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Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports show, but we

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Speaker 1: explore the big money issues in the world of sports.

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Speaker 1: I'm like Laura, I'm Scarlett Folk, and I'm Damian Sassur.

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Speaker 1: Today we're doing another dive into the state of name,

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Speaker 1: image and likeness or n I L in college sports.

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Speaker 1: There's been movement in Congress over n i L lately,

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Speaker 1: with several lawmakers crafting bills. Not too long ago, you'll

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Speaker 1: recall that we spoke with Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut

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Speaker 1: about legislation that he co authored for one of them.

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Speaker 1: College sports, in particular, big time college football and basketball

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Speaker 1: are professional sports. They make billions of dollars for adults

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Speaker 1: um and these kids are kept in poverty. I would

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Speaker 1: like ultimately to see a more comprehensive system of reimbursement

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Speaker 1: for these athletes, especially again the ones that are playing

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Speaker 1: in the money making sports. For the time being, the

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Speaker 1: best we can do is just getting them compensation for

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Speaker 1: endorsement deals. That was Senator Chris Murphy giving his perspective

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Speaker 1: on n I L legislation on the Bloomberg Business of

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Speaker 1: Sports Show. You can hear our full conversation with him

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Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast online at Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: dot com, Slash Podcasts and wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: And now we bring in another lawmaker passionate about n

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Speaker 1: I L. Senator Tommy Tuberville of Alabama. He is a

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Speaker 1: former college coach and is working with Senator Joe Manchin

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Speaker 1: on n I L. Senator, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: taking your time and joining us here on the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business of Sports here. You know, Chris Murphy makes it

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Speaker 1: sound easy and not easy. What that which That's a

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Speaker 1: good question to start out with. What other hurdles involved

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Speaker 1: in this? Oh? My goodness. Uh, you know, of course,

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Speaker 1: as you said, I've been in it for forty years.

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Speaker 1: I've seen the good and the bad. Indifferent. You know.

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Speaker 1: The one thing that that that Joe Manson and Corey

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Speaker 1: Booker has been working with us too. You know that

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Speaker 1: we all really care about sports. Uh. Chris Murphy was

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Speaker 1: talking about the sports that might money and giving back

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Speaker 1: to those athletes in those sports. You can't do that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you gotta. It's gotta be all athletes got

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Speaker 1: to be men and women and it should be. And so, uh,

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Speaker 1: we're trying to tackle an issue that is very broad,

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Speaker 1: and we want to do it for several reasons. We

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Speaker 1: want to protect the athlete, but we also want to

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Speaker 1: protect education because this is not about pro sports. This

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Speaker 1: is about the opportunity to go to a university and

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Speaker 1: get a degree and and hopefully it's fulfill your future,

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Speaker 1: uh past any pro athletics that you might have the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to get involved in. So we're working hard at that. Again.

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Speaker 1: Uh it's uh, there's a lot involved, not just the

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Speaker 1: n I oh, but also the transfer portal, which I'm

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Speaker 1: very passionate about. Uh it. You know, we need to

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Speaker 1: do things, as I said earlier, to protect the student athlete,

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Speaker 1: all of them all around from three to six hundred

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Speaker 1: on college campuses, and protect the education part to make

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Speaker 1: sure that they have an opportunit energy once they leave

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Speaker 1: that university or whatever university, if they have a chance

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Speaker 1: to go go and live a better life. So it's

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Speaker 1: complex of Spreme Court says, hey, they can make money

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Speaker 1: off their name. I'm all for it. I was all

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Speaker 1: for kids making money off their name once they came

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Speaker 1: to college. But you've got to understand it is very

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Speaker 1: complex and you don't want to use it to tear

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Speaker 1: down the system. So we've got a new got a

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Speaker 1: new n C double a president. He's gonna come in.

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Speaker 1: He's not gonna make a big difference in this. But

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Speaker 1: hopefully we'll have something done here in the very future

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Speaker 1: that we can make all fifty states, all of them

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Speaker 1: over the same rules. So, Michael Barr mentioned that you're

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Speaker 1: working with Senator Mansion. You mentioned your also you have

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Speaker 1: a Senator of a Corey book or involved, um and

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Speaker 1: of course there is uh Senator Chris Murphy working on

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Speaker 1: his legislation as well. What makes your different efforts distinct?

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Speaker 1: Why not work together? Well, we are, I mean they've

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Speaker 1: they've got a different avenue. They want to make uh

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Speaker 1: these players individual contractor uh unionized the players. We're not

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Speaker 1: doing that. Uh. That will never pass the floor. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it will never be signed, it will never become in

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Speaker 1: the law. We need to do something again to protect

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Speaker 1: the athletes and not broaden the range of of of

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Speaker 1: how complicated it is. They're not individual contractors. They're coming

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Speaker 1: to get an education and then if they make money

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Speaker 1: off their name and image while they're there, uh, so

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Speaker 1: be it. Then they should. So let's not make this

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Speaker 1: as as complicated as we have to and keep education

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Speaker 1: and the schools involved. Senator Chris Murphy, we also have

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Speaker 1: a bite of him. Uh. We asked him if there

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Speaker 1: was a bipartisan agreement on n I L and he

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Speaker 1: had this to say, Right now, Republicans are, you know,

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Speaker 1: seeking to give power back to the n c A

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Speaker 1: or back to the schools, are seeking to limit athletes

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Speaker 1: ability to be compensated. I I think there may be

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Speaker 1: some Democrats in that camp as well, But I'm of

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Speaker 1: the mind that we should be expanding player rates, that

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Speaker 1: we should be expanding compensation and models, and right now

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Speaker 1: there don't seem to be a lot of Republican partners in.

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Speaker 1: Matt Endeavor, can you respond to that and and your

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Speaker 1: thoughts about what Senator Murphy said, Yeah, you know, very easily.

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Speaker 1: I mean he's talking about a few players making money.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about that all of them, every athlete, men

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Speaker 1: and woman, in every sport, divided up equally. Now, I

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Speaker 1: think schools should take some of their TV money and

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Speaker 1: write it down where every athlete and every school it's

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Speaker 1: a check. I know some schools already do that. Some

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Speaker 1: schools pay ten thousand a year, or some play fifteen thousand,

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Speaker 1: or some twenty thousand year and and that's your call,

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Speaker 1: whatever you want to do. But uh, you know all

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Speaker 1: of them are not gonna make money off of their name,

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Speaker 1: image and likeness. You can probably take a handful of

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Speaker 1: kids every year that are going to actually have an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to make money off of their name. Uh. So

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Speaker 1: for everybody to be compensated, I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: the TV money has has to go in that direction.

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Speaker 1: And these schools are making a lot. I know in

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Speaker 1: the SEC and the Big Ten, their contracts in the

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Speaker 1: very near future are gonna be ninety million per team.

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Speaker 1: Now that's before you sell a parking spot, a ticket,

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Speaker 1: or a hot dog. And uh, that's a lot of money,

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Speaker 1: and so some of it should go to the players. Uh.

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Speaker 1: We're also coming to a point. Uh that's a reason

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Speaker 1: Cory Bookers involved with us. Uh. Uh he understands the

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Speaker 1: concussion syndrome injuries. We want to come up with something

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Speaker 1: where we take money from ever conference and probably the

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Speaker 1: football Playoff Committee. Uh, we get them to contribute every

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Speaker 1: year and to create a uh situation where we can

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Speaker 1: pay medical expenses after the fact after kids graduate, after

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Speaker 1: down the road. Because rightly, so and so with all

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Speaker 1: this money being made from uh, you know, all different areas.

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Speaker 1: I think we can come up with enough. Put it

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Speaker 1: in a pool, get a committee together, and uh uh

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Speaker 1: take care of a lot of these kids that need

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Speaker 1: to be taken care of after they've given all they

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Speaker 1: possibly can physically to a sport that they love. Center.

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Speaker 1: I want to switch gears with you a little bit here.

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Speaker 1: You are the two thousand four National Coach of the year.

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Speaker 1: He one of the top fifty most winningest football coaches

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Speaker 1: of all time. I wonder if you could talk to

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about the format for the n

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Speaker 1: C Double A Championship. I mean, the four team format.

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Speaker 1: There's been a lot of talk about expanding that. I

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Speaker 1: wonder what your stances on that, uh and also who

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Speaker 1: you like? Hey, well, uh, in two thousand fours, as

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Speaker 1: you said as a national coach, the year, we want

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Speaker 1: to undefeated, first ever undefeated team not to have an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to play for a national championship. And heck and

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Speaker 1: in that year we started seven teams and worked our

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Speaker 1: way all the way up to second Oklahoma and USC

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Speaker 1: and ended up playing for the national championship. We watched

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Speaker 1: from the outside laden Sugar Bowl that being said, after that, Uh,

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Speaker 1: they had to come up with an opportunity for an

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Speaker 1: undefeated team not to have a chance play. That's the

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Speaker 1: reason we came up with the with the four team playoffs,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I think it's worked very well. You're always

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Speaker 1: gonna have controversy. Uh. Now you see where we're going

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Speaker 1: to twelve teams. I'm not for that, obviously. Everybody knows

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Speaker 1: why we did that is for money. There's not twelve

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Speaker 1: teams that can compete for the National Championship and football

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Speaker 1: there's just not enough players, uh for that to happen.

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Speaker 1: And look, you got TCU in this year. Last year

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Speaker 1: you had Cincinnati. The formulas work. But again, ESPN and

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Speaker 1: a lot of these uh uh TV networks have made

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Speaker 1: a killing off college football and they will continue to

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Speaker 1: do that with this twelve team playoff. And as who

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Speaker 1: I like, I like Georgia. They got the best defense

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Speaker 1: and uh and if you've got the best defense, they

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Speaker 1: will show up in a two team playoff. Uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to play offense in a short period of time,

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Speaker 1: learning going against different players that you haven't seen, different schemes.

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Speaker 1: Like a team it's got a great defense that can

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Speaker 1: run a lot of athletes, and I think we just

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Speaker 1: gotta gotta h edge up on that now, whether it

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Speaker 1: happens that that's where you play the game. You mentioned

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Speaker 1: the SEC and the Big Ten, which of course will

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Speaker 1: soon be bigger than ten. Are we turning into an

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Speaker 1: SEC versus Big ten kind of college sports world where

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Speaker 1: only two conferences matter in football? You probably are. I've

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Speaker 1: always said there's probably five five conferences that will eventually

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Speaker 1: break away from the n C Double A have their

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Speaker 1: own governance. Uh. You know, the n C Double A

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Speaker 1: doesn't make any money off football anyway, they could care less.

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Speaker 1: They make billions off of basketball. And so I've always

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Speaker 1: thought that it would be best if if if the

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Speaker 1: football conferences kind of came together and say, listen, let's

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Speaker 1: govern ourselves. We were making enough money to break off,

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Speaker 1: get your football commissioner and uh and kind of run

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Speaker 1: it in that direction, because there's a lot of variables

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Speaker 1: that go into uh, college football. But you want to

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Speaker 1: make sure again, going back to what I talked about earlier,

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Speaker 1: the players an education. That's what this is about. What

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Speaker 1: and everybody wants to make this Chris Murphy wants to

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Speaker 1: make this a minor leagues work for the NFL, and

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Speaker 1: that's not what this is because you want to have

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Speaker 1: a very very small percentage of these young men that

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Speaker 1: can have an opportunity to even have an opportunity to

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Speaker 1: play a year to an NFL, much less make a

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Speaker 1: living at it. So we have got to make sure

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Speaker 1: that we while they're there, they get an education and

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Speaker 1: it goes forward. And uh, if they have a chance

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Speaker 1: to play, fine and make money. If they want to

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Speaker 1: make a little money, that's fine. Then a lot of

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Speaker 1: them are making a pretty good money right now with

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Speaker 1: their name Again, Supreme Court said, that's fine. I'm all

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Speaker 1: for it, But there's so many of them that don't

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Speaker 1: want to get an education and further their careers and

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Speaker 1: whatever they want to study. Center. I find it interesting,

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Speaker 1: you know, just going back to the reason you like

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Speaker 1: the Grega Bulldogs as the champion this year is because

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Speaker 1: they have a defense, right and that's coming from a

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Speaker 1: you know, a former defensive coordinator for three time not

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Speaker 1: and c double a champion at University of Miami Hurricanes,

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Speaker 1: which by the way, my son is starting there in

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Speaker 1: the fall. Just plugging myself. So here my question for

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Speaker 1: you is as as somebody who does focus on defense.

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Speaker 1: Talk to us about the timeline for any sort of

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Speaker 1: n A L legislation getting past, because right now it's

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Speaker 1: so dysfunctional, it's so cumbersome. You've got states trying to

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Speaker 1: pass their own set of all. I mean, well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: what are we talking about here in terms of timing. Well,

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Speaker 1: we'll hope to get it to spring obviously that you know,

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Speaker 1: it's there's timelines forever. Sport if when you go under

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Speaker 1: the portal, and and uh again when you sign scholarships.

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Speaker 1: You know, the biggest thing going right now in every

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Speaker 1: sport is you you you have a lot of fraud.

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Speaker 1: You have coaches going into some of these kids homes

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Speaker 1: recruiting said you come to our place and we'll get

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Speaker 1: you a two and fifty thousand all of contract working

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Speaker 1: for a car, watch or something, just making something up.

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Speaker 1: And then they show up and there's there's dozens of

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Speaker 1: situations now where kids are not compensated. Uh. So again

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Speaker 1: that's gotta there's gotta be over site on all this.

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Speaker 1: Uh and we need to take these collective groups out.

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Speaker 1: These collective groups for people listening, are are outside groups

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Speaker 1: of a university, and they go around and collect money uh,

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Speaker 1: from different businesses, corporations, and then they disperse the money out.

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Speaker 1: That's not what n n i Ola was about. And

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Speaker 1: I always about making that money off of your name,

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Speaker 1: off of the off your jersey, off of signing contracy office,

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Speaker 1: signing autographs and all that. I'm all for that, but

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Speaker 1: for an outside group to go out and raise money

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Speaker 1: and uh, possibly give somebody a contract that's really not

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Speaker 1: there for the length of time that they want to

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Speaker 1: sign it, and and uh, there's just way too too

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Speaker 1: many obstacles in the way a lot of these young

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Speaker 1: kids that don't have help. You know, we were for years,

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Speaker 1: we tried to keep agents out of it, lawyers out

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Speaker 1: of it, and just try to make sure they come,

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Speaker 1: got a degree in a few years and left and

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Speaker 1: and did whatever. But now these kids are having to

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Speaker 1: get lawyers agents, and uh, it's a free for all

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Speaker 1: right now. And we've got to straighten that out. And

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Speaker 1: then you throw in the transfer portal where kids sign

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Speaker 1: a three year contract as the first year. They said,

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Speaker 1: I'm transferring. But wait a minute, you've got a contract.

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Speaker 1: You can't do that. Uh, I mean it is there's

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Speaker 1: no rules, there's no rhyme or reason why we're doing this.

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Speaker 1: But again that's the we want to do the very

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Speaker 1: small things to help the big things, to make sure

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Speaker 1: everybody does it the same way, because we don't, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna lose it as we know it. The thing about

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Speaker 1: n I L or for that matter, any bipartisan agreement

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Speaker 1: is that both sides of the aisle have to come

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Speaker 1: together at least and try to get a marriage of it. Uh. Washington,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes, uh, it can be a hard place and

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Speaker 1: someone might say on the left side might say something

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Speaker 1: that the right doesn't something that the left doesn't like.

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Speaker 1: Have things cooled down? Now? I know you made you

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Speaker 1: comment about reparations. Have things cooled down? And and can

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Speaker 1: we move on from that? And what are your thoughts? Yeah, yeah, sure,

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Speaker 1: And of course that people took that out of context.

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Speaker 1: And to me, reparation does not have anything to do

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Speaker 1: on a certain group. It's all of us. Uh, it's everybody.

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Speaker 1: I mean I was talking about crime going out. Hey,

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Speaker 1: people are committing crimes, and that they want to they

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Speaker 1: want money by not working and not doing the things

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Speaker 1: that people all Americans, not all, but most Americans want

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Speaker 1: to try to do. They want to try to make

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Speaker 1: their own money and it's probably a bad analysis there.

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Speaker 1: But uh, that being said, that's reading. Cord Booker is

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Speaker 1: all for this, Field Mansions all for this. Uh, they

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Speaker 1: will deliver hopefully enough votes on the left and me

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Speaker 1: kind of running whatever on the on the right. What

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Speaker 1: we can get that done. But it's hard, it's very hard.

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Speaker 1: It's very very hard to and then what do you

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Speaker 1: have to do. You have to kick it to the

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Speaker 1: house and then you have to hope you've got people

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Speaker 1: over there it can get the job done. Then it's

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Speaker 1: got to go to the White House to be signed.

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Speaker 1: But I will say this, if we don't do something,

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Speaker 1: if we don't do something, probably in the next six

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Speaker 1: or seven months, we're gonna lose what we all know

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Speaker 1: is something that's been very good for old thousands and

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Speaker 1: thousands of young men and women who might not have

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to get an education. And so we need

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Speaker 1: to do what's right. We need to you know, if

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Speaker 1: people are good enough, young men and women are good

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Speaker 1: enough to make money off their name image, I'm allful

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Speaker 1: of that, but again it all goes back to thee

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Speaker 1: of them that are there to get an education to

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Speaker 1: better their future, not to belabor the point. But I

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Speaker 1: know that you've made a very successful career legacy off

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Speaker 1: your college football coaching days. You are certainly a mentor

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Speaker 1: to many athletes, and we know that college football rosters

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Speaker 1: are half of which are are black. Can you talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about as a person who coach and

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Speaker 1: mentored young black athletes? Have they given you any feedback

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Speaker 1: on on the comments that you did make about reparations.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and a lot of them, coach a

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Speaker 1: lot of the coach, we know what you believe in

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about. A lot of people don't understand

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Speaker 1: what you're saying because you come a from a team

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Speaker 1: side where everybody is the same and if somebody else

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Speaker 1: is trying to get away with something on the team

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Speaker 1: to make it easier for them, uh, you know, you'd

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Speaker 1: step on them and you would make sure, Hey, this

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Speaker 1: is a team sport. And the same thing that I

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Speaker 1: was talking about. You know, I've talked about any group

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Speaker 1: of people and said, hey, people have to committing these

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Speaker 1: crimes all over the country, and they're taken away from

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Speaker 1: people that are out there hard working, and so they understand.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I had someone explain what you're saying. Coach

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Speaker 1: and and uh, of course everything in this country now

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Speaker 1: for some reason is built on race, and we've got

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Speaker 1: to get away from that. Um. You know, if you

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Speaker 1: do that in any team sport, you would never you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't last five minutes. Our country can't survive the direction

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Speaker 1: we're going right now if we don't get away from that.

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Speaker 1: Because we're all Americans. Were all in us together, and uh,

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Speaker 1: we need to watch out for each other, protect to

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Speaker 1: each other. But understanding that we've got to work uh

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Speaker 1: in this country to make our country better. It's not

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Speaker 1: gonna get better but staying at a standstill. We've got

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Speaker 1: to go forward. Right now, we're not going forward. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we're in some areas we're going backwards. And a lot

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Speaker 1: like what I'm just talking about on this on this

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Speaker 1: n I L and you know, we had an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to make things, educate all these kids to go forward

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Speaker 1: to be the same we don't. You don't see color

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Speaker 1: and sports. I've been forty years of coaching. I didn't

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Speaker 1: see color when I was recruiting. And I've eaten more

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Speaker 1: homes of fights and Blacks and Asians than than you

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Speaker 1: can count on. I've been in the rich areas of

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Speaker 1: poor areas, the inner cities, the rule, and it is

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Speaker 1: a coach is somebody that sees it from a different perspective.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I was seeing from all this violence

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Speaker 1: that we got. I mean that you can't we can't

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Speaker 1: have a country where people are doing things and and

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Speaker 1: tearing our country up, and stealing and murdering people, and

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Speaker 1: and and tearing down small businesses and and doing the

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Speaker 1: things and not being controlled. Had nothing to do me

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Speaker 1: talking about people of color anything. Those are Americans doing

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Speaker 1: things that are wrong that are bringing our country down. Yes,

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, reparations are tied to people

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Speaker 1: who are descendants of enslaved people, and that means they're usual.

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Speaker 1: And that was probably that was the only word I

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Speaker 1: could come up with where people thought that they deserved something, uh,

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Speaker 1: something maybe that they didn't uh. And so it was

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Speaker 1: probably a wrong word to use, but I was trying

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Speaker 1: to get it to the point where I talked. I

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Speaker 1: talked as a as as somebody that that uh speaks

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Speaker 1: for a team, speaks for a group that's trying to survive.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's got to do it the same. One or two

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Speaker 1: people can't do it different to make it easier for them.

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Speaker 1: And that's what's happening in our country right now, and

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Speaker 1: has I do with black or white or this. Americans

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Speaker 1: are doing things different to make it easier on themselves

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Speaker 1: when it comes to this crime. And so uh again,

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Speaker 1: I've always spoken from a team perspective as I do

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Speaker 1: here on the Senate floor when I'm doing things trying

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Speaker 1: to get things done for my state of Alabama and

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Speaker 1: for all Americans. So uh, you're you're talking to to

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Speaker 1: the least guy that ever thought about anything that that

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Speaker 1: would tear down any certain group of people. Uh, because uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I know how already is. And again I've

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Speaker 1: seen all types of people that that have worked and

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Speaker 1: struggled all their lives to make ends meet, and they

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Speaker 1: just keep beating get beaten down. But uh, that being

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Speaker 1: said for everybody, Uh you know, it's that that had

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with any group of people. Well, Senator,

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Speaker 1: if you get to the Senate floor, put a shout

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Speaker 1: out for the Detroit Lions. We're seven and seven now,

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Speaker 1: we we got we're in the hunt for the playoffs.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe it. That's that's how excited I am. Well,

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Speaker 1: my cowboys got beat yesterday that should have beat. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I tell you what the one thing about

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Speaker 1: pro football is and and I've told people this, you

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Speaker 1: never know prof because everybody's got good players. It's not lacking.

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Speaker 1: College football, sometimes you'll have a have an upset or whatever,

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Speaker 1: but in profitball you better take your your lunch with

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Speaker 1: you because everybody has speed, everybody has a good lineman.

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Speaker 1: It's just a small difference there that you know, if

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Speaker 1: you can make a difference of playing in and uh,

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Speaker 1: make a few more plays, you might you can beat

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Speaker 1: that NFL team. So I like them the lines. I

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Speaker 1: think they're coming on strong, and they've got a good

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Speaker 1: coach and and uh, you know, they just got to

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Speaker 1: keep on drafting the way that they've drafted the last

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Speaker 1: couple of years. Well, in the words of the memorable

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Speaker 1: Jack Buck talking about the Patriots Raiders game, I can't

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Speaker 1: believe what I just saw. Had some exciting games this

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Speaker 1: season before that one was like wow. So let's talk

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Speaker 1: about that anyway. That senator, you've been very kind to

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Speaker 1: talk with us, and we appreciate you're very busy man,

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Speaker 1: but you took time to talk with us. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports, sir,

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Speaker 1: thank you, have a great Christmas. Thank you very much,

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Speaker 1: Thank you you too. This is the Bloomberg Business of

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Speaker 1: Sports podcast. I'm Michael Barr, along with Scarlet Fou and

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Speaker 1: Damien Sasaur catches here each and every Monday, Wednesday and

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Speaker 1: Thursday exploring the world of money in sports. And catch

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Speaker 1: me on Twitter at Big Barrow Sports and I'm on

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Speaker 1: Twitter at Scarlett Fou and I'm on Twitter at SS hour.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio

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Speaker 1: around the world.