Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone,
Speaker 1: welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
Speaker 1: the choices we make and where they lead us. My
Speaker 1: guest today is a two time Emmy Award winning television
Speaker 1: host and executive producer of her syndicated talk show that
Speaker 1: is now in its sixth season Wooo. She's a veteran
Speaker 1: journalist and best selling author, and she's got a new
Speaker 1: book out that I just love the message of. I
Speaker 1: can't wait to talk about it. Please welcome Tameron Hall
Speaker 1: to the podcast.
Speaker 2: Hi, so good to see you.
Speaker 1: It's so good to see you. Oh my gosh. I
Speaker 1: had the best time on your show.
Speaker 2: It was like a week ago.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for dedicating a
Speaker 1: whole episode to the idea of I Choose Me.
Speaker 2: What. I was so tickled, tickled love you know what,
Speaker 2: because I think it's such a great. First of all,
Speaker 2: I didn't know the exact episode. Kudos to my team
Speaker 2: for finding the episode, but I think it is. It
Speaker 2: transcends age race, It transcends where you are in your
Speaker 2: life because at some point that question of choosing me
Speaker 2: and what does that feel like? I just thought it
Speaker 2: was so perfect, So thank you. It was. It was wonderful.
Speaker 2: Thank you for mine. You get a producer's credit, Oh,
Speaker 2: thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I'll take it. But since we talked so much about
Speaker 1: me last time on your show, today, I choose to
Speaker 1: talk about you, Tameron Hall, than thank you. Can you
Speaker 1: take me back to the beginning. I want to know
Speaker 1: what you were like when you were a little girl,
Speaker 1: and what kind of home you grew up in. These
Speaker 1: are the things that I'm curious about.
Speaker 2: Oh well, you know, I think my mother would describe
Speaker 2: me as a very interesting child, especially because he was
Speaker 2: a single, nineteen year old mother of one. My mom
Speaker 2: was in college when she got pregnant, and she's from
Speaker 2: a very very small town called Luling, Texas. It's a
Speaker 2: hill country right outside of Austin. We got the best
Speaker 2: rivers and the best barbecue were the best test and
Speaker 2: she came home, I would imagine, and we had not
Speaker 2: talked a lot about it, but I'm sure that you know,
Speaker 2: you're nineteen and you come home and you're pregnant. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of stigma attached to that. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of shame. My mother's mother passed away when she was
Speaker 2: ten and so my mom was ten years all the time.
Speaker 2: So her primary parent was her father, like this giant
Speaker 2: of a person in our lives, but was shouldering a lot,
Speaker 2: you know, raising any little girl by himself and her sisters.
Speaker 2: And you know, she comes home from college and she's pregnant,
Speaker 2: and the relationship with my biological father was not one
Speaker 2: that was a stable one for her. And my grandfather,
Speaker 2: who's a very was a very strong person, said you
Speaker 2: know what, we're gonna raise her here and we're gonna,
Speaker 2: you know, give her the best life possible and was
Speaker 2: very supportive. I was the only child born in the
Speaker 2: hospital in the entire town that day. Oh, I know.
Speaker 2: My mother talks about the friends of hers who they
Speaker 2: all kind of lined up to go to see. Like
Speaker 2: I make the joke, and it's true. My mother's name
Speaker 2: happens to be Mary. They did not name me Jesus
Speaker 2: for their arrival, had all the three wise men's coming,
Speaker 2: and my mom talks about everyone showing up uh to
Speaker 2: see me as a kid. So I uh was born
Speaker 2: in this circumstance that could have been one of great
Speaker 2: shame for her, and I'm sure she debated it, but
Speaker 2: it turned into one where instantly she had this great
Speaker 2: support system of people around her, including her father, and
Speaker 2: I was the beneficiary of that. And at some point
Speaker 2: my mother decided that she wanted something bigger than this
Speaker 2: small town life that she was living. And it wasn't
Speaker 2: a negative, but like so many of us choosing themselves,
Speaker 2: she chose herself. And by choosing herself, she gave me
Speaker 2: the best opportunity she felt, which was leaving our small town.
Speaker 2: And so I grew up with my mom and a
Speaker 2: great group of aunts and uncles. You know, my mother
Speaker 2: would work a couple of jobs because she went back
Speaker 2: to school to get her degree, and she work a
Speaker 2: couple of jobs to support me, and this aunt would
Speaker 2: pick me up on Wednesdays, this uncle would take us fishing,
Speaker 2: and you know, so it.
Speaker 1: Was just this It's really cool.
Speaker 2: It was very, very very cool childhood. In the process,
Speaker 2: my mother says that she noticed that, you know, I
Speaker 2: was out going around my family members, but very different
Speaker 2: out in the world. I was a lot shyer kid.
Speaker 2: I was an only child, and so all of the
Speaker 2: kids in my neighborhood had siblings, so I was a target.
Speaker 2: You know, just how kids work, right, you know, you're
Speaker 2: gonna they're gonna find your weakness. And my weakness was
Speaker 2: I was the only child, and so now I'm up
Speaker 2: against big groups of siblings and you know, and all
Speaker 2: these things. And so my mom got me in sports.
Speaker 2: I ran track, you know. I I played volleyball. I
Speaker 2: did all these things as my mom was trying to
Speaker 2: build my confidence. I played the clarinet. You know you
Speaker 2: name it.
Speaker 1: She's hey, hey, I played the clarinet.
Speaker 2: What chair were you? I was chair one man?
Speaker 1: Hello, right here.
Speaker 2: It was okay, let's stay on the road, Cardigian, let
Speaker 2: me get Carnigie.
Speaker 1: My favorite part of playing the clarinet was the read.
Speaker 1: You had to soak the read. I thought I was
Speaker 1: so cool soak the read.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's smell. So that's the best. My mom
Speaker 2: was always putting me in things for the very thing
Speaker 2: that just happened, Like putting me in music was a
Speaker 2: connecting force. So the reason and that my mom put
Speaker 2: me in band was for the same reason. We just connected.
Speaker 2: Because music is a connecting thing, you know, it brings
Speaker 2: me together. So she thought, I guess it'd make me
Speaker 2: a popular kid or get some friends. She was right, Well,
Speaker 2: she was right I'm friends with you. Now we're going
Speaker 2: to go to my mom. But she kept trying to
Speaker 2: bring this personality out that I showed with my cousins,
Speaker 2: and I was always really good around adults. Was in
Speaker 2: fact my nickname was not necessarily because I was very precocious.
Speaker 2: You know, my cousins. When there was a dispute, I
Speaker 2: was like the lawyer. I'm like, hey, look at let's
Speaker 2: hear the side. My grandfather had a soft spot for
Speaker 2: me because of what happened with my mom, and so
Speaker 2: if there was something they wanted, they'd like, send me in.
Speaker 2: I'm like the I'm the un I'm going in making
Speaker 2: deals for them. They want candy, you know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2: Very confident around adults, very very safe around my families.
Speaker 2: But in the world behaviorally, I showed up different, and
Speaker 2: so my mother really made sure that I had this
Speaker 2: community of support. She really wanted to always make sure
Speaker 2: that I could show up as this confident kid, and
Speaker 2: that's really the start of what I do now for
Speaker 2: a living. We would do little talent shows I couldn't sing,
Speaker 2: I couldn't dance, and birthday parties. You know, they do
Speaker 2: like this little in the South, they have talent shows.
Speaker 2: Every birthday has a talent show. Like here in New York,
Speaker 2: every birthday ends with a pizza, you know. When I'm
Speaker 2: in the South, we have these big birthday parties in
Speaker 2: the backyard or at a park or at a zoo,
Speaker 2: and then inevitably someone's like, let's do a talent show.
Speaker 2: I couldn't sing a dance, but I was a talker,
Speaker 2: and so I would be like the MC you know,
Speaker 2: I'd get up and say, next up, it's Jenny and
Speaker 2: the Jeanettes hit it. You know, Oh my gosh, person
Speaker 2: in the middle facilitating all of the talent that was
Speaker 2: around me again, hint, hint, kind of what I do now.
Speaker 2: And that was, you know, the road and I started
Speaker 2: out on and I was very fortunate that around the
Speaker 2: age of nine, my mother fell in love with the
Speaker 2: person who was the data got meant for me to
Speaker 2: have my stepfather and who I referred to as my father.
Speaker 2: And he is that and was that until the day
Speaker 2: he left this planet. And he too, going back to
Speaker 2: the mantra of choosing you, and I was, I don't know,
Speaker 2: messing up in high school. And I remember because in
Speaker 2: middle school and not doing what I was supposed to.
Speaker 2: And he pointed to the TV and he said, if
Speaker 2: you get your grades it was great, that could be you.
Speaker 2: And he pointed at this woman. She was anchoring the news.
Speaker 2: Her name was Iola Johnson and she was the first
Speaker 2: black woman to anchor the news in Dallas for worth
Speaker 2: and he said, if you get your grades up, that
Speaker 2: could be you. And I look up and I see
Speaker 2: this woman and I'm like, what is this you're speaking of?
Speaker 2: And I love a good challenge. And I then started
Speaker 2: getting into writing classes. I got in, like there's a
Speaker 2: group called the Jas and they did this scholarship thing,
Speaker 2: and I, you know, started writing and applying and just
Speaker 2: kind of doing these things to prove that woman on
Speaker 2: the TV could be me. Wow.
Speaker 1: So it seems like that sort of sparked that interest
Speaker 1: in you of storytelling.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I think it was the storytelling and the
Speaker 2: idea that someone thought enough of me to issue this challenge.
Speaker 2: I think sometimes when people issue a challenge, particularly to
Speaker 2: our children, it can be seen as a negative. But
Speaker 2: I think that people issue a challenge to you because
Speaker 2: they believe you can do it, and they want you
Speaker 2: to say sounds something big or something that you can accomplish.
Speaker 2: That's why you know my son right now, he's five
Speaker 2: and we have this badge system my husband found on Amazon,
Speaker 2: and it's so complicated. I let them deal with it.
Speaker 2: But it's like, if you do this, you get the badge,
Speaker 2: and then if you do this, give back, and then
Speaker 2: if you get five badges, you get a rivet and
Speaker 2: if you get a ribn you can catch. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: my head's spinning, but you just do it. I'm like, dude,
Speaker 2: she's give them pizza party. But it works because my
Speaker 2: son's like the other day, he walks like, because Dad,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get that badge today, and I'm like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, okay, so cute. But yeah, he cashes in
Speaker 2: his badges and so often the cash in is a ribbon,
Speaker 2: and then he takes the ribbon and then he goes
Speaker 2: to he likes bowling, and so we're taken bowling or
Speaker 2: pizza party, but boler, oh, this is the bowler, which
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, we'll figure that one out. But
Speaker 2: you know, it's again that idea of giving someone a
Speaker 2: goal and saying without saying I think you are capable
Speaker 2: and of reaching that, and that's what he did I.
Speaker 1: Mean, that's the exact opposite of what a lot of
Speaker 1: people here, which is you could never beat that right.
Speaker 2: And you know, and that's the thing. When I wrote
Speaker 2: my children's book, Harlem Honey, you know, we have adjusted,
Speaker 2: For example, the way we talked to kids about crying. Right,
Speaker 2: there was a time people would say, big boys don't cry,
Speaker 2: or you know, you want to get a right away
Speaker 2: those tears in some of the language that we all
Speaker 2: grew up hearing. Right, you say to a kid that's crying,
Speaker 2: are your tears? There's nothing wrong. Big kids don't cry,
Speaker 2: Big boys cry. And when I wrote Harlem Honey, it
Speaker 2: was centered around fear. Right, how do we change the
Speaker 2: way we talk about fear? We all experience it, we
Speaker 2: all deal with it different levels, of course, but it's
Speaker 2: an emotion that is not one that should be tied
Speaker 2: to shame. And when I was creating this book, much
Speaker 2: to your point about how we position things now, right,
Speaker 2: my father positioned this challenge in this positive way that
Speaker 2: inspired positivity. It's the same with emotions. You know, when
Speaker 2: I had my son, and I'm sure you've experienced this.
Speaker 2: Now we're obsessed over like ABC's I Love, I got
Speaker 2: all the books of the ABC's and the color of shape.
Speaker 2: And then very early on someone said, you know, social
Speaker 2: emotional development is more important at this age how to count?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, what, because I went to pre K
Speaker 2: and I vividly to this stage and I'm fifty four.
Speaker 2: I remember the blow up let in my Catholic school kindergarten.
Speaker 2: I guess it was. There was mister M with a
Speaker 2: munching mouth. I'll never forget that's him. Oh yeah, fifteen
Speaker 2: years later, I remember mister M with a munching mouth.
Speaker 2: And that was the focus. Right, this is nineteen seventy
Speaker 2: at the time, seventy five, and focus is getting you,
Speaker 2: you know, reading and academics and the testing that was
Speaker 2: such a big part of our culture and still is.
Speaker 2: But it was everything determines everything about you. And then
Speaker 2: suddenly our eyes awaken through probably some painful situations that
Speaker 2: we all witnessed and watched over society where kids are
Speaker 2: bottling themselves or are pushing themselves down and bottling up
Speaker 2: emotions and not being able to express how you feel
Speaker 2: is detrimental to your mental health, it's detrimental to the
Speaker 2: adult you have the capacity to become. And so for me.
Speaker 2: That's been such a big part of my focus and
Speaker 2: why I said, you know what, how do we talk
Speaker 2: about as my father so wonderfully learned to talk about
Speaker 2: goals with me.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about your children's book more because
Speaker 1: I read it and it's really cute and it gave
Speaker 1: me all just good feelings. So I commend you for it.
Speaker 1: But I want to go off of what you were
Speaker 1: just talking about about how your father helped you. I
Speaker 1: know you've talked about this before. You suffered a grave
Speaker 1: tragedy in your life and it's just hard to think
Speaker 1: of getting past that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I listen and thank you for asking about it.
Speaker 2: By the way, and just as we talked about on
Speaker 2: my show, Challenging Things, I was the first to tell you.
Speaker 2: I said, I don't technically like talking about x's because
Speaker 2: you're in your future. And I liken it too. When
Speaker 2: you go to dinner someone suddenly start your current person
Speaker 2: is there and they're like, oh, did you ever run
Speaker 2: in a Jimmy? It's like what you know? And so
Speaker 2: we were on the show. You were so gracious and
Speaker 2: so wonderful in the way you talked about the evolution
Speaker 2: of relationships and it's part in your life. As with
Speaker 2: this conversation we are having, I feel so safe and
Speaker 2: cared for by you, and I want to thank you
Speaker 2: for that, because for people who were listening, what we're
Speaker 2: talking about is the death of my sister. As I mentioned,
Speaker 2: my stepfather became the dad I was meant to have,
Speaker 2: and he had two children. My mother had two children,
Speaker 2: and we really became like a Black Brady bunch and
Speaker 2: was lended family. And because he was very adamant about
Speaker 2: not seeing us as half or step or we were
Speaker 2: a family. This is my sister and my sister, which
Speaker 2: I'd always longed to have, right, I wanted a sister
Speaker 2: just because I visualize us, like you know, doing girl stuff,
Speaker 2: doing her hair and everything. And when I met her,
Speaker 2: she was like the most beautiful and chic and just
Speaker 2: seemed worldly, right, just you know, just was awesome, Like
Speaker 2: she just had the right outfits on it. I remember
Speaker 2: she was the first person she had a bottle of
Speaker 2: perfume and it was a necklace and I just I know,
Speaker 2: she was just like chic. At the same time, she
Speaker 2: was a person who I would hear my father say, God,
Speaker 2: you are better than this guy, or you should not
Speaker 2: be in this relationship with this person. And I would
Speaker 2: hear these conversations, was in my teen years, but it
Speaker 2: was always this push pull with them, and that pushful
Speaker 2: often surrounded the people she was keeping company with romantically,
Speaker 2: and she would move in with us and move out,
Speaker 2: then move out, and was always this tumult, you know,
Speaker 2: around her relationships. And as we got old her, you know,
Speaker 2: she would say, you know, Dad doesn't understand, and you know,
Speaker 2: I'd love this person or that. And I was old
Speaker 2: enough by then high school to recognize, like, these guys
Speaker 2: are coming over and got these are not. I'm eighteen
Speaker 2: by now I'm dating, and I can right on here.
Speaker 2: It's not just Dad being dad, right, I could tell.
Speaker 2: And as the years would pass, she'd come back into
Speaker 2: our lives and disappear out of our lives. And at
Speaker 2: some point she starts to get stable in her life
Speaker 2: and she is in a relationship with someone and he
Speaker 2: starts to come by our home, and you know, things
Speaker 2: start to feel good finally in her life. You know,
Speaker 2: she's bought a house and things are going great, and
Speaker 2: I invited her to come to see me in Chicago.
Speaker 2: By then, I'll figure I'm the big sister who is
Speaker 2: a big deal. Now I'm the big little sister. I'm
Speaker 2: an anchor in Chicago. Come and see me, you know.
Speaker 2: I got a townhouse downtown near Horp. Yes. She comes
Speaker 2: with me, and she brings the person she was seeing
Speaker 2: in her life at the time. And I don't know
Speaker 2: Jenny what day it was of their visit, but I'm
Speaker 2: in my townhouse and I hear this, like just a
Speaker 2: rumble of just sound and energy and something crashing. Now,
Speaker 2: what's going on? And I run down to my bottom level,
Speaker 2: which was a guest bedroom, and there was a table
Speaker 2: that was shattered, and she was standing there and she's
Speaker 2: kind of like clearly dazed. And he's standing there and
Speaker 2: I know there was an altercation and I can see it,
Speaker 2: and I instantly started yelling at him, like what get
Speaker 2: out of my house, and I'm trying to grab the phone.
Speaker 2: I had a phone downstairs, and there was a like
Speaker 2: a my garage was nearby, so there was a broom
Speaker 2: handle thing that was there, and I grabbed this room
Speaker 2: and I'm like get out, and I'm like not hitting,
Speaker 2: but I'm threatening, you know, to get out because I
Speaker 2: get out right now. And I kick them out of
Speaker 2: our house, my house. I call my d instantly, I
Speaker 2: just like, lock the doors, call the police. And I
Speaker 2: go to call the police, and I said, oh, I can't.
Speaker 2: I'm tammern hall. The police are going to come to
Speaker 2: my house and they're going to know that it be
Speaker 2: all over the news. I's going to be all over
Speaker 2: the news and what I can't So I don't call
Speaker 2: the police. I you know, bat patch her, you know,
Speaker 2: get her ice, and we clean up and we don't
Speaker 2: really I don't really ask what happens because I don't
Speaker 2: need to know because I can see. And then we
Speaker 2: go to bed. The next morning, I come downstairs, he's
Speaker 2: in my house. He's back in the house, and I'm
Speaker 2: like what. And I said to her, what are you
Speaker 2: thinking that I kick them both out? She's visiting. They're visiting,
Speaker 2: and I said, get out. I'm going I remember, I
Speaker 2: said there was a spa like I'm going and get
Speaker 2: and when I come back, you get to get out
Speaker 2: of my house. This whole thing. Call my dad. She's
Speaker 2: so selfish, she doesn't why you know, blah blah blah
Speaker 2: blah blah. I'm going off about it. And my Dad's like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, she'll figure it out. And I'm like, Dad,
Speaker 2: she's not going to figure out. Because I was hurt.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what what are you thinking? And I was
Speaker 2: also mad at her for not believing more in herself.
Speaker 2: What I'm thinking, like, yeah, it's so hard, so amazing.
Speaker 2: What is wrong with you? You know? This is me
Speaker 2: at that time. We don't talk for a couple of months.
Speaker 2: The holidays rolls around Thanksgiving and my father said, you know,
Speaker 2: listen enough of this. You know we're not figured out.
Speaker 2: So I called her and she was getting her nails done,
Speaker 2: much like us with the clarinet. It was her common thread.
Speaker 2: She's like, hey, manicure and I was like okay, and
Speaker 2: we just start talking. And then we come home for
Speaker 2: the holidays and she's still with this person and he's
Speaker 2: there and I don't say anything to him. Really, he
Speaker 2: hadn't say anything to me. We go on about our way.
Speaker 2: Fast forward, not very long from that time, my mother
Speaker 2: calls me on a Sunday and she's like just crying
Speaker 2: and wailing and she said, Ranata is dead. And I'm
Speaker 2: like what and she said, call your father, and I'm
Speaker 2: my mom, pull over. I call my dad and my
Speaker 2: dad always said that, you know, from his point of view,
Speaker 2: he always called me his kid of right, like he
Speaker 2: always says, of all my siblings, I was going to
Speaker 2: try to be the level headed one, he said to me,
Speaker 2: very calmly, because my dad was in the military and
Speaker 2: he's got two purple hearts and he's seen it all.
Speaker 2: And he said, baby, call and see what's going on.
Speaker 2: What happened there? I said, okay, And I called my
Speaker 2: sister's house and the person was there and he said,
Speaker 2: the police are there. And I said, the police are there.
Speaker 2: He said, she was found in her pool, face down
Speaker 2: and they don't know what happened. And I think, you know,
Speaker 2: she was drinking maybe and she did you know all this,
Speaker 2: you know, had a local news friend. And I called
Speaker 2: a friend and I said, what's going on and he said, well,
Speaker 2: the police are there and they believe it's not an accident,
Speaker 2: and so I was like, okay, And you know, we
Speaker 2: started the process and the investigators at the time told
Speaker 2: us that that they did not have enough evidence to
Speaker 2: charge someone or got to get the DA to charge someone,
Speaker 2: but they believed that strongly that the individual who was
Speaker 2: in the home was the person responsible. She had blunt
Speaker 2: forced impact to the back of her head, and there
Speaker 2: were other signs there that this was not an accident.
Speaker 2: Her dog, who she affects a mini me because she
Speaker 2: had this like blonde hair and her dog was kind
Speaker 2: of blonde, was there, and you know, some of the
Speaker 2: details I you know, don't need to get into, but
Speaker 2: it was a violent and so yeah, we proceeded on
Speaker 2: and in the process I never talked about it Jenny ever.
Speaker 2: My family. We kind of just you know, forbid him
Speaker 2: from having contact with my family. We kind of moved forward.
Speaker 2: We laid my sister to rest, and then I'm in
Speaker 2: New York. It's two thousand and eight and I was
Speaker 2: invited to speak at an event, a random event. I'd
Speaker 2: just gotten here and I was at the Today Show
Speaker 2: and at the time, they will invite you to host things,
Speaker 2: you know, people were like, oh, Jenny, can you host this?
Speaker 2: You know, I got an invitation. I host an organization
Speaker 2: that helps young people understand how to love healthy, and
Speaker 2: then I shared my sister's story and that that was
Speaker 2: the start of me becoming an advocate for survivors of
Speaker 2: domestic violence and speaking more about from the lands of
Speaker 2: a family member of how to support without judgment because
Speaker 2: at the time I judged, and now I have the
Speaker 2: tools and the understanding that I try to offer to
Speaker 2: other people through your tragedy.
Speaker 1: You're helping other people. That's beautiful. I just how do
Speaker 1: you find closure when there is none? Because that's her
Speaker 1: case was never solved, you know.
Speaker 2: For me, I think, well, my father hassoke in the
Speaker 2: heart of for so long trying to help her. My
Speaker 2: sister battled substance abuse in her past. She was not
Speaker 2: in that state when she was killed, but her younger years.
Speaker 2: So we always worried about, you know, this notion that
Speaker 2: people will blame a victim, and I think that's also
Speaker 2: part of why we stayed silent. Nobody deserves that fate,
Speaker 2: and certainly no one deserves as a victim to have
Speaker 2: everything about you dragged into a space of judgment when
Speaker 2: you are not there to defend yourself. So I think
Speaker 2: for us, because the investigators were so clear and we
Speaker 2: understood what happened, I think our view of justice changed.
Speaker 2: I think what we saw was a just thing for
Speaker 2: us was to help other people, you know, hunting someone
Speaker 2: down or I've never even done a show on it.
Speaker 2: To be honest with you, because it's just not that space.
Speaker 2: We've done shows on domestic violence and my sister's youngest
Speaker 2: son came on the show, because we are committed to
Speaker 2: helping families, but we've never approached it from this lens
Speaker 2: of Okay, this is a who done it because from
Speaker 2: the point of view of the investigators, they felt they
Speaker 2: knew and that was enough for us.
Speaker 1: Is that when you started your interest in writing the
Speaker 1: novels that you've written the crime novels?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, you know, because I was a journalist for
Speaker 2: thirty years, and yes you are, Oh gosh. The first
Speaker 2: part of my career was I was a reporter on
Speaker 2: the street, I mean with Brian College Day, Chicago, Philadelphia, Dallas,
Speaker 2: Fort Worth. The novel that I wrote, the Jordan Manning series,
Speaker 2: honestly was inspired by my years of being a crime reporter,
Speaker 2: not related to my personal family search situation. It was
Speaker 2: just I felt like people didn't really know what happens
Speaker 2: when you're a crime reporter. And then I thought I
Speaker 2: wanted her to be this colorful character. I grew up
Speaker 2: loving Nancy Drew novels. That was my whole bed. It
Speaker 2: was like it was if you didn't find oriole cookies.
Speaker 2: You found Nancy the Future, and so I thought it
Speaker 2: would be fun to have this female protagonist that was
Speaker 2: a crime solving journalist. And I thought that it would
Speaker 2: you know, I wanted a little mix of sex in
Speaker 2: the city and waiting to extale. I just wanted her
Speaker 2: to be this fun but intense person that you want
Speaker 2: on your side, like a blood howling, right, And so
Speaker 2: that came and I wrote those Jenny in the Pandemic.
Speaker 2: By the you know, the second or third time, I
Speaker 2: was going to just leave my h for not breaking
Speaker 2: down the Amazon boxes. You know, we're all dug in
Speaker 2: and I'm like, okay, buddy, one more Amazon box and
Speaker 2: not opening. You're out of here. Let me, harness, listen
Speaker 2: to something more positive. So I started to write the
Speaker 2: Jordan Manning crime series. I was I fell asleep watching
Speaker 2: ESPN or he fell asleep and the next thing, and
Speaker 2: I was like, Michael Jordan Peigon Manny. Her name Jordan Manning.
Speaker 2: There it is, you know, And so I love that.
Speaker 2: I would go out on this little deck that we
Speaker 2: have in sag harber and Online Island and I just
Speaker 2: write and I get up with my coffee. I felt
Speaker 2: very Stephen King it's like old and I had my
Speaker 2: little writer's costume and my coffee and evergrease. Meanwhile, because
Speaker 2: we couldn't do anything else, we were stuck. And so
Speaker 2: I wrote that series and then my cookbook. My dad
Speaker 2: loved to cook, my grandfather loved to cook, and I
Speaker 2: happened to be happy to be best friends with a
Speaker 2: James Beard Award winning culinary producer who's a recipe writer.
Speaker 2: And so I know, right, I was like, did I
Speaker 2: pick you? Really? You know? And we became best of friends.
Speaker 2: We're sisters and so proud of our book because that
Speaker 2: cookbook again, it's it's seventy two phenomenal recipes and she's
Speaker 2: the best at recipe writing in the business. But we
Speaker 2: when the publishers looked at the marketplace, we were the
Speaker 2: only cookbook with a white woman and a black woman,
Speaker 2: and the only cookbook with a straight woman or identified
Speaker 2: straight in LGBTQ. And I thought, wow, going back to
Speaker 2: our clarinet story, you know, music is a common thread.
Speaker 2: Food is a common thread. And that was such an
Speaker 2: enjoyable and fun project to do with lish styling. She's
Speaker 2: from Wisconsin, I'm from Texas, and we would joke that
Speaker 2: even now you see the cover of our book with
Speaker 2: the same haircut. So all things really just like what
Speaker 2: you know, like your podcasts and the things you've created.
Speaker 2: We are lucky to have lived long enough to have
Speaker 2: stories and lived long enough to be able to understand
Speaker 2: them and why they are why it's good to share.
Speaker 1: Them, right, Sharing something that that is so important to
Speaker 1: you and you're so passionate about, it's such a no
Speaker 1: brainer to share. So from the mystery novels to the
Speaker 1: cookbook and now a children's book, right, I know you guys,
Speaker 1: you have to pick up this book. It's called Harlem Honey,
Speaker 1: The Adventures of a Curious Kid, and your son is
Speaker 1: the star of the book.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know he's inspired. This little boy happens
Speaker 2: to be named Moses as my son. He's in the
Speaker 2: first grade, and he's just moved from Texas to New York,
Speaker 2: specifically Harlem, and I really wanted to talk about, you know,
Speaker 2: this idea of new places and new faces. I've said,
Speaker 2: when I wrote the Jordan Manning series, it was during
Speaker 2: the pandemic. You know, our lives all shut down. My
Speaker 2: son wasn't one years old yet. Honestly, Jenny, I I
Speaker 2: had my I got pregnant at forty eight. I have
Speaker 2: hosted morning shows for thirty years. I've probably interviewed every
Speaker 2: childbook author on how to raise a kid. But you know,
Speaker 2: until you're on the team, you don't know how to
Speaker 2: play the sport. It's like, so now I'm on the
Speaker 2: team and it's a global pandemic. I didn't even know that.
Speaker 2: You take them off formula to milk if that's your
Speaker 2: choice or whatever. They go. It ends after I'm like,
Speaker 2: wait what. I felt like they stayed on formula for
Speaker 2: like two years and I didn't breastfeed, so I'm really like,
Speaker 2: wait what, And it's a global pandemic and I can't
Speaker 2: get food and I'm like, oh my goodness, the whole
Speaker 2: thing changed. So those are the things that were my focus,
Speaker 2: just the day to day, and then you know, we
Speaker 2: were inside of our home. It really gave me this
Speaker 2: opportunity to be there with my son that I would
Speaker 2: not have had, so first steps, things that I would
Speaker 2: have missed had I been in the studio. I got
Speaker 2: a chance to see firsthand, and we grew so close.
Speaker 2: When things reopen and he was invited to his first
Speaker 2: birthday party, he was hiding in the corner, like this
Speaker 2: guy in the car. He's mister Razzle Dazzle, He's mister
Speaker 2: Talk and he talk. And we get to the birthday party.
Speaker 2: His hands are sweaty, he's next to me. He won't leave,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, okay, but I understand. It's a birthday.
Speaker 2: It's overwhelming. Things happen, but then it happens again and
Speaker 2: again in different circumstances, and then we would come home
Speaker 2: from this scary situation and he'd talk all about it.
Speaker 2: He knew what everyone wore, everything said, the music that
Speaker 2: was played. He was just so I realized that this
Speaker 2: was a kid who was observing but was afraid to
Speaker 2: get in. He wanted it didn't have that, I can
Speaker 2: tell you. I debate whether it was because we were
Speaker 2: inside for a long time or that's his natural personality
Speaker 2: as it was mine. I don't know. But how did
Speaker 2: I How do I address it? What I do became
Speaker 2: the priority, not the what happens right? And so I
Speaker 2: started to talk to other parents who talked about kids
Speaker 2: who present shy or the reality that we all do,
Speaker 2: and that on the other side of fear is often
Speaker 2: something so fun. So this is a book that talks
Speaker 2: about through curiosity and kindness, how you can face your fear.
Speaker 2: The backdrop is half Texas, half Harlem, New York. But
Speaker 2: in truth, the first outside experience all of our children
Speaker 2: have it's not a school, it's the neighborhood. So Harlem
Speaker 2: is his neighborhood, but it's meant to represent whether you
Speaker 2: have a tiny community or you're walking out your door
Speaker 2: to nine O, two, one zero, whatever, it is your
Speaker 2: first exposure outside of the intimacy of your family home
Speaker 2: is your neighborhood. And so we use music, we use food,
Speaker 2: we use kindness and curiosity as this way for adults
Speaker 2: to talk to kids about how you face that fear
Speaker 2: and what fun you can find on the other side.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the through line too is also back to connection.
Speaker 1: What we were talking about before is realizing how you
Speaker 1: are connected to everything around you if you just take
Speaker 1: a look.
Speaker 2: And it's true, and it's a reminder. You know, when
Speaker 2: I was writing this book and even now we still
Speaker 2: read it, my son's going to go on tour with
Speaker 2: me and he's actually preparing for his first school musical.
Speaker 2: I mean, we went from a few years ago a
Speaker 2: kid who would not you know, participate a birthday party.
Speaker 2: He's Orange Crayon number three and the upcoming music. Wow, hey,
Speaker 2: the crayons quit, and oh my gosh, he's ready to sing.
Speaker 2: He's singing Somewhere over the Rainbow and it's so funny.
Speaker 2: We were watching the Oscars and he has no idea
Speaker 2: who Ariana Grande is. And we're at dinner and the
Speaker 2: Oscars are on. He looks up and he's like, what
Speaker 2: is she singing my song? Who is this singing my song?
Speaker 1: I think he thought it was his life and I
Speaker 1: says original Ariana Grande.
Speaker 2: He's like whoo. And then I said, that's the Oscars, Mom,
Speaker 2: what's the Oscars? So after his musical, I'm gonna get
Speaker 2: like a little fake Oscars made for him so I
Speaker 2: can give him his Oscar once he gets done with
Speaker 2: it on at the end of the month. But you know,
Speaker 2: he's now learned that facing his fear can inspire other things, right,
Speaker 2: and so he really was my test subject in this
Speaker 2: and we have there. We still have moments where he says, Mom,
Speaker 2: I don't want to go in. I'm not ready, you know,
Speaker 2: or he'll say that and I'm okay with that. He
Speaker 2: has to be a well he's walked into as you know,
Speaker 2: you are an international star. I host a talk show.
Speaker 2: Our kids aren't part of our world, but they're not
Speaker 2: part of our world, right, And so with him, I
Speaker 2: even debated namely the character after him, because so he's
Speaker 2: very distinct named Moses, right, He's not the original Moses,
Speaker 2: but he is a Moses, and people see him and
Speaker 2: they say Moses, and they're excited because they're excited. For me,
Speaker 2: being a forty eight year old first time mom at
Speaker 2: the time, that can a lot for a kid to
Speaker 2: take in. But in his own daily life, you know,
Speaker 2: we went to uh he asked me to go to
Speaker 2: see Kids Bop Live. He loves Kids Bop he's all
Speaker 2: about and we got tickets and we took him to
Speaker 2: New Jersey and he was absolutely terrified. Like we get
Speaker 2: there and he's like, wait, this is way bigger than
Speaker 2: I expected. This is way different than I expected. And
Speaker 2: he wanted to leave. And my instinct, you know, was like,
Speaker 2: let's get in this car. We're gonna go right back home.
Speaker 2: But I was like, you know, okay, let me breathe,
Speaker 2: because how I react to this is how he acts.
Speaker 2: If I keep pushing get in there. That's going to
Speaker 2: add a resistance, right, So okay, say well whenever you're ready.
Speaker 2: And then the show started. He starts to hear familiar song.
Speaker 2: I see the side look, you know that that wanting
Speaker 2: to be in behavior and physical change. And before I
Speaker 2: know it, he's in the seat, We're dancing, We're having
Speaker 2: a good time. He's you know, the kids pop. They
Speaker 2: vote on which finale song and his finale song for
Speaker 2: you which one he wanted? Didn't get it. I didn't
Speaker 2: get my song. You know, he's invested in it and
Speaker 2: he's having a great time. He's now in basketball and
Speaker 2: he goes on Sundays. I'm so happy the first time
Speaker 2: he went first, Please not the first time, maybe the
Speaker 2: first week. You want no parts. He sat there on
Speaker 2: the side and he looked and didn't want and I said,
Speaker 2: you know, you love Jalen Brunson. You love the Knicks.
Speaker 2: To my dismay, being from Dallas, I want him to
Speaker 2: love the Mavericks, but he loves the Knicks. And then
Speaker 2: this week the class was the last day and this
Speaker 2: this coach is female coach who was there at the beginning,
Speaker 2: came back for their little ceremony or whatever, and she
Speaker 2: pulled my husband over to the side and she said, oh,
Speaker 2: I can't believe look at this kid. Look at him.
Speaker 2: I mean he's like dribbling with right hand left handed.
Speaker 2: He's like having a great time. He needed to have
Speaker 2: that time. The book is also a reminder, I hope
Speaker 2: to adults, really something that I think you have learned
Speaker 2: and are learning every day, how precious patience is with
Speaker 2: ourselves giving ourselves that time, but also our kids. You know,
Speaker 2: how easy is it to say, Okay, we're gonna go
Speaker 2: to dinner, hurry, put your socks onto the Okay, you
Speaker 2: can't get shucks, let me put it on for you.
Speaker 2: It's delaying and putting their socks one put time to
Speaker 2: let me put the thumbs in to pull the sock up,
Speaker 2: and we gotta go, We gotta go. So I'm gonna
Speaker 2: put this on for you. You know. Yeah, we think
Speaker 2: it's helping. But if we can and by the way,
Speaker 2: baking in that time to watch them put their socks on,
Speaker 2: I mean we like danced around the first time we're
Speaker 2: tackling shoe tie. Now, I's like, oh my god, those
Speaker 2: are the exhilarating, beautiful sensations that we deserve too. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean that message is so important and I was
Speaker 1: gonna say that before it. By you having that kind
Speaker 1: of patience and talking about those moments in your real
Speaker 1: life with your son, that will help other people to
Speaker 1: regain some patience, because it's really easy to be impatient.
Speaker 2: Listen, I'm going to work in progress, you know, I am.
Speaker 2: I'm a blank canvas with a little bit of the
Speaker 2: sketch on it because I have to do it for
Speaker 2: myself all the time, you know, and it is we
Speaker 2: know the value of it. We know it is priceless, right, yes,
Speaker 2: but we fall prey to it. You know. Sometimes we'll
Speaker 2: go to a restaurant and my son will you know,
Speaker 2: he's stirring around. Well, we've gone to restaurants for fifty
Speaker 2: years of our lives. The first time this kid has
Speaker 2: walked into this environment, been in this environment. And yes,
Speaker 2: we want them to behave accordingly. We want them to
Speaker 2: be a little perfectly mannered children who go to the
Speaker 2: seat and put their They're just walking into a whole restaurant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is all new for them.
Speaker 2: It's all new for them, you know. Speaking of all.
Speaker 1: New for you, I really want to talk about your
Speaker 1: choice to become a mom at forty eight. Ah, I'm
Speaker 1: really interested in that because I was there rooting for
Speaker 1: you the whole time. And I remember when you got pregnant.
Speaker 1: I remember seeing you pregnant and I had already loved
Speaker 1: you from the Today Show. Yeah, and so I was
Speaker 1: just rooting you on and like it was such a
Speaker 1: big deal. She's pregnant at forty eight.
Speaker 2: You know it was. I'll tell you. If I had
Speaker 2: not lost that job, I don't think I would have
Speaker 2: had my son. It was the first time I've worked
Speaker 2: since I was fourteen. My very first job was Toys
Speaker 2: r us. I still have my first paycheck, you know,
Speaker 2: my little stub because I was like, what the takeout
Speaker 2: stuff was as well? You still have it. That's so
Speaker 2: great years later. I've worked since I was fourteen. I've
Speaker 2: never been fired in my life. I was always a
Speaker 2: high achieving person, you know. Or once my dad gave
Speaker 2: me that challenge, my value became. What I saw is
Speaker 2: my value was work, you know, because you can lose that.
Speaker 2: And even at age eighteen, a dear friend mom gave
Speaker 2: me a book and one of the chapters said, who
Speaker 2: are you if there's no title beneath your name? I'm eighteen.
Speaker 2: That means nothing to me. I don't even think about it.
Speaker 2: Fast forward age four six, old boy. That book A
Speaker 2: Path of Light, that's been sitting on my bedside or
Speaker 2: whatever since I was eighteen, suddenly makes sense now. And
Speaker 2: it was the first time that I said, you know,
Speaker 2: I'll be okay if I am not on a TV show.
Speaker 2: I'll be okay if I'm not a reporter, I'll figure
Speaker 2: this out, you know. And whatever aspirations of, you know,
Speaker 2: being on a national news show, it didn't matter to me.
Speaker 2: I left the show. It was important for me to
Speaker 2: take that stand for myself. I at the time did
Speaker 2: not have a child. I was my backup. So trust me,
Speaker 2: I'm looking at the ATM and the numbers are not numbering.
Speaker 2: But I was going to figure it out, right. I
Speaker 2: was like, you know, I didn't my parents didn't have
Speaker 2: a gold Bars buried somewhere. I was on my own.
Speaker 2: My mother's big contribution was to tell me I could
Speaker 2: move back to my room, and I was like, it's
Speaker 2: not going to happen, but thank you for the offer.
Speaker 2: We're not there yet. We're not there yet, you know.
Speaker 2: And during the time of trying to figure out this
Speaker 2: next act in my life. I got an offer to
Speaker 2: have a show executive produced by Harvey Weinstein. That day
Speaker 2: felt like the best day of my life. Right, Oh
Speaker 2: my gosh, I've gone from being invisible in this workspace
Speaker 2: to speaks this guy, this is the guy that everyone
Speaker 2: told this is the guy, right, and thinking, wow, big
Speaker 2: breaks do happen, wonderful And now I'm kind of back
Speaker 2: into the identity. Right, I'm about to be a talk
Speaker 2: show host out here my title it's back. And then
Speaker 2: one day I got a call that his name was
Speaker 2: being mentioned along the lines of the word someone. The
Speaker 2: person actually said the R word, and I said retirement
Speaker 2: and because I have not, and they said fortunately, no,
Speaker 2: yeah exactly, And I said what now everything is like, oh,
Speaker 2: I had at the time already met my now husband,
Speaker 2: because when I agreed to executive produce the show with
Speaker 2: Harvey Weinstein, there were a lot of like just ebbs
Speaker 2: and flows and just just things that were happening. Now.
Speaker 2: I know he was under investigation, but there were these
Speaker 2: inconsistencies that made me not feel certain. Nothing behaviorally toward me,
Speaker 2: but just like so just weird energy. You know, when
Speaker 2: you're like, this is weird energy around here, and I
Speaker 2: didn't know what it was. And I remember throwing myself
Speaker 2: this hitting party because I was in LA And as
Speaker 2: you know, when you go into business with somebody, reach
Speaker 2: an agreement, they're going to give you X amount of
Speaker 2: dollars to hold exclusive rights to whatever you're doing, so
Speaker 2: it's like a holding fee or whatever. And he was
Speaker 2: slow on that payment, and I'm like, I need my money,
Speaker 2: here's my money. What's going on here? So now I'm
Speaker 2: feeling like, oh, this guy sold me a bill of
Speaker 2: goods and this show's never going to happen, and I'm sad, sad, sad.
Speaker 2: And then I went out to the pool at the
Speaker 2: Sunset Marquee. I was actually supposed to stay at another
Speaker 2: hotel because I told my travelation at the time, I
Speaker 2: want to stay where they are, like, guys, I want
Speaker 2: somewhere with a cute bars. I'm single and I am
Speaker 2: ready to date and you know, move on my life.
Speaker 2: He puts me up at a hotel and everyone there
Speaker 2: is like a twenty year old wrapper, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: because twenty year olds are wrapper, this is not my scene,
Speaker 2: not my scene. So he put me up at Sunset
Speaker 2: Marquee only because he's like, it's a great hotel. I
Speaker 2: was like, all right, fine it because I'd given up
Speaker 2: on dating at that point. Now between the hotel in
Speaker 2: the five minutes, I thought that was the deal breaker
Speaker 2: for you. I'm in the room. I throw myself a
Speaker 2: proper pity party, and then I went to the hotel cool.
Speaker 2: I have, like I put a one piece on, so
Speaker 2: clearly I wasn't trying to bring any kind of a game.
Speaker 2: I was done at that point. I got to the
Speaker 2: school and I looked up and walking toward me is Steven.
Speaker 2: And we'd run into each other many times at different events.
Speaker 2: He you know, he's in the music business, he's a manager,
Speaker 2: he's worked with a lot of people. And he sat
Speaker 2: down and we started talking. And I think because I
Speaker 2: didn't have I just kind of got it to this
Speaker 2: fitt moment with work and all of this, su I
Speaker 2: saw this person and we're just talking and then we
Speaker 2: started arguing over who has the best pizza in New
Speaker 2: York and he's like, I'm a New Yorker, I know.
Speaker 2: And then we agree to go on like a pizza showdown.
Speaker 2: It wasn't nothing elaborate, it was no like it was
Speaker 2: a pizza, and when I was back in New York
Speaker 2: and whole turns out he had a place a few
Speaker 2: blocks from min. I'm like, wait, what, this is interesting,
Speaker 2: and we you know, started to hang out, and a
Speaker 2: couple of weeks later we moved in and okay, I'm
Speaker 2: furious as we were talking. That's why I laught. That's
Speaker 2: why I laughed when you said it on my show
Speaker 2: about you, like all the weeks I was like, wait, oh,
Speaker 2: that's funny. So like, within a few weeks we started
Speaker 2: dating and then going to the point that you asked
Speaker 2: me my husband had no children, and he said he
Speaker 2: always wanted children. He had his own childhood journey that
Speaker 2: was complicated and complex, and he just never thought he
Speaker 2: was going to be a dad or that he had
Speaker 2: the skills to be a dad based on how he
Speaker 2: was raised. And then I said, well, you know, I
Speaker 2: love to look into this, you know, this concept of
Speaker 2: us being parents as we're here now, and I think
Speaker 2: that not having the pressure of the job had allowed
Speaker 2: me to give my body grace. Had I had a
Speaker 2: lot less stress, a lot less just everything. I felt
Speaker 2: a lot less it about myself. To be honest, I've
Speaker 2: never shared that with anybody. But I went through that
Speaker 2: phase of just feeling it was like, this is now.
Speaker 1: It sounds like a real transitional time for you, and
Speaker 1: so much uncertainty. Yeah, but I love that you are
Speaker 1: by the pool and just letting it happen.
Speaker 2: But I'll hang out at an unattractive one piece, yeah,
Speaker 2: and this and then this is what comes to you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And it came to me, it really did. And the
Speaker 2: right person at the right time, under the right circumstances,
Speaker 2: and for me, for me, you know. And we went
Speaker 2: through multiple rounds of IVF, multiple and there were, you know,
Speaker 2: some hard truths. And one day I was driving and
Speaker 2: I saw this sign that talked about adoption and I
Speaker 2: thought that was an the fifth I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is it, This is it. I should you know.
Speaker 2: This is the route. I'm not going to do this anymore.
Speaker 2: This is the route. And I wasn't angry, it wasn't resigned,
Speaker 2: it wasn't like, oh, I'll just stood up. It wasn't that.
Speaker 2: It was like, oh, this is the sign. Like when
Speaker 2: I went to the pool. It wasn't a negative or positive.
Speaker 2: It was a sign. And I got a call that
Speaker 2: things were looking good, and then we taped my pilot
Speaker 2: for the talk show that next morning, and I got
Speaker 2: a call early that morning that we, in fact I
Speaker 2: was pregnant.
Speaker 1: Wow timing, I.
Speaker 2: Still kept that out. It was just crazy. So I'm
Speaker 2: walking out of my pilot.
Speaker 1: I remember your pilot, I remember the first time.
Speaker 2: Pilot, and I am I'm pregnant, and I'm just like wow.
Speaker 2: And you know, we kept a private for thirty two
Speaker 2: weeks because I was a geriatric pregnancy. I didn't know
Speaker 2: what that meant, and also I wasn't on daily TV yet,
Speaker 2: and I wanted to protect my relationship my husband. I
Speaker 2: wanted to protect my sanity. As you know, people will
Speaker 2: you tell someone you're pregnant and you're like, oh boy,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be hard to marry. Oh boy, marriage is hard.
Speaker 2: And I get that sentiment of why people do it.
Speaker 2: We're kind of just trained. It's like a rote thing
Speaker 2: to say. But I am more conscious than ever of
Speaker 2: how I respond to whatever someone is sharing with me, right,
Speaker 2: and I wanted to just enjoy it. And then we
Speaker 2: got a call thirty two weeks in. My team called
Speaker 2: and said, oh, there's a tabloid that's about to say
Speaker 2: you're pregnant. I'm like what And what happened was I
Speaker 2: reserved our maternity room and you have to do it
Speaker 2: under your name and someone had told someone and they
Speaker 2: called our team and it almost made it, almost made
Speaker 2: it almost made it. And it was funny way because
Speaker 2: at the time that baby Shark song was like and
Speaker 2: so I ran, I got this like actually dress I
Speaker 2: had and I and my husband's like, what are we
Speaker 2: gonna do? What are you gonna do? I was like,
Speaker 2: We're gonna do Baby Shark. And then I had the
Speaker 2: book in front of my belly and I was like
Speaker 2: do do do do? Do? Do do? And then I
Speaker 2: removed the book and then it's like a baby and
Speaker 2: then it was like People magazine. You know how it
Speaker 2: goes after that? Yeah, you know. I'm but I think
Speaker 2: fast forward when I look at that. As I said,
Speaker 2: the loss became a win and not with the talk show, right,
Speaker 2: it became a win in love the way I think
Speaker 2: I became a more present friend. I think sometimes my
Speaker 2: conversations were one sided, and I know talk show hosts
Speaker 2: are just born that way to have one sided conversations
Speaker 2: because that much. But I just got a chance to
Speaker 2: catch up with my friends and not talk about work,
Speaker 2: and I know that work is what provides the lives
Speaker 2: that we have. So I'm not like I grew up very,
Speaker 2: very poor, So I'm not going to be that person
Speaker 2: to say moody doesn't matter. But it doesn't. It's not
Speaker 2: the total of happiness or our journeys. I've been both
Speaker 2: sides of the conversation, and it's about perspective of what
Speaker 2: it brings and what you can use it to do
Speaker 2: good and help others. It's a complicated conversation, but it
Speaker 2: is recognized that having that break from work gave me
Speaker 2: love time, It gave me my child in so many ways,
Speaker 2: and it gave me a rebirth, which was the show
Speaker 2: back with the wealth of things I feel to offer
Speaker 2: that I didn't have before.
Speaker 1: In your late forties. I mean, I was just talking
Speaker 1: with EVT Nicole Brown and she just got married for
Speaker 1: the first time.
Speaker 2: Yes, she met Oh wait wait, even their date that
Speaker 2: he took her onto the theater happened right after she
Speaker 2: came on my show. That's last Oh lucky to take responsibility.
Speaker 1: For Yes, you should, you absolutely should, but just like
Speaker 1: talking about how society's timeline and just because you do
Speaker 1: things later in life if it doesn't mean that you
Speaker 1: are less deserving of love or motherhood or anything. I mean,
Speaker 1: how have you felt about your experience with motherhood in
Speaker 1: this chapter of your life? Being you know, an older
Speaker 1: mom like you said you were a geriatric pregnancy, and
Speaker 1: it just.
Speaker 2: Hit me hard. And I'm sorry, I just I think
Speaker 2: it's amazing. I love it. No, I got to tell you,
Speaker 2: wisdom has been an interesting thing for me lately. For
Speaker 2: so long, a lot of young women, not just with
Speaker 2: the pregnancy, but with the career rebirth. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: I look up to you, and I didn't know how
Speaker 2: to accept that. Not that I felt like they were
Speaker 2: saying that I was old. I just never felt wise.
Speaker 2: I never felt like I was like, really me because
Speaker 2: I can't relate. I just like, you know, okay, well thanks,
Speaker 2: I don't know what I did, you know, Or when
Speaker 2: people say you're so courageous and I'm like, well, what
Speaker 2: was I going to do? You know? And so I've
Speaker 2: recently tried to step out of body and understand what
Speaker 2: they see. Oh my gosh, I've been doing the same.
Speaker 2: Oh right, that's where as I'm like, it must be
Speaker 2: our age.
Speaker 1: If I'm about to turn fifty three.
Speaker 2: It's our age because I've like, I got to step
Speaker 2: out of this to understand what they see. Yes, and
Speaker 2: it's not about running away from age. I just still
Speaker 2: see myself as this trying to figure it out, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know. And and so with being a mom, of course,
Speaker 2: I've had some exercise on well, what would I have
Speaker 2: been at twenty seven thirty there? And I can't conceptualize
Speaker 2: it because I just don't can't live in that space.
Speaker 2: But I have been so honored that not just late
Speaker 2: to the party parents as I call us, but like
Speaker 2: women in their thirties talk to me more openly about
Speaker 2: freezing eggs. You know. Dulce Sloan from Daily Show, she
Speaker 2: came on and she talked about like, and we've become
Speaker 2: friends off camera, and she says, you know, freezing her eggs.
Speaker 2: She felt shame because it made her feel like she
Speaker 2: wasn't gonna get it right or whatever. You know. Yah,
Speaker 2: and Ashanti just married Nellie and just had her first
Speaker 2: child at forty three, and she frozen her eggs. When
Speaker 2: they were broken up, She's like, I didn't even know
Speaker 2: he would we were rekindled, but she knew she possibly
Speaker 2: wanted this part, but she felt shame. Right, so much
Speaker 2: shame attached to this, right we are in this. You know.
Speaker 2: I have a girlfriend that I love dearly, and she
Speaker 2: one day said to me with shame, and I could
Speaker 2: hear in her voice, I never want to be a mom,
Speaker 2: she said, Tam, And it's not in me. I haven't
Speaker 2: had any trauma. I had a great mom, I had
Speaker 2: a great day. I just I don't want it, okay,
Speaker 2: And I said, okay, right, you know, And that's so
Speaker 2: there's so much shame was surrounded with you do or
Speaker 2: you don't.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So for me, I have become more aware of womanhood
Speaker 2: and motherhood being two different journeys, and supporting my female
Speaker 2: friends on the womanhood journey and understanding that my motherhood
Speaker 2: journey means something to my other friends. And so I
Speaker 2: guess I'm in that space now. But when I look
Speaker 2: at the parent I am now and I look at
Speaker 2: the age I am now, I think again, it's like
Speaker 2: that book, don't sweat the small stuff. I think I've
Speaker 2: had enough time to know the bull. I don't things
Speaker 2: out frazzle me as much as they used to. I
Speaker 2: do care what people think. We all do to some degree,
Speaker 2: but I have it in greater perspective of it. And
Speaker 2: even you know, when I was writing this book, you know,
Speaker 2: Harlem Honey, really was not me saying, let me just
Speaker 2: put my name on something so I can get a
Speaker 2: check or d d da da dah. Right, thing to
Speaker 2: me means something to me I have. I'll try not
Speaker 2: to cry here. But the two oldest living relatives I
Speaker 2: have are both and they're in their chapters perhaps of goodbye.
Speaker 2: It's an uncle who has been just a champion for
Speaker 2: my mom and me. And it's my aunt who when
Speaker 2: my mom's mom died when she was ten, I was
Speaker 2: much older. She's much older than my mom, and my
Speaker 2: mother tells the story of her bringing her clothes, you know,
Speaker 2: to get ready to go to school in and being
Speaker 2: a big sister but also a mother figure at the
Speaker 2: same time. So it's our patriarch and our matriarch of
Speaker 2: our family. And my mom is down a few days
Speaker 2: from seventy five, and she said, yeah one day, and
Speaker 2: she's very virile. She's go on her cruises and all
Speaker 2: this sudden stuff. But she says to me, it goes
Speaker 2: so fast. I knew her at nineteen. I knew when
Speaker 2: she was a baby who sat out on this adventure
Speaker 2: and this journey with faith and belief that she could
Speaker 2: somehow figure out this better life for her and her kid.
Speaker 2: And I'm the result of that. And so now at
Speaker 2: fifty four, you know, I don't say this to chastise
Speaker 2: the youth or to imply that they don't know or
Speaker 2: you don't know. My nephew's twenty seventy calls for advice
Speaker 2: all the time. He's like my kid. But you know,
Speaker 2: it goes fast. And when you can learn that a
Speaker 2: lot of the crap that people tell you really doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: It is the fills up a lot of headspace.
Speaker 2: Though it fills up the head until it prevents. Creativity
Speaker 2: blocks you from love, sometimes blocks you from loving yourself.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it sometimes blocks you from just living your life.
Speaker 2: And I have an eighteen year old niece who are
Speaker 2: a door and she'll probably see this interview and wag
Speaker 2: her finger at me, but she's, you know, I love
Speaker 2: this kid, and she's not sure what she wants to do,
Speaker 2: you know, And everybody's like you gotta do it, gotta that,
Speaker 2: gotta do this, it's gotta do that, gotta it, and
Speaker 2: it's like set aside your social media, it's just societal
Speaker 2: pressures like to tell you gotta figure all of this
Speaker 2: out by eighteen.
Speaker 1: What it's ludicrous. I feel you because my daughter, my
Speaker 1: youngest daughter, is eighteen, and I feel there's so much pressure.
Speaker 2: It's so unfair. And I know we can point a
Speaker 2: straight line to social media, but even before then, you know,
Speaker 2: people like gotta go to college, gotta get into gotta
Speaker 2: get if you don't, and then if you and then
Speaker 2: you do all that at eighteen, and then by forty
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, now you got a whole another It's
Speaker 2: like we just fill our headspace with this stuff. And
Speaker 2: so being Michelle Obama was on my show one day.
Speaker 2: She was talking about menopause and she said, you know,
Speaker 2: it's a blessing to get that far, you know, right right,
Speaker 2: you know. And so whether it's that change in life
Speaker 2: or the change that allows you to recognize that if
Speaker 2: you can some your headspace with the views of others,
Speaker 2: you will never find your path. That takes time. Because
Speaker 2: age I didn't have twenty said, I thought I did.
Speaker 2: I didn't know anything, and I'm okay that I didn't.
Speaker 2: I'm okay that I did not know how dangerous it
Speaker 2: was to drive one thy five hundred and twenty eight
Speaker 2: miles with a dog and a map by myself. I'm
Speaker 2: okay with not knowing that right deadline crime at the time.
Speaker 2: I don't even like girls stay home, you know. It's
Speaker 2: there's a certain amount of fearlessness that comes with I
Speaker 2: think fearlessness in the twenties springs perspective, I guess for
Speaker 2: me in the fifties.
Speaker 1: I think that's a big part of it. Like we're
Speaker 1: able to step back, like you said, and like kind
Speaker 1: of widen the scope, like really widen and see it
Speaker 1: all and also just really see our journey and have
Speaker 1: such this immense gratitude for the journey that we've been on.
Speaker 1: And I think that just creates such a piece And
Speaker 1: I I mean, we all know that leading with gratitude
Speaker 1: every morning, thinking about what we're grateful for is going
Speaker 1: to set you up for success for the rest of
Speaker 1: the day. But this is just like full circle life,
Speaker 1: coming back to great gratitude.
Speaker 2: I love that, and that's what I try to do.
Speaker 2: You know, before I get out of bed, I literally
Speaker 2: will lie in bed and I want my first thoughts
Speaker 2: to be gratitude. I want the first thing that I
Speaker 2: say in my brain right is something that is positive
Speaker 2: and grateful and an opportunity to start it that way
Speaker 2: versus some negativity about myself. You know, they always say
Speaker 2: you say things to yourself you would never say to
Speaker 2: someone else. You know, I want to start my day.
Speaker 2: It's like, it's you know, the second best thing is
Speaker 2: coffee for me, right, It's like I need that that
Speaker 2: thought of gratitude, and it's and maybe when you're you know, younger,
Speaker 2: you kind of think, Okay, this is what they're saying
Speaker 2: because they've had successful lives or My mother again, was
Speaker 2: a nineteen year old single mother, and I believe she
Speaker 2: got to where she is now and raised the child
Speaker 2: that I am as an adult is because she led
Speaker 2: with gratitude. And that wasn't fame, that wasn't fortune, that
Speaker 2: was doubts. She could have led with shame, she could
Speaker 2: have led with you know, y means, she could have
Speaker 2: led with fear. But she grew up in a town
Speaker 2: where we didn't get a paved street until the eighties.
Speaker 2: You know, she didn't have these things. But she had gratitude.
Speaker 2: So that is not it's not owned by a race,
Speaker 2: it's not owned by a gender. It's not owned by
Speaker 2: one socioeconomic group. It is afforded to us all. And
Speaker 2: I I think the best of the journey is when
Speaker 2: you can fight the noise and lead.
Speaker 1: With that yes so true, before I let you go
Speaker 1: tammeron hall. What was your last I choose me moment?
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a great one. Oh my last I choose
Speaker 2: me moment? Oh it was this morning. So yesterday I
Speaker 2: had a very early morning and I had a very
Speaker 2: intimidating thing that I had to face, and it took
Speaker 2: a lot of I actually that shy kid and me
Speaker 2: showed up yesterday and I had to deal with her
Speaker 2: and do this event that I wasn't prepared for telling me.
Speaker 2: So this morning, when it was time to wake up
Speaker 2: and get my son ready for school, I fought mom
Speaker 2: guilt as if one morning of not getting him ready
Speaker 2: versus his dad was going to somehow change the trajectory
Speaker 2: of his entire life. And I laid in bed and
Speaker 2: I did it. Get up, and I let my husband
Speaker 2: warm the care at my And not that he wouldn't,
Speaker 2: but sometimes even when he's willing to will when he
Speaker 2: does do it, and he does it every morning with me,
Speaker 2: but I feel guilty fight when out there, like if
Speaker 2: I'm not you know, right, give me the kiss, you know.
Speaker 2: And I was like, my kid knows he loves me
Speaker 2: and I love him, and I'm going to stay in
Speaker 2: this bin. Have a good day, kiddo.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's a good one. Just stay in bed.
Speaker 2: I stayed in bed and it was delicious and it
Speaker 2: was great. And now he is home and I can
Speaker 2: hear him and we'll go to taekwondo and then I'm
Speaker 2: going to drop him at taekwondo and then go to
Speaker 2: dinner with my husband. But yeah, yeah I did, because
Speaker 2: he's We fight that, right, We fight the fear of
Speaker 2: this light thing that I do will somehow spell irel
Speaker 2: into my kid having a horrible life. That's just not true.
Speaker 2: And I didn't do it. So I chose that. I
Speaker 2: chose shows me to stay in the bin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you needed to refuel.
Speaker 2: I did. I needed in and it felt great. Well.
Speaker 1: I love talking to you. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: being on the pod, Jem, and I'm always here for
Speaker 1: you if you need a guest.
Speaker 2: Oh, well done. Well if we start practicing, because I'm calling, yes, Paul.
Speaker 2: They've never seen this coming.
Speaker 1: Two first chairs. Come on, have a great anniversary and
Speaker 1: have fun at Taekwondo.
Speaker 2: I love you and thank you for the coming.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: I love you too. Bye.