1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: Time to go into the vault for an older episode 4 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: of the show. This one originally aired on July nineteen. 5 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: It's about teeth. I'm ready to bite. Yeah, well, let's 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: bite right in and figure out what we're biting with. 7 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,159 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of 8 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: I Heart Radios How to Work. Hey you, welcome to 9 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: and I'm Joe McCormick. And if you've been listening to show, 11 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: you know we just had our friend Katie Golden from 12 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: Creature feature on. I think it was the episode right 13 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: before this one where we talked about teeth with with 14 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: Katie and that was a lot of fun. But Robert, 15 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: I couldn't stop thinking about teeth. Oh yeah, I mean, 16 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: teeth are weird. Teeth are wonderful and strange and grotesque. 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: I was actually just at the dentist yesterday for a checkup, 18 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: and I just kept thinking about just how weird it 19 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: is that that I just regularly go to this place 20 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: and pay another human being to reach into my mouth 21 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: with special instruments and clean my weird bone like jaw protutions. 22 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: The outside bones outside bones. Never forget your teeth are 23 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: outside bones. Their bones that you wash. Oh this this 24 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: is from Kimmy Schmidt. Right, Yeah, Titus Syndromedon sings that song. 25 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: I think he's auditioning for like a chewing gum commercial, 26 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: But he's actually wrong, I'm sorry to say, despite how 27 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: much I love that moment from the show, teeth are 28 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: not outside bones. They are not bones at all. They're 29 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 1: totally different thing. We can explain that in a minute. 30 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, I mean, well, let's go ahead and 31 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: get into it. So, yeah, our teeth are bone like 32 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: in many respects. Uh yeah, but they are not bones. 33 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: So just for an example, bones are composed of calcium, phosphorus, sodium, 34 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: and other minerals. Uh and but mostly it's the protein 35 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: call legend that forms the living growing collagen framework in bones. 36 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: Bones have impressive regenerative powers. You break a bone, it 37 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: can even like a really vicious break of a bone, 38 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: and it can heal back. Also, bone marrow produces red 39 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: and white blood cells. Teeth do not have bone marrow. Instead, 40 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: they have dental pulp. So teeth, on the other hand, 41 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: are you know, they're composed of calcium, phosphorus and other minerals. 42 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: They're harder than any bone that we have in the body. Yeah, 43 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 1: but they also lack the regenerative powers of bones. So 44 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: if you crack or break a tooth, you're gonna need 45 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 1: at least a root canal, if not a total extraction. 46 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: That is kind of strange. That seems I wonder what 47 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: the evolutionary reason for that is. I would expect, you know, 48 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: there would be a strong pressure on the ability to 49 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: regenerate teeth. Well, it depends on how this really gets 50 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: into like the bigger questions of of biological mortality, right, 51 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: like what do you need your teeth for? How long 52 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: are you going to be a viable organism? How long 53 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: do you need to live, you know, in order to 54 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: accomplish your genetic mission of you know, reproduction, uh and 55 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 1: so forth, and and you know, the evolution isn't really 56 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 1: concerned with long term dental health beyond that point. Well maybe, yeah, 57 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: maybe we don't need teeth because um, well, for one thing, 58 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: we're not like sharks, right, We're not just like biting 59 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: indiscriminately into whole organisms and you know, cross bones and 60 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: stuff like that. We we tend to if we're eating 61 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: an animal, we kill it before we start biting into it. 62 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: Uh so you know, you you would be able to 63 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: have the time to seek out the soft parts to 64 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: bite into, and so you're not using your teeth in 65 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: a kind of like violent, fast moving kind of way 66 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: like a lot of other organisms would. Yeah, and and 67 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: and it really drives home one of the one of 68 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: the key and I guess kind of obvious things that 69 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna touch on here and there is 70 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: that as as organisms evolve, their teeth are going to 71 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: change to meet the demands of their diet. And if 72 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: if you're if you do not need your robust teeth 73 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: of old anymore, well, those those teeth are going to change, 74 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: and you're gonna end up with a dental model that 75 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: is going to be more in keeping with what you're 76 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: actually going to use your choppers for. It's funny, you 77 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: could think of teeth in a way as a form 78 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: of convergent evolution. So like the same way that you 79 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: see uh, wings evolving independently in different lines of animals. 80 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: It's not that everything on Earth that has wings evolved 81 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: from a common winged ancestor. So wings arose in one 82 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: case in insects, and then they separately arose in you know, mammals, 83 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: They rose in bats and stuff, and then they separately 84 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: arose in the dinosaurs that became birds, and then also 85 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: in the other the flying reptiles, right, which are not dinosaurs, 86 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: but also independently evolved wings. Uh. So, so you see 87 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: winged flight evolving over and over despite the fact that 88 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: all these organisms don't come from wings of a common 89 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: ancestor organism that I mean, I guess if you go 90 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: far back enough, they all do have a common ancestor, 91 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: but it didn't have wings. Um. And you can see 92 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: a kind of similar thing in different things we call 93 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: teeth that you know, lots of organisms have an opening 94 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: of the elementary tract. They've got a mouth of some 95 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: kind or another, and it it just often happens to 96 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: be the case that organisms evolve a need to mash 97 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: and crush and cut things that are going into the 98 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: front of the elementary tract. And that's how you get 99 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: these different evolutions of things that are like teeth. Uh. 100 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: And there there are a lot of different things you 101 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: might call teeth, and not all are evolutionarily related to 102 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: the calcified structures we see in animals like ourselves. In fact, 103 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: one great example of a whole different kind of of 104 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: twothworld that I was thinking about just recently is uh. 105 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: It reminds me of this controversy over the mouth of 106 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: a Cambrian predator that I have been calling Anomala carus 107 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: or Anomala carress. I just found out that some people 108 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: pronounce it anomalachrus. And now now I feel like my 109 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: whole world has been turned on its head. I don't 110 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: know which to say, but I think I'm gonna keep 111 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: saying Anomala caress even if that's wrong, for the sake 112 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: of consistency. This is this is basically, if you've ever 113 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: been to a natural history museum, you've probably seen a 114 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: representation of this. Uh, this this prehistoric fish. Yeah, I mean, 115 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: well not a fish, well fish like organism and the 116 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: this long predating fish. So the Cambrian period, of course, 117 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: you know, it's roughly five hundred million years ago. It's 118 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: the first time in the history and the fossil record 119 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: of Earth where we suddenly see this explosion and diversity 120 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: of animal body forms. You know, before this, there were animals, 121 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: and most of them had soft bodies and leave very 122 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,239 Speaker 1: little records. But there were things like worms of various 123 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: kinds um But but then suddenly around the Cambrian period 124 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: you see all these different life forms emerging, and a 125 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: lot of the life worms have hard shells. This is 126 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: where you see the explosion of trilobytes. It sometimes thought 127 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: of as the Age of trialobytes, which are these scuttling 128 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: you know, almost like insect or crab like creatures that 129 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: would move along the bottom of ocean floors and have 130 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: these hard shells on their backs. But Anomala carrass or 131 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: Anomalocros appears to have been the top predator or one 132 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: of the top predators of the Cambrian period, which was 133 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: and it was this lobed swimming predator that grew up 134 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: to about six ft long. And when the fossils of 135 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: Anomala carrass were first discovered, paleontologists thought that they were 136 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: actually looking at two different species because it's a mostly 137 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: soft bodied organism, so its entire body usually doesn't get 138 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: preserved or doesn't get preserved very well. And since most 139 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: of their bodies are these soft parts that don't get fossilized. 140 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: Usually there were really only two parts of the body 141 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: that paleontologists kept finding. These two parts were, first of all, 142 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: these little pairs of shrimp looking things that they would 143 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: come in pairs, and they would kind of have these 144 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: curved shapes and they, I mean, they look like shrimp shells. 145 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: That's the best way to put it. And that's actually 146 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: where the name of Anomala carus comes from. H Anomala 147 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: carus means, you know, anomaly in cars means weird shrimp 148 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: or usual unusual shrimp. So you have these pairs of shrimps. 149 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: And then the other part that they would often find 150 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: would be these circular rings of hard looking plates. Now, 151 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: the shrimp looking things we actually feel we actually figured 152 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: out that these two different things actually were different parts 153 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: of the same organism, this Cambrian predator. And so the 154 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: shrimp looking things, it turned out, were curly we think, 155 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 1: feeding tentacles that were on the underside of the head. 156 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: So you'd see this thing swimming along. It's got the 157 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: eyes in the front and then sort of as a mouth, 158 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: it's got this like, you know, two lobed mustache of 159 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: shrimp tentacles that we think probably could kind of like 160 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: grab things and push them towards mouth parts, and then 161 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: the mouth parts would be the other part that gets fossilized, 162 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: that ring of plates, that's the mouth, that's sort of 163 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: halo of teeth like a tooth lined sphincter of death. 164 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: I mean, really, that's all a mouth is, is that 165 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: it is the it is the anti anus, it's the 166 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,439 Speaker 1: other the other side of the organism. Yeah, just imagine 167 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: like like an anus that's just surrounded by a circle 168 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: of teeth that move inward. Right, And as we've discussed, 169 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: we had we did a whole at least one whole 170 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: episode on the evolution of the anus, and of course 171 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: you didn't always have two openings in organisms. You had 172 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 1: organisms that had to depend on one um orifice for 173 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: both functions, right, Which is amazing that that we're not 174 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: saying that's the case with a no, no, not at all. 175 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 1: We're just sort of demystifying the difference between the anus 176 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: and the mouth. Actually, I don't know for sure whether 177 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: an Almala cars had an anus or not, but I'm 178 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,839 Speaker 1: pretty sure it had an anus. I had to get 179 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: had some form of venus, right, it had, I would 180 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: have to guess it had a one way digestive system, right. 181 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: I mean those we discussed in those episodes. There are 182 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: organisms that not or come to not have an anus. 183 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: You know, sometimes an organism in a certain phase of 184 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: its life no longer has to worry with defecating, or 185 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: has come to a situation where it cannot defecate anymore 186 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: and we'll just have to live with it. Yeah, certain 187 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: varieties of scorpion that have lost their anus because their 188 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: anus was on what like a third or fourth segment 189 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: of their tail, which they jettison to escape a predict. 190 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: It's a very sad scorpion story. But to the Anomala 191 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: carus mouth So from what I can tell, there's actually 192 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: still scientific disagreement about those mouth parts, about that sphincter 193 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 1: of death, about that ring of teeth pointing inward. So 194 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: it has long been assumed that Anomala Carus preyed on 195 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: trial bytes in one way or another. But how right? 196 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 1: Trial bytes have these really hard protective shells on their backs, 197 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: and some paleontologists thought, well, maybe the Anomala Carus would 198 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: eat them by attacking them right after mole thing when 199 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: their shells would have been soft, or maybe it would 200 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: attack them by like scooping them up with its little 201 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: feeding shrimps, the feeding tentacles, and then cracking or prying 202 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: off the shell somehow with those rings of plate like 203 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: teeth in the mouth. But I've read criticisms of this 204 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: model coming from the last decade or so, basically saying 205 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: that some current models of the Anomala carus mouth show 206 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: that it just would not have been strong enough to 207 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: crack through trialobyte shells, and maybe maybe it had to 208 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: feed on soft bodied organisms like jellyfish or worms instead. 209 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: I don't know if the idea of eating trio bytes 210 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: right after molting would get around this problem. It might 211 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: or it might not. Um So, did the Anomala cars 212 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: actually have this this crushing sphincter of deadly teeth or not? 213 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know if we know the answer 214 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: to this right now. This seems like a still open question. 215 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it did have these plates, it did 216 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: have these mouth parts, but we don't know how strong 217 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: its mouth was. Yeah, it is just so weird to 218 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: look at a representation of these because it's like it's 219 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: it's it's the sphincter of death. Like you said, but 220 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: it's also this feeling. It's that it's like a teeth. 221 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: It's like teeth made of broken glass, you know. Uh, 222 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: it's it's very strange to to look at. Yeah, it 223 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: was originally thought when people found the mouthparts in isolation, 224 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: so you just be this ring of plates, and they 225 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: didn't know it was the same organism as the pair 226 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 1: of weird shrimps. They I think originally thought this might 227 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: have been some part of of like weird old jellyfish. 228 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: All right, on that note, we're gonna take a quick break, 229 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: but when we come back, we will continue to explore, 230 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: to explore the weird wide world of teeth. So another thing, uh, 231 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: you know, we were saying, of course again that teeth 232 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: are not outside bones. As great as the song is, 233 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: they're not bones at all. They're these hardened structures. And 234 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: one question is where do teeth come from? Like what 235 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: is their evolutionary history as we know them? And the 236 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: current evidence indicates that the earliest known teeth evolved and 237 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: I guess this would be different than like the Cambrian 238 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: sort of mouth plates. This would be like teeth in 239 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: jawed animals, you know. Uh, the earliest known teeth evolved 240 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: not as adapted bones, because that's where you sort of think, right, 241 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: You think, well, you know you had some bone structures 242 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: and overtime those evolved into tooth like shapes. Sos of 243 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: the bones would be coming out of the jaw and 244 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 1: doing that. But actually it looks like the earliest teeth 245 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: evolved and not as adapted bones, but as adapted fish scales. 246 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: I was looking at a paper from Biology Letters in 247 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: by Martin Rooklin and Philip C. J. Donohue uh called 248 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: roman Dina and the Evolutionary Origin of Teeth basically finds 249 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: evidence from a species called roman Dina stalina, which is 250 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: an extinct plaqueoderm, and a plaque aderm is a type 251 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: of armor plated ancestral fish from more than four hundred 252 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: million years ago. One plaque aderm you've probably seen fossils 253 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: of before, is the awesome, the terrifying dunk Leosteus. This 254 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: is another superstar of a sort of a prehistoric creature 255 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: exhibits and museums. Yeah, you look up a dunkle osteous 256 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: cast or a dunkle Osteus skull. I mean, it's chomp city, 257 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: just unbelievable, and they got huge. Imagine this gigantic fish 258 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: with this chomp city head. It is definitely something out 259 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: of a movie. Oh yeah, well, like why we keep 260 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: making all these shark tech movies. They need to make 261 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: a movie about this. You can caught Dunkles like a monster. 262 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: It would be just named Dunkles, I like it, or 263 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: just dunks dunks dunks dunk dunks, dunk dunk dunk dunks. 264 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, okay, but anyway. In the study X ray 265 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: analysis of fossil remains of this fish, again, this is 266 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: not dunkle Osteus. This is a different plaque. DRM Roman 267 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: Dina Stalina showed that scales evolved first the fish. Scales 268 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: evolved first, and then teeth evolved in the s line 269 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: of fish as an adapted type of scale cell along 270 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: a structure called the toothplate. And isn't it weird how 271 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: scales became so many different things like bird feathers evolutionarily 272 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: are adapted from ancestral reptile scales. Scales over time grew 273 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: into these these filaments and things that eventually became feathers. 274 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: But it's also thought that mammal fur and mammal hair 275 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: are adapted from scales of a common ancestor. Well, I 276 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: mean they've they've had time, right, That's that's one way 277 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: to look at it. And it seems like teeth or 278 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: another example here and these fish from four hundred million 279 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: years ago, it looks like teeth are coming out of 280 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: the adaptation of scale cells. Now as we uh, you know, 281 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: we're gonna go ahead and jump the time machine and go, 282 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: you know, go go go forward in time here, and 283 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: you know, it's easy to sort of fall into the 284 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: trap of thinking, okay, certainly, especially when we get into 285 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: mammal teeth, we're basically talking about the same scenario in 286 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: any given organism, right, I mean, yeah, you're your dog's 287 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: teeth don't look quite like human teeth, but there are 288 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: a lot of parallels. A cow's teeth don't look exactly 289 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: like a dog's teeth, but there are a lot of parallels. 290 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: You know. But then again, as we know from our 291 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: conversation with Katie, I mean, beaver teeth just chuck the 292 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: boat over, right, And another one that really chucks the 293 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: boat over are the are the teeth of elephants. And 294 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: they're extinct ken Because when when you look at an 295 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: elephant or a mastodon or a mammoth. First of all, 296 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: they are polyphiodonts rather than uh, diffidants, meaning that they're 297 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: psych They cycle through teeth their entire life rather than 298 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: depending on a mere two sets of teeth, So more 299 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: kind of like sharks to an extent. Basically like with 300 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: a human, you have you have two sets. You got 301 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: that first set, those baby teeth, and you get those 302 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: adults set, uh, the adult teeth, and you've got to 303 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: make that adult set last because those are the ones 304 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: that are supposed to take you to the grave. Uh. 305 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: With the elephant is a different scenario. Uh, there's still 306 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: a limited number of teeth. It's not just teeth forever, 307 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: but it's it's but it's also just a totally different 308 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: um like way that they grow. So you have long 309 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: ridges of teeth that move not from bottom to top. 310 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: You know, like when when you think of like a child, 311 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: a young child about their their their they lose their 312 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: baby teeth and then those adult teeth grow up out 313 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: of the jaw, like down down in the jaw and 314 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: then they load up to the yeah or or down 315 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:28,919 Speaker 1: or you know, they come down and they come up 316 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 1: out of the jaw. Right. Well, it's great to see 317 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: those like cross sections of the jawbone at the baby 318 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: teeth still in there is just disgusting. It's like, how 319 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: could you ever look at a child the same way again? 320 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: But with elephants, you have long ridges of teeth that 321 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: move from back to front along upper and lower jaws lowly, 322 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: slowly wearing into a shelf at the front as the 323 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: roots are absorbed. So segments of the warranteeth in these 324 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: teeth are are oblong looking things too, so bay Basically, 325 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: they just move out of the back of the jaw 326 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 1: along to the front of the jaw and then they 327 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: break off in sections, sort of like a pez dispenser 328 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 1: or one way I like to think of it. It's 329 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 1: it's kind of like a toblarown bar. Each elephant tooth 330 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: or masted on tooth is a toblaroom bar that gets 331 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: worn down and as it reaches the front, segments of 332 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: that tobler room bar just fall out, and then in 333 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 1: the back of the jaw, new fresh teeth are growing out. Uh, 334 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: you know, growing out of roughly the same place you know, 335 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: where your wisdom teeth would be located. So this alone 336 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: is crazy. You know, most animals have vertically grown choppers. 337 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 1: But elephants and the kin of elephants essentially have six 338 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: sets of molars that that replace over time. So basically 339 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: the way the cycle goes is that, uh, they have 340 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: you know, one set of molars at birth, um, and 341 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: they keep those for about they lose those after two years. 342 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: Then they get a second set, lose those at six years, 343 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: and they get a third set, of fourth at a 344 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: fifth set in a sixth set, and then the and 345 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 1: in rare circumstances they will get a seventh set of 346 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: molars that come out of the back. But then that's 347 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: how you know you're dealing with like a real silver back. 348 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: Like well, it's actually one way that the scientists are 349 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: able to age the remains of elephants, Like you find 350 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 1: the remains of the jaw and you can look and 351 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: you can see you can learn a lot from it. 352 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: If it's a different type of elephant, can you know, 353 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: if it's mammoth or mastered on you can you can 354 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: study exactly what kind of foods it was eating based 355 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: on what those teeth look like. But then if it's 356 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: a particularly old elephant, um, well, look I'll say first 357 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: let's say it was a you know, an adult elephant 358 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 1: that wasn't too old, then you would see like the 359 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: warren teeth, and then you would see in the back 360 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: where fresh teeth were growing out. But then in the 361 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: an older adult elephant, it's on its last set the 362 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 1: hole in the back of the jaw, back on each 363 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: side of the jaw would be closed. It has just 364 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: become solid bone again because it is on its last 365 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: set of teeth, and those are the teeth that are 366 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: going to take it to the grave. I can't remember 367 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: if you already said this or the teeth. Is it 368 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,959 Speaker 1: born with all these teeth already there or do the 369 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: teeth like generate over time they generate? Okay, yeah, they're 370 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: not already loaded back there. Um, so these are also 371 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: these are known as high it's known as hind molar progression, 372 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 1: also known as marching molars, which I particularly like that 373 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: one because there's this idea that they're marching from the 374 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: back of the jaw towards the front. And the main 375 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: other extent creatures that have these are the manatees, which 376 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 1: I'll get back to in a bit. And interestingly enough, 377 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 1: the manatees have them, but the doo gong, the relative 378 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: of the manatee does not. Kangaroo molars also apparently work 379 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: in this fashion. Um. But but then other creatures like you. 380 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: You might look to the rock higher ax, which is 381 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: the elephants rodent like relative. But even though it has 382 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: some elephant like qualities to its uh to, its teeth, 383 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: including two rodent like front teeth, are actually tiny tusts. 384 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: It doesn't have marching molars. Um. But I mentioned already 385 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: how the elephant molars are also elongated. Uh. They they 386 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 1: They're really crazy to look at because it looks like 387 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 1: fused teeth in a sense. It's it's like a big 388 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: long chunk of teeth and it's essentially it has enamel 389 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: loops for grinding plant matter. So that's what the elephants 390 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: using these for. It's just grinding top to molars against 391 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: bottom molars and uh and that is of course wearing 392 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: the teeth down as well, thus the need to continually 393 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: replace them. Right, the elephant is herbivore. It's gonna be 394 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: eating rough plant matters, so it needs sort of a 395 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: mortal mortar and pestle in the mouth to to mash 396 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: it up real good. Yeah. But again, when the when 397 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 1: the teeth are done that's it. And this is going 398 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: to lead in the wild especially, is going to lead 399 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: to malnutrition and or starvation. So I encourage everyone to 400 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: think about elephant teeth the next time you see an elephant. 401 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: Certainly if you have the chance to see one in 402 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: the wild, but if you see one in a zoo 403 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 1: or what have you, Like, it's teeth are or as 404 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: amazing as any other amazing quality of the elephant. Like, yes, 405 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: it's trunk is a is a is a marvel of 406 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: the natural world. But also it's teeth are just so 407 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: super weird. Yeah, this high capacity magazine of molars, Yeah 408 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: it is. It's like a magazine a pet dispenser of 409 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: teeth um And it's just it's just not what you 410 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: come to expect from teeth in general. Like you know, 411 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: even even a shark, right, it continually grows those teeth, 412 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: but they're growing out of sort of flipping out of 413 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: the jaw top and bottom. But the the elephant has 414 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: a different system entirely. Now, what is the deal with 415 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,679 Speaker 1: tusks since we're talking about elephants, Because we talked with 416 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: Katie and we've talked on the show before about the 417 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: idea of narwhal tusks. How the narwhal tusks are not 418 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: like modified bones. They are teeth, you know, their teeth 419 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 1: jutting up just straight forward, straight out of the mouth. Yeah, 420 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: they're they're modified incisors. Is the deal? Oh even an elephants? 421 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so um so yeah, it's it's easy to 422 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,959 Speaker 1: sort of look at tusks and even if you know 423 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: they're not horns, you kind of like think of them, 424 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 1: you kind of categorize them in the same in the 425 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: same area. So, yeah, elephants are are weird wonderful creatures, 426 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,239 Speaker 1: uh that we've we've been looking at them so long. 427 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: There's such a famous animal we can you know, they're 428 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: in our story books as as as children, they're in 429 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: our animated films. You kind of forget how weirdly alien 430 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 1: they are in many many regards. Is it weird that 431 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: I'm just imagining now what it would be like to 432 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: get bitten by an elephant? I don't know. I keep 433 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: thinking trying to imagine what that would be like to 434 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 1: have um marching molars, to have that kind of dental situation. 435 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 1: And granted we wouldn't because we do not need to 436 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: have that for our diet, but if we did, like, 437 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: can you imagine your teeth growing in from the back 438 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: and then they like breaking off in the front. Also 439 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: their soft foods. Yeah, all right, let's take one more 440 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: break and we come back. I want to talk just 441 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: a little bit about an tee teeth. Okay, alright, we're back. 442 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: So we've talked about manatees on the show before. Um mana, 443 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: teach me something, Robert. Well. Manatees are, of course marine mammals, 444 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: and they are Serenians. Uh, they have a few living 445 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: kid that will get to oh SERENI. So are they 446 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: named after the sirens? Exactly? Yeah, tying into the whole, uh, 447 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: you know, mistaking manatees for mermaid thing. Now, their closest 448 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: living relatives are the elephants, and they're kind of like 449 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 1: the elephants of the sea in some respects, you know, 450 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 1: drifting through the waters feasting on vegetation. There are three 451 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 1: extant varieties of manatees. There's the Amazonian manateee, the West 452 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: Indian manateee, and the West African manateee, and all of 453 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 1: them have marching molars, much like the elephants. But then 454 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: I was reading around a little bit of this about 455 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: this and there's a. There's another variety of Serenian that 456 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: went extinct in the eighteen hundreds, and this was Stellar's 457 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: sea cow. Now it apparently, uh, this was a Serenian 458 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: that already had a rather narrow habitat. It was already 459 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: like you could make the argument, I think that was 460 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: already kind of endangered before human activity really put the 461 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,239 Speaker 1: nail in the casket here. But it actually didn't have 462 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: true teeth. Uh. It had instead what has been described 463 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 1: as broad horny pads that it used to chew the 464 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: soft parts of kelp, which made up most of its diet. 465 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:31,439 Speaker 1: And this leads us to the other existing Serenian, and 466 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: that's the Eastern Hemisphere hemispheres do Gong, which looks very 467 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: similar to a manity, but it has a shorter snout 468 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: which kind of you often see it in pictures. It 469 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 1: looks like a vacuum cleaner because it's essentially what it is. 470 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: It's cleaning, it's it's eating off the bottom. Uh. And 471 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: it also has a flute tail that looks much like 472 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: a whale um. But then you really have to think 473 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: about its teeth. So it has no marching molars. It 474 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: does not have the marching molars of a manatee. Uh. 475 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: They also have incisors, which are essentially a little tusks, 476 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: which manatees are lacking. But the thing about doo gongs 477 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: is that they also have horny pads in their mouths 478 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: for chewing, and they are more important than their actual teeth. 479 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: The cheek teeth are almost a non functioning and um 480 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: and are not very tough to begin with. So I 481 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 1: was reading a few different papers about them from J. M. 482 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: Lanyon and G. D. Sanson in the Journal of Zoology, 483 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: and they point out that regarding doo gongs, quote, the 484 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 1: soft mouth parts of the doo gong are highly modified 485 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 1: so that the entire oral cavity functions to crush low 486 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 1: fiber sea grasses. Thus, the doo gong has developed an 487 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: efficient method of food ingestion, and mastication that is suited 488 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: to put processing large quantities of soft sea grass during 489 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: short dive times. The potential cost to the doo gong 490 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: and having lost its hard dental surfaces is that it 491 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: has become restricted to a low fiber diet. So this 492 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: is interesting. The do going eats mostly seagrass, while manatees, 493 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: who again have these more robust teeth and have these 494 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: marching molars. They eat roughly sixty different varieties of fresh 495 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: and saltwater plants. Um. I've read that the difference in 496 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 1: the snout also means that manatees can sort of reach 497 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 1: out a little bit because they just have a more 498 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 1: vary diet. UM. Manatees have also been observed to occasionally 499 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: eat fish from nets. So, you know, we generally think 500 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: of them as herbivores, and you know, for the most 501 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: part they are, but it seems like if they have 502 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 1: the chance to eat a fish out of a net, uh, 503 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: they will do so. And so we have another example 504 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: of opportunistic carnivory. Yeah. Meanwhile, the doo gong is apparently 505 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: not engaging in this in this behavior that we know of, 506 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: So that would mean that the doo gong is really 507 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: the only true marine herbivore mammal in the world, the 508 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: only marine herbivore mammal. Wow. So I guess I'm trying 509 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: to think of counter examples. What I can't because you 510 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 1: know what I it is. I think of a lot 511 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: of like filter feeding whales as herbivores, and they're not. 512 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: They're eating you know, the microscopic animals, their carnivores. Yeah, 513 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: we we we we. We don't think of them as 514 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: such because they're not trying to eat us. I mean, uh, 515 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 1: you know whale myths aside, the animals they eat are 516 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: very small. It's like, are you a carnivore if you 517 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: only popcorn shrimp? Some people might not think so, but 518 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: but I love I love this as a kind of 519 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: a closing example to look at this as the you know, 520 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 1: the doo gong, the manatee and Stellar sea cow as 521 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: being examples just within the Sirenian world of how teeth 522 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: change with diet and how you can have kind of 523 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: you know, rapidly different like the idea you have marching 524 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,239 Speaker 1: molars in the manatee and Stellar's sea cow didn't have 525 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: teeth at all, and then the doo gong is kind 526 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: of in this place in between the two. I just 527 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: find that fascinating. And and again, any any chance I 528 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: have to explain how cool manatees are, I've got to 529 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: take it because a man of teas are just amazing 530 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: creatures and if you have the chance to see some 531 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: in the wild, you should definitely do so. I got 532 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: to see some just the other week. I was down 533 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: at downe in Florida at what is it Wakula or 534 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: I've also heard Waccola Springs. Got to see multiple manatees 535 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: and baby manatees. It was breath tick. Now, the same 536 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 1: way that the manatee and the dugong may have inspired 537 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: the Legends of the Mermaid, did the manatees of Wakula 538 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,719 Speaker 1: Springs inspire the Creature of the Black Lagoon? The Creature 539 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: from the Blackgan They did film some some scenes there um, 540 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,719 Speaker 1: mainly like the you know, just the swamp footage. Is 541 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: the stuff that they filmed there at the springs. Yeah, 542 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: but they weren't you telling me, like they can't do 543 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: licensed stuff, like they can't actually have creature materials. They 544 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: were at least I think maybe maybe they're not willing, 545 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: you know, they're not willing or able to pay out 546 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: for the licensing phase. I'm not privy to the details, 547 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: So I just know that a few years ago they 548 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: had some creature memorabilia there and now there's not any. 549 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: But they were showing in Creature from the Black Lagoon 550 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: one evening in the lobby and so that was kind 551 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: of cool to have gone out on the swamp during 552 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,719 Speaker 1: the day and then at night, like to see this 553 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: old movie and see these scenes from it, and it's like, oh, well, 554 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: there you go. I went by there in a boat 555 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: just several hours ago. Uh. I think we've established on 556 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: the show that we're firmly on the side of the 557 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: creature in the country from the Black Lagoon, and that 558 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: the heroes are awful. Yes, there's the alleged scientists in 559 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: that in that show are are are awful. There's a 560 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: life form shoot it. Luckily those are not the scientists 561 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: that are involved in taking care of manatees today. Hey, folks, 562 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: if we suddenly sound different, we just jumped into another 563 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: space and time. So here we are again. I just 564 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: wanted to close out with another quick grab bag of 565 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: teeth related stuff that I couldn't stop thinking about. Robert. 566 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: You remember at the end of our episode with Katie 567 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: where goose teeth came up, right, Yeah, so of course, Um, 568 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: geese can sometimes I didn't mean to demonize geese by 569 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: the way when talking to Katie, but geese can be 570 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,959 Speaker 1: surprisingly aggressive. I think we don't usually worry about birds 571 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: getting territorial and attacking us, but if you get too 572 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: close to a goose nest, you're you're asking for trouble, right, Yeah, 573 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: they're They're more fierce than we sometimes realize. They're also 574 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: sott smarter than we sometimes realize. Like there's certainly no 575 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: no Corvid's, but there have been some interesting studies that 576 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,959 Speaker 1: have put them to the test with the various tasks 577 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: and they can actually perform well. Yeah, and so I 578 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: think in that episode with Katie we actually talked a 579 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: little bit about goose teeth. Now, goose don't actually have 580 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: biological teeth with denton and enamel. But if you have 581 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: not seen an image of the serrated edges of death 582 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: writhing like the dead lights inside a goose mouth, you 583 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: have got to go search for this right now. It's 584 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: an image that you must see. They're a bunch of 585 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: them all over the internet. Uh, Robert, I added one 586 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: to your notes, But oh, you might not have your 587 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: notes right in front of you, do you. I do not. Well, 588 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: it's just got knives in the mouth basically along the 589 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: edge of the so basically like the tongue and the 590 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: beak are both covered in these fierce jagged sawtooth spines 591 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: around the lateral edges and um. The most recent evidence 592 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: indicates that existing birds to send from ancestors that lost 593 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: their teeth in a multi stage process that took place 594 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: roughly between I think about one D sixteen one hundred 595 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: one million years ago. Um. So, if you're out there 596 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: listener asking, wait a minute, lost their teeth? Birds lost 597 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: their teeth. Yes, because, as we've talked about plenty of times, 598 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: birds evolve from dinosaurs that definitely had teeth. Arcosaurs archaeopterics 599 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: had teeth, and it appears that this period, around a 600 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: hundred million years ago, they acquired gene mutations that changed 601 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: a couple of things. They change jaw development to stop 602 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: the development of teeth as as they matured, and to 603 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: cause the development of beaks instead. And one consequence of 604 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: this knowledge is that if we can suppress the molecular 605 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: their pathways for the gene that suppresses the growth of 606 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: teeth in birds, you know, the gene that turns off 607 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: tooth development, you turn off the turnoff there, we can 608 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: sort of create birds with teeth again. And in fact, 609 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: a group of researchers actually did this and and publish 610 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: their findings in Current Biology way back in two thousand six. 611 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: You've probably I bet this has come up on the 612 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: show before at least maybe a while ago, right, was 613 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: the transforming of chickens into tiny dinosaurs. Yeah, they already 614 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: are tiny dinosaurs they respect, but they are very much tyrannosaurss. 615 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: But in this case, I think the resemblance is slightly 616 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: less to the therapod dinosaurs and more to crocodilians, because 617 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: when they made a couple of genetic tweaks or epigenetic 618 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: tweaks to embryonic chickens, the embryos grew teeth that resembled 619 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: the conical teeth you would see in the mouth of 620 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: an alligator or crocodile, indicating that these were probably pretty 621 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: similar to the teeth of ancestral birds more than a 622 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: hundred million years ago. So the goose does not have 623 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: true teeth. But I wonder if you could crisper up 624 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: like a really awful fanged crocodile goose from the deep past. 625 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: I bet that could be done, though I don't know 626 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: if it would survive development with the mutation. Yeah, I'm 627 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 1: not sure about that, but but I do love this 628 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: example because it kind of goes back to what we're 629 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: exploring with the Syreneans, that if if teeth are no 630 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: longer needed, if they are no longer the best means 631 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: of masticating food or or or helping to you know, 632 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,839 Speaker 1: to aid in the ingestion of food. They're not going 633 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: to stay around forever. I mean, they're they're they're like 634 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,240 Speaker 1: anything in the body, they're they're a costly investment. Yeah. 635 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 1: This is one of the things that that we often 636 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: fail to remember when we think about evolution without taking 637 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: like energy and development concerns in mind, we think of 638 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,240 Speaker 1: evolution primarily as a process of addition. But what episode 639 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: was it just recently on the show where we talked 640 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,840 Speaker 1: about a lot of subtraction evolution. Oh, I think it 641 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: was in the one about the phrase survival of the fittest. Yeah, 642 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,839 Speaker 1: and what that it tends to imply to people who 643 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: you know, uh, if if you haven't thought about it 644 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: all that deeply, one thing is that you get this 645 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: sort of vague impression that maybe it always works by 646 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 1: like adding new powers and not by just subtracting things 647 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: that are useless expenses. Right. And and we also, yeah, 648 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: I think discussed as we've discussed before, this whole idea 649 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: of something devolving. You know, it's like no evolution. Uh, 650 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: you can go in either direction. So if you say 651 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 1: your views on the topic, I've evolved, it's not necessarily 652 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 1: a good thing. Right. It's like if you're your HR 653 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: department tells you that your benefits are evolving, not necessarily 654 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 1: a good thing, right, Um, ask more questions to find 655 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 1: out exactly what's going on. Well, yeah, but I mean, yeah, 656 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: there is no devolving. It's all evolving. So some evolving 657 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: and you might like, and some evolving you might not like. 658 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: Who knows. I mean, maybe we could evolve brains that 659 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: just feel excruciating pain every moment of the day for 660 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,919 Speaker 1: no good reason at all. It just happens to work 661 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: that way. Um. But another and interesting evolutionary question is 662 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: why did birds lose their teeth? And this is an 663 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: unsolved probably blow. We don't have a good answer of 664 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: exactly what the evolutionary pressure driving the switch from teeth 665 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: to beaks was. Uh the answer. So one historical hypothesis 666 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: I've read about is that it helped birds lighten their 667 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,240 Speaker 1: bodies to optimize flight dynamics. But I've also read opinions 668 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,799 Speaker 1: that's not a very good explanation because you know, we 669 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,240 Speaker 1: see tons of flying animals with teeth. Teeth don't necessarily 670 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: weigh a whole lot that that seems like that's probably 671 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: not a very good candidate for explaining it. So we 672 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 1: don't fully know the answer. I mean, one would assume 673 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: it would you know, would come down to diet one 674 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 1: way or another. But yeah, you would think so. I mean, 675 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: and one thing you can look at is the different 676 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: kinds of beaks that existing birds have. I mean, beak 677 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: diversity is is enormous across the aviens that used the 678 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 1: beaks for all kinds of different things. We should come 679 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,479 Speaker 1: back and do an episode on beaks, just on beaks, yes, 680 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 1: And we can also talk about the movie Beaks, which 681 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: is maybe the most painful bad horror movie I've ever watched. Yeah, 682 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: it's a rip off of Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds. Uh, 683 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: And so it's just a about birds attacking people. That 684 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: that's That's pretty much all you need to know, except 685 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: it just happens to have this distinction. And you know me, 686 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,919 Speaker 1: I'm somebody who watches tons of bad horror movies. It's 687 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,240 Speaker 1: probably the most excruciating one I ever tried to finish. 688 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: So that would you say this is worse than bird Dimmick? Oh? Yeah, no, 689 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: burd Dimmick is a joy by comparison. I'm not saying 690 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: it's I'm not saying it's worse from a filmmaking skill 691 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 1: point of view, but Burdemic was much more enjoyable and 692 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: it was easy to make it through the runtime. Beaks 693 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: is a film that one of the things, one of 694 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: the things I think about it is that it has 695 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: a soundtrack with like a really uh, just grading synthesizer 696 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: score that has songs. They're not really songs. It's like 697 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: a single very high pitch synthesizer note held down for 698 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: minutes at a time that starts to just wear on 699 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:52,919 Speaker 1: you as if you you think you have something wrong 700 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: with your ears or your brain. It's like a it's 701 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 1: a soundtrack that mimics tended us or something, and it's 702 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: just really glee to watch. Anyway, we got sidetracked, but yes, 703 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: I think we should come back to an episode on Beaks, 704 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 1: because yeah, beak diversity is is amazing, and so I 705 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: guess that brings us back to the actual goose mouth, 706 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 1: the serrated edges inside there along the tongue, along the 707 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: beak edges. If those aren't teeth, what's going on there 708 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: with those little jagged spines. Uh So, the serrated edges 709 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: in a modern bird's beak that that's made of stuff 710 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: called tomium. These are these little spiny cutting edges that 711 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 1: can be used kind of like teeth. But from what 712 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: I've read, they're they're not usually for what we would 713 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: think of as chewing. They're more for grabbing hold of 714 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,359 Speaker 1: food like plant matter or like live prey and either 715 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,399 Speaker 1: cutting it or gripping it firmly so that the bird 716 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: can like keep hold of it and tear it away 717 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,399 Speaker 1: from anything it's attached to. Uh So, you can see 718 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: this for like, uh, you know, anything that would be 719 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: eating like plant matter and trying to tear it away 720 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: from whatever it's like the stem or something. Or you 721 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: can see it for grabbing hold of a fish and 722 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: making sure it doesn't get away. It's just generally useful 723 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,439 Speaker 1: for like hooking stuff into the mouth, and of course 724 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 1: and for cutting um and for for a bonus in 725 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: bird relatives that also lost their teeth. If you haven't 726 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: looked at this, you should check out the mouths of 727 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: leather back sea turtles. Have you seen this one, Robert, 728 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 1: I don't know that I have seen leather back sea 729 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: turtles before but in the wild. But but I didn't 730 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,880 Speaker 1: get a good look in their mouth. Well, actually, I 731 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 1: think with Katie we were talking about some viral images 732 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: of animal mouths that you think like, Okay, that's got 733 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,840 Speaker 1: to be photoshopped, but actually it turns out to be 734 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: totally real. Leather back sea turtle mouths are like this. 735 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 1: They there's some of the photos of them make the 736 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 1: rounds on the internet, and it looks like a made 737 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: up monster mouth that somebody is passing off as a fake, 738 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 1: real animal. It's totally real. It looks like a vivid 739 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:50,719 Speaker 1: you know, somebody took the bad acid nightmare of It's 740 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 1: hard to explain because these are the ones that they 741 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 1: look they're swirly looking kind of yeah, they don't so 742 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:01,160 Speaker 1: it's not rows of teeth again, their turtles, they don't 743 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: have teeth, but they are these thorns. It's like a 744 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 1: thorn forest. Imagine a sort of fractal sarlac on steroids 745 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,920 Speaker 1: with even more teeth, this forest of thorns going down 746 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: the esophagus. And what this actually is, it's not teeth, 747 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 1: but it's a covering of cartilage based prongs that are 748 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: known as esophageal pappally which what they do is they 749 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 1: help the leather back sea turtle hold onto its prey, 750 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 1: which primarily consists of jellyfish. So imagine you're trying to 751 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 1: eat a jellyfish, this organism that's kind of squishy and 752 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:38,359 Speaker 1: mostly made of water in the water. Yeah, you might 753 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 1: imagine that it's kind of hard to like get that 754 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 1: in the mouth and keep it from slipping out of 755 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: the mouth, especially if you're trying to like eject seawater 756 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: back out of the mouth while you're eating it and 757 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: then to shove it along down through the esophagus. And 758 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 1: apparently the sea turtles have these long digestive tracks that 759 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,600 Speaker 1: can hold a whole bunch of jellyfish in them all 760 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: at the same time while they're sort of waiting to 761 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 1: be processed by the stomach. So yeah, the thorn forest 762 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 1: in the mouth is mainly for grabbing hold of these 763 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 1: gelatinous masses of prey and holding them in place so 764 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,799 Speaker 1: that they don't slip away. But again, another example of 765 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: it's not teeth, but they they fulfill some of the 766 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,360 Speaker 1: purposes that we associate with teeth. Yeah, So that's that's interesting. 767 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 1: If if teeth did not exist, they would evolve necessary 768 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:28,440 Speaker 1: to invent. All right, Well this has been fun, Robert, Yeah, absolutely, 769 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: uh and you know, we again, we only covered so 770 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,319 Speaker 1: many teeth there. There are other amazing examples out there, 771 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: and if anyone listening can think of some really good ones, 772 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,040 Speaker 1: you know, uh, let us know, because we could always 773 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: come back and do another sack full of teeth on 774 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 1: the show. And I would love to do beaks. I was. 775 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,000 Speaker 1: I was up close and personal with a two can 776 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,440 Speaker 1: the other day and um, you know, it's just always 777 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,040 Speaker 1: amazing to look at a beak like that, and uh, yeah, 778 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,319 Speaker 1: I'd love to go through the world of beaks. In 779 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: the meantime, if you want to check out more episodes 780 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: of Stuff to Blow your Mind, you can go to 781 00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. That's the mother ship. 782 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: That's where we'll find them. You'll find various links there 783 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: as well. Uh and hey, if you want to support 784 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: the show, about the best thing you can do is 785 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:08,959 Speaker 1: to rate and review us wherever we have the power 786 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,919 Speaker 1: to do so, and make sure that you have subscribed 787 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 1: to not only Stuff to Blow Your Mind but also 788 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 1: our other show Invention. Huge thanks as always to our 789 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 1: excellent audio producers Seth Nicholas Johnson and Maya Cole. If 790 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: you would like to get in touch with us with 791 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a 792 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 1: topic for the future, or just to say hello, you 793 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 1: can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your 794 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a 795 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,840 Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts 796 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,799 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 797 00:42:47,880 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Blows Joined 798 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,360 Speaker 1: Three Boys, proper posers, Priss