1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch US Live weekdays at 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 1: noon Eastern on Apple car Play and then droud Otto 4 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you 5 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch US live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 2: President Biden focusing on domestic politics with another trip to 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 2: the swing state of Michigan today. Certainly keeping an eye 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 2: on union workers and that's evidenced by his statement on 9 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 2: the US steel deal. But as we know, this president 10 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 2: also has a watchful eye as always on foreign policy. 11 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:42,480 Speaker 2: It was something he's led his State of the Union 12 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 2: addressed with last Thursday, just a week ago. Today, pleading 13 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 2: with Congress to pass additional aid for Ukraine, and of course, 14 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: the President also has been meeting with foreign leaders in 15 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 2: Washington this week on that issue. We caught up with 16 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 2: one of them, the President of Poland, Andre Duda, after 17 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: his trip to the White House earlier this week, and 18 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 2: he talked about the consequence if more aid for Ukraine 19 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 2: does not come, what Russia could then do next. Take 20 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 2: a listen to what he told us. We are the 21 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 2: nation who was enslaved by Russia. 22 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 3: Several times. If Russia wings the war in Ukraine, if 23 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 3: put In wins the word in Aukraine, he will attack 24 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 3: one more time. He will attack other states. Because this 25 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 3: is a Russian imperialism reborn, and it is greedy, it 26 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:26,839 Speaker 3: will be willing to attext further. That is why it has. 27 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: To be stopped. 28 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 3: It has to be blocked, and it has to be punished. 29 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 3: And this is the most important task that is chacing 30 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 3: the community of the. 31 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 4: West today, and that is where we begin our conversation 32 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 4: with Ivika Selina, the Prime Minister of Latvia, is now 33 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 4: with us in studio, and Prime Minister, it's great to 34 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 4: see you. Thank you for joining us today at Bloomberg. 35 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 4: Is your time spent in Washington today meeting with lawmakers 36 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 4: on Capitol Hill to make the case for funding in Ukraine. 37 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 5: You know, I am here showing my gratitude towards Ukrainian 38 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 5: people because I believe they are fighting not just for Europeans, 39 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 5: but for Americans as well. So that's why I see 40 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 5: it's important that when we look to transatlantic relations, we 41 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 5: could see those democratic values and liberties be met. That's why, 42 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 5: for sure I hope there will be this decision about 43 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 5: help to Ukraine, because it's at utmost importancy to my country, 44 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 5: to Europe, to Ukrainians that those promises and those international 45 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 5: values we all are agreed some time ago, we can 46 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 5: still be holding very high on our priorities. 47 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:40,399 Speaker 6: Well. 48 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 2: It still, though, remains very much a question whether or 49 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 2: not Congress has that same view, whether or not continuing 50 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 2: to provide aid for Ukraine is necessary. What is Latvia's 51 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: concern about if the aid for Ukraine does not come 52 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 2: through to the same extent it has over the course 53 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 2: of the war thus far, if Ukraine does not win, 54 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 2: this happens to your country, what do you fear would happen? 55 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 6: You know, our country is struggling. 56 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 5: Like living in a house with alcoholic neighbor, and I 57 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 5: would say Russia is this alcoholic or drag adict neighbor. 58 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 5: You never know what he will do next, So you 59 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 5: can do your homework, you can protect your door as 60 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 5: Latly as done. We're spending almost three percent of our 61 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 5: GDP to our military and defense. We are giving Ukraine 62 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 5: help almost of zero point twenty five for military capabilities. 63 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 5: But we know that without our allies working together, Ukraine 64 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 5: cannot succeed in a speed we all wanting its means 65 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 5: and NATO countries can get under the target of Russia. 66 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 5: So why are we ready for that? I don't think so, 67 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 5: because maybe from the perspective of Washington, it seems Ukraine 68 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 5: and Russia is far away. But if Russia wins, those 69 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 5: consequences will affect all the world. Also Washington, also United States, 70 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 5: not just Europe, will be affected by this result of 71 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 5: the conflict. 72 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 4: You're marking twenty years as a member of NATO in Latvia, 73 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 4: which is a remarkable moment for you, and Jen Stoltenberg 74 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 4: is asking for more. He spoke earlier to reporters the 75 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 4: Secretary of General asking for European nations to increase their 76 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 4: commitment to increase aid to Ukraine. 77 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 7: What is Latvia prepared to do? What are your neighbors 78 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 7: prepared to do? 79 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 5: We have helped Ukraine since the beginning of the war, 80 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 5: even before Latins whereas the first who gave military aid 81 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 5: to Ukraine, and that's why Kiev is free from Russians. 82 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 5: And we know that we will be doing more. As 83 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 5: I mentioned before, we are already giving zero point twenty 84 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 5: five percent of our GDP military aid. We are leading 85 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 5: drone coalition together with the United Kingdom helping Ukraine to 86 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:10,799 Speaker 5: fight with Russia with drones because it can substitute artillery 87 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 5: in some cases, and there are many other countries joining 88 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 5: this drone coalition. We will be the ones who will 89 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 5: be participating in the Czech platform buying artillery for Ukraine 90 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 5: now because they really need this artillery now. We cannot 91 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 5: let Russia win this war because it will be not 92 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 5: just Russia, it will be China as well. So we 93 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 5: have to understand those links are interconnected, and then we 94 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 5: can lose the values democratic states share all around the world. 95 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 5: We are democracies and democracy is costly. 96 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 2: You mentioned that you are joining that check effort to 97 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 2: get more artillery shells to Ukraine, something we know is 98 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 2: desperately needed. Europe's promises to deliver more shells to Ukraine 99 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 2: have not happened on the timeline at which they initially said. 100 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 2: How else can that ammunition be sourced? What other countries 101 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 2: might be able to provide it, How can you go 102 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 2: about getting it to Ukraine in the more immediate term. 103 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 6: That's why we are joining the Chech platforms. 104 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 5: They are ready to buy from third countries outside Europe, 105 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 5: and we know that there will be many European countries 106 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 5: joining this initiative. We are looking towards India, maybe some 107 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 5: other countries where we can find or the theory which 108 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 5: we are not yet able to produce ourselves in Europe. 109 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 5: The fact is that in Europe we are not able 110 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 5: to produce so much as it is needed for Ukraine 111 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 5: right now. That's why help from allies such as the 112 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 5: United States is very important, not just because we cannot 113 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 5: do something that's technically not possible in such a speedy way. 114 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 5: And I believe it is doable if we can act together, 115 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 5: if we can act together on a united decision. 116 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 4: It appears likely that Vladimir Putin will win another term 117 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 4: as president this weekend. I'm not sure how much time 118 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 4: will be spent counting votes. Prime Minister, but do you 119 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,679 Speaker 4: believe that it is his goal to reconstitute the Soviet Union? 120 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 5: You know, it's hard to analyze what put In things 121 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 5: because you know, he's being a leader of that country, 122 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 5: a neighboring country of Latvia and Baltic States for quite 123 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 5: a long time. And what I have seen this country 124 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 5: has become more desperate, less liberty, less human rights, less 125 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 5: opportunities for freedom of speech, and I believe he has 126 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 5: some crazy ideas in his mind. If we can see 127 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 5: what really happened with the war in Ukraine, so I 128 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 5: can just imagine if he will have a sense that 129 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 5: those democratic states have some crack in the wall and 130 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 5: they are not as strong as we can act together. 131 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 5: I believe he can use his crazy ideas and try 132 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 5: to sweat in and try to fear other countries in 133 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 5: Europe as well as it could be unpredictable. 134 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 2: So that's the Russian president and a Russian election. We 135 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 2: have an election of our own here in the United 136 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 2: States coming up in November. We're also unpredictability was somewhat 137 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 2: of a feature of the previous administration. And we have 138 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 2: heard former President Trump, who of course is likely to 139 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 2: be the Republican nominee, he has the number of delegates 140 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 2: to be the nominee come July, suggests that when it 141 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 2: comes to NATO countries who aren't paying their fair share, 142 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 2: I know that Latvia is above the quota, but that 143 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 2: Putin could do whatever the hell he wants to those countries. 144 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 2: How much does that rhetoric concern you? Do you fear 145 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 2: the prospect of another Trump administration? 146 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 5: You know, during election time, this procedure could be very messy, 147 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 5: and maybe it's even goods it's sometimes it's messy because 148 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 5: in Russia's there is no even messy time. We just 149 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 5: already know the results. So at least in democratics, we 150 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 5: have a lot of very very strong discussions. Lot we 151 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 5: see is United States as a very strong our transatlantic ally. 152 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 6: We have learned from you a lot and. 153 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 5: We would like to do it in next upcoming years 154 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 5: as well. So for sure we will be working with 155 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 5: any administration. But for US, it is very important that 156 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 5: NATO alliance is strong, that those articles which are written 157 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 5: down to NATO Alliance that they have been kept alive, 158 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 5: because otherwise it is really a big, big threat for 159 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 5: our countries, for our democracies. 160 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 4: Well, we're talking about a potential two tiered alliance. If 161 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 4: there is another Trump administration where those who do not 162 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 4: pay enough will not be protected under Article five, would 163 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 4: a Trump administration be the end of NATO as we 164 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 4: know it. 165 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 5: You know, I have negotiated with some of the people 166 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 5: out of White House, and I believe there is a 167 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 5: strong belief in the values of NATO. Nevertheless, how maybe 168 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 5: publicly some messages have been said, and I still believe 169 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 5: in united the consensus of NATO. Otherwise we will weaken ourselves, 170 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 5: and we will weaken not just NATO, we will weaken 171 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 5: our countries. That's why Latvia will work with any administration 172 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 5: and we will have a strong belief that your elections 173 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 5: will be good. And I wish your people good elections 174 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 5: and good processing. That I really understand it. But I 175 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 5: hope that we will not let down NATO alliance. 176 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 2: Of course, when we think about the NATO Alliance, Ukraine 177 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 2: is not a member of that alliance. Ukraine is not 178 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 2: entitled obviously because they're fighting a war with Russia to 179 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 2: the same protections that Article five provides, which is that 180 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 2: other members of the alliance will even put boots on 181 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 2: the ground if necessary in order to defend you as 182 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 2: a country. But we've heard Europeans suggest French President Emmanuel 183 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 2: Macron essentially said it wouldn't be off the table necessarily 184 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 2: to see boots on the ground in Ukraine if it 185 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 2: became necessary. Would Latvia ever be willing to do that. 186 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 2: You've talked about all that you were providing to Ukraine 187 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 2: in terms of drones, in terms of other spending, obviously, 188 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 2: effort to get artillery shells, but would it ever be meant. 189 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 2: Could there reach a point in which that becomes necessary. 190 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 5: I would love to have a NATO's opinion on this 191 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 5: particular step forward, because I believe in NATO. I believe 192 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 5: in those procedures and the analysis what our military personnel 193 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 5: has done. And that's why I really see that if 194 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 5: THEO could be some training necessary, yes we could move 195 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 5: it to Ukraine as well, and there could be different, 196 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 5: how to say, diversions of what does it really mean 197 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 5: boots on the ground, because this proposal was not probably 198 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 5: very well prepared among the other countries participating in the 199 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 5: I was as well in Paris on that evening, but 200 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 5: we reached one good outcome of that meeting, and it 201 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 5: was this chech platform where we all decided that we 202 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 5: can buy artillery what Ukraine needs right now, and that 203 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 5: was a good outcome. So sometimes maybe there are some 204 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 5: ideas our leaders want to show, and I believe Macron 205 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 5: just wanted to show a leadership and what we all 206 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 5: really need. We need to be strong leaders of our 207 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 5: countries to really move fast and to make decisions which 208 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 5: can help Ukraine. But Ukraine asks we have to give them. 209 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 4: If the funding does not come from the US, which 210 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 4: is unknown at this point. We're talking about sixty billion dollars. 211 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 4: It's been made clear to us that that could not 212 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 4: be replaced by Europe. Do you worry in that hypothetical 213 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 4: situation that Latvia's borders would be at risk. 214 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 6: We are at hybrid attacks every day. 215 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 5: We have been experiencing weaponization of migration to our borders 216 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 5: from Belarus and Russia. So we are fighting already every 217 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 5: day with those threats Russia is giving to Europe, and 218 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 5: we have been very informed about what's going on on 219 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 5: our borders and how Russia want to do maybe threaten 220 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 5: our people. But we have been doing a lot. We 221 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 5: build a fence on the border of Belarus and Russia. 222 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 5: But we know that we as Europeans need to do 223 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 5: more in military industry. So in any case, Europe will 224 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 5: change the perspective of how we see our military capabilities. 225 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 5: If United States will not give this aid, it will 226 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 5: be very worse upset of circumstances for Ukraine, and I 227 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 5: believe the outcome of this situation could be as well 228 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 5: as not good for United self. United States as well, 229 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 5: because you have been leaders of democracy, superpower for quite 230 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 5: a long time. Why do you sing someone else would 231 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 5: not want to step in if I see there is 232 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 5: not this strong leadership towards aid to Ukraine. 233 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 2: All right, Latvian Prime Minister at Leika Savina, thank you 234 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: so much for joining us. We really appreciate your time 235 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 2: for joining us here in Washington, and good luck for 236 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 2: the rest of your trip. And Joe, this is, of course, 237 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 2: as we hear the Prime Minister talking about the US's 238 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 2: role as a leading global democracy, the place in the world. 239 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 2: This is something that President Biden has consistently brought up. 240 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 2: It's just not exactly clear to what extent that message 241 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 2: may be resonating with those in Congress who currently have 242 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 2: the power to decide whether or not this funding continually 243 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 2: is going to be provided to you. 244 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 3: Great. 245 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 4: He talks about frequently his visits to his first G 246 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 4: seven as president, when his message was America is back, 247 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 4: and the first question he got was for how long? 248 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 4: And that is something that we're asking legitimately in this 249 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 4: case with conversations like these. So thanks again to the 250 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 4: Prime Minister in a conversation you'll only see and hear 251 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 4: here on Bloomberg. I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines and 252 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 4: Washington a lot more to follow. Will assemble our panel 253 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 4: coming up next for their take on our conversation on 254 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 4: the fastest show in politics. 255 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast ken 256 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and Enroid 257 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: Oro with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen 258 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 259 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 260 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 4: Welcome to the Thursday edition of Balance of Power. You 261 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 4: made it to a little Friday here on Bloomberg Radio 262 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 4: and TV. I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines in Washington 263 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 4: as we assemble our panel with an eye on the 264 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 4: campaign trail Joe Biden moving on to Michigan as he 265 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 4: leans into blue. 266 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 7: Collar workers to preserve the. 267 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 4: Blue wall that so many of us refer to in 268 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,119 Speaker 4: his victory in twenty twenty. With us Today Davis, Bloomberg 269 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 4: Politics contributor and of course Republican strategists along for the 270 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 4: ride as we consider what the president is up to Here. 271 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 4: Rick is joined today by Pat Dennis at American Bridge 272 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 4: Democratic Analysts. It's great to see you both pat talk 273 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 4: to us about Joe Biden in Michigan. He's trying to 274 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 4: appeal to unionized workers who have a history for voting 275 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 4: for Donald Trump, and it doesn't seem that becoming the 276 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 4: first president to walk the picket line is enough to 277 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 4: pull them into the fold. 278 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 7: What does he have to tell them today? 279 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 8: Well, nobody said this campaign's going to be easy. 280 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 9: But I think the most important thing we see here 281 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 9: is that Joe Biden's there, He's doing the work. He's 282 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 9: focused on these states, in particular, these great Lake states 283 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 9: by organization American Bridge. 284 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 8: These you know, three sort of great. 285 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 9: Lake states Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania. We've identified as you know, 286 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 9: all the swing states are important, but those three in 287 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 9: particular for us are like the key place to focus 288 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 9: on and these voters too, So he needs to be 289 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 9: talking to them, be communicating with them. 290 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 8: That's what he's doing. 291 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 9: But also he's doing what Donald Trump couldn't do, which 292 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,719 Speaker 9: is delivering the infrastructure funds from the infrastructure bill that 293 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 9: Donald Trump only ever talked about and Joe Biden went 294 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 9: and got done and in a bipartisan manner. 295 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, Biden did talk about that in the state of 296 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 2: the Union addressed talking about lawmakers who didn't vote for 297 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 2: that bill but still cheer when the money comes, and 298 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 2: made a joke about if anyone didn't want the money 299 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 2: in their districts, just to let him know about that. 300 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 2: But as we hear about this blue wall, it's not 301 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 2: just Michigan where he is now, Pennsylvania also his home state. 302 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 2: Critical obviously, Rick and I wonder to what extent it 303 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 2: is the knowledge of battleground Pennsylvania and the steel working 304 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 2: presence there that prompted President Biden to issue a statement 305 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 2: on the US steel knipon steel deal, essentially saying this 306 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 2: needs to stay in American hands. The quote from the President, 307 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 2: I told our steel workers I have their backs and 308 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,919 Speaker 2: I mean it. And Rick, we already know Siphius was 309 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 2: looking at this deal. There was potentially national security concerns. 310 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 2: But is this really about national security or is this 311 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 2: about politics? 312 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 10: Well, these days everything seems to be about national security, 313 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 10: social media's national security, electric vehicles, or national security, and 314 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 10: now steal his national security. And so if this isn't 315 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 10: the most national security conscious administration in history, I wouldn't 316 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 10: imagine who to compare it to. Bottom line is this 317 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 10: is super consistent, you know, with the Biden administration, you know, 318 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 10: whether you look at it through a lens of antitrust 319 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 10: or protectionism. But the bottom line is, as you point out, 320 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 10: this is an election year and it's all about votes 321 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 10: in Pennsylvania. And I must say he's got a much 322 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 10: bigger challenge according to the surveys in Pennsylvania than he 323 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 10: does in Michigan. 324 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 8: And so this is really critical. 325 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 10: Not just to be able to reassure voters that he's 326 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 10: going to keep jobs there, ownership is going to not 327 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 10: change in his watch. But you know, when you look 328 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 10: at the national security implications, we don't have any more 329 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 10: important ally in the Pacific than Japan. They are critical 330 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 10: to our strategy and Indo pay COOM. And so it's 331 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 10: really a two edged sword for the Biden administration. He 332 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 10: taketh with the steel business, but he has to give 333 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 10: it away to one of our greatest allies in a 334 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 10: competition against China. So I think they're caught in a 335 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 10: bit of a wedge. Now, the idea that this is 336 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 10: anything other than a pretty, you know, sort of smart 337 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 10: domestic political play, I think is sort of exaggeration at 338 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 10: this point. 339 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 4: Well, people waking up today in Michigan where the president is, 340 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 4: Pennsylvania aforementioned, and Wisconsin are going to watch a thirty 341 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 4: second ad if they sit through the break, and they're 342 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 4: going to see men dressed in camouflage with the bright 343 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 4: orange hunting gear carrying rifles going out to hunt and 344 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 4: the voiceover is talking about the infrastructure deal in the chipsack. Pat, 345 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 4: this is a new seven figure add by the Labor 346 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 4: International Union of North America. 347 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 7: Does this stuff actually work? 348 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 8: Absolutely? 349 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 9: And you know, my organization is currently focused on, you know, 350 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 9: finding real people in these states who we. 351 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 8: Don't script our ads. 352 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 9: And we sit down and talk to people and talk 353 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 9: about how important these things are and how it matters 354 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 9: to people and put that on TV. And that's the 355 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 9: most effective way to do it. So that's what the 356 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 9: said you're talking about is and that's a real winning 357 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 9: strategy that we believe into. 358 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 2: Well, Pat, as we consider this is a week ago 359 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 2: today that President Biden was giving the State of the 360 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 2: Union addressed. Now he's doing all of these swing state trips. 361 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 2: He's done several just over the course of the last week. 362 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 2: There's advertising being spent. We know he is sitting on 363 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 2: a massive pile of money as well. He's done well 364 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 2: with fundraising, and yet we haven't really seen any shift 365 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 2: in polling post State of the Union, as you typically 366 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 2: might expect a little bump. So how hard is he 367 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 2: going to have to work for a bump? What his 368 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 2: approval reading is historically the lowest of any income and 369 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 2: president at this time in modern history. 370 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 9: We're all going to be working real hard and these things. 371 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 9: You know, Rome wasn't built in the day. You need 372 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 9: to make the case over time, consistently, with consistent, you know, 373 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 9: principled communication. And I think a great example is what 374 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 9: he's doing with steel workers right now. It is part 375 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 9: of a pattern with jobiden where you see it with 376 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 9: the chipsacks as well, where there are important considerations of 377 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 9: bringing these jobs back, you know, on shoring these jobs. 378 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 9: You know there's a national security aspect of it, but 379 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 9: there's also just you know, you need a strong American 380 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 9: industry to do that. I think that message is really 381 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 9: going to resonate, and it stands in incredible contrast to 382 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 9: somebody like Donald Trump, who like people forget about this, 383 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 9: but have the opportunity to build his towers in Chicago 384 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 9: and in Las Vegas with American steel and actually went. 385 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 8: And got a deal and bought all this steal from. 386 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 9: China and said, what, you know, what about those American 387 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,360 Speaker 9: steel workers. So this is going to be a really 388 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 9: important message and you need to follow it up with action, 389 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 9: and that's what Joe Biden's doing. 390 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 4: Well, Rick, the White House is touting today, I guess 391 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 4: the White House and by way of the campaign, the 392 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 4: first stop by a president or vice president to an 393 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 4: abortion clinic. Kamala Harris meeting with abortion providers today in Minneapolis, 394 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 4: with some very delicate optics here for an issue that 395 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 4: is clearly favoring Democrats at the polls right now. Is 396 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 4: this a little too on the nose for you or 397 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 4: is this smart politics? 398 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 3: Oh? 399 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 10: I think it's probably smart politics. I mean, you know, 400 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 10: we've seen over time, you know, last fifty years, the 401 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 10: abortion issue ebb and flow in importance to the American electorate. 402 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 10: It's not always as intense as it was. Right after 403 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 10: the Supreme Court had the Dodge ruling, and throughout Roe v. Wade, 404 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 10: we saw a spike in people's attitudes toward abortion. Up 405 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 10: until that point in time, it was languishing or the 406 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 10: bottom of the issue scale. 407 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 7: So this is one. 408 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 10: Way to try and get it back up there. They 409 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 10: know Democrats do that they can generate intensity with their 410 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,239 Speaker 10: voter base. They're unlikely to change voters' minds, but that 411 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 10: intensity is critical in an election year where frankly, the 412 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 10: majority of Americans don't like either candidate or aren't enthusiastic 413 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 10: about this race. So I think that using the vice 414 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 10: president in a fashion that somehow might be helpful to 415 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 10: their political outcomes. Number one is important because it's an 416 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 10: asset that Trump doesn't have right now. And two, abortion 417 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 10: is I think one of the critical issues for creating 418 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 10: some kind of excitement amongst Democratic voters. 419 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 2: So is this the best use of Vice President Harris 420 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 2: Is this the best issue for Vice President Harris Rick? 421 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 10: Well, it's not immigration, you know, we started this administration. 422 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 6: That was our first assignment that didn't. 423 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 10: Work out so well. So sure, I think this is 424 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 10: probably a good issue for her. It is a significantly 425 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 10: important issue to Democrats, and so I would anticipate Joe 426 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 10: Biden himself taking a role in this process of bringing 427 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 10: abortion more to the front of the line on a 428 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 10: political issue campaign. I can imagine there'll be some significant 429 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 10: advertising around it, probably closer to the fall, but The 430 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 10: bottom line is that they got to find something for 431 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 10: the vice president to do that doesn't cross pressure voters 432 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 10: who don't like her, and this is probably a safe bet. 433 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 4: Well, she's got more than that going in the portfolio patch. 434 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 4: She'll be meeting on Friday with three people who have 435 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 4: been pardoned for cannabis offenses. 436 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 7: Rick just mentioned immigration. 437 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 4: My goodness, is there anything else that Joe Biden can 438 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,360 Speaker 4: saddle her with that would make her life more difficult. 439 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 8: I'm going to disagree with you there a little bit. 440 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 9: I think that issue in particular is really an important 441 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 9: cross issue that you see, you know, I'm a guy 442 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 9: who looks at a lot of polls and you see, 443 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 9: you know, across parties, a real belief that there were 444 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 9: injustices around you know, the prosecutions around cannabis, especially in 445 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 9: you know, states. 446 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 8: Where it's now illegal, and that is to me a gimme. 447 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 8: That's an easy one. 448 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 9: That's a place where there are a lot of Republicans 449 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,479 Speaker 9: who just don't want to talk about it. And it's 450 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 9: also a very important issue in you know, sort of 451 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 9: blue collar communities and cuts across parties. So I think 452 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 9: that's a good one, and to build on what Rick 453 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 9: was saying a little bit on the abortion issue, just 454 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 9: to go back, it's voters. 455 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 8: We don't necessarily need to change their mind. 456 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 9: This is a place where you look at these focus 457 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 9: groups and these voters have incredibly nuanced views, right, and 458 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 9: those views time and time and time again, say I 459 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 9: have this view, I've thought about this, I've made healthcare 460 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 9: decisions with my family, and don't you tell me what 461 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 9: to do, even if they are somebody who leans more 462 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 9: you know, pro. 463 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 8: Life on that issue. 464 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 9: Like, the reason we're winning on this is because people 465 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 9: have put a lot of thought into it, all Right. 466 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 2: Pat Dennis, American Bridge President and Democratic strategist, and Rick Davis, 467 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Politics contributor Republican strategists. Thank you both so much. 468 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 469 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple car Play 470 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: and then Roun Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen 471 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us 472 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: live on YouTube. 473 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 2: We've been talking a lot about TikTok because the House 474 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 2: of Representatives, with a massive bipartisan margin, passed a bill 475 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 2: yesterday that would see it banned in the United states 476 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 2: if Bite Dance It's Chinese owner does not divest it, 477 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 2: will it pass in the Senate? Though that's a very 478 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 2: different question, and certainly TikTok is trying to make sure 479 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 2: that doesn't happen. There is a big lobbying effort underway, 480 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 2: including TikTok CEO showed you making a visit to senators 481 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 2: on Capitol Hill and reiterating a pretty similar message we 482 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 2: heard from him on this Take a listen. 483 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 11: Over the last few years, we have invested to keep 484 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 11: your data safe, an all platform free from outside manipulation. 485 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 11: We have committed that we will continue to do so. 486 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 11: We will continue to do all we can, including exercising 487 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 11: our legal rights to protect this amazing platform that we 488 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 11: have built with you. 489 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 7: Enter Stephen Mnuchin. 490 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 4: What you say, Remember this is a divest or ban bill, yes, 491 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 4: or that for six months you get to divest TikTok 492 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 4: and all day yesterday we said, well, who would buy it? 493 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 7: Who could do this in time? 494 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 4: Steven Manuchin, the former Treasury secretary who's been known to 495 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 4: make interesting plays here in the investment world, raises his 496 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 4: hand today tells another network, Kaylee, that he will buy 497 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 4: TikTok from its Chinese parent company. The problem is China 498 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 4: has to approve that, right, That's not going to happen, 499 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 4: is it right? 500 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 2: This also would be a pretty price yet position for 501 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 2: the record tens of billions of dollars Bloomberg Intelligence estimates 502 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 2: upward of forty billion dollars, potentially more for the US business. 503 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 2: It wouldn't be cheap. He would need other investors to 504 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 2: get in on this. But again to your point, it 505 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 2: also requires the sign off of China. So we wanted 506 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 2: to turn to a China expert, and Ashton is joining 507 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 2: us now. Ashton Analytics founder, former Department of Defense intelligence officer, 508 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 2: and a great to have you back on Bloomberg TV 509 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 2: and radio. I guess it doesn't even really matter whether 510 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 2: or not the Senate passes it or Biden signs it 511 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 2: if China's not going to go along with it, right, 512 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 2: will China let this happen? 513 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 12: I mean, that is a really good question, Kaylee. And 514 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 12: I think the algorithm that makes TikTok so powerful and 515 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 12: so compelling to users is the reason that the US 516 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 12: government is worried about the national security concerns surrounding TikTok. 517 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 12: It's the reason why personal data that TikTok may be 518 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 12: collecting would be problematic if it were put in the 519 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,959 Speaker 12: hands of the Chinese government, and it's the reason why 520 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 12: the Chinese government might not want to allow such a 521 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 12: sale to go through. That algorithm is a Chinese invented algorithm, 522 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 12: and that's the kind of thing that gives Chinese companies 523 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 12: an edge. Were certainly this Chinese company and edge over 524 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 12: US competitors. So it's not clear that they would sell 525 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 12: it then again, or that they would allow it then again. 526 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 12: It's not clear that they wouldn't. I think we just 527 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 12: have to wait and see. 528 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 4: So I guess the question becomes, what's worse for Beijing 529 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 4: if they did not clear a deal like that? Does 530 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 4: China want to see TikTok band in the US? Or 531 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 4: is China smart enough to know that these kids will 532 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 4: VPN around anything and find that app Anyway, I. 533 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 12: Think it's more of the latter, Joe. I mean, I 534 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 12: think you know, TikTok was banned in India and the 535 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 12: Chinese government didn't really lift a finger to stop that. 536 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 12: I don't think that the Chinese government and necessarily will 537 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 12: lift a finger to stop a TikTok ban in the US. 538 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 12: This is you know, the parent company by Dance, is 539 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 12: a private sector company, and at the end of the day, 540 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 12: this is not one of the strategic industries that the 541 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 12: Chinese government has designated for attention and subsidies and investment. 542 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 2: Well, speaking of strategic industries, obviously, there are the US government, 543 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 2: specifically those in Congress who are supportive of this measure, 544 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 2: have said this is all about national security risk, just 545 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 2: like the Biden administration when doing things like imposing export controls, 546 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,239 Speaker 2: says this is about national security risk. Rick Davis, one 547 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 2: of our Bloomberg Politics contributors, was basically laughing at the 548 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 2: idea that everything seems to be about national security these 549 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 2: days in Washington. What poses the greatest national security risk 550 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 2: coming from China? Is it about access to data like this, 551 00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 2: or is it about critical materials, critical minerals, semiconduct, actual 552 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 2: technology that's going to power the future. 553 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 12: I would argue that, you know, China's hold on critical minerals, 554 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 12: which is it has a virtual monopoly on a lot 555 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 12: of them, is a more significant national security risk in 556 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 12: an adversarial relationship between the US and China than you 557 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 12: know the fact that the parent company of this wildly 558 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 12: popular social media platform is a Chinese company. But you know, 559 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 12: I think that the concerns around TikTok are both about 560 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 12: access to data that users may be providing to the 561 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 12: platform and about the potential for the platform to be 562 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 12: used to push propaganda to US users. And there have 563 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 12: been some studies done on that that could lead you 564 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 12: to conclude that that the platform is biased, but you know, 565 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 12: are not definitive. 566 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 4: Well, so, Anna, are you surprised that this is running 567 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 4: into headwinds in the Senate after all the talk and 568 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 4: the bluster from both sides of the aisle when it 569 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 4: comes to China. The China Select Committee has obviously been 570 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 4: driving the conversation in the House, but this is not 571 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 4: new for the leadership or the rank and file in 572 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 4: the Senate. 573 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 7: What seems to be the hold up? 574 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 12: It's not new, and I think you know, there are 575 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 12: First Amendment concerns. There are a lot of voters who 576 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 12: would be pretty ticked off if they were no longer 577 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 12: able to run their businesses on the TikTok platform, or 578 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 12: with the use of the TikTok platform, no longer able 579 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 12: to communicate via the TikTok platform. Those users have nundated 580 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 12: Congress with calls at the request of TikTok itself. And 581 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 12: you know, I think that there's there's a real consideration 582 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 12: about voters in an election year. So there's both the 583 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 12: consideration that somehow the platform might be used to influence 584 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 12: voters in one way or another and until the campaigns 585 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 12: tilt the election, and the concern that voters might be 586 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 12: turned off by candidates to support a band. So it's 587 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 12: tricky politics and sort of no surprise that it's been 588 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 12: that it's been pushed forward during such a big election year, 589 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 12: and also no surprise that there's uncertainty around where it's 590 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 12: going to go. 591 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 4: She's the founder of Ashton Analytics, former Department of Defense 592 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 4: intelligence officer Anna Ashton. 593 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 7: Great to have you back with us, Santa, Thank you 594 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 7: for the insights. 595 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens 596 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then 597 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: roud Oro with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also 598 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 599 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 600 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 7: Joe, Matthew and Washington with more on Israel. 601 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 4: And this is important here that we actually have news 602 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 4: that the administration is expected to impose new sanctions on 603 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 4: two illegal outposts the occupied West Bank used as a 604 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 4: base for attacks against Palestinian civilians, I should say attacks 605 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,359 Speaker 4: by Israeli settlers. This is the first time we will 606 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 4: have seen something like this, and it's partly why we 607 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 4: wanted to talk to Michael Allen. He's with us from 608 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 4: Beaking Global Strategies, managing director and partner, having spent a 609 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 4: career in national security, specifically in the George W. Bush administration. 610 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 4: It's great to have you back, Michael. The significance of 611 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 4: these sanctions coming from the Biden White House. Things are 612 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 4: not getting easier with Israel, are they No. 613 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 13: I think that's exactly right. The Biden administration is continually 614 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 13: unhappy with Benjamin and Yahoo and the way that his 615 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 13: cabinet is conducting the war with Gaza, the way that 616 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 13: they feel like they're not managing the settlers, the Israeli 617 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 13: settlers in the West Bank. And so this might be 618 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 13: the second or third grouping of sanctions that Biden has 619 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 13: used to go after them. So this is pretty significant 620 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 13: to take an ally and sanction and allies citizens. 621 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's remarkable. 622 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 4: These sanctions being imposed against entire outposts, entire settlements as 623 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 4: opposed to individuals, which is what makes this unique. And 624 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,240 Speaker 4: of course, Michael, we were talking about a temporary port, 625 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,760 Speaker 4: and we still are, by the way, a temporary peer 626 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 4: or port in Gaza to deliver humanitarian aid. That says 627 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 4: a lot about our situation right now with Israel. Senior 628 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 4: American officials are telling Israel reportedly that they would support 629 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 4: a targeted campaign in Rafa, and I think that's important, Michael. 630 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,760 Speaker 4: You can speak to the standoff over Raffa. The President 631 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 4: has made it clear Joe Biden to Benjamin Netan Yahoo 632 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 4: that that is a red line, that it beginning an 633 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 4: invasion without a plan to protect civilians in the city 634 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,280 Speaker 4: of Rafa as a non starter. Are we seeing progress 635 00:35:55,320 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 4: here then, on what we're calling a targeted campaign. 636 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,399 Speaker 13: I think so. I honestly was a little confused about 637 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 13: what President Biden meant on MSNBC last weekend when he 638 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 13: said going into t Rafa at all was a redline. 639 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 13: To me, That's what the Israelis have been saying for 640 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 13: months since October seventh, that they feel like they have 641 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 13: to go after Hamas in all three sections of the 642 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 13: Gaza Strip. We all knew that the bottom third the 643 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 13: RAFA operation was next, and to say that, hey, we're 644 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,800 Speaker 13: not supporting Israel's war anymore made no sense. The National 645 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 13: Security Advisor came out two days later and said much 646 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 13: of what you just quoted back to me just now, 647 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 13: which is that we would we the United States would 648 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 13: support a RAFA operation if it were done, I think 649 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 13: in sort of a narrowly tailored fashion, and in a 650 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,839 Speaker 13: way where they could evacuate many of the Palestindians who 651 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 13: were down in the south and allegedly sort of restrained there. 652 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 13: So I think we are perhaps making progress with the Israelis, 653 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 13: but I don't think the White House is winning much 654 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 13: influence over the Israelis. The more they seem to beat 655 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,240 Speaker 13: up beb Net in Yahoo. 656 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 4: Well, I guess that appears to be true. 657 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 7: It's just interesting, Michael. 658 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 4: We were told a lot about the ability for the 659 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 4: Israeli military, this very capable fighting force, to use precision. 660 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 4: We were told that they would not want to go 661 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 4: into a dense area like Gaza City or now Rafa 662 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 4: at the expense of civilians. But of course we've seen 663 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 4: more than thirty thousand civilians die and realizing that some 664 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 4: of them may have been Hamas. You wonder if it's 665 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 4: the strategy that's being employed or in fact the IDF's 666 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 4: ability to be precise that we're talking about here. 667 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 13: Yeah, I was struck by an interview I heard where 668 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 13: General Amos Yadlin, who is a Dubvish general but famous 669 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 13: within Israel for some of his military exploits. He was 670 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 13: describing exactly what the IDF is doing, which he thinks 671 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 13: has no other precedent, and it's that it's an underground 672 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 13: military And he asked and he cited how long did 673 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 13: it take the Americans to destroy ISIS in Moosil when 674 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 13: we were in Iraq? And the answer was nine months? 675 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,800 Speaker 13: And General Yadlin is saying, you know, it's so much harder, 676 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,799 Speaker 13: but when you have no support from the international community, 677 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 13: and the terrorists in this case are actually underground, and 678 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 13: we know, I think that the Israelis are not always 679 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 13: using their most precision weapons, and it's very hard to 680 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 13: go after these tunnels, which have been more extensive than 681 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 13: they realized. So there's all sorts of factors piling up 682 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,760 Speaker 13: on the IDF. And I think those are the reasons 683 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 13: why you've seen so many unfortunate Palestinian, innocent Palestinian deaths. 684 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 4: We're spending time with Michael Allen from Beacon Global Strategies. 685 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,280 Speaker 4: It was just two days ago Michael that has Belah 686 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 4: launched more than one hundred miss at Israeli military sites. 687 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,720 Speaker 4: We're not talking about it as often. How concerned should 688 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 4: we be about a new front to the north. 689 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 13: I think we should be very very concerned. Hesbelah is 690 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 13: much more capable than Hamas. They have hundreds of thousands 691 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 13: of medium range and longer range weapons. They have much 692 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 13: more training and support from Iran than does Hamas, and 693 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 13: so this is really something the Israelis are worried about, 694 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 13: not only because it would be then a two front 695 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 13: war for Israel, and arguably more fronts than that when 696 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 13: you consider the Huthi, and you consider Iranian back groups 697 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,359 Speaker 13: in Syria and Iraq. But Hesbela is so aggressive and 698 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:53,360 Speaker 13: has so many more capabilities to hold hostages, to raid 699 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:58,240 Speaker 13: into northern Israel. It's something they're very, very worried about, 700 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 13: and I think it's something that we have to continue 701 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,600 Speaker 13: to watch. I still don't think it's over fifty percent 702 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 13: that they're going to go in They hes Belah and 703 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 13: try and start a war. But it is definitely significant 704 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 13: enough that we should be watching it every day and 705 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,319 Speaker 13: trying to manage it. We the United States, should be 706 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,240 Speaker 13: trying to manage that crisis into a safer place. 707 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 4: I've got less than a minute, Michael, Anthony Blank and 708 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 4: the Secretary of State wants to see Israel flooding the 709 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 4: zone with food aid that cannot be done without the military. 710 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:34,759 Speaker 13: Correct, That's exactly right, And I think, well, we all 711 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 13: agree that we should be flooding the zone. The Israeli 712 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 13: should be flooding the zone with humanitarian aid. But the 713 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 13: point that the Israelis are trying to make to us 714 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 13: over and over again is that it's not so much 715 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 13: the quantity of the aid. It's that Hamas is taking 716 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 13: control of that assistance once it's inside the boundaries of 717 00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 13: the Gods a strip. That's what the Israelis are worried about, 718 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,280 Speaker 13: that the Hamas is using it to re establish power. 719 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 4: Michael Allen, it's great to have you back with Beacon 720 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 4: Global Strategies talking with us about the stakes in Israel 721 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,799 Speaker 4: in a political situation not getting. 722 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 7: Easier for Joe Biden. 723 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. 724 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,319 Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make 725 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,319 Speaker 4: sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 726 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 4: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find 727 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,280 Speaker 4: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern 728 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 4: at Bloomberg dot com.