Speaker 1: Falling in love is the best feeling in the world.
Speaker 1: You see stars, you feel giddy, But sometimes that makes
Speaker 1: you do crazy things, and sometimes that means murder. Just
Speaker 1: because the story starts out with once upon a Times
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it ends happily ever after. Welcome to Crazy
Speaker 1: and Love, a production of Katie Studios and I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Today's guests are producer Jeff Shane and Emmy Award winning
Speaker 1: true crime podcast producer and host Lauren Bright Pacheco. Lauren
Speaker 1: co hosted, narrated, and produced the critically acclaimed first season
Speaker 1: of Happy Face, Murder in Oregon, and The Murders at
Speaker 1: White House Farm Podcasts. She is currently working on a
Speaker 1: new podcast, Murder in Miami, episode The Case of the Genius,
Speaker 1: the Control Freak, and the Tragic Wedding Day. Annie Lee
Speaker 1: was born in San Jose, California. Her parents immigrated from
Speaker 1: Vietnam and always had dreams their daughter would become successful.
Speaker 1: From a young age, Annie seemed like she would live
Speaker 1: up to her parents aspirations. Described by friends as sweet, spunky,
Speaker 1: and smart. Annie had a four point to eight g
Speaker 1: p A and was her high school's valedictorian and voted
Speaker 1: to be quote the next Einstein by her classmates. With
Speaker 1: her pick of colleges, Annie accepted a hundred and sixty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in scholarship money to attend University of Rochester,
Speaker 1: where she majored in cell development biology and minored medical anthropology.
Speaker 1: While in college, Annie found a good balance between her
Speaker 1: studies and making friends. She was known as upbeat, friendly,
Speaker 1: and always smiling. Both their teachers and friends said what
Speaker 1: made Annie unique was her personality. While she worked hard
Speaker 1: and cared immensely about school, she was also energetic and boisterous.
Speaker 1: One friend remembered Annie as quote a mouse that roared
Speaker 1: in Rochester. During her freshman year, a friend introduced Annie
Speaker 1: to Jonathan Waldwaski. She immediately felt drawn to the Long
Speaker 1: Island native, but at first they were strictly friends. As
Speaker 1: time evolved, it became romantic. As the pair got serious,
Speaker 1: they both decided to go to different graduate schools, which
Speaker 1: for Annie was a difficult decision as she didn't want
Speaker 1: to leave Jonathan, but Jonathan supported her career wholeheartedly. He
Speaker 1: would never want her to pick between him and her job.
Speaker 1: Following their college graduation in May two thousand seven, Annie
Speaker 1: had it to Yale University for her graduate program. Jonathan
Speaker 1: headed to Columbia to get his doctorate in physics, Almost
Speaker 1: two hours away from each other. The distance would be hard,
Speaker 1: but with buses and trains, the couple was committed to
Speaker 1: making at work pet Yale. Annie's plan was to earn
Speaker 1: a doctorate in pharmacology. She dreamt of one day helping
Speaker 1: cure diabetes and cancer. In July two nine, after dating
Speaker 1: for more than six years, Jonathan took Annie out for
Speaker 1: a day of their favorite activities. They took a walk
Speaker 1: in the park, had an all chocolate party, followed by
Speaker 1: gathering with friends. Then Jonathan got on one knee and proposed,
Speaker 1: Here's Jeff. So the wedding was on for the fall
Speaker 1: of two thousand and nine at the north Woods Club
Speaker 1: in say Asta, New York, and Annie and Jonathan planned
Speaker 1: to exchange their vows in a beautiful outdoor garden setting
Speaker 1: that included a coy, ponds and a waterfall. Sounds just lovely.
Speaker 1: While the wedding sounded great, Annie did joke to her
Speaker 1: friends that Jonathan was upset he would have to miss
Speaker 1: a New York Giants game to get married, But I
Speaker 1: think was just a joke. And they were both very
Speaker 1: excited about the upcoming actuals. Annie specifically, she was described
Speaker 1: as a girlie girl. She loved to go shopping and
Speaker 1: especially shoes, so she was very excited to get her
Speaker 1: wedding dress and to get to be the beautiful, blushing bride. Lauren,
Speaker 1: do you know anything else about the couple and their
Speaker 1: upcoming wedding, Well, they seemed very romantic and adorable. Their
Speaker 1: special song was Jason Mraz's Lucky, and one lyric in
Speaker 1: particular stuck out to the couple, and that was lucky,
Speaker 1: I'm in love with my best friend, which I think
Speaker 1: speaks volumes. You know. Jonathan's sister said that she knew
Speaker 1: that they would be together forever when Jonathan actually let
Speaker 1: Annie cut his hair. And you know, between school and
Speaker 1: her fiance and friends, Annie was really really busy. But
Speaker 1: that said, you know, her friends described her as a
Speaker 1: world wind of energy. But no matter how busy she got,
Speaker 1: apparently she was the kind of person who always had
Speaker 1: time to prioritize her friends. She was a great friend
Speaker 1: and the kind of person who offered to help her
Speaker 1: friends with their resumes, personal state mints, and cover letters
Speaker 1: as they applied for internships and jobs. So as busy
Speaker 1: as she was, she was also very motivated to show
Speaker 1: up for other people in a really meaningful way. And
Speaker 1: I think, you know that's reflected in the kind of
Speaker 1: relationship she had with Jonathan. They were best friends on
Speaker 1: top of being soulmates. That's great. I'm always an off
Speaker 1: people who can kind of be very successful in their
Speaker 1: professional life their personal life and still managed to help
Speaker 1: other people. I mean, it's amazing that it sounds like
Speaker 1: she kind of did it all, and you know, with
Speaker 1: the intention of wanting to cure cancer one day. She
Speaker 1: was really driven and just seemed by all accounts to
Speaker 1: be a really principled good person, right, Like she had
Speaker 1: so much drive, but that that didn't stop her from
Speaker 1: also being an empathic, functioning member of society. Like she
Speaker 1: wasn't a one track mind. She could kind of balance
Speaker 1: both sides of her life absolutely. With a hundred sixty
Speaker 1: wedding invitations sent out, the wedding was starting to feel
Speaker 1: more real. Things seem to be going well. But could
Speaker 1: hyper organized and thoughtful Annie be getting cold feet? Pre
Speaker 1: wedding jitters are completely normal. I mean I had them myself.
Speaker 1: I remember losing a ton of weight before the wedding,
Speaker 1: and not necessarily even in a good way. And you know,
Speaker 1: I wasn't alone that I think it's of women report
Speaker 1: having some kind of apprehension or cold feet before their wedding,
Speaker 1: And Lauren, it's interesting you point that out, because despite
Speaker 1: them being common, those signs should not necessarily be ignored.
Speaker 1: We did a little digging and found that newly wed
Speaker 1: wives who were plagued by doubt before the wedding were
Speaker 1: two and a half times more likely to get divorced
Speaker 1: four years later than wives who were certain they were
Speaker 1: making the right choice. So basically, that says that if
Speaker 1: you're not sure before the wedding, it doesn't bode well
Speaker 1: for the longevity of the marriage. True, but I mean
Speaker 1: I think that everybody has insecurities or tiny little bit
Speaker 1: of nagging doubts. But whether or not this couple had them,
Speaker 1: who knows. By all accounts, it seemed that they were
Speaker 1: the perfect couple. Yeah. I think people surmised later that
Speaker 1: maybe Annie had some cold feet, but again, that's normal,
Speaker 1: and she has so much on her plate, and she's
Speaker 1: been you know, long distance from Jonathan for so long,
Speaker 1: so maybe it was you know, we haven't been together
Speaker 1: in the same room as a couple in you know,
Speaker 1: for a long time. Maybe that was causing some pause
Speaker 1: in her mind. And keep in mind she had huge ambitions.
Speaker 1: I mean, during cancer isn't a small ambition. So she
Speaker 1: was obviously of a career track mind as well, and
Speaker 1: maybe when push came to shove, she was afraid that
Speaker 1: the relationship could derail her ambitions in terms of succeeding.
Speaker 1: On September eight, two nine, just five days before the wedding,
Speaker 1: Annie left her apartment and wrote a shuttle bus that
Speaker 1: took her the two miles to Yelle Sterling Hall of Medicine.
Speaker 1: She was wearing a green top, brown skirt and brown
Speaker 1: penny loafers. And when she got there and he swiped
Speaker 1: her key card at ten or nine am, then she
Speaker 1: went down to her lab for what she thought would
Speaker 1: be a normal day at work. At p m, a
Speaker 1: fire alarm went off, causing the entire building to evacuate.
Speaker 1: According to witness Raymond Clark, who worked as a lab technician,
Speaker 1: Annie left the building between twelve thirty and twelve forty
Speaker 1: five during the evacuation in her lab coat. After that,
Speaker 1: Annie seemed to vanish into thin air. By eight pm,
Speaker 1: Annie still hadn't come home, and her roommate Natalie started
Speaker 1: to get concerned. Natalie tried to get ahold of the
Speaker 1: young woman, to no avail. An hour later, Natalie called
Speaker 1: Jonathan to ask if he'd heard from Annie. Jonathan told
Speaker 1: Natalie hadn't spoken to Annie since a m that morning,
Speaker 1: when she was on her way to work. Jonathan and
Speaker 1: Natalie took turns calling friends and family, but no one
Speaker 1: had heard from Annie. At midnight, Now officially scared, Natalie
Speaker 1: called campus police to report Annie missing. Take a listen
Speaker 1: to the police's initial reaction to her disappearance. We have
Speaker 1: many physical security items in place to help us with
Speaker 1: this investigation, to include over seventy cameras. So the next morning,
Speaker 1: after Annie goes missing, the police go to her office
Speaker 1: in the lab and find to see what's going on,
Speaker 1: and they find no signs of a struggle. What they
Speaker 1: do find, though, is her keys, her purse, and her
Speaker 1: cell phone. Her wallets, stelled cash, and her credit cards
Speaker 1: were still inside. Having covered a fair amount of these cases,
Speaker 1: that's the first thing kind of cops look at, is
Speaker 1: this a robbery? And if all of her valuables are
Speaker 1: still including cash. It seems like it probably wasn't the
Speaker 1: only think missing. What from her stuff though, was her
Speaker 1: yale I D and key lab card. Police also started
Speaker 1: to looking at herself one records and she hadn't made
Speaker 1: any calls after ten am, and remember she's last seen
Speaker 1: around twelve thirty according to that witness Raymond. But without
Speaker 1: her idea or phone, it seemed unlikely that she would
Speaker 1: have gone off on her own, and it seemed more
Speaker 1: likely that something nefarious had happened to Annie. I would
Speaker 1: think that campus would have strict security in these labs, Lauren,
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think about that? Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: particularly because this was a research lab that relied heavily
Speaker 1: on the use of animals for testing, and you know,
Speaker 1: so the lab had to have tight security because the
Speaker 1: concern was that, you know, angry animal right protesters could
Speaker 1: break in. So because of that, there were a decent
Speaker 1: amount of security cameras on the outside of the building.
Speaker 1: So campus police had footage of Annie walking into the building,
Speaker 1: but unfortunately that's kind of where it ends. They didn't
Speaker 1: have the same kind of security camera presence inside the building.
Speaker 1: So you know, once she was in the building, there
Speaker 1: were limited cameras, and they basically lost track of her.
Speaker 1: But you know, the interesting thing is, remember the fire alarm,
Speaker 1: It is conceivable that Annie could have been you know,
Speaker 1: taken out of a side door during the confusion, and
Speaker 1: so that was initially a thought that she had been
Speaker 1: removed from the building. But also keep in mind, staying
Speaker 1: safe was really really important to Annie, and not by
Speaker 1: any small you know, relation to her physicality. She was
Speaker 1: only four foot eleven inches and only nine pounds, so
Speaker 1: you know, look, she knew that she was not exactly
Speaker 1: a formidable threat to anybody who would do her harm,
Speaker 1: and that was something that had concerned her because earlier
Speaker 1: that very year she had even written an article for
Speaker 1: the Yale Medical School magazine and it was titled Crime
Speaker 1: and Safety in new Haven, and in that article she
Speaker 1: actually wrote and offered tips about how to avoid being
Speaker 1: quote another statistic which is just a heartbreaking footnote to
Speaker 1: this whole thing. And you know, despite being a prestigious school,
Speaker 1: Yale is in new Haven, and new Haven is not
Speaker 1: exactly a safetown. It has a violent history, particularly with
Speaker 1: you know, street gang violence. And that's one of the
Speaker 1: things that I would have thought that even more than gangs.
Speaker 1: The obvious suspect in this would have to have been
Speaker 1: her fiance. It's always the romantic partner that police look
Speaker 1: at first, and so I would have thought that they
Speaker 1: would have examined Jonathan almost from the beginning. We're going
Speaker 1: to take a break, we'll be back in just a moment.
Speaker 1: Two days after going missing, Annie's fiance, Jonathan was brought
Speaker 1: in for questioning and he was very emotional when he
Speaker 1: talked to the police. He started crying and he told
Speaker 1: them he had no idea where she could have gone.
Speaker 1: And while police thought maybe she was getting cold feet
Speaker 1: and then she ran off and a runaway bride type situation,
Speaker 1: Jonathan said the opposite. He said she had no idea,
Speaker 1: that she was having reservations about the wedding, and things
Speaker 1: were all great and on track. He also said that
Speaker 1: the last time he spoke was at eight am, and
Speaker 1: police obviously asked him where he was the day she
Speaker 1: went missing, and he told them he had been in
Speaker 1: Manhattan at his apartment with his roommate. He then went
Speaker 1: to campus at Columbia in the afternoon, and New Haven
Speaker 1: and New York City are hours apart, so if he
Speaker 1: was really there, and it seems like he was it
Speaker 1: would be impossible for him to then get over to
Speaker 1: New Haven and do something to Annie. He even took
Speaker 1: a polygraph and passed. Police were even saying publicly that
Speaker 1: he was cooperating with the investigation. So with him kind
Speaker 1: of crossed off the list as a suspect, no one
Speaker 1: really knew who harmed Annie or where she was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I mean, you're right, just in terms of the logistics,
Speaker 1: there's no way he could conceivably have transported himself from
Speaker 1: New York City to New Haven, Connecticut. I mean, the
Speaker 1: traffic alone would have added hours, So there's absolutely no way.
Speaker 1: I find it interesting about the article she wrote. I
Speaker 1: wonder could it be just a very tragic coincidence, or
Speaker 1: was she feeling like she was somehow in danger or
Speaker 1: she was personally feeling threatened and that's what inspired her
Speaker 1: to write that, because what happened to her, and then
Speaker 1: having written that article seems like a very weird, odd coincidence. No,
Speaker 1: and necessarily having you know, also being inside the lab,
Speaker 1: you would not have necessarily thought she would be in
Speaker 1: danger within the buildings of the institution. But I should
Speaker 1: think that that's a major concern with young women walking
Speaker 1: through campus late at night. You're always aware that you
Speaker 1: could become a victim at any point. Particularly again back
Speaker 1: to her physicality. She was ninety pounds, so she was
Speaker 1: probably even more conscious of how easily she could become
Speaker 1: a victim. True, And she's also not quote unquote a
Speaker 1: normal student. She's doing something that for some people was
Speaker 1: kind of ruffling some feathers, and so perhaps she was
Speaker 1: targeted because of that, And she was so vulnerable because
Speaker 1: of her small size, like it was easy to pick
Speaker 1: her as the target of you know, our anger about
Speaker 1: this lab work. The FBI, Connecticut State Police, and New
Speaker 1: Haven Police were all working tirelessly to look at Annie.
Speaker 1: The first sign of a crime came on September twelve,
Speaker 1: two and nine, when luminal was sprayed throughout the research area.
Speaker 1: Detectives found what's called ghost rings on the wall. Ghost
Speaker 1: Rings appear when someone has attempted to clean up blood splatter.
Speaker 1: Detectives now knew that Annie was most likely harmed somewhere
Speaker 1: in the building. The next day, on September two thousand
Speaker 1: and nine, what would have been Annie's wedding day, officials
Speaker 1: combed through the building inch by inch inside the men's
Speaker 1: locker room, an odd smell emanated from the wall. At
Speaker 1: five pm, a cadaver dog led investigators to a metal
Speaker 1: plumbing access panel that appeared to have a screw missing
Speaker 1: from it. They immediately removed the loose panel and found
Speaker 1: a disturbing site, Annie's lifeless body upside down and decomposing
Speaker 1: inside the wall. It's just such a heartbreaking coincidence that
Speaker 1: they find her body on her wedding day, and making
Speaker 1: it even worse. When her body was found, her clothing
Speaker 1: was in disarray, her bra had been pushed up, her
Speaker 1: underwear had been pulled down, and she was missing a
Speaker 1: sock that police later found in the hallway ceiling. Everything
Speaker 1: about the crime scene suggested that Annie had been sexually
Speaker 1: assaulted and beaten before she was shoved into a wall.
Speaker 1: And you know of note, police found Annie's missing I
Speaker 1: D and a green pin next to her body. Yeah, Lauren,
Speaker 1: like you kind of just touched on. Annie was savagely
Speaker 1: murdered and during the optopsy the medical examiner found multiple
Speaker 1: bruises and contusions on her body. She also had a
Speaker 1: broken jaw and collar bone, and a bruise on the
Speaker 1: back of her head. The Emmy concluded that the injuries
Speaker 1: happened while she was alive, which makes this somehow even worse.
Speaker 1: They also confirmed that Annie died of manual strangulation after
Speaker 1: she was brutally sexually assaulted again. Back to her size,
Speaker 1: how difficult it would have been for her to fight back,
Speaker 1: but all of her defensive wounds were in keeping with
Speaker 1: somebody who really fought as hard as she could before
Speaker 1: her life was taken away. And after Annie was found,
Speaker 1: her friends were understandably inconsolable. They held a nighttime vigil
Speaker 1: on the Yale campus and six hundred some odd people
Speaker 1: attended her funeral, so there was a tremendous outpouring of
Speaker 1: grief and mourning. And while Jonathan didn't speak at the funeral,
Speaker 1: he did serve as the head rusher and he wore
Speaker 1: what would have been his wedding ring to the funeral.
Speaker 1: You know, having covered this story specifically during your time
Speaker 1: in daytime television, do you remember the reaction or the
Speaker 1: feeling when you heard about it, or what people were
Speaker 1: saying when this was happening. None of it made sense.
Speaker 1: It have had to have been an inside job, somebody
Speaker 1: who was willing to commit that kind of violence inside
Speaker 1: a medical building would have been pretty clear as to
Speaker 1: where they could get away with things and where the struggle,
Speaker 1: you know, the sound of the struggle would not raise
Speaker 1: immediate suspicion. So they were obviously aware of the security
Speaker 1: in the building. But also think of the clean up.
Speaker 1: It took the police a long time to find those bloodstains,
Speaker 1: and so the person obviously again had access to all
Speaker 1: the things that you would need to clean up a
Speaker 1: crime of that magnitude. So I did think that from
Speaker 1: the beginning it did not make sense that a stranger
Speaker 1: had committed the crime. And it also didn't really make
Speaker 1: sense that the fiance had committed the crime, because he
Speaker 1: wouldn't have had add the access in terms of the
Speaker 1: security card to get into the places where you would
Speaker 1: have had to have gotten into to commit the crime
Speaker 1: or to hide the body. That's a really good point.
Speaker 1: I also wanted to ask you too. I mean, you've
Speaker 1: covered in your work as a true crime producer very
Speaker 1: grewesome crimes and murders and things like that, and so strangulation,
Speaker 1: what does that say to you as a method of murder? Like,
Speaker 1: what does it say about the killer or the victim?
Speaker 1: Or their relationship. I think that strangulation in particular is
Speaker 1: one of the most intimate ways to kill a person
Speaker 1: because it is always about power, and there is a
Speaker 1: cruelty because you are more often than not killing the
Speaker 1: other person with your bare hands, but you could stop
Speaker 1: yourself at any point, and so you're literally taking away
Speaker 1: the person's breath and watching them die in a slow
Speaker 1: and painful way in front of your very eyes. So
Speaker 1: sexual abuse, you know, and of this sort is about
Speaker 1: control and power, and the strangulation is another layer on
Speaker 1: a very evil onion of power and inflicting pain and
Speaker 1: control over one's victims. Let's stop here for another break.
Speaker 1: Going back to strangulation. The first podcast that I did,
Speaker 1: Happy Face, covered Keith Hunter, Jesperson and Jus Person was
Speaker 1: infamous for strangling and sexually assaulting his victims. And it
Speaker 1: inevitably comes out of the need to control, but also
Speaker 1: a deep seated insecurity. And that's something that immediately resonated
Speaker 1: with me about the way in which Annie was murdered.
Speaker 1: Somebody felt the need to control her. Somebody felt the
Speaker 1: need to put her in a position where they felt
Speaker 1: more powerful and superior. Do you think that the police
Speaker 1: would take that information and they use all that in
Speaker 1: their investigation when they're looking at potential suspects who would
Speaker 1: have a vendetta against Annie or a desire to harm
Speaker 1: her in such a brutal way. I think so because
Speaker 1: it becomes a crime of passion, you know, it becomes
Speaker 1: a very personal crime. And that's why I thought that
Speaker 1: the likelihood was she knew the person who took her life.
Speaker 1: Strangling also takes longer I think than people. I think
Speaker 1: it does, and which to me that speaks to and
Speaker 1: cart me that's wrong. But I think that speaks to
Speaker 1: someone who knows the schedule of other lab workers, other
Speaker 1: people in the building, like they knew they would have
Speaker 1: the time to to execute this murder and then cleaned
Speaker 1: up like you mentioned, which would not be an easy
Speaker 1: task now, and so you would have to be pretty
Speaker 1: confident that you weren't going to be discovered in the process.
Speaker 1: Investigators began to look at the entire staff and students
Speaker 1: of the five story, twelve thousand square foot building. There
Speaker 1: were approximately one hundred and fifty people who had daily
Speaker 1: access to the lab, and each one was being treated
Speaker 1: as a suspect. Most of Annie's co workers were cleared
Speaker 1: after eyewitnesses and their access cards determined their whereabouts during
Speaker 1: the time period in question. Police heeroed in on around
Speaker 1: twenty people who were in the building at the same time.
Speaker 1: Annie was without alibies. By now, all students and staff
Speaker 1: had been cleared except for two outside contractors and one
Speaker 1: lab technician. The lab technician was twenty five year old
Speaker 1: Raymond Clark, the same technician who had told police he
Speaker 1: had seen Annie leaving during the fire drill. Raymond willingly
Speaker 1: gave his DNA to the police. Twelve hours later, the
Speaker 1: results came back a match Raymond Clark's DNA match the
Speaker 1: DNA found at the scene of the crime. On September
Speaker 1: sewo thousand and nine, Raymond was arrested and charged with
Speaker 1: Innie's murder. Take a listen to the chief of police
Speaker 1: discussing the crime. You know, the only person that really
Speaker 1: truly knows the motive in this crime is the suspect
Speaker 1: what made him do what he did, and we may
Speaker 1: not know to trial who we may never know. It's
Speaker 1: pretty incredible that Raymond not only was speaking to police
Speaker 1: this entire time and gave them a pretty important detail,
Speaker 1: which is that he saw her leaving the building that
Speaker 1: they used during their investigation, but that he willingly gave
Speaker 1: over d NA knowing that it would most likely come
Speaker 1: back a match. I don't know, I just find that
Speaker 1: very interesting. And something else that's interesting is that remember
Speaker 1: that green pen, Lauren, that you mentioned at the scene
Speaker 1: of the crime. That also became a big part nailing
Speaker 1: Raymond to this murder. On the sign in sheet the
Speaker 1: morning of the murder, the same one Annie signed in
Speaker 1: when she got to the building, like she did every day.
Speaker 1: Raymond signed in with a green pet, but he signed
Speaker 1: out that day with a black pet. So it seems
Speaker 1: likely that he accidentally left the pen in the wall
Speaker 1: with Annie's body. And it wasn't just the pen, which
Speaker 1: could be considered circumstantial evidence, even though it seems pretty
Speaker 1: damning to him. Police also found traces of Annie's blood
Speaker 1: on his boots. The big question was who was Raymond
Speaker 1: and why did he do this? And you know, in
Speaker 1: terms of Raymond, please forgive the pun. But the more
Speaker 1: the police dug, the more it became apparent that everybody
Speaker 1: did not love Raymond. You know, multiple witnesses came forward
Speaker 1: and basically they painted Raymond as an absolute control freak.
Speaker 1: Who made a big deal about cleanliness and lab protocol
Speaker 1: in particular, And Raymond was repeatedly described as a man
Speaker 1: who seemed to have two starkly different personalities. One was
Speaker 1: this outgoing, uber competitive, all American guy, and the other
Speaker 1: was this abusive control freak who was allegedly violent with
Speaker 1: his exes. And that kind of ties back to what
Speaker 1: I said about the control of strangulation and you know,
Speaker 1: sexual abuse, that this is somebody who's threatened in some way,
Speaker 1: shape or form by a female. And police found that
Speaker 1: Raymond had even once sent Annie an angry email scolding
Speaker 1: her basically for how she handled lab rats, and Annie apologized.
Speaker 1: Evidence also showed that the day Annie disappeared, Raymond had
Speaker 1: sent her a text asking her to meet him to
Speaker 1: discuss the cleanliness of the mice cages. And that kind
Speaker 1: of goes back to how the killer knew where all
Speaker 1: the cleaning supplies were. You have somebody who is obsessed
Speaker 1: with cleanliness, they're going to know where the bleaches. Detectives
Speaker 1: also surmised after the fact that Annie was likely the
Speaker 1: object of Raymond's infatuations. He had a crush on her, apparently,
Speaker 1: and basically it looks like Raymond forced himself on her
Speaker 1: and being the mouse that roared, Annie fought back and
Speaker 1: valiantly too, but her size was no match and there
Speaker 1: was a struggle, and Raymond killed Annie, And so it
Speaker 1: seems like he had a fair amount planned out. What
Speaker 1: he didn't expect was that fire alarm going off, which
Speaker 1: is interesting because I think when I first heard the story,
Speaker 1: I would assume that the killer pulled the fire alarm
Speaker 1: and some sort of rules to get everyone out of
Speaker 1: the building or caused a distraction. But it turns out
Speaker 1: police don't think those two things were connected because when
Speaker 1: they went back to look at the surveillance footage, Raymond
Speaker 1: could be seen exiting the building and his white lap
Speaker 1: Co sitting down on the steps with his head in
Speaker 1: his hands. He repeatedly was looking back at the door,
Speaker 1: looking very stressed and anxious, which, knowing what was going
Speaker 1: on inside that lab, makes a lot of sense. Once
Speaker 1: everyone was able to go back in the building, Raymond
Speaker 1: went inside, and he proceeded to cover up the evidence
Speaker 1: of what he done by dragging her body to the
Speaker 1: locker room and shoving her inside the wall. Police looked
Speaker 1: at the key card records that showed him moving from
Speaker 1: room to room as if he were searching for a
Speaker 1: place to hide the body. On the way back to
Speaker 1: the lab, he found her sock in the hallway and
Speaker 1: just shoved it in the ceiling panel. But here's the thing,
Speaker 1: So with a scientific background, he would have known it
Speaker 1: was a matter of time. It's not like he stored
Speaker 1: her body in an airtight container. He would have known
Speaker 1: her body would have been decomposing, and almost like you
Speaker 1: know the telltale heart and Edgar Allan Poe, that decomposition
Speaker 1: was the ticking time bomb that ultimately her body would
Speaker 1: be found. I think that there is something really chilling
Speaker 1: and little bit powerful about her body being found the
Speaker 1: day she was supposed to be married. I'd like to
Speaker 1: think that Annie had something to do with that, because
Speaker 1: her loved ones must have just been in so much
Speaker 1: grief not knowing what had happened to her. But you know,
Speaker 1: I wonder if Raymond ever had the thought of going
Speaker 1: back and removing the body at some point. But as
Speaker 1: the investigation heated up and it became obvious that he
Speaker 1: was being scrutinized, he couldn't sneak back in and dispose
Speaker 1: of the body. But as long as that body was
Speaker 1: in the wall. He was going to get caught, I know,
Speaker 1: because on the one hand, it seems like he kind
Speaker 1: of tried to plan this out. He lured her into
Speaker 1: the lab under the guise of talking about cleaning the
Speaker 1: mice cages, and he cleaned it up pretty well. I mean,
Speaker 1: it took days, like you said, to find any traces
Speaker 1: of blood. But then he doesn't put the body in
Speaker 1: a good place, and he's telling police the wrong story.
Speaker 1: So it just seems very sloppy in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: I don't think he planned to kill her. I don't
Speaker 1: think he invited her they're planning to kill her. I
Speaker 1: think he invited her there to maybe put themselves in
Speaker 1: an intimate position where he could express his feelings or
Speaker 1: make some kind of a move on her. And she
Speaker 1: rebuffed his advances, and that was the trigger, you know,
Speaker 1: That was his fragile insecurity. That was something that summoned
Speaker 1: this deep rage. She obviously did something that triggered his
Speaker 1: insecurities or fragile male ego. There was no reason to
Speaker 1: kill her. She wasn't a threat to him physically. In
Speaker 1: your work covering various murders, is snapping something that happens
Speaker 1: where people just kind of something switches and they can't
Speaker 1: control themselves. Yeah, I mean, going back to Keith Hunter Jasperson,
Speaker 1: it was always when women either ridiculed him or played
Speaker 1: upon his insecurities about his intelligence. You know, in his mind,
Speaker 1: Jesperson fancied himself some kind of rock star casanova, and
Speaker 1: when women saw him differently, that was this trigger that
Speaker 1: set him off in a blind rage and he snapped.
Speaker 1: So I do think that you have Raymond having a
Speaker 1: violent history with ex girlfriends. Obviously, he wanted Annie to
Speaker 1: be his girlfriend, and when she turned him down or
Speaker 1: called him out for making advances, that triggered something in him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it seems like there's a lot of similarities between the
Speaker 1: two those two killers, like the same kind of anger
Speaker 1: towards women and the hostility and when they don't get
Speaker 1: their way. But the loss of control is one thing,
Speaker 1: but the actual remorse is another. Jesperson didn't have remor worse.
Speaker 1: It looks like Raymond did. When he goes outside and
Speaker 1: he holds his head in his hands, he obviously realizes
Speaker 1: that he's done something horrible. Back inside the building, I
Speaker 1: kind of saw it as he's stressed because he was
Speaker 1: in the middle of cleaning up a murder, and now
Speaker 1: he might get caught. But that's an interesting way to
Speaker 1: look at it. Why would he have chosen to murder
Speaker 1: somebody inside a building where he did research that he
Speaker 1: obviously had to go back into day after day during
Speaker 1: the investigation. It's a great point. I mean, yeah, and
Speaker 1: then he's lying to the police about seeing her leave,
Speaker 1: knowing that all these that the key cards are the
Speaker 1: dead giveaway that they will tell once they figure that out.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no way they would his story doesn't
Speaker 1: check out once they figure that out, and probably realizing
Speaker 1: he lost his green pen at some point and running
Speaker 1: about looking for it, and then realizing that that could
Speaker 1: be the thing that that tied him to the crime.
Speaker 1: It's just so sad, and my heart goes out to Jonathan.
Speaker 1: I mean, to have lost your soul mate is horrible enough,
Speaker 1: but to lose somebody in such a tragic, violent and
Speaker 1: senseless way, my heart goes out to both families. In
Speaker 1: March of two thousand eleven, instead of going to trial,
Speaker 1: Raymond Clark accepted a guilty plea that came with a
Speaker 1: forty four year sentence. He has scheduled for release on September.
Speaker 1: Those who knew Annie often said that the brilliant and
Speaker 1: vivacious women would have changed the world. She did, after all,
Speaker 1: go into medicine to help others. Now with her gone,
Speaker 1: we can only wonder what Annie's impact might have been. Lauren,
Speaker 1: I mean, your work speaks for itself. It's prolific, with
Speaker 1: things like murder in Illinois, Happy Faith, and murders at
Speaker 1: White Horse Farm. Can you tell us what you're working
Speaker 1: on next? Yeah, I'm actually working on a really intense
Speaker 1: story about a detective who goes to work for an
Speaker 1: agency in Miami in the eighties without realizing that it
Speaker 1: was a front for a CIA sanctioned drug and arms
Speaker 1: smuggling operation. And it of course involves a murder, and
Speaker 1: so it is called Murder in Miami And that will
Speaker 1: be out probably in September. Shameless plug. If you're enjoying
Speaker 1: Crazy and Love, leave us a review. Season three of
Speaker 1: the Piked and Massacre Returned to Bike County is in
Speaker 1: the works. We want to hear from you for the
Speaker 1: upcoming season. Do you have a story to tell a
Speaker 1: connection to Pike County or is there another case local
Speaker 1: to Pike County that you can't let go of. Please
Speaker 1: email info at Katie dash Studios dot com and don't
Speaker 1: forget to follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.
Speaker 1: Crazy in Love is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane,
Speaker 1: Chris Graves, and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design
Speaker 1: by Jeff Twa. Crazy in Love is a production of
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from
Speaker 1: I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Stay safe, lovers,