Speaker 1: From Mahard where Innovation, Money and Power Collie in Silicon
Speaker 1: Vallet NBN.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Loved Love.
Speaker 3: Live from New York and San Francisco.
Speaker 4: This is Bloomberg Technology coming up short seller Hinduburg Research
Speaker 4: but against roadblocks based on what it calls inflated key
Speaker 4: metrics and a lack of child safety.
Speaker 5: And TikTok gets sued in California, New York and other
Speaker 5: states for deceiving users about its safety for children.
Speaker 4: Plus, we hear from JP Morgan CEO Jamie Diamond on
Speaker 4: a AI in an exclusive interview at the firm's tech
Speaker 4: Stars conference in Europe.
Speaker 3: But first we go straight.
Speaker 4: To shares of Roadblocks, which are tumbling today after short
Speaker 4: seller Hindenburg Research said it's vetting against the Gaming Plan platform,
Speaker 4: saying in its report that it has inflated key metrics
Speaker 4: and also focusing in on a lack of safety for
Speaker 4: children on the platform.
Speaker 3: We go to Bloomberg's Bailey Lipschutz for more.
Speaker 4: First, the accusations of people of key metrics, time spent engagement.
Speaker 3: What are they accusing hinden By Research, Well.
Speaker 6: That's the big thing Carol is that this is a
Speaker 6: new take from the short seller Nate Anderson Hindenberg targeting
Speaker 6: that they are inflating or, according to Hindenberg, are inflating
Speaker 6: some of those metrics to appease investors. We've seen long
Speaker 6: discuss the issues potentially with the platform and child safety.
Speaker 6: Bloomberg had a terrific big take in the summer titled
Speaker 6: Roadblocks Pedophile Problem. So that has been a well discussed aspect.
Speaker 6: But those kind of allegations from Hindenburg that they have
Speaker 6: been inflating some of those metrics. Again, the company says
Speaker 6: that they reject those deemed in the report.
Speaker 7: But that's what's new.
Speaker 6: Is that the company could at least again if you
Speaker 6: take Hindenburger face value they're betting against, the company could
Speaker 6: be boosting some of those numbers to lay any investor
Speaker 6: concerns that maybe they don't have the reach or the
Speaker 6: engagement that Wall Street is looking for.
Speaker 5: Bailey, let's go to Roadblocks's response in full in New York.
Speaker 8: Let's bring it up on the screen.
Speaker 5: We totally reject the claims made in the report. The
Speaker 5: financial claims made by Hindenburg Research are simply misleading. The
Speaker 5: authors are emittedly short sellers and have an angender irrespective
Speaker 5: of the substance of Roadblocks's business model and results.
Speaker 8: And what they go on.
Speaker 5: To say is kind of a pushback against the thesis
Speaker 5: at the center of Hindenburg's research, which is because this
Speaker 5: is a company which Hindenburg claims isn't profitable, that the
Speaker 5: claim is they're misleading investors because they rely on a
Speaker 5: daily active user number and a people number that are
Speaker 5: the same. And if you read the footnotes of the disclosures,
Speaker 5: the footnotes read you shouldn't rely on the daily active
Speaker 5: user number because it could include box or it could
Speaker 5: include alt accounts. In other words, one user holds multiple accounts.
Speaker 5: It's a hard one to follow, but just go over
Speaker 5: the back and forth between the two parties.
Speaker 6: Bailey, No, to your point, edit, when you look at
Speaker 6: how Roadblocks or really any other media or video gaming
Speaker 6: platform is valued, whether you want to point to is
Speaker 6: the company did the amount of cash receipts or their
Speaker 6: bookings growth. That is bullish for the company in their view.
Speaker 6: But to your point, what Hindenburg has laid out looking
Speaker 6: at those metrics, they're looking at profitability at a string
Speaker 6: of unprofitable quarters, you really have to take it into consideration. Again,
Speaker 6: Hindenburg is betting against the company. The company is down
Speaker 6: seventy percent from its all time high back in twenty
Speaker 6: twenty one. It has been on a string of losing
Speaker 6: kind of down days, down about thirteen fourteen percent from
Speaker 6: a September high. So it really depends how you want
Speaker 6: to valuate.
Speaker 7: You can point through any.
Speaker 6: Short seller report really and say that they're cherry picking data,
Speaker 6: which seems to be kind of what Roadblocks is doing here.
Speaker 7: But also on the flip.
Speaker 6: Side, if you're an investor who's long the stock, you
Speaker 6: need to understand and kind of wrap your mind around
Speaker 6: the totality of that data.
Speaker 8: But that also could just be.
Speaker 6: Why we're seeing Roadblocks down four percent, kind of pairing
Speaker 6: back some of those losses.
Speaker 7: I do just want to call out that we're at.
Speaker 6: About nine times what is normal in terms of trading volume,
Speaker 6: more than seventeen million shares already changing hands in the
Speaker 6: first hour and a half of today, which really is
Speaker 6: more than we would normally see in an entire session.
Speaker 4: We have Roblocks's response, and of course they've long been
Speaker 4: trying to show off ways in which they're trying to
Speaker 4: take on the safety concerns as well.
Speaker 3: I'm interested in that this isn't the only.
Speaker 4: Voice of a bearish nature though, And we've heard from
Speaker 4: Edwin Dorsey, for example, who writes multiple bearish cases, and
Speaker 4: actually he doesn't take any.
Speaker 3: Bets on the stock.
Speaker 4: He just outlines why he's perhaps concerned about particular companies.
Speaker 4: So is this a mounting view of concerns around numbers
Speaker 4: or is this the first.
Speaker 6: Time I think when it as it relates directly to
Speaker 6: the user metrics, again, that is new. Is from my understanding,
Speaker 6: that is not what Edwin Dorsey has targeted. That is
Speaker 6: not what Bloomberg and other outlets have reported primarily around
Speaker 6: child safety potentially putting profits over people. But these allegations
Speaker 6: in terms of potentially inflating numbers, to my knowledge, is
Speaker 6: new and I have read and read, as I'm sure
Speaker 6: a number of viewers do have read a lot of
Speaker 6: what Edwin Dorsey and Barcave put out. And again they've
Speaker 6: been publishing on this company for quite some time. In
Speaker 6: their most recent report was just earlier this week, kind
Speaker 6: of incorporating some of their metrics and their latest report
Speaker 6: from last week. But that really from the Bearcape perspective.
Speaker 6: For the most part, at least what I've read, focuses
Speaker 6: more on child safety profits and some of the or
Speaker 6: lack of safeguards.
Speaker 7: That is right.
Speaker 5: They are different vcs in that respect, and we made
Speaker 5: every effort to invite Hindenberg and Nate Anderson on this program,
Speaker 5: and we've made every effort to invite roadblocks onto Bloombo's
Speaker 5: Baya Lipshaltz. Thank you very much. Another breaking news story
Speaker 5: this morning. TikTok was sued by California, New York and
Speaker 5: a dozen other states Tuesday for allegedly deceiving users about
Speaker 5: its safety for children and using harmful and addictive features
Speaker 5: to keep children on the platform for longer to maximize profits.
Speaker 5: TikTok has not responded to a request for comment. Bluebags
Speaker 5: Mike Shepherd joins us out of DC. Just explain the
Speaker 5: basics of the action taken by these states, the mechanism
Speaker 5: by how they took it, and what the claim is.
Speaker 9: Well, the states have worked together in this claim against TikTok,
Speaker 9: as you described, going after the company over what the
Speaker 9: state Attorney's General call harmful behavior to the public. In
Speaker 9: other words, baking in harmful and addictive features into the algorithm,
Speaker 9: into the software, into this platform that children are using,
Speaker 9: so that they are hooked, so that it keeps them
Speaker 9: on as repeat customers, so that they stay on the
Speaker 9: platform longer. This includes things like endless scrolling. It also
Speaker 9: includes features like beauty filters and comments and likes that
Speaker 9: can also harm children's self esteem. All of this, they
Speaker 9: are saying, is causing a public health crisis among young people,
Speaker 9: and they are taking steps to try to address it.
Speaker 4: There's not the only lawsuit, of course, There's been a barrage.
Speaker 4: There was a federal lawsuit just in August claiming TikTok
Speaker 4: allowed children to open accounts and gathered information about them when.
Speaker 3: They shouldn't have been.
Speaker 4: What's interesting is TikTok, like Meta, like many other companies
Speaker 4: when it comes to social media and children, and in
Speaker 4: putting in place what.
Speaker 3: They say are safeguards.
Speaker 4: You've got all accounts for teens under eighteen starting out
Speaker 4: as private, they say, and a screen limit of some
Speaker 4: sixty minutes. What's interesting in this case is that the
Speaker 4: attorneys general take issue with those sorts of safety precautions,
Speaker 4: saying they're not really real.
Speaker 9: Well, that's right, and in fact, in the case that
Speaker 9: you mentioned, I'm so glad you brought it up, Carol.
Speaker 9: In August, the Federal Trade Commission sued the company for
Speaker 9: failing to abide by the terms of a twenty nineteen
Speaker 9: settlement over child privacy. In both of these cases, what
Speaker 9: the federal government and then the state attorney's general are
Speaker 9: alleging is that these measures have not been enough, and
Speaker 9: in fact, in the case brought u by California today
Speaker 9: in the other states, they are saying that children's private
Speaker 9: data was being exploited without parental consent or notice, and
Speaker 9: that is just a fundamental, in their view, violation of
Speaker 9: that relationship with children under the age of thirteen.
Speaker 3: Mike Shepard, We appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 4: Now let's turn our attention to South Korean tech giant Samsung,
Speaker 4: issuing a rare apology to investors after it posted disappointing results,
Speaker 4: admitting that it's grappling with a potential crisis after losing
Speaker 4: its way. The newly appointed head of Samsung's core chip
Speaker 4: business has promised to overhaul the organization and began laying
Speaker 4: off workers last week in Southeast Asia, Australia and New Zealand.
Speaker 4: As part of a plan to reduce global headcount ed.
Speaker 5: Okay, Coming up on Bloomberg Technology, Rivian hits a snag
Speaker 5: in its supply chain, throwing a wrench in twenty twenty
Speaker 5: four production targets. One of the stories will bring you
Speaker 5: later in the hour. Take a look at shares Nvidia.
Speaker 5: It's off its session high where it touched again of
Speaker 5: four percent, but that would make the stock trading its
Speaker 5: highest level since mid July.
Speaker 8: It's interesting they're holding.
Speaker 5: Their AI summit DC right now where they're talking up
Speaker 5: Blackwell and they're talking up about how energy efficient it is,
Speaker 5: trying to overcome concerns about power consumption in the context
Speaker 5: of GPUs that go into data centers. We continue to
Speaker 5: track in VideA for obvious reasons.
Speaker 8: Stay with us. This is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 5: Amazon is set to face an antitrust suit filed by
Speaker 5: the US Federal Trade Commission over complaints that its online
Speaker 5: marketplace practice is harmed competition. Bloomberg's lear Nyland joins US
Speaker 5: our of DC and laya, give me the basics of
Speaker 5: the complaint and the process.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 10: The FDC filed this complaint a year ago in September,
Speaker 10: alleging that Amazon has harmed merchants who use its online
Speaker 10: marketplace through a variety of tactics. Amazon of course denies
Speaker 10: the allegations and filed a request that the court throw out.
Speaker 11: The complaint at this early stage.
Speaker 10: That's pretty unusual, but Meta was successful in the first
Speaker 10: round when it did that against the FTC complaint, or
Speaker 10: Amazon tried as well. The judge recently released his decision
Speaker 10: and he agreed to toss out just a couple of
Speaker 10: allegations under various state law claims that Amazon's marketplace violates
Speaker 10: state consumer protection laws. But he ruled that the FTC's
Speaker 10: complaint can move forward, which is a pretty big blow
Speaker 10: to Amazon. Amazon had said made a bunch of arguments
Speaker 10: that you know, its marketplace is designed to help consumers,
Speaker 10: all of its algorithms are designed to help lower prices,
Speaker 10: and the judge just said that may be the case,
Speaker 10: but at this point in the suit, like, I can't
Speaker 10: really consider that. We have to move forward a little
Speaker 10: bit before Amazon is allowed to make those kinds of arguments.
Speaker 4: Okay, so Amaz in front and center, but so too
Speaker 4: is Alphabet at the moment in multiple ways. We're expecting
Speaker 4: yet further updates in terms of concerns around its own
Speaker 4: marketplace today, I believe.
Speaker 10: Yeah, so yesterday in the Google Place or case, this
Speaker 10: is an anti trust case that was going on out
Speaker 10: in California.
Speaker 11: Involving Epic Games.
Speaker 10: The judge in that case imposed an injunction on Google
Speaker 10: that's going to ban it from paying developers or manufacturers
Speaker 10: to make its place.
Speaker 11: Or the default one on its device.
Speaker 10: So it can no longer pay developers to exclusively launch
Speaker 10: their apps and the app store. It has to allow
Speaker 10: other companies that want to, like perhaps Amazon or Microsoft,
Speaker 10: to offer alternate app stores for Android devices. And this
Speaker 10: lasts for three years. The idea is that Google has
Speaker 10: made all of.
Speaker 11: These provisions and its rules.
Speaker 10: Related to the app store that really harmed competition found
Speaker 10: last year, and so this three year prohibition on paying
Speaker 10: developers to launch exclusively and being forced to allow other
Speaker 10: app stores is to help develop more app stores in
Speaker 10: the Android ecosystem.
Speaker 11: So Google is going to appeal.
Speaker 10: Of course, they already announced that yesterday, so this isn't
Speaker 10: going to go into effect immediately, but you know, there
Speaker 10: was an immediate impact on the stock price because you know,
Speaker 10: this is a fourteen billion dollar year business for Google,
Speaker 10: and it's going to definitely impact the amount of revenue
Speaker 10: they make each year. Separately today, sorry, carry on separately today.
Speaker 10: In the search case, this is the one that the
Speaker 10: Justice Department filed in twenty twenty. The judge ruled earlier
Speaker 10: this year that Google has an illegal monopoly in online
Speaker 10: search and online search ads, and the Justice Department is
Speaker 10: supposed to make its first proposal sometime later today about
Speaker 10: what it thinks Google should be forced to do to
Speaker 10: sort of remedy the harm caused in the online search market.
Speaker 10: You know, we had reported a couple months ago that
Speaker 10: one of the options that they might be proposing as
Speaker 10: a breakup. So this could be the first time that
Speaker 10: the federal government is looking to break up a company
Speaker 10: in decades.
Speaker 11: So we're sort of eagerly awaiting that here in.
Speaker 4: DC Search app Store and over Amazon It's marketplace.
Speaker 3: Doreys a lot on your plate, We appreciate it, Leah.
Speaker 12: Now let's just talk.
Speaker 4: About another company, Meta now, But it is actually rolling out.
Speaker 3: New AI tools to help advertisers.
Speaker 4: Create and edit videos more easily, seeking to reach Facebook
Speaker 4: Instagram users who are spending.
Speaker 3: More time watching videos now.
Speaker 4: The new features, which will be available broadly next year,
Speaker 4: will let advertisers use generative AI to turn static images
Speaker 4: into video ads, and marketers will also be able to
Speaker 4: edit and adjust the size of the video ads automatically.
Speaker 4: Let's bring in Rachel Tibograph, who is a founder and
Speaker 4: CEO of mcmac e commerce marketing platform from multichannel Brands.
Speaker 4: So interesting all these generative AI tools we had, of
Speaker 4: course to CEO coming on of other key social media
Speaker 4: companies that have really been thinking about the ways in
Speaker 4: which they can use jenners to AI. That was Pinterest
Speaker 4: last week. We get Meta today, Rachel. What does it
Speaker 4: add to your marketers who want to spend time on
Speaker 4: these companies.
Speaker 12: Yeah, the announcement that Meta made around what they call
Speaker 12: metagen video is pretty big because the number one barrier
Speaker 12: to advertising is creative and the fastest growing ad platforms
Speaker 12: are ones that are centered around short form video. So
Speaker 12: the fact that they're now going to create solutions that
Speaker 12: democratize video creation, it should boon to them to get
Speaker 12: more AD dollars, not just from Big Fortune one thousand brands,
Speaker 12: but really all of the SMB businesses, and that's the
Speaker 12: long tail of advertising that's really going to propel mephis
Speaker 12: growth forward.
Speaker 4: But go into this visual that we see now impressions
Speaker 4: Commerce impressions, You'll say, basically, Meta is driving two thirds
Speaker 4: of social traffic or mike Max's already a winning formula.
Speaker 12: From your perspective, it absolutely is. But to put this
Speaker 12: slide into context, between twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four,
Speaker 12: we've seen a ten percent growth in brand traffic in Meta.
Speaker 12: We've seen one hundred and ninety percent growth in brand
Speaker 12: traffic in TikTok. So if Meta wants to continue to
Speaker 12: have this huge leap in front of platforms like TikTok
Speaker 12: and Google, it needs to continue to make investments in
Speaker 12: their platform. They cannot rest on their laurels. And that's
Speaker 12: why I'm personally very proud of Meta for recognizing that
Speaker 12: they need to make deep advancements in AI to continue
Speaker 12: to lower the barrier to entry for advertisers.
Speaker 5: Rach, I'd like to go back to Meta and that
Speaker 5: news for a minute, because you understand the importance of
Speaker 5: technology from the advertiser's perspective, right. The basics of it are,
Speaker 5: this new feature can turn a static image into a
Speaker 5: video ad simple. But I think metas startings get a
Speaker 5: lot of credit for the real world progress it's making
Speaker 5: in AI. Just your reaction to that basic idea and
Speaker 5: what you think it will do to move the path
Speaker 5: forward for advertisers.
Speaker 12: Yeah. Absolutely, So to put this into context, advertisers can
Speaker 12: spend somewhere between ten percent of their overall marketing investments.
Speaker 12: I'm creative, but that's just in the cost of creative,
Speaker 12: the amount of hours that go into creating a video,
Speaker 12: approving a video, up and down the total pole. That's
Speaker 12: several people's jobs within an organization. So a simple solution
Speaker 12: like this might seem obvious and small, but it actually
Speaker 12: can change marketing and advertising as we know it. It
Speaker 12: also could create a rippling effect in terms of headcount.
Speaker 12: You might need fewer marketers with tools like this, So
Speaker 12: it's a really big deal in the advertising industry. The
Speaker 12: flip side is from Fortune one thousand brands. When it
Speaker 12: comes to AI and creative, they do have two major concerns.
Speaker 12: Number one is copyright violation and number two is data privacy.
Speaker 12: So there is a difference when you talk to a
Speaker 12: marketer that's running a business that's doing fifty million dollars
Speaker 12: revenue versus when you talk to a marketer that's running
Speaker 12: a business doing a billion dollars in revenue. So Meta
Speaker 12: is going to have some work to do with the
Speaker 12: major advertisers to us sage concerns around copyright and data privacy.
Speaker 5: I think we're going to move on a little bit
Speaker 5: to Amazon. It's Prime Day. I know that at home
Speaker 5: Prime Day is going to be big, So I've got
Speaker 5: a few things, so I've got to get for other people.
Speaker 5: Let's be honest, it's completely inane. Why is Amazon Prime
Speaker 5: Day window important for you in your platform?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 12: Absolutely so. Amazon Prime Day has now become a ten
Speaker 12: pole mode moment, not just within the US but globally.
Speaker 12: It's a day to really move a lot of excess
Speaker 12: supply and bring value to consumers. In twenty twenty four,
Speaker 12: this is really important on any given day. At MCKMAC
Speaker 12: this year, we've seen a twenty percent decline in basket sizes.
Speaker 12: You've now seen this play out in public earnings of
Speaker 12: mass consumer product companies. Volume sales are down. Why Because
Speaker 12: the last few years major mass consumer product companies have
Speaker 12: taken price hikes and now consumers are fighting back with
Speaker 12: their wallets. What Amazon Prime Day is going to show
Speaker 12: us today and tomorrow is how willing are consumers going
Speaker 12: to spend during this year's holiday season. There's been inflation,
Speaker 12: there's been price hikes, but on the other side of
Speaker 12: the equation, the FED dropping interest rates and hopefully doing
Speaker 12: that again in November and December brings optimism to consumers.
Speaker 5: Rachel Tivograph, founder and CEO of matt covering all of it,
Speaker 5: thank you so much.
Speaker 4: The US is in the early stages of an investigation
Speaker 4: into potential Chinese hacking of American telecom companies. It's according
Speaker 4: to a top intelligence official. Investigators say a hackers may
Speaker 4: have accessed court authorized why tapping information.
Speaker 3: I want to discuss all of this.
Speaker 4: The president of Wandross and former CASA Chief of Staff
Speaker 4: kissed and Todd. So how do we know that it
Speaker 4: might be Chinese hackers?
Speaker 13: Well, we're still learning about this effort. But what we're
Speaker 13: hearing right now is that this malicious actor we're calling
Speaker 13: salt Typhoon, which is part of a People's Republic of
Speaker 13: China PRC state sponsored cyber campaign. This one in particular,
Speaker 13: we believe to have hacked into internet service providers a
Speaker 13: little over a month ago, and we're researching now if
Speaker 13: it in fact has hacked into communications companies. We do
Speaker 13: believe this is part of this broader campaign. We saw
Speaker 13: volt Typhoon earlier this year, which attacked our IT networks,
Speaker 13: and we've seen flax Typhoon, which is a cyber espionage
Speaker 13: effort by the People's Republic of China against thaiwik organizations.
Speaker 5: Kirstin, the focus is infrastructure telecoms, but war to infrastructure.
Speaker 5: Your expert analysis on.
Speaker 13: That, it's all infrastructure. When we look at intelligence over
Speaker 13: the last two years. Last year, our annual Threat Assessment
Speaker 13: from the United States Intelligence Community said that China would
Speaker 13: be seeking to pre position itself on all infrastructure, so
Speaker 13: that if we believe in china strategic objective to go
Speaker 13: after Taiwan, it would have the ability to disrupt and
Speaker 13: in some cases destroy our infrastructure to minimize our ability
Speaker 13: to act as an adversary against China against Taiwan.
Speaker 4: So the response the safety is there enough coming from
Speaker 4: the United States.
Speaker 13: We absolutely have to be doing more. If I'm a
Speaker 13: CEO or a board member of a company, I am
Speaker 13: ensuring that I am elevating my security, my safety, I
Speaker 13: have to assume that China is on my network. This
Speaker 13: isn't about fear. It's about strategy and being smart and
Speaker 13: preparing for a more secure and resilient infrastructure. We have
Speaker 13: to elevate our game. This shouldn't be news to any company.
Speaker 13: It shouldn't be news to any board member. Cyberboard governance,
Speaker 13: the ability to bring this into the boardroom has never
Speaker 13: been more critical. All companies, particularly critical infrastructure companies, should
Speaker 13: be testing business continuity plans, should be testing different scenarios
Speaker 13: to ensure that they are safe and secure in light
Speaker 13: of this increasing threat.
Speaker 5: Kissed and to President of Wondrous and former sis A
Speaker 5: chief of staff, thank you so much.
Speaker 8: This Thursday, Blue.
Speaker 3: Welcome back to Bluebog Technology.
Speaker 5: I'm Caroline Hid in New York and I'm Ed Ludlow
Speaker 5: in San Francisco.
Speaker 3: We are having a rally on our hands at the moment.
Speaker 4: Ed, look at the NASTAC at one point two percent,
Speaker 4: mag seven doing its thing.
Speaker 3: Who leads the charge? And VIDIA?
Speaker 4: Of course, let's get onto the individual movers as we
Speaker 4: still contemplate the direction of travel for the Federal Reserve
Speaker 4: and indeed whether they can continue to cut at the
Speaker 4: pace and video bounces back three point three. This makes
Speaker 4: it a thirteen percent rally.
Speaker 3: Over the last five days.
Speaker 4: As of course, we also get news about it's energy
Speaker 4: efficiency coming from its AI event that's happening today.
Speaker 3: Microsoft up a percentage point.
Speaker 4: Interestingly, though some more bearish coals are coming to this
Speaker 4: particular name.
Speaker 3: Will it live up to its AI hype?
Speaker 4: Oppenheimer now warning on its AI revenue being overestimated. Nevertheless,
Speaker 4: Microsoft pushes up more than a percentage point. Super Micro
Speaker 4: coming down from its super rally yesterday. We're down by
Speaker 4: almost six percent, let's call it after it rallied more
Speaker 4: than fifteen percent yesterday. This is on the back of
Speaker 4: it talking about it deploying over one hundred thousand graphics
Speaker 4: processing units so GPUs in just one quarter alone. They're
Speaker 4: also talking about liquid calling systems. But remember this is
Speaker 4: a name that's been beaten up because a word about accounting.
Speaker 3: The DOJ investigating that ed.
Speaker 5: Now there are corners of the market around the world
Speaker 5: where investors are a little bit disappointed that China is
Speaker 5: holding back on further stimulus, but Beijing still expressing confidence
Speaker 5: in current targets.
Speaker 12: Wand Boss.
Speaker 14: We have food of confidential and realizing our we're goes
Speaker 14: for the whole year and have full confidence in maintaining continued,
Speaker 14: steady and sound developments of the economy.
Speaker 5: Let's bring in bloombergs Isabelli, who all week has been
Speaker 5: tracking what's going on in the China equities market. And
Speaker 5: I guess if you're tuning into Bloomberg Technology for the
Speaker 5: first time, or even if you're tuning in for many
Speaker 5: times over the past week or so, this idea of
Speaker 5: China stimulus and following the world around the clock big
Speaker 5: market swings, particularly for tech names. What's kind of happened overnight?
Speaker 5: What's the new bit?
Speaker 15: So China reopened its market and anticipation was really building up.
Speaker 15: Everyone was excited what will happen because we saw this
Speaker 15: spectacular rally that was powered by the massive stimulus that
Speaker 15: we've seen. But as we saw the investors were disappointed.
Speaker 15: China immediately held the press conferencing their continent they will
Speaker 15: reach their growth goalsing they will promise to further support growth,
Speaker 15: but stop short of issuing more stimulus. So we have
Speaker 15: investors really underwhelmed by that. We have the benchmark CSI
Speaker 15: closing up around six percent, but that's after the eleven
Speaker 15: percent The Hangsng index in China tumbled ten percent that's
Speaker 15: the worse than two thousand and eight. And you look
Speaker 15: at the Golden Dragon Index now it's down by six
Speaker 15: and a half percent. The consensus among economists and analysts
Speaker 15: in my inbox is really just they're all disappointed. They're
Speaker 15: saying that, Okay, nothing much is new compared to the
Speaker 15: previous announcements, and it looks like the commitment to fiscal
Speaker 15: stimulus looks weaker than expected. So it just really shows
Speaker 15: how the optimism in China is quite fragile at this point.
Speaker 4: For now, ed it's about Lei the wrap up on
Speaker 4: what's happening for those Chinese related names. Let's go out
Speaker 4: to Europe now though, because JP Morgan Chairman and CEO
Speaker 4: Jamie Diamond sat down for an exclusive interview of the
Speaker 4: most Lisa Bromo. It's in London at JP Morgan's twelfth
Speaker 4: edition of the Textiles Conference in Europe. Here's what he
Speaker 4: had to say about the USIPO market.
Speaker 2: I think it may very well stay muted because markets
Speaker 2: may come down as opposed to just go up endlessly,
Speaker 2: and they may find other sources. So when I speak
Speaker 2: to a lot of private equity and private cap, private
Speaker 2: venture and stuff like that, they tell you they have
Speaker 2: more non and public sources. I do think it's very
Speaker 2: important that our policy make us understand, you know, because
Speaker 2: even here in the United States, we've made it hard
Speaker 2: to go public.
Speaker 4: Let's dig into that and some European names. Matt Gehl
Speaker 4: for more, you're head of Tech investment banking in Europe.
Speaker 4: For JP Morgan, Matt, it's great to have you here.
Speaker 3: And look, we seem to be seeing the same.
Speaker 4: There are some large FinTechs in particular that we're all
Speaker 4: waiting for with baited breath. We think of Klana, we
Speaker 4: think of Stripe, which of course US based but Irish
Speaker 4: founders think are revolute. But they're all able to tap
Speaker 4: the secondary market get liquidity that way. Is that going
Speaker 4: to continue?
Speaker 7: Yeah, well I think it will continue.
Speaker 16: But I also think getting these secondary deals done is
Speaker 16: actually a really signal of strength in the market. These
Speaker 16: companies are able to go out there, being able to
Speaker 16: give liquidity to some of their earlier investors, put a
Speaker 16: fairly attractive valuation on the company and remove some of
Speaker 16: the time pressure to having to go public. I think
Speaker 16: there's still a very strong intent of all these companies
Speaker 16: to get public in the near to medium term. By
Speaker 16: doing these secondary deals, it means they can go exactly
Speaker 16: when they're ready and not be forced into a window
Speaker 16: that might be a little bit challenged with some of
Speaker 16: the macro and geopolitical issues we're going to be facing
Speaker 16: over the next six to twelve months.
Speaker 4: Okay, So, amid that uncertainty, if they do tap the markets,
Speaker 4: do they do want to do an IPO where do
Speaker 4: they always come to the US at the moment given
Speaker 4: the liquidity here?
Speaker 16: Yeah, I think the US has certainly become the default
Speaker 16: for any business that's got a global footprint. And if
Speaker 16: you've got a global footprint, you have the ability to
Speaker 16: go public wherever you so choose. And the US is
Speaker 16: the deepest, it's the richest, and it's the most open,
Speaker 16: most regularly of all the IPO markets that are there.
Speaker 16: So for any European business it's got a global footprint,
Speaker 16: the US is really the first, the second, and the
Speaker 16: third option they're thinking about. But most companies are trying
Speaker 16: to keep optionality, and particularly companies that have more of
Speaker 16: a European centric footprint are European champion, they're definitely keeping
Speaker 16: the options open for a European deal and for larger
Speaker 16: European companies that have a European home grond. Those are
Speaker 16: deals we do think are going to be able to
Speaker 16: get done in Europe over the next twelve to twenty
Speaker 16: four months.
Speaker 8: Matt, it's ed here in San Francisco.
Speaker 7: I hope you're well.
Speaker 5: When I left London six years ago, it was those
Speaker 5: same fintech names that were the shining lights of European tech.
Speaker 8: Still the same.
Speaker 5: Names now for all the analyst decks that hit your
Speaker 5: desk and you're thinking about the next big thing? Is
Speaker 5: there anything else out there in your neck of the
Speaker 5: woods in industrials, hard tech chips.
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, I.
Speaker 16: Mean you said you said it right, those are the
Speaker 16: same names that are out there. They've gotten a lot
Speaker 16: bigger and so that's still a very good thing. So
Speaker 16: when they do go public, I think that's going to
Speaker 16: be very, very positive for the overall markets. But yeah,
Speaker 16: we are seeing a lot of investments into new areas.
Speaker 16: Deep tech has become really the buzzword of Europe, just as.
Speaker 7: It's in the US.
Speaker 16: So that's spanning everything from the European versions of the LMS,
Speaker 16: but we're increasingly seeing new investment going into chip companies,
Speaker 16: into industrial software companies, and so I think we've widened
Speaker 16: out a lot of the focus of the investment in
Speaker 16: Europe beyond just fintech, in some traditional enterprise software and
Speaker 16: I think that's going to be a net benefit for
Speaker 16: the whole ecosystem as we look out two three four
Speaker 16: years in.
Speaker 5: The context of technology, what is the future for London's
Speaker 5: equity capital market? Is there evidence to you that in
Speaker 5: the post Brexit world it's a great place to do
Speaker 5: a tech IPA.
Speaker 16: I think it could be a great place to do
Speaker 16: a tech IPO for the right company. As I mentioned,
Speaker 16: if it's a British based company that's got a global
Speaker 16: footprint like an ARM, a very natural listing location is
Speaker 16: going to be the US. It's got the deepest investor base,
Speaker 16: It's going to get you the best valuation, and that
Speaker 16: was really a huge success for ARM. If there's a
Speaker 16: business as I mentioned before, that looks more European, a
Speaker 16: little bit more UK centric, and it's going to come
Speaker 16: out with a sizable offering and a lot of liquidity,
Speaker 16: there certainly is an.
Speaker 7: Investor base to tap, but it really.
Speaker 16: Needs to be the right type of company public in
Speaker 16: the UK at the right time.
Speaker 4: Let's talk about ARM a little bit more. They've often
Speaker 4: perhaps taken questions at least and whether they do another
Speaker 4: offering secondary listing over in the UK, we're also thinking
Speaker 4: it might be getting in the mix of what we
Speaker 4: are in terms of M and A as well. What
Speaker 4: do you hear on ARM and how do you hope
Speaker 4: to serve the company?
Speaker 16: Yeah, I think well, I mean the IPO, as I mentioned,
Speaker 16: has been a huge success in the US, and normally
Speaker 16: in the months and quarters after an IPL you like
Speaker 16: to concentrate your liquidity in a single market, so I
Speaker 16: think that's been the focus for the company. Certainly, over
Speaker 16: time it could make sense to open up another listing,
Speaker 16: just like most of the major European companies have eight
Speaker 16: hours listed in the US, the likes of ASML or
Speaker 16: even ARM when it was listed in the UK, we'd
Speaker 16: do that. So I think that's certainly something they're thinking
Speaker 16: about doing in the near to medium term, but it's
Speaker 16: not imminent. From an m Andy standpoint, you know, ARM
Speaker 16: is not vinetarily inquisitive company, but because they become so
Speaker 16: central to the entire ecosystem, and because so much more
Speaker 16: activities happening around M and A and semi connectors, You
Speaker 16: certainly can't put it past them. The one thing they
Speaker 16: need to focus on, as ARM has always been the
Speaker 16: Switzerland of semi connectors. They're neutral and sell to everybody,
Speaker 16: So before considering any type of M and A, they
Speaker 16: need to make sure they're not going to create a
Speaker 16: situation where they're competing with their customers.
Speaker 3: There lies a large company.
Speaker 4: What you can do from a JP Morgan perspective in
Speaker 4: terms of secondary listings, in terms of advice is huge.
Speaker 4: What about the companies that are coming through the ranks
Speaker 4: and getting themselves VC funding just early stages. How are
Speaker 4: you looking to serve them or who's come to fill
Speaker 4: the void of Silicon Valley Bank?
Speaker 3: Is it the HSBC that makes the purchase.
Speaker 16: Well, I think it's an open market. There's a lot
Speaker 16: of people trying to fill it. We certainly like to
Speaker 16: be one of the ones that are doing so. We've
Speaker 16: recently hired over fifty bankers that are completely focused on
Speaker 16: serving early stage technology companies really Series A onwards and
Speaker 16: trying to fill the void that some of the challenges
Speaker 16: that Silicon Valley Bank went through.
Speaker 7: But it's not just because of it we've done that.
Speaker 16: We've done that because we think if we can engage
Speaker 16: with the company.
Speaker 7: Earlier in his life, we can help that.
Speaker 16: Company grow when they really need to support the most.
Speaker 16: That's what cements the relationship. You get to know the CEO,
Speaker 16: the board, the founders really well. You help them think
Speaker 16: through strategically what to do, and then you're not telling
Speaker 16: an IPO story for someone you never met before.
Speaker 7: You're telling an IPO story for a company you've been
Speaker 7: working for for five years.
Speaker 16: So I think there's just a huge opportunity to bank
Speaker 16: a company as a bank you can never grow out of.
Speaker 7: And that's what we're trying to do together at JP.
Speaker 7: Morgan Matt.
Speaker 5: Let's end the conversation with twenty twenty five. What's the
Speaker 5: technology story going to be in Europe next year?
Speaker 16: I think the technology story, it's such a global industry,
Speaker 16: it's going to be very much the same as what
Speaker 16: we're seeing in the US markets. I think we are
Speaker 16: starting to see a broadening out beyond the Magnificent seven
Speaker 16: and starting to see investors to look more toward some
Speaker 16: of the smaller cap names, some of the higher growth
Speaker 16: names that aren't in.
Speaker 7: That large cap back basket.
Speaker 16: We're starting to see similar things happen in Europe. I
Speaker 16: think Jamie earlier noted that we may still see a
Speaker 16: somewhat more muted IPO market in the first six months
Speaker 16: or so of the year, but we are seeing a
Speaker 16: ramp and activity of companies preparing to go public.
Speaker 7: That's happening in the US, that's happening.
Speaker 16: For European companies that want to go public in the States,
Speaker 16: and that's happening for emia based companies that go public here.
Speaker 16: So I think the future is looking brighter for IPOs.
Speaker 16: It might not be a stampede in the first couple
Speaker 16: of months of next year, but it's certainly looking on
Speaker 16: like twenty five is setting. It selled up to be
Speaker 16: better than twenty four and certainly than twenty three.
Speaker 4: Was Matt gal for more. We thank you head of
Speaker 4: Tech Investment Banking in Europe for JP Morgan. Now, let's
Speaker 4: just talk about TikTok, because moments ago it responded to
Speaker 4: its lawsuits by fourteen states alleging harmful features on the
Speaker 4: platform for children.
Speaker 3: Now, the company says.
Speaker 4: That we strongly disagree with these claims, many of which
Speaker 4: we believe to be inaccurate and misleading. We're proud of
Speaker 4: and remain deeply committed to the work we've done to
Speaker 4: protect teams.
Speaker 3: We will continue to update and improve our product.
Speaker 4: You can see the statement in full on Bloomberg dot com.
Speaker 17: All right, coming up on Bloomberg Technology, the world's largest
Speaker 17: virtual clinic for women and families raises one hundred and
Speaker 17: twenty five million dollars in a Series F round.
Speaker 8: We're going to speak with the CEO, Kate Rider. That's next.
Speaker 8: This is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 3: Virtual clinic. The Maven Clinic.
Speaker 4: Says it's raised one hundred and twenty five million dollars
Speaker 4: in It's Lacy's latest Series F funding round, bringing its
Speaker 4: valuation to one point seven million dollars. For more, We're
Speaker 4: joined by the CEO, Kate Ryder, and look, Stepstone Group
Speaker 4: leads the round. You've got existing investors, General Catalyst Ae
Speaker 4: Koya coming on board.
Speaker 3: What do they want to see you do with the
Speaker 3: new funds? Kate?
Speaker 18: Well, big plans as you can imagine. But I think
Speaker 18: you know, we're we're really excited to complete this fund
Speaker 18: raising round at a time when there's never been more
Speaker 18: need in women's in family health, and I think over
Speaker 18: the last decade since we started, we've really been able
Speaker 18: to build a comprehensive care platform deliver better access across fertility, maternity, pediatrics,
Speaker 18: and menopause care. And now really the next decade is
Speaker 18: about transformation and taking a lot of the data and
Speaker 18: the distribution power that we have to go even deeper
Speaker 18: to really transform outcomes.
Speaker 4: Your own chief product and operating officer says, look, maven
Speaker 4: Clinic is technology platform and a healthcare company an equal measure.
Speaker 4: We care about the technology element to a certain degree
Speaker 4: first and foremost on the show. Okay, so what do
Speaker 4: you do with the data? Is it all about articial intelligence?
Speaker 4: Where does that funding.
Speaker 3: Go to work?
Speaker 19: Well?
Speaker 18: I think for us, the care engine that powers our
Speaker 18: care coaching and our telehealth and all of the providers
Speaker 18: that come together to take care of our patients is
Speaker 18: one of the areas that we're most excited about. And
Speaker 18: so if you can imagine all of the different ways
Speaker 18: and all of the different data points that our members generate,
Speaker 18: both on the platform as well as through third party
Speaker 18: sources like wearables or data and EMRs, if all of
Speaker 18: our providers have access to that, then just care itself
Speaker 18: becomes that much better.
Speaker 8: You can get into predicting.
Speaker 12: Risk, but really it should feel.
Speaker 18: You know, healthcare is such a fragmented industry with your
Speaker 18: data in so many different places that you know, I
Speaker 18: think for across all journeys, it's just going to start
Speaker 18: to feel better very very soon as Mayven in other
Speaker 18: platforms like ourselves, start to really harness the power of
Speaker 18: artificial intelligence in our underlying technology.
Speaker 5: Kate Maven is a great example of technology and a
Speaker 5: different approach to an industry that is beholden to an
Speaker 5: insurance system. I always ask about this, how do you
Speaker 5: fit within America's insurance system? So in practice it's actually
Speaker 5: easy for parents who have to decide can I do this?
Speaker 5: You know, can I make use of this service in
Speaker 5: a way that I can afford it?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 18: No, it's a great question. And you know, for us,
Speaker 18: we truly believe in an industry as central as women's
Speaker 18: in family healthcare, you have to innovate from within and
Speaker 18: partner with insurance and providers to deliver the best care
Speaker 18: and experiences for members. And so for us, we actually
Speaker 18: do partner with some of the largest insurans. So whereas
Speaker 18: we're helping fill in a lot of gaps and access
Speaker 18: to care with our virtual care model, we're also helping
Speaker 18: members understand their benefits, what's covered, what's not. And then
Speaker 18: in fertility specifically, we are the payers. So we have
Speaker 18: a carve out fertility model called Maven Managed Benefit where
Speaker 18: we have contracted rates with a lot of different fertility
Speaker 18: clinics best in class around the country. And so that
Speaker 18: also allows our members to have a really transparent experience
Speaker 18: while they're managing their fertility journeys, know exactly how much
Speaker 18: everything costs, you know, get the virtual care and coaching
Speaker 18: through Maven, and then as they make their way into
Speaker 18: the maternity journey, and that's also when we're really partnered
Speaker 18: with the health Insuran to help them have the healthiest
Speaker 18: outcome you know, possible during their pregnancy and get all
Speaker 18: the right access to their benefits.
Speaker 5: Caroline asked you what the investors in this series F
Speaker 5: wor wanted to see and the other question to finish
Speaker 5: this conversation that comes out of a series F is
Speaker 5: when is your company going to stand on its own
Speaker 5: two feet, make meaningful revenue the business model support your
Speaker 5: business when I would like.
Speaker 18: To think we're standing on our tv and making meaningful
Speaker 18: revenue today. However, if we're asking about is going public
Speaker 18: then it is certainly we do want to, you know,
Speaker 18: be a public company one day. I think it's really
Speaker 18: important that, you know, we center women and families at
Speaker 18: the center of our care model for us to remain independent,
Speaker 18: and so we're very heads down on our product roadmap.
Speaker 18: There's still so much left to do and to build,
Speaker 18: so we're taking a few more big bets first, but
Speaker 18: the public markets is where we intend to head.
Speaker 5: Okay, Ryder Mayven Clinic se, it's great to have you
Speaker 5: back on Bloomberg Technology. Thank you very much and congrats.
Speaker 3: Looking now.
Speaker 4: In the next edition of Bloomberg Chief Future Officer, I
Speaker 4: sat down with ETCCFO Rachel Glazer, who is keeping the
Speaker 4: e commerce giant focused on growth as post pandemic inflation
Speaker 4: cuts into spending. Here's how she's using AI to help.
Speaker 19: I think Etsy's uniquely physician to benefit from AI. Finding
Speaker 19: that needle in the haystack is this tricky That's part
Speaker 19: of what makes Etsy both delightful and frustrating to people.
Speaker 11: And being able to serve.
Speaker 19: The good stuff to the top fastest is where AI
Speaker 19: can really benefit us.
Speaker 1: Our mission is keeping commerce human and actually we talk
Speaker 1: about AI is helping us to be super human. It's
Speaker 1: really the partnership between AI and humans that makes Epsy work.
Speaker 4: AI can help Etsy's customers personalize their searches and steers
Speaker 4: shoppers more directly.
Speaker 3: To items they may want to buy.
Speaker 4: It's also helped the company improve reliability by predicting delivery
Speaker 4: times more precisely, but that doesn't solve a larger challenge
Speaker 4: getting more consumers to think of Etsy more often and
Speaker 4: ultimately become repeat biased.
Speaker 3: To this end, Etsy invented.
Speaker 19: Gift Mode, getting in the top of mind consideration when
Speaker 19: you're thinking I have a gift, I'm going to go
Speaker 19: to Etsy. Just getting that to be more habitual. Gift
Speaker 19: Mode provides a perfect opportunity for that. We get to
Speaker 19: know the gifter, but we also get to.
Speaker 11: Know the recipient.
Speaker 19: So it's a way to sort of a more viral
Speaker 19: way to bring in more introduce more people to to Etsy.
Speaker 4: It's the introduced gift mode with a flourish rolling it
Speaker 4: out to an audience of millions.
Speaker 7: That's a really good gift.
Speaker 11: Now we've got to get fans something.
Speaker 12: Wait, we could use it's new gift mode for.
Speaker 2: Don't easy gift mode new minets.
Speaker 4: You well took a big bold fast bet this year
Speaker 4: and I'm for a Super Bowl ad.
Speaker 3: How much is marketing part of the process? How important
Speaker 3: is that as a cost base?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 11: I love marketing.
Speaker 19: I was told by another CEO that I work for
Speaker 19: that I'm most growth oriented CFO that he had ever
Speaker 19: worked with, because I'm a big believer in spending that
Speaker 19: money to increase brand awareness. A big bet on the
Speaker 19: Super Bowl ad was never intended to be an rowa
Speaker 19: positive investment. It was really intended to be a launch
Speaker 19: of a new initiative, a product.
Speaker 11: We We've said a.
Speaker 3: Lot of times that it was a kickoff, not the
Speaker 3: mic drop.
Speaker 4: So Miss Bloomberg Chief Future Officer, featuring ETCCFO Richard Glazer,
Speaker 4: Tonight nine thirty pm New York Time bed.
Speaker 5: Okay, time for talking tech and first start. Rivian shares
Speaker 5: plunged last week after it slashed its production outlook.
Speaker 7: We know why.
Speaker 5: A miscommunication between Rivian and a supplier left the carmaker
Speaker 5: without access to copper windings, a core component in its
Speaker 5: electric motors. Plus the UK's opening and Office to speed
Speaker 5: up approvals of AI drone and other new technologies. The
Speaker 5: Regulatory Innovation Office is designed to reduce the time entrepreneurs
Speaker 5: wait to get inventions to market. It will also streamline
Speaker 5: the regulatory hurdle startups deal with. And Google's assessing nuclear
Speaker 5: power there's a possible energy source.
Speaker 8: For data centers.
Speaker 5: You may join Microsoft and Amazon in using atomic energy
Speaker 5: to feed the AI boom. The companies not ruled out
Speaker 5: Japan as a source for its energy.
Speaker 7: Caroc.
Speaker 4: What a show, What a lot of breaking news. That
Speaker 4: does it for this edition of Remode Technology.
Speaker 5: Recap, check out the pub you know where to find
Speaker 5: it from New York and SF.
Speaker 8: This has been made technology