1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,080 Speaker 1: Coming up on you need therapy. 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 2: If you're all in public and you see a kid 3 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 2: throwing a tantrum, that is just regulating for everybody. Our 4 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 2: nervous systems are like, yeah, freak out, this kid's freaking out. 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 3: Let's join that. We're mirroring that. 6 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 2: But as the parent, the job is to be the 7 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 2: container for that. It's not to dismiss it. It's not 8 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 2: to join in it and freak out or join the tantrum, 9 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 2: but it is to be the container and to help 10 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 2: calm and regulate the child Through that experience. 11 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't 12 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: a liability, it's a real gift. 13 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: If we don't know something about ourselves at this point 14 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 2: in our life, it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know. 15 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,599 Speaker 1: If you can die before you die, then you can 16 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: really live. There's a wisdom at death's door. 17 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 3: I thought I was insane. Yeah, and I didn't know 18 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 3: what to do because there was no internet. 19 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel like everything 20 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. I'm a 21 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: human first and a licensed therapist second, and right now 22 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope encourage you 23 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 1: to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others, 24 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: and the world around you. Welcome to You Need Therapy. 25 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of You 26 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: Need Therapy podcast. I am here with another fellow therapist 27 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: that you guys hopefully will remember. Her name is Julia 28 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: and she actually works at Three Courts Therapy. So we're 29 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: in my office right now versus being at my house recording, 30 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: which is fun because you have two therapists talking to 31 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: you from the therapist's couch. Well, I guess you're on the couch. 32 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: I'm going a chair. Welcome. 33 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 3: Thank you. 34 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: Okay. So for anybody who does not or has not 35 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: heard Julia on the podcast before, you've I feel like 36 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: you've been on like four ish time. Yeah okay. So 37 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: if you're a newer listener, then I want you want 38 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: to go back and listen to those episodes. But two, 39 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 1: I want Julia to just say a little bit about 40 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: who you are. I already said that you're a therapist. 41 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: What else would you want them to know? 42 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 2: I work with trauma in adults and I've lived in 43 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 2: Nashville for almost ten years. Oh wow, Yeah, it's almost home. 44 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 2: I feel like I can almost say a native. 45 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: You know, that's interesting that you say that, because since 46 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: I am from here, I like feel like I don't 47 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: get to say that. You know, like, I've lived here 48 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: for ten years? 49 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 3: How long have you lived here? Cats stay your age? 50 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: Ex kidding? Since I was in second grade? Oh yeah, 51 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: that's right. But I guess it feels different like me 52 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: saying like I've been here since second grade feels different 53 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: than like me moving here in adulthood and be though, Okay, 54 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: I don't want it to sound cute anyway. Okay. So 55 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: Julia's a therapist. She works with trauma. She actually has 56 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: talked about with us on here before, some spiritual trauma. 57 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: I think we talked about your first experiences in therapy. 58 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: We talked about I think you came on during suicide 59 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,679 Speaker 1: prevention week. Yes, that the week. Okay, So she knows 60 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: a lot. And I actually was in her office across 61 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: the hall. I guess that's not a hall across the lobby, sure, 62 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: the other day. And was I telling you about how 63 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,119 Speaker 1: I wanted a laminator or were you just showing. 64 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 3: Me this notepaper? 65 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 2: I had just come from FedEx and I was showing 66 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: you the things that I got laminated from FedEx. 67 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: Okay, and I was really. 68 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 2: Excited about it, and I showed you and one of 69 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 2: them was what we're going to talk about today. 70 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: Okay, that's one of is. So I'm sure some of 71 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: you guys are relating to this. There was not more 72 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: joy that I can remember than that when I would 73 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: go back to school shopping as a child, like for supplies, 74 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: not even for clothing, like getting the new folders and 75 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: the binders and the notebooks and the highlighters and that, 76 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: like all of that stuff, and like did you get 77 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: like the cool what was like that? A trapper keeper binders? 78 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: Do you have one of those? Yes? Or did you 79 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: have to? Do you have book covers? Yes? 80 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 3: All of that. 81 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: I actually never got book covers. 82 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 3: I'll get you one, thank you for. 83 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: My textbooks that I carry around now. So as an adult, 84 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: the compliment to that would be you going to like 85 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: FedEx and binding something or laminating something or anything like that. Anyway, 86 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: I'm saying all this to say, I just got a 87 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: laminator for the office and we just laminated our first 88 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: piece of baby. 89 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 3: Write it out. 90 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: And I'm sure you guys, if you've never listened to 91 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: this podcast, you're like, Okay, this is a great show. 92 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: But if you get this, then. 93 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 3: You're a friend of ours. How cool lamination is. 94 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: I wish I recorded us doing it because we just 95 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: were like standing over laminador or watching it go through. 96 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 3: It's being very gentle. 97 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: You like wouldn't like it was very cute. And I'm 98 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: telling that story because what we're gonna talk about today. 99 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 1: I saw this I guess handout and I was like, Oh, 100 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: that's interesting. That would be something that one I want that, 101 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: but two I think that's something that we could talk 102 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: about on you need therapy. But I'm just going to 103 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: hand this to you, and I'm going to like, I 104 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: want to know where you found this stuff, and then 105 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: we'll get into all of the meat of it. So 106 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: what is it? Where to find it? So? 107 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 3: I found it a couple different ways. 108 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 2: It's called Needs of a Child, and initially I found 109 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: it from another podcaster who is a therapist called Adam Young. 110 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 2: He has a podcast called The Places We Find Ourselves, 111 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 2: which is excellent. He is a LCSW and an MDiv 112 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 2: so he does incorporate some spiritual components into it into 113 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 2: his work and the podcast, but he created a resource, 114 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 2: which you can find on his website, Adamyong Counseling dot 115 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 2: com called the Big Six what every child needs from 116 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 2: their parents, and so he included it into like six pieces. Later, 117 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 2: I went to a training from a local therapist in town, 118 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: Carla bab shout out to you, she's wonderful, and she 119 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 2: provided a she during this training called the Needs. 120 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,239 Speaker 3: Of a Child that included eight needs. So I use both. 121 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 2: I think there's overlap with both of them, and you'll 122 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 2: see that as I explain it. 123 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 3: But it's super interesting to talk about with clients. 124 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: So when you bring this up with a client, do 125 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: you bring it up with every client? Or I know 126 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: there's some therapist that will just when you fill out 127 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: your paperwork, they just you get into your portal and 128 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: they just have these resources already in there, and it 129 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: might be something that they talk about in a first 130 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: session or they just constantly use. So you have your own. 131 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: So is this something that you've noticed yourself sharing like 132 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: early on, or it's coming up when somebody is processing 133 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: early childhood trauma, or maybe they're processing experiences in their 134 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: adult life and you're like, oh, actually, like we got 135 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: to take it all the way back. 136 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think what I am listening for when I 137 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 2: decide to bring this out is usually I do work 138 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: with a lot of clients who like know they have 139 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 2: childhood trauma, and that's very much what we're talking about. 140 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 2: But there's a lot of clients who I will sit 141 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: with who are hesitant to name anything as trauma or 142 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 2: neglect or abuse, and are very much of like the 143 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 2: in the minimizing camp, like, my parents gave me what 144 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 2: I needed, I had a good childhood. And then I 145 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 2: will hand them this sheet because I'm hearing some of 146 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 2: the things that they might have been lacking on this 147 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 2: listed on this sheet, and they'll look at it and 148 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 2: they'll be like, oh, yeah, I didn't have this, I 149 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 2: didn't have X, y Z. And it helps open up 150 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: the conversation to Okay, yeah, your parents they're not all 151 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 2: good or bad, but there were things that were lacking 152 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 2: that are showing up in your life now in your relationships, 153 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 2: and let's talk about those and put a name to them. 154 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: That's such a common theme in therapy is that, especially 155 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: when you have a what you would call your like 156 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: yourself as the client or human, a good childhood, like 157 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: you're not being like I had all this neglect, right, 158 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: you want to hold that is true, which is a positive. 159 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: I think this is a good trait to have to 160 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: not want to look to blame other people for your problem. 161 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: It's like, no, this is a me thing. But what 162 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: I imagine this to be helpful with too, is there 163 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: are needs that every human has that we don't know 164 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: that we have. You don't go over this list in 165 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: high school, like you're not like this is what you 166 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: should be making sure that it just is a thing 167 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: that is true, But we could be missing things that 168 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: we don't realize are important. And because they're on more 169 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: of the emotional side, they are things that essentially they're 170 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: less tangible and they're more felt experiences that you just 171 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: don't know that that's a thing. It's not like, well 172 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: I had food and water, right, okay, But there are 173 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: needs outside of just our physical survival needs, and that's 174 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: important to acknowledge and talk about and realize. And I 175 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: think something that I try to talk about in the 176 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: episode I did about Little T trauma is that something 177 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be this like huge, big shocking experience. 178 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: You don't have to have this big thing or doesn't 179 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: have to be so exaggerated for you to not have 180 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: gotten what you may have needed in that moment. And 181 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: that's important, I think to talk about with clients because again, 182 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: we live in a world where it's like, stuck it up, 183 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: wasn't that bad? And maybe it wasn't that bad, but 184 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: this was still important. And if we don't acknowledge that 185 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: you didn't get that met, then you can't go back 186 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: and get that met now mm. 187 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 2: Hmm, and you're probably searching for it now and it's 188 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 2: coming out sad ways. 189 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so let's just go through them. So needs 190 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: of a child, we're gonna go through eight. Yes, no 191 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: specific order, Yep, You're just gonna tell us what they 192 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: are and we'll see where it takes us. 193 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 3: We'll talk about them, Okay. 194 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 2: First one is the need to be That is when 195 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,839 Speaker 2: you are born, and you didn't ask to be born, 196 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 2: so you just have the right to take up space 197 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 2: because you didn't ask to be here. So that's really 198 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 2: just like allowing yourself to exis do I know that 199 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 2: I was wanted and or do I feel like I 200 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 2: interrupted something with my parents? Like maybe this is seen 201 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 2: from a mom or dad who was pursuing a career 202 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 2: and talks about you know, I was on my A 203 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 2: game and then we got pregnant with you, and you 204 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 2: start to feel like, oh my gosh, I'm taking up 205 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 2: space because I showed up. I didn't ask to be here, 206 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 2: so you're feeling like I don't have like I'm almost 207 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:30,119 Speaker 2: this burden mentality. 208 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 3: So that's the need to be. 209 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,959 Speaker 1: So the need is really let's say that was true, 210 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: like I was doing this thing with my career and 211 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: then I surprised I got pregnant. That kind of removes 212 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: that need to be versus I was working on my 213 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: career D da da da, and then we got pregnant. Yeah, 214 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: and then you showed up and things shifted and it 215 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: was hard and we were so grateful. It's like the 216 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: same thing could happen, but it's the way that you 217 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: experience it happening, or experience somebody sharing that with you. 218 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 2: Yes, the way seeing it. It's talked about the way 219 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 2: your parents talk about having you. Have you watched Gilmore Girls? 220 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: Yes? Okay, good, that's the one show. When DVD's were 221 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: a thing, I would get those for Christmas. I would 222 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: get the seasons on DVD. 223 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 2: Oh wait, yeah, my mom and I used to get 224 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 2: like Netflix in the mail, remember that, and we'd watch 225 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 2: them on Netflix. Yeah, so we watched that together. But 226 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 2: I think about, like they talk about so much about 227 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 2: Rory showing up and whatever. I think that we could 228 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 2: do a whole case study, probably on the character of 229 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 2: Rory and her need. 230 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: To be well, do you think she experienced that? 231 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 2: I think I do, because she's kind of glorified in 232 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 2: that show in a certain way. But I also think 233 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 2: that the show plays a lot on how like there 234 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 2: was an interruption in lauralized life because she got pregnant 235 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 2: at sixteen and you see that with Christopher and we 236 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 2: could have gotten married and all this all that stuff, because. 237 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about how like Lorea Eliah is such she's 238 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: obsessed with Rory. 239 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 3: Yes, so maybe it's like, but everybody else is like. 240 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: This kid ruined your Like Emily is like, well, you 241 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: around your life and have the best life. So that's 242 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 1: very confusing. I imagine that would be confusing, And I'm 243 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: sure there are people out there that have similar experience, 244 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: where like I had a parent or maybe two parents 245 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: that were like so loving and happy and grateful, and 246 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: I felt that and then the world around me maybe 247 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,839 Speaker 1: sounded a little different. Yes, okay, So what's the next one? 248 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: All right? 249 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 3: Next the need to have needs? 250 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 2: So this is looking at when you're an infant and 251 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 2: you are dependent on others for all your basic needs 252 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 2: and how you have to cry to get those met. 253 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 2: Are your caregivers responsive in that space for you? Are 254 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 2: they responding to your needs to be taken care of, 255 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: to be to feel safe and connected through that too? 256 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 2: Those are two basic needs in every stage of life, 257 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 2: to feel safe and connected. And that's where we learn 258 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 2: in infancy. If I have a need, am I allowed 259 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 2: to have this need? And is it going to be 260 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 2: responded to? Which we'll get into you later. 261 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: Well, and that's an interesting one because that's the spectrum 262 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: of needs like the need to like cry and be 263 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: fed if you're crying because you're hungry, but also the 264 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: need to cry and be sooth if you just are dysregulated. Right, 265 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: The needs could be anything, but we get I think 266 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: that's the one I see, And I'm curious what you think. 267 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: What you see some of the most kind of gets 268 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: I want to use the word ruffled, shaken, I think 269 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: it or inconsistent, and that can really affect how we 270 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: show up with the people in our lives as adults, 271 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: where Okay, well, yeah, I might understand that, and this 272 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:45,719 Speaker 1: is different for everybody because also I work with a 273 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: lot of eating sources. This isn't always look like this, 274 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, I might understand that I have the need 275 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: to like have shelter, or I have the need to 276 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: have food and eat. And to what degree am I 277 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: the one that's self sacrificing? So like I have a room, 278 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: but like I'm going to always give myself the last 279 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: of everything. I'm going to take the smallest bed or 280 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: like the smallest room, or I'm going to use the 281 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: hand me down sheets that have holes in them from 282 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: da da da or And the same with food is 283 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: like I'm going to be the last one to feed 284 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: myself and I want to make sure everybody else is 285 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: satisfied before I even think about taking a share. Or 286 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: it could be like I can have those needs met, 287 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: but I don't have the need to process something or 288 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: vent about something. I'll be there for other people, but 289 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: I don't always think that I'm allowed to do that 290 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: because of whatever I learned from that experience growing up. 291 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, am I abandoning my needs constantly because I didn't 292 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 2: learn that I was allowed to have needs. 293 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, okay, number three. 294 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 2: So this is where we see the need to have 295 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 2: attunement and responsiveness from our caregivers. So that's kind of 296 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 2: what I was getting into. Attunement is when you're experiencing 297 00:14:55,520 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 2: something and a parent is connected in understanding to what 298 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 2: you're experiencing. So let's say I'm this could look really 299 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 2: loud like I'm having a fit, and my parent is 300 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 2: understanding that I'm angry and is maybe getting down to 301 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 2: my level to understand and connect to me in that experience, 302 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 2: but it could even be. 303 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 3: Less obvious like that. 304 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 2: I think my mom was really good at this when 305 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 2: I thought I was throwing out a face to hide 306 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 2: whatever I was feeling, but she knew, you know, when 307 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 2: she checks in, like you're I think this is classic 308 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 2: middle school. You get in the car and you think 309 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 2: you're being subtle, and my mom would be like, what's 310 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 2: going on? Did you have an OKA day at school? 311 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: She's catching on, She's a tuning to what's going on 312 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 2: and then responding, And of course at thirteen, I was 313 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 2: probably like, yeah, I'm fine, mom, you know. 314 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: But stop being so dramatic. Not everything is that big 315 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: of a deal. Exactly. 316 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 3: I don't want to talk about it, but like I 317 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 3: want to do about it. 318 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: Yes, So just emotionally present, and I think that's one 319 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: of the things that I actually value the most even 320 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: presently people, It's like when I can tell somebody is 321 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: essentially it's like they're paying attention, Like they have enough 322 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: space for me that they can pay attention even when 323 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: I am trying to hide something. You might not have 324 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: known this as a middle schooler, but it's still probably 325 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: made a difference. Even if you don't really want your 326 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: mom to pay attention, it feels good that she paid 327 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: attention because you really do want her to. As much 328 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: as I was like, yeah, mom, leave me alone. School 329 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: was fine. If she did leave me alone, I might 330 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:32,359 Speaker 1: have felt a sense of abandonment. 331 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's delt. 332 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little bit of a test exactly, but 333 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: we don't know we're doing that. 334 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, you want to be noticed and then be 335 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 2: responded to, whether or not I took that opportunity, whether 336 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 2: or not we take that opportunity. Now in our adult relationships, 337 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 2: it's still you want to feel like someone is joining 338 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 2: me in this emotional world I'm in and can can 339 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 2: be there with me. 340 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like our first felt experiences of connection, especially 341 00:16:58,080 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: as a baby, when our parents are attuning to us 342 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: and they're maybe rocking us or looking at us in 343 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: the eye and like, I don't know, the little like 344 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: couueing eye. Yeah, just like you know, being I love 345 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: little babies and just being like. 346 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Like you know, when you are around a 347 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 2: parent who their child does like something for a millisecond, 348 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 2: they're like, oh, they're hungry, and like that's what it was. 349 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 2: I'm like, holy cow, is this some kind of like 350 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 2: secret language. They're just thinking, how did. 351 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 3: You know that? 352 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 2: But that's that's the attunement. Yeah, they're paying attention. They're 353 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 2: noticing and then responding, all. 354 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 1: Right, what was that? Three? That was three? Let's do four? 355 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 2: Number four need for support and regulating affect. So I 356 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 2: feel like these are some big therapy words. So to 357 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 2: break it down, affect is about what is showing up 358 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 2: emotionally for us and how we're presenting with that. So 359 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 2: if I'm feeling sad, how that's showing up in my behavior, 360 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 2: bodily expressions, speech, beach. 361 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, your voice. Yeah, like when you hear somebody says 362 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 1: they have a flat affect, It's like there was no 363 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: range of emotion or shift or change in their voice. 364 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: So if somebody has like a dysregulated affect where they're 365 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: just maybe they're very emotional, maybe something happened and they're distraught, 366 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: it is how do I bring that exaggerated, loud, maybe 367 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: chaotic back down into a space where I can show emotion, 368 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: but that emotion can be understood and said and it 369 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: fits what's going on. 370 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 2: So we're not born with the ability to regulate our 371 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 2: own emotions or affect. 372 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 1: Which I want you to say that again, that feels important. 373 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, we are not born with the ability to regulate 374 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 2: our own affect or emotions. And that's part of what 375 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 2: I think the last episode you did kind of got 376 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 2: into with coregulation. 377 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 3: As kids, we are. 378 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 2: Being regulated by our parents. And this gets really hard 379 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 2: because when you see a kid throwing a tantrum, even 380 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 2: if you're not the parent, if you're aut in public 381 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 2: and you see a kid throwing a tantrum, that is 382 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 2: just regulating for everybody. Our nervous systems are like, yeah, 383 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 2: freak out, this kid's freaking out. 384 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 3: Let's join that. 385 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 2: We're mirroring that. But as the parent, the job is 386 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 2: to be the container for that. It's not to dismiss it. 387 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 2: It's not to join in it and freak out or 388 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 2: join the tantrum, but it is to be the container 389 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 2: and to help calm and regulate the child through that experience, 390 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 2: to be the safe place, the landing place for this 391 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 2: emotional experience to exist, and through that the child learns 392 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 2: how to regulate through the experience. 393 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: What I also would want to add too that when 394 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: we are looking at like a child's response to certain things, 395 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: it's really helpful if you have a response that's appropriate, 396 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,479 Speaker 1: like let's say you got hurt in your crying, you 397 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: can help regulate and bring them back down to a 398 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: place where they realize that they're literally not dying. But 399 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: also I'm validating that, like, oh, that looks like it 400 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: really hurt, and I get it while you're crying, but 401 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 1: you're not saying it in a chaotic way. You're present 402 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,959 Speaker 1: with them, so they know that they're safe and they're okay. 403 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: I think that's really important because something we also learn 404 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: through our experiences with our parents is and it kind 405 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: of goes back to like the need to have needs. 406 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: It's like we learn if we're allowed to respond to 407 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: things that happen like Also, we have to keep in 408 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: mind as a child, things are going to be bigger 409 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: that as an adult they might just not be. But 410 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: as an adult we have to remind ourselves that makes 411 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: sense for a child. It wouldn't make sense for an 412 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: adult to respond that way, maybe maybe telling out what 413 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: it is. But as a child, I need to make 414 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: sure that I am remembering that they am They are 415 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: a child, This is a baby. This is a person 416 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: that doesn't know certain things. And so when some things 417 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: happen and you're like, wow, that was dramatic, it's like 418 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 1: not for that person who doesn't have all the information 419 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: in their head about life and about experiences and about 420 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: injuries and about feelings, that can understand and have the 421 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: forethought and the logic to know that the story about 422 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: this feeling or that this experience might not be true. 423 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: I might have said that in a chaotic way, yeah, 424 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: as we're talking about regulating, But I just think it's important. 425 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: As we're talking about when you gave that example, is 426 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: like the kids throwing a tantrum, that it could be 427 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: like the kid lost a balloon. That could feel like 428 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: the end of the world to that kid. And so 429 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: for the parent to regulate, it's not regulating by saying 430 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: it's not that big of a deal. That's not helpful, yeah. 431 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 3: Or is it to say we'll get you another one, right, 432 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 3: It's like, oh. 433 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 1: You lost your balloon. 434 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really hard. 435 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. I had a friend, one of my best friends, 436 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: she came and visited, and I don't remember I think 437 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: she has had one kid at that point, but we 438 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: were driving in the car. This was years ago because 439 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: she has three kids now, and I remember her kid 440 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: had a balloon, but it went to the back of 441 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 1: the car. So he was so distraught, and I was 442 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 1: so impressed because I am not a mom still and 443 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: at that point nowhere close to being the mom, and 444 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: she was. She just kept through the tantrum, through the crime. 445 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, I see that it's back there. I 446 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: wish I could get it, and just kind of talking 447 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: him through that, like it's important for us to keep 448 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: our seatbelts on, but it makes a lot of sense 449 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: that you're upset, and that's really tough. And I remember 450 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: just being like listening to her being like, I feel 451 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,239 Speaker 1: okay about the balloon now, Like I felt like I 452 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: was like in it with her, and I think that's 453 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: something maybe we weren't teaching parents. We still maybe don't 454 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: teach it, but like it's like we'll get the balloon later. 455 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: It's like, no, I get that you're really upset because 456 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 1: you can't have your balloon right now. 457 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that the way this shows up 458 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 2: to in adults, if we didn't get that as a child, 459 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 2: is to either learn that, well, hey, we never learned 460 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 2: to regulate our affect or emotions, so relacking in that way, 461 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 2: or maybe we learned that, oh, it's my job to 462 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 2: regulate my parents' affect because when I out upset as 463 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 2: a kid, my parent got upset, and then I learned, oh, 464 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 2: I can stop this if I suit my parent, And 465 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 2: that's where we see like the parentified child coming out. 466 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: It all goes back to the need to have needs 467 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: because we're talking about needs. But also it's like I 468 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: want you guys, as you guys are listening to this, 469 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 1: imagine like what might that lesson look like as an 470 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,719 Speaker 1: adult in my present life if I learned that I 471 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 1: had to regulate other people's experiences, what would that take 472 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: away from me? Now? How would that be stunting me? Now? 473 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: And some of this is like I thought that was 474 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,479 Speaker 1: just normal, Like I thought that that that's what I'm 475 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: supposed to do. I thought that that was my job, 476 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: when the reality is, it's not our job to take 477 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,719 Speaker 1: care of any or manage any other adult's emotional response 478 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: to anything. We can be helpful and we can support people, 479 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: but it's not our job to sacrifice our own experiences 480 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 1: to take care of somebody else unless they are somebody 481 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,239 Speaker 1: that literally cannot take care of themselves and you are 482 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: responsible for them, somebody who is vulnerable, who does not 483 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: have the ability to take care of themselves, And that's 484 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: the only time that it is your actual job to 485 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: sacrifice yourself. That is probably a really tough one to 486 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: shift good news as it can be shifted, because it's 487 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: probably also how you regulated yourself feeling okay if they're okay, 488 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: I'm okay exactly, and I have to be okay for 489 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 1: them to be okay. Yeah. 490 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 2: That brings us nicely into the next one, which is 491 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 2: the need to express negative emotions. So this is where 492 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 2: let's say a child is angry negative thinking of negative 493 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 2: emotions as anything that we wouldn't classify as like happy, 494 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 2: well received emotions, maybe so let's say a child is angry, 495 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 2: I like to. 496 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: Say rather than negative like uncomfortable. 497 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh I like that. Yeah, need to express uncomfortable emotions. 498 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 2: So if child is angry, do they feel safe to 499 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 2: go to their parent with their anger? And I feel 500 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 2: like this really starts to show up in adolescent years 501 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 2: and we definitely carry this into our adulthood if we 502 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 2: feel like these negative or these uncomfortable emotions were not 503 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:15,400 Speaker 2: well received or met with a meaningful response, the message 504 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,679 Speaker 2: or the story we might learn about ourselves is my 505 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 2: uncomfortable emotions disconnect me from the important people in my life. 506 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 2: So I cannot express them because that didn't disconnect me, 507 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 2: it makes me unsafe. And those are again going back 508 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,199 Speaker 2: to need to have needs. Safety and connection is what 509 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 2: we need well. 510 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 1: And it also it signals when you have those because 511 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: you can't help it. Whether we want to believe that 512 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: or not, you can't help the feelings that initially come up. 513 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: So if those are coming up, there's also a lesson 514 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: you learn about what that means about who I am 515 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 1: and what I am. As in, if I am scared 516 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: of something, but I am kind of taught that being 517 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: scared is or embarrassing or weak. Then when I have 518 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 1: those emotions, okay, not only if I share this, people 519 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: are going I'm going to be disconnected. One of the 520 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: reasons I'm going to be disconnected is because people are 521 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: going to think that there's something wrong with me and 522 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: I'm weak and that's embarrassing. So I can't let anybody 523 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: know this. And so what's going to happen if I 524 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: shove my initial feeling which appropriate fear is a very 525 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: appropriate emotion to have, and it's important and it's helpful. 526 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: If I'm shoving that down, what then is going to happen? Like? 527 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: What is that fear going to turn into? And one 528 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: of the things that I see the most is that 529 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: fear turns into rage, whether that's passive aggressive rage or 530 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: very loud rage. And I see a lot of people 531 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: who would not consider passive aggressiveness as rage, but it is. 532 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: It's just the way that we've contorted us to be 533 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: able to actually share that. And some passive aggressive rage 534 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 1: looks polite. Yes, it's like the k text message. 535 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 2: The sticky YESMT Yeah were you that person? 536 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: Yes? Do you think I was to share something? Okay, 537 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: go for it. Well, Also, I'm saying this with the 538 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: caveat is at this time, I was very disordered in 539 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 1: my eating. I hadn't even disordered at this point, and 540 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: so a lot of my emotions around food and stuff 541 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: like that, it's my regular emotions that I would have anyway, 542 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,479 Speaker 1: also connected to kind of this control that I was 543 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: trying to have. But when I my senior year, I 544 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: had a lot of passive rest of stuff my senior year. 545 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: And I'm grateful that I still have my friends and 546 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,479 Speaker 1: they were there for me through it all. But I 547 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: came home one day from class in college and one 548 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: of my roommates at the time was cooking. I don't 549 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: remember if it was a hamburger or a steak, because 550 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: I had I think my mom had this like delivery 551 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: service of like meat back then, and so when she 552 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: would come in town, she would like stock my freezer, 553 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: and so I had all that stuff in there that 554 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: I actually couldn't afford, like as a college student. And 555 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: I came home and she was cooking something of mine, 556 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: and I was pissed. But you know what, I didn't 557 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: do share with her that I felt angry that she 558 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 1: ate my food without asking. Instead, I bought a miniature fridge. 559 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 1: Oh put it in my room. Oh my god, put 560 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: all my food in my room. 561 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 3: You bought and maniasu fridge. 562 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: I know I didn't buy. Either my parents bought it 563 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: or my parents brought it to me or for something. 564 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: All my food I kept in my room. And looking back, 565 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 1: I'm like, I bet everybody who came over was like, 566 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 1: this is weird. 567 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 3: That's amazing, this is weird. 568 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: I was rageful and I was passive aggressive, and I 569 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: wasn't kind to her, and I was like, what I 570 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: could have just been like, you know, I feel angry 571 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: that you just took my food and ate it without asking. 572 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: I actually can't afford to continue to bout whatever, you know, 573 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:50,959 Speaker 1: do the whole intentional dialogue. But I didn't do that. 574 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: And that was rage. That was me raging, but in 575 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: a very in a way that I thought was appropriate 576 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: because I wasn't screaming, I wasn't yelling, and I wasn't 577 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: causing any drama. But I was causing drama because you know, 578 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: all of our roommates were probably talking about it behind 579 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: my back, So I was causing drama and fig we're 580 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: getting off topic, because what is the thing we're even 581 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: talking about? 582 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 2: Right, well, the need to express uncomfortable okay, negative emotions 583 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 2: and you did it, yes. 584 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: Okay, yes, And I think that also comes like that 585 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: was probably a behavior that was not the first time 586 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: I ever did that. That's how I learned to deal 587 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: with stuff like that because of what I knew about emotions. 588 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: And I think that's like way more common than especially 589 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: probably in the generation that less probably now the generations 590 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: before the current one, it was typical to sweep feelings 591 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: under the rug like that was typical in a lot 592 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: of families growing up. And I say that to give 593 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: myself some grace and give also my family some grace, 594 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: because I'm sure that came from their family. But it 595 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: is important to be able to sit with a kid 596 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: and one I can express emotions in a way that 597 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: can Now as a parent, I can't just like yell 598 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: at my child for no reason except them to deal 599 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: with it, because they also don't know how. We're also 600 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: teaching them to regulate. But I have to be able 601 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: to sit there and say like, hey, how are you feeling, 602 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: and when they say, it really pissed me off when 603 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: you made me clean my room before the cleaning lady comes. 604 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: Because that doesn't make sense to me, which was a 605 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: common thought of my head, instead of a parent being like, 606 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: I don't remember what my mom would say to that, 607 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: but instead of a parent being like, well, you just 608 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: need to get over it, like you should be grateful 609 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: that we even have ada dah dah dah dah. It's 610 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: you know, tell me more about that kind of get it. 611 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: It is kind of strange, and I'm here with you 612 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: in that versus you should be grateful. Mm hmm. 613 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 2: It's dignifying of their experience. Yeah, okay, But on a 614 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 2: side note, we have like a listener episode where we 615 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 2: hear what people I want to hear people's mini fridge 616 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 2: experiences because I think we all have those. We've all 617 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 2: found to get bypass an uncomfortable conversation. 618 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and like that's a funny example. And I know 619 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: I still can be passive aggressive, right, I'm probably not 620 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: going to that extreme, but I've totally used the K text, 621 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: and I'm most of the time probably now doing it 622 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: because i want somebody to know something like I'm actually 623 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: wanting connection, but I'm like turning my back so you 624 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: can kind of like chase it down versus just sharing 625 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: and expressing a feeling and a need. But again that 626 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: comes from that place as my rooted experience still was 627 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: don't do that. Yeah, so if I do it in 628 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: a way that I can be like, I wasn't mad. Yeah, 629 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: you interpreted my k that way. I wasn't mad. Yeah, 630 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: so I have a way to get out of it 631 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: versus like if I just say like, I felt really 632 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: angry when you did that, I can't say why I 633 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: never said that, because I did say that. Yeah, you know, 634 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: so that would be really interesting if you guys emailed, 635 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: like what are some experiences where you maybe were passive aggressive? 636 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: And maybe you can do some introspection too to share, 637 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: like how might that actually have been some misplaced rage 638 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: which could have been fear. Most of the time it 639 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: is fear, like I think if we look at my 640 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: mini fridge thing, it was fear like if I don't 641 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: if you eat my food, I'm not going to have 642 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: these things to eat, and I regimend everything. It was 643 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: not about if I really needed money, I could have 644 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: probably asked my mom. Yeah I know I said that earlier, 645 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: like I can't afford I couldn't. But if I really 646 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: needed I knew I wasn't going to go hungry. It 647 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: was that I have a very specific plan of what 648 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: I eat, when I eat, how I eat it, and 649 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: you mess with that and now I'm terrified. So I 650 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: have to be safe. Now I have to put the 651 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: fridge in my room so you have access to it, 652 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: and I lock my bedroom when I leave. Yeah, I 653 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: think I did that. Did I do that too? That 654 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: is extra? Yeah? Yeah, it's okay, thank you. Yeah. I 655 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: don't think my roommates are listening to this, but I 656 00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: do know one friend that's listening to this that's probably 657 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: gonna be like, yeah, I remember the fridge in your room, 658 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: and I really wanted to say something that I didn't, 659 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: and that's okay. Yeah. Do you have a story like 660 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: that that you also would want to share it? 661 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,239 Speaker 3: Oh my god. Yeah, I don't think I have one 662 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 3: that I can share. 663 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: We'll talk about it later, talking about it later, But yeah, 664 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: I think that's a good idea if you have an 665 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: experience where like you were trying to push another feeling 666 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: away because you felt it was not appropriate to feel 667 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: or would rupture your ability to have any kind of connection. 668 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: Which the funny story about this, I'm interrupting my own thought. 669 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: They only thought about the story. One of the funny 670 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: parts be being passive aggressive and not sharing my actual 671 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: feeling didn't keep me safe from connection. It actually pulled 672 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: me farther away because one I was causing drama. I'm 673 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: sure people were talking about me. I'm sure I would 674 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: have been talking about somebody who did that. And also 675 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: I was resenting that girl and she probably was resenting me, 676 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: so it backfired. Yeah, whether or not I wanted to 677 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: admit that, I can a minute now. So yeah, share 678 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: with us those stories if you want to. We can 679 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: read them for our couch talks. That would be interesting 680 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,839 Speaker 1: and not to like shame us. Yeah, to know that, like, 681 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: this is something we all did and we can look 682 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: back and have grace for ourselves and laugh about the 683 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: things that we didn't know we were doing. Yeah, therefore 684 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: I don't have to keep continuing to do that, all right? 685 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 3: Number six? 686 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 1: All right? 687 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 3: Number six. Willingness to repair. 688 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 2: So the need to have repair in our relationships, especially 689 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 2: with our parents. So parents are not going to get 690 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 2: it right one hundred percent of the time. We know 691 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 2: this something that Adam Young had shared in one of 692 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 2: the podcasts on this he did as a study that said, 693 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 2: you only have to parents only have to get it 694 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 2: right fifty percent of the time. That feels like a 695 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 2: very freeing statistic. And more importantly than getting it right 696 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 2: is being willing to repair when you get it wrong, 697 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 2: because that shows, Okay, when things go wrong, I'm not 698 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 2: going to be permanently disconnected from you. I know that 699 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 2: we can come back together, we can talk about it. 700 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,279 Speaker 2: There's ownership, especially when the parent models ownership of doing 701 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,320 Speaker 2: something wrong, not understanding, not being there in the experience 702 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 2: with them being responsive. That is also going to help 703 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 2: the child learn how to do that themselves, and then 704 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 2: also to not be afraid of conflict or having a 705 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 2: repairing conversation in adult relationships down the road. I think 706 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,879 Speaker 2: that's a lot of the couple's work that we see 707 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 2: now is like, how do we learn how to have repair, 708 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,800 Speaker 2: meaningful repair and come back together and repair. 709 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 1: Isn't we act like it never happened and we just 710 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: move on. 711 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 2: No, it's talking about exactly what happened and owning it 712 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 2: and understanding. 713 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,399 Speaker 1: I'm sure you talk about this all the time in 714 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: sessions with clients, that it is good to have rupture 715 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: in relationships. That is something that we want because it 716 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 1: shows our humanness. Right, if we're not having ruptured that 717 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: is confusing because how are we that perfect? And what 718 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: are we abandoning in order to maintain that perfection? And 719 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,280 Speaker 1: so if as a child we are shown and modeled 720 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: perfection in that like whether we don't see that in 721 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 1: our parents' relationships and if they're like we're perfect, like 722 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: we never do anything wrong, or if they are never 723 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 1: allowed to do anything wrong within the child parent relationship, 724 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,879 Speaker 1: that is very confusing, and it I think robs us 725 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: from the reality and the ability to actually show up 726 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,360 Speaker 1: as human beings. And human beings just show up as imperfect. 727 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: And if there are two imperfect people in a relationship, 728 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,399 Speaker 1: guess what's gonna happen. You're gonna have some rupture, You're 729 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,879 Speaker 1: gonna have disagreement. Stuff is going to happen. So when 730 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: that's happening in our relationships in adults, whether it's friendships 731 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: or partners or work relationships, it is such a fruitful experience. 732 00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: It might be very uncomfortable, but it is necessary in 733 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: order to feel safe with somebody, to feel really connected 734 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: with somebody, I have to be able to be a 735 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: human with you. Yeah, So if I have to be 736 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: perfect with you. Then I'm never actually going to get 737 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: a real, authentic, meaningful connection with you because I won't 738 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: be able to essentially relax in the relationship and trust. 739 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: Right m h. So if we don't have trust in 740 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 1: a relationship, if I don't know that I can mess 741 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: up and you won't leave me, that's not connection. That 742 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: is us bidding for connection maybe, but that's not us 743 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: being connected. Yeah, so you might have already said this, 744 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 1: but as a child, can you share some examples of 745 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 1: what that might look like and what it might look 746 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: like if we didn't get it. I might have just 747 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: already said that, but I just want to be kind 748 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: of clear. 749 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 2: I think that it would look like a parent responding 750 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 2: in a way that didn't meet the child's need. Maybe 751 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 2: it was a dismissive response, or the parent is stressed 752 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 2: and they just brush over it, or they get frazz 753 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 2: a little and say something hurtful to the child when 754 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 2: the child is having a strong emotion or having a 755 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 2: hard day or anything like that. And so that might 756 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 2: create something in the child to draw farther away from 757 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 2: their parent, to disconnect, to withdraw, or maybe to have 758 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 2: an outburst, depending on the kid and Hopefully at some 759 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 2: point the parent recognizes, oh, I didn't respond well, and 760 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 2: maybe that's not right away. That could be like a 761 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 2: day later or later that evening and they come back 762 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 2: to the kid and they're like, hey, can we talk 763 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,800 Speaker 2: about that. I don't think that I responded in the 764 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 2: way I needed to. I'm sorry. Tell me about what 765 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 2: you were experiencing. How can I do better next time? 766 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 2: How can I be more responsive, be more in touch 767 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,239 Speaker 2: with you next time. That's like big language for if 768 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 2: we're talking about like a five year old, that's going 769 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 2: to look different, but it's coming back to reconnect when 770 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 2: a response was dismissive or not maybe you know, creating 771 00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:58,720 Speaker 2: a wound, a deeper wound. 772 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, what I I think. Also, this is modeled a 773 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: lot in This can be modeled a lot in the 774 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: therapeutic relationship too. And I have a very I try 775 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,359 Speaker 1: to have a pretty specific conversation in the beginning with 776 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: a new client about like, I want you to know 777 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 1: that I am going to probably mess up. I'm a 778 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: human and so I'm going to say things or I'm 779 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: going to do things, or there might just might be 780 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: things that happen, and I want you to be able 781 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 1: to talk about that with me. I want you to 782 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 1: know that I'm open to that feedback just as much 783 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,880 Speaker 1: as I would give you feedback if you did something. 784 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,120 Speaker 1: I had one client more recently recently, it was like, Okay, 785 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: I probably won't say anything that would be me and 786 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 1: maybe in the future I will. But because I don't 787 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 1: know what I asked, but they just were like, yeah, 788 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 1: that sounds really awesome, I probably won't tell you. I 789 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: was like, okay, well, then that's That's part of the 790 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: work that we're going to do, is that if I 791 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 1: noticed that I do something, we can have a conversation 792 00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,040 Speaker 1: about what would you need in order for you to 793 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: be able to come and say like, yeah, that did 794 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:07,880 Speaker 1: hurt versus, and I do appreciate you apologizing or whatever. Versus. Oh, 795 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 1: it's not that big of a deal. I was fine, No, 796 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,800 Speaker 1: you didn't do that. I'm allowed to not be perfect 797 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: and you don't have to manage my feelings about me 798 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 1: being perfect. Yes. The other thing that came up when 799 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,839 Speaker 1: you were talking about this is because this can be 800 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: I think when we hear rupture and repair, we think 801 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,120 Speaker 1: really big too, just like when we think about like anger, 802 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: we think really bang. We think rage. We think like you're, 803 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 1: you know, throwing something through a window versus like sending 804 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 1: the key text. Sometimes this can be really small too, 805 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: and that can be just as meaningful. So the other day, 806 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 1: something happened in the office and we were all kind 807 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,840 Speaker 1: of frazzled, and I was not managing what was going 808 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,319 Speaker 1: on in the moment really well because I was trying to. Like, 809 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:53,440 Speaker 1: I had a client and then something had happened with specifically. 810 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 3: Julia, and. 811 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,320 Speaker 1: I kind of just looked at Julia, looked at you 812 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: and was like, can you go handle this. I don't 813 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: know if I said exactly that way, but I just 814 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 1: I said it like that. And then I went into 815 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: my office with my client and I was sitting there 816 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, my goodness, gracious, I just 817 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: asked her to do something that was not really safe 818 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,760 Speaker 1: thing to do. So I had to say to my client. 819 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, okay, I am so sorry. I 820 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: want to be present with you. I can't be present 821 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 1: with you right now because I'm thinking about the safety 822 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,319 Speaker 1: of somebody else. I need to go check on something. 823 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,800 Speaker 1: I'll be right back. And so I went out and 824 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,719 Speaker 1: I saw you and I said, I am so sorry. 825 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: I should not have asked you to do that. And 826 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 1: then I also had to you know, kind of the 827 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: thing with my client too. It's like, well, she got 828 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,840 Speaker 1: kind of left there and I had to say to 829 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: her like, I'm so sorry that I had to leave 830 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,160 Speaker 1: and come back. That was disruptive. I did not handle 831 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 1: that initial interaction appropriately. I'm sorry, And I think my 832 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,279 Speaker 1: client really was like, oh, this is weird. But like, 833 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,480 Speaker 1: I don't know that she was mad at me, but 834 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: she's probably she might have felt something. And I don't 835 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 1: know if you were mad, you can share that, but 836 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 1: there probably was something like oh, there could be some 837 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 1: fear something. And I'm sharing that because I want to 838 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 1: reiterate and just you know, nail down the idea that 839 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,879 Speaker 1: sometimes it isn't a big, huge issue, but it can 840 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,279 Speaker 1: feel really nice to know that it doesn't have to 841 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,240 Speaker 1: be a big issue for somebody to have done something 842 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 1: that wasn't appropriate. 843 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:25,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, that repaired took like thirty seconds. 844 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, great about it. After I was okay, cares for me, 845 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 2: she sees me. 846 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 1: Okay, perfect, I was going to ask, like, what does that, Oh, 847 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,920 Speaker 1: if we if a lot of those little things were happening, 848 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 1: that's continuing to like send the message that oh, this 849 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:43,399 Speaker 1: person actually cares about how I'm feeling and how she's 850 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 1: affecting my space in this space. Yeah, I'm curious from 851 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 1: your perspective too, is when that isn't a need that 852 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 1: is met as a child, how does that affect my relationships? 853 00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:00,719 Speaker 1: When somebody does do something unkind or hurtful or makes 854 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,839 Speaker 1: just messes up. How do you see that showing up 855 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:04,840 Speaker 1: with those people. 856 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,319 Speaker 2: I've seen it a couple of ways. I see it 857 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 2: either as the person internalizes the blame, so like, oh, 858 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,400 Speaker 2: it must have been something I did, This is my fault, 859 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 2: so they take whatever the other person did internalize it. 860 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,839 Speaker 2: I've seen it as like a fear of conflict because 861 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,279 Speaker 2: they haven't learned how to have a healthy conflict discussion. 862 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:32,959 Speaker 2: Or I've seen it as like isolation because they never 863 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:37,920 Speaker 2: get that reconnection, that ability to come back together. And 864 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 2: so maybe it becomes this belief that like, well it's 865 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 2: hard to trust people. They just are gonna hurt me 866 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,160 Speaker 2: and there's no repair, or there's. 867 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:45,480 Speaker 1: They're gonna hurt me and they're gonna leave. 868 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're gonna hurt me, They're gonna leave. They're not 869 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 3: gonna own up to it. 870 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there can be some like reenactment of that too, 871 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,040 Speaker 1: like the self sabotage, because it's like something that's been 872 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,799 Speaker 1: modeled to you, and so that might be what you 873 00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,480 Speaker 1: end up probably subconsciously doing. Is maybe in your adult life, 874 00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 1: somebody wants to repair, but you don't. You are not 875 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,920 Speaker 1: open to that because you don't think that that's a 876 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:09,440 Speaker 1: thing that really happens, and you're trying to protect yourself. Okay, 877 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 1: so let's go to around seven. Okay, all right. 878 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 2: Number seven is the need to separate and have boundaries. 879 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,000 Speaker 2: So we're going to see this both. Yeah, it's like 880 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:23,799 Speaker 2: a young child but also I think about it in 881 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 2: adolescence too, but the need to be able to develop 882 00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:32,080 Speaker 2: independence and step out of our parents' safety circle. So 883 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,400 Speaker 2: safe to go out, safe to come back is what 884 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,719 Speaker 2: I think about, Like, I'm safe to go explore and 885 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 2: find myself, trying new things, make my own mistakes, and 886 00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,960 Speaker 2: I'm also safe to come back to you. 887 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,520 Speaker 3: Just because I. 888 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:49,960 Speaker 2: Am differentiating and finding my own way doesn't mean that 889 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:51,680 Speaker 2: I'm now cut off from you. 890 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 3: I can come back to you. 891 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,239 Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know why this is what came to me, 892 00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,759 Speaker 1: but I am thinking like I can move out and 893 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,680 Speaker 1: if I need my TV mounted, I can still call 894 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,840 Speaker 1: my dad. Yeah, you know I love that well. And 895 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: how is that modeled as from because that's an adult example, right, 896 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,800 Speaker 1: But I know that to be true because that was 897 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,239 Speaker 1: the need that maybe was met in my childhood. So 898 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:18,640 Speaker 1: what does that look like specifically like a child being 899 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:19,719 Speaker 1: able to go and come back? 900 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 2: I think about it at the park and seeing a 901 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,400 Speaker 2: child start to explore and move away from me. I 902 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,000 Speaker 2: think about this like when I nannied following natural curiosity 903 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,520 Speaker 2: going out to explore something new and try something new. 904 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:35,440 Speaker 3: And what is my response? 905 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,640 Speaker 2: Am I saying no, no, no, like stay by me, 906 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,480 Speaker 2: that's not safe? Am I encroaching too much, putting up 907 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,640 Speaker 2: so much safety barriers around and like literally you know, 908 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,720 Speaker 2: catching every fall that they're not even able to really 909 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:54,880 Speaker 2: experience anything and learn. Or am I standing nearby witnessing 910 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:59,239 Speaker 2: and watching and there to respond if something happens but 911 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,320 Speaker 2: I making a I mean this is like all within reason. 912 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,000 Speaker 2: I like, didn't let my nanny kid do extreme. 913 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:06,680 Speaker 1: Jump out of a tree? 914 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly as a two year old, but I was 915 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,520 Speaker 2: there if he needed to come back to me. But 916 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,520 Speaker 2: he was also safe to go explore in the safety 917 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,080 Speaker 2: of the park because that was his role as a 918 00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:19,360 Speaker 2: two year old to learn the world. 919 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and like you could go sit on the bench 920 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,240 Speaker 1: and the kid could. I mean it might be different 921 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,360 Speaker 1: as the child ages, the boundaries are going to be 922 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,279 Speaker 1: a little bit different. But what I'm seeing in my 923 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,839 Speaker 1: head is like at recess, our teachers weren't just like 924 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,360 Speaker 1: hovering over us. They were usually sitting on a bench 925 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:38,839 Speaker 1: and watching us play, and if we needed something, they 926 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,480 Speaker 1: would like run over and be there, or sometimes they 927 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:43,880 Speaker 1: would play again with us if we asked them to. 928 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:49,880 Speaker 1: But there wasn't that like helicoptery experience. And as you 929 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,560 Speaker 1: got older that looked differently, Like maybe when you're in 930 00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:54,880 Speaker 1: middle school and you have like we'd have recess, we 931 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,120 Speaker 1: had break, but maybe the two shirts were a little 932 00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,880 Speaker 1: farther away, or that's a I like that park example. 933 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,759 Speaker 1: I'm also getting and let me know if this does 934 00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,480 Speaker 1: not fit. But I'm also thinking about like as we 935 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,440 Speaker 1: continue to get older, our parents letting us like go 936 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,800 Speaker 1: to the mall with a friend, or maybe we're allowed 937 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,359 Speaker 1: to go to a sleepover. And I'm not a parent, 938 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:21,000 Speaker 1: and I totally get how, especially these days, you might 939 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,239 Speaker 1: not want to just let your kid go sleep over 940 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,360 Speaker 1: a random stranger's house. I totally understand that. But allowing 941 00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:31,560 Speaker 1: them to have more freedom away from you to develop 942 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:36,440 Speaker 1: their own social skills and that sends them the signal 943 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,479 Speaker 1: of safety. If I'm never allowed to do anything because 944 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,360 Speaker 1: the world's unsafe, I'm going to go out into the 945 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 1: world thinking that everything's unsafe. And yes, the world is 946 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,880 Speaker 1: not safe and it's imperfect, and we can allow freedom 947 00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,240 Speaker 1: within reason. Yes, right, you're not, you know, letting your 948 00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,000 Speaker 1: ten year old stay the weekend by themselves at the 949 00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,279 Speaker 1: house while you go on vacation with your friends. Right, 950 00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,200 Speaker 1: but you might let your ten year old stay at 951 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,400 Speaker 1: a friend's house when you go on this trip, a 952 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,520 Speaker 1: friend that you know and you know the parents and 953 00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,680 Speaker 1: that you trust, but you let them be away from you. Yes, 954 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,800 Speaker 1: it's also like when you think about like because I 955 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,640 Speaker 1: feel like I keep giving examples of kids older in 956 00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,440 Speaker 1: an adulthood, but also I'm thinking about along with the 957 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:21,240 Speaker 1: playground example, even as like an infant or a baby 958 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,400 Speaker 1: is you might allow them to develop the ability of 959 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,560 Speaker 1: self soothe and you don't always have to be the 960 00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:31,759 Speaker 1: person that's doing everything for them, and they're allowed to be. Again, 961 00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,680 Speaker 1: it's within reason. They're allowed to be distressed. Within reason, 962 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,040 Speaker 1: they're allowed to develop the skills to maybe like learn 963 00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,200 Speaker 1: that like, oh they can. Again, I'm not a parent, 964 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,839 Speaker 1: so I'm not giving you like soothing skills for your 965 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:45,960 Speaker 1: child right now, but like learning that they can like 966 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,640 Speaker 1: suck their thumb, or that they can have this toy 967 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,640 Speaker 1: or this thing that they realize, Oh that's there, I 968 00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,320 Speaker 1: actually can be okay if my mom is a distance 969 00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,680 Speaker 1: to me, if I have this thing. That's when you're 970 00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,520 Speaker 1: learning it like early early on. 971 00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:04,040 Speaker 2: Ye reminds you like to start our stages of development. Yeah, 972 00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,880 Speaker 2: and the necessary things we need. We need to have 973 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,839 Speaker 2: space to fall down on our butt to learn how 974 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,719 Speaker 2: to walk, you know, so if someone was holding our 975 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:14,239 Speaker 2: hand the whole time, we would never learn how to 976 00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:15,359 Speaker 2: walk on our own. 977 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:15,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. 978 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,440 Speaker 3: So yeah, having that separateness to grow. 979 00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:19,919 Speaker 1: Okay, we're at the last one. 980 00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're at the last one. So this is number eight. 981 00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:29,440 Speaker 2: Need to speak your truth. This definitely shows up probably 982 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:31,560 Speaker 2: more in the adolescent stage. 983 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,040 Speaker 3: But I mean, I don't know, I could see. 984 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:36,719 Speaker 1: Well adolescent stage, I might not be speaking my truth 985 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:37,719 Speaker 1: because I don't want to talk to you. 986 00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:41,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. I'm speaking my truth in a very indirect way. 987 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,360 Speaker 2: But yeah, this is the idea that when we start 988 00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:50,040 Speaker 2: to again out of that ability to separate and develop 989 00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,839 Speaker 2: and differentiate into our own person, into our own identity, 990 00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:58,360 Speaker 2: can we start to share about what we're what beliefs 991 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:02,239 Speaker 2: were cultivating. Is it safe to share our perspective? Can 992 00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,000 Speaker 2: we disagree? Is it safe to disagree at the dinner table? 993 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,440 Speaker 2: And to say why are we invited to do that? 994 00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:12,160 Speaker 2: Are we shunned if we oppose what our parents say? 995 00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:17,839 Speaker 2: Or are we invited to share our perspective? And the 996 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,960 Speaker 2: wound that can come out of this is if I 997 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,680 Speaker 2: feel like I can't speak my truth, then maybe my 998 00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,840 Speaker 2: voice doesn't matter. Maybe I don't matter and my feelings 999 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,080 Speaker 2: don't matter. And so that's kind of what can develop 1000 00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,399 Speaker 2: out of this if we don't have this need met. 1001 00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,840 Speaker 1: I also wonder if there's a lot of people pleasing 1002 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,760 Speaker 1: that comes out of that too, Like if I can't 1003 00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,360 Speaker 1: disagree with you, I'm just going to agree with you, 1004 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,880 Speaker 1: and then I might not even actually allow myself to 1005 00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,080 Speaker 1: develop more of this, like thinking for myself, I might 1006 00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,640 Speaker 1: not know what I believe because in order for me 1007 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:54,239 Speaker 1: to maintain safety and security throughout my life. I had 1008 00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:56,080 Speaker 1: to just my brain doesn't matter, so I'm just not 1009 00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:57,560 Speaker 1: going to use it in that way and not going 1010 00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:02,000 Speaker 1: to develop those critical thinking skills. And it really, as 1011 00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,680 Speaker 1: I'm saying, this has the potential to stunt us in 1012 00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:09,000 Speaker 1: so many ways because I allow other people to essentially 1013 00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,799 Speaker 1: make decisions for myself. So I'm then not I mean 1014 00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,480 Speaker 1: I see that coming out in our jobs and everything, 1015 00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,279 Speaker 1: Like I don't have this forethought because again, my voice 1016 00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:19,719 Speaker 1: doesn't matter, So what do I know? Yeah, I mean 1017 00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,440 Speaker 1: there's so many ways that we could talk about that 1018 00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:24,520 Speaker 1: need I think just for an hour itself. 1019 00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:25,320 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. 1020 00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I imagine that's also a really hard one. 1021 00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,000 Speaker 1: I want to like offer a little bit of a 1022 00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:34,560 Speaker 1: compassion for the caregivers in this one too, because it 1023 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,520 Speaker 1: probably is scary when there's something that you fully believe 1024 00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:42,520 Speaker 1: to be true and you feel very strong about if 1025 00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:47,799 Speaker 1: your child does not align with that, yeah, there could 1026 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:49,879 Speaker 1: only be fear. That makes total sense. So I get 1027 00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,759 Speaker 1: that that would be very hard, and I imagine some 1028 00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:58,040 Speaker 1: of that comes from maybe they experienced something similar too, right, 1029 00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:01,680 Speaker 1: And so it's our job as caregivers and parents and 1030 00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,840 Speaker 1: adults and those relationships to work on how we manage 1031 00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,960 Speaker 1: our feelings about that versus Again, it goes back to 1032 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,400 Speaker 1: the child is then managing our feelings? Yeah, exactly, So 1033 00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,360 Speaker 1: could you say all of them one more time? Just 1034 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:15,640 Speaker 1: run through them the list? 1035 00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:20,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, number one, the need to be number two, the 1036 00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:24,960 Speaker 2: need to have needs number three, The need to have 1037 00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:30,840 Speaker 2: attunement and responsiveness from key caregivers number four, the need 1038 00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:36,400 Speaker 2: for support in regulating affect number five, the need to 1039 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:42,799 Speaker 2: express negative or uncomfortable emotions number six, the need to 1040 00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,840 Speaker 2: receive repair or the willingness to have repair number seven, 1041 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:51,239 Speaker 2: the need for separateness and boundaries, and number eight the 1042 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:52,520 Speaker 2: need to speak your truth. 1043 00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:56,279 Speaker 1: Okay, well, Julia, thank you for coming on talking about 1044 00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:58,480 Speaker 1: those with us. I thought that this was going to 1045 00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:02,040 Speaker 1: take like ten minutes and it didn't because I had 1046 00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:06,120 Speaker 1: to talk about my freeing fridge in college. Okay, so good. 1047 00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:10,200 Speaker 1: I hope that this was helpful. If you have any questions, comments, feedback, anything, 1048 00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:12,560 Speaker 1: you can send that to me. Catherinet. You need therapy 1049 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,880 Speaker 1: podcast dot com. If you want to connect with Julia, 1050 00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,160 Speaker 1: you can do that. A couple ways you can find 1051 00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,400 Speaker 1: her at through their Three Quarts Therapy website. You also 1052 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,920 Speaker 1: can follow her on Instagram. I'll link her handle in 1053 00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,799 Speaker 1: the show notes, but it's the self compassion counselor. And 1054 00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:30,920 Speaker 1: I also want to add if you are like, oh, 1055 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,200 Speaker 1: I want I want to work with Julia, we can 1056 00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,680 Speaker 1: only work with people that live in our state due 1057 00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:39,960 Speaker 1: to our license. So if you are looking to work 1058 00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,920 Speaker 1: with her as a as a therapist, just know that 1059 00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:44,480 Speaker 1: if you're reaching out to her, you're going to have 1060 00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,879 Speaker 1: to live in Tennessee for that to be a thing 1061 00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,080 Speaker 1: that can be worked out. But yeah, if you kept 1062 00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,000 Speaker 1: questions for her, you can send her messages through Instagram 1063 00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,239 Speaker 1: as well. You can follow the podcast at You Need 1064 00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,160 Speaker 1: Therapy podcast. You can follow me at Kat dot defada 1065 00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:00,520 Speaker 1: and I will be back with you guys on Wednesday 1066 00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:02,880 Speaker 1: for couch talks. Until then, I hope you have the 1067 00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:03,719 Speaker 1: day you need to have