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Speaker 1: Hey, what, Doug gotta leave here and welcome in. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to All Ball, All Basketball all the time. But

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Speaker 1: we don't necessarily break down XT and o's. We try

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Speaker 1: and share the stories of some of these incredible coaches, players, managers,

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Speaker 1: flora players, former coaches. Whatever. Uh that that that's what

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Speaker 1: we share right here. Okay, So here's what I want

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Speaker 1: to do with this one. This is Todd Simon. Todd

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Speaker 1: Simons the head coach of Southern Utah University. Remember this

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Speaker 1: is a guy who took over a program that everyone

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Speaker 1: said you can't win there. You know what they just did.

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Speaker 1: They won the Big Sky. So they won the Big Sky.

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Speaker 1: They're gonna move to the Whack, which is I think

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Speaker 1: a little bit tougher competition. Big Sky used to be

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Speaker 1: a great league, not as much anymore. But they're moved

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Speaker 1: into the Whack. Uh. Todd's an unbelievable dude. Wait do

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Speaker 1: you hear this story? Okay? He was a newlywed and

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Speaker 1: he was the head coach or do you assistant coach

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Speaker 1: at Finley Prepp and his wife and he moved into

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Speaker 1: a house, five better house with twelve high school kids

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Speaker 1: that were playing at Finley Prep. Is not good enough tease.

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Speaker 1: I think it is. Um Again. We have other podcasts

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Speaker 1: out there you'll enjoy none maybe as much as this one.

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Speaker 1: Here's the head coach of the Southern Utah Thunderbirds Big

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Speaker 1: Sky Champions for two thousand twenty one, Simon Kind. I

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Speaker 1: want to get to your squad this year and the

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Speaker 1: turnaround of the program. But come, let me start with

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Speaker 1: you as a as a basketball player. You're your first

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Speaker 1: memory falling in love with who was where? And when? Uh?

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Speaker 1: You know, very young. Uh, I grew up in the

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Speaker 1: uh the bad Boys influenced area of Michigan back when

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Speaker 1: they were when they were just getting going, and those

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Speaker 1: early memories of the Pistons, Celtics, Pistons, Lakers. Uh you

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Speaker 1: know those early early days, you know, Magic Johnson being

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Speaker 1: from the area. Uh So that's that's kind of the

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Speaker 1: first memories of fall in love with basketball and and

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Speaker 1: seeing that brand of style, the swagger they played with,

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Speaker 1: and the toughness, and that you were you were the guys.

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Speaker 1: You were the guy everybody else hated them. You were

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Speaker 1: the guy that loved him, absolutely loved them absolutely. I

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Speaker 1: mean we've been playing the driveway. Remember me and my

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Speaker 1: brother playing the driveway and dad broke his foot in

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Speaker 1: like five places. We we you know it was there

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Speaker 1: was no no lay ups. Don't let you you played

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Speaker 1: lamp here. I want to be lamp here. I want

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Speaker 1: to be more. I want to be lamp here. I

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Speaker 1: want to be more. Those are the two. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: so uh okay, so what was what? What area in Michigan? What? What?

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Speaker 1: What you paint the picture of what is like you

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Speaker 1: know growing up? Uh, I mean just a just a

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Speaker 1: beautiful place. It is good a place on earth as

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Speaker 1: you'll find with a small town about thousand people, one stoplight,

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Speaker 1: about twenty miles northwest of Lansing, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: just a sports town. Uh. Every day there's a different

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Speaker 1: game and a different sport. Uh. You know, corn fields

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Speaker 1: all surrounding just just your your traditional uh rural upbringing

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Speaker 1: in in a in a just a sports infused town

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Speaker 1: of you know, people that care for each other. It's

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Speaker 1: really kind of throwback down and to the state of

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Speaker 1: those people are still you know, the camaraderie still there.

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Speaker 1: Why did you get a central question? You know, I

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Speaker 1: was I was an academics, uh, you know, academically gifted,

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Speaker 1: you know, school was I would probably say easy for me,

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Speaker 1: I guess. And and so you know, I had a

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Speaker 1: couple of choices, some academic scholarships, and one of the

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Speaker 1: situations there was that they had some trials program and

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Speaker 1: they gave I don't attend full rides or whatever it

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Speaker 1: was a year and uh so I got a chance

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Speaker 1: and competed for that, and I was able to get

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Speaker 1: that scholarship and and uh free education, and it was

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Speaker 1: close to home and and and I had a great

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Speaker 1: experience if there was a real a good place. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so what about ball now in terms of you know,

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Speaker 1: you're a ball player growing up? You got a Central

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Speaker 1: Michigan and what happens. Yeah, so I knew at a

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Speaker 1: at a fairly young age, that basketball wasn't gonna be

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Speaker 1: my ticket in terms of playing and all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I just I was realistic and and quite frankly, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I have a nerve disease right that was

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Speaker 1: diagnosed in in junior high high school type. But I knew,

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Speaker 1: I knew, Uh, I knew that there was something wrong

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Speaker 1: much earlier, you know, And so I I don't have

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Speaker 1: a lot of purful nerves that that are functioning. So

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, as you start getting a little

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Speaker 1: bit older and you start realizing like, GOLLI all my

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Speaker 1: buddies and everybody that we play with our progressing, you know,

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Speaker 1: and now all of a sudden, you know, as a player,

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Speaker 1: when you start having bad games and struggling or ball

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Speaker 1: you know, turn balls over, You're like, what in the

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Speaker 1: world's going on here? You know, that's no fun. But so,

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Speaker 1: but I knew at the young age of the k

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Speaker 1: coaching was where how I could engage and still be

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Speaker 1: a part of this thing. And um, so I go

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Speaker 1: to Central Michigan and actually coached high school uh a

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Speaker 1: j V program at Harrison High School up in northern

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Speaker 1: Michigan while I was in college. Um and you started

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Speaker 1: cutting my teeth there and helped a little bit with

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Speaker 1: the women's program at Central Michigan, helped a little bit

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Speaker 1: camps and whatnot with the men's program, so that there's

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Speaker 1: kind of cut my teeth in college, get a head start. Okay, So,

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Speaker 1: so like, tell me about this this nerve nerve disease.

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Speaker 1: So what when you say, like it's explained to somebody

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Speaker 1: who doesn't have it, what is it and what does

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Speaker 1: it actually do that that that hurts your ability to

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Speaker 1: in terms of playing sports. Yeah, you know, so it's

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Speaker 1: a former muscar district, but it's kind of a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a you know, there's thirteen types of muscar districute,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's kind of the the more of the

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Speaker 1: cousin of it in some ways. But essentially, like if

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Speaker 1: you think about your you know, iPhone phone chart, and

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Speaker 1: you strip away the outer coating of the wire, it

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Speaker 1: leaves the wire exposed, right, and if you if you

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Speaker 1: touch that wire, it'll you know, essentially trip off the connection. Right.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's at a badmotion those deals, And that's essentially what

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Speaker 1: what what would I deal with? While my nerves don't

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Speaker 1: have protection and uh so so they're always flickering and

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Speaker 1: uh you know it's more of a painful disease than anything.

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Speaker 1: But you know, when you're a lot of times it's

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Speaker 1: a later on setting life and what of mine came

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Speaker 1: out on the kids? So I don't know any different.

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Speaker 1: You know, how do you how do you manage the pain? Like?

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Speaker 1: What is is there medication is that you have to

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Speaker 1: avoid certain things? How do you manage this? Because nerve

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Speaker 1: pain and I'm frankly lucky to have had it, but

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Speaker 1: lucky to have not had it. Right. But nerve pain

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Speaker 1: is something that apparently everybody has, Like you have no

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Speaker 1: idea the pain because you can't. It's not like you

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Speaker 1: can put ice on it, you know, like it's like

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Speaker 1: underneath the surface and just throbs right. People who have

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Speaker 1: you know, traumatic injuries and there's there's somebody's nervous severed

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Speaker 1: and then it grows back like that. Nerveving is supposed

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Speaker 1: to be the worst. How do you how do you

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Speaker 1: manage that pain at a young age? Well, the good

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Speaker 1: thing for me is that I haven't known any better.

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Speaker 1: But what you do is just make your adjustments. Two choices.

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Speaker 1: You know, at at a young age, you I can

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Speaker 1: sit on government disability for the next eighty years and

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Speaker 1: not you know, not do all lot, or you know,

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Speaker 1: buckle down and roll with it. But in reality it's

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Speaker 1: a strength because if I lay around or is it

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Speaker 1: sitting around? That's when you know, you start thinking about like,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this, this, this, this and this are

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Speaker 1: on the grocery list of of what's killing there right now.

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Speaker 1: But if I just keep doing stuff, if I if

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Speaker 1: I stay on the phone, if I stay in in

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Speaker 1: film or playing. If I'm just busy for seventeen hours

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Speaker 1: a day, you know, then then uh, then it's good.

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Speaker 1: So it's actually become an unbelievable strength because it just

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Speaker 1: keeps me from just being you know, sitting around and

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Speaker 1: thinking about, oh man, this thinks. But so that's so

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Speaker 1: I've just kind of turned down to strength. So you're

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Speaker 1: a college student when you start coaching high school ball,

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Speaker 1: what was that? It was great? You know, Uh, it

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Speaker 1: was a team that, you know, struggling program. Obviously, you

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Speaker 1: do the best you can and don't I'm not it

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Speaker 1: was I'm not quite sure they knew how young I

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Speaker 1: was at the time. You know, I've always looked older

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Speaker 1: and I probably really was. But uh but but it's

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Speaker 1: but it was a good Uh, it was a great experience.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you sit there and you're in front of

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Speaker 1: a team, uh, and you have to figure it out,

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Speaker 1: and you've got young eyes looking at you and they're

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Speaker 1: they're both five years four years, five years younger than

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Speaker 1: what I was, and you have to figure it out.

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Speaker 1: And that's the best part about coaching is and it

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Speaker 1: becomes just today today with to this day, with the

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Speaker 1: philosophies you've got to make these players better and if

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Speaker 1: you make the players better, you've got a chance to win.

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Speaker 1: And that's what it became about. Um, okay, so you

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Speaker 1: get done with college, right and what was what was

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Speaker 1: the what was the plan? So? Yeah, college was interesting.

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Speaker 1: You know, I had uh, you know, I got a

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Speaker 1: couple of degrees UM. One in management information systems, another

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Speaker 1: one in sports studies. Sports studies one was just kind

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Speaker 1: of fun. You know. I'll be honestly, I was kind

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Speaker 1: of steered away from athletics because everyone, you know, having

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Speaker 1: this academic scholarship and and all the peers in this

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Speaker 1: little program or becoming doctors and biophysicists, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: why you want to be a coach, Like this is

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Speaker 1: your wasteing your talent type of thing. It was those speeches.

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Speaker 1: But so I did the sports SACE thing as as

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Speaker 1: as a second degree, just for fun because I enjoyed it.

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Speaker 1: And then, um, you know it, already got a full

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Speaker 1: time job. I kind of elevated up in a startup

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Speaker 1: company and had a staff, and I just said, there

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Speaker 1: and so this is probably where I want to be

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Speaker 1: when I'm thirty thirty five, and I'm already did before

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Speaker 1: I graduated and then said, huh, this ain't it. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, so deciety, you know, I need to get

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Speaker 1: outside of the comfort zone. Um, and we just moved

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Speaker 1: to California. Um and the head of West. Let's just

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Speaker 1: hit a different button, hit a restart, let's try and

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Speaker 1: do something. And I thought that was as good a

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Speaker 1: move as we could have made. And we got a

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Speaker 1: West and then started watching programs out there, trying to

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Speaker 1: come into practices and latched down at Pepper nine with

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Speaker 1: Paul Westfall as a volunteer and started getting my feet

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Speaker 1: way in college coaching. Okay, so you make it sounds

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Speaker 1: so easy, right, Like I just came out to California,

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Speaker 1: Like did you drive? Did you why were you alone?

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Speaker 1: Did you have a job? Did you have money? Okay? So,

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Speaker 1: so so you're you're working in a bit. What was

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Speaker 1: the business called the startup that you order? So it

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Speaker 1: was a company called last Amount Technologies is kind of

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Speaker 1: the front end of you know, internet, high speed internet

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Speaker 1: back in early two thousand or where on that area.

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Speaker 1: But so I was part of a company and they

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Speaker 1: spun off and then uh you know I was and

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Speaker 1: they became Google. Yeah, well and and and yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't haven't really followed much, but I just I just

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Speaker 1: knew that that wasn't my passion. You know. It was

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Speaker 1: great to get kind of kind of get going. Sure,

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Speaker 1: they offered me a great spot, you know, and I

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Speaker 1: just said, this is my passion. And so like say,

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Speaker 1: what what were I'm like, what we what were you making?

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Speaker 1: What would they offer you to take up five? Something

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Speaker 1: like that? Which is you're like in Michigan and you're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know it's not terrible. So what what when you

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Speaker 1: said when you told your family like, hey, I want

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Speaker 1: to I want to move to California and maybe a

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Speaker 1: ball coach. What was that conversation? Um, you know, I

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Speaker 1: was a pretty strong willed young man, so I don't

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Speaker 1: think it surprised them. I mean, it was never once

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Speaker 1: I kind of made up my mind on certain things.

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Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't a there wasn't a lot of conversation,

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Speaker 1: and it was like, Okay, I'm going to California And

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Speaker 1: that was a fun period. But I'll see you know,

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Speaker 1: I'll be back, you know, at some point I'll see you. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So so what years this? This is two thousand three, Okay,

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Speaker 1: so two thousand three, what kind of car did you

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Speaker 1: pack up the driving California? So I had a d

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Speaker 1: a nice uh tan Toyota camera and yeah, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: we got a caravan. My my my one of my

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Speaker 1: best friends and uh now my wife, she was my

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Speaker 1: girlfriend at the time. We packed up, got a little

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Speaker 1: U haul and uh just got going, got caravan going

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Speaker 1: across the country. Okay, so so you guys, so three

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Speaker 1: of you, two cars or one car, three cars, three

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Speaker 1: of us and we had a bunch of buddies and

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Speaker 1: people that just kind of, you know, just to be

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Speaker 1: fun this role. So this sounds awesome. So okay, you

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Speaker 1: leave Michigan. Where did you stop? Yeah? Well, I mean

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Speaker 1: well we broke down and I think Nebraska. Um so

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Speaker 1: we had to put a car on a trailer and

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Speaker 1: you name it who broke down you it was? It

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Speaker 1: was actually my wife's car. So we just wrote it.

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Speaker 1: We just rotated cars out because we're already trail. We

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Speaker 1: had one of the trailer anyways, because we had the

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Speaker 1: U Haul. What what kind of cars she have? What

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Speaker 1: kind of hoopie did she have this breaking down? I

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Speaker 1: think she was trying to remember what she had. I

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Speaker 1: think she had That's a great question. I think it

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Speaker 1: was a pontiac. But I got that's a good question,

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Speaker 1: and that's why they don't make anyway. Yeah, So we

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Speaker 1: we we get to California and and we have been

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Speaker 1: out there a few times, and I made some networking,

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Speaker 1: uh did some networking with potentially you know, a group

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Speaker 1: that was with the Dodgers. Um, you know, we had

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Speaker 1: a few things kind of going that that we were

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Speaker 1: that it wasn't just completely blind, but you know, that

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Speaker 1: was right in that period where the Dodgers get sold

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Speaker 1: and a couple of contexts I have kind of wiped

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Speaker 1: out and and uh, you know, but it's been in

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Speaker 1: the meantime, you know, I kind of get involved in

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Speaker 1: another uh startup doing some you know, computer software sales

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Speaker 1: that were kind of um working with some companies out

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Speaker 1: of India to just kind of stay afloat, right and

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Speaker 1: just kind of work on the side that way, kind

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Speaker 1: of fund being a volunteer, uh doing the basketball stuff.

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Speaker 1: But all my spare time it was just about um,

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Speaker 1: you know, being being in the gym and and but

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Speaker 1: we've got involved in some Hollywood stuff, doing some some

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Speaker 1: promotions and you know, I think one of my strengths

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Speaker 1: is that never got to get never fear being told

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Speaker 1: no getting uh. And so we've we've kind of found

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Speaker 1: our way into some fun stuff out there and and

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Speaker 1: pursuit a few of those things. And but it was good.

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Speaker 1: It was a good period in l A. Fox Sports

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Speaker 1: Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.

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Speaker 1: Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot

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Speaker 1: com and within the I Heart Radio app search f

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Speaker 1: s R to listen a lot. All right, So, I

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Speaker 1: mean everybody says like, I don't want to coach at

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Speaker 1: every nine. You know, you you walk out of Firestone

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Speaker 1: field House and see the ocean. How did you make

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Speaker 1: contact with uh? With Westball? What was what was that

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Speaker 1: like in order to help him out? Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I was literally just kind of going up and down

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Speaker 1: the coast and I wanted to be in the gyms

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Speaker 1: and be in practices and just take notes. All I

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Speaker 1: want to do is learn, you know, I just want

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Speaker 1: to get better and and and understand it. And then

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Speaker 1: they're they're gracious enough to share a bunch of film,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I just on my own just wanted

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Speaker 1: to break down film. I wanted to I wanted to

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Speaker 1: watch and understand their concepts and you know, the coaches.

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Speaker 1: They were great where they let me sit in there

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Speaker 1: and start asking them about their coverages. And I was

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Speaker 1: just a young guy, just trying to learn, trying to

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Speaker 1: figure it all out. And then, uh, you know, one

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Speaker 1: day they said, well, you keep coming here. What you

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Speaker 1: want to you can. We don't have anything for you,

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Speaker 1: but if you want to help us out, you're already

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Speaker 1: kind of doing some stuff. And I said, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: that'd be great. And uh so it's kind of volunteered

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Speaker 1: there and got feet wet in recruiting organization, camps and

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Speaker 1: and you name it, and workouts all that good stuff.

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Speaker 1: So that was kind of the indoctrination. And coach Westball

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Speaker 1: is just such a great human being. It was really

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Speaker 1: good to see that contrast one if you if you

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Speaker 1: were to obviously coach the NBA coaching college a great player, uh,

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Speaker 1: great player, and I helped I inducted him into College

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Speaker 1: Basketball Hall of Fame. People forget how great player was. Uh.

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Speaker 1: One thing you take away from him as a coach,

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Speaker 1: that was his strength, Uh compassion, Like I thought, like

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Speaker 1: I thought, his style was so different than what I'd seen,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the Midwest, it's it's Bob night. Tom

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Speaker 1: is Oh. I mean that's the shabby on the big

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Speaker 1: the larger than life figures, and there's an intensity to

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Speaker 1: every practice and an intensity to to come Titian and

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Speaker 1: coach bus Ball was very mild mannered, uh in his style. Um,

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Speaker 1: but the players equally still wanted to run through a

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Speaker 1: wall for him. And that was fascinating to me because

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Speaker 1: I had seeing that maybe style of coaching necessarily uh

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Speaker 1: where you don't necessarily have you know, confrontations to get

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Speaker 1: it out of players. It was more of I want

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Speaker 1: to I want to play for this guy. So that

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Speaker 1: was that was a great takeaway. Interesting, Okay, so what

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Speaker 1: made you pack up and move to Vegas? So you

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Speaker 1: know after that year, you know, my wife was was

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Speaker 1: a teacher at San Fernando, Hi. You know, she's a

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Speaker 1: high school English teacher there, and and uh, you know

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Speaker 1: a lot of it was a interesting year and and

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Speaker 1: but for for hers, you know, she had some college

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Speaker 1: roommates I'd gotten got into we well we've always loved

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Speaker 1: the Las Vegas and you know, visited there quite a bit.

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Speaker 1: So we gotta come, you know, some some real estate there.

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Speaker 1: And so she was going to go to Vegas and

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Speaker 1: teach and I was gonna stay in l A and

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Speaker 1: kind of do what we were doing and kind of

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Speaker 1: make it work. And then late that next right before

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Speaker 1: that next season, you know, B had a you know,

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Speaker 1: assistant video position. The guy left for the NBA and

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Speaker 1: and uh I said, well, hey, let me let me

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Speaker 1: drive over. And back then I'm talking, I had the

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Speaker 1: bleached blonde hair down to past my shoulders, the whole thing,

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Speaker 1: and I'm looking at coach Kruger's background, the profile and

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Speaker 1: the midwe I'm like, okay, well I'm gonna shave this

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Speaker 1: off real quick and make a trip to Great Clips,

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Speaker 1: go go interview for the for their little spot. And unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: uh I did, and uh and got the position there

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Speaker 1: for for a couple of bucks, and and and and

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Speaker 1: then we just kind of proceeded on from Las Vegas.

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Speaker 1: And and as I told my wife, said, we're probably

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Speaker 1: doing this coaching thing. We're gonna be three years and now,

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Speaker 1: just don't expect to be anywhere for very long. And

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Speaker 1: then we ended up ended up being in Vegas for

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Speaker 1: what twelve thirteen years. So you can get to Vegas

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Speaker 1: and you're working for Lone Kruger, and um, he's remarkable

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Speaker 1: I mean I almost went to play for him when

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Speaker 1: he's in Florida, and he obviously played for my dad.

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Speaker 1: My dad was a freshman team coach and the assistant

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Speaker 1: the varsity. So I have an incredible amount of respect

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Speaker 1: for not only what he's always been able to really

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Speaker 1: win everywhere, but he's the only guy to really win

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Speaker 1: at Vegas since Tart left. Right, Um, what is it

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Speaker 1: about Lon Krueger that's allowed him to not just be successful,

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Speaker 1: but sustained that success through different generations of players. Uh,

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Speaker 1: He's as tough of of an individual as you'll you'll

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Speaker 1: come across and and and by that, I mean I

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Speaker 1: think his mental toughness and assuredness is incredible. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's never too high and they were too low. You know,

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Speaker 1: after a tough loss, he wouldn't know whether he's won

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Speaker 1: by thirty or lost by thirty, you know. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's something that's very very strong leadership characteristic for

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Speaker 1: for his programs. You know, I think the the players,

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Speaker 1: everyone that that works for him plays for him, wants

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Speaker 1: to absolutely just empty the tank for him because you

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Speaker 1: respect him so much as a man, and he believe

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Speaker 1: that he genuinely cares because he does. He's a genuine

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Speaker 1: human being. Um and and he absolutely knows his I

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Speaker 1: mean he's such a brilliant basketball mind. I mean it

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Speaker 1: really is. And he's he's as good as they get.

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Speaker 1: I mean I would put him up there and and

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Speaker 1: in the greats if he's never necessarily had that blue

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Speaker 1: blood job or or that type of thing. He's always

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Speaker 1: taken on tough challenges programs on probation or whatnot, and

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Speaker 1: and and built them back to life and built fan

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Speaker 1: bases back to life. And it's such an incredible characteristic

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Speaker 1: that he has. It really is. UM. Okay, So how

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Speaker 1: the Finnily job to be? Yes? So, you know, right

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Speaker 1: around two thousands six, you know, they wanted h this

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Speaker 1: prep school idea, what it had been floating around UM

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Speaker 1: Group Group investors let that Mr Mr Finley wanted to

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Speaker 1: you know, you kind of get an option for guys,

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Speaker 1: you know, for a prep school type option out west,

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Speaker 1: and uh, in fact then there was none, and so

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Speaker 1: this was kind of an idea to honor you know,

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Speaker 1: his parents, and you know he's such a philanthropist and

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Speaker 1: this was an idea and so uh, they you know,

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Speaker 1: approached Mike Peck, who was the video coordinator at UNLB,

401
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,199
Speaker 1: and he was gonna jump over there and and be

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Speaker 1: a part of that. And so I kind of filled

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Speaker 1: his role for maybe a month, and they kind of

404
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Speaker 1: came to me and said, hey, you know there's we're

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Speaker 1: gonna need someone to live with all these players and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, in a in a in a house and

407
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 1: and being being assistant over there, and is that something

408
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 1: to be interested in in the conversation, and I to

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Speaker 1: this day credit coach Krueger, he was very honest with

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Speaker 1: me because you know, hey, I was on top of

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Speaker 1: the world now I was actually gonna make a a

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Speaker 1: little bit of money as a video coordinator spot and

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Speaker 1: and and you and I had talked and I said, well,

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed the recruiting process, you know, I enjoy getting

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Speaker 1: on the floor. And he said, well, this is the

416
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Speaker 1: way you can do that and work on your craft,

417
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Speaker 1: whereas this role you're gonna kind of do more of

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Speaker 1: the same. You've You've done two years of this, You've

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Speaker 1: kind of seen you know what I'm thinking. You kind

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Speaker 1: of know what the basketball is here. And and that

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Speaker 1: conversation kind of stuck and I said, yeah, you know

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Speaker 1: what I want to I want to I want to

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Speaker 1: spread our wings and recruiting, particularly getting no get relationships,

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Speaker 1: and and that's how it kind of came to be.

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Speaker 1: That was the main decision maker. And so that summer,

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Speaker 1: my wife and I got married on a Saturday, and uh,

427
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 1: she stayed in Michigan and I flew out on Monday

428
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 1: to get get the house ready for for having twelve

429
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: players moving in with us immediately. So anyway, so you

430
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:13,479
Speaker 1: just got married. Yeah, and in that we were twenty

431
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: I was five, My wife was twenty five as well,

432
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: and uh, yeah, we just get married and five bedroom

433
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,160
Speaker 1: house to all players and two of us. What's roll?

434
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: How was that got made? How is it that? Well,

435
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,199
Speaker 1: you know, here, I'm twenty five, and I'm thinking, okay this,

436
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 1: you know, coming from the college level, you're kind of

437
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: thinking one way. And then you're picking up guys at

438
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 1: the airport that don't speak English. You're picking up guys

439
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 1: that bringing you know, Pokemon cards, and you're like, oh, yeah,

440
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,199
Speaker 1: this some of these guys are fifteen years old, some

441
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 1: of these some of the some of them need parental figures.

442
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 1: And and it was you know accelerated our you know,

443
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,640
Speaker 1: we were we were in at that point were we were,

444
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: my parents and my coaches. Um, you know, workout guy.

445
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you name the role you you're in it

446
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: because you know, fifteen twenty is a is a tricky time,

447
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: especially for young basketball players emotionally and all that good stuff.

448
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 1: So it was a great, great living experience. Me that

449
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: that experience living in that house with those young athletes

450
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: and going through the process and seeing and hearing all

451
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: that every single night was by far the best thing

452
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: I've ever done in my career, no question, because now

453
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: I'm in the in the mind of what what coach

454
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 1: says in practice and what that player heres are two

455
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,479
Speaker 1: different things. And I would say it's a different thing

456
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 1: maybe the time, so you know, you might go having

457
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: practice and all this speech was great, dada da da da,

458
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: and this player right here heard something completely different, and uh,

459
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: that lesson was unbelievable. I mean, just the way that

460
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 1: managed players site how to get the best out of him,

461
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: I think to this day has been also gives you

462
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: the other side of the recruiting process too. You know

463
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 1: how like when you get out the phone with a

464
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: kid now as a recruiter, how how has that taken?

465
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: What is that conversation like now you're on the other

466
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: side of it, you know, with the kids. No question. Well,

467
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: and I took you know, I'm a note taker, and

468
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: I just took a bible of notes. Because guys would

469
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: come off official visits. I mean, guys would get off

470
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: the phone with with the coach and I'd say, what

471
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 1: do you think of that guy? And then just hear

472
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: them absolutely roast that coach for five minutes, you know,

473
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: or or say I have no idea what school that was.

474
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: I have no idea who I just talked to you.

475
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: And and the fascinating side of that, of that part

476
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: of recruiting, you know, was was like holy smokes, I

477
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: that they see through the sales pitch as they see

478
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: you through the phone. You know, it was very interesting.

479
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 1: It was very so your favorite kid you guys ever

480
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: had at the house. Oh, I had a lot of favorites.

481
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: Man um, your wife would adopt this this this kid,

482
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: would have him marry your firstborn daughter. Great question, that's

483
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: a great question. Let me think, uh, I mean, everyone

484
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 1: loved Horry Gutierrez, theregotiers. Here's here's what my brother told me.

485
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 1: I use Horror by the way as a talking point

486
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 1: for my kids and for guys that I talked to,

487
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: actually a different pot I had Justin Bean on. And

488
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 1: Justin bean has that Jogotiers quality where every game he's

489
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: ever played, a guy on the other team wants to

490
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: fight him. Yep, and and and he gets under their

491
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: skin and nothing he just plays, but just the way

492
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: in which the toughness by which he plays, and he

493
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: just kisses them off. And it's an unbelievable weapon to

494
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: have on. And I what Greg told me was he

495
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: walked in your guys, Jim, and he just got the

496
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: job assistant job at CAW and he was looking for

497
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: other guys, and You're like, the Mexican kid with the ponytail,

498
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: that's the one you want. And he was like, why

499
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: you guys, you said, because he wins every He wins

500
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: every game, and oh yeah, by the way, somebody wants

501
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: to fight him on the other team. And you know

502
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 1: what that happened in college every game he ever played,

503
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: he became pat twelve Player of the Year. He played

504
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: in the NBA and like he came to you guys

505
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: from like an apartment in Denver, right correct, Yep, he

506
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: sure did so. Kids from Mexico limited English playing in

507
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: Denver comes to your house and what what what was

508
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: he like to be a part of your life? Uh?

509
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: In that house? You know he was he was he

510
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: was pretty quiet. He was quiet, but everyone knew like

511
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: his toughness, you know, and he had a he had

512
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 1: a great smile, you know, he did. He but he

513
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: was such a respectful young man, like just just a

514
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: good hearted person. And I remember he had kind of

515
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: hurt his knee before he was gonna come to us,

516
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: but we kind of saw it. Anyways, we saw enough

517
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: and uh we said yeah, And so he comes back

518
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: his knees kind of banged up a little bit and uh,

519
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: a little bit out of shape. And I think it

520
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: was maybe one comment like a, you know, not in

521
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: great shape, and probably took him four days of I

522
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: mean not, don't work me out locked the gym door.

523
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 1: I got this myself. And then next thing, you know,

524
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,719
Speaker 1: you're like that you can't transfer there's no still some

525
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: videos because you can't transform your body and that that

526
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: quick in real life, and he did. He he was

527
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: just an absolute warrior. I mean he wounded everyone's heart

528
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: on the floor every single day. So how did it

529
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: come to be? And you went back to UNLV to

530
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: work to day, right, So it was great. You know,

531
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: I became the head coach at at at Binley overtime

532
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: coach Peck did a great job, but I worked on

533
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: the coach beating there for a minute. And then uh,

534
00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: that last year, you know, coach Peck goes to the

535
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: g Lee you guys a head coach and I take

536
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: it over and we have a great season with Nigel Williams,

537
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: Goss Christian would and and uh, you know, so I

538
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: was happy as a clam. I mean it was it

539
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: was this was gonna be the pinnacle, like I could

540
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: stay there for a hundred years. And and and I

541
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: loved that program, you know dearly and uh we kind

542
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: of had a rolling So that that was my That

543
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: was my deal. And but then the college stuff, you know,

544
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: every year, there was a couple of things, but I

545
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: wasn't interested. I liked where we were living, I liked

546
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: all that and h then the UNLB thing was just

547
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: different because that was, you know, a place that was revered. Um,

548
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: we didn't have to uproot the family. It was a

549
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: different option than than going to a big East or

550
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: Big ten school. Um. And uh, now you kick all

551
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: those kids out of your house. Yeah, yeah, and and

552
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: and then by that time I thought I was the

553
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: head coach and we we were we were you know,

554
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,719
Speaker 1: we had gotten out of the house. We graduated from

555
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: the house at that stage, so we had some normalcy

556
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: and uh but yeah, it was it was. It was interesting,

557
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: But it was just in that respect David and Dave

558
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: such a good person. I felt like we could get players.

559
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: I wanted to really see if our ability to get

560
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: players translated and in the way we developed players, Like,

561
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: did that translate to the college level. You're always gonna

562
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: why did what you did? And obviously got Christian with

563
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: you guys had you know, Anthony Bennett was there, you

564
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: guys had super talented Why didn't it work? We're you know,

565
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: we were too young to be honest with you, and

566
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: no one wants to hear that, and it's such a cliche,

567
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: but uh, we had. We had such roster turnover. I

568
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: kind of got there in July of year three, and

569
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: then the roster from year three to year four, year four,

570
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: you know, we had number three recruiting class in the country.

571
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: But they were young, like Rishad von Pat McCaw and

572
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: Christian Wood was a sophomore and um, and these guys

573
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: are young guys, were shot as a seventeen year old

574
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: college freshman, and and and and so they're all just

575
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: trying to figure it out with all great aspirations and

576
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: we can eat anybody, but we could lose anybody when

577
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 1: you when you're young like that. And uh um, never

578
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: really quite found that stable multiple year piece at the

579
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: point guard position. You know, I think I think, you know,

580
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: we that was probably our our Achilles heel because I

581
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: think if we maybe got that a little bit more

582
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: to three year organized point guard just to kind of

583
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: get everybody on the same page, we could have. But

584
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: we're you know, when you kind of have a one

585
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: year guys at that spot, is you know, you get

586
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: a little bit you know, out of sorts at times,

587
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: so you know, and then but by the time that

588
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: last year came around, you know, you're the pressure maybe

589
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: was was built to where it was impacting you know,

590
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: our our players. And but it was great lessons, I mean,

591
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: just phenomenal lessons for a young early thirties guy to

592
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: go through all that and you know, take away things.

593
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do it any different because now we know

594
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: you can see all the all the things that would

595
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: do a little bit differently to manage those situations. So

596
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: you have this really talented crew and it starts to

597
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: fall up, Mark and they let Dave go and you

598
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: become interim. Take me through that day and how you

599
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: found out. Yeah, you just don't see those things in

600
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: college sports at the time. Now you're starting to see

601
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: it more and more often, the mid year type of thing.

602
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: But it was we you know, the pressure is mounting

603
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: a little bit. We we we had earlier in the season,

604
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: you know, knocked off Oregon would be won the Pack twelve,

605
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: we knocked off Indiana, we won the Big Ten that year.

606
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: So we had some early success and then you know,

607
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: had a little rough patch towards the end of the

608
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: end of that December and play three three type games

609
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: when you know, all close close games and go start

610
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: oh and three in the league. We lose that buzzer

611
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: against Fresno State and then have the Carra State Wyoming

612
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: trip and and and you know, have leads and just

613
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: kind of fall behind in both of those two games,

614
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: and and uh so the pressure was kind of mounting,

615
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: and you know, and then there was talk and you're

616
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: just trying to at this point you're just trying to

617
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: keep your head down. You're just trying to keep you

618
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: keep working and keep keep pounding the rock and hoping

619
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,479
Speaker 1: something something good happens. And then uh and then you know,

620
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: it kind of gets different. It was a Sunday morning

621
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: and uh, you get a phone call, Hey, we're making

622
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: a change, is what we'd like you to do, And

623
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: you kind of run through your questions because you're you're

624
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: you know, I'm loyal to Dave, and hey, what what

625
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: what are my options here? You know, and uh, you know, no,

626
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: we're asking you to do this, and uh, you know,

627
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: we don't want you to campaign for the job. We

628
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: were gonna do a national search, but you know, we

629
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: want to do this. And then at that point, for me,

630
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: you just always ask, Okay, what what's the best what's

631
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: the right thing to do? And uh, for me, it

632
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: was about, Okay, we brought in all these players. They

633
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: deserve to have a chance of success and have some

634
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 1: normalcy or or try to compete. Let's not make it

635
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 1: about uh, anything else other than that. And so that

636
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: was the That was the the main thing. And so

637
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: you just had to make the main thing the main thing,

638
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: and the main thing was to make sure that we

639
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: tried to give him an experience, try to keep coaching

640
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: up these guys, give him everything we got for the

641
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: rest of this year. And that's what we did, and

642
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 1: that's what we did from that point out. Um, so

643
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: the season is done. When did you know that you

644
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,919
Speaker 1: wouldn't get the job? Um? You know, they never really

645
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: said anything like that. I just knew that that, you know,

646
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna campaign. I wasn't gonna do that. They

647
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: asked me, you know, they as as they said they

648
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: were going to do a national deal, and they just

649
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: kind of said, kind of sit tight, just sit tight,

650
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't know what's gonna happen. And uh. Um.

651
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: But at that point, you know, we had started hot.

652
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 1: We started hot. I think I don't know if we

653
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,240
Speaker 1: wanted our first four games, you know, after the change,

654
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: and it was amazing. I went from no college experience

655
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: to ten days later having college j D's reaching out

656
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: to my me or my people saying, hey, you know,

657
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: this guy's this guy's got college experience. And every game

658
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: was on TV back then for us, you know, with

659
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,720
Speaker 1: our roster and whatnot, so that that kind of helps.

660
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: So now, you know, looking at some you know, three

661
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: four options, some search firms reaching out and so it's

662
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: a little bit different deal. And uh as the season

663
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: wrapped up, you know, it was exhausting of a year.

664
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: It was exhausting, and uh, you know you want to

665
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: be around you know, some more positive energy and that

666
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: type of thing. It just it was just it just

667
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: got a little sideways there, especially with all the injuries

668
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: and and guys that were out. It's just like this

669
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 1: wasn't meant to be. And so Southern Utah was one

670
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: of those schools that that kind of reached out and

671
00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: you know, let's have a conversation. We'll have a conversation.

672
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: Sho we get knocked out after the second or third

673
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: round or whatever it was in the in the conference tournament,

674
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 1: and so let's let's just sit down and have a conversation.

675
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 1: You know, I had a vision having you sitting on

676
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: guaranteed money for a couple of years left on your deal.

677
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: You feel pretty good about having some options that the

678
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: worst case go back to. You know, I love the

679
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 1: prep level, I love doing that. Maybe get a prep program.

680
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: I mean I had I had some things that I

681
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: was very okay with and uh, but then just having

682
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: these conversations and talking to the a D here at

683
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: the time. I kind of said, this is this is

684
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: if I was interested, this is what I would need.

685
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: And he said, well, you are interested. This is who

686
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 1: we are. And uh we said okay, let's let's talk

687
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 1: more and that one thing, let another And I said,

688
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: you know what this is, you find out who you

689
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: are in this business. I believe that I enjoyed the

690
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: building process. That's what everyone has their thing. If I

691
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: was running, uh, the best program in the country tomorrow

692
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 1: that's already been running, I wouldn't enjoy that as much

693
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: as taken out a challenge. And everyone has got their thing.

694
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 1: But for me, that was what I learned that I enjoyed,

695
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: and that's why. And I said, well, this is kind

696
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: of the ultimate challenge. It has been, you know, as

697
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: low as you can get. There are two and twenty

698
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: seven not long before and and you know five and

699
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: twenty four or whatever it was, and said, okay, let's

700
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: let's do this. Let's see it's kind of like moving

701
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: to California. Let's get outside of the comfort zone and

702
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: get a reset and and and throw yourself back in

703
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 1: the middle of the the ocean. Try and find your way back. Okay,

704
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: so you get there. How bad was well, there was

705
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: certain there was certainly, um we had we had some

706
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 1: stuff that we needed to get aligned, you know, without question.

707
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: Um it was just you know how it goes when

708
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: when you're losing and start pressing and uh, you know,

709
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: I think we had to get our the right right

710
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: people in the room from a roster staff everybody just

711
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 1: just a reset, you know, take sometimes when once you're

712
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: trying something and it doesn't kind of work and you

713
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: just need a reset. And it was doesn't mean anyone's

714
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: way was or or or whatever, it just it was

715
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 1: just wasn't work. So we had to kind of get

716
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: a fresh reset. We had to kind of cleam up

717
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: a few things with with with player attrition, especially with

718
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: losing starts. It's like a compounding issue because then your

719
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: a PR starts going down because you're trying to replace

720
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 1: players and guys are not in a good headspace and

721
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: you name it. So we had a lot of cleanup

722
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: to do. And I always say one of the most

723
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: more underrated things now and taking over a program is

724
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: how how long is the tear down before the build up?

725
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: And we had a little bit of tear down here,

726
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 1: and that's not disrespectful. It's just we had to we

727
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: had to infuse our way and it was going to

728
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: take a little bit longer. Who is that? Who is

729
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: the first foundational piece here? You sign? Um, that's a

730
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: great question. Are our very first signing was our starting

731
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: center this year? Who has been with us for all

732
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: five years, big kid by the name of Ivan mcdoonium,

733
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: who just does everything right. Okay, so you can get

734
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: the job his specific recruitment. How does it actually how

735
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: did it actually work? Uh? You know, so I'm so,

736
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm calling all precincts, say you know I'm

737
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: here now. Um, you know I'm gonna take care of

738
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 1: you guys. It's gonna be the same player development system

739
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 1: that that that that we've had over the past. You know,

740
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 1: you can trust us some of your next guy where

741
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: where where was he he was? So he was at

742
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: prep school and then he was just working out in

743
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: l A. Um, you're just working out in l a

744
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: trying to figure out his college decision. So so you

745
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: had him on a you had him on a list.

746
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 1: Somebody recommended him. Yeah, just a straight recommendation, you know,

747
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: with one of our international guys. He said, yeah, hey, Roddy,

748
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 1: Roddy Philip Povidge and uh and Roddy said, hey, yeah,

749
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: we do get a guy and and come on through

750
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: in and uh so we did. Gott Gott got in

751
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: my car. I think it drove drove from from Cedar

752
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 1: City to wherever it was, Suna Barbara or wherever they're

753
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: they're they're working out as you know at the time,

754
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: and I said, well, we gotta do this quick because

755
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: the windows closed quick on these things. So he was

756
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: the first one. And you know he uh red shirted

757
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: at last year and he's he was the starting center

758
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: this year. That's amazing, right, I mean five years for

759
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: him to be the first guy and the first signing

760
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 1: to be in your starting center when you win the

761
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: league five years later is remarkable. That's the the definition

762
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 1: of a foundational peace, no question, these guys. He's leaving here.

763
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 1: This m b A the whole thing. It's unbelievable story. Okay,

764
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: So here's here's here's My My question is is you

765
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: have obviously know the different levels different truth right from

766
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: having your time in Prap and from being but when

767
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: you come from being in Vegas and when you you

768
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: pointed out you had there's two one and dunes in

769
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: that last team, right, you guys recruiting the top of

770
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: your the cream off the top. How how hard is

771
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: that to change the evaluation to will this? Will this

772
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: work in Southern Utah's league? Right, It's like a different level,

773
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,919
Speaker 1: different type of vision for what a guy is gonna

774
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: look like. How difficult is that transition to mentally in

775
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: terms of your emails, you know. And I see that

776
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: all the time. I see that all the time now

777
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: in hires. Because of my time at Finley. We used

778
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: to sit there and prognosticated, like, this guy is gonna

779
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: be a great division one, you know. I remember Brad

780
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: Stevens when he was assistant coach at Bather, like, Oh,

781
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: that guy is gonna be good, you know, or or

782
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 1: or shock a smart when he was in the MAC.

783
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,399
Speaker 1: You know, the certain guys were like, Yeah, that guy

784
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 1: is gonna be good. You know, this guy gets it,

785
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: this guy is gonna be able to translate and you

786
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: So you see that, and I think it's a lot

787
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: of the same lines of player evaluation. I think you

788
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: see that the coaches that kind of shift levels. I

789
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: think that's very difficult and you see a lot of

790
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: I think a lot of them. I think the hardest one, Todd,

791
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: honestly is like say right now at Southern Utah, say

792
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:09,919
Speaker 1: you mean, you know, I'm I'm not trying to chase

793
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 1: you ever your job, but you get a bigger job.

794
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: A lot of guys they take those recruits with them.

795
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: And oftentimes sometimes it's right because you're recruiting at a

796
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: higher level than your actual school. But sometimes you know,

797
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: you bring guys like man, why do you recruit him?

798
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, well he signed him at a low

799
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: major and he was just his guy like, yeah, he's

800
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: not good enough for this level. I see that a

801
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: lot where when when when coaches go up, they think

802
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,879
Speaker 1: they were recruiting a higher level of player and they

803
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: really weren't. They really recruiting well for their level, no question,

804
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 1: you said the best. I mean, And I think sometimes

805
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 1: you know, in this in this profession, I think sometimes

806
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: you can think it's you, not the players. You know,

807
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 1: And I see it all the time. I mean you

808
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: see it too. I mean, and we're all goof, we

809
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 1: all got egos and all this stuff, But but I

810
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: got news for you, and none of us coaches have

811
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: ever made a basket. We can, we can lead the

812
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: horse of water, but we ain't drinking and uh and

813
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: I think you see that a bunch. But you have

814
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: to you have to kind of know what your what,

815
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 1: what your surroundings are, what, what are you competing against?

816
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 1: Because everyone these levels a little bit different. But coming

817
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: down here, we knew what. We knew that we were

818
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: gonna have to get Mountain West players. You know, I'm

819
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: a pretty simple guy. I just know this. If I

820
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,479
Speaker 1: have better players, you know, if I'm recruiting above our league,

821
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: if I have better players in our league that or

822
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: at least top four, I want to be taking for

823
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: every position, like then I'm gonna look a lot smarder.

824
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, so when I'm in the first couple of years,

825
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: there's still a lot of losses sustained. I guess the

826
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: first question was there ever a doubt? Did you ever

827
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: look up the final scoreboard the first year and be like, shot,

828
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't man, Well, yeah, we knew. Um,

829
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 1: we had the four starters kind of move on and

830
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: the first edict was here clean this up. And we

831
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: had some misues off the floor and some of those

832
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: tep of things and so I said, okay, but I

833
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 1: understand that's gonna You know, we went into that first

834
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: year with eleven ten or eleven scholarship guys. We didn't

835
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: fill a bunch of the spots, and you know, we're

836
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: gonna try to clean up the APR a little bit

837
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 1: and give us a little bit of as small of

838
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 1: a solid ground. Was that the right choice? I don't know, um,

839
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: but you know we we fought like crazy. It was

840
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: almost like a year long practice let's let's let's set

841
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: a tone of how this is gonna work. And you know,

842
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: we so we kind of had knew. I had little

843
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 1: perspective like I would even say maybe that group over

844
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: achieved even though we we piled up some els and

845
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, the second year we started to

846
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 1: be okay, this is kind of we we kind of knew, okay,

847
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 1: we're rounding this thing in the shape you know, for

848
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 1: for year three, four and five, and that's when we

849
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 1: started to kind of start having some success and hit

850
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: post seasons and all that good stuff. Played the c

851
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: I t um, Okay, so why did it work this year?

852
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: I think just now where we've we've developed this thing

853
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: now to where we have core pieces we got. We

854
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: got older. You know, it's it's not older like there's

855
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: a cheap way to get old. That doesn't work. And

856
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: I think that's what there's gonna self correct itself at

857
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: some point where we're realize, Yeah, taking that twenty two

858
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: year old that's sitting in the portal doesn't get you old.

859
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: Old is to me, you gotta get experienced. You know,

860
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: we have you know, a fifth fifth year guy in

861
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 1: the program that that are at our five spot, a

862
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,879
Speaker 1: third year guy at our four spot, a four year

863
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: guy and it's played a hundred and twenty games here,

864
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,800
Speaker 1: Um at our point guard spot. Like those those guys

865
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,919
Speaker 1: know our system in and out. You know, we run

866
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 1: a million sets, we run and do a million different things.

867
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: And I can just say, like they named the place,

868
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: so what do you want to call this wrinkle? And

869
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: they already know the verbiage and they name it themselves.

870
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: So it's uh, that's a critical critical point. And when

871
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 1: in college basketball, Um, what was it like to win

872
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: the LEA? You know the at the moment, you know,

873
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 1: I'm always I don't do a great job celebrating um

874
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: and you know, like we won the championships of Finlay,

875
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,320
Speaker 1: and I remember looking in the crowd with a minute

876
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: left saying, Okay, there's a kid right there that's going

877
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:22,919
Speaker 1: to be on our team next year. I'm gonna get

878
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 1: this kid, like you know already. You know, I'm gonna

879
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: turn this into it a recruiting event. And then and

880
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: even this is okay my first thought process. Okay, yeah,

881
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 1: this is this awesome, great, we achieved this goal we

882
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: expected to um. But I know there's gonna be a

883
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: day on the look back and say, hey, you know,

884
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: twenty and four in a conference championship here at a

885
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: place where you know, when we took the job, everyone's like,

886
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: what you know, there's no chance, what are you doing

887
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 1: like this? You know a lot of folks quite frankly

888
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: that we're very against the move in my circle and saying,

889
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:00,399
Speaker 1: I don't think you're that's everybody said, now, I can't

890
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: win there. I had a friend who was trying to

891
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: help out uh performer a d you know, and they

892
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: were like, you know that. The feedback they got from

893
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: everybody was you can't win there. And then they got here,

894
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: you are winning, And I just wonder if if there

895
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: was if he took you Okay, So then you get

896
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: to the conference tournament. Now you're champions in the league.

897
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 1: You guys are actually leaving the league to go to

898
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: even bigger league. Um, what went wrong? Yeah, you know,

899
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: we we ran a gas a little bit. In reality,

900
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: it was there's a million things that you look back

901
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 1: you watched and say, I do this a little differently.

902
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: We you were no excuse, program were ore leventh day

903
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: on the road. Maybe we don't stay on the road

904
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:43,879
Speaker 1: that long because you know, we had we had our

905
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 1: final three conference games that were road games. And it's

906
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 1: tricky with COVID, right, you don't want to be in

907
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 1: the airports. You don't want to, um go back when

908
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: we're on spring break here. So we decided to stay

909
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: on the road. And by that day eleven, I woke

910
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: up and I was tired. And if I'm tired, I

911
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: know they're tired, and but you can't show that. So

912
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,720
Speaker 1: we're like, okay, if we can get through this semifinal game.

913
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,720
Speaker 1: We thought our adrenaline would carry us through the final.

914
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: It was our mindset, but we knew we had to

915
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: get through that. We had a taxing quarterfinal game were

916
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 1: we were you know, pressing and try and do all

917
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 1: these things that we had kind of safe for the tournament.

918
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 1: We didn't show a lot of our press during the year,

919
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: but we wanted to. We knew it would be good

920
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: for us in the conference tournament. And then you know,

921
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 1: my my point guards cramping, he's out, you know, and

922
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: then uh, and we should tend free throws and forty

923
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,720
Speaker 1: five minutes our our lead guards just a mini Zion

924
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: Williamson and he, uh, his hip is killing him. He got,

925
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: you know, just banging the floor over and over and

926
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 1: he just started hobbling. I'm like, oh, no, I can

927
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: kind of see. But we had great looks. I mean,

928
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: we really did. I mean I think you look back

929
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: at it and you always beat yourself up and I

930
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: can remember every possession without watching the film of all

931
00:48:58,000 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 1: those games, and you say, you know what, we had

932
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: great looks and the ball didn't go in, in, in in,

933
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 1: you know, Hail Mary three at the end of the

934
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: clock for them here and then uh, loose ball, scramble,

935
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: buzzer beater. I mean, you just you those things happen.

936
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: That's the game. That's the game, and that's how do

937
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: you how do how do you process that? Because you

938
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: had and this is just like, there's no disrespected Pat Eing,

939
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: but his team finished eighth place in the Big East, right,

940
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: and they played they play well, you know a little

941
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: bit of some depleted teams whatever, but they when the

942
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:35,879
Speaker 1: common people celebrate you like man Georgetown whereas and I'm

943
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 1: again I'm just using it as an example. Whereas whereas

944
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,959
Speaker 1: you take over program was terrible when six yr first

945
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 1: year win the league and now it's like, well, did

946
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: they really have a great year? You had an incredible year.

947
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: How do you process that and share that with the kids?

948
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,439
Speaker 1: The sense of incredible accomplishment despite the fact they don't

949
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: get they don't get the it's been on TV. They

950
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: don't get to go to the n S A term.

951
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 1: That's our that's our existence here. You know, we're we

952
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 1: we We've got a small margin for air at these levels.

953
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm haven't been at this level. Now.

954
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: I got such a high high respect um, not only

955
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,800
Speaker 1: for anyone that's kind of like took on a challenge

956
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: or try to do a rebuild or whatever. I mean,

957
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 1: that's why I respect coach Kruger just so much more

958
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: after going through this process, because the to rebuild programs,

959
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:35,240
Speaker 1: it's just such a a different energy that it takes.

960
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: And because like those things, like you're like exactly what

961
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: you're talking about, you're managing a different it's a different

962
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: feeling when when you when you're sitting at twenty and

963
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: three and you're staring at if I lose this game,

964
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: our season is over, you know, versus say, you know

965
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: you get remember talking with you know, Mark DERs And

966
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: was talking about when going from Whichita State, Texas A

967
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,399
Speaker 1: and M and you know, all all these coaches that

968
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: we had great conversations with. But like you said, it

969
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: was a lot of those years, we had unbelievable years

970
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: and you're not getting the tournament there and it was

971
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 1: a Texas A and them. We knew we were gonna

972
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: be one of six or seven teams that gets in.

973
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 1: And that's what these levels just just different. In your

974
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:16,359
Speaker 1: margin for er for coaching is way less. I mean,

975
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: I hate this even in a high school level. I

976
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: respect high school coaches. No shot clock. You play against

977
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: Stu Better and see what happens if you get down six,

978
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: you might not get the ball back there us for

979
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: two quarters. So you learn and and and uh it's

980
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 1: so true, like hey, hey, I coached the little kids

981
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,959
Speaker 1: now in a basketball and you start to learn, like, okay,

982
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:37,840
Speaker 1: a lot of running clock until the last two minutes,

983
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 1: and so there's a foul fest. If you're winning, the

984
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 1: foul fest, that shortens the game a ton. Do you

985
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: have it in your team? You don't have to hold

986
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 1: the ball and just guys of foul It just takes forever. Uh,

987
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 1: And you know and you you you you learned, So

988
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 1: you learned someone. Okay, So if you were to give

989
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 1: advice to a young coach who's just getting his first

990
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:02,880
Speaker 1: head coaching out, what's what's what's the best advice you

991
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 1: can get that no, exactly who you are, I mean,

992
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: sit down and figure out exactly who you are as

993
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 1: as an individual, as a leader. What do you stand for?

994
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,240
Speaker 1: And that's your north star. So when you start getting

995
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,959
Speaker 1: sideways and start questioning what you're doing, because everyone's gonna

996
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 1: question what you're doing no matter what first miss basket,

997
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 1: You're gonna be questioned what what you know? And so

998
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: you better have your your your your what you're who

999
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 1: you are sorted out real quick and how do you

1000
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: how do you know that? If you're a young coach,

1001
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: A lot of times you don't know who you are? Right?

1002
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 1: How do you Okay? So who are you? Todd Simon?

1003
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: Is who when you say this is who I Toughness

1004
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: you mean you got You're gonna have to be mentally

1005
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: tough like you know we're not. We're come into this

1006
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:54,359
Speaker 1: thing with I always used to term a relentless enthusiasm.

1007
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 1: You know you're not gonna knock me off. I get it.

1008
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:01,760
Speaker 1: You know the the um there's more reasons to not succeed,

1009
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: particularly with the way I've came through the business, then

1010
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: then to succeed. So you can't listen any of that

1011
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 1: stuff in controlling your control. GOLs is such a huge deal.

1012
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,839
Speaker 1: Like we know we are, we have confidence in what

1013
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: we do, and then at the end of the day,

1014
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 1: like there's like I tell our teams, we don't have

1015
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 1: any reason for nervousness or anything like you know that's

1016
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 1: a fear of the unknown, because if you put your

1017
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: preparation in and if you just remind yourself that every day,

1018
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: then there's no reason for to be fearing the unknown.

1019
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: You've did everything you possibly could. And I think those

1020
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 1: core values, but particularly that the toughness piece, we're always

1021
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 1: going to be an underdogumentality. We're gonna find a way

1022
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 1: to um just just out tough people mentally or physically,

1023
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,479
Speaker 1: one of the two. It's got to be our way.

1024
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 1: Last last thing, you guys are twitching leaks, right, yep.

1025
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 1: And so it's a it's a higher level of ball um.

1026
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 1: How do you sustain what you're doing at Southern Utah

1027
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 1: when you're going into a league that has a little

1028
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 1: bit higher caliber account Yeah, I mean, at the end

1029
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: of the day, it's just it's it's just the belief

1030
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: that that I have here. You can always count what

1031
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 1: you don't have in terms of resources or ability to

1032
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: do this or that or the other thing. It doesn't matter.

1033
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,399
Speaker 1: That's I tell myself that all the time, Like when

1034
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 1: this happens or that happens, or this cut or that cut,

1035
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. You have a ball, two buckets you

1036
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: got and you better go find a team that's gonna

1037
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,399
Speaker 1: that's gonna fight like crazy and then you coach them

1038
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 1: up and everything else is not even B, C or D.

1039
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 1: That's that's X y Z, that's the that's that's way

1040
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: down the list. So we've got to find this this

1041
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: The answer is always in finding finding great players or

1042
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 1: guys with great ceiling that will potentially reach the ceiling

1043
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 1: and then coaching the absolute mess out of him. And

1044
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:06,320
Speaker 1: that's where your answers are. That's what it is. Okay again,

1045
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,919
Speaker 1: this this is the actual last thing, um having seen

1046
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 1: both sides of it from Finley to now, like you

1047
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 1: know that what you're talking to on the phone and

1048
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:19,439
Speaker 1: now obviously the EBIL process without anything live for last

1049
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 1: year is even more difficult. How do you know if

1050
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 1: the kid has good character? Right? Like you're you're at

1051
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 1: you're a little bit off the off the radar there,

1052
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: but you can't have you can't have one of these

1053
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 1: kids run around and ruining your name and your program.

1054
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,359
Speaker 1: How do you know you're getting the right character when

1055
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 1: you have such limited individual interactions with them because you're

1056
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: you're an out of the way place, like you cannot

1057
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: have somebody who's gonna you know, who's gonna get in trouble?

1058
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 1: How do you how do you know? And and you're

1059
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 1: gonna get more out of them? But yeah, there's a balance, right,

1060
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 1: you gotta have talent and you gotta have character, And

1061
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,240
Speaker 1: obviously character beats talent and her kid talent has no character.

1062
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 1: But how do you know, because some guys are not

1063
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 1: what they portrayed themselves to take. Yeah, that's a that's

1064
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 1: a phenomenal question. That's what we face all the time.

1065
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 1: And and kids have gotten great at mimicking and to

1066
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,840
Speaker 1: say the right things I mean, and and you know,

1067
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 1: I think that's where I go back to that Finly experience,

1068
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 1: you know, and seeing how some of the chameleon uh

1069
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: almost during the recruiting process where it can look one

1070
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 1: way and but maybe act another or or And I

1071
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 1: think that's that's it's all about fit. You know. For us,

1072
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 1: we're never gonna use all of our emails. That's not

1073
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 1: that's not it's realistic for where we're at to go

1074
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,319
Speaker 1: see a kid seven times and sit down with them

1075
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,439
Speaker 1: and get the really. So we have to be our

1076
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 1: relationships have got to we have to you know, I

1077
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 1: tell our stuff. We need to lead donation and relationships

1078
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: because we need to get the honest truth. Because everyone's

1079
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 1: got a guy, everyone's got a guy for you now,

1080
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 1: but you need to know everything about that. I need

1081
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:57,799
Speaker 1: I need the guy to be like hey, no, no, no,

1082
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,360
Speaker 1: I know what you're about. This this is gonna be

1083
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 1: the issue, Like just cut into me. Real uh and

1084
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 1: and and and honestly, in the recruiting process, we uh,

1085
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: you know, I give it to kids pretty real. Hey,

1086
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 1: if you're into the club scene, if you need to

1087
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 1: do this, if you need to do that, if you

1088
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 1: need to be doing this at three o'clock on Tuesday,

1089
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: don't come. Don't come. There's a lot of players out there,

1090
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: but it's not gonna work here. And I said that's

1091
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 1: probably every recruit at some point, like, it's not gonna

1092
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 1: work here. If your X Y Z and and uh

1093
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 1: and most of time I say it. Didn't believe me.

1094
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 1: I'm just telling you it's not gonna work here. And

1095
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 1: and I want to And I think you can get

1096
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 1: as when your players talk to guys, the players can

1097
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 1: get better intel. Especially when you get a core group

1098
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: of guys that are about what you're about. You know,

1099
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 1: they can say, hey, this is not one of our guys,

1100
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 1: This isn't one of us, this guy's this is this

1101
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 1: and this. You know they based our dinamic identify it. Um.

1102
00:57:58,000 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 1: That's very important. Me. That's as big as thing as

1103
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 1: you deal with here is to get the right people,

1104
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 1: um that want to be great And just why a

1105
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 1: lot of times some guys that make mistakes have a

1106
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 1: good heart. I can deal with that all day long.

1107
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 1: So how do you make sure that you have the

1108
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 1: right character and your guys the I think the in

1109
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 1: the evaluation process. One thing you have to these these

1110
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 1: young men are so good at saying the right things right.

1111
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 1: They watched Lebron. They I've seen it. I've been on

1112
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 1: the other side. Listen to them almost uh, chameleon like

1113
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 1: be able to kind of flip that switch on and

1114
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 1: tell coaches what they want to hear. And and and

1115
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 1: you know, every kid's a gym rat. Everyone's got a guy,

1116
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 1: everyone's and and you know, at that level probably they are.

1117
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 1: But the college is a different animal. So who's going

1118
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 1: to change when they get outside you know, their comfort zone,

1119
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 1: get to college where freedom is a little bit different.

1120
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: And uh, and so I think you need to find

1121
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: the guys that really love the game, love the process.

1122
00:58:58,280 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of guys that love like

1123
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: playing basketball, But playing basketball in being a Division one

1124
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: basketball player are two very different things, as you know.

1125
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: And uh, when one of the things that your network

1126
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 1: is is so important. You know, when we talked about

1127
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: leading the nation and relationships, because those relationships are going

1128
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 1: to tell you about a guy. But for us, our

1129
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 1: evaluations kind of come down. We want to find guys

1130
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 1: that are competitors, you know, guys that are just nation competitors.

1131
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 1: Sometimes that guy that that's throwing a fit and putting

1132
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 1: the basketball is mad because he's losing, not because he's

1133
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 1: got any problem, you know what I mean. Like I

1134
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:38,919
Speaker 1: want some of those guys, Like, I don't want guys

1135
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 1: that be like, oh, gee whiz, while we lost, let's

1136
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 1: go to a movie that's not you know, I'm I'm

1137
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: stewing for four days after we lost. Like I want

1138
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 1: guys like that that are still salty on Tuesday after

1139
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: after a Friday loss. Like I'm good with that. You know.

1140
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 1: I want to find guys that can laugh at themselves.

1141
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 1: You know, we're going to be a enthusiastic program, but like,

1142
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 1: you gotta have guys that can laugh themselves a little bit,

1143
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 1: are pretty secure. I think. I think it takes a

1144
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: little bit of uh security, self confidence to be able

1145
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 1: to laugh at yourself. And and so that's another characteristic

1146
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 1: we look for. And and you know, lastly, you know,

1147
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 1: you just look for guys that that you can talk to.

1148
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 1: I think it's underrated. Underrated things. I think guys that

1149
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 1: you can talk to and they're engaged and they're asking questions,

1150
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 1: and you guys ask questions. Listen to what you just said.

1151
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 1: The guys that give you like the yeah, okay, cool

1152
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: coach like that never asked any questions. That that's me.

1153
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: You're like, okay, wait a minute. This guy is that

1154
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 1: he's playing, but he's not engaged and the conversation thing

1155
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 1: is interesting. Mike Montgomery, my brother was there. He had

1156
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: a uh it was it was funny. Um. There was

1157
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 1: a really talented guard let's not name him. He went

1158
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 1: to another Pack twelve school. He's very and and Greg

1159
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:07,040
Speaker 1: was like we could get him. And he's like, all right,

1160
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 1: put me, put me on the phone with him. And

1161
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 1: he had a five minute conversation with him and he's

1162
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 1: like pass and he's like, I don't think you understand.

1163
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 1: Like the kids. The McDonald's all American, like he can

1164
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:21,040
Speaker 1: really hoop. He's he's like he plays hard, he's defends it, competes.

1165
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 1: He's like, past can have a conversation. If I can't

1166
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 1: have a conversation, how is he going to survive at

1167
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: cal How is he going to play for me. And

1168
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 1: that was his That was like his first first safety

1169
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 1: net as as a coach, which was, I just don't

1170
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:37,200
Speaker 1: care about your background, don't care about anything. Can I

1171
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 1: have a conversation with you. It's it's a really it's

1172
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 1: an interesting litmus test. Really is it is? It is?

1173
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 1: You know? And and I wanna I wanna the way

1174
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,440
Speaker 1: you filtered through, uh, some of his candidates. I want

1175
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 1: to hear stories, I asked. I asked these players to

1176
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: tell me the story, because it's easy to say, well,

1177
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 1: I'm or if we're talking to a coach and say, hey,

1178
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 1: if this guy's America, give me an example, give me

1179
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 1: an example why this guy helped you win twenty games

1180
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 1: or giving you know, and we don't. It's like it's

1181
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 1: like a good deer. It's like the good dearest thing, right,

1182
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 1: Like all right, last thing. You've been great with your time. Okay,

1183
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 1: Now there's the balance of you've been scratching and clawn

1184
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 1: just to get a head coaching job. You get when

1185
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 1: you build it. Now you got a winner. How do

1186
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 1: you balance the sweat equity you have at Southern Utah

1187
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:30,480
Speaker 1: knowing that you're kind of gonna have to continue to

1188
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:33,040
Speaker 1: add on playing better teams right, Like, I don't know

1189
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 1: if if Southern Utah fans understand. It's like when you

1190
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 1: toss State went to the Mountain West, or when right

1191
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 1: like you touch State had one in the Big West

1192
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 1: and in uh in the whack. Now they get to

1193
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 1: the Mountain West and they're not winning, Like, hey, the

1194
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 1: players are all better here and we have whack level players. Okay,

1195
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 1: so how do you balance out that with somebody else

1196
01:02:56,120 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: who says, hey, Todd times a builder man, and you

1197
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 1: know we're gonna give you five six years to come

1198
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 1: and build at a different level with a greater paycheck.

1199
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 1: But then again, you don't have the sweat eck but

1200
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 1: you have with the folks in Southern Yeah, you know,

1201
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:14,919
Speaker 1: those are bridges you can't cross when they get there.

1202
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 1: You know, I'm I'm so where my two feet are.

1203
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 1: I'm you make the big time where you're at, you know,

1204
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 1: And that's always kind of been my thing, and I've

1205
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 1: been very up front with my A, D. S. But

1206
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 1: make this into the next jump, you know, let's do

1207
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 1: the best we can to do instead of saying, hey

1208
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 1: we I go from here to X y Z, Like,

1209
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 1: let's try to make this the next place. And I

1210
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 1: think that's just kind of my focus and I think

1211
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 1: everything else, you know, I haven't I haven't had a

1212
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:49,920
Speaker 1: resume in my entire career doing this, you know, I

1213
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,200
Speaker 1: don't have one like you know you have. They always

1214
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 1: always you have to send your resume. You have no

1215
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 1: chance to get in the job. So um well, I mean, like, look, dude,

1216
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 1: from from newlywed having twelve teenagers in your house to

1217
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 1: winning Elague championship at a place they said you can't win,

1218
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 1: they're pretty well ride and we're just like in the

1219
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 1: very first part of No, that's the best part about it.

1220
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 1: We feel like we're just getting started, you know, and

1221
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:21,160
Speaker 1: that that's that's our whole deal. I For me, I've

1222
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 1: been fortunate. I've worked for great people, have great mentors,

1223
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I'm continuing to try to collect mentors,

1224
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 1: try to find more people to talk to learn from.

1225
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 1: But I just want to be better at my craft

1226
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 1: the next game than I was the last game, you know,

1227
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 1: as a coach. And if I just keep doing that

1228
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 1: and our whole program keeps that mentality, we're gonna keep

1229
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 1: getting better, you know, and you've getting better eventually going

1230
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:46,080
Speaker 1: to reach your goals. So that's kind of just as

1231
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 1: simple as it sounds simple. Let's just let's why I

1232
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 1: wake up in the morning thinking, hey man, congrats on

1233
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:55,200
Speaker 1: an incredible season. Thanks so much for joining us, Thank

1234
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:57,760
Speaker 1: you so much for having me all right, but thanks

1235
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 1: to coach Simon for joining us. A reminder you can

1236
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 1: listen to The Doug Gotlap Show daily three to six

1237
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 1: Eastern twelve to three Pacific on Fox Sports Traded, the

1238
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, or wherever you download podcast. You

1239
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 1: can also download the Dug got Leap Show. Thank you

1240
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 1: so much for listening. I'm Doug Gottlieb in This is

1241
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 1: All Ball