1 00:00:15,076 --> 00:00:23,876 Speaker 1: Pushkin, this is solvable. I'm Jacob Weisberg. So a lot 2 00:00:23,956 --> 00:00:27,836 Speaker 1: of funding from international agios are focused or earmark on 3 00:00:27,916 --> 00:00:33,316 Speaker 1: diseases such as HIV, h A, malaria. But the downside 4 00:00:33,596 --> 00:00:38,236 Speaker 1: are focusing on shall I see popular diseases, is that 5 00:00:38,316 --> 00:00:43,356 Speaker 1: you're missing the neglected diseases. Providing healthcare around the world 6 00:00:43,476 --> 00:00:47,476 Speaker 1: is noble work. Governments and international donors often have excellent 7 00:00:47,516 --> 00:00:51,316 Speaker 1: intentions when they focus on high impact diseases and when 8 00:00:51,316 --> 00:00:55,116 Speaker 1: they zero in on maternal health, but that can also 9 00:00:55,236 --> 00:00:59,196 Speaker 1: lead doctors to skip past other health issues. For doctor 10 00:00:59,276 --> 00:01:03,596 Speaker 1: Lutfi Lackman, focusing on maternal health and that the impact 11 00:01:03,636 --> 00:01:06,116 Speaker 1: he could have on the community where he was working 12 00:01:06,356 --> 00:01:09,636 Speaker 1: was too limited. I even gotta and in war from 13 00:01:09,716 --> 00:01:13,676 Speaker 1: the United Nations because I was focusing on a montunity health. 14 00:01:14,236 --> 00:01:17,396 Speaker 1: But I kind of feel I don't deserve it because 15 00:01:17,676 --> 00:01:21,956 Speaker 1: it is not something that is very high impact. So 16 00:01:22,036 --> 00:01:26,356 Speaker 1: now I'm just focusing on what the committee needs. That 17 00:01:26,396 --> 00:01:29,876 Speaker 1: meant walking away from large international grants. It was a 18 00:01:29,916 --> 00:01:33,436 Speaker 1: scary proposition, but doctor Lachman knew there had to be 19 00:01:33,476 --> 00:01:36,356 Speaker 1: a way to establish care for a wider range of 20 00:01:36,396 --> 00:01:41,356 Speaker 1: ailments and to make those medical clinics financially secure. It 21 00:01:41,436 --> 00:01:47,516 Speaker 1: was cross subsidization. You follow the principles of Muhammad Yunis, 22 00:01:47,636 --> 00:01:51,076 Speaker 1: the Nobel Prize winner, founder of the Grameen Bank, and 23 00:01:51,396 --> 00:01:54,836 Speaker 1: I think the inventor really of a microfinance exactly, but 24 00:01:54,836 --> 00:01:57,476 Speaker 1: I think most people do think of him in the 25 00:01:57,516 --> 00:02:01,596 Speaker 1: field of economics and lending. But here you've taken some 26 00:02:01,636 --> 00:02:04,836 Speaker 1: of those ideas and applied them to provision of healthcare, 27 00:02:05,396 --> 00:02:12,316 Speaker 1: so destimdel cross epsidizing community helping themselves. I really thought 28 00:02:12,356 --> 00:02:15,476 Speaker 1: that this is a very good idea, and just this 29 00:02:15,556 --> 00:02:20,636 Speaker 1: year we've managed to become fully sustainable. Doctor Lutfi Lackman 30 00:02:20,796 --> 00:02:24,716 Speaker 1: is the co founder of Hospitals Beyond Boundaries. They hired 31 00:02:24,716 --> 00:02:28,236 Speaker 1: doctors locally and provide a broad spectrum of care to 32 00:02:28,396 --> 00:02:32,276 Speaker 1: meet the needs their community's request. The problem that I'm 33 00:02:32,316 --> 00:02:38,676 Speaker 1: trying to solve is providing a healthcare for marginalized communities 34 00:02:38,956 --> 00:02:47,556 Speaker 1: in the financially sustainable way. Doctor Lackman didn't come to 35 00:02:47,596 --> 00:02:51,716 Speaker 1: the idea for Hospitals Beyond Boundaries easily or quickly. It 36 00:02:51,716 --> 00:02:53,676 Speaker 1: began on a faithful night back when he was in 37 00:02:53,716 --> 00:02:56,756 Speaker 1: medical school in Malaysia. He and some friends got together 38 00:02:56,796 --> 00:02:59,956 Speaker 1: to decompress after a long week. They decided to play 39 00:02:59,996 --> 00:03:02,556 Speaker 1: a game and they broke into two teams like armies. 40 00:03:02,876 --> 00:03:06,716 Speaker 1: Everyone had small water balloon type ammunition, sort of like 41 00:03:06,756 --> 00:03:09,876 Speaker 1: a version of handheld paintball. This is in the dark 42 00:03:09,916 --> 00:03:13,356 Speaker 1: of night and in the jungle, and a warning here. 43 00:03:13,436 --> 00:03:16,516 Speaker 1: Some of this description is little graphic. So it's a game. 44 00:03:17,076 --> 00:03:21,076 Speaker 1: It was at night and people were separating two teams, 45 00:03:21,156 --> 00:03:24,596 Speaker 1: and we were in the jungle. You kind of attack 46 00:03:24,676 --> 00:03:29,276 Speaker 1: each other. So what happened is that it was really dark. 47 00:03:29,356 --> 00:03:31,996 Speaker 1: I couldn't see anything, and I hear like someone was 48 00:03:32,356 --> 00:03:36,876 Speaker 1: running towards me and had this plastic bullet smashed directly 49 00:03:37,516 --> 00:03:42,276 Speaker 1: at my ear. So the pressure was so strong that 50 00:03:42,356 --> 00:03:48,076 Speaker 1: my ear drum was busted and it fractured the mastoid bone. 51 00:03:48,596 --> 00:03:53,916 Speaker 1: So that's where our brain fluids also flows too. When 52 00:03:53,916 --> 00:03:56,916 Speaker 1: you get brain fluids looking out of your ear, it's 53 00:03:56,956 --> 00:04:00,036 Speaker 1: pretty dangerous because if it gets in facted, you can 54 00:04:00,076 --> 00:04:03,356 Speaker 1: get brain new factions. So I was rushed to the 55 00:04:03,396 --> 00:04:07,116 Speaker 1: hospital and I was admitted for two weeks. I had 56 00:04:07,156 --> 00:04:11,756 Speaker 1: to be on antibiotics continuously. I was a still a 57 00:04:11,796 --> 00:04:16,116 Speaker 1: medical student. I'm not sure with the fear of, you know, 58 00:04:16,196 --> 00:04:20,356 Speaker 1: whether what my future will be. That really changed the 59 00:04:20,436 --> 00:04:25,196 Speaker 1: trajectory of my life, and so it's not just physical 60 00:04:25,316 --> 00:04:31,356 Speaker 1: but mental pain that I go through. So I guess 61 00:04:31,556 --> 00:04:34,796 Speaker 1: why I wanted to start something is to have a 62 00:04:34,836 --> 00:04:39,756 Speaker 1: sense of doing something that is part of bigger community 63 00:04:40,036 --> 00:04:44,276 Speaker 1: and trying to contribute to that community. How soon was 64 00:04:44,276 --> 00:04:46,836 Speaker 1: it after that injury that you opened the first clinic? 65 00:04:47,076 --> 00:04:50,516 Speaker 1: When I've started the organization, it was half a year, 66 00:04:51,036 --> 00:04:53,196 Speaker 1: but three years after that that I started the clinic 67 00:04:53,236 --> 00:04:55,996 Speaker 1: because we had to fundraise for the whole three years. 68 00:04:56,396 --> 00:04:58,156 Speaker 1: I mean, it's very hard to fundraise when you're a 69 00:04:58,236 --> 00:05:00,716 Speaker 1: medical student. You come to people saying I want to 70 00:05:00,916 --> 00:05:03,156 Speaker 1: build a hospital. I want to build a clinic. The 71 00:05:03,276 --> 00:05:06,276 Speaker 1: one trust you you see a student, right, So it 72 00:05:06,316 --> 00:05:09,756 Speaker 1: took us a long time to get enough funding to 73 00:05:09,956 --> 00:05:14,596 Speaker 1: start our first clinic. So what's the difference. I understand 74 00:05:14,636 --> 00:05:18,676 Speaker 1: the idea that it's more of the community and I 75 00:05:18,716 --> 00:05:22,596 Speaker 1: guess more culturally sensitive. Is it that people who otherwise 76 00:05:23,076 --> 00:05:26,316 Speaker 1: wouldn't seek access to medical care will be more comfortable 77 00:05:26,756 --> 00:05:30,956 Speaker 1: in the kind of institution you're setting up. Yeah. In 78 00:05:30,996 --> 00:05:34,556 Speaker 1: a conversation of Global health, we talked a lot about access, 79 00:05:34,996 --> 00:05:37,916 Speaker 1: but a lot of people forget that access is not 80 00:05:37,996 --> 00:05:41,356 Speaker 1: always geographical that you can have a clinic disc next 81 00:05:41,396 --> 00:05:44,876 Speaker 1: to where you live, but there are the barries, such 82 00:05:44,956 --> 00:05:49,236 Speaker 1: as a cultural barrier in which you are not comfortable 83 00:05:49,316 --> 00:05:52,596 Speaker 1: going to the clinic. So one of the first project 84 00:05:52,676 --> 00:05:57,196 Speaker 1: that we started was building a clinic in Cambodia and 85 00:05:57,716 --> 00:06:01,036 Speaker 1: the community around on there. I do have access to 86 00:06:01,316 --> 00:06:05,516 Speaker 1: clinics in the area. Cambodia has one of the highest 87 00:06:05,556 --> 00:06:10,796 Speaker 1: densities of and use in the world, second to Rwanda, 88 00:06:10,876 --> 00:06:13,396 Speaker 1: and a lot of these clinics are run by Foreignan 89 00:06:13,476 --> 00:06:18,476 Speaker 1: Jews and are manned by foreigners. So I'm not discounting 90 00:06:18,676 --> 00:06:22,436 Speaker 1: their effort and their expertise, but it's just that the 91 00:06:23,036 --> 00:06:27,996 Speaker 1: community don't feel comfortable discussing their health and their concerns 92 00:06:28,476 --> 00:06:33,276 Speaker 1: because of I guess language barriers or cultural sensitivity. So 93 00:06:33,356 --> 00:06:36,716 Speaker 1: in the end what they decide to is to go 94 00:06:36,796 --> 00:06:40,476 Speaker 1: back to the community and see traditional healers. So there's 95 00:06:40,476 --> 00:06:43,116 Speaker 1: the basis of the idea of hospital monitor is just 96 00:06:43,716 --> 00:06:50,276 Speaker 1: buildings hospital or clinic that is modern available for everyone 97 00:06:50,876 --> 00:06:54,436 Speaker 1: to come and feel comfortable getting a treatment. Yeah, I 98 00:06:54,476 --> 00:06:58,116 Speaker 1: mean you're not a native to Cambodia either, you're from 99 00:06:58,276 --> 00:07:01,036 Speaker 1: that part of the world. Broadly defined that you're from Malaysia, 100 00:07:01,116 --> 00:07:03,156 Speaker 1: which is I don't know, I think over a thousand 101 00:07:03,156 --> 00:07:06,436 Speaker 1: miles away. I'm if I'm visualizing the map correctly. So 102 00:07:06,476 --> 00:07:10,996 Speaker 1: what's different about you as technically a foreign NGO setting 103 00:07:11,036 --> 00:07:14,556 Speaker 1: up a clinic versus the kinds of international NGOs you're 104 00:07:14,556 --> 00:07:20,516 Speaker 1: talking about. So what we do is everything behind the scenes. 105 00:07:21,236 --> 00:07:25,236 Speaker 1: We hire from the local community, So we seek doctors 106 00:07:25,236 --> 00:07:29,916 Speaker 1: from that community, nurses, midwives, and so it is one 107 00:07:29,996 --> 00:07:33,836 Speaker 1: hundred percent staff by the local community. So the things 108 00:07:33,836 --> 00:07:39,516 Speaker 1: that we do are basically fundraising, consultation, giving advice. But 109 00:07:39,636 --> 00:07:42,756 Speaker 1: in the end, it is them who's running the show, 110 00:07:42,956 --> 00:07:45,916 Speaker 1: and it is them who's getting the credit, and we're 111 00:07:45,956 --> 00:07:49,436 Speaker 1: not looking for any profit or any credit. It just 112 00:07:49,716 --> 00:07:53,076 Speaker 1: makes us feel fulfilled and happy to see the clinic 113 00:07:53,436 --> 00:07:57,436 Speaker 1: being sustainable and having an impact towards the community. Right, 114 00:07:57,476 --> 00:08:02,276 Speaker 1: So you're providing access to local doctors and local medical workers. 115 00:08:02,596 --> 00:08:04,996 Speaker 1: Presumably a lot of the people who come to your 116 00:08:05,036 --> 00:08:08,156 Speaker 1: clinic would have access to those kinds of doctors, but 117 00:08:08,316 --> 00:08:09,996 Speaker 1: is that they couldn't afford for them, and you're going 118 00:08:10,036 --> 00:08:12,676 Speaker 1: to subsidize it or pay for it. So the model 119 00:08:12,716 --> 00:08:15,916 Speaker 1: that we use as cross subsidization. So I guess there 120 00:08:16,116 --> 00:08:20,076 Speaker 1: is another difference between US and other charity clinics that 121 00:08:20,116 --> 00:08:26,236 Speaker 1: are funded by international organizations. So most charity clinics are 122 00:08:26,476 --> 00:08:30,436 Speaker 1: giving free treatment for the poor one hundred percent, but 123 00:08:30,636 --> 00:08:37,076 Speaker 1: they are perpetually dependent on that funding donations or grants 124 00:08:37,756 --> 00:08:40,796 Speaker 1: at hospitals grant boundaries. We are not dependent on any 125 00:08:40,836 --> 00:08:45,596 Speaker 1: of those grants or international engels. We are open to 126 00:08:45,716 --> 00:08:48,676 Speaker 1: all patients, not just poorer patients, but those who are 127 00:08:48,676 --> 00:08:51,876 Speaker 1: able to pay will pay the normal fees, and all 128 00:08:51,876 --> 00:08:55,636 Speaker 1: the profits that is gained from that will be used 129 00:08:55,676 --> 00:08:59,356 Speaker 1: to fully subsidize the poor. So it's kind of like 130 00:08:59,516 --> 00:09:04,356 Speaker 1: a virtuous cycle, and it's proven to be sustainable because 131 00:09:04,436 --> 00:09:07,156 Speaker 1: you will never know if you're dependent on funding when 132 00:09:07,196 --> 00:09:10,476 Speaker 1: that funding will end if anything happens. I guess that's 133 00:09:10,516 --> 00:09:14,756 Speaker 1: the difference between US and other clinics. So the local 134 00:09:14,796 --> 00:09:17,916 Speaker 1: providers are paid, and are they paid what they normally 135 00:09:17,956 --> 00:09:20,756 Speaker 1: expect to be paid a bit more actually, so we are. 136 00:09:21,116 --> 00:09:24,396 Speaker 1: The rate that we're paying is the same as what 137 00:09:24,556 --> 00:09:27,676 Speaker 1: other for profit or private clinic in the area would 138 00:09:27,756 --> 00:09:31,916 Speaker 1: pay their staff. And that is also one of the difference, 139 00:09:32,036 --> 00:09:36,076 Speaker 1: because we don't want to like project an image that 140 00:09:36,276 --> 00:09:40,436 Speaker 1: because you're a clinic that treats the poor, so the 141 00:09:40,836 --> 00:09:43,756 Speaker 1: condition or the appearance must be of the of a 142 00:09:43,796 --> 00:09:47,196 Speaker 1: poor clinic, right so, and it's open for all. So 143 00:09:47,276 --> 00:09:50,596 Speaker 1: it also eliminates the stigma of you know, when someone 144 00:09:50,636 --> 00:09:53,396 Speaker 1: goes to the clinic and the community sees them going there, 145 00:09:53,396 --> 00:09:56,156 Speaker 1: oh so he's a poor person going to that clinic. 146 00:09:56,276 --> 00:10:00,036 Speaker 1: So we're eliminating that stigma. It's also a good way 147 00:10:00,076 --> 00:10:04,556 Speaker 1: to retain patients because as a clinic doing primary care, 148 00:10:04,556 --> 00:10:08,876 Speaker 1: it is very important to have your patient seeking treatment 149 00:10:09,356 --> 00:10:12,916 Speaker 1: with you continuously because you want to if someone has 150 00:10:12,916 --> 00:10:15,876 Speaker 1: a chronic disease, you want to manage them if possible, 151 00:10:15,956 --> 00:10:19,116 Speaker 1: for a lifetime. But we also see a lot of 152 00:10:19,196 --> 00:10:22,836 Speaker 1: patient who who climb up the social economic letters. So 153 00:10:22,876 --> 00:10:26,316 Speaker 1: I'll say started as a poor person and then becomes 154 00:10:26,516 --> 00:10:29,516 Speaker 1: you know, gets more income and climbs up the short 155 00:10:29,596 --> 00:10:33,676 Speaker 1: social or economic letter. And after he has been able 156 00:10:33,756 --> 00:10:38,156 Speaker 1: to get more income, he's still able to come to 157 00:10:38,196 --> 00:10:41,716 Speaker 1: the clinic and now he can pay and contribute to 158 00:10:41,756 --> 00:10:44,396 Speaker 1: the clinic so that other appropriopole will be able to 159 00:10:44,436 --> 00:10:48,236 Speaker 1: be treated. So it's a it's a very tight knit 160 00:10:48,356 --> 00:10:52,316 Speaker 1: community and the pieces that we work so whenever you 161 00:10:52,356 --> 00:10:56,116 Speaker 1: come to this clinic there's a sense of belonging. Yeah, 162 00:10:56,156 --> 00:11:00,156 Speaker 1: I know you. You follow the principles of Muhammad units 163 00:11:00,156 --> 00:11:03,676 Speaker 1: the Nobel Prize winner, founder of the Grameen Bank, and 164 00:11:03,916 --> 00:11:06,876 Speaker 1: I think the inventor really of a microfinance and a 165 00:11:06,956 --> 00:11:10,556 Speaker 1: big principle of him is the kind of sustainability you're 166 00:11:10,596 --> 00:11:14,036 Speaker 1: talking about, right, that the business doesn't have to make 167 00:11:14,196 --> 00:11:19,116 Speaker 1: much profit or necessarily any profit in the conventional sense, 168 00:11:19,276 --> 00:11:21,396 Speaker 1: but it has it has to be able to pay 169 00:11:21,436 --> 00:11:25,036 Speaker 1: for itself and support itself. But here you've taken some 170 00:11:25,116 --> 00:11:29,636 Speaker 1: of those ideas and applied them to provision of healthcare. Yeah. 171 00:11:29,716 --> 00:11:33,316 Speaker 1: So a lot of funding from international energyos are focused 172 00:11:33,396 --> 00:11:39,236 Speaker 1: or earmark on diseases such as HIV, h malaria, maternity. 173 00:11:39,676 --> 00:11:44,596 Speaker 1: So these are all very important diseases. But the downside 174 00:11:44,876 --> 00:11:49,156 Speaker 1: of focusing on high level and shall I see popular 175 00:11:49,716 --> 00:11:55,476 Speaker 1: diseases to eradicate is that you're missing the neglected diseases. Right. So, 176 00:11:55,516 --> 00:11:58,276 Speaker 1: for example, at the place where we work in Cambodia, 177 00:11:58,316 --> 00:12:03,436 Speaker 1: a lot of patients come with genital and urninary track affections. 178 00:12:03,956 --> 00:12:08,676 Speaker 1: This is mostly has to do with hygiene, and nowhere 179 00:12:08,876 --> 00:12:13,316 Speaker 1: can I find funding for that. So when I read 180 00:12:13,356 --> 00:12:17,436 Speaker 1: the book by Mohammad Yunus. I really thought that this 181 00:12:17,516 --> 00:12:21,796 Speaker 1: is a very good idea in which cross subsidizing community 182 00:12:22,076 --> 00:12:26,476 Speaker 1: helping themselves. So a particular chapter that in the Unit's 183 00:12:26,516 --> 00:12:33,316 Speaker 1: book is about patient who has talasemia. It's a blood disorder. 184 00:12:33,956 --> 00:12:37,836 Speaker 1: It's genetic, so anyone can get it, so it doesn't 185 00:12:37,836 --> 00:12:41,876 Speaker 1: select your social economic status. So they are the poor 186 00:12:41,956 --> 00:12:43,956 Speaker 1: people who has that, as the rich people who has that, 187 00:12:44,036 --> 00:12:47,476 Speaker 1: and middle income. So the middle income and the people 188 00:12:47,516 --> 00:12:49,996 Speaker 1: who with more means are able to pay for the 189 00:12:49,996 --> 00:12:54,276 Speaker 1: treatment of talasemia, but for the poor they die by 190 00:12:54,316 --> 00:12:58,356 Speaker 1: the fifth birthday. So in moment Unit's book he tells 191 00:12:58,356 --> 00:13:02,076 Speaker 1: the story of how they cross subsidize the treatments between 192 00:13:02,196 --> 00:13:04,436 Speaker 1: the rich and the poor. So I thought, that's really 193 00:13:04,516 --> 00:13:06,676 Speaker 1: good idea, and we're going to do that in Cebuia, 194 00:13:07,356 --> 00:13:08,956 Speaker 1: Doctor Lack, when I know it was your goal to 195 00:13:09,156 --> 00:13:12,956 Speaker 1: build a hospital and clinic that would be modern and 196 00:13:13,156 --> 00:13:16,636 Speaker 1: available for everybody and would be comfortable. How do you 197 00:13:16,676 --> 00:13:19,796 Speaker 1: make people feel comfortable in a hospital. Oh, it's a 198 00:13:19,796 --> 00:13:24,356 Speaker 1: lot of I mean, it's a feel of study by itself, 199 00:13:25,236 --> 00:13:31,636 Speaker 1: but I believe number one is the interaction with the staff. 200 00:13:32,356 --> 00:13:36,596 Speaker 1: You'll feel comfortable when the staff are friendly when they 201 00:13:36,636 --> 00:13:40,236 Speaker 1: treat you well, they understand your concerns and treat you 202 00:13:40,316 --> 00:13:44,476 Speaker 1: with respect. And there's also a good thing about running 203 00:13:44,476 --> 00:13:47,476 Speaker 1: a clinic that is open to all. Although you're focusing 204 00:13:47,476 --> 00:13:49,956 Speaker 1: on the poor, the staff don't know whether you're rich, 205 00:13:50,036 --> 00:13:52,676 Speaker 1: or your middle class or your poor, so they have 206 00:13:52,796 --> 00:13:56,476 Speaker 1: to treat you equally whether wherever you're from or whatever 207 00:13:56,476 --> 00:14:00,356 Speaker 1: the social economic status you're from. Is it a model 208 00:14:00,356 --> 00:14:02,556 Speaker 1: that can work all over the world or does it 209 00:14:02,596 --> 00:14:06,036 Speaker 1: work best in small, clothes knit communities. I mean, how 210 00:14:06,036 --> 00:14:09,116 Speaker 1: are you thinking about the potential growth of it? Yeah, 211 00:14:09,116 --> 00:14:12,676 Speaker 1: I would say places like rural areas where everybody is 212 00:14:13,476 --> 00:14:17,036 Speaker 1: poor and don't have the means to pay, it wouldn't 213 00:14:17,036 --> 00:14:21,836 Speaker 1: work in those places. There's no like a blanket solution 214 00:14:22,156 --> 00:14:27,236 Speaker 1: towards the problem of access to healthcare. But the model 215 00:14:27,276 --> 00:14:30,836 Speaker 1: that we're using is something that would work in places 216 00:14:30,916 --> 00:14:34,116 Speaker 1: like peri urban areas, on suburban areas, and even in 217 00:14:34,236 --> 00:14:37,476 Speaker 1: urban areas where people there are poor people like in Qualumport, 218 00:14:37,716 --> 00:14:40,316 Speaker 1: there's still the homeless people. That would be the best 219 00:14:40,356 --> 00:14:43,276 Speaker 1: model to follow. Yeah, I mean, part of what's so 220 00:14:43,396 --> 00:14:47,036 Speaker 1: interesting about this this idea is that it removes the 221 00:14:47,556 --> 00:14:51,876 Speaker 1: you know, almost colonial legacy of a lot of the 222 00:14:51,956 --> 00:14:55,156 Speaker 1: scare of the idea that rich countries are providing this 223 00:14:56,036 --> 00:14:59,876 Speaker 1: out of charity and generosity to very poor people in 224 00:14:59,956 --> 00:15:05,036 Speaker 1: poor countries. And you're you're not looking, at least in 225 00:15:05,756 --> 00:15:09,476 Speaker 1: the main for foreign doctors to come and volu tier. 226 00:15:09,716 --> 00:15:11,956 Speaker 1: You're not trying to raise money that I can tell 227 00:15:12,716 --> 00:15:15,436 Speaker 1: is that really viable? I mean, can you really finance 228 00:15:15,556 --> 00:15:20,036 Speaker 1: this and provide the quality of care without some form 229 00:15:20,076 --> 00:15:23,836 Speaker 1: of subsidy. Yeah, that's a very good point. And we're 230 00:15:23,916 --> 00:15:29,756 Speaker 1: very familiar with the story of a European organization or 231 00:15:29,796 --> 00:15:33,476 Speaker 1: from America coming in a community and becoming kind of 232 00:15:33,516 --> 00:15:37,476 Speaker 1: like the savior of these communities. But coming into a 233 00:15:37,516 --> 00:15:43,676 Speaker 1: community and thinking you know best what the community needs 234 00:15:43,916 --> 00:15:48,836 Speaker 1: is actually a colonial legacy coming in and deciding things 235 00:15:48,956 --> 00:15:54,476 Speaker 1: without consulting what actually the community wants, right, And I've 236 00:15:54,516 --> 00:15:58,116 Speaker 1: also fallen into this trap in the beginning. It's very 237 00:15:58,116 --> 00:16:02,916 Speaker 1: difficult to find funding for diseases that we want to 238 00:16:02,916 --> 00:16:06,596 Speaker 1: treat in the community. So in the beginning we were 239 00:16:06,636 --> 00:16:10,636 Speaker 1: focusing on modernity health because there's a lot of funding 240 00:16:10,836 --> 00:16:15,796 Speaker 1: on moltunity health. But after a year it didn't sustain. 241 00:16:15,876 --> 00:16:20,076 Speaker 1: Nobody came because a lot of these global goals are 242 00:16:20,516 --> 00:16:23,636 Speaker 1: a lot of efforts are being done by the government 243 00:16:24,196 --> 00:16:28,796 Speaker 1: and also by international organizations. So I guess as a 244 00:16:28,796 --> 00:16:32,956 Speaker 1: social enterprise or as a local angio, what you need 245 00:16:32,996 --> 00:16:36,676 Speaker 1: to focus on is on the needs of the community 246 00:16:36,836 --> 00:16:41,756 Speaker 1: and what they want what not the funder wants. So 247 00:16:42,036 --> 00:16:45,236 Speaker 1: it really took us a while to think about that, 248 00:16:45,756 --> 00:16:49,116 Speaker 1: and I even got an award from the United Nations. 249 00:16:49,596 --> 00:16:53,436 Speaker 1: I was selected as a United Nations Young Leader for 250 00:16:53,756 --> 00:16:57,916 Speaker 1: Sustainable Development Goals because I was focusing on moltunity health. 251 00:16:58,516 --> 00:17:02,396 Speaker 1: But I kind of feel I don't deserve it because yes, 252 00:17:02,556 --> 00:17:06,836 Speaker 1: I did that service, but it is not something that 253 00:17:06,996 --> 00:17:11,876 Speaker 1: is very high impact. So now I'm just focusing on 254 00:17:12,596 --> 00:17:15,236 Speaker 1: what the community needs. It's better for them to decide 255 00:17:15,236 --> 00:17:20,036 Speaker 1: what to focus on and have the credit. Yeah, doctor Lackman, 256 00:17:20,076 --> 00:17:23,436 Speaker 1: I always like to wrap up by asking what our 257 00:17:23,516 --> 00:17:27,516 Speaker 1: listeners can do to contribute to the solution to the 258 00:17:27,556 --> 00:17:30,796 Speaker 1: problem you've taken on. And this one poses a bit 259 00:17:30,836 --> 00:17:33,356 Speaker 1: of a challenge because you're what you've been telling me 260 00:17:33,396 --> 00:17:35,996 Speaker 1: in a way is that you're trying to find a 261 00:17:36,036 --> 00:17:39,396 Speaker 1: solution to the problem of healthcare in these places that 262 00:17:39,516 --> 00:17:44,236 Speaker 1: doesn't require help from abroad, but people listening, I think, 263 00:17:44,236 --> 00:17:47,236 Speaker 1: who be excited about this idea? What can they do 264 00:17:47,236 --> 00:17:50,396 Speaker 1: to be supportive? I believe it's not that we don't 265 00:17:50,516 --> 00:17:55,116 Speaker 1: need any support or funding from abroad, but my advice 266 00:17:55,356 --> 00:18:00,516 Speaker 1: not to earmark or make it specific. Have trust in 267 00:18:00,596 --> 00:18:06,436 Speaker 1: the community, and have some kind of accountability mechanism. Yeah, 268 00:18:06,436 --> 00:18:13,916 Speaker 1: hopefully little work. Doctor Lutfi Lachmann is the co founder 269 00:18:13,916 --> 00:18:17,516 Speaker 1: of Hospitals Beyond Boundaries, an organization that works to provide 270 00:18:17,556 --> 00:18:22,716 Speaker 1: culturally competent and financially sustainable healthcare options regardless of the 271 00:18:22,756 --> 00:18:26,516 Speaker 1: financial means of the patients in need. Solvable is brought 272 00:18:26,516 --> 00:18:29,156 Speaker 1: to you by Pushkin Industries. Our show is produced by 273 00:18:29,196 --> 00:18:34,236 Speaker 1: Camille Baptista, Senior producer Josin Thrank. Katherine Girardo is our 274 00:18:34,276 --> 00:18:38,876 Speaker 1: managing producer, and our executive producer is Mia Loebell. Special 275 00:18:38,916 --> 00:18:43,196 Speaker 1: thanks to Kobe Guildford, Heather Fame, Eric Xandler, Carly Migliori 276 00:18:43,516 --> 00:18:46,076 Speaker 1: and Kadija Holland. I'm Jacob Weisford