Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Daniel Scheffler, and this is everywhere Today's travel commandment,
Speaker 1: thou shalt know happiness. Everything is about happiness, what it
Speaker 1: all means, what it all feels like, and of course,
Speaker 1: how to acquire it. The New York Times publish as
Speaker 1: a piece about happiness every few months. The format might change,
Speaker 1: but the basic premises the same. It is something you
Speaker 1: should be pursuing. Endless amounts of workshops are scheduled across
Speaker 1: the globe, with names like The Simplest Path to Happiness
Speaker 1: or Craft Your Deepest Joy. I noticed that Amazon dot
Speaker 1: Com had specific divisions dedicated to books on obtaining happiness,
Speaker 1: and these titles are even better than the workshops. You
Speaker 1: Are your Happiest Itself or Take Your Path Back to Happiness.
Speaker 1: I don't know where I was, but apparently I needed
Speaker 1: to go back. Remember that episode of Sex in the
Speaker 1: City where Charlotte was in the self help section in
Speaker 1: the Barns and Noble store in Manhattan and she pretends
Speaker 1: she was looking for travel, only to order starting over
Speaker 1: yet again. So apparently happiness used to also be shameful,
Speaker 1: but at a different time. Now, and as someone who
Speaker 1: loves Los Angeles can tell, you here, you are hunting
Speaker 1: for happiness every minute from your uber, from your raiky
Speaker 1: appointment to your juice bar and some healing at the
Speaker 1: ranch in Malibuu. They're all these apps specifically engineered to
Speaker 1: help you find happiness, usually through some meditation for the
Speaker 1: subway or more ex tests of exercising right at home
Speaker 1: in your lounge for a mere six minutes. Or of course,
Speaker 1: you can actually travel to one of these millions of
Speaker 1: wellness retreats where goats can stand on top of you
Speaker 1: for yoga, or you could howl into the sunrise. The
Speaker 1: more you yodel, the happier you'll be. Of course, it
Speaker 1: makes sense to me, But luckily Bhutan has bigger and
Speaker 1: better plans. In two the country's fourth Dragon king coined
Speaker 1: the phrase gross National Happiness, the g n H. The
Speaker 1: idea was to build a country based on Buddhist spiritual
Speaker 1: values opposed to all this Western materialism usually defined by GDP.
Speaker 1: And decades later, the citizens, from my very limited visitors
Speaker 1: perspective walking around seem happy as you can be. But
Speaker 1: long before Baton decided to give importance to something other
Speaker 1: than I don't know, money and greed. The ancient Greek
Speaker 1: philosopher Aristotle said, happiness is in the meaning and the
Speaker 1: purpose of life, the whole aim and end of human existence.
Speaker 1: And who are we to argue with that? The tricky
Speaker 1: part is, isn't happiness totally subjective? Bhutan reveals these factors
Speaker 1: in the smallest and biggest ways, like the fact that
Speaker 1: they cap the amount of people who are proved for
Speaker 1: visas every year because they don't just want the country
Speaker 1: trampled by tourists. And secondly, there's a minimum spend of
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty dollars per person per day, which
Speaker 1: means you have to save up a little to go
Speaker 1: to the country. Basically, it's not a cheap holiday where
Speaker 1: you can just backpack and leave your mark. They want
Speaker 1: tourists to choose it actively and consciously, and therefore they
Speaker 1: hope you'd respect it and value it so much more.
Speaker 1: And it's true I did, and I do so. Before
Speaker 1: arriving at the country's only airport in Paro, Mount Everest
Speaker 1: comes into immaculate view within moments. The plane then descends
Speaker 1: onto one of the most challenging landing strips in the
Speaker 1: whole world, with peaks rising up to sixteen thousand feet
Speaker 1: surrounding us, and then this crazy, notorious turn where rooftops
Speaker 1: are almost clipped by the wings of the plane as
Speaker 1: it touches down. The flight attendant, who was in the
Speaker 1: jump seat right in front of me, proudly told me
Speaker 1: that only eight pilots in the world are skilled enough
Speaker 1: to do this specific landing. It's a great honor for
Speaker 1: them that the pilot is the best in the world.
Speaker 1: When last did anybody say that about a flight? Anyway,
Speaker 1: The country is squeezed between a global giant, China, who
Speaker 1: they are mightily wary of, and India, who they pretty
Speaker 1: friendly with, but they remain autonomous in all their dealings.
Speaker 1: The first evidence of this somewhat insular world is they
Speaker 1: have national dress. From the moment you set foot on
Speaker 1: this holy land, almost everyone you see is robed. Men
Speaker 1: wear this knee length robe called it go that's tied
Speaker 1: at the waist and has a pouch for food or
Speaker 1: a dagger or maybe an iPhone, and women wear a
Speaker 1: kira which is ankle length plus a little light outer jacket.
Speaker 1: The Amound Resorts has created a way to see it
Speaker 1: almost the entire country where they've built these five equally
Speaker 1: beautiful Zong inspired Resorts. Zong is a traditional beautiful building
Speaker 1: styled in this specific Butanese way. So they've placed them
Speaker 1: in a sort of circuit formation, the five or dubbed
Speaker 1: Aman Cora, which combines Aman, which is sanscrit for peace
Speaker 1: and cora meaning a circular pilgrimage in Zonka, the Butanese language.
Speaker 1: So Nam who was my guide, and I chatted about happiness,
Speaker 1: and he revealed that for him and his family, they
Speaker 1: live a life where dreams aren't crazy big, they're just
Speaker 1: the right size for finding them. And as John Reid,
Speaker 1: who's the Aman Resorts regional director but also a bit
Speaker 1: of a prophet, said to me, you come to Bhutan
Speaker 1: to understand respect for others. The country itself feels like
Speaker 1: a perfectly sized dream opposed to a dictatorship style monarchy.
Speaker 1: Jing Ma Kesar Namja buang Chuk married a commoner and
Speaker 1: runs his country according to kid which is a tradition
Speaker 1: based on the rule of Dharma king whose sacred duty
Speaker 1: is just to care for his people. Then there's this
Speaker 1: modern school system with free and universal education and even
Speaker 1: free healthcare. It's also the only country in the world
Speaker 1: where smoking is completely banned from the outside. There seems
Speaker 1: to be no suffering. It's also just so iconically beautiful
Speaker 1: and marvelously peaceful. The statistic so, of course hard to verify,
Speaker 1: but at like thirty miles an hour speed limit, it
Speaker 1: would seem logical that fewer car accidents happen. So Nam
Speaker 1: didn't even understand. When I asked him whether people drink
Speaker 1: and drive, he just said, why would anyone do that? Again,
Speaker 1: it's in the small things, but then there's also in
Speaker 1: these breath taking the big things, like hiking to Tiger's Nest,
Speaker 1: the most sacred monastery in the country. It's literally perched
Speaker 1: on this cliff in the fluffy clouds. Its name is
Speaker 1: fundamental to understanding the country's reverence for Buddhism. So the
Speaker 1: legend says that in the eighth century, Guru Imposh flew
Speaker 1: hair from Tibet on the back of a tigress, a
Speaker 1: manifestation of his divine consort. His reason for visiting was
Speaker 1: to subdue a demon, and then he eventually decided to
Speaker 1: live in a cave for three years, three months and
Speaker 1: three days while atating and in this is where they
Speaker 1: built this iconic monastery. Day to day life here is simple.
Speaker 1: Some people work in the small cities, and it's mainly agriculture, forestry,
Speaker 1: and then of course tourism plus the sale of hydro
Speaker 1: electric power to India that keeps the country's economy going.
Speaker 1: But most people embrace this kind of gentler life, one
Speaker 1: where Buddhist values are adhere to in families, to almost
Speaker 1: all activities together. I had lunch at this local family's
Speaker 1: home and the entire family piped in to eat broth,
Speaker 1: served with their national dish, which is this sewee, cheese
Speaker 1: and peppers mix, all served with rice. Everyone sat on
Speaker 1: the floor and before the herbal tea was served, everyone
Speaker 1: shared their favorite story of the day. How's that for
Speaker 1: a hopeful Monday moment. Fresh produce markets are quietly filled
Speaker 1: with local people buying their goods, chatting about the broths
Speaker 1: they're going to be preparing at home. And so here
Speaker 1: we have people at their finest, belonging to I don't know,
Speaker 1: world order of togetherness, acceptance and tolerance, something that a
Speaker 1: tiny country in Bhutan with mostly I guess a homogenized
Speaker 1: population is able to take great pride in. I just
Speaker 1: so wish the rest of the world could do with
Speaker 1: some of these lessons. Baton, with all its harmony and
Speaker 1: quiet beliefs, functions within the world as its own world.
Speaker 1: The Buddhist prayer flags and iconic red, blue, yellow and
Speaker 1: green colors they littered throughout the country. Every bridge, tree
Speaker 1: and street has them, breathing in the mountain air and
Speaker 1: flapping out pure joy. Some of that's the metaphor I
Speaker 1: have for the country. People might be somewhat different, but
Speaker 1: yet attached to some great ambition for the world. Some
Speaker 1: may even call that happy nous, But what do I know.
Speaker 1: I found my very personal, very Daniel moment of ordinary
Speaker 1: happiness in Western Australia, flying to a little town called Parabado,
Speaker 1: northeast of Perth, where I landed in mining country. I
Speaker 1: looked down from my plane window and I saw this
Speaker 1: rubicund earth and truly not much else. I stepped onto
Speaker 1: the melting tarmac at this tiny bush airport and I
Speaker 1: could smell something dusty and ancient, a life before life
Speaker 1: kind of beauty scent. It is here at this tiny
Speaker 1: building with no gates, where I met Mark Olive, an
Speaker 1: Aboriginal chef from Australia. We had a moment to sit
Speaker 1: down on a little bench right in the Airport almost
Speaker 1: building to talk about nate of ingredients and eating kangaroo. Hi.
Speaker 1: My name is mircoel If. I'm known as the Black
Speaker 1: Boles around Australia and through my TV series, but not
Speaker 1: only that as a judge on the Chef Line as well.
Speaker 1: So what I'm known for in Australia is about Indigenous food.
Speaker 1: And when you're talking indigenous food, you're talking about proteins
Speaker 1: like kangaroo in, crocodile, possums, wallaby, so our indigenous native animals.
Speaker 1: And look, people freak out a little bit that we're
Speaker 1: the only country that eats our coat of arms. But
Speaker 1: let's face it, high protein, extremely tasty. And what we've
Speaker 1: got to remember is in Australia, but not only data
Speaker 1: around the world that for indigenous people it was never
Speaker 1: their coat of arms. It was their actual dreamtime stories,
Speaker 1: it was their totems, it was a life source and
Speaker 1: it was their clothing source as well. So we've got
Speaker 1: to remember that, and I think once we do that,
Speaker 1: it's the inn where we start understanding about the food
Speaker 1: of Australia as well. We have an amazing sort of proteins, herbs, spices,
Speaker 1: fruits in Australia and it hasn't been tapped into anywhere
Speaker 1: else in the world. And we're very, very fortunate, because
Speaker 1: we're feel isolated that we're lucky enough to have this head.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's been documented all around Australia through
Speaker 1: paintings and through storytelling oral story generally right around the country.
Speaker 1: In the day, there was over three hundred sixty eight
Speaker 1: communities the indigenous communities that were active in this country.
Speaker 1: Travelers often come to places one thing to be parted
Speaker 1: and wanting to understand culture and place and history. Were
Speaker 1: you doing a good job champion the food part of that,
Speaker 1: which I think is to me, I feel food is
Speaker 1: such an amazing way into a culture because food becomes
Speaker 1: personal and food is something that brings back memories and essential.
Speaker 1: So for me, travelers come to Australia, seek out Indigenous food,
Speaker 1: Indigenous chefs, indigenous tasting dinners and stories and that's your
Speaker 1: way in. I'll totally travel as what we have in
Speaker 1: this country's exciting when you say these paperboys, so he's
Speaker 1: really embracing what we've got here. I waved Mark Olive goodbye,
Speaker 1: and now please imagine my face when I arrived at
Speaker 1: the car raintall place, and they give me this badass
Speaker 1: mining car. Now to imagine this vehicle, think Mad Max,
Speaker 1: but a few less skulls. But they were gargantuan headlights,
Speaker 1: tires as tall as I am, and a flag sticking
Speaker 1: out at the back. The flag had an EMU on it.
Speaker 1: The lady at the reception said she could change it
Speaker 1: for a kangaroo if I'd prefer. Apparently those are the
Speaker 1: only choices on offer here. The machine came complete with
Speaker 1: a radio for communication, which I had no clue how
Speaker 1: to use, and many many extra tires, a host of
Speaker 1: surplus supplies, and what looked like a towing facility that
Speaker 1: I hoped I wasn't going to have to employ. I
Speaker 1: think I was wearing my black birken stocks throughout this
Speaker 1: whole adventure, because I was ready for the deepest, greatest
Speaker 1: sandy desert. I was free and untethered, and I was
Speaker 1: let loose into this prehistoric land. Of course, within the hour,
Speaker 1: I had missed the tiny sign I was supposed to
Speaker 1: look out for. With no phone service and just a
Speaker 1: hand drawn map that may have needed just one more stemp,
Speaker 1: I was now cruising with some local radio station playing
Speaker 1: what sounded to me like did you redo country music?
Speaker 1: Ozzie girls, Kath and Kim would have been so proud
Speaker 1: of me at this very moment. Look at Marie, Look Marie.
Speaker 1: Right then I slammed on the brakes and they locked.
Speaker 1: As I skidded sideways, just about rick rolling this monster truck.
Speaker 1: I came to dead standstill, right out of any action movie,
Speaker 1: my face touching a handsome kangaroo. Oh hello. He lunged
Speaker 1: his pocket lips at me and bam. Right there, in
Speaker 1: the deepest remote desert, I had my first kangaroo kiss.
Speaker 1: I had my windows open so that the dry air
Speaker 1: could blow through my hair. For hours now, I had
Speaker 1: not seen a single car. I was the out back
Speaker 1: at its finest. The sun was coming down a little
Speaker 1: and the shadows were starting to form. When I arrived
Speaker 1: in a little town, well, what seemed like a little town.
Speaker 1: Giants signs saying turn back now down her, of course
Speaker 1: intrigued me. I skulked a hand and saw a very
Speaker 1: tanned person hanging up their laundry. Oh hello, I was
Speaker 1: sure she was going to offer me a bevy as
Speaker 1: the Aussies say, so, I pulled over, I hop out,
Speaker 1: and I introduced myself with some cheer. She seemed shocked.
Speaker 1: Nobody comes. Yes, She tells me it's condemned and the
Speaker 1: government is trying to buy our home and send us
Speaker 1: away as bestos. If I had service at this point,
Speaker 1: I would have googled the words as bestos and the
Speaker 1: little town's name, Wittenoom, and I would probably have returned
Speaker 1: to my car and run off. But she was fascinating,
Speaker 1: and she didn't care about asbestos. She cared more about
Speaker 1: her home, and so she was one of the last
Speaker 1: three remaining residents in this mining town. I oddly admired her.
Speaker 1: She eventually sent me on my way with some directions
Speaker 1: that made sense, and I found my around to the
Speaker 1: pop up dinner that my friend Paul Is Scoff was
Speaker 1: hosting with his further team. Paul and I stand around
Speaker 1: under a tree and talked about the importance of native ingredients.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about eating kangaroo? So we are
Speaker 1: kangaroo when we're in America, and some of the guys
Speaker 1: were a bit wary of eating it, but we got
Speaker 1: everyone in the room to try it, and they thought
Speaker 1: it was delicious. Kangaroo has lesson to sent that's really
Speaker 1: high and high. It's not farm so all the kangaroo
Speaker 1: here is wild harvested. We don't want to fade it
Speaker 1: or give it water. It doesn't have any hormones or anything,
Speaker 1: so it's I guess you could say free range or
Speaker 1: open range. It is really healthy, really delicious, and there
Speaker 1: is an abundance of tangaroos in Australia. When they're holding
Speaker 1: across the country, they actually spread maybe see. They don't
Speaker 1: compact their rounds, whereas cattle kill. Something that I find
Speaker 1: so amazing is that there's this sort of respectful the
Speaker 1: indigenous people of especially Western Australia, where you come into
Speaker 1: contact with people that are native in much bigger numbers
Speaker 1: than when you were in Melbourne, Sydney with the kind
Speaker 1: of touristic parts of Australia. Here, it feels like it's
Speaker 1: so respected and thought about. How did you decide that
Speaker 1: this is how you want to cook? I think a
Speaker 1: really important thing for us was to do it in
Speaker 1: a really respectful way, and us provision and learn from
Speaker 1: the traditional end. These Abiginal people have thousands and thousands
Speaker 1: of years knowledge and they've looked after country and kept
Speaker 1: those grants and animals growing in a really sustainable way.
Speaker 1: So for us it was about our permission and then
Speaker 1: sitting and listening and learning about these plants and animals.
Speaker 1: And I think the more we do that we feel
Speaker 1: connected to where we are. But I think people come
Speaker 1: into visit it's a great way to be introducing the
Speaker 1: cultures through food. Each region visiting in wasting in Australia
Speaker 1: is totally different to the others. So some of these
Speaker 1: ingredients are blowing these so called super food exam the
Speaker 1: water so healthy. But I think it's really important for
Speaker 1: especially the chefs using them, to do it in a
Speaker 1: respectful way. And when these foods are purchased, if it's
Speaker 1: Aboriginal people wildhuvest, they get paid failure in that they're
Speaker 1: including the conversation. And I think that in the years
Speaker 1: to come, the world is going to see just how
Speaker 1: incredible Australian foods are. Paul's dinner is a long table
Speaker 1: of twenty overlooking an enormous gorge as Lucy and the
Speaker 1: night sky filled our eyes with diamonds. Paul sends up
Speaker 1: these bush dinners all over Western and Northern Australia, using
Speaker 1: Aboriginal ingredients foraged from the land, and he only works
Speaker 1: with locals, real people. He brings a truck or two
Speaker 1: and sets up a truly pop up kitchen with his
Speaker 1: medley chummy crew. It brings your attention to the beauty
Speaker 1: of the place, sure, but the significance of what local
Speaker 1: and truly from the land means is what you're thinking,
Speaker 1: Whose land is this really? Who foraged here before the
Speaker 1: tattooed hipsters came? And Paul, who grew up with the
Speaker 1: Aboriginals in Western Australia, talks about all of this over dinner.
Speaker 1: Why is it so important to eat kangaroo as a
Speaker 1: sustainable meat? How can we respect the land and its
Speaker 1: original people? As I sit watching these courses of unique
Speaker 1: and marvelous ingredients come out from marinated emud to green
Speaker 1: tree antslop, wild flowers, lemon, myrtle, wattle seeds, quandong, sandalwood nuts,
Speaker 1: I could go on. Suddenly I was reminded that no,
Speaker 1: I'm not at some cool dinner. I'm actually tapping into
Speaker 1: a deeper consciousness of place and people and all that
Speaker 1: actually matters. And yeah, fuck yeah, this is happiness not
Speaker 1: for dummies. Now for a slight respite and I'll be
Speaker 1: right back with everywhere after a word from our sponsors,
Speaker 1: thanks for sticking around. Here's more of everywhere. H Holly,
Speaker 1: thanks for being here with me today. We're in New
Speaker 1: York and rainy New York talking about happiness. So. I
Speaker 1: spent some time in Bhutan, and one of the things
Speaker 1: that stayed with me after being there is that I
Speaker 1: don't want to measure my life in any other way
Speaker 1: than in a gross happiness index. There's such merit to that,
Speaker 1: and I wish that so many other countries could think
Speaker 1: about this and not only see capitalism and commercialism and GDP.
Speaker 1: I think Bhutan has put this beautiful thing in the world,
Speaker 1: and if you spend time there, you realize that every
Speaker 1: citizen believes this thing. They buy into it, and they
Speaker 1: feel that and they measure their life in a totally
Speaker 1: different way they do. The problem, I think is like
Speaker 1: trying to integrate that ideology in the lives that we
Speaker 1: have built is going to be tricky, because, like if
Speaker 1: you look at the history of happiness and how it
Speaker 1: has been viewed, you start to see that particularly like
Speaker 1: Western culture, European and North American culture, we kind of
Speaker 1: tried to get the message and we messed it up.
Speaker 1: Um So for example, in the Christian tradition, happiness was
Speaker 1: originally the state in which Adam and Eve existed before
Speaker 1: they had knowledge. It's just this, you know, state of
Speaker 1: being without all of the detritus in our brains that
Speaker 1: we develop as soon as we start thinking about things
Speaker 1: and in ways that define them and and identify them,
Speaker 1: and then there's an interesting thing that happened. Right. So,
Speaker 1: in Indo European language, without exception, going all the way
Speaker 1: back to ancient Greek, the word for happiness is a
Speaker 1: cognate with the word for luck. They're very deeply intertwined.
Speaker 1: So the idea is sort of that happiness is not
Speaker 1: something that you could work toward or achieve. It either
Speaker 1: came to you or it didn't. It was just a
Speaker 1: matter of how the coin fails, so to speak. And
Speaker 1: then the writings of Confucius, happiness and luck are very
Speaker 1: deeply intertwined. So per his ideology, a happy life was
Speaker 1: just one that was smooth and free of obstacles. But
Speaker 1: of course that doesn't involve having a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1: It's not about like I have achieved X, just I
Speaker 1: feel like my life is pretty smooth happy. Well, it's
Speaker 1: not how we think about happiness now, like the world
Speaker 1: sells you happiness in a way that feels so far
Speaker 1: from anything that I personally believe, Like I watch happiness
Speaker 1: being sold to me by advertising, sold to me by television,
Speaker 1: sold to me by radio, everything everywhere. You cannot get
Speaker 1: in a cab without an ad for something that is
Speaker 1: going to make you happy. Finally, and then Greek and
Speaker 1: Roman philosophy kind of twisted that I don't want to
Speaker 1: say twisted, but they evolved it to a point where
Speaker 1: happiness started to be a thing that you earned, but
Speaker 1: it was very closely related to the good deeds that
Speaker 1: you did and living in a simple way. And again,
Speaker 1: the other thing that we have to think about is
Speaker 1: that to them, this happiness did not mean like I
Speaker 1: feel blissful. It just was more of like a stability situation, right,
Speaker 1: like my needs are met, you live well and morally,
Speaker 1: so your soul's needs are met, and consequently, like the
Speaker 1: world is going to be pretty smooth for you. So
Speaker 1: it's not an emotion so much as it becomes a
Speaker 1: way of life, not something that was due or expected,
Speaker 1: but something that you kind of created by being a
Speaker 1: good person and doing good things. Sister, A later defined
Speaker 1: it as happiness would lose all joy if nobody rejoiced
Speaker 1: with us, which is sort of beautiful, right. It's that
Speaker 1: sense of happiness within a community. And he also equated
Speaker 1: happiness with a tranquil mind. So up to this point
Speaker 1: we aren't messing around with the ideas of having things,
Speaker 1: getting things checklist, which I know, how you know checklock,
Speaker 1: I do. The Age of Enlightenment is where things start
Speaker 1: to turn a little bit, and I think the intent,
Speaker 1: as so often as the case may have been good,
Speaker 1: but it got very distorted along the way, right Like
Speaker 1: at that point the Age of Enlightenment involved this idea
Speaker 1: that happiness was a right, not so much the result
Speaker 1: of your behavior, but you were entitled to happiness. Of
Speaker 1: course you're a human, which is not a bad idea.
Speaker 1: The Declaration of Independence kind of bakes it right. In right,
Speaker 1: we hold these truths to be self evident, that all
Speaker 1: men are created equal, that they are endowed by their
Speaker 1: creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life
Speaker 1: liberty in the pursuit of happiness. Of course, you should
Speaker 1: go chase your happiness. That's just part of being human.
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that idea that we should
Speaker 1: all be pursuing that, whatever that means to Like, I
Speaker 1: think about my happiness, like I think we've been told
Speaker 1: that happiness is this thing, and then travel teaches you
Speaker 1: that happiness comes from within. So I spent so much
Speaker 1: of my life looking externally for happiness and whether it
Speaker 1: was in people or places or things, and then I
Speaker 1: realized I have to turn that inside. And when I
Speaker 1: got together with Michael, one of the first conversations we
Speaker 1: had within hours of meeting each other was that we
Speaker 1: would never believe that somebody else was going to make
Speaker 1: you happy. That we both felt independently that happiness came
Speaker 1: from your responsibility towards it. You're very much in line
Speaker 1: with the ancient Greek approach to it, right that it
Speaker 1: is look at me, ancient Greek, the journey of a
Speaker 1: life lived well, and it's not a destination that you
Speaker 1: get to and then happiness chacha. Well, happiness to me
Speaker 1: is like yoga. I think about it like that. It's
Speaker 1: forever more like you can't get good at yoga. It's
Speaker 1: not the point of yoga. You can be good at
Speaker 1: some postures, or you can maybe better your breathing or
Speaker 1: perhaps your meditation, but you never master any part of it,
Speaker 1: because they will always be more of it. And happiness
Speaker 1: is like that, you just have to bumble along for
Speaker 1: the rest of your life, seeking it, finding it, losing it,
Speaker 1: picking it up along the road into me. I find
Speaker 1: like the simplest things give me the greatest happiness. Now,
Speaker 1: of course, I'll talk about Ellen now. And this morning
Speaker 1: I was playing with her on the beach and I
Speaker 1: was throwing this ball for her and I was like
Speaker 1: watching her tooth gets stuck in the soccer ball, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I looked at this moment and I
Speaker 1: was like, so happy man, so happy me and the dog.
Speaker 1: It's a moment like that that I'm able to reflect
Speaker 1: inwards and ask myself, why am I happy in this moment?
Speaker 1: What is that I'm happy within? And she's my reflection.
Speaker 1: She's showing me that joy and I can access it
Speaker 1: because it goes in and I'm able to turn it
Speaker 1: inwards and travel is that teacher. It's the lifelong teacher
Speaker 1: of happiness that it shows you the destruction and the
Speaker 1: decay and the beauty and the raggedy ann as well
Speaker 1: as the princess. Right. It shows you about these things
Speaker 1: and when you're able to see it, you see yourself. Yes, well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just call Marge Simpson Holly and ask her
Speaker 1: what she has to say about happiness. Okay, hello, Marge,
Speaker 1: is that you? What do you think? Well, you could
Speaker 1: be like Madge's twin. No, I have twin sisters, but
Speaker 1: I have no twine. Tell us about happiness. Happiness is
Speaker 1: when Homie is asleep and the children are in bed
Speaker 1: and the house is peaceful. Well, thanks for that. My
Speaker 1: apologies to Julie Kavner for what has just taken place.
Speaker 1: Thanks Holly, thank you, my love. You make me happy.
Speaker 1: Talking about happiness with Holly is of course fun. I
Speaker 1: also have Samara Henderson who has her own podcast Life Stuff.
Speaker 1: Samara and I bonded over what happiness is and even
Speaker 1: after tragedy, how she could still choose happiness. Samara, thank
Speaker 1: you for coming in to be in studio with me.
Speaker 1: It's so nice to see your smiley face. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for having me. This is such an honor. Really, well,
Speaker 1: I found your own podcast Life Stuff, and I found
Speaker 1: you and you and I started chatting about happiness. And
Speaker 1: I believe for myself that I wake up every day
Speaker 1: and I am able to choose happiness. I have a career,
Speaker 1: I have friends, and most portantly, I have someone who
Speaker 1: loves me and lives with me and has made a
Speaker 1: life with me. And then of course I have my husband.
Speaker 1: I meant my dog, but you know, I have Michael,
Speaker 1: who's such an amazing part of sharing happiness. But I
Speaker 1: am able to choose that happiness because I live in
Speaker 1: the Western world. I have everything I need. I'm healthy,
Speaker 1: I have money, I have privilege, I have unconscious privileged.
Speaker 1: I have all these things. But is it possible for
Speaker 1: the person who's living in a favela in Brazil and poor?
Speaker 1: Or is it possible for the person who's disabled or tortured,
Speaker 1: like is it so easy for them to just choose happiness. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a complicated question. I feel as though people who
Speaker 1: don't have as much as we do over here in
Speaker 1: the Western world, who are going through struggles that we
Speaker 1: couldn't even touch or ponder. I I believe that that
Speaker 1: you can have moments, you can choose to have moments
Speaker 1: of happiness enjoy for yourself. Um, it's really a mindset
Speaker 1: thing that you can take with you. So I like
Speaker 1: to look at kids. Kids don't know the value of money.
Speaker 1: Kids don't really know how much they have or don't
Speaker 1: have until they grow up and learn these things and
Speaker 1: learn about social status is and learn about different things
Speaker 1: that could hold them back potentially. And kids always find
Speaker 1: a way to play and be happy and just enjoy
Speaker 1: wherever they are, and I I feel like you could
Speaker 1: really learn something from them. I mean, even when they're
Speaker 1: bored out of their minds at banks or grocery stores,
Speaker 1: they always find a way to enjoy what they're doing
Speaker 1: in their life in that moment. And I think if
Speaker 1: we just take that child like essence with us and
Speaker 1: the world around us could be totally how but that's
Speaker 1: what it is. You know, you can or cannot change it,
Speaker 1: but you just have to look at it and say,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to choose to smile about something. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm going to choose to look at the sky and say, hey,
Speaker 1: that color blue is really awesome and I'm enjoying it.
Speaker 1: Or simple things things, simple small things. It doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be Oh, I hit the lottery, I'm so happy.
Speaker 1: It could just be I had a really good conversation
Speaker 1: with someone today, or um, yes, just like right now,
Speaker 1: I'm very grateful for this. But I look at my
Speaker 1: you look at kids, I look at my dog. She's
Speaker 1: such a beautiful reminder to me to just be in
Speaker 1: the moment. Yes, definitely, it doesn't matter what's going on externally,
Speaker 1: because if you stay present and you stay within yourself,
Speaker 1: happiness is within you. Then So yes, maybe it's hard
Speaker 1: for someone who's a lot own and living in poverty
Speaker 1: to choose happiness external happiness. But the wish that I
Speaker 1: have for the world is to tap into the happiness
Speaker 1: that they do have access to, which is internal. And
Speaker 1: we're all worthy on that. We're we're entitled to be Definitely.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know that it's such a tricky thing
Speaker 1: to talk about because because I don't want to be
Speaker 1: disrespectful and people be like, you know, imagine you were
Speaker 1: impoverished and you how do you be happiness? But I
Speaker 1: think it's just about an internal happiness, and I think
Speaker 1: we should talk about your sexual assault and how like
Speaker 1: you've been able to find joy and continuation of life
Speaker 1: after that. Yes, it it was definitely a journey and
Speaker 1: I definitely had to choose to want to be happy
Speaker 1: and to get out of that slump. It actually happens
Speaker 1: multiple times throughout the course of my life. So when
Speaker 1: I guess starting from about fourth and fifth right to
Speaker 1: my last year of high school, so you know, spaced
Speaker 1: out trauma being a child not knowing what's going on.
Speaker 1: It's I don't want to say that it's harder or
Speaker 1: degrade anybody else's experience, but being a child of not
Speaker 1: knowing what's going on and trying to figure that out,
Speaker 1: not knowing what you can say or how to express it,
Speaker 1: and then growing up and doing certain things and being
Speaker 1: like is that connected to my past? Or is this
Speaker 1: you know, trying to just navigate it and figure out
Speaker 1: what's going on. And so it took a long time
Speaker 1: for me to realize that I was even depressed, or
Speaker 1: that I was that I had anxiety. It took at
Speaker 1: first acknowledgement that I wasn't happy. That was the first step,
Speaker 1: and then after acknowledging that I was just like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be this anymore. I don't want
Speaker 1: to be sad. I'm tired of the you know, I'm
Speaker 1: tired of these excuses of being stuck. I'm just tired
Speaker 1: of this mental space. I don't feel like this is
Speaker 1: how my life is supposed to go, like, if there
Speaker 1: is a way to be different, I want in on
Speaker 1: that way. So I didn't know how at all. I
Speaker 1: didn't know how I was going to get there. But
Speaker 1: just having that attitude that I was going to get there,
Speaker 1: I really believe propelled me to be where I am today.
Speaker 1: So of course I looked into counselors. I didn't like
Speaker 1: it at first. I hated it. I started googling things
Speaker 1: about like meditation and anxiety, learning more about it. I
Speaker 1: read a whole bunch of self help books. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: just took a lot of everything that seemed to work
Speaker 1: for me, and I just decided, you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna let somebody else control the nature of my life
Speaker 1: and control my mental space innocence, you know, Like this
Speaker 1: is my life. I only get one, So why am
Speaker 1: I letting somebody running around in my head? You know,
Speaker 1: and they could be off doing god knows what, not
Speaker 1: thinking about me at all. So I was like, you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm going to take my mind back. And
Speaker 1: I did that, and it was very hard. It took
Speaker 1: some years, it really did. It's still a journey, but
Speaker 1: I am very grateful for where I am now. I
Speaker 1: am so much more happy or so much more content
Speaker 1: with my life, so much more open to people and
Speaker 1: receiving love and giving love and you know, really being healthy.
Speaker 1: And in that I learned how to really monitor my
Speaker 1: thoughts and catch myself. And I don't know, it's just
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of things that I've learned, and it's
Speaker 1: been an amazing experience in journey, and so in a
Speaker 1: weird sense, I am grateful that I had to go
Speaker 1: through all that to get to where I am. I
Speaker 1: feel like I appreciate peace and joy and sleeping at nights,
Speaker 1: just all of those things a little bit more. Wow.
Speaker 1: I mean, you look very happy to me, thank you.
Speaker 1: You walked in here with such a beautiful smile and
Speaker 1: optimism that to me, it seems you've done so much
Speaker 1: of the work. But the thing about it is, I
Speaker 1: guess it's forever, right, Like the work is, there's no ato. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's no end game, there's no I made it, there's
Speaker 1: no here's your golden ticket. It's just a continuous journey
Speaker 1: of growth, innocence, of just self growth and improvement and
Speaker 1: becoming a better human or becoming the best human that
Speaker 1: you can. And I just feel as though if everyone
Speaker 1: tries to do that the world would just be amazing.
Speaker 1: But when I optimists, clearly, Yeah, obviously, Now everyone for
Speaker 1: a time out except for responses. We'll be right back
Speaker 1: with more everywhere. Well, and once again to everywhere, let's
Speaker 1: holp back to it. For my next interview, I'm with
Speaker 1: Tim Phillips, the founder and CEO of Beyond Conflict. We
Speaker 1: chat about hope and how that interacts with happiness around
Speaker 1: the globe as well as in America at a very
Speaker 1: complicated time. Thank you for spending time with me flying in.
Speaker 1: You speak to my heart when you speak, and I'm
Speaker 1: so glad we can do this on Mike. Well, thank you, Daniel.
Speaker 1: It's a real honor of being here. And I love
Speaker 1: hearing your voice because I spent a lot of time
Speaker 1: in South Africa, so it sort of warms my heart. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I have the hybrid South African accent, which
Speaker 1: only if you've spent time there will you realize it's
Speaker 1: not as South African as it could be, but not
Speaker 1: not South African at all. I would love to talk
Speaker 1: about South Africa. So South Africa is for me a
Speaker 1: very complicated place as a white boy born in South Africa,
Speaker 1: as someone who's both the colonizer and the believer in
Speaker 1: change and hope and the Rainbow Nation. It has been
Speaker 1: both to me the shield and the sword. It has
Speaker 1: protected me and saved me, but it is also deeply
Speaker 1: hurt me. I have been a victim of incredible crime, hijackings,
Speaker 1: being held up, I've been shot, aunt and attacked in
Speaker 1: my home in the street with guns and knives. And
Speaker 1: yet I've somehow returned to South Africa again and again
Speaker 1: because the almost blood that I spilt them is part
Speaker 1: of its healing on me and part of its healing
Speaker 1: for itself. So let's talk about South Africa and your
Speaker 1: involvement beyond conflicts involvement. Talk to me a little bit
Speaker 1: about that process that you've gone through personally and obviously
Speaker 1: with your organization. Yeah, thank you, And I mean everything
Speaker 1: you just said just sort of resonated with me, not
Speaker 1: only in my work but in my own life experience.
Speaker 1: You know, I grew up pretty modestly in New England
Speaker 1: and it wasn't until I was in my teenage years
Speaker 1: that I actually got to travel outside the United States,
Speaker 1: and I had this curiosity about the world. But it
Speaker 1: wasn't until I left these shores and went to other
Speaker 1: countries in Europe or Central America, that I really started
Speaker 1: to have a sense that there is truly a world
Speaker 1: out there that's bigger, but in a lot of ways
Speaker 1: much closer to my existence than I ever imagined in
Speaker 1: reading in books or hearing about it in school. And
Speaker 1: so was that opening for me that years later, when
Speaker 1: we had the collapse of the Cold War in and
Speaker 1: I decided to travel to Eastern Europe and Central Europe
Speaker 1: to see what was going on, that I had this
Speaker 1: notion that, wait a minute, you have all these former
Speaker 1: dissidents and people who were imprisoned and suffered for trying
Speaker 1: to create change who are now running these governments. And
Speaker 1: I had this instinct, wouldn't be interesting to bring together
Speaker 1: these new leaders with people who themselves have been through
Speaker 1: difficult transitions from in those days dictatorship to democracy. And
Speaker 1: how do you do that by bringing people together by traveling,
Speaker 1: by getting people to go from those countries of Latin
Speaker 1: America and elsewhere to Eastern Europe, and get people from
Speaker 1: Eastern and Central Europe to go to those nations in
Speaker 1: places to see firsthand. And this was before the transition
Speaker 1: started unfolding in South Africa. And then when people started seeing, wow,
Speaker 1: we can learn from others. There's something about engaging with
Speaker 1: the other outside that begins to slowly open up our aperture,
Speaker 1: begin to open up our notion of wow, maybe change
Speaker 1: is possible. If they can do it, why can't we.
Speaker 1: And so I had the pleasure of first meeting Nelson
Speaker 1: Manila when he came to New York and there was
Speaker 1: an event at the Rainbow Room and I went up
Speaker 1: to him through somebody introducing me, and I told him
Speaker 1: what I was doing. He said, we need that in
Speaker 1: our country. And so I went to South Africa, had
Speaker 1: a chance to meet some of the folks who are
Speaker 1: emerging leadership, from Desmond Tutu to Albi Sachs and others.
Speaker 1: And then I realized that there's such profound knowledge, this
Speaker 1: profound dignity and power and what is evolving in South
Speaker 1: Africa that needs to be shared with the world. But
Speaker 1: how do you share that by bringing people together? And
Speaker 1: how do you do that by literally stepping outside your
Speaker 1: comfort zone. There was something about just that connection, that
Speaker 1: physical connection that you can only get by traveling and
Speaker 1: getting out of your comfort zone, that you can imagine
Speaker 1: that change is possible. When I tell people the reason
Speaker 1: I travel, it's this very notion I can go and
Speaker 1: touched into this humanity and it's available to everyone, not
Speaker 1: just people that are meeting Nelson Mandela or f W
Speaker 1: two clerk. It's available to anyone everywhere. So that brings
Speaker 1: us to a crucial part of this conversation. And when
Speaker 1: we talk travel, we don't necessarily mean abroad. There's American travel,
Speaker 1: and I think at a time a complicated political time
Speaker 1: in this country like now, it is absolutely crucial to
Speaker 1: go and travel America, to spend time with people that
Speaker 1: are not like you, to spend time with people that
Speaker 1: don't vote like you, or think like you, or look
Speaker 1: like you. And as you know about Hopeful Mondays, a
Speaker 1: tradition started by Little's parents. As I refer to them
Speaker 1: on the podcast, it is one of the most meaningful
Speaker 1: and beautiful things that I've ever attended in my life. Basically,
Speaker 1: the story is that two thousand and sixteen s election
Speaker 1: happened and we started. They started a Monday night dinner
Speaker 1: and it's called Hopeful Monday because that's where there will
Speaker 1: be some hope. There's always a cake with the word hope.
Speaker 1: On it, and we go around the room and everybody
Speaker 1: shares what they're hopeful for. And next year we want
Speaker 1: to take it on the road and share this hope
Speaker 1: with other people, with people that you wouldn't necessarily have
Speaker 1: in your realm. So to me, it is such a
Speaker 1: difficult time in America for many people. We need to
Speaker 1: go and understand that. So I think what we should
Speaker 1: talk about is what do you envision as something you
Speaker 1: could do, something that ordinary people could do here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really interesting that, you know, I'm almost in American,
Speaker 1: but at the same time spent the last thirty years
Speaker 1: mostly working around the world, working in about seventy five countries,
Speaker 1: very much with this notion of shared human experience, you know,
Speaker 1: bringing in people, often former enemies, who couldn't imagine the
Speaker 1: change was possible in their country. And I remember friends
Speaker 1: from South Africa and Northern Ireland, Central America, the Middle
Speaker 1: East have been saying to me as an American for
Speaker 1: more than ten years, you know, you need to focus
Speaker 1: on our country. You need to really look inward and
Speaker 1: see the things that make us deeply concerned. And I
Speaker 1: would say, well, I can imagine. I mean, we do
Speaker 1: have some profound problems, and they're like, I don't think
Speaker 1: you realize that a lot of the same things that
Speaker 1: we've experienced, those mindsets, those fears we see developing in
Speaker 1: your country, sort of like canaries in a coal mine.
Speaker 1: And yet here we are in two thousand and nineteen
Speaker 1: in a place that I think a lot of Americans
Speaker 1: never imagined they would be in. And so what we're
Speaker 1: starting to do as an organization is normally look within
Speaker 1: the country to say, what do we need to do
Speaker 1: as a country, But what can we learn from the
Speaker 1: experience of all these other countries that have struggled to
Speaker 1: change to bring those insights to this country. So it's
Speaker 1: a combination. And the way I see it, we see
Speaker 1: it is we need to listen to each other and
Speaker 1: not purely in these sort of intuitive ways of people saying, okay,
Speaker 1: you need to state either your privilege or your position,
Speaker 1: or how you're victimized to what is sacred to you,
Speaker 1: what is important to you, what do you fear? Because
Speaker 1: we live in a big, diverse country, and those divides
Speaker 1: are going from a you and I mindset to an
Speaker 1: US versus them. And the more we go to an
Speaker 1: US versus them mindset, the more difficult it would be
Speaker 1: for us to really not just reconcile, but to find
Speaker 1: what we have in common ast Americans. We see that happening,
Speaker 1: and one of the things that we have been doing
Speaker 1: is working with brain and behavioral scientists, and one of
Speaker 1: the things they know from just the research is that
Speaker 1: when you go to an US versus the mindset, a
Speaker 1: whole range of unconscious psychological processes come online to really
Speaker 1: push us further apart. Those sort of creup identities, sort
Speaker 1: of features of our brain to look for difference, really
Speaker 1: kick in and unconsciously we make choices, we make decisions
Speaker 1: that further pull us apart. And so how do we
Speaker 1: approach this deepening divide in America? And one way is
Speaker 1: to bring those people from outside who have been through
Speaker 1: change to our country. The way, in a sense, we
Speaker 1: set the table in other countries as Americans over the
Speaker 1: last twenty five thirty years to help people learn from
Speaker 1: each other. And now there's a certain beauty and certain
Speaker 1: um serendipity elegance that they want to come here and
Speaker 1: share their experience with Americans, not in a lecturing way,
Speaker 1: not in a hectoring way, but to say, don't make
Speaker 1: the mistakes we made. What we had to do in
Speaker 1: South Africa, what we tried to do in Northern Ireland
Speaker 1: but we struggled with still in the Middle East, is
Speaker 1: that we dehumanized, demonized each other, We delegitimatized each other
Speaker 1: so much that will take generations to build a sense
Speaker 1: of a common humanity as people in the same nation.
Speaker 1: Different interests, maybe different ideologies, but we're still you and I.
Speaker 1: We're not us first as them. And so the notion
Speaker 1: is how do we bring that shared human powerful experience home.
Speaker 1: And it's really powerful because it says you've got to
Speaker 1: treat people with dignity, no matter who they are, right
Speaker 1: as Mandela would say, don't be tough on people, be
Speaker 1: tough on structures, be tough in institutions. So that was
Speaker 1: sort of our m O was we, you know, sort
Speaker 1: of curate and convene leaders to go into countries who
Speaker 1: are struggling with different types of change. And then about
Speaker 1: ten years ago I met a neuroscientist who said to
Speaker 1: me one day, you know, we're not rational beings with emotions.
Speaker 1: He said, speaking as a scientist, it's just the opposite.
Speaker 1: We are emotionally based beings who can only think rationally
Speaker 1: when we feel that our identities are understood and valued
Speaker 1: by others. And I was like, holy shit, I said,
Speaker 1: you just collapsed everything I've experienced in the previous twenty
Speaker 1: five years, everything I've experienced in my own lifetime. And
Speaker 1: I sat back and I thought, the Enlightenment got it wrong.
Speaker 1: We are not these rational beings with emotions. It's just
Speaker 1: the opposite. The Enlightenment was based on the emergence of
Speaker 1: science and that we are not only these rational beings,
Speaker 1: but we're better than all other species, which we also
Speaker 1: know as bs. Right, But now it's science who's saying
Speaker 1: to us, no, no, no, no, focus on how we
Speaker 1: think as humans, not what we think, because how we
Speaker 1: think is so deeply unconscious, and our unconscious and mostly
Speaker 1: based brain literally shapes our capacity to be rational. That's
Speaker 1: how we navigate the world. I mean literally every moment,
Speaker 1: every day, our brains are predicting our social environment on
Speaker 1: my slow it down the totem Polese scale. I say
Speaker 1: this all the time. It's never the one, it's always
Speaker 1: the how. And I say that about travel. No, I'm
Speaker 1: not telling you when to go, way to eat, way
Speaker 1: to stay, what to see. I'm telling you how to
Speaker 1: be there right, how to be yourself there. People ask
Speaker 1: me for the travel recommendations and I say, nope, you
Speaker 1: can figure out where to go get coffee by yourself.
Speaker 1: But what you can figure out is an attitude, and
Speaker 1: I'll help you with that. You know what's really cool
Speaker 1: about travel? Have you ever noticed when you go to
Speaker 1: a completely new city or place, you see more alert.
Speaker 1: That's your brain coming online because it's a new place.
Speaker 1: That predictive brain I just mentioned, all of a sudden
Speaker 1: comes online and says I'm in a new environment. I
Speaker 1: don't know this, I need to understand it. Travel does
Speaker 1: more to increase neural activity, create new neural connections just
Speaker 1: because you're rain without you explicitly sitting here saying okay,
Speaker 1: time to kick ahad does it automatically? Notice everywhere you
Speaker 1: go somewhere new and different, your brain becomes more active,
Speaker 1: more aware, and more alert and expands literally more energy
Speaker 1: because it needs to understand this environment. That's the great
Speaker 1: thing about travel as well. So thank you for spending
Speaker 1: time with me. This is the beginning of many conversations.
Speaker 1: I know. Well, I thank you, Daniel, It's been extraordinary. Well,
Speaker 1: I had a good time. I hope you did too.
Speaker 1: If you'd like to reach us, go to Everywhere Podcast
Speaker 1: on Instagram, everywhere pot on Twitter, all the website, everywhere
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. I'm Daniel Scheffler signing off. I'll be
Speaker 1: seeing you everywhere