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Speaker 1: I am not a white person, I am not a mestizo.

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Speaker 1: A'macholo from Futuro media.

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Speaker 2: It's Latino Usa. I'm Maria no josa. Today we're digging

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Speaker 2: into the meaning of the term cholo, how it's being reclaimed,

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Speaker 2: and how it's violent history still plagues those who use it.

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Speaker 2: In the United States, the mere utterance of the word

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Speaker 2: cholo invokes images of gang members, low writers, and tattoos.

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Speaker 2: But in South America, where many of you, dear listeners

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Speaker 2: have roots, the term cholo or cholito can either be

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Speaker 2: a term of endearment or a racial slur used against

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Speaker 2: people of indigenous ancestry. How come one word is used

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Speaker 2: to describe two very different groups of people on opposite

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Speaker 2: sides of the world. Well, it turns out that while

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Speaker 2: contrasting the word cholo in Lima, Peru and the cholo

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Speaker 2: of California, they actually share a common past, the long

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Speaker 2: history of racism and colorism in Latin America that began

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Speaker 2: with the arrival of the Spaniards over five centuries ago,

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Speaker 2: and that has endured all of this time. In many

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Speaker 2: of our home countries and also here in the US.

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Speaker 2: Producer emilsee Kiros Is here to take us on a

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Speaker 2: journey from the streets of California to the andes of

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Speaker 2: Peru to find the roots of an ancient and harmful

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Speaker 2: term that some people are nonetheless reclaiming as an element

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Speaker 2: of pride and identity.

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Speaker 3: Here's Emise, As a Chicana who grew up in southern California,

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Speaker 3: the term cholo meant a very specific thing to me.

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Speaker 3: It meant flannel shirts fastened up to the last button,

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Speaker 3: with khaki pants, writing in a low rider listening to oldies.

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Speaker 3: Cholo culture is such a vibe that it's been appropriated

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Speaker 3: by everyone from superstars like Rihanna to Lana del Rey

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Speaker 3: and even crossed Frontiers which Cholo subculture is popping up

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Speaker 3: in places as far away as Japan, youngest in Thailand,

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Speaker 3: where locals have begun to identify as Cholos, where cholo

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Speaker 3: clothing and love Chicano culture. This is Mona aka Sad Girl.

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Speaker 4: I just want to Fly, I want to be a flow.

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Speaker 3: What one of Japan's foremost Japanese Chicano rappers. You may

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Speaker 3: remember this early two thousands hit song lean Like Acholo

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Speaker 3: by Down aka Kila Shot, or watched movies about cholo

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Speaker 3: culture like blood and blood out three.

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Speaker 4: Vatos locos full of carnal.

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Speaker 3: Or American me, the state is so lame.

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Speaker 5: They paid for the game.

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Speaker 3: But do you know where the word cholo really comes from?

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Speaker 3: And did you know that a cholo in South America

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Speaker 3: is not the same as acholo from the United States.

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Speaker 3: I only recently learned that there were toolos in South

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Speaker 3: America during a conversation with my partner, who's prove An American.

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Speaker 6: So I feel like provins are always really proud, right,

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Speaker 6: and it's like even if you're a cholo, like.

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Speaker 7: At least for me and my wait, what do you mean?

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Speaker 6: Like like my dad was always like, you know, listening

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Speaker 6: to Waino or like speaking.

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Speaker 3: Which I literally didn't, but like was he a gangster?

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Speaker 7: No, he wasn't a gangster.

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Speaker 6: He like like very indigenous, like he wore that poncho

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Speaker 6: and like Thenolo then.

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Speaker 5: It's like indigenous people in Peru.

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Speaker 3: Tolo is like just an indigenous person for you. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: this was the first time I had ever heard the

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Speaker 3: word cholo used to describe someone in a way that

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Speaker 3: didn't mean hood or gangster. I immediately wanted to know

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Speaker 3: if the cholo from Southern California, and if the cholo

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Speaker 3: from South America had the same meaning, and if so,

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Speaker 3: how did they come to mean such vastly different things?

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Speaker 3: Where the word originate? Who was first the trollo of

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Speaker 3: California or the soolo of the Andes. In my search

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Speaker 3: for answers, I reached out to doctor Raquel Chang Rodriguez,

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Speaker 3: a professor in colonial literature at the City University of

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Speaker 3: New York.

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Speaker 7: Its origins are uncertain. Some scholars believe that it comes

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Speaker 7: from the now show load, which was the word for dog.

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Speaker 3: Now what is the language of the assets?

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Speaker 7: But one of the earliest mentioned of the warl appears

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Speaker 7: in Commentarios Realists Royal Compentarists by the Peruvian mestizo writer

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Speaker 7: in Ca Garcilaso de la Vega that work days back

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Speaker 7: to sixteen h nine. He indicates there that the word

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Speaker 7: means dog and it was used in a priorative way

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Speaker 7: by the Spaniards to refer to these individuals of mixed

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Speaker 7: origins African and Indian. But now it is applied differently,

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Speaker 7: is applied to almost anyone that could be of mixed parentage.

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Speaker 3: This was a really good start, but I decided to

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Speaker 3: do a little more digging to see if I could

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Speaker 3: find any earlier mentions of the word, and I did.

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Speaker 3: I found that in fifteen fifty five, a man named

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Speaker 3: Freya Lonso de Molina, living in Mexico, then called Novaspana,

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Speaker 3: wrote a bilingual dictionary of Spanish and Nawat called mccabulario

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Speaker 3: in Linguo Castellana i Mexicana. In this dictionary, the word cholo,

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Speaker 3: spelled with an X, not a ch in Nawat, is

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Speaker 3: directly translated to criallo or esclavo, a servant a slave.

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Speaker 3: Cholos also appeared in the Spanish castas, a series of

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Speaker 3: paintings that date back to the sixteenth century that portrayed

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Speaker 3: the ethnic mixing in the Americas in elaborate detail.

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Speaker 5: Listen to this.

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Speaker 3: The Spanish had a label and a cast for every

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Speaker 3: kind of racial mix there was to be found in

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Speaker 3: the Americas. For example, a person born to a Spanish

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Speaker 3: father and a native mother produced a mestizo, and mestiso

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Speaker 3: sat in the middle of the social latter. At the

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Speaker 3: top were pure blooded Europeans and at the very bottom

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Speaker 3: were black and indigenous people. In this caste system, cholo

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Speaker 3: was a name given to a person who was three

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Speaker 3: quarters Native and a quarter Spanish. For centuries, this is

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Speaker 3: how the word was used both in the United States

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Speaker 3: and in Mexico up until the Chicano Movement of the

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Speaker 3: nineteen sixties and seventies, when Chicano gang members began to

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Speaker 3: reclaim the word and call themselves chorlos.

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Speaker 5: We are a bronze people with a bronze culture.

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Speaker 2: Before the world, before all.

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Speaker 6: Of North America, before all our brothers, the Bronx continents.

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Speaker 2: We are a nation, We are a union, are pre pueblos.

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Speaker 3: We are at plan Today we are exploring the term chorlo,

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Speaker 3: but just really quickly, Chicano, in case you're not familiar

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Speaker 3: with the term, typically refers to people of Mexican descent

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Speaker 3: born in the United States. Chican X identity, as it

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Speaker 3: is often called today, is centered around social justice and

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Speaker 3: indigenous pride. Okay, so back to cholo. After learning about

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Speaker 3: the origin of the term, I wanted to know if

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Speaker 3: Mexican tolo's today still knew the racist history behind this word.

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Speaker 3: So I reached out to Michael Flores, a former gang

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Speaker 3: member turned actor who's pretty much who you'd picture when

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Speaker 3: you think of a Mexican cholo.

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Speaker 5: My name is Michael Flores. I'm an actor, producer, director, creator.

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Speaker 3: Michael identifies as a cholo and doesn't try to hide it.

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Speaker 5: I'm proud to be a chilo. I'm proud to be

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Speaker 5: someone who says, hey, you know what, I grew up

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Speaker 5: that way and this is who I am today, you know.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, I'm proud of it. You know.

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Speaker 3: Michael's from South central Los Angeles. He's six foot two,

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Speaker 3: has a bald head, a go tee, and a body

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Speaker 3: full of tattoos. He's someone that most people would find

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Speaker 3: pretty intimidating, but it's actually a real sweetheart once you

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Speaker 3: get to know him. Yeah, so, Michael, what is being

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Speaker 3: a cholo mean to you?

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Speaker 5: Trolo is a lifestyle. Toto is the way you carry yourself.

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Speaker 5: Being a troll is also territorial. You know, you have

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Speaker 5: territories where you can't go or something could happen. So yeah,

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Speaker 5: I think. And then the pride, you know, walking with pride,

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Speaker 5: walking with your head up, with your body straight, you know,

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Speaker 5: feeling feeling the power you know, of being a troller.

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Speaker 5: Or I go somewhere they know what I am. They're like, damn,

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Speaker 5: look at that trollo. You know what I mean. They're like, oh, shoot,

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Speaker 5: sometimes people move out of the line. I'm like, nah,

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Speaker 5: you can stay in line, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 5: It's cool. I'm not gonna take your wallet or none

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Speaker 5: of that stuff. But you know, those are things that

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Speaker 5: people identify us as, you know, as a thief or

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Speaker 5: someone who beat you up, and I don't even do that,

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean. But that's what the total is.

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Speaker 3: Michael. What does it mean for you then to not

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Speaker 3: just be someone who identifies as a trollo, but to

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Speaker 3: have been a gangster also.

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Speaker 5: Like I made mistakes. I want to prison for eight years,

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean, for being in a gang.

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Speaker 5: You know, I still identify with my hood because that's

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Speaker 5: where I've been from my whole life, you know. So

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Speaker 5: I'm not active anything like that, but you know, I

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Speaker 5: still have it all over my body, you know. And

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Speaker 5: there's times where I'm filming something and someone will walk

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Speaker 5: up with me with a gun and I'm not paying

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Speaker 5: attention real life. Cocked the gun in front of me,

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Speaker 5: put it in my chest and be like where the

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Speaker 5: fuck are you from? And I'm like like, hey man,

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Speaker 5: I'm filming a movie. It doesn't matter how old I am.

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Speaker 5: It doesn't matter. I'm in someone else's neighborhood. I'm in

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Speaker 5: a violation. I need to tell those guys, hey, you

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Speaker 5: know what. I'm here.

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Speaker 3: As an actor, many of the roles Michael has played

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Speaker 3: have either been an inmate or a villain or something

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Speaker 3: along those lines. So I asked him what he thought

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Speaker 3: those roles say about Torlos.

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Speaker 5: I'm always hired to be a prisoner. I'm always hired

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Speaker 5: to be a gunman. All these things that I would

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Speaker 5: never do, but that I'm hired to do, you know,

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Speaker 5: or written for me or but what I'm also doing

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Speaker 5: is creating movies with trollos, like comedies like Central Clause.

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Speaker 5: I just created Central Clause. You know. We just have

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Speaker 5: to change the way people think of us. I want

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Speaker 5: to do funny stuff. I want to give people an

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Speaker 5: opportunity to see that trollos can make you laugh. That's

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Speaker 5: one of our jobs. One of our jobs is to

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Speaker 5: change the way Trollo is used. I think our job

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Speaker 5: is to show them that tolo's aren't bad. I think

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Speaker 5: it's on us to change that, and I think everything

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Speaker 5: that we do to educate people is a step to

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Speaker 5: making Trollo a better word and something to be proud of. Man.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, talking to Michael was really eye opening for me,

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Speaker 3: but it also left me with more questions than I

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Speaker 3: had before. Why are trolo's always associated with gang life

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Speaker 3: and violence? How did the reclamation of this word as

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Speaker 3: a positive thing by Chicanos turn into a word that's

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Speaker 3: become almost synonymous with gang life and criminal activity. To

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Speaker 3: get answers, I spoke with him.

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Speaker 8: My name is al Valdez and currently I'm a professor

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Speaker 8: at the University of California, Irvine, and I teach classes

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Speaker 8: on gangs, prison gangs, the effect of trauma, and the

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Speaker 8: developing brain.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Beldez, when did you start to realize the relationship

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Speaker 3: between the term cholo and Mexican street gang members.

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Speaker 8: I really didn't know this word until I wrote a

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Speaker 8: book where the Mexican Mafia drop out Renee Boxer and Ricez.

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Speaker 8: He indoctrinated me into the ways of the Mexican mafia

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Speaker 8: prison gang culture. He also trained me in the other

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Speaker 8: three major prison gangs in California and in theme.

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Speaker 3: Theme stands for the Mexican mafia.

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Speaker 8: They understand and look at the Aztec culture. They consider

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Speaker 8: themselves sort of Aztec warriors, and when I was getting

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Speaker 8: my history lessons from him, that's soon I heard the

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Speaker 8: word cholo and I saw it. We have the fire

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Speaker 8: god and the word for dog in the Aztec culture

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Speaker 8: that's abbreviated asololo.

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Speaker 3: The fire god doctor Valdez mentioned is Charlotte xol Otl.

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Speaker 3: He was the god of fire and of the underworld,

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Speaker 3: and the Mexican herost dog cholot Squinty, or simply Cholo,

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Speaker 3: was named after him. Doctor Valdez, Why do you think

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Speaker 3: Mexican gang members call themselves cholos.

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Speaker 8: I think it's a term of endearment, of recognition. Uh,

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Speaker 8: they don't use it in a derogatory way at all.

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Speaker 8: Sometimes Mexicans are called cholo's and that's not in a

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Speaker 8: nice way. And some people who are not of color,

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Speaker 8: the true color, will use the N word to refer

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Speaker 8: to people of color, and they don't mean it in

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Speaker 8: a nice way. But yet in rap songs, in TVs

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Speaker 8: and movies, you see people of color calling each other.

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Speaker 8: The word is a term of endearment, and so I

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Speaker 8: think that's what cholo has come to be used as.

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Speaker 3: Could you explain a little bit because I'm still not

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Speaker 3: understanding how do the gang association start and why do

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Speaker 3: you think that Chicanos who were being called cholos as

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Speaker 3: this racial slur, started to form street gangs.

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Speaker 8: Cholo is one of those words that's always been associated

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Speaker 8: with Latino gangs. I think they begin with an excluded group,

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Speaker 8: and I think whether the exclusion is real or perceive,

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Speaker 8: and you add racism, class distinction, and bias. People form

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Speaker 8: together for protection. It's my opinion that all the street

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Speaker 8: gangs and prison gangs in the United States initially formed

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Speaker 8: for protection and very quickly they turned into criminal organizations

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Speaker 8: because they understand whether that grouping and solidarity they have

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Speaker 8: a power base.

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Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino USA, we talked to another kind

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Speaker 2: of cholo, the Andean one, and look at why Peruvians

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Speaker 2: have a complicated relationship with the term. Stay with us notes, Hey,

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Speaker 2: we're back. And when we left off, we had learned

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Speaker 2: about the centuries old roots of the word colo and

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Speaker 2: heard from a US Cholo from California. Now let's meet

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Speaker 2: Marco Abiles. He's a Peruvian Cholo living in Maine. Here's

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Speaker 2: producer Emil Sekiros.

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Speaker 3: Cholo is a word Mexicans and people in the US

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Speaker 3: have used to label Chicanos that they deemed to be

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Speaker 3: second class citizens, people from the inner city, people from

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Speaker 3: el barrio who had limited resources and were subjected to

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Speaker 3: systemic and state violence. This doesn't sound like a term

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Speaker 3: of endearment that I heard my partner use, but again,

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Speaker 3: I don't really know how it is used in South America.

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Speaker 3: In order to understand Cholo culture from the Andes, I

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Speaker 3: reached out to Marc Guabiles, a Peruvian journalist and self

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Speaker 3: identifying Cholo in the South American sense. He's also a

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Speaker 3: published author with two books on the Andy and Cholo.

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Speaker 3: In his first book, or I'm Not Your Cholo, Marco

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Speaker 3: explores how harmful the word cholo is when it's used

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Speaker 3: as an insult, the violence that carries, and how deep

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Speaker 3: this violence is embedded in Peruvian history.

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Speaker 1: We Peruvians have like a very complicated relationship with this work.

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Speaker 1: When I was a kid, cholo was an insult that

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Speaker 1: I tried to run run away from. Cholo meant like

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Speaker 1: dirty Indian.

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Speaker 3: I had no idea that the word clo was still

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Speaker 3: being used as a racial slur towards indigenous people in

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Speaker 3: South America. The first time I had ever heard cholo

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Speaker 3: in the South American sense was remember when my partner

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Speaker 3: casually called her father a chorlito, But for her and

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Speaker 3: her family, the term cholo or toilito is used to

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Speaker 3: acknowledge their indigenous heritage with pride. So I asked Marco

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Speaker 3: if the sport was being reclaimed and if it was,

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Speaker 3: whether this revendication had been successful. He mentioned Bolivia, another

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Speaker 3: Indian country that commonly uses the word cholo.

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Speaker 1: So in Bolivia, for example, that cholita is is a

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Speaker 1: woman dressed up with like you know, beautiful long skirts

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Speaker 1: and like very colorful like dressing. And in the in

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Speaker 1: the past in Bolivia, these women, like as most indigenous people,

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Speaker 1: were treated like like aliens, like pretty bad. But with

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Speaker 1: a Moralis government in the early to thousands, there was

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Speaker 1: this movement and rabnication of the indigenous identities and also

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Speaker 1: the identity of indigenous women. So now when you go

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Speaker 1: to Olivia you see these indigenous women like everywhere in

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Speaker 1: La Paz or in Elato, of course, but there's also

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Speaker 1: a culture around like the tolita. It's an image of pride,

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Speaker 1: of indigenous pride, So that is something very very very interesting,

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Speaker 1: but still there in Bolivia, tolo mierda, like factinglo is

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Speaker 1: still is used as an insult and very very very bad.

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Speaker 1: So I think what I'm trying to say is that

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Speaker 1: rave indication is not erasing the violence that is embedded

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Speaker 1: in this world.

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Speaker 3: Marco is aware of the Mexican origin of the word

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Speaker 3: and told me how it came to be introduced to Peru.

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Speaker 1: So the arena meaning of toolo is dug because in Mexico,

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Speaker 1: in the now, there's this like type of dog call

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Speaker 1: cholie squintly. So when they when they bring the world

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Speaker 1: to Peru, they used it to name indigenous people. For

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Speaker 1: Spanish conquerors, indigenous were not like human beings. They were

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Speaker 1: like animals. They were treated like animals, not only because

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Speaker 1: the color of their skin or because of their culture,

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Speaker 1: but because of the they were not like Christians. And

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Speaker 1: for me, it's very important to like notice that it

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Speaker 1: was an insult in the beginning, and it is an

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Speaker 1: insult now. So that's that's the line that crosses the

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Speaker 1: history of the word soolo, it's it was always a weapon.

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Speaker 3: Marco was unaware that cholo meant something different in the

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Speaker 3: US and in Mexico too. It wasn't until he moved

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Speaker 3: to the United States that his version of cholo and

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Speaker 3: the Mexican version of cholo collided.

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Speaker 1: I was working as an interpreter and it was like,

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Speaker 1: I think in the in two thousand and sixteen, and

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Speaker 1: I was driving my car with a guy from I

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Speaker 1: think he was from what Is and we were talking

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Speaker 1: about about my book. And I was telling, hey, Roberto,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to publish this book. What's what's the name

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Speaker 1: of the book. Not so Tolo. I am not your chlo.

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Speaker 1: And he said, but you are not tallo. Why do

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Speaker 1: you use the word you are not cholo and I

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Speaker 1: and I said, of course, no, yes I am. I

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Speaker 1: am a chilo. In people like would call me like

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Speaker 1: tolo uh. And then he told me, no, Tolo in

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Speaker 1: Mexico is like this kind of like the member of

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Speaker 1: a gang, like like a young guy using all this

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Speaker 1: like jewelry and with this like weird.

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Speaker 3: Hair, confused, just like I was. Marco also did his research.

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Speaker 1: I could see still that the word cholo in used

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Speaker 1: in Mexico or in the US, feel like something very aggressive.

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Speaker 1: There's a general parttern that I can see is like

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Speaker 1: it is used the word sholo is used to name

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Speaker 1: like super standard people. So there's a standard people, which

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Speaker 1: is like white people or mestizo in in Latin American countries.

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Speaker 1: So we are the standard, we are the people, and

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Speaker 1: Cholos are the super standard those who are not yet

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Speaker 1: like the standard or human beings. And that is like,

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Speaker 1: that is crazy. But what is also crazy for me

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Speaker 1: is that people who have power, people who are in power,

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Speaker 1: like white people, who we would say can't use the

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Speaker 1: word soolo in Latin America in a in a sweet

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Speaker 1: way like expressions of law. To do that, they need

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Speaker 1: to like eliminate all the context. And they eliminate all

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Speaker 1: the context through ignorance, through you know, white innocence or

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Speaker 1: white privilege.

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Speaker 3: So why did you start identifying as a troller?

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Speaker 1: I try to improve my relationship with this world because

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Speaker 1: I feel that, okay, this is an insult, but what

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Speaker 1: would happen if I just take the word from those

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Speaker 1: who use it to like insult me or punish me.

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Speaker 1: So I started like self identifying myself as a tolo

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Speaker 1: as a way to fight against that violence. What I

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Speaker 1: tried to say is I come from this indigenous history

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Speaker 1: and I am not super standard, but I am like

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Speaker 1: part of a marginalized community, and I want to make

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Speaker 1: that clear. I don't want to erase that, but that

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Speaker 1: is something that I started to do, like in my

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Speaker 1: late twenties, early thirties.

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Speaker 3: And then Marco told me that in Peru and in

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Speaker 3: other countries in Latin America, there's this idea that we're

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Speaker 3: all mestizos is persistent. It's the idea that we're all

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Speaker 3: mixed race without acknowledging the indigenous populations.

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Speaker 1: And that is that is a very very crazy idea

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Speaker 1: because you go to the streets and you just see

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Speaker 1: different types of people white, black, brown, whatever. So for me,

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Speaker 1: it is important to say that I am a Toto

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Speaker 1: because I don't want to erase the disparities. I want

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Speaker 1: people to know it. And a way to do that

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Speaker 1: is just like calling myself a cholo. I am not

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Speaker 1: a white person, I'm not a mestizo. I'm a cholo.

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Speaker 3: After listening to Michael and Marco talk about their different

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Speaker 3: Trolo identities and we're reflecting on the racist, aggressive origin

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Speaker 3: and nature of this term, I wondered if there would

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Speaker 3: ever be a time where the term trolo could ever

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Speaker 3: just be something universally positive. Here's Michael again.

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Speaker 5: For me. Trollo here is derogatory in some ways the

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Speaker 5: way people use it, but the way we interpret it

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Speaker 5: is the way it should be looked at. You know

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Speaker 5: what I mean, Like I walk around, I'm a trollo.

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Speaker 5: I'm proud, you know what I mean. I go everywhere

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Speaker 5: and people know what I am, so I'm proud of it.

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Speaker 5: You know, if we let it be a derogatory term,

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Speaker 5: then it just belittles us. Can't give that word power.

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Speaker 5: We have to use it to our advantage. But we

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Speaker 5: also have to teach the young kids the total doesn't

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Speaker 5: mean you have to kill another guy or you know

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Speaker 5: what I mean. We have to reach out to the

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Speaker 5: children and say, hey, look guys, I grew up like this.

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Speaker 5: You know I've done that. You don't have to do that.

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Speaker 3: Michael is less enthusiastic.

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Speaker 1: So for indigenous people, the word total still is an insult,

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Speaker 1: and I think that is not going to change because sadly,

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Speaker 1: the conditions in which Indienous people living in Latin America

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Speaker 1: has not changed, and they are not changing. It's Indianus people.

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Speaker 1: We see what's going on with them in equal or

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Speaker 1: in Peru, in Guatemala, they are like sometimes it feels

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Speaker 1: drastic to talk about, like genoeside, but that's what is

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Speaker 1: happening with Indienus people since the Congress, and that it

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Speaker 1: hasn't stopped. So I think maybe we can start like

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Speaker 1: finding different meanings for the word soolo and we can

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Speaker 1: use it in a very in a more sweet way.

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Speaker 1: But what is going to be hard, really hard, is

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Speaker 1: to create h a Latin America that doesn't kill in

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Speaker 1: the NUS people just for being in the enns. That

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Speaker 1: is that is the real challenge here.

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Speaker 3: Cholo, kinggster, indio, savage, perro, slave, These are all terms

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Speaker 3: we've normalized to describe the same people, Indigenous people, the castaways,

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Speaker 3: the ones that colonization tried so hard to erase, but

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Speaker 3: are still here. They're on the streets of La LAPAs

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Speaker 3: and Lima, and they're reclaiming what they can and learning

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Speaker 3: to be proud of who they are, no matter whether

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Speaker 3: their total music sounds like this.

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Speaker 7: Or like this, Oh no No.

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Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Emil Sekiros and edited by

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Speaker 2: Andrea Lopez Grussado. Latino USA team include Nil Massias, Mike Sargent,

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Speaker 2: Marta Martinez, Julia Ta Martinelli, Gini Montalbo, Alejandra Salasar, Renaldo

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Speaker 2: Leanos Junior and Julia Rocha, with help.

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Speaker 5: From Raoul Perez.

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Speaker 2: Special thanks to Jocelin Asusina Contreras. Our engineers are Stephanie Lebaud,

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Speaker 2: Julia Caruso and Leah Shaw. Our digital editor is Louis Luna.

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Speaker 2: Our New York Women's Foundation nig Knight Fellow is Mari

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Speaker 2: es Quinka. Our theme music was composed by Sighera Rubinos.

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Speaker 2: If you like the music you heard on this episode,

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Speaker 2: stop by Latinousa dot org and check out our weekly

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Speaker 2: Spotify playlist. I'm your host and executive producer Maria jo Josa.

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Speaker 2: Join us again on our next episode, and in the meantime,

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Speaker 2: look for us on all of your social media. Hi

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Speaker 2: loos BeO estella proxima cho.

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Speaker 4: Latino Usa is made possible in part by W. K.

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Speaker 4: Kellogg Foundation, a partner with Communities where Children Come First,

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Speaker 4: the chan Zuckerberg Initiative, and the Heising Simons Foundation Unlocking knowledge,

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Speaker 4: opportunity and possibilities. More at hsfoundation dot org.

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Speaker 2: Take it away, It meanstick. I'm Mariao Hossa. Next time

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Speaker 2: on Latino USA. A year after George Floyd's murder, a

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Speaker 2: family conversation about race and Latini that.

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Speaker 8: We were never separated from being black.

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Speaker 4: We always knew we were black, and it wasn't just

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Speaker 4: because of the color of our skin.

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Speaker 2: It's our culture that Next time on Latino USA