1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,280 Speaker 1: Guess what, mengo, what's that? Well, all right, so this 2 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: may be a weird question, but did you ever hear 3 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 1: the story about Norway's first skyjacking? So I don't really 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: keep up with the countries first skyjackings. Well this one's 5 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: worth noting because it's it's actually kind of funny. As 6 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: strange as this sounds, but this was long after the 7 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: golden age of skyjackings, and there was this lone wolf 8 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: who hopped onto the plane. He got up to the 9 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: front of the plane that was carrying a hundred and 10 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: sixteen passengers, and he demanded to talk to the Prime 11 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: Minister of Norway and their Minister of Justice. He wanted 12 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 1: to talk to both of these people. They weren't on 13 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,639 Speaker 1: the plane. He just insisted he needed to talk to them. Now. 14 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: He had a gun, and he claimed to have more 15 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: explosives hidden on him, but he didn't really have a plan. 16 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: He just kind of let the plane go on its course. 17 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: But then it lands and he starts negotiating. Of course, 18 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: you know, the guy had been drinking heavily the whole time, 19 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: so he wasn't the world's best negotiator. So first he 20 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: let off seventy passengers or so, you know, just just because. 21 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: And then he said he let the rest of the 22 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: passengers go, if the pilots would just taxi the plane 23 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: on up to the terminal, that's what they're supposed to 24 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: do anyway, I know, but he demanded that they do 25 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: that as well. So then once he drunk through the 26 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: plane supply of beer, he said he'd turn over his 27 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: weapons if he could just get a little bit more 28 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: to drink. You know, he wasn't quite done with this, 29 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: so he wanted another beer too, And then of course 30 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: when the authorities brought him the beverage delivery, they arrested him. 31 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: That is so sad, I mean, like he's like the 32 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: world's worst skyjacker and he didn't even take the plane 33 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 1: somewhere fun or get his message to the government, I know, 34 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't really think he had a message 35 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: other than that he was maybe dissatisfied with his life. 36 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: But it does kind of get into something that we 37 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: want to talk about today. Why were skyjackers so obsessed 38 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: with commandeering planes? And was there a Bonnie and Clyde 39 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: of skyjackers? And why was there a golden age of skyjacking? 40 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: And that's what we're talking about today, So let's dive ina. 41 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 1: Hey there, podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm 42 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good 43 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: friend Mangesha Ticketer. And on the other side of the 44 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: soundproof glass slowly creasing. I think those are our show notes, 45 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: say to these paper planes and throwing. Look at that 46 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: one that was like soaring. Those things are glide. That's 47 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: pretty impressive. That's our friend and producer Tristan McNeil. I 48 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: didn't even realize he had such a good arm. I 49 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: had heard, you know, just from around the office. People 50 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: like to talk about all the things that Tristan can do, 51 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: so I had heard he had an incredible arm. But this, 52 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: this really proves it. It is impressive. All right, Well, 53 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: we'll spend another episode talking about all of Tristan's talents, 54 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: but why don't we dive into this one? So, Mango, 55 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,959 Speaker 1: what was the golden age of skyjacking? So this is 56 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: actually an era I didn't know much about until I've 57 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: read this incredible book. It's called The Skies Belonged to 58 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,839 Speaker 1: Us by Brendan Corner, and most of today's research comes 59 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: out of that book. And of course we've supplemented it 60 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: with stories and facts we've pulled from other sources. But listeners, 61 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: if you're at all interested in this topic, definitely pick 62 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: up Corners book The Skies Belonged to Us because it 63 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: is fascinating. So the Golden Age was basically between nineteen 64 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: seventy two, and this is when security at airports was 65 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: super lax, and over a hundred fifty flights were hijacked 66 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: in the American airspace during that time. Supposedly, at the 67 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: height of the trend, planes were hijacked nearly once and 68 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: sometimes twice a week. Yeah, I mean there were stories 69 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: of pilots who have been hijacked multiple times. It was 70 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: almost routine by that point. And so we're passengers being 71 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: killed during this or what was happening? No, So that's 72 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: the crazy thing, right, Like the hijackers were mostly pretty 73 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: civil and the airlines handled it all very coolly. So 74 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: often a hijacker just wanted to save passage out of 75 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: the country, or wanted money, or to make some sort 76 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: of political statement. And you read the story and you 77 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: can't imagine how many hijackings are just happening one after another. 78 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: It's like people just walked onto planes and decided to 79 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: hijack them on the spot. It's business people, academics, blue 80 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: collar workers, people who were out of work, kids. I mean, 81 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: there are more than a few stories of teenagers doing this, 82 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: and supposedly every time there was press about a new 83 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: type of hijacking like skijacking, a plan for political justice 84 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: then something that would lead to all these copycats. I mean, 85 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: it's truly insane to read these accounts, but from my 86 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: reading of the era, it really does seem like it 87 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: was also more of an innocent time and these hijackers 88 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: weren't really looking to harm or even bothered the passengers. 89 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: I mean, that does sound weird to say, and and 90 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: I know you don't want to downplay the violence, because 91 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: there were definitely some deaths and injuries, but it wasn't 92 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: nearly as many as you'd expect from this time. And 93 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: this this is a little bit off topic, but from 94 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: that same period, I started reading this book called Days 95 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: of Rage, just by Brian Burrow, and it's about Weatherman 96 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: of the nineties seventies, and one of the things that 97 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: struck me was that this bi agent told the author 98 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: that in nineteen seventy two, setting off bombs was actually 99 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: a pretty common way to voice political protests. And it's 100 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 1: baffling how many bombs went off without people getting hurt 101 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: during that time. The agent was saying that they were 102 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: over nineteen hundred bombings that year alone, and in an 103 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: eighteen months span there were actually twenty five hundred bombings. 104 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: Can you imagine that? Twenty hundred bombings, and so sometimes 105 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: they were like five protest bombings in a single day. 106 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 1: I mean, it's really unimaginable, like those sorts of numbers. Then, 107 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: were there a lot of fatalities? No, I mean kind 108 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: of like you were saying with the sky jacking, that's 109 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: that's kind of the thing that really weren't. People tended 110 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 1: to use these small explosives and they target these abandoned buildings, 111 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: and the bombs were treated maybe like a public nuisance. 112 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: And this sounds insane to say this, but they were 113 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: almost treated as a way for a political group to 114 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: drop a press release. You'd have this explosion, they'd get 115 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: some attention, and then they would make their statement. And 116 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,679 Speaker 1: according to Burrows, it was considered almost like the semi 117 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: ex up to its strategy for being heard. It just 118 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: sounds so lawless and I don't ever want to return 119 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: to those times, but you can see how commandeering a 120 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: massive air bus kind of has that same appeal. It 121 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: seems both quaint but also shows how desperate people were 122 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: to be heard. So I do want to get into 123 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: the Golden Age. But your bombing story remind me about 124 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: one of the weirdest things I remember learning in college, 125 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: and it's that Yemen used to be considered one of 126 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: the best places in the world to be kidnapped, Like 127 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: it was really just about holding you until someone forked 128 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: over at ransom. And this was kind of the practice 129 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: even through the nine nineties. So I read this one 130 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 1: account from an American diplomat who was kidnapped there, and 131 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: he said that while the initial shock of being kidnapped 132 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: is of course unnerving, once he was brought to the 133 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: kidnappers lair, they greeted him with this beautiful recited poem 134 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: what And then they fed him well and offered him 135 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: caught to chew, which is, you know, that mild stimulant. 136 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: And there are other accounts of this too, like so 137 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: the Washington Post had interviewed this man who was he 138 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: was giving cigarettes and cookies and teed to keep his 139 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: spirits up, and another person was you know, told to 140 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: teach kids English to stave off his boredom, and allowed visitors, 141 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: and he could go on these walking tours of the 142 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: city and make phone calls home, and he was even 143 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: brought reading materials that he requested. It's crazy. I mean, 144 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: I imagine the tourism board coming up with a slogan 145 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: of like how they're the best place in the world 146 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: to be kidnapped. And I don't want to make light 147 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: of this, but it really is just so bizarre to 148 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: read about this stuff, I know, and it was considered 149 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: pretty normal. And often after a few days when the 150 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: ransom payment had gone through, the kidnapped folks would emerge 151 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: with souvenirs like they take home beautiful curved daggers and 152 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: luxurious robes. That guy who has read that beautiful poem, 153 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: he still has a copee of that poem. It's insane. 154 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: But obviously it's not like that anymore, especially since like 155 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: all Kinda and other extremists have gotten into the act 156 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: now being kidnapped as much more deadly. And you know, 157 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: Yemen's four star kidnapping reviews have certainly gone down. Yeah, 158 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: I mean, it is completely terrifying. But all right, well 159 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: let's bring this back to the Golden age that we 160 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: were talking about before. So just just to set the 161 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: scene a little bit here, this general period was one 162 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: of a lot of political unrest. We're talking about again, 163 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one nineteen seventy two, and there's a lot 164 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: going on, think about you know, the Vietnam War and 165 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: civil rights and hippies and black panthers, and you know, 166 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: the Cold War is going strong, and there's quite a 167 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: bit of political distrust of the establishment during this time. 168 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: And of course you know there have been a few 169 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: skyjackings in other countries as well. Right, that's right, And 170 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 1: hijacking wasn't even the preferred terms, So hijackers were mostly 171 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: called escape ease during this period, partially because hijacking was 172 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: seen as this almost negative term that had been lingering 173 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: from the prohibition era. Yeah, you know, supposedly the term 174 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: came from these highway robberies, you know, when a mobster 175 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: would greet you with a friendly hijack and before of 176 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: course taking your truck and all the alcohol that it 177 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: was guarding. Yeah, but this was a little different since 178 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: they weren't you know, typically mobsters. It was mostly people 179 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: just defecting from communism, and there was an early case 180 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: of three different planes being simultaneously rerouted from Czechoslovakia to 181 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: West Germany, where the defectors were welcomed like heroes. And 182 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: then there was there was almost this like cute story 183 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: where six hijackers took over a plane in Europe. They 184 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: made the pilot fly over Lisbon so they could drop 185 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 1: leaflets from the sky and it was just like print 186 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: outs protesting the government there. And once they had sort 187 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: of distributed all their flyers, they asked to be dropped 188 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: off in Morocco. I mean, it makes it sound so harmless, 189 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: you know, but that people saw planes is their only 190 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: way to flee from their home countries. Is it's really 191 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: interesting to think about, you know, Like during that time, 192 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: there's all this back and forth of people fleeing Cuba 193 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: to come to the States and then people demanding that 194 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 1: planes be rerouted to Havana. Yeah, that stuff is fascinating. 195 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: In fact, the first U s light that was skyjacked 196 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: was by a guy who wanted to be taken to Havana. 197 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: He took a knife into the cockpit and demanded the 198 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: plane go there. But what's Also interesting about the time 199 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: is that you couldn't really take a plane that far. 200 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: What do you mean by that, Well, we're talking about 201 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,319 Speaker 1: the sixties and there's one story will get into the 202 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: later of of a guy who wanted to be taken 203 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: to North Korea, but a plane just wouldn't get you 204 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: that far. So even in the eighties when my family 205 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: would go back to India, the trip would take forever. 206 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: It was a twenty two hour journey. And the reason 207 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: was that from JFK you'd have to make a pit 208 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: stop in Paris or London, and then you fly to 209 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: Cairo to refuel there, and then you go to Delhi 210 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: to refuel, and then you get to Bombay. Like everyone 211 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: on the plane was going from JFK to Bombay and 212 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: it was ludicrous, right, But actually, in Corner's book, a 213 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: lot of the stories are hijackers negotiating as their plane 214 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: is being refueled or then being directed or redirected to 215 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: another airport before they're you know, getting their money in 216 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: parachutes and then they take off for the international journey. 217 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: But part of Havana's appeal was that you could actually 218 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 1: touch ground in a communist nation without having to refuel 219 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: just so strange. Well, you know, I was looking into 220 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 1: the whole Cuba America relations during that time, and it's 221 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: really interesting to see what was happening. So after Castro 222 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: takes over, the Cubans start hijacking planes to land in 223 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: the US. You're mostly Key West or Miami. And you know, 224 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: one of the funny things was that this ad exact name, 225 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 1: Irwin Harris, immediately started claiming these planes. His whole thing 226 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: was that he'd run a super expensive tourism campaign for 227 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: Havana and Castro and the government still owed him close 228 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: to five hundred thousand dollars for his efforts, so kind 229 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: of being a showman, he welcomed them as his own. 230 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: But here's the weirdest part of this. The US government 231 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: actually let him auction off the planes and keep the 232 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: money from this. Castro was obviously peeved that people were 233 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: stealing Cuban planes and fleeing the country, but the fact 234 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: that the US wasn't giving the planes back and instead 235 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: letting Harris auction them off, I mean, that just got 236 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: him angrier. And that was, of course the whole point. 237 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,839 Speaker 1: I mean, that's what the American government wanted to do, 238 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: and so they let Harris sell eleven planes. Eleven planes 239 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: feels insane. But at that time, the U S didn't 240 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: really believe anyone would steal an American plan, right, Yeah, 241 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 1: that's right. I mean they were a little bit cocky 242 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: about it because, you know, as they thought about it, 243 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: like who would want to leave America? And so suddenly 244 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty one, when a hijacker demands that a 245 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: US plane reroute to Cuba, things start to shift a 246 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: little bit. So obviously Cuba becomes a big lure for 247 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: American dissidents, and people think they're going to be welcomed 248 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 1: with open arms, and particularly those who have been disenfranchised. 249 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: Because Castro was telling the world he's building a new 250 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: type of country. Yeah, you know, as one skyjacker put it, 251 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: as he saw the runway lights, quote, in a few hours, 252 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 1: it would be dawn in a new world. I was 253 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: about to enter paradise. Cuba was creating a true democracy, 254 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: a place where everyone was equal, where violence against blacks injustice, 255 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: and racism, where things of the past. I'd come to 256 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: Cuba to feel freedom at least once, you know. But 257 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 1: of course that freedom he longed for wasn't really the case. 258 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: And Castro loved that these flights were coming in because 259 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: it humiliated the US and he got a little bit 260 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: of ransom out of it. I think you charged the 261 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: airlines something like bucks to return each plane. You know 262 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: also that this is funny because the US and Cuba 263 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: didn't interact, but there was actually this quick form to 264 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: make that transaction happen, and they would have to do 265 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: this through the Swiss embassy in Cuba. Just for being 266 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: able to retrieve these planes. It's so strange, that's funny. Well, 267 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: how are the passengers on the planes treated like I 268 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: I know in some cases passengers were let off on 269 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: the first refueling, but uh, I'm guessing that always didn't 270 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: happen in these kidnappings in Cuba. Well, you know, often 271 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 1: the passengers on the planes got a nice night out 272 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: of it, which you know, they'd they'd be put up 273 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: in a fancy Havannah hotel, they'd be given cigars and 274 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: smooth RUMs, the ability to go shopping, and then they 275 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: just be put back on the plane and they'd go home. 276 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: Hijacking was actually happening so often that Time magazine even 277 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: put out a little guide for being skyjacked. And you 278 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: know how to make the most of that experience. It's 279 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: so weird. I was looking at some of the tips 280 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: and they're like one of them was don't ring the 281 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: button for the flight attendant, since that, you know, that 282 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: could startle the hide jacker. So great, but also recommended 283 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: the chorus lines and Dacris and shopping for East German cameras, 284 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: you know, which you could get for a steel in 285 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: Havannah's markets. That's so weird. And what happened to the hijackers, now, 286 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: this is actually a pretty different story. Castro was was 287 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: really full of contempt for these hijackers, so they weren't 288 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: treated like Harris. And why is that. Well, he didn't 289 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: want revolutionaries in his country, is really what it came 290 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: down to. So, you know, when they landed, they were 291 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: taken in for these brutal interrogations. Castro was actually convinced 292 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: that some of these people were spies for the US government. 293 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: You know, depending on what the interrogators thought, their fate 294 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: was made up for them. Some of them ended up 295 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: in sugarcane fields, which was just nightmarish, and you know, 296 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: some people were lashed and beaten and the conditions were 297 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: pretty terrifying. The other option was being sent to a 298 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: place called the Hijackers House. And at one point this building, 299 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: which was just like two stories tall, it had sixty 300 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: hijackers there, but they got a stipend of I think 301 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: it was forty pasos and onth But the living wasn't easy. 302 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: I think each person only got about fifteen or sixteen 303 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: square feet of personal space when they were living there. Honestly, 304 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: I didn't really think about the fact that there would 305 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: be like sixty hijackers stuck in one communist house. It 306 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: kind of sounds like the worst season of the real world. Like, 307 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: but why did people still come to Cuba? I don't know, 308 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: man Go, I've seen some pretty terrible seasons of the 309 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: real world. But to your question, I have read a 310 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: few accounts of this, and you know, even though the 311 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: information about the conditions in Cuba was being covered by 312 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: the press and spreading to the US, people were still 313 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: just kind of hopelessly starry eyed that Castro would see 314 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: their case differently. Actually, let let me just quote Corner here. 315 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: He says, um, every skyjacker was an optimist at heart, 316 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: supremely confident that his story would be the one to 317 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: touch Castro. The twenty eight year old air to a 318 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: New Mexico real estate fortune. He had hijacked the Delta 319 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: Airlines jet while inexplicably dressed as a cowboy. You've got 320 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: so she allo student from Kalamazoo, Michigan who wanted to 321 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: study communism firsthand. You've also got a thirty four year 322 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: old Cuban exile, and he diverted a flight because he 323 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: could no longer bear to live without his mother's delicately 324 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: seasoned free holays. So the list goes on and on. 325 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: It's just crazy. Well, I want to get into what 326 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: the airlines did and why it took them so long 327 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: to fight back. But before that, let's take a quick break. 328 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: So welcome back to Part time Genius, and we're talking 329 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: about the golden age of hijacking. Well, did I ever 330 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: tell you about the time I was in the kind 331 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: of Do airport. I'm not sure. Maybe. So this was 332 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: just before the millennium, and I was done with my 333 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: study of broad program and leaving a few days early 334 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: just to visit my relatives in India. And at the 335 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: front of the airport and come and Do there was 336 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: an X ray machine, but the line for it was insane. 337 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: And you know, I'm curious, so I looked a little closer, 338 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: and for a single machine, there was just so much 339 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: bureaucracy going on around it. Like there was one guy 340 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: who was barking orders, making sure you took all your 341 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 1: belongings and put them on the conveyor belt in the 342 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: right order, and then there was someone else kind of 343 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: rearranging and repacking them as they fed into this X 344 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: ray machine. And then there was a third guy on 345 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: the other side, and he was meticulously putting stickers on 346 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: each bag to show what had gone through the machine. 347 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: But no one was actually looking at the X ray part. 348 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: So did you end up saying anything? I mean, who 349 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,959 Speaker 1: do you tell? Right? Like, I just kind of noticed 350 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: and laughed it off, and that's usually where I cut 351 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: the story off. But this is the scary part. So 352 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 1: someone else must have been noticing too, because two or 353 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: three days later, the same afternoon flight I took from 354 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: Cutman due to DELI on the same airline was actually hijack. Yeah, 355 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 1: it's insane, right, So they took the plane to Afghanistan 356 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: and it was tense. There were people on the tarmac 357 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: For two days. I was glued to the TV because 358 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: I was really afraid I knew someone on the plane. Uh. 359 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 1: This was also a flight that I thought about taking, 360 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: you know, postponing my trip by two days. But thankfully, 361 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: no one on the plane was hurt. And this was 362 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: pre nine eleven, so it was before there were these 363 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: really strict security measures that most of these airports. I 364 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: think when I flew out of Philadelphia that summer earlier 365 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: for my trip, my parents even dropped me off at 366 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 1: the gate before I went. And I'm not sure if 367 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: you remember that, but like people could actually go to 368 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: the gates or receive you there. It's crazy, but it's 369 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: almost hard to remember what security used to look like 370 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: in the eighties or nineties, let alone in the sixties. Yeah, 371 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: that's true. I mean security was definitely lax in the 372 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: sixties and it's pretty fascinating to read about it because 373 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: you know, the responsibility was pretty much on the airlines 374 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 1: to maintain that security. So why is that. Well, they 375 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: didn't want to spend money on the security to stop 376 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: these hijackings. I mean, they're they're big thing was no violence. 377 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 1: And when they did this risk benefit analysis and they 378 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,199 Speaker 1: decided to calculate it out the way they saw it 379 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: was as long as the passengers weren't being harmed, it 380 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: was actually cheaper for the airlines to just comply with 381 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: a hijacker. They'd agree to send him on a joy ride, 382 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:03,959 Speaker 1: maybe give them a little bit of ransom money, and 383 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: just deal with all the canceled flights that happened because 384 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: of this, And that was all seen as preferable rather 385 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: than paying for more security at the airports. And you know, 386 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: you also look at ticket sales at the time, I mean, 387 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 1: they were at an all time high in the airlines 388 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: believe that subjecting people to checking bags and patting them 389 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: down was it was kind of like treating them like criminals. 390 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: And so they didn't want ticket sales to drop from 391 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: any of these measures, so they fought tooth and nail 392 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: against adding any security. In fact, they had a really 393 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: strong lobbying arm just to prevent that from happening. It's 394 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: really weird to think about that airlines weren't actually trying 395 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: to lessen the threat of hijackings. And it's also interesting 396 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: that like skyjacking evolved and how it evolved, Like people 397 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: were stealing planes in the nineteen sixties, and it was 398 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: always to fly to a different country. But the airlines 399 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: were caught off guard the first time someone actually demanded 400 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: a ransom. Why would that be? I guess it just 401 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,199 Speaker 1: didn't occur to them, like they thought that skyjackers were 402 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: a higher class of criminal and just interested in safe passage. 403 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: But changed with this guy named Arthur Gates Barkley in 404 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 1: ninety three. So Barkley was this truck driver who has 405 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 1: let go from his job and had a lot of 406 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: court cases that he'd filed and just wasn't winning any 407 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: of them. One was over a five dollar tax bill 408 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: which he claimed was miscalculated. Anyway, he was disgruntled and 409 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: he petitioned the Supreme Court, who of course didn't want 410 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 1: to hear his case. And he was so angry that 411 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: no one was listening that he decided to hijack a plane. 412 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: So does he take it to Cuba or where does 413 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: he go? No? In fact, the pilots were stunned when 414 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: he sent it only thirty miles off course to Dallas, Virginia. 415 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: He wanted a hundred million dollar ransom from the Supreme 416 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,199 Speaker 1: courts coffers. He was specific about that in exchange for 417 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 1: the safety of the passengers on the plane. And this 418 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: is an insane ask, right, Like, a hundred million dollars 419 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: is a lot of money, and he's clearly desperate and 420 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: not in his right mind, and of course the airline 421 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: is totally unprepared, so instead they bring him a hundred 422 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: thousand dollars, which is a little less than a hundred million. Yeah, 423 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: I mean that's what quick calculation, and I think that's 424 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: a thousand times less than a hundred even a hundred 425 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. I mean that's still a lot of money. Yeah, 426 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 1: But he was pissed. So there's this dance where he 427 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: gets the pilots to take off and then he lands again, 428 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: trying to get his full hundred billion dollars, and this 429 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: time the Feds are ready. They just shoot out the 430 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 1: landing gear and everyone on board escapes out this back 431 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 1: hatch while he's distracted. In fact, this is a great 432 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: story of a photojournalist on board who waits to be 433 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: the last person and he coolly snaps the photo of 434 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: Barkley just angry in a pile of hundred dollar bills 435 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: before he jumps out the hatch, and then the Feds 436 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: come on board to arrest him. But the interesting thing 437 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: is how the hijackers. Spouse responded once Barkley was arrested. 438 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: So instead of feigning ignorance like you'd imagine most wives 439 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: of criminals might, she was almost supportive. Like she was 440 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: filmed in front of boxes and boxes of legal correspondence 441 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: that Barkley had been sending out, and she said kind 442 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: of what we're saying at the top of this show, 443 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: that this was an act of a person who didn't 444 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,199 Speaker 1: have a voice. And as she put it, quote, he 445 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: believes in this country and the constitution. He believes in 446 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: what he was fighting for in World War Two, but 447 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: the government wouldn't even listen to him. He did it 448 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 1: to get someone to pay attention to him. He was 449 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 1: trying to help us, but he made it worse. Yeah, 450 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: and you can sense the desperation there. But yeah, there 451 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: was this genuine public rooting for the outlaw at that time. 452 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: And of course those weren't the only types of criminals. 453 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: You know, there's the dB Cooper hijacking, which also emerged 454 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: in this era. Was the swave gentleman Robbert who hijacked 455 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: a plane and parachuted off with all these bags full 456 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: of money. And of course there's the story of Holder 457 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: and kirk Ow, who I know you want to talk 458 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,239 Speaker 1: about a little bit. You know, there was lots of 459 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: glamor in this crime, but you know, the airlines were 460 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: just absolutely resistant to doing anything to prevent it. In fact, 461 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 1: you know, there's this memo from nineteen sixty eight that 462 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: Eastern Airlines sent out to all employees and it made 463 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: it clear that all attempts at heroism by the pilots 464 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: were totally forbidden, and instead all cockpits were equipped with 465 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: the flight to Cuba charts. You know, regardless of their destination, 466 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: they had to know how to get there. They also 467 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: had these little cars to show them how to communicate 468 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: with the Cuban ground crew in Spanish once they arrived. 469 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: That's so weird, and it's odd that that's the best 470 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: that the airlines of the government, you know, could come 471 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: up with. Well, you know, there were a few ideas 472 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: that cropped up to try to soothe the problem without 473 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: adding the burden of security. Of course, yes I'm curious, 474 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: but what I was gonna do? Well, some seem smart 475 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: on the surface. We're talking about nineteen sixty eight here 476 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 1: in the State Department offered free one way tickets to 477 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: Cuba for anyone who wanted to go, and this was 478 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: on the condition that people wouldn't return. Of course, you know, 479 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: Castro wasn't having any of that. He didn't want them 480 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: in his country, and of course not Yeah, and in 481 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine f A entertained all sorts of ideas. 482 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: One of these included building a replica Havanah Airport in 483 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: South Florida, just to trick the high checkers. Then as 484 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: they really got into they they realized, you know, that 485 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: might be expensive to build. But you know, they also 486 00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: consider things like trap doors or giving flight attendants tranquilizer darts. 487 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: And you know, one of the proposals from the public 488 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: was to make all passengers wear boxing gloves so that 489 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: they couldn't operate a gun on board. There was another 490 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: let's see what else here, you know you've got you 491 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: could you could play the Cuban national anthem and see 492 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: who stands up? I guess, and it just it started 493 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: to get silly. But you know, people were just resigned 494 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 1: to the fact that this is what air travel was. 495 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: And in night, the Pittsburgh Presses editorial board wrote an 496 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: editorial that said, quote, it seems the best we can 497 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 1: do is add airplane hijacking to the list of things 498 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: we don't like, you know, along with sin and high taxes. 499 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: That is really such a baffling idea that everyone was 500 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 1: just willing to accept this, And I know there was 501 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: also a little bit of a psychological profiling that got 502 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: popular at the time to you know, to try to 503 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: better understand the mind of these criminals. Oh yeah, I 504 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: was looking at this as what so, so you're talking 505 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: about the David Hubbard and and and all that psychoanalysis stuff, right, Yeah, 506 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: it's fascinating to me. So Harvard interviewed I think thirty 507 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: or forty skyjackers and came away believing that they all 508 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: shared a similar past. He was just like pop psychiatrists 509 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: who became really popular. And uh. He assumed that all 510 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: skyjackers had strict religious moms, they had dads who are alcoholics, 511 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,360 Speaker 1: they had been bullied, and this is sort of the 512 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: clincher that they were all bad and incompetent with women. 513 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: And that last part is important because that's what made 514 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 1: them interested in airplanes, which he saw as a stand 515 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: in for their members triumphing over gravity. These theories, you know, 516 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: when Hubbard was actually propped up by the airlines because 517 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: he thought skyjackers were too smart to be stopped by 518 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: any of these security measures. So that suited the airlines 519 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: because it took the blame off of them, you know. Instead, 520 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: he thought that if the public linked these crimes to 521 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: sexual inadequacy and also train more female astronauts to make 522 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: flying seem less. Macho, I guess the crimes might then stop. 523 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: What a character and what if our time? Well, let's 524 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: quickly talk about Roger Holder and Kathy Kirko and how 525 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: the government finally put a stop to skyjacking. But first one, 526 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: don't we pause for a little break. Welcome back to 527 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: part time genius, Now, Mengo, I think you wanted to 528 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about Roger Holder and Kathy 529 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: kirk how and and their whole story, So you want 530 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: to dive into that. Yeah, that's right. So they're the 531 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: Bonnie and Clyde of air travel for sure. Honestly, for 532 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 1: anyone who really wants to hear the story, you have 533 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 1: to go get Brendan Corner's incredible book because his reporting 534 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: is incredible. But here's the fifty cent version. So Roger 535 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: Holder ahead this really really rough upbringing. His dad was 536 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 1: devout and a good military man, and he moved the 537 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: family in good faith to Oregon, but he didn't realize 538 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: how rough it was going to be for the family. 539 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: Roger had this terrible time as a child, like his 540 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 1: family tries to move in and then someone won't rent 541 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: them the house once they realized as the family's black, 542 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: Roger and his siblings are beaten and bullied mercilessly in 543 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: this very racist town. They end up in the hospital. 544 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: It's truly horrific. He's incredibly smart, but other than building 545 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: model planes and then juggling girlfriends when he's a little 546 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: older because he's smooth and good looking, there's a much 547 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,719 Speaker 1: of a story, but for a few reasons. He ends 548 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: up in listing in Vietnam, and he's an incredible soldier, 549 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 1: like he's on a number of high profile teams and missions. 550 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: But along the way he sees horrific things, and he 551 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: starts using marijuana to self medicate, you know, which is common, 552 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: but at the time the army and the military were 553 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: going after any sort of drug use. And when he's caught, 554 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 1: he's massively demoted, like he has PTSD and after winning 555 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: all these honors, he's essentially revoked of any honor and 556 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: he's a private again, and he can't take that sort 557 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: of disrespect after serving for his country and putting his 558 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 1: life at risk. So he ends up a while at home, 559 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: which is when he meets Kathy Kirka. She's someone who 560 00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: grew up in the same town as him, but she's 561 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: now selling pot and working at a massage parlor in 562 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: San Diego, and they kind of fall for each other 563 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: really fast. She has a thing for smart, dangerous men, 564 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: and they're both really sexy and Holders into astrology. He's 565 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: determined that meeting Cathy was fate and that they're destined 566 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: for something big. And when Angela Davis, the Black Panther 567 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: and Professor, is imprisoned holding, kirk how decided to hijack 568 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: a plane to get her out of prison. But before 569 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 1: they do, Cathy famously asked Holder, what do you wear 570 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: to a hijacking? Like she wanted to be dressed for 571 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: the event. Anyway, their story gets much crazier. They actually 572 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: get five thousand dollars in ransom. They try to fly 573 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: to North Korea, but then they end up flying to Algiers, 574 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: where they joined Eldrige Clever and this international section of 575 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: the Black Panthers and eventually they run for fourteen years. 576 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: They live it up in Algiers. They meet all these 577 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: like famous people in France, Like they're drinking buddies with 578 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: starts and like all these other like philosophers and artists 579 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: and celebrities, and kirk How becomes a socialite. I mean, 580 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: they're everything that was glamorous about at era, but they're 581 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: also kind of sort of the last remnants of it. 582 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: It is just such a strange story art, but do 583 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,239 Speaker 1: you want to tell the listeners what what ended up 584 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: happening to him? So this is the weirdest part. Kathy 585 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: kirk How is still at large, like no one's ever founder, 586 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: and the theories that she fled to Switzerland with a 587 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: fake passport and then just disappeared. She was amazing at languages, 588 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: and it's just a crazy story. And holder along the 589 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: way he had some more mental problems and he decided 590 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: to come back to the States and turn himself in. 591 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: But kind of underlining how much people really didn't care 592 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: about Ski Jackings. Fifteen years after the era, he only 593 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: got something like three years in a medium security jail 594 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: in North Carolina. It's just an insane story. And you know, 595 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: in Kathy kirk how if you're out there, we'd love 596 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: for you to be a guest on the show. You know, 597 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: you can hit us someone Facebook, Twitter or in our 598 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: seven Fact hot line. I mean, actually it's seven for 599 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: a reason, right, I know, yeah, definitely. But you know, 600 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: of course, stories like Holder and Kirkow stopped once security 601 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: measures were put in place at these airports, and that 602 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: was in nineteen seventy three, and then there was an 603 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: agreement that was made with Cuba return hijackers. Basically, both 604 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: the government and the airlines knew something had to be 605 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: done to curb this epidemic. And according to the book 606 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: we've been talking about, this guy's belonged to us. When 607 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: security was tightened, reporters were excited to report the backlash 608 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: from travelers, so they stalked these giants security lines trying 609 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: to get quotes, but there actually really weren't any, and 610 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: people just seemed to accept that there needed to be 611 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: a trade off and we're happy to go through metal 612 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: detectors and weapons checks just to feel more safe. Yeah, 613 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: and of course the airlines just grumbled about the inconvenience 614 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: and price tag. I'm sure, right, Yeah, So there was 615 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: a University of Chicago economist who looked into this and 616 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: and said that the cost of deterring a single hijacking 617 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: was as high as nine point to five million dollars. 618 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: You know, the public was on board and ticket sales 619 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: went up, and it kind of closed the chapter on 620 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: this golden age of skyjacking. What a bizarre era in 621 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: American history. But you know, before we land the show, 622 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: what do you say we pause for a fact off, 623 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna start when the Supernintendo launched. Nintendo supposedly 624 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: made the shipment at night so it wouldn't be hijacked 625 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: by the Yukuza. Mhm. But we talked a little bit 626 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: about dB Cooper. But did you know that the FBI 627 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: has investigated over a thousand suspects trying to find him, 628 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: and apparently the files in the basement of the FBI 629 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: Seattle office phillips several long rows of shelves there. Do 630 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: you know there's actually a bar that celebrates the anniversary 631 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: of DV. Cooper's heist and they do it with a 632 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: lookalike contest. It's an aerial Washington, which I guess is 633 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: where Cooper may have landed, and the festival has all 634 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: this beer and live music toasted dv or Dan Cooper 635 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: as it's called, But there's also a lookalike contest for 636 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: people who not just look like Cooper but also members 637 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: of the plane's crew. That's so strange, are well here's 638 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: a here's another weird one. In five year old man 639 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: hijacked and air LINGUS plane using a cigarette lighter. The 640 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: only thing he demanded that Pope John Paul the Second 641 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: should release a secret prophecy, the Third Secret of Fatima. Basically, 642 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: he wanted religious spoiler and did the Pope deliver? And 643 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: not then? I mean John Paul revealed the secret and 644 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: two thousands so almost twenty years later, which I guess 645 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: got lost in all the press for Dan Brown's book 646 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: at the time. Yeah, I didn't hear about it. So 647 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: here's the craziest thing I've read about hijacking. Did you 648 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: know there's a Somali pirate exchange where people can bet 649 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: on their favorite real life pirates. Oh wow, that's so evil. 650 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: I know it's pure evil and I read it about 651 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: it in pop Side. But here's what they wrote, land 652 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: Lover Somali civilians can invest in one of seventy two 653 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: maritime companies and hope that their favorite pirate band strikes 654 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: it rich with the successful ransoming of a captured ship 655 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: and crew. I mean it's basically a fantasy lead for pirates. 656 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: And one wealthy former pirate told Reuters that the Stock 657 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 1: Exchange had won local support by making piracy in to 658 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: a quote community activity, community activity. It almost makes it 659 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: sound sweet. That's funny. All right, Well, did you know 660 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: that in nineteen sixty nine, Alan Fund from Candid Camera 661 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: was on a plane that got hijacked. Now, everybody on 662 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: the plane was totally calm because they thought it was 663 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: part of a prank show. They only realized it wasn't 664 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: a gag when they looked out their window and realized 665 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: they'd landed in Cuba. I love that so actually, I 666 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: think that's a great one to leave us on. What 667 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: why don't you hold onto the fact off trophy for now? 668 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Well, thank you guys for listening today. 669 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: If we forgot any great facts you'd like to share 670 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: with us, feel free to send us an email part 671 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: time genius at how stuff works dot com. You can 672 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: also call us on our seven fact hot line. That's 673 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: one eight four four pt. Genius or hit us up 674 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: on Facebook or Twitter. We love hearing from you, guys. 675 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: We love hearing ideas for shows, ideas for Nine Things episodes, 676 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: So keep those emails and calls coming. Thanks so much 677 00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:12,760 Speaker 1: for listening, Y, Thanks again for listening. Part Time Genius 678 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: is a production of how stuff works and wouldn't be 679 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: possible without several brilliant people who do the important things 680 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: we couldn't even begin to understand. CHRISTA McNeil does the 681 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: editing thing. Noel Brown made the theme song and does 682 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: the MIXI mixy sound thing. Jerry Rowland does the exact 683 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 1: producer thing. Gabe Losier is our lead researcher, with support 684 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: from the Research Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown and 685 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 1: Lucas Adams and Eve Jeff Cook gets the show to 686 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 1: your ears. Good job, Eves. If you like what you heard, 687 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 1: we hope you'll subscribe, And if you really really like 688 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: what you've heard, maybe you could leave a good review 689 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: for us. We do we forget Jason Jason, who