Speaker 1: I've heard that there's a house and has some bodies
Speaker 1: in the basement. Somebody told you that Hicaia was a
Speaker 1: victim of human trafficking.
Speaker 2: I'm come to find out. This is like it exploded
Speaker 2: into this huge thing.
Speaker 1: I knew, I just knew something was wrong.
Speaker 2: Police say thirty three year old Jared Bridigan was shot dead.
Speaker 1: I kept calling his phone during the drive. Gunned down
Speaker 1: in front of his two year old daughter.
Speaker 3: It's a murder of the stun jack speech neighbors.
Speaker 1: His murder has attracted national attention, with the investigators saying
Speaker 1: he was targeted.
Speaker 2: Eventually, a police officer answered and told me to come
Speaker 2: to the police station.
Speaker 3: Justice is something that takes different shapes reformed.
Speaker 1: If you know something, heard something, please it's never too
Speaker 1: late to.
Speaker 4: Do the right thing.
Speaker 2: So I'm Dana Thompson aka Body Movin, and.
Speaker 3: I'm John Green. For about a decade, Deanna and I
Speaker 3: spent a lot of time on the Internet, especially in
Speaker 3: the underbelly of the Internet, trying to identify and get
Speaker 3: animal abusers arrested.
Speaker 2: We spent countless hours scouring the dark web helping catch predators.
Speaker 2: We spent over a year and a half trying to
Speaker 2: get law enforcement to take us seriously about a man
Speaker 2: that was killing cats online and he was threatening to
Speaker 2: move on to kill humans. And that was Luca mcnauta.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you might have heard about the Netflix special called
Speaker 3: Don't Fuck with Cats.
Speaker 2: That's us. Well, now we're turning our online investigator skills
Speaker 2: to some of the most unexplained, unsolved, and just ignored cases.
Speaker 3: This is True Crimes, the production of iHeartRadio and Kat's Studios.
Speaker 3: At the end of our last episode, we were learning
Speaker 3: about a couple of new players in the missing person's
Speaker 3: case of Chicaia Blue Harding. One person of interest was
Speaker 3: a man named Rico.
Speaker 2: So of course I have to look at Arica Wallace, right.
Speaker 2: Who's this guy?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: So I did a search for Ricol Wallace. The first
Speaker 2: thing that popped up was Tammy Bear comes Out. Tammy
Speaker 2: posted a lengthy post and she said, you know, Chikaia
Speaker 2: was at tumble Meat Tumbleweed here in Billings where she
Speaker 2: met Rome big Day and Rico Wallace. Rico spent three
Speaker 2: months grooming her before she disappeared. Okay, I've got to
Speaker 2: get information about Rico Wallace, right, and this uh Rome
Speaker 2: big Day. So Rico Wallace. Right, he's got several Facebook profiles,
Speaker 2: none of them have any information on them except for
Speaker 2: he spells his name differently in all of them. Whatever.
Speaker 2: So I was like, all right, let me just do
Speaker 2: a general Google search, right, and I found out he
Speaker 2: is in the Yellowstone County jail right now with a
Speaker 2: sexual intercourse without consent charge. He has not been tried.
Speaker 2: He's stolen like county jail. And it made me start
Speaker 2: thinking like, is it possible if he knows where Chikaia is,
Speaker 2: is it possible that he will exchange information for like
Speaker 2: a plea? Right? And it got me worried, like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, we're right in the middle of this, because
Speaker 2: this is happening right now.
Speaker 3: So we've been digging into both Jared Bridigan's murder and
Speaker 3: Shakaia blue Harding's disappearance for a while now, and we
Speaker 3: found some really interesting information that may lead us somewhere.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of like threads that we need
Speaker 2: to pull at. Some are probably dead ends and maybe
Speaker 2: a waste of time, but there are a few really
Speaker 2: good ones that look promising. So I think what we
Speaker 2: need to do is get more information on Shikaia, and
Speaker 2: we need to get on the phone with her older sister, Shawnee.
Speaker 2: I'd really like to talk to her about the man
Speaker 2: Shakaia was hanging out with right before she disappeared, Rigal Wallace.
Speaker 3: I have Shawnee on the line with us. H.
Speaker 5: Hello, how are you? I'm good? How are you.
Speaker 1: Behind that work? I'd of like stressing out how.
Speaker 2: I'm going to go on newt then, just so you know, just.
Speaker 4: Because on that work.
Speaker 1: Okay, it sounds like it's noisy, Okay, okay, so real quick.
Speaker 3: We just kind of wanted to get you kind of
Speaker 3: fill you in on what we've been doing. We have
Speaker 3: been like scouring the internet for everything we can find,
Speaker 3: looking for things. We've been trying to reach out people
Speaker 3: to speak with them.
Speaker 2: These are just like social media profiles and like links
Speaker 2: to the official investigation and a lot of stuff about Rico.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, because.
Speaker 2: Another guy named Romelo big Day.
Speaker 3: What can you tell us about him?
Speaker 5: Well, they call him Liz right on the streets. He
Speaker 5: was also part of the Tumbleweed gang. When we first
Speaker 5: started looking for Chikaia, he was sitting across the street
Speaker 5: and I don't know if you just knew that we
Speaker 5: were looking because we had passed by a couple of times,
Speaker 5: but he was kind of avoiding us. When we asked
Speaker 5: him if he knew who Chikaia was, he straight out,
Speaker 5: like flat out refused that he knew anything about her.
Speaker 5: When later came the Investiga investigations started rolling out more
Speaker 5: he did in fact know her.
Speaker 3: So were and him friends as well or associates.
Speaker 2: From what I can gather, they work together.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that they teamed up, and.
Speaker 2: You know, he's not a good guy, so I kind
Speaker 2: of wondered if him and Rico were in cahoots, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean?
Speaker 5: Yeah, from what I understood, he uses him to help
Speaker 5: him recruit locally.
Speaker 1: Oh you mean Rico uses him?
Speaker 2: Yes, you're right, because Rico's Diego, right, Yeah, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 5: That is a conversation that she had with Aaron Peterson.
Speaker 5: This is just what Aaron told me, So I don't
Speaker 5: know what is actually true, but he said she kaya
Speaker 5: told him she was going to meet Rico and they
Speaker 5: were going towards the North Park. And so when he
Speaker 5: couldn't convince Chikaia to not go, to give her a knife,
Speaker 5: I think what it was a knife to protect herself.
Speaker 3: So she was going to go talk to Rico. Aaron
Speaker 3: tries to talk to her out of it and say
Speaker 3: don't go see him. She goes anyways, and he gives
Speaker 3: her a knife, saying, here, take this as protection. And
Speaker 3: is that then the last time she's seen or is
Speaker 3: she seen after this?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: So if what her friend Aaron is saying is true,
Speaker 3: and this is totally not substantiated yet, then she was
Speaker 3: scared enough of Rico and Romelo to bring a knife
Speaker 3: to their meeting.
Speaker 2: From what we can gather from talking to Shawnee and
Speaker 2: Chicaia's social media accounts, she was friends with Rico and Romelo.
Speaker 2: The nature of the relationship is not completely clear. After
Speaker 2: our conversation with Shawnee, I went and did my own research,
Speaker 2: which I shared with you. There's two different accounts of
Speaker 2: her going this thing. One is that she was last
Speaker 2: seen at Tumbleweed getting into like a red truck. In another,
Speaker 2: Jamilstone County Sheriffs she was last seen on Whenevisa drive.
Speaker 2: And there's all these people that are in her daily life, right,
Speaker 2: There's Aaron, there's Rico, there's Romelo, and we don't really
Speaker 2: know exactly what roles those people played in her life.
Speaker 2: Rico is in jail right now for rape sexual assault,
Speaker 2: all right. So okay, now I gotta look at Rome
Speaker 2: big Day, right, well, this is creepy. So I started
Speaker 2: looking at him this morning, and he has several profiles.
Speaker 2: He says he's a digital artist, like he's a rapper, okay,
Speaker 2: And all of his profile photos are of a rapper
Speaker 2: named Polo g. So he's got one account and it's
Speaker 2: called Romelo big Day, that's his full name. And on
Speaker 2: that profile he's sharing a bunch of like pictures and
Speaker 2: whatnot from a guy named Melo the Down right, And
Speaker 2: that triggered me because Don is like, you know, mafia boss, right,
Speaker 2: So I went to Melo the Don and sure enough,
Speaker 2: on that we on that Facebook page he shared his
Speaker 2: Montana Department of Corrections identification card like a freakin' moron,
Speaker 2: all right. And and I mean, I'm like, are you
Speaker 2: kidding me? Right now? It's got his DOB, his full
Speaker 2: legal name, his photo, like what he looks like, his address,
Speaker 2: like everything, all right. So he's got those those two profiles.
Speaker 2: I go back to Romelo big Day's profile and when
Speaker 2: I went back, the name changed. What the name changed?
Speaker 2: He changed his name on his Facebook page while I
Speaker 2: was looking at it, and I'll tell you what, if
Speaker 2: anybody knows about our Luca investigation, the deja vous that
Speaker 2: I got from from from that happening, it blew. I mean,
Speaker 2: I I texted you immediately right and I said, I
Speaker 2: can't believe this just happened. I'll tell you about it tonight.
Speaker 2: Like it freaked me the heck out. And I didn't
Speaker 2: like anything on his page. I didn't do anything, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. I looked, I'm like, did I accidentally?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no way he would have known somebody.
Speaker 2: No way, no way. I looked at my activity log
Speaker 2: on Facebook and I'm like, did I accently?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: Did he anyway? Nothing he changed yet while I was
Speaker 2: looking at it to Polo Capalot and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: so I did a Google search for a Romelo big day, dude.
Speaker 2: This guy's not a good guy. He has several charges
Speaker 2: of sexual assault several.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I don't know if he's part of this
Speaker 2: or not. But Shakaya was hanging around with him at Tumbleweed.
Speaker 2: According to Tammy Bear comes out her mother.
Speaker 3: Okay, so today would be day three for our search
Speaker 3: into Sekaiah. Something interesting happened earlier. Body came across a
Speaker 3: comment on Facebook by a person by the name of
Speaker 3: Michael and said, I seen a story on Facebook yesterday
Speaker 3: about girls going missing from Billings. One got away and
Speaker 3: told a story of about twenty or so girls being
Speaker 3: kept against their will. If she went missing around Billings, Montana,
Speaker 3: it might be worth looking into now. Sophie, which I
Speaker 3: believe is a relative of Chakaia, responded, Yes, we have
Speaker 3: heard about a house way out on Grand, but I
Speaker 3: haven't gotten the exact location. I hear they have a
Speaker 3: house way out there that they have been keeping women.
Speaker 3: Gianna felt like this was very, very important, so she
Speaker 3: actually reached out to the producers over at KT Studios.
Speaker 3: She sent them an email asking about this house, if
Speaker 3: there's any relevancy or if there's any importance, And shortly
Speaker 3: after that, Boddy and I started getting text messages from
Speaker 3: Stephanie at KT. She send us a text with four images.
Speaker 3: Three are of a house and some vehicles, and the
Speaker 3: fourth image she says, Hi, it's Stephanie at KAT, nice
Speaker 3: speaking with you. Here are the photos I mentioned. You'll
Speaker 3: notice that to the left of the front door there's
Speaker 3: a round camera. Those are the cars parked next to
Speaker 3: it and the school up the street.
Speaker 2: So John, we went to Crime Con in Vegas and
Speaker 2: as part of Crime Con, we were kind of in
Speaker 2: the green room, you know, getting ready to go do
Speaker 2: our talk on ocent and stuff. And in the green room,
Speaker 2: Stephanie Lydecker and Courtney 'mstrong approached me, and Stephanie from
Speaker 2: KAT Studios was talking about wanting to work together on
Speaker 2: a project in the future, and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, and I gave her my contact information and
Speaker 2: I'm really like public about like my passion for getting
Speaker 2: awareness out about the MMIW movement. And I think through that,
Speaker 2: you know, we kind of hooked up. So KAT Studios,
Speaker 2: you know, there's Stephanie Leidecker, Courtney Armstrong, Jeff Shane, and
Speaker 2: Andrew Arnell. They did their own show on MMIW all right,
Speaker 2: and it was called The Missing and Murdered in Montana,
Speaker 2: and through that they hired an investigator named Mike tooth Well.
Speaker 2: In twenty nineteen, the producers from KAT Studios went to Billings,
Speaker 2: Montana and they looked at that house that we were
Speaker 2: interested in, and they were able to get photos, but
Speaker 2: they weren't able to get the exact address, because it's
Speaker 2: like a weird it's like a weird little building.
Speaker 3: In the summer of twenty nineteen, the KT Studios team
Speaker 3: went to bill Montana and heard about this same house.
Speaker 3: They were able to obtain photos of it, but we
Speaker 3: still don't have the address. So this is my forte.
Speaker 3: This is where I'm good at. I'm good at finding locations,
Speaker 3: specifically using Google Maps. So the comment that body found
Speaker 3: on Facebook, Stephanie sending us this picture saying, yes, there's
Speaker 3: a house we've been looking for. We think this is
Speaker 3: one where.
Speaker 2: The girls was missing.
Speaker 3: So I asked her. I said, the white building we're
Speaker 3: looking for is near the school up the street, and
Speaker 3: Stephanie says yes, So I log onto. I'm actually on
Speaker 3: my cell phone at this time because I've gotten the
Speaker 3: text messism. So I go on to Google Maps and
Speaker 3: I go to Billings, Montana, and to just do a
Speaker 3: search for schools. So I start looking at all the
Speaker 3: schools in the satellite image of Google Maps, and I
Speaker 3: spent probably about thirty minutes and I could not find
Speaker 3: that specific school in the picture that Stephanie sent us.
Speaker 3: So then I went back and looked get the picture again,
Speaker 3: I said, well, this kind of looks like a school,
Speaker 3: but I see a pool, looks like a playground, some
Speaker 3: orange slides. I think this may be a park or
Speaker 3: a community center. So I went back on Google and
Speaker 3: just did a quick Google search Billings, Montana parks with pools,
Speaker 3: and literally the first result came up to me for
Speaker 3: a park in Billings called South Park. So I go
Speaker 3: to my Google Maps, type in South Park and Billings Monttowna,
Speaker 3: and sure enough, there's a park. So I zoom in
Speaker 3: at the satellite and sure enough I can see this
Speaker 3: pool with the orange slides in it, and right across
Speaker 3: the street, which looks like it's on sixth Avenue South
Speaker 3: and South thirtieth Street. It looks like where the picture
Speaker 3: was taken that Stephanie sent to us. She is telling
Speaker 3: me that house is somewhere around this area. So now
Speaker 3: I'm frantically on Google Maps looking for this white house.
Speaker 3: And it's not a really good image. It's not the
Speaker 3: full house. What you see is a white, kind of
Speaker 3: dilapidated house. You see a small concrete pad in the
Speaker 3: front and a small sidewalk leading to the city sidewalk
Speaker 3: and some grass. The other images show some vehicles which
Speaker 3: look like they're parked either behind or to the left
Speaker 3: of this building. So when I'm in Google Maps and
Speaker 3: I'm in the satellite view looking down, I start looking
Speaker 3: for roofs that are that same clay Adobe color. So
Speaker 3: I reach out back to the staff at KT Studios
Speaker 3: and I said, is this house here? And Stephanie says, yeah,
Speaker 3: I believe so. And I said, well, this actually is
Speaker 3: in a school what you sent us, it's actually a park,
Speaker 3: and she goes, really, she goes, maybe I'm confusing some things,
Speaker 3: and then Jeff chimes in. He goes, well, let me
Speaker 3: reach out to the private investigator we have up in
Speaker 3: that area who's been helping us. Maybe he can give
Speaker 3: you some more information. At this point, I can't get
Speaker 3: this white building out of my mind. I am frustrated
Speaker 3: that I can't find it, because that's what I do.
Speaker 3: I find locations. I found the park, South Park, found
Speaker 3: the pool with the orange slides. Why can't I find
Speaker 3: this house. I won't be able to stop thinking about
Speaker 3: this house. I won't be able to sleep until I
Speaker 3: find the location of this white building. And the unfortunate
Speaker 3: thing is I promised my wife I would take her
Speaker 3: out to dinner tonight, so I desperately wanted to talk
Speaker 3: to the private investigator so I could find out if
Speaker 3: he knew the location of this white building and what
Speaker 3: importance it was. Let's stop here for a break. We'll
Speaker 3: be back in a moment.
Speaker 2: So before we connect to private investigator, Mike talk follow
Speaker 2: up on the White House of Montana. Can we quickly
Speaker 2: talk about Jared's case. Yeah, we know that Jared and
Speaker 2: his ex wife Shana had a really contentious relationship even
Speaker 2: after their divorce. They were constantly battling over money, custodied
Speaker 2: their twins, and lots of other things.
Speaker 3: We also know, according to Kirsten, that Jared's ex wife,
Speaker 3: Shana and her family are really concerned about their public image.
Speaker 2: And despite the fact that Shana said that she was
Speaker 2: staying in Florida after Jared's murder, Kirsten says, Shana and
Speaker 2: the twins are moving, though she doesn't know where. This
Speaker 2: is really helpful information about what's happening now. But I
Speaker 2: really think we need to map out Jared's last hours.
Speaker 1: So Deanna and I are looking at a map. She
Speaker 1: went in and took some of the locations that are
Speaker 1: important to the Jared case, his house, the ex wife's house,
Speaker 1: the location of the crime and things like that. But
Speaker 1: what she also did is she actually outlined on the map,
Speaker 1: like the route he would have taken from the house
Speaker 1: to where the incident happened, and other things. This is
Speaker 1: really great for us to understand. It kind of gives
Speaker 1: a timing issue. Okay, you have ex wife's house at
Speaker 1: this time, it would have taken an X amount of
Speaker 1: minutes to get to this location or this happened.
Speaker 2: So what I did was I started at the ex
Speaker 2: wife's house where he dropped off the children, and I
Speaker 2: just I just like zoomed out right of the map
Speaker 2: and said which way would he have traveled? Right? I
Speaker 2: just drew it out. There's only really like one way
Speaker 2: to go to end up at Sanctuary Boulevard. Right, It's interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's interesting when you look at the neighborhood of Sanctuary Boulevard,
Speaker 2: there's only one way out. So I thought that was interesting.
Speaker 2: But anyway, so I marked the location of the crime scene.
Speaker 2: I watched a bunch of videos like news clippings, and
Speaker 2: I saw.
Speaker 1: This is the one that says next to driver's side door, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And if you look you can see the sign,
Speaker 2: the street.
Speaker 1: The yield of the pole, it's leaning kind of die.
Speaker 2: It's kind of leaning right. And so I just wanted
Speaker 2: to verify what Kirsten told us. I mean, I obviously
Speaker 2: I believe her, but I just want to verify right
Speaker 2: on my own. So I watched all the news articles
Speaker 2: and they showed this, and this is actually Jared's car
Speaker 2: from that night, and it's parked right next to that sign,
Speaker 2: like it's right there, right, And you can see if
Speaker 2: you look at the front tire, the passenger side tire,
Speaker 2: it's kind of diagonal with that sign. So it's right
Speaker 2: in front of that sign, right. It's not past it,
Speaker 2: it's not it's before the sign. So that's where I
Speaker 2: marked the shooting pin on the map. And so it's
Speaker 2: two point twenty six miles.
Speaker 1: So in the neighborhood, you would drive twenty five miles
Speaker 1: an hour break, yeah, and to go that it would
Speaker 1: take you somewhere between five and ten minutes to get
Speaker 1: from the house to the location.
Speaker 2: I would, you know, wh When I mapped it out
Speaker 2: in the Google Maps, it s hit something like twelve
Speaker 2: minutes because it's all neighborhood, which is interesting to me
Speaker 2: because there's a massive way to get there from like
Speaker 2: a main road that he totally avoids. But according to Kirsten,
Speaker 2: his wife, this is the route he took all the
Speaker 2: time and it is an odd route. So in a
Speaker 2: news article from News for Jacks, a police officer said,
Speaker 2: I'm asking if you were along this roadway of South
Speaker 2: Beach Parkway that leads to the on ramp to JTB,
Speaker 2: which is the J. Turner Butler Boulevard, or from Jackson
Speaker 2: Drive coming down Sanctuary Boulevard turning onto JTB, please give
Speaker 2: us a call. It does not matter if you saw
Speaker 2: something or you didn't see anything. We're asking if you
Speaker 2: were in the area to call us. And they're looking
Speaker 2: for anybody in the area between seven fifteen in eight pm.
Speaker 2: And the reason that's important is Jared presumably dropped the
Speaker 2: kids off at the ex wife's house at seven around
Speaker 2: seven thirty, all right, So if they're looking for somebody
Speaker 2: from seven point fifteen, they're theorizing that somebody was getting
Speaker 2: set up around that time, right like they're parking their truck,
Speaker 2: they're you know, putting the tire out whatever, or getting
Speaker 2: ready to they're getting in position, and they want to know,
Speaker 2: did you see anything? So I thought that was interesting.
Speaker 2: So on the map, that is the route in like
Speaker 2: the teal blue, and I thought, and this is important
Speaker 2: because this is either the escape route or it's the
Speaker 2: way they came in. And I feel like if we
Speaker 2: know where the surveillance cameras were that cap sure the
Speaker 2: three videos that were released, then we'll be able to
Speaker 2: figure that out. I think that would be a good
Speaker 2: thing that the surveillance videos were captured on Setter Boulevard.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, okay, I need I need to I'm
Speaker 2: start freaking out. Okay, So if he or she is
Speaker 2: leaving the crime scene and they take oh you can't.
Speaker 2: That's only one way.
Speaker 4: Talking about is that there's a video that the police
Speaker 4: have of a four death one safety trout that happens
Speaker 4: to be missing a tire.
Speaker 1: That matches the tire that was left at the team
Speaker 1: in this video. The front passenger tire is obviously a
Speaker 1: spare tire. It doesn't match the other three. So in
Speaker 1: the twelve oh two video, that front passenger tire is
Speaker 1: a spare tire.
Speaker 2: You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1: That could be the tire that was left in.
Speaker 2: The scene, right right. I'm like freaking out too much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they could depressed.
Speaker 2: So remember last week when we were talking about this
Speaker 2: and I was like, how do we know that there
Speaker 2: it was the it was a tire left in the
Speaker 2: way and not just the truck, right, Well now we know.
Speaker 2: Now we know because if it was a truck that
Speaker 2: was like in distress with its hood up or something,
Speaker 2: that person in the truck would not be able to
Speaker 2: get back up to Shutter Avenue heading west by leaving
Speaker 2: Sanctuary Boulevard the way it was facing. It would have
Speaker 2: to make a U turn, which was the vehicle.
Speaker 1: If the vehicles parked there with the tire was acting
Speaker 1: like they're changing the flat tire, their direction would have
Speaker 1: been southbound, which would have taken them to Sanctuary Boulevard,
Speaker 1: where your only option is to make a right and
Speaker 1: get on the turner unless, like you said, you do
Speaker 1: an illegal U turn back up.
Speaker 2: And that's totally possible. Right. So I was thinking about
Speaker 2: where the heck was this truck while the person was
Speaker 2: you know, putting the tire while they were hiding, And
Speaker 2: there's only a couple places. Now, if you actually go
Speaker 2: to a terrain map like where you can see the
Speaker 2: trees and all that good stuff. If you look at
Speaker 2: the satellite view, there's cars parked in the grass there
Speaker 2: and on the in the cul de sac right, So
Speaker 2: the person could have parked their truck there, walked across
Speaker 2: that lane, hid in the bushes. Like literally, Jared's coming,
Speaker 2: He's gonna be there in a minute. He's going to
Speaker 2: be there in ten seconds. There's no other cars behind him.
Speaker 2: He puts a tire out, hides again right boom boom boom,
Speaker 2: runs back, leaves a tire, runs back to his truck,
Speaker 2: heads north on that little road and makes a right
Speaker 2: on Jacksonville Drive and heads right back home. Additionally, there's
Speaker 2: another place that he could have parked. He or she
Speaker 2: could have parked, and that is to the right of
Speaker 2: the crime scene. There's another neighborhood with the cul de sac.
Speaker 2: It's important for the listeners to know that all these
Speaker 2: roads are no parking because they're like tiny they're basically
Speaker 2: one way roads. If a car is coming at you,
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to like pull over to get out
Speaker 2: of the way. You're not going to be able to
Speaker 2: park a car on any of these roads. And if
Speaker 2: you look on the satellite view, the neighborhood to the
Speaker 2: right of the crime scene. This person would have to
Speaker 2: go through all those trees. Right. Basically, well, the house
Speaker 2: that's at the end of the cul de sac, there's
Speaker 2: nothing else there that's all open. There's no fence. I looked,
Speaker 2: there's no fence. There's nothing. So they could have gone
Speaker 2: up the road to the wooded area and gone in
Speaker 2: there and done it that way, right, But what's more plausible?
Speaker 2: I tend to agree with you, But I also feel
Speaker 2: like it's more noticeable on America Way.
Speaker 1: So you could park on America Avenue. There are some
Speaker 1: trees where you could have parked, or your car, that truck,
Speaker 1: if it was parked there, couldn't have been seen. While
Speaker 1: you're driving out Sanctuary, you walk around the trees, you're
Speaker 1: at the location.
Speaker 2: Those are my two locations that I thought were interesting. Obviously,
Speaker 2: I know nothing. I don't know what is correct and
Speaker 2: it is. That doesn't help it all, not really, because
Speaker 2: I'm sure the police have queried all these homeowners for
Speaker 2: their surveillance cameras, their ring doorbells, their nests. Right, It's
Speaker 2: just surprising to me that in such a nice neighborhood
Speaker 2: there isn't more surveillance. You know, but you mentioned something
Speaker 2: interesting to me last week about laws in different states.
Speaker 1: My friend had a security company system, and they have cameras,
Speaker 1: and the security company system tells you you can't point
Speaker 1: in your cameras outside your property lines. I guess it's
Speaker 1: their rule. It all came back from me, and so
Speaker 1: he was switching out the security company cameras and putting
Speaker 1: in cameras. Later that night, it all came back and
Speaker 1: be like, oh, now I remember. So it's a three
Speaker 1: letter security company, A and E. T. If you buy
Speaker 1: their security camera system and it's installed on your house,
Speaker 1: they don't want there. They have access to your cameras,
Speaker 1: so they don't want to be able to look into
Speaker 1: other people's houses.
Speaker 2: Gotcha. I just don't understand how there's no surveillance of
Speaker 2: the street at all.
Speaker 1: So what do you think happened to the well?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, doesn't have license plates. It
Speaker 2: just doesn't make sense to me that in the whole city,
Speaker 2: the whole way back to the route that they would
Speaker 2: have had to go to get from the crime scene,
Speaker 2: that there's no other surveillance cameras. It makes no sense
Speaker 2: to me. So I have to assume that they strategically
Speaker 2: released specific ones, and I want to like, I want
Speaker 2: to give them credit and say it's to measure a
Speaker 2: reaction from the suspects. But at the same time, I
Speaker 2: think you might be right John that it's more of
Speaker 2: a convenience thing because it was a police department. So
Speaker 2: assuming they have other videos, none of them got a
Speaker 2: license plate.
Speaker 1: So earlier this year, Deanna and I were invited to
Speaker 1: convention on Crime and she was working on a cold
Speaker 1: case that where it was like a shoe being outside
Speaker 1: a club and he's gone down every road and was
Speaker 1: coming to nowhere. She's talking to one of her coworkers
Speaker 1: and they said, hey, have you done a geofence? And
Speaker 1: she's like, well, geofence? What's that? He goes, Oh, go
Speaker 1: to Google and ask them to provide you all the
Speaker 1: information about people that were in that area. You draw
Speaker 1: a radius of sense and what people don't know that
Speaker 1: when you're in your car and you haven't changed the
Speaker 1: settings on your phone, it can track you as you're driving.
Speaker 1: So when you're looking at Google Maps and it said, oh,
Speaker 1: there's traffic in front of you, because the people in
Speaker 1: the phones in that car are sharing their location and
Speaker 1: showing how fast they're moving, and that information is collected
Speaker 1: through Google Maps. There's also your unique identifier number. You
Speaker 1: talk about cat food and the next thing you know,
Speaker 1: you're getting all these ads for cat food. Each of
Speaker 1: your phone, each person is giving a unique identifier number.
Speaker 1: There's actually a company that's made of two retired police
Speaker 1: officers that that's what they do. They collect this unique
Speaker 1: identify advertising numbers and they do something called a life
Speaker 1: pattern analysis and they can tell looking at all the
Speaker 1: ads and stuff you get that this person might live
Speaker 1: in this area. So the detective in Atlanta did this
Speaker 1: geo fense and it came up with like only two
Speaker 1: or three cell phones, and one of the cell phones
Speaker 1: led to the person who he believes committed the crime.
Speaker 1: So I'm wondering. I'm wondering if the police here in
Speaker 1: Florida have done something similar. Hopefully the person was you know,
Speaker 1: not smart enough and had a cell phone on them
Speaker 1: and they geo offensive. Maybe they have, we don't know,
Speaker 1: but that would be a great way to find out
Speaker 1: who the person was if they had a cell phone
Speaker 1: turned on and was with them at Alto and they
Speaker 1: didn't know how to and they didn't know how to
Speaker 1: change the settings on the boone.
Speaker 2: How would the killer know Jared was coming and that
Speaker 2: there were no other cars surround like behind him.
Speaker 1: Somebody had to be offering them, right.
Speaker 2: So she is at the house right, so she's not
Speaker 2: very likely very she's not following Jared. Or did they
Speaker 2: use an air tracker when.
Speaker 1: He went they put something on his car or.
Speaker 2: A GPS tracker of any kind? Right when he went
Speaker 2: to ice cream with the kids and he was, you know,
Speaker 2: inside eating ice cream, did somebody come up to his car?
Speaker 2: That is a great question because if somebody did mess
Speaker 2: with this car but like a GPS trucker on it,
Speaker 2: they would have had to drive all the way to
Speaker 2: Saint Augustine right in that truck, presumably put the tracker on,
Speaker 2: and then go get in position, which could easily be done.
Speaker 1: So it sounds like we need to find we need
Speaker 1: to find the ice cream location place. So some people
Speaker 1: on Reddit created a subreddit talking about the Jared case,
Speaker 1: and you've been sharing a lot of information on there.
Speaker 1: It's full of great stuff and made it easy for us.
Speaker 1: Thank you all.
Speaker 2: From that sub Ready confirmation bias is a thing and
Speaker 2: John and I working together will naturally you'll feed off
Speaker 2: each other, and you want to make sure that you're
Speaker 2: not agreeing with the evidence that you are. You don't
Speaker 2: want to get wrapped up in things and take things
Speaker 2: at face value, and you can easily do that when
Speaker 2: you're doing this kind of work. So you want people
Speaker 2: to go, no, this is wrong and this is why.
Speaker 2: And you can't take that kind of stuff personally either.
Speaker 2: You just kind of have to go, oh, yeah, you
Speaker 2: know what, that's you're right, and you learn from that.
Speaker 2: You stuff it in your brain and you remember that
Speaker 2: the next time you do something. Confirmation bias is a
Speaker 2: hell of a drug.
Speaker 1: So if everybody doesn't know, Reddit is a very popular
Speaker 1: website that people can go on to and find out
Speaker 1: like going on and make comments, and on Reddit you
Speaker 1: can make your own subreddit about a topic you like.
Speaker 1: After the incident happened in February of this year, somebody
Speaker 1: made a Jared subreddit and like there was like seven
Speaker 1: months ago and their first post was reddit sluice, Let's
Speaker 1: solve it. And I thought, oh no right after reading it.
Speaker 1: And so when I went on the subreddit or Jared
Speaker 1: and I kind of went through every single post this week,
Speaker 1: you know, I started getting that feeling we have again.
Speaker 1: So I'm able to do it. Yanna is able to
Speaker 1: do it. That means anybody's able to do it, including
Speaker 1: the person they suspect who may have committed this crime,
Speaker 1: which on Reddit, the subreddit, it's pretty clear they have
Speaker 1: an opinion who is responsible for the Jared's death. And
Speaker 1: so what happened is is these people all well meaning, good,
Speaker 1: good intentions, Hey, let's solve this, you know, this heinous
Speaker 1: murder of a loving father who got killed. And they're
Speaker 1: posting things like, oh, here's so and so's social media
Speaker 1: profile and then a short time writer, boom it's down.
Speaker 1: Like they literally have a thread about oh here's so
Speaker 1: and So's Instagram account and then boom it's all gone.
Speaker 1: Or here's so and so's family member Facebook page and
Speaker 1: now it's all locked up. So it's all like good intentions,
Speaker 1: they mean well and they're trying to do it, but
Speaker 1: in the end they ended up having like scrubbing the
Speaker 1: Internet of things that I think you and I would
Speaker 1: have found useful.
Speaker 2: Right, that was a perfect example. So Mario the ex
Speaker 2: wife's husband, current husband, he had an Instagram account and
Speaker 2: it was full of information that we could have gone
Speaker 2: through right. They were posting about on Reddit and they
Speaker 2: would link to the post and then people would go
Speaker 2: make comments on you know that Instagram post and the
Speaker 2: ex husband or the current husband Mario was like f
Speaker 2: this and just deleted his entire Instagram. So now all
Speaker 2: of that is gone.
Speaker 1: He had an Instagram, he had a YouTube.
Speaker 2: Program, a Reddit account, he had.
Speaker 1: A Ready account, which they identified. So the moral of
Speaker 1: the story is is if you're trying to track somebody
Speaker 1: down and you think they're the person responsible, you might
Speaker 1: not want to publicly post what you're looking at because
Speaker 1: they're going to know it too, which is the same
Speaker 1: thing that happened to us with the cat killing videos.
Speaker 1: The person was responsible was lurking in amongst the people
Speaker 1: and seeing everything we were commenting about until we decided
Speaker 1: Deanna nine. A few people say hey, let's go in
Speaker 1: private and not share these things publicly. So unfortunately, there
Speaker 1: was a treasure trol of information on the people who
Speaker 1: they suspect that's now no longer available to us. There
Speaker 1: are some snippets of things, some screenshots and things like that,
Speaker 1: like I saw the video of him shooting the gun
Speaker 1: at the firing or and all that, but you know,
Speaker 1: the things you and I look for, we can no
Speaker 1: longer look for it again. So I was a little
Speaker 1: I was like, oh God, I wish that was there
Speaker 1: so we could look at it. And so it kind
Speaker 1: of got to me this weekend and I wanted to
Speaker 1: touch base on it a little bit more.
Speaker 2: And the good. The good when you have a public
Speaker 2: search like this or a public discussion like this, is
Speaker 2: that you can get a lot of different opinions about
Speaker 2: one piece of like what you would consider evidence, right,
Speaker 2: and you can get a lot of explanations from that evidence,
Speaker 2: or you can also get like confirmation that it's actually
Speaker 2: a piece of possible evidence. But then you also basically
Speaker 2: are warning the suspect, right, hey, this is what we found.
Speaker 2: And then you know, well meaning people again, they'll go
Speaker 2: to those profiles and start commenting hate, right, like you're
Speaker 2: going to die in hell for what you did. How
Speaker 2: Like I kind of said in the documentary, it's just noise, right,
Speaker 2: and it's emotional, right. People are upset this wonderful father
Speaker 2: of fors is gone, and so the person on the
Speaker 2: other end of that, it's just like I'm dealing with
Speaker 2: this for a freaking Instagram account and just deletes it,
Speaker 2: and now the police, who's I mean, it's more important
Speaker 2: that the police have access to this stuff, not necessarily us,
Speaker 2: but now the police doesn't even have access to that, right,
Speaker 2: the hive mind, Right, And there's a reason it's called
Speaker 2: the hive mind too. That's another thing. If you get
Speaker 2: fifty people together and can of those people appear to
Speaker 2: be really smart and aggressive and they're posting and they're
Speaker 2: finding a lot of information, the other forty people are
Speaker 2: going to naturally agree with them.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: You're very rarely going to get people that will speak
Speaker 2: up like you and I did with the with Luca.
Speaker 2: You're very rarely going to get people that are going
Speaker 2: to speak up and go, hey, wait a minute, this
Speaker 2: doesn't the sound right. Right, It's hard to do that.
Speaker 2: It's it's difficult to do that, and you go against
Speaker 2: the hive mind. Right. So that's also something to keep
Speaker 2: in mind when you're doing these kind of things. And
Speaker 2: I don't talk about these kinds of things on like
Speaker 2: my TikTok or my Facebook or my Instagram because huzz
Speaker 2: of that. Right, We've done things privately forever. In fact,
Speaker 2: this podcast is the only time we've ever done something publicly.
Speaker 2: Let's stop here for another quick break.
Speaker 1: The last time you and I spoke, we mainly focused
Speaker 1: on the security cam footage, but we didn't.
Speaker 2: What we didn't nail down was when those pictures or
Speaker 2: videos were taken, and that's what we were going to
Speaker 2: do tonight.
Speaker 1: I was kind of searching. I know, there's three security
Speaker 1: camera videos. We found, the two from the police station
Speaker 1: and then the one from the business right down the
Speaker 1: street from police right. But while I was searching, there
Speaker 1: seems to be a screenshot of the same vehicle. So
Speaker 1: the ones the videos we see is obviously at night right,
Speaker 1: car lights are on everything, but in one of these
Speaker 1: it's like a screenshot. There's another video, which I don't
Speaker 1: know if we have seen yet, but it's obviously in
Speaker 1: the evening. The sun's out, it's like sunset flight time.
Speaker 1: And so I was like, well, I wonder what time
Speaker 1: the sun set on February sixteenth and Jacksonville, Florida. So
Speaker 1: I just went online to Sunday suntoday dot Org, plugged
Speaker 1: in the date and it said, you know, sunset at
Speaker 1: sixty sixteen PM on February sixteenth. And then when I
Speaker 1: was looking at that picture, screenshot linked to an article
Speaker 1: or the police said that we're looking for a timeframe,
Speaker 1: and I think you mentioned this Scianna between five thirty,
Speaker 1: five thirty and eight thirty, right, so that I think. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So the police said they're looking for if you saw
Speaker 1: this vehicle between five thirty and eight thirty, So that
Speaker 1: tells us that that video where we haven't seen. But
Speaker 1: it's obviously from the screenshot during the day that that
Speaker 1: video was recorded before the incident, because the incident happens
Speaker 1: around seventy thirty at night, right, So there's no way
Speaker 1: that whatever that screenshot of that truck is, it happened
Speaker 1: during the sun was still. That's what I know. So
Speaker 1: it's kind of eerie.
Speaker 2: More on that next time.
Speaker 3: True Crimes is executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Gianna Thompson,
Speaker 3: Courtney Armstrong, Jeff Shane, Andrew Arnout, and me John Green.
Speaker 3: Additional producing by Connor Powell and Gabe Castile. Editing by
Speaker 3: Jeff ti Music by Vanikor Music.
Speaker 2: True Crimes is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios.
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, please visit the
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
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