Speaker 1: Hey there everybody. It is Wednesday, January seventh, and families
Speaker 1: have been waiting for years for justice, for accountability after
Speaker 1: that uvolda school massacre. But on day one of testimony
Speaker 1: and the Uvaldi trial already a shocker and talk of
Speaker 1: a mistrial, and with that, welcome to this episode of
Speaker 1: Amy and TJ. Robes. We were getting set for weeks
Speaker 1: of testimony, day one of testimony. I can't imagine what
Speaker 1: these families are going through after all this. There is
Speaker 1: real talk of a mistrial, yes there is. It's not
Speaker 1: just speculation, this is for real.
Speaker 2: The headlines are took an unexpected turn. And that is
Speaker 2: an understatement, because yes, testimony was underway.
Speaker 3: It was gutting.
Speaker 2: It was frankly shocking to rehear and to relive some
Speaker 2: of those moments, and then to have a teacher who
Speaker 2: is up on the stand say something that upset the
Speaker 2: defense so much that arguments ensued, and then they now
Speaker 2: had to remove the jury that they won't even come
Speaker 2: back into the courtroom until Thursday while the defense and
Speaker 2: the prosecution try to hammer it out with the judge.
Speaker 3: But yes, the defense has said they may ask for
Speaker 3: a MISTRYNG.
Speaker 1: Clear for what we're saying here, folks. On day one
Speaker 1: of testimony in the trial, Day two of testimony was
Speaker 1: canceled because there's a problem, and this is a really
Speaker 1: big problem, a Brady violation. You might have even heard
Speaker 1: of that. You hear it every now and again, even
Speaker 1: if you can't recall what it is. But it's very
Speaker 1: simple stuff. Hell, even in the movie My Cousin Vinnie,
Speaker 1: they hit on this. The prosecution cannot withhold evidence that
Speaker 1: could possibly help the defense, and it appears at this
Speaker 1: point at least the defense is going to argue, you
Speaker 1: all just ambushed us on day one of testimony, and
Speaker 1: Rodes is hard to argue with the point they're making
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 2: Yes, so this was a former third grade teacher. She
Speaker 2: was the third grade teacher at rob Elementary School on
Speaker 2: the day of the Uvaldi shooting. She testified that she
Speaker 2: saw the gunman on the same side of the building,
Speaker 2: in the exact same area where the officer who was
Speaker 2: on trial, Adrian Gonzalez, was. The defense said, that is
Speaker 2: a completely different statement than what you gave during a
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two investigation, something that she specifically said to
Speaker 2: a Texas ranger. They say what she testified to in
Speaker 2: court is not the same and a very big difference.
Speaker 3: And of it obviously would be to the detriment of
Speaker 3: their client. If what she's saying is true.
Speaker 1: This is a huge no. No, this is a huge
Speaker 1: problem because the defense has been preparing for months years
Speaker 1: based on her official statements, which are official evidence in
Speaker 1: the case. They've been preparing based on that. They show
Speaker 1: up on day one of testimony in the trial and
Speaker 1: they go, oops, actually it's not that, it's something else.
Speaker 1: This is a very serious violation. The judge seemed a
Speaker 1: little annoyed and put off by this. But folks, what
Speaker 1: we're saying is today they are dedicating the day in
Speaker 1: the court today to only trying to work this out road.
Speaker 1: The problem here, right, they get declare mistrial, Sure, judge
Speaker 1: hates to do that after all this, But Rose, what
Speaker 1: if you go through what if he gets found guilty.
Speaker 1: What's the first thing they're going to do appeal based
Speaker 1: on this Brady violation?
Speaker 3: Potential violations?
Speaker 1: What do you do here? Rose? Think about those famili
Speaker 1: and look, we should remind folks, full disclosure, not full disclosure.
Speaker 1: Everybody knows you were there the day after that shooting,
Speaker 1: took place. You and I were on the air together,
Speaker 1: me and New York. You there. This is something from
Speaker 1: day one. We've kept an eye on. This is something
Speaker 1: from day I can't imagine what the family are going through.
Speaker 2: Yes, because you know it's to have been there and
Speaker 2: to have reported on it. I get emotional reading this
Speaker 2: that I am so far removed being a parent of
Speaker 2: one of these kids, and the allegations here are so
Speaker 2: serious because to think, because we learned this and I look,
Speaker 2: I don't this exact detail, but this certainly came out
Speaker 2: in the opening statement from the prosecution yesterday when testimony began,
Speaker 2: he said.
Speaker 3: That officer Adrian Gonzalez was there on the scene before
Speaker 3: the gunman entered the building.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you get over that one passed
Speaker 1: that one.
Speaker 3: I have chills from head to toe as a parent.
Speaker 2: And look, we talked about at the time, we reported
Speaker 2: when we were there on the scene that parents were
Speaker 2: begging officers, trying to get into the building themselves, wanting
Speaker 2: to run into harm's way to try and save their
Speaker 2: children when the police would not.
Speaker 1: This is the most devastating detail I've heard in this
Speaker 1: entire story is that before he went in and killed
Speaker 1: nineteen babies. There was an officer there before he went
Speaker 1: into the buildings that you can't live with that, that's Abe.
Speaker 2: It's it's it makes you feel gutted because when you
Speaker 2: know that something could have been prevented, and the person
Speaker 2: who was charged with that duty, who had a firearm,
Speaker 2: who was trained on what to do in these types
Speaker 2: of situations, and I understand in the moment it's very different.
Speaker 2: It's scary, But the question is the responsibility. The whole
Speaker 2: purpose of his position and his job was to protect
Speaker 2: and to serve and to run into harm's way, and
Speaker 2: when he knew there was an active gunman, the prosecution
Speaker 2: kept saying, effectively, Adrian stayed. Adrian radioed. Adrian basically gave
Speaker 2: a blow by blow of what was happening on his radio.
Speaker 2: But he did nothing. He took zero action.
Speaker 1: That's tough for Robes. Again, criminally, I don't know what
Speaker 1: he faces, right, I don't know if he committed a crime,
Speaker 1: what the law says about it. But Roges, that is
Speaker 1: you said, scared, you said, and you know, in all
Speaker 1: these cases, we always try to give a little grace
Speaker 1: to the person on that side. So trying to find
Speaker 1: some way to give grace to Adrian Gonzalez. And you
Speaker 1: said he was scared. Possibly, that's my job, because I'm
Speaker 1: a citizen. I can be scared and stand out there
Speaker 1: and coward and be a coward. I can do that
Speaker 1: as a citizen. You signed up to protect these people.
Speaker 1: Signed it says to protect and serve on the side
Speaker 1: of those cars. And a part of that is, yes,
Speaker 1: possibly taking a bullet for a seven year old, that's
Speaker 1: your job. And to see some of them explain and
Speaker 1: some of the officer this is not us. These are
Speaker 1: other officers who say no. The training is to go in.
Speaker 1: You engage, even if you don't shoot and kill the shooter.
Speaker 1: You get us a attention, get him to shoot at
Speaker 1: you instead of elementary school kids.
Speaker 3: The very least you distract him.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: A Texas ranger actually, to your exact point, testified yesterday
Speaker 2: for the prosecution, and the prosecutor prosecutor asked him, are
Speaker 2: there limitations about going into a shots fired active shooter situation?
Speaker 2: Here is the exact quote from that Texas ranger. There
Speaker 2: is not a limitation. I wouldn't say so. The rule
Speaker 2: is to engage and to stop the killing.
Speaker 3: Period.
Speaker 1: I don't know what else to I don't know or
Speaker 1: if this is and again Adrian Gonzalez, we don't know him,
Speaker 1: not suggesting he's might be the best guy, a good
Speaker 1: guy who made a really bad call based on whatever
Speaker 1: he was going through, his emotions, his energy, his fear,
Speaker 1: whatever was happening that caused him to freeze.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say it sounds like he was paralyzed
Speaker 3: with fear.
Speaker 1: Fear in a moment that people called for his help.
Speaker 1: That is a devastating ropes to think it is a
Speaker 1: possibility that those nineteen didn't have to die. He beat
Speaker 1: the shooter to the school.
Speaker 3: Yes, they described where he was.
Speaker 2: He was actually on duty at the high school, which
Speaker 2: was nearby, and he heard over the radio a car crash, right,
Speaker 2: so a massive car crash. That's how this all began.
Speaker 2: The shooter crashed his white vehicle, and the funeral director
Speaker 2: of the funeral home, which was directly across the street
Speaker 2: from the rob Elementary School, immediately starts calling nine one one, begging, begging,
Speaker 2: please I can hear the shots. The officer arrived. They
Speaker 2: actually have the time stance, I stamps. I believe the
Speaker 2: crash happened around eleven thirty in the morning. Officer Gonzalez
Speaker 2: was there by eleven forty, so he was there within
Speaker 2: like minutes and before the shooter even had the.
Speaker 3: Opportunity to go into the school itself.
Speaker 2: And a teacher, well, the prosecutor testified that there was
Speaker 2: a teacher who got up right up close to Officer
Speaker 2: Gonzalez's face and said, basically, please, he's over there, Please
Speaker 2: go get him, and was pointing Officer Gonzalez into the
Speaker 2: direction because she had just faced the shooter and knew
Speaker 2: what he was doing and said, please go get him.
Speaker 2: And Adrian Gonzalez, according to the prosecutor, prosecutor did nothing
Speaker 2: and it wasn't just a split second decision to do
Speaker 2: nothing seven seven minutes. Imagine that an hour and seven
Speaker 2: minutes of terror of shots being fired, and no one
Speaker 2: goes inside, no one does anything.
Speaker 1: And Gonzalez is we should mention he's the first of two.
Speaker 1: The other is the former school police chief. Actually that's
Speaker 1: going to be facing trial as well. These details that
Speaker 1: have been coming out of this case now we're going
Speaker 1: to get more, but there is a real possibility people
Speaker 1: that this trial won't continue this week. What is the
Speaker 1: judge going. He doesn't want to declare mistrial robes, but
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe they were. There's some deal they
Speaker 1: can work out, but they are going to have to
Speaker 1: discuss it. And what was the case is what the
Speaker 1: judge is allowing the defense to interview the prosecutors about.
Speaker 2: What they did, ye what they knew and when they
Speaker 2: knew it in this testimony or this very important piece
Speaker 2: of evidence and from the testimony of this teacher, when
Speaker 2: did it change? When did they know about what she
Speaker 2: was going to testify to? And we should point out
Speaker 2: on Monday, when they were seating a jury, they actually
Speaker 2: had to dismiss more than one hundred jurors who admitted
Speaker 2: and said I cannot be impartial.
Speaker 1: Yea.
Speaker 2: They said they had already formed opinions. Some of them
Speaker 2: were teachers, some of them were husbands of teachers, people
Speaker 2: who said, I already know that if my wife or
Speaker 2: my child were in that building, I would blame the
Speaker 2: officers for not going in period.
Speaker 3: End of story.
Speaker 1: I'd admit I was surprised I got twelve.
Speaker 2: So they actually even said it was pretty remarkable they
Speaker 2: were able to see twelve jurors and four alternates.
Speaker 3: Quickly within one day.
Speaker 2: But to have all those folks just walk out and say, nope,
Speaker 2: I can't be impartial.
Speaker 3: I don't know that I've ever seen that before.
Speaker 1: Well, we had so many yes, the jury the way
Speaker 1: deer right, this whole process that they go through, but
Speaker 1: robes every once in a while, don't you Usually hear
Speaker 1: jurors trying to make sure they I don't want to
Speaker 1: say fool, but you want to sound like you're important,
Speaker 1: like I can be impartial here and whatnot? They just
Speaker 1: raising their hands. Nope, he's good. I know what I
Speaker 1: would do, So you want me here. This is what's
Speaker 1: going to happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to tell say that he's guilty.
Speaker 1: I don't really I appreciate that.
Speaker 3: I do too.
Speaker 2: I'm sure the defense actually appreciated it as well, because
Speaker 2: you don't want somebody. And then you think about if
Speaker 2: all those people walked out, the people who did, because
Speaker 2: I think they.
Speaker 3: Had about four hundred plus jurors to go through.
Speaker 2: But if a quarter of them immediately just raise their
Speaker 2: hand and say I'm not going to be impartial.
Speaker 1: It's just easy to eliminate folks.
Speaker 2: Yes, imagine the people who might say, cool, I'm not
Speaker 2: going to say it out loud, but I know exactly
Speaker 2: what I'm going to do.
Speaker 1: You may that's probably some of that on the oh Man,
Speaker 1: you don't want to say that about the jurors, but
Speaker 1: you guess to think that's true. This is happening in
Speaker 1: Corpus Christie, it's happening down there in Texas. It's happening
Speaker 1: in an area where that how the whole country is
Speaker 1: familiar with this story, but ropes, How can anybody there
Speaker 1: not be impacted? Maybe not know somebody who knows, somebody
Speaker 1: whose kids play on a team with somebody, that kind
Speaker 1: of a thing. It's impossible.
Speaker 3: And even for someone like us, who are far removed.
Speaker 2: We covered it, but I don't know anyone personally who
Speaker 2: was involved. And yet I feel very impassioned by it,
Speaker 2: as do I would argue most human beings, especially those
Speaker 2: who have children. It's just an impossible thing to ignore
Speaker 2: that feeling of why wouldn't you do your job? And
Speaker 2: if you had done your job, lives would have been saved, period,
Speaker 2: Maybe not all of them, but at least some of them.
Speaker 1: That's got to be an argument. So it's hard to
Speaker 1: go back in the ifs and what I just can't
Speaker 1: imagine a scenario where all of these kids would have
Speaker 1: died if he would have acted. I just can't imagine
Speaker 1: a scenario with fire shots in the air, do something
Speaker 1: to yell and screen there's an officer here, just get
Speaker 1: is I just I don't know the training roles, but
Speaker 1: it's hard to imagine that the outcome would have been
Speaker 1: the same had he acted.
Speaker 2: I know, you remember the interview I did with that
Speaker 2: teacher who described how long it took the shooting. He
Speaker 2: would just pick people off. It wasn't like just a
Speaker 2: big mass shooting.
Speaker 1: Yet he ran out.
Speaker 3: This went on and on and on. So by the
Speaker 3: inaction of.
Speaker 2: Those police officers allowed him to continue to kill people.
Speaker 2: And this poor teacher actually was hiding and watched almost
Speaker 2: his entire class get shot and killed, and there was
Speaker 2: nothing he could do about it. He had no weapon,
Speaker 2: he had no way to protect those children.
Speaker 3: And it's just a horrific scene.
Speaker 2: And by the way, Adrian Gonzales is facing the potential
Speaker 2: of life in prison twenty nine counts of child abandonment
Speaker 2: or endangerment. He is facing two years per count, so
Speaker 2: that would amount to what sixty years or so, and
Speaker 2: at his age, that would be basically a life sentence,
Speaker 2: but the judge does have a lot of discretion in
Speaker 2: terms of how much he wants to sentence this officer too.
Speaker 2: But this is a tough case to overcome for the defense.
Speaker 2: When you look at the facts.
Speaker 1: You look at the facts. But folks, would you believe
Speaker 1: there is precedent for a case like this? And would
Speaker 1: you believe the precedent in that case might be one
Speaker 1: that's in favor of Adrian Gonzalez. We'll explain it. Stay here.
Speaker 1: We continue here on Amy and TJ. After a dramatic
Speaker 1: first day of testimony in the Uvalde trial, a dramatic
Speaker 1: first day that ends up getting us to this point,
Speaker 1: which was supposed to be the second day of testimony,
Speaker 1: but it has been suspended because of an issue that's
Speaker 1: come up that the defense has accused the prosecution of
Speaker 1: withholding some information that could be material to this case.
Speaker 1: So today robes are going to spend the day no jury.
Speaker 1: They get first day on the job, they get in
Speaker 1: the day off the second day essentially, so the prosecution,
Speaker 1: the defense, and the judge can try to hammer this out,
Speaker 1: but a mistrial.
Speaker 2: Is on the table, and that is certainly concerning. We
Speaker 2: already heard from one of the family members of one
Speaker 2: of the slain children, and they were very upset about
Speaker 2: the potential of a mistrial, as you might imagine, and
Speaker 2: they spoke to several reporters outside of the courthouse when
Speaker 2: it was adjourned yesterday late yesterday evening, and here was
Speaker 2: their quote. We are already anxious and now we're upset.
Speaker 2: All we want is justice for Jackie. It's been three
Speaker 2: and a half years and here we are, and it
Speaker 2: has been well documented over these past several years, how upset.
Speaker 2: Understandably so, these parents are at the police's in action.
Speaker 2: They have been vocal about it, and many of them
Speaker 2: are in that courtroom and they want justice for their children.
Speaker 1: You remember, I know you tube, but yeah, we were
Speaker 1: trying to piece this together and we heard how many
Speaker 1: kids were killed. And I remember a press conference that
Speaker 1: the might have been the first, but it was an
Speaker 1: early one when they declared what the police action was.
Speaker 1: And then they came back and there was another press
Speaker 1: conference and that's when they were reveal that seventy seven
Speaker 1: that that gap and the whole country collectively were just astonished.
Speaker 1: And then they tried to explain their behavior, tried to
Speaker 1: explain why this was okay, why this had to be done.
Speaker 1: It was a shit show, to be quite honest, absolutely
Speaker 1: about it, because nobody can comprehend. But Robes, here we
Speaker 1: are three years later. I cannot believe that I continue
Speaker 1: to be surprised and shocked by information that comes out
Speaker 1: about that day that makes it worse. It makes it worse.
Speaker 1: Every new detail makes it worse. Oh, it was even
Speaker 1: worse than we thought. There is So I try. I
Speaker 1: try to give this guy some kind of grace.
Speaker 2: Robes, I hear you, and the jury is hearing the
Speaker 2: nine to one one calls that were happening as Adrian
Speaker 2: Gonzalez was on the scene. Oh Jesus, please protect those children. Hurry,
Speaker 2: begging officers to arrive, hurry please. Oh my god, he's
Speaker 2: jumping into the school yard. He's just jumped over the fence.
Speaker 2: These are the nine to one to one calls that
Speaker 2: the jury is hearing, and knowing when they see the
Speaker 2: timestamp that officer Gonzales was there, that is hard to overcome.
Speaker 3: The defense can say that he's not responsible.
Speaker 2: They said there's an animal involved in the situation, a monster,
Speaker 2: and he's no longer here. And because that monster can't
Speaker 2: sit in the chair. My client's sitting in the chair.
Speaker 2: But I don't think that is going to That didn't
Speaker 2: That doesn't move me.
Speaker 1: Hey, how about that question if the shooter had lived,
Speaker 1: If the shooter had lived and they were able to
Speaker 1: bring him to trial, would they have taken the time
Speaker 1: to bring these officers to trial.
Speaker 2: I think so because it's so egregious, It was so
Speaker 2: much a part of the story, how egregiously terrific the
Speaker 2: inaction of these police officers were. It wasn't just that
Speaker 2: they were cowards. And look, that is a question. Is
Speaker 2: being a coward a crime? Okay, that's a fair question
Speaker 2: to ask. But when your cowardice behavior leads directly to massacre,
Speaker 2: a massacre that you could have presented prevented if you
Speaker 2: hadn't been a coward, And if your job is to
Speaker 2: not be a coward, if your job is to be brave,
Speaker 2: I think that it is fair to say that being
Speaker 2: a coward in certain positions is potentially criminal.
Speaker 1: It sounds like a strong and such an offensive word, coward.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know what else to say. Because
Speaker 1: I'm only listening to the law enforcement community. I haven't
Speaker 1: gone through police training. I haven't gone through active shooter training,
Speaker 1: but I am pretty sure every officer in this country
Speaker 1: pretty much has.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: Oh, and they do them regularly, right, They do refresher
Speaker 1: courses on this stuff. They focused on this. We haven't
Speaker 1: focused on it since ninety nine and Columbine. So if
Speaker 1: you're telling me that his action that day is in
Speaker 1: line with training, then all training in this country needs
Speaker 1: to change. If you're telling me, if you're going to
Speaker 1: make some argument that he was justified in his behavior
Speaker 1: because of fear or he did and he didn't have
Speaker 1: a responsibility to put his life on the line, then
Speaker 1: we have to change standards for police officers.
Speaker 2: The defense is saying that he didn't have all the
Speaker 2: information he needed to proceed, and that is such a
Speaker 2: tough argument for anyone to get their heads around.
Speaker 3: When he was there and saw it and hurt it.
Speaker 1: Any officer in the country, I will ask this country
Speaker 1: this question too. If you show up to a school
Speaker 1: where you're told there's a shooter inside, you hear gunfire,
Speaker 1: you're on the scene, what do you do? And if
Speaker 1: you're telling me your correct response is to stand outside,
Speaker 1: stay on the radio.
Speaker 2: And wait for seventy seven minutes and again other officers.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure when the other officers arrive, but there
Speaker 1: were plenty on the scenes. But I'm saying, first officer,
Speaker 1: what is his I would love to and I will
Speaker 1: we know officers. I will ask a bunch of them,
Speaker 1: what is it? What would you do? What are you
Speaker 1: supposed to do? I don't know what training is somebody
Speaker 1: in their shooting kids.
Speaker 2: They're testifying and they will continue to, I'm sure, bring
Speaker 2: up to your point exactly that exact question. And so
Speaker 2: far those who have answered have all said, your job
Speaker 2: is to go in. Your job is to stop to shoot.
Speaker 1: Do you remember what did they have to physically keep
Speaker 1: parents from going? Yes, Okay, here's the thing. This is text.
Speaker 2: They were tackling parents who were trying to get past
Speaker 2: the police to get to their kids.
Speaker 1: This is the thing. This is Texas. And if a
Speaker 1: Texas parent who is armed had made it to that
Speaker 1: school before Gonzales, I bet the outcome would be different.
Speaker 3: I agree. I just got chills thinking about it.
Speaker 1: I walked in that school. You would have walked in
Speaker 1: that school, oh, like like.
Speaker 2: You would have to tackle me, you would have to
Speaker 2: restrain me. And that did happen. That did happen. They
Speaker 2: were restraining parents, Babe. That is what is so disgusting.
Speaker 1: We're not gonna save your kid, but you can't go
Speaker 1: save your kid.
Speaker 2: You gotta be fucking no way. So we mentioned that
Speaker 2: there is precedence. This is the second time in US
Speaker 2: history that prosecutors have tried to hold a member of
Speaker 2: law enforcement accountable for their inaction to a mass shooting.
Speaker 2: This was just in twenty twenty three, so just two
Speaker 2: years ago. But a Florida jury acquitted the officer. It
Speaker 2: was a Broward County Sheriff's deputy. He was charged with
Speaker 2: similar charges because of his inaction during the Parkland shootings,
Speaker 2: and he was acquitted.
Speaker 1: See I'm sorry I didn't look into it enough. But
Speaker 1: what was the argument? Like was the defense arguing there? Yep.
Speaker 2: His lawyers argued that his role as an armed school
Speaker 2: resource officer did not amount to a caregiving post and
Speaker 2: that the response to.
Speaker 3: The shooting was muddled by poor communication.
Speaker 2: So it seems as though they're doing or using this
Speaker 2: defense is already kind of taking on that similar defense.
Speaker 2: It was confusing, he didn't have all the information he needed.
Speaker 2: There was confusing communication. Do you the guy break yes, exactly.
Speaker 2: So it worked in Parkland and I think they're hoping
Speaker 2: that it will work in Uvaldi. But they are very
Speaker 2: different scenarios. And that's seventy seven minutes those nine one
Speaker 2: one calls. You're gonna have parents going up there talking
Speaker 2: about what they saw, what they tried to do to
Speaker 2: get in to save their children. It seems like it
Speaker 2: is going to be a very tall order for them
Speaker 2: to convince a jury.
Speaker 3: Otherwise.
Speaker 1: We are going to keep an eye on this one.
Speaker 1: We will certainly hop back on what time is their
Speaker 1: starting today in court?
Speaker 2: One pm local time, So have a little bit of
Speaker 2: a later start today to hear these arguments.
Speaker 1: All right, We'll keep an eye on this one, folks.
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Speaker 1: couple hours as always, but a busy, busy start to
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. We always appreciate you spend some time
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