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Speaker 1: Hello everybody. Once again, this is Connor Hall, the producer

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Speaker 1: for Wrongful Conviction, filling in for Jason Vlahm. I hope

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Speaker 1: you enjoy it. On February twenty fourth, nineteen ninety eight,

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Speaker 1: eighty four year old Minnesotan Evelyn Mallin was discovered in

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Speaker 1: her ransacked bedroom, strangled and beaten to death. Her small

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Speaker 1: apartment was attached to her convenience store, but the store

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Speaker 1: was undisturbed, including any signs of forced entry. There was

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Speaker 1: a broken basement window, but it appeared to have been

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Speaker 1: broken from the inside out. Yet, instead of focusing on

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Speaker 1: personal or business relations with access to keys, the investigation

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Speaker 1: targeted an Indigenous man named Brian Pippott and four of

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Speaker 1: his male relatives, despite no evidence connecting them to the scene,

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Speaker 1: credible alibis, and an equally incredible theory of guilt. One

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Speaker 1: of them made a statement. Two more pled. One was acquitted,

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Speaker 1: but Brian wasn't so lucky. This is wrongful conviction.

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Speaker 2: Wrongful conviction has always given voice to innocent people in prison,

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Speaker 2: and now we're expanding that voice to you. Call us

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Speaker 2: at eight three, three, two oh seven, four six sixty

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Speaker 2: six and tell us how these stories make you feel

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Speaker 2: and what you've done to help the cause, even if

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Speaker 2: it's something as simple as telling a friend or sharing

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Speaker 2: on social media, and you might just hear yourself in

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Speaker 2: a future episode call us eight three three, two oh

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Speaker 2: seven four six sixty six.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction, where we have a story

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Speaker 1: about a group of indigenous men about an hour's drive

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Speaker 1: north of Minneapolis, Saint Paul, the Malax Band of Vojaboy

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Speaker 1: to be exact, but the theory of their involvement and

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Speaker 1: the murder was so lazy and full of holes that

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Speaker 1: authorities must have known it was also full of something else.

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Speaker 1: And joining us to tell his story, still in Minnesota

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Speaker 1: prison is Brian Pippott. Welcome Brian, and to help tell

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Speaker 1: this story an attorney and investigator from probably the original

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Speaker 1: innocence organization in this country, Centurion Ministries. Jim Cousins Welcome well,

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Speaker 1: thank you, and before we even begin with Brian's personal history,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to recognize the history of the Malax Band

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Speaker 1: of Ojibweh as well as their relations throughout the area,

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Speaker 1: whose roots are on the East coast, but as Europeans

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Speaker 1: began their continental conquest about five hundred years ago, the

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Speaker 1: Ojibwe were forced into a nomadic lifestyle. They eventually allied

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Speaker 1: themselves with the French in the Seven Years War, a

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Speaker 1: relationship evidenced even by the name Lacks. It's French for

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Speaker 1: a Thousand Lakes, a reference to the Great Lakes area

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Speaker 1: in which the Jojubwe eventually settled a little over two

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Speaker 1: hundred years ago, and where they were later recognized by

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Speaker 1: the US government as a sovereign nation. Spread among various reservations,

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Speaker 1: some of which were in Aitkin County, Minnesota.

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Speaker 3: Well, Aikin County includes the town or city of Aiken itself,

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Speaker 3: and about twenty miles from there is a town called McGregor.

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Speaker 3: That's where there's a small Native American reservation called the

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Speaker 3: Sandy Lake Reservation. I understand that there's a fair degree

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Speaker 3: of tension between the white community, law enforcement authorities from

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Speaker 3: the Aiken County Sheriff's office, and the Native American community.

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Speaker 1: That tension has made headlines in recent years as the

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Speaker 1: current sheriff, Daniel Gaida, it appears, has accepted financial support

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Speaker 1: from an oil conglomerate called Enbridge, and then it just

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Speaker 1: so happens that protesters were treated pretty roughly for seeking

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Speaker 1: to protect clean drinking water in the area where Brian

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Speaker 1: was raised.

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Speaker 4: List McGregor, mister two of malaccs the Sandy Lake Indian Reservation.

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Speaker 4: We moved up in the late eighties to Sandy Lake

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Speaker 4: and a mother. She rented a parcel land up there

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Speaker 4: for a dollar for fifty years and had a house built.

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Speaker 4: She kept adding on to the house. She wanted a

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Speaker 4: place for everyone, and we all lived in alsos around

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Speaker 4: the Sandy Lake area. Had some brothers and they have

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Speaker 4: all passed, and we had some good times going swimming

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Speaker 4: in the lakes, going fishing, going hunt trapping with my

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Speaker 4: uncles in the wintertime, harvesting deer, using everything of the

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Speaker 4: tier and giving thanks for the deer, and offering tobacco.

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Speaker 1: Despite ugly efforts to the contrary, the Ojuboy and other

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Speaker 1: Indigenous nations have been able to maintain their culture and

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Speaker 1: self governance well. Folks like Ojiboy Elder Marge Anderson were

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Speaker 1: able to make strides for their nations with the US government,

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Speaker 1: like the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act of nineteen eighty eight,

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Speaker 1: which brought much needed economic opportunities to their nation. In fact,

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Speaker 1: on February twenty third, nineteen ninety eight, Brian had accompanied

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Speaker 1: his nephew, Michael mus Squattis to an interview at one

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Speaker 1: of those casinos.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Mike Squads my sister Anita's son. He had a

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Speaker 4: job interview that day and upon the radio for I

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Speaker 4: don't know, thirty dollars or something for some extra money

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Speaker 4: to go to a casino. I didn't drive at that

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Speaker 4: time that I had a ride with him and my

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Speaker 4: other nephew, Brandon.

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Speaker 1: By all accounts, the trio returned to the area around

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Speaker 1: eight thirty PM, and Brian was home for the night

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Speaker 1: by ten. Then the following morning, February twenty fourth, nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety eight, eighty four year old Evelyn Mallin's body was

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Speaker 1: to discovered in her bedroom in nearby tiny Shamrock Township.

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Speaker 3: The building is very small and houses not only her bedroom,

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Speaker 3: but also a little convenience store that has some three

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Speaker 3: point two beer and cigarettes and other sundry items. And

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Speaker 3: piecing together some of the witness testimony, she's probably murdered

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Speaker 3: the night before, sometime between ten and ten thirty in

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Speaker 3: the morning, her daughter, Norma Horner went to the store

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Speaker 3: with her boyfriend Gerald Horsemen, and they knocked on the door.

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Speaker 3: They knocked on the windows, they didn't get a response.

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Speaker 3: They went around to the back door. There was a

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Speaker 3: skeleton key broken off from the inside of the back door,

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Speaker 3: so they couldn't open it, so they called nine to

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Speaker 3: one one Aiken County Sheriff's Department. Kicking the back door,

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Speaker 3: they find Evelyn Male and the victim in her bedroom.

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Speaker 3: That she was strangled and beaten rather savagely, and there

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Speaker 3: was fecal matter on her too. Now that may have

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Speaker 3: been that she evacuated as a result of being strangled

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Speaker 3: and beaten, but there's some other theories that who the

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Speaker 3: ever of the assailant was took some vehicle matter from

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Speaker 3: a little there's a bowl, I mean, there's no indoor

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Speaker 3: plumbing in the store and through that on her. I

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Speaker 3: don't know whether that's true or not. But they didn't

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Speaker 3: see her immediately because her bedroom was ransacked. Things are

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Speaker 3: thrown all over the place, and she was tossed off

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Speaker 3: her ben There was a mattress on top of her.

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Speaker 3: And then they went around throughout the building. They noted

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Speaker 3: that the front and door locks were locked. They noted

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Speaker 3: that a basement window was broken, and the store portion

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Speaker 3: is utterly untouched.

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Speaker 4: The back room was ripped apart, like whoever did that

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Speaker 4: was looking for something particular.

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Speaker 3: Thereafter, they interviewed Gerald Horseman and Norma Horner. Gerald Horseman

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Speaker 3: was responsible for some of the inventory in the little store,

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Speaker 3: and he told them at the time that there was

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Speaker 3: no beer, no cigarettes missing. Subsequently, Merle Maylon, the victim's son,

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Speaker 3: came up from his home in New Mexico several days

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Speaker 3: after the murder. Theoretically there was some cash in a

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Speaker 3: white envelope that she used to keep that he thought

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Speaker 3: was missing.

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Speaker 1: Initially, Gerald Horseman thought so too, as well as a checkbook,

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Speaker 1: but both turned up. Yet Merle Mallin continued to allege

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Speaker 1: that other items were missing.

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Speaker 4: There was a mention of guns missing, biers, televisions, all

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Speaker 4: kinds of stuff, and they were flying over the reservation

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Speaker 4: looking in swamps for the stuff. And then oh no,

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Speaker 4: this wasn't missing. Miss was a missing. Messing was missing.

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Speaker 4: At trial he said, oh, we found them money.

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Speaker 1: But Merle Malan has always maintained that beer, cigarettes, and

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Speaker 1: a gun were stolen, which propped up the state's theory

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Speaker 1: a robbery turned homicide. Despite what Horsemen, who actually kept

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Speaker 1: the store's inventory has maintained all along that the store

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Speaker 1: was undisturbed and no store items were missing. Interestingly, one

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Speaker 1: of the alternative suspects was Merle's son, Mark Mallan.

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Speaker 3: The mourning of the murder, relatives actually pointed toward her grandson,

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Speaker 3: Mark Maelon and he would help her at the store too,

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Speaker 3: so he had access to the store and said that

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Speaker 3: he could be violent, particularly was on something, and that

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Speaker 3: Evelyn Malan used to give him money, and a couple

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Speaker 3: of weeks before this incident, Mark Maelan asked her for

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Speaker 3: four or five hundred dollars and it was one of

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Speaker 3: the first times when she had refused him money. Others

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Speaker 3: subsequently had said, we know that he's been rough with

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Speaker 3: his grandmother before and he knows where she hides money

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Speaker 3: in the store, but law enforcement didn't really follow up

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Speaker 3: on that thread. Another alternative suspect was a man by

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Speaker 3: the name of Terry Peat. He evidently was somebody that

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Speaker 3: Evelyn Maylen was afraid of, and she expressed that fear

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Speaker 3: to some others that bad news is back in town.

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Speaker 3: He had been released from being incarcerated, and he had

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Speaker 3: asked her to buy some pro pain on credit. And

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Speaker 3: she had refused. He subsequently perished when his trailer caught fire.

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Speaker 3: Several months later.

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Speaker 1: But before the death of Terry Pete, as well as

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Speaker 1: the specter of missing cash and dissipated, the rumor mill

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Speaker 1: in Aiken County was quite active.

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Speaker 3: There were rampant rumors, some of which are clearly untrue,

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Speaker 3: that the assailants cut off her finger to take her

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Speaker 3: ring off her, the assailants sexually assaulted her. I heard

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Speaker 3: it was the Miss Squades. I heard it was this person.

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Speaker 3: I heard it was that person. And so mister Bijurga

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Speaker 3: from the BCA, which is the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension

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Speaker 3: the equivalent of an FBI for the state, and Bruce

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Speaker 3: Beck from the Aiken County Sheriff's Office went over to

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Speaker 3: interview Michael MSS Squaddes, Keith MS. Squades, and Brandon Miss

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Speaker 3: Squades as well. They are all the nephews of Brian Pippott.

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Speaker 3: This is within I think a week of the murder.

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Speaker 4: And they looked at Keith and checked his body for

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Speaker 4: scrapes from Mars. He didn't have any, and they asked

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Speaker 4: him where he was he was at home and Mike

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Speaker 4: where he was.

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Speaker 3: Michael Musquad says, what day is this now, Oh, that

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Speaker 3: was the day I had my interview down at the

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Speaker 3: Grand Casino. Brandon and my uncle Brian Piptt went with

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Speaker 3: me as well. The authorities knew this now. They later

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Speaker 3: interrogated Brandon Misquattis, who was fifteen at the time, in

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Speaker 3: a very coercive interview where they kept saying to him,

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Speaker 3: we know you were there. Your relatives have said you

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Speaker 3: were there. Come clean, and he said, no, I wasn't there.

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Speaker 3: I wasn't there. I was at the casino. They later

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Speaker 3: acknowledged that his alibi was correct. So that's the same

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Speaker 3: alibi that Brian Pippott has. So the alibi was established

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Speaker 3: quite early on.

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Speaker 1: Nevertheless, after a year had gone by, Terry Pete had passed,

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Speaker 1: while Merle Mallin kept the specter of a robbery alive

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Speaker 1: and the rumor mill led investigators to Brian Pippott, his

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Speaker 1: nephews Raymond and Keith Musquattis, as well as his cousins

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Speaker 1: Neil King and Don Hill.

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Speaker 3: Right after an award had been offered, Don Hill started

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Speaker 3: a rumor that Brian Pippott said something along the lines

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Speaker 3: of oh, she was already dead when I went in there,

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Speaker 3: And then eventually Don Hill starts naming a few of

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Speaker 3: these people that ultimately are selected as the assailants. And

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Speaker 3: as they started to narrow down some of these rumors,

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Speaker 3: they used tactics of saying to one so and so

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Speaker 3: said you were there. Now you need to help yourself

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Speaker 3: by saying you were there and admitting to things, and

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Speaker 3: the first person to the trough gets the best meal

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Speaker 3: or something.

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Speaker 4: That was the line they used, yes live, threatening all

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Speaker 4: your younger kids with long term prison ten and.

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Speaker 3: So there was a carousel of interrogations of various people

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Speaker 3: until they got somebody to say, okay, I was there,

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Speaker 3: and that was Raymond Musquaddes. He had a couple of

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Speaker 3: felonies pending, and there had been some rumors about him

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Speaker 3: being there and not being there, and he is recanted

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Speaker 3: completely and fully, genuinely, in detail and with specificity, and

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Speaker 3: if you look at his various statements, I actually have

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Speaker 3: a chart as to how they changed over time, you

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Speaker 3: can tell he wasn't there.

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Speaker 1: Raymond first said that around seven pm they arrived at

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Speaker 1: the Dollar Lake store and Brian had kicked in the

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Speaker 1: front door, both elements not true. So his story had

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Speaker 1: to change alongside the state's narrative until they were the same.

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Speaker 3: The state's theory is that these five men were driving

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Speaker 3: around drunk and decided that they were going to go

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Speaker 3: to the Dollar Lake store. The store was closed with

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Speaker 3: the allegation is that Keith Musquades was able to get

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Speaker 3: through a basement window, which by the way, would have

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Speaker 3: entailed removing panes of glass with the little pieces of

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Speaker 3: wood that separate the panes, reaching in and removing two

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Speaker 3: wooden slats that were nailed across the window, squeeze down

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Speaker 3: through the window, walk across a sandy basement floor, come

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Speaker 3: up through a trapdoor, which, as far as we know,

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Speaker 3: he would have no idea existed.

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Speaker 4: Everybody forgets to mention that there was a chair on

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Speaker 4: top of that trap door and it was wedged up

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Speaker 4: against the window sill. It was in the police report

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Speaker 4: that the police removed the chair from a trap door

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Speaker 4: to get down.

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Speaker 1: To the basement, so the back door was inoperable, the

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Speaker 1: front door was dead bolted shut, and their suspects didn't

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Speaker 1: have access to keys. Yet, this basement entry theory was

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Speaker 1: still chosen despite its impossibility, and I guess since the

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Speaker 1: front door was definitely not kicked in. Raymond changed his

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Speaker 1: story from Brian kicking in the front door to an

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Speaker 1: intoxicated Keith musquattis wiggling through a jagged basement window. And

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Speaker 1: remember they examined him just days after the crime, and

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Speaker 1: he didn't have a scratch.

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Speaker 3: He said that Keith Musquades cut himself going through the window,

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Speaker 3: but Keith Msquades had no cuts on him. There's no

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Speaker 3: evidence anywhere that anyone went through that window, no fabric,

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Speaker 3: no blood, no skin. There is some cat blood, so

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Speaker 3: I guess a cat couldn't get through there without cutting itself.

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Speaker 3: So he theoretically comes up opens up the trap door.

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Speaker 3: Raymond says that they all came in and out through

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Speaker 3: the front door, But we now know that the front

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Speaker 3: door was locked with a dead bolt, that you needed

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Speaker 3: a key to operate.

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Speaker 1: Even with the alleged gymnastics, the theory still doesn't work

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Speaker 1: without a front door key. But not according to BCA

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Speaker 1: investigator David Bjurga.

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Speaker 3: Mister Bjurga was questioned about that locked at the grand jury.

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Speaker 3: He was asked, you can't get in and out of

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Speaker 3: that door without locking the dead bold? Is that right?

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Speaker 3: He said, well, that's right. We don't believe it was locked.

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Speaker 3: Why do you think that, Well, because Raymond squads and

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Speaker 3: Don Hill said they went through the door, so it

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Speaker 3: couldn't have been locked. Well, that's completely circular logic. That's

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Speaker 3: not saying anything about the forensics or the physics of

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Speaker 3: the scene.

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Speaker 4: Again with the door, prosscutter on around and evaded the question, said, well,

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Speaker 4: I can't go into that because it's from the whole investigation.

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Speaker 3: The theory on the door was that the dead bolt

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Speaker 3: lock wasn't really locked. That was just the lock on

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Speaker 3: the door handle that you could lock by pulling it shut.

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Speaker 3: There's no merit to that whatsoever. The first responders all

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Speaker 3: reported that door locked. The crime scene photograph shows that

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Speaker 3: the dead bolt door locked. I had a forensic locksmith

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Speaker 3: examined that photograph. He said, that's clearly a dead bolt

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Speaker 3: and it's clearly locked. And when they took photographs of

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Speaker 3: the lock when they disassembled it, they didn't show the

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Speaker 3: actual bolt portion of it because that would show you

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Speaker 3: that what you see in that photograph a dead bolt

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Speaker 3: clearly locked. There's no real getting around that. Now they've

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Speaker 3: lost the lock.

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Speaker 1: However, Raymond was not aware of those damning specifics in

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Speaker 1: real life or in the statements he was making.

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Speaker 3: He said that he stayed in the car but he

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Speaker 3: heard a crash. They come out with beer and cigarettes,

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Speaker 3: and Brian comes out with some kind of bag with

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Speaker 3: what they thought was a weapon in it, and the

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Speaker 3: theory is that they then went back to Raymond's father's

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Speaker 3: house and Keith Musquades and Brian Pippott confessed that they

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Speaker 3: had killed Evelyn malon Or when she came out of

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Speaker 3: her bedroom, but she didn't come out of her.

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Speaker 1: Bedroom, according to other interviewees. BCA investigator David Bijerga routinely

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Speaker 1: inserted this unfounded element into his questioning that the victim

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Speaker 1: had discovered the assailants in the store and so they

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Speaker 1: had to put her down, but the store was undisturbed,

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Speaker 1: no signs of a struggle, according to both police reports

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Speaker 1: and Gerald Horseman, who also maintained that no store items

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Speaker 1: were missing. But instead Raymond conformed his statement to include

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Speaker 1: unsubstantiated claims from Merle Mallin, the father of the only

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Speaker 1: alternative suspect, about a stolen gun, cigarettes and beer. Mallin

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Speaker 1: also testified that his mother wasn't able to lock the door,

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Speaker 1: something that it appears he forgot, he had said when

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Speaker 1: interviewed years later by a post conviction investigator, and again

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Speaker 1: at a two thousand and six PCR hearing when he

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Speaker 1: said that she could in fact lock the door. And

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Speaker 1: there's even more nonsense to unravel.

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Speaker 3: Ramus Squade said they went to an abandoned house that

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Speaker 3: used to be his father's on the Sandy Lake Reservation,

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Speaker 3: which was probably abandoned the last time he had been

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Speaker 3: there years ago, but has since been remodeled and had

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Speaker 3: residents in it. He said that they were all driving

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Speaker 3: a gold Toronado, but no such car existed, so almost nothing,

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Speaker 3: he said, matched with reality.

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Speaker 4: That was a reference that was a year later or something,

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Speaker 4: and it was a significant time for me to remember anything.

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Speaker 4: So I told him, well, I don't know where I was.

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Speaker 4: And it wasn't until I read the report and my

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Speaker 4: mother came to visit me, and she said, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's that day that I had loaned a vent for

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Speaker 4: the job interview and then you wrote along and I said,

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Speaker 4: oh yeah, okay, well I would have a pond ticket

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Speaker 4: for that data. And I called my investigator and he

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Speaker 4: went over there and he's sure enough, there was that

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Speaker 4: pon ticket. And it wasn't until later on that I

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Speaker 4: was getting the discovery papers that I realized that the

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Speaker 4: fat Mike and Brandon and my mother all confirmed my alibi.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in all likelihood this was you know, somebody that

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Speaker 1: was related to her or had access to a key, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I remember sitting in the shell and reading a

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Speaker 4: discovery and I said, huh, this is an inside job.

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Speaker 4: And the police didn't pick up on that. They didn't

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Speaker 4: pick up on the doors being locked, didn't pick up

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Speaker 4: on the chair being on top of the trap door,

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Speaker 4: even the tops he had report, Well, this person had

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Speaker 4: a lot of anger towards.

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Speaker 1: Her, But that, along with the gaping holes in Raymond's

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Speaker 1: and the state's narrative, appear to have been ignored, as

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Speaker 1: Raymond was offered five years and his other charges dropped

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Speaker 1: to become the state star witness against his four relatives.

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Speaker 3: Keith Msquades, Brian and Neil King denied having anything to

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Speaker 3: do with it, and deny that to this day. They

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Speaker 3: did get a sort of confession from Don Hill, except

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Speaker 3: for it kept changing and changing and changing. He was

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Speaker 3: going to testify and he would get five years and

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Speaker 3: they would forgive some sexual assault pilonies. He never did

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Speaker 3: testify because they recognized that nothing this guy said was true,

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Speaker 3: even though he still got the deal, which was I

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Speaker 3: think less than five years. Same with Raymond.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Brian, Neil and Keith awaited trial in jail, with

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Speaker 1: proceedings take plays between nineteen ninety nine and two thousand

358
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Speaker 1: and one.

359
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Speaker 3: Keith msquades he had a first degree sexual assault case

360
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Speaker 3: pending against him. They dismissed that in exchange for his

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Speaker 3: Alfred plea on the murder. I think it was manslaughter.

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Speaker 3: He had nothing to do with it. He has an

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Speaker 3: alibi as well. But he takes this plea on the

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Speaker 3: theory that you know, I might be able to survive

365
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Speaker 3: prison better if I'm a murderer as opposed to sexual assault.

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Speaker 3: So he takes an Alfred plea. But then he tries

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Speaker 3: to withdraw his plea within I think two weeks, and

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Speaker 3: that's denied. So he serves I think fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: So only Neil and Brian couldn't be coerced into a

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Speaker 1: plea deal.

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Speaker 3: Neil King has tried first, and he is acquitted by

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Speaker 3: the judge at the conclusion of the state's evidence on

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Speaker 3: two grounds. One that the only incriminating testimony against him

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Speaker 3: was Raymond Musquaddes, who was an accomplice and in Minnesota

375
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Speaker 3: unied corroborating evidence in addition to accomplice evidence. And the

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Speaker 3: other thing is that Raymond Squatt said Neil King he

377
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Speaker 3: was drunk in the backseat of the car, So there

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Speaker 3: was no clear evidence that, even under Raymond's story, that

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Speaker 3: Neil King had gone in and participated in the actual

380
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Speaker 3: homicide or burglary. But in any event, he was acquitted

381
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Speaker 3: based on the principle that there was no corroborating evidence.

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Speaker 4: So the state right away started interviewing all my cellmates

383
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Speaker 4: and trying to threaten them and getting them to say

384
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Speaker 4: something against.

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Speaker 1: Me, and they found jail house snitch.

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Speaker 3: The jail house snitch is a guy by the name

387
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Speaker 3: of Peter Arnaldi. It's a longtime con man, fraudster, and

388
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Speaker 3: so Brian been told this guy knows his way around

389
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Speaker 3: the court system, and Brian said, I've been wrongfully charged here.

390
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Speaker 3: I mean, I said, what should I do? And he

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Speaker 3: showed him the criminal complaint.

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Speaker 4: I asked him to look at it, and I tell

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Speaker 4: him what I'm being charged with. And then he said, well,

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna take this to the room, and I'm thinking, okay, well, no,

395
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Speaker 4: I'm going to need that back side grab it back.

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Speaker 4: And that's the last I'm not saying there until a

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Speaker 4: couple of years later when he was strolls into the

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Speaker 4: courtroom wearing the street clothes and I didn't know that

399
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Speaker 4: he was in federal custody for bank robbers and they

400
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Speaker 4: had a player's system and then work it to his advantage.

401
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Speaker 3: Peter Arnaldi subsequently says that Brian confessed this crime to me.

402
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Speaker 3: The majority of what he attests to was in the

403
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Speaker 3: criminal complaint which Brian had showed him, but he completely

404
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Speaker 3: misconstrued it. He said, they stuffed Kleenex in her mouth

405
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 3: to stifle her screams, and he got that because the

406
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Speaker 3: criminal complaint in the autopsy said that she had soft

407
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Speaker 3: tissue injuries around her mouth.

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Speaker 1: Wow. But the county Attorney, Bradley Rhodes felt comfortable presenting

409
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Speaker 1: this vailure in reading comprehension as corroborating evidence. Rhodes has

410
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Speaker 1: since been disbarred for unrelated reasons. In addition, Brian's original

411
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Speaker 1: judge had become ill, resulting in a mistrial and a

412
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Speaker 1: change of venue. Then his original attorney, Chris Davis, chose

413
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Speaker 1: this moment to retire.

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Speaker 4: So they appointed me another attorney, that attorney who had

415
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 4: never tried a murder case. I had a new investigator.

416
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 4: I think that was his first case. So I had

417
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 4: two people that really didn't know much about how to

418
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 4: present a case.

419
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Speaker 3: Tom Murtha, he was the defense counsel in this case

420
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 3: where he was a year and a half out of

421
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 3: law school. This case was dumped on and there was

422
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 3: a change of venue so it was up in International Falls,

423
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Speaker 3: right on the Canadian border. So he had to drive

424
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 3: up there in a station wagon with the files in

425
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Speaker 3: the back without much support.

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Speaker 4: And I think they knew what they were doing. Minnesota's

427
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 4: prejudice against state of Americans, and the farther you go

428
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,640
Speaker 4: up north, the more prende there. They had me at

429
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Speaker 4: the tip of the state.

430
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Speaker 3: Here's an interesting thing too. Before where the trial started,

431
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 3: the judge brought the prosecutor in and Tom Earth and

432
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Speaker 3: Brian in and said, look, can we do a deal here.

433
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 4: Prosecutor said, well, we'll take life off the table and

434
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 4: we'll give you seventeen or eighteen years something like that.

435
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 4: And then the judge because, well, i'll tell you this,

436
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 4: I don't care what he's cofering you. I'll give you

437
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 4: seven years. And I already had two years in. I thought, well,

438
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 4: three years left, and I said, well, that's an excellent deal.

439
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 4: And if I was guilty, I would take it. But

440
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 4: I'm not guilty, and I can't see myself admitting to

441
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 4: something that I didn't do.

442
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: So they moved ahead with trial in January two thousand

443
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,360
Speaker 1: and one, presenting the now congealed but still erroneous narrative

444
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: through Raymond Asquattis, and to impeach him. Brian urged Tom

445
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: Murtha to ask about the condition of the house to

446
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 1: which they'd allegedly fled in the aftermath.

447
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 4: And he described it as a hold born out, born

448
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 4: down party house. The windows broke, red, shag carpeting, brown experior,

449
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 4: and the house was enhing like that, and it been remodeled.

450
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 4: My brother was living in there with his girlfriend Mary

451
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 4: Bleacan at the time, so that couldn't have been possible

452
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 4: the police knew this, the sheriff say this, Yet.

453
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: This false narrative was still presented. Unfortunately, Tommrtha had not

454
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:32,360
Speaker 1: yet uncovered all the internal inconsistencies and blatant falsehoods, including

455
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: the basement entry theory.

456
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 3: The forensic technician from the BCA who testified to that

457
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 3: did so in an extremely superficial way. He just said

458
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 3: the point of entry was this window. There was no

459
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 3: analysis done. Two different experts have reviewed the forensics and

460
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 3: the physical evidence surrounding that window independently. They came to

461
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 3: the conclusion that the window entry was staged, that the

462
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 3: wooden slats were pried off the inside with a tool.

463
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 3: There's tool marks, that the muntains that separate the panes

464
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 3: were removed and placed neatly in a spot where they

465
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 3: wouldn't have fallen. Two panes of glass were removed and

466
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 3: placed outside. The other pane was broken, but the glass

467
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 3: from that was actually in the window well, which means

468
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 3: it was broken from the inside. And then there was

469
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 3: large pieces of that pane that were placed again not

470
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 3: where they would have fallen, in fact where they could

471
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 3: not have fallen.

472
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: So it appears that someone broke this window out from

473
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: the inside. It may have been staged or maybe had

474
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: nothing to do with this crime at all. It's unclear.

475
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: But what is clear is the implausibility of an unscathed

476
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: entrance through this basement window.

477
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 3: There was a screw protruding into the area of the

478
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 3: window that you would have caught something on if you

479
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,239
Speaker 3: had gone through there. Where the muntains were broken, there

480
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 3: were pointed pieces that would have caught somebody's fabric if

481
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 3: they had gone through there. There was no footprints or

482
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 3: any sign that anybody landed on the boxes below. Nothing

483
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 3: from the window well, which had leaves and pine needles

484
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 3: and so forth, was discovered beneath the window. There's no

485
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 3: set of footprints that lead from the window over to

486
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 3: the trap door. So there's no forensic evidence supporting the

487
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 3: idea that somebody went through this window other than the

488
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 3: window was open, and all of the forensic evidence is

489
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 3: that nobody did in fact go through the window. No

490
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 3: part of that case with Stan's scrutiny in any respect forensically, physically,

491
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 3: the objective evidence.

492
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: And let's not forget the chair blocking the trap door,

493
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: or the currently misplaced dead bolt that was locked and

494
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: required a key, which would have destroyed the state's theory,

495
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: but none of it was discovered by his trial attorney

496
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: and pointed out to the jury.

497
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 3: And fairness to Tom Mirtha, he had not tried to

498
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 3: fell any case before. I'm not even sure he tried

499
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 3: any cases before, but he did put on a defense.

500
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 3: He called Michael Musquade says to the alibi the pawnshop

501
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 3: operator to authenticate the pawnshop ticket.

502
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 4: I had a charge of talents to get gas at

503
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 4: the local gas station in town. I had a bart tab.

504
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 3: And then the prosecute tried to argue that he fabricated

505
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 3: this alibi while he was awaiting trial with his relatives. Unfortunately,

506
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 3: his attorney at the time didn't make the point that

507
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 3: they knew about this alibi back in March of nineteen

508
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 3: ninety eight, so he didn't fabricate it. And they said, well,

509
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 3: when we asked him about what he was doing that day,

510
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 3: he didn't come up with the alibi. And Brian's answer

511
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 3: to that is, I didn't know exactly what day this

512
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 3: murder occurred. I had nothing to do with it, so

513
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 3: I didn't necessarily put together that I was at the

514
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 3: casino until my nephews told me that and my mother, Agnes,

515
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 3: chief said hey, wait a minute, you don't you have

516
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 3: a pawn receipt from that day.

517
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 4: None of that came in, and they call the head

518
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 4: of security for Malax Casino and he says, yeah, we

519
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 4: don't have any record of at Aime at Picsino. And

520
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 4: that was all just for show because they knew that

521
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 4: no records exist because they were changing the security systems

522
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 4: at that time. There was no evidence linking me to

523
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 4: any of us to the crime. No motivation, they said,

524
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 4: motivate didn't have a factor in Minnesota courts, and the

525
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 4: only thing I had was my nephew testifying and that

526
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 4: jail house.

527
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 3: In foremant, Peter Arnaldi said that Brian felt a great

528
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 3: deal of remorse about what had happened, that they had

529
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 3: killed this lady as part of a burglary, and he

530
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 3: was going to try and get his relatives to conjure

531
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 3: an alibi for him, and that they arrived in his

532
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 3: mother's van and they had gone in and robbed the

533
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 3: place of beer and cigarettes and murdered Evelyn mail It.

534
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 3: He did have to admit that Brian had showed him

535
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 3: the criminal complaint, and that's of course where the soft

536
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 3: tissue injuries were disclosed, which were not Kleenex, and.

537
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 4: Alas seemed like he was a professional. Even I thought, Wow,

538
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 4: this guy, he really sounds like what he's talking about.

539
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 4: If I was a jurior, I believe. I think we

540
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 4: impeached Arnuldy and it really didn't add to the jury.

541
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 4: They you now, like Native Americans up there in northern

542
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 4: Minnesota was at the tip of the state. They don't

543
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 4: even like outfighters.

544
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: I mean, did you have hope that when they came

545
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: back from you know, deliberation, that things might go your way.

546
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 4: No, my attorney did. And then he said, well, what

547
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 4: are you going to do when you get out? I said, well,

548
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 4: this thing is not over it. I looked at the

549
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 4: jury and and micarea or micro expression. I'm not planning

550
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 4: on anything. And I believe it was three days later

551
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 4: that they came back to guilty verdict. And I think

552
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 4: the judge was so mad at me that I didn't

553
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 4: take his seven year offer that he gave me a

554
00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 4: double maximum of two light sentences without stility of paroles.

555
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 4: I got sent to fill Water prison and I guars

556
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 4: a treaty according to here crime and Mane was a

557
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 4: heinous crime against an old lady, so didn't treat me

558
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 4: very fearly. I ended up in the hole quite a bit.

559
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 4: I felt tough, kind of targeted. You passed the time

560
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 4: by working, doing anything you can, staying as busy as

561
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 4: you can't. I do that right now. I developed a routine,

562
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 4: a routine that I fall every day and really go

563
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 4: off course. I just stayed as busy as I can

564
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 4: and it helps pass the time.

565
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: Of course, part of that time was passed by appealing

566
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: his conviction, which was upheld, but his sentence was ruled

567
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: to be improper and he was resenced to one life

568
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: term with parole eligibility. Meanwhile, he filed for post conviction

569
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: relief and was granted a hearing in two thousand and six.

570
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 3: The evidence that was presented there was they said there

571
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 3: was a false evidence about the door lock, that Merle

572
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 3: Malin testified that she wasn't able to lock the door

573
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 3: at the trial, but then he admitted that she could

574
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 3: lock the door, so that was one element. They had

575
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 3: an ineffective assistance of council claim. They had an outdated

576
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 3: from Keith Musquade saying that he wasn't there and that

577
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 3: he knew that Brian came back from the casino that

578
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 3: night at like ten something. Then there was a victim's

579
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 3: advocate who had talked to Ray on the phone at

580
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 3: some time after the trial, and Ray had said, I

581
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 3: just told him what they wanted to hear to get

582
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 3: out of this, but they couldn't find him testify. A

583
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 3: guy by the name of Craig Lacari was housed with

584
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 3: Brian Pippott and Peter Arnaldi, and he said that Arnaldi

585
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 3: had told him that Brian's that he was innocent, that

586
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 3: he had never said anything about Brian confessing.

587
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 4: We pointed out the flaws and our nullity's testimony saying

588
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 4: that there was toilet paper steps in her mouth and

589
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 4: I complained for soft tissue injuries and somehow he converted

590
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 4: that into tissue paper being put in her mouth and

591
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 4: they ignored it.

592
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 3: That was an affidavid from Lacari. The judge wouldn't rid

593
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 3: him out. They didn't have Peter Arnaldi testify, they didn't

594
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 3: have all the forensic experts that we've assembled testified. They

595
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 3: didn't have Neil King testify. So it was really a

596
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 3: pretty tepid presentation and it was denied and appealed and denied.

597
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: At which point Brian began looking for meaningful pro bono help.

598
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 3: Brian Pippott had written to Centurion, so I went out

599
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 3: with two other members and we interviewed him, and everything

600
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 3: he told me turned out to be true. It took

601
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 3: me quite a long time to find Ramus Squades, but

602
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 3: when I found him, he was forthcoming about his having

603
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 3: not told the truth. I also found Peter Arnaldi initially said, well,

604
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 3: you know, they raped her, and I said, Peter, I

605
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 3: have the autopsy report. Whoever did this didn't rape her?

606
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 3: He said, oh my god. I always thought that you know,

607
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 3: these you know, he wasn't charitable about what he called them,

608
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 3: went in and raped this old lady. He said, I

609
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 3: think I have it all wrong.

610
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: Perhaps this was just how Arnaldi internally justified his false

611
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: testimony for personal gain. Either way, Jim continued his investigation,

612
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:31,399
Speaker 1: moving on to Neil King.

613
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 3: Neil King, he said the basis of his defense was

614
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,720
Speaker 3: that he was drunk in the backseat of the car,

615
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 3: and that wasn't even really the truth. He wasn't even

616
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 3: there at all, but he didn't want that disrupted. He

617
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 3: felt that Brian Pipptt had implicated him, so he didn't

618
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 3: want to help him, even though that wasn't the truth.

619
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 3: But he gave us a declaration saying he wasn't there

620
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 3: at all. Keith Musquades gave us a declaration saying he

621
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 3: wasn't there at all. And then I have this forensic evidence, locksmith,

622
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 3: the two different crime scene specialists, and so I put

623
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 3: together an application to the CRU in January of two

624
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,479
Speaker 3: thousand twenty two. It was about seventy five pages long,

625
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 3: doing an analysis of the different stories that Raymond told,

626
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 3: showing photographs of the lock, and the store supported that

627
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 3: with an eight hundred page appendix. So the CRU took

628
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 3: the application, they started their own investigation. There's a couple

629
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 3: of aspects of that I think we're worth mentioning too,

630
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 3: and that is Jim Rats, the County Attorney at the

631
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 3: onset of the CRI investigation, signed a memorandum of understanding

632
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 3: with the Attorney General's Office and CRU, and from what

633
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 3: I understand, he asked for a phrase in that memorandum

634
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 3: of understanding that said I'm paraphrasing him in the event

635
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 3: that I don't want to support the recommendation of the

636
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 3: CRU as the County attorney. If I don't want to

637
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 3: execute that recommendation, then in that event I agree that

638
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 3: I will surrender jurisdiction to the Attorney General's Office.

639
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 1: So it's fair to assume that the county Attorney waived

640
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: jurisdiction and that the Attorney General's Office Conviction Review Unit

641
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: has the final say.

642
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 3: And I have to say that their investigation is astonishing

643
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 3: and how thorough it is. They were able to get

644
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 3: in to interview Don Hill in the psychiatric facility, something

645
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 3: I was not able to do. They reviewed literally thousands

646
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 3: of documents. They interviewed either twenty five or twenty six witnesses,

647
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,919
Speaker 3: recorded interviews. There was no leading questions. They discovered an

648
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 3: alibi witness for Keith Musquades, who I was unable to find.

649
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 3: They interviewed the forensic specialists, they retained an expert of

650
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 3: their own with respect to the false confession, and ultimately

651
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 3: they issued a report that was one hundred and eighty

652
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 3: pages long with nine hundred footnotes to source materials. And

653
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 3: the guy who did the majority of the investigative work

654
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 3: for the CIRIU was an Assistant Attorney General by the

655
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 3: name of Carmen Leone and at the end of the investigation,

656
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 3: they prepared a draft report that was reviewed not only

657
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 3: by carmeon Leone's immediate boss, Carrie Spurling, but by her boss,

658
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 3: the Deputy Attorney General, David Voyce. They presented a draft

659
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 3: as a courtesy to the BCA and to the county

660
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 3: attorney and to the sheriff guide and I said, we're

661
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 3: inviting you to make comments on this, and the response

662
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 3: was an extremely hostile one, and so they they're contesting it,

663
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 3: even though they don't have any inherent standing to do that.

664
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 4: I have nothing to hide. I waive attorney client privilege

665
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 4: because I knew the county signed an agreement to go

666
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 4: along with the filings, and so I've been waiting for

667
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 4: two and a half years for this investigation to unfold.

668
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 4: And then April I found out that, Hey, they found

669
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 4: the truth. They found everything that was going on. This

670
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 4: investigation was so thorough. They found stuff that we didn't

671
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,879
Speaker 4: even find out. And yes, the county didn't like that.

672
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 3: The sheriff was very hostile. He said that two courts

673
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 3: had already had judged this case. Of course that doesn't

674
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 3: mean anything, because everything that we've produced, no court judge

675
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 3: or jury hasn't it hurt any of this material? And

676
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 3: then he said something along the lines of you have

677
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 3: to prove to me beyond reasonable doubt that he didn't

678
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 3: do this, and I don't think you're going to be

679
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 3: able to do that. He also said at one point,

680
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 3: you never did a reenactment of anybody going through that window,

681
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 3: So how do you know that somebody couldn't get through

682
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 3: the window. And then he also said something along the

683
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 3: lines of I knew Keith Musquaddies from years ago. He's

684
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 3: a very athletic guy. He could have gotten through the window.

685
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 3: The position has never been that it's physically impossible for

686
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 3: someone to get through the window. Oh, it's tough. It's

687
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 3: that nobody did go through the window, given the forensic

688
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 3: evidence at the scene. And when Carmen Leone said something

689
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 3: along the lines of, well there was cat blood there.

690
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 3: You know, I guess a cat couldn't get through it

691
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 3: because I've lived with cats all my life. I no

692
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 3: cat's going to cut itself. So Carmen said to him, well,

693
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 3: how do you think the cat blood got there? This

694
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 3: is the mentality we're dealing with. He said, I think

695
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 3: the misquadies went out and killed a cat and put

696
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 3: its blood on there to put us off the track.

697
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds reasonable.

698
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:58,879
Speaker 3: The BCA said we're going to do our own investigation,

699
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 3: and they hired three outside people, was the experts. I

700
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,280
Speaker 3: don't know what the terms of those agreements are, and

701
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 3: their motivation is undisguised that the purpose of their parallel

702
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 3: investigation is to find something, anything, that they can use

703
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,399
Speaker 3: to discredit the CRU report, and so far their investigation,

704
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 3: when you compare it to what the CRU did, is laughable.

705
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 3: I mean, they interviewed George Horseman, but they didn't record it,

706
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 3: and they got a summary of a statement from him,

707
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 3: and what it was clear was that they were trying

708
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 3: to get him to move off of his steadfast position

709
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 3: that no peer, no cigarettes were missing. The store portion

710
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 3: of the building was untouched, and they evidently they got

711
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,479
Speaker 3: him to look at some photographs and say, well, maybe

712
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 3: there were some cigaretts there that are missing, and I

713
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 3: guess he kind of went, well maybe, you know. Then

714
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 3: they did a reenactment of someone making their way through

715
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 3: the window. They were able to show that somebody could

716
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 3: physically make their way through the window, but without the

717
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 3: nail protruding, without the glass in it without the munting parts.

718
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 3: Even then the kid was going through it caught his

719
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 3: shirt on the wooden.

720
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: Frame, which has always been the misunderstanding. The issue isn't

721
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: whether someone could get through the window, but whether they

722
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: could do it without leaving any evidence behind. Not even

723
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: a cat could do it.

724
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 3: Now, we labored under the impression that Jim rats the

725
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 3: county attorney. He's a man of his word, because we

726
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 3: could have been advancing our case through the court system

727
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 3: as opposed to going through the cru which took two years.

728
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 3: So he's renegged on that. He hasn't given any reason

729
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 3: for that other than I think he's getting pressure from

730
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,760
Speaker 3: his sheriff there and maybe the BCA. So we filed

731
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 3: a seventy five page petition with the Aiken County Court.

732
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 3: We've asked for some discovery. I want to know what's

733
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 3: going on with the so called consultants from the BCA.

734
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 3: I want that DNA testing evidence from the BCA. There's

735
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 3: a wallet that we believe the assailant touched the cuttings

736
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 3: from the nightgown. Evidently there was some material under her fingernails,

737
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 3: we understand, and last January, when the Attorney General's Office

738
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 3: was investigating the case. Person from the BCA contacted Carmen

739
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 3: Leones and said there's insufficient male DNA under her fingernails

740
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 3: to warrant any further testing. So I have requested those

741
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 3: test materials. There's evidently a quant test done. There must

742
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 3: have been enough there for them to determine that it

743
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 3: was mail DNA, and thus far they've not been forthcoming

744
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 3: with providing that to us. And so the defense to

745
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 3: our petition, our seventy five page petition was a nine

746
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 3: page reply by the county attorney. It has some allegations

747
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 3: that are demonstrably false, and it basically relies in kind

748
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 3: of an amalgam of some technical claims. Well, this has

749
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 3: already been adjudged. What are we doing here? That's the

750
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 3: extent of what they've put in to defend against this.

751
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:51,839
Speaker 1: But there is a way to circumvent them.

752
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,879
Speaker 3: Tim Walls has the power to take the case from

753
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 3: the county attorney and give it to Keith Ellison. He

754
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 3: will not do that without Keith Ellison and formally asking

755
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 3: him to do that. I think with the election pending,

756
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,399
Speaker 3: there's little appetite to do that. Keith Ellison also has

757
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 3: to maintain working relationships with the various county attorneys, and

758
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 3: taking this from the county attorney could be problematic for.

759
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 1: Him, although I wish this was treated with the urgency

760
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: it deserves. After November twenty twenty four, either Tim Waltz

761
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 1: or Lieutenant Governor Peggy Flanagan, who happens to be of

762
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: the White Earth Band of Ojaboy, will be able to

763
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: empower Keith Ellison to do what is right. We have

764
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: linked a petition in the episode description to show your support,

765
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: and with that we go to our closing, in which

766
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 1: I'm going to thank our guests for joining us today

767
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: and then just sit back and lock it up as

768
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 1: they share their final thoughts.

769
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 3: The bottom line is that Brian Pippott was not there,

770
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 3: He had no involvement in this case. He doesn't know

771
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 3: who did it, and he's been wrongfully charged and convicted,

772
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 3: and the authorities at this point are not treating him fairly.

773
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,439
Speaker 3: Law enforcement's so called investigation of this, I have to say,

774
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 3: is a discredit to law enforcement because it's not an

775
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 3: honest investigation, and by that I mean the BCA and

776
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 3: sheriff guide his investigation. The man should be let out.

777
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 3: He's innocent. Anybody who's looked at this case in any

778
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 3: real detail, which is my organization. The Attorney General's Office

779
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 3: and Mitchell Hamlin Law School Clinic studied the case and

780
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 3: did a pretty comprehensive job themselves, has determined that he

781
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 3: is factually innocent. Yet he languishes in prison, has been

782
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 3: there for twenty five years. His relatives have died in

783
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 3: the meantime. Let the man out.

784
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 4: I'd like to say Jim Cousins and the Centurion Ministries

785
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 4: for helping me throughout Pears and the fear you for

786
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 4: highly time and time and the truth. What's got made

787
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,720
Speaker 4: through this twenty six years is hope that the truth

788
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 4: will come out. It has and as a state prosecutor,

789
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 4: Keith ellis and he knows the truth. And I can't

790
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 4: understand why he will not ask for this case because

791
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,439
Speaker 4: the way it was explained to me is that other

792
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 4: prosecutors will get mad because he took the case away

793
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 4: from accounting. Well, he's doing what's right. His job is

794
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 4: not about making friends keeping friends, whether people will like

795
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 4: what he does. It's his job, see and something he

796
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 4: could do. Sixty two years old. Native Americans don't have

797
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 4: that long of a lifespan, and I don't want to

798
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 4: die in prison. I have this belief that your soul

799
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 4: stays where you die, and I don't want my still

800
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 4: staying around prison for eternity. And I wanted to be

801
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 4: around family and around nature where I feel connection. I

802
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 4: figure I've got ten years at the most, I want

803
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 4: to live life lived.

804
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen

805
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 2: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one

806
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 2: week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for

807
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 2: Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our

808
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 2: production team, Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as

809
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 2: my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cliber.

810
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 2: The music in this production was supplied by three time

811
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 2: OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us

812
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 2: across all social media platforms at Lava for Good and

813
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 2: at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram

814
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 2: at It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of

815
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 2: Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number One.

816
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported

817
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,760
Speaker 1: in this show are accurate. The views and opinions expressed

818
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: by the individuals featured in this show are their own

819
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: and do not necessarily reflect those of Lava for Good