Speaker 1: Good morning, Pete Sen. Welcome to woka F Daily with
Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Recording from the Home Bunker, Folks,
Speaker 1: Today we are doing a special episode of woke F
Speaker 1: Daily with our friend, doctor Jonathan Metzel. We decided to
Speaker 1: turn the tables this episode. Usually for the past couple
Speaker 1: of years, I mean, Jonathan and I have been talking
Speaker 1: weekly since the beginning of the pandemic. So just think
Speaker 1: about how many conversations you've listened to with the two
Speaker 1: of us. But today we decided to turn the tables.
Speaker 1: We went live from Vanderbilt University where Jonathan teaches a
Speaker 1: class on COVID and society, and essentially today's lecture was
Speaker 1: with regard to how COVID has changed our politics and
Speaker 1: has it changed it forever? And has it changed forever?
Speaker 1: And so in this conversation, instead of me asking Jonathan questions,
Speaker 1: Jonathan asked me questions and turns the table on how
Speaker 1: I think that media has changed how the public views
Speaker 1: public health, whether or not we'll ever get back to
Speaker 1: a community minded space with regard to public health, where
Speaker 1: we really are our brothers, sisters, our friends, keepers and
Speaker 1: we care about their well being and so For me, folks,
Speaker 1: this was a really fun episode to do because I
Speaker 1: miss university. There is a war on education right now
Speaker 1: at K through twelve level, but also at the higher
Speaker 1: education level, and so there are days when I think
Speaker 1: to myself, I couldn't imagine going through and getting my
Speaker 1: degree right now, right Like I remember thinking about you know,
Speaker 1: political science and framing it in terms of how I
Speaker 1: want it to be a force for good and be
Speaker 1: a public servant and helped shape and change the nation.
Speaker 1: And that was at a time when I thought that
Speaker 1: we were on an upswing. So what does it mean
Speaker 1: to be getting a degree in politics or getting a
Speaker 1: degree in journalism at this current time? So the opportunity
Speaker 1: to both speak with and listen to young people for
Speaker 1: me was a huge treat. So I hope that you
Speaker 1: all enjoy this. Who I guess it would be a
Speaker 1: Freaky Friday episode with Jonathan where Jonathan turns the tables
Speaker 1: and puts on his host hat and I enter into
Speaker 1: the guest's chair. So coming up next, my conversation with
Speaker 1: doctor Jonathan Metzel on COVID and society. It's no secret
Speaker 1: that the news is horsepill hard to swallow. Thankfully, there's
Speaker 1: The Bituation Room podcast hosted by comedian and commentator Francesca
Speaker 1: free Erntini, for a lighter take on the heavy stuff.
Speaker 1: Each week, The Bituation Room brings you progressive comedians, experts,
Speaker 1: and activists to break down the issues in a way
Speaker 1: that won't just leave you crying under a weighted blanket.
Speaker 1: Get The Bituation Room on Apple Podcasts, Scotify, Stitcher, and
Speaker 1: streaming on YouTube and Twitch. All right, welcome to class, everybody.
Speaker 1: I am delighted to turn the tables today. For the
Speaker 1: past gosh, how long has it been. Danielle in the pemic.
Speaker 1: We've been talking every dayn week for the pandemic. So,
Speaker 1: Danielle is a dear friend of mine and we used
Speaker 1: to do television together on MSNBC and other stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Danielle and I were also the only people who were, like,
Speaker 1: I think, adequately freaking out before the pandemic happened. And
Speaker 1: so like everybody else was like, oh, two weeks of
Speaker 1: canned soup and cash, and Danielle and I would be
Speaker 1: in the back being like, this ain't two weeks. I
Speaker 1: can't soup. This is like you know the world is
Speaker 1: going to implode or something like that. And so we've
Speaker 1: been actually doing a TV segment every week over the
Speaker 1: course of the entire pandemic processing and every week we say,
Speaker 1: next week, we're going to talk about puppies, or we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about ponies, or we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about springtime. Because we're not like dour people. But what
Speaker 1: we need is for the bummer news to stop happening.
Speaker 1: But instead what happens is the bummer news keeps coming.
Speaker 1: And so I've got a bunch of slides about politics,
Speaker 1: which maybe' all go into afterwards, but let me just
Speaker 1: say a few things that I am delighted to welcome
Speaker 1: to class today my good friend Danielle Moody. Danielle hosts
Speaker 1: a bunch of different shows. The most important ones by
Speaker 1: far are wikaf and Democracy, which are both daniel word
Speaker 1: of those stream everywhere. They stream everywhere. You guys get
Speaker 1: your podcasts, everywhere you get your podcasts. I love this
Speaker 1: on your bio. It says never sorry about shaking things up.
Speaker 1: We're calling bs when she sees it. Danielle has been
Speaker 1: an apologetic commentator about America's racism problem. She made waves
Speaker 1: on election night in twenty sixteen when she called Donald
Speaker 1: Trump's win White Supremacies lest stand video clips went which
Speaker 1: went viral and she's the really I mean, how many
Speaker 1: can you tell us, Danielle really quickly for the audience here,
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about your media background before
Speaker 1: we get where we get going. Sure, So my background
Speaker 1: is actually in politics and policy. Um. I worked on
Speaker 1: Capitol Hill, uh did education policy, was the lead lobbyist
Speaker 1: for New York City's education lobbying efforts under Mayor Bloomberg
Speaker 1: transition to education environmental education. And I got into media
Speaker 1: by way of the marriage equality fight, so in the
Speaker 1: early two thousands became a national spokesperson for marriage equality.
Speaker 1: From there transitioned into doing more policy around LGBTQ issues
Speaker 1: and recognize seeing that there are two ways to change,
Speaker 1: you know, to change hearts and minds. One of them
Speaker 1: is through media and the other is through policy. So
Speaker 1: that's how I became more active in terms of writing
Speaker 1: and speaking and creating shows that kind of cut through
Speaker 1: the bs, which you can only get so much in
Speaker 1: soundbites on television. And so podcasting and creating content is
Speaker 1: a way for us to really delve into the conversations
Speaker 1: that mainstream media misses wonderful. And as I was just saying,
Speaker 1: you and I have been speaking every single Tuesday and
Speaker 1: Wednesday for the past well since really the second week
Speaker 1: of the pandemic. Yeah, and the class that you're speaking
Speaker 1: in front of there's a audience of students in front
Speaker 1: of me, which will go to in a little bit here.
Speaker 1: But the theme of this class is COVID and society,
Speaker 1: and we're kind of asking how the pandemic change the
Speaker 1: world as we know it, and also how the pandemic
Speaker 1: is changing the future of the future as you know,
Speaker 1: what's the trajectory that is being altered or exposed as
Speaker 1: a result of the pandemic. And so we've done different
Speaker 1: weeks on science, expertise, race, things like that, and today
Speaker 1: we're talking about politics and protests. And I thought, man,
Speaker 1: I've been talking about this every week with Danielle, and
Speaker 1: so I thought, let's do let's do this conversation in
Speaker 1: front of the class and then we'll bring in the class.
Speaker 1: And so the theme today is how did the pandemic
Speaker 1: change either politics as we know it, the future of politics,
Speaker 1: or the future the future of the world in a
Speaker 1: particular way. Wow. I mean, one, I love the fact
Speaker 1: that you do this class, and to those are really
Speaker 1: great questions. I think that the way in which politics
Speaker 1: has changed is fundamentally we have to think about the
Speaker 1: fact that we had never villainized in the way that
Speaker 1: we've seen public health done so over the last couple
Speaker 1: of years, where we were always on the same page,
Speaker 1: like don't we all want to be healthy, don't we
Speaker 1: all want to be safe? Don't we all want what's
Speaker 1: best for our friends, our neighbors, our colleagues, And that
Speaker 1: fundamentally shifted where you had some people then this is
Speaker 1: pre vaccine, right, because we've been talking for a long time, Jonathan, Like,
Speaker 1: pre vaccine, it was wear a mask. Once we understood
Speaker 1: what COVID was and how it was playing out in
Speaker 1: the beginning, it said we were told, wear a mask,
Speaker 1: it'll keep yourself safe, it'll keep those around you stafe,
Speaker 1: have six feet of distance, right, wash your hands, And
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you saw this breakdown with the
Speaker 1: Republican Party and the far right deciding that by telling
Speaker 1: people to be in community with one another in order
Speaker 1: to keep all of us safe, that somehow that was
Speaker 1: in violation of their rights and violation of their liberty right.
Speaker 1: So they wanted the freedom to infect. And so I
Speaker 1: think that by virtue of this, we lost trust in
Speaker 1: our institutions like the CDC and the WHO where you know,
Speaker 1: were they making decisions as the pandemic continue to progress.
Speaker 1: Were they making decisions that were about our public health
Speaker 1: or about politics so as not to be called out
Speaker 1: by the far right? If they're saying, hey, you need
Speaker 1: to quarantine for two weeks, well then you have CEOs
Speaker 1: and shareholders that are concerned that if workers are quarantining
Speaker 1: every time that they get sick for this long period
Speaker 1: of time, well then what happens to productivity? What happens
Speaker 1: to churn? So are we making decisions about capitalism or
Speaker 1: are we making them about people's well being? And as
Speaker 1: time went on, as we would continue in our conversations,
Speaker 1: I think that we saw that, you know, it's kind
Speaker 1: of a mixed bag, right, that these decisions are in
Speaker 1: fact have become politicized, and I think that they will
Speaker 1: be into the future, which is really detrimental in terms
Speaker 1: of how we need to operate because I don't think
Speaker 1: that COVID is going to be our last health pandemic, right,
Speaker 1: And I don't necessarily think that even with each new
Speaker 1: variant that we've seen, that we've shown that we've learned
Speaker 1: really about what it means to not only care for ourselves,
Speaker 1: but to care for those around us and the most
Speaker 1: vulnerable frankly around us. So I do think that it
Speaker 1: has shifted our politics in a way where, you know,
Speaker 1: we thought that we could debate climate change, for instance,
Speaker 1: and science, and that there were two different types of science.
Speaker 1: And this is the way that we've allowed that same
Speaker 1: type of thinking to take over public health. I think
Speaker 1: that's exactly right, and it ties really nicely into a
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff we've been talking about in class. Politics,
Speaker 1: of course, functions on multiple levels. Politics is the politics
Speaker 1: of public health certainly, and what it means. I mean,
Speaker 1: I was just thinking the whole idea. When I was
Speaker 1: in medicool, for example, I learned that public health means
Speaker 1: it's not so much about saving the drowning person from
Speaker 1: the river. It's about making sure they don't fall into
Speaker 1: the river the first place, which means everybody working together
Speaker 1: to put up guardrails around the water, teaching people to
Speaker 1: swim in advance. It takes people kind of working together.
Speaker 1: It feels like in many ways our country has kind
Speaker 1: of fallen into the river, and the idea that we
Speaker 1: could even build guardrails or think about prevention in a way,
Speaker 1: it just becomes so much more unmatchable, which is ironic, right,
Speaker 1: because we've seen what the pandemic can do. But just
Speaker 1: the idea of public health itself, the idea that people
Speaker 1: are working together communally to prevent things from happening before
Speaker 1: they happen, seems awfully fraught right now, would you say,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that it's it's terrifying with how
Speaker 1: fraught it is. Right when we think about thee like,
Speaker 1: this is a virus that spreads through community, So how
Speaker 1: can you not be community minded when trying to find
Speaker 1: your way to solutions? Right, We had an opportunit unity.
Speaker 1: I think you and I have discussed this and maybe
Speaker 1: our opinions differ. We had an opportunity, you know, at
Speaker 1: the beginning of vaccinations to get everybody vaccinated to kind
Speaker 1: of to work to eradicate COVID. We never thought that
Speaker 1: we would then have twenty five percent of the population
Speaker 1: that would be like, no, I'm good, right, I think
Speaker 1: that you're putting a microchip in my arm, right, and
Speaker 1: not believe doctors who have no agenda, they're not running
Speaker 1: for office, they don't need to be elected, right, So
Speaker 1: why wouldn't you believe what doctors and nurses and health
Speaker 1: practitioners are saying because you've been told that they're out
Speaker 1: to get you. And so I don't know how we,
Speaker 1: as one of guests has said to me recently, how
Speaker 1: we knit our communities back together where we trust one
Speaker 1: another right, where we trust that we're in this for
Speaker 1: the betterment of ourselves and our community at large. And
Speaker 1: if we can't get on the same page about not
Speaker 1: wanting to kill our neighbor because we happen to cough
Speaker 1: on them, or you know, or we refuse to wear
Speaker 1: a mask, then I don't know what we can get
Speaker 1: on the same page about. And that's what scares me. Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm David Plots of Slates Political Gabfest. As another election
Speaker 1: season accelerates, it can be tricky to sort through all
Speaker 1: the noise and the news. Each week on the gap Fest,
Speaker 1: John Dickerson, Emily Bathlon and I decipher the headlines, break
Speaker 1: down the races, and tell you what issues really matter.
Speaker 1: We do not always agree, We definitely do not always agree,
Speaker 1: but we always deliver thoughtful debate and we always have
Speaker 1: a good time. So subscribe to Slates Political Gapfest new
Speaker 1: episodes every Thursday. Politics, of course, functions in many different ways.
Speaker 1: One is about the politics of public health, which just
Speaker 1: the idea, the idea of public health has been challenged
Speaker 1: and just think of the irony right were challenged via
Speaker 1: public health lenked pathogen and the just the concept of
Speaker 1: public health falls apart, which I guess is terrifying. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's understandable because this thing has gone on so too long.
Speaker 1: Maybe who knows, but it does keep happening, and that's
Speaker 1: that's certainly going to be something that plays out. And
Speaker 1: then two other kind of functions of politics I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk about. One is the politics of the media
Speaker 1: and the second is the politics of race. And I'll
Speaker 1: take those in order. I think it would be interesting
Speaker 1: for the students to also hear what is your sense
Speaker 1: of just the politics of your job, What is the
Speaker 1: role of being in the media right now? How does
Speaker 1: what's happening right now change how you conceptualize like your mission,
Speaker 1: or how does it change your daily life? And I
Speaker 1: say that because we've got a lot of students who
Speaker 1: are thinking about going into media, and we'll be doing
Speaker 1: a lot with media in the class. But also because
Speaker 1: you know, if you if you just think back to
Speaker 1: like what you and I were doing in the beginning
Speaker 1: of the pandemic, it was kind of like, let's educate
Speaker 1: people about about the six feet rule and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: Like we thought we were educating people and now it's
Speaker 1: kind of like we're just chronicling. You know. I don't
Speaker 1: want to say, do we'd like something there? So can
Speaker 1: you just talk about kind of what this period has
Speaker 1: done to how you feel like your job is in
Speaker 1: a way? Yeah, I mean that's a really good question,
Speaker 1: And I asked myself, probably what am I doing on
Speaker 1: a regular basis? I think that when I entered in
Speaker 1: when I when I launched woke AF. But WOKAF was
Speaker 1: launched in twenty sixteen, and it was in reaction to
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's even being being a candidate, let alone becoming
Speaker 1: president of the United States. And what I realized at
Speaker 1: that time when I launched woke AF was that a
Speaker 1: majority of the country was asleep in the in believing
Speaker 1: that somebody like him couldn't become president of the United States. Um,
Speaker 1: somebody who had you know, came with a heavy amount
Speaker 1: of misogyny and racism um and said all of these
Speaker 1: things that were totally outside of the political norm. So
Speaker 1: when the pandemic happens, and he's still president of the
Speaker 1: United States at this time, and we're learning in real
Speaker 1: time what he knew, what he didn't know, the fact
Speaker 1: that he knew that it was contagious and not just
Speaker 1: like the flu, and didn't share it with the public
Speaker 1: because he wanted to use it as a political tool
Speaker 1: and weaponize it. I went from thinking about exactly what
Speaker 1: you had said, thinking about our role as providing information
Speaker 1: to people to keep them safe, but safety shifted not
Speaker 1: just about keeping them safe from this virus, but keeping
Speaker 1: them safe from the larger cancer of misinformation. Right that
Speaker 1: you were being misguided purposefully. It wasn't an accident, it
Speaker 1: wasn't unfortunate. It was a strategy. And so I feel
Speaker 1: like I went you know, the role that I have
Speaker 1: has always been to be an alarm clock. Right, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, everyone is busy in this country. Everyone has
Speaker 1: multiple jobs, kids, you know, livelihood, homes, you know, things
Speaker 1: going on. But those all of those aspects of life
Speaker 1: and livelihood go away if you don't have any freedom.
Speaker 1: And you know, I don't know how many of your students,
Speaker 1: you know, have traveled and have traveled into, you know,
Speaker 1: other countries or from other countries with various forms of
Speaker 1: government structure. But I have traveled to places with authoritarianism,
Speaker 1: and I've traveled to places you know, um that have
Speaker 1: climbed their way out of fascism, but still have you know,
Speaker 1: some remnants of that. Um. There is a there is
Speaker 1: a listlessness that the people have. There is a lack
Speaker 1: of hope. There's a lack of hopefulness because what are
Speaker 1: you being hopeful for? And so I find my job
Speaker 1: now not just to be an alarm, but to be
Speaker 1: in a siren an alarm, all the red flags, screaming
Speaker 1: and waving my hands that you know, don't think that
Speaker 1: what you're seeing can't happen in the United States, because
Speaker 1: it is happening, and it's happening every day, and it's
Speaker 1: happening a lot rapid, a lot more rapid then then
Speaker 1: we thought that it would. I mean, it's interesting you
Speaker 1: mentioned misinformation and disinformation because I remember we did a show,
Speaker 1: you know, in the first month of the pandemic where
Speaker 1: we were just explaining to people, Yeah, what is misinformation?
Speaker 1: And everybody was like, well, that happens in Russia. But
Speaker 1: I would I would spot that in a second hair
Speaker 1: like nobody believed it was happening to them. But it
Speaker 1: turns out the way it happens is it's a narrative
Speaker 1: that makes sense to you, and then it becomes your
Speaker 1: form of common sense in a way. I want to
Speaker 1: say to you know, to point out something recently that
Speaker 1: just happened. If if folks are paying attention to a
Speaker 1: lot of the debates that are happenings as we make
Speaker 1: the march to midterms. Representative Marjory Taylor Green out of
Speaker 1: Georgia was in her debate with her opponent and one
Speaker 1: of the things that she said was that, um, Democrats
Speaker 1: are trying to kill us. You want to kill us.
Speaker 1: That's what she said to her political opponent. And then
Speaker 1: she said why do you why do you care? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, why are you for being a predator and
Speaker 1: and and and grooming children? She said all of these things. No,
Speaker 1: the debate moderator didn't stop her. What happened then is
Speaker 1: that it was picked up in all of these news
Speaker 1: outlets and it's normalized because it's oh it's just Marjorie
Speaker 1: Taylor Green saying more of what she has said, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, but there's no disruption. There's no disruption of
Speaker 1: the lies, the dangerous lies that are coming out of
Speaker 1: her mouth, and you don't know who or where they're landing.
Speaker 1: So it's it's it isn't you know? It isn't just like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: those people over there, you know, they're you know, they're
Speaker 1: they're they're crazy. It's like, no, they've become the mainstream.
Speaker 1: And when crazy is mainstreamed, people become dehumanized, and then
Speaker 1: the actions that you decide to take against the people
Speaker 1: can be justified. And you need not look any further
Speaker 1: than justifications for all types of oppression, violence, and torture
Speaker 1: that have happened in this country and around the world.
Speaker 1: I think that's really really well said. We have just
Speaker 1: in a couple of minutes before we go to the
Speaker 1: gap to the audiences. So if you have a question,
Speaker 1: if you have a question, just think about coming up
Speaker 1: to the microphone. If anybody wants to ask about politics
Speaker 1: or media or things like that, So just go ahead
Speaker 1: and line up right here at the microphone. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: ask one more question now, you mentioned before about about
Speaker 1: traveling outside the United States, and I'm kind of laughing
Speaker 1: looking at our room because we have students from pretty
Speaker 1: much all over the world, all over the country, many
Speaker 1: different ideological backgrounds, political backgrounds, and what's nice is we
Speaker 1: come together here to address that. And so there I'll
Speaker 1: ask you about race after the students. But could you
Speaker 1: just say a word a word about just what what
Speaker 1: could you say to students right now, like students who
Speaker 1: for example, might be wanting to go into the media
Speaker 1: or might be wanting to go into the politics. What's
Speaker 1: what's you know, what's the what's the message to this
Speaker 1: audience of the kind of the leaders of tomorrow who
Speaker 1: are getting going to get us out of this? You
Speaker 1: know what I would say is if you're going into media,
Speaker 1: I think that what is really interesting is that media
Speaker 1: has become in a lot of ways democratized. If you
Speaker 1: know how to utilize different social platforms, so you don't
Speaker 1: need to necessarily be a part of a traditional news
Speaker 1: outlet um that may have a newsroom that is not
Speaker 1: reflective of who you are. Are not interested in diverse
Speaker 1: and I mean diverse in all senses of diverse. What
Speaker 1: diversifies our perspective, um of the world around us, of
Speaker 1: our of our body politic and so what what's your
Speaker 1: I would say to really think about what is your
Speaker 1: point of view? You know, what do you want to
Speaker 1: offer that is different? Um, what do you think is missing?
Speaker 1: And then if you figure that out, then you're able
Speaker 1: to actually create a point of view and create content
Speaker 1: around that that will bring people in. But you kind
Speaker 1: of have to figure out what kind of journalists do
Speaker 1: you want to be? And don't fall into the trap
Speaker 1: of neutrality, because I think that in the current climate
Speaker 1: that we're in, neutrality is actually a lie. It is
Speaker 1: a code to just accept the status quo. Um, I
Speaker 1: don't And I also don't refer to myself as a journalist.
Speaker 1: I went to school for politics. I just happened to
Speaker 1: run my mouth really well, you know, but I hadn't
Speaker 1: even go to school for media. So don't even think
Speaker 1: that if you didn't, if you're not getting you know,
Speaker 1: one of your you know, degrees in media or journalism,
Speaker 1: then that means that you can't enter into the field.
Speaker 1: I am sitting you know, evidence to the contrary. Wonderful,
Speaker 1: All right, well, this is this has been really fun.
Speaker 1: This is the one time a year were like, I'm
Speaker 1: the host and you're the guest. Yes, I love it.
Speaker 1: Usually you're interviewing me and I'm like, damn, her job's
Speaker 1: harder than it looks. So anyway, all right, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, Danielle, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: joining us, and we will talk next week at this
Speaker 1: very same time earlier. Thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: That is it for me today, dear friends on Woke
Speaker 1: app as always, power to the people and to all
Speaker 1: the people, power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.