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Speaker 1: Novel.

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Speaker 2: Before we begin, a content warning. The following episode contains

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Speaker 2: difficult themes and violence. Mama, I called my mom back

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Speaker 2: in the middle of lunch recently?

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Speaker 3: What you doing looking at YouTube videos?

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Speaker 2: I'd missed her earlier call, and she tends to worry

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Speaker 2: if I take too long to call her back. So

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Speaker 2: I thought I'd make use of the opportunity to ask

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Speaker 2: her about a connection I have to Eunice Carter's story.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you this.

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Speaker 2: Do you know anybody who ran numbers?

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Speaker 3: Play dumb?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, uh huh.

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Speaker 3: Let me see what was his name? He was a

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Speaker 3: big number man in Nashville, Girl. He long needed money

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Speaker 3: to get the bath hom fixed.

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Speaker 2: My childhood in Nashville and Harlem nineteen twenties are quite

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Speaker 2: different in lots of ways. But if the little slips

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Speaker 2: of paper I sometimes saw in my uncle's pockets as

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Speaker 2: a child, or anything to go by black folks playing

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Speaker 2: the numbers is a shared history across America. My late

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Speaker 2: great uncle was a hard working, respectable man. He was quiet, stern,

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Speaker 2: kept his own private stash of Pepsi's no one else

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Speaker 2: was allowed to drink. But he had a gold tooth

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Speaker 2: that winked out at the world when he laughed, showing

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Speaker 2: a little bit of the slick country charm that must

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Speaker 2: have stolen my aunt's heart. He believed in the stability

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Speaker 2: of an honest day's work, but he also enjoyed taking

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Speaker 2: a chance on the game of numbers. There was community

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Speaker 2: in the game. If the meteorologist on television said we

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Speaker 2: were going to have four days of ninety eight degree weather,

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Speaker 2: a living room chorus of elders would erupt four ninety eight.

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Speaker 2: Write that down, play that number. The numbers game is

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Speaker 2: like an unofficial lottery. To play, you start by selecting

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Speaker 2: any three digit number and betting some money on it

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Speaker 2: with a bookmaker.

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Speaker 3: You could claim the number and you put a nickel

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Speaker 3: like just say on at a thirteen.

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Speaker 2: The winning digits are announced the next day by whoever

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Speaker 2: runs the game. They're usually drawn from some random, publicly published,

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Speaker 2: hard to predict number, like the last three digits of

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Speaker 2: Federal Reserve Bank clearings for that day. A lot of

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Speaker 2: people had a special system for figuring out which numbers

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Speaker 2: to bet. My great uncle was one of them.

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Speaker 3: He would sit down to workout numbers certain times, so

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Speaker 3: the years, certain numbers always fall.

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Speaker 2: I remember one time my uncle deviated from his system

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Speaker 2: by asking my cousin, who was studying to become a

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Speaker 2: preacher at the time, to look in the Bible for

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Speaker 2: some divine help.

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Speaker 3: And she wouldn't do it.

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Speaker 1: She wouldn't do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the numbers game is a game of chance.

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Speaker 2: My aunt and her husband would host our extended family

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Speaker 2: for almost all the major holidays and family events. My

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Speaker 2: uncle's friends would come over, and after all the greeting

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Speaker 2: formalities were out of the way, they'd ask what it

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Speaker 2: hit for, and the jargon would fly too quickly for

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Speaker 2: my child's mind to follow. I still wasn't really sure

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Speaker 2: what the numbers were. I just knew that a lot

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Speaker 2: of conversations with a certain group of elders included them

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Speaker 2: asking each other if their number had hit today, and

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Speaker 2: if someone showed up with a new car, they look

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Speaker 2: at the license plate and say, I'm gonna play that number.

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Speaker 1: One time. Maybe. When I was around six years.

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Speaker 2: Old, the house was full of people and music and food.

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Speaker 2: All the big elders were sitting at the kitchen table

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Speaker 2: reminiscing and laughing. There was a gallon jug of what

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Speaker 2: I thought was great fruit punch sitting there between the

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Speaker 2: ash trays and discarded dessert plates. I decided to help

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Speaker 2: myself to a cup. But I remember I'm thinking that

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Speaker 2: it was great creature cooler because it was just in

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Speaker 2: a one of them regular old classic gallon jumps. I

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Speaker 2: thought it was a local brand of fruit punch. My

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Speaker 2: granddaddy stopped me just in time to keep me from

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Speaker 2: drinking some homemade wine.

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Speaker 3: Yeah it to you, so whatever you know.

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Speaker 2: As fuzzy as this memory is, it's one of my favorites,

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Speaker 2: especially now that forty years later, so much has changed.

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Speaker 2: Granddaddy's been gone a long time. We can't trust my

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Speaker 2: great aunt, once famous for her hot water corn bread

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Speaker 2: and potato salad, to cook anymore, and my great uncle,

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Speaker 2: her husband, passed away several years ago as well. By

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Speaker 2: the time I was a teenager, my great aunt and

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Speaker 2: uncle had stopped drinking and smoking, but I think my

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Speaker 2: uncle maintained.

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Speaker 1: At least that one little vice.

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Speaker 2: As Unice Hunting Carter walked through the streets of Harlem,

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Speaker 2: perhaps on her way to and from law school, the

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Speaker 2: numbers game would have been going on all around her too,

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Speaker 2: not necessarily out in the open. Playing the numbers is

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Speaker 2: a secretive business. That's why some of my mom's answers

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Speaker 2: are a bit frustratingly vague.

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Speaker 6: People that were running the numbers, they looked like your

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Speaker 6: average person. You could go to the barber shops, the

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Speaker 6: beauty shops, the worst store.

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Speaker 2: To who though like it had to be somebody on

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Speaker 2: the side. It wasn't actually going to Kroger and placing

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Speaker 2: a bit with crogh.

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Speaker 3: The Tennessee has a state.

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Speaker 1: Lottery, right, but I'm not talking about the lottery. I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about numbers like that's nothing different.

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Speaker 3: Numbers were supposed to be illegal.

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Speaker 2: It was a shared, open secret between friends. Lucrative but illegal.

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Speaker 6: Well, but your contact was they would tell you who

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Speaker 6: you need to see in.

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Speaker 3: The grocery store. Agana could have worked there. It could

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Speaker 3: have been the butcher, could have been anybody in Nick.

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Speaker 3: The reason why it was illegal is because it was

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Speaker 3: an underground thing and it was mostly in the black neighborhoods,

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Speaker 3: just like up in Harlem.

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Speaker 2: So in Harlem, as the twenties turned to the thirties

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Speaker 2: and Eunice was learning the letter of the law, she

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Speaker 2: passes many of her neighbors who are surviving by breaking it.

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Speaker 2: Not that many play the numbers because they thought it

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Speaker 2: was going to make them rich.

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Speaker 1: The odds of winning are six hundred to one.

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Speaker 3: The more money you put on it to bi of

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Speaker 3: your return. So they would put.

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Speaker 6: A penny on the number, they put a.

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Speaker 3: Niffle, they put a quarter. People didn't make a whole lot.

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Speaker 2: Of money in it as ordinary to my childhood as

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Speaker 2: a cabbage patch kid or the sounds of MTV playing

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Speaker 2: in the background. For a long time. It's also been

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Speaker 2: a way to establish hope and agency and black communities,

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Speaker 2: especially when times got hard. But where does all the

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Speaker 2: money go?

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Speaker 3: Nobody win, but people like the people all at what

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Speaker 3: all that money adds up?

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Speaker 2: Seems like in Unice's days, just as in my childhood,

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Speaker 2: the people running the game are the ones making the profits.

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Speaker 2: And in Harlem in the nineteen twenties and into the

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Speaker 2: early thirties, one of those people was called Stephanie Saint Clair,

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Speaker 2: as glamorous and as ambitious as Unice. But just as

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Speaker 2: we saw in Atlanta in nineteen oh six during the

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Speaker 2: violent riots that shaped the trajectory of Unus's life, black

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Speaker 2: wealth attracts a lot of white attention.

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Speaker 3: Black folks said that then white folks won it.

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Speaker 2: They could from the teams at iHeartRadio and novel. I'm

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Speaker 2: Nicole Perkins and this is the God Episode four Panic,

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Speaker 2: New York City, Wednesday morning, November twentieth, nineteen twenty nine,

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Speaker 2: and unus hunting. Carter has just started her break from

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Speaker 2: Fordham Law School. This morning, she's getting ready for a

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Speaker 2: day of political campaigning for Republican mayorial candidate Fiorella LaGuardia.

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Speaker 2: But right now, in this moment, she's taking time for

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Speaker 2: herself to read the newspaper. She opens the New York

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Speaker 2: Amsterdam News. Her eyes are immediately drawn to a large ad.

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Speaker 2: It features a glamorous black woman looking back at Unice.

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Speaker 2: She's wearing a coat, jewels what looks like a close hat.

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Speaker 2: Her hands rest just above her hips. Beneath the picture,

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Speaker 2: she's written a letter addressed to the people of New

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Speaker 2: York City.

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Speaker 1: To the members of my race.

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Speaker 2: I have received letters and telephone messages from men who

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Speaker 2: have annoyed me very much, and I take this occasion

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Speaker 2: to ask them publicly to please not annoy me. I,

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Speaker 2: Madame Saint clair Am not looking for a husband or

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Speaker 2: a sweetheart. Eunice recognizes the woman in the ad immediately, so.

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Speaker 7: Stephanie Sinclair is very, very flamboyant.

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Speaker 2: One of Harlem's wealthiest and more notorious residents. And maybe

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Speaker 2: the two of them have more in common than at

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Speaker 2: first glance.

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Speaker 7: Their backgrounds are different, but these two women are the same.

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Speaker 7: They want the same things. Then they see themselves as leaders.

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Speaker 2: By this point, at the end of the twenties, Stephanie

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Speaker 2: Saint Clair is in the paper all the time, in

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Speaker 2: her own ads like this one and in news articles.

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Speaker 2: By today's standards, she'd be a millionaire, and she is

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Speaker 2: not coy about it.

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Speaker 8: She's one of those people who would definitely be famous

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Speaker 8: in twenty twenty three. Stephanie Sinclair knew how to use

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Speaker 8: the press. She knew how to use word of mouth.

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Speaker 8: She knew how to use gossip.

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Speaker 2: Stephanie Saint Clair lives at an address that many of

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Speaker 2: the other movers and shakers of Harlem's Renaissance also call home.

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Speaker 2: Up on sugar Hill four to oh nine Edgecombe Avenue,

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Speaker 2: the Grand thirteen story complex, my Harlem tour guide had

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Speaker 2: told me about during my visit to the neighborhood. It

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Speaker 2: sits on a raised section of Harlem with sweeping views

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Speaker 2: to the east. It's home to the likes of W. E. B.

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Speaker 2: Du Boyce, Aaron Douglas, and, of course, later in her life, Eunice.

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Speaker 2: But in the winter of nineteen twenty nine, another resident

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Speaker 2: is walking across the parquet floors and through its lush lobby,

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Speaker 2: tipping her hat to the dorman.

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Speaker 7: When Stephanie Saint Clair lived in that building during the

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Speaker 7: twenties and the early nineteen thirties, everyone who lived in

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Speaker 7: that building knew who she was, and they knew what

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Speaker 7: she did for a living.

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Speaker 2: Stephanie Saint Clair is an illegal gambling racketeer, and a

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Speaker 2: successful one at that. She's known as Harlem's policy Queen.

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Speaker 2: That means she hed runs the neighborhood numbers game being

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Speaker 2: played all over Harlem. Saint Clair employs at least fifty

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Speaker 2: runners who spill out across Harlem, collecting slips and bets

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Speaker 2: and salons, grocers and living rooms. She is arrogant, fashionable, glamorous,

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Speaker 2: and smart. She has a reputation for profanity.

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Speaker 8: All of this led an air to mystery to her.

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Speaker 8: That was a part of her mystique.

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Speaker 2: She's kagy about the details of her past, but we

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Speaker 2: know she arrived in New York City from the Caribbean

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Speaker 2: just prior to the Great Migration, and she's said to

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Speaker 2: have led a local gang called the Forty Thieves in

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Speaker 2: her youth until she found her niche in.

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Speaker 1: The numbers game.

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Speaker 7: Here you have a woman who's able to really build

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Speaker 7: a small empire in a short amount of time.

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Speaker 2: Soon, Eunice Hunting Carter and Stephanie Saint Clair will share

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Speaker 2: a common enemy, but it's Stephanie who will learn his

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Speaker 2: name first.

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Speaker 7: So Dutch Schultz is this bootlegger. He's a roofless gangster.

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Speaker 2: Dutch was a major figure in organized crime from the

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Speaker 2: nineteen twenties. His family had owned a trucking company, which

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Speaker 2: came in handy for the transportation of illegal alcohol. But

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Speaker 2: in nineteen thirty three, with prohibition coming to an end,

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Speaker 2: his prospects look less profitable. So, just like his associate

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Speaker 2: Lucky Luciano, he's searching for new opportunities to exploit. Unlike Lucky,

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Speaker 2: he doesn't have the same kind of charisma about him,

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Speaker 2: or forethought for that matter.

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Speaker 8: Every time he has a run in with someone, he

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Speaker 8: sort of doubles down, like I gotta kill more people.

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Speaker 8: I gotta be more aggressive next time. He sort of

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Speaker 8: consistently learns the wrong lessons.

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Speaker 2: So as Lucky's Mott Street boys are moving into sex work,

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Speaker 2: Dutch Schultz's idea for a new revenue stream is the

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Speaker 2: neighborhood numbers games, particularly one neighborhood where it appears to

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Speaker 2: be flourishing.

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Speaker 7: This is someone who wants to really control Harlem's numbers racket.

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Speaker 7: He had been pretty successful in forcing black numbers bankers

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Speaker 7: out of their businesses by force by violence.

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Speaker 2: But just like Eunice, Harlem's policy queen is no pushover.

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Speaker 7: Stephanie Sainclair is not going to let someone like a

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Speaker 7: Dutch Shultz come in and take the business.

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Speaker 2: So in the early thirties, just as Unice is holding

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Speaker 2: her ground, trying to find a path forward in the

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Speaker 2: male dominated world of law and preventing her career from stagnating,

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Speaker 2: Stephanie Saint Clair is holding her ground too. She's engaged

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Speaker 2: in a game of cat and mouse with Schultz. Rumor

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Speaker 2: has it she's taken to walking across Harlem's rooftops to

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Speaker 2: avoid being spotted by Dutch or his cronies on the street.

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Speaker 2: Because Stephanie is still working her numbers business even as

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Speaker 2: Dutch is trying to box her out, but the mafia

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Speaker 2: has no issues with strong arming women. With the walls

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Speaker 2: of prohibition coming down, mobsters across New York are on

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Speaker 2: the move.

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Speaker 9: It's not just the occasional bandit that would stick up

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Speaker 9: a liquor store. It was very well organized and very

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Speaker 9: violent coming out of prohibition.

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Speaker 2: And the press are jumping on this emerging story. Suddenly,

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Speaker 2: these mobsters are no longer the friendly facilitators of your

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Speaker 2: boozy party are putting the wine on your table with dinner.

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Speaker 1: They're coming for you.

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Speaker 2: They want a thumb in every pie, and they don't

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Speaker 2: care if that pie is baked with your blood. It's

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Speaker 2: a story that's salacious, it's got drama. It's perfect for

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Speaker 2: crime reporters to fill their columns.

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Speaker 10: All of a sudden, we began to see more panic.

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Speaker 2: And readers are told this crime wave isn't just in

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Speaker 2: the underworld. It's seeping into everyday life. The rise of

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Speaker 2: the criminal underworld. Every mobster is a direct threat to

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Speaker 2: the American way of life. Imagine opening up your morning

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Speaker 2: paper and reading that while you do your god given

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Speaker 2: duty as an American husband and father, going to work

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Speaker 2: each day to put food on the table. Some flashy

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Speaker 2: gangster wants to rob your store, or kidnap your daughter,

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Speaker 2: or make you give up your hard earned salary for protection.

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Speaker 2: Nowhere is safe. Everything has value to the mob.

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Speaker 9: This market economy crazy. Everything's for sale. The leading hoodlums

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Speaker 9: of the day as well as Luciano, talked about everything

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Speaker 9: being for sale. This is the ultimate market. So cops

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Speaker 9: are for sale, prosecutors are for sale, judges are for sale.

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Speaker 9: Sex is for sale. Women are for sale. Everything's for sale.

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Speaker 9: And whether it's the cop on a beat, then you

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Speaker 9: give them five bucks to look the other way, or

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Speaker 9: whether it's somebody higher up in the system or wherever

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Speaker 9: they were ineffective.

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Speaker 2: Those who have been quietly operating on just the other

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Speaker 2: side of the law until recently, whether it's numbers like

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Speaker 2: Stephanie Saint Clair or in sex work like Coochie Flow,

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Speaker 2: are now labeled as complicit with the ones trying to

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Speaker 2: take over their businesses. Suddenly they're the culprit. It's in

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Speaker 2: a much bigger scandal.

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Speaker 9: New York was practically a failed city. The ability of

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Speaker 9: the state and the police to maintain law and order

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Speaker 9: in a democratic way was largely failing, and that there

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Speaker 9: were all these people. All these gangsters of all kinds,

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Speaker 9: who operated as virtually independent warlords were practically taking or

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Speaker 9: the city.

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Speaker 2: Are things really as bad as they seem? Is the

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Speaker 2: very fabric of society falling apart. By the time the

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Speaker 2: Guardia is elected as mayor on January first, nineteen thirty four,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't seem to matter.

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Speaker 9: Every politician in New York promised to do something about this.

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Speaker 9: Certainly a Fiorella or the Guardia promised that he would

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Speaker 9: be the one who would find some way to deal

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Speaker 9: with completely out of control of crime. There was a

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Speaker 9: push by all sorts of people to do something.

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Speaker 2: The story of how New York came to a point

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Speaker 2: is mob Crusader is a little convoluted. For the detail oriented,

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Speaker 2: it's a story Unis might enjoy herself, but for others

300
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Speaker 2: it was essentially on the one hand, a problem.

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Speaker 9: In New York was, how do you take this random

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Speaker 9: mayhem of violence and bring it under the law. How

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00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,359
Speaker 9: do you do that? That's very difficult.

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Speaker 1: And on the other a seemingly unlikely solution.

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Speaker 9: Let's have a democratic process that is competent, that is transparent,

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Speaker 9: but is also strong enough to repress all of this

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Speaker 9: terrible violence. That was the great challenge that LaGuardia faced

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Speaker 9: in the thirties.

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Speaker 2: The stars needed to somehow align for someone to be

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Speaker 2: given actual power to go after the mob But who, who,

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Speaker 2: in the corrupt world of nineteen thirties politics, would be

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Speaker 2: given that kind of authority, and who would even want

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Speaker 2: to take on such a dangerous task.

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Speaker 1: Well, the answer.

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Speaker 2: Came from something called a runaway grand jury. They're basically

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Speaker 2: a group of citizens chosen to investigate specific allegations of

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Speaker 2: corruption and vice. But the New York d who appointed

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Speaker 2: them had underestimated how impatient.

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Speaker 1: They were for change.

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Speaker 2: They've had enough of the state of politics and corruption

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Speaker 2: in New York.

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Speaker 9: And there was a big stink.

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Speaker 2: And so the grand jury ran away all the way

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Speaker 2: to the Governor of New York up in Albany.

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Speaker 9: Grand juries can do lots of stuff, and once they're impaneled,

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Speaker 9: they not only can call in witnesses and so on,

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Speaker 9: but they can complain about attorneys.

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Speaker 2: Their runaway grand jury demands the governor appoint someone strong

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Speaker 2: enough to rid the city of mobsters once and for all.

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Speaker 9: All right, all right, all right, I'll appoint a special

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Speaker 9: prosecutor to basically replace the sitting district attorney.

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Speaker 2: But the still raises the question of who would want

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Speaker 2: to do this. It's not like there's a long list

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Speaker 2: of bipartisan people with the necessary experience who are going

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Speaker 2: to raise their hands to make matters worse. All of

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Speaker 2: the governor's initial candidates for the job are rejected by

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Speaker 2: the grand Jury members. They want someone's an energetic.

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Speaker 9: Efficient, confident, hardworking, not camera.

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Speaker 2: Shy, focused and ambitious, someone with an extremely striking mustache.

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Speaker 11: Thomas Dewey enters the picture on that platform.

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Speaker 2: Just a few years after Addie and William Hunton welcomed

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Speaker 2: their sugar into the world and named her Unice. Thomas

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Speaker 2: Dewey was born to a middle class family in a Wassaw, Michigan.

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Speaker 2: Like Eunice, his education was marked by academic excellence. Also,

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Speaker 2: like Eunice, Dewey's parents were committed Republicans. His dad was

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Speaker 2: a newspaper man who owned and published a Michigan paper.

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Speaker 9: It was an abolitionist newspaper, a pro Lincoln newspaper, and

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Speaker 9: Dewey himself was very attentive to the media of the day.

349
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Speaker 9: As a child, he grew up with this realization that

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Speaker 9: the printed paper that was important.

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Speaker 2: Ever since his early days, Dewey had been something of

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Speaker 2: a ham. He loves putting on a good show, despite

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Speaker 2: what some consider an unremarkable appearance. Always well groomed, He's

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Speaker 2: average height with slick backed hair, part it carefully on

355
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Speaker 2: the left side. You could practically count the teeth marks

356
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Speaker 2: from his comb. But that facial hair he.

357
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Speaker 9: Insisted on having his little mustache that irritated people. I

358
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Speaker 9: can remember my dad, who grew up in New York State,

359
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 9: saying he'd never vote for that Dewey guy because of

360
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Speaker 9: that badgum mustache. And I would think, Dad, what's the

361
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:31,479
Speaker 9: mustache got to do with it?

362
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Speaker 1: And Dewey's demeanor yloof, cocky, conceded, condescending, He rubbed a

363
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Speaker 1: lot of people the wrong way.

364
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Speaker 9: But he was also ambitious.

365
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Speaker 1: Dewey has one powerful tool for success.

366
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Speaker 9: As a very young man growing up in Michigan, he

367
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Speaker 9: was blessed with this remarkable voice, this great baritone voice.

368
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Speaker 9: He thought he was going to be a singer, and

369
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Speaker 9: he always had a kind of theatrical side to him.

370
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Speaker 2: In college, he'd actually traveled down to North Carolina for

371
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 2: a singing competition.

372
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Speaker 9: And young Tom Dewey sang his way around in the mountains.

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Speaker 1: Singing was how Dewey met his future wife.

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Speaker 2: Of course, in the end he doesn't pursue a singing career,

375
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Speaker 2: but he'd continued to use that voice.

376
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Speaker 12: You witnessed the tragic effect of crime on its victims,

377
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 12: the unbelievable viciousness of the underworld.

378
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Speaker 2: This is from a radio show dow We had on WNYC.

379
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: Somehow hypnotic yet energizing at the same time.

380
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 12: The hardships under which the police another law enforcement agencies labor,

381
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 12: and the schemes and tricks to which criminals resort to

382
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Speaker 12: get around the law.

383
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Speaker 2: As Eunice was starting her writing and social career during

384
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Speaker 2: the nineteen twenties Harlem Renaissance, Dewey had moved to New

385
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 2: York and launched his legal career, initially in private practice

386
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Speaker 2: as a lawyer on Wall Street.

387
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Speaker 1: But that was just the start. Thomas E.

388
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Speaker 13: Dewey decided at one point to have political aspiration along

389
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Speaker 13: with his law enforcement aspirations.

390
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,919
Speaker 1: For Dewey, the law is just a wrong on a ladder.

391
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Speaker 9: The problem is that as a politician he lived in

392
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 9: an age of basically very charming and lovable politicians. Franklin

393
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 9: Roosevelt had enough charm for about twelve different people. Fiorella

394
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,959
Speaker 9: LaGuardia also a very charming kind of character. So Dewey

395
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 9: had great strengths, but on the charm scale he was

396
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 9: a little challenged.

397
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Speaker 2: But as the son of a newspaper man, do we

398
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Speaker 2: know some things the other want to be politicians don't.

399
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Speaker 9: He was friendly with the press because he understood that

400
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 9: to get attention to him, which he craved, it was

401
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 9: important to be involved with the.

402
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 2: Media, and that irritating little mustache doesn't have quite the

403
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 2: same impact over the airwaves six.

404
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 4: Pm Naval Observatory Time, New York City's own station WNYC.

405
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 2: As far as cutting edge mass media tech goes in

406
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 2: the nineteen thirties, audio is it.

407
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 4: Ladies and gentlemen of the radio audiuce.

408
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 2: And Dewey is learning how to use it for his

409
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 2: own purposes.

410
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 4: Station WNYC occupies a prominent place among the radio stations

411
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 4: of our country in the presentation and discussion of the many,

412
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 4: complex and multiple problems which confront all people.

413
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 2: Radio is his specialty, but as his career progresses, he

414
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 2: keeps all the media close, making sure he's making the

415
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 2: right kind of news.

416
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 14: I don't think he ever felt that he couldn't manipulate

417
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 14: the press. He knew exactly how to deal with reporters

418
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 14: and with journalists. Did he get that from his family,

419
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 14: from his father?

420
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: Maybe he did.

421
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 14: He knew how to manipulate people, he knew how to

422
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 14: talk to people.

423
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 2: By the time Eunice was finishing law school, Dewey had

424
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 2: left Wall Street behind for new opportunities, and around the

425
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: time she's failing her first law exams in nineteen thirty one,

426
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 2: he's being appointed as a prosecutor and chief Assistant US Attorney.

427
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 2: As Dewey looks around him at the career trajectory of

428
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: other lawyers in his new role, it.

429
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: Seems obvious.

430
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 2: The higher the profile of the defendant in the dock,

431
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 2: the more pressed attention the prosecutor gets, and the faster

432
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 2: they move up the career ladder. So in nineteen thirty three,

433
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,640
Speaker 2: just as Eunice was about to set up her own

434
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 2: law practice down the street from the Tree of Hope,

435
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 2: Dewey gets his shot in the crosshairs. Was a notorious

436
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 2: former bootlegger.

437
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 9: Waxy Gordon was one of his first.

438
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 2: Targets, and Dewey is soon making headlines for convicting this

439
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,360
Speaker 2: wanted gangster on tax evasion.

440
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,479
Speaker 9: And that's how he first got involved with prosecuting organized crime.

441
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 2: Next, Dewey turns his eye toward another gangster with another

442
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 2: great name, a colleague of Lucky Luciano's.

443
00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 11: And that was Irish American gangster Jack Legg's diamond.

444
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 2: Dewey helps put Leg's diamond away too. And so when

445
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,479
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty five comes around and the Governor of New

446
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 2: York is looking to appoint his mob busting special prosecutor,

447
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:18,239
Speaker 2: there was the man with the mustache.

448
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: Thomas E.

449
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 13: Dewey came up like the boys Scout prosecutor.

450
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 2: Someone not yet tainted by corruption by partisan white male do.

451
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 9: We had a reputation among both Republicans and Democrats.

452
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: Honestly, the governor doesn't have many other options.

453
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 11: Thomas Dewey was an idealist. Thomas Dewey was a crusader

454
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 11: who grabbed on to the general public's disenchantment with gangsterism

455
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 11: as a whole.

456
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: It has to be Dewey.

457
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 11: He totally fit the bill for a guy to take

458
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 11: down the mob.

459
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 2: Dewey is officially appointed to the role in the spring

460
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 2: of nineteen thirty five He's thirty three years old with

461
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 2: about a decade of law experience. Dewey knows he needs

462
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 2: to strike strategically. A high profile blow was the answer,

463
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: like Waxy and Legs, but this time he needs someone

464
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 2: even bigger, someone with an even more violent reputation. One

465
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 2: of these gangsters had gotten rich during Prohibition and is

466
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 2: now spreading out his operations across New York. A huge,

467
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 2: high profile target, he chooses Dutch Schultz. Dutch is going

468
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 2: to be Dewey's ticket to the top, and Dewey knows

469
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 2: he's not going to be able to take him out

470
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: on his own. As Dutch chases Stephanie Saint Clair across

471
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 2: Harlem's rooftops, Dewey knows he needs someone on the ground uptown.

472
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 2: It's important to remember respectability is a type of performance.

473
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 2: Lucky Luciano dresses himself in fancy clothes and jewelry to

474
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 2: hide his rough beginnings and fit in places he may

475
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: not have been allowed otherwise, And from the summer of

476
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty five, Dewey has his mob crusade to rebuild

477
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 2: the public's trust in the law. Even though Eunice came

478
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: from a middle class, well educated black family, it's easy

479
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 2: to assume she still has to be careful about showcasing

480
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: her intelligence and predominantly white spaces to avoid ruffling any feathers,

481
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 2: both in her legal career and as she starts participating

482
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: in politics working for the LaGuardia campaign. In nineteen twenty nine,

483
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 2: when Unice first started political campaigning during that temporary break

484
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 2: from law school, the Republican Party was losing black voters,

485
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 2: and by nineteen thirty two, as she's graduating from Fordham

486
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: and setting up her own practice, the Republican Party is

487
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 2: running black candidates in urban districts. In Harlem, an otherwise

488
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 2: popular incumbent had his campaign severely weakened by corruption allegations.

489
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 2: The Republican Party hoped to find the right candidate to

490
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 2: replace him in the State Assembly. Ideally, they wanted a

491
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 2: black person who was smart, ambitious, outspoken, someone from a

492
00:30:52,960 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 2: good family who knew Harlem well Eunice Hunting Carter. The

493
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 2: summer of nineteen thirty four is the hottest on record,

494
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 2: and as Unice begins campaigning for the nineteenth district Assembly seat,

495
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 2: I picked to her standing in the heat of a

496
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,719
Speaker 2: curious but skeptical Harlem crowd.

497
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: As she makes this.

498
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 5: Speech for myself, I make no please. I live here,

499
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 5: I have lived here, I am going to continue to

500
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 5: live here. I am one of you, and I want

501
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 5: things for Harlem. I have an eight year old son

502
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 5: whom I hope will live and who I expect to

503
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 5: work here. You have known me for the better part

504
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 5: of half of my life that I have lived right

505
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 5: here with you. I need say no more as to

506
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 5: my interest in this community than the fact that I

507
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 5: will put the community first.

508
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 2: Despite her socialized status, Unice could not have failed to

509
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 2: see the way many in Harlem had suffered during the

510
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 2: Great Depression.

511
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 7: So if you were already poor during the Harlem Renaissance,

512
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 7: than you were extremely poor during the nineteen thirties. Now,

513
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 7: people who were already subjected to low wage household work

514
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 7: have to compete with white people who in normal times

515
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 7: would not take those low paying jobs.

516
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 2: Unice's commitment to the community wins her the endorsement of

517
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 2: the Amsterdam News and the New York Age. She opens

518
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 2: a campaign headquarters just a few blocks north of her

519
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 2: law practice on the Boulevard of Dreams, even closer to

520
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: the Tree of Hope this time, so she might have

521
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: seen with her own eyes the day workmen arrived to

522
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 2: cut it down. It's a Monday in late August. That

523
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 2: hottest of summer is drawing to a close. Seventh Avenue

524
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 2: is set to be widened, and so the tree has

525
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: got to go. A crowd of onlookers gathered to watch,

526
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 2: taking chips of bark with them as souvenirs for a

527
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 2: piece of luck. Just a couple of months after the

528
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 2: tree of Hope comes down, so too do Unice's dreams

529
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 2: of political office.

530
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 14: She lost by an extremely narrow margin. She almost beat

531
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 14: somebody very popular and incumbent.

532
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 2: Unice doesn't win the Assembly seat, but she does win herself.

533
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 2: Some powerful political allies. Fiorello LaGuardia, who's now won his

534
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 2: second run at mayor, is among them, and soon she'll

535
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 2: have the opportunity to put her commitment to community to

536
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: the test.

537
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 14: Shortly after that election, there was this terrible race riot

538
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 14: in Harlem.

539
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 2: March nineteen thirty five is the day the Harlem race

540
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 2: riot began. Art when a teenage boy gets arrested at

541
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 2: a local store.

542
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 15: After being accused of shoplifting and a store, a white

543
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 15: store in Harlem.

544
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 7: The police beat him up a little bit, But there's

545
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 7: this room that spreads in Harlem that he's killed.

546
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 15: He's not killed, he was whisked away by the police.

547
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 2: This kid, Lino Rivera, is assumed to have been beaten

548
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 2: to death. An agitated crowd descends on the store. A

549
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 2: nearby ambulance speeding away from the scene heightens their confusion.

550
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 2: Suddenly frustrations reached the surface.

551
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 15: Black people were angry, not only because of the arrest

552
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 15: of that young black man. This is during the depression

553
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 15: when everybody was suffering, but African Americans suffered even more.

554
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,959
Speaker 15: All of Black Harlem was not wealthy or elite, lack

555
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 15: of jobs, lack of adequate housing, just determed of getting

556
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 15: a meal, getting something.

557
00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 7: To eat, being surveiled by police, subject to verbal violence

558
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 7: by the police, physical violence by the police, intense policing

559
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 7: of black bodies, and also black spaces to any type

560
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 7: of public space becomes criminalized because there's this perception about

561
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 7: black people and who they are.

562
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,959
Speaker 2: Within hours, hundreds have gathered in protest. Then someone throws

563
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 2: a rock through the store window.

564
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 15: That was the spark that really ignited.

565
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 2: Rioting begins throughout the neighborhood. Even though the teenager originally

566
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 2: accused of theft had already been arrested and released. Misinformation, confusion,

567
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 2: and long held grievances take over.

568
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 15: The revolt against the conditions in which the majority of

569
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 15: black people were living during that time.

570
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 2: When the rioting subsides, three people have died. There is

571
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 2: an estimated two million dollars in property damage across the community.

572
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:17,720
Speaker 14: The Mayor, Firella LaGuardia immediately said we have to do something.

573
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 14: Within days, he appointed a commission to look into what

574
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 14: are the causes of this riot and how do we

575
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 14: stop this from happening again.

576
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 2: Mayor LaGuardia staffs up his commission with more black members

577
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 2: than white, and he.

578
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,240
Speaker 14: Knew Unus just because she had run for office.

579
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 15: She was the only woman on the commission.

580
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 14: And as secretary she kept the books. She was kind

581
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 14: of you in charge of what was going on and

582
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 14: keeping the minutes. So this group met and they came

583
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 14: up with some really great suggestions.

584
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 15: And their report pointed out the reasons for the revolt

585
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 15: and what needed to be done to ensure that African Americans'

586
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 15: concerns were addressed.

587
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 14: They did a great job, and this was partially because

588
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 14: of Unis.

589
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 15: If you look at that final version of that report

590
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,919
Speaker 15: and was for the time radical in its own right,

591
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 15: because it clearly pinpointed the issues that black people were

592
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 15: dealing with and noted that there were specific kinds of

593
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 15: changes that needed to occur to address the concerns of

594
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 15: the black community.

595
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 2: The significance of this movement is probably not in what

596
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 2: the Commission would go on to achieve. Many of their

597
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 2: final report recommendations are seen as too progressive, and it

598
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 2: will not surprise you to learn that police brutality, inequality,

599
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 2: and economic disparity all continue in Harlem despite the work

600
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 2: Units and her peers put into the Commission. The Commission

601
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,479
Speaker 2: may have been window dressing, but it also marks another

602
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 2: key moment in Unice's ambition. Units had been chosen by

603
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 2: white men nificant power. Her name is clearly out there

604
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 2: now for positions of influence. She's a name the establishment

605
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 2: feels they can trust.

606
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: To call on.

607
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 2: Maybe not across all of New York, but definitely in Harlem.

608
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 2: While Eunice is working on this committee, she's also spending

609
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 2: some of her time volunteering as a kind of law

610
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 2: clerk in a women's court.

611
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 13: Sounds outrageously sexist today, but there actually was a women's court.

612
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 10: In New York City. The women's court is in a

613
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,919
Speaker 10: building that still stands, called the Jefferson Market Courthouse.

614
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:39,439
Speaker 13: It is a.

615
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 10: Beautiful old Gothic brick building with a big bell tower.

616
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,800
Speaker 10: Now actually not far from where the Mott Street Gang

617
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 10: began and had their headquarters. A court that was devoted

618
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 10: entirely to females cremitting crimes like shoplifting or prostitution, or

619
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 10: whatever kinds of vagrancy, whatever sorts of things that women

620
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 10: could be accused of, came out of that same period

621
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 10: that prohibition comes out of that. It seems unlady like

622
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 10: to have strangers sitting in court staring at these women

623
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 10: as they talk about these vice ridden lifestyles and all

624
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 10: these crimes.

625
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 2: In the summer of nineteen thirty five, Unice's volunteering pays off.

626
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 2: The New York DA appoints Unice as an assistant prosecutor

627
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 2: in the court.

628
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 14: So when Eunice was hired at the Prosecutor's office in

629
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 14: thirty five, she was the first black woman in the

630
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 14: New York Prosecutor's Office.

631
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 2: I'm fascinated by Unice's decision to become a prosecutor and

632
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 2: not a public defender. For someone looking to uplift the

633
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: black community, it seems an unusual choice.

634
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 16: I wonder if she saw it as a challenge as

635
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 16: one of the few women and African Americans going into

636
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 16: being a prosecutor. Anyone who is a prosecutor, they were

637
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 16: all pretty feisty and self confident, and I really admire that.

638
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,280
Speaker 16: At the same time, I think there are African Americans

639
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 16: who go into becoming prosecutors because it is a traditional

640
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 16: route to power.

641
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 2: A route to power. Maybe that's it. It's certainly not.

642
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: The glamour of the women's court.

643
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 10: It was dingy and dirty. There weren't even electric lights

644
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 10: for much of the early twentieth century. It was jammed

645
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 10: with lawyers and dirty cops and judges. It was no

646
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 10: place that anybody wanted to be, but many women were

647
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 10: there of dozens and dozens of times.

648
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 2: The drama of the court has to get Unice's blood

649
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 2: pumping more than the wills and contracts he was leaving

650
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 2: behind in her private practice. Plus Unice excels and research

651
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 2: like going through court documents, so there's plenty of work,

652
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: booking forms, evidence sheets, courtroom transcripts. Detail heaven for someone

653
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 2: like Unice, she looks through every piece of paper she can.

654
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 2: I can picture Unis at a table in the courtroom

655
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 2: with poor lighting, in a room that smells like smoke.

656
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 2: Everyone smoked in public back then. I wonder if she

657
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 2: has a little ashtray by her side. As she pours

658
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 2: over the documents, she probably likes noticing the way information

659
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,879
Speaker 2: gets distilled from the frantic energy of the courtroom into

660
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:31,280
Speaker 2: the stenographer's notes. And as she sits there, she starts

661
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 2: noticing patterns. Who signs their names with ex's how often

662
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 2: the same women get picked up, or how so many

663
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 2: of them have the same lawyer it's the same lawyer

664
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 2: for all the women being released without a conviction.

665
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 1: Does she talk.

666
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 2: About this pattern with her colleagues? Someone as detail focused

667
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 2: ash she is probably begins taking her own notes, just

668
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 2: in case they'll be useful later. Unice doesn't strike me

669
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 2: as a woman who would notice these things and shrug them.

670
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 8: Off, files that knowledge away.

671
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 2: Unice keeps her nose to the grindstone. But soon someone

672
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 2: from city Hall calls looking for her. Because while Unice

673
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 2: has been learning the ropes at the Women's Court, Thomas

674
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 2: Dewey has been appointed new York's Special Prosecutor, and now

675
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 2: he's assembling a team.

676
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 14: Thomas Dewey said, I am looking for the twenty best

677
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 14: attorneys in New York.

678
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,919
Speaker 2: Hey receives a huge number of applications from lawyers who

679
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,720
Speaker 2: all believe they're worthy.

680
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,240
Speaker 14: Because everybody wanted this glamorous, kind of sexy case.

681
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 2: But Dewey doesn't just want the best. He's looking for

682
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 2: people with very specific skills.

683
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 14: I don't care their race, I don't care their religion,

684
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 14: I don't care their gender. I want the best people.

685
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 14: He also named Jewish attorneys at the time there were

686
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 14: such a strong streak of anti Semitism.

687
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 2: Who first suggested the name Eunice Hunting Carter, one.

688
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 14: Of Dewey's assistants, described her was, Oh, she's a real

689
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 14: go getter. Dewey said, let me interview her. She looks

690
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 14: like she might be a candidate for this.

691
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 2: Now.

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00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 14: What made it even harder for Unice was, you can

693
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 14: imagine all these people are white. They're all men. You know,

694
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 14: how on earth would a black woman be on this team.

695
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 14: It was the mid thirties.

696
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,399
Speaker 1: This doesn't seem to put Dewey off.

697
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 8: He knows he needs to assemble a strong team, but

698
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 8: he also has to assemble a kind of diverse and

699
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 8: also kind of unknown team. And that's because he has

700
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 8: to assemble people who if they're going out into the community,

701
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 8: if they're questioning witnesses, if they're questioning anyone, they don't

702
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 8: necessarily want immediately for someone like dut Schultz to be like,

703
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 8: I know that cop, I know that prosecutor. I've seen

704
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 8: that attorney before. They want people who are knowledgeable but

705
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 8: still a little bit outside of this world.

706
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: Like Unice Carter.

707
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 14: She knows Harlem. Dewey talk to her and he said, yes,

708
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 14: I want her on my team.

709
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 2: On July first, nineteen thirty five, Special Prosecutor Thomas A.

710
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 2: Dewey appoints Unice Hunting Carter as a deputy Assistant prosecutor

711
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 2: and the largest investigation of organized crime in US history.

712
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: Unice Carter is just thirty six years old, the only

713
00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 2: woman and the only person of color on Dewey's team, the.

714
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: Only black woman.

715
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 2: Her hiring instantly makes national news, but that's nothing compared

716
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 2: to the headlines she's about to generate that's coming up

717
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 2: in episode five of The Godmother. In this episode of

718
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 2: The Godmother, you heard.

719
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 10: I'm Debbie Applegate. I'm a historian and biographer, and I

720
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 10: am the author of Madam, The Biography of Polyadler Icon

721
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 10: of the Jazz Age.

722
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 11: My name is Christian Sippolini and I am an organized

723
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 11: crime historian and author.

724
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 14: I'm Marilyn Greenwald. I'm a professor Emerita of Journalism at

725
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 14: Ohio University, and I'm the author of five biographies, including

726
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 14: one of Eunice Hunt and Carter.

727
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: My name is Leshawn Harris.

728
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 7: I am an Associate professor of history at Michigan State

729
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 7: University in the Department of History.

730
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 15: My name is doctor Clarissa Myrik Harris, and I am

731
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 15: a tenured professor of Africana Studies at Moorhouse College in Atlanta, Georgia.

732
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 2: HI.

733
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 17: My name is Ellen Paulson. My research and I write

734
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 17: books about criminal acts and davis that took place during

735
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 17: the nineteen thirties in the United States, and my focus

736
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 17: so far has been women who were involved with notworious

737
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 17: gangsters and desperadoes.

738
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:41,280
Speaker 9: My name is Robert Whalan and I'm an Amerithus Professor

739
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 9: of History at Queen's University of Charlotte here in Charlotte,

740
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 9: North Carolina.

741
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 8: I am Claire White, and I am the director of

742
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 8: Education at the Mob Museum in downtown Las Vegas.

743
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,760
Speaker 16: I'm Gatherine Powell, the Unis Hunt and Carter Research Professor

744
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 16: of Law at Port of Law School.

745
00:46:58,080 --> 00:46:59,240
Speaker 9: My name is Chuck Greeves.

746
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 18: Becoming a writer, I spent twenty five years as a

747
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 18: Los Angeles trial lawyer. My fourth novel was basically a

748
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 18: fictionalization of the famous nineteen thirty six vice trial.

749
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 2: The Godmother is produced by Novel for iHeartRadio. For more

750
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 2: from novel, visit novel dot Audio. The Godmother is hosted

751
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 2: and written by me Nicole Perkins. Our producer is Leona Hamid.

752
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 2: Additional production from Ajuajima Broumpong, Ronald Young Junior and Zianna Yusuf.

753
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 2: Our editor is Ajua Jima Broumpong. Additional story editing from

754
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 2: Max O'Brien and Mitha Lee Raw and our researcher is

755
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 2: Ziana Yusuf. Additional research from Mohammed Ahmed. David Waters is

756
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 2: our executive producer. Field production by Tnito Romani and Pallas Shaw,

757
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 2: Sound design, mixing and school by Daniel Kempsen. Our score

758
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 2: was written, performed and recorded by Jeff Parker. Music supervision

759
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 2: by Nicholas Alexander and David Waters. Production management and endless

760
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 2: patients from Charie Houston, Sarah Tobin and Charlotte Wolfe. Fact

761
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 2: checking by Fendel Fulton and Donia Suleiman. Story development by

762
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:26,879
Speaker 2: Madeline Parr, Jess Swinburne, Esseana Yusuf. Willard Foxton is our

763
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 2: Creative Director of Development. Special thanks to Leah Carter, Stephen Carter,

764
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 2: Angela J. Davis, Andrew Fernley, Marilyn Greenwald, Sondra Lebedy, Katherine Godfrey,

765
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 2: Nadia Maidie, Amalia Sortland, Sean Glenn, Neil Krishnan, Julia Bromberg,

766
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 2: Katrina Norvelle, Carly Frankel, and all the team at w

767
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 2: Emmy

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00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 1: Novel