WEBVTT - TechStuff Tidbits: Fuel Cells and Catalysts 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:12.239 Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. Hey, 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:14.800 they're in Welcome to Tech Stuff. I'm your host, John 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:17.560 than Strickland. I'm an executive producer with iHeart Radio. And 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:21.440 how the tech are you? You know? I read an 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:26.200 interesting article from the Imperial College in London about how 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:31.159 researchers at that college had developed an alternative catalyst for 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:35.600 technologies like fuel cells, potentially opening the door to making 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.159 that tech much more affordable, and I thought it might 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:43.159 be good to do a tech stuff tidbits about fuel cells, 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:48.200 specifically hydrogen fuel cells, and to talk about that specific 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:52.600 development with catalysts as well. So first, what the heck 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:55.520 is a fuel cell? Well, in some ways it's very 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.200 similar to a battery. Batteries and fuel cells both rely 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:04.600 upon chemical reactions that create an output of electricity. So 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:09.759 with batteries, you've got yourself a closed system, right. All 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:13.720 the chemicals are contained within the battery, and what's in 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.679 the battery stays in the battery unless you get a 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:18.840 battery leak, in which case you really need to take 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:21.680 care of that because battery acid can be nasty stuff. 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:25.360 But yeah, the chemical reactions inside the battery will eventually 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:28.200 slow down and ultimately stop as there will not be 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:32.600 enough reactive elements remaining in the battery for the reaction 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:37.080 to continue in the battery goes dead. Rechargeable batteries can 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:41.560 reverse those reactions, and recharging is really just the opposite 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:45.720 of discharging, So instead of having electric current flowing out 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:49.520 of the battery, you make electric current flow into the battery, 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:53.440 and this reverses those chemical reactions, so you end up 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:57.800 with the original reactive elements inside the battery. Eventually, even 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:01.800 rechargeable batteries go dead because you ever really reverse all 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:05.680 of the chemical reactions, some stuff ends up becoming alert, 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.239 and over time, more and more of those chemicals become inert, 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:12.239 until your battery just isn't putting up very much juice 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:18.280 and ultimately will be useless. But what about fuel cells, Well, 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.919 a fuel cell is different from a battery because you 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.720 refuel a fuel cell, you've got your reactive elements that 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.320 are inside the fuel cell and the reactions that they 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:32.400 go through release electricity. But in the process the fuel 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:36.600 is spent, it is converted into something else, and once 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:39.520 that happens, you have to add more fuel to the 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:43.440 fuel cell and the process can continue. But let's get 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:46.600 a little more detailed. So, the type of fuel cells 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:50.280 that we frequently talk about when we discuss stuff like 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:54.360 fuel cell powered vehicles, for example, are a type called 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:58.679 polymer electrolyte membrane fuel cells. Now, this is just one 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:02.240 of many different kinds of fuel cells. Uh, there are 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:05.080 a lot of different ones that are good for specific 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.960 types of applications. However, we're gonna focus on this because 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.280 it's the type that the average person might encounter should 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.560 fuel cell vehicles become more of a thing in the future. 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:18.359 And to be clear, they're a thing right now. There 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:20.760 are fuel cell vehicles out there, some of you might 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.120 even drive one, I don't know, but they're not common. 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:28.639 So with these fuel cells, you have several components. You've 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.600 got a polymer electrolyte membrane. That's what gives this type 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.640 of fuel cell its name. And let's break down what 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:39.360 that means. All right, So membrane, I think we pretty 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:41.640 much all have a handle on that, right, It's a 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:47.040 thin boundary between two things. And an electrolyte is a 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:51.800 material that contains ions. Ions are charged atoms, So you're 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.480 talking about atoms that either have more protons than they 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:58.880 have electrons, so they would be positively charged. Because protons 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:01.720 carry a positive charge, electrons carry and negative. If you 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.760 have the same number, then the opposite charges neutralize each other. 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.160 It's a neutrally charged atom. So an ion has to 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:12.680 have either more protons than electrons, or more electrons than 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:14.680 it has protons. In that case, you would have a 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:20.520 negatively charged ion. UM. A polymer is a long chain molecule. 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:25.000 Plastics are a type of polymer um, and there are 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:29.520 lots of naturally occurring polymers, including some naturally occurring plastics, 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.839 though we don't really think of natural plastics when we 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:36.480 use the word plastic. Now. I mentioned that the membrane 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:41.039 acts as a boundary, Well what is it a boundary for? 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:45.640 It acts as a barrier between the two sides of 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:47.680 the fuel cell. You can think of it as like 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:52.160 a gateway, if you will. So, on one side, which 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.880 is the cathode side of the fuel cell, you have oxygen. 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:59.520 On the other side, the anode side of the fuel cell, 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.680 you have of hydrogen. Hydrogen happens to be the most 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:08.080 plentiful element in our universe. However, it's also highly reactive. 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:12.880 It bonds with other elements readily, so readily. In fact, 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:16.400 that pretty much we only find hydrogen informs where it 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:21.000 has bonded with something else. So when hydrogen bonds with oxygen, 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:25.960 we get water H two O, you know, two hydrogen 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:29.200 atoms and an oxygen atom, and then things get all 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:34.920 splichy splashy. So in a fuel cell, the hydrogen quote 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:38.960 unquote wants to bond with the oxygen and form water. 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.560 But you've got this pesky membrane that acts kind of 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:47.600 like a bouncer in a club, and this bouncer doesn't 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:51.919 want any neutral glum hydrogen atoms coming in. You know, 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:55.479 a hydrogen atom. A standard hydrogen atom consists of a 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:59.960 single proton and a single electron. Well, that's positive neck 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.640 of charge cancels each other out. You've gotta neutrally charged atom. 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:07.200 The membranes like, sorry, we only want positive folks in here, 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:11.080 so you can't come in. And the bouncer definitely doesn't 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:14.400 want any negative nancies coming in, so no negativity. So 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.880 the only way it will let a hydrogen atom pass 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:21.520 through the membrane is if the hydrogen atom chucks it's 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:25.839 one electron and becomes a hydrogen ion, also known as 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:30.400 a proton. Because again, the hydrogen atom is it consists 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.479 of a single proton and a single electron. So if 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:35.960 a hydrogen atom gets rid of its electron, it is 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.320 a hydrogen ion. It's also a proton. Now, once it 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:42.600 is free of its electron, the hydrogen atom can just 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.560 waltz right on by the bouncer and pass over to 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:49.440 the oxygen side. We we will just call that club 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:54.719 oxygen on the other side of the membrane. But here's 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:59.760 the thing. Chucking an electron isn't so simple, right, Like, 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.960 typically we would have to pour energy into the system 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.840 to start stripping electrons away, because we would excite an 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:10.880 electron so that it would move further out from the 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.880 nucleus of the atom until you could make it go 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:19.160 do something. So, the hydrogen atom cannot just shed an 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:23.040 electron all by itself. It needs a catalyst. Now, if 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:27.160 you remember from your chemistry, a catalyst is something that 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:33.280 facilitates a chemical reaction. The catalyst itself isn't getting like, 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.040 it's not part of the reaction in the sense of 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:40.280 it is undergoing a change. It can increase the rate 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:44.520 of a chemical reaction without itself undergoing any significant or 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:49.400 permanent change, and We'll touch on the catalyst issue in 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:52.640 a moment, because that's the key of the research I 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:55.880 was talking about the beginning of the episode. So the hydrogen, 0:07:56.760 --> 0:08:00.720 with the help of this catalyst, sheds an electron and 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:03.880 becomes a proton, a positively charged particle, and then it 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:08.760 can pass through the membrane. Now, electrons have a negative charge, 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:13.720 and negatively charged particles repel other negatively charged particles. We 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:19.200 know this right, Like charge repels like opposite charges attract, 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:23.760 So that means the electrons are attracted to the positively 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:26.600 charged particles that are on the other side of the membrane. 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.760 So the electrons quote unquote want to get through the 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:34.000 membrane and rejoin the positively charged hydrogen at ions aka 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:39.520 the protons on the other side. But that pesky bouncer 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:42.520 won't let the electrons through. It will not let that happen. 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.640 So the electrons are not on the guest list. They 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:49.600 aren't allowed inside. But if you were to provide a 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:54.400 pathway like a circuit for the electrons to pass through 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:58.160 so that they could ultimately rejoin the positively charged ions 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:00.360 that are on the other side, like, they may have 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:02.640 to go a much further distance and they might have 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.520 to do some work. Well, they're still gonna jump at 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:09.800 the chance. So this is how you make electrons go 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.760 and power something. You have electricity right the flow of electrons, 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.520 and then ultimately they can make their way over to 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:19.080 club oxygen. They're just going through like a side door 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:21.760 as opposed to the front door. And this is how 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:26.880 fuel cells supply electricity, although we you know, don't actually 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:30.240 use the analogy of a bouncer in a club. So 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:33.040 the electrons that have been shed by hydrogen will flow 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:36.160 into a circuit and ultimately join up with the oxygen 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.440 atoms and the hydrogen ions all over in club oxygen. 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:43.040 Once the electrons get there, well then they can zip 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.199 on over to those hydrogen ions, and you have hydrogen 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:50.439 atoms mixing with oxygen atoms, so you get water molecules. 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:54.160 This means that in one of these fuel cells, your 0:09:54.240 --> 0:10:00.160 fuel consists of hydrogen and oxygen, your output is electricity, 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.320 and your waste is water vapor. And that's one of 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.160 the big reasons fuel cells come up in discussions of 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:10.599 green energy because they do not produce carbon dioxide or 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:14.560 carbon monoxide emissions, at least not if you're using pure 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.840 hydrogen as fuel. More on that in a bit, so 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:21.280 they just produce electricity and water. Like a car that's 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:25.040 powered by a fuel cell that's using pure oxygen and 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:29.680 pure hydrogen wouldn't give off any emissions other than water vapor. 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:34.000 All right, When we come back, I'll get into a 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:37.439 little more detail about some of the challenges of fuel 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:41.480 cells and explain why they aren't everywhere right now. But 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:52.439 first let's take a quick break. Okay, so fuel cells work. 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.520 There are fuel cell vehicles out there today, though there 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:59.600 are not a lot of them. So why aren't fuel 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.200 cells more popular? If all you need is the most 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.839 common element that's in the universe on one side, and 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:10.040 oxygen in the other, and if you can just essentially 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:13.960 scoop up oxygen from our atmosphere, why aren't we all 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:17.320 using fuel cell vehicles. There are a few big reasons, 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:21.160 and one is that fuel cells have an ideal operating temperature. 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:25.760 Your average polymer electro light membrane fuel cell best operates 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.640 it around eighty degrees celsius or a hundred seventy six 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:32.240 degrees fahrenheit, which is pretty toasty, and it means that 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:35.440 in really cold regions it could take a while to 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:37.960 warm up the fuel cell to a temperature that's high 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:40.920 enough to generate enough electricity to do whatever it is 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.959 you want to do. You might be familiar like batteries 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.920 don't operate as quickly in very cold temperatures, meaning you 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.920 get less electricity out of a battery. You get, uh, 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.240 electricity that may not be enough for you to do 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:55.880 whatever it is you need to do. If you've ever 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.120 picked up a flashlight that was sitting in a freezing 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:00.680 room and turn it on, you I be like wow 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:03.719 that the light is really weak from this, and then 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.720 over time, as the flash light warms up, the light 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:08.960 gets stronger. The same sort of thing can happen with 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:13.080 fuel cells. Like you, you could have a slower chemical 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:16.040 reaction at lower temperatures, and if it's slow enough, it 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:17.680 might not be enough to do what you need it 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.480 to do, like power and electric motor for example. Now, 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:25.960 for another reason why fuel cells aren't everywhere, Uh, they 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:29.600 deteriorate over time, so you do have to replace them occasionally. 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:32.720 And then we get to what's a really big drawback. 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:38.679 They are expensive, and they are expensive because of the catalyst. 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:42.600 See the typical catalyst used in these types of fuel 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:47.600 cells is made of platinum. That's a very rare, very 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:51.360 expensive metal. And even though you only need a relatively 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:56.079 small amount of platinum per fuel cell, that requirement really 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.160 drives up the price significantly. In fact, according to the 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:03.839 researchers that Imperial College London, about six of a fuel 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:07.760 cells cost comes from the platinum that's used for the catalyst. 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:12.520 That's why the work done by those researchers could be transformative. 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:16.640 The researchers were able to create a catalyst using iron 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:21.439 instead of platinum. Now, iron isn't scarce at all. The 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:25.600 Earth is lousy with the stuff. Iron is plentiful, and 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.320 if we could use iron as a catalyst material instead 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.680 of platinum, that would bring the price of fuel cells 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.600 way down. And let's talk a little bit about what 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:39.439 those researchers did. They took iron atoms and they embedded 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:44.560 singular iron atoms within a matrix of carbon, so they had, 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.400 you know, multiple iron atoms in the matrix total, but 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.000 they would in each atom was kind of its own 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.640 little individual part in that section of the matrix. This 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:55.920 is where we can talk about something that's really interesting 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.760 and it's also a little counterintuitive because we're familiar with 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:03.719 the way how iron works on moss. Meaning if you've 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.480 got a whole bunch of iron atoms together forming say 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:10.080 a chunk of iron, we know how iron will behave, right. 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:14.000 It's on this classic system. However, when you get down 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:17.800 to an individual iron atom, you're now diving down to 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:21.520 the nanoscale. Actually you're diving down to the atomic scale, 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:24.520 which is even smaller than the nano scale. Once you 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.840 start hitting the nanoscale, stuff starts to behave in an 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:30.480 entirely different way than the way we are used to 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.440 it on the macro scale, and it can in fact 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:36.800 be really bizarre um on the nano scale, even though 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:41.280 you're talking about unimaginable tiny particles, those particles have way 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:45.040 more surface area per unit of mass than what you 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:48.240 would find at the macro level, and that means that 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.440 more of the material can come into contact with other 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:57.800 stuff by unit of mass, and the materials behaviors can change. 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:00.880 One of those behaviors is that material reels can become 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:05.440 better catalysts at the nano scale or the atomic scale. 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.360 The researchers said that they're iron catalyst, and a carbon 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:13.360 matrix was able to perform as a good substitute for platinum, 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:17.160 and that it has performance that is quote unquote approaching platinum. 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:20.680 So it sounds as if the iron catalysts perhaps isn't 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:24.960 quite as effective as platinum, but the tradeoff in price 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.760 could more than make up for the decline in performance. 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.000 But performance is just one part of the issue. Another 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.200 one is durability. That's something that the researchers are working 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:38.880 on now, trying to make the iron solution as durable 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:43.040 as platinum catalysts. Otherwise you would have to replace the 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:47.480 catalyst more frequently, which would eat into the cost savings 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:50.720 of iron. Right if you have to replace it more 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:54.360 frequently than you would with a platinum catalyst, then the 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:58.880 benefits start to that that get that that span of 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:01.320 benefits begins to narrow, I guess, is what I'm trying 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.880 to say. Plus, it becomes a hassle if you have 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.920 to frequently get your fuel cells serviced or replaced. Now, 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:11.840 if the team can make the iron catalysts stability match 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:15.160 that of platinum, the breakthrough could lead to a revolution 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:18.920 and fuel cell technology. However, there is still one more 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.920 thing we have to talk about, and that's hydrogen itself. So, 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.280 as I mentioned, it's the most plentiful stuff in the universe, 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:31.080 but it also tends to bond with other elements really easily, 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:34.560 and that's the tricky bit. To get at hydrogen, we 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.560 typically have to exert energy to do it. We can't 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:41.120 just go and collect hydrogen pure hydrogen on its own. 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.680 It's almost always bonded to something else, So we have 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:47.000 to find a way to break those chemical bonds that 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.960 hold hydrogen to whatever it happens to be bonded with. Well, 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:53.680 when you start to look at fuel cells from an 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:57.120 energy ecosystem point of view, you have to start asking 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.640 tough questions like do you have to spend more energy 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.840 to get the hydrogen then you are getting out of 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.359 using it in a fuel cell? And how are you 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:11.480 getting at the hydrogen? Is it as efficient as it 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:14.639 can be? Is it environmentally friendly because some of the 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:19.480 ways we get hydrogen is definitely not environmentally friendly. In fact, 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.959 the primary way we get hydrogen is we collected as 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:27.600 a byproduct from natural gas processing and and natural gas 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.600 is a fossil fuel. So if we assume that that's 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.920 how we're gonna keep getting hydrogen, it means we're presuming 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:36.600 that we're going to continue to depend on fossil fuels, 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:40.600 and that is an issue, right. It means that we're 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:45.200 still doing something that itself is environmentally harmful. We can 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:49.440 use hydrogen without breaking those bonds in some forms of 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:53.960 hydrocarbon gases, but that would mean that we would actually 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:57.439 have emissions beyond just water vapor. It might include carbon 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:01.800 monoxide for example. So you know, you could have fuel 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.720 cells that use hydrogen that's in a mixture of something else, 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:09.600 like a hydrocarbon gas, but you have down downsides to 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:12.200 that as well. There are other ways we can get 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:15.439 hydrogen that don't involve fossil fuels. One way is just 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.119 to do what fuel cells do, but in reverse. So 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:21.479 remember with fuel cells, we take hydrogen and oxygen and 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:24.320 using that membrane and a catalyst, we get electricity and 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:27.800 water vapor as byproducts of the chemical reaction. But then 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:30.000 if you were to take water and pass an electrical 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:33.520 current through the water, you would break the molecular bonds 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:37.040 between hydrogen and oxygen and you would get O two 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:40.919 and H two gases. But again that means you have 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:45.720 to expend energy in order to release the hydrogen and oxygen. 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.320 If you're expending the same amount of energy as you 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:50.760 would be getting out of the fuel cells. You're not 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.840 really seeing a benefit here, really, you're just shifting where 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:58.040 the load is. One way to approach this is by 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:01.240 using renewable energy sources to create the electrical current you 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.359 need to break those molecular bonds in a process is 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:10.359 called electrolysis. Anyway, harvesting hydrogen presents its own big challenges. Yes, 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.320 the use of hydrogen and fuel cells is clean energy, 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:16.760 but getting at the hydrogen might not be so clean. 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.280 There's always a catch still. With the possibility of fuel 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:24.480 cells becoming more economically feasible, that could encourage more r 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:27.359 and d into how we can collect hydrogen in a 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:31.160 more environmentally conscious way. And who knows, maybe we'll get 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:34.600 that hydrogen economy that folks were talking about nearly twenty 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.639 years ago. And that's it. Protect Stuff Tidbits. Hope you 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:46.880 enjoyed this. I'll talk to you again really soon. Text 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.359 Stuff is an I Heart Radio production. For more podcasts 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.120 from I Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.439 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:00.240 Two