Speaker 1: Episode to sixteen, paying off seventy eight thousand dollars of debt.
Speaker 1: Jen's debt payoff story. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast,
Speaker 1: where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity, and live
Speaker 1: with your life. Here your host Jen and Jill. M
Speaker 1: m m m m m. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast.
Speaker 1: My name is Jen, my name is Jill, and today
Speaker 1: we are sharing my debt payoff story. This is something unique.
Speaker 1: We have not shared our own I mean, we've shared
Speaker 1: bits of our own stories, but never dedicated individual episodes
Speaker 1: to each other. So this episode is for me and
Speaker 1: next week's episode will be Jills. Well, I think this
Speaker 1: is like, why haven't we've done this for more than
Speaker 1: four years? And certainly if someone's been binging us or
Speaker 1: following along for the last few years, you you kind
Speaker 1: of know you, you know our stories that comes out
Speaker 1: in bits and pieces, but to have it consolidated and
Speaker 1: almost like a reintroduction for those who might just be
Speaker 1: finding us, here's a little bit about us. And I'm
Speaker 1: excited to play the role of interview or with you. Jen.
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's going to be things I learned. I'm
Speaker 1: always learning new stuff about you. So I'm excited, I know,
Speaker 1: and I am excited for you to interview me. I
Speaker 1: have shared my story on quite a few different podcasts,
Speaker 1: I guess, never on my own and never from someone
Speaker 1: who I know, uh and knows me so well. So
Speaker 1: it's always really good to be interviewed by someone who
Speaker 1: knows you really well, because they are definitely going to
Speaker 1: ask you about the things that you would not think
Speaker 1: you or want to share. Maybe. So, are you nervous?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess we'll see if I need
Speaker 1: to be nervous, I'll be kind to you. Thank you. Well.
Speaker 1: Before we get into that, we need to tell you
Speaker 1: that this episode is brought to you by Adult Summer Camp.
Speaker 1: Never imagined this would be a thing. Never fought you
Speaker 1: could relive your days of not showering for a week,
Speaker 1: eating marshmallows for dinner, and singing nonsense songs with your friends. Well,
Speaker 1: thanks to our overly nostalgic millennial generation, Adult summer camps
Speaker 1: do exist, and we will be hosting our version June
Speaker 1: through our two Frugal Living Summit. While it is virtual,
Speaker 1: you will get all the camaraderie, new friendships, and learning
Speaker 1: on everything frugal spending related and of course the no showering,
Speaker 1: eating camp fire meals and singing songs is totally up
Speaker 1: to you. For living summit dot com, it's free, get
Speaker 1: your free ticket. I will personally shower. That's a decision
Speaker 1: that I have made. Um last year I decided not
Speaker 1: to shower, just to like live in it, and Travis
Speaker 1: really requested that this year. That's one of the changes
Speaker 1: we make to the itinerary. So anyone's guess what all
Speaker 1: might be an any other day thing. Yeah, but the
Speaker 1: eating hot dogs is definitely goingly. We will for sure
Speaker 1: be eating hot dogs. That's a no brainer. So if
Speaker 1: you love debt payoff stories, which I think if you're
Speaker 1: listening to this one you might, I have a few
Speaker 1: other episodes for you to queue up after this. So
Speaker 1: we've got episode one, which is paying off debt and
Speaker 1: your mental health with Melanie Locker, and it's not paying
Speaker 1: off your mental health, but it's how the two combine.
Speaker 1: Episode one seventy nine paying off thirty three thousand dollars
Speaker 1: of debt and living on half of your income with
Speaker 1: El Martinez. And then we have episode one forty three,
Speaker 1: how our friend Lydia paid off thirty six thousand dollars
Speaker 1: of debt on one income. So those are a few
Speaker 1: good ones to queue up, and hopefully this one will
Speaker 1: be a good one to queue up. In later episodes,
Speaker 1: we'll see taken away Jill's before we get into the
Speaker 1: story of your journey out of debt. Let's back up
Speaker 1: and walk us through your journey into debt. Yes, so
Speaker 1: I grew up in a family where we actually never
Speaker 1: had debt. We just lived paycheck to paycheck, and that
Speaker 1: was kind of enough when never saved, never went on vacations, um,
Speaker 1: kind of never had enough money when an emergency came up.
Speaker 1: It was always like a scramble. Um. My mom used
Speaker 1: to say, we don't have bad credit. We have slow
Speaker 1: credit me and it just takes us some time to
Speaker 1: pay our bills, but we do. So that was what
Speaker 1: I grew up thinking about debt. And so when I
Speaker 1: got to college, I was like, I'm smarter than my
Speaker 1: parents because I'm seventeen and I graduated year early. So
Speaker 1: I am going to get a credit card and be
Speaker 1: smarter about money. And thank god that card was only
Speaker 1: a five limit, because I actually had to wait until
Speaker 1: I was eighteen. Obviously, to get the card, but I
Speaker 1: did wait that whole first year of God, but I
Speaker 1: thought I was smart so that I so I was
Speaker 1: going to have good credit. And what it really did
Speaker 1: was it set me up to kind of have a
Speaker 1: revolving credit on that card throughout college. And I went
Speaker 1: to grad school and I got another credit card because
Speaker 1: they offered a free free companion flight on it, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I'll take my friend in New
Speaker 1: York City because that's wise. I can afford that, right,
Speaker 1: and ended up actually putting more debt on that card
Speaker 1: than I could pay off. So that was like my
Speaker 1: first foray into debt. But my biggest debt was the
Speaker 1: student loans from my graduate program. I got. My undergrad
Speaker 1: was completely paid for by scholarships. But when I went
Speaker 1: to grad school for acupuncture, an oriental medicine, that was
Speaker 1: completely out of pocket and it was a private school
Speaker 1: so there wasn't like any other options for there, and
Speaker 1: so that was fifty thousand dollars and it ballooned up
Speaker 1: to fifty four thousand dollars by the time I got
Speaker 1: serious about paying it off. And then I had a
Speaker 1: car that I got right out of college that also
Speaker 1: gave me. I think it was about ten thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: but I tried to pay as much of that off
Speaker 1: before I got married, so I think that added to
Speaker 1: like part of it. But so I spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time ignoring that debt because as a community acupuncturist,
Speaker 1: So we worked on a model that was like kind
Speaker 1: of pay what you can afford. And I love that.
Speaker 1: I love serving people who with things that they may
Speaker 1: not be able to usually afford, but like serving them
Speaker 1: in that way just kind of reaching more people. Like
Speaker 1: low cost, high volume sort of thing that's always been
Speaker 1: my jam um, not necessarily nonprofit work, but just like
Speaker 1: in a kind of a low price, high volume business
Speaker 1: type of things. So, but it didn't pay well because
Speaker 1: of that, and uh so I had more debt than
Speaker 1: I made in a whole year. And what started this
Speaker 1: whole thing for me in paying it off was that
Speaker 1: when I got engaged to Travis, he brought twenty four
Speaker 1: thou dollars of student loans and was like, I want
Speaker 1: to pay this off immediately as soon as we get married,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I was not not into that.
Speaker 1: But so that's how the journey into seventy eight thousand
Speaker 1: dollars of debt came into plan, and honestly, the two
Speaker 1: credit cards by that point weren't even factored in. Because
Speaker 1: this is a great story. I somebody hit my car
Speaker 1: in a Starbucks parking lot and I came out and
Speaker 1: I didn't know about it. I came out and saw
Speaker 1: it and there was a note on the car, but
Speaker 1: it was just like a dent in the back bumper,
Speaker 1: like it was totally drivable, and their insurance paid for
Speaker 1: it obviously, And instead of using that money to get
Speaker 1: my car fixed, I used to pay off the credit cards.
Speaker 1: Those were tippy Starbucks accident, right, and I just drove
Speaker 1: around with a dent in my bumper four years. Maybe
Speaker 1: I should go to Starbucks more. Yeah, make sure the
Speaker 1: parking a lot of small though. So that was our
Speaker 1: journey into debt. I don't think that I realized eyes
Speaker 1: that it was comprised of more than student loan debt.
Speaker 1: That is that is knowledge for me today. Part of
Speaker 1: the I mean, the car loan was just like maybe
Speaker 1: four thousand of it by the time, like we got shamed. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: But I think it is interesting to recognize that sometimes
Speaker 1: our debts and our journey into debt, and our comfort
Speaker 1: level with debt does have to do with more than
Speaker 1: just the decision we made for higher education and some
Speaker 1: of what we might do around that lifestyle. When you
Speaker 1: are going to school full time, a lot of times
Speaker 1: it does mean that it's then also paired with credit
Speaker 1: card debt, because we still want to live life and
Speaker 1: maybe even maintain a lifestyle that we can't afford. So
Speaker 1: that's it's good to look at that reality. Even if
Speaker 1: you're able to pay it off or you're just floating
Speaker 1: a little bit of a balance, like you're still interact
Speaker 1: ing with debt and utilizing it to maintain a lifestyle. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then the part about this is something I've been
Speaker 1: hearing a lot from people with student loan debt, is
Speaker 1: the increase on it, like they've stopped going to school,
Speaker 1: but the interest is accruing, and you know, you might
Speaker 1: have graduated with like, like you said, fifty dollars of debt,
Speaker 1: but then by not taking it super seriously, it balloon
Speaker 1: to fifty four. And that is like stab in the
Speaker 1: heart to realize that reality. Yeah, I mean, so it
Speaker 1: was I And I don't think I think debt is neutral.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's good debt or bad debt. I
Speaker 1: think it is all in how you use it. And
Speaker 1: because I had a car loan that I had to
Speaker 1: pay and the Federal Student Loan Agency allowed me to
Speaker 1: pay less than interest every month on my student loan,
Speaker 1: it didn't force me to focus on my student loan,
Speaker 1: even though it was higher interest than my car loan.
Speaker 1: So having that extra debt prevented me from paying off
Speaker 1: my student loans. So it does have to do with like,
Speaker 1: if you're in debt one place, it kind of can
Speaker 1: snowball to debt other places, and then that just like
Speaker 1: compounds on itself to make it harder to pay off
Speaker 1: the first debt, like kind of essentially robbing Peter to
Speaker 1: pay Paul almost but in debt. So Travis knew exactly
Speaker 1: how much your husband how much debt he had, and
Speaker 1: was very convinced he wanted to pay it off quickly.
Speaker 1: You weren't as convinced. So what was that moment when
Speaker 1: you realized, Oh, here's how much we have and I
Speaker 1: want it gone. This is a pretty pivotal moment because
Speaker 1: I had always said, like, oh, when I get married,
Speaker 1: then I'll pay off my debt because I really can't
Speaker 1: do it on my own income, which is my own
Speaker 1: limiting belief for sure. And I look back now and
Speaker 1: I see I was never more positioned then I am
Speaker 1: now to pay off debt. So I was waiting, and
Speaker 1: then the time came when we were engaged and Travis
Speaker 1: said he wanted to pay off his debt, and I
Speaker 1: was like, actually, I'd like to live a little bit,
Speaker 1: Like I've been on the edge of paycheck to paycheck
Speaker 1: for so long. I'd really like to enjoy this new
Speaker 1: income and not live under a rock. Is literally how
Speaker 1: I put it. I could see you saying that it's
Speaker 1: either I pay off debt or I live under I
Speaker 1: am living extremes. I am definitely the person who lives
Speaker 1: in extremes for better for worse. It's my own like
Speaker 1: thing that I deal with. But yeah, like I didn't
Speaker 1: have the concept of the radical middle there, like that
Speaker 1: you could pay off debt and still have the things
Speaker 1: E value. That never occurred to me. So what Travis
Speaker 1: did was he and he didn't even know he was
Speaker 1: doing this, I guess, but he just like he tried
Speaker 1: to get to like my deeper Yes, like what is
Speaker 1: it that makes other things easier to say no to because, uh,
Speaker 1: the yes is deeper. And for me, it was foster care.
Speaker 1: So like I have been I've had a heart for
Speaker 1: foster care for over a decade now, I guess it
Speaker 1: was definitely before I met Travis, I was working in
Speaker 1: a group home, and because I didn't want to volunteer
Speaker 1: at a group foster home, because I wanted more responsibility
Speaker 1: and more access to the lives of um kids in care. Uh. So,
Speaker 1: like I just decided to work there on the weekends. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so that that took up every weekend of my life,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to I knew that that wasn't sustainable,
Speaker 1: but I wasn't ready to foster myself. So I really
Speaker 1: want to be able to do that. But with that
Speaker 1: comes a lot of responsibility, like a lot of visits
Speaker 1: and doctor's appointments and kids acting out in trauma and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. And so I knew having a full
Speaker 1: time job and being beholden to debt payments would make
Speaker 1: being accessible more difficult. And so he opened my eyes
Speaker 1: to how much easier could it be for you to
Speaker 1: fulfill your dream in life if we were debt free.
Speaker 1: So that was my deeper yes and obviously it didn't
Speaker 1: work are of the time, but it was the catalyst
Speaker 1: that I needed to change my perspective on debt. And
Speaker 1: I've since learned that you don't have to like put
Speaker 1: your life on pause to pay off debt. You can
Speaker 1: do it and do it, you know, in a balanced way.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that was really the moment. And I knew
Speaker 1: my number already gave me anxiety, like gave me an
Speaker 1: insane anxiety to look at my debt number, so I
Speaker 1: knew how much it was hanging over my head. Tried
Speaker 1: to ignore it. But when Travis really inspired me to
Speaker 1: look at our entire lives and he made it about
Speaker 1: my dreams, not just his, that was when I got
Speaker 1: on board. M isn't that It's so true for so
Speaker 1: many of us, though, This need to have it connected
Speaker 1: to something, and it can't just be arbitrary. You know.
Speaker 1: You hear some people who say, Okay, there's this number,
Speaker 1: and it was overwhelming, so I knew I had to
Speaker 1: do something about it. But oftentimes that's not enough. Just
Speaker 1: seeing a really big number on a piece of paper
Speaker 1: or on your computer isn't always enough to say, let
Speaker 1: me make drastic changes in my lifestyle to get this gone. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's anxiety producing. You knew your number, you knew it
Speaker 1: was a lot, but it still took more to connect
Speaker 1: it to that thing, to tether it to something, to
Speaker 1: anchor it to something for an actual reason, not just
Speaker 1: because I just don't want to see this number on
Speaker 1: this computer screen anymore. And so you said it's a
Speaker 1: it's a big number, seventy eight thousand dollars of debt.
Speaker 1: And now we've heard so many people's stories of six figures,
Speaker 1: nearly half a million, like it's you know, it's not
Speaker 1: a race to the bottom. Everybody has their own story.
Speaker 1: But that is a lot. Most people would not be
Speaker 1: able to pay that off in a matter of months
Speaker 1: or even a year or a few years. How did
Speaker 1: you stay on track? How did you stay motivated to
Speaker 1: get this large sum of money tackled? So we didn't
Speaker 1: have big incomes we um by the end of it,
Speaker 1: we were making up to eighty eight thousand dollars gross,
Speaker 1: but we did. We started. I was making maybe thirty
Speaker 1: five at my acupuncture job, and the I guess the
Speaker 1: Foster home was maybe bringing in eight or ten extra
Speaker 1: a year, So like forty five in a good year
Speaker 1: is what I was making gross and Travis was unemployed
Speaker 1: when we started, So we literally started our debt free
Speaker 1: journey UM thousand dollars, which is less, I mean, gosh,
Speaker 1: almost half of what our total debt was. Like it
Speaker 1: on paper, it looked like stupid, but we worked on
Speaker 1: it together and so I can confidently say, like everyone said,
Speaker 1: everyone says, the budget is what does it for them,
Speaker 1: And it wasn't the budget for me. I have never
Speaker 1: been a great budget or I still don't budget often.
Speaker 1: For me. It was about the accountability, having the accountability
Speaker 1: between Travis and I and wanting to do this for
Speaker 1: him and him wanting to do it for me made
Speaker 1: this journey sustainable. And and that's exactly why we've created
Speaker 1: our our community, our private community, is to give people
Speaker 1: a place to do that, because that's really what did
Speaker 1: it for me. And when we had that, then we
Speaker 1: were more motivated to create the budget, to stick to
Speaker 1: the budget, to have the budget meetings, and we were
Speaker 1: motivated to have open communication about our expenses without judgment,
Speaker 1: with grace, all of these things, and it it came
Speaker 1: down to having a community, and not just in my home,
Speaker 1: but outside of my home too. Because I realized a
Speaker 1: lot of my friends just wanted to spend money. They
Speaker 1: were not trying to get their finances together like we were.
Speaker 1: And I had to find new friends for a season,
Speaker 1: which thankfully became lifelong friends. But and I'm still friends
Speaker 1: with some of the people. I had to kind of
Speaker 1: unfollow or mute on social media for a few years.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I had to kind of I had to
Speaker 1: shift the community outside of my home too, to be
Speaker 1: one where people were more conscious about their money and okay,
Speaker 1: doing free things. And so it was really the people
Speaker 1: around me that had a huge impact um in my
Speaker 1: motivation to stick with it. And then the second thing,
Speaker 1: the second thing that was most important. A year into
Speaker 1: our debt payoff, we were making good progress. We had
Speaker 1: went down from thinking it was going to take us
Speaker 1: five years to knowing that we were going to do
Speaker 1: it into and we were a year and we knew
Speaker 1: we had a year left, and I was miserable, Like
Speaker 1: I was, I was miserable, I was hopeless. I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know how I'm going to do this for
Speaker 1: another year. And I know now that some of that
Speaker 1: could have been avoided by having a a more focused
Speaker 1: life plan. I think and um kind of a little
Speaker 1: bit more of a balance between the goal and the life,
Speaker 1: the immediate goal in the long term goal. But I
Speaker 1: started writing about what I was learning, what I had
Speaker 1: learned for the past year. I started teaching, trying to
Speaker 1: teach other people the lessons that I had learned in
Speaker 1: a difficult way, and that shifted the journey for me.
Speaker 1: When I stopped dwelling on what the journey was taking
Speaker 1: from me and started focusing on how I could give
Speaker 1: back as a result of this journey, everything changed and
Speaker 1: the last year was like non existent to me, Like
Speaker 1: I didn't even realize it was happening. I was just
Speaker 1: doing it and then we were done. So those were
Speaker 1: the two biggest motivators for me. Yeah, it's so interesting.
Speaker 1: It's almost as if you're describing in order to get
Speaker 1: you motivated to begin, you needed a deeper y and purpose,
Speaker 1: and in order for the motivation to keep going, you
Speaker 1: needed another why and purpose attached to it. Again, I
Speaker 1: think that's really similar for a lot of people. But
Speaker 1: something that stands out to me about you. One of
Speaker 1: the things I really admire and I think drew me
Speaker 1: to you when we first met. I met you in
Speaker 1: the midst of your debt payoff journey towards the tail end.
Speaker 1: Is your authenticity and transparency in this process, not without
Speaker 1: protection you're not sharing anything that's that you don't want
Speaker 1: to be sharing, but even to be able to talk
Speaker 1: about your salaries, what you did make, what you then
Speaker 1: were making by the end of it, and how you
Speaker 1: journeyed through this, some of the ways that you would
Speaker 1: have done your debt payoff journey in a more balanced way.
Speaker 1: I think all of this it's so relatable. I think
Speaker 1: sometimes we can talk really cryptically about our debt payoff
Speaker 1: journeys and we don't really know what's available to us
Speaker 1: because it always seems like everybody else's story is there's
Speaker 1: something unique about it, and so I couldn't do it.
Speaker 1: But like, your story is very I would imagine there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people in debt who are in better
Speaker 1: off positions than you were in right, who are making
Speaker 1: more money and maybe have less debt. Like, there's so
Speaker 1: many things about what you're described ban that's so relatable
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, and I just so appreciate
Speaker 1: you talking through also what was really difficult, but then
Speaker 1: some really tangible tips in that that when it is difficult,
Speaker 1: go deeper, connect to deeper reasons of why is this?
Speaker 1: Why is this so heavy on me? Why do I
Speaker 1: feel like I can't bear another year? What could shift here?
Speaker 1: And because there is freedom and permission to shift it?
Speaker 1: And your debt payoff journey did take a toll on you.
Speaker 1: I mean to start out with forty five, making forty
Speaker 1: dollars in a good year and paying off seventy eight
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in two years, Like I am a little
Speaker 1: bit like, how the heck did that happen? And maybe
Speaker 1: you could have taken a little bit longer to do
Speaker 1: that and not have gotten shingles. Oh yeah, the shingles story.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, And we bought a house in those two years,
Speaker 1: So there were there were a lot of we could
Speaker 1: have taken in a little extra time. For sure, I
Speaker 1: think we glamorize and I did. I glamorized these stories
Speaker 1: of I paid off this much debt in this time frame.
Speaker 1: It's so much, it's so fast, and we hear the
Speaker 1: same stories. There are ratios to a certain limit of
Speaker 1: if you make above this amount, you will pay off
Speaker 1: your debt in this many to this many months. You
Speaker 1: can almost calculate it and I never have. But to
Speaker 1: me now, numbers and time frames are arbitrary because I've
Speaker 1: heard so many of them so many different times. What
Speaker 1: interests me is the story of the journey, Like how
Speaker 1: is the journey unique? And there are so many things
Speaker 1: that are the same, and we do talk about those
Speaker 1: on the podcast. You know, get on a meal plan,
Speaker 1: make a budget, increase your income. There are so many
Speaker 1: things that are the same. But like looking for those
Speaker 1: unique things and I think that so what Like I
Speaker 1: left acupuncture and started writing full time and finance and
Speaker 1: I was an s c O writer, which means I
Speaker 1: was literally just like writing outlines that were very educational
Speaker 1: and writing those right, really informational articles to this website
Speaker 1: that really wanted me to be a journalist, a financial journalist,
Speaker 1: and I learned. I learned storytelling, like and it was
Speaker 1: it was really great because I heard so many stories,
Speaker 1: I heard so many people say the same thing, and
Speaker 1: to hear the thing like the one thing that made
Speaker 1: it different, um was always so refreshing and the thing
Speaker 1: I tried to hold onto. And that's why I want
Speaker 1: to share so many of the unique things about my
Speaker 1: story so that more people can see different sides of
Speaker 1: paying off debt, so more people can see themselves paying
Speaker 1: off debt through these stories, and it's why we try
Speaker 1: to tell unique stories here on the show from unique
Speaker 1: and diverse perspectives. I think the thing that's standing out
Speaker 1: to me in your story is how you found joy
Speaker 1: and purpose through it to help you keep going. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then and then the learnings of what you would
Speaker 1: have done differently, how you might have given yourself more
Speaker 1: permission to way out living life alongside paying down debt
Speaker 1: that maybe it could have taken a little bit longer.
Speaker 1: But I am also curious to hear what your thoughts
Speaker 1: are on how your life has shifted since debt payoff. Uh.
Speaker 1: It certainly sounds like a lot shifted in the midst
Speaker 1: of debt payoff. What have you seen since that time?
Speaker 1: I have been able to do like so many more things,
Speaker 1: so much more freely, and re follow those people on
Speaker 1: social media because I can do all the things they're
Speaker 1: doing now, And then they're coming to me talking about
Speaker 1: how much debt they have and the like the burden
Speaker 1: it's putting on them. And I'm like, well, I have
Speaker 1: a podcast, you should listen to it. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I am able to go on vacations which I
Speaker 1: could never do as a child, Like again, no debt,
Speaker 1: so like no vacations at all when I was a kid.
Speaker 1: Like we had our son and didn't worry about if
Speaker 1: there was going to be complications like with the pregnancy
Speaker 1: or with the labor, because we knew, like we can
Speaker 1: handle like medical bills, were prepared for this, and like,
Speaker 1: thank god we didn't. But like that that's a huge
Speaker 1: ease for somebody who's like pregnant and hormonal. There are
Speaker 1: we just I can officially say it. We just bought
Speaker 1: another hot We bought a second home, and so we
Speaker 1: are going instead of buying an investment property, we bought
Speaker 1: another house to live in, and we use our current
Speaker 1: house as an investment property. So these are things I
Speaker 1: would have never known were possible, because my family and
Speaker 1: the families I grew up around, never did this stuff.
Speaker 1: They were like shopping was a hobby and people were
Speaker 1: spending all of their money. And I had a friend
Speaker 1: who in the housing crisis, her family was like living
Speaker 1: on raman essentially because they bought this huge house at
Speaker 1: the height and couldn't get rid of it, and they
Speaker 1: were living in this beautiful house by the beach, like
Speaker 1: living on you know, essentially Ramen. So like these were
Speaker 1: the people I was, I was around. I didn't know
Speaker 1: it was possible for somebody without a ton of money
Speaker 1: to like get into rental real estate or to have
Speaker 1: a six figure investment portfolio to take trips just because
Speaker 1: it's a good idea, not because like you're desperate or anything.
Speaker 1: So it's changed my perspective and life. And that's a
Speaker 1: gift that I'm going to give to my son that
Speaker 1: more is possible and you don't have to be super
Speaker 1: rich to achieve it or quote unquote rich, but anything
Speaker 1: is possible. Well, I think it's a gift to the
Speaker 1: larger community too. I mean, yes, absolutely, as you teach
Speaker 1: your son, But it's a gift to me. It's a
Speaker 1: gift to the frugal friends community. It's a gift to
Speaker 1: all the people that you interact with because of your
Speaker 1: transparency and honesty and encouragement of people. I mean, I
Speaker 1: remember I have a vivid memory of watching you and Travis.
Speaker 1: I joined virtually before even the pandemic and all that
Speaker 1: virtual stuff happened. But you you all paid off your debt,
Speaker 1: live on Facebook live and celebrated and it was a
Speaker 1: little weird to me to be so out in the
Speaker 1: open about finances, but yet unashamedly, unapologetically, and there was
Speaker 1: a celebration with you, and there was an encouragement and
Speaker 1: motivation for me of I could do that too, like
Speaker 1: you and your journey has been a gift to me,
Speaker 1: and my journey to understand what's possible, and the things
Speaker 1: that you have built in skill set and understanding through
Speaker 1: the debt payoff journey is what has afforded all of
Speaker 1: these other things, right, it's not just about, oh, I
Speaker 1: paid off debts, so now obviously my life is better.
Speaker 1: It's better because of the journey, because of what you
Speaker 1: learned and gained along the way that you're now able
Speaker 1: to implement on the other side of the pendulum. It's
Speaker 1: great to get out of debt, and then you just
Speaker 1: translate all that over into the next step. What do
Speaker 1: you want to do next with your finances, which for
Speaker 1: you it's income, property trips, sharing and encouraging others, raising
Speaker 1: your son well, not living in fear and anxiety for
Speaker 1: financial concern. It's like there's so much here and and
Speaker 1: the way that you're choosing to give back out of
Speaker 1: that and along the way, not just oh I've arrived,
Speaker 1: so now let me tell you about it, like you've
Speaker 1: been honest throughout the whole thing of this was really tough. Yep,
Speaker 1: still in the middle of that, and it's it's real.
Speaker 1: It's what drew me to you. I think it's one
Speaker 1: of the reasons that our podcast is where our podcast is.
Speaker 1: So you keep doing a gem Yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 1: think I've just written so many articles that are so
Speaker 1: surface level and so like I've written the same article
Speaker 1: so many times to be able to tell a story
Speaker 1: that's unique and relatable. And I mean when we started
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends, it's like when we decided to like take
Speaker 1: a chance on it, which neither of us was like
Speaker 1: super keen on, but I said, if I'm gonna do this,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna make it so different from everything
Speaker 1: else that's out there that is pretty much investing centric.
Speaker 1: It's for people who already have a handle on their finances.
Speaker 1: It's for people who have already paid off debt or
Speaker 1: don't care about paying off debt. I want something so different,
Speaker 1: and we created something that helps people. Yeah, no matter
Speaker 1: where you are, but like, definitely of average income, dream
Speaker 1: bigger and have bigger financial goals because that's I think
Speaker 1: more important than trying to pay off debt is to
Speaker 1: like expand your thinking of what's possible. Because I had
Speaker 1: to pay off my debt to get there, but the
Speaker 1: greatest gift, like I could still have debt, and now
Speaker 1: that we have this new investment property, I definitely do.
Speaker 1: But like knowing what is possible, knowing assets, liabilities like
Speaker 1: unlimited income, stuff like that, like building a business US.
Speaker 1: It's it's stuff that I wouldn't have thought about if
Speaker 1: I hadn't started at the very bottom. And and all
Speaker 1: the podcasts out there were already for the big thinkers.
Speaker 1: But yeah, like we were just talking to um Angie
Speaker 1: and r J from Rich by Intention and how they
Speaker 1: started with their you know, negotiating bills, like just negotiating
Speaker 1: bills to lower their expenses. They took those skills and
Speaker 1: negotiated raises and new jobs promotions. But they wouldn't have
Speaker 1: even thought about it or had the skills to do
Speaker 1: it without starting like quote unquote at the bottom, And
Speaker 1: like that's where I want to be for people at
Speaker 1: the bottom. Yeah, yeah, started from the bottom. Now we're
Speaker 1: still here speaking of things that are not at the bottom.
Speaker 1: They all the way on the top is the we.
Speaker 1: That's right, it's time for the best minute of your
Speaker 1: entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name
Speaker 1: is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage. Maybe your
Speaker 1: car died, and you're happy to not have to pay
Speaker 1: that bill anymore. Tough bills, Buffalo bills, Bill Clinton, this
Speaker 1: is the bill of the week, So I will share
Speaker 1: my bill of the week. But since this is like
Speaker 1: a duo episode, I do want to share somebody else's too,
Speaker 1: So I guess I will go first and no one
Speaker 1: will be surprised by my bill. Jill could tell you
Speaker 1: my bill. Oh my gosh, it's Bill Curtis from Wait, Wait,
Speaker 1: Don't tell Me, and the narrator of Anchorman and famed
Speaker 1: newscaster in Chicago Anchorman in Chicago. I think, yeah, that
Speaker 1: is my bill of the week always, because I my
Speaker 1: dream is to one day have Bill Curtis do my
Speaker 1: voicemail message. I'm just I'm always too nervous to call
Speaker 1: into Wait Wait, don't tell me, but I do listen
Speaker 1: to it all the time. I love his bill puns
Speaker 1: Anchorman is one of my favorite movies still to this day,
Speaker 1: like I'm still stuck in like I'm a college frat boy.
Speaker 1: I guess yeah. So that is forever and always my
Speaker 1: bill of the week. So let's hear from somebody else's Hi,
Speaker 1: fe gool friends. This is Becca. I'm from Rogers, Arkansas,
Speaker 1: and I just always give you my the is the week.
Speaker 1: So this month was actually supposed to be a no
Speaker 1: s bit challenge for my fiance and I and we
Speaker 1: were doing really good until our sweet dog group Is
Speaker 1: decided to eat rocks the other day, so we took
Speaker 1: him to the vet and it ended up being an
Speaker 1: incredibly expensive fifty bill, but we are grateful that as
Speaker 1: that was able to help him and he passed all
Speaker 1: of the rocks. So unfortunately we hadn't been to our
Speaker 1: savings a little bit rather than increasing our savings this month,
Speaker 1: but we are so grateful that Rufus is okay and
Speaker 1: I'm happy to pay this bill. I love you guys,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for all of your advice and
Speaker 1: just fun times on the podcast. Thanks a good oh wow, Becca,
Speaker 1: and thanks congratulations Rufus like eating rocks and yeah you Rufus,
Speaker 1: you went through something, and this one's for you too,
Speaker 1: y Oh. I love hearing the stories of unexpected large
Speaker 1: bills that are able to be paid and not stressed
Speaker 1: about because of the intentionality with finances. Well done, that
Speaker 1: you could sustain your rock eating dog groups is weird addiction.
Speaker 1: And thanks for all the love. We're we're happy for
Speaker 1: the fun times here too, and celebrating with you that
Speaker 1: Rufus is still with us. Hopefully he doesn't have a
Speaker 1: taste for non edible things anymore. And well done with
Speaker 1: your finances. If you all listening, want to submit your
Speaker 1: bill of the week, if you've got a pet that
Speaker 1: enjoys eating things that shouldn't be eaten, or you have
Speaker 1: you know someone named Bill in your life who is
Speaker 1: really just crushing it in some way or something related
Speaker 1: to finances. Because Jill doesn't believe that anybody feels the
Speaker 1: same way for him that I do. Maybe you're just abshist,
Speaker 1: you know, nobody else says that because you're the Frugal
Speaker 1: Friends podcast dot com slash Bill. Leave us here, Bill,
Speaker 1: We're moving on. It's time for round the lightning round,
Speaker 1: all right. We will both answer this just like a
Speaker 1: traditional lightning round, but I'll let you ask it since
Speaker 1: you're you're leading the episode today. Oh yes, this is
Speaker 1: Goldie put this question in here for us. It's a
Speaker 1: good one. I don't people don't ask each other this question.
Speaker 1: So here you go. Hot take in this lightning round.
Speaker 1: Is there anything you would be willing to take on
Speaker 1: debt to have or buy? I think you know my
Speaker 1: answer because I have just done it um for a house.
Speaker 1: Because it is an asset, it will be slightly cash flowing.
Speaker 1: So here's the honest truth. You're never gonna hear me
Speaker 1: on bigger pockets. I'm not. I'm not the person like
Speaker 1: it's not me. Real estate investing not for me. Tried it,
Speaker 1: did it, didn't enjoy it. So that's my hot take,
Speaker 1: and I'm you know, it's I know people who love it,
Speaker 1: and I tried it once and I was like, Nope,
Speaker 1: not for me. But we did buy a second property
Speaker 1: because originally we wanted to get a place for my
Speaker 1: mom because she rents, and we wanted to just get
Speaker 1: something that she could live in and pay us rent
Speaker 1: and we could control her rent. But that didn't happen
Speaker 1: because prices in our area are so unreasonably high that
Speaker 1: we literally couldn't find anything that she could live in
Speaker 1: and we could afford to have her live in it.
Speaker 1: So but we did get a house um and we
Speaker 1: will rent out our current home and we will Our
Speaker 1: hope is to either eliminate our mortgage altogether, so not
Speaker 1: make any profit. Just either eliminate the mortgage or just
Speaker 1: cover the two mortgage payments, and we'll use it for
Speaker 1: the tax benefits annually and in twenty years or something
Speaker 1: when we sell something, use the appreciation because the appreciation
Speaker 1: in St. Petersburg is higher than average stock market returns.
Speaker 1: So it was a wise financial decision. It was not
Speaker 1: the ideal real estate you know, thing you look for,
Speaker 1: but our our market is weird, and we did it,
Speaker 1: and I'm not here for it again. So yeah, there
Speaker 1: you go. I you learned through it for sure, and
Speaker 1: this will benefit you all in many ways the owning
Speaker 1: of these two places. I'm excited for you. This is
Speaker 1: a big celebration. Really, you just signed yesterday. I know,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to to. I know. I don't
Speaker 1: want to deter anyone from investing in real estate because
Speaker 1: I think it is a super viable way to diversify
Speaker 1: your income and has a lot of income and investment
Speaker 1: and tax benefits. It really does, but it is really
Speaker 1: something like it is a process, and try it once.
Speaker 1: You don't have to love it, but you don't know
Speaker 1: until you try. I didn't know that. I didn't love
Speaker 1: it until I tried, and I don't regret it yet,
Speaker 1: but I don't want to. I would never steer anyone
Speaker 1: away from renting, or from rental real estate or anything.
Speaker 1: So I think even if we continue to do real estate,
Speaker 1: we would consider doing like syndications, which is like way
Speaker 1: higher level. So yeah, that caveat. How about you, Jill, Well,
Speaker 1: I know that you love being super vulnerable on this
Speaker 1: lightning round, so so I'm going to do that for you. Jen,
Speaker 1: I think you know the obvious answer is likewise housing.
Speaker 1: Most of us have a mortgage. It's a decent aim
Speaker 1: to pay off your mortgage early, but I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't mind having that. It's an asset. I have to
Speaker 1: live somewhere, pay less on my mortgage than I wouldn't rent.
Speaker 1: So yes, that that's obvious. Something else and I will
Speaker 1: So I'll process this out loud with you. Feel free
Speaker 1: to give me your feedback and I'll be a little
Speaker 1: bit vulnerable here. We have been cash flowing renovations on
Speaker 1: our current house, which has been awesome. It's one of
Speaker 1: the things that our debt payoff has opened up the
Speaker 1: door for us to do. I'm beginning to realize, however,
Speaker 1: that cash flowing things is only so good in a
Speaker 1: time limited way, similar with with debt. Like as you say,
Speaker 1: debt is neutral, we could use it in a way
Speaker 1: that is beneficial. And so something that Eric and I
Speaker 1: have just started to begun thinking about is Okay, we
Speaker 1: wanted to cash flow renovations, get them out of, get
Speaker 1: them done, and then just live in our home and
Speaker 1: go hard at savings and investing and all of that. Well,
Speaker 1: now we are nearly two years into being in our
Speaker 1: home having cash flow renovations, and it's causing me pause
Speaker 1: to say, cash flowing is awesome, but when does that stop? Like,
Speaker 1: when does it stop when you're just going hard at Yes,
Speaker 1: I don't have debt, but am I still making a
Speaker 1: wise financial decision with the money that I have to
Speaker 1: keep throwing large chunks of money at these massive renovations.
Speaker 1: And so it's making both of us consider would it
Speaker 1: be more beneficial for us to take a small loan
Speaker 1: with a low interest rate and invest the money that
Speaker 1: we're now spending on all of these other areas so
Speaker 1: that we're not continually pushing off. We we don't make
Speaker 1: a ton of money, right and so we're going to
Speaker 1: do best in retirement if we start early in putting
Speaker 1: money towards retirement. And we are doing that, but we
Speaker 1: are doing it in really small ways wall cash flowing renovations,
Speaker 1: because again we're not independently wealthy. But it's starting to
Speaker 1: make me think is it worth considering. I've not done
Speaker 1: it yet, and I'm not saying that I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't know what that decision will be. But to this
Speaker 1: question like would you consider it, sometimes I do wonder
Speaker 1: would it be better to take out a low interest
Speaker 1: loan to be able to put money into investments, because
Speaker 1: I don't think it's wise to cash flow large sums
Speaker 1: of money for years, and so that's that's where my
Speaker 1: mind's at. Yeah, so there are few things to consider
Speaker 1: in that. Definitely would never advise taking out a low
Speaker 1: interest loan to invest that money in the stock market,
Speaker 1: which is we if it was just going into your
Speaker 1: house would kind of be what that is. It would
Speaker 1: just have, it would go through like an intermediary first,
Speaker 1: because I'm coming at this from the perspective that your
Speaker 1: primary home is not an investment, it's an asset. It's growing,
Speaker 1: but you will always need someplace to live. So your
Speaker 1: primary home where you live is not an investment unless
Speaker 1: it cash flows. And what you're trying to do part
Speaker 1: of your renovation is an airbnb that will cash flow.
Speaker 1: So if you can do the math and figure out
Speaker 1: how much you'd be paying in interest every month on
Speaker 1: this small loan compared to what you could be making
Speaker 1: monthly on the airbnb and the number and there's profit
Speaker 1: in the airbnb versus the cost of the loan, then
Speaker 1: it does make financial It makes numerical sense to finish
Speaker 1: up the renovations with a loan, as you know, obviously
Speaker 1: as low the interest you can get so that you
Speaker 1: can start cash flowing the air airbnb, because that numerically
Speaker 1: makes more sense. If you were just wanting to get
Speaker 1: finished with renovations and there was no cash flow component
Speaker 1: to it, and you're like, how should I cash flow
Speaker 1: renovations and invest, it would be a slowing down of
Speaker 1: renovations to balance with investing. That would be the solution,
Speaker 1: and so your situation is unique to a lot of homeowners,
Speaker 1: but it would just be doing the math on that
Speaker 1: on what the loan is going to cost you versus
Speaker 1: what you're going to make from the airbnb, and if
Speaker 1: it's more, then the loan makes numerical sense. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Thanks j absolutely well, Yeah, this was great and thanks
Speaker 1: so much for listening to my story, y'all. I please
Speaker 1: tune back in next week to hear Jill's story. Very
Speaker 1: excited to record that one. And in celebration of our
Speaker 1: summit June Adult Summer Camp, we want to share some
Speaker 1: of the comments you guys made about our event, like
Speaker 1: this one from Mariella. She says, thanks, the summit was
Speaker 1: so well organized with an amazing lineup of speakers. Thank
Speaker 1: you once more for everything you ladies do for this
Speaker 1: community of frugal friends. Yes, it's a free summit. There's
Speaker 1: literally no reason not to come. Yes, thanks so much,
Speaker 1: mary Ella. So thanks for listening again. If you want
Speaker 1: your free ticket to this year's summit June, head to
Speaker 1: Frugal Living Summit dot com. Don't forget to check out
Speaker 1: the Spending Mastery bundle while you're there. It's jam packed
Speaker 1: with so much awesomeness and we can't wait to see
Speaker 1: you guys there yeay see you next week By You
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirian