Speaker 1: Episode four thirty five, how Jill paid off fifty six
Speaker 1: thousand dollars of debt over seven years.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 2: save money, embrace simplicity, and live a life here your
Speaker 2: hosts Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Frugal Friends Podcase, Podcase, pocase. My name is Jen,
Speaker 1: my name is Jill, and today we are celebrating Jill's
Speaker 1: thirty fifth birthday by re airing our episode where I
Speaker 1: interviewed her about her debt payoff journey.
Speaker 3: What a what a day that was? This was how
Speaker 3: many years ago, two years ago that we talked about this,
Speaker 3: and yeah, we we recorded an episode of you your
Speaker 3: debt payoff story than myself interviewing each other. The story
Speaker 3: remains the same. One thing that's curious to me is
Speaker 3: how as more time passes you look back on these
Speaker 3: experiences and new things come to light or learnings come
Speaker 3: from it. I think that I would probably say different
Speaker 3: things today than I said two years ago, but at
Speaker 3: the same time, I think relevant for my life stage
Speaker 3: then so worth the replay so you can kind of
Speaker 3: understand what the actual journey was. And then we'll give
Speaker 3: them a little recap at the end.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean we did Debt Free Summer this year.
Speaker 1: We aired ten debt free stories from our listeners and
Speaker 1: those were recorded about eighteen months ago. And so I
Speaker 1: think it's important that we don't just hear from personal
Speaker 1: finance experts who had their debt payoff journey five plus
Speaker 1: years ago. A. We're in a different financial economic landscape,
Speaker 1: and b. Over time, your perspective about your debt payoff
Speaker 1: or any goal you've reached. Your perspective changes about your
Speaker 1: own story, and sometimes that's for the better. Sometimes you
Speaker 1: gain more perspective in some areas and then other parts
Speaker 1: you forget. So I think it's always good to and
Speaker 1: I think this is an encouragement that if you have
Speaker 1: accomplished something very recently and maybe you don't feel like
Speaker 1: an expert enough to share or to invest in someone's
Speaker 1: life with your knowledge, I hope you feel encouraged and
Speaker 1: responsible to show up in the capacity that you're at,
Speaker 1: because we need to be sharing our stories, whether we
Speaker 1: are just out of the thick of it, whether we're
Speaker 1: a couple years out or we're many decades out, with
Speaker 1: the mindset that our perspective is also dependent on where
Speaker 1: we're at in the journey, so embracing that perspective and
Speaker 1: not diminishing our accomplishments or over inflating our accomplishments.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's just a good reminder and hopefully
Speaker 3: gives you a glimpse into some of like what I
Speaker 3: went through Jen went through in our debt payoff, and
Speaker 3: is inspirational and informative. So we're excited to replay this
Speaker 3: for you.
Speaker 1: Yes, But first, this episode is brought to you by
Speaker 1: birthday Candles. Candles on a cake and Jill's got a
Speaker 1: lot of them, guys, so many that they just feel
Speaker 1: so haphazardly put on her small cake, and really we
Speaker 1: wish they had been put on there with a little
Speaker 1: bit more organization. And that's why we think that our
Speaker 1: birthday cake for Jill should have gone to the go
Speaker 1: HQ Summit. The go HQ Summit is a free online
Speaker 1: event and it is You can register now at Frugal
Speaker 1: Friends podcast dot com slash go hq GHQ. It's not
Speaker 1: taking place until September ninth, and it's going on that week.
Speaker 1: During that week, you're gonna learn organizational tips, tactics, strategies
Speaker 1: across all areas of your life. So yes, home organization, planning, organization,
Speaker 1: meal planning, wardrobe and fashion organization, home cleaning, decluttering, paper pile,
Speaker 1: stuff like that, organizing your digital life, organizing your finances.
Speaker 1: Obviously we are speaking at the go HQ Summit and
Speaker 1: that is squarely where we are. And then also like
Speaker 1: making time for self care. So there are going to
Speaker 1: be over one hundred organizing experts at this event. So
Speaker 1: please definitely head to Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash
Speaker 1: go HQ, especially if you are a human and not
Speaker 1: a cake, because you will definitely want to glean all
Speaker 1: the wisdom from these experts that are.
Speaker 3: Speaking dead dead Jen, the way that you effortlessly wove
Speaker 3: in Bay, thank you my Chaotic Cake into the Chaotic
Speaker 3: Cake Summit. That was lovely. Yeah, my birthday was two
Speaker 3: days ago. Here we are celebrating with a replay of
Speaker 3: my debt payoff journey. Let's get into it.
Speaker 1: So, Jill, first question for you, how much debt did
Speaker 1: you pay off? What was it from? And what were
Speaker 1: you making roughly while you paid off because it did
Speaker 1: take you quite some time and I know your income
Speaker 1: changed throughout it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, so just to give a little bit of
Speaker 3: an overview. We began paying off debt in twenty thirteen,
Speaker 3: and we made our final payment on our debt in February,
Speaker 3: just before the pandemic. I mean, what's at our lining
Speaker 3: at our house. Yes, we were parked in our trailer
Speaker 3: in your backyard and made our final debt payoff and
Speaker 3: we celebrated, which was so great. So for those of
Speaker 3: you who aren't doing math in your head right now,
Speaker 3: that's seven years to pay off debt. And it was
Speaker 3: a combination of a few different types of debt. And
Speaker 3: I will say this, we collected debt throughout our debt payoff.
Speaker 3: That was intentional and it has led to a lot
Speaker 3: of the things that we can now enjoy. We don't
Speaker 3: want to continue collecting debt, but it was necessary for
Speaker 3: our journey. So I just want to make that kind
Speaker 3: of distinction. It wasn't as if we had this experience
Speaker 3: where suddenly I realize my finances and I'm going to
Speaker 3: get everything in order. I was very aware, but trying
Speaker 3: to be creative with how do I get at my
Speaker 3: financial goals in a way that feels good to me,
Speaker 3: create as much freedom as possible in the least amount
Speaker 3: of time as possible. So one of the debts was
Speaker 3: a thirty two thousand dollars a student loan debt, and
Speaker 3: then the other debts were mostly private loans for our
Speaker 3: motor home at one point, our trailer at another point,
Speaker 3: and a vehicle for Eric's business at another point, so
Speaker 3: essentially vehicles, but those were also houses for us. Two
Speaker 3: of those three vehicles we were also homes, so that
Speaker 3: was the combination of that fifty six thousand dollars of debt.
Speaker 3: When Eric and I got married, I was actually still
Speaker 3: in college. I was wrapping up my undergrad degree. So
Speaker 3: we got married very very low income. He was working
Speaker 3: for himself, he had his own electrical business, lived off
Speaker 3: of that income. Then when I graduated, I of course
Speaker 3: graduated with debt, thank you University system higher education, and
Speaker 3: went right into the social work field, making twenty six
Speaker 3: thousand dollars a year. To me, that was I knew
Speaker 3: it was low, but it was something I was so
Speaker 3: accustomed to not having money. I mean, I'm coming out
Speaker 3: of college, didn't have a lot of money, so I
Speaker 3: was pleased to have a regular paycheck. But twenty six
Speaker 3: thousand dollars, even ten years ago, that was below poverty line.
Speaker 3: That was that was not enough to even cover the basics.
Speaker 3: So frugality was necessary for me just because of my circumstances.
Speaker 3: And Eric had variable income. He was still just starting
Speaker 3: out his business, so I would say our take home
Speaker 3: pay combined was low thirties. So to have thirty two
Speaker 3: thousand dollars of school loan debt felt like so much.
Speaker 3: I know, in some ways it's peanuts compared to what
Speaker 3: students are graduating with these days, but at the time
Speaker 3: that was above my annual salary, so that it really
Speaker 3: did feel like a lot, and I knew I wanted
Speaker 3: it gone. But of course, like we said, we had
Speaker 3: other debts that we had, so we went from making
Speaker 3: about within that. That said, those seven years a combined
Speaker 3: thirty thousand two, there were years when we probably saw
Speaker 3: combined sixty thousand, but pretty low income through those seven
Speaker 3: years of debt payoff as far as a combined income goes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how did Eric feel like about the debt because
Speaker 1: he didn't have any student loans or anything, and at
Speaker 1: that point, like you hadn't acquired an RV or trailer
Speaker 1: or anything, So like, what was his kind of response or.
Speaker 3: I can't totally speak for him, but I'll try. I'll
Speaker 3: do it. I'll try. I think this is going to
Speaker 3: sound so concened. I think he was just so on
Speaker 3: board for like the whole package, the package being me.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, I think I'm sure he would
Speaker 3: have preferred that I didn't have debt, but I think
Speaker 3: it was peripheral to the life that we wanted to
Speaker 3: have together, and he was on board with, Yeah, I
Speaker 3: want to help you pay this off. I think he
Speaker 3: was angry at the college system and yeah, why is
Speaker 3: this a thing? Yeah, but forever and always, and this
Speaker 3: will probably come out as we go through this story.
Speaker 3: We've both been so supportive of each other's endeavors, and
Speaker 3: I think that is some of the reason behind our
Speaker 3: unusual journey throughout debt, freedom and some of our non
Speaker 3: traditional housing situations. So much of us choosing that was
Speaker 3: to support one another in our endeavors, but in a
Speaker 3: way that created space and freedom for us as a couple.
Speaker 3: So he was on board for paying it off, equally
Speaker 3: didn't like it, didn't blame me for it, was glad
Speaker 3: that I was able to pursue the degree that I wanted,
Speaker 3: was able to put that degree into action and care
Speaker 3: for the populations that were important to me. And thankfully
Speaker 3: he didn't have any Lovely, he didn't have any debt.
Speaker 3: He didn't go to undergrad so it was just that
Speaker 3: that we had to pay off. So he was on board.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you also cash flowed your master's degree during
Speaker 1: the seven years.
Speaker 3: Yes, that was not a debt that we acquired, And
Speaker 3: that was one of my parameters. I said to myself
Speaker 3: and others if I were to go back to get
Speaker 3: my masters, because it was lingering for me within the
Speaker 3: field of social work. It's a good idea. I think
Speaker 3: it's always a good idea to expand your skill set
Speaker 3: and experience and understanding, and certainly within this field it's helpful.
Speaker 3: So it was always on my radar. But I said
Speaker 3: to myself and others, I will not get my masters
Speaker 3: if it means me going into debt for it. It
Speaker 3: just was some I hate it. I abhorred the feeling
Speaker 3: of owing tens of thousands of dollars and thankfully we
Speaker 3: were were you able to make that happen. So that
Speaker 3: happened in twenty eighteen, that we cash flowed my master's
Speaker 3: degree and we were able to do that because we
Speaker 3: were living in a motor home at the time.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so let's talk about the motor home and
Speaker 1: the trail.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about all.
Speaker 1: Of the non traditional methods you used to not only
Speaker 1: pay off your debt but also cash flow a master's degree.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this the idea first began. And it's neat
Speaker 3: because Eric and I just celebrated ten years of marriage
Speaker 3: and we went away on a really beautiful vacation and
Speaker 3: we were able to process. We kind of wanted to
Speaker 3: look at big picture of our lives over the last
Speaker 3: ten years. And I even talked with him about this.
Speaker 3: So what is fresh in my mind? How did we
Speaker 3: decide to do that? How it makes sense now just
Speaker 3: looking back. Oh yeah, we did motor homes, But how
Speaker 3: in the world did that even become a thing? And
Speaker 3: it really was for low cost living. A lot of
Speaker 3: people when we say we lived in a trailailer or
Speaker 3: a mobile home, they think, oh, you must have traveled
Speaker 3: the world. You did all not the world, you to
Speaker 3: all the nation, you did all these things, And that
Speaker 3: wasn't the reason for it. I recall Eric and I
Speaker 3: were living in an apartment at the time, and we
Speaker 3: went on a vacation with his family, and we were
Speaker 3: at a lake and rented a pontoon boat, and he
Speaker 3: and his dad were looking at Facebook marketplace for other boats,
Speaker 3: and within his Facebook marketplace boat search, like, oh, could
Speaker 3: we ever buy a boat and fix it up and
Speaker 3: have something fun to do as a family, he came
Speaker 3: across a motor home and was scrolling through and kind
Speaker 3: of thinking, Oh, that that'd be like a fun vacation
Speaker 3: and a fun way to camp, and then kept looking
Speaker 3: at it and saying, this has everything you need. We
Speaker 3: could actually live in one of these. And I had
Speaker 3: already been floating the idea of a master's degree, wanting
Speaker 3: a master's degree, but looking at our finances and saying
Speaker 3: I couldn't do that. I couldn't get my master's degree
Speaker 3: and not go in a further debt. There is just
Speaker 3: no money for this. And not to mention, if I
Speaker 3: get my master's degree, I'm going to have to really
Speaker 3: scale back with work. I'm not going to have much
Speaker 3: time to even be earning income while I'm spending money.
Speaker 3: And so that's when the idea just kind of set
Speaker 3: in of let's see if we could do that, and
Speaker 3: for Eric and I we do move quickly when we
Speaker 3: say something and we kind of get the idea in
Speaker 3: our head then like we jump. So I probably within
Speaker 3: two weeks of that Facebook marketplace motor home, we had
Speaker 3: a motor home and we were beginning to renovate it
Speaker 3: and making moves to moving into it and so again
Speaker 3: for the low cost of living, and it really did
Speaker 3: provide that for us. And I will say what actually
Speaker 3: allowed for us to cash flow the Masters was the
Speaker 3: eventual sale of that motor home. So living in it
Speaker 3: provided us as a place to live without high rent
Speaker 3: or utilities or really any of the other expenses of
Speaker 3: time and resources, which was amazing, just the simple life.
Speaker 3: But then we renovated it and we were able to
Speaker 3: sell it at a profit, which is really what allowed
Speaker 3: us to be able to do that, and we were
Speaker 3: able to sell it. And another unusual living experience that
Speaker 3: we had was we house sat in a log cabin
Speaker 3: for a couple who was near retirement but they wanted
Speaker 3: to keep their home, but there was an opportunity within
Speaker 3: his work to be able to go to Ireland, and
Speaker 3: they didn't want the hassle of tenants, but they wanted
Speaker 3: someone to care for their home. So we were able
Speaker 3: to live there, sell our motor home and not have
Speaker 3: living expenses, and pay for my master's degree. So the
Speaker 3: stars aligned in a lot of ways. But we also
Speaker 3: were moving and shaking. We were running our own businesses
Speaker 3: in the background of me getting my masters and really
Speaker 3: putting ourselves out there for does anyone have things that
Speaker 3: we can do in a non traditional kind of creative way.
Speaker 3: It is attainable, I think for people, but you do
Speaker 3: have to be a specific type of person to be
Speaker 3: able to live in someone else's home for a year
Speaker 3: and all that can come with that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you do have to put yourself in a certain
Speaker 1: position in order to like some of I think the
Speaker 1: house sitting one was kind of like a lucky break.
Speaker 1: You just like right place at right time, but you
Speaker 1: have to put yourself in that right place at that
Speaker 1: right time in order to get lucky. And so there
Speaker 1: are so many unique stories out there that are only
Speaker 1: stories because the people put themselves in a position to
Speaker 1: be able to take advantage of an opportunity that came up.
Speaker 1: And so maybe how sinning isn't an opportunity that comes
Speaker 1: up for you if you're listening to this, But the
Speaker 1: more you put yourself in non traditional situations, the more
Speaker 1: non traditional opportunities come up for you to take advantage
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 3: And thankfully the Internet does provide a lot of those
Speaker 3: types of opportunities. Like, yes, this was an opportunity within
Speaker 3: our network, but there are also all sorts of people
Speaker 3: looking for house sitters for various degrees of amounts of
Speaker 3: time that they're away for, So this could also be
Speaker 3: searched out. You don't have to wait for it to
Speaker 3: falls your lab.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what were some of the logistics to living in
Speaker 1: the RV and then the trailer? So like where did
Speaker 1: you park? How much did it cost? Like what was
Speaker 1: the cost of the RV compared to what you sold
Speaker 1: it for? Stuff like that.
Speaker 3: Sure, parking RVs is one of the most challenging aspects
Speaker 3: of living in a motor home or a trailer, and
Speaker 3: so whenever someone asks us about this and they're tossing
Speaker 3: around the idea, my recommendation is know where you're going
Speaker 3: to park it first before you sink thousands or tens
Speaker 3: of thousands of dollars into this, have a place to
Speaker 3: put it. Thankfully we were able to find that, but
Speaker 3: I'm not going to say that that was easy or
Speaker 3: that we didn't have to move around a bit to
Speaker 3: make that possible for ourselves. I think people are becoming
Speaker 3: more and more open to having RVs parked on their property.
Speaker 3: But National Lampoon's Christmas vacation did not give a great
Speaker 3: look for our veers, and I think a lot of
Speaker 3: people have that image in their head of you're going
Speaker 3: to do what and you're going to live in it
Speaker 3: and you're not just going to camp and where does
Speaker 3: your waiste go? And I don't think I want it.
Speaker 3: But thankfully we had enough other non traditional thinking friends
Speaker 3: and even people on the Internet who were willing to
Speaker 3: let us park on their property. So we did a variety.
Speaker 3: We had our trailer or RV parked at friends' houses
Speaker 3: at some points for short terms of time. We had
Speaker 3: it parked in your backyard for a short period of time.
Speaker 3: There are some RV parks that would allow year round
Speaker 3: rent lots, rental spots that you can have. That's not
Speaker 3: always the most cost effective, and especially if you're like
Speaker 3: us who lived in the North, usually you can only
Speaker 3: find a space for six to eight months out of
Speaker 3: the year. You got to go someplace else for the winter.
Speaker 3: So those are some of the barriers. But one of
Speaker 3: the best situations that we ended up finding when we
Speaker 3: were living in our trailer was we rented out an
Speaker 3: office space which was a previous barn that was renovated
Speaker 3: to be an office on someone's property in the farmland
Speaker 3: of the suburbs of Philadelphia, and they just happened to
Speaker 3: be open enough with us to bowl. I don't know.
Speaker 3: They chose to allow us to park on their property,
Speaker 3: which was amazing. So we both rented out the office
Speaker 3: space because both Eric and I worked remotely, and then
Speaker 3: we were also able to park our trailer on their
Speaker 3: property so we could live there and work there and
Speaker 3: very unusual. I think it was great that they were
Speaker 3: open to that. But things like that we've been able
Speaker 3: to find, and I would say FA Book Marketplace was
Speaker 3: helpful for us in identifying places that we could park
Speaker 3: the motor home and be able to meet with people
Speaker 3: and chat with them and explain to them what we're doing,
Speaker 3: why we're doing it, the type of people that we are.
Speaker 3: We're not going to be partying, We're not going to
Speaker 3: be up late at night. We're gonna be doing weird
Speaker 3: stuff on your property like we promise, We're professional adults.
Speaker 3: But this is what we're doing, and would you be
Speaker 3: willing to let us, like have your hose in your backyard? Yes?
Speaker 1: So what would you say the monthly cost was for
Speaker 1: like living in an RV.
Speaker 3: That's really going to depend, but I'll give a generalization.
Speaker 3: So we paid anywhere from a hundred to one thousand
Speaker 3: dollars to park our trailer monthly. The higher end of
Speaker 3: that spectrum was, of course, when we were at the
Speaker 3: office space where we were both renting an office and
Speaker 3: we had our motor home park there. So for us
Speaker 3: that was great because we were again running our own businesses,
Speaker 3: so a lot of that rental could be a business
Speaker 3: write off, and so we kind of more so factored
Speaker 3: that our lot rent was maybe more so around three
Speaker 3: hundred dollars, so let's say three hundred dollars. Utilities were
Speaker 3: never more than one hundred if you're talking water and
Speaker 3: electric that kind of thing, and then of course whatever
Speaker 3: you're going to spend on food and the rest of
Speaker 3: your life. But I would say, all in all, you're
Speaker 3: talking under five hundred dollars a month to be able
Speaker 3: to live in a tiny home like that, just because
Speaker 3: it is smaller. What you have to feet in cool
Speaker 3: and utilize is much less. That said, the amount of
Speaker 3: time that it took to upkeep a tiny home, and
Speaker 3: especially a motor home in the winter where you actually
Speaker 3: have to be concerned about pipes freezing. It did take
Speaker 3: more time and energy and know how and problem solving
Speaker 3: than I think the average person realized. It's not for
Speaker 3: the feign of heart. I wouldn't recommend just anybody do it,
Speaker 3: And to be honest, I don't know that I would
Speaker 3: have done it on my own if it weren't for Eric.
Speaker 3: He had a lot of that know how, ability to
Speaker 3: fix things in the middle of the night, to problem
Speaker 3: solve what might be going wrong with the AC unit
Speaker 3: or this or that. So there are things to consider
Speaker 3: with it. At the end of the day, I'm so
Speaker 3: pleased for the experience, glad we had it. But that
Speaker 3: is more so the cost, I would say is the
Speaker 3: cost of time and in repairs and problem solving than
Speaker 3: necessarily the finances. So if someone's up for that challenge,
Speaker 3: then it was a fantastic experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the cost of the actual trailer and RV
Speaker 1: were offset by the profit you made because you did
Speaker 1: renovate the RV and the trailer.
Speaker 3: They were beautiful, thanks Jef.
Speaker 1: And from where they were to like where they ended up,
Speaker 1: like you were able to solve for a profit because
Speaker 1: of the cost effective things that you put into it, right,
Speaker 1: So that really did offset it.
Speaker 3: And that was the nice thing. Even though it's a
Speaker 3: vehicle which is usually a depreciating asset. Not only were
Speaker 3: we able to make a profit on it, but obviously
Speaker 3: recoup what we had initially paid and all of the
Speaker 3: money that we put into it for renovation. So it
Speaker 3: almost in some ways for both of the times that
Speaker 3: we did it, and the RV and the trailer, it
Speaker 3: almost felt like a little savings account for us, knowing
Speaker 3: that we're going to get this all of this money
Speaker 3: back and then some when we sell it. And so
Speaker 3: on the first RV that we had, I want to
Speaker 3: say that we made a profit of about eight thousand dollars,
Speaker 3: and on the trailer we made a profit of a
Speaker 3: little over ten thousand dollars. Awesome, and that's not to
Speaker 3: mention that. I mean that's the profit. So we also
Speaker 3: recouped all of the money that we had put into it.
Speaker 3: And so when we sold the RV, that paid for
Speaker 3: my master's degree, and when we sold the trailer, that
Speaker 3: was our down payment on our home here in Saint Petersburg.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we could talk about this all day, but
Speaker 1: we do have a few episodes on Jill's experience rving
Speaker 1: and helping people figure out if it's right for them.
Speaker 1: So that's episode one point thirty how to live in
Speaker 1: an RV or motor home, and then episode seventy eight,
Speaker 1: which is how to save money by living in an RV.
Speaker 1: So definitely check those out if you want to know more.
Speaker 1: But I want to know, do you have any like
Speaker 1: tips for listeners who may be considering, like other forms
Speaker 1: of tiny living to save money or alternative housing.
Speaker 3: I would say do your research, so whether that's reading books,
Speaker 3: listening to podcasts, watching vloggers. That was really helpful for
Speaker 3: Eric and I. We chose the vlogging route. I like visuals,
Speaker 3: so following people who are already doing what you're doing
Speaker 3: and hopefully finding the people who are going to be
Speaker 3: honest with you about it. Thankfully, a lot of social
Speaker 3: media can be quite transparent these days, so seeing if
Speaker 3: the ins and outs of what you think is going
Speaker 3: to be good still appeals to you, and even if
Speaker 3: you can talk with people who are already doing it. Thankfully,
Speaker 3: a lot of people have taken advantage of Eric and
Speaker 3: I in that way, like, hey, we're thinking about doing XYZ,
Speaker 3: and we have opinions on it. People can make their
Speaker 3: own choices, certainly, but I will be very forthright with
Speaker 3: you about the pros and the cons of tiny living,
Speaker 3: and so again, just knowing what that lifestyle is, like,
Speaker 3: what it's going to require of you, the true costs.
Speaker 3: I think sometimes we can glamorize whatever our next step
Speaker 3: is going to be, but really sitting down and pricing
Speaker 3: it out and making sure that you're going to experience
Speaker 3: the savings that you desire to see that you've got
Speaker 3: the skill set to be able to do that, or
Speaker 3: at least the willingness time energy to learn how to
Speaker 3: do that thing. I would not recommend tiny living in
Speaker 3: the north with exposed pipes if you're not willing to
Speaker 3: be up at three in the morning heat like heat
Speaker 3: wrapping it, yeah, or you know, have an alternative place
Speaker 3: to stay if your pipe's too freeze, that kind of thing,
Speaker 3: and then if there's a way to be able to
Speaker 3: practice it. We have heard a lot of stories of
Speaker 3: people who think that this is a lifestyle for them,
Speaker 3: They change their entire life circumstances, sell everything, move into
Speaker 3: an RV and last for a month, and then they've
Speaker 3: got to go refigure out life again. So if you
Speaker 3: know our V life is specifically what you're considering, rent one,
Speaker 3: live in one or borrow of friends and see if
Speaker 3: you can stay in it, pay them to say in
Speaker 3: it for a couple of weeks, and really get a
Speaker 3: feel for if it's a lifestyle you're actually going to enjoy.
Speaker 3: Sometimes our idealized self is not the same as our
Speaker 3: actual self, so try it on for size so wide.
Speaker 1: I love that, Yes, And I want to touch on
Speaker 1: a few more non traditional things you did to pay
Speaker 1: off debt. You had very non traditional side hustles that
Speaker 1: I've never heard of any other people doing. Like my
Speaker 1: favorite one was that you were bartenders at weddings and DJs.
Speaker 1: What are some of the other side hustles you've done
Speaker 1: over the years to just bring an extra cash.
Speaker 3: So Eric and I were DJs first and did that together.
Speaker 3: He would do the music, I would MC. Then we
Speaker 3: had a renovations business together, so he not only did
Speaker 3: he have his own electrical business in the past, but
Speaker 3: he is skilled at all of the trades, so he
Speaker 3: did a lot of knew how to do a lot
Speaker 3: of different construction work types of things very much or
Speaker 3: very capable and not very capable. And you can make
Speaker 3: money with capable, get the best of both worlds if
Speaker 3: we can. And I realized that I really enjoy working
Speaker 3: with my hands as well. I'm not as much of
Speaker 3: a skilled laborer as Eric is, but I can do
Speaker 3: a lot of the finish work, the painting, the calking,
Speaker 3: the nail filling, the design, although he's good at that too,
Speaker 3: and we enjoy working together. So we did that for
Speaker 3: a time, and that was actually the side hustle while
Speaker 3: I was in my master's program full time. That allowed
Speaker 3: me the flexibility but still being able to make some money.
Speaker 3: And then we were bartenders. We built our own portable
Speaker 3: bar and created cocktails around different people's weddings and brought
Speaker 3: our portable bar and served up drinks and had a
Speaker 3: blast with that too. And then Frugal Friends, I mean honestly,
Speaker 3: Frugal Friends, has been a side hustle, very bigger than
Speaker 3: what typical side hustle would be. But these are some
Speaker 3: of the things and I think they sound like they
Speaker 3: span the gamut, but really it has. Oh, there was
Speaker 3: also a time that I sold plants. It was a short,
Speaker 3: a short, little season, but I'm like his mom had
Speaker 3: a ton of plants in her property and she's constantly
Speaker 3: looking to give them away. And I enjoyed plants, and
Speaker 3: so there was a season where I repotted plants and
Speaker 3: put them on a trailer in a front yard alongside
Speaker 3: the road. Wow. I just like whatever I could see
Speaker 3: as low hanging fruit to bring in money. And so
Speaker 3: despite the fact that it's maybe a lot of variety,
Speaker 3: it really had to do with what do we see
Speaker 3: in our tool belt, what's already in our hands, what's
Speaker 3: the low hanging fruit. And so for the djying, Eric
Speaker 3: already had music equipment because he's a musician, and so
Speaker 3: this is an easy thing to do. We have weekends available,
Speaker 3: and yet it still allows us to be together because
Speaker 3: that we enjoy being together, and our work lives took
Speaker 3: us apart from each other a lot, but yet we
Speaker 3: needed increased income. So that was a really nice blend
Speaker 3: for us to have fun, party, play music, make money,
Speaker 3: be together and have a side hustle. And then you know,
Speaker 3: with the renovations that that's a skill set we have.
Speaker 3: And the bartending, yeah, it's a skill set well set.
Speaker 3: We basically just like to party and how can we
Speaker 3: make money doing that? So I think as far as
Speaker 3: if there's a tip somewhere in there, it's a we
Speaker 3: don't have to reinvent the wheel. It doesn't have to
Speaker 3: be let me just what is someone else doing? How
Speaker 3: can I do that same thing? Just what's in your
Speaker 3: hand already? What are you good at, what do you
Speaker 3: enjoy doing, what feels life giving? What is something you
Speaker 3: don't mind doing? Might even spur you on in your
Speaker 3: day to day nine to five job provides an outlet
Speaker 3: that is completely separate from what you do. It doesn't
Speaker 3: always have to be congruent to what you're nine five is.
Speaker 3: It could provide a different look at your personhood. And
Speaker 3: that's what those things were completely separate from social work
Speaker 3: and trauma. It was completely separate.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I think that's so wise is to look to
Speaker 1: be paying attention enough to see what's already in front
Speaker 1: of you. And you did that with your living situations,
Speaker 1: with your expenses, you did it with your income. You
Speaker 1: were just always aware of how can I get creative
Speaker 1: with what's available, and you were so successful because of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so knowing that if you had to do it all
Speaker 1: over again, would you change anything.
Speaker 3: It's been such a journey, And thankfully I don't live
Speaker 3: with regret. I'm I'm pleased and grateful for that that
Speaker 3: there's nothing that I would look back on and say, oh,
Speaker 3: I wish I wouldn't have done that, Or I think
Speaker 3: every experience that I've had has lended itself to the
Speaker 3: next and I have gained an incredible skill set and
Speaker 3: variety of experiences in my life and it feels full
Speaker 3: and rich, and so I'm grateful for that. That said,
Speaker 3: if there were anything that I might change or maybe
Speaker 3: would have said to myself in the past, again, not
Speaker 3: a regret, but a message to my younger self and
Speaker 3: maybe anybody else who's listening. I do wish that I
Speaker 3: had gotten a hold of the permission earlier on that
Speaker 3: I had to make changes in the work that I
Speaker 3: set my hands to, or what might be available to me,
Speaker 3: the freedom and permission to think outside the box in
Speaker 3: what I'm currently doing. I think very specifically to that
Speaker 3: first job that I had out of college. It was
Speaker 3: actually the internship that I had that they just hired
Speaker 3: me on and I kept going with it, and that
Speaker 3: felt simple to me. And it was very, very difficult,
Speaker 3: for lack of a better word, and I'm grateful for
Speaker 3: that experience. I do think it formed me in a
Speaker 3: lot of ways. But I also think I could have
Speaker 3: stepped out sooner if I had known the freedom permission
Speaker 3: that was available to me. I felt stuck, I felt trapped.
Speaker 3: I felt like I couldn't do anything different, and this
Speaker 3: is what my finances are going to look like for
Speaker 3: the rest of my life, Like I don't how could
Speaker 3: I possibly leave. I worked at a residential facility for adolescence,
Speaker 3: and so what mainly kept me there was my heart
Speaker 3: for these kids. I was very angry at the system,
Speaker 3: but the kids kept me there, and so there's a
Speaker 3: tension in that certainly. But I think I wish I
Speaker 3: would have realized earlier on that I don't have to
Speaker 3: care for others at the sacrifice of myself. That I
Speaker 3: can still matter in the work, and there are other
Speaker 3: ways that I can care for people. I'm not stepping
Speaker 3: over myself, exhausting myself, sacrificing myself, unnecessarily burning myself out.
Speaker 3: I wish I would have made a move sooner.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's such a culture in any work like
Speaker 1: social work, any human facing work in that context that
Speaker 1: says you should come second and you should make very
Speaker 1: little money. And I think you can transfer that to
Speaker 1: a lot of other like professions and maybe even families
Speaker 1: where they say this is what you know, this is
Speaker 1: what mom made, so this is what I'm going to make,
Speaker 1: or this is just what we do and stuff, and
Speaker 1: this is how the profession is. Yeah, so not even
Speaker 1: knowing that there's more beyond, but once you find out,
Speaker 1: giving yourself permission to take.
Speaker 3: Action on what you know. And there's something to be
Speaker 3: said for gaining experience. I don't think that I could
Speaker 3: have stepped into from just graduating college into the role
Speaker 3: that I now hold, Like it does take experience and
Speaker 3: a growth of skill set and knowledge and understanding to
Speaker 3: be able to step into higher paying roles. But even
Speaker 3: still at that point, the organization didn't rely on me
Speaker 3: spending sixty hours a week making twenty six thousand dollars
Speaker 3: a year like that's ludicrous and I was being taken
Speaker 3: advantage of. But I couldn't see out from under that
Speaker 3: that just water that I felt what I was underneath
Speaker 3: and drowning in and once I realize I think I
Speaker 3: kept waiting for something to change, but nothing was changing.
Speaker 3: And I felt this like deep heart cry, like I
Speaker 3: just want out of the situation. This feels suffocating. And
Speaker 3: it was also in that very moment that I realized
Speaker 3: I can leave, I can choose to leave, I can
Speaker 3: I can do anything else creative. I don't have to
Speaker 3: wait for something else to come into place. And I
Speaker 3: get it that the best time to look for a
Speaker 3: job is when you have a job. But there were
Speaker 3: a few things that I was able to kind of
Speaker 3: line up to give me more security in stepping out,
Speaker 3: but other things can shift and change around. It's not
Speaker 3: worth us killing ourselves to be in a job if
Speaker 3: it is really sucking the life out of us. And
Speaker 3: that is in a lot of ways, the non traditional
Speaker 3: living that we chose. We did that so that there
Speaker 3: could be freedom for Eric to choose what he wanted
Speaker 3: to do, for me to choose what I wanted to do,
Speaker 3: even when we weren't making a lot of money, to
Speaker 3: make space for each other in that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, something else that we choose to make space for
Speaker 1: every week is.
Speaker 3: The Bill of a week.
Speaker 2: That's right, it's time for the best minute of your
Speaker 2: entire week. Baby was born and his name is Williams.
Speaker 2: Maybe you paid off your mortgage, maybe your car died,
Speaker 2: and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore.
Speaker 2: That bills, Buffalo bills, Bill Clinton, this is the bill
Speaker 2: of the week.
Speaker 1: So this week we will play one of our listeners
Speaker 1: bills a week. But also, Jill, we would like you
Speaker 1: to share your bill for the week.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, I'll just go with a bill that I
Speaker 3: don't mind paying. And that's my bill for gum. I
Speaker 3: don't get, not.
Speaker 1: What I was expecting, but I'm not surprised.
Speaker 3: I don't get a monthly bill for gum, although I
Speaker 3: do get gum monthly, so it feels that way. I've
Speaker 3: got like my own personal subscription. I love gum. You
Speaker 3: can't talk me out of it. I eat a lot
Speaker 3: of gum my go to these days, and for a
Speaker 3: while now has been extra peppermint. I want to say,
Speaker 3: it's not Spearman's not enduring pack. No, no, no, we're not.
Speaker 1: We would gladly accept it.
Speaker 3: If you want to take a deep dive. That's what
Speaker 3: I spend my dollar fifty on.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, yeah, I'm not surprised, but also yeah, good
Speaker 1: for you. Okay, let's let's hear one from our listener.
Speaker 4: Okay, Hi, Jim and Jill. My name is Dianna and
Speaker 4: this is my first time calling for the bill of
Speaker 4: My husband and I are excited. We have been planning
Speaker 4: a trip to Disney World for our kids next year.
Speaker 4: After listening to one of your episodes, I decided to
Speaker 4: look into the Disney World credit card and found that
Speaker 4: they were doing zero percent interest for six months and
Speaker 4: if I paid for our trip using the credit card,
Speaker 4: I would get three hundred dollars off. So I did
Speaker 4: that and it has been officially six months later and
Speaker 4: our trip is completely paid for without any additional interest
Speaker 4: on the card. Another feature of the card was we
Speaker 4: got free door dash delivery, so my husband I have
Speaker 4: been using that one to two times a month as
Speaker 4: a date night end and once my kids go to bed,
Speaker 4: and that has been a great feature of the card.
Speaker 4: I really appreciate all of your podcasts. The fun that
Speaker 4: you have during the show makes me smile, and I
Speaker 4: love hearing all of your tips to being a frugal
Speaker 4: and what that entails for a happy life. Keep it going,
Speaker 4: and I can't wait to hear more.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Oh yay, Diana. I love that these Bills
Speaker 3: of the Week are also turning into just like many
Speaker 3: encouragement sessions. It's just like kind words that people are
Speaker 3: saying to us. I'll take that. So heartwarming. But also
Speaker 3: the way that you've hacked this opportunity with a Disney
Speaker 3: credit card. We're not endorsed by Disney. They make it,
Speaker 3: but again, if they want, I'll take your money at me.
Speaker 3: And that's the thing. I think credit cards really can
Speaker 3: be used in our favor. We can be wise about
Speaker 3: it if we know how to take advantage of the
Speaker 3: perks and not allow them to take advantage of Yes,
Speaker 3: So the way that you're utilizing this opportunity sounds so amazing.
Speaker 3: That you were able to have a really wonderful trip
Speaker 3: with your family and then regular dates with your husband indoors,
Speaker 3: not indoors at home, I maybe outdoors at home.
Speaker 1: I know how sacred the time is between when a
Speaker 1: child goes to bed and you go to bed, Like
Speaker 1: that is sacred, holy grime. So that's so awesome, Deanna. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we love travel hacking. I love taking money from specifically
Speaker 1: Chase Bank, because I know that's where the Disney card
Speaker 1: is partnered. I just love taking money from them and
Speaker 1: not giving them anything in return. That's like one of
Speaker 1: my favorite things to do. So if you have a
Speaker 1: bill where you have taken something from a big bank
Speaker 1: and given them nothing in return, or just know a
Speaker 1: person that you met on vacation named Bill who knows
Speaker 1: you can leave us a bill at Frugal Friends podcast
Speaker 1: dot com slash Bill.
Speaker 3: And now it's time for briking around.
Speaker 1: So today our lightning round that Jill and I will
Speaker 1: both answer is one habit or practice you did not
Speaker 1: take with you after paying off your debt. So what's
Speaker 1: something you did while paying off debt that you no
Speaker 1: longer do?
Speaker 3: This isn't a habit or a practice, But the first
Speaker 3: thing that comes to my mind is stress, Like I
Speaker 3: didn't take stress with me post at least that's concerning finances.
Speaker 3: You have to have another answer to I, Well, but
Speaker 3: I okay, so I could like that more tangible. Then
Speaker 3: I think some of the tenacity towards that debt payoff
Speaker 3: and what that required of us, so we don't feel
Speaker 3: the need to go as hard at side hustles as
Speaker 3: we did before. I'm not constantly thinking up how can
Speaker 3: I make money off of this, or how can someone
Speaker 3: pay me for this? Or how can I spend the
Speaker 3: least amount of money on this thing even if I
Speaker 3: need it? And that has been that's been a really
Speaker 3: almost just a beautiful consequence of this and earning more income.
Speaker 3: So it for me, my debt payoff is very interconnected
Speaker 3: with earning higher levels of income. So sometimes I don't
Speaker 3: quite know is what I'm experiencing because I'm debt free,
Speaker 3: or is what I'm experiencing because We've been intentional about
Speaker 3: earning more and making more And maybe it's a combination.
Speaker 3: But I have not I've not felt the need to
Speaker 3: tally up everything that I'm purchasing at the grocery store
Speaker 3: or do bare minimum mom with every single decision that
Speaker 3: I make. And some of that is just like moving
Speaker 3: out of scarcity mindset, moving out of literally financially being
Speaker 3: in poverty, which I'm so grateful for. So there's just Yeah,
Speaker 3: in some ways, I think it's a habit, it's a
Speaker 3: thought process. The way that I approach purchases, how I
Speaker 3: think about them has shifted a lot. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 3: good one. That's a good answer, thank you.
Speaker 1: Something else that you did not take is living in
Speaker 1: your living in a trailer.
Speaker 3: Don't live in a vehicle any own arm. Yes. Yes, however,
Speaker 3: we did live in our trailer for a bit of
Speaker 3: time post debt freedom, but yeah, that didn't last very long. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we quickly sold it and used that money to buy
Speaker 3: a house, and that was It was never the intention
Speaker 3: for that to be a long term lifestyle. And I
Speaker 3: am definitely a proponent of non traditional living circumstances for
Speaker 3: a specified goal that we don't don't have to do
Speaker 3: these things. And I think a lot of people looked
Speaker 3: at us like, oh, you're the tiny home livers, like
Speaker 3: that's what you do is your identity? Yeah, you dwell
Speaker 3: in tiny homes and that's it. And we did for
Speaker 3: a time. It was a big part of our lives
Speaker 3: and what defined us. But we never intended for that
Speaker 3: to be this is what we're doing. Because all of
Speaker 3: our ideology and outlook is intertwined with this. It helped
Speaker 3: us a lot in that regard. But anyhow, freedom and
Speaker 3: that too, that you could do something for a time
Speaker 3: just to get at another goal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, So for me, and this is going to
Speaker 1: be a little controversial. It's not the same for Jill,
Speaker 1: but for me, it's budgeting is a practice that I
Speaker 1: don't really do often anymore. And some people are going
Speaker 1: to be really offended by this. But I spent years
Speaker 1: figuring out how to lower my expenses, control my impulse purchases,
Speaker 1: raise my income, and I am still constantly aware of
Speaker 1: those things, constantly of ware, aware of impulse buying efficient
Speaker 1: ways to increase my income, not like short sighted ways,
Speaker 1: and so I am constantly aware of those things, and
Speaker 1: I do check my accounts monthly to make sure that
Speaker 1: nobody has hacked me. But I don't really budget anymore,
Speaker 1: and so there's pros and cons to that. I've never
Speaker 1: been much of a budgeter, even so when we did
Speaker 1: it when we were paying off debt, we did it
Speaker 1: very strictly every month because we needed to know to
Speaker 1: the penny. Our income was also lower and a lot
Speaker 1: more of our money was going towards a short term goal.
Speaker 1: And now that it is not, we are doing like
Speaker 1: renovations on our home. But we have kind of set
Speaker 1: up our lives, in our lifestyles in a way that
Speaker 1: we can just live on one income and not care
Speaker 1: about the rest. I mean not care about it, but
Speaker 1: like either invest or save the rest. So we just
Speaker 1: really focus on just spending and spending what we have
Speaker 1: because what we have is only half of what we make.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that is a thing that I did not
Speaker 1: take with me after And one of the cons is
Speaker 1: that sometimes I can get a little anxious about money
Speaker 1: because I do also love control, and I don't have
Speaker 1: control over every single penny. But I think the it's
Speaker 1: not that serious, Like I have enough other things that
Speaker 1: I can control and have power in that. This is
Speaker 1: one of those things that I know, I'm confident in
Speaker 1: these skills I have created that I really just check
Speaker 1: to see if anybody's hacked my bank stuff. And we
Speaker 1: travel hacked too, so we're always switching up cards and
Speaker 1: closing or locking cards, so like that kind of helps
Speaker 1: with the hacking too.
Speaker 3: So you're not alone in what you're describing. I'm hearing
Speaker 3: more and more people say I don't budget. And I
Speaker 3: also think there's a spectrum to that. Just like people
Speaker 3: talk about retiring early, it's not for most people, it's
Speaker 3: not really retiring early, and so whatever they define that
Speaker 3: to be, And so I think you're defining the way
Speaker 3: that you manage money, and I think in some ways
Speaker 3: that is what budgeting is. And because you have so
Speaker 3: much practice with it, this makes sense for you. I
Speaker 3: would imagine that you have a very good estimate of
Speaker 3: your bills and you're spending because I know you say
Speaker 3: I don't budget, but I'm sure if I ask you,
Speaker 3: what are utilities monthly? What's your mortgage, what's your discretionary spending?
Speaker 3: What about groceries? What do you typically spend on takeout?
Speaker 3: Like you would probably be able to rattle that off
Speaker 3: within a five dollars range of accuracy.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I could get five dollars. I
Speaker 1: definitely do know what our bills are and all of that,
Speaker 1: And like, I don't think you should trust me if
Speaker 1: I'm on here with this podcast not being able to
Speaker 1: say that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, just like, but just to clarify for people,
Speaker 3: because I think I love the freedom that's being talked about,
Speaker 3: both in circuit your experiences and the choices you made
Speaker 3: as well as mine, but also the journey to get there.
Speaker 3: That yes, credit cards can be awesome, but don't use
Speaker 3: them if they're a downfall for you. Yeah, yes, living
Speaker 3: tiny is awesome, but don't do it if you've got
Speaker 3: ten kids or like you live in Alaska at least
Speaker 3: an RV tiny homes are fine. Yeah, you don't have
Speaker 3: to budget. But as long as you've got a really
Speaker 3: good handle on your finances and you have budgeted in
Speaker 3: the past, you know what that means, and you know
Speaker 3: where your money's going now. So there's freedom, but there's
Speaker 3: also a skill set and experience to be built at
Speaker 3: all as well.
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, Jill, happy birthday. I think time has maybe
Speaker 1: also revealed that you might have paid off more than fifty.
Speaker 3: Six thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: That's another thing you'd think somebody who has a personal
Speaker 1: finance podcast and like paid off debt would remember.
Speaker 3: Just all piled up, and I didn't really want to
Speaker 3: look at it. I just was trying to knock it
Speaker 3: down whatever I could. But I recently, in writing the book,
Speaker 3: I pulled out true, true numbers and it was more
Speaker 3: like sixty thousand dollars that we paid off, So I
Speaker 3: wasn't too far off.
Speaker 1: You like undersold your plishment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the thing too, And I don't know that I
Speaker 3: had said this in the interview, And I think we've
Speaker 3: gotten a little bit more bold in the last two
Speaker 3: years in calling it this way that debt is neutral.
Speaker 3: That during our debt payoff, we also took on debt.
Speaker 3: So that's something that we're becoming a bit more open
Speaker 3: about and recognizing that there are sometimes reasons that we
Speaker 3: might take on loans. And the landscape has changed so
Speaker 3: much since twenty twenty. So I paid off, actually I
Speaker 3: paid off our debt. We became debt free at your place,
Speaker 3: at our February twenty twenty. We were parked in our
Speaker 3: RV in your driveway February twenty twenty, and that is
Speaker 3: where we became debt free. Super celebratory. And then you
Speaker 3: all know what happened in March, and the world changed
Speaker 3: and pricing changed and interest rates changed, and the way
Speaker 3: that we purchased changed, and it didn't feel great. But
Speaker 3: I had to take on Eric and I had to
Speaker 3: take on a loan for a vehicle. We only have
Speaker 3: one vehicle, but even that we had to buy new
Speaker 3: because the one that we had previous to that was
Speaker 3: like its break lines kept it was we're rusted out.
Speaker 3: And three separate occasions we were in some very precarious
Speaker 3: situations and it was urgent that we get a car,
Speaker 3: and we didn't buy a new car. You did buy
Speaker 3: no no, yes, a certified pre owned, but from a
Speaker 3: dealership where we had to take out alone. So there's
Speaker 3: just been some things that have happened since then that
Speaker 3: I think also overlay on this debt payoff journey we did.
Speaker 1: And we did the same thing. We also became completely
Speaker 1: debt free besides our house, and then we took out
Speaker 1: a car loan because we wanted to use that money
Speaker 1: to renovate the investment property live in Flip that we bought.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, but I think having experienced a time of
Speaker 3: being truly debt free, where like we lived in our
Speaker 3: RV and we owned our RV and all of you know,
Speaker 3: my master's an undergrad was paid off, I think having
Speaker 3: accomplished that was still worth definitely worthwhile, and having experienced
Speaker 3: what came after that was worthwhile. But I think one
Speaker 3: of the things that it revealed to me is, yeah,
Speaker 3: debt is relatively neutral, Like what's on the other side
Speaker 3: of it is not nirvana. It's worth pursuing, but it's
Speaker 3: not the end all, be all, and life is going
Speaker 3: to continue to happen and there may be times where
Speaker 3: we have to choose to take on loans with eyes
Speaker 3: wide open. I think that's the difference is when I
Speaker 3: took on my student loans, my eyes were not fully open.
Speaker 3: I didn't know what I was signing up for. But
Speaker 3: fast forward too, I've gone through paying off debt. The
Speaker 3: landscape is different. We need to make wise decisions for
Speaker 3: ourselves and our safety, and it's going to require XYZ
Speaker 3: to do that. And I'm okay with that because I
Speaker 3: understood what it took to pay it off. I understand
Speaker 3: what it means to sign up for a loan. I
Speaker 3: understand what needs to play into a loone decision, what
Speaker 3: sorts of factors I need to consider in what I'm
Speaker 3: agreeing to, and eyes wide open, I'm okay with this
Speaker 3: as we take into consideration our income and other risks
Speaker 3: and liabilities and all of that. So yeah, it's it's celebratory.
Speaker 3: I think it's a worthwhile aim, but I think I'm
Speaker 3: also holding it in tension with now this kind of
Speaker 3: new removed shame from debt and understanding that sometimes life
Speaker 3: calls for it when you need the degree now rather
Speaker 3: than in fifty years, and you need the house now.
Speaker 3: While the kids are young rather than in fifty years,
Speaker 3: and you need the car now rather than waiting until
Speaker 3: the brake lines rust out a fourth time and you're
Speaker 3: in an accident.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, well, I think that's one of the dangerous
Speaker 1: things in UH like content made about debt freedom is
Speaker 1: that all debt is bad, right, or there's this good
Speaker 1: debt and bad debt and housing is always good debt,
Speaker 1: student loans are always good debt, credit cards are always
Speaker 1: bad debt, and the narrative just it doesn't make sense
Speaker 1: anymore what we should be. It's kind of I mean,
Speaker 1: kind of like trying to tell people they shouldn't have
Speaker 1: kids when you're not going to teach them about contraceptions.
Speaker 3: So it's like, you.
Speaker 1: Need to know what alone is. You need to know
Speaker 1: what an interest rate is. You need to know what
Speaker 1: the stock market is returning, like with inflation to know
Speaker 1: if it's worth keeping a low interest debt. You just
Speaker 1: can't have the conversation from a mindset of this is
Speaker 1: all bad if you want to have a complete or
Speaker 1: a whole conversation. So, I mean, we still use the
Speaker 1: seven percent return on the stock market to kind of
Speaker 1: calculate our retirement savings. I think after the last couple
Speaker 1: of years, I think it's it's safe if you want
Speaker 1: to use six percent. But everybody I talked to is
Speaker 1: still using seven confidently, which accounts for the typical three
Speaker 1: percent inflation, even though we have not seen that in
Speaker 1: the past couple of years. But this is a small
Speaker 1: snapshot of a larger picture. And so that means that
Speaker 1: if your interest rate on your loan is less than
Speaker 1: six percent, then it can make sense to very evenly
Speaker 1: balance your debt payoff with your investing. If your interest
Speaker 1: rate is far lower than six percent, like I know
Speaker 1: a friend of ours recently she consolidated her student her
Speaker 1: private student loans. Now they're like three or four percent.
Speaker 1: Or if you were lucky enough to refinance your mortgage
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one or thereabouts and got a really
Speaker 1: low mortgage rate, like then it's beneficial to you to
Speaker 1: just keep that for as long as you can. So
Speaker 1: if you are putting more into investing, so things like
Speaker 1: that you need to think about if you're going to
Speaker 1: have a complete conversation about.
Speaker 3: Ultimately, I'm grateful for the journey, and I'm grateful for
Speaker 3: where we've come to, and I think for both you
Speaker 3: and I jen removing the shame from it and being
Speaker 3: able to make informed decisions on what we do with
Speaker 3: our resources, how we engage with debt. Debt is neutral
Speaker 3: and making it functional and just beneficial for us, rather
Speaker 3: than putting so many labels on things. And if you
Speaker 3: all are here for this message, wherever you are in
Speaker 3: your debt payoff journey, if this is resonating with you,
Speaker 3: and if you want to hear more, we do talk
Speaker 3: a bit more about this in our book, By What
Speaker 3: you Love Without Going Broke By What you lovebook dot Com.
Speaker 3: We share a whole lot more about this. It is
Speaker 3: our baby, is our love letter to all of you,
Speaker 3: So we'd love if you all pre ordered that.
Speaker 1: And if you were able to make it out to
Speaker 1: the pre order launch party. Thank you so much for attending.
Speaker 1: As recorded this and it hasn't happened yet, but we
Speaker 1: anticipate people who uch and yeah, it's going to be
Speaker 1: it was so fun. I anticipate that it was so fun,
Speaker 1: and thank you for coming. Thank you to everyone who's
Speaker 1: pre ordered already. It does make a difference in the
Speaker 1: effort that our publisher puts into marketing us. So even
Speaker 1: if you feel like I'm frugal. I don't really need
Speaker 1: to learn any more about frugality. If you pre order
Speaker 1: our book, either for a family member or a friend,
Speaker 1: it helps our publisher put more stock in the book,
Speaker 1: to publicize it to more people who do need it,
Speaker 1: to tell libraries that it's an important book, so more
Speaker 1: libraries carry it, and it just tells more publishers that
Speaker 1: this is the kind of financial content that people want,
Speaker 1: not as much get rich quick, get rich with real estate,
Speaker 1: invest and become a multimillionaire through stocks and so which
Speaker 1: are all really great, but the personal finance books are
Speaker 1: definitely missing a lot of not just earning more so
Speaker 1: we can consume more, but using our money wisely and
Speaker 1: consuming only what we value.
Speaker 3: Thanky, what youlovebook dot com. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 3: And one of the things we're also so grateful to
Speaker 3: you all for is those of you who have left
Speaker 3: such kind reviews like this roum from Natalie Novakna. I
Speaker 3: love your podcast, heart emoji five stars, thank you for
Speaker 3: such important topics you to serve one hundred stars here.
Speaker 3: Thank you short and sweet and still gives me goosebumps
Speaker 3: and brings to.
Speaker 1: Yours man if you enjoyed this show, please take a
Speaker 1: minute to leave a rating and review. I know some
Speaker 1: of you have even left reviews for the friend letter
Speaker 1: in the podcast review which is totally great. And if
Speaker 1: you want to say you're excited for the book coming out,
Speaker 1: you can also leave that rating and review. We we
Speaker 1: love it it. Lets potential listeners know what we're all about.
Speaker 3: Thanks everyone, See you next time.
Speaker 1: Google Friends is produced by Eric Siriani.
Speaker 3: Okay, Jen, it was just my birthday. I'm thirty five
Speaker 3: now hers cheers.
Speaker 1: Ash's choosing me.
Speaker 3: Oh did you hear it?
Speaker 1: There?
Speaker 3: It is?
Speaker 1: Is this my birthday?
Speaker 3: It's the after Joe. So we go on to giggle
Speaker 3: get over it. And I took a page out of
Speaker 3: our own podcast episode about staycations. You can go back.
Speaker 3: I don't know, a couple months, maybe a couple of
Speaker 3: weeks we talked about staycations and we are going to
Speaker 3: go We are right now at the time of this
Speaker 3: recording at a hotel on the beach, like fifteen minutes
Speaker 3: away for months. Which hotel it is?
Speaker 1: Car Maybe you shouldn't say it if you are curly,
Speaker 1: that's so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you'll never guess. I can't wait to hear. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's a it's a hotel on the north of Saint
Speaker 3: Petersburg Beach, Santete Beach.
Speaker 1: And what are you hoping to do there?
Speaker 3: Well, I am hoping to just invite people to come
Speaker 3: show up like yourself.
Speaker 1: Deal, I'm there.
Speaker 3: It's Friday to Sunday that I'm going to be there.
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna planning on sending out just an open
Speaker 3: invite to people with a loose schedule. That schedule is
Speaker 3: going to be I'm on the beach comes.
Speaker 1: It's like my birthday. Yeah, well that's the feels like
Speaker 1: that's the gift to me.
Speaker 3: I feel like my birthday should feel like it's everybody's
Speaker 3: because we should all just be doing what we love,
Speaker 3: you know, cheers. So that's what we're doing currently on
Speaker 3: August twenty third. We have to be there.
Speaker 1: We're definitely not saying what hotels A.
Speaker 3: Because we're both gonna be there, not that anybody's actually
Speaker 3: listening and hounding us. But I like to.
Speaker 1: Think that we are so important that we cannot give
Speaker 1: out our real locations in real time.
Speaker 3: We totally like no one would care.
Speaker 1: But I want to think we are so important that
Speaker 1: we really for our safety.
Speaker 3: We care. We will have bodyguards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's names are Travis and Eric.
Speaker 3: So all right yet on have fun,