1 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Technology, What tex Stop from host Coom. Hey there, and 2 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: welcome to Text Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland. I'm joining me 3 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 1: in the studio is my good friend and colleague Den 4 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: Boland's Den, welcome back to the show. Hey, thanks for 5 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: having me. Fact. You know, I have to say I 6 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: worked on an opening joke for this but at uh 7 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: but at this point I thought, you know, I don't 8 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 1: want to disparage the gravity of what we're doing anything 9 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: less than a few tangents or puns in this story, 10 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: because this is a fascinating story. It's a fascinating story, 11 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: and and you can't get around the fact that the 12 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: end of the story is massively tragic, right Like, like 13 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: there's there's a ton of things that we can talk about, 14 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: and what we are talking about is the Manhattan Project. 15 00:00:58,720 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna go ahead and let you guys know, 16 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: this sucker is going to be a two parter because 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: in order to cover the Manhattan Project, you have to 18 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 1: have an understanding of what was going on in physics 19 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: leading up to the beginning of the project, which will 20 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 1: be this episode, and then there's another episode that will 21 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: be all about the actual developments of the project itself. 22 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: And this is complicated for multiple reasons. One, nuclear physics 23 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: not straightforward as it turns out. Yeah, actually lots of 24 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: pressure because of the implosion technique. But we'll get into 25 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 1: that in episode two. Also politics, a lot of politics. 26 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, the Manhattan Project was formed as a 27 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: result of World War Two. If World War Two had 28 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: not been happening, the Manhattan Project probably would not have 29 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: been formed, and nuclear power may have either been pushed 30 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: back by quite a bit or someone else would have 31 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: ended up developing it ahead of the United States. So, uh, 32 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: both of those things. Science and politics by themselves are complex. 33 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: And when you come buying the two and you try 34 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: to make science work within the realm of a political structure, 35 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: it gets messy. Yeah, and not not in like a 36 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: cool I got my hair cut at a nice salon. 37 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: Look at me. Messy, not like rolled out of bed. Oh, 38 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: this didn't hike me any time at all. Right, messy 39 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: as in, uh, is a massive loss of blood and treasure. 40 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: I think we're looking at the equivalent of when it 41 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: got rolling thirty billion dollars you you know, yeah, today's money. 42 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: It all depends upon the well, it really depends upon 43 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 1: how you define the scope of the project, because that's 44 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: something else that's kind of confusing because you hear Manhattan 45 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: Project and you think, okay, uh, Manhattan Project, that's the 46 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: one that took place in oak Ridge, Tennessee, Hanford, Washington, 47 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:53,839 Speaker 1: Los Alamos, New Mexico. Makes sense. We will explain all 48 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: of that as we go through. So in case you 49 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: weren't aware of, the Manhattan Project was the code named 50 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: the United States government gave to the the effort to 51 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: design and build an atomic bomb for use in World 52 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: War two. And in order for us to talk about 53 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: we have to go back way before World War two. 54 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: In fact, we have to go back before World War One. Yes, yeah, 55 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: we have to go all the way back to the 56 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: I guess the end of the nineteenth century, that is correct, 57 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: late nineteenth century. Uh. There was a fella by the 58 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: name of Henrie beccarell alright who had made an interesting 59 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: observation observing that some material, when placed against some plates, 60 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: would create a negative image. And he had assumed that 61 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: this material was phosphorescent, that it absorbed sunlight and then 62 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: given off some form of ray to create this image, 63 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: but later determined that he was mistaken that there was 64 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: no need for the sunlight. The stuff was giving off 65 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: the ray is by itself. And then you had the 66 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: Curies coming along who who went on to study this themselves. 67 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: Marie Cury coined the term radioactive radioactive with the word 68 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: ray in it. And so at this point there was 69 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: an understanding that certain elements had a type of energy 70 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: they could give off spontaneously, spontaneous radiation. And that is 71 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: the beginning, the nub that the kernel that forms the 72 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: the very center of the Manhattan Project's purpose. So building 73 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 1: on that we then have there's a guy in Nive. 74 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: He had a little theory. It was a special theory, 75 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: I mean relatively special man. Yes, yes, And that that 76 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: man you may know today through countless Internet memes Albert Einstein. Yes, yes, 77 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: Albert Einstein al to friends, was a brilliant physicist, obviously, 78 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: and it was all the way back in when Einstein 79 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: proposed the special theory of relativity, which, among many other things, 80 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: positive that energy and matter are pretty much interchangeable. And 81 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: this is where the the famous equation E equals MC 82 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: squared comes from. The E means energy, the M means mass, 83 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: The C squared C stands for the constant of the 84 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: speed of light through a vacuum. Keeping in mind that 85 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: light actually can travel at different speeds depending upon the 86 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,559 Speaker 1: medium through which it travels. Travels more slowly through water 87 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: than through a vacuum, for example. So you take that 88 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: constant of lights the speed of light in a vacuum, 89 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: and you square it, so a number that's already huge 90 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: gets huger. That huge number, by the way, in case 91 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 1: you're wondering, is two seven, four hundred fifty eight meters 92 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: per second. Squaring that, you get eight point nine nine 93 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,559 Speaker 1: times ten to the sixteen power. It's a big number. 94 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: So what that tells you if you look at that equation, 95 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: what that tells you is that a very tiny amount 96 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 1: of mass is equivalent to an enormous amount of energy, 97 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: and vice versa. An enormous amount of energy is equivalent 98 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: to a teeny tiny little bit of mass. So if 99 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: you were to have a physical process in which you 100 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: start with an atom and you split that atom, and 101 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: the two components of that split atom collectively have less 102 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: mass than the original atom, you can't destroy or create 103 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: energy or mass, but you can convert one to the other. 104 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: That mask gets converted into energy, essentially kinetic energy, which 105 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: gets converted into heat and then you get a whole 106 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: bunch of heat from it. Yeah, that's what Einstein had said. 107 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: He says, this is this is the way the universe works. 108 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: Energy and mass ultimately the same thing. And then there 109 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: were if I recall, there were three broad historical reactions. 110 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: Some people said nah, some people said maybe, and a 111 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: lot of people went oh, yeah, exactly, yeah, and and 112 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: so this really uh, you know, we're gonna be telling 113 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: about a lot about two different types of scientists. Theoretical 114 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: scientists not they're not theoretical they work in the realm 115 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: of theory, and experimental scientists who take theory, apply experiments 116 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: to test those theories and then find out if the 117 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: results either bear the theorial or it needs to be 118 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: tweaked or whatever. Right, So, uh. In nineteen eleven we 119 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: get another important development by a discovery by a fellow 120 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: named Ernest Rutherford. Now, Rutherford proposes a model of the 121 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: atom in which you have a nucleus of positive particles 122 00:07:55,520 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: which are dubbed protons, and they're orbited by negatively charged 123 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: particles dubbed electrons. That's the Rutherford model of the atom. 124 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: And it's the simplest version question yes, just just for 125 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: you and the audience. I'm sure a lot of people 126 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: have wondered this when they were learning this. Why don't 127 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: you go with no trons, no tron's I mean that 128 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: sounds so much cooler because he was pro it's a 129 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: positive thing. Well, you know, like protons, electrons, protons, no trons. Oh, 130 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: I got you. But being being negative, those would be 131 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: the no trons because electrons are the agent through which 132 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: electricity is. You know, it's a matter of priority, and 133 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: that transcends a matter of marketing. But I'm saying, well, 134 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: we could even go back to the fact that Benjamin 135 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: Franklin was convinced that current means that that's the movement 136 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: of positively charged particles from one point to the other, 137 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 1: which is why current flows in the opposite direction of 138 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: actual electricity, which, by the way, it drives me crazy. 139 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,719 Speaker 1: You know you've talked about it before, and which, by 140 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: the way, I think we could cut to the end 141 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: of the show because this means clearly that nuclear weapons 142 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: are should be the blame for those should be eight 143 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: at the at the field of Benjamin Franklin, like so 144 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: many things, the bad guy. But anyway, yeah, so Ernest Rutherford. 145 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: So he discovers this, He creates this model, and then 146 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: Neil's Bore, another important physicist, He refines that model. He 147 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: starts to concentrate on the quantum behavior of electrons, and 148 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: that's where we get the Bore model of Adams. And 149 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: then I'm going to skip ahead to nineteen nineteen, and 150 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: that's when Rutherford transmutes nitrogen into oxygen. This is something 151 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: that alchemists had been attempting to do for centuries, although 152 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: their form of transportation was more about lead into gold sure, sure, 153 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 1: or the philosopher's stone or whatever. But this is an 154 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: actual transmutation. This is a point where Rutherford uh crosses. 155 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: I don't want to say it as though he's like 156 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: doing something bad, but where he where he goes from 157 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: just a theory to the application the way we're talking 158 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: about demonstrating it in the real world, and uh this 159 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: triggers even more changes in our right. So, the way 160 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: he does this is he takes some nitrogen atoms and 161 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: he bombards them with something called alpha particles, and alpha 162 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: particles essentially, although he didn't know this yet, an alpha 163 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 1: particle is essentially two protons and two neutrons, also known 164 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: as a heli helium nucleus. So if you use a 165 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: helium nucleus, if you strip away the electrons, what you're 166 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: left with is essentially an alpha particle, and he but 167 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: bards these nitrogen adoms with that. That's what converts it 168 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: over into oxygen. So then we skip ahead by a 169 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: couple of decades, are well, a little more than a 170 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: decade to ninety two. Yes, this is when James Chadwick, 171 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: who was one of Rutherford's colleagues, discovers the nucleus of 172 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: an adom can, by the way, big year in physics. Yeah, 173 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: so he discovers that the nucleus of an adom can 174 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: also contain particles that have no charge at all, hanging out. 175 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: They're just they're they're they're kind of like that roommate 176 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: I used to have, who you know. I felt like, 177 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:08,719 Speaker 1: come on, dude, just just pay your part of the 178 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: utilities already, come on. I'm sorry. I wasn't gonna be so. Yeah, 179 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: these are these are neutral. That's that's the neutrons. And 180 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 1: by this time there was an understanding now that the 181 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: atoms typically consisted of protons and neutrons and the nucleus 182 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 1: and orbited by a number of electrons that were equal 183 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: to the number of protons, and that's what balances out 184 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: the charge. There's a but oh, let's infomercial it. But wait, 185 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: there's more. There is more. Two things that you can 186 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,599 Speaker 1: you can talk about, one which is really important in 187 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: nuclear physics, and one which is not going to really 188 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: play a part. One is that being that if you 189 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: have an atom that has an excess or of electrons 190 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: or too few electrons, it's an UH. It's an ion 191 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 1: of that particular atom. But you can also have a 192 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: different number of neutrons from the protons. You can have 193 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 1: a variety of them, and we call these different varieties 194 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: of these various atoms isotopes. So an isotope of an 195 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: atom is UH is a version of that atom that 196 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 1: has a specific number of neutrons. So that's important to 197 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: remember now. At the time when Chadwick made this discovery, 198 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: hydrogen was the the the lightest, the least massive of 199 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: all the elements at one, and the heaviest or the 200 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: one with the most mass was uranium at ninety two. 201 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: That number refers to the number of protons in the atom, 202 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: not the number of neutrons. So chemists had discovered that 203 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 1: the atoms of the of the same elements sometimes had 204 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,359 Speaker 1: different weights. This is what led to the discovery of isotopes. 205 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: So they'd say, oh, well, here's a uranium atom, but 206 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: we've got this other uranium atom, and they they're chemically identical. 207 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: They're exactly the same chemically, but this other one's a 208 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: little heavier than this One's what gives what that doesn't 209 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: make sense, and that's where they discovered isotopes. So uranium 210 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: has three isotopes. All of them have ninety two protons 211 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: and ninety two electrons, because if they didn't, it wouldn't 212 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: be uranium. But it does have a different number of neutrons. 213 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: So you've got uranium two three eight. That's the most 214 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: common form of uranium found in nature. It has a 215 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: hundred forty six neutrons in the nucleus and it's nine 216 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: It makes up all natural uranium. So when you when 217 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: you go uranium hunting, odds are you going to find 218 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: you two thirty eight. Then you have uranium two thirty five, 219 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: which has a hundred forty three neutrons, and uranium two 220 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: thirty four, which has a hundred forty two neutrons, and 221 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: you two thirty five will become incredibly important in its discussion, 222 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: and you two thirty four is one of the decay products, right, yeah. Yeah. 223 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: So also in nineteen thirty two going on at the 224 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: same time, you had physicists J. D. Crow Croft and E. T. S. 225 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: Walton split a lithium atom into two helium nuclei. Uh, 226 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: the the protons and neutrons I was talking about by 227 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: bombarding the lithium with protons using a particle accelerator. And 228 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: this is the first example of someone splitting the atom 229 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: the very first time. Yeah, it is. In my opinion, 230 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: this is up there with the first human footfall on 231 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: the move. Yeah. This fundamentally changes everything, and it's strange 232 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: that we don't hear more people talk about it. Yeah, 233 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: a lot of people will talk about the early work 234 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: in nuclear fission, which we will get to, which happened 235 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: in a place that precipitated the need for ment projects. 236 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: So in California, same time as everything else, you had 237 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: a group with ernest O. Lawrence who will be incredibly 238 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: important in this conversation, Stanley Livingston and Milton White who 239 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: operated the first cyclotron on the Berkeley campus of the 240 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: University of California, and Lawrence would end up playing an 241 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: instrumental role in the Manhattan Project. Yeah. No, uh. For 242 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: everyone is wondering a cyclotron, it is a particle accelerator, 243 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: right right. It was this is the era where we 244 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: start getting the earliest particle accelerators. The Vandergraf would build 245 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: one as well, in a different style. Uh. And Lawrence 246 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: was was working on this early and not with the 247 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: goal of nuclear fission necessarily. It was part of particle 248 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: physics to understand more about the fundamental particles that make 249 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: up all the stuff around us. Uh. And it ultimately 250 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: would end up being used to help create the material 251 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: for nuclear weapons. Um. But at the time no one 252 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: had any concept of doing that. Ninety three there were 253 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: some early attempts to find a reliable way to split atoms, 254 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: but they're largely unsuc sccessful or very inefficient. They require 255 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: huge amounts of power. And I'll tell you why. Most 256 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: of them used protons fired at an atomic nucleus. So 257 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: here's the thing. Protons have a positive charge. Correct. Atomic 258 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: nucleus also has a positive charge because it's only made 259 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: up of protons and neutrons, So we are positive and positive. 260 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: So what happens if you put two ends, like two 261 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: northern ends of two different magnets together against each other. Yeah, 262 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: they do. It's uh, you know a lot like me 263 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: and Josh Clark, we just despite the fact we sit 264 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: right next to each other, there's just this repulsion. It's 265 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: the other one. It's kind of amazing, like, you know, 266 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: like if I start walking towards Josh's chair just rolls 267 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: the other way. Now, Josh and I get along just fine. 268 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: Obviously he was just recently on the episode tech Stuff, 269 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: so um. But yeah, it was really hard to get 270 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: a direct hit on a nucleus because of this these 271 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: light charges repelling one another. In fact, there were some 272 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: estimates that said that it only happened one every one 273 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 1: million tries non efficient way to split at him. So 274 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: while people were starting to think there might be a 275 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: way of getting some energy from this, like to use 276 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: this as a means of generating power or perhaps even 277 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: creating a weapon down the line, the efficiency was so 278 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 1: low that it didn't seem like it was going to 279 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:29,719 Speaker 1: be uh a viable exactly, Like it's a good proof 280 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: of concept. Yeah, So Albert Einstein, Niels Bore, and Rutherford 281 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: all felt that the process would be great for getting 282 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: a better understanding of nuclear physics, but would remain impractical 283 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: for pretty much anything else. Now, Rutherford actually described the 284 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: idea of harnessing nuclear energy as moonshine. That was what 285 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: he called it. Einstein His version was saying, it's like 286 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: the ability to get a proton to to collide with 287 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: the nucleus would be akin to walking into an enormous 288 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: room that's pitch black and shooting at a couple of 289 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: birds flying around randomly through the right. Yeah, that was 290 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: his his comparison. Is no way to make it not 291 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: an accident, right and heels Boor said, it's pretty much 292 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: a long shot unless we figure out something else. And 293 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 1: then you had another fellow, a Hungarian physicist who was 294 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: living in the United States, Leo sciss Lard, and sciss 295 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: Lard hypothesized that if you use something else, not protons, 296 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: what have you used a beam of neutrons aimed at 297 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: an atom because neutrons have no charge, so it doesn't matter, 298 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: there's no repulsion there. Yeah, The only thing is that 299 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,959 Speaker 1: how do you shoot a non charged particle? Because if 300 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 1: you're using protons, then all you can do all you 301 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: have to do is created a positive charge to repel 302 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: it or a negative charge to attract it and move 303 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: it that way, but a neutral one is a little trickier. Um. 304 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: But he thought, if you could do this, and if 305 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: the atom was large enough, it had its own neutrons, 306 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: sometimes when the atom splits up, it might give off 307 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: neutrons too. And if it gives off neutrons with enough 308 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: energy and you have enough atoms there, those neutrons could 309 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: collide with other atoms, which could cause them to break apart, 310 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: and those neutrons could go out and hit other atoms, 311 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,880 Speaker 1: and each time you would be multiplying this effect. As 312 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: long as you had more than one neutron being given 313 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: off and as long as those were colliding with some 314 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: other atoms, this trend would continue until you were out 315 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,959 Speaker 1: of stuff or the neutrons, or there just weren't enough 316 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: atoms for the neutrons to make contact, and you would 317 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: get a nuclear chain reaction which you could use to 318 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: either power or a city or blow one up. Yes, yes, 319 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: at that point they you know, the next question becomes like, well, yes, 320 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: at that point, the next question becomes a matter of control, 321 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: because you know it's all well and good from an 322 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: academic for suspective to say, oh, guys, look at this 323 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: neat thing that we think we can do. And then, 324 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: you know, for someone to say, okay, well let's let's 325 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: try it. Let's get the rubber on the road, and 326 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 1: then what do you think is going to happen? And 327 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: they say, well, one or two things. It's either going 328 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: to power the city or blow it up, right, but 329 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: we're pretty confident it's going to be one of those two. 330 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: So the next question is like, how do you make 331 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 1: this useful? Right? And for Leo, I'm gonna call Leo 332 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: because I'm just gonna Putcher his last name over otherwise, uh, 333 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: the Hungarian physicist. Uh. For Leo, the problem was that 334 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: when he was first trying this out, he was using 335 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: lighter atoms and he couldn't get these sustained reactions, so 336 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 1: he kind of he kind of thought, well, I guess 337 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: that's a bust. It seemed like a good idea, but 338 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,719 Speaker 1: it's not working. So so so there it became an 339 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: academic question for a while because there was they weren't 340 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: He wasn't using the heavier atoms which would have created 341 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,919 Speaker 1: a sustainable reaction. They would have been dense enough to 342 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: have that impact. Right, they don't decay in the same 343 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: way that other other ones might just take on the neutron, 344 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: and they wouldn't split apart in other words, So moving 345 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: on with four, we get another fellow who becomes very 346 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:16,239 Speaker 1: important in Manhattan Project, Enrico Fermi, an Italian physicist. He 347 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: begins to use neutrons to bobard atoms, and he figured 348 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: the uncharged particles wouldn't meet that same resistance as protons, 349 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: just as Leo had. He was right. He bombarded sixty 350 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: three different stable elements with neutrons and created thirty seven 351 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: new radioactive atoms. And he also found out that if 352 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: he used carbon and hydrogen, he could actually slow the 353 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: movement of the neutrons a little bit, and that would 354 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,160 Speaker 1: actually increase the chances of a nucleus accepting a new neutron. 355 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: So you wanted to fire the neutrons fast, but not 356 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 1: too fast. You had to you had to control that. 357 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: Uh So he then bombarded uranium with neutrons. Had created something, 358 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: but he had no idea what it was. In fact, 359 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: no one was really sure at the time. There was 360 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: a lot of disagreement in the scientific community about whatever 361 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: Fermi had made, they were like, because it was new, 362 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: and because it was new, they didn't know, right. So yeah, 363 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 1: so they were wondering if it was transuranic, as in 364 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: a man made element that would not be found in nature, 365 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: or if Fermi had somehow managed to split up uranium 366 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: so that behave like lighter elements, because some of the 367 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,239 Speaker 1: stuff that was left over it seemed really similar to 368 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 1: lighter elements on the elemental table. But how could that be? 369 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: It's certainly not magic. Yeah, And it's funny because he 370 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: had actually achieved nuclear fission but did not know it. 371 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: He didn't he didn't understand it enough to know that 372 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: that's what had happened at the time. And that takes 373 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 1: us to eight. And this is the event that really 374 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: creates the need for the Manhattan Project because it takes 375 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:58,360 Speaker 1: place in Berlin. Now eight in Berlin, it was already 376 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: a very tumultuous time in up right. World War two 377 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: had not yet begun, but Germany had started to really 378 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: cause huge problems, including uh, cracking down on the Jewish 379 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: population already. Uh, and it was you know, the whole 380 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: Germany Austrian alliance was was an issue. And then there 381 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: were rumblings about Germany possibly invading other countries and then 382 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: also spreading to you know, Italy as well. Yes, Italy 383 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: was also invading African nations at the time, so this 384 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: was really a tumultuous period. So in Berlin, UH, Germany 385 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: was a place where there where particle physics, theoretical physics 386 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: had really blossomed at the end of the nineteenth century 387 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: beginning of the twentieth century, and you had a collection 388 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: of scientists who all were just interested in furthering our 389 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: understanding of the universe. They just happened to be in 390 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: a place where that understanding was going to be uh 391 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: tilted toward the ends of the German government. So radiochemists 392 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: Auto Han and Fritz Strassman, we're using Ferms method of 393 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 1: bombarding atoms with neutrons, and they found that uranium nuclei, 394 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 1: unlike other nuclei, didn't just absorb the neutrons. They broke 395 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: apart into two more or less equal pieces. They became 396 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: fragments of uranium and radioactive barrium isotopes, which explained why 397 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: some of the substances from firm's experiments resembled lighter elements 398 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: because they were they were barium. So that was the 399 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: the scientific explanation of what was going on with Fermi 400 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: and Firm. He's like, huh, that's interesting. Um. What's also 401 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 1: interesting is that this information because you know, it also 402 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: released some energy. Uh. This information was examined by Lease 403 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: Mightner and her nephew Otto Frish. Uh. Mightner was a 404 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: Jewish exile. She had fled Austria and was living in 405 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 1: Sweden and was working with Han and Strassmann through correspondence 406 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: UM and she and Fresh looked at the results of 407 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: the experiments and concluded that they released an enormous amount 408 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: of energy and that this marked a new type of 409 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 1: process which was explained by the equals MC squared equation. 410 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: So again we see a physical proof of a theoretical proposition. Right. 411 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: And this also started bringing to light, Hey, maybe we 412 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,479 Speaker 1: should really take that Einstein equation thing really seriously. Um. 413 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: So Fresh was the one who called the process fission. 414 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: That's where we get nuclear fission was from Otto Frish's 415 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 1: description of the of of this. He was taking um 416 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: inspiration from biological processes and cell division, so that's where 417 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: he came up with fission. And just to just to 418 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,680 Speaker 1: interject not too much of the political endscape. But I 419 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: do think it's important to note a big thing happened 420 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 1: happened to for me in thirty eight as well. Why 421 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: don't you tell me about that? Well, in ninety eight 422 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: he left Italy to uh receive his Nobel Prize in physics, 423 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: which is, uh, you know, it's a pretty good deal. 424 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: It's like when you get that tenth stamp on your 425 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: subway card. Oh, I was thinking, like, you finally get 426 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: that star on the on the Walk of Fame. Yeah, yeah, 427 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: you finally get the star of which I think I 428 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: don't remember which subway stamp that is. No, it's it's 429 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: like I think you gotta go like at least twelve times. Oh, man, 430 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,199 Speaker 1: come on, that's a commitment. Anyway. Well, somehow I'm going 431 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: to go out on a limb and say it's because 432 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: he was a genius, uh, and the based on his 433 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: discoveries for me, leaves Italy to receive the Nobel Prize, 434 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: and he never returns because you know, at the time, 435 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: as you know to your earlier point, the situation in 436 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: Europe is at a slow boil, and especially if you 437 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: are Jewish, as for me, is this is uh, this 438 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: is a time where you can, like legoists smell a 439 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: fell wind. Yeah, there's actually there's a I mean, if 440 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: you and I'm sure I know I've talked about this 441 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 1: in a previous episode. I can't remember what the subject was, 442 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: but I remember specifically talking about um uh German scientists, 443 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: German and Austrian scientists who fled Europe in advance of 444 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,199 Speaker 1: the rise of the Nazi Party in Germany. UH and 445 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: then some who stuck around believing that things would get better, 446 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 1: only to find out that in fact was not the case. 447 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: And how despite their brilliance and their contributions to science, 448 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: because of their their heritage, they were treated they were 449 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: you know, they were pulled away from their work, some 450 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: of them, of them were imprisoned. Um. And of course 451 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: there's a whole other story we could talk about with 452 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: the United States liberating certain scientists to work for them 453 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: instead of for the Nazis. That might be, it might 454 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: be a little bit. That is definitely a different, too 455 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 1: far different. That's actually more in rocketry than it is 456 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: with the Manse. But at any rate, so nine our 457 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: buddy Leo, he realizes the work by Han and Strassmann 458 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: could be the answer to his failures to produce a 459 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 1: nuclear chain reaction, and that uranium would be heavy enough 460 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: and couldmit neutrons at an energy great enough to cause 461 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 1: a split in another atom. So if you had enough uranium, 462 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: you could presumably create a nuclear chain reaction that way. 463 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: Uh So this is this renews his interest in the 464 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: possibility of creating one of these. Um He actually asked 465 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: that for me and Frederick Jolie Currie refrain from publishing 466 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: their findings. He asks them not to publish them because 467 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: since he's made this realization that a nuclear chain reaction 468 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: could be possible, his fear is that if they publish 469 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: their findings, the Nazis will hear about it, and because 470 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: the initial study was done in Berlin, they could end 471 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: up putting this on the fast track to developing a 472 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: weapons program, which would change the course of the war. Yeah, 473 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: which keep in mind, this is when the war officially begins, 474 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: right when you know when the World War two start, Well, 475 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: people would say that's when Germany invaded Poland, and that's 476 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: that happens in the ninety nine. So he asks them 477 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: not to publish their findings. Now. Fermi says okay and 478 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: holds off, but Curie goes ahead and publishes his work 479 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: in April nineteen thirty nine. So it turns out those 480 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: concerns were warranted. To Leo turns to the the rock 481 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: star of rock stars, because keep in mind, this is 482 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: an era when scientists had a certain prestige among the public. 483 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: I mean, this is the era of people like Tesla 484 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: making headlines and Edison, and meanwhile you've got other scientists 485 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: and engineers who are capturing the imagination of hundreds of 486 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: thousands of people. He turns to the most influential of 487 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: them all, good old Einstein, and Leo says, to al 488 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: listen here about Bubby. Uh that equation you made awesome. 489 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: Turns out you're right. Problem now we know how to 490 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: make a practical application of that. Potentially it's gonna take 491 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: some years. But the Germans are already aware of this, 492 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: and you know how bad the Germans can be. We're 493 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: having this conversation not in Germany. And when I say Germans, 494 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: obviously I'm talking about the Nazi Party. I have nothing 495 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: against Germans at any rate. So he says, we need 496 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: to convince the United States government that we have to 497 00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: get on this right now, because if we don't, they 498 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: will and then that's just gonna be domination for Germany. 499 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: And so Einstein, convinced by Leo, decides to write a 500 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: letter to President Roosevelt Fdr not not Teddy. So he 501 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: writes a letter to Roosevelt and expresses their concerns about 502 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: the possibility of a nuclear weapon program starting in Germany 503 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: and arguing that, uh, the United States really has to 504 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: take that into consideration. Uh. The letter is sent in 505 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 1: August ninety nine, and on September one, ninety nine, Germany 506 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: invades Poland. World War two begins officially because that's when 507 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: you get other nations in Europe declaring war against Germany. 508 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: So Roosevelt has a meeting with his close friend and 509 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: unofficial advisor, Alexander Sachs, who's not a politician, he's a 510 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: financial advisor type. Saxon Roosevelt sit down and on October eleventh, 511 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: ninety nine, they talk about Einstein's letter. On October nineteenth, 512 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: Roosevelt writes back to Einstein and says he has formed 513 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: a committee made up of representatives from the Army and 514 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: the Navy plus Sacks to research uranium. Yeah. The Advisory 515 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: Committee on Uranium, headed by Lyman J. Briggs. Yeah, Briggs 516 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: would become another important figure in this in this story 517 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: that is formed officially on October twenty one, nineteen thirty nine. 518 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: So this happens fast, right, They talk about on the eleventh. 519 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: On the nineteenth he writes back to Einstein. On the 520 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: twenty one, this new committee meets for the first time. Uh. Briggs, 521 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: by the way, was the former director of the National 522 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: Bureau of Standards. Now you get Feremi and Leo concentrating 523 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: on using carbon in the form of graphite to slow 524 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: down neutrons in a pile of you two thirty eight, 525 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: and by slowing down the neutrons, they hope to increase 526 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: the chances of a chain reaction. But they discovered that 527 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: that method would really only be suitable for probably generating 528 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: power because it would require too large a form factor 529 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: to make an effective bomb out of it. The uranium 530 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: didn't react at a level fast enough for it to 531 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: be an explosive release of power. So for me thought, 532 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: the chances of this being useful in a weapon are 533 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: pretty slim, but it could be a really useful way 534 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: of generating electricity. Now, meanwhile, Uh, if we moved to 535 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: nineteen forty physicists were starting to run into a problem. 536 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: Uranium two thirty eight was not prone to creating these 537 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: nuclear chain reactions. They were, they were having issues with this, 538 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 1: and that's the most common when that's the one that 539 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: is of the world's uranium. Right, So here's your stuff, 540 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: but it don't work. It would be like imagine that 541 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: you you have, you know, a big battery drawer, and 542 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: those batteries have just a little juice in them. They're 543 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: not enough for you to like, you know, you put 544 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: them in your RC car and your car just goes 545 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: you know, I hate that. But there still out there. Yeah, 546 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 1: and some of that is uranium two thirty five, but 547 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 1: it's it's usually wrapped up in you two thirty eight. 548 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: It's not you know, it's not like you just find 549 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: little veins of YouTube five out there. So John Are 550 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: Dunning observed that uranium two thirty five appeared to be 551 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 1: a lot more promising, but only if you could separate 552 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: it from you two thirty eight. So now they're they're thinking, well, 553 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: if there's some way for us to separate these isotopes 554 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 1: from two thirty five from two thirty eight and concentrate 555 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: enough to thirty five and one spot, we might be 556 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 1: able to create a nuclear reaction chain reaction that is 557 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,800 Speaker 1: sustainable until a significant amount of that fuel is converted 558 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 1: into energy, in which case you would have either a 559 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:54,439 Speaker 1: big boom or a sustained power source. So we're going 560 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: for the boom. Yes, so without enriching you, two thirty 561 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: five is pretty much impossible to experience. Meant further, they 562 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: didn't have a way of doing this like they figure 563 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: well to thirty five according to the math is better. 564 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: Here's the problem. I don't know how to get the 565 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 1: two thirty five out from the two yet right in 566 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: a way that would come across come up with more 567 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: than just microscopic amounts of and we're talking about the 568 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: need for kims of the stuff. So it's a problem. 569 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: It was also in ninety that the Advisory Committee on 570 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 1: Uranium recommended that the government fund research into isotope separation 571 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: and nuclear chain reactions, which the committee did. So separating 572 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 1: two from two thirty five was hard. They're chemically identical, 573 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: so you can't use chemistry to do it because they're 574 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: going to react exactly the same way they're coming. Masses 575 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 1: differ by less than one per cent, so finding a 576 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: way of separating them by mass is also a little tricky. 577 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: But one of the more promising methods was the electro 578 00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: magnetic method. Now, this meant that you would create a 579 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: magnetic field generated by a mass spectrometer to separate particles, 580 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 1: and essentially you create a magnetic field, and yeah, I 581 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: had the particles come into contact with that magnetic field. 582 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,760 Speaker 1: The magnetic field would deflect particles. Particles that had greater 583 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: mass would be deflected a shorter distance. Yeah, because I 584 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,359 Speaker 1: can't push those as far right. So you could do 585 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,720 Speaker 1: this and deflect those particles. But it wasn't exactly fast. 586 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: In nineteen forty they estimated that to create a gram 587 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: of you two thirty five using a mass spectrometer in 588 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 1: this way, if you took you two thirty eight and 589 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: two thirty five together and tried to just get one 590 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: gram of you two thirty five, it would take you 591 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: approximately twenty seven thousand years. Not not like not the 592 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 1: ideal time frame. Not if you wanted to respond to 593 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:56,319 Speaker 1: escalating aggression in Europe, not not so much seven years. 594 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 1: Probably some multiple conflicts would have had happened and resolved 595 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: during that time. I mean, I think Hitler, who was 596 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: admittedly an ambitious dude was only planning on the ranch 597 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: itself to be like a thousand years. Yeah, so it 598 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 1: would have been a pretty it would have been a 599 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 1: pretty long long bet on the boy. We would have 600 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: been embarrassingly late to the party. Yes, So there were 601 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 1: other ones too that they were looking into. One of 602 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,280 Speaker 1: them was Gassiest diffusion, which I have suffered from myself 603 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: an occasion to say thank you. Gassiest diffusion was that's 604 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: where you would use a porous barrier and you would 605 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: use gas that has you two thirty eight and YouTube 606 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 1: thirty five atoms in it to pass through this porous barrier. Now, 607 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: the Youto thirty five, being of less mass, would pass 608 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,919 Speaker 1: more readily through the barrier. So you would do this 609 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 1: once and then the mixture you would have would have 610 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: a higher concentration of You two thirty five than the 611 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: previous one did because fewer of the Youto thirty eight 612 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: would have gone through. But then you have to repeat 613 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 1: the process, and you repeat the process over and over 614 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 1: and over again. It's kind of like passing a solution 615 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: through a filter, and each pass the filter catches more 616 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,240 Speaker 1: and more of the stuff you don't want and allows 617 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 1: the stuff you do want to go through, but it's 618 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 1: not fool proof. That's why you have to keep on 619 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 1: doing it the process, so again not terribly efficient. John 620 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,799 Speaker 1: Dunning focused on that particular method. Then you also had 621 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 1: the possibility of using centrifuges and a centrifuge, you know 622 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: it essentially it spins a round and a round and 623 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: around us a centrifugal force or tripital force if you prefer, 624 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 1: but centrifical force to to separate out materials. The heavier 625 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: materials sink to one end, the lighter materials are pushed 626 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: to the top. So in this case you two thirty 627 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 1: five would be kind of at the top and center 628 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: of the centrifuge, and the U two three it would 629 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: be would it sinkle down lower and you would skim 630 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: it off the top. Centrifuges however, at the time not 631 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:54,359 Speaker 1: terribly reliable. That was headed off by a guy named 632 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,479 Speaker 1: Jesse W. Beams at the University of Virginia. We're gonna 633 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 1: get into the politics, and there's a guy I have 634 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: a feeling that he's come up and stuff they don't 635 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 1: want you to know. Maybe once or twice have you 636 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: guys ever talked about Vanavar Bush. We have talked about 637 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 1: Vanavar Bush. He is a He was an American engineer 638 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: and inventor. He headed the U S Office of Scientific 639 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 1: Research and Development. Uh and he was one of the 640 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 1: early uh now, well, okay, he was the go to 641 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: guy from military R and D at the time in 642 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,279 Speaker 1: the US. He was also kind of like the liaison 643 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: between the politicians and the scientists. That's a great way 644 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 1: to put it, because he had the analytical scientific mind. 645 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 1: He had the chops that would be required for a scientist. 646 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,279 Speaker 1: Again like rock Star to respect you. He's incredibly ambitious 647 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 1: as well as effective at maneuvering through different power structures. 648 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: Like this guy was like he could get stuff done 649 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:04,240 Speaker 1: and no offense to the a various stereotypes of scientists. 650 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 1: But he probably was better at playing the game of diplomacy. Yeah, yeah, 651 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: because he was he knew he understood how that particular 652 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:18,359 Speaker 1: science worked. So he was the president of the Carnegie 653 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: Foundation and then was appointed the head of the National 654 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 1: Defense Research Committee, which was a voice within the executive 655 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:31,280 Speaker 1: branch of government. And under that the Uranium Committee was reorganized. 656 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 1: So the Uranium Committee gets uh kind of a new version, 657 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:42,480 Speaker 1: a new yeah kind of mission statement. Um and and 658 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,080 Speaker 1: also meant that it was no longer organized under the 659 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,319 Speaker 1: military department, so it didn't have to Yeah, I meant 660 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: they could get their funding outside of the military. So 661 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 1: instead of the Army or the Navy deciding all right, 662 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,800 Speaker 1: we're going to allocate this much of our budget towards 663 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 1: uranium research, it was an independent organization underneath this new 664 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,880 Speaker 1: committee um So Bush allocated funds to continuing research in 665 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: nuclear power and weapons. But he made some decisions that 666 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: ended up um really shaping the direction that the Manhattan 667 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 1: Project would move in. The first decision he made was 668 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,840 Speaker 1: that no one on the committee would be allowed to 669 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,720 Speaker 1: be foreign born. No foreign born scientists would be allowed 670 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 1: on the committee. That ment Einstein was not part of 671 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,760 Speaker 1: this part. He also barred the publication of scientific findings 672 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:39,360 Speaker 1: on uranium research for an indetermined amount of time because again, 673 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: like like the the Leo's previous concerns, he didn't want 674 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,359 Speaker 1: this any other discoveries to make their way across into 675 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,799 Speaker 1: enemy hands. So now we're getting up to nineteen forty one, 676 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,960 Speaker 1: World War two is in full swing in Europe. Uh 677 00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,840 Speaker 1: Glen T. S Borg, another important person identifies element ninety 678 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,239 Speaker 1: four a trans uranium or man made element that was 679 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,879 Speaker 1: produced from radioactive decay of an isotope of neptunium. Neptunium 680 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: is also a trans uranium element, that's ninety three, so 681 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:18,319 Speaker 1: ninety four he gets to name it. I call it plutonium. Yeah, 682 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,000 Speaker 1: And he discovers that one of the features of plutonium 683 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,880 Speaker 1: is that's one point seven times more likely to undergo 684 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: fission as uranium two thirty five. It loves fission, yeah, 685 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 1: to thirty five, loves fission more than two thirty eight. 686 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 1: Plutonium loves fission more than uranium two thirty five. So 687 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 1: the experiments took place at Ernest Lawrence's radiation laboratory at Berkeley. 688 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: So Lawrence again very important here. Lawrence personally felt that 689 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,759 Speaker 1: the uranium Committee was a little slow, that it was 690 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 1: not responding fast enough, it wasn't funding the research. Uh, 691 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: And so he met with Vanavar Bush and then Bush 692 00:42:54,200 --> 00:43:01,319 Speaker 1: saw Lawrence as being really persuasive and and influential, So 693 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,880 Speaker 1: he makes Lawrence an adviser to Briggs. You know, Briggs 694 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,239 Speaker 1: was the head of that uranium committee. And so once 695 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,200 Speaker 1: that happens, suddenly the coffers opened up a little bit 696 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:16,040 Speaker 1: more and more research gets funded. Uh. Vanavar Bush also 697 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,400 Speaker 1: created a committee to report on the Uranian program in 698 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,560 Speaker 1: the US, and he put Arthur Compton, who was a 699 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,319 Speaker 1: physicist who specialized in radiation studies, in charge of it. 700 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 1: So Compton makes a report in May nineteen forty one 701 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,400 Speaker 1: and confirmed that either you two thirty five or plutonium 702 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:36,080 Speaker 1: were the most likely candidates for some sort of atomic weapon. Yes. Uh. 703 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: And on June forty one, the United States establishes the 704 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: Office of Scientific Research and Development. This is the one 705 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 1: you referred to as Bush being of the head of it. 706 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,279 Speaker 1: This is when it was officially made a thing was 707 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,360 Speaker 1: officially Yeah, we we had talked to I think and 708 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,839 Speaker 1: stuff that I want you to know about about that time, 709 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 1: just a few days before this is actually was a 710 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:59,239 Speaker 1: few days after the twenty two when Germany invaded the 711 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 1: Soviet un. Yes. So various things are hitting various fans right, 712 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,799 Speaker 1: the big one being that there is a lot of 713 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:13,759 Speaker 1: incentive to push this research through. Uh. Meanwhile, James B. Conant, 714 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,360 Speaker 1: who was president of Harvard, became the new head of 715 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:20,000 Speaker 1: the National Defense Research Committee, which was now an advisory 716 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,040 Speaker 1: board that would offer guidance on research and development funding 717 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,520 Speaker 1: and guys, we know how didn't I not to interject 718 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: too much, becauys, we know how confusing it can be 719 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,799 Speaker 1: to hear these very long, dry names of committees. But 720 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,359 Speaker 1: part of this, part of all this restructuring, to hear 721 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 1: about and all these names, comes because they were desperately 722 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:48,799 Speaker 1: trying to find the best way to approach this problem. Uh, 723 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:53,480 Speaker 1: simply because can you imagine. Of course, there were, of 724 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:57,440 Speaker 1: course there were agents from what would become the Allies 725 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:02,040 Speaker 1: in Germany at the time time. However, the level of 726 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:06,040 Speaker 1: access they had was no guarantee. The only way to 727 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,960 Speaker 1: be there was, the only way to know that you 728 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,800 Speaker 1: would not be the victim of a nuclear bomb or 729 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,320 Speaker 1: an atomic weapon was to be first passed the post. 730 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,920 Speaker 1: So this stuff is I mean, Jonathan, there were probably 731 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,520 Speaker 1: some egos involved. Oh no, there are tons of ego. 732 00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,839 Speaker 1: But I think I think the I think the main 733 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:27,920 Speaker 1: thing to remember is that although we hear all these 734 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,480 Speaker 1: dry names, what they're really doing is desperately and it 735 00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,840 Speaker 1: dues that were correctly desperately trying to find the way 736 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,960 Speaker 1: to get massive amounts of funding because they already know 737 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,080 Speaker 1: it's going to be an expensive surchace. Well that and 738 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:47,520 Speaker 1: and at this stage in we're still talking theory, we're 739 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 1: still we're still saying that they're saying, if such a 740 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,920 Speaker 1: thing as possible, you too, and plutonium are our best bets. 741 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,760 Speaker 1: That's a great point. We can't guarantee it's possible. If yeah, 742 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,839 Speaker 1: And that's the thing is that you gut that's why 743 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,080 Speaker 1: you have all this research and development going in And 744 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 1: they're going through multiple lines of inquiry, right because they 745 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:08,959 Speaker 1: don't want to say, well, let's just look at one 746 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,160 Speaker 1: and hope that that is going to work out. There's 747 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,080 Speaker 1: no let's look at all of them and find out 748 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,400 Speaker 1: which ones are the most promising and concentrate on those. 749 00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:20,359 Speaker 1: So uh so Coma is head of this board that's 750 00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:25,160 Speaker 1: going to look at these different um proposals and decide 751 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:29,080 Speaker 1: which ones are the ones most the most warrant additional funding. 752 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,360 Speaker 1: So if you are the head of a research department 753 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,560 Speaker 1: it's a Columbia university, you're more likely to receive funding 754 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,480 Speaker 1: than if you're some Yahoo in your backyard saying if 755 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:44,080 Speaker 1: I smack these two rocks together, sparks fly. So that's 756 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,480 Speaker 1: the important part that this is all about. Like the 757 00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,440 Speaker 1: goal here is pushing forward this research so under this 758 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,800 Speaker 1: new organization, the Uranium Committee becomes the Office of Scientific 759 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,479 Speaker 1: Research and Development Section on Uranium. And that's a really 760 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,600 Speaker 1: long name, and they iognized it, so they code named 761 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:07,160 Speaker 1: it S one. So as one becomes this specific committee 762 00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,879 Speaker 1: that's looking at uranium research, can it be used as 763 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,719 Speaker 1: a way of making a weapon? July one, a group 764 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:19,640 Speaker 1: in Britain's National Defense Research Committee, which was codenamed MAUD 765 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:23,760 Speaker 1: in a U d uh. They they their whole purpose 766 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:25,880 Speaker 1: was again to look and see if a nuclear weapon 767 00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,480 Speaker 1: could be practical. They submitted a report that, based upon 768 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,839 Speaker 1: their calculations, you could use ten ms of you two 769 00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 1: thirty five to create an enormously destructive bomb and that 770 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,239 Speaker 1: could be dropped by existing aircraft of the time, and 771 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 1: it would probably be two years out in development, like 772 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,839 Speaker 1: within two years of concentrate development, such a bomb could 773 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,720 Speaker 1: be built. So by ninety three Britain shares this report 774 00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:58,399 Speaker 1: with America, and because Britain recognizes that America has an 775 00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:06,480 Speaker 1: enormous resource in scientific expertise, so that report specifically recommended 776 00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,680 Speaker 1: using gaseous diffusion to separate you two thirty five from 777 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:14,160 Speaker 1: you two thirty eight and outright dismisses the idea of 778 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,759 Speaker 1: using plutonium. So the Brits say, you should use two 779 00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,520 Speaker 1: thirty five, You should use gaseous diffusion to get your 780 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,960 Speaker 1: two thirty five from two thirty eight, and forget about plutonium. 781 00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:29,200 Speaker 1: It's a dead end. That was their recommendation. So meanwhile 782 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,799 Speaker 1: you got fair Me who becomes the head of theoretical 783 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,560 Speaker 1: studies at the Uranium Committee. And keep in mind fair 784 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,960 Speaker 1: Me is the plutonium guy. Yeah. So there when you 785 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,360 Speaker 1: say there are probably egos involved, yes there were, and 786 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:46,840 Speaker 1: there were people who were absolutely convinced that their approach 787 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,520 Speaker 1: was the one that was going to be the most economical, 788 00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:55,440 Speaker 1: the most efficient, the most scientifically sound. So in these arguments, 789 00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,480 Speaker 1: do you think there are a lot of those you 790 00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:05,799 Speaker 1: fools moments? Just you fuse all be uh in dramatic 791 00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:11,279 Speaker 1: like nineteen thirties style dialects, Well, not nineteen forty one. 792 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,560 Speaker 1: In October, Bush meets with Roosevelt to discuss the state 793 00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,240 Speaker 1: of research. He receives instruction from Roosevelt to continue research 794 00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:23,360 Speaker 1: and development, but it was expressly told don't build a 795 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:28,280 Speaker 1: bomb until I tell you to, which was fine because 796 00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,319 Speaker 1: they were at least a few years away from being 797 00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,080 Speaker 1: able to build one in the first place, even under 798 00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:37,040 Speaker 1: ideal situation. November sixty one, Arthur Compton reports that, based 799 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,799 Speaker 1: on his calculations, a critical mass of YouTube you two 800 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:45,880 Speaker 1: thirty five between two and one rams would produce a 801 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:49,359 Speaker 1: powerful fission bomb uh and could be created with an 802 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,320 Speaker 1: investment of around fifty million to a hundred million dollars 803 00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:59,959 Speaker 1: in isotopes separation technologies, which turned out to be crazy optimistic. Yeah, 804 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,400 Speaker 1: so uh. Obviously the Brits come up with ten kilograms, 805 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,600 Speaker 1: and Arthur Compton says it's probably gonna be somewhere between 806 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:10,320 Speaker 1: two and a hundred. It's a slightly larger range. H 807 00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:14,360 Speaker 1: December seven, ninety one very important day in World War two. 808 00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:17,320 Speaker 1: That was the bombing of Pearl Harbor. It's when the 809 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,480 Speaker 1: Japanese attack Pearl Harbor that brings the United States into 810 00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,800 Speaker 1: World War Two and sets this all on an even 811 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:28,400 Speaker 1: faster track than it was before. So January nineteenth, nineteen 812 00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,759 Speaker 1: forty two, Roosevelt gives Vanavar Bush to go ahead to 813 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,680 Speaker 1: pursue the development of an atomic bomb. So we've gone 814 00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,800 Speaker 1: from keep on researching this to see if it's possible 815 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,279 Speaker 1: to build one of these, keeping in mind that we're 816 00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,040 Speaker 1: still working in the realm of theory. Yeah, and the 817 00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:48,200 Speaker 1: but the funding flight gates were open. They said, no 818 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,000 Speaker 1: more um figuring out how to do it now, that 819 00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,799 Speaker 1: just becomes a step in my mandate to you to 820 00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,680 Speaker 1: give me a working atomic bomb. And they form what 821 00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:04,640 Speaker 1: is called the Top Policy Committee, which was led by 822 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,719 Speaker 1: Vanavar Bush. They also had a vice president, Henry A. Wallace. 823 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,880 Speaker 1: James Knitt was part of it. Henry L. Stimpson, who 824 00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,040 Speaker 1: was the Secretary of War, was part of it, and 825 00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:17,200 Speaker 1: General George C. Marshall, who was Chief of Staff of 826 00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:19,680 Speaker 1: the Army, was part of it. And the Top Policy 827 00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:24,640 Speaker 1: Group decided to pursue five strategies, four different isotope isolation 828 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:30,040 Speaker 1: methods and the use of plutonium as the five different 829 00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,799 Speaker 1: methods of potentially creating an atomic bomb. The reason they 830 00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,840 Speaker 1: decided to look at five again was because none of 831 00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:41,560 Speaker 1: the five had so far emerged as the clear superior method. 832 00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,359 Speaker 1: So because they didn't know, they said, well, we would 833 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,040 Speaker 1: rather go ahead and have all these different groups, all 834 00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,759 Speaker 1: of which have brilliant engineers and physicists attached to them, 835 00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:56,040 Speaker 1: to independently work on this stuff. They're motivated by one 836 00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,640 Speaker 1: many of them come from Europe, and they see what's 837 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,799 Speaker 1: going on in World War two too. Many of them 838 00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,200 Speaker 1: have egos, and they want to prove that their method 839 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:08,160 Speaker 1: is the right one and three they're they're genuinely interested 840 00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:14,040 Speaker 1: in the science. So March of nineteen forty two, UH, Lawrence, 841 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,840 Speaker 1: the fellow who ran the cyclotron and Berkeley, pursues the 842 00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:23,400 Speaker 1: electromagnetic isotope separation method using a cyclotron as a mass spectrometer, 843 00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,960 Speaker 1: and he's so successful that vanavar Bush sends another message 844 00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:30,040 Speaker 1: to Roosevelt saying, Hey, if this pans out, we might 845 00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:31,640 Speaker 1: be able to have an atomic bomb as early as 846 00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:36,480 Speaker 1: nineteen forty four. That would turn out to be optimistic. Uh. 847 00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:40,400 Speaker 1: In April nineteen forty two, Arthur Compton, who was guiding 848 00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:45,239 Speaker 1: research into plutonium. So we got Lawrence with electromagnetic isotope isolation. 849 00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:49,240 Speaker 1: Now we've got Compton who's looking into plutonium. He's funding 850 00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:53,040 Speaker 1: the work of J. Robert Oppenheimer at Berkeley, who may 851 00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,680 Speaker 1: be familiar to some of you, especially if you've ever 852 00:52:55,760 --> 00:53:00,719 Speaker 1: checked out Yeah, up and high, here comes up a lot. 853 00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,720 Speaker 1: I mean, every single person that I'm mentioning here could 854 00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:07,320 Speaker 1: warrant an entire episode and stuff you missed in history class. 855 00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure has covered many of them in the past. 856 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:15,800 Speaker 1: So Oppenheimer and Fermi also gets funding from Arthur Compton. 857 00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:17,840 Speaker 1: He says, all right for me, he's got a pile, 858 00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,080 Speaker 1: a nuclear pile that he's working with at Columbia University. 859 00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:25,759 Speaker 1: Also funds Eugene Wigners theoretical work at Princeton. Now over 860 00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,799 Speaker 1: at the University of Chicago, Compton secured some space to 861 00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:35,920 Speaker 1: create his own uranium and graphite nuclear pile. By securing 862 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:41,000 Speaker 1: some space, I mean he converted a racketball court underneath 863 00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:45,160 Speaker 1: the grandstand at stag Field at the University of Chicago 864 00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:50,440 Speaker 1: into a nuclear pile. This, by the way, would scare 865 00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:52,959 Speaker 1: the heck out of everybody later on, because he didn't 866 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,479 Speaker 1: bother to tell anyone that that's what he was doing. Well, well, well, 867 00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:58,960 Speaker 1: let us remember this was a top secret project. And 868 00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,000 Speaker 1: also if we're talking, I don't know why my voice 869 00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:05,640 Speaker 1: was And also if we're if we're talking about public safety, 870 00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:10,960 Speaker 1: then you know, the dangerous rationalization people can always make 871 00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,759 Speaker 1: is what is the safety of the people above in 872 00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:17,319 Speaker 1: a grandstand or even the University of Chicago compared to 873 00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,160 Speaker 1: the safety of the world what I'm telling you that 874 00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,960 Speaker 1: he was a maverick. Well, I tell you know, uh 875 00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,680 Speaker 1: he uh. Well, in his defense, this approach that he 876 00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:29,759 Speaker 1: was using, which was very similar to Faremi's approach, was 877 00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:34,560 Speaker 1: low energy. It was not something that was perceived to 878 00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:38,399 Speaker 1: have risk of it becoming a runaway reaction. It was 879 00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:42,360 Speaker 1: it was more again to study the actual physics involved 880 00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:47,200 Speaker 1: to better understand it, and posed very little threat to 881 00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:52,000 Speaker 1: the people of Chicago. Using the design that he used, 882 00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,040 Speaker 1: he wasn't using it. He was using a design that 883 00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:59,719 Speaker 1: didn't require a cooling system or a shield because he 884 00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,600 Speaker 1: was it wasn't this super high energy type of of 885 00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:07,080 Speaker 1: reactions that he was he was looking into. May two, Compton, 886 00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:10,760 Speaker 1: Arthur Compton asks j. Robert Oppenheimer to take over research 887 00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:14,759 Speaker 1: into fast neutron interactions to determine the necessary conditions for 888 00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:19,040 Speaker 1: a critical mass to explode. So Oppenheimer takes on that work. 889 00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:23,480 Speaker 1: Then of our Bush asks James Conant, the guy from Harvard, 890 00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:27,319 Speaker 1: for recommendations on how to proceed, and the S one 891 00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,360 Speaker 1: Leadership Committee decides that instead of focusing on one area 892 00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,920 Speaker 1: of research, all of them still have to be funded 893 00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,799 Speaker 1: and accelerated. They still weren't certain which of these were 894 00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,160 Speaker 1: going to end up being successful is still too early, 895 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:41,160 Speaker 1: So they say, well, we can't, We can't pull the 896 00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:42,759 Speaker 1: trigger on one of these. Yet we still have to 897 00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,040 Speaker 1: keep on going. And in June two, the Army's involvement 898 00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:49,319 Speaker 1: in the project, uh really picks up. You have a 899 00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:53,080 Speaker 1: guy named Colonel James C. Marshall come into the picture. 900 00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:57,839 Speaker 1: So James C. Marshall, he's in charge of the Army 901 00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:00,879 Speaker 1: Corps of Engineers involvement in this project, and the Army 902 00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,360 Speaker 1: Corps of Engineers their main job was to secure sites 903 00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,840 Speaker 1: that they could then use to build facilities on to 904 00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:12,759 Speaker 1: test out the theory that was being generated in these 905 00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:18,840 Speaker 1: various camps. So in your normal operations, if there's not 906 00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:21,400 Speaker 1: a war going on, what you would typically do is 907 00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:25,520 Speaker 1: you have the research and development work that is starting 908 00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,920 Speaker 1: to be promising. You would build a pilot plant that 909 00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,760 Speaker 1: would test these things out, and it would be designed 910 00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,080 Speaker 1: in such a way that you can make rapid changes 911 00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:38,240 Speaker 1: to the plants design in order to best fit whatever 912 00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:41,759 Speaker 1: the process. Yeah, exactly. So you might say, oh, it 913 00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:44,160 Speaker 1: turns out that this design we came up with isn't 914 00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:45,759 Speaker 1: the best one. We should change it to this a 915 00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,040 Speaker 1: pilot plant is the kind where you would be able 916 00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,600 Speaker 1: to do that. Then once you figured out what was 917 00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:54,759 Speaker 1: the best approach, you could build a full production facility, right. Yeah, 918 00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,200 Speaker 1: And at at this time I believe the US Army 919 00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:04,080 Speaker 1: Corps of Engineers was based in New York. Yeah, the headquarters, 920 00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:06,640 Speaker 1: it was supposed to be a temporary headquarters, was on 921 00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:10,640 Speaker 1: Broadway in Manhattan. Because you want to keep it. Yeah, 922 00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:14,760 Speaker 1: So they called it the Manhattan Engineering District, or sometimes 923 00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:18,360 Speaker 1: just the Manhattan District and sometimes just Manhattan. And that, 924 00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,640 Speaker 1: in fact, is where the Manhattan Project gets its name. 925 00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:26,760 Speaker 1: It gets his name from James C. Marshall's headquarters in Manhattan. 926 00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:30,200 Speaker 1: And he was really he was on the phone calling 927 00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,560 Speaker 1: up potential land, you know, landowners who could potentially sell 928 00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:37,160 Speaker 1: him the land necessary from the build these facilities. And 929 00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:39,880 Speaker 1: the crazy thing here is the Army Corps of Engineers 930 00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,320 Speaker 1: and and these scientists are essentially skipping the pilot stage. 931 00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:46,360 Speaker 1: They're going straight from well, we're pretty sure this is 932 00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,800 Speaker 1: the way it's gonna work, to let's build this facility 933 00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:51,680 Speaker 1: to do it. And by skipping the pilot stage it 934 00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,400 Speaker 1: causes huge headaches down the line. But at the same 935 00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:57,560 Speaker 1: time they said well, we don't have the luxury of 936 00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:02,640 Speaker 1: time to go the scientifically responsible routes, so we have 937 00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:05,400 Speaker 1: to do it this way. So, uh we get the 938 00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:09,360 Speaker 1: Manhattan Project. Technically, the project has a different name. The 939 00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:13,600 Speaker 1: the official code name for the project, because it's super secret, y'all, 940 00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,800 Speaker 1: is the development of Substitute Metals or sometimes the development 941 00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,640 Speaker 1: of Substitute materials depending upon which citation you're reading, or 942 00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:24,480 Speaker 1: d s M. That's the official code name, but everyone 943 00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:28,480 Speaker 1: calls it the Manhattan Project. Uh So we are now 944 00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:30,880 Speaker 1: at the point where the Manhattan Project comes into being, 945 00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,960 Speaker 1: James C. Marshall being in charge of it, kind of 946 00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:38,080 Speaker 1: being an administrator to make sure that the scientists are 947 00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:40,640 Speaker 1: getting the resources they need. And this leads us to 948 00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:43,760 Speaker 1: the conclusion of this episode so that in our next 949 00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,200 Speaker 1: episode we can focus specifically on what happens with the 950 00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,240 Speaker 1: Manhattan Project. You're going to have a whole list of 951 00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:53,320 Speaker 1: new names. This is really just to prepare you in 952 00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:55,880 Speaker 1: case you ever decide to read the Game of Thrones series, 953 00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:58,400 Speaker 1: so that way you know how to handle all these 954 00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:02,280 Speaker 1: different characters, because it's kind of similar in that respect. 955 00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:07,480 Speaker 1: Um So, Ben, we're gonna be talking about like super 956 00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,360 Speaker 1: top secret stuff in the next episode. Keeping in mind, 957 00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:15,400 Speaker 1: the Manhattan Project was a secret from almost everybody from 958 00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:22,480 Speaker 1: two when it came into existence to mid nineteen after 959 00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:28,160 Speaker 1: the bomb has dropped on Hiroshima. So this is the 960 00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:30,040 Speaker 1: when it comes to stuff they don't want you to know. 961 00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:36,080 Speaker 1: This is it. You talk about massive government conspiracy. It 962 00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,480 Speaker 1: doesn't get much bigger than this. We're talking a hundred 963 00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:42,440 Speaker 1: thirty thousand people or thereabouts employed in somewhere or another, 964 00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:47,080 Speaker 1: most of whom had no idea what they were contributing to. Right, Yeah, 965 00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:50,640 Speaker 1: this is uh, this is bigger than you know. This 966 00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,720 Speaker 1: is something that we talked about our previous one podcast. 967 00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:58,520 Speaker 1: I'm I'm excited. Yeah, so let's see. I guess this 968 00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:00,800 Speaker 1: will be a little bit of a cliffhanger for the listeners. 969 01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:03,240 Speaker 1: So you guys will have to tune in next week, 970 01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:07,000 Speaker 1: same bad time, same bad channel. U Ben. If they 971 01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:10,320 Speaker 1: want to find you, where can they look? Where does 972 01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,439 Speaker 1: your stuff live? Oh? Yeah you can. You can find 973 01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:17,720 Speaker 1: us on YouTube your podcast streaming place of choice. Uh. 974 01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:22,920 Speaker 1: My co host producer Matt and uh Nolan I do 975 01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,680 Speaker 1: do the show stuff they don't want you to know. Uh, 976 01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:28,440 Speaker 1: We're all over the place. We have a website, but 977 01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:30,640 Speaker 1: it's really long stuff they don't want you to know 978 01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:33,680 Speaker 1: dot com. We didn't choose the name, but check us out. 979 01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:36,800 Speaker 1: You can also find Jonathan and I on brain Stuff. 980 01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:39,920 Speaker 1: You can find us on what this Stuff. You can 981 01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:43,640 Speaker 1: find us cameoing and various different things. Usually we're in 982 01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:47,280 Speaker 1: the background of someone else's someone who's who's better at 983 01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:50,400 Speaker 1: us than what we do. What are you talking about, like, 984 01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:53,480 Speaker 1: after this talk about egos, Technically we are the best 985 01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:56,360 Speaker 1: in this in this entire office. I mean, I don't 986 01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:58,560 Speaker 1: like to brag, but Ben and I are clearly the 987 01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:02,520 Speaker 1: most camera ready of every here. So for me, it's 988 01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:06,040 Speaker 1: just letting go and not not being uh, not being good. Said, 989 01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:09,560 Speaker 1: I like to rub a little garbage on myself just beforehand, 990 01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:11,320 Speaker 1: just to kind of bring you down a little bit. Yeah, 991 01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:16,600 Speaker 1: it's nice to at least fake humility and humility with Alright, 992 01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:18,400 Speaker 1: So guys, you can check out this stuff stuff they 993 01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:19,840 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. Remember, if you want to 994 01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:21,800 Speaker 1: send me a message, you have a suggestion for a 995 01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:24,560 Speaker 1: future topic, or a guest or someone you want me 996 01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:27,640 Speaker 1: to interview, anything like that, send it to tech stuff 997 01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:30,000 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com or drop me a 998 01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,400 Speaker 1: line on Facebook, Twitter, or Tumbler. The handle at all 999 01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:34,920 Speaker 1: three is tech Stuff hs W, and we will conclude 1000 01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:44,040 Speaker 1: this discussion on the Manhattan Project. Really send for more 1001 01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:56,240 Speaker 1: on this and basands of other topics works dot com