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Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, do you read science articles in the popular press?

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Speaker 1: You know, I can't help myself because I love hearing

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Speaker 1: about new science discoveries, but I always read them with

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Speaker 1: a big grain of salt. You don't trust him well?

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Speaker 1: You know, Sometimes I read an article where I actually

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Speaker 1: know the science really well, and often I strongly disagree

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Speaker 1: with how it's presented. And by often you mean always know.

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Speaker 1: There are some great science journalists out there, but I

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Speaker 1: guess I mean general you don't have a lot of

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Speaker 1: confidence in science journalists. I mean sometimes you read these

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Speaker 1: popular science articles that are just totally bonkers, like the

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Speaker 1: headline scientists discover the universe is filled with invisible dark matter. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that one's actually pretty good. Or physics discovers a new

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Speaker 1: forced tearing the universe apart. All right. It sounds like

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Speaker 1: clickbait but also true. Oh man, then how do I

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Speaker 1: tell the difference? I guess you have to email us

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Speaker 1: and we'll break it down for you on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Like they I am or Hey, I'm a cartoonist and

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Speaker 1: the creator of PhD comics. Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a

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Speaker 1: particle physicist, and I'll admit to gritting my teeth while

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Speaker 1: reading popular science article excitement. You just read it and

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Speaker 1: you're so excited you clench your draw No, not always

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Speaker 1: out of excitement. Sometimes I see a headline and I think,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, how could they even write that? What

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Speaker 1: if it's something you don't know, are not familiar with. Well,

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Speaker 1: then you know, I have to extrapolate, and I say, well,

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Speaker 1: if I know that it's bonkers half the time, then

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Speaker 1: there's a good chance that this is a bonker's article.

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Speaker 1: And so I had to write to a friend of

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Speaker 1: mine who is an expert in that area and say,

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Speaker 1: how bonkers is this? I see it's bonkers until proven otherwise.

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Speaker 1: That's my general philosophy. That's our general podcast. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge Explained the Universe, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio, in which we explore the bonkers nature of

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Speaker 1: the universe, some of it true, some of it clickbait,

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Speaker 1: and we break it down for you. We want you

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Speaker 1: to understand the truth about our crazy, amazing, wonderful, beautiful

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Speaker 1: universe without resorting to silly science journalism. Well, I guess

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Speaker 1: it's tricky, because you know, sometimes the universe is kind

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Speaker 1: of bonkers, right, So I guess the question it's more about,

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Speaker 1: you know, telling the difference between things that are maybe

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Speaker 1: overblown and what scientists actually discover. Yeah, and as a

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Speaker 1: lay person, how can you tell the difference, Because there

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Speaker 1: really are things that science has discovered that are hard

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Speaker 1: to understand, that are hard to take seriously. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the universe is billions of years old and began with

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Speaker 1: a huge explosion. I mean, it's ridiculous. There are pockets

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Speaker 1: of space out there that light cannot even escape and

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Speaker 1: can eat any kind of matter. I mean it sounds

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Speaker 1: absurd and made up, but some of it is true.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes we pay people to sit around and drink coffee

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Speaker 1: and smash particles together. That's that's bonkers as well. Now

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Speaker 1: you're being ridiculous. Come on, I heard it happens in Geneva.

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Speaker 1: That's not a job. Come on, I guess it's like

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Speaker 1: podcasting to miss No. I feel very fortunate to be

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Speaker 1: able to smash particles together to try to reveal the

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Speaker 1: secrets of the universe, and we take our responsibility very

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Speaker 1: seriously on this podcast to explain the science to you

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Speaker 1: in a way that actually makes sense and doesn't overhype

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Speaker 1: the already amazing discoveries of science. Yeah, So to be

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Speaker 1: on the program, we'll be discussing a recent article in

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Speaker 1: the popular press that has some apparently pretty bonkers results

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Speaker 1: from none other than NASA. That's right. And this is

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Speaker 1: an article that went all around the Internet and readers

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Speaker 1: from all over the world asked us what is this real?

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Speaker 1: Made a lot of noise on Twitter and on the

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Speaker 1: rest of the internets, and so we thought to be

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Speaker 1: useful to break it down for you, to tell you

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Speaker 1: what actually happened, why it really is fascinating scientifically, but

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Speaker 1: why the clickbait headlines may have gone a step too far.

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Speaker 1: What does a lot of noise and Twitter sound like?

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Speaker 1: Is it like click click, click, chirp, chirp, chirp, chirp,

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Speaker 1: chirp chirp, unlike unlike like like retweet retweeting. There's not

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Speaker 1: a hate button is there on Twitter? There's I think

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Speaker 1: there's enough hate on Twitter already. I don't think you

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Speaker 1: need the extra buttons there. But yes, today we'll be

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Speaker 1: talking about an article that came out in several outlets.

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Speaker 1: For example, in New Scientists magazine, there was a headline

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Speaker 1: we may have spotted a parallel universe going backwards in time. Boom, Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's a lot of um, that's a lot of words

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Speaker 1: in one sentence that makes you think, what, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, whow apparel universe could exist? What it goes

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Speaker 1: backwards in time backwards? And what we spotted it? Oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, there's so much there, right, It's incredible. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the Daily Star, the newspaper, says, a parallel universe

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Speaker 1: right next to ours where all the rules of physics

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Speaker 1: seemed to be operating in reverse, and now it's next

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Speaker 1: to us, apparently right next to ours. It could be

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Speaker 1: like in your pocket or you know, sitting at that

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Speaker 1: next table in the cafe or something. It's adjacent, it's nearby,

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Speaker 1: it's im right beyond your reach. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: what happened on the internet that day, but this just

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Speaker 1: really took off. It got zillions of likes, It was

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Speaker 1: retweeted by everybody, and then newspaper after newspaper reported this claim,

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Speaker 1: and so it's spread everywhere and a lot of people

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Speaker 1: heard about it. Yeah, and so a lot of readers

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Speaker 1: asked us to break this down. And so today on

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Speaker 1: the podcast, we'll be asking the question, didn't NASA discover

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Speaker 1: a parallel universe? Maybe in a parallel universe they did.

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Speaker 1: Maybe a parallel universe discovered us. Maybe, yeah, there you go.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we're the evil twins. Daniel, how's your gotee growing up?

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Speaker 1: I guess it's sort of like alien question, like would

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Speaker 1: you rather a parallel universe discover us, which means they're

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Speaker 1: probably better at science than we are, or that we

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Speaker 1: discover them? What do you think you're the one trying

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Speaker 1: to discover these parallel universes? Well, I love they discovered

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Speaker 1: us because we're not capable of discovering them. On the

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Speaker 1: other hand, the people getting discovered don't usually fare very

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Speaker 1: well in these scenarios, So I'd love to be discovered

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Speaker 1: by an intelligent, benevolent parallel universe. You'd rather be the

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Speaker 1: conquist the physicist than the confiscated. No, I do not

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Speaker 1: want to be officially aligned with conquistadors on this program. No,

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Speaker 1: thank you. Well, So a lot of people wrote to

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Speaker 1: us asking us to break this down and talk about

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Speaker 1: it and see what's real and not real about it.

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Speaker 1: So before we dug into it, I went out into

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Speaker 1: the Internet and asked random people if they had heard

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Speaker 1: about this article and what they thought about it. So,

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Speaker 1: before you listen, to these answers. Think about it for

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Speaker 1: a second. Have you heard of NASA discovering a parallel universe?

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Speaker 1: Here's what people had to say. I have been stuck

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Speaker 1: inside due to the coronavirus, so I have been reading

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Speaker 1: that much news. Um So, honestly, I don't know the

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Speaker 1: answer to that one. I have not heard if if

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Speaker 1: they did, that would be amazing. I'm going to say

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Speaker 1: no because I think this would be all over the

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Speaker 1: news if it happened. And I also don't think we

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Speaker 1: have any way to probe another universe. I have no idea.

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Speaker 1: What that's a reference to you? I have no idea.

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Speaker 1: I sort of doubt it. I have not heard that. Well, no,

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Speaker 1: how would you discover a parallel universe? I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: I really I really don't think they did, But I'd

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Speaker 1: like I hope that they did, because I would really

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Speaker 1: love it. From my understanding of multiverse theories, there's nothing

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Speaker 1: preventing there from being other universes. It might even be probable. However,

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Speaker 1: we don't have a way currently to do an experiment

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Speaker 1: to prove it. All right, it seems that not a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are on Twitter. Maybe a lot of

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Speaker 1: these people were not on Twitter or the Internet, or

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Speaker 1: maybe our listeners just read better sources of science news

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Speaker 1: than the New Scientists and the Daily Star. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: aren't those like the tabloids of science writing. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've talked about the New Scientists in the past. They

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Speaker 1: have an article promoting the e M Drive the Impossible Drive,

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Speaker 1: which also in that case hyped up the claims of

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Speaker 1: some scientists associated with NASA, and I think probably created

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Speaker 1: a lot of misunderstanding. So we've been a little harder

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Speaker 1: than in the past. They have some great articles. We've

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Speaker 1: even been to their show. Remember we did n S

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Speaker 1: Live in the UK a couple of years ago. They

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Speaker 1: did a lot of great work promoting science, but sometimes

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Speaker 1: you know, they need to rein it in. Well. So

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Speaker 1: there's this apparently this experiment that is organized and run

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Speaker 1: by NASA that apparently did this. There were some interesting things,

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Speaker 1: or at least saw some promising things that are related

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Speaker 1: to neutrinos. That's right. There really is a super fascinating

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Speaker 1: discovery by an experiment on the South Pole that we

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Speaker 1: cannot currently explain. And so that's a wonderful opportunity in

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Speaker 1: physics to learn something new, and it makes some big discovery,

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Speaker 1: and so it's totally worth digging into and understanding how

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Speaker 1: it works, what they saw, and what it really could

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Speaker 1: mean for physics, whether or not you believe in parallel universes.

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Speaker 1: All right, so let's break it down, Daniel. So this

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Speaker 1: is a real experiment that's happening in the South Pole

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Speaker 1: in an Antarctica, and it's called ANITA, or at least

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Speaker 1: the acronym for it is ANITA. Yeah, it's called ANITA.

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Speaker 1: And the awesome thing is that it's not actually happening

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Speaker 1: in the South Pole, is happening above the South Pole.

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Speaker 1: It's a balloon experiment. What you can't be above the

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Speaker 1: South Pole, you can only be below the South Pole, Daniel. Okay,

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Speaker 1: right right, that's your Northern hemisphere biased speaking right there. Man.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm an upright ist. Yeah. But what does it

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Speaker 1: stand for? ANITA A N I T A. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: guess amazing neutrino interferometer trans supporting anions. That's not terrible.

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Speaker 1: Actually it stands for Antarctic impulsive transient antend. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: did they really cheat on the acronym And the end

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Speaker 1: is actually part of Antarctic. I would have gone for

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Speaker 1: Aida too. That's a pretty good name. That sounds like

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Speaker 1: an opera. Yeah, well this is sort of a science

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Speaker 1: opera here going on here because they did discover something

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Speaker 1: because they were looking for neutrinos. Yeah, and it's an

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Speaker 1: amazing experiment because it hovers above the South Pole's not

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Speaker 1: something they built like in a facility at the South Pole.

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Speaker 1: It flies on a balloon like forty kilometers above the

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Speaker 1: South Pole. Like imagine you're a graduate student. You developed

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Speaker 1: this complicated, expensive, delicate piece of electronics and then you

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Speaker 1: attach it to a balloon and just send it up

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Speaker 1: into the sky. Well again, I should correct, it's floating

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Speaker 1: below a southpool. Thank you for keeping me honest. I

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Speaker 1: really appreciate the fact checking me straight here. And and

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Speaker 1: also science on a balloon, I mean, how fun is that?

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Speaker 1: It's pretty cool. Yeah, but you know, if you're a

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Speaker 1: graduate student and you spend years building this thing and

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Speaker 1: then it just crashes, like you're out of luck. So

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Speaker 1: it's pretty risky. But it's an awesome experiment. And this

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Speaker 1: is an experiment that's trying to understand one of the

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Speaker 1: big mysteries of astro particle physics, which is basically like

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Speaker 1: who is shooting crazy high energy particles at us from space. Right.

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Speaker 1: We've covered this before in our podcast, And the Earth

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Speaker 1: is getting pelted by cosmic super high energy costmic grace

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Speaker 1: and we don't know where they're coming from. They're too

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Speaker 1: high energy to be coming from the Sun. That's right,

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Speaker 1: they're definitely not coming from the Sun. We don't see

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Speaker 1: any point source in the sky. We can look around

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Speaker 1: to see where they're coming from, and we don't see

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Speaker 1: them coming from just one spot. And they're ridiculously high energy.

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Speaker 1: Nothing we know of in the universe is capable of

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Speaker 1: making particles of this high energy, and yet we see them.

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Speaker 1: So it's all really a great opportunity to learn something new.

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Speaker 1: And the interesting thing is like where are they coming from?

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Speaker 1: And these particles can be protons, that can be iron,

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Speaker 1: nuclear actially, all sorts of crazy things. But one really

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Speaker 1: cool idea is to look for really high energy neutrinos.

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Speaker 1: There's Neutrinos are these really weird, little whispy particles that

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Speaker 1: have no electric charge and hardly interact, and they're really

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Speaker 1: good for doing this kind of physics because it means

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Speaker 1: they point right back to what made them. They don't

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Speaker 1: bend at all in magnetic fields, and so neutrinos are

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Speaker 1: part of the cosmic rays that are hitting us. It's

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Speaker 1: not just like protons and and course and stuff being

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Speaker 1: sent as is whatever it's making these is also sathing neutrinos. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's the question, is are we seeing also super high

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Speaker 1: energy neutrinos. If so, that might give us another clue

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Speaker 1: to tell us, like what could be out there creating

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Speaker 1: these things? Is there an alien particle physics factory pumping

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Speaker 1: out high energy particles? Are the only making protons? Gives

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Speaker 1: a sunburned or something? We would be their motivation? Well,

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Speaker 1: who knows what I do understand aliens? I certainly don't.

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Speaker 1: But every time you look at the sky, you want

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Speaker 1: to look at it in lots of different spectrum. You

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Speaker 1: want to see what are the X ray, what is

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Speaker 1: the visible light, what is the infrared? So this is

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Speaker 1: in the same category. It says, let's look at the

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Speaker 1: cosmic ray sky using neutrinos because they don't bend, and

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Speaker 1: it's like another way to look at But I guess

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Speaker 1: we're also getting showered by neutrinos from the sun, Like

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Speaker 1: the Sun produces a lot of neutrinos and we're getting

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Speaker 1: hit by a ton of them here. We're looking for

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Speaker 1: them coming from a different direction or something. That's right.

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Speaker 1: The Sun pumps out huge numbers of neutrinos, like you're

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Speaker 1: hit with a hundred billion neutrinos per square centimeter per

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Speaker 1: second all the time. So it's an incredible number. But

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Speaker 1: those come from the Sun, and we can tell the

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Speaker 1: direction of these particles. So we're looking like out into

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Speaker 1: space to see if they're coming from anywhere else. And

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Speaker 1: the ones from the Sun are not nearly as high

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Speaker 1: energy as the one that we're looking for. We're looking

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Speaker 1: for super duper high energy neutrinos, not just the ones

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Speaker 1: coming from the Sun. Oh I see. So that it

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Speaker 1: is that if something is making high energy particles and

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Speaker 1: shooting them at us, there maybe probably also shooting neutrinos

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Speaker 1: along the way, and if so, they would have the

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Speaker 1: same sort of high energy and also maybe would preserve

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Speaker 1: the direction. That's right, And that's the question. Whatever is

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Speaker 1: this mysterious source of cosmic rays? Is it also making

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Speaker 1: super high energy neutrinos? Let's look and and you never know. Right, Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's a big question. It is a big question. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it seems like a small question for which you would

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Speaker 1: need a lot of the quiment to measure. And you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a history of discovery there, like when people first

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Speaker 1: looked at the sky in the X ray, they found

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Speaker 1: all sorts of things that were really bright in X

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Speaker 1: rays but dark invisible light, Like the first black hole

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Speaker 1: was spotted that way. We should do a whole podcast

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Speaker 1: episode on that. So you might see in the sky

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Speaker 1: in neutrinos really bright sources that don't line up with

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Speaker 1: anything else, and that could be a clue. So like, oh,

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Speaker 1: there's a new thing in the universe. So it's always

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Speaker 1: exciting to look out in the universe using a new

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Speaker 1: set of eyeballs, all right, So then this they set

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Speaker 1: up this experiment in Antarctica that uses a balloon and

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Speaker 1: it uses the eye from Antarctica. Right, that's why you

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Speaker 1: need the balloon to sort of look at all the ice.

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Speaker 1: That's right, because neutrinos are really hard to spot, right,

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Speaker 1: They fly through a lot of material and don't interact,

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Speaker 1: and so essentially we use the whole earth and the

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Speaker 1: ice in Antarctica as our detector. And one thing that's

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Speaker 1: really important to understand is you may have heard of

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Speaker 1: neutrinos flying through like a light year of lead and

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Speaker 1: not interacting. That's true for neutrinos from the Sun at

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Speaker 1: a certain energy, but as neutrinos get the higher and

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Speaker 1: higher energy, they tend to interact more. And we can

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Speaker 1: dig into why that is a little bit later. But

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Speaker 1: what these things are looking for is neutrinos flying through

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Speaker 1: the Earth, so upwards through the Earth. I guess downwards, right,

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Speaker 1: since we're on the North Pole. I am so upside

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Speaker 1: down here. But they're they're coming from the Sun through

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Speaker 1: the Earth, and they're popping out of Antarctica. They're not

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Speaker 1: coming from the Sun. They're coming from somewhere else, somewhere

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Speaker 1: in space. They go through the Earth and they go

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Speaker 1: through the ice and Antarctica, and when they go through

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Speaker 1: the ice, which is like one or two kilometers thick,

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Speaker 1: they make a chirp in radio frequency electromagnetic waves because

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Speaker 1: they hit something and then they split up. That's right,

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Speaker 1: they hit something, they interact with the nucleus and then

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Speaker 1: it causes this cascade of electrons and positrons which make

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Speaker 1: this a little brief, essentially chirp in the radio frequency spectrum.

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Speaker 1: And the reason that ice is important is that ice

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Speaker 1: is transparent, Like if you make this chirp in the ice,

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Speaker 1: it will propagate through the ice and then you can

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Speaker 1: see it above the ice. If it makes this chirp

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Speaker 1: like in deep rock, then it just gets absorbed. So

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Speaker 1: you needed a big slab of something which will make

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Speaker 1: it chirp and also propagate those chirps. So you thought Antarctica,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of ice there, better use it before

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Speaker 1: it goes away. Yeah, exactly, Like where else can you

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Speaker 1: get a one mile thick sheet of ice. It's pretty incredible.

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Speaker 1: And so then they look for these chirps. But you know,

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Speaker 1: if you just put a detector on the surface and

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Speaker 1: look down, you can only see a tiny little bit

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Speaker 1: of ice. So the higher you are, the more ice

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Speaker 1: you can visualize. So that's why they put this thing

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Speaker 1: on a balloon and fly like forts above the ice

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Speaker 1: looking for these signals coming out of the ice from

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Speaker 1: neutrinos that are flying through the earth and coming out

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Speaker 1: through the end. Okay, so then really what's on the

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Speaker 1: balloon is just kind of a camera, So it's just

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Speaker 1: taking pictures of the ice looking for these neutrino collisions.

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Speaker 1: That's right, And it's a special kind of camera. You know,

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Speaker 1: there really are radio frequency antennas, and that's why the

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Speaker 1: experiment is called transient antenna. Transient because it's not up

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Speaker 1: there all the time, and they're looking also transient because

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Speaker 1: the signals are transient, and because they're using an antenna

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Speaker 1: as a form of a camera. You know, they have

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Speaker 1: a bunch of these antennas, so they can essentially take

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Speaker 1: a picture of the ice in this radio frequency spectrum. Cool.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well let's get a little bit into what

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Speaker 1: the experiment is actually looking for and how it's looking

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Speaker 1: for it, and whether or not they discovered a parallel universe.

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Speaker 1: But first let's take a quick break. All right, Daniel,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about whether NASA discovered a parallel universe, is

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Speaker 1: headlines recently seemed to say out loud, And so it

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Speaker 1: just has to do with the experiment called Anita. That's

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Speaker 1: a balloon floating above the Antarctic taking pictures of the

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Speaker 1: ice looking for neutrinos hi, not just neutrinos, high energy

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Speaker 1: neutrina that's right. And they've been running this thing for

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Speaker 1: almost a couple of decades now. Like they build it,

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Speaker 1: they launch it, it flies up there for like thirty

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Speaker 1: to forty days essentially until it runs out of helium

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Speaker 1: and then it comes back down. Really, it's been going

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Speaker 1: for several decades. Yeah, well they have that, you know,

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Speaker 1: they need to rebuild it every time. So they had

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Speaker 1: a run in two thousand and six, and then had

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Speaker 1: another run in two thousand nine, and they did one

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Speaker 1: in two thousand fourteen. What do you what do you

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Speaker 1: mean the balloon doesn't last? No, you can't have a

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Speaker 1: balloon up there forever. Eventually the helium leaks out and

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Speaker 1: the thing comes back down to Earth. But eventually the

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Speaker 1: balloon comes down and it runs for a long time.

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Speaker 1: It runs on solar power. That hangs up there for

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Speaker 1: like thirty or forty days collecting data. All Right, they're

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Speaker 1: up there. They're taking pictures of the ice and they're

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Speaker 1: looking for high energy neutrino collisions. So I guess, let's

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Speaker 1: maybe dig a little bit into the signs. And so,

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Speaker 1: why are neutrinos more likely to hit things if they're

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Speaker 1: going faster. It seems like it should be the opposite. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So what they're looking for a really high energy neutrinos, right,

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Speaker 1: And they saw something really weird is that they saw

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Speaker 1: neutrinos that are super duper high energy. And these are

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Speaker 1: fascinating because, as you say, they're actually more likely to

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Speaker 1: stop and being into something than slower neutrinos. And the

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Speaker 1: reason is special relativity. Like remember that when you move quickly,

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Speaker 1: things in your view tend to look shorter. Like if

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Speaker 1: you're running past your house and nearly the speed of light,

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Speaker 1: there's length contraction. Your house seems to get shorter. What wait,

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Speaker 1: so to to the neutrino, the universe sort of contracts.

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Speaker 1: Everything feels smaller, yes, or like closer. That's right, because

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Speaker 1: for very fast moving neutrino, the universe is rushing by

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Speaker 1: at a fast speed, so the universe contracts and effectively

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Speaker 1: gets denser. So it's like the neutrino sees more of

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Speaker 1: the universe or more of the material it's passing through

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Speaker 1: at any given moment, which means it has like more

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Speaker 1: chances to interact with some Oh man, that makes no sense,

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Speaker 1: Daniel to us. Then neutrino, it's just moving fast, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like it's not actually going through

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Speaker 1: more stuff, that's right, But we're talking about the range

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Speaker 1: of its potential interaction. Remember going through stuff and banging

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Speaker 1: into it. Really, we're not talking about like physically stuff

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Speaker 1: connecting and hitting. We're talking about things interacting. It's all

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Speaker 1: about the power of your forces. Are you being influenced

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Speaker 1: by the gravity of the Sun. Yes. Are you being

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Speaker 1: influenced by the gravity of Alpha Centauri? Probably not a

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Speaker 1: little bit. But if you were moving really really fast,

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Speaker 1: then you would be influenced by things even further away

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Speaker 1: because it would be effectively contracted to be closer to you.

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Speaker 1: What if I was moving to or it's the Sun,

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Speaker 1: I would feel it's gravity more. Yes, absolutely, because space

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Speaker 1: would be contracted between you and the Sun. All right,

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't recommend it. I kind of have

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Speaker 1: to take your word for a Daniel. It seems kind

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Speaker 1: of bonkers, But you're it's going really fast, so it

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Speaker 1: seemed more of the universe. The universe seems denser, and

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Speaker 1: so it's interacting more. It's more likely to interact, that's right.

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Speaker 1: And so a slow moving neutrino like when that comes

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Speaker 1: from the Sun will pass through the Earth and have

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Speaker 1: almost no chance of interacting. But a faster moving neutrino,

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Speaker 1: like a really really high energy neutrino, is very unlikely

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Speaker 1: to make it all the way through the Earth. So

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Speaker 1: if neutrino comes to the Earth and hits the North Pole,

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Speaker 1: then start traveling through the very very high energies, it's

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Speaker 1: unlikely to make it all the way through. It's going

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Speaker 1: to bang into something and the core of the Earth

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Speaker 1: and get absorbed and stop. Most of them will probably

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Speaker 1: get absorbed by the Earth, but some of them will

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Speaker 1: make it through and hit the ice in Antarctica. That's right.

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Speaker 1: And so what this experiment was designed to look for

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Speaker 1: is actually not neutrino is going all the way through

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Speaker 1: the Earth, but just sort of skimming it a little bit.

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Speaker 1: They knew that they couldn't see neutrinos a very high

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Speaker 1: energy to go all the way through the Earth because

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Speaker 1: they shouldn't make it through the Earth. So they're expecting

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Speaker 1: to sort of skim the horizon and see neutrinos that

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Speaker 1: just sort of like dip into the Earth a little

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Speaker 1: bit and then come up through the ice. That was

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Speaker 1: their goal. Oh, that just kind of hit the edge

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Speaker 1: of the Earth at the north pole. Yeah, precisely at

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Speaker 1: the South pole, and that makes the ice, I mean thicker, right,

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Speaker 1: because it's like if you hit the sheet of ice sideways,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a lot thicker, you've got a longer view

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Speaker 1: of the ice. So they were that's what they were

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Speaker 1: expecting to see. That's what they were hoping to see.

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Speaker 1: That's what they were designed to see. And weirdly, they

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Speaker 1: don't see any of those. Like they've been running for

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Speaker 1: a long time, they've never seen a single high energy

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Speaker 1: neutrino passing near the horizon. They're like just coming up

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00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: through the Earth in the way they would expect to

427
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 1: see them if there were these very high energy neutrinos

428
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 1: flying through space. Right, So I'm trying to picture it.

429
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 1: The ne trino's coming kind of at an angle. It's

430
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 1: skimming the Earth. It hits the ice, it cream makes

431
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 1: an interaction and it's braced some other stuff in all directions,

432
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: make an interaction, and its sprays radio frequency light. Essentially,

433
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: the sprays a little burst of radio frequency noise out

434
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: through the ice, which is then picked up in the

435
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,360
Speaker 1: air by the ANITA antenna like it creates photons. Yeah,

436
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: radio waves are photons, that's right, and then it explodes

437
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 1: like it they come off in all directions. Now, because

438
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: the neutrino is moving really fast, it's actually collimated, so

439
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 1: it's a very narrow tube. And so you can tell

440
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 1: the direction of the neutrino by seeing where this arrived

441
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: and exactly when. And Anita has like lots of different antennas,

442
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: and so by the different arrival times on different parts

443
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 1: of Anita, they can tell the direction that this pulse

444
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 1: of radio waves from the neutrino came from. Okay, so

445
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: then that's how you would see them, But they didn't

446
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 1: see them for years and years and years. Yeah, that's right.

447
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: They look at the horizon, they look for these neutrinos

448
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 1: skimming the horizon, and they see nothing, not a zilch

449
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: in all of their runs. But they did see something

450
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 1: really weird that they didn't expect to see. Okay, recently

451
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: or was this a way back in its early runs,

452
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: So in two thousand and six and then again in

453
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: two thousand fourteen, so now twice in the total runs

454
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 1: of this experiment, they saw neutrinos or what looks like

455
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: neutrinos coming straight up through the Earth. So something that

456
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,239
Speaker 1: shouldn't happen, because neutrinos shouldn't make it all the way

457
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 1: through the Earth. But they see these pulses that look

458
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: like very very fast moving neutrino, ridiculously high energy neutrino,

459
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: but coming straight up out of the ice. Wow, So

460
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: it's sort of coming from the Earth or through the Earth. Well,

461
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: we don't know, right if it's a neutrino, it's hard

462
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: to understand how it could be coming through the Earth, right, Like,

463
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 1: because neutrinos at that high energy, and we're talking about

464
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 1: energies much much higher than like the particles at the

465
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 1: Large Hadron Collider, right We're talking about seventy or a

466
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: hundred thousand times more energy. These are really really high

467
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 1: energy particles. But they shouldn't make it through the Earth.

468
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 1: So maybe they're created inside the Earth, or maybe there's

469
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: something else, some other weird kind of particle that turns

470
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 1: into neutrinos. And we can dig into all of that.

471
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: But I guess maybe couldn't it just be a neutrino

472
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: that got lucky, you know, Like, couldn't it just be

473
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: um one that did somehow make it through the Earth. Yeah,

474
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: it could certainly be. Like one explanation is there's some

475
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 1: source of very high energy new trinos and it's shooting

476
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: it right in that direction, and you have a lot

477
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 1: of them, and so even if the chances are low,

478
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: maybe one of them leaked through or two of them

479
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: leaked through and then hit the ice right and then

480
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: hit the ice. And so we have other detectors out

481
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,959
Speaker 1: the South Pole that do similar things, like this one

482
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: called ice cube, which actually seriously like the wrapper, did

483
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: he sign off on this um? I have not been

484
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 1: in touch with these people, but ice cube, I think

485
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: it's a general phrase. And they've drilled into the ice

486
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: and they dropped cameras into the ice. They've like instrumented

487
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: the ice itself to look for particles coming through the ice.

488
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: So they have sort of similar capabilities, and they didn't

489
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 1: see these things. So you would expect if there was

490
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: like a really high energy source of neutrinos pointed at

491
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: the Earth that happened to be going all the way through,

492
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 1: that this other experiment, ice Cube, would have seen them.

493
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: But it doesn't really. I mean, I mean two over

494
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: like twenty years, it seems like these are pretty rare,

495
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: So it could still it could maybe still be that

496
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: it's just super rare. The other ones that haven't seen it,

497
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: it could still be. I mean, cosmic ray physics is

498
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: all about small numbers, like These things are very rare

499
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 1: and very weird, but that's what makes them fascinating. And

500
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: if you've only ever seen one, you'd be pretty skeptical.

501
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: But seeing two man that tells you this something real there.

502
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: You know, it's like seeing two big Foot or big feet.

503
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 1: I guess that's you believe it a lot more easily

504
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: than just seeing one. All right, it's like two people.

505
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: It's like seeing Bigfoot twice, like taking two photographs of

506
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: her over like twenty years. Yeah, except you know, you

507
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: were out there looking for something else. You were trying

508
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: to take pictures of chimpanzees, and you saw Bigfoot twice,

509
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: so you're like, what what's going on here? Isn't even

510
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 1: what could be something? All right? Well, that's what they found.

511
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: They found these two. So it's just two nutrinos that

512
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: they found. It's just these two chirps from the ice

513
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: that they think are neutrinos. They look like neutrinos and

514
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: they're coming up straight up from the ice. And that's

515
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 1: the data. That's what they've seen, and they can't explain

516
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,239
Speaker 1: it using current physics. Captured by a balloon, captured by

517
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: a balloon. That's that seems like the was a bonkers

518
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: part of it. It's sort of Victorian, right. I imagine,

519
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 1: like you know, steam pumping and mechanical knobs and valves

520
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: and stuff. Some woman with a big hat and a

521
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: guy with a big mustache up there taking nutrito measurements.

522
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: Hope they packed a picnic. Yeah, all right, Well, let's

523
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: get into whether or not they actually discovered a parallel

524
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: universe and what makes them think that they did. But

525
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: first let's take at another quick break. All right, dinnel,

526
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: we're talking about the Anita experiment, which found two over

527
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: twenty years, they found two neutrinos, and so help me

528
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: make the connection here. How do these two neutrinos tell

529
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 1: me there's a whole parallel universe out there? All right, Well,

530
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: it's a very long walk from two neutrinos to there's

531
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: a parallel universe right next to you. All right, yeah,

532
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: I know. So how much time do we have? Ten minutes? Alright? Go,

533
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: it's complicated. But the short version of it is, if

534
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 1: there's a parallel universe, then there might be some heavy

535
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: kind of neutrino gathered collected in the center of the Earth,

536
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: which is decaying and producing these neutrinos and shooting them

537
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: out from the center of the Earth. What that's the

538
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: short version. Wait, there's what's at the center of Neutrinos

539
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: are hanging out in the center of the Earth. Yeah.

540
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: The idea is we have neutrinos, and there's lots of

541
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: mysteries about neutrinos, like we don't know if neutrinos have

542
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: their own antiparticle, if there are other really heavy neutrinos

543
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: we've never seen before. And we had a whole episode

544
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: about that kind of mystery. And they're connected to other

545
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: really deep mysteries in physics, like why do we have

546
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: matter and not antimatter? Why does time flow forward and

547
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: not backwards? You know, every time in physics we see

548
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: something which isn't balanced, which is in symmetric, we ask why,

549
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: you know, the way we blame Adrina, it seems like, well,

550
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: it's just so easy, you know, They're just so easy

551
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: to blame. They're so neutral, They're they're being sneaky about something.

552
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: You those neutrinos are hiding something. I can smell it.

553
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: Never trust someone without an opinion, Isn't that what I

554
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: just said? But you know, it's like wondering, why are

555
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: humans more right handed than left handed. There's something going

556
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: on there. There's a clue to brain physiology or something.

557
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: So we wonder why is there more matter? Why is

558
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: time flow forwards? And one simple way to sort of

559
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: get rid of that question is to say, well, maybe

560
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: it's not actually in asymmetry. Maybe there's another universe where

561
00:29:55,480 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: time flows backwards and it's filled with anti partic like

562
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: somehow we started together but then we got split off. Yeah,

563
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: at the Big Bang two universes were created, one made

564
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: of matter where time flows forwards, and one made of

565
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 1: antimatter where time flows back. Why but then but um,

566
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: and we're right on top of each other and right

567
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: next to each other. No neither. I mean that doesn't

568
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: really make any sense. It's like, you know, time is

569
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,719
Speaker 1: flowing backwards, it's a different part of space. I mean,

570
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: it's parallel in a sense that it's like not here,

571
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: it's not there, it's not right next to you, it's

572
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: not anywhere in our space. It's like where is yesterday?

573
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's not to my left or to

574
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: my right. You know, it's backwards and behind me. It's

575
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: behind me, just like the south pole is belowing. But

576
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: if time is flowing backwards and to be ahead of you. Right,

577
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: So this is like the South Pole universe. It started

578
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: at the Big Bang going the other way and is

579
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: dominated by antimatter. Okay, so wait, So the theory is

580
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: then that these two neutrinos came from this other universe.

581
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: That's the idea is if there's this parallel universe, that

582
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: means that there's a symmetry to the universe that you know,

583
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: matter has antimatter, and that suggests that there are other

584
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: kinds of neutrinos in our universe, that the neutrino has

585
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: some really heavy partner because they make the other universe work.

586
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: You need these heavy neutrinos in our universe. That's what

587
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: the equations would suggest. Like if you invert the equations,

588
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: then you get a heavy neutrina. That's right, because there

589
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: has to be some other neutrino for that universe to have,

590
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: and so it has to be possible in our universe.

591
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: Just like our universe is mostly matter, not antimatter, the

592
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: other one is mostly antimatter, but we can still have

593
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: antimatter in our universe, and so their version of neutrinos

594
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: could also exist in our universe, and those neutrinos would

595
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: be super duper heavy. They'd be like really really massive,

596
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: unlike our neutrinos talking about well, you know, we talked

597
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: about this on that episode, Like these neutrinos could be

598
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: ridiculously massive, like thousands or millions of times heavier than

599
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: anything we've seen, or even more, you know, up to

600
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: like you can have a single particle has like the

601
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: mass of a whole city. These things could we what

602
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: could be really really heavy just in its resting match,

603
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: just in its resting mass. Yeah, because remember a particles mass,

604
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: it's not like how much stuff is there in it.

605
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: It's just some weird interaction with the Higgs field. And

606
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: so in a sense, it could be anything. We have

607
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: no clue why particles have this mass or that mass

608
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: or the other mass. It's all a mystery. So you

609
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: can set them to be anything. There's very few rules.

610
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: So this parallel universe that we're imagining, it's just kind

611
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: of the same, but it has a different preference, right, Yeah,

612
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: when the universe started, it's not like the universe decided

613
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to have matter instead of antimatter. It did both.

614
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: It's like we'll do matter and we'll do antimatter. We'll

615
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: cover both of our basics. We have two verses, Yeah,

616
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: we are in this. Why why buy one when you

617
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: can buy two for the same physics, That's right. You know,

618
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: if you're going to go universe shopping, go to costco

619
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: r Yeah, yeah, you save shipping. Well, we just said

620
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: that in parallel Dannie. So if there's a parallel universe,

621
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: then it suggests the existence of these really heavy neutrinos.

622
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: And they could be the dark mouth like they could

623
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: be Yeah, there's a lot of steps here. They could

624
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: be the dark mount And if so, then they're really heavy.

625
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: They interact gravitationally. They could be collecting at the center

626
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: of the Earth like like the Sun, Like they're hanging

627
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: out at the center of the Earth. They're coming along

628
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: with us as we go around the Sun. Yeah, because

629
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: that's where things do gravitationally, is they clump together, and

630
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: the Earth is a big gravitational blob, and these neutrinos

631
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: don't feel the Earth in any way. They just sort

632
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: of passed through. The only thing they feel is it's gravity.

633
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: And so the Sun and also the Earth and all

634
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: the other planets might have collected these very heavy dark

635
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: matter neutrinos at the center. Wait, you just called it

636
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: in the same name. They're dark matter neutrinos, meaning neutrinos

637
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: that maybe explain dark matter. Yes, because we know that

638
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: there's a lot of missing stuff in the universe. We

639
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: know there's a lot of mass out there we cannot see.

640
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: We don't know what it is. We're looking for it.

641
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,239
Speaker 1: We think maybe it's this, maybe it's that, Maybe it's

642
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: primordial black holes. One idea is maybe it's some weird,

643
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: new kind of very heavy neutrino we've never seen. And

644
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: these neutrinos are pretty suspicious. There's a lot of ifs here, right,

645
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: if there's a parallel universe. They are explaining matter and

646
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: antimatter time and also dark matter. Are they also involved

647
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: in dark energy? They kill JFK, that's what I think.

648
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: And the dinosaurs. Dinosaurs anyway, these things hanging out this

649
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:26,919
Speaker 1: end of the Earth, they have a lot of energy,

650
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: have a lot of mass just sort of stored up

651
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: inside them. They're like very tightly coiled springs. So what

652
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: happens when they decay, Like some particles, they eventually decay.

653
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: Very heavy particles often decay. They can decay into normal neutrinos,

654
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: But normal lutrinos have very low mass, and so they

655
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: would have to decay into very high energy, very fast

656
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: moving neutrinos. So the mass of these mysterious dark matter

657
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: neutrinos gets turned into the energy, the kinetic energy the

658
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 1: motion of these very light normal neutrinos. Well, okay, I

659
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: guess maybe first of all these neutrinos, why don't they

660
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: decay more? I thought the universe didn't like like big

661
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: massive things hanging out. Yeah, that's a great question. The

662
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: universe doesn't like big massive things hanging out. But big

663
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 1: massive things hanging out can only turn into lighter things

664
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 1: if they have a way to do it, if there's

665
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: some interaction, some process. They use a photon to use

666
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 1: a w or z so you can keep something that's

667
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 1: very heavy, you can keep it stable if you turn

668
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: off all of its ways of decaying. So we don't

669
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: know anything about these things. They could have like a

670
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: very hard time decaying into these neutrinos, But also we

671
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: don't know, like it could be that it happens all

672
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: the time. There just aren't that many of them in

673
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: the center of the Earth mat Maybe there's only forty

674
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: of them and the decay once a year, And can

675
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: the universe be making these or can these only be

676
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: made in the big band universe? Probably wouldn't be making

677
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 1: these anymore. They would be primordial. They would have been

678
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: made in the early universe and then still existing. So

679
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: that means that if it is dark matter, then that

680
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 1: means the dark matter would be disappearing. Yes, dark matter

681
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 1: would be disappearing, but very slowly. Right like we know matter,

682
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: if it exists, is cosmologically stable, like it was made

683
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: very early on in the universe, and not much of

684
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: it or if any has disappeared, And so these neutrinos,

685
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: if they do decay, it can't happen very often. So actually,

686
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: if we saw two of them in the last twenty years,

687
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: that suggests there must be a lot of them if

688
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 1: they exist in the center of the Earth, I see,

689
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: all right, So then that's how you connect the thoughts,

690
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: is that we saw these two neutrino pings and we're like,

691
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 1: where they come from. They couldn't have come from anywhere

692
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: that we know of, So maybe they said they came

693
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: from the center of the Earth and they were made

694
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: by these two heavy neutrinos that are hanging out there,

695
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: that's right, And if those two heavy neutrinos do exist,

696
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: there are a clue that maybe the universe has this

697
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: symmetry after all, that maybe there is another universe out

698
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: there that started the Big Bang going the other way.

699
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: But you know that's also a reach. Yeah. I'm having

700
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: trouble with that one because it just means that these

701
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: having neutrinos exist. It's like saying that because we can

702
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: see antimatter, that means there's another universe. But that's not

703
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: really the case, is it right? You cannot conclude that

704
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: there's a parallel universe, even if you proved that there

705
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: are super heavy neutrinos at the center of the Earth

706
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: decaying into normal neutrinos, because there are other explanations that

707
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: are not as bonkers and crazy. Is a parallel universe

708
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: I see, So that the parallel universe is just one

709
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: maybe possible explanation for why our universe has the light

710
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: neutrinos and not the heavy neutrinos. But we do have

711
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 1: the haaving neutrinos, So I guess I'm complu we have

712
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: the light neutrinos, we don't know if we have the

713
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: heavy neutrinos in our universe. Like, that's one idea it

714
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 1: could be, and one reason to explain it is like

715
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: maybe there's a parallel universe and that requires us to

716
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: have heavy neutrinos. But there are other theories that have

717
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: heavy neutrinos in them also. I mean, what happened is

718
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: Anita saw these weird neutrinos. A bunch of very well

719
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: meaning theorists who've been working on this idea of a

720
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: parallel universe said, hey, wait a second, I like that

721
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 1: that could be explained by our theory. Here's a fun,

722
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 1: crazy theory that could explain it that we've been working

723
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: on for ten years and involves a cool parallel universe.

724
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: They wrote this paper. Then science journalism was like, now,

725
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: so it discovered a parallel universe, and so you know,

726
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 1: they screamed like that, like like like very excited kids.

727
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. There was a lot of journalistic jumping up

728
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: and down. All right, Well, it seems like a reach.

729
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 1: It seems like you're extrapolating two signals to the whole

730
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: existence over this new particle, to the whole existence of

731
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: apparallel universe. That's right, every step there is a reach, right,

732
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: just because you see these two new particles doesn't mean

733
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 1: that there's anything new. It could be experimental error. It

734
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 1: could just be luck. Or it could be some heavy

735
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,240
Speaker 1: new particle in the center of the Earth, which could

736
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: be maybe a new trino, which could maybe potentially give

737
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: credence to this crazy, fun, silly theory about a parallel universe.

738
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: But I guess maybe why does it have to come

739
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: from the center of the Earth. Is that the only explanation? Well,

740
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: because we only see them coming up from the earth, Like,

741
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: we don't see them skimming the earth. We don't see

742
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: them coming in any other direction. We only see them

743
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: coming straight up from underground, because that's the only place

744
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: where we have the camera, isn't it. The camera can

745
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: see these things coming even straight down or sideways or

746
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: coming up from the ice and just skimming it like

747
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: just along the horizon. But they don't see anything in

748
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 1: those directions. They see only these very high energy netrinos

749
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: coming straight up from the Earth. All right, Well, what

750
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: else could they be? One thing is they could be

751
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: experimental error. I mean, the two out in twenty years

752
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 1: does seem sort of like a blip. Yeah, it does

753
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 1: seem like a blip. And so you have to ask, like, well,

754
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: how well do we know these things? Sometimes there's something rare,

755
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 1: but when you spot it, you're pretty sure. Like if

756
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: you discover a unicorn. Yeah, they're hard to find, but

757
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: when you get one in your lab, you can pretty

758
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 1: well tell us in uniform. You seem to speak from experience.

759
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: That's my dream, you know, the one day discover unicorn.

760
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,879
Speaker 1: And so what do we actually know about these things? Really,

761
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: the measurements we have come from these antennas and they're

762
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: pretty good, but they can get spoofed. Like one scenario

763
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: is these things come from the center of the Earth.

764
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: They came from straight down, like maybe a high energy

765
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 1: neutrino came straight down and hit the ice and the

766
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: signals sort of reflected in the ice and then came

767
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,280
Speaker 1: back up and then it was captured by the balloon,

768
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: so it looked like it came out of the ice,

769
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 1: but actually the original particle was coming straight down. Oh,

770
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: so that can happen. They can bounce. That totally happens.

771
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: They can bounce, But this experiment can usually tell because

772
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: there's a polarity to this signal. The signals effectively spin

773
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: in a certain way because of the Earth's magnetic field,

774
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 1: and if they hit the ice and bounce, that polarity flips.

775
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 1: It's like when light bounces off of water, it changes

776
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 1: this polarity, and so they can see this, and so

777
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: they see this. Actually all the time, they see cosmic

778
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: rays coming from space that bounce off the ice up

779
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: to the experiment and then they remove them. But for

780
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: these two weird neutrinos, they don't see that, so it

781
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: doesn't look like they bounced, right. But you know, how

782
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: well do we really understand the details of Antarctic ice?

783
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: Could there be something weird going on? Occasionally it gets

784
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 1: double reflected or something, right, there's always a possibility. I

785
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: think they came from a parallel universe data with a

786
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: different polarity. I'll call New Scientists magazine. Okay, a parallel

787
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: universe where everybody likes bananas and DC makes better movies

788
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 1: than Mardel. Impossible. That just breaks the laws of physics.

789
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 1: Al Right, Well, um, it sounds like it's pretty tantalizing,

790
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: I guess, but it's sort of build upon two measurements,

791
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: and it's kind of extrapolating a lot from two measurements

792
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: to new particles, to the whole different universe. It's like

793
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,800
Speaker 1: a lot of ifs there and a lot of like

794
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: maybes built on top of each other, and a lot

795
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 1: of people doing very careful work, Like the experimentalists have

796
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: been building this thing and running it for twenty years,

797
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,280
Speaker 1: and their papers are totally solid. They very carefully understood

798
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: the source of these things. And in their papers, you know,

799
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: they say exactly how well they know things and how

800
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: well they don't know things. And then the theorists also

801
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: pretty well behaved. They were just like suggesting and I dea.

802
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: They're not claiming to discovery the parallel universe. They to say,

803
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: here's a possible fun explanation, and then you know, it

804
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 1: trickled out in the mainstream press and they're hitting the

805
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: parallel universe button a little too hard, all right, But um,

806
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: I guess what's interesting is that it might be possible, right,

807
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: this could be how we discovered a parallel universe. It's

808
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: definitely something interesting. At the most boring end of the spectrum,

809
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: we've learned something interesting about Antarctic ice. You know. More

810
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: interesting is like, hey, maybe there is some weird new

811
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: kind of particle, or maybe there is some new source

812
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 1: of really high energy to trinos out there we've never

813
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: seen before, or maybe it's something crazy in bonkers, right,

814
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: We can't rule out the parallel universe scenario. It is

815
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: one explanation for these particles I see. And so this

816
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: parallel universe, it is one word. Time flows backwards too,

817
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: It's not just like a copy of ours. It's also

818
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 1: running backwards. Yeah, time flows backwards and antimatter dominates, and

819
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 1: that provides a nice symmetry, you know. It's like it

820
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: answers the question of why does time flow forwards and

821
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:01,919
Speaker 1: why we have matter or not antimatter. And it doesn't

822
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 1: tell you why did the universe split, but it tells

823
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: you at least it covered both of its basis. It

824
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 1: doesn't have like a preference for forward flowing time or

825
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 1: for matter over antimatter. And that just feels somehow more natural.

826
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: Maybe twitter and that universe is like full of positivity

827
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: and well meaning people. Yeah, then maybe I prefer that universe. Yeah,

828
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: let's move to that one. I think there's a portal

829
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: at the center of the Earth. Oh, there you go.

830
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: You just gotta get past those having neutrinos and step through.

831
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: That's right. Effectively, there are bouncers to the parallel universe,

832
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: or maybe we can take a balloon or like an

833
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: anti balloon, take an anti balloon to the center of

834
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: the Earth and then you step through. Well, would you

835
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 1: call a balloon that floats below the south pole and

836
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: anti balloon anyway? Because it's going down. Oh, you're right,

837
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 1: you're right. You just turn it on me. Yeah, all right.

838
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: So I guess the very take is interesting results, solid signs,

839
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 1: interesting results. But maybe the science journalism they're got a

840
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: little too excited, a little too excited. I love the

841
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 1: enthusiasm of science journalism, but please let's keep it realistic,

842
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: all right. Well, they did say in the headline, we

843
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: may have spotted a parallel universe. They did add the

844
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: main Yeah. May it may covers everything, right, I might

845
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: have an unicorn right here next to me. I may

846
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: be totally lying to you, all right. Hopefully that covered

847
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: the questions that our readers had about these headlines, and

848
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: maybe I got you to think a little bit about

849
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Speaker 1: what could be out there and not out there. And

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Speaker 1: if you see something in the science headlines that you

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Speaker 1: don't understand and you'd like to hear about, please send

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Speaker 1: it to us. Two questions at Daniel and Jorge dot Com.

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Speaker 1: We'll break it down for you. Thanks for joining us,

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Speaker 1: see you next time. Thanks for listening, and remember that

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Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of

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Speaker 1: by Heart Radio. For more podcast from my heart Radio,

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Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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