WEBVTT - Turning the Tables 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.480 Good morning, Pete Sen. Welcome to woka F Daily with 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:19.239 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Recording from the Home Bunker, Folks, 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:23.640 Today we are doing a special episode of woke F 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:27.720 Daily with our friend, doctor Jonathan Metzel. We decided to 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:30.520 turn the tables this episode. Usually for the past couple 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.720 of years, I mean, Jonathan and I have been talking 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:37.479 weekly since the beginning of the pandemic. So just think 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:40.440 about how many conversations you've listened to with the two 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:43.080 of us. But today we decided to turn the tables. 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:47.080 We went live from Vanderbilt University where Jonathan teaches a 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:52.720 class on COVID and society, and essentially today's lecture was 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:57.040 with regard to how COVID has changed our politics and 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:00.920 has it changed it forever? And has it changed forever? 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:05.360 And so in this conversation, instead of me asking Jonathan questions, 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:09.959 Jonathan asked me questions and turns the table on how 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:14.839 I think that media has changed how the public views 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:18.120 public health, whether or not we'll ever get back to 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:21.759 a community minded space with regard to public health, where 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.679 we really are our brothers, sisters, our friends, keepers and 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:30.880 we care about their well being and so For me, folks, 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:34.640 this was a really fun episode to do because I 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.679 miss university. There is a war on education right now 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:41.399 at K through twelve level, but also at the higher 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:44.959 education level, and so there are days when I think 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:50.040 to myself, I couldn't imagine going through and getting my 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:56.360 degree right now, right Like I remember thinking about you know, 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.760 political science and framing it in terms of how I 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.240 want it to be a force for good and be 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:06.040 a public servant and helped shape and change the nation. 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:08.440 And that was at a time when I thought that 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:12.000 we were on an upswing. So what does it mean 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:15.240 to be getting a degree in politics or getting a 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:20.080 degree in journalism at this current time? So the opportunity 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:24.320 to both speak with and listen to young people for 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:26.920 me was a huge treat. So I hope that you 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.840 all enjoy this. Who I guess it would be a 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:34.040 Freaky Friday episode with Jonathan where Jonathan turns the tables 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:37.959 and puts on his host hat and I enter into 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:42.400 the guest's chair. So coming up next, my conversation with 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:48.880 doctor Jonathan Metzel on COVID and society. It's no secret 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:52.240 that the news is horsepill hard to swallow. Thankfully, there's 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:56.720 The Bituation Room podcast hosted by comedian and commentator Francesca 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.720 free Erntini, for a lighter take on the heavy stuff. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.680 Each week, The Bituation Room brings you progressive comedians, experts, 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:05.839 and activists to break down the issues in a way 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:08.600 that won't just leave you crying under a weighted blanket. 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:12.320 Get The Bituation Room on Apple Podcasts, Scotify, Stitcher, and 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:20.600 streaming on YouTube and Twitch. All right, welcome to class, everybody. 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.640 I am delighted to turn the tables today. For the 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:27.600 past gosh, how long has it been. Danielle in the pemic. 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.079 We've been talking every dayn week for the pandemic. So, 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:35.000 Danielle is a dear friend of mine and we used 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:39.080 to do television together on MSNBC and other stuff like that. 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:44.680 Danielle and I were also the only people who were, like, 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:48.360 I think, adequately freaking out before the pandemic happened. And 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:50.440 so like everybody else was like, oh, two weeks of 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:52.920 canned soup and cash, and Danielle and I would be 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.320 in the back being like, this ain't two weeks. I 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:57.680 can't soup. This is like you know the world is 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.280 going to implode or something like that. And so we've 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.960 been actually doing a TV segment every week over the 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:08.560 course of the entire pandemic processing and every week we say, 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.840 next week, we're going to talk about puppies, or we're 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.560 going to talk about ponies, or we're going to talk 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:19.680 about springtime. Because we're not like dour people. But what 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:22.160 we need is for the bummer news to stop happening. 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.960 But instead what happens is the bummer news keeps coming. 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:28.359 And so I've got a bunch of slides about politics, 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:32.120 which maybe' all go into afterwards, but let me just 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.560 say a few things that I am delighted to welcome 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:38.919 to class today my good friend Danielle Moody. Danielle hosts 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:42.600 a bunch of different shows. The most important ones by 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:47.640 far are wikaf and Democracy, which are both daniel word 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:51.240 of those stream everywhere. They stream everywhere. You guys get 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:55.080 your podcasts, everywhere you get your podcasts. I love this 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:57.760 on your bio. It says never sorry about shaking things up. 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.640 We're calling bs when she sees it. Danielle has been 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:05.000 an apologetic commentator about America's racism problem. She made waves 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.479 on election night in twenty sixteen when she called Donald 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.599 Trump's win White Supremacies lest stand video clips went which 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:17.280 went viral and she's the really I mean, how many 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:20.040 can you tell us, Danielle really quickly for the audience here, 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:23.039 tell us a little bit about your media background before 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:26.040 we get where we get going. Sure, So my background 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.440 is actually in politics and policy. Um. I worked on 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:33.880 Capitol Hill, uh did education policy, was the lead lobbyist 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:39.360 for New York City's education lobbying efforts under Mayor Bloomberg 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:45.400 transition to education environmental education. And I got into media 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:48.520 by way of the marriage equality fight, so in the 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:52.800 early two thousands became a national spokesperson for marriage equality. 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:58.800 From there transitioned into doing more policy around LGBTQ issues 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.960 and recognize seeing that there are two ways to change, 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.760 you know, to change hearts and minds. One of them 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.599 is through media and the other is through policy. So 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:11.719 that's how I became more active in terms of writing 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:15.480 and speaking and creating shows that kind of cut through 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.800 the bs, which you can only get so much in 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:25.320 soundbites on television. And so podcasting and creating content is 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:27.960 a way for us to really delve into the conversations 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:32.840 that mainstream media misses wonderful. And as I was just saying, 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:36.200 you and I have been speaking every single Tuesday and 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:40.080 Wednesday for the past well since really the second week 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:43.960 of the pandemic. Yeah, and the class that you're speaking 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.920 in front of there's a audience of students in front 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:48.800 of me, which will go to in a little bit here. 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.040 But the theme of this class is COVID and society, 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.039 and we're kind of asking how the pandemic change the 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:57.839 world as we know it, and also how the pandemic 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.800 is changing the future of the future as you know, 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.760 what's the trajectory that is being altered or exposed as 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:08.640 a result of the pandemic. And so we've done different 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:14.000 weeks on science, expertise, race, things like that, and today 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.600 we're talking about politics and protests. And I thought, man, 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:18.880 I've been talking about this every week with Danielle, and 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.000 so I thought, let's do let's do this conversation in 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.000 front of the class and then we'll bring in the class. 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:26.520 And so the theme today is how did the pandemic 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:31.320 change either politics as we know it, the future of politics, 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:34.200 or the future the future of the world in a 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:38.520 particular way. Wow. I mean, one, I love the fact 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.800 that you do this class, and to those are really 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:45.680 great questions. I think that the way in which politics 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:49.200 has changed is fundamentally we have to think about the 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:53.160 fact that we had never villainized in the way that 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:57.280 we've seen public health done so over the last couple 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:00.280 of years, where we were always on the same page, 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:02.280 like don't we all want to be healthy, don't we 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:04.520 all want to be safe? Don't we all want what's 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.680 best for our friends, our neighbors, our colleagues, And that 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:13.480 fundamentally shifted where you had some people then this is 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.640 pre vaccine, right, because we've been talking for a long time, Jonathan, Like, 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.720 pre vaccine, it was wear a mask. Once we understood 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.760 what COVID was and how it was playing out in 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:26.720 the beginning, it said we were told, wear a mask, 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:29.520 it'll keep yourself safe, it'll keep those around you stafe, 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:33.839 have six feet of distance, right, wash your hands, And 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:39.360 all of a sudden you saw this breakdown with the 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:43.240 Republican Party and the far right deciding that by telling 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.560 people to be in community with one another in order 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:49.600 to keep all of us safe, that somehow that was 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:53.760 in violation of their rights and violation of their liberty right. 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:57.959 So they wanted the freedom to infect. And so I 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.960 think that by virtue of this, we lost trust in 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:05.720 our institutions like the CDC and the WHO where you know, 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:09.160 were they making decisions as the pandemic continue to progress. 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:12.559 Were they making decisions that were about our public health 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:15.480 or about politics so as not to be called out 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:18.240 by the far right? If they're saying, hey, you need 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:21.719 to quarantine for two weeks, well then you have CEOs 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:25.000 and shareholders that are concerned that if workers are quarantining 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:27.880 every time that they get sick for this long period 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:31.400 of time, well then what happens to productivity? What happens 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:35.559 to churn? So are we making decisions about capitalism or 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.920 are we making them about people's well being? And as 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.599 time went on, as we would continue in our conversations, 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:44.320 I think that we saw that, you know, it's kind 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:47.560 of a mixed bag, right, that these decisions are in 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.080 fact have become politicized, and I think that they will 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:54.000 be into the future, which is really detrimental in terms 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.240 of how we need to operate because I don't think 0:09:56.280 --> 0:10:00.360 that COVID is going to be our last health pandemic, right, 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.000 And I don't necessarily think that even with each new 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.000 variant that we've seen, that we've shown that we've learned 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.439 really about what it means to not only care for ourselves, 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.600 but to care for those around us and the most 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.120 vulnerable frankly around us. So I do think that it 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:18.679 has shifted our politics in a way where, you know, 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:21.679 we thought that we could debate climate change, for instance, 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:25.960 and science, and that there were two different types of science. 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:29.080 And this is the way that we've allowed that same 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:33.760 type of thinking to take over public health. I think 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:35.959 that's exactly right, and it ties really nicely into a 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:39.160 bunch of stuff we've been talking about in class. Politics, 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:43.760 of course, functions on multiple levels. Politics is the politics 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.600 of public health certainly, and what it means. I mean, 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:48.760 I was just thinking the whole idea. When I was 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.439 in medicool, for example, I learned that public health means 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.600 it's not so much about saving the drowning person from 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.520 the river. It's about making sure they don't fall into 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.520 the river the first place, which means everybody working together 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:07.120 to put up guardrails around the water, teaching people to 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.720 swim in advance. It takes people kind of working together. 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:12.920 It feels like in many ways our country has kind 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:15.520 of fallen into the river, and the idea that we 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:19.760 could even build guardrails or think about prevention in a way, 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:23.679 it just becomes so much more unmatchable, which is ironic, right, 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:27.080 because we've seen what the pandemic can do. But just 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:30.920 the idea of public health itself, the idea that people 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:35.520 are working together communally to prevent things from happening before 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:40.120 they happen, seems awfully fraught right now, would you say, 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.600 I mean, I think that it's it's terrifying with how 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:47.120 fraught it is. Right when we think about thee like, 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:53.640 this is a virus that spreads through community, So how 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.840 can you not be community minded when trying to find 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.360 your way to solutions? Right, We had an opportunit unity. 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.480 I think you and I have discussed this and maybe 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:06.120 our opinions differ. We had an opportunity, you know, at 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:10.520 the beginning of vaccinations to get everybody vaccinated to kind 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.840 of to work to eradicate COVID. We never thought that 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.520 we would then have twenty five percent of the population 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.240 that would be like, no, I'm good, right, I think 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:21.760 that you're putting a microchip in my arm, right, and 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:25.520 not believe doctors who have no agenda, they're not running 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:29.199 for office, they don't need to be elected, right, So 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.040 why wouldn't you believe what doctors and nurses and health 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:36.680 practitioners are saying because you've been told that they're out 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:41.840 to get you. And so I don't know how we, 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:44.920 as one of guests has said to me recently, how 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:49.200 we knit our communities back together where we trust one 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.880 another right, where we trust that we're in this for 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:57.600 the betterment of ourselves and our community at large. And 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:00.280 if we can't get on the same page about not 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:04.040 wanting to kill our neighbor because we happen to cough 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:07.079 on them, or you know, or we refuse to wear 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.320 a mask, then I don't know what we can get 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:14.080 on the same page about. And that's what scares me. Hey, 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:17.800 I'm David Plots of Slates Political Gabfest. As another election 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.560 season accelerates, it can be tricky to sort through all 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.480 the noise and the news. Each week on the gap Fest, 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:27.920 John Dickerson, Emily Bathlon and I decipher the headlines, break 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:31.200 down the races, and tell you what issues really matter. 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.920 We do not always agree, We definitely do not always agree, 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:38.280 but we always deliver thoughtful debate and we always have 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:42.240 a good time. So subscribe to Slates Political Gapfest new 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:47.760 episodes every Thursday. Politics, of course, functions in many different ways. 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:50.960 One is about the politics of public health, which just 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.319 the idea, the idea of public health has been challenged 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:57.520 and just think of the irony right were challenged via 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.600 public health lenked pathogen and the just the concept of 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:05.640 public health falls apart, which I guess is terrifying. Maybe 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:08.280 it's understandable because this thing has gone on so too long. 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.400 Maybe who knows, but it does keep happening, and that's 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:13.920 that's certainly going to be something that plays out. And 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:16.160 then two other kind of functions of politics I wanted 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.480 to talk about. One is the politics of the media 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:21.280 and the second is the politics of race. And I'll 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.880 take those in order. I think it would be interesting 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:28.000 for the students to also hear what is your sense 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.080 of just the politics of your job, What is the 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.240 role of being in the media right now? How does 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:39.280 what's happening right now change how you conceptualize like your mission, 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:41.480 or how does it change your daily life? And I 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:43.160 say that because we've got a lot of students who 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.760 are thinking about going into media, and we'll be doing 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.920 a lot with media in the class. But also because 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:50.600 you know, if you if you just think back to 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:52.880 like what you and I were doing in the beginning 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:55.440 of the pandemic, it was kind of like, let's educate 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:59.400 people about about the six feet rule and all that stuff. 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:02.160 Like we thought we were educating people and now it's 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:06.480 kind of like we're just chronicling. You know. I don't 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.640 want to say, do we'd like something there? So can 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.480 you just talk about kind of what this period has 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.920 done to how you feel like your job is in 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.840 a way? Yeah, I mean that's a really good question, 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.880 And I asked myself, probably what am I doing on 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:26.440 a regular basis? I think that when I entered in 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:29.720 when I when I launched woke AF. But WOKAF was 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:34.440 launched in twenty sixteen, and it was in reaction to 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:38.720 Donald Trump's even being being a candidate, let alone becoming 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:42.440 president of the United States. And what I realized at 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.480 that time when I launched woke AF was that a 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:49.160 majority of the country was asleep in the in believing 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:54.000 that somebody like him couldn't become president of the United States. Um, 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:56.960 somebody who had you know, came with a heavy amount 0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:01.440 of misogyny and racism um and said all of these 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:05.480 things that were totally outside of the political norm. So 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:11.640 when the pandemic happens, and he's still president of the 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:15.920 United States at this time, and we're learning in real 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.560 time what he knew, what he didn't know, the fact 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:20.880 that he knew that it was contagious and not just 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:22.920 like the flu, and didn't share it with the public 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:25.240 because he wanted to use it as a political tool 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:28.680 and weaponize it. I went from thinking about exactly what 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:33.240 you had said, thinking about our role as providing information 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:38.400 to people to keep them safe, but safety shifted not 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:42.240 just about keeping them safe from this virus, but keeping 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:46.600 them safe from the larger cancer of misinformation. Right that 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:51.560 you were being misguided purposefully. It wasn't an accident, it 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:55.840 wasn't unfortunate. It was a strategy. And so I feel 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:58.120 like I went you know, the role that I have 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:02.160 has always been to be an alarm clock. Right, Like, 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:06.160 you know, everyone is busy in this country. Everyone has 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:11.000 multiple jobs, kids, you know, livelihood, homes, you know, things 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:15.000 going on. But those all of those aspects of life 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:18.240 and livelihood go away if you don't have any freedom. 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.080 And you know, I don't know how many of your students, 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.199 you know, have traveled and have traveled into, you know, 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:29.200 other countries or from other countries with various forms of 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:35.080 government structure. But I have traveled to places with authoritarianism, 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:37.879 and I've traveled to places you know, um that have 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.639 climbed their way out of fascism, but still have you know, 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:44.080 some remnants of that. Um. There is a there is 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:48.200 a listlessness that the people have. There is a lack 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:51.600 of hope. There's a lack of hopefulness because what are 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:55.359 you being hopeful for? And so I find my job 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:57.679 now not just to be an alarm, but to be 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:01.800 in a siren an alarm, all the red flags, screaming 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:05.119 and waving my hands that you know, don't think that 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:08.520 what you're seeing can't happen in the United States, because 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:11.240 it is happening, and it's happening every day, and it's 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.560 happening a lot rapid, a lot more rapid then then 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.159 we thought that it would. I mean, it's interesting you 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.879 mentioned misinformation and disinformation because I remember we did a show, 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:23.320 you know, in the first month of the pandemic where 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:25.720 we were just explaining to people, Yeah, what is misinformation? 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.520 And everybody was like, well, that happens in Russia. But 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.440 I would I would spot that in a second hair 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.239 like nobody believed it was happening to them. But it 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:36.320 turns out the way it happens is it's a narrative 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:37.959 that makes sense to you, and then it becomes your 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.600 form of common sense in a way. I want to 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.560 say to you know, to point out something recently that 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:48.639 just happened. If if folks are paying attention to a 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:51.200 lot of the debates that are happenings as we make 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:56.560 the march to midterms. Representative Marjory Taylor Green out of 0:18:56.560 --> 0:19:00.440 Georgia was in her debate with her opponent and one 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:04.920 of the things that she said was that, um, Democrats 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:08.040 are trying to kill us. You want to kill us. 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:10.600 That's what she said to her political opponent. And then 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:12.560 she said why do you why do you care? Well, 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:16.399 you know, why are you for being a predator and 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:19.639 and and and grooming children? She said all of these things. No, 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:23.720 the debate moderator didn't stop her. What happened then is 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:26.080 that it was picked up in all of these news 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:29.720 outlets and it's normalized because it's oh it's just Marjorie 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.040 Taylor Green saying more of what she has said, and 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:36.040 I'm like, but there's no disruption. There's no disruption of 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:39.280 the lies, the dangerous lies that are coming out of 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:42.240 her mouth, and you don't know who or where they're landing. 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.920 So it's it's it isn't you know? It isn't just like, oh, well, 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.000 those people over there, you know, they're you know, they're 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:52.440 they're they're crazy. It's like, no, they've become the mainstream. 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:57.840 And when crazy is mainstreamed, people become dehumanized, and then 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:00.480 the actions that you decide to take against the people 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.680 can be justified. And you need not look any further 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:07.720 than justifications for all types of oppression, violence, and torture 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.280 that have happened in this country and around the world. 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:14.679 I think that's really really well said. We have just 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:16.119 in a couple of minutes before we go to the 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:18.159 gap to the audiences. So if you have a question, 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:21.560 if you have a question, just think about coming up 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:23.920 to the microphone. If anybody wants to ask about politics 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:25.600 or media or things like that, So just go ahead 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:27.840 and line up right here at the microphone. I'm gonna 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:32.359 ask one more question now, you mentioned before about about 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:35.080 traveling outside the United States, and I'm kind of laughing 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:38.560 looking at our room because we have students from pretty 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:42.879 much all over the world, all over the country, many 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:48.280 different ideological backgrounds, political backgrounds, and what's nice is we 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:53.840 come together here to address that. And so there I'll 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.960 ask you about race after the students. But could you 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:02.040 just say a word a word about just what what 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:04.680 could you say to students right now, like students who 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:07.399 for example, might be wanting to go into the media 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:10.399 or might be wanting to go into the politics. What's 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:12.920 what's you know, what's the what's the message to this 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:15.560 audience of the kind of the leaders of tomorrow who 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:18.439 are getting going to get us out of this? You 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:23.240 know what I would say is if you're going into media, 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:27.960 I think that what is really interesting is that media 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:30.879 has become in a lot of ways democratized. If you 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:34.560 know how to utilize different social platforms, so you don't 0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:39.320 need to necessarily be a part of a traditional news 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.080 outlet um that may have a newsroom that is not 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:46.440 reflective of who you are. Are not interested in diverse 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:49.720 and I mean diverse in all senses of diverse. What 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:54.359 diversifies our perspective, um of the world around us, of 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.760 our of our body politic and so what what's your 0:21:57.920 --> 0:21:59.840 I would say to really think about what is your 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:02.119 point of view? You know, what do you want to 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:06.320 offer that is different? Um, what do you think is missing? 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:09.520 And then if you figure that out, then you're able 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:13.320 to actually create a point of view and create content 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.520 around that that will bring people in. But you kind 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:19.879 of have to figure out what kind of journalists do 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:22.480 you want to be? And don't fall into the trap 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:25.719 of neutrality, because I think that in the current climate 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:28.320 that we're in, neutrality is actually a lie. It is 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:33.119 a code to just accept the status quo. Um, I 0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:35.760 don't And I also don't refer to myself as a journalist. 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:37.919 I went to school for politics. I just happened to 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:42.480 run my mouth really well, you know, but I hadn't 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:45.360 even go to school for media. So don't even think 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:47.800 that if you didn't, if you're not getting you know, 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:51.000 one of your you know, degrees in media or journalism, 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:53.000 then that means that you can't enter into the field. 0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:58.120 I am sitting you know, evidence to the contrary. Wonderful, 0:22:58.160 --> 0:22:59.720 All right, well, this is this has been really fun. 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:02.200 This is the one time a year were like, I'm 0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:05.159 the host and you're the guest. Yes, I love it. 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:08.480 Usually you're interviewing me and I'm like, damn, her job's 0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:13.399 harder than it looks. So anyway, all right, thank you, 0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:15.359 thank you, thank you, Danielle, thank you so much for 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:18.000 joining us, and we will talk next week at this 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:21.480 very same time earlier. Thank you, thank you so much. 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:29.359 That is it for me today, dear friends on Woke 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:32.680 app as always, power to the people and to all 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:36.520 the people, power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.