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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Ricky Lee Jones hit it big with her debut

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Speaker 1: album in seventy nine. The following year, she won the

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Speaker 1: Grammy Award for Best New Artist, and over the course

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Speaker 1: of the next four decades, released numerous albums that pulled

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Speaker 1: inspiration from jazz, rock, electronic music, and even musical theater.

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Speaker 1: In late April, Ricky released her latest album, Pieces of Treasure,

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Speaker 1: where she sings songs in the American songbook with a

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Speaker 1: jazz slant producer and legendary an arman. Russ Titelman, who

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Speaker 1: produced Ricky's first two albums, reunited with her on her

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Speaker 1: latest and helped inspire Ricky to find a comfort in

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Speaker 1: her lower vocal register. The result is an oftentimes sultry

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Speaker 1: meditation on aging and survival. On today's episode, Bruce HEADLM

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Speaker 1: talks to Ricky Ley Jones about her decades long fight

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Speaker 1: to sing jazz, even though she's often viewed as an outsider.

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Speaker 1: She also tells stories about leaving home as a young

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Speaker 1: teenager and the abuse she endured while trying to survive

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Speaker 1: on her own. She played songs from her career, including

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Speaker 1: one she wrote after seeing John Lennon appear to her

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Speaker 1: in a dream, and just a note before we get started.

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Speaker 1: This episode contains descriptions of sexual abuse and might not

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Speaker 1: be appropriate for all listeners. This is broken record liner

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Speaker 1: notes for the digital age. I'm justin Ritchman. Here's Bruce

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Speaker 1: Hedlam with Ricky Lee Jones.

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Speaker 2: I've always thought of you as someone who and I

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Speaker 2: thought of this particularly on the new record. You're someone

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Speaker 2: who is acting in the song in a strength. Did

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Speaker 2: you always think of yourself as that one?

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Speaker 3: I've just found the words to say that. But I've

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Speaker 3: always put the song on and been inside of it,

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Speaker 3: and I know everything about everybody in it. So if

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Speaker 3: I sing something cool, I know where she's sitting, what

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Speaker 3: she's wearing, where she bought it, everybody at the bar.

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Speaker 3: I see it all. And I think that's what an

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Speaker 3: actor does. They try to create everything about their character.

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Speaker 3: But it happens to me instantaneously. I have a rich imagination,

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Speaker 3: I guess, and when I sing, the tree instantly grows.

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Speaker 3: And I started thinking this year, I'm acting songs, and

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Speaker 3: there's a little difference between singing a song and acting.

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Speaker 3: Being a song actor, it suggests i'mhow that I'm not

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Speaker 3: a real singer, which of course I am. A serious singer,

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Speaker 3: but I think I'm acting, I'm being the song.

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Speaker 2: It's closer to singers from previous generations. We're like that,

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Speaker 2: like Peggy Lee or Julie London. Yes, people like that

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Speaker 2: seem to kind of inhabit songs become the characters and songs.

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Speaker 2: They were singers, not primarily songwriters, although Peggy Lee did

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Speaker 2: write some songs. But you you write them, so people think, oh,

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Speaker 2: they must be confessions. They're yeah, pouring your soul out. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and you don't really pour your soul out.

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Speaker 3: I like to write stories, and in this story might

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Speaker 3: be some poignant, unresolved tear drop or something. That's the

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Speaker 3: best way to show it in this way, as any

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Speaker 3: writer does, you know, put their own emotion because that's

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Speaker 3: the only palette we have right into what they write.

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Speaker 3: And that thing again of the singer songwriter versus the

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Speaker 3: singer how people see them, because after Bob Dylan and

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Speaker 3: Joni Mitchell, it became crucial to be a songwriter. If

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Speaker 3: you weren't a songwriter, then you're not really authentic. If

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Speaker 3: you didn't write that song, then why even singing it?

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Speaker 3: Kind of aut itude, which I of course disagree with.

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Speaker 3: To me, the interpreter, the singer, the bard is who matters. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 3: I'm glad you wrote the song. But if there's no

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Speaker 3: one to sing it, what does it matter? So Peggy

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Speaker 3: Lee or me or anybody who loves a song and

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Speaker 3: loves to sing and loves hear other people, you know,

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Speaker 3: whether it's a choir or whatever, loves singing. That's what

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Speaker 3: I like most. When I had the ear of the

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Speaker 3: press the way I did in the early eighties, I

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Speaker 3: talk about Linda Ronstaff, for instance, who was not as

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Speaker 3: in style now for a minute, because she wasn't punk

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Speaker 3: rock and she didn't write songs. But I was like, bet,

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Speaker 3: she's a great singer. And whatever comes into fashion, and

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Speaker 3: I'm glad new things come into fashion. But you can't

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Speaker 3: discard the meaning of a singer, I think.

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Speaker 2: Because when you came out, you don't sound like Joni Mitchell,

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Speaker 2: but you looked a bit like Jomie Mitchell, so much

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Speaker 2: like her, so everybody's, oh, she's influenced by Joni Mitchell.

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Speaker 2: And then I'm reading your book and it's like Jimmy Hendrix.

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Speaker 2: It's West Side Story, which is a big thing for you. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and there's a very I won't give it away. There's

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Speaker 2: a very lovely scene with that guy. I'll say his name,

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Speaker 2: Tom Waite's the only time I'm going.

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Speaker 3: To say it.

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Speaker 2: Where you're outside of a bar and someone says a

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Speaker 2: line and someone else yeah, and then you all sing it.

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Speaker 2: He gets the line wrong, I think too. But it's

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Speaker 2: this beautiful scene.

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Speaker 3: Because and it's real, It really happened.

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Speaker 2: And people grew up, you know, back then, like people

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Speaker 2: would have records. They might have the Beatles, but then

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Speaker 2: their parents would have South Pacific or Camelot or something,

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Speaker 2: a sound of everybody had sound of music. Back then.

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Speaker 2: You said you tended towards Laura Nero. What did you

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Speaker 2: get from her? What was it that drew you?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 3: I got that thing of these strange and I still

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Speaker 3: haven't learned her songs. But these kinds of chords, right,

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Speaker 3: and hers are much darker, but and they probably show

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Speaker 3: up passing in Leonard Bernstein. So that's what she had.

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Speaker 3: She had inversions that were magical to me, and I

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Speaker 3: wanted to know them. She also happened to see her

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Speaker 3: on public television at the same time I heard of

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Speaker 3: so to see her is something else entirely. She looked

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Speaker 3: like a terribly mentally ill person who could hardly sit

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Speaker 3: there to perform this song. And as a teenager, I

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Speaker 3: really identified with that part. Felt pretty barely together myself.

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Speaker 3: So I liked that there was somebody there who dared

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Speaker 3: to show herself as she was.

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Speaker 2: And she was also very theatrical, Yes that's a better word.

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Speaker 2: She was creating scenes with her people know, wedding bell Blues,

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Speaker 2: that's one of her big songs, But it creates a

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Speaker 2: big it does.

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Speaker 3: It's like a show number, something like the one about Tomcat.

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Speaker 3: Goodbye is like its own piece of theater from top

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Speaker 3: to bottom. So it's a little bit of Gershwin's, a

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Speaker 3: little bit of organbezz and then a lot of motown soul.

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Speaker 3: And she's made her own kind of music. I'm not

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Speaker 3: gonna say brand, but she's made her own and you know,

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Speaker 3: I think what I love is the sound of her voice.

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Speaker 3: But that that she did that probably was a map

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Speaker 3: for me that I could also make my own room

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Speaker 3: of my own imaginary people.

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Speaker 2: What do you think are your songs that do that

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Speaker 2: the best? What rooms do you go? I got that one?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the things from Pirates, I would say, And.

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Speaker 5: He's got walk crazy act turns him into a car.

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Speaker 3: Two and pretty girls go by. Nothing here to do anymore,

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Speaker 3: so he sits on the stoop all day.

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Speaker 4: I does something is waiting for Countfinger. Louis picks up

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Speaker 4: Eddy in the alley.

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Speaker 3: He likes to come here with them buzz from that town.

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Speaker 3: Everybody there looks like Frankie Valley and they're fluently blonde

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Speaker 3: from her leg to a cigarette. And Louis told Eddie

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Speaker 3: fix him up, but he ain't come back in now

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Speaker 3: this rhyme Frankie Valley. I was originally trying to rhyme

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Speaker 3: Eddie Briggotti because Eddie Briggotty is from the Young Rascals,

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Speaker 3: and I loved the Young Rascals and especially you know

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Speaker 3: his How can I be sure there's not? And I

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Speaker 3: like the idea that nobody's written about Eddie Briggotty, but

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Speaker 3: I couldn't find anything to rhyme with Gotti. More people

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Speaker 3: would know who Frankie Valley was. It's a very one

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Speaker 3: of my funny lines. I have a few funny lines,

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Speaker 3: but I always feel like it goes right by people.

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Speaker 3: They're they're enchanted by the service. Start, what are you

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Speaker 3: talking about? Now? Where everybody looks like Frankie Valley.

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Speaker 4: And then.

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Speaker 3: More trouble than it's worth?

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Speaker 4: What trouble in his word? Oh wold to tell him where.

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Speaker 6: You Oh wowld So that's one I think, tell him.

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Speaker 4: Where you are?

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Speaker 3: And then that one goes there, and there's another verse

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Speaker 3: about the girl.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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Speaker 3: So those are the two boys Eddie and and oh

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Speaker 3: and so those characters were inspired by my friend Salbernardi's

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Speaker 3: childhood friends in Lodi, New Jersey. He had this one guy,

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Speaker 3: so he had count fingered Louis. But the other one

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Speaker 3: was the guy was one crazy all right that when

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Speaker 3: he got nervous, it started spitting all around. So I

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Speaker 3: brought his characters in. And then so zero quits cool.

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Speaker 3: She lost her job again and her boyfriend beat her

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Speaker 3: up and he won't let her in. She's walking by

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Speaker 3: this joint in her black and blue dress.

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Speaker 8: She looks a little welbones out of you, says, don't

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Speaker 8: tell me, Leving guess.

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Speaker 7: It's more trouble in his word, she's moore trouble in

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Speaker 7: his word.

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Speaker 4: Oh why? And then.

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Speaker 9: Fast and west this way.

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Speaker 8: When you've got all these ideas, you'd never to.

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Speaker 4: Any one.

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Speaker 8: There are these magnet's pulling j left, living every story.

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Speaker 4: Only once.

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Speaker 3: So in that part, remember when you're in a movie

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Speaker 3: and the newspapers go by and they're spinning by it.

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Speaker 3: This is the exciting time.

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Speaker 10: That's what that was.

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Speaker 6: Up.

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Speaker 8: Hey, yeah, we'll liveving it.

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Speaker 9: Up, welling up, we'll.

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Speaker 4: It up, well.

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Speaker 5: Up, ye will livevyvinge up.

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Speaker 9: Welving it up? Yeah, well, liveving it up? Yeah, well,

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Speaker 9: living up.

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Speaker 3: Up. And then I think it was probably really inspired

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Speaker 3: by my friendship with Lunetti found nor reason.

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Speaker 4: Then in there carried her over the bridges.

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Speaker 3: And fluttering pages. They didn't care, this terminal where dreams

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Speaker 3: led so many tickets through and strange looking faces, and

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Speaker 3: see somebody there.

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Speaker 4: They knew.

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Speaker 11: You could meet me tomorrow when all of the lights

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Speaker 11: aide blooming. Feel a little lonely, a little sad, a

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Speaker 11: little mean, But remember this place, Sada's Hotel.

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Speaker 3: You could do anything you want.

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Speaker 4: You could never tell.

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Speaker 11: It's not trouble in its word, but trouble than its word.

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Speaker 4: Whoa wow, I won't you tell me where you are?

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Speaker 3: That? Yeah, so I'd say more than any song I've written.

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Speaker 3: That song answers hers right, or a song about her

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Speaker 3: characters living in the darker part of the city. This

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Speaker 3: one sets them free to go somewhere else. Always I

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Speaker 3: don't always, but for a long time I've felt it's

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Speaker 3: a conversation we have when we're lucky enough to be

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Speaker 3: writers of songs that people here and sing. We're all

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Speaker 3: talking to one another and responding to one another. It's

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Speaker 3: just a lie to pretend that you live in a

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Speaker 3: vacuum and everything comes out of your own head. And

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Speaker 3: if you're not being honest about it, then your thief

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Speaker 3: and and you're stealing stuff. So we must learn from

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Speaker 3: one another, and it has to be okay to say

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Speaker 3: learning from somebody else. And then I made up my

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Speaker 3: own thing. Yeah, I think so.

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Speaker 2: You know, one of the things about that song you

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Speaker 2: just played, you're constantly changing tempos. You know, you've stopped

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Speaker 2: the whole band in the middle, and then it starts

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Speaker 2: back up again. Where does that come from? Is that

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Speaker 2: from musicals as well?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Maybe so. I've always liked things that changed directions

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Speaker 3: and changed and they did it in the pop stuff

220
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Speaker 3: for a while, right, Crosby stills a nish. It was exciting,

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Speaker 3: but probably musical theater does it first?

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Speaker 2: Can you tell me about Away from the sky that.

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Speaker 3: Was inspired by the death of John Lennon. I dream

224
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Speaker 3: I had about John Lennon. I feel pretty strong today,

225
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Speaker 3: so I can probably talk about it. But sometimes if

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Speaker 3: I just talk about sad stuff, it's overwhelming. But not

227
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Speaker 3: that long after he died, I dreamed of him. I've

228
00:17:05,956 --> 00:17:11,716
Speaker 3: never been there, but on a British or riding his

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Speaker 3: bike with a stocking cap. And then like the three beards,

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Speaker 3: in the back of him was Yokoa and in back

231
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Speaker 3: of her was shown each one is in the little

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Speaker 3: bike and there was a pier. And as he turned

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Speaker 3: to go on to the pier, he looked at me.

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Speaker 3: Gentleman is looking at me, and he sang this, Let's see.

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Speaker 3: There was a crooked man who lived on a crooked shore.

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Speaker 3: But now he'll never have to go away anymore.

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Speaker 8: Away from the sky. Ahway from the sky.

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Speaker 3: And turned onto the pier and they followed him. Really

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Speaker 3: when I woke up, because sometimes those things dissolve instantly,

240
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Speaker 3: I don't know why, but that part never made it

241
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Speaker 3: into the recording, I saved the real party saying for

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Speaker 3: myself and I made up a song based on a

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Speaker 3: Dylan Thomas short story called After the Fair. You know

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Speaker 3: the thing on the record is my demo. So I'm

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Speaker 3: just going boom boomed, as minimal as it can be.

246
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Speaker 3: And then, and because I was probably half writing it

247
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Speaker 3: as I recorded. For all that it cost him, he

248
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Speaker 3: never did complain. The chicken headed man. They're feathering the rain,

249
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Speaker 3: but the last bassist tie.

250
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Speaker 4: Everybody's gone.

251
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Speaker 3: The horses are painted with the waiting.

252
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Speaker 4: Of the lawn. Go from the rodeo.

253
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Speaker 3: God, from the tundraug girl, it's after the fair.

254
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Speaker 5: That's when I see you.

255
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Speaker 3: There she sleeps in the canvas. The fat man hollers,

256
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Speaker 3: O tender is the night I feel bleeding out of you.

257
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Speaker 3: So come into my trailer. We can toast a little bread.

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Speaker 4: Now.

259
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Speaker 5: Look, you left a hole oil laid on my bed.

260
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Speaker 4: He said. But you keep what you can keep. And

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Speaker 4: when you dive into the deep this year, after Froz

262
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Speaker 4: and you, that's where saved youse.

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Speaker 10: Away from the sky, Oh.

264
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Speaker 5: Away from the sky, Oh, away from the sky, Away

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Speaker 5: from the sky.

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Speaker 3: But everybody's gone.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 3: It's after the fair. The horses are waiting in the middle.

269
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Speaker 4: Of the So you turn the.

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Speaker 3: Care yourself on. When the lights closed down, you can

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Speaker 3: watch the ponies round through the middle of town.

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Speaker 4: That you go, little girl, there you.

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Speaker 6: Go, gone from the tongue run.

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Speaker 5: Now it's after the fences.

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Speaker 7: When over the fences again and the vacuum and the hole.

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Speaker 3: And the plans up in.

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Speaker 4: The air, that's where I.

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Speaker 1: Can hear your best.

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Speaker 5: But away from the sky, Away from the sky, Oh,

280
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Speaker 5: from the sky.

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Speaker 4: Away from the skyes.

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Speaker 1: That was Ricky Lee Jones performing her song away from

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Speaker 1: the Sky. We have to take a quick break and

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Speaker 1: we'll be back with more from Bruce Headlam and Ricky

285
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Speaker 1: Lee Jones. We're back with more from Ricky Lee Jones.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting because I reread your your autobiography and now

287
00:24:40,436 --> 00:24:41,836
Speaker 2: you moved so much when you.

288
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Speaker 1: Were a kid.

289
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Speaker 2: Yes, it seemed that you were always having to reintroduce

290
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Speaker 2: your or introduce yourself.

291
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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Although you always did it, it seemed to fill you

293
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Speaker 2: with terror, the idea that he.

294
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Speaker 3: Yes, and that terror of people basic mistrust and expectation

295
00:24:59,876 --> 00:25:03,276
Speaker 3: that at some point don't do their worst. Stayed with me.

296
00:25:04,436 --> 00:25:08,996
Speaker 3: The playground seems to be ever with us, I could

297
00:25:09,236 --> 00:25:11,796
Speaker 3: say with me, But it does seem like that that

298
00:25:11,916 --> 00:25:15,316
Speaker 3: scenario is playing out over and over again of a

299
00:25:15,436 --> 00:25:20,956
Speaker 3: bully kids who want to follow the bully, just so

300
00:25:20,996 --> 00:25:24,596
Speaker 3: they don't get picked on. A couple kids who are

301
00:25:25,076 --> 00:25:28,556
Speaker 3: one's different or one's as poor, or it's always the

302
00:25:28,636 --> 00:25:32,756
Speaker 3: same dynamic of who's on top and who's underneath. And

303
00:25:33,396 --> 00:25:36,156
Speaker 3: I think the fact that I was a little different,

304
00:25:36,796 --> 00:25:38,916
Speaker 3: though I didn't think so, but I think I must

305
00:25:38,996 --> 00:25:44,276
Speaker 3: have been gave me someone to be so that I

306
00:25:44,396 --> 00:25:49,316
Speaker 3: wasn't anonymous, because I guess more than I hated being

307
00:25:49,356 --> 00:25:54,156
Speaker 3: picked on, I hated being invisible. So I accepted that,

308
00:25:55,596 --> 00:25:57,876
Speaker 3: but I really never understood why I'd look in the

309
00:25:57,916 --> 00:26:01,556
Speaker 3: mirror and go, aren't I pretty? Why don't they like me?

310
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Speaker 3: And it's still a mystery to me, really.

311
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Speaker 2: Yes, even later in your book, you're very critical of

312
00:26:11,436 --> 00:26:16,116
Speaker 2: what was sort of late stage hippies. So the people

313
00:26:16,196 --> 00:26:19,596
Speaker 2: you hung around with, it seemed that when you were traveling,

314
00:26:19,756 --> 00:26:22,996
Speaker 2: and you started traveling, I think at fourteen and just

315
00:26:23,076 --> 00:26:26,276
Speaker 2: checking hiking, and you know, you lived in a cave

316
00:26:26,396 --> 00:26:29,556
Speaker 2: for a while. There were other people in the cave too,

317
00:26:29,636 --> 00:26:32,596
Speaker 2: but I was still a cave, you know. It seemed that,

318
00:26:33,236 --> 00:26:35,436
Speaker 2: you know, particularly a lot of the menu met were

319
00:26:35,556 --> 00:26:41,556
Speaker 2: very the usury. They're very predatory, and they were the hippies.

320
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Speaker 2: They were they talked a good game, but a lot

321
00:26:45,636 --> 00:26:46,716
Speaker 2: of them were very abusive.

322
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Speaker 3: Well, I was really young, and I believed what I read,

323
00:26:53,316 --> 00:26:57,636
Speaker 3: my impressions of what it would be like to be

324
00:26:57,756 --> 00:27:01,836
Speaker 3: a grown up in that world, to be an active

325
00:27:01,916 --> 00:27:06,476
Speaker 3: member of their idea of what life should be like.

326
00:27:06,596 --> 00:27:13,396
Speaker 3: But those people were just greasers a little bit older, right,

327
00:27:14,476 --> 00:27:17,356
Speaker 3: They were just the tough kids at school in nineteen

328
00:27:17,436 --> 00:27:20,876
Speaker 3: sixty two, or whoever they were. I saw them as

329
00:27:20,956 --> 00:27:26,316
Speaker 3: magically appearing with long hair like Christ. And so, you know,

330
00:27:27,196 --> 00:27:31,236
Speaker 3: I was definitely needed a place to stay and needed

331
00:27:31,236 --> 00:27:34,996
Speaker 3: something to eat, and the cost of that was my body,

332
00:27:35,596 --> 00:27:40,596
Speaker 3: and you know, that was very hard. Sometimes I just

333
00:27:40,916 --> 00:27:44,996
Speaker 3: wanted to be able to rest and not have to

334
00:27:45,076 --> 00:27:50,436
Speaker 3: struggle with some guide. Would he relent and not try

335
00:27:50,476 --> 00:27:53,556
Speaker 3: to put his dick in me? Or would that be

336
00:27:53,596 --> 00:27:58,836
Speaker 3: the cost of having a night of food. I have

337
00:27:58,956 --> 00:28:03,276
Speaker 3: never actually said that so starkly and truly, because it

338
00:28:03,356 --> 00:28:06,556
Speaker 3: was so hard and a little kid, you know, and

339
00:28:06,596 --> 00:28:11,276
Speaker 3: then getting up the next day if you lucky, if

340
00:28:11,276 --> 00:28:14,436
Speaker 3: it's the next day and they don't want you there anymore.

341
00:28:14,476 --> 00:28:17,916
Speaker 3: And I think every single guy I met, I thought,

342
00:28:18,196 --> 00:28:22,236
Speaker 3: well he married me? Is he the one who loved me,

343
00:28:23,196 --> 00:28:28,516
Speaker 3: every one of them, and so that was lots of disappointments.

344
00:28:28,556 --> 00:28:31,956
Speaker 3: But I've, you know, have many years to think about it,

345
00:28:31,996 --> 00:28:36,196
Speaker 3: and I was really just a very little kid in

346
00:28:36,236 --> 00:28:41,436
Speaker 3: a woman's body, in a costume that looked like old

347
00:28:41,556 --> 00:28:45,156
Speaker 3: enough for them. I think some of them would have

348
00:28:45,396 --> 00:28:48,516
Speaker 3: withdrawn if they knew my two age, but most of

349
00:28:48,556 --> 00:28:51,516
Speaker 3: them know. I think it was kind of cool, right

350
00:28:52,036 --> 00:28:55,316
Speaker 3: to be attracted to a young teenager. They still sell

351
00:28:55,356 --> 00:28:59,916
Speaker 3: that image a lot of school girl like hit Me

352
00:29:00,076 --> 00:29:01,316
Speaker 3: Baby One More.

353
00:29:01,196 --> 00:29:02,436
Speaker 2: Time Britney spears.

354
00:29:02,676 --> 00:29:06,876
Speaker 3: Yeah, she sold that image as well. So as long

355
00:29:06,916 --> 00:29:10,636
Speaker 3: as we let that image be sold and you know

356
00:29:10,756 --> 00:29:14,916
Speaker 3: that stuff is going on in reality, I.

357
00:29:14,836 --> 00:29:17,916
Speaker 2: Do want to talk about a nice guy. Yes, that's

358
00:29:18,476 --> 00:29:22,756
Speaker 2: your producer on this project, Russ Titelman, who was one

359
00:29:22,756 --> 00:29:26,076
Speaker 2: of your first producers. Yeah, my first, your first. He

360
00:29:26,156 --> 00:29:26,596
Speaker 2: was your first.

361
00:29:26,916 --> 00:29:31,156
Speaker 3: I had two producers, Lenny Warrenker and Russ Titleman, and

362
00:29:31,356 --> 00:29:35,396
Speaker 3: I'd seen Lenny. I didn't know from producers, but I

363
00:29:35,436 --> 00:29:38,556
Speaker 3: saw Lenny's name on the back of a Randy Newman record.

364
00:29:38,756 --> 00:29:42,596
Speaker 3: It's about two years maybe before I got signed.

365
00:29:43,356 --> 00:29:46,276
Speaker 2: Most people would have wanted to meet Randy Newman. No,

366
00:29:46,636 --> 00:29:48,516
Speaker 2: you went into the small type.

367
00:29:48,556 --> 00:29:52,076
Speaker 3: That's right. I've always known that's the way in. You

368
00:29:52,116 --> 00:29:55,876
Speaker 3: can't go for the big, big thing because everybody wants

369
00:29:55,916 --> 00:29:58,436
Speaker 3: to meet Randy. But if you find I was an

370
00:29:58,956 --> 00:30:04,876
Speaker 3: infamous getter in Backstage Girl, and I'd watched the secret

371
00:30:04,916 --> 00:30:08,276
Speaker 3: way that nobody was going and just slip in that way.

372
00:30:08,716 --> 00:30:12,196
Speaker 3: So that was the same philosophy of how to get in.

373
00:30:12,996 --> 00:30:18,396
Speaker 3: So anyway his name, and so we sent tapes around

374
00:30:18,916 --> 00:30:22,836
Speaker 3: to three or four people. He got one of them

375
00:30:23,236 --> 00:30:27,196
Speaker 3: and and I was exactly right. He was the way,

376
00:30:27,796 --> 00:30:32,036
Speaker 3: and I pushed, you know, when the record companies went

377
00:30:32,116 --> 00:30:35,796
Speaker 3: to sign me, this little I think it was called

378
00:30:35,836 --> 00:30:39,276
Speaker 3: Portrait or something. This little company made the best offer,

379
00:30:39,956 --> 00:30:43,356
Speaker 3: and we went back to Warner Brothers, my lawyer, a

380
00:30:43,636 --> 00:30:47,836
Speaker 3: big shot working for free. We talked him and I'm

381
00:30:47,876 --> 00:30:50,316
Speaker 3: going to be a big shot and said, you know,

382
00:30:50,796 --> 00:30:53,036
Speaker 3: she wants to go with Lindy. So if you'll meet

383
00:30:53,076 --> 00:30:55,036
Speaker 3: the offer. I don't know if that's okay to tell that,

384
00:30:55,396 --> 00:30:58,196
Speaker 3: but if you'll meet the offer, it we'll come with you.

385
00:30:58,476 --> 00:31:02,156
Speaker 3: And that happened exactly as it was meant to. So

386
00:31:02,956 --> 00:31:06,596
Speaker 3: Lenny sent the tape to Russ because they were partners

387
00:31:06,636 --> 00:31:09,996
Speaker 3: in production. Russ was working with George Harris in England,

388
00:31:11,076 --> 00:31:14,356
Speaker 3: and he tells this story a lot now now that

389
00:31:14,396 --> 00:31:19,196
Speaker 3: we're reunited. So when he heard Company, he called Lenny

390
00:31:19,196 --> 00:31:23,156
Speaker 3: and said, this girl is a singer. She's like roberta Flock,

391
00:31:23,916 --> 00:31:28,956
Speaker 3: which is a pretty big compliment. And Lenny said, I

392
00:31:29,196 --> 00:31:31,796
Speaker 3: really noticed I was listening to the songs, so they

393
00:31:31,796 --> 00:31:37,436
Speaker 3: were perfect. Him addressing the songs, we got to put

394
00:31:37,476 --> 00:31:41,316
Speaker 3: an accordion on the bridge because the Italians are there,

395
00:31:41,556 --> 00:31:44,836
Speaker 3: and him addressing the singer, you got to go sing

396
00:31:44,876 --> 00:31:46,756
Speaker 3: that line again. So it was good.

397
00:31:47,676 --> 00:31:52,796
Speaker 2: It's hard to imagine now just what a incredible period

398
00:31:52,876 --> 00:31:55,316
Speaker 2: that was for you. You'd only been writing songs for

399
00:31:55,596 --> 00:31:59,996
Speaker 2: a couple of years. Yes, you were living in La I.

400
00:31:59,956 --> 00:32:05,116
Speaker 3: Was homeless in the months before I was signed. I

401
00:32:05,236 --> 00:32:07,276
Speaker 3: just tumbled into having nowhere to go.

402
00:32:07,996 --> 00:32:10,196
Speaker 2: What was it like, suddenly the these record companies are

403
00:32:10,196 --> 00:32:10,756
Speaker 2: bidding for you.

404
00:32:10,956 --> 00:32:13,556
Speaker 3: Yeah, it felt as if it was always supposed to

405
00:32:13,596 --> 00:32:14,076
Speaker 3: be that way.

406
00:32:14,236 --> 00:32:16,236
Speaker 2: Did you always think that growing up that this was

407
00:32:16,276 --> 00:32:16,876
Speaker 2: going to happen.

408
00:32:17,276 --> 00:32:23,196
Speaker 3: No, But I always felt that I was going somewhere special.

409
00:32:23,956 --> 00:32:26,876
Speaker 3: I always felt like I was always talking to the

410
00:32:26,916 --> 00:32:30,476
Speaker 3: invisible world and God's cameras right about here. Is how

411
00:32:30,516 --> 00:32:33,716
Speaker 3: you got it is look up today. So it's hard

412
00:32:33,716 --> 00:32:38,116
Speaker 3: to explain what I always thought, but I feel a

413
00:32:38,196 --> 00:32:43,756
Speaker 3: constant connection to something that almost has no words but

414
00:32:44,036 --> 00:32:47,796
Speaker 3: is ever present in here. But I can't say that

415
00:32:47,916 --> 00:32:51,876
Speaker 3: I did you know? My life was troubled and going nowhere.

416
00:32:51,916 --> 00:32:55,916
Speaker 3: I didn't have any skills, I'd quit high school, but

417
00:32:56,036 --> 00:33:00,236
Speaker 3: I had this. When I sang, it was all that

418
00:33:00,396 --> 00:33:06,796
Speaker 3: I am. Anything I sang was totally emotional. And then

419
00:33:07,076 --> 00:33:09,636
Speaker 3: I got this job as a singing way too, and

420
00:33:09,756 --> 00:33:14,076
Speaker 3: everybody else was so much louder than me. I thought,

421
00:33:14,676 --> 00:33:18,196
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to learn how to sing louder or

422
00:33:18,236 --> 00:33:23,236
Speaker 3: I'm never gonna get a job. So I taught myself.

423
00:33:23,276 --> 00:33:25,476
Speaker 3: But there was a book, and I put my hands

424
00:33:25,516 --> 00:33:29,756
Speaker 3: on my chest and found a way to put that

425
00:33:29,956 --> 00:33:35,116
Speaker 3: sound in the bones and practice. And that was the first,

426
00:33:35,236 --> 00:33:37,596
Speaker 3: you know, because always thought it was a great singer,

427
00:33:37,716 --> 00:33:40,916
Speaker 3: But the fact was I could be a great singer,

428
00:33:40,956 --> 00:33:43,596
Speaker 3: but it wasn't. So I taught myself to be a

429
00:33:43,636 --> 00:33:47,436
Speaker 3: better singer. As soon as I did that, within a year,

430
00:33:47,876 --> 00:33:52,316
Speaker 3: it presented itself to me. It was just life presented

431
00:33:52,396 --> 00:33:53,076
Speaker 3: itself to me.

432
00:33:53,516 --> 00:33:56,236
Speaker 2: Did you not know you wanted to be a singer

433
00:33:56,276 --> 00:33:58,796
Speaker 2: before that. What made you finally focus on that?

434
00:34:00,796 --> 00:34:05,716
Speaker 3: You know, since I was sixteen, I'd been practicing, you know,

435
00:34:05,876 --> 00:34:09,516
Speaker 3: sweet Juty blue Eyes and singing and play with my

436
00:34:09,556 --> 00:34:12,876
Speaker 3: girlfriend Julian, playing everywhere. But when I was on my

437
00:34:12,956 --> 00:34:16,516
Speaker 3: own and got to La, it seemed like that will

438
00:34:16,556 --> 00:34:19,716
Speaker 3: never happen there. It's a town full of people trying

439
00:34:19,716 --> 00:34:22,796
Speaker 3: to do it. And you're so weird. You're not like

440
00:34:22,916 --> 00:34:27,076
Speaker 3: Joni Mitchell. You can't sing like Joe Bias. You're so weird,

441
00:34:28,396 --> 00:34:33,916
Speaker 3: right because you're different, and so somebody will come. They

442
00:34:33,996 --> 00:34:37,596
Speaker 3: might not all, but somebody will come because you're different.

443
00:34:37,596 --> 00:34:41,676
Speaker 3: They'll like that about you. And I had this natural

444
00:34:41,716 --> 00:34:46,476
Speaker 3: thing for jazz. My father sang jazz and his father

445
00:34:46,676 --> 00:34:49,956
Speaker 3: was a vaudevillion And I began to you know, what

446
00:34:50,076 --> 00:34:53,596
Speaker 3: I know how to do is my funny Valentine. And

447
00:34:53,676 --> 00:34:57,956
Speaker 3: so I started singing the jazz ballads in Venice when

448
00:34:58,156 --> 00:35:01,356
Speaker 3: and nobody was doing it. So that felt powerful. I

449
00:35:01,356 --> 00:35:04,876
Speaker 3: have something that's just mine and I did it really well,

450
00:35:05,076 --> 00:35:11,156
Speaker 3: and the local snooty musician and suddenly were like, we

451
00:35:11,476 --> 00:35:14,956
Speaker 3: like you come and sit in with us again. So

452
00:35:15,036 --> 00:35:18,436
Speaker 3: I started to feel like I had a possibility and

453
00:35:18,556 --> 00:35:21,236
Speaker 3: an identity, and then in a short time I had

454
00:35:21,316 --> 00:35:25,316
Speaker 3: my own Friday night gig at a bar, and then

455
00:35:25,396 --> 00:35:29,316
Speaker 3: a short time later I was making a demo for

456
00:35:29,396 --> 00:35:34,676
Speaker 3: a record company. So once I set aside doubt and

457
00:35:34,796 --> 00:35:38,716
Speaker 3: my mother said, I said, Mom, I'm going to go

458
00:35:38,796 --> 00:35:42,316
Speaker 3: to school and be a stenographer. I've only got to

459
00:35:42,356 --> 00:35:45,516
Speaker 3: go eighteen months and I'll have a job. She said,

460
00:35:46,156 --> 00:35:49,596
Speaker 3: but I thought you wanted to be a singer, imagine,

461
00:35:50,676 --> 00:35:53,836
Speaker 3: And I said I did, but I just can't see

462
00:35:53,876 --> 00:35:56,716
Speaker 3: how that would ever happen. And she said, don't you

463
00:35:56,876 --> 00:35:58,676
Speaker 3: give up on your dreams.

464
00:35:59,356 --> 00:36:02,236
Speaker 2: Interesting because your mother had had a very tough life,

465
00:36:02,476 --> 00:36:06,196
Speaker 2: very tough. She'd been an orphan. Yeah, your father lost

466
00:36:06,316 --> 00:36:07,516
Speaker 2: his mother very young.

467
00:36:07,356 --> 00:36:09,956
Speaker 3: As well, so they're both that in common.

468
00:36:10,596 --> 00:36:14,156
Speaker 2: And she seemed to live a very controlled life and

469
00:36:14,276 --> 00:36:16,676
Speaker 2: either keep she had to keep things. She kept things

470
00:36:16,716 --> 00:36:20,636
Speaker 2: together for other people. It's interesting that she was the

471
00:36:20,636 --> 00:36:22,476
Speaker 2: one who said to you, I thought you wanted to

472
00:36:22,516 --> 00:36:22,956
Speaker 2: be a sending.

473
00:36:23,196 --> 00:36:27,236
Speaker 3: No, it was almost divine, like the other voice said,

474
00:36:27,276 --> 00:36:29,036
Speaker 3: we got to speak through Betty right now, or she's

475
00:36:29,076 --> 00:36:34,396
Speaker 3: going to give up. Don't give up on your dreams. Yeah,

476
00:36:34,396 --> 00:36:38,436
Speaker 3: it was unexpected and so heartfelt that I thought, my

477
00:36:38,596 --> 00:36:42,676
Speaker 3: mother is invested in me trying with all my might

478
00:36:42,796 --> 00:36:47,316
Speaker 3: to make a dream come true, And it almost seemed

479
00:36:47,356 --> 00:36:50,476
Speaker 3: like it was more she wanted me to try, But

480
00:36:50,676 --> 00:36:53,316
Speaker 3: I thought, maybe she thinks I can do it too.

481
00:36:53,556 --> 00:36:56,876
Speaker 3: She's not here, she didn't see what's happening, but she

482
00:36:57,076 --> 00:36:57,796
Speaker 3: believes me.

483
00:36:58,396 --> 00:37:00,516
Speaker 2: When you got into the studio for the first time,

484
00:37:00,916 --> 00:37:04,716
Speaker 2: you played with bands, and you had fabulous players I did.

485
00:37:05,196 --> 00:37:10,596
Speaker 3: You had Steve gadd Andy, Newmark, Willie Week, the incredible

486
00:37:10,676 --> 00:37:15,396
Speaker 3: Victor Feldman who was in Miles Davis's band, and did

487
00:37:15,436 --> 00:37:18,916
Speaker 3: all that's Teelee Dan work. So one of the things

488
00:37:18,916 --> 00:37:21,156
Speaker 3: about when you were with the top tier players is

489
00:37:21,196 --> 00:37:26,476
Speaker 3: they're very kind. It's the other ones that's jabbulut. But

490
00:37:27,036 --> 00:37:31,156
Speaker 3: the best players are very kind and they love making music.

491
00:37:32,476 --> 00:37:35,156
Speaker 3: And so I couldn't write it, but I could sing

492
00:37:35,196 --> 00:37:38,636
Speaker 3: it all. So I sang all the horn parts, and

493
00:37:38,796 --> 00:37:41,876
Speaker 3: somebody wrote them down and they played them and they

494
00:37:41,916 --> 00:37:44,476
Speaker 3: were exactly how I thought they would sound in my head.

495
00:37:45,076 --> 00:37:48,836
Speaker 3: But the other aspects of recording, like Chucky's in Love

496
00:37:48,876 --> 00:37:52,796
Speaker 3: and stuff, as it manifested into the physical world, it

497
00:37:52,836 --> 00:37:56,596
Speaker 3: wasn't at all what I only ever heard my voice

498
00:37:56,676 --> 00:38:03,436
Speaker 3: and me. So the producers endeavored to bring to reality

499
00:38:03,956 --> 00:38:08,716
Speaker 3: whatever feeling they thought I had, and their own, you know,

500
00:38:09,516 --> 00:38:13,036
Speaker 3: how to make a good record. I think their choices

501
00:38:13,076 --> 00:38:20,436
Speaker 3: were always much cleaner, tamer, precise. Then I might have gone.

502
00:38:20,716 --> 00:38:23,476
Speaker 3: And I'm glad, you know, and I've known people like

503
00:38:23,636 --> 00:38:28,116
Speaker 3: this about me best I think then the more raggedy stuff.

504
00:38:28,116 --> 00:38:33,996
Speaker 3: But they took me out gently and my guitar playing

505
00:38:34,836 --> 00:38:35,516
Speaker 3: and put in.

506
00:38:36,636 --> 00:38:41,596
Speaker 2: So what was that like? That incredible year? You're signed,

507
00:38:41,716 --> 00:38:46,076
Speaker 2: you make this record with these amazing players, You're on

508
00:38:46,116 --> 00:38:50,156
Speaker 2: Saturday Night Live, you argue with them on Saturday Night Live,

509
00:38:50,196 --> 00:38:54,036
Speaker 2: which I thought was pretty gutsy. They wanted you to

510
00:38:54,076 --> 00:38:56,036
Speaker 2: do one song you wanted to do Coolsville.

511
00:38:56,236 --> 00:38:56,636
Speaker 10: I did.

512
00:38:57,116 --> 00:39:01,076
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember seeing that Saturday Night Live. Everybody does.

513
00:39:01,156 --> 00:39:05,076
Speaker 2: It was a you were suddenly huge. Yeah, and you

514
00:39:05,156 --> 00:39:09,756
Speaker 2: had a check for fifty thous that's right. Was what

515
00:39:09,876 --> 00:39:11,076
Speaker 2: was the first thing you bought with that?

516
00:39:13,196 --> 00:39:16,236
Speaker 3: Probably? You know, dinner? First of all, I had nowhere

517
00:39:16,276 --> 00:39:18,796
Speaker 3: to put it. I didn't have a bank account, so

518
00:39:18,956 --> 00:39:21,196
Speaker 3: when I got that check, I still had to borrow

519
00:39:21,236 --> 00:39:25,356
Speaker 3: some money from Lenny because I didn't have a cash

520
00:39:25,556 --> 00:39:28,516
Speaker 3: and really I didn't know how anything worked. And know

521
00:39:28,556 --> 00:39:30,916
Speaker 3: how to have a bank account or how to tip

522
00:39:31,156 --> 00:39:35,676
Speaker 3: or so what was that like? You know, it's almost

523
00:39:35,716 --> 00:39:41,916
Speaker 3: like the whole life was holding his breath so for

524
00:39:41,916 --> 00:39:46,396
Speaker 3: for a little while, everything was just shimmering and still

525
00:39:46,996 --> 00:39:51,996
Speaker 3: and right, that's what it was, like, I think, But.

526
00:39:52,156 --> 00:39:55,516
Speaker 2: You beat the second album curse I did?

527
00:39:55,916 --> 00:39:59,956
Speaker 3: I meant to too that, you're like, I was well

528
00:39:59,996 --> 00:40:03,956
Speaker 3: aware of it. I had met Bet Middler at a dinner.

529
00:40:04,796 --> 00:40:05,876
Speaker 2: Was this before your record?

530
00:40:06,076 --> 00:40:09,436
Speaker 3: Yeah, before the first record? So because you thought, she said,

531
00:40:09,516 --> 00:40:11,836
Speaker 3: let me tell you what's going to happen. You're gonna

532
00:40:11,836 --> 00:40:15,116
Speaker 3: put this one out and if it doesn't do horrible,

533
00:40:15,556 --> 00:40:18,436
Speaker 3: they'll pick up your second one, and not to your

534
00:40:18,476 --> 00:40:21,836
Speaker 3: third record. Will you have any kind of acclaimer success?

535
00:40:21,876 --> 00:40:23,836
Speaker 3: And that was kind of what happened to most people.

536
00:40:24,596 --> 00:40:27,796
Speaker 3: And that was I thought, nah, we'll see. I think

537
00:40:27,876 --> 00:40:30,436
Speaker 3: my first record's probably gonna do pretty good. So when

538
00:40:30,436 --> 00:40:35,716
Speaker 3: we had the big success, so big, bigger than anything.

539
00:40:36,956 --> 00:40:41,116
Speaker 3: Hard to find a woman who had had that kind

540
00:40:41,196 --> 00:40:45,316
Speaker 3: of success coming out the gate, though you know, they

541
00:40:45,396 --> 00:40:48,956
Speaker 3: probably weren't telling it up in the sixties in exactly

542
00:40:48,996 --> 00:40:50,676
Speaker 3: the same way, but it was. It was a very

543
00:40:50,676 --> 00:40:52,596
Speaker 3: big thing, and it was a crossover kind of thing,

544
00:40:52,636 --> 00:40:57,276
Speaker 3: and culturally, I got to expand the idea. You know,

545
00:40:57,596 --> 00:41:00,116
Speaker 3: I was a singer songwriter, but I wasn't a fochy

546
00:41:00,876 --> 00:41:04,516
Speaker 3: And these things sound small now, but they were big

547
00:41:05,036 --> 00:41:08,956
Speaker 3: making people accept that it works. It'll make everybody money,

548
00:41:09,156 --> 00:41:14,156
Speaker 3: and it's different than what was before. So I know

549
00:41:14,396 --> 00:41:18,156
Speaker 3: I can't match this record in any way. I'm not

550
00:41:18,276 --> 00:41:21,516
Speaker 3: the same person. I'm not as happy, and those are

551
00:41:21,556 --> 00:41:24,876
Speaker 3: a lot of beautiful, happy songs, and I'm not on

552
00:41:24,956 --> 00:41:29,076
Speaker 3: this side of the mountain anymore. So from the other

553
00:41:29,156 --> 00:41:33,796
Speaker 3: side of the mountain, I will draw the picture of

554
00:41:33,836 --> 00:41:40,116
Speaker 3: what I see fiercely, and I won't give one eyelash

555
00:41:40,716 --> 00:41:43,996
Speaker 3: to the idea of a song that you'll play on

556
00:41:44,036 --> 00:41:49,036
Speaker 3: the radio. And so a little bit of it is defiance,

557
00:41:49,516 --> 00:41:52,836
Speaker 3: and that's okay. You can't help but not respond to

558
00:41:52,836 --> 00:41:57,956
Speaker 3: what's happening. You know, if that hadn't happened, what would

559
00:41:57,956 --> 00:41:58,596
Speaker 3: I have written?

560
00:41:58,596 --> 00:41:58,996
Speaker 4: I don't know.

561
00:41:59,076 --> 00:42:02,076
Speaker 3: But so what I wrote was what was happening to me.

562
00:42:03,036 --> 00:42:06,276
Speaker 3: And I think that the incredible thing that happens with

563
00:42:06,396 --> 00:42:10,956
Speaker 3: the recording is it captures more than in the song itself.

564
00:42:10,996 --> 00:42:16,276
Speaker 3: It captures your intention and it captures your spirit That's

565
00:42:16,316 --> 00:42:20,796
Speaker 3: the inexplicable thing about a great record is it has spirit,

566
00:42:21,756 --> 00:42:26,276
Speaker 3: and people put it on the list of their important records.

567
00:42:26,516 --> 00:42:31,716
Speaker 3: I personally think the first record is important, but I

568
00:42:31,756 --> 00:42:37,236
Speaker 3: don't exactly know why Pirates matters more. I'm guessing people

569
00:42:37,236 --> 00:42:39,356
Speaker 3: who put it on their favorite lists don't know it's

570
00:42:39,396 --> 00:42:43,876
Speaker 3: the SECA record, so they don't know it's overcoming expectations.

571
00:42:43,916 --> 00:42:47,596
Speaker 3: But I like it. It's dreamy. It's remarkable in its

572
00:42:47,716 --> 00:42:51,876
Speaker 3: musicality and sophistication for a girl who had no education.

573
00:42:52,516 --> 00:42:56,956
Speaker 3: But I like a song I can sing, like I

574
00:42:57,076 --> 00:43:00,876
Speaker 3: was saying, I like a melody that you remember. I

575
00:43:00,916 --> 00:43:04,676
Speaker 3: don't know if anybody can sing the traces of the

576
00:43:04,716 --> 00:43:08,876
Speaker 3: Western slopes, you know. So I don't mean to insult myself,

577
00:43:08,916 --> 00:43:13,556
Speaker 3: but I'm glad that it hit with people. But then

578
00:43:13,716 --> 00:43:17,436
Speaker 3: the curse probably came some years later. I took a

579
00:43:17,476 --> 00:43:21,836
Speaker 3: long time to make the third record. It was nineteen

580
00:43:21,916 --> 00:43:26,316
Speaker 3: eighty four, I think, so I had gone in and

581
00:43:26,396 --> 00:43:31,356
Speaker 3: out of heroin addiction, and a couple of times I

582
00:43:31,396 --> 00:43:35,116
Speaker 3: had drunk on stage, not many, but the times I did.

583
00:43:35,596 --> 00:43:39,196
Speaker 3: There was a big, full length photograph in a newspaper,

584
00:43:39,276 --> 00:43:49,996
Speaker 3: and the promoters. The promoters Union exiled me from many stages.

585
00:43:50,436 --> 00:43:54,316
Speaker 3: Guys did much worse, but I think that there was

586
00:43:54,396 --> 00:44:00,636
Speaker 3: an expectation of proper, pristine behavior from me because of

587
00:44:00,676 --> 00:44:01,996
Speaker 3: the quality.

588
00:44:01,516 --> 00:44:02,156
Speaker 9: Of the work.

589
00:44:02,796 --> 00:44:06,756
Speaker 3: We don't like our girls to behave badly, and they

590
00:44:06,836 --> 00:44:10,996
Speaker 3: want to think of of a woman. It's a tragic,

591
00:44:11,276 --> 00:44:15,236
Speaker 3: falling figure. And so many people want to disrespect to

592
00:44:15,316 --> 00:44:21,556
Speaker 3: anybody instead of loving, forgiving, spreading that goodwill. So I

593
00:44:21,676 --> 00:44:25,556
Speaker 3: was in a really defensive posture when I did the magazine.

594
00:44:25,716 --> 00:44:28,916
Speaker 3: I was off drugs and I wanted everybody to know it,

595
00:44:29,476 --> 00:44:33,716
Speaker 3: and I did a cover looking really off drugs.

596
00:44:33,316 --> 00:44:35,356
Speaker 2: And everybody's very healthy, very.

597
00:44:35,196 --> 00:44:39,676
Speaker 3: Healthy, and I was super healthy. But I spent some

598
00:44:39,716 --> 00:44:43,396
Speaker 3: time in France and I was leaning towards a more

599
00:44:44,836 --> 00:44:50,436
Speaker 3: classical kind of music. Now I'd heard Eric Sati and

600
00:44:50,516 --> 00:44:55,676
Speaker 3: it was expanding in another way. So these are weird.

601
00:44:55,956 --> 00:44:59,516
Speaker 3: This was the one album I wrote that I wanted

602
00:44:59,556 --> 00:45:03,516
Speaker 3: to do theater with it, So this was the direction

603
00:45:03,596 --> 00:45:07,476
Speaker 3: I would have liked to have grown in some version

604
00:45:07,596 --> 00:45:12,516
Speaker 3: of my life, to write theater and act. But at

605
00:45:12,516 --> 00:45:18,316
Speaker 3: that point I seemed to be just collapsing emotionally. The

606
00:45:19,196 --> 00:45:23,116
Speaker 3: broken love affairs, the trail of dead, and the very

607
00:45:23,156 --> 00:45:25,876
Speaker 3: beginning of living with Tom Waits for the rest of

608
00:45:25,916 --> 00:45:30,116
Speaker 3: my life because nobody would stop asking me about him.

609
00:45:30,116 --> 00:45:34,276
Speaker 3: In every interview. Aside from that, it was kind of emotional.

610
00:45:34,316 --> 00:45:37,636
Speaker 3: It's like, but aren't I a musician? You have no

611
00:45:38,476 --> 00:45:41,956
Speaker 3: respect or interest in the person who's sitting in front

612
00:45:41,996 --> 00:45:44,796
Speaker 3: of you. Now, if you want to talk to Tom, the

613
00:45:44,796 --> 00:45:47,156
Speaker 3: phone over there, call him, But why do you want

614
00:45:47,196 --> 00:45:52,196
Speaker 3: to talk to me about that? So you know, there

615
00:45:52,196 --> 00:45:55,716
Speaker 3: were years where I was resentful and angry and tell

616
00:45:55,756 --> 00:45:59,236
Speaker 3: them if they mention it, they'll be escorted out, and

617
00:45:59,556 --> 00:46:04,196
Speaker 3: all these things till finally, I don't know, in the

618
00:46:04,276 --> 00:46:08,476
Speaker 3: last ten years I went, isn't that wonderful? We have

619
00:46:08,636 --> 00:46:14,516
Speaker 3: lived together all our lives, that brief time, that beautiful

620
00:46:14,676 --> 00:46:20,876
Speaker 3: time that was so remarkable to audiences and so enchanting.

621
00:46:20,996 --> 00:46:25,316
Speaker 3: We looked like we belong together that song, and they

622
00:46:25,356 --> 00:46:29,916
Speaker 3: won't let it go? Isn't that wonderful? And would have

623
00:46:30,156 --> 00:46:34,836
Speaker 3: liked to have had some peace with him, but that

624
00:46:35,236 --> 00:46:38,156
Speaker 3: did not and would never happen, And that was all

625
00:46:38,316 --> 00:46:41,516
Speaker 3: that turned out to be just as hard as living

626
00:46:41,556 --> 00:46:43,956
Speaker 3: with the questions, you know, twenty years ago.

627
00:46:44,036 --> 00:46:48,396
Speaker 2: But now I'm mean living with the unresolved yeah.

628
00:46:47,876 --> 00:46:53,236
Speaker 3: And also the pain of this breakup was really hard.

629
00:46:53,996 --> 00:46:59,076
Speaker 3: But to be reminded by every passing stranger who comes

630
00:46:59,116 --> 00:47:02,356
Speaker 3: to talk, especially in Europe, they really want to know,

631
00:47:03,476 --> 00:47:04,956
Speaker 3: poke at it all the time.

632
00:47:05,276 --> 00:47:08,836
Speaker 2: And did you think that your persona became the kind

633
00:47:08,876 --> 00:47:13,716
Speaker 2: of spurned woman or is that the role people put

634
00:47:13,756 --> 00:47:13,916
Speaker 2: you in?

635
00:47:14,036 --> 00:47:17,956
Speaker 3: And bet you yeah, yes, spurned woman, that would be

636
00:47:17,996 --> 00:47:23,996
Speaker 3: an assumption that. But then when he became very popular,

637
00:47:24,236 --> 00:47:28,276
Speaker 3: when that then it was more like we want to

638
00:47:28,276 --> 00:47:32,196
Speaker 3: touch you because you're part of the purple of Tom Waits,

639
00:47:32,316 --> 00:47:36,796
Speaker 3: the purple cloth. So at that point is where that

640
00:47:36,836 --> 00:47:38,036
Speaker 3: would probably happen.

641
00:47:38,636 --> 00:47:40,756
Speaker 2: No offense to Tom Waits. He's never been as popular

642
00:47:40,796 --> 00:47:42,396
Speaker 2: as you were, though, oh so.

643
00:47:42,476 --> 00:47:46,276
Speaker 3: Much more, sells so many more tickets, you know, I

644
00:47:46,356 --> 00:47:50,036
Speaker 3: see him as more popular than Bob Dylan. You know,

645
00:47:50,796 --> 00:47:54,036
Speaker 3: there are so many people copying his style. I'm just

646
00:47:54,116 --> 00:47:58,796
Speaker 3: like in awe, how did how did that happens? That's

647
00:47:58,836 --> 00:48:00,356
Speaker 3: what I saw. You didn't see that.

648
00:48:00,436 --> 00:48:02,196
Speaker 2: Never had an album that was as big as your

649
00:48:02,396 --> 00:48:03,436
Speaker 2: first couple albums.

650
00:48:03,596 --> 00:48:06,716
Speaker 3: But I think some cultural thing. I remember the guy

651
00:48:06,756 --> 00:48:10,036
Speaker 3: in nine inch Nails talking of about him when my

652
00:48:10,196 --> 00:48:13,156
Speaker 3: daughter was so probably ninety five or ninety six, and

653
00:48:13,876 --> 00:48:16,516
Speaker 3: that was when he seemed to take on this other

654
00:48:17,596 --> 00:48:23,076
Speaker 3: alternative world status of a golden god. And I was

655
00:48:23,236 --> 00:48:26,916
Speaker 3: one of the women who had touched him. And that

656
00:48:27,116 --> 00:48:30,236
Speaker 3: was the hardest part. That was the hardest time in

657
00:48:30,276 --> 00:48:33,596
Speaker 3: the nineties when people were like, we don't know Avrind,

658
00:48:33,716 --> 00:48:37,036
Speaker 3: but you were Tom Waits's girlfriend, and that we want

659
00:48:37,036 --> 00:48:41,556
Speaker 3: to talk about. Whereas before we love your music and

660
00:48:41,596 --> 00:48:45,556
Speaker 3: you talk to us about your broken heart. But now

661
00:48:45,956 --> 00:48:49,996
Speaker 3: I go, look, it's part of the legend of human beings.

662
00:48:50,116 --> 00:48:53,196
Speaker 3: And when we're gone, we'll still be there together. We're

663
00:48:53,236 --> 00:48:58,476
Speaker 3: one of the lovers. Isn't that wonderful? Come on, you

664
00:48:58,596 --> 00:48:59,356
Speaker 3: gotta love that.

665
00:49:01,316 --> 00:49:03,556
Speaker 1: We'll be back after another quick break with more from

666
00:49:03,596 --> 00:49:10,596
Speaker 1: Bruce Hudlam and Ricky Lee Jones. We're back with the

667
00:49:10,596 --> 00:49:14,036
Speaker 1: rest of Bruce Headlam's conversation with Ricky Lee Jones.

668
00:49:15,116 --> 00:49:17,356
Speaker 2: Can we talk about a couple of your songs? Well,

669
00:49:17,636 --> 00:49:20,556
Speaker 2: you mentioned Company, that that was the song that was

670
00:49:20,596 --> 00:49:22,796
Speaker 2: that Russ that liked Company? Or was that that was

671
00:49:22,836 --> 00:49:25,156
Speaker 2: Reuss Russ? What did he tell you he heard in.

672
00:49:25,116 --> 00:49:29,876
Speaker 3: That He said that Lenny sent this cassette to him,

673
00:49:30,236 --> 00:49:33,836
Speaker 3: which was the demo I made at Warner Brothers, you know,

674
00:49:33,956 --> 00:49:37,436
Speaker 3: to entice him to co produce, because I like, I said,

675
00:49:37,476 --> 00:49:40,356
Speaker 3: I went with Warner Brothers if Lenny would produce me.

676
00:49:41,116 --> 00:49:43,836
Speaker 3: So he said he you know, heard the first couple

677
00:49:43,876 --> 00:49:46,076
Speaker 3: of songs, Chuck is in Love, my dad's song the

678
00:49:46,076 --> 00:49:48,276
Speaker 3: Moon Is Made of Gold, one that didn't get on

679
00:49:48,316 --> 00:49:50,916
Speaker 3: the record called the Real Things Back in Town. And

680
00:49:50,916 --> 00:49:56,156
Speaker 3: then Company, which I wrote with my the only co

681
00:49:56,236 --> 00:50:00,836
Speaker 3: writer I think I've really had, which who is Alfred Johnson.

682
00:50:01,596 --> 00:50:04,596
Speaker 3: He and I wrote that song one night together. The

683
00:50:04,716 --> 00:50:08,756
Speaker 3: story of writing Company was so I had a job

684
00:50:09,636 --> 00:50:14,516
Speaker 3: working for this gangster named Rocky Miller. Rocky was a

685
00:50:14,556 --> 00:50:18,316
Speaker 3: real gangster, and he'd show me his money in his

686
00:50:18,516 --> 00:50:22,356
Speaker 3: sock and he wore garters stays, I guess they're calling,

687
00:50:22,396 --> 00:50:26,076
Speaker 3: I think, And he's a real creep. And he'd make

688
00:50:26,196 --> 00:50:28,796
Speaker 3: me sit on his lap. He'd call me into the

689
00:50:28,836 --> 00:50:31,836
Speaker 3: office and say come over here, and I don't want

690
00:50:31,876 --> 00:50:34,396
Speaker 3: to come over there. He said, come here, I'll fire you.

691
00:50:35,276 --> 00:50:38,996
Speaker 3: And so I'd sit on his lap like an angry teenager,

692
00:50:40,236 --> 00:50:44,396
Speaker 3: which is all you can do in nineteen seventy eight.

693
00:50:45,356 --> 00:50:48,316
Speaker 3: And that was the terrible part of the job. But

694
00:50:48,356 --> 00:50:51,716
Speaker 3: the great part was that I had access to a

695
00:50:52,356 --> 00:50:56,396
Speaker 3: typewriter all day long. And when I had a typewriter,

696
00:50:57,156 --> 00:51:01,796
Speaker 3: another kind of you know, it was like another kind

697
00:51:01,836 --> 00:51:04,916
Speaker 3: of lyric came out. And so I sat there and

698
00:51:04,956 --> 00:51:09,556
Speaker 3: wrote the lyrics to young Blood and Company and the

699
00:51:09,596 --> 00:51:13,036
Speaker 3: beginnings of something else. So I have my little notebook

700
00:51:13,036 --> 00:51:16,596
Speaker 3: and files full of lyric ideas. And I met Alfred

701
00:51:17,156 --> 00:51:21,396
Speaker 3: on the beach in Venice. He was playing some little

702
00:51:21,436 --> 00:51:25,516
Speaker 3: feet maybe I was standing there listening to him, and

703
00:51:25,876 --> 00:51:26,476
Speaker 3: I'll sing.

704
00:51:26,316 --> 00:51:26,956
Speaker 4: A little bit.

705
00:51:29,796 --> 00:51:34,716
Speaker 3: Ah madam singing with him, and he looked at me

706
00:51:34,876 --> 00:51:37,356
Speaker 3: kind of and he said, and so I said, do

707
00:51:37,396 --> 00:51:41,516
Speaker 3: you know any lower nero? And little stars floated out

708
00:51:41,516 --> 00:51:45,276
Speaker 3: of his eyes. And then he invited me over to

709
00:51:45,316 --> 00:51:49,676
Speaker 3: his house, and I said okay, and I got in

710
00:51:49,836 --> 00:51:53,356
Speaker 3: between him and his friend and we drove a mile

711
00:51:53,516 --> 00:51:57,636
Speaker 3: down to Culver City, and then we went into his house,

712
00:51:57,756 --> 00:52:01,036
Speaker 3: which just like I stayed now in this motel right

713
00:52:01,116 --> 00:52:04,396
Speaker 3: by where his house was. And as we walked in

714
00:52:04,476 --> 00:52:09,676
Speaker 3: the door, there were dismembered dolls everywhere, and dolls hanging

715
00:52:09,756 --> 00:52:14,156
Speaker 3: from things and heads here, and right away I went,

716
00:52:14,236 --> 00:52:18,036
Speaker 3: oh cool. And it was like I passed the test

717
00:52:18,196 --> 00:52:21,676
Speaker 3: with them, because you had to decide right away, Are

718
00:52:21,716 --> 00:52:26,036
Speaker 3: you dead or is this some kind of goofy art installation?

719
00:52:27,036 --> 00:52:29,996
Speaker 3: And there were two men, you know so, but I

720
00:52:30,076 --> 00:52:33,756
Speaker 3: was pretty sure he was a kind of odd musician,

721
00:52:34,916 --> 00:52:40,316
Speaker 3: and right away we had this powerful language together. And

722
00:52:40,356 --> 00:52:46,316
Speaker 3: then a few weeks later we wrote Company together, which

723
00:52:46,436 --> 00:52:49,756
Speaker 3: was kind of like having a love affair. By the

724
00:52:49,876 --> 00:52:53,796
Speaker 3: end of the night we were done, but we wrote

725
00:52:53,996 --> 00:53:01,036
Speaker 3: every single bar entwined together. And it's a beautiful odd lyric.

726
00:53:01,196 --> 00:53:04,436
Speaker 3: You know, when I reach across the galaxy, I'll miss

727
00:53:04,476 --> 00:53:07,236
Speaker 3: your company, And in that way it was a little

728
00:53:07,236 --> 00:53:09,436
Speaker 3: different than a regular.

729
00:53:10,716 --> 00:53:11,836
Speaker 4: You're leaving me song.

730
00:53:12,396 --> 00:53:16,436
Speaker 3: That's one of the only straight ahead lyrics I wrote

731
00:53:16,476 --> 00:53:19,756
Speaker 3: about you and what you're doing and how I feel.

732
00:53:20,476 --> 00:53:24,396
Speaker 3: Normally I would have made up some guy somebody's name

733
00:53:25,116 --> 00:53:26,196
Speaker 3: and how she feels.

734
00:53:26,396 --> 00:53:29,636
Speaker 2: She has an old fashioned quality, though it has a book.

735
00:53:29,796 --> 00:53:32,476
Speaker 3: Quality for that. At that time, we you know, we

736
00:53:32,556 --> 00:53:36,196
Speaker 3: were writing thinking maybe we'd get these songs to famous people.

737
00:53:36,876 --> 00:53:39,996
Speaker 3: Chucky's in Love was kind of aimed at Bette Midler,

738
00:53:40,596 --> 00:53:44,036
Speaker 3: and Company was aimed at Frank Sinatra. And when I

739
00:53:44,036 --> 00:53:48,716
Speaker 3: got signed, I told Moe Austin, who was a good

740
00:53:48,796 --> 00:53:52,596
Speaker 3: friend when I was there, and Lenny, would you take

741
00:53:52,636 --> 00:53:55,196
Speaker 3: this to Frank because they'd fly over to the desert

742
00:53:55,516 --> 00:53:58,596
Speaker 3: for these meetings, you know. So they said, we're taking

743
00:53:58,636 --> 00:54:02,196
Speaker 3: it to Frank and then they didn't tell me when.

744
00:54:02,916 --> 00:54:05,196
Speaker 3: So what happened? Is he going to do it? And

745
00:54:05,236 --> 00:54:09,436
Speaker 3: they said, you don't want him to do it, said

746
00:54:09,636 --> 00:54:12,356
Speaker 3: he can't hit those notes anymore. I don't know if

747
00:54:12,356 --> 00:54:14,236
Speaker 3: I just say this on the air, But the other

748
00:54:14,236 --> 00:54:17,156
Speaker 3: one said, and anyway, he went to publishing for anything

749
00:54:17,196 --> 00:54:18,996
Speaker 3: he does, so I don't know if you want him,

750
00:54:19,316 --> 00:54:22,076
Speaker 3: he won't even consider doing it unless he has the publishing.

751
00:54:22,276 --> 00:54:22,756
Speaker 2: Is that right?

752
00:54:22,996 --> 00:54:24,796
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's what they said.

753
00:54:25,276 --> 00:54:27,676
Speaker 2: Okay, because I guess he had his own writers anybody.

754
00:54:27,796 --> 00:54:32,996
Speaker 3: You know, it's it's greed. Yes, But when you're that powerful,

755
00:54:33,356 --> 00:54:37,756
Speaker 3: if he records the song, the world will hear it. Yes,

756
00:54:37,956 --> 00:54:40,996
Speaker 3: So what is a publisher anyway? They're the guy who's

757
00:54:40,996 --> 00:54:44,676
Speaker 3: supposed to bring the song to the world, and they

758
00:54:44,716 --> 00:54:47,756
Speaker 3: should get their half of the penny if they do

759
00:54:47,916 --> 00:54:52,716
Speaker 3: that job. We Folky's bought our own publishing. But also

760
00:54:53,356 --> 00:54:56,956
Speaker 3: it didn't make our songs anybody, So you know, everybody

761
00:54:56,996 --> 00:55:00,276
Speaker 3: had said you must keep your publishing as you age.

762
00:55:00,356 --> 00:55:03,396
Speaker 3: It's going to be the only way you keep making money.

763
00:55:03,876 --> 00:55:06,636
Speaker 3: And of course they were right, but I probably, you know,

764
00:55:06,676 --> 00:55:09,396
Speaker 3: with Alfred's permission, would have given up the public sing

765
00:55:09,476 --> 00:55:13,036
Speaker 3: on that if Frank, I mean that at least it

766
00:55:13,036 --> 00:55:14,076
Speaker 3: seems from here.

767
00:55:13,956 --> 00:55:15,836
Speaker 2: That I might have that. Were you always a fan

768
00:55:16,316 --> 00:55:16,796
Speaker 2: of Frank?

769
00:55:16,956 --> 00:55:20,956
Speaker 3: Yes, oh, yes, yes always. My father was a singer.

770
00:55:21,756 --> 00:55:24,876
Speaker 3: The timber and style of him is like the Mills

771
00:55:24,916 --> 00:55:30,196
Speaker 3: Brothers and Frank Sinatra, and my mom had a you know,

772
00:55:30,436 --> 00:55:35,276
Speaker 3: schoolgirl crush on him, so he, more than any other singer,

773
00:55:35,956 --> 00:55:38,516
Speaker 3: felt like he was telling my story when he sang

774
00:55:38,956 --> 00:55:45,116
Speaker 3: any woman, anybody, until I heard the Beatles, whose collective

775
00:55:45,156 --> 00:55:49,916
Speaker 3: harmony was otherworldly to me. But those were my two

776
00:55:50,116 --> 00:55:54,836
Speaker 3: main guardian angels initially. Then you know, expanded.

777
00:55:54,716 --> 00:55:58,196
Speaker 2: Throughout your career. You've done cover records, you tend not

778
00:55:58,236 --> 00:56:01,636
Speaker 2: to mix them with originals. Yeah, you've done rebel, Rebel

779
00:56:01,836 --> 00:56:06,796
Speaker 2: you did for no One. So tell me about this album,

780
00:56:06,876 --> 00:56:09,956
Speaker 2: how it came about? Yes, why the songs? And is

781
00:56:09,996 --> 00:56:12,276
Speaker 2: there a story you're telling with these songs.

782
00:56:12,676 --> 00:56:15,876
Speaker 3: There's not a story I'm telling with them. They were

783
00:56:15,956 --> 00:56:21,596
Speaker 3: picked because I could sing them well and I wanted

784
00:56:21,596 --> 00:56:25,356
Speaker 3: people to know I was a jazz singer. But there

785
00:56:25,436 --> 00:56:28,116
Speaker 3: was a journalist a couple of weeks. This is important

786
00:56:28,196 --> 00:56:30,836
Speaker 3: to me because I hadn't really gotten this feedback. So

787
00:56:30,956 --> 00:56:32,996
Speaker 3: clearly there was a journalist a couple of weeks ago

788
00:56:33,036 --> 00:56:36,636
Speaker 3: who said, I saw you in Cleveland in nineteen seventy nine,

789
00:56:36,676 --> 00:56:40,356
Speaker 3: and you opened with Chuck's in Love and we were going,

790
00:56:40,556 --> 00:56:44,436
Speaker 3: what is she got to do now? And then you

791
00:56:44,956 --> 00:56:51,956
Speaker 3: introduced us to Dinah Washington and Billie Holiday and Saramon

792
00:56:52,836 --> 00:56:56,836
Speaker 3: and I was like, there, it is what I waited

793
00:56:56,876 --> 00:56:59,836
Speaker 3: all my life to hear, and heard it here there.

794
00:57:00,636 --> 00:57:03,796
Speaker 3: So that's as important that long ago, in the long

795
00:57:03,836 --> 00:57:09,236
Speaker 3: ago history. I was singing it peers or love it,

796
00:57:10,356 --> 00:57:15,916
Speaker 3: but the jazz world said, you are not allowed in here,

797
00:57:16,796 --> 00:57:18,476
Speaker 3: you cannot enter.

798
00:57:21,356 --> 00:57:23,956
Speaker 2: Did you feel that you bet? You early in your.

799
00:57:23,836 --> 00:57:29,436
Speaker 3: Career, and I've figured out I think partially you know,

800
00:57:29,756 --> 00:57:33,316
Speaker 3: because there are unusual First of all, women are are

801
00:57:33,436 --> 00:57:37,956
Speaker 3: the last person allowed in the room. Singers and women singers.

802
00:57:38,236 --> 00:57:44,556
Speaker 3: But if you didn't only sing jazz, you can't come in.

803
00:57:45,316 --> 00:57:49,116
Speaker 3: If you sang a pop song, you can't come in.

804
00:57:50,076 --> 00:57:54,236
Speaker 3: You have to have exclusively devoted yourself to this one

805
00:57:54,316 --> 00:57:57,756
Speaker 3: discipline or you can't come in. I called the jazz

806
00:57:57,756 --> 00:58:00,956
Speaker 3: station and long beached in your disgustard? Would you play

807
00:58:01,036 --> 00:58:03,596
Speaker 3: Rickney Jones highly Hi Lo said no, we don't play

808
00:58:03,676 --> 00:58:08,116
Speaker 3: Rickin Jones. Okay said, like on the wall behind it,

809
00:58:08,276 --> 00:58:08,836
Speaker 3: we don't.

810
00:58:09,196 --> 00:58:13,676
Speaker 2: I regularly do your picture with a big excid Yeah.

811
00:58:12,916 --> 00:58:18,036
Speaker 3: And you know it hurt. It always hurts to people go, yeah,

812
00:58:18,076 --> 00:58:21,196
Speaker 3: we've decided what you are no matter what you do.

813
00:58:22,396 --> 00:58:27,916
Speaker 3: So I did jazzy songs with some pop in him.

814
00:58:28,396 --> 00:58:31,956
Speaker 3: I was mixed it up a little bit and after

815
00:58:32,316 --> 00:58:36,956
Speaker 3: pop pop, which got a really weird reviews. You know,

816
00:58:38,516 --> 00:58:42,116
Speaker 3: it was my fortieth birthday and one of the great

817
00:58:42,396 --> 00:58:48,436
Speaker 3: bebop players, Joe Henderson, had played on two songs. He

818
00:58:48,556 --> 00:58:51,116
Speaker 3: came to the party and at a moment took me

819
00:58:51,156 --> 00:58:53,796
Speaker 3: aside and said, I just wanted to tell you that

820
00:58:53,916 --> 00:58:58,556
Speaker 3: I was sorry to see that you didn't make another record,

821
00:58:59,716 --> 00:59:04,556
Speaker 3: because I really thought you were onto something. And it

822
00:59:04,636 --> 00:59:08,036
Speaker 3: was a revelation because this is from a musician and

823
00:59:08,076 --> 00:59:14,516
Speaker 3: you're listening to critics. Stop it. So it took a

824
00:59:14,556 --> 00:59:19,636
Speaker 3: long time, and for whatever reason, I found myself thinking

825
00:59:19,636 --> 00:59:23,436
Speaker 3: about res titleman, and I need to be in the

826
00:59:23,516 --> 00:59:28,276
Speaker 3: loving care of a real producer who not only knows

827
00:59:28,316 --> 00:59:31,996
Speaker 3: what they're doing, but loves the sound of my voice.

828
00:59:32,116 --> 00:59:35,396
Speaker 3: And I looked him up. I was thinking we would

829
00:59:35,796 --> 00:59:39,156
Speaker 3: maybe work on some of my new material, but he said,

830
00:59:39,516 --> 00:59:41,356
Speaker 3: I want to do a jazz I want to do

831
00:59:41,396 --> 00:59:45,716
Speaker 3: a jazz record. You have not done the American Songbook.

832
00:59:46,156 --> 00:59:49,516
Speaker 3: That's what we're going to do. And so I said, okay,

833
00:59:50,636 --> 00:59:57,156
Speaker 3: and we began to exchange ideas. But what happened was

834
00:59:58,356 --> 01:00:02,276
Speaker 3: I knew in the last two years that my voice

835
01:00:02,396 --> 01:00:06,556
Speaker 3: has begun to change a little because of aging, not

836
01:00:06,636 --> 01:00:08,796
Speaker 3: a lot, and I don't smoke it to take good

837
01:00:08,796 --> 01:00:13,396
Speaker 3: care of but it was thinning here and tired there.

838
01:00:14,316 --> 01:00:18,436
Speaker 3: And jazz is the most demanding, I think, because you

839
01:00:18,476 --> 01:00:23,036
Speaker 3: can in other things. You can yell, you put that

840
01:00:23,156 --> 01:00:24,836
Speaker 3: up in the back of the throat and hit anything.

841
01:00:24,876 --> 01:00:28,476
Speaker 3: But if you're going to do quiet stuff, what seemed

842
01:00:28,516 --> 01:00:33,556
Speaker 3: to happen when I started, is this this other quiettitude

843
01:00:34,356 --> 01:00:39,236
Speaker 3: that was a little bit, you know, saucy and sensual.

844
01:00:39,596 --> 01:00:42,916
Speaker 3: She just stepped right up to the microphone and she

845
01:00:44,116 --> 01:00:45,756
Speaker 3: just what she was doing.

846
01:00:45,836 --> 01:00:47,476
Speaker 4: Like, who is this?

847
01:00:48,396 --> 01:00:51,556
Speaker 3: I love her voice, it's got a lower thing. But

848
01:00:52,796 --> 01:00:57,556
Speaker 3: right away I heard the command that I prayed i'd

849
01:00:57,636 --> 01:01:01,396
Speaker 3: have and didn't expect, and there it was, so we

850
01:01:01,476 --> 01:01:06,796
Speaker 3: made an extraordinary record that's kind of magic. We went

851
01:01:06,876 --> 01:01:10,676
Speaker 3: full circle back to the time we left off our

852
01:01:10,956 --> 01:01:16,436
Speaker 3: professional relationship at Pirates. It's not like Pirates, but something

853
01:01:16,756 --> 01:01:20,436
Speaker 3: in the power of what happens when we work together

854
01:01:20,796 --> 01:01:24,596
Speaker 3: was there. I think it stands well next to any

855
01:01:24,676 --> 01:01:29,116
Speaker 3: beloved vocal work from the fifties or sixties here so

856
01:01:29,716 --> 01:01:37,156
Speaker 3: because there's a feeling of sensual love and humor and

857
01:01:37,236 --> 01:01:40,996
Speaker 3: all the things that you can get if you survive.

858
01:01:41,556 --> 01:01:47,196
Speaker 3: I'm sixty nine this year. If you survive, you can

859
01:01:47,236 --> 01:01:49,876
Speaker 3: bring all this stuff to your life and then bring

860
01:01:49,916 --> 01:01:52,236
Speaker 3: it to the sound of your voice into music. And

861
01:01:52,276 --> 01:01:56,716
Speaker 3: I think that's what's there, is humor and the love

862
01:01:56,756 --> 01:02:00,756
Speaker 3: of life and the idea that we're singing, you know

863
01:02:00,796 --> 01:02:03,036
Speaker 3: now for ourselves anymore. We're not going to be here

864
01:02:03,076 --> 01:02:06,236
Speaker 3: to you know, and maybe I will, but I'm singing

865
01:02:06,276 --> 01:02:10,436
Speaker 3: now for others and reaching out right.

866
01:02:10,796 --> 01:02:12,996
Speaker 2: That's a great place to stop. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: That was just wonderful.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to Ricky Lee Jones for playing and reminiscing about

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Speaker 1: her career with Bruce Headland. You can hear all of

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Speaker 1: our favorite Ricky Lee Jones songs on a playlist at

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Speaker 1: broken Record podcast dot com. You can subscribe to our

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Speaker 1: YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast,

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01:02:33,676 --> 01:02:37,116
Speaker 1: where you can find all of our new episodes. Broken

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01:02:37,156 --> 01:02:40,316
Speaker 1: Record is produced with help from Lea Rose, Jason Gambrell,

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01:02:40,596 --> 01:02:45,716
Speaker 1: Ben Taliday, Nisha Venkutt, Jordan McMillan, and Eric sam Our.

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01:02:45,836 --> 01:02:50,076
Speaker 1: Editor is Sophie Crane. Broken Record is a production of

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01:02:50,156 --> 01:02:53,316
Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin,

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01:02:53,476 --> 01:02:58,076
Speaker 1: consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast

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01:02:58,116 --> 01:03:02,076
Speaker 1: subscription service that offers bonus content and uninterrupted ad free

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01:03:02,116 --> 01:03:05,596
Speaker 1: listening for only four ninety nine a month. Look for

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01:03:05,636 --> 01:03:09,756
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions, and if you like

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01:03:09,836 --> 01:03:12,396
Speaker 1: this show, remember to share, rate, and review us on

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01:03:12,436 --> 01:03:16,036
Speaker 1: your podcast stat or the musics by Canna Beats. I'm

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Speaker 1: Justin Richman.