51,439 Speaker 1: that they were so far away from their grandkids and 1410 01:21:51,479 --> 01:21:54,120 Speaker 1: they were getting to see them very much. So this was, 1411 01:21:54,479 --> 01:21:56,280 Speaker 1: you know, this was not a hard decision to make. 1412 01:21:56,320 --> 01:21:58,599 Speaker 1: I didn't like l A. I didn't want to live 1413 01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:00,720 Speaker 1: in l A. I wanted to go to New York. 1414 01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:03,920 Speaker 1: I wanted to go to London, but my parents were 1415 01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:06,240 Speaker 1: in l A. So that's where we went. And the 1416 01:22:06,439 --> 01:22:09,960 Speaker 1: deal was, we're gonna try it for nine months and 1417 01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:15,160 Speaker 1: if Dad doesn't like it. We're gonna go to New York. 1418 01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:18,599 Speaker 1: And everybody agreed. Then we got to l A within 1419 01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:22,600 Speaker 1: you know, literally, uh four weeks, five weeks, I was 1420 01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:27,360 Speaker 1: working with Rod Stewart and stuff just started to happen. Um. 1421 01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:29,840 Speaker 1: And at the end of the nine months though, I 1422 01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:32,479 Speaker 1: was not liking the experience of living in l A. 1423 01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:34,639 Speaker 1: I love the work, but I didn't like living there. 1424 01:22:34,720 --> 01:22:37,800 Speaker 1: And I just said to everybody, Okay, um, you know 1425 01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:39,960 Speaker 1: what we talked about before, I don't like it. We're 1426 01:22:39,960 --> 01:22:41,920 Speaker 1: gonna go. And they all looked at me and went, dude, 1427 01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:46,240 Speaker 1: we'll help you pack. You know, like the kids. You know, 1428 01:22:46,320 --> 01:22:49,160 Speaker 1: they all had by that time, they had the big 1429 01:22:49,200 --> 01:22:51,479 Speaker 1: eighties hair, you know, all the shoulder pads. They were 1430 01:22:51,479 --> 01:22:54,240 Speaker 1: all due this and do that. They loved it, they 1431 01:22:54,400 --> 01:22:59,360 Speaker 1: loved being there, and so we stayed and it ended 1432 01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:02,720 Speaker 1: up being really good for all of us. Okay. Now, 1433 01:23:03,160 --> 01:23:07,479 Speaker 1: most producers have a window whether they're essentially done. In 1434 01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:09,720 Speaker 1: your particular case, you have a long career. You are 1435 01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:13,480 Speaker 1: a traditional producer, whereas today many producers are essentially engineers. 1436 01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:17,760 Speaker 1: You get into the concepts, the writing, etcetera. But then 1437 01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:20,920 Speaker 1: it does seem to slow down. You have another adventure 1438 01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:23,320 Speaker 1: and then you come back and you walk us through 1439 01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:27,800 Speaker 1: those changers. Well, you know, when when we were doing 1440 01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:32,080 Speaker 1: the Division bell Um and I was I was commuting 1441 01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:34,680 Speaker 1: back and forth to do the Division bell First of all, 1442 01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:39,160 Speaker 1: that was really wearing um. But second of all, you know, 1443 01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:43,880 Speaker 1: nobody was like we we were not working as hard 1444 01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:45,760 Speaker 1: as we used to. You know, we were spending a 1445 01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:50,760 Speaker 1: lot of time, um, making pasta and having an you know, 1446 01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:53,960 Speaker 1: and going out on the river and stuff. Is a 1447 01:23:54,040 --> 01:24:00,439 Speaker 1: beautiful studio, great setting, wonderful um. And I was beginning 1448 01:24:00,479 --> 01:24:03,120 Speaker 1: to lose my sense of motivation. You know, I felt 1449 01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:06,479 Speaker 1: like I was repeating myself on some levels. And I guess, 1450 01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:09,320 Speaker 1: I guess it's just like after so many years. At 1451 01:24:09,400 --> 01:24:14,960 Speaker 1: that point, this is now twenty four years into the adventure, right, 1452 01:24:15,240 --> 01:24:17,880 Speaker 1: I had already started working on some CD ROM stuff. 1453 01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:20,680 Speaker 1: I'd already started on technology. I didn't go straight from 1454 01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:24,160 Speaker 1: music and then start technology. I've always been a technology 1455 01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:27,679 Speaker 1: guy anyway on a certain level. So that was really 1456 01:24:27,720 --> 01:24:29,640 Speaker 1: exciting me. Like every time I would be with that 1457 01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:32,760 Speaker 1: and those people, like I was just firing on all cylinders. 1458 01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:34,439 Speaker 1: But when I was going back to the boat, which 1459 01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:38,240 Speaker 1: was beautiful and wonderful, which I loved, and with David Gilmour, 1460 01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:41,160 Speaker 1: who I love, and all this, you know, this great team. 1461 01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:44,680 Speaker 1: I was kind of in, you know, I felt like 1462 01:24:44,760 --> 01:24:47,000 Speaker 1: I was in a comfort zone, and I didn't want 1463 01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:49,599 Speaker 1: to be in a comfort zone. So I came home 1464 01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:53,160 Speaker 1: and I said, you know, I think I'm gonna I'm 1465 01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:56,080 Speaker 1: gonna stop that for a while, and I think I'm 1466 01:24:56,120 --> 01:24:59,560 Speaker 1: going to uh go into this technology thing, you know, 1467 01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:03,439 Speaker 1: because I believed in interactive entertainment. I was once again 1468 01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:07,679 Speaker 1: working with brilliant, amazing people, working with the Monty Python guys. 1469 01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:10,840 Speaker 1: You know, I signed them to our company to make 1470 01:25:10,880 --> 01:25:14,400 Speaker 1: a series of of c rom games. Um. I was 1471 01:25:14,439 --> 01:25:18,200 Speaker 1: already friends with Eric Idol, and I became really good 1472 01:25:18,240 --> 01:25:21,519 Speaker 1: friends with Terry Gilliam who you know, you know, Jan 1473 01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:23,160 Speaker 1: and I had lunch with him on the last trip 1474 01:25:23,240 --> 01:25:25,640 Speaker 1: to England, and I stay in close touch with him 1475 01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:30,160 Speaker 1: and he's an amazing guy. UM And Howie Mandel, God 1476 01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:33,600 Speaker 1: bless him, another Torontonian, got involved with us to do 1477 01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:36,439 Speaker 1: all these educational titles and stuff. I was just having 1478 01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:42,120 Speaker 1: a blast and and the creative team and uh technology team. 1479 01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:45,760 Speaker 1: These were people that were at the top of their 1480 01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:48,680 Speaker 1: game and that's who I wanted to be with. So 1481 01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:52,120 Speaker 1: we built a studio in um Burbank. We built a 1482 01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:57,160 Speaker 1: large UH animation and in digital entertainment studio. There we 1483 01:25:57,240 --> 01:26:01,040 Speaker 1: were doing work for Sony, we were doing work for Disney. UM. 1484 01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:05,960 Speaker 1: We invented lip sync on the fly. We had UM 1485 01:26:06,520 --> 01:26:09,479 Speaker 1: a new digital income paint program that made it possible 1486 01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:12,240 Speaker 1: for us to turn out animation faster than anybody else. 1487 01:26:12,479 --> 01:26:14,920 Speaker 1: We had an amazing team and in that building we 1488 01:26:15,080 --> 01:26:21,639 Speaker 1: had a couple of hundred young, hungry, energized people as 1489 01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:27,640 Speaker 1: as animators and creative directors and UH and engineers too, 1490 01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:29,679 Speaker 1: And that's where I wanted to be. So that's where 1491 01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:37,280 Speaker 1: I was. What happened was UM Mark Mercuriitis was was 1492 01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:42,679 Speaker 1: UH managing Storm Ferguson, who is the guy who made 1493 01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:46,680 Speaker 1: all the Pink Floyd artwork except for the wall, which 1494 01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:51,640 Speaker 1: was Jerry Scarf. But Storm and his partner Po they 1495 01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:54,439 Speaker 1: created some of the greatest artwork and of all times, 1496 01:26:54,479 --> 01:26:57,000 Speaker 1: some of the most legendary album covers and certainly all 1497 01:26:57,040 --> 01:27:02,759 Speaker 1: of that historical Pink Floyds h So UH they wanted 1498 01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:05,160 Speaker 1: to do a CD ram of Storm's work. They wanted 1499 01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:06,960 Speaker 1: to get all of his works at him talking and 1500 01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:10,200 Speaker 1: all that stuff. And and Mark Uh grew up in 1501 01:27:10,280 --> 01:27:16,760 Speaker 1: Toronto and was uh an employee of UM, the two 1502 01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:20,439 Speaker 1: guys who owned Sanctuary and UH and A and a 1503 01:27:20,560 --> 01:27:23,080 Speaker 1: music manager. I mean he he came to Storm through 1504 01:27:23,560 --> 01:27:27,760 Speaker 1: music management. He decided to make it his life's work 1505 01:27:27,880 --> 01:27:30,439 Speaker 1: to get me back into his studio. So they came, 1506 01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:33,439 Speaker 1: he in Storm to Los Angeles to talk to us 1507 01:27:33,479 --> 01:27:38,160 Speaker 1: about doing the Storm project. And he announced me basically 1508 01:27:38,280 --> 01:27:42,160 Speaker 1: said you are going back into a studio if it 1509 01:27:42,280 --> 01:27:46,000 Speaker 1: kills me. And I said do your best, you know, 1510 01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:50,560 Speaker 1: like okay, sure kid, you know. But he was relentless, 1511 01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:55,080 Speaker 1: like like unstoppable as he is in life. Merk Mercuriatis 1512 01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:59,400 Speaker 1: is relentless. And his latest venture proves that. It's called 1513 01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:04,559 Speaker 1: him no this which was the name of Storms design 1514 01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:07,439 Speaker 1: company that did all those albums, and in honor of Storm, 1515 01:28:07,479 --> 01:28:17,320 Speaker 1: it is called Hypnosis, and and Mark's son is called Storm. Yeah. Look, 1516 01:28:17,360 --> 01:28:19,720 Speaker 1: Storm was very meaningful to all of us and very 1517 01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:21,400 Speaker 1: dear to all of us. And if you could just 1518 01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:24,679 Speaker 1: see my my room here, you will see Storm artwork 1519 01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:30,160 Speaker 1: all around the walls of this house. Um. You know 1520 01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:32,800 Speaker 1: some that I bought and I also paid for him 1521 01:28:32,840 --> 01:28:38,800 Speaker 1: to do a a limited edition art paper addition of 1522 01:28:38,960 --> 01:28:41,439 Speaker 1: these of these works, and so out of that I 1523 01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:43,840 Speaker 1: got a few artist proofs too. So this is like 1524 01:28:43,920 --> 01:28:46,880 Speaker 1: a storm shrine in this house. You know, works on 1525 01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:50,519 Speaker 1: a mission, works on a mission, and he starts setting 1526 01:28:50,560 --> 01:28:52,559 Speaker 1: me stuff, and he starts calling me in for meetings. 1527 01:28:52,720 --> 01:28:57,320 Speaker 1: I think, I uh, I did meet with Iron Maiden, 1528 01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:01,000 Speaker 1: you know, based on Mark's recommendation, and it got to 1529 01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:03,360 Speaker 1: hang out a little bit with Bruce Dickinson, the lead singer. 1530 01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:06,679 Speaker 1: We got on very well, but it's really his band. Yeah, 1531 01:29:06,840 --> 01:29:10,360 Speaker 1: but for some reason it didn't work out. But his cousin, 1532 01:29:11,280 --> 01:29:15,559 Speaker 1: Rob Dickinson, was the lead singer in CA. And then 1533 01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:19,040 Speaker 1: Mark brought me some demos from those guys and they 1534 01:29:19,200 --> 01:29:22,280 Speaker 1: knocked my socks off. The sound of Rob Dickinson in 1535 01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:25,760 Speaker 1: a way reminded me a little bit of Peter. He 1536 01:29:25,880 --> 01:29:31,200 Speaker 1: had that that dusky um, beautiful British Barris Tanner, you know, 1537 01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:37,200 Speaker 1: that um that I really loved, and I I guess, 1538 01:29:37,240 --> 01:29:40,240 Speaker 1: I guess, you know, Merk infected me with that virus, 1539 01:29:40,320 --> 01:29:43,000 Speaker 1: you know, and slowly, maturely like it wasn't gonna be 1540 01:29:43,080 --> 01:29:46,920 Speaker 1: my record. But what I consider maybe executive producing we're 1541 01:29:46,960 --> 01:29:49,640 Speaker 1: working with the team, you know, and slowly, maturely he 1542 01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:54,679 Speaker 1: sucked me into, uh, you know, playing a much larger 1543 01:29:54,800 --> 01:29:57,280 Speaker 1: role in the project and loving it. I loved it. 1544 01:29:57,520 --> 01:29:59,799 Speaker 1: I loved doing it. It reminded me of the excitement 1545 01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:04,920 Speaker 1: of the process, and um, that sort of that lit 1546 01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:08,760 Speaker 1: the fire underneath me again. Okay, now, before we get 1547 01:30:08,800 --> 01:30:10,280 Speaker 1: back to a couple of records you've done in the 1548 01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:14,240 Speaker 1: last decade or so. Philanthropy is a big part of 1549 01:30:14,320 --> 01:30:16,320 Speaker 1: your life. Can you tell us the genesis of that 1550 01:30:16,439 --> 01:30:18,960 Speaker 1: and what you've been involved in. I was in the 1551 01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:22,559 Speaker 1: hospital once, you know, I checked myself in for drug abuse. 1552 01:30:24,200 --> 01:30:27,600 Speaker 1: Is approximately when this is approximately in this, you know, 1553 01:30:28,640 --> 01:30:30,560 Speaker 1: like when I moved to New York, checked myself in 1554 01:30:30,640 --> 01:30:33,040 Speaker 1: a Gracie Square, not the nicest hospital in the world. 1555 01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:36,559 Speaker 1: It's a psychiatric hospital. But I wanted to go somewhere 1556 01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:39,400 Speaker 1: where they locked the doors and I wanted to stop 1557 01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:44,440 Speaker 1: doing drugs. So I'm in a room, and in psychiatric 1558 01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:47,000 Speaker 1: hospitals there's a window on your door. You don't get 1559 01:30:47,040 --> 01:30:50,240 Speaker 1: to be behind closed doors, right people, People can observe you, 1560 01:30:51,280 --> 01:30:53,720 Speaker 1: and your name's on the door up front. Now, of course, 1561 01:30:53,840 --> 01:30:57,200 Speaker 1: I moved in with a harpsichord, and I had, you know, 1562 01:30:57,400 --> 01:30:59,000 Speaker 1: and I had a guitar. And I mean it was 1563 01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:01,799 Speaker 1: like I was air to not to not get in trouble, 1564 01:31:02,160 --> 01:31:05,400 Speaker 1: but I wasn't there um to stop thinking and creating 1565 01:31:05,439 --> 01:31:07,840 Speaker 1: and making music. So I was kind of doing both. 1566 01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:10,439 Speaker 1: So I spent a lot of time with the door closed. However, 1567 01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:14,160 Speaker 1: several times a day an old man would come by 1568 01:31:14,479 --> 01:31:16,679 Speaker 1: and look at me through the window and just stare 1569 01:31:16,720 --> 01:31:19,800 Speaker 1: at me, and then he would turn around and go away. 1570 01:31:20,080 --> 01:31:21,880 Speaker 1: So one day he came and he looked at me 1571 01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:25,960 Speaker 1: and stared at me, and I opened the door to say, 1572 01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:31,240 Speaker 1: can I help you, sir? And he said, you know 1573 01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:37,639 Speaker 1: what means the name? And I said, uh no, not really. 1574 01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:42,800 Speaker 1: He said it means the helper, and then he turned 1575 01:31:42,840 --> 01:31:46,320 Speaker 1: around and walked down the hall with his his ship 1576 01:31:46,479 --> 01:31:50,639 Speaker 1: stained ass showing through his you know, through those medical 1577 01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:53,479 Speaker 1: those embarrassing medical robes that they would dress people in. 1578 01:31:54,800 --> 01:31:59,320 Speaker 1: And that hit me like a ton of bricks. But 1579 01:32:01,240 --> 01:32:03,840 Speaker 1: that's only just an illustration. Why, you know, where is it? 1580 01:32:03,960 --> 01:32:06,559 Speaker 1: What does it come from? It's baked in, man, It's baked. 1581 01:32:06,680 --> 01:32:08,439 Speaker 1: First of all, It's baked into us as a people. 1582 01:32:10,240 --> 01:32:13,680 Speaker 1: My grandparents used to put food on the on the 1583 01:32:13,760 --> 01:32:16,760 Speaker 1: doorstep for what they would refer to as the poor 1584 01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:22,559 Speaker 1: family during the depression when they had nothing. And Um 1585 01:32:23,280 --> 01:32:26,400 Speaker 1: and my great grandfather into whose house I was born actually, 1586 01:32:26,600 --> 01:32:29,280 Speaker 1: and when they would have the high holidays, we would 1587 01:32:29,320 --> 01:32:32,160 Speaker 1: come over and we'd open the cellar door. We had 1588 01:32:32,280 --> 01:32:34,600 Speaker 1: sellers in those days, and there was a tin a 1589 01:32:34,720 --> 01:32:40,440 Speaker 1: tin um box on the door that said uh sedaka, 1590 01:32:40,600 --> 01:32:42,639 Speaker 1: and you would have to you would have to put 1591 01:32:42,680 --> 01:32:46,920 Speaker 1: money in the box before um, before the holiday would start. 1592 01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:51,559 Speaker 1: And and my father was a doctor and a healer, 1593 01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:56,600 Speaker 1: and my mother opened our home to every stray in 1594 01:32:56,840 --> 01:32:59,679 Speaker 1: not just the neighborhood, but from you know, all walks 1595 01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:02,400 Speaker 1: of and from all corners of the world. So I 1596 01:33:02,560 --> 01:33:05,760 Speaker 1: grew up with that this was normal. Normal is you 1597 01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:08,160 Speaker 1: open your home, you open your heart, you do what 1598 01:33:08,280 --> 01:33:11,240 Speaker 1: you can to help people. Well, I certainly know you're 1599 01:33:11,280 --> 01:33:14,439 Speaker 1: involved with the Mr. Holland's Opus Foundation, but you also 1600 01:33:14,560 --> 01:33:19,080 Speaker 1: started music rising with Edge from you too. How do 1601 01:33:19,160 --> 01:33:22,360 Speaker 1: you even know Edge? And you know, as I said 1602 01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:25,000 Speaker 1: at the beginning of our first podcast, you're the straw 1603 01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:27,960 Speaker 1: that stirs the drink. I mean, you sit at home 1604 01:33:28,040 --> 01:33:29,320 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you have ideas and you 1605 01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:33,120 Speaker 1: just start ringing people up. Yeah, you know what, Sometimes 1606 01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:36,040 Speaker 1: I've just bumped into somebody and then I have the idea, 1607 01:33:36,479 --> 01:33:39,160 Speaker 1: you know, because my dad used to say, like when 1608 01:33:39,200 --> 01:33:42,240 Speaker 1: we were little kids, when we had company over, and 1609 01:33:42,320 --> 01:33:44,400 Speaker 1: it was almost always relatives, right that would come over 1610 01:33:44,479 --> 01:33:47,080 Speaker 1: to our house, my dad would come upstairs and wake 1611 01:33:47,200 --> 01:33:51,160 Speaker 1: us up literally to come downstairs and sing for the relatives, 1612 01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:55,120 Speaker 1: and and we would go. And my dad would always 1613 01:33:55,160 --> 01:33:57,519 Speaker 1: say this phrase, and he said it until the day died. 1614 01:33:57,960 --> 01:34:02,479 Speaker 1: This moment will never come again. This moment will never 1615 01:34:02,600 --> 01:34:05,639 Speaker 1: come again. So down we would go because that moment 1616 01:34:05,720 --> 01:34:07,960 Speaker 1: would never come again, and we had to say and 1617 01:34:08,160 --> 01:34:10,600 Speaker 1: and in a way, that's how, you know, that's a 1618 01:34:10,720 --> 01:34:13,000 Speaker 1: little bit of how I live my life. You know, 1619 01:34:13,240 --> 01:34:15,360 Speaker 1: this moment will never come again. And so when I 1620 01:34:15,479 --> 01:34:18,920 Speaker 1: bump into somebody and and I just suddenly I just 1621 01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:23,160 Speaker 1: see all the potential of the of the encounter, and 1622 01:34:23,320 --> 01:34:25,840 Speaker 1: I go for it. Why not, this moment will never 1623 01:34:25,920 --> 01:34:28,600 Speaker 1: come again. I may never see them again. Bob is 1624 01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:32,760 Speaker 1: understating it because he's really very heavily involved in philanthropy, 1625 01:34:33,080 --> 01:34:35,600 Speaker 1: and you might bump into him yourself. Okay, well, you 1626 01:34:35,880 --> 01:34:38,680 Speaker 1: may bump into me. But so Katrina happens and we're 1627 01:34:38,720 --> 01:34:43,320 Speaker 1: watching it on television. It is, uh, you know, next 1628 01:34:43,400 --> 01:34:46,040 Speaker 1: to the next to Night eleven. It's just one of 1629 01:34:46,120 --> 01:34:49,160 Speaker 1: the most devastating things you can see in real time, 1630 01:34:50,000 --> 01:34:55,120 Speaker 1: happening right before your eyes in a major city in America. 1631 01:34:56,360 --> 01:34:59,559 Speaker 1: And it's not just any city. It's the magic city 1632 01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:04,799 Speaker 1: that my uncle, the jazz fanatic, used to play records 1633 01:35:04,920 --> 01:35:07,320 Speaker 1: from and tell me stories about, and I used to 1634 01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:10,719 Speaker 1: dream of as a place where that's where music lived, 1635 01:35:10,800 --> 01:35:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, And and it is a place that the 1636 01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:16,439 Speaker 1: members of you two also were, you know, that they 1637 01:35:16,479 --> 01:35:18,240 Speaker 1: were in love with and they'd actually gone there and 1638 01:35:18,360 --> 01:35:21,599 Speaker 1: worked and stuff. Because it is it is the heart 1639 01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:27,040 Speaker 1: of jazz, rhythm and blues rock, you name it. Everything 1640 01:35:27,160 --> 01:35:30,840 Speaker 1: comes from West Africa, through the Caribbean, in through that 1641 01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:35,439 Speaker 1: port and into America most everything. So when we're watching 1642 01:35:35,560 --> 01:35:39,080 Speaker 1: it go under water and we're watching people die, we're 1643 01:35:39,120 --> 01:35:42,080 Speaker 1: watching people on rooftops saying please save me and stuff, 1644 01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:48,519 Speaker 1: it just it. First of all, I cried watching and secondly, 1645 01:35:48,840 --> 01:35:51,200 Speaker 1: then I got really angry because I didn't see the 1646 01:35:51,240 --> 01:35:53,479 Speaker 1: response that I wanted to see from the US government. 1647 01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:56,240 Speaker 1: It was, as you recall, you know, people were sort 1648 01:35:56,280 --> 01:36:00,639 Speaker 1: of saying, well, you know doing you're doing a good job. 1649 01:36:00,840 --> 01:36:04,839 Speaker 1: Whatever he said said about Brownie, Hell, heck of a job, Brownie, 1650 01:36:04,920 --> 01:36:08,719 Speaker 1: That's what So UM I was planning to do something, 1651 01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:13,439 Speaker 1: and then I got a call from Marty Albertson, who 1652 01:36:13,840 --> 01:36:16,240 Speaker 1: at the time was the chairman and CEO of Guitar 1653 01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:19,680 Speaker 1: Center and sat on the board with me of the 1654 01:36:19,800 --> 01:36:22,680 Speaker 1: Mr Hollins Opus Foundation and knew a bit about me 1655 01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:25,360 Speaker 1: and sort of the other things that I was doing, 1656 01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:27,519 Speaker 1: and so he called me up and he said, look, 1657 01:36:27,560 --> 01:36:31,760 Speaker 1: Henry Jessquits, who who owns Gibson Guitars. He wants to 1658 01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:35,720 Speaker 1: make uh commemorative guitar and sell a million dollars worth 1659 01:36:35,800 --> 01:36:39,680 Speaker 1: of it. And he wants to UM buy instruments and 1660 01:36:39,720 --> 01:36:43,479 Speaker 1: give them to people there who have lost their their 1661 01:36:43,560 --> 01:36:46,439 Speaker 1: musical instruments in the flood, which sounded like a pretty 1662 01:36:46,479 --> 01:36:49,160 Speaker 1: good idea, except for the part about giving instruments to people, 1663 01:36:49,280 --> 01:36:51,240 Speaker 1: because we didn't know how we were going to be 1664 01:36:51,320 --> 01:36:53,640 Speaker 1: able to do that. But h I said, well, let 1665 01:36:53,800 --> 01:36:55,160 Speaker 1: let me think about it and I'll call you back. 1666 01:36:55,280 --> 01:36:57,760 Speaker 1: At the time, I was also on the board UH 1667 01:36:58,040 --> 01:37:02,479 Speaker 1: the l A chapter board of NERO and UM and 1668 01:37:02,560 --> 01:37:05,320 Speaker 1: it was a trustee. Um, so I was here. You know, 1669 01:37:05,439 --> 01:37:08,160 Speaker 1: I had a relationship with the people in Music Cares, 1670 01:37:08,360 --> 01:37:10,680 Speaker 1: and I called up Kristin Manson, who was running Music 1671 01:37:10,720 --> 01:37:13,240 Speaker 1: Cares at the time, and I just said, listen, um, 1672 01:37:13,680 --> 01:37:17,360 Speaker 1: I know you guys are sending money to UH your 1673 01:37:17,439 --> 01:37:20,839 Speaker 1: members out there. How many people have lost their instruments? 1674 01:37:21,760 --> 01:37:23,920 Speaker 1: And she said, that's a really good question. I don't know. 1675 01:37:24,640 --> 01:37:27,840 Speaker 1: So up till then, they've had about fifteen hundred requests 1676 01:37:27,920 --> 01:37:30,720 Speaker 1: for support. They went back to everybody, and she came 1677 01:37:30,760 --> 01:37:32,840 Speaker 1: back to me literally a few days later and said, 1678 01:37:33,200 --> 01:37:38,200 Speaker 1: there's people who have lost their instruments. So then I thought, well, 1679 01:37:38,920 --> 01:37:42,960 Speaker 1: a million dollars, give or take a little, that's a 1680 01:37:43,000 --> 01:37:47,360 Speaker 1: thousand dollars of person. So I said to Marty, Marty, 1681 01:37:47,920 --> 01:37:52,960 Speaker 1: if we gave people a thousand dollars and they shopped 1682 01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:57,479 Speaker 1: wholesale or at at your cost for instruments, what could 1683 01:37:57,520 --> 01:38:00,240 Speaker 1: they buy with that? And he God bless Marty. We 1684 01:38:00,360 --> 01:38:03,880 Speaker 1: went from that conversation to tell you what, I'll give 1685 01:38:03,920 --> 01:38:07,080 Speaker 1: you the first two dollars of the sale of these guitars, 1686 01:38:07,120 --> 01:38:09,920 Speaker 1: which hadn't even been built yet. I'll give you that money. 1687 01:38:10,600 --> 01:38:12,680 Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, I'm going to create a 1688 01:38:12,760 --> 01:38:16,640 Speaker 1: dedicated on line for you at musicians Friend, which is 1689 01:38:16,680 --> 01:38:20,200 Speaker 1: the online service of Guitar Center, that these people can call, 1690 01:38:20,479 --> 01:38:22,680 Speaker 1: they can give him a code. Those people will help 1691 01:38:22,760 --> 01:38:24,720 Speaker 1: them buy the instrument and we'll ship it to them 1692 01:38:24,960 --> 01:38:33,120 Speaker 1: wherever they are. Couldn't be better. So um, that same time, 1693 01:38:33,240 --> 01:38:36,000 Speaker 1: right about that same time, you two was playing Toronto, 1694 01:38:36,280 --> 01:38:40,840 Speaker 1: and and Michael Cole and I were invited to lunch 1695 01:38:40,920 --> 01:38:44,080 Speaker 1: with the band because you know, we sort of knew 1696 01:38:44,120 --> 01:38:47,320 Speaker 1: some of the people involved. And so we went to 1697 01:38:47,479 --> 01:38:50,960 Speaker 1: lunch and Roger mcnabee was at that lunch, the guy 1698 01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:54,519 Speaker 1: that that you would started Elevation Partners with Bono. Yes, 1699 01:38:54,960 --> 01:39:01,200 Speaker 1: and um and uh, and so was Jimmy Ivy. So 1700 01:39:01,360 --> 01:39:03,519 Speaker 1: he's out at the table and and they sat me 1701 01:39:03,640 --> 01:39:07,439 Speaker 1: next to the edge, who I loved. I thought, you know, 1702 01:39:08,200 --> 01:39:10,080 Speaker 1: he was really fun to sit with. He was he 1703 01:39:10,200 --> 01:39:12,240 Speaker 1: had a great sense of humor, he was easy to 1704 01:39:12,360 --> 01:39:15,519 Speaker 1: talk to, he was comfortable. We got laughing. He says 1705 01:39:15,600 --> 01:39:17,720 Speaker 1: to me, you know, the first single I ever bought 1706 01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:19,920 Speaker 1: with schools up. And I said, you're kidding me, and 1707 01:39:20,000 --> 01:39:22,120 Speaker 1: he said, nope, first single I ever bought. And that's 1708 01:39:22,120 --> 01:39:24,600 Speaker 1: why I'm in the music business. Then Bono chirps up 1709 01:39:24,640 --> 01:39:28,120 Speaker 1: and he goes, actually I stole it, but it was 1710 01:39:28,240 --> 01:39:31,800 Speaker 1: my first single or something like, you know. And then 1711 01:39:32,120 --> 01:39:36,280 Speaker 1: and then Jimmy I having uh chimes in because Jimmy's 1712 01:39:36,360 --> 01:39:40,360 Speaker 1: first gig was at the Record Plan and they put 1713 01:39:40,520 --> 01:39:43,840 Speaker 1: him on Alice Cooper as an assistant engineer basically a 1714 01:39:43,920 --> 01:39:47,400 Speaker 1: runner under me, because they figured if he could survive me, 1715 01:39:47,520 --> 01:39:51,519 Speaker 1: he could survive anything I used to break in their guys, right, 1716 01:39:51,800 --> 01:39:55,080 Speaker 1: and he was amazing. He was just like quick witted, 1717 01:39:55,280 --> 01:39:59,479 Speaker 1: smart Jimmy Shoes That is exactly right. We named him 1718 01:39:59,560 --> 01:40:01,360 Speaker 1: Jimmy Shoe is because he always showed up in different 1719 01:40:01,360 --> 01:40:03,840 Speaker 1: you know, he had he had styled. Jimmy had style 1720 01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:07,600 Speaker 1: and uh and of course you know he went on 1721 01:40:07,760 --> 01:40:10,760 Speaker 1: to be more successful than any of us by a mile. 1722 01:40:11,320 --> 01:40:13,720 Speaker 1: But um, so they were all in the room and 1723 01:40:13,760 --> 01:40:15,920 Speaker 1: they were just talking about Alice Cooper and this and that, 1724 01:40:16,479 --> 01:40:20,960 Speaker 1: and then that gave me the uh, let's say it 1725 01:40:21,040 --> 01:40:22,600 Speaker 1: gave me the confidence to be able to turn to 1726 01:40:22,760 --> 01:40:24,840 Speaker 1: edge and say, Okay, look, I'm I'm gonna do this 1727 01:40:25,040 --> 01:40:28,720 Speaker 1: thing for the people in New Orleans, and I want 1728 01:40:28,760 --> 01:40:34,639 Speaker 1: to know if you'd like to play too. Um. At first, 1729 01:40:34,720 --> 01:40:36,320 Speaker 1: what I said to was, do you have any guitars 1730 01:40:36,400 --> 01:40:38,439 Speaker 1: we could sell, you know, and like make some money, 1731 01:40:38,520 --> 01:40:40,320 Speaker 1: Like guitars you're not using that we could sell and 1732 01:40:40,400 --> 01:40:43,240 Speaker 1: make some money. And he goes, I'll do you better 1733 01:40:43,320 --> 01:40:46,439 Speaker 1: than that, and he said, give me your number and 1734 01:40:46,479 --> 01:40:48,639 Speaker 1: I'll call you on the weekend. So I gave him 1735 01:40:48,680 --> 01:40:52,360 Speaker 1: my home number and and left the lunch, figuring that 1736 01:40:52,520 --> 01:40:54,560 Speaker 1: was just another rock star moment, you know, where you 1737 01:40:54,600 --> 01:40:56,559 Speaker 1: give up your number and you never hear from anybody 1738 01:40:56,600 --> 01:41:00,920 Speaker 1: ever again. Saturday afternoon, we're we're barbecuing and I get 1739 01:41:00,920 --> 01:41:04,599 Speaker 1: a phone call. Hey, Bob, it's the Edge, And okay, 1740 01:41:04,760 --> 01:41:08,640 Speaker 1: now I've spoken to Yamaha, I've spoken to this manufacturer 1741 01:41:08,640 --> 01:41:10,760 Speaker 1: and that manufacturer, and they're willing to do this, and 1742 01:41:10,800 --> 01:41:12,760 Speaker 1: they're willing to do that. And what I think we 1743 01:41:12,920 --> 01:41:16,240 Speaker 1: ought to do is we ought to uh coordinate with Marty, 1744 01:41:16,400 --> 01:41:18,559 Speaker 1: and we ought to and I knew at that moment 1745 01:41:18,760 --> 01:41:22,200 Speaker 1: he was in So I said, you know what, buddy, 1746 01:41:23,840 --> 01:41:26,240 Speaker 1: let's be partners, you know, let's do this together. And 1747 01:41:26,680 --> 01:41:29,200 Speaker 1: he said, you know, i'd love to. I'd be honored 1748 01:41:29,280 --> 01:41:31,960 Speaker 1: to be able to do something for that place, you know. 1749 01:41:32,200 --> 01:41:36,080 Speaker 1: And so from there it just exploded quickly. We called 1750 01:41:36,160 --> 01:41:40,880 Speaker 1: up UH micro Pino and Arthur Foco Uh from Live 1751 01:41:41,000 --> 01:41:43,840 Speaker 1: Nation and at that point that company was called spin Coo. 1752 01:41:44,040 --> 01:41:48,160 Speaker 1: It had just been spun out of Clear Channel and UM, 1753 01:41:49,240 --> 01:41:51,200 Speaker 1: and we asked him for a dollar on a ticket 1754 01:41:52,200 --> 01:41:54,880 Speaker 1: help us. To raise money. We hit up the Bush 1755 01:41:54,920 --> 01:41:58,920 Speaker 1: Clinton Fund, which had been established just for stuff like this, 1756 01:41:59,479 --> 01:42:03,720 Speaker 1: because you two had a connection through UH one of 1757 01:42:03,760 --> 01:42:07,759 Speaker 1: Clinton's aids, and they gave us five hundred thousand dollars. 1758 01:42:08,080 --> 01:42:11,360 Speaker 1: The Buffett family gave us money. UH. Suddenly people were 1759 01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:13,519 Speaker 1: giving us money and we were and we were now 1760 01:42:13,680 --> 01:42:18,759 Speaker 1: able not just to fulfill the needs of the musicians 1761 01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:20,560 Speaker 1: who have lost instruments, but now we could go and 1762 01:42:20,680 --> 01:42:24,240 Speaker 1: help the churches, the community centers, and later on a 1763 01:42:24,320 --> 01:42:28,200 Speaker 1: little while down line, we could help schools. Over over time, 1764 01:42:28,360 --> 01:42:31,599 Speaker 1: we raised well over seven million dollars. We got instruments 1765 01:42:31,640 --> 01:42:34,040 Speaker 1: to everybody that needed it. We still had a million 1766 01:42:34,120 --> 01:42:38,000 Speaker 1: dollars left, and so I went to Tulane University and 1767 01:42:38,400 --> 01:42:42,240 Speaker 1: UM we created a course of study in music rising 1768 01:42:42,360 --> 01:42:45,679 Speaker 1: the musical cultures of the Gulf South. So the idea 1769 01:42:45,880 --> 01:42:48,880 Speaker 1: was that when it happens again, because it's not a 1770 01:42:48,960 --> 01:42:52,080 Speaker 1: matter of if we all know that that this music 1771 01:42:52,160 --> 01:42:54,840 Speaker 1: would never be lost. We were going to digitize it. 1772 01:42:55,160 --> 01:42:57,240 Speaker 1: We were gonna get videos of the people who played it. 1773 01:42:57,520 --> 01:43:00,400 Speaker 1: We're gonna we're gonna make it something that people could 1774 01:43:00,439 --> 01:43:03,599 Speaker 1: study till the end of time. And and it's there, 1775 01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:07,800 Speaker 1: and it's been up for years. Okay, So at this 1776 01:43:08,040 --> 01:43:10,639 Speaker 1: point in time, I'm not talking about going back through 1777 01:43:10,680 --> 01:43:13,720 Speaker 1: your career. What do you see yourself as you see 1778 01:43:13,720 --> 01:43:19,280 Speaker 1: yourself as a record producer? Again, that's very funny. What 1779 01:43:19,360 --> 01:43:21,479 Speaker 1: do I see myself as you know? I see myself 1780 01:43:21,560 --> 01:43:23,840 Speaker 1: as you keep you keep using the term alta kacker. 1781 01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:27,360 Speaker 1: That's me for your I see myself as you know, 1782 01:43:27,520 --> 01:43:29,840 Speaker 1: as a capetchy old jew. You know, I got a 1783 01:43:29,880 --> 01:43:35,559 Speaker 1: headache and my back and my knees. And um, I've 1784 01:43:35,680 --> 01:43:39,800 Speaker 1: never said I am a record producer. In fact, I 1785 01:43:39,960 --> 01:43:43,439 Speaker 1: was conscious about that because, um, people would say that 1786 01:43:43,520 --> 01:43:44,880 Speaker 1: stuff like, well you know, what do you do? Well, 1787 01:43:45,000 --> 01:43:47,360 Speaker 1: I am this, And I would think to myself, well, 1788 01:43:47,439 --> 01:43:49,960 Speaker 1: you that's not what you are, it's what you do. 1789 01:43:50,479 --> 01:43:52,559 Speaker 1: So people say, well what do you do? I say, well, 1790 01:43:52,720 --> 01:43:56,519 Speaker 1: you know, I'm uh, I'm in the music business. I 1791 01:43:56,640 --> 01:44:00,760 Speaker 1: produced stuff, I produced other kinds of entertainment to and uh. 1792 01:44:01,080 --> 01:44:04,840 Speaker 1: But also I'm in education, I'm in um a little 1793 01:44:04,840 --> 01:44:10,479 Speaker 1: bit in um uh civil rights and justice and water 1794 01:44:11,080 --> 01:44:14,800 Speaker 1: and and I'm a big time right now evangelists for 1795 01:44:14,840 --> 01:44:19,519 Speaker 1: the environment. Okay, so yes, you are involved all kinds 1796 01:44:19,560 --> 01:44:23,320 Speaker 1: of things. You had ling ling Uh and Metallica hooked 1797 01:44:23,439 --> 01:44:25,759 Speaker 1: up for the Grand we did. We did the Grammys. 1798 01:44:25,800 --> 01:44:28,400 Speaker 1: That was fun, that was okay. You just had a 1799 01:44:28,520 --> 01:44:31,880 Speaker 1: huge success with Andrea Bocelli, a record that was long 1800 01:44:32,000 --> 01:44:35,040 Speaker 1: in the birth thing. And you've also worked with Fish. 1801 01:44:35,680 --> 01:44:38,760 Speaker 1: How many albums you've done with Fish at this point? Um? 1802 01:44:38,960 --> 01:44:41,280 Speaker 1: I did two albums with Fish and how did that 1803 01:44:41,400 --> 01:44:45,000 Speaker 1: come together? So? Um, they were getting to a point 1804 01:44:45,040 --> 01:44:47,160 Speaker 1: where they were gonna make records again. I think they'd 1805 01:44:47,200 --> 01:44:49,679 Speaker 1: had a little bit of a hiatus and they wanted 1806 01:44:49,680 --> 01:44:55,080 Speaker 1: to do something serious. Page Um, the keyboard players, was 1807 01:44:55,160 --> 01:44:58,360 Speaker 1: a big fan of my work. He knew who I was, 1808 01:44:59,120 --> 01:45:02,000 Speaker 1: So when they were thinking about who maybe to work with, 1809 01:45:02,160 --> 01:45:05,360 Speaker 1: I guess my name got thrown into the hat. And um, 1810 01:45:06,760 --> 01:45:09,760 Speaker 1: and I know um some of the people from Red Light. 1811 01:45:09,960 --> 01:45:14,040 Speaker 1: So I had done the Pete Seeger ninetieth birthday celebration 1812 01:45:14,080 --> 01:45:17,519 Speaker 1: at Madison Square Garden where we had Dave Matthews and 1813 01:45:18,120 --> 01:45:19,720 Speaker 1: a bunch of other people. So I had worked with 1814 01:45:19,880 --> 01:45:23,160 Speaker 1: Corin on stuff like that. You know, I guess you know, 1815 01:45:23,280 --> 01:45:25,880 Speaker 1: mine was a familiar name. So somebody said, well, why 1816 01:45:25,920 --> 01:45:28,479 Speaker 1: don't we meet him? I went to Dick Sporting Goods 1817 01:45:28,640 --> 01:45:33,280 Speaker 1: in Alfaretta, Georgia, and and to tell you the truth, 1818 01:45:33,520 --> 01:45:37,559 Speaker 1: the reason I went really was because my granddaughter Zoe 1819 01:45:38,160 --> 01:45:42,040 Speaker 1: was living in Alfaretta, Georgia at the time, and this 1820 01:45:42,200 --> 01:45:46,120 Speaker 1: gave me an opportunity, opportunity to go see her spend 1821 01:45:46,200 --> 01:45:48,519 Speaker 1: time with her because it was hard to get to Georgia. 1822 01:45:48,600 --> 01:45:50,400 Speaker 1: You know, it was not sort of on my beaten 1823 01:45:50,479 --> 01:45:52,439 Speaker 1: path to see her and spend time with her and 1824 01:45:52,520 --> 01:45:53,880 Speaker 1: have her come to a show with me and just 1825 01:45:53,960 --> 01:45:58,080 Speaker 1: like really have a great bonding experience with my beautiful girl. 1826 01:45:58,439 --> 01:46:01,200 Speaker 1: So I said, okay, I'll do it, and then uh 1827 01:46:01,840 --> 01:46:04,599 Speaker 1: and Zoe came with me that we had dinner with them. 1828 01:46:05,000 --> 01:46:07,639 Speaker 1: I didn't realize that bringing my granddaughter was a really 1829 01:46:07,760 --> 01:46:11,200 Speaker 1: big plus to these guys. They're real family guys. Their 1830 01:46:11,280 --> 01:46:14,760 Speaker 1: kids roll around sound check, you know, they love to 1831 01:46:15,600 --> 01:46:17,719 Speaker 1: they love to bring their whole families on the road. 1832 01:46:18,160 --> 01:46:23,080 Speaker 1: They're very, very human and um and you know, they're 1833 01:46:23,120 --> 01:46:27,720 Speaker 1: good Vermont boys. You know, they're just like really nice, progressive, 1834 01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:31,880 Speaker 1: family oriented guys. So they like me, and we had 1835 01:46:31,920 --> 01:46:34,280 Speaker 1: really good conversations. Another one of those, a little bit 1836 01:46:34,400 --> 01:46:39,360 Speaker 1: like the Purple conversation, UM, where I just said, you know, 1837 01:46:39,439 --> 01:46:41,720 Speaker 1: what I saw on stage side is amazing, and we're 1838 01:46:41,720 --> 01:46:43,400 Speaker 1: gonna need to try and get that. Let's not be 1839 01:46:44,160 --> 01:46:47,080 Speaker 1: let's not be limited by lengths of songs or any 1840 01:46:47,120 --> 01:46:49,160 Speaker 1: of that other stuff. Let's just really go for it. 1841 01:46:50,000 --> 01:46:52,719 Speaker 1: I went to Vermont and work with them in their barn, 1842 01:46:53,520 --> 01:46:57,280 Speaker 1: and we spent weeks together and we had a lot 1843 01:46:57,360 --> 01:47:01,360 Speaker 1: of fun, uh, you know, routining material, picking songs. These 1844 01:47:01,400 --> 01:47:03,360 Speaker 1: were guys who you know, who would come in with 1845 01:47:03,520 --> 01:47:08,519 Speaker 1: like scores of songs to pour through each of them 1846 01:47:09,080 --> 01:47:11,080 Speaker 1: and um, and then we broke it down to an 1847 01:47:11,080 --> 01:47:13,120 Speaker 1: album's worth of material. We had a lot of fun 1848 01:47:13,240 --> 01:47:16,280 Speaker 1: doing it. Then we went to Nashville and the sessions. 1849 01:47:16,360 --> 01:47:19,960 Speaker 1: I try to keep the sessions as as fast and 1850 01:47:20,240 --> 01:47:24,120 Speaker 1: exciting as they are, and and you know, to create 1851 01:47:24,200 --> 01:47:28,840 Speaker 1: an atmosphere for them that was um, that was inspiring 1852 01:47:29,160 --> 01:47:32,680 Speaker 1: and UM and felt safe. So they really went for it. 1853 01:47:32,960 --> 01:47:35,680 Speaker 1: They liked it. The album came out people said nice 1854 01:47:35,720 --> 01:47:38,120 Speaker 1: things about it. I think it did. Okay, they really 1855 01:47:38,200 --> 01:47:40,680 Speaker 1: loved the experience, so then they decided when it came 1856 01:47:40,760 --> 01:47:44,880 Speaker 1: time to do it again that they would call me back. Okay. 1857 01:47:45,400 --> 01:47:48,040 Speaker 1: Fish is a good example here. From the beginning of 1858 01:47:48,600 --> 01:47:51,760 Speaker 1: their career, it has primarily been about the live show 1859 01:47:52,720 --> 01:47:56,120 Speaker 1: and the records, even when they were the major label 1860 01:47:56,240 --> 01:47:59,639 Speaker 1: with Electra, have never been as big as their live show. 1861 01:48:00,160 --> 01:48:02,439 Speaker 1: In addition, you mentioned your work with Deep Purple. Now 1862 01:48:02,680 --> 01:48:07,200 Speaker 1: need Let's say they're a classic heritage act, but we 1863 01:48:07,360 --> 01:48:10,479 Speaker 1: know in the streaming era it focuses more on tracks, 1864 01:48:10,600 --> 01:48:13,720 Speaker 1: even if you put out the album, and in a 1865 01:48:14,120 --> 01:48:19,120 Speaker 1: world where it's flattened, a lot of these records do 1866 01:48:19,240 --> 01:48:22,479 Speaker 1: not have the dominance that they once had, irrelevant of 1867 01:48:22,520 --> 01:48:26,200 Speaker 1: their quality, irrelevant of their genre. What's it like in 1868 01:48:26,439 --> 01:48:29,320 Speaker 1: terms of your motivation, Because when you were making records 1869 01:48:29,640 --> 01:48:32,200 Speaker 1: with people like Alice Cooper and Kissing Pink Floyd, you 1870 01:48:32,280 --> 01:48:34,400 Speaker 1: knew these records were gonna come out, They're gonna get 1871 01:48:34,400 --> 01:48:36,639 Speaker 1: a good list, and based on their quality and luck, 1872 01:48:36,960 --> 01:48:40,000 Speaker 1: they might really become known by everybody, which is almost 1873 01:48:40,040 --> 01:48:43,840 Speaker 1: an impossibility today. Okay, that's a that's a big question, 1874 01:48:43,920 --> 01:48:47,559 Speaker 1: big long question. In the case of Deep Purple for example, 1875 01:48:48,439 --> 01:48:50,880 Speaker 1: and this is true of Alice too, right now, they 1876 01:48:51,040 --> 01:48:53,880 Speaker 1: have a fan base that just stays with them no 1877 01:48:54,040 --> 01:48:58,799 Speaker 1: matter what they do. And those people they buy physical product. 1878 01:48:59,760 --> 01:49:02,960 Speaker 1: So in a world where nobody buys physical product, Deep 1879 01:49:03,000 --> 01:49:08,000 Speaker 1: Purple sales are primarily physical. And in Germany alone they 1880 01:49:08,080 --> 01:49:12,320 Speaker 1: sell a lot of records. So um, while you want 1881 01:49:12,360 --> 01:49:14,760 Speaker 1: to say, well, you know that, you know, why did 1882 01:49:14,800 --> 01:49:16,679 Speaker 1: I do that? There's nothing in it for you. Actually 1883 01:49:16,720 --> 01:49:19,280 Speaker 1: got royalty papments out of the Deep Purple albums, and 1884 01:49:19,360 --> 01:49:21,800 Speaker 1: I didn't get that out of a lot of contemporary people. 1885 01:49:22,479 --> 01:49:25,920 Speaker 1: And with and with Andrea Bocelli, for example, we sold 1886 01:49:25,960 --> 01:49:32,559 Speaker 1: a million physical albums millions, So um, there are people 1887 01:49:32,640 --> 01:49:38,360 Speaker 1: who still buy um. Admittedly they're mostly older people. Um, 1888 01:49:39,080 --> 01:49:42,160 Speaker 1: and but older people like music too, you know, and 1889 01:49:42,200 --> 01:49:44,760 Speaker 1: they have a right to anyway. What motivates me to 1890 01:49:44,840 --> 01:49:47,800 Speaker 1: work with Fish, Well, what motivated me to work with 1891 01:49:47,880 --> 01:49:51,360 Speaker 1: Fish was just because it was just such an off 1892 01:49:51,439 --> 01:49:55,719 Speaker 1: the wall idea and they were so good the players. 1893 01:49:55,840 --> 01:49:58,400 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I saw the show and I'm like, wow, 1894 01:49:58,560 --> 01:50:00,439 Speaker 1: I want to spend a few weeks in the studio 1895 01:50:00,520 --> 01:50:02,559 Speaker 1: with those guys, right that that could be a lot 1896 01:50:02,640 --> 01:50:07,720 Speaker 1: of fun. Luckily, I'm in a position where, um, you know, I, 1897 01:50:08,040 --> 01:50:10,799 Speaker 1: if I didn't do that project, I wasn't going to starve. 1898 01:50:11,040 --> 01:50:14,080 Speaker 1: So I got to do it for the right reasons. 1899 01:50:14,280 --> 01:50:16,439 Speaker 1: I wasn't doing it for the paycheck. I was doing 1900 01:50:16,520 --> 01:50:20,240 Speaker 1: it for the excitement of it. And and sure enough 1901 01:50:20,280 --> 01:50:24,040 Speaker 1: that that proved to be true. In the Deep Purple case, 1902 01:50:24,439 --> 01:50:26,680 Speaker 1: it was exactly the same thing. I went to see 1903 01:50:26,760 --> 01:50:30,280 Speaker 1: Deep Purple play live at Massey Hall again in Toronto. 1904 01:50:30,920 --> 01:50:36,040 Speaker 1: It was it was was it the Machine had tour 1905 01:50:36,120 --> 01:50:39,679 Speaker 1: where they played the whole album. No, no, I would 1906 01:50:39,840 --> 01:50:44,600 Speaker 1: love that. I didn't see that show. Yeah, but but 1907 01:50:44,680 --> 01:50:47,240 Speaker 1: you saw him at Masket Hall. So Neil Warneck their 1908 01:50:47,400 --> 01:50:50,120 Speaker 1: their agent is also Alice Cooper's agent, and and and 1909 01:50:50,479 --> 01:50:52,840 Speaker 1: Pink Floyd's agent for the long as well. A friend 1910 01:50:53,040 --> 01:50:54,439 Speaker 1: he called me up and he said, you're going to 1911 01:50:54,479 --> 01:50:56,479 Speaker 1: produce the next D Purple album. I said, no, I'm not. 1912 01:50:56,840 --> 01:50:59,000 Speaker 1: He said, yes, you are, and I said, no, I'm not. 1913 01:50:59,760 --> 01:51:01,360 Speaker 1: You know, I don't want to get pigeonholed as the 1914 01:51:01,400 --> 01:51:04,679 Speaker 1: oldies guy. And you know, I've got to stay with Alice. 1915 01:51:04,760 --> 01:51:07,759 Speaker 1: And that's for me. That's about it for classic bands 1916 01:51:08,439 --> 01:51:10,360 Speaker 1: and he said, well, you have to just do me 1917 01:51:10,439 --> 01:51:14,080 Speaker 1: this favorite. Just go see them play live. Now understand 1918 01:51:15,240 --> 01:51:21,480 Speaker 1: Machine had the album was was a seminal listening experience 1919 01:51:21,600 --> 01:51:24,360 Speaker 1: for me that did a huge amount to put me 1920 01:51:24,439 --> 01:51:28,880 Speaker 1: in touch with my love for heavy music. Um. I 1921 01:51:29,080 --> 01:51:31,799 Speaker 1: was once asked if I would produce Made in Japan, 1922 01:51:32,040 --> 01:51:34,040 Speaker 1: but I was doing something else and couldn't do it. 1923 01:51:34,360 --> 01:51:36,360 Speaker 1: And as you may recall, that went on to become 1924 01:51:36,439 --> 01:51:39,320 Speaker 1: like the biggest rock album of the past ten years, 1925 01:51:39,439 --> 01:51:41,800 Speaker 1: sold like twelve million coffees or something like that. I 1926 01:51:41,920 --> 01:51:45,400 Speaker 1: just kept watching the numbers, thinking I didn't make that money. 1927 01:51:45,560 --> 01:51:49,320 Speaker 1: Oh crap anyway, But so it wasn't like Deep Purple 1928 01:51:49,400 --> 01:51:53,640 Speaker 1: with Strangers to me, and um So I went to 1929 01:51:53,680 --> 01:51:55,920 Speaker 1: see them play live. The opening parts of the show, 1930 01:51:56,000 --> 01:51:58,840 Speaker 1: they were playing their more contemporary material and it didn't 1931 01:51:59,000 --> 01:52:02,519 Speaker 1: really get me off, I have to say. Um. But 1932 01:52:02,640 --> 01:52:05,559 Speaker 1: then in the you know boats, halfway through the set, 1933 01:52:05,640 --> 01:52:10,519 Speaker 1: they go into this jam where they're all, um, they're 1934 01:52:10,560 --> 01:52:14,519 Speaker 1: like showing off there there they hit the virtuoso button 1935 01:52:14,600 --> 01:52:19,120 Speaker 1: and they're playing stuff that just knocks my socks off, 1936 01:52:19,240 --> 01:52:21,280 Speaker 1: and and all the old people in the audience who 1937 01:52:21,400 --> 01:52:25,320 Speaker 1: up until then we're like politely applauding or yelling from 1938 01:52:25,360 --> 01:52:28,360 Speaker 1: their seats. They got up and they started dancing in 1939 01:52:28,439 --> 01:52:30,720 Speaker 1: the aisles of their arms and twirling circles like they 1940 01:52:30,760 --> 01:52:33,400 Speaker 1: were back in Woodstock. It was amazing. It was crazy, 1941 01:52:33,960 --> 01:52:39,760 Speaker 1: and I thought, you know, I haven't heard that in 1942 01:52:40,000 --> 01:52:47,640 Speaker 1: rock and roll in so long I almost forgot it existed. Prague, real, unapologetic, 1943 01:52:48,240 --> 01:52:52,200 Speaker 1: virtuoso level Prague. I loved it. And then of course 1944 01:52:52,240 --> 01:52:54,320 Speaker 1: they closed the show with all the classics, which you know, 1945 01:52:54,479 --> 01:52:56,479 Speaker 1: just reminded me of how great a band they were. 1946 01:52:56,560 --> 01:52:58,880 Speaker 1: So the next morning we had a late breakfast and 1947 01:52:59,400 --> 01:53:05,080 Speaker 1: we talked uh the possibility of working together. Um. By 1948 01:53:05,160 --> 01:53:07,760 Speaker 1: this time I think that they had had their confidence 1949 01:53:07,800 --> 01:53:09,880 Speaker 1: shaken by people who told them that they had to 1950 01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:12,880 Speaker 1: try to be a contemporary rock band. Like that's not 1951 01:53:13,000 --> 01:53:14,880 Speaker 1: fair to do to guys at our age. You know, 1952 01:53:15,360 --> 01:53:18,760 Speaker 1: it's just not this. Yeah, it's not who we are. 1953 01:53:18,840 --> 01:53:22,439 Speaker 1: It's not gonna happen and m and I said to 1954 01:53:22,520 --> 01:53:25,760 Speaker 1: them at breakfast, I said, look, if you if if 1955 01:53:25,840 --> 01:53:28,160 Speaker 1: you're looking at me as a guy who's gonna make 1956 01:53:28,320 --> 01:53:31,479 Speaker 1: like a quote unquote contemporary rock album with you, I 1957 01:53:31,800 --> 01:53:34,040 Speaker 1: I think you've come to the wrong place because I 1958 01:53:34,120 --> 01:53:37,360 Speaker 1: don't think that's possible for you in norder, I think 1959 01:53:37,400 --> 01:53:41,120 Speaker 1: it's relevant. I think that's bad for you. I think 1960 01:53:41,200 --> 01:53:42,880 Speaker 1: if you want to make a record, it sounds like 1961 01:53:42,960 --> 01:53:45,320 Speaker 1: what I heard in that jam session and in those 1962 01:53:45,400 --> 01:53:49,040 Speaker 1: classic songs later on in the set where we don't 1963 01:53:49,200 --> 01:53:52,400 Speaker 1: give a ship about length of song, how many you 1964 01:53:52,479 --> 01:53:55,200 Speaker 1: know pieces, all this stuff. We don't think about radio. 1965 01:53:55,680 --> 01:53:59,519 Speaker 1: We just go in there and be be bravely and 1966 01:53:59,600 --> 01:54:03,639 Speaker 1: on a apologetically prague I'm in if that's what you want, 1967 01:54:04,000 --> 01:54:11,120 Speaker 1: I'm in. Uh. And and you know when I left now, uh, 1968 01:54:11,400 --> 01:54:13,800 Speaker 1: Steve and I had already worked together. Steve Morris, the 1969 01:54:13,880 --> 01:54:15,960 Speaker 1: guitar player, we had already worked together when he was 1970 01:54:16,040 --> 01:54:18,479 Speaker 1: in Kansas who I also produced By the Way and 1971 01:54:19,760 --> 01:54:23,320 Speaker 1: and the Dixie Drags before that, and when Dixie Dregs 1972 01:54:23,360 --> 01:54:25,519 Speaker 1: all along the you know, the Dregs went on for 1973 01:54:25,640 --> 01:54:29,519 Speaker 1: a long time, and Roger Glutter was one of my 1974 01:54:29,600 --> 01:54:32,240 Speaker 1: production heroes, like he had produced some of the albums 1975 01:54:32,280 --> 01:54:34,640 Speaker 1: that you know, being a Progue fan and a British 1976 01:54:34,760 --> 01:54:37,520 Speaker 1: rock fan, he had produced some of the greatest albums 1977 01:54:37,960 --> 01:54:40,960 Speaker 1: in my collection. So for me, like this would have 1978 01:54:41,000 --> 01:54:42,880 Speaker 1: been a fun This would have been a great gig. 1979 01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:45,120 Speaker 1: I realized after that being would be a great gig, 1980 01:54:45,200 --> 01:54:48,200 Speaker 1: so okay, I'm gonna go for it. And apparently they 1981 01:54:48,280 --> 01:54:52,840 Speaker 1: liked the speech and we started the process and and 1982 01:54:53,360 --> 01:54:57,200 Speaker 1: um and and I've just enjoyed the hell out of 1983 01:54:57,320 --> 01:55:03,240 Speaker 1: this relationship. We've we've come, we're friends. We talk, you know, 1984 01:55:03,520 --> 01:55:07,240 Speaker 1: when we're not working together, and um, you know, we 1985 01:55:07,320 --> 01:55:09,640 Speaker 1: see each other in various places that I you know, 1986 01:55:09,800 --> 01:55:12,760 Speaker 1: Ian Gillen came to do his vocals to our to 1987 01:55:13,200 --> 01:55:16,120 Speaker 1: Nasau in the Bahamas, where we have a place, and 1988 01:55:16,200 --> 01:55:18,240 Speaker 1: he stayed with us. He stayed at our house and 1989 01:55:18,360 --> 01:55:21,640 Speaker 1: we did the vocals together. We ate together and hung together. 1990 01:55:22,400 --> 01:55:25,840 Speaker 1: You know, I really like them, but I really admire them, 1991 01:55:26,440 --> 01:55:32,000 Speaker 1: Like these are really really great musicians. He's an incredibly 1992 01:55:32,080 --> 01:55:36,480 Speaker 1: good vocalist and and and he and Roger are seriously 1993 01:55:36,520 --> 01:55:39,480 Speaker 1: good lyricists too. So you know, for me, that was 1994 01:55:39,560 --> 01:55:41,960 Speaker 1: a that has been and I hope continues to be 1995 01:55:42,040 --> 01:55:46,160 Speaker 1: a really fun gig. And we sold records. Okay, we're 1996 01:55:46,240 --> 01:55:49,960 Speaker 1: in this crazy COVID era, but what have you got 1997 01:55:50,040 --> 01:55:55,320 Speaker 1: in the pipeline of anything? Looks like, uh, nobody's going 1998 01:55:55,360 --> 01:55:59,200 Speaker 1: on the road for a little while. So um, uh 1999 01:55:59,480 --> 01:56:02,320 Speaker 1: you know. We're is finishing up Alice is album that 2000 01:56:02,400 --> 01:56:06,640 Speaker 1: we had to we had to interrupt because of uh coronavirus. 2001 01:56:07,400 --> 01:56:11,160 Speaker 1: And we've been finishing it remotely, um, which is which 2002 01:56:11,240 --> 01:56:13,520 Speaker 1: is an interesting process. It takes a little a little 2003 01:56:13,560 --> 01:56:15,720 Speaker 1: more time than I'm you know that I would really like. 2004 01:56:15,920 --> 01:56:19,080 Speaker 1: But but it's also kind of cool because it's like 2005 01:56:19,320 --> 01:56:22,040 Speaker 1: I could really concentrate on one thing at a time, 2006 01:56:22,360 --> 01:56:25,600 Speaker 1: which is not normally my nature. And then I get 2007 01:56:25,680 --> 01:56:29,760 Speaker 1: it all together and and I have managed to clone 2008 01:56:29,840 --> 01:56:35,160 Speaker 1: my studio pretty much identically here in my house in Toronto, 2009 01:56:35,720 --> 01:56:38,400 Speaker 1: so I can get it up to a point where 2010 01:56:38,440 --> 01:56:41,600 Speaker 1: it's um, I can mix it here. All I do 2011 01:56:41,680 --> 01:56:45,800 Speaker 1: is send it back to Nashville to Julian who who 2012 01:56:45,920 --> 01:56:49,360 Speaker 1: puts it through our hardware and prints it there. But UM, 2013 01:56:49,680 --> 01:56:51,920 Speaker 1: so we're gonna finish that. That's gonna be done within 2014 01:56:52,440 --> 01:56:56,360 Speaker 1: I would say three or four weeks, um, because it's 2015 01:56:56,360 --> 01:56:58,200 Speaker 1: not the only thing I'm doing right now. Right now, 2016 01:56:58,960 --> 01:57:01,880 Speaker 1: I am on mission from God to get people to 2017 01:57:02,000 --> 01:57:07,360 Speaker 1: register and vote in the next election. Um. You know, 2018 01:57:08,400 --> 01:57:10,720 Speaker 1: my buddy Andy, who you know well, who you ski 2019 01:57:10,840 --> 01:57:13,560 Speaker 1: with and stuff. We are we're we're on a you know, 2020 01:57:13,680 --> 01:57:15,480 Speaker 1: we are on a mission and this is taking quite 2021 01:57:15,480 --> 01:57:18,040 Speaker 1: a bit of time. Plus I've got my environmental stuff 2022 01:57:18,120 --> 01:57:20,800 Speaker 1: and In Place of War and the Mr Hollins Opus 2023 01:57:20,840 --> 01:57:23,720 Speaker 1: Foundation and Music Rising, They're all going at the same time. 2024 01:57:24,040 --> 01:57:26,360 Speaker 1: So what I in my spare time, what I do 2025 01:57:26,640 --> 01:57:30,120 Speaker 1: is I'm finishing this record. But but Alison I are 2026 01:57:30,120 --> 01:57:33,200 Speaker 1: already saying like, well, you know, why stop. We're having 2027 01:57:33,200 --> 01:57:35,640 Speaker 1: a good time. Let's keep going. So I think that 2028 01:57:35,680 --> 01:57:38,880 Speaker 1: will happen. A couple of people have sent me notes saying, 2029 01:57:39,000 --> 01:57:41,280 Speaker 1: you know, would you like to talk about stuff? And 2030 01:57:41,480 --> 01:57:44,839 Speaker 1: I'm open to it, though it would be very difficult 2031 01:57:44,880 --> 01:57:48,160 Speaker 1: to do under current circumstances. So we'll see, you know, 2032 01:57:48,240 --> 01:57:51,120 Speaker 1: we'll see. Bob. Okay, I think we've come to the 2033 01:57:51,240 --> 01:57:54,480 Speaker 1: end of the feeling we've known, and I think we'll 2034 01:57:54,560 --> 01:57:58,960 Speaker 1: leave a third episode for the future. So Bob, I 2035 01:57:59,120 --> 01:58:02,640 Speaker 1: thank you so much. Going through your history and telling 2036 01:58:02,680 --> 01:58:06,600 Speaker 1: all these fantastic stories from our audience. Well, it's you know, 2037 01:58:06,720 --> 01:58:08,600 Speaker 1: what's fun to tell because it gets I get a 2038 01:58:08,680 --> 01:58:11,360 Speaker 1: chance to live it again. You know. I sort of 2039 01:58:11,440 --> 01:58:13,240 Speaker 1: stay in the present, as you know, but but to 2040 01:58:13,320 --> 01:58:15,400 Speaker 1: go back and relive that stuff, it's really you know, 2041 01:58:15,560 --> 01:58:20,200 Speaker 1: it was great times, great fun. I feel unbelievably privileged 2042 01:58:20,400 --> 01:58:23,840 Speaker 1: to have had these opportunities and to experience these things. Well, 2043 01:58:24,000 --> 01:58:26,560 Speaker 1: this has been great. Bob Till next time. This is 2044 01:58:26,680 --> 01:58:27,520 Speaker 1: Bob left stuff