WEBVTT - Tech Workers Considering Escaping Silicon Valley 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320 Jason Kelley. We're right here every day bringing you the 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.160 latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.320 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.439 and of course Girl that's part of a team of 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.439 twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts more than a hundred 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.240 and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg Business 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.239 Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, bl Bloomberg dot com. You can 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.640 also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.560 on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:35.519 by searching Bloomberg Global News. We do want to get 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:38.160 an update on the virus too, and someone who has 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:42.880 seen other outbreaks and um pandemics is our next guest. 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:46.040 He's Tolbert nin Swa and he's the Senior Research Associate 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:50.400 at Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health UM 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:52.519 and he's former Deputy Minister of Health for the Republic 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:54.520 of Liberia. He has seen a lot, of course. The 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:58.040 Bloomberg School of Public Health, supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:02.200 founder of this Namesake Network and Tolbert joining us on 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.480 the phone from Smyrna, Delaware. Tolbert's so nice to have 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:07.840 you here with us, um. I have been so looking 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:11.640 forward to talking with you. Tell us about your experience 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:15.840 and what you've seen in the past with ebola and 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:20.440 other viruses, and how it compares and to today's pandemic 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:24.320 and what we can learn. Thank you, go after and 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:28.640 hope you're keeping safe. Yes you too, Yeah, great, thank you. Yeah. 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:32.399 They think is we've learned a lot. One of the 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.880 things that I think that is in our toolbox to 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:40.640 be with COVID nineteen is the issue of contact trazing. 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:45.520 It's been done played, but it's an important too because 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:52.600 contact trazy was a very key part of the sixteen 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.760 Ebola outbreak, which I was the incident manager. And what 0:01:55.960 --> 0:02:00.640 contact trazing does, it can help end COVID nineteen because 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:07.080 the objective is to identify exposed persons and prevent secondary infection. 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:11.840 If people in the first generation of cases of infection 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:16.919 cannot generate addition of cases, then you can end the outbreak. 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:19.200 Then we can all open up and be happy and 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:23.920 move along. So but the terrible thing is that one 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:27.919 one missed contact can keep this outbreak going and going, 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:30.520 and so contact RAS is an important tools. Not one 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:34.560 of the lessons that we learned in the ePol are 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:39.600 outbreaking West Africa. It brought the outbreak under control. Very important. 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:45.440 So October it's interesting to hear more and more about 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:50.080 contact tracing. We also know from surveys and polls that 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:55.400 some people are either skeptical about it or resistant to 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.960 it and impart based on who's going to be in 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.200 charge of it. How is the best way to sort 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:05.680 of create a system that people will not only believe in, 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:11.480 but will effectively follow and participate in. So thank you 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:16.919 they are they are contactories in person ports. The first 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:21.160 thing we must know is that contact trasing is not new. 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:26.200 It's a public health for all public health interventions that 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:31.320 have been used to manage major public health academics. Number one, 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:35.160 you know the words eradicate a small pox, baclasses, so 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:39.400 they have been used, facialist hien is vaccine preventable. In 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:45.720 this there are legal business person ports and contact trasing 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:51.000 that's a legal authority from public health intervention. Even in 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:56.400 the U S. Constitutionist laws clauses to protect the public 0:03:56.440 --> 0:04:00.800 welfare as well are common law and general person imports. 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:03.760 One thing that can encourage the population of the United 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:08.600 States is probably helps me to be protected. We require 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:12.960 our children to tect vaccines, to attend schools, to protect 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:17.839 the communities, to protect hell and safety. And if you 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:21.599 have tobacco losses, for example, and you refuse to take 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.120 your medication, you can be required to do so. But 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:27.960 it have the partner of these country, so you cannot 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:32.800 affect other people the same way with COVID nineteens. So 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:36.520 contact trasing to make it simple. This is where together 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:41.520 we saw the audience to limit the spread of COVID nineteen. 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:44.680 The Johns Hopkins bloomers who are public at all, the 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:48.160 bloom that we designed this course so that people can 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.400 understand what it is and it's free. Is online, right, 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.280 It's interesting I've seen that, and um, you're right. It's 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:56.400 a course for people who want to just understand it 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:59.479 and know how it works or possibly get involved in 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.640 helping the process. I do want to ask you one question, 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.640 how do you do successfully in the right way contact 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.240 tracing as well start to reopen the economy. Can they 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:15.280 go hand in hand. The My fear is that from 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:19.840 from an expert point of view, the COVID nineteen the 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:24.240 kid fatality rate is lord the number those right now, 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:26.680 we're talking about a number in the in the sevent days, 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:30.560 thousands Americans close to that, if not in a thousand 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.680 right now. We're looking at it data shortly. But you 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:38.280 don't want there was a reason why we're close up, 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.799 the reasoning we're closed up and lockdown people for social 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:45.159 distances and order that it was because of an infection 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:50.080 imagining they our break started with a single kise, a 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:55.039 few k fewer cases copping to come online. Now, if 0:05:55.320 --> 0:06:00.919 you open up without getting to appreciate your ball euro 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.480 cases and don't know all of their contact, it is 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:07.520 inconceivable that we are giving the virus a blank check 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:11.880 to engulf us and continue to exist. Every parable loss 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.559 that posted as a stent ship threat to make kind 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:21.520 and reopening prematurely for me will cost more damage than good. 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.479 So we have to make sure that it is don't 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:28.640 carefully we look at its size and the data which 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:32.840 district which community have an infection and tomport you. As 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:36.680 we mentioned earlier, we're also integral in the response to 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.080 Ebola in West Africa a few years ago, and I wonder, 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:45.680 given that experience and in anticipation of maybe a second 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:50.440 wave of COVID nineteen here in this country in the fall, 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:54.280 what have we learned, both from your past experience and 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.120 from what we know so far about COVID nineteen about 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.920 how we deal with this when it comes back. So 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:04.880 thank you Jackson. A look time time is very very 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:10.520 centual for for disease outbreaks. During the Bola epidemic in 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:14.880 West Africa, our slogan was it is not over until 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.520 it is over, so we were looking after every single 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:23.880 case testing in creasing their contact. Moving on, we need 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:28.560 to be aggressive, take aggressive action for testing suspected and 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:33.720 provo cases and robust contact crazing to concur, to conquer, 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:39.160 storry COVID nineteen, ramping up tests, increasing of the contact, 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:44.520 assolating the sake we help significantly to stop COVID nineteen. 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.520 And this is where some of the things that we 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:51.040 need to do is people need to go the course 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:53.679 that is being supported by the university by the blombers 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:56.840 who are public helped the contact raising course. This is 0:07:56.920 --> 0:08:01.520 just six hours to complete and about the basic information 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:06.400 of the virus fundamentals of contact creasing. So as how 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:11.000 to define that case, identify their contact, calculated the number 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.160 of time the contact was in assolution you goin to 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:18.520 do and we anticipate for another wave of the outbreak 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:20.840 even we haven't got out of the Hoosier. So it's 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:23.400 even difficult to talk about another way we have to 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:25.800 beat this thing down. Well, you know, it's interesting that 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:27.440 you say that, because I think you know, part of 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:31.160 the process, right is educating everyone. There's so much information 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.599 floating around, and your point is we all have to 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.600 understand how contact tracing works so that we can essentially 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:43.200 buy into it. Um. Because rightfully, so that's a way 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.360 of really getting hold of this virus. Having said that, 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:48.800 I do wonder then, as you see in the United 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:53.920 States States reopening, the process of coming back, Uh, it's 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:57.000 not equal across the country. Do you think the process 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.920 that's being done right now of reopening and people doing 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.079 different things in different places, does it make sense or 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:05.959 is it dangerous? It's it's a huge race. It's a 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:12.000 huge race. Um. I'm seriously concerned after dealing with refraction 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:17.640 disease like ebola, don't the magnitude and the the fatality 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.840 is not the same the keys fatality rates for ebol at, 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:23.600 which is about fifty of the people that will get 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:25.959 the disease with COVID nineteen, that is less than two 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:31.200 But in that COVID nineteen is still effecting and killing 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:34.439 a lot of Americans, and so I would be very 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:39.640 very cautious as signed sound is warning that it is 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.079 very much premature to open up this country when you're 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:48.160 having huge infection states without America is one country. This 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:53.920 is one country. So whether a state in a zero 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:58.240 cases and another state is having a disease, which would 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:00.679 be prepared to label the disease on let's somewhere, is 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:03.520 telling me that we are now give up, that this 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.040 is an endemic disease that we're going to live with. 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:09.120 Okay with people, but once there is no note your 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.839 new vaccines to open this country while you're port in 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:16.200 the population of the United States are very very serious, right. 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:21.440 This is why, this is why we are in forming 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.880 the public. It's important. Part of the course is skills 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:29.839 for effective communications, increasing processes such as what it means 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.959 to be an active listener and how to deal with 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.880 the common challenges that arise will be investigating cases, so 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:41.600 contact raising is very important. Testing is important. Let us 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:45.199 get to zero, then we know that we're making a progress. Right. 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:47.719 All right, Well, we really appreciate your time today. Thank 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:51.200 you so much. Tolbert nian Swa is Senior Research Associate 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:55.000 in the Department of International Health, Chance Hopkins University, Bloomberg 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:58.040 School of Public Health. Also importantly the former Deputy Minister 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:01.920 of Health for the Republic of Liberia leading the Abola outbreak. 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.599 And I have to say, Carol, it strikes me in 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:08.800 having this conversation that if you say to people here 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.760 in America, this is like Ebola, we have lessons to 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.959 learn from me Bola, maybe that will sort of grab 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:19.120 people a little bit more and understand how critical these 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:23.200 things are. Right now, you're listening to Bloomberg Business Week, 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.839 Jason Kelly, Carol Masster, and I believe a coughing Joel Webber. 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:30.680 Hopefully he will catch his breath there and join us 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.040 in a second. He is the editor of Bloomberg Business Week, 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:36.200 joining us on a remote line from Brooklyn. Also Sarah Fryer, 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.679 tech reporter for Bloomberg and notably the author of the 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:43.760 fantastic new book No Filter, The Inside Story of Instagram, 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:47.920 the number one new release on Amazon. I noted yesterday, 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.439 Sarah Joins is on the phone from San Francisco. She's 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:55.560 back hard at work pumping out great stories for the magazine. 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:59.880 So I have to start with you, Joel. It was 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:02.839 a you coughing there you go, thank you? Was not 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.600 it was one of our producers. Sorry, John, didn't need 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:12.199 to call you out. It's okay, Joe. We'll still like 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:16.280 you if you're coughing on air, It's okay. Uh So 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:20.079 this story started actually with some amazing little tweets that 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:23.679 I saw Sarah doing, and it was sort of just 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.679 her asking people in Silicon Valley of like, hey, as 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.120 as companies announced that you don't need to come into 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.920 the office between and into the year, what are your plans? 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:35.839 And the moment I saw her tweets those questions, I 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:37.959 was like, whatever these answers are, I want to know 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.800 about them, and Sarah, what did you find out? Well, 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:44.440 it was I just got this influx of replies from 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:48.000 people who said, you know what, if I can take 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.640 my text salary with me and I don't have to 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.560 go into the office, I want more space. I don't 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.400 want to be paying three thousand to four thousand dollars 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:01.920 in rent for an apartment isn't even close to my office, 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.719 but isn't even giving me the space I need to 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.040 feel comfortable. People with young children were feeling like they 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:12.199 could really use a backyard right about now. And with 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:14.800 that salary that you make in the tech industry, you 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:17.800 could live, You could buy a house pretty much anywhere 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.040 except to the Bay Area. The Bay Area has had 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:24.400 this incredible affordability crisis over the last few years, and 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:27.840 even these tech workers really can't can't buy there if 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.920 they're early in their careers yet, and that makes them 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:34.280 a whole lot more mobile. I gotta say, Sarah, I 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:38.120 keep thinking about all these grand tech campuses, right. Apple 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.720 just built a whole new headquarters, and I do wonder 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.360 if you know, as you say in your story, these 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:48.360 companies are known for being very office centric, and yet 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.040 maybe this will be a big change for them. I 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.520 don't know what are you hearing from the companies. It's 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.080 funny because they're building these tools for us to connect 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:58.439 with each other remotely, right, but they are they are 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:00.959 so office centric. I mean, you've seen get parodied in 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:05.599 in HBO Silicon Valley. You've seen you've seen people just 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.840 care so much about the perk wars, you know, are 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:10.400 they going to give me laundry that, Are they going 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:11.880 to give me yoga? Are they going to give me 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:16.040 uh these offsite retreats that we've heard about in the 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:20.080 tech industry, it really has been a tool for recruiting. 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:22.680 But guess what, when people go back to the office, 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.080 they're not going to have those shared shuttle buses. They're 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.320 not going to have the cafeterias where anyone can serve 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:30.560 themselves around food. They're not going to have these wide 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:35.920 up and wide open places to gather indoors. Because companies 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.160 are already talking about changing things up for coronavirus and 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:41.680 maybe we'll go back to cubicles, maybe we'll go back 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:45.200 to glass dividers, and and I just think that the 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.000 experience everyone's saying not only is the experience is going 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.640 to be so much different, but companies are realizing that 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.240 all of those investments that they made in their office 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:59.680 and that culture, it's their employees are still being productive 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.960 from home. And they wouldn't make announcements like this if 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:07.880 they if they weren't going to see uh similar level 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.120 of productivity from their staffs. I think we're going to 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.840 see a very dramatic change in the investment in the 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:17.120 office culture. Okay, so, Sarah, if if if I'm a 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:19.880 tech worker and I can live anywhere and do my 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.760 job remotely, that sounds pretty great, especially if I can 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:27.640 keep my salary, right. But a company might look at 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:29.520 that and say, you know, you know what, now that 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:32.880 you're remote, Um, maybe you don't deserve as much as 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:35.400 before when when the expectation was that you were on 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:37.880 on campus. And maybe there's even something that we might 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.760 be able to pay less. Um. How is how do 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:46.160 you foresee that playing out in two directions because employees, 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:49.080 once they move, maybe not for this job, maybe they'll 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.480 get to keep their their salary for a couple of 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.920 years while coronavirus is still an issue, but for the 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.080 next job, for the next gig they're trying to find 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.480 after that. The head of people at Twili, one of 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:02.400 the tech companies I talked to you for this, said, 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.040 it's probably bad business practice for us to pay those 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.400 people the same thing that that we would pay them 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.800 in the Bay Area. And by the way, because these 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:14.920 workers are working from anywhere, maybe we can recruit from 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.920 anywhere too. Maybe our next engineer doesn't have to come 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.080 from San Francisco with the salaries. Maybe they can come 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.160 from Nashville right right there, labor pool right if you 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.080 think about it, their potential, they can go anywhere they 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:31.400 want potentially. So, Sarah, you know you wrote about so 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.360 eloquently in your book No Filter, The Inside Story of 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.520 Instagram Bight wherever you get your books, Um, you wrote 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.760 about so well about the culture of Facebook and the 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:44.720 culture of Instagram. So many of these cultures, one could argue, 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.520 do rely on the culture of Silicon Valley. And as 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:50.960 you say, it's been parodied in Silicon Valley, it's been 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.760 celebrated in movies like The Internship. My son and I 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.400 watched that just the other night, and it's a very 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:01.240 attractive but also very collaborative way. It does encourage a 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:05.880 certain vibe. How much did these companies worry about losing 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:10.160 the things that made them so special? They certainly worry 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:12.240 about it. And that's one thing that really came through 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.800 in my reporting of the book is that employees really 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:18.919 cared whether the Instagram office looks different than the Facebook office, 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:21.720 whether they were able to build their own vibe, their 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:25.880 own brand, UM be as design centric in their own 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:28.800 way as they wanted to be. And I think that 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:33.720 after this, we are still going to see an emphasis 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.840 on on office culture, but it's going to take a 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.960 long time to get back to normal, and it won't 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:41.720 go back to how it was. There will have to 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:44.760 be a completely new normal. And I think that you're 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:48.040 going to see culture evolved, just like we're seeing the 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:52.000 way we communicate evolved. We are not able to you know, 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.000 I went to a Zoom wedding over the weekend. I've 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:57.600 been to a Zoom baby shower. Like things are going 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:02.720 different for a long time. Um, okay, So I want 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:05.359 to also have one more follow up, Sarah, And I 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:07.920 know you didn't go into this in the story, but 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:11.280 I'm really curious if we see this influx or exodus, 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:16.840 I guess tech exodus um from California to other places 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:21.280 in the country, could we potentially see they're being sort 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:25.000 of like a small business boom as company if people 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:27.320 leave big tech companies, could there be sort of a 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:30.080 small tech movement that comes out of the pandemic. And 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:33.560 so I got about forty seconds here. You're certainly going 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:36.200 to see the potential for the next great startup to 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.560 come from anywhere, and you're also going to see some 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.440 justification in these towns that are getting this influx of 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:46.840 workers with high faleries. But maybe it'll loose their economies 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.920 on the flip side. Yeah, yeah, it's going to be 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:53.399 fascinating to see, all right. Sarah Frere Friar, excuse me. 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.200 Sarah Fryer, great story tech reporter for Bloomberg. Also the 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:59.480 author of No Filter, the inside story of Instagram. It's great, 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:03.199 quarantine crop at Amazon, great reviews. Yeah, it's all over 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.640 the place. So it's so good you're listening to Bloomberg 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:09.440 business Week and a personal experience set Our next guest 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:11.960 on the path to creating a global management and services 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:16.280 medical company in a way disrupting how we approach healthcare. 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.760 She believes the pandemic may do the same. Sigel Ottsman 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.040 is founder and CEO of Medics Global and joining us 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.520 on this Thursday on the phone from Tel Aviv, Israel. Um, 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:29.040 see y'all, so nice to have you here with us. Um. 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:31.600 First of all, I hope you're doing okay, your family, 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:35.480 your team doing okay. Yes, I am. We're keeping safe, 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.520 putting all the efforts in it. And thank you so much, 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.560 care of for having me today and what's it like. 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:42.680 Give us, you know, one of the things as we've 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:44.879 talked to people around the world, you know, is telling 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:47.480 us how the virus is impacting them and what you're 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.359 seeing on the ground there in Tel Aviv. Tell us 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:54.440 just what's going on right now. So it's been a 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:59.760 crazy journey. Actually, I traveled really till quite lately, and 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:04.280 and it's been interesting to see different responses by different 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:07.959 cultures and different people. I came back from Singapore, then 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:12.200 traveled to Dubai, from there to Israel. So in Singapore 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:16.359 people were quiet, laid back, no one almost square masks 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.159 up to eight seven weeks ago, and then in Dubai 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.840 UM stress levels were going up slowly. And then I 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.280 came back to Tel Aviv, where I was put in 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:30.200 quarantine actually for fourteen days because I just came in, 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:35.040 which was quite an experience. UM. I was quarantined UM 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:38.080 and I had my office set up in an apartment, 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:42.119 which was an interesting experience. I think everyone, how around 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:45.000 the world, is really feeling the same. UM. Everyone is 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:48.040 looking at how to keep safe, how the economy is 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:50.920 going to recover, when all the vaccines going to come, 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:55.159 and how are we actually going to consume and be 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.800 provided health care services in the future. So I think 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:02.560 a lot of questions, um, a lot of stress and 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:07.200 trying to be disciplined in keeping safe. And so it's 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:10.320 such an interesting point because I feel like we are 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:13.120 learning a lot about ourselves to your point, and sort 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:14.879 of what we need and what what we don't need 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:17.720 when it comes to certain services, and maybe more importantly, 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:21.639 how we expect those services to be delivered. One of 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:25.520 the questions that we're constantly asking to folks, especially in 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:29.119 your business and the broadly defined healthcare and technology businesses, 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:33.600 what is temporary and what is lasting? Do you have 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:37.720 a sense of that, and what's your prediction. I think 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:40.800 what we've seen in the last twenty years is gone. 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:45.840 We're going to really, um significant re evolution. I don't 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:48.879 call it a revolution, but the re evolution of the 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:53.080 health care systems. Going to a doctor, to a GP 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:58.320 clinic is history. Most people, I want to have accessive, 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:04.000 immediate accessibility, an implementation of speaking to a doctor online, 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:07.920 having access to data analytics of how we're people with 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:11.520 my same symptoms diagnosed and how are they treated and 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:14.240 how did that work out for them? UM. So I 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:17.639 think that going to see doctors is going the numbers 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:20.560 are going to go down. People are gonna look at 0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:25.560 accessibility and it's going to be immediate. Digital health, artificial 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:31.040 intelligence is the future. What we've seen until today is 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:36.919 never going to come back. Really, I I really believe 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:41.680 that telehealth using digital tools and artificial intelligence are really 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:45.520 going to change the landscape. Um. If you know, when 0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:48.400 I meet a lot of CEOs and we discussed how 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:52.800 is this going to reinvent healthcare systems? We all think 0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:55.800 that you know, in the future, instead of going to 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:58.640 see a doctor who's going to give his personal opinion 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:02.760 before discussing with the doctor, you would probably push a 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:07.240 button and get okay with my symptoms and my genetic 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:13.639 makeup and my medical background. Nine million and whatever, hundreds 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:16.520 of thousands of people with the same symptoms and the 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:20.200 same conditions have been diagnosed with this and this and 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:23.920 have been treated with that sort of solution. So before 0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:25.960 you see a doctor, you would go with data. You 0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:29.119 would be more educated, and you will be able to 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:33.680 make more evidence based and more objective decisions before even 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:36.560 getting out of your house. And you will be able 0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:38.760 to do that from the comfort and the safety of 0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:41.320 your own home. It almost sounds like some screaming before 0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:43.119 you like, I mean, because what's the next step? I 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:44.600 mean if I have a doctor who needs to have 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:46.200 a lot of E N T things, you know, and 0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:49.560 I'm often scoped in my throat, so you know what 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:52.680 I mean, where does that fit in? I can't scope myself, 0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:55.199 so I'm just wondering, then what's the next step? I mean, 0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:58.879 what's the procedures? So first of all, the decision of 0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:01.080 how often do you you need to be scoped is 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:05.320 a big decision, right, So more data about how necessary 0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:09.280 is my treatment? UM? How what's the outcome of an 0:24:09.320 --> 0:24:13.879