Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my
Speaker 2: name is known.
Speaker 3: They call me Bed.
Speaker 4: We're joined as always with our super producer Andrew the
Speaker 4: try Force Howard. Most importantly, you are you. You are here.
Speaker 4: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 4: We couldn't be more excited for this and a little
Speaker 4: bit disturbed, to be honest with you, folks, if you
Speaker 4: are a longtime conspiracy realist, you've doubtlessly noticed the same thing.
Speaker 4: We all have a strident uptick in reports of mysterious
Speaker 4: things happening in the sky, unidentified light, mysterious objects, drones
Speaker 4: that appear to come from somewhere unknown and return to
Speaker 4: an unknown place.
Speaker 3: And you know, I was thinking about it.
Speaker 4: For a lot of us, it's kind of like a headline, right,
Speaker 4: or a sound bite you read and maybe forget.
Speaker 2: But well, and for others it becomes a full on obsession.
Speaker 3: Right right, yes, exactly.
Speaker 4: You know, for many of us in the audience tonight,
Speaker 4: there's a story, an incident you witness that you can't explain.
Speaker 4: You check with friends and neighbors. As the years go on,
Speaker 4: you may make theories of your own, but every so
Speaker 4: often an intrepid observer goes a step further, taking on
Speaker 4: a quest to figure out what on or off Earth
Speaker 4: is actually happening up there in the sky. And you, guys,
Speaker 4: in today's interview, we are joined with an investigator who
Speaker 4: did just that, the one and only Gabe Leonards, the
Speaker 4: creator and host of Obscurum Invasion of the Drones. Gabe,
Speaker 4: thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 5: Guys, it's so great to be here. This has been
Speaker 5: a long time coming and I can't wait to dive
Speaker 5: in with you.
Speaker 6: Can I just say, Gabe that when I was listening
Speaker 6: to the first episode of Invasion of the Drones as
Speaker 6: a synthesizer nerd, I thought it was really appropriate. The
Speaker 6: first time you hear is a synth drone and I
Speaker 6: was like, that was very appropriate. So well done on
Speaker 6: the music portion as well.
Speaker 5: Hey, we did it for you one.
Speaker 2: Hi.
Speaker 3: Thanks you.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it your ol msnic drone.
Speaker 6: I felt seen or heard.
Speaker 2: All right, guys, let's set this scene because on this show,
Speaker 2: we have discussed multiple drone sightings in multiple parts of
Speaker 2: the world and at multiple times, but in obscurum we
Speaker 2: start pretty clearly in late twenty nineteen, right around Christmas time,
Speaker 2: in a place called Phillips County, Colorado. Gabe, take us
Speaker 2: to that place. What you're doing at that time? Why
Speaker 2: this even pings on your radar?
Speaker 5: Yeah? So, I originally grew up in this small town
Speaker 5: in Nebraska, which consequently is about thirty miles away from
Speaker 5: where these sightings first began. I live in Los Angeles,
Speaker 5: but I was going home for the holidays, and I
Speaker 5: was sitting there with my family and we were getting
Speaker 5: ready for dinner when we get this knock at the door,
Speaker 5: and it is this police officer who we were talking earlier.
Speaker 5: I used to chase storms and go out with him
Speaker 5: and actually spot severe weather in the area. But this
Speaker 5: time he came and he said, Gabe, you know what,
Speaker 5: there's some weird things happening over people's farms, not only
Speaker 5: in our county in Nebraska, but out there in Phillips County.
Speaker 5: There are all of these flashing lights just hovering all
Speaker 5: over the prairie, and no one knows who they are
Speaker 5: or who they belong to, and I think maybe this
Speaker 5: is something you should look into, and from that moment
Speaker 5: an obscure them invasion of the drums that you guys heard,
Speaker 5: I just started asking questions to try to get to
Speaker 5: the bottom of what was going on. But more importantly,
Speaker 5: you know, we've all seen flashing lights in the sky
Speaker 5: and it's very hard to justify what something is when
Speaker 5: you look up into the sky and see it. And
Speaker 5: I thought, why would these things actually be flying? And
Speaker 5: that's what I wanted to look into, the different theories
Speaker 5: as to the why more than the what, especially at
Speaker 5: the beginning game.
Speaker 6: I love how you just kind of casually dropped they
Speaker 6: used to be a storm chaser back in the day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3: Situation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is this is one of the first off
Speaker 4: I've got to say. I love how you chat with
Speaker 4: your mom in the show because there's this, there's this.
Speaker 4: This is a a genuine, thorough investigation into unexplained phenomena.
Speaker 4: It's also, I would say, an exploration of how people
Speaker 4: react to the unexplained, and that's the crucial piece of this.
Speaker 3: This is a.
Speaker 4: Hometown area for you, and I am so excited from
Speaker 4: the jump where this guy you know, shows up at
Speaker 4: your house and I think it's kind of late at night.
Speaker 4: It says, Okay, I I thought you might dig into this.
Speaker 4: Did you immediately go chasing the lights or how did
Speaker 4: you process this story?
Speaker 5: I thought he was crazy at first. I thought I've
Speaker 5: grown up in this area, you know, I've seen pretty
Speaker 5: much everything there is to see. I feel like in
Speaker 5: this part of the world growing up, because I would
Speaker 5: be out there on those back roads, chasing storms, you know,
Speaker 5: and running track out out there in high school and
Speaker 5: different things. And I thought, what could possibly be in
Speaker 5: the sky, because you got a picture this area. It's
Speaker 5: a remote area northeast Colorado, southwest Nebraska town of about
Speaker 5: two thousand people, and you look up into the sky
Speaker 5: and it's about ten or eleven at night, and you
Speaker 5: see all of these, you know. I mean, I saw
Speaker 5: myself SUV sized drones and then smaller ones surrounding them.
Speaker 5: It's just something that's straight out of a sci fi movie, honestly,
Speaker 5: and not something I would ever expect. And yeah, I
Speaker 5: thought someone has to be flying something or this is
Speaker 5: just a crazy coincidence. I really didn't know what to
Speaker 5: expect until I drove out there and looked up and
Speaker 5: saw these for myself.
Speaker 2: So you, Gabe, you actually saw like the smaller drones
Speaker 2: and mother drone kind of situation in the sky.
Speaker 6: And there's a great scene where you're kind of experiencing
Speaker 6: it in real time and you describe it beautifully. But yeah,
Speaker 6: I think that's about right.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean I'm about the biggest realist
Speaker 5: you're going to get. I'm a journalist and a producer,
Speaker 5: and you know, I always go where the evidence is
Speaker 5: to ask the questions to get answers, and yeah, I
Speaker 5: went out there and looked up into the sky and saw,
Speaker 5: you know, what appeared to be some type of mothership
Speaker 5: drone if you will, about two to three hundred yards
Speaker 5: off the ground. And then you have all of these
Speaker 5: kind of smaller red and white flashing lights surrounding this
Speaker 5: large kind of or black light which is literally just
Speaker 5: hovering about the prairie for hours.
Speaker 4: It seemed on end and unlike unlike a lot of
Speaker 4: people who may have and no judgment here, but there
Speaker 4: are a lot of people who might see something strange
Speaker 4: in the sky and just file it away as you know,
Speaker 4: a campfire story or something to talk about on Thanksgiving,
Speaker 4: but you also learned this is not some sort of
Speaker 4: one off siding with say a single witness. There are
Speaker 4: multiple witnesses, not just around town in Imperial but also
Speaker 4: in nearby Phillips County, Colorado. And you start talking to
Speaker 4: locals right start checking in with other people. Could you
Speaker 4: describe those initial conversations and what the townsfolk were saying
Speaker 4: when you ask them.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, this was something where, you know, this whole event
Speaker 5: was referred to as the Colorado Nebraska Drawn Mystery, and
Speaker 5: people were seeing all of these drones over such a
Speaker 5: large area at the same time, they weren't just seeing
Speaker 5: a couple in their backyard. I mean when I went
Speaker 5: out there that first night, just to give you some perspective,
Speaker 5: I mean, the very first time I looked up and
Speaker 5: saw this, I saw like fifteen to twenty of these things.
Speaker 5: There were at least a couple mother ships or if
Speaker 5: that's what you want to call them, sitting there, and
Speaker 5: then you have, you know, I would say fifteen at
Speaker 5: least of these other flashing lights surrounding it. I mean,
Speaker 5: this isn't something you could just shake off because it
Speaker 5: was there, and you have not a lot of self
Speaker 5: service it's dark, it's in the middle of the night,
Speaker 5: you're in the pasture, and this just isn't something you
Speaker 5: normally see. And yeah, when I talked to locals, that's
Speaker 5: one of the first things I did in the you know,
Speaker 5: the first couple episodes of the podcast, because you know,
Speaker 5: I'd grown up with these people and I knew they
Speaker 5: wouldn't be just making stuff up for their health for
Speaker 5: lack of a better word, and telling me stories you
Speaker 5: know that weren't true because I've known these people forever,
Speaker 5: and not just those people, but people in the surrounding counties.
Speaker 5: And one of the things that really stood out to
Speaker 5: me early was how similar these accounts were in a
Speaker 5: large area. We're talking, you know, hundreds of miles in
Speaker 5: north central Nebraska all the way down to northwestern Kansas
Speaker 5: and eastern Colorado, and you know, these people aren't talking
Speaker 5: to each other every day, but yet they're experiencing something
Speaker 5: very very strange in the night sky. Man.
Speaker 6: You know, I'm mentioning the storm chasing stuff. You did
Speaker 6: actually go to college for a meteorology correct, Yeah.
Speaker 5: So I originally went to the University of Oklahoma to
Speaker 5: study weather. I actually ended up getting a broadcast journalism degree,
Speaker 5: but I've always had this very strong fascination with weather
Speaker 5: and studying the science behind it. And that was one
Speaker 5: of the things too. If you think about these drones
Speaker 5: in the winter time, and you know in that area
Speaker 5: you have strong winds, just to geek out for a second, and.
Speaker 3: The upper levels of the app exactly.
Speaker 5: Right, you have really strong winds with low pressure systems
Speaker 5: that kind of moved through with heavy snow blizzards, and
Speaker 5: these drones would be out there and sub zero temperatures,
Speaker 5: flying around for hours on end. And that was one
Speaker 5: of the things. One of the police officers, I think
Speaker 5: it was an episode four that I was talking to,
Speaker 5: saw the winds were very strong that night and the
Speaker 5: temperatures very cold, and these drones were up for you know,
Speaker 5: six to eight hours plus at a time and wouldn't
Speaker 5: have to come down even because of the cold weather.
Speaker 4: And you also, you're speaking to just a dovetail on
Speaker 4: that point. You also speak to professional business owners who
Speaker 4: work with drones and you ask them at a couple
Speaker 4: of points, you know, would you guys fly a drone
Speaker 4: out in these conditions? And if so, why, And I
Speaker 4: love the link. There's this honest tone. You know, you're
Speaker 4: talking to the experts, and I believe upon relistening multiple
Speaker 4: times people say, at least for their business, it would
Speaker 4: be a bad idea to fly a drone, you know,
Speaker 4: with snow cover and what these treacherous winds and so on.
Speaker 6: And also it seems like another example of when there
Speaker 6: are sightings like this, it just seems to be presenting
Speaker 6: technology that isn't available, you know, widely, And I wonder
Speaker 6: if the drone experts spoke to that, like even the
Speaker 6: logistics of them being able to be out in these
Speaker 6: conditions for so long.
Speaker 5: Yeah, one of the ones that I talked to had
Speaker 5: to do with agriculture and when you have drones, it's
Speaker 5: becoming more and more common to spray different fields instead
Speaker 5: of having a spray plane do it with drones. You know,
Speaker 5: a technology is evolving so fast. But one of the
Speaker 5: interesting things I learned was that you know, if someone
Speaker 5: was to do this, they would only stay up for
Speaker 5: a very short period of time, and they can put
Speaker 5: these long arms on these drones to extend while they're
Speaker 5: flying over the fields. And this wouldn't be something that
Speaker 5: would a be on a large scale too likely be
Speaker 5: taking it happening at night in three definitely not during
Speaker 5: the winter. Yes, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: Well, okay, let alone just the how these drones take flight. Right,
Speaker 2: The drones we're aware of that we see most often
Speaker 2: that you can go out and buy right now as
Speaker 2: a consumer are copter type. Right. They use multiple blades,
Speaker 2: often for or more to go up, and then they
Speaker 2: can use those blades as they turn and tilt to
Speaker 2: move left and right basically as they're flying. The other
Speaker 2: type we know about are the more military style ones
Speaker 2: that you know, we saw during the Second Iraq War
Speaker 2: that are almost like a plane or a prop plane
Speaker 2: that have instead of a helicopter style, a rotor blade.
Speaker 2: It's turned, you know, horizontally and allows flight by going
Speaker 2: forward using wings these things. Did you notice anything like
Speaker 2: that when you physically saw the drones in the sky,
Speaker 2: like any type of how they were actually flying.
Speaker 5: So the show is called Invasion of the Drones because
Speaker 5: that's what everyone has referred to as what these aircraft are.
Speaker 5: But I mean I can say seeing them, I could
Speaker 5: never see anything that would allude to the fact that
Speaker 5: it wasn't, you know, was actually a drone. Specifically, I
Speaker 5: never saw things flying because they were at night, and
Speaker 5: a lot of the people I interviewed would say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 5: the drones, the drones, the drones and what people started
Speaker 5: calling them. But you could never in my opinion, outside
Speaker 5: of their movement. You know, we've seen videos of you know,
Speaker 5: UAPs that have been captured over the ocean by Air
Speaker 5: Force pilots and everything else. They didn't move in that
Speaker 5: type of manner, but you couldn't tell they were specifically
Speaker 5: drones outside of the way they kind of moved. The
Speaker 5: only thing that I could really justify, and a lot
Speaker 5: of the people I talked to, was that these were
Speaker 5: lights in the sky moving in weird type of patterns
Speaker 5: that weren't consistent with airplanes, helicopters, anything of the sort.
Speaker 4: I love that too, because there is this is not
Speaker 4: a spoiler to the narrative here, but there is a
Speaker 4: moment that really stood out to me where you're you're
Speaker 4: speaking with someone who has an interest in figuring out
Speaker 4: what's going on, and they straight up tell you, they
Speaker 4: say something like, Gabe, we're calling them drones so that
Speaker 4: we don't sound crazy, right, So maybe drone is a
Speaker 4: word they put on a thing.
Speaker 6: Well, you have an interview with somebody I believe in
Speaker 6: the first episode, or maybe it was a SoundBite in
Speaker 6: one of your trailers talking about the origin of the
Speaker 6: use of the term drone. I think I was actually
Speaker 6: in the last episode, the most recent one. How it
Speaker 6: even that as a concept was for the purpose of
Speaker 6: kind of like calling these things, this technology, something that
Speaker 6: didn't sound too scary or too terrifying. I don't know,
Speaker 6: I think drone is kind of ominous personally, but I
Speaker 6: wonder if you speak to that as well, what you
Speaker 6: learned about kind of the history of the idea of drones.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean as far as my my learning about
Speaker 5: like drones and stuff for this podcast. The term kind
Speaker 5: of drone started to be used a lot during the
Speaker 5: First Gulf War, which we kind of get into, and
Speaker 5: I think it's the first or second episode just a bit,
Speaker 5: but that kind of became synonymous, and you know, like
Speaker 5: you said, it is drone the new and more casual
Speaker 5: term for UFO. I don't know, I would be willing
Speaker 5: to say maybe based on all these drone sightings that
Speaker 5: people see, because it does make you not sound crazy.
Speaker 3: For lack of a lack of a better words, if
Speaker 3: you're like.
Speaker 5: That, drone out there. You know, I saw I saw
Speaker 5: some drones. Really what what did you see? Was at
Speaker 5: a plane? Was it a helicopter?
Speaker 3: Was it lights?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Right right, that's not to stick on that moment too.
Speaker 4: About the past, you do something that I think we
Speaker 4: all found incredibly impressive, which is you say, well, let's
Speaker 4: step back, right, let's scoop out through time, because nothing,
Speaker 4: you know, occurs in a vacuum, so you start looking
Speaker 4: into any possible precedents or earlier reports in the area.
Speaker 4: Could you tell us a little bit about what you
Speaker 4: found or the people you spoke to regarding that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was one of the most interesting things that
Speaker 5: I again had no clue what I would find out
Speaker 5: when I started talking to people. But if you go
Speaker 5: back in history in southwest Nebraska, it is one of
Speaker 5: the areas with one of the first recorded UFO sidings
Speaker 5: in modern history. And there's even a lot of press
Speaker 5: from the eighteen hundreds. Now how factual it actually is
Speaker 5: remains to be seen, but the story goes there, you know,
Speaker 5: were there there were some cowboys that were out on
Speaker 5: a ranch and they're sitting there watching over the cattle,
Speaker 5: and this blazing ball falls to the earth and they
Speaker 5: all turn and go see what it is, and you know,
Speaker 5: they see this cylinder shape craft. And a couple of
Speaker 5: days later, if I remember the story correctly, it rained
Speaker 5: and it started to kind of like dissipate and go away.
Speaker 5: But all of these news outlets in the area reported
Speaker 5: on this. Now, some people say it's a hoax, some
Speaker 5: people don't, but there's enough recordings in different areas that
Speaker 5: something did happen there. Now, the specifics of it were
Speaker 5: not quite sure. It's out was a long time ago.
Speaker 5: But then also in the podcast, there are a couple
Speaker 5: people who I know personally who had seen, you know,
Speaker 5: strange things in the sky and the same location where
Speaker 5: these drones were being seen. And in one of the
Speaker 5: cases actually he described his grandparents being out there on
Speaker 5: the prairie and seeing these spherical balls of light, which
Speaker 5: a lot of people referred to as the drones hovering
Speaker 5: over their farm. And that was, you know, decades earlier,
Speaker 5: and so weird things have definitely been seen in the area,
Speaker 5: and this was not the first time.
Speaker 3: Jeez.
Speaker 2: Around this time, when you're looking, when you're talking to
Speaker 2: people and you're finding these earlier reports, you're also talking
Speaker 2: to people who are reporting some pretty strange things in
Speaker 2: real time, Like in twenty nineteen, you know, twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: there's one report and I guess a photo this related
Speaker 2: to it of some kind of green substance associated with
Speaker 2: some of these sightings. Did you did anything ever come
Speaker 2: of that?
Speaker 5: Nothing came of that, but it was one of the
Speaker 5: really interesting things that transpired in the first couple of
Speaker 5: days of this drone mystery, because how the story goes
Speaker 5: is there were these weird green blobs that were showing
Speaker 5: up out on county roads and.
Speaker 6: It was the ooze.
Speaker 5: It was the ooze. It was it was the ooze,
Speaker 5: and people, you know, were convinced that these drones were
Speaker 5: dropping these things and they were related. And I mean,
Speaker 5: I'll just go ahead and tell you about it. It's
Speaker 5: a track log. It's a soil pam track log. And
Speaker 5: these are what a lot of people use in agriculture
Speaker 5: and hang on their pivots, and it, I guess provides
Speaker 5: some type of nutrients. I mean, it looks like it
Speaker 5: came from another world. If you see one of these things,
Speaker 5: it's green and mesh wrapped and it has this green
Speaker 5: you know, ooze that's like frozen and I mean, it
Speaker 5: looks weird. It's it's very weird looking.
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, yeah, so much. I've got to say,
Speaker 3: it does look weird.
Speaker 5: It looks weird if you google it. Yeah, but but yeah,
Speaker 5: the the Sheriff's department was you know, perplexed by this
Speaker 5: so much so that they tested it for meth amphetamines
Speaker 5: and weren't quite sure what it was and thought it
Speaker 5: it's got to be to be related to the drones.
Speaker 5: So but it ended up being that, you know, in
Speaker 5: that specific case, we were able to you know, figure
Speaker 5: out that it wasn't.
Speaker 4: So we're going to pause here to let the sponsors
Speaker 4: drone on for a second.
Speaker 3: Kidding, We'll be right back.
Speaker 6: And we've returned. Let's jump right back into our conversation
Speaker 6: with Gabe.
Speaker 4: Now the story is escalating now there there are going
Speaker 4: to be reports that the drones are not just you know,
Speaker 4: flitting around having a light show, but may also be
Speaker 4: dropping physical objects. And one thing you do consistently is
Speaker 4: speak to law enforcement and authorities at multiple you know, local, regional,
Speaker 4: even federal level, and at every turn you encounter something
Speaker 4: that is so common in stories of this nature or
Speaker 4: in experiences like this, wherein people will say, Okay, I
Speaker 4: saw a thing, but I want to be really careful
Speaker 4: about how I describe it and how I you know,
Speaker 4: how I will be perceived in society based on, you know,
Speaker 4: the way I articulate my experience. And then you come
Speaker 4: to a point where you start logically asking, you know, well,
Speaker 4: where could where could an aircraft come from? And it
Speaker 4: brings us to one of our favorite returning characters on
Speaker 4: this show, the Denver International Airport.
Speaker 6: Yeah, best mural game in the airport world, no question
Speaker 6: about it. Nothing weird in any of those murals.
Speaker 5: Now, I mean that there's so much. You hear so
Speaker 5: much about that place. I you know, when I hear
Speaker 5: the airport, I just think of ongoing construction because every
Speaker 5: time I'm in there, they're always like fixing something, and
Speaker 5: there's always a line and it always you always have
Speaker 5: to walk like so far to get to your your
Speaker 5: check in point because they're always fixing something. Something is
Speaker 5: always being built at that airport.
Speaker 2: Like we hear a lot about that airport, Atlanta Airport
Speaker 2: and what was there's like one or two other ones
Speaker 2: that are always under construction. I think the Guardians.
Speaker 6: The Guardian is finally done, though, La Guardian is really nice.
Speaker 6: Now finally is it's nice?
Speaker 5: It is man.
Speaker 6: Whenever I hear Denver Airport, I picture that one mural
Speaker 6: where there's this big, creepy, hulking dude in like a
Speaker 6: green rubber suit with a gas mask, swinging a saber
Speaker 6: that acts as sort of the like dividing line in
Speaker 6: this mural composition. And then there are all these like
Speaker 6: starving African children kind of like they're being sliced that
Speaker 6: by this it's very weird. It's like something out of
Speaker 6: Pink Floyd's the Wall.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's on a wall.
Speaker 5: It's the wall.
Speaker 3: I did hear they may have taken that mural down.
Speaker 6: It's a good one.
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe you sent the right email, NOL, but.
Speaker 6: About the right comment card.
Speaker 4: The reason we're bringing this up here, Gabe, is because
Speaker 4: with that logical step, you're also in your investigation, you're
Speaker 4: kind of opening a door, right, and you're not telling
Speaker 4: You're never telling people what you think is happening, like
Speaker 4: what they should believe, but you are asking people and
Speaker 4: with that we have to we have to get the takes.
Speaker 4: Because you've talked to people from so many demographics, what
Speaker 4: are some of the theories that you heard.
Speaker 5: I mean I heard a lot of theories. I mean,
Speaker 5: you know, there's and that's one of the most interesting
Speaker 5: things as you hit on earlier, and it's a case
Speaker 5: study into how people do react to the unknown and
Speaker 5: how they perceive what's going on in the world around
Speaker 5: them and more importantly, what you know, what they want
Speaker 5: to believe about that in the future. As far as like,
Speaker 5: you know, some of the some of the craziest theories obviously,
Speaker 5: like a lot of people are saying, oh, this is
Speaker 5: the government, this is this is the government doing this,
Speaker 5: you know, and I can say, you know, I think
Speaker 5: the government has a job to serve and protect, and
Speaker 5: you know, there's things we shouldn't know or be aware of.
Speaker 5: One of the most interesting things early on, and you
Speaker 5: hear this in episode for you know, with that theory
Speaker 5: is and I talked to a lot of people as
Speaker 5: this thing was really kind of unfolding in the first
Speaker 5: in the first few days. So I would say that
Speaker 5: with that type of theory, I think more than you know,
Speaker 5: people are like, oh, stuff is being hidden. I think
Speaker 5: there was just a lot of confusion. I don't really
Speaker 5: think anyone really knew what was actually happening here, because
Speaker 5: you know, some of those people wouldn't have agreed to
Speaker 5: probably talk to me if they were like, oh, there's
Speaker 5: nothing to see here. And a lot of times when
Speaker 5: and you guys are probably experts on this a lot
Speaker 5: more than me, but a lot of times when the
Speaker 5: military seems to be testing something or doing something new,
Speaker 5: it's kind of a wink and a nod like, oh,
Speaker 5: that may be us over there, and like there's not
Speaker 5: a lot of you know, there's not a lot of
Speaker 5: questions about it, and it's just kind of like, Okay,
Speaker 5: it happened, it's over. You know, we may have been
Speaker 5: doing something there, but you can't say for sure. But
Speaker 5: one of the things that you know with this is
Speaker 5: people went on the record early to say this is
Speaker 5: not us, we are not doing this, we are not
Speaker 5: involved with this, and they didn't have to release, you know,
Speaker 5: statements and just say that. And could it be someone
Speaker 5: or some you know, groups or groups that we're not
Speaker 5: even aware of. Of course it could be, but you know,
Speaker 5: for the most part, you just don't really see that.
Speaker 5: And you saw that a lot in New Jersey as well,
Speaker 5: where people would go on the record and say, hey,
Speaker 5: it's not us. We're not doing this, these aren't us.
Speaker 5: Let's get to the bottom of this mystery together. So
Speaker 5: that was one of the big, you know theories specifically
Speaker 5: that people thought early. And then of course you had
Speaker 5: the you know, the whole kind of alien UFO theory
Speaker 5: where there and there were strange things happening around where
Speaker 5: people live, like out in the country. You know, you
Speaker 5: can't you can you can't discount what some of those
Speaker 5: people people said, but I mean it, yeah, just a
Speaker 5: very It's kind of just like the real upside down,
Speaker 5: real life stranger things type of scenario where a whole
Speaker 5: bunch of weird things were going on at the same
Speaker 5: at the same time. And you heard that that officer say,
Speaker 5: you know, ten miles to Denver International Airport. I mean,
Speaker 5: that's not some guy. I mean, that's a police officer
Speaker 5: who's in a big county in Colorado. And I can't
Speaker 5: remember his title, but he may have even been I
Speaker 5: can't remember, but he was fairly high up, and I
Speaker 5: mean he's telling you this. This isn't like some random
Speaker 5: person on the street, you know.
Speaker 6: So yeah, well, I think one thing that you mentioned
Speaker 6: early on in the in the series is that the
Speaker 6: drone sightings in New Jersey recently have kind of brought
Speaker 6: this whole drone spotting thing maybe back into the zeitgeist.
Speaker 6: And one thing that I thought was interesting when that
Speaker 6: was being reported on was this idea that like drones,
Speaker 6: beget more drones, Like you have a handful of drone sightings,
Speaker 6: and all of a sudden, every Tom, Dick and Harry
Speaker 6: are sending their you know, consumer drones up to check
Speaker 6: it out, which may well have led to the kind
Speaker 6: of saturation point of all of those drones, not just
Speaker 6: a couple. And I'm wondering if you saw anything like
Speaker 6: that with this story that you're that you're exploring.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean there, you know, there were people who
Speaker 5: were talking about taking their own drones up. I mean
Speaker 5: there weren't the sheer number of people obviously that live
Speaker 5: on the East coast is in the middle part of Nebraska,
Speaker 5: and so you didn't see this on a big on
Speaker 5: a big scale, just because people weren't living there. And
Speaker 5: you can drive anywhere and still see the drones, the
Speaker 5: mysterious drones, if you will, and there would be no
Speaker 5: one within like you know, fifteen to twenty miles in
Speaker 5: any direction, and so it wasn't like their drones were
Speaker 5: getting you know, caught up with the other ones. Now,
Speaker 5: I was on the ground in New Jersey at the
Speaker 5: height of all that craziness. I found myself there, and
Speaker 5: you know that that was a little different situation where,
Speaker 5: you know, it did seem like there are all these
Speaker 5: reports of drones early and then you know, with the
Speaker 5: flight paths of JFK and LaGuardia and people taking hobbyist
Speaker 5: drones out and probably you know, the military and local
Speaker 5: law enforcement having their drones up at the same time,
Speaker 5: it kind of created this circus in the sky, if
Speaker 5: you will, and you don't really know what was actually
Speaker 5: happening there.
Speaker 4: Oh I love that circus in the sky.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, that was doubt I've got.
Speaker 4: If we can talk about this, just to stick on
Speaker 4: this for a moment longer. You are speaking with law enforcement,
Speaker 4: you're speaking with aviation professionals as well, we're talking with
Speaker 4: the FAA and so on. All right, so everybody seems
Speaker 4: to agree that there's something up there, right, there's something happening.
Speaker 4: There's no one who says, you know, Gabe, you're crazy,
Speaker 4: this interview is over or anything like that. But could
Speaker 4: you tell us a little bit more about just the
Speaker 4: basic legality of drones for anybody who hasn't operated one before.
Speaker 4: How do drone enthusiast in general comply with the law.
Speaker 4: What's the nature of say a no fly zone? How
Speaker 4: close can these get to the airport? Where can they go?
Speaker 6: What happens altitude restrictions as well, if I'm not mistaken, But.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, you know, this is something that continues to
Speaker 5: get fine tuned. You know, the FAA has had these
Speaker 5: this feature, if you will, And there's a lot of
Speaker 5: gray area of like you know, having it tagged and
Speaker 5: having to register your drone and what do you need
Speaker 5: to do Do you have to do that to fly
Speaker 5: a drone? Do you not to be able to track them?
Speaker 5: No one, in my opinion, no one really knows what's
Speaker 5: happening with those. But typically with a drone, like in
Speaker 5: the middle part of the country, the drones are supposed
Speaker 5: to be below four hundred feet. When you get above that, uh,
Speaker 5: that's where that's where you run into problems. And these
Speaker 5: were and these were low, you know, many times two
Speaker 5: to three hundred feet off the ground, and when you
Speaker 5: get into the area of an airport, they are no
Speaker 5: fly zones, and some of the people that I reviewed
Speaker 5: said that if they flew hobbyist drones near like a
Speaker 5: small airport in southwest Nebraska, northeast Colorado, northwest Kansas, their
Speaker 5: drone would come down if they entered that airspace, because
Speaker 5: it was like, especially if it was a consumer drone.
Speaker 5: But then I also talk to other people who's you know,
Speaker 5: their drones weren't impacted by that. But you're generally not
Speaker 5: supposed to fly obviously within an airport anywhere, even if
Speaker 5: it's you know, even if it's a smaller one. But
Speaker 5: you know, the restrictions are lax, and it's very clear
Speaker 5: that technology is outpacing what's happening with with drone development
Speaker 5: in all areas of the world essentially, and it's very
Speaker 5: hard to regulate from the people who I've talked to
Speaker 5: who's flying these drones, and what you can actually do
Speaker 5: about them once they're in the sky if they do
Speaker 5: appear to be doing something that is nefarious or is skeptical.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I keep remembering that line, just to add this in.
Speaker 4: I keep remembering that line about the FAA not having
Speaker 4: an enforcement arm.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's the real thing.
Speaker 5: That's well I mean ask yourself the question when you
Speaker 5: were listening. I'm not sure how far you got through.
Speaker 5: But there are all these reports of things flying around
Speaker 5: during the Colorado Drum mystery. Say a local law enforcement
Speaker 5: official calls and reports it and say it gets to
Speaker 5: the FAA. You know, what would they tangibly do in
Speaker 5: that moment, because by that time the report's been called in,
Speaker 5: the things probably not at that specific point, and they
Speaker 5: aren't there. I mean, you can't fault them because well,
Speaker 5: I mean, what are they physically going to do unless
Speaker 5: they can, you know, unless they know where that drune
Speaker 5: is originating from and they could take it down remotely.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's kind of just a weird, tricky situation
Speaker 5: all around, I feel like for sure.
Speaker 2: So let's get let's get back to some of the
Speaker 2: sightings that specifically the Navy has been seeing and finally
Speaker 2: reporting on and telling the public about. So back in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, I think it was, there's a former
Speaker 2: naval pilot named Ryan Graves who testified before Congress and
Speaker 2: he describes basically from twenty thirteen on, he and other
Speaker 2: Navy fighter pilots who would fly things, fly machines like
Speaker 2: f eighteen's they would encounter specific UAP what they described
Speaker 2: as uap as, these black or dark gray cubes inside
Speaker 2: translucent spheres, and they would see these in the sky
Speaker 2: as they're flying, you know, really fast in F eighteen
Speaker 2: and other even more advanced craft. Then in Obscure we
Speaker 2: hear a story from a hunter, a man named Alex Peterson,
Speaker 2: who he has his weapons, a rifle that has a
Speaker 2: thermal scope on it, and he's looking through that thermal
Speaker 2: scope and he describes something really similar down by the water.
Speaker 2: Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was one of the things I didn't think
Speaker 5: I would encounter, but I actually, you know, I've talked
Speaker 5: to him multiple times throughout you know, putting a story together,
Speaker 5: and he in the trailer and some of the different
Speaker 5: things you've seen in video, I'm sure online that's actually
Speaker 5: raw video from his scope of his gun as this
Speaker 5: thing is approaching him. So it's not like, you know,
Speaker 5: everyone's like, where's the video, show us the video, but
Speaker 5: this thing was, Yeah, it was approaching and if I
Speaker 5: remember correctly, yeah, he described it as a is a
Speaker 5: box with like orange in the middle of it, and
Speaker 5: it was yeah, and this was a you know, this
Speaker 5: was approaching him and he had to make the decision
Speaker 5: of what he was going to do, and he obviously
Speaker 5: didn't do it because that's illegal. You never want to
Speaker 5: do that.
Speaker 6: But to actually shoot down the drone from the grounds, right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: bad idea, not even for social media, Like no, well,
Speaker 6: you know.
Speaker 2: Results again, we're using layers. We're calling it a drone,
Speaker 2: but that doesn't sound like a dang drone.
Speaker 6: Ghost lights, you know, like swamp gas there, one of those.
Speaker 5: That's my favorite. Everyone's like, oh, it's.
Speaker 2: Swamp gas, swamp gas.
Speaker 5: I need to look at what the meteorological you know,
Speaker 5: set up for swamp gases specifically, so I can I
Speaker 5: can debunk that one in real time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're we're happy to throw our hats in the
Speaker 4: ring on that one, Gabe, Yeah, tell me, yeah, We're
Speaker 4: we're super pro swamp gas over here as well.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 2: The theory with that is that it's it's some kind
Speaker 2: of gases that could theoretically ignite and cause fire in
Speaker 2: the sky.
Speaker 4: But then you have to think about the altitude, right
Speaker 4: or the origin of the gas and the mix. I mean,
Speaker 4: that's that's the thing that I think is very fair
Speaker 4: about this investigation. We're hearing different voices with different perspectives
Speaker 4: that sometimes conflict. Will pause here for a word from
Speaker 4: our sponsors, and we'll be back with Gabe, and we're back.
Speaker 4: Everybody is trying to do their level best, right from
Speaker 4: civilian witnesses who are saying, look, let me tell you
Speaker 4: what I saw as accurately as I recall seeing it.
Speaker 4: Here's any evidence I have all the way up to
Speaker 4: you know, a really interesting meeting in Brush, Colorado that
Speaker 4: you share.
Speaker 3: You share some accounts of this.
Speaker 4: It's a strategy meeting right with multiple stakeholders, we could
Speaker 4: call them. Whatever people are seeing out there in this area.
Speaker 4: It has risen to a level, or risen to a
Speaker 4: threshold such that federal and local law enforcement are getting
Speaker 4: together to figure out what's going on. Could you tell
Speaker 4: us a little bit about their interactions and about this
Speaker 4: meeting in Colorado.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I tried to get into this meeting, and this
Speaker 5: meeting happened a few weeks after majority of these sidings
Speaker 5: really started, you know, ramping up, and I you know,
Speaker 5: when I started talking to people, I wasn't even sure
Speaker 5: this meeting happened or was going to happen, But it did.
Speaker 5: In fact happen, and basically all of these sidings in
Speaker 5: northeast Colorado, people were on the brink because no one
Speaker 5: was doing anything. And so the FAA supposedly came to
Speaker 5: this meeting and set it up. The Colorado Division of
Speaker 5: Homeland Security and Emergency Management was there, the Air Force
Speaker 5: was there, all these local law enforcement officers from different
Speaker 5: areas and all these different states had a big pow
Speaker 5: wow and brush Colorado to try to figure out what
Speaker 5: they were going to do and form a task force. Now,
Speaker 5: as we later learn from people at the meeting and
Speaker 5: one of the guys who was going to actually lead
Speaker 5: the task force formation, it never really happened. So there
Speaker 5: was a whole bunch of talk at this meeting and
Speaker 5: no one really took it to the next step. And
Speaker 5: it kind of goes back and forth. Was it the
Speaker 5: FA's job to do this or was it the local
Speaker 5: officials job to do this? And you know, if you
Speaker 5: talk to the FAA people, they'll say, well, the reports
Speaker 5: just kind of stopped. And if you talk to the
Speaker 5: local people, they'll say the FAA dropped the ball and
Speaker 5: didn't really push this forward to get it going. But
Speaker 5: for lack of a better term, it never really got
Speaker 5: off the ground, and there weren't a lot of yeah,
Speaker 5: answers following the meeting in fact, and so you know
Speaker 5: a lot of people say the reports just dropped off.
Speaker 5: But did people become desensitized to just seeing them and
Speaker 5: not report them as much? Because I still talk to
Speaker 5: people who see these things out there, though not on
Speaker 5: a big scale as they were before. And so there's
Speaker 5: just a lot of questions surrounding that whole meeting, and
Speaker 5: I'm still you know, I hope through this podcast, like
Speaker 5: I get more more clarity on that. But I did
Speaker 5: talk to a lot of people who were there, and
Speaker 5: it's just, yeah, it seems like everyone came together and
Speaker 5: nothing happened really.
Speaker 6: Well, Matt, I mean, you had a buddy, I think
Speaker 6: in North Georgia maybe who was in some strange lights
Speaker 6: in the sky. And we have, you know, historical reports
Speaker 6: of very similar things, I mean probably further back, but
Speaker 6: like the Phoenix lights, like back in ninety seven or whatever,
Speaker 6: very similar reports that usually seem to get traced back
Speaker 6: to some sort of experimental aircraft. But Matt, what was
Speaker 6: the deal with your friend?
Speaker 2: We can talk about it. I had a friend who
Speaker 2: is down near Augusta, Georgia, near Fort Eyes an hour
Speaker 2: and they this friend was seeing you know, orbs as
Speaker 2: they're described, of light in the sky doing kind of
Speaker 2: weird stuff and it's very similar and it actually the
Speaker 2: reason why I wanted to talk to you about this
Speaker 2: is because he started a social media account to you know,
Speaker 2: share videos what he's seeing. And what he found is
Speaker 2: that once he started sharing stuff, the conversation about what
Speaker 2: this could be, the possibilities, and then the stronger voices
Speaker 2: as they come in the opinions of what this potentially
Speaker 2: got weirder and weirder, and then again those opinions got
Speaker 2: stronger and stronger. And you learn a little bit about
Speaker 2: this in the podcast right about what that happens with
Speaker 2: a couple of different groups, Like I think it's the
Speaker 2: drone intelligence center that you speak with someone about just
Speaker 2: where once those ideas start being discussed openly, you can
Speaker 2: believe stranger things, let's say, than what you might.
Speaker 5: Normally absolutely and that was one of the you know,
Speaker 5: in this in the podcast, there were so many people
Speaker 5: who had different perspectives and more than like you know,
Speaker 5: at the same time of getting to the bottom of
Speaker 5: this mystery, I really just wanted to document what was
Speaker 5: actually happening with all these different people and get their
Speaker 5: perspectives and put it somewhere because it was just such
Speaker 5: a weird, a weird thing. But yes, I mean, when
Speaker 5: people don't have answers about the unknown, it's very clear
Speaker 5: that they start, you know, they can take that perception
Speaker 5: and make it into something that it may or may
Speaker 5: not be. Maybe they're right, maybe they're not. But you know,
Speaker 5: especially when people are in kind of siphon groups and
Speaker 5: in remote areas, if you're around a group of people
Speaker 5: and we get into this in one of the episodes
Speaker 5: with a psychologist or a sociologist from Stanford, but if
Speaker 5: you get into the group think mentality, and you know,
Speaker 5: you see something in the sky and the group of
Speaker 5: people validates what you saw in the sky. Even if
Speaker 5: what you saw in the sky is not at all
Speaker 5: what you saw in the sky, and you have everyone
Speaker 5: else telling you that's what you saw, then you know,
Speaker 5: you're probably likely going to believe what that group of people,
Speaker 5: for lack of a better term, says over time, and
Speaker 5: so yeah, kind of what you said.
Speaker 4: Is true, especially with the you know, the social dynamics
Speaker 4: come into play, right I believe. Our sociologist also points
Speaker 4: out it's not just a group consensus building. It's also
Speaker 4: guided by perceptions of authority, right, and guided by perceptions
Speaker 4: of you know, this is a person I trust for
Speaker 4: some other reason. Therefore, what they're saying here, even if
Speaker 4: I didn't originally think that it's going to have it's
Speaker 4: going to inspire me to reassess my initial experience.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, and so many people just don't have
Speaker 6: a strong enough perspective that it's really easy for the
Speaker 6: loudest or most confident voice in the room or in
Speaker 6: one of these discussions to steer them, you know, to
Speaker 6: to allow people to kind of like have their perspective
Speaker 6: shifted because they need that, you know. And sometimes even
Speaker 6: if someone is coming at it with authority, it doesn't
Speaker 6: mean they actually have the background or the expertise to
Speaker 6: make those kinds of claims. And I think we see
Speaker 6: that all the time in the echo chamber that is
Speaker 6: sort of online conspiracy chatter.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I couldn't I couldn't agree more. I mean,
Speaker 5: I'm not I'm not in that space as much as
Speaker 5: you know, you guys are and stuff. But based on
Speaker 5: the limit, you know, you can kind of see that
Speaker 5: as well with with the new Jersey, the sightings and
Speaker 5: other similar events of that.
Speaker 4: You know, oh Chinese weather blued shout out, you know
Speaker 4: to our boy from a few years back.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then you've got you've got stories. And forgive me,
Speaker 2: I can't remember the gentleman's name, but the person who
Speaker 2: has an inquisitive mind, who is going out there on
Speaker 2: social media trying to you know, have other people vet
Speaker 2: his work. Basically as he's taking videos and making recordings
Speaker 2: and saying, hey, I noticed that when I play certain music,
Speaker 2: these lights turn blue, and then when I play other music,
Speaker 2: they flashed o their lights' Like what do you guys think? Like,
Speaker 2: that's a really inquisitive mind trying to test variables. And
Speaker 2: so I just imagine somebody like that and I wanting
Speaker 2: so hard to prove scientifically something.
Speaker 6: Isn't that just a regular dude or was that an expert?
Speaker 6: I'm remembering the soundby but not the identity of this person.
Speaker 5: So that's the leader of this group called the drone Hunters.
Speaker 5: Basically like formed it was group this you know, this
Speaker 5: social media group and they would go out and they
Speaker 5: would you know, band together and really try to study
Speaker 5: these They were concerned locals. But with that story, I
Speaker 5: thought to myself, just like you, I mean, I'm I'm
Speaker 5: skeptical at the beginning. And so I called the sheriff's
Speaker 5: department in that specific county. And it was very interesting
Speaker 5: in that interaction because the guy told me he would
Speaker 5: go out there regardless of you know, the the lights
Speaker 5: and like the music and everything else. I was like,
Speaker 5: could I verify that someone else who lived in the
Speaker 5: area was seeing the same type of things at the
Speaker 5: time or and continues to see these things? So I
Speaker 5: called the sheriff in that specific county in western or
Speaker 5: in eastern Colorado. And you know, it was very interesting
Speaker 5: because I got this assistant at the sheriff's office and
Speaker 5: she was like, oh, let me go ask because I said, hey,
Speaker 5: you know, I'm looking into some of those mysterious drone
Speaker 5: sightings that had been reported by people who live in
Speaker 5: your area. Would I be able to talk to the
Speaker 5: sheriff for people still seeing these She waited, she put
Speaker 5: me on hold, and she came back and she's like,
Speaker 5: there's nothing that's been seen here lately, and the sheriff
Speaker 5: doesn't want to talk about it, and I was like okay.
Speaker 5: I was like I was like, I was like okay.
Speaker 5: And so then I, you know, I found people who
Speaker 5: kind of lived outside of that town or the sheriff
Speaker 5: lit and called them and they're like, oh, yeah, we
Speaker 5: see these or black lights, you know, multiple nights a
Speaker 5: week still ever since like the you know, the drone
Speaker 5: the drone mystery really kicked off, and my son was
Speaker 5: out and he was he was getting the mail. He
Speaker 5: saw him the other night, and so then the guy's
Speaker 5: story is like, oh, someone else who lives where he
Speaker 5: does is seeing these at the same time, not saying,
Speaker 5: you know, the weird nature of them, but they are
Speaker 5: seeing something in the sky at the same time. And
Speaker 5: so take that information however you want. But it's very
Speaker 5: it's very curious.
Speaker 3: That's the thing that gets me too.
Speaker 4: In the absence of transparency, speculation naturally thrives, right, And
Speaker 4: there's not anybody, it seems in the story. There are
Speaker 4: people who have strident beliefs of their perspective of what
Speaker 4: they've seen, but we don't see anybody pulling a cynical grift,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. We don't see anybody starting
Speaker 4: a UFO based cult or anything.
Speaker 7: People are hopefully people are trying to that we know
Speaker 7: of that we know of right, right, people are trying
Speaker 7: to figure this out together, and in doing so, you know,
Speaker 7: we could make an argument that perhaps beliefs become more
Speaker 7: extreme when you have people kind of bubbled in one space.
Speaker 4: Did you run into anybody who had serious contradictions about
Speaker 4: another person's perspective regarding the drone mystery.
Speaker 5: That's a great question. I honestly, I honestly didn't, because
Speaker 5: because it was such a widespread thing. It's not like
Speaker 5: someone saw something once and then the other person's like,
Speaker 5: well I didn't see it. I don't believe that, because
Speaker 5: so many, so many people were seeing things at the
Speaker 5: same time. I mean one, you know, one group of
Speaker 5: people who you know, my family is friends with even
Speaker 5: rented a party bus and went had a party and
Speaker 5: went and had like a drone watching party and was
Speaker 5: driving around you know, during the time, just for just
Speaker 5: for just for fun, for sheer fun. And so it
Speaker 5: wasn't like it was a thing where people were just
Speaker 5: seeing one or two here there. I mean, they were
Speaker 5: seeing them all over the place. And the thing, you know,
Speaker 5: I looked back at, you know, some of my notes
Speaker 5: and stuff. And one of the first reports that came
Speaker 5: in outside of Phillips County was actually in my county,
Speaker 5: uh a Chase County, and it was the it was
Speaker 5: the it was the sheriff's apartment there that reported seeing
Speaker 5: fifty of these things, you know, before people were even
Speaker 5: calling him, you know, calling them in and so I mean,
Speaker 5: and that was they sent that to to everyone, and
Speaker 5: so it wasn't even the people who were leading the
Speaker 5: sightings at the very beginning.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, can you tell us who this Matthew Spencer
Speaker 2: guy is? It sounds like a voice actor when you
Speaker 2: hear it in the in the episode, You're like, there's
Speaker 2: no way this guy talks like that.
Speaker 4: Also, can we can we hang out with him on
Speaker 4: the party bus?
Speaker 5: So I will say, I will say to protect his privacy,
Speaker 5: he was so his part was reread because but this
Speaker 5: is a real guy. He did go on the record.
Speaker 5: We had to we had to protect him. So yes,
Speaker 5: there was a voiceover or a voiceover artist reading that
Speaker 5: specific part. But this he is, you know, one real person.
Speaker 5: He was, according to all of my research, being looked
Speaker 5: at by the FAA during that time, and was reaching
Speaker 5: out to different newspapers in the area, claiming responsibility for
Speaker 5: these sightings, and so, yeah, I tracked him down and yeah,
Speaker 5: you know, it'd been so such a long kind of
Speaker 5: time that had passed. I didn't want to put him
Speaker 5: on full blast. But but yeah, but this is a
Speaker 5: guy and he was being looked at by the FAA
Speaker 5: for being behind these sidings and so that it's all,
Speaker 5: it's all one part of the weird, wacky story that
Speaker 5: is the drones.
Speaker 2: Well does he ever say what it could be like the.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so his so, I mean, I don't know how
Speaker 5: far you've listened, but basically he so his thinking was
Speaker 5: that the specific guy that there was a u a
Speaker 5: P in the area, and his life's mission was to
Speaker 5: study UAP, and he had his own drones that he
Speaker 5: was like taking them and studying the UAP, and he
Speaker 5: had reason to believe that there was a UAP in
Speaker 5: the vicinity of the drones, and that was why the
Speaker 5: drones were there, because typically in his experience, if there
Speaker 5: would be a UAP, drones followed to kind of study
Speaker 5: it or study what happened in the area, and that
Speaker 5: was kind of his assumption and why he was flying
Speaker 5: his own drunes there at the time.
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, and well that's sort of the point that
Speaker 6: came up around the New Jersey stuff, where it's like
Speaker 6: a lot of the clutter of it all were maybe
Speaker 6: hobbyists or other people who were curious who own their
Speaker 6: own drones kind of going to check out the initial
Speaker 6: sightings and then kind of adding to the traffic.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Absolutely, and so that's where he, you know, he said,
Speaker 5: said he was there, and I yeah, and obviously other
Speaker 5: people did too. Called he called one of the sheriff's
Speaker 5: offices in eastern Colorado and they alerted the FAA. From
Speaker 5: what I found out in the FAA, you know, it
Speaker 5: appears looked into looked into him and thought he could be,
Speaker 5: you know, be involved in some of these so a
Speaker 5: person of interest persons of interest which I had to
Speaker 5: listen to see what happens. But yeah, but he's very
Speaker 5: But but I but I will say that you know
Speaker 5: the voiceover actor who read that does he is very
Speaker 5: It's a very similar portrayal of the actual guy.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 4: There's a there is an importance there right to protecting
Speaker 4: someone's anonymity and what their comfort level may be. And
Speaker 4: I think it returns again and again to this idea
Speaker 4: of comfort level, right, how comfortable are we sharing this
Speaker 4: story or how comfortable are we as you know, law
Speaker 4: enforcement professionals talking talking to Gabe and saying, all right,
Speaker 4: here's what I can say, here's what I like there.
Speaker 4: There's at least one time where someone tells you they're
Speaker 4: not going to speak with you unless they get some
Speaker 4: paperwork behind it, right, like a public disclosure request or
Speaker 4: something of that nature.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean there was a lot of people you
Speaker 5: know that are weary at first, but it you know,
Speaker 5: people who live in that area like, they don't they
Speaker 5: don't really care about the perception of what people think
Speaker 5: in this capacity. They'll just say it how it is
Speaker 5: because you know, they they got to go back to
Speaker 5: the farm and work and really don't give a crap what,
Speaker 5: you know. They they don't care. They'll just say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 5: I saw this weird thing you know happen. I'm not
Speaker 5: exactly sure where, you know. Yeah, it is kind of
Speaker 5: a taboo subject where some people you know wouldn't want
Speaker 5: to talk. But like I said, I mean if the
Speaker 5: New Jersey thing doesn't you know, shed enough light on that.
Speaker 5: I mean, everyone was talking about it. It's become so
Speaker 5: mainstream now with these sightings, especially at Air Force bases
Speaker 5: in the UK and Langley and New Mexico and California
Speaker 5: in different places, that that it is becoming, you know,
Speaker 5: a topic of you know, a topic of conversation.
Speaker 4: I do have, I do have on that on that
Speaker 4: note about the locals and the rich picture that you paint. Uh,
Speaker 4: we in the region, in the town. We're really in
Speaker 4: the atmosphere here. Just on a personal note, man, how's
Speaker 4: everybody doing interview?
Speaker 5: Yeah, everyone's doing well. Uh. People are pretty excited about
Speaker 5: the podcast. They've they've really enjoyed, They've really enjoyed listening
Speaker 5: to it because it was such a weird thing and
Speaker 5: they all they all experienced it, you know together, and
Speaker 5: so to be able to you know, put this, put
Speaker 5: this together and kind of document They're always every time
Speaker 5: I would go home, they're like, how's the podcast? How's
Speaker 5: the thing coming along. It's taken a while to to
Speaker 5: get this off the ground because I do, you know,
Speaker 5: I do a few other things in LA and I
Speaker 5: wanted to kind of see how it would evolve over
Speaker 5: time too, because I talked to the same people, you know,
Speaker 5: different times, multiple times throughout the throughout the story, and
Speaker 5: so they're they're excited about it. Everyone's everyone's doing well.
Speaker 5: And you know, some people are still seeing seeing drones
Speaker 5: at there, or what they describe as drone. So it's interesting.
Speaker 6: I've said this on the podcast multiple times, but many
Speaker 6: many years ago, when I was in a band and
Speaker 6: traveling through Nebraska, I very much saw a triangular kind
Speaker 6: of kite shaped like an architectural measuring tool, hovering in
Speaker 6: the distance. And I had a little camquarder at the time,
Speaker 6: and I got video of it on like a mini
Speaker 6: DV tape, which I have lost. I have a bunch
Speaker 6: of mini DV tapes in a bag somewhere hopefully one
Speaker 6: day find. But it was very, very striking and I
Speaker 6: will never forget it. And I couldn't tell you what
Speaker 6: it was, and I haven't really seen anything since that
Speaker 6: fully explains it. In my kind of rational brain, I
Speaker 6: like to think maybe I did catch a glimpse of
Speaker 6: some kind of experimental aircraft, but it was very odd
Speaker 6: and very similar to the way some of the sightings
Speaker 6: in Phoenix were described, you know, for the Phoenix Lights scenario,
Speaker 6: like in the late nineties. But I understand this idea
Speaker 6: I think we all do of seeing something that you
Speaker 6: can't fully explain, feeling like you're sort of, in some
Speaker 6: small way, part of a larger conversation. Yeah that's interesting.
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, Yet now I want to see that, but
Speaker 5: she don't. But you don't.
Speaker 6: I'll find it right.
Speaker 3: When we've been I've been trying.
Speaker 4: I've been asking this guy for years, if you can
Speaker 4: give me that final push, Let's.
Speaker 5: Let's find the tape. Let's find the tape.
Speaker 2: I've got I've got one last thing here, Gab that
Speaker 2: i just want to put out there because I there's
Speaker 2: a feeling in the air, and there has been for
Speaker 2: a long time that the next big military conflict is
Speaker 2: on its way. When we're talking about like potentially a
Speaker 2: world war of some sort, some form or fashion, with
Speaker 2: all of these massive conflicts that are rising up around
Speaker 2: the world, and that's probably a feeling that humanity has
Speaker 2: shared since the end of the Second World War, right
Speaker 2: where we're like, oh, the next one's coming, the next
Speaker 2: one's coming. You have a feeling, at least I do,
Speaker 2: uh that something's coming. The concept of these drones being
Speaker 2: used or these whatever, these objects are being used to
Speaker 2: monitor nuclear sites, so sites that in the heartland of
Speaker 2: the United States, and you know, in places like Nebraska,
Speaker 2: in places like Colorado out in the middle of nowhere,
Speaker 2: missile sites that have nuclear missiles inside them or once
Speaker 2: did that would be launched in the event that there
Speaker 2: is a need for those things, at least according to
Speaker 2: the people at the top of the country. What do
Speaker 2: you think there's any type of experimental aircraft experimental security
Speaker 2: forces that are out there being used. Did you see
Speaker 2: any evidence of that?
Speaker 5: I mean when I was as far as like, as
Speaker 5: far as related to the drones or as far as yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean I didn't personally see that. I mean, it
Speaker 5: would be a great area too, and that was one
Speaker 5: of the theories test new things. There's not a highly
Speaker 5: dense area out there, and there's a lot of pasture
Speaker 5: and stuff. I didn't see anything, you know, personally in
Speaker 5: that regard. And when it comes to like you said,
Speaker 5: there there are there are missile silos in the area,
Speaker 5: all kind of scattered throughout the great planes, which we
Speaker 5: delve into in the podcast a little bit. But you know,
Speaker 5: one of the biggest things for me with these drones
Speaker 5: and like all the sidings and that in the Pentagon
Speaker 5: went on the record you know about Langley Air Force
Speaker 5: Base and all of those different things, is that it
Speaker 5: is a security risk because we don't know what's flying
Speaker 5: obviously those drones do we don't know what capabilities those
Speaker 5: actually have and what is behind those and you know,
Speaker 5: if you take away the surveillance aspect, but just think about, like,
Speaker 5: we don't know what's actually flying in the sky, and
Speaker 5: you've seen all the things that have happened, you know,
Speaker 5: recently with different incidents in the sky. I think it's
Speaker 5: very important to know what's flying in the sky and
Speaker 5: where and how it could could impact different things. I
Speaker 5: think that's you know, one of the biggest, biggest questions.
Speaker 6: And that's a commonality among a lot of UAP sightings
Speaker 6: is that they sometimes tend to hover around nuclear sites.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're two thousand with the disclosure projects that we
Speaker 2: heard multiple stories.
Speaker 4: Of that dating back to post World War two exactly right, Yeah,
Speaker 4: and there there are you know. I love the point
Speaker 4: you made earlier, Gabe where he said, yes, there were
Speaker 4: newspaper reports from back in the day, from decades past,
Speaker 4: but I don't know how dependable those were, right, where
Speaker 4: these just sort of were these reports with maybe a
Speaker 4: light editorial touch, a little bit of embellishment to sell
Speaker 4: the paper. That's an open question, but we do. When
Speaker 4: you see people telling the same story over a window
Speaker 4: of time, right, and they have little in common other
Speaker 4: than their location on the planet and their eyewitness accounts,
Speaker 4: as flawed as eyewitness accounts can be, when they seem
Speaker 4: to bring true and hold those commonalities, it's time to
Speaker 4: really start digging in and exploring the questions, figuring out
Speaker 4: what is going on with this strange Gordian knot of
Speaker 4: social dynamics of technology that outpaces legislation. I feel like
Speaker 4: I'm ted talking here.
Speaker 3: Gave.
Speaker 4: The main question is what do you hope listeners take
Speaker 4: away from the first season of Obscure Them.
Speaker 5: I hope listeners really are challenged to question the world
Speaker 5: around them and step out and figure out what's going
Speaker 5: on in their local community and realize that a lot
Speaker 5: of the stuff they may see, you know, on mainstream
Speaker 5: news is great for a broad perspective, but there are
Speaker 5: so many things that need to be asked right in
Speaker 5: your own backyard, and you need to be a citizen
Speaker 5: journalist and go out there and ask questions. I hope
Speaker 5: people are inspired to learn more about the stories that
Speaker 5: really surround surround them and where they live.
Speaker 3: You're here, yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 5: Yeah so, and I think too, I think, you know,
Speaker 5: I alluded to it before with my circus and the
Speaker 5: sky comment, but I think now more than ever, we
Speaker 5: have the most things, you know, I think it would
Speaker 5: be safe to say historically in the sky than ever.
Speaker 5: And I think there are a lot of things happening
Speaker 5: at the same time in the sky, and to kind
Speaker 5: of take everything into account, there's helicopters, there's UAP, there's airplanes,
Speaker 5: there's people flying consumer drones, there's probably military drones. There's
Speaker 5: probably people doing other types of surveillance. There's probably the
Speaker 5: electrical company. You know, there's a lot of different things
Speaker 5: happening at the same time.
Speaker 6: And I think, and to your point about the FAS capabilities,
Speaker 6: like it's getting so crowded out there. I can't imagine
Speaker 6: being able to know exactly what all of them are
Speaker 6: doing at all times. It doesn't even seem logistically possible.
Speaker 6: Or maybe that's more something in the realm of military surveillance,
Speaker 6: but even they would probably be struggling with that.
Speaker 5: I mean, it has to be tough. I mean, think
Speaker 5: about that. I mean you can go buy you can
Speaker 5: go buy a drone and fly it. Yeah, and think
Speaker 5: if everyone's doing that, you know, how do you how
Speaker 5: do you regulate that they sell.
Speaker 6: Them at Barnes and Noble.
Speaker 3: I didn't know that. Yeah, act now it's funny.
Speaker 4: It's funny you mentioned that game because I was texting
Speaker 4: the guys earlier this morning to see about getting some drones.
Speaker 4: So I don't know if I got the right takeaway
Speaker 4: from the show, but one thing we can say for
Speaker 4: sure is that this is the kind of investigation that
Speaker 4: needs to happen more often, you know, because for every
Speaker 4: hundred of people right, or every two hundred people who
Speaker 4: see something right, how many will come forward or how
Speaker 4: many will look further into it. One thing I thought
Speaker 4: about a lot while researching the show and listening through
Speaker 4: was the threshold that it would take for your average
Speaker 4: person to actually contact authorities. I don't know how it
Speaker 4: is over in Nebraska, but in a lot of these
Speaker 4: United States, that's a pretty high bar. So that I
Speaker 4: think as to the reality, the concrete nature of what's happening.
Speaker 4: And this is where there's something you do at the
Speaker 4: end of every episode where you and your team ask
Speaker 4: people who have similar stories or may have some insider information,
Speaker 4: you ask them to reach out to you all directly.
Speaker 4: Where's the best way for folks to contact you and
Speaker 4: your team.
Speaker 5: So there's a few different ways you can do that,
Speaker 5: and that is a great point because and I've gotten
Speaker 5: some interesting people reaching out that have seen, you know,
Speaker 5: drone things in a lot of areas of the country.
Speaker 5: And if you want to go on the website, there's
Speaker 5: a spot where you can share your story. So share
Speaker 5: your story, you can go on there. You can also
Speaker 5: hit us up on social media at Obscure Them that's
Speaker 5: obs c U r U M Underscore series and send
Speaker 5: me a DM. I'd love to hear from you there.
Speaker 5: And then the thing too that's been really inspiring with
Speaker 5: that is to see people commenting on the podcast on
Speaker 5: where the podcast is too, and it's almost like a
Speaker 5: conversation there and people are saying, oh, I saw this,
Speaker 5: I experienced this. So if you wherever you listen to
Speaker 5: your podcast to if you can, if you can comment there,
Speaker 5: that's a great way for us to see your stories too.
Speaker 2: And Gabe, we've listened through episode eight. Are there more
Speaker 2: episodes coming?
Speaker 5: Yeah, So there's one final episode which is going to
Speaker 5: come out tomorrow, and then hopefully, hopefully we're gonna like
Speaker 5: I said, I was, so I was in New Jersey.
Speaker 5: I literally decided to get on a plane as we
Speaker 5: were finishing production on these because I didn't know what
Speaker 5: would happen there. So I flew to New Jersey and
Speaker 5: was kind of on the ground. I just randomly booked
Speaker 5: a flight and took my producer with me and we
Speaker 5: went all over kind of New Jersey at the height
Speaker 5: of everything that was happening there. So we're hoping to
Speaker 5: put more episodes together and release those soon. In the
Speaker 5: New Jersey content this season is very, very compelling. But
Speaker 5: the New Jersey stuff, I'm excited to get that out
Speaker 5: there because there are a lot of high level kind
Speaker 5: of officials that were kind of talked to at the time,
Speaker 5: and we were chasing these with the Sheriff's Department in
Speaker 5: with the Coast Guard on the Jersey shore, which is
Speaker 5: very which is very weird, and so I'm excited for
Speaker 5: you all to uh, hopefully, hopefully we'll get those together soon.
Speaker 5: But but I tell you, it's it's a story that
Speaker 5: won't go away, but it just gets a stranger and stranger.
Speaker 2: I love that You're gonna have a different pellette of accents.
Speaker 5: Trust me, Gabe.
Speaker 4: Gabe has not given us spoilers, so we're right there
Speaker 4: with you. Uh, we're going to be tuning in as well, Gabe.
Speaker 4: Thanks million Man. Just full disclosure because we we uphold
Speaker 4: transparency in everything we do on this show.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: Your West coast, we're East coast. You woke up early
Speaker 4: for this.
Speaker 3: I forgot that.
Speaker 5: I just appreciate. I just appreciate you guys that doing.
Speaker 5: It's been some much fun to hang out and yeah,
Speaker 5: hopefully hopefully we can do it again soon. And yeah
Speaker 5: it is early, but I got some coffee. I'm gonna
Speaker 5: go get some more.
Speaker 3: So oh good.
Speaker 4: Absolutely Obscureum Invasion of the Drones available now wherever you
Speaker 4: find your favorite podcast. What a cool guy, you know, folks, friends, dabors,
Speaker 4: fellow conspiracy realists. It's not all the time, or it's
Speaker 4: not super often that we get to hang out with
Speaker 4: a colleague. We're interviewing just off air, and we kept
Speaker 4: it was like the no you hang up things.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 4: It was a fascinating conversation, one that will only become,
Speaker 4: I would argue, more important in the near future.
Speaker 6: Lovely fellow and super talented storyteller and weathermen apparently.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and there's so much that we didn't cover
Speaker 2: that exists within that series there. God, we didn't even
Speaker 2: talk about cattle mutilation.
Speaker 4: We didn't talk about the abduction experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't.
Speaker 2: I mean that stuff is a little more out there,
Speaker 2: right when it comes to talking with somebody who like Gabe,
Speaker 2: who you know, I was going to say, is a
Speaker 2: little more serious about that. But those those are serious topics.
Speaker 2: It's just they're definitely more fringe, I think. Then the
Speaker 2: series goes in that wants to explore, the series, wants answers.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's woven into the narrative so well, it's real,
Speaker 4: no stone left unturned thing. And I didn't get to
Speaker 4: say it when we were in the interview, but you guys,
Speaker 4: my favorite chapter title is space Potatoes, Space potastic. It's fantastic.
Speaker 4: We are not blowing smoke. We want to hear your opinions, folks.
Speaker 4: If you dig our show, you will love obscure them.
Speaker 4: And you know, the community is a big part of this,
Speaker 4: So send us your stories of strange things in the sky.
Speaker 4: You can find us via email. You can find us
Speaker 4: on a telephonic device of your choice hopefully, or you
Speaker 4: can hit us on the lines online on the Internet.
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