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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last days, the

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Speaker 1: federal government has announced that Luigi mangione accused in gunning

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Speaker 1: down a healthcare CEO boss, will face the death penalty.

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Speaker 1: If administered, it will be by lethal injection. Not only that,

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Speaker 1: the healthcare industri's PR Awards just went down and Luigi

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Speaker 1: Mangioni was not the only specter floating around the gala event.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Greace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. Just weeks after the United Healthcare boss

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Speaker 1: Brian Thompson was murdered on a Manhattan street, bleeding out

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Speaker 1: there on the sidewalk, all the superstars of the healthcare

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Speaker 1: industry Brave returned to Midtown Manhattan. There was just seven

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Speaker 1: blocks over from where shellcasings were found on the sidewalk.

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Speaker 1: The occasion the twenty twenty five PR Week health Care Awards,

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Speaker 1: celebrating the men and women that craft the public perception

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Speaker 1: of pharmaceutical companies, healthcare insurance companies, hospitals, care providers. How

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Speaker 1: do they do it through lobbying, corporate outreach advertising. Yep,

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Speaker 1: it was a pretty glitzy affair. Did anybody bring up

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Speaker 1: the disaster Brian Thompson, a father of two boys murder.

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Speaker 1: It was certainly haunting the entire ballroom. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: this will be the defense's exhibits. For instance, I learned

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Speaker 1: that Lily, the country's largest pharmaceutical company, reported forty five

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Speaker 1: billion that's b as in brother billion dollars of revenue

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four. That's nearly thirty three percent more

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Speaker 1: than last year. Their net income was up one hundred

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Speaker 1: and two percent. Their profit margin jumped from fifteen to

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Speaker 1: twenty four percent. Dang. This on the heels of their

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Speaker 1: launch something called kissun Law. It's a new drug for

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Speaker 1: Alzheimer's that costs a single patient thirty two thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: a year. United Healthcare, while mourning the murder of Brian Thompson,

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Speaker 1: reeled in a record four hundred point three billion as

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Speaker 1: in brother in revenue twenty twenty four and got their

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Speaker 1: best ever adjusted profit of ever twenty five billion. Wow, Okay,

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Speaker 1: they're all celebrating. It was at a place called gustav Vino's.

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Speaker 1: It's an upscale East side venue. I never had the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to be there, probably couldn't afford it anyway. Now,

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Speaker 1: Unlike the most recent big event for the healthcare industry,

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Speaker 1: the JP Morgan Healthcare Conference that was in January. It

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Speaker 1: was very security heavy, but this night at Gustavino's, nobody

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Speaker 1: even checked ID, asking right when you walked in, would

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Speaker 1: you like some champagne? I think I could use a

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Speaker 1: glass right now, and I'm a teetotaler. Okay, while they're

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Speaker 1: toasting champagne for all of their profits, Luigi Manngioni, according

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Speaker 1: to many, is rightly facing the death penalty. Why reality check?

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Speaker 1: A ghost gun, a silencer, multiple fake IDs, and hand

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Speaker 1: written manifesto attacking the health care industry.

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Speaker 2: Earlier this morning, in Altuna, Pennsylvania, members of the Altuna

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Speaker 2: Police Department arrested Luigi Mangioni, a twenty six year old

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Speaker 2: mail on firearms charges. At this time, he is believed

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Speaker 2: to be our person of interest.

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Speaker 1: That's right. In the last hours, a person of interest

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Speaker 1: nabbed in the fatal shooting of healthcare boss Brian Thopson.

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Speaker 1: From what we understand, McDonald's employee and Altoona in western

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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania spotted the guy and thinks he looked like the

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Speaker 1: health boss assassin, probably trying to use a fake ID

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Speaker 1: in a McDonald's. According to law enforcement and the New

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Speaker 1: York Post, the man being eyed for the cold blooded

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Speaker 1: execution of Brian Topson. The guy has a gun, a

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Speaker 1: silencer for fake IDs, and other items consistent with what

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Speaker 1: Lee was looking for in the case. But is it him?

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Speaker 1: Does he match this description? According to a McDonald's employee,

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Speaker 1: he does? What else do we know? Where? Is Altoona, Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: Western Pennsylvania, two hundred and eighty miles away from Manhattan,

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Speaker 1: a little over a five hour drive. But the manhunt

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Speaker 1: across the nation going in every direction from Manhattan. Divers, drones,

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Speaker 1: you name it, all used employed to find the killer

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Speaker 1: of the health care boss. What led to the detainment

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Speaker 1: of this guy? We also understand that in his possession

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Speaker 1: is a New Jersey ID, a fake ID, possibly used

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Speaker 1: to check into that Manhattan hostile In the last hours

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Speaker 1: police press conference listen.

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Speaker 3: A man was taken it to custody today at Altuda,

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Speaker 3: Pennsylvania this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.

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Speaker 3: He's a male, twenty six years old. He was born

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Speaker 3: and raised in Maryland. We know he has tis to

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Speaker 3: San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.

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Speaker 3: He has no prior arrest history in New York. Members

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Speaker 3: of the NYPD Detective Bureau are currently traveling to Pennsylvania

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Speaker 3: with members of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office to interview

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Speaker 3: this subject. This case was brought to a successful conclusion

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Speaker 3: based on the coordinated effort between numerous NYPD units, including

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Speaker 3: the Intelligence and counter Terrorism Bureau, our federal partners at

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Speaker 3: the FBI, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course,

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Speaker 3: members of the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania. On Thursday,

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Speaker 3: one day after this crime was committed, the NYPD released

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Speaker 3: a photo of the shooter in this case. This picture

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Speaker 3: was obtained by the NYPD during one of their extensive

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Speaker 3: video can We took that photograph and we asked for

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Speaker 3: the public's health and identifying this subject, and the public responded.

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Speaker 3: Hundreds of tips began to pour into our hotline. Each

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Speaker 3: tip was investigated thoroughly, and we began to release additional

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Speaker 3: photographs as they came into our possession. The NYPD provided

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Speaker 3: these photos to numerous media outlets. Local, national, and international

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Speaker 3: outlets released the photo via television, print, social media, and

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Speaker 3: online content. Luckily, a citizen in Pennsylvania recognized our subject

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Speaker 3: and called local law enforcement. Members of the Altoona Police

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Speaker 3: Department responded to the call and based on their investigation,

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Speaker 3: they notified the NYPD. This investigation is still active and ongoing.

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Speaker 3: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 4: I had a couple questions about document that he was

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Speaker 4: found in possession with. Can you go a little bit

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Speaker 4: more in depth about those motivations that you mentioned, was

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Speaker 4: that CEO specifically named in that document? Was there anything

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Speaker 4: more about in one to go after others? And also

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Speaker 4: in that doctor was there any indication that explains us

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Speaker 4: how the level of detail that he went into killing him, like,

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Speaker 4: is there anything else?

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Speaker 3: That document is currently in the possession of the Ottoon

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Speaker 3: of Police Department as part of their investigation, but just

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Speaker 3: from briefly speaking with them, we don't think that there's

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Speaker 3: any specific threats to other people mentioned in that document,

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Speaker 3: but it does seem that he has some ill will

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Speaker 3: towards Corporate America.

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Speaker 4: Can you point to a single linchpin that held practice case.

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Speaker 3: There's numerous lynchpins in this case, and the fact that

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Speaker 3: we've recovered an enormous amount of forensic evidence, an enormous

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Speaker 3: amount of video and once again with your help and

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Speaker 3: the public SELP. So I couldn't. I really couldn't put

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Speaker 3: it on one thing, but if I had to, it

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Speaker 3: would be the release of that photograph from the media.

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Speaker 3: We had divers in the ward yesterday that came up

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Speaker 3: negative results the passport. We don't believe that he was

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Speaker 3: planning on doing any traveling at this time. We don't

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Speaker 3: think he at this point our investigation, we don't think

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Speaker 3: he was trying to flee the country.

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Speaker 5: Person at McDonald's where they buying, what.

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Speaker 1: Were they do were not that exactly.

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Speaker 3: It was an employee at the McDonald's. But what was

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Speaker 3: the suspect do He was sitting there reading, Well.

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Speaker 1: He brought back to New York and charge here, and.

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Speaker 3: Wow, we're going to have to work that out with

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Speaker 3: the Manhattan District Attorney's Office in Altoona, Pennsylvania. He's going

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Speaker 3: to be facing gun charges there and at some point

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Speaker 3: we'll work out through extradition to bring him back to

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Speaker 3: New York to face charges here, working with the Manhattan

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Speaker 3: District Attorney's Office.

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Speaker 4: I Needa Hi Nada from the New York Post.

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Speaker 6: I was just hoping to get more details of the

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Speaker 6: capture itself.

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Speaker 1: Did he put up a fight, did.

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Speaker 6: He say anything the cops?

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Speaker 2: And we've also recorded that he published online anti health

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Speaker 2: ka industry rantings.

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Speaker 6: Can you share with us some of the services that

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Speaker 6: he posted.

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Speaker 3: On We're still working through his social media. We're going

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Speaker 3: to do a complete scrub of that. Preliminarily, like I said,

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Speaker 3: he seems that he had some ill will towed Corporate America,

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Speaker 3: but that will all come out as part of our investigation.

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Speaker 3: We're not done here. We're still going to be putting

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Speaker 3: this together. We're still going to be working very hard

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Speaker 3: to bring this to a successful conclusion.

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Speaker 1: A ghost gun, a silencer, fake IDs, and a handwritten

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Speaker 1: manifesto attacking the healthcare industry sounds like our guy. But

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Speaker 1: what else led to this entertainment in Pennsylvania? Hey, doctor

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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall joining us, our renown psychoalyst out of La,

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Speaker 1: author of deal Breaker. You can see her on Peacock Now,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany. The theory that the assassin meant to scatter

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Speaker 1: toy monopoly money over the dead body. That tells me

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Speaker 1: a lot about him. He's got a lot of time

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Speaker 1: sitting in somebody's basement, thinking and plotting. It almost rules

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Speaker 1: out a day job in my mind. But that said,

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Speaker 1: we know he's white male. We know he's got money

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Speaker 1: and a guy that can fund himself cash wise for

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Speaker 1: nearly two weeks in Manhattan. We also know that while

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Speaker 1: he may have meant to scatter fake monopoly money all

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Speaker 1: over the dead body, sending a message as if the

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Speaker 1: nine millimeter bullet didn't do that, he didn't leave the

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Speaker 1: money behind. But he did leave behind a water bottle

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Speaker 1: with DNA and fingerprints on it. He left behind a

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Speaker 1: candy or bar wrapper. He left behind a burner phone.

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Speaker 1: If they can break into that burner flown burner phone,

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Speaker 1: that is going to be a tremendous source of evidence.

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Speaker 1: But he forgot to strow the money, Nancy, he forgot it.

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Speaker 7: This guy is obsessional. In the crime world, you may

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Speaker 7: say methodical. I say obsessional, meaning he has been thinking

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Speaker 7: about this for a long long time. When I have

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Speaker 7: a patient like this come into my Beverly Hills office,

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Speaker 7: they usually are enraged at.

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Speaker 6: One person and that is all they can talk about.

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Speaker 7: What they would like to do, what the person's look

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Speaker 7: on their face would be like, you know, Nancy.

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Speaker 6: With obsessional paranoia, the person person sort of alleviates their

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Speaker 6: rage by constantly thinking about inflicting harm on the victim.

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Speaker 6: But I also think although he obsessed about this and

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Speaker 6: planned it out, this was his first crime, he did

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Speaker 6: not He did not think about what it would be

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Speaker 6: like to drop a candy wrapper, drop the water bottle.

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Speaker 6: He didn't have time to plan them. He didn't have

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Speaker 6: time to scatter the monopoly money. This was all in

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Speaker 6: his head. You'd never practiced before.

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Speaker 1: Hey, you know what, Tom Smith, former NYPD knows this

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Speaker 1: area like the back of his hand. Tom the burner,

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Speaker 1: the cell phone. I mean, there's an outside chance it's

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Speaker 1: his actual cell phone. But the reports wearing is it's

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Speaker 1: a burner phone. Lauren Colin, Yes, no burner phone, actual phone,

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Speaker 1: burner phone, Nancy, Tom Smith. What I'm coming to you

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Speaker 1: about is the phone? What an idiot? I think. Bethany's right,

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Speaker 1: this may be his first time at the rodeo. And

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Speaker 1: you know, like, well, let me think of a good one. Robert.

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Speaker 1: Remember when he and his henchman got his bodyguards, got

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Speaker 1: together and murdered Bonni Lee Bakley, and they had this

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Speaker 1: extensive to do list. Very often you can catch the

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Speaker 1: purp because of their to do list and they're over planning, right.

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Speaker 1: But the burner phone they're really hard to break into.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember in the Alexan Burrog trial they had

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Speaker 1: to bring in the Secret Service to crack his phone.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, and I agree with Lauren. It's a burner phone

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Speaker 8: and who knows what's on there. Yeah, he could just

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Speaker 8: use it for simple things. Again, if he plans it

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Speaker 8: out and knows Berner phones and what to use them for.

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Speaker 8: There may not be a lot on there, but the

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Speaker 8: ability to break in there might not be that difficult

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Speaker 8: because of the low technology that Bernarfone Giugi are and

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Speaker 8: the limited amount of information that'll be on there.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace as healthcare haun shows attend

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Speaker 1: a swinky pr award glitzy galla evening at Gustavino's in Manhattan.

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Speaker 1: Luigi Manngioni is now facing the death penalty. Boo hoo.

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Speaker 1: Some would argue that's what you get for gunning down

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Speaker 1: a CEO boss in cold blood on the sidewalk in Manhattan,

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Speaker 1: leaving behind a widow and two little boys without a father.

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Speaker 1: All the surveillance video, all the pictures that we've got

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Speaker 1: so far, talking on the phone just before the murder. Hey,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, and then I'm gonna follow up with

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Speaker 1: renow defense attorney Jason Oceans. Doctor Bethany, He's not worried.

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Speaker 1: Look at him. He has practiced this over and over

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Speaker 1: and over. He has been watching the victim like a

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Speaker 1: hawk from the moment the victim got into town. This

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Speaker 1: guy knows the itinerary by heart. He knew that there

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Speaker 1: was a breakfast, he knew that that started at eight o'clock.

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Speaker 1: He knew that the victim was going over ahead of

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Speaker 1: time from the Hilton over to the Executive Forum where

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Speaker 1: he was set to speak that morning. Now, all of

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Speaker 1: this surveillance video is from individuals and businesses along the trek.

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Speaker 1: Check it out. So what I'm getting at, Dr Bethany,

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Speaker 1: this guy's cold, cool, and calculated.

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Speaker 7: This is definitely cold blooded and methodical. To use the

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Speaker 7: panel's term, Nancy. There's one thing this guy forgot to do.

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Speaker 7: He didn't watch the Nancy Grace Show, because if he had,

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Speaker 7: he would have known that there were surveillance cameras all

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Speaker 7: along that street. And that fifteen minute phone call that

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Speaker 7: makes me wonder if this is like the DC sniper

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Speaker 7: where an older, more ruthless person recruited a younger person,

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Speaker 7: or that he's acting in concert with somebody else and

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Speaker 7: that's why he's on that phone.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Lauren, it was a call fifteen minutes before the shooting,

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Speaker 1: not a fifteen minute phone call. Correct.

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Speaker 5: Correct, The phone call occurred at six thirty am.

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Speaker 1: So Doctor Bethany. But I agree with what you were saying.

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Speaker 1: But he did not ye act for fifteen minutes. It's

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Speaker 1: almost as if he's checking in because I'm wondering is

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Speaker 1: he speaking or is he listening? I can't tell. Plus

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Speaker 1: his mouth is covered right there. And I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: why Jason Ocean is joining me re Noow defense attorney

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Speaker 1: and joining us out of this jurisdiction. Who also, you

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Speaker 1: and I have walked this track before together at Jason Ocean,

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Speaker 1: So back around cour TV and hl N Day's Jason true.

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Speaker 1: The reason I'm wondering if he was listening to something

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Speaker 1: and not talking. I prosecuted an arson murder, and just

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Speaker 1: before the guy brined his mansion down and tried to

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Speaker 1: fake that his wife died in the fire from smoking elation,

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Speaker 1: he called and checked the weather channel. Jason, I was

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Speaker 1: so happy. He called and checked the weather channel to

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Speaker 1: find out if it was going to rain the day

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Speaker 1: he was setting the house on fire. So, for all

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Speaker 1: I know, this guy's checking the bus schedule or checking

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Speaker 1: was Now I know he was not on a flight.

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Speaker 1: I know he was on a bus. But every time

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Speaker 1: I'm headed to Legardia, I call or I check online

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Speaker 1: to see if my delta flight is delayed. Okay, how

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Speaker 1: do I know if he was just checking something or

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Speaker 1: actually speaking to someone. In Bethany's train of thought, what

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Speaker 1: if he calls someone it was a quick callment, Hey

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Speaker 1: I'm on the way right now, I'm walking, I just

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Speaker 1: passed Starbucks. It could be that. It could be anything NTA.

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Speaker 9: I think the theory that, you know, the potential theory

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Speaker 9: that he was directed by someone and that's why he

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Speaker 9: was on the phone is fascinating. And then also struck

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Speaker 9: by that his lack of knowledge, you know, the overall

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Speaker 9: aspect of the cameras that are everywhere. I think he

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Speaker 9: didn't plan for that. That was the one thing in

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Speaker 9: this seemingly meticulous planning that was that was not done.

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Speaker 9: But that phone call could be very critical if we

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Speaker 9: can find out if it was an incoming or an

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Speaker 9: outgoing call, and the limited technology it has in the

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Speaker 9: ability to bust that phone up.

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Speaker 1: I got to figure out how the Secret Service actually

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Speaker 1: cracks it. You'd think it would be easy, because you know,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum with me forensic expert. When I was researching

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Speaker 1: for my last book, Don't Be a Victim, I found

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Speaker 1: out that about I think it was seventy percent or

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Speaker 1: eighty percent, some crazy astronomical number of people still use

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Speaker 1: the factory code that they had on answer machines, or

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Speaker 1: they do one two three four is their code, or

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Speaker 1: one one one one, or of course sixty nine sixty

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Speaker 1: nine that's no tried and true, or let's see lucky

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Speaker 1: numbers that they come up with, like seven seven seven seven.

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Speaker 1: It's so predictable. But then you got somebody like this

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Speaker 1: who's uh, half smart, and he's probably got some bizarre

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Speaker 1: code on his cellphone the burner. You know how long

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Speaker 1: it took them to crack Alex Murdog's final They had

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Speaker 1: to bring in the Secret Service to do it.

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Speaker 10: Exactly means you look at that phone call could have

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Speaker 10: been something as simple as he called in seek to

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Speaker 10: work because he knew he wasn't gonna make it. Who

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Speaker 10: you can call it? Six forty five am is a

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Speaker 10: very small group of people, So it could have been

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Speaker 10: he's checking the bus schedule because he's leaving that morning

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Speaker 10: and wants to make sure that's smart.

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Speaker 1: It's smart smart. Wait, you just you just really gave

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Speaker 1: me clue, Cheryl, Who are you going to call at

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Speaker 1: six o'clock in the morning?

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Speaker 11: Okay?

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Speaker 1: Not very many people.

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Speaker 10: Okay, go ahead, because if you call your mom or

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Speaker 10: a sister or something like that, you're going to scare

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Speaker 10: the day like that of them. So it's got to

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Speaker 10: be somebody that's obvious. So you can leave a message

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Speaker 10: for somebody because you know they're not at work at

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Speaker 10: you can check the bus schedule. What is interested in

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Speaker 10: that is I am his other messages, what he wrote

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Speaker 10: on the shellcasing the threat before the murder, the fact

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Speaker 10: that he would choose New York and not the victim

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Speaker 10: poeme state why not shoot him at any red light

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Speaker 10: going to work?

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Speaker 1: Oh, Cheryl, Cheryl, you just gave me another tidbit. Hold on,

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Speaker 1: I want to tell everybody. At first, we were led

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Speaker 1: to believe that the bullets were engraved in some way

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Speaker 1: with Deny defend deposed. We now know it was written

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Speaker 1: with black sharp which tells me even more. Do you

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Speaker 1: know that you can get a handwriting sample off of that?

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Speaker 1: Not that I think police are going to need a

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Speaker 1: handwriting sample when they've got fingerprints in DNA, But you

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Speaker 1: never know what might click with the jury. What about it,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl one hundred percent.

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Speaker 10: But again it tells you he took extra time to

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Speaker 10: leave a message on shellcasings. He took extra come to

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Speaker 10: get the monopoly money. That's a message. Shooting him in

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Speaker 10: New York City the morning of that meet and was

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Speaker 10: a message. He could have shot him anytime in his home,

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Speaker 10: stated a red light, but he didn't well.

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Speaker 1: CEO's and pr Guru's toast the healthcare industry's huge record

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Speaker 1: breaking profits from twenty twenty four. Luigi Mangioni sitting behind

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Speaker 1: bars facing the death penalty.

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Speaker 2: The suspect was in a McDonald's and was recognized by

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Speaker 2: an employee, who then called local police. Responding officers questioned

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Speaker 2: the suspect, who was acting suspiciously and was carrying multiple

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Speaker 2: fraudulent IDs as well as a US passport.

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Speaker 1: First, I want to go out to our dive expert.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious about the search in the lake at Central Park.

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Speaker 12: The New York Police Department dive team is called into

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Speaker 12: action after the discovery of the backpack near Hexer Playground.

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Speaker 12: The divers are seen trawling a Central Park pond behind

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Speaker 12: an area cordoned off with police tape next to Bethesda Fountain,

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Speaker 12: in a body of water known as the Lake near

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Speaker 12: Central Park boat House. The NYPD has been searching Central

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Speaker 12: Park since the Gunmo was seen escaping on an ee

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Speaker 12: bike into the park. Police have not yet recovered the

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Speaker 12: distinctive gun used in the shooting, and it's unclear if

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Speaker 12: officers recovered any evidence from the water.

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Speaker 1: Joining me special guest Ben Dobrian Virginia Beach Emergency Medical Services,

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Speaker 1: also the Dean of Professional Services at Virginia Wesleyan University.

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Speaker 1: He is an expert diver and he is actually a

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Speaker 1: dive instructor.

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Speaker 11: Well, I do a lot of police diving also and

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Speaker 11: just into emergency diving. And so I'm looking at this

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Speaker 11: on Google Maps, and it's a relatively closed area, so

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Speaker 11: that makes it a lot easier than having to go

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Speaker 11: into the ocean or you know, a great lake, or

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Speaker 11: the chestbea bay, So it makes it a lot easier

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Speaker 11: for the divers. It's also I just looked it up,

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Speaker 11: it's only four to six feet deep, so that also

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Speaker 11: makes it a lot more simple to do a dive operation.

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Speaker 11: But what they could be doing is they're could be

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Speaker 11: looking for anything that they can find. And one thing

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Speaker 11: that your listeners and watchers need to understand is anything

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Speaker 11: that exists above water exists underwater. People use it as

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Speaker 11: a garbage dump. We find you name it, bikes, washing machines,

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Speaker 11: shopping carts, so there's a lot of debris. The more

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Speaker 11: people that are around, the more people use that as

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Speaker 11: a dumping ground. But there's two things that I imagine

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Speaker 11: they're looking for just listening to the different news reports

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Speaker 11: and listening to you. They're looking for the firearm obviously,

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Speaker 11: but that telephone also, they're looking for that. You know,

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Speaker 11: those are both very small items that are relatively easy

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Speaker 11: to discard, and one of the things that if you

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Speaker 11: find an item like that, you're gonna have to recover it.

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Speaker 11: Evidence recovery is the same underwater as it is above

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Speaker 11: water from the police perspective, but the one thing we

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Speaker 11: have to keep in mind is that it's in a

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Speaker 11: different environment. Evidence above water is in air, so all

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Speaker 11: if you do is keep it in the air. But

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Speaker 11: evidence that's recovered underwater you have to recover it with

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Speaker 11: the water. If you take it out of the water,

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Speaker 11: things start to break down relatively quickly. When I'm talking

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Speaker 11: about specifically is fingerprints if you take something out of

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Speaker 11: the water, and fingerprints can last for about a week underwater,

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Speaker 11: so the clock is ticking. But if you remove whether

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Speaker 11: it's a firearm or the telephone or any piece of evidence,

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Speaker 11: you're going to want to take it out of the

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Speaker 11: water and just bring some of the local water with

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Speaker 11: it and then bring that to your forensics office and

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Speaker 11: then they're going to drain the water and then do

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Speaker 11: all the magic that they do to get the fingerprints

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Speaker 11: off of it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Ben Dobwin is joining me, not only Dan Professional

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Speaker 1: Services at Virginia Westley, and he is a dive instructor

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Speaker 1: and a police diver. Now, Ben, you just taught me

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Speaker 1: something I didn't know. Number One, when items are taken

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Speaker 1: out of the water, you have to preserve them in

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Speaker 1: preferably the ambiant water the water in which they were in,

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Speaker 1: because the moment they hit the air, it starts to degrade.

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Speaker 1: For instance, fingerprints. Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,

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Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star

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Speaker 1: of a hit series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you about the gun, but

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Speaker 1: I'm going to follow up on what Dobrain is telling us. Yes,

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Speaker 1: prints are preserved underwater because prints, fingerprints are based on

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Speaker 1: the oil in the body oil water. Get it? You

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Speaker 1: can explain better than me, Go ahead.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, Our fingerprints come about as a result of the

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Speaker 13: discharge of the fatty lipids that we have in the

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Speaker 13: pores that surround the print that's left behind. Remember, we

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Speaker 13: don't have fingerprints on the tips of our fingers. We

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Speaker 13: have friction ridges that leave behind fingerprints. So in this

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Speaker 13: particular case, we believe that this is a weapon that

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Speaker 13: has a magazine in it, Nancy. So if you have

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Speaker 13: a magazine, that means that you're going to be pressing

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Speaker 13: down on the rounds as you're loading the magazine in,

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Speaker 13: and also you're touching that surface of the magazine. The

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Speaker 13: magazine is this then fitted into a cent the grip

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Speaker 13: of this weapon and it's kind of in a protected

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Speaker 13: space there. So what Ben is talking about is right

433
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 13: on the money. You have this protected space. If you

434
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 13: can keep this in uh in the water that it

435
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 13: comes from and take that into the lab, they can

436
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 13: get around that weapon pretty quickly and raise any kind

437
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 13: of latent prints that might be there.

438
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: You did that so eloquently, Joe Scott, I would have

439
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: just said, you know, like oil and water don't mix.

440
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I'm saying here.

441
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 13: That one more thing about it, Yeah, you think about

442
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 13: you know, Ben had mentioned how densely populated, and all

443
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 13: of us have been to Manhattan, how densely populated this area.

444
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 13: This guy and pay very close than you on I'm

445
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 13: about to say this guy, if he did this, he

446
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 13: ain't the first person to think about dumping a weapon

447
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 13: into that lake, all right. So they have a herculean

448
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 13: task at hand here dealing around, dealing in this filthy

449
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 13: water where they're going to be using their hands, crawling along.

450
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 13: How many other weapons are in there. Just because you

451
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 13: find a firearm merged doesn't mean it's the firearm that

452
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 13: was used.

453
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: Ben, I want to follow up with you on this

454
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: is a great thing to throw at Jason Ocean's when

455
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: we come back. But this guy did so much planning, Ben,

456
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: but I bet he didn't measure the depth of this

457
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: lake and has no idea even though it's big, it's

458
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: twenty acres, I guarantee you he didn't know that it

459
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: was just four to six feet deep.

460
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 11: And I just found that Google. And if you go

461
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 11: a little bit further north, it looks like there's the

462
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 11: reservoir in the park and that's forty feet deep, So

463
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 11: that is significantly deeper. I mean it's obviously you can

464
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 11: dive that. It just takes a little bit longer to

465
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 11: get down and get up. But four to six feet

466
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 11: is super easy. If they find something, they can just

467
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 11: pop their head out of the water and look at it.

468
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 11: And what he did said is we've done training dives

469
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 11: in local lakes where we have found multiple guns. What

470
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 11: we weren't looking for. I mean, we're just doing a

471
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 11: training dive and we found guns. I found a flint

472
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 11: lock pistol. I wasn't looking for one time, because you know,

473
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 11: in a populated era of people think, oh if I

474
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 11: if I discard a firearm in this lake, nobody will

475
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 11: ever find it. Well, you know it's hard to see,

476
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 11: but if people are looking for it, they're gonna find it.

477
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 11: You know, the New York City Police dive team is

478
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 11: one of the most respected in the world. If it's

479
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 11: in that little area there, they're going to find something.

480
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Luigi Mangioni sitting behind bars

481
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: facing the death penalty death buy needle this as he demands,

482
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: I want a laptop. Waen waen waen? What that's right?

483
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: Mangione's laptop request is now up to the jail after

484
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: the judge Anow says the judge has no problem with it. Hmm.

485
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: Maybe Emanngioni can better communicate with all of his fans

486
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: sending him money and sexy pictures of themselves. But right now,

487
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: Emanngioni's request to get a laptop behind bars is up

488
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: to Brooklyn's Metropolitan Detention Center the MDC, as he awaits

489
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: trial in the murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

490
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: His lawyer's proposing he gets a specifically configured laptop that

491
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: would only allow him to review case materials. Right, and

492
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: did he doesn't have a phone. Okay, let's just stop

493
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: right there and remember Brian Thompson bleeding out on the sidewalk.

494
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: You think he thought of his two little boys, maybe

495
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: his wife. That morning, this is what happened, laptop and

496
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: glitzy party at Gustavino's. Be damned. A man napped in

497
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: western Pennsylvania in the Altoona area at a local McDonald.

498
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: He has now been arrested on charges relating to a gun,

499
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: sources telling us it was a so called ghost gun,

500
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: a gun that has no serial number that is often

501
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: put together with a kit. The parts of the gun

502
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: purchased or obtained separately, a ghost gun and a silencer,

503
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: along with a hand written manifesto attacking the healthcare industry. Wow,

504
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: it's joining me right now is expert Tom Smith, NYPD,

505
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: detective thirty years and the star of the gold Shields podcast.

506
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: Tom again, thank you for being with us. We've learned

507
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: a lot about the gun. At first, it looks like

508
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: it's been manipulated with a homemade silencer on it. We

509
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: are now understanding that is not a homemade silencer. That

510
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,719
Speaker 1: this is a weapon that is often used by narians

511
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: to put down that's nice word for it, animals. The

512
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: magazine is in the grip, and when many people thought

513
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: that it was jamming and he was clearing it after

514
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: each shot, which I thought he did really calmly and methodically.

515
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: We now know it may be a bolt action that

516
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: has to be manually cycled after each shot. That changes things,

517
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: Tom Smith.

518
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 8: Yes, it does, because now he knows he's proficient in

519
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 8: that weapon, knowing every time he fires it, he's going

520
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 8: to have to chamber around. And if I could show

521
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 8: you real quick, this is a glock, not the same

522
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 8: weapon that was used, but but similar functioning. Every time

523
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 8: he fires that weapon, he'd have to click it like

524
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 8: this in order to chamber around to fire the next round.

525
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 8: And the thing about him is he knows the weapon

526
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 8: because he knows that's coming. It's not a surprise to him.

527
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 8: So he fires around, has to clear it, fire another round,

528
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 8: clear it, to chamber around each time. And he knows

529
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 8: the weapon and he knows that is coming and has

530
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 8: to do that, and that's why he stays kind of calm.

531
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 8: Any other criminal I've ever dealt with in New York City,

532
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 8: what's a weapons jams, They throw it away, they run.

533
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 8: He knows exactly how this weapon is being used.

534
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: Okay, for once, the movie's got it right, Tom Smith.

535
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: Because in the movies you always see the person jam

536
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: the weapon and they just throw it or they throw

537
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: it at the person they're shooting at. Here when you

538
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: look at the video, he's walking toward the victim. I

539
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: guarantee you, Tom Smith, this guy practiced probably at a

540
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: gun range.

541
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, and you probably have practiced with that weapon, because,

542
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 8: like I said, there's a big difference when you're viewing

543
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 8: this whether someone's panicking or anticipating the movement he's doing.

544
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 8: He knows what he has to do to fire that weapon.

545
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: You know, I want you to explain one more time

546
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: for novices out there about the bolt action. We now

547
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: don't believe the gun was jamming. Everybody believe it was

548
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: a bolt action that has to be manually recycled after

549
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: every shot. Could you explain that and demonstrate one more

550
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: time please, Tom.

551
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 8: Yeah, this is a nine millimeter weapon and the magazine

552
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 8: port is in here just like you mentioned, it's at

553
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 8: the bottom of the handle. So once a round is fired,

554
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 8: he has to manually clear that round to chamber another

555
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 8: round in order to fire it. He'll fire it again

556
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,239
Speaker 8: and do the same thing over and over again. So,

557
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 8: like I said, he's very aware of how that gun

558
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 8: he's used and what he used to do to fire.

559
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: You know another issue, Tom Smith, and I'm going to

560
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: bring everybody back in in just a second. But Tom,

561
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: another feature of this particular gun that is traditionally used

562
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: by veterinarians to put down animals is it has a

563
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: very quiet shot, very quiet shot. And the gun we're

564
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: talking about has a long as we saw, could you

565
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: hold yours up again as a very long barrel like that?

566
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: This one even seemed a little bit longer than yours.

567
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 1: And that can be confused because it looks like a silencer,

568
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 1: but it's not.

569
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 8: It's a long weapon and easier to aim because you

570
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 8: have more of an angle of your target in front

571
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 8: of you. So, like I said, he is very aware

572
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 8: of how this weapon is used and what it needs

573
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 8: to do to fight.

574
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: Is this gun is a specialized gun. This guy practiced

575
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: and practiced, and he had everything planned out. You know,

576
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: he practiced with the murder weapon. He didn't just trot

577
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: over to Connecticut and buy a gun and then use

578
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: it the next day. That did not happen. Think of

579
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: the mindset here. This is a gun he brought with

580
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: him on a bus, didn't get on a plane because

581
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: he couldn't get through TSA with a gun for Pete's sake.

582
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 5: And.

583
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: The airlines know who you are, They had your picture,

584
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: they have you every three feet in the airport. He

585
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: didn't want that. He wanted to travel with his gun.

586
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 1: What criminal that's practiced and practiced and planned and plan

587
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: was to use an aligen gun.

588
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 8: Well, it's hard to trace. That's why if you're using

589
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 8: a normal weapon with a serial number and so forth,

590
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 8: it's easily traced, whether you find it in a month

591
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 8: or a year. This we have no idea whether there's

592
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 8: any serial numbers on it, whether there's any distinguishing markings

593
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 8: on it. So it could be very benign in the

594
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 8: in identifying it. And that's why he paid.

595
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: What I'm saying, doctor Bethany Marshall, is that this guy

596
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: did not just go into a gun shop and buy

597
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: the gun just before the murder. If he planned this

598
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: methodically to get to Manhattan and to carry out this crime,

599
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: staking out the scene the moment he got there November

600
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 1: twenty four to ten pm, he didn't go to bed.

601
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: He went to this location where the forum was going

602
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: to be held. He didn't buy a new gun. I

603
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 1: don't think I think he brought his preferred weapon with

604
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: him after practicing for hours on end.

605
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 7: This guy is upper middle class. This guy has money,

606
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 7: He has disposable money, and he had access to a

607
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 7: weapon in a professional environment. This is not somebody who

608
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 7: goes to a gun shop with a fake ID and

609
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 7: tries to skip the background check and gets a gun.

610
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 6: This is a man who knows this weapon.

611
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 7: This is also a man who has researched where this

612
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 7: CEO is going to be.

613
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 14: Early reports on the shooting of Brian Thompson pointed to

614
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 14: a silencer being used or a modern version of a

615
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 14: rare World War two gun. The investigators found themselves looking

616
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 14: into a Connecticut gun store they believe may have sold

617
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 14: the weapon. That lead did not pan out, but now

618
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 14: Chief Detective Joseph Kenny says they are looking into the

619
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 14: use of a veterinary gun being used as the murder weapon.

620
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 14: Kenny says the weapon is normally used on farms and

621
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 14: ranches and an animal needs to be put down. The

622
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 14: animal can be shot with this type of weapon that

623
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 14: doesn't cause a large noise.

624
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: Welcome back. In the last hours, a man nabbed at

625
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,399
Speaker 1: a local McDonald's. The twenty six year old taking into

626
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: custody on gun charges, apparently had a ghost gun, a silencer,

627
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: multiple fake IDs, and a hand written manifesto attacking the

628
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: healthcare industry. It's not just this moment. This moment is

629
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: the culmination of thousands of law enforcement man hours like this.

630
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 15: Amid speculation that the shooter traveled to New York on

631
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 15: a bus that left from Atlanta, NYPD officers have traveled

632
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 15: south for part of their investigation. APD confirmed through a

633
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 15: statement that its officers are assisting the NYPD investigators, whom

634
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 15: arrived in Atlanta on Saturday. Sources say they are searching

635
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 15: through video from the bus station in town and to

636
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 15: others along the route to New York City. Officers are

637
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 15: working to find a name from tickets purchased for a

638
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 15: November twenty fourth Greyhound trip.

639
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: He noticed, the investigative reporter said, looking for a name,

640
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 1: I guarantee you it's not going to be his name.

641
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: Let me just say that the security and verification procedures

642
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: at the bus station a lot less stringent than it

643
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: is at the airport. He could have gone in with

644
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: any fake ID and gotten a bus ticket under a

645
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: fake name, just like he had a fake ID that

646
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: he got out of Jersey, just like he used a

647
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: fake ID when he checked into that youth hostel. And

648
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: speaking of the youth hostel, Lauren Colin joining the investigative

649
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:46,479
Speaker 1: reporter and star a primetime crime on YouTube, Lauren, much

650
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 1: was made of him flirting with the receptionist. That's not

651
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 1: what happened. We now know that to check into that hostel,

652
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 1: and it's not just at a hostel. That's where they're

653
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: doing it. Fancy hotels too. When they say, you know,

654
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 1: we need some ID, look at them. The next time

655
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: they ask you that, they look back up at your face. Right. So, yeah,

656
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,720
Speaker 1: there was a little flirtation. You can see him smiling

657
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: right there. That's about ten thousand dollars worth of orthodontia

658
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 1: on that mouth right there. But that's another can of worms, Lauren. So,

659
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: I don't know that the clerk was flirting with him.

660
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: She very well may have said, pulled down your mask.

661
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: I got to make an ID. I mean, this is

662
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: not the ritz, okay, right right, and you're correct, Nancy.

663
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 5: I did visit the hostel, and everybody working there was friendly,

664
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 5: not overly friendly. Something I noticed was that there were

665
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 5: multiple cameras throughout the lobby of the hostel. There were

666
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 5: cameras outside of the hostel as well, so my understanding

667
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 5: is they most likely have multiple angles of this guy,

668
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 5: of this shooter. I also visited the businesses surrounding the hostel.

669
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 5: I went inside to a local bodega. I went inside

670
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 5: to a dunkin and they informed me that they not

671
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 5: do any sort of talking about what they know to

672
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 5: anyone but the NYPD, but also that they turned over

673
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 5: footage as well. So I believe that NYPD is going

674
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 5: through all of the footage they have right now, which, look,

675
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 5: it's gonna take some time. This is not gonna happen overnight,

676
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 5: but I think there's going to be a lot more

677
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 5: and stills being released of this guy and what he

678
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 5: did during his time in New York before the shooting.

679
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,479
Speaker 1: Straight out to you, Cheryl McCollum, let's look at this guy.

680
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: Who is he? Based on everything we know right.

681
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 10: Now, Nancy, I think one thing that's imperative that everybody's

682
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 10: not mentioning is when you talk to the clerk at

683
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 10: the hostel. If this were my case, the first thing

684
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 10: I would have asked her is does he have an accent?

685
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 10: And that's why I think again, they are focused on Atlanta.

686
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 10: They know where the bus originated, they know what he

687
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 10: sounds like. If he's from here, they're gonna know it.

688
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 10: The other thing about that weapon, remember we have three words,

689
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 10: which means three possible showcasing. So that gun either jams

690
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 10: and we have an unspent or we have three spent,

691
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 10: which means he missed one.

692
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: Possibly a ghost gun, a silence, sir, fake IDs, and

693
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 1: a handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry. Sounds like our guy.

694
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: But what else led to this detainment in Pennsylvania? To

695
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall joining us for now it psychoanalyst way in,

696
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, what's your take on it? Who is he?

697
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 6: Nancy? This guy is upper middle class, he's educated. He

698
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 6: knew to do this hit.

699
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 7: At the healthcare conference because he's sending a message. If

700
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 7: he did it at a traffic stop or at the

701
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 7: victim's home, it would not send the message. The scribbling

702
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 7: on the ammunition he caught that from researching internal documents

703
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 7: at insurance and companies and citing words that employees or

704
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 7: claims processors use to deny claims. I am going to

705
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,720
Speaker 7: guess that he had a family member who has denied care,

706
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,479
Speaker 7: and because of that denied care, the family member died

707
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 7: and he cannot get over it. So this is although

708
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 7: he looks like a street thug on you know, at

709
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 7: first glance.

710
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 12: He is not.

711
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: He's got a square chin, perfect teeth, wax between the eyebrows,

712
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: eyes going slightly down at the outer edges. He can

713
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: change a lot, but there are some things he can't change,

714
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,720
Speaker 1: like his fingerprints and DNA.

715
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 13: Joe Scott, Yep, you're absolutely right. Those are unique to him, Nancy.

716
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 13: And here's one other thing. I did a little digging

717
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 13: one of this this weapon that they keep referring to,

718
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 13: that's the veterinarian euthanasia weapon. They believe might be a

719
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 13: what's referred to as a State six brand weapon. My

720
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 13: research revealed that there are essentially, I think either four

721
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 13: or five locations in the metro area where these can

722
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 13: be specifically purchased. And I think that if they believe

723
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 13: that that's what this is and that he transported it,

724
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 13: I think you're on the money here. Relative to getting

725
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 13: on a bus with this thing, he may have picked

726
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 13: it up down there at some point in time, and

727
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 13: it's not a very efficient weapon for doing the task

728
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 13: that he was trying to do. So I don't know,

729
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 13: maybe he was trying to you know, he's not going

730
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 13: to draw attention to himself, like when you buy a

731
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 13: suppressor separately from a weapon perhaps, and it's not very

732
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 13: efficient because you have to you lose your site picture

733
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 13: every time you have to rotate that bolt on the

734
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 13: back of that weapon, which is what he's doing. He's

735
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 13: spending it. I think that many of the answers that

736
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 13: we're looking for are probably going to rest as well.

737
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 13: And this is something that we will hear a lot about,

738
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 13: I believe, with United Healthcare and their chief security officer,

739
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,919
Speaker 13: who was actually hired back in August of twenty twenty three,

740
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 13: I want to know what she knows. I want to

741
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 13: know what her assets know within that business. Are their

742
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 13: letters that have been written, are their lawsuits that have

743
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 13: been filed relative to what doctor Bethany mentioned about healthcare

744
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 13: claims that may have been blown off or maybe they

745
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 13: didn't receive what they wanted. But trust me, the security

746
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 13: apparatus within that company is going to be working on well.

747
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 1: MANGIONI can enjoy his laptop and the insurance pr jurus

748
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: and CEOs can enjoy their champagne. I will look forward

749
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: to the jury trial of Luigi Mangioni. Goodbye friend,