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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to save a production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 1: I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we

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Speaker 1: have a classic episode for you about non alcoholic cocktails. Yes,

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Speaker 1: a mocktail our as we called it. Indeed, yes, because

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Speaker 1: we could not help ourselves. Um and this is an

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Speaker 1: honor of the fact that um Our interviewee for that

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Speaker 1: episode one, Julia Bainbridge, was talking in that interview um

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Speaker 1: in in back in May about a book that she

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Speaker 1: was starting to work on about non alcoholic cocktails. And

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Speaker 1: she has come out with that book. Yes, it's so cool.

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Speaker 1: It's it feels like the circle of podcaster book life.

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Speaker 1: Um yeah, because she was talking about it in this

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Speaker 1: interview and she was still work shopping names for it

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Speaker 1: and it's just really you oh no, rewarding to see

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Speaker 1: it come to fruition. Oh absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. The book

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Speaker 1: is called Good Drinks subtitle alcohol Free Recipes for when

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Speaker 1: You're not drinking for whatever reason. And uh and yeah

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Speaker 1: we are. We're so excited about it. Yeah, it's a

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Speaker 1: wonderful title, by the way, Yes, yes, and uh yeah

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Speaker 1: available now if you're looking to try some new things

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Speaker 1: during this time, which I I absolutely have been and

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Speaker 1: been really enjoying and this is a great resource for you.

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Speaker 1: It is. Yeah, you know, perhaps especially now during these

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Speaker 1: are COVID times. Um, you know, it's it's a time

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Speaker 1: of reflection, I think for a lot of people and um,

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Speaker 1: and reflecting on you know, what our habits were in

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Speaker 1: the before times and what they are now and how

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Speaker 1: you know, what what we want to go back to

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Speaker 1: when we can, and what we maybe want to change

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Speaker 1: up about ourselves in our world. And so and maybe

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Speaker 1: drinking less is on your list of things to do,

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Speaker 1: or maybe you don't drink at all anyway and you

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Speaker 1: want a good drink. Yeah, yeah, um so yeah, so

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Speaker 1: uh so I propose um that we go ahead and

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Speaker 1: get into this episode. Um, and then we'll talk afterwards

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about how the book turned out.

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Speaker 1: Does that sound good? Annie, Yes, I concur Lauren excellent.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well then we shall let previous Annie and

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Speaker 1: Lauren take it away. Hello, and welcome to food Stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm Anny Rees and I'm Lauren voc Obam. And today

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Speaker 1: we're talking. We're talking about non alcoholic beverage concoctions. Yes,

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Speaker 1: there's no good name for them, there is not. Um,

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Speaker 1: most commonly on news called the mocktail um. They go

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Speaker 1: buy a lot of a lot of other names, which

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about Morna and I love talking

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Speaker 1: about all the weird names for things, um, but we

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Speaker 1: probably will be using mocktail ah throughout most of this Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's the easiest. Yeah, but listeners, if any of you

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Speaker 1: have a good idea for what it should be called, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a space that needs to be filled here. We

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Speaker 1: also have a guest in this episode. Oh yes, Julia

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Speaker 1: Bainbridge came and spoke with this. She did, and you

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Speaker 1: might know her as the host of the Lonely Hour

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Speaker 1: podcast are through her work in the food industry, She's

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Speaker 1: done a lot of writing and she is currently um

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Speaker 1: working on a book about the mocktail um, which we

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Speaker 1: are very much looking forward to. Yes, and we're gonna

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Speaker 1: let her talk more about all the stuff that she

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Speaker 1: has done at the end of this here podcast episode. Yeah, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: yes to interview later. But but first, mocktails what is it?

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Speaker 1: For some reason, I think of like a parakeets and

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Speaker 1: like the tail on the back, like flaring out. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why one cockatoo, two cocka four, I don't

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Speaker 1: know there's a song in there that has a mocktail

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Speaker 1: in it, Mary Kate Nashley song, because that's all I know.

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Speaker 1: Apparently my brain is just Mary Kate Nashley songs and donuts.

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Speaker 1: I love the sheer number of times that Mary Kate

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Speaker 1: Nashley have come up in this podcast. I know I'm

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Speaker 1: growing increasingly embarrassed by it, but at the same time

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna double down. Now own it, dude, own it.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely we'll own it. Not okay, So it is

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Speaker 1: not a parakeets tail. It is a oh, a virgin cocktail.

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Speaker 1: I forgot about that non alcoholic cocktail or virgin cocktail. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's a mixed beverage of the non alcoholic variety. Is

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Speaker 1: your point zero percent a baby as stands for alcohol

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Speaker 1: by volume? Yes, or hypothetically Hypothetically some some non alcoholic

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Speaker 1: cocktails are technically low alcoholic cocktails with less than zero

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Speaker 1: point five percent alcohol content um, and apart from being

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Speaker 1: something pregnant women can enjoy. Or for people who have

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Speaker 1: struggled with alcohol before the designated driver, maybe a medication

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Speaker 1: that's incompatible with alcohol, maybe you've got an allergy. Or

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Speaker 1: for people of business meetings looking to have one alcoholic

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Speaker 1: drink but not get wasted after that. Um some countries

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Speaker 1: or for some religions, alcohol of any kind is prohibited.

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Speaker 1: It's for a lot more people than you might think

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Speaker 1: at first. Absolutely, yes, Oh and children, children too. Yes.

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Speaker 1: I can tell you a lot of friends of mine

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Speaker 1: would have loved something other than a Shirley Temple to

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Speaker 1: order a restaurants as children. Absolutely. I think by the

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Speaker 1: time I was thirteen and really hitting the bar in

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Speaker 1: Mitzvah circuit like I was, Shirley Temples were already too

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Speaker 1: sweet for me. But you wanted the experience. You were like,

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Speaker 1: I'm so grown up. I am thirteen. Look at this

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Speaker 1: dress that I am wearing. I had my hair done today.

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Speaker 1: I need to carry around a glass like Lauren Bicall,

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Speaker 1: because that's what adulthood is. Yeah, carrying around glasses with

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Speaker 1: the dress that it's done. I'm not math and dirty.

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Speaker 1: I never I never ordered as Shirley tim Full No, No,

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Speaker 1: I just wasn't. I'm not. I wasn't into sweet things then.

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Speaker 1: I'm not into sweet things too much now of the

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Speaker 1: drink variety. Give me the aforementioned donut any day. But

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Speaker 1: my friends were so excited every time they saw them

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Speaker 1: on a menu, and I think to this day they

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Speaker 1: would be. Honestly, I'm still enjoy them. I Oh, I

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Speaker 1: haven't had one in a very very long time. Okay, homework. Uh.

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Speaker 1: If you think of a traditional beverage menu, traditionally it's

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Speaker 1: been cocktails, beer, wine, and then a smushed list of

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Speaker 1: soda offerings. Oh sure, yeah, like like we have Coca

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Speaker 1: Cola products or we have pepsi products and that's it, right,

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Speaker 1: that's all it says exactly. And as far as um

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Speaker 1: craft cocktails have increased in popularity among bartenders and consumers,

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Speaker 1: so too has the mocktail, the craft mocktail, perhaps because

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Speaker 1: bartenders have all these syrups and tinctures and fizzy drinks

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Speaker 1: at their disposal for cocktails, so it just makes sense

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Speaker 1: to have offerings for those looking for a well bounced

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Speaker 1: drink minus the alcohol and you know, just something kind

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Speaker 1: of nicer than your Coca cola, a little more exciting.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps you're looking to celebrate to Yeah, it just makes

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Speaker 1: sense to me. Um. Oh, and there's even their eyes

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Speaker 1: of Sober happy hours. Yeah. Um, I was reading about them.

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Speaker 1: They seem that seemed pretty fun. To me, and I

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Speaker 1: had that thought the other day when we were at

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Speaker 1: a work happy hour and just how difficult it might

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Speaker 1: be if you don't enjoy alcohol, and so many of

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Speaker 1: these events are so based around our ahol. Absolutely, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So it'd be great to have more of these offers

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Speaker 1: an option. Yeah. There's also along those lines lots of

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Speaker 1: low or no alcohol beers or malt beverages, plus similar

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Speaker 1: low alcohol wines and even de spirited spirits on the market,

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Speaker 1: which is sort of a side quest to our topic today,

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Speaker 1: but I did want to mention it, especially as these

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Speaker 1: products might be useful as part of a mocktail maker's

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Speaker 1: back bar. Yes. Um, And even though several mock tails

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Speaker 1: are based on the alcoholic version, simply omitting the alcohol

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Speaker 1: from a recipe is generally a bad practice. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because you need to consider the ratio. Um, what do

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Speaker 1: you replace the alcohol with. It's a strong flavor, You're

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Speaker 1: gonna want something there. Um. Sparkling water is an easy

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Speaker 1: enough in astitute for vodka. That's a good starting place. Yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I do I have to say I like the

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Speaker 1: nameplay of mocktails. The no Hito Cuddles on a beach

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Speaker 1: that light and drizzly, dark and stormy, light and drizzly.

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Speaker 1: I love it. Um. There there are lots of other

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Speaker 1: ways to make a nonalcoholic cocktail replicate the flavor experience

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Speaker 1: of an alcoholic one, though, Like just just think about

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Speaker 1: what's happening in your mouth when you sip an alcoholic beverage,

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Speaker 1: or if you haven't had one, come along with me

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Speaker 1: on this journey. Um. The alcohol is going to set

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Speaker 1: off a particular taste receptor that reports both physical heat,

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Speaker 1: um and also chemical spice. That's the burning sensation of booze.

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Speaker 1: But it also happens with stuff like capsacan or ginger

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Speaker 1: or peppercorns. There's also an astringent or drying sensation, the

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Speaker 1: same way that lemons and lots of berries, vinegars and

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Speaker 1: other tart acidic foods have. And there might be some

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Speaker 1: tannins in there, and in the case of like wine

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Speaker 1: or stuff like that, which create an extra layer of

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Speaker 1: a stringency, as do tease and coffee. If the product

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Speaker 1: was aged in wood barrels, either charred or plane, it

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Speaker 1: might have picked up some particular flavor compounds from that,

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Speaker 1: like a vanilla or smoke or kind of a cherry

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Speaker 1: almond sort of thing. It might contain carbon dioxide, bubbles, soda,

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Speaker 1: water and other soft drinks indeed do it could have

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Speaker 1: a smooth or creamy kind of mouth feel, either from

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Speaker 1: the ingredients themselves or from the bacteria or yeasts that

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Speaker 1: went into the fermentation process. And stuff like kombucha can

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Speaker 1: contain similar bacteria yeast poop products. Or adding an egg

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Speaker 1: or just the yolk or the white to a shaking

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Speaker 1: cocktail can give you some of that silk. There might

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Speaker 1: be some bitterness similarly, which you can get from herbs

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Speaker 1: like rosemary, sage or time, or from the oils and

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Speaker 1: citrus peels, or from spices like card mom, and sweetness

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Speaker 1: from any remaining sugars post fermentation. And y'all know that

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Speaker 1: there are no end of sweet juices and sugary concoctions

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Speaker 1: on the market, no end. And those are just like

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Speaker 1: some starter parallels. There are tons and tons of foods

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Speaker 1: and products out there that that replicate these flavor sensations,

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Speaker 1: and they're ready for the replication. Yes, yes, so that's

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Speaker 1: our basic overview of the version cocktail, the mockta um.

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Speaker 1: But we do have a little bit of history, especially

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Speaker 1: famous mock tails out there for you. Yes, but first

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Speaker 1: we have a quick break for a word more sponsor

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Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you. The

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Speaker 1: ancestor of the cocktail is something we've talked about before,

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Speaker 1: the soda Shop. Yeah, if you want more info on that,

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Speaker 1: we we have a whole episode for you. We do.

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Speaker 1: And another thing that we'll have to do a whole

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Speaker 1: episode on maybe probably is those low to no alcohol beverages.

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Speaker 1: And these have roots in the small beers of Europe

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Speaker 1: going way way way back, but production began in earnest

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Speaker 1: in the United States during Prohibition UM. The law prevented

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Speaker 1: sales at beverages above at zero point five alcohol bi

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Speaker 1: volume levels, so a number of breweries converted to creating

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Speaker 1: this stuff rather than shut down entirely. Uh. But it

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Speaker 1: wasn't great generally. This was just like light beer with

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Speaker 1: the ethanol heated out of the fermented malt, which really

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Speaker 1: flattens the flavor. Yeah, the heating process is not good

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Speaker 1: for all of those delicate aroma compounds. They're so delicate.

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Speaker 1: The belief to be first mocktail is one that we

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Speaker 1: just mentioned and you've probably heard of before that the

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Speaker 1: Shirley Temple. If you've never had one. It's most commonly

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Speaker 1: a mixture of ginger ale, grenadine, a cherry, uh, and

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Speaker 1: maybe some lemon as garnish. And I've never had one.

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Speaker 1: I just could tell I wouldn't like it. And yes,

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Speaker 1: it was named after child actress Shirley Temple. As per usual,

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Speaker 1: multiple restaurants and hotels bartenders claimed to have claimed to

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Speaker 1: have invented this one for Temple when she visited with

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Speaker 1: her parents. Temple herself, who became Temple Black, once asserted

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Speaker 1: the drink was created at the Brown Derby restaurant of

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Speaker 1: Hollywood in the nineteen thirties and that she was not involved.

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Speaker 1: We just talked about this restain, didn't we. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: looks like a Derby. It looks like a Derby hat.

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Speaker 1: It looks looks like a big, big brown Derby hat. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I got a good chuckle out of that picture. We

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Speaker 1: need to go. Yeah. Field trips Field trips all around

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Speaker 1: the Royal Hawaiian Resort, and Wakiki lays claim to it

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Speaker 1: as well, purportedly naming it in honor of their frequent

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Speaker 1: famous guest. Another restaurant, Chasen and Beverly Hill, says they

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Speaker 1: were the first ones to whip us up for Temple's

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Speaker 1: tenth birthday. Temple allegedly went to court twice to prevent

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Speaker 1: soda companies from bottling a Shirley Temple. Um, and she

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Speaker 1: was not a big cocktail mocktail for children fans. She

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Speaker 1: was afraid it was going to inspire lead to Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what's that called a good gateway? A gateway, gateway mock taale,

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Speaker 1: a gateway mocktail. A few other celebrities have mocktails named

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Speaker 1: after them. You've got the Roy Rogers, named for the

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Speaker 1: famous teetotaler actor Singer. Is a concoction of Kola, grenadine

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Speaker 1: and cherries, and since it is similar to the Shirley Temple,

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Speaker 1: it's sometimes called the Shirley Temple Black her married name.

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Speaker 1: The origin is unknown, and it's often called the boys

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Speaker 1: version of the Shirley Town because cola is so manly

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Speaker 1: and it's not it's it's very gendered. I'm okay share whatever.

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Speaker 1: Always Um. There's the Arnold Palmer, which is a half

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Speaker 1: and half mixture of lemonade and iced tea. The golfer

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Speaker 1: claimed to make this drink at home for himself, but

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Speaker 1: sometime in the nineties sixties, someone overheard him ordering at

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Speaker 1: a bar this drink a bar a bar and pulps rings,

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Speaker 1: and the person asked the bartender for that palma drink,

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Speaker 1: and old Arnie Solid has to make some cash, and

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Speaker 1: he allowed the Arizona Beverage Company to use his name

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Speaker 1: to make a bottled version. Huh yeah. Mocktails surge in

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Speaker 1: popularity in the nineteen eighties with all of those sugary

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Speaker 1: premixes we've talked about with cocktails absolutely. By the turn

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Speaker 1: of the twenty one century, total consumption of alcohol worldwide

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Speaker 1: was falling, and in two point two billion liters of

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Speaker 1: non alcoholic beer were sold. That's five and eighty million gallons,

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Speaker 1: which was up from just five years previous in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and seven. Part of this rise in non alcoholic

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Speaker 1: multi beverage sales is that the technology and process for

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Speaker 1: creating them has improved. Burgers are working with yeasts that

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Speaker 1: are slower to convert sugar to alcohol, but that's still

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Speaker 1: impart other flavors to the product, and vacuum processing can

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Speaker 1: pull the ethanol out of fermented products at much lower temperatures,

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Speaker 1: preventing damage of those flavor molecules and reverse osmosis can

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Speaker 1: do it at even lower temperatures. Still, oh, reverse osmosis.

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Speaker 1: And these days, with the rise and handmade cocktails and

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Speaker 1: the focus on health and mindfulness that some people are ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: There are all kinds of guides and tricks and products

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Speaker 1: out there to make tasty non alcoholic cocktails. And okay

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Speaker 1: to talk about all that. Um, we're going to have

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Speaker 1: our our guest, Julia Bainbridge in just a moment. But

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Speaker 1: first one more quick break for a word from our sponsor,

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Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor. And now can we

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Speaker 1: do can we do a guest segment transition? I believe

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Speaker 1: we can. I think we have the technology. Heck, and

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Speaker 1: we are here with Julia Bainbridge. Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for being with us. Julia, you're having me, yes, And

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Speaker 1: can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Yes?

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Speaker 1: I am in an editor and a writer, mostly about food,

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Speaker 1: but about some other stuff too, like feelings and what not.

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Speaker 1: Feelings wood does give me feelings, that's true. But I'm

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Speaker 1: the host, creator, and producer of a podcast called The

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Speaker 1: Lonely Hour, which is an exploration of loneliness and solitude.

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Speaker 1: But it's not a bummer. Um, at least that is

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Speaker 1: my cocktail party line. But back to the food stuff.

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Speaker 1: I've been an editor of an Appetite and most recently

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Speaker 1: Atlanta magazine. UM. And I've written some stuff for The

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Speaker 1: Washington Post and Cutting Nest, Traveler and Solver and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. UM. And I'm about to start research on

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Speaker 1: a book all about non alcoholic cocktails and other non

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Speaker 1: alcoholic drinks, a whole book. Yes, uh where is enough

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Speaker 1: to say, Yeah, that's that's really exciting for it for

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Speaker 1: a number of reasons. What's the mocktail landscape like these days?

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Speaker 1: It's still a pretty nascent category, but there's definitely movement there. Um.

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Speaker 1: More and more bartenders are carving out space for non

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Speaker 1: alcoholic drinks on their beverage menus. And then we're products

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Speaker 1: on the market too. So seed Lip I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you heard of this um. Seed Lip is the

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Speaker 1: world's first distilled non alcoholic spirit. UM. It was launched

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Speaker 1: by this guy, ben Um. I think his last name

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Speaker 1: is Branson, a British guy. UM. And there's Sound, which

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Speaker 1: is a brand making sparkling tease. UM and some new

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Speaker 1: product called kin Tonic that's made with botanical extracts and

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Speaker 1: it's being marketed as an alcohol alternative. Um. I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to get my hands on the bottle of that. I

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Speaker 1: haven't yet, but um, it's just we see this happening.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely growing, um, and I think we're only going

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Speaker 1: to see this category continue to grow and Strengthen. There's

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Speaker 1: the rate of decline in global alcohol consumption is accelerating. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the global market for alcoholic drinks shrunk by one point

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Speaker 1: three percent in And I know that sounds really small,

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Speaker 1: but compared with an average rate of point three in

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Speaker 1: the previous five years, it's pretty significant. Wow. Uh what

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Speaker 1: do you think is driving that that rise in popularity? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's this is it's like a confluence of so many things. UM.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sorry for the long answer here. I mean

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Speaker 1: the first thing that comes to mind is the waning

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Speaker 1: taboo around substance abuse issues. Um, and so sober people

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Speaker 1: are less I think about like in my mom's era,

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Speaker 1: the conversations around alcoholism and drug addiction whatnots just like

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Speaker 1: a totally different landscape today than it was then. So

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Speaker 1: so were people are less and less ashamed. Um to

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Speaker 1: be so, and then because our palates are also more sophisticated,

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Speaker 1: Like you can look to any mass market food magazine

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Speaker 1: to see the global ingredients that are now assumed to

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Speaker 1: be found in readers local supermarkets. So you know, to

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Speaker 1: find evidence of that, like we see IRFA, you know,

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Speaker 1: and all these um strange things that you actually can

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Speaker 1: find locally. Um So we're we're expecting more. Um So

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Speaker 1: a juice isn't going to cut it anymore for these

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Speaker 1: people who want to not drink alcohol. Um. And so

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Speaker 1: the industry is really beginning to answer to that rising

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Speaker 1: demand with more thoughtful, multiple component drinks that don't have

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Speaker 1: alcohol in them. Um. And then I think to speaking

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Speaker 1: of the industry, like a growing number of bartenders are

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Speaker 1: also drinking less or not at all. So there's um

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Speaker 1: Jack McGarry at the Dead Rabbit in New York. There's

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Speaker 1: Jaron rive Us at Tipo, and Jim Karns who has

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Speaker 1: the happiest hour and slowly surely I think also in

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Speaker 1: New York. Um they've both been really outspoken about their sobriety.

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Speaker 1: So again the kind of lack of um or the

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Speaker 1: waning shape around talking about it. Um So, then they're

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Speaker 1: the millennials, like anything driving trends today, So um, I

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Speaker 1: was reading this piece by the Wall Street Journal just

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Speaker 1: published in March about the twenty some things who are

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Speaker 1: embracing clean living as a way to find balance to

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Speaker 1: mid today's global uncertainty. So um. The journal dubbed this

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Speaker 1: group the clean lifers, writing that they revel in dodging

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Speaker 1: the indulgences of their elders, like a new temperance. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like like like temperance, but in a fun way. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: with your sense. Um. Yeah, So of course you know

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Speaker 1: this group is shaping consumer behavior and um, that euromonitor,

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Speaker 1: that market research firm. Um, they did some research and

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Speaker 1: in the notes they said, this group feels they can

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Speaker 1: make a difference. This influences their spending choices. So it's

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Speaker 1: more about saying no no to alcohol, no to unhealthy habits,

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Speaker 1: no to animal based products, and increasingly nod to measured

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Speaker 1: or uninformed spending. Um. And then there's just like learning

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Speaker 1: to have restraint. Like what yeah, I mean we had

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Speaker 1: this wonderful resurgence of golden era cocktail culture, right, this

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Speaker 1: was you know, with speakeasy style bars. Um. This all

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Speaker 1: started to kind of effortvests like ten to fifteen years ago. Um.

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Speaker 1: And now so we all know what a Negroni or

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Speaker 1: a Manhattan is, um. And we also know the punch

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Speaker 1: that they pack, you know, um those yeah, um, so

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Speaker 1: you have one, maybe two of those, and it's kind

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Speaker 1: of game over. So um, where to go next? You know?

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Speaker 1: I love bunappet Editor at large Andrew Nolton. Um. He

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Speaker 1: wrote an essay called a Short History of My long

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Speaker 1: Drinking life. It was in the October Seen issue. UM,

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Speaker 1: and he said, I drink less, but I drink better.

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Speaker 1: And it's because I've learned to respect drinking and the

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Speaker 1: craft of it, the camaraderie of it, um, and the

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Speaker 1: importance of it in my life. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: screw up that relationship. So he's just put some rules

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Speaker 1: in place for himself to be able to enjoy drinking

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Speaker 1: but not overdo it. Um. And that just wanted James

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Speaker 1: Beard Award. That's great. Yeah, yeah, especially. I mean we

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Speaker 1: just went on a field trip to Kentucky to kind

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Speaker 1: of travel a little bit of the Bourbon Trail and

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Speaker 1: visit some distilleries and some breweries. And I think we

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Speaker 1: counted it, and we sampled over thirty beers in three days. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and most of those were tasting pores, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: like three ounces, but and and we were sharing them,

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Speaker 1: but oh absolutely, Like our bodies were so angry at us.

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Speaker 1: And it's so easy when you're in this industry to

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Speaker 1: have that pressure to try everything and to you know,

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Speaker 1: just to be able to speak about it or to

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Speaker 1: have the experience. Yeah, I mean we're I feel like

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Speaker 1: with this rise in the mindfulness movement, we're being more

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Speaker 1: mindful about what we consume on a number of different levels.

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Speaker 1: Like even if people don't have a allergy to gluten,

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Speaker 1: they're thinking, oh, I feel kind of bloated when I

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Speaker 1: eat too much gluten, so I'm going to reduce that intake. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe I should eat a vegetable that isn't wheat. Yeah

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Speaker 1: right right, Um, so kind of the same thing. Like

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Speaker 1: I have plenty of friends who aren't sober and don't

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Speaker 1: a goal with substance abuse issues. But they've removed alcohol

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Speaker 1: for you know, dry newariaes of thing notcohol, to kind

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Speaker 1: of reset for January, and everybody reports back just saying

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Speaker 1: I felt so good. And so this is now part

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Speaker 1: of their practice where maybe two months a year they

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Speaker 1: don't drink just because it feels good. Yeah, have you

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Speaker 1: done any research into the history of a non alcoholic

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Speaker 1: mixed drinks and if so, Um, how has the scene

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Speaker 1: changed over time? Yeah, I mean, like in terms of

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Speaker 1: recent history, as we were saying, like, things have definitely

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Speaker 1: gotten a lot more sophisticated in terms of what restaurants

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Speaker 1: and bars are offering non drinkers, Like ten even five

399
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Speaker 1: years ago, you'd find you know, those tiky derivative sugar

400
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Speaker 1: bomb drinks swell Bucks for basically juice um and sour mix.

401
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Speaker 1: Never forget the sound. Oh yes, never forget um, but

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Speaker 1: like with no nuance or herbal or bitter edge. And

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Speaker 1: that's changing as we're talking about. And from what I've

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Speaker 1: learned talking to bartenders about this category, like it's not

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Speaker 1: a loss for them, like mocktails, like cringe every time

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Speaker 1: I say that word, But it's just that that you yes,

407
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Speaker 1: one word thing to say. Montel's allow bartenders to play

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Speaker 1: with kind of herbal implant based ingredients that would have

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Speaker 1: been off limits before. Because if you think about how

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Speaker 1: you build a cocktail, it always starts with that base

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Speaker 1: spirit and that's a strong flavor, and then you build

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Speaker 1: the rest of the components around that. So remove it

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Speaker 1: and there's all this like flavor real estate to play with.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can use pine and birch and all

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Speaker 1: these things that are strong themselves that may have competed

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Speaker 1: with the spirit before. So it's kind of exciting. Like

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Speaker 1: I see a lot of people, a lot of bartenders

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Speaker 1: getting jazzed buy mocktails. Um. Yeah. But if if we're

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Speaker 1: going to further back, you mentioned temperance drinks before. So

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Speaker 1: like the temperance era, Britain was rapidly industrializing in the

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds and there was this rise in heavy drinking

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Speaker 1: UM that went along with that, and so the government

423
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: tried to straighten things out by putting pressure on people

424
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: to drink more responsibly or not at all. Um. So

425
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: temperance drinks were born, and I for the sense I

426
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: get is that they they were kind of about having

427
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: health been fits. They were temperate strengths. Specifically, we're like

428
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: you would have ginger because that's good for soothing colds

429
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: or from into dandelion roots, serment to detoxify um. And

430
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 1: that kind of sounds familiar with what I'm seeing now,

431
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 1: Like I'm thinking of abc V, which is a Geen

432
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 1: George restaurant in um in New York and the beverage

433
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: menu has a category called Vibrations. Now, I know it

434
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,719
Speaker 1: sounds a little bougie, a little bit, a little bit

435
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: wou um, but they're all meant to influence you in

436
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 1: some way. They call them like restorative tonics. And there's

437
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: one called to Elevate, for example, and that has St.

438
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 1: John's ward and rose and black currant in it. UM.

439
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: I haven't tested them out yet, but I will report back. Yeah,

440
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: oh yeah, please ye posted that. UM. Do you have

441
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 1: any favorites or any recipes you'd recommend. Yeah, I like

442
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: tart flavors, So I like a like switch ales or shrubs.

443
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: So switch is made with usually apple cide or vinegar,

444
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: water and ginger um. And then they're shrubs or syrups

445
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: that are made from fruit and um preserved with vinegar

446
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: and you can just mix that with sparkling water and

447
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 1: have kind of a refreshing but pungent drink. UM. If

448
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: you got about up at their spinoff website, healthy ish Um,

449
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: and you search for non alcoholic drinks, you'll get like

450
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: a bunch of sodas and agua fresca's, and that's kind

451
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: of a good place to start. I think, um, how

452
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:20,959
Speaker 1: do you how do you balance the flavors out when

453
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: you're dealing with when when you take away that main

454
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 1: booze punch. Yeah, it's it's a good question, and it's

455
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 1: it's tricky. Um, As I'm doing research for this book,

456
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 1: like that seems to be the thing that most bartenders

457
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: say is the hardest to achieve. Um. But I guess,

458
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: like anything, you know, you just have to taste and

459
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: tweet to your liking. Like most home cooks are likely

460
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,479
Speaker 1: going to be working with store bought juices right when

461
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: they're making any drinks at home, and that means they're

462
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: going to have something that's sweet yea, so you can

463
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: send it out with some sparkling water. You can balance

464
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 1: it with something tart or bitter or herbal. I think

465
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: you really just have to get in the kitchen and

466
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: are behind the bar and play. Yeah. Uh. Do do

467
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: you have any really strange sounding combinations that you have

468
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 1: found that really work? Yes? I mean, and I didn't

469
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 1: think they would work, but they do. Like this Mike Dtota,

470
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: I think that's how you say his last name, Tauta Toto. Sorry,

471
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: Mike at the Bonnie in a Storia, he makes sistern

472
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 1: called The Billows and Thieves, and it has great fruit

473
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 1: juice and cold brewed coffee, both which I thought was

474
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 1: going to be like way too bitter on bitter, but

475
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: it ends up making sense to the palate for whatever

476
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: reason that I can't explain. Maybe we have to ask

477
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: Harold McGee about the chemistry of that. But and then

478
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: Mike kind of smooth it out with like a cardamommy

479
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: cinnamon syrup. Um. Just just go trust me, it really

480
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: is good. I never would have thought. I mean, I've

481
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: heard of cold brewed coffee um in drinks, you know,

482
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: I've heard cold freud coffee with like some sparkling water

483
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: and a little lemon peel um, which I guess is

484
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: the same idea, right, Like the lemon rind is bitter

485
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: and you have that little bit of citrusy. But you know,

486
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,479
Speaker 1: a couple of pounds of grape frutjuice is another thing.

487
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: And I really did think it would work, but it does.

488
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: And he's also i'd say Mike is also really into

489
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: salting cocktails um, and so like in that one The

490
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: Billows and Thieves, he mixes in a smoked sea salt

491
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: um and it sounded strange to me, but I don't know,

492
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 1: I don't know why it should have. I mean, salt

493
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: elevates our food and intensifies the flavors in whatever we cook.

494
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 1: So it does the same thing to drinks like and

495
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 1: it's and it's not like we don't use salt in

496
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: some cocktails, like salted rams on a margarita or salt

497
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: in a bloody mary, right right, So this is just

498
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: more kind of mixed in. And so next time you

499
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: make a da gary for yourself at home, make one

500
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: with salt in the mix and one without, and taste

501
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: some side beside. I promise you will notice the difference

502
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: that the best kind of homework. Can um, popular alcoholic

503
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: drinks be replicated with non boozy products or is it

504
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: usually better to start? Yeah, I mean you'll have varying

505
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: opinions on this, I mean they can. And in fact,

506
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: there's a book coming onto the market soon. UM. It's

507
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: called Clean and Dirty Drinking, and the concept is to

508
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: provide two versions of each recipe like means alcohol and

509
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: a dirty with alcohol. UM. And that's by Um, a

510
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: pretty well respected bartender in Los Angeles, Like I have

511
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: no doubt that she UM will do that. Well, but

512
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: I have to admit I'm less interested in that, like

513
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: I have, um, a little less experience trying to muscle

514
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: a cocktail into something non alcoholic. Um, and I do.

515
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: I think it'd be tricky because the cocktail again starts

516
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: with that base spirit and then you're building other components

517
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,239
Speaker 1: around that flavor to balance it out. So when you

518
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: remove that base spirit, you're starting with a completely different canvas. Um.

519
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: But I really I want this. I want this category

520
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: to sort of like exists on its own and stand

521
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: tall on its own without sort of you know again,

522
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: that word mocktail implies that it's trying to be something

523
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: else when these are these are fully formed beverages in

524
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: their own right. Yeah. Oh yeah, um, I was. I

525
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: was just reminded of of how much I prefer meat

526
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: substitutes that aren't like chicken with an apostrophe somewhere in

527
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: the word, like if it's just tempted like that's that's yeah,

528
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: it doesn't need to taste like anyway. And we're over

529
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: the I think most of us see that now. Um,

530
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: So maybe we'll get over that hump with this too.

531
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: Oh I hope. So it sounds complicated though, do you

532
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: if someone is interested in starting to play with this

533
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: at home, like is it going to take a lot

534
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: of time and money or or are there kind of

535
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: products that they can start using to to build their base. Yeah,

536
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: I mean definitely there are products out there, and every

537
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: increasing amount of products like we mentioned before. But but

538
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: you know, like any category of drinks, there are various

539
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: commitment levels here, right, So sure you can smoke some

540
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: apples using wood chips, you know, and whip that into

541
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: something complicated and they use that example because someone in

542
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: Denmark actually does this. But you know, you can also

543
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: make a big batch of some kind of drinking vinegar

544
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: like the switch alser shrubs we were talking about, and

545
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: have it on hand, you know, for a couple of

546
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: weeks in the fridge to mix with water and play

547
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: around with. So I think, you know, it just depends. Um.

548
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: In fact, I think again, if this book happens, well, um,

549
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: I kind of want to have like a stamp on

550
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: each recipe that is about commitment level, like from one

551
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: to five. This is like how involved you need to

552
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: get or not, because I know, like I guess you

553
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: could read the recipe and get a sense of that,

554
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: but when you come home for the end like a cocktail.

555
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: It's punctuating the end of the day. You don't need

556
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: this for sustenance. You want it because it's a joy

557
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: or a pleasure. Um. And yeah, you're on wonding and

558
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: so it's usually about what you're craving. You think, like,

559
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: you know, do I want salty and cold martini? Do

560
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: I want something kind of warm? Um? And you want

561
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: it pretty immediately um or maybe one day you do

562
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: for whatever happened in your day previous to that, you

563
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: have the energy. I want people to be able to

564
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: like see immediately um. What's required of them to make

565
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: whatever drink? So um commitment level one to five, I

566
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: guess speaking of commitment level, uh there there there are

567
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: lots of bars that are experimenting with this, but there

568
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: are lots that are perhaps not. So. If you are

569
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: looking for a non alcoholic drink and you're out somewhere,

570
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: is there something that's easy to order for a bartender

571
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: who might not be like, be like, what shot of whiskey? Yeah?

572
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: Bitters and soda? You know, I mean, your average die

573
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: bar likely has some kind of bitter soda water and

574
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: a lime wedge. If you're lucky or if you want one,

575
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: and you know, and it's fizzy and blush toned and

576
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: a whole lot more interesting than a glass of water coke.

577
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: So um, I think, like, yes, even in dive bars, Uh,

578
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: you don't have to feel like a second class You're I.

579
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: That's one that I order, honestly all the time. Kind

580
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: of settles your tell me a little and it's nice

581
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: and it's so bitter, and I personally bitter is my

582
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: favorite flavor, so it makes me really happy. And I

583
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: guess there are bidders if you're truly sober. That's a

584
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: tricky one because bidders do have alcohol in them. And

585
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: even once you're you know, usually using an eye dropper

586
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: or just dashing in a couple, So once you have

587
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: it mixed with a you know, a bunch of bounces

588
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: of water, it's really trace amounts of alcohol. But again, technically,

589
00:32:58,080 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: if you've been through a program and you're trying to

590
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: drink at all, that's not going to cut it worth mentioning. Yeah,

591
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: or religiously speaking, you you do not consume alcohol right

592
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: for whatever reason. But um, I know one of your

593
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: questions was about like products at home, there are some

594
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: glycerin based Um, bidders are coming onto the market and

595
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: those don't have alcohol in them. So, um, I think

596
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: like bidders is something I would recommend people to like

597
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: start sucking their bars with if they want to play

598
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: around at home. And you can do that even if

599
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: you're um truly a non drinker, you know, right, there's

600
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: also been a rise in UM in like drinking vinegars

601
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: like cocha and stuff like that, or not that that's

602
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: a parallel one to one kind of thing. But would

603
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: that be a good base for trying to play around

604
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: with non alcohol? Yeah? Absolutely, I mean that would take

605
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: the place of, um, the shrub or the switcher we

606
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: were talking about before. Like Andy Ricker at pop Pock

607
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: he has this line of like pre batched drinking vinegars

608
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: and it's great. I mean, you can just put that

609
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: with some sparkling water and call it a day, or

610
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: you can sort of build a multiple component drink with that. Um,

611
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: I don't know yet what that would look like. When

612
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: I'm about to do a lot of in a drinking

613
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 1: on the road report back, absolutely gonna get what can

614
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: can mocktails be paired with food? How does how does

615
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: that whole thing? Unfortunately, guys, this is another one I

616
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: don't have a great answer to. But yeah, I mean,

617
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: yes they can, I don't. I don't totally know how yet. Like,

618
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 1: that's something I definitely want to focus on in this

619
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,479
Speaker 1: book because they're countless resources for how to pair beer, wine,

620
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 1: and cocktails with food and not so for this category

621
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: of drinks. Um And I really want readers to be

622
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: able to entertain a crowd of non drinkers, whether they

623
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: themselves drink or not. Um So, I want to have

624
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: a little guide to sort of flavor pairings. Um So again,

625
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 1: I'll report back because I take yeah, no, I mean

626
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: it's something that I've been thinking about because I think

627
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,919
Speaker 1: the cocktails pair really poorly with food most of the time,

628
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: because the cocktail is its own entire thing. Unless you're

629
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: really want unless you have built specifically a ish for

630
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: that cocktail, it's all going to get muddled. Which I

631
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 1: know is a pun, but sorry, um it's true. Opposed

632
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: to something like wine, which I think does have just

633
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: a relative simplicity that you bring out extra flavors. Now,

634
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: I think you're right up into some tasting dinners with

635
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: like full on cocktail pairings, and it it always just

636
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: feels not quite right, yum, the idea of it, and

637
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: then even when you're trying it, it's like, well, here's

638
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: here are you know, four flavors of the glass, and

639
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: then here are x many of flavors on the plate,

640
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: and it's just kind of over overload. Yeah. Absolutely. Um. So, okay,

641
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:39,879
Speaker 1: is is there a better word than mocktail? There must be? Yeah,

642
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: I mean mocktail it's cheesy. And also, as we were saying,

643
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: like it conveys that these drinks are trying to be cocktails,

644
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 1: when in fact there good drinks in their own right.

645
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't think we've quite hit it with

646
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: the terminology. Like I've heard spirit free cocktails, virgin of cocktails. Yeah,

647
00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 1: spirit free virgin cocktails, soft cocktails. Um, I kind of

648
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: like that. That's sort of my favorite one in the running.

649
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: Um zero proof cocktails. Um. I almost defiantly want to

650
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,879
Speaker 1: call them good drinks, like all of the other terms

651
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: sound like they're missing something or they're longing for something.

652
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: I mean, Unfortunately, good drinks doesn't quite convey like the

653
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: complexity of the non alcoholic cocktails that we're talking about,

654
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: Like a good drink could reference a cold pressed apple

655
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: juice or a particularly nuanced green tea or something. Um.

656
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: But soft cocktails I'm kind of liking, yeah, because it

657
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: makes sense with like soft drink soft tails share yeah,

658
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: as opposed to hard ones. Yeah. And you've written specifically

659
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: about mindful drinking culture before. Could you talk a little

660
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 1: bit about about that trend? Yeah? So I think this

661
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: pertains more to low alcohol drinks than no alcohol drinks,

662
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 1: at least in my mind. So as the mindfulness movement

663
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: has entertained the mainstream, right, so too has this has

664
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: mindful drinking. And I wrote a story about this a

665
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: couple of years ago for Playboy, And I talked to

666
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: Tristan Willie, who's a bartender in New York, and he um.

667
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: He said that his customers at the Long Island Bar,

668
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,720
Speaker 1: which is a great bar in Brooklyn, um kept making

669
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: requests like I want a martini, but could you put

670
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: a little less booze in it? Um? And which isn't

671
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: I mean that's an interesting increasing request And and his

672
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,439
Speaker 1: sherry stock is depleting more quickly than ever these days.

673
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: So like sherry and other fortified wines are relatively low

674
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: and alcohol by volume, they clock in at like fifteen

675
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: compared with gin, which runs about Um. I think I

676
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: have that right. So these lighter styles of drinks are

677
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: definitely trending. There's the sprits category, um, which is basically,

678
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: you know, you have either and a pair of teef

679
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: like liquor like a Saint Germaine or a bit or

680
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,919
Speaker 1: like an April or even a hard spirit topped off

681
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 1: with sparkling wine and some soda water. Um. And I'm

682
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: just seeing those everywhere, like are you yeah? And like

683
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: like Chelsea Handler, who's a famous drinker, can't shut up

684
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: about Aprile's Versus on her Netflix show. I'm like this, Okay, Okay,

685
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: the vodka queen is drinking Apprile's versus something that's happening. Um.

686
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: And they are, yeah, they are. And and like it's

687
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: sort of a cocktail summarized, you know. I mean, it's

688
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 1: light and bright and doesn't weigh you down from the

689
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 1: again the heavy amount of alcohol. Um. And I think

690
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: another piece of that for some is that the low

691
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: alcohol thing can also be about drinking more um. Like

692
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: like Okay, Matt Toko, he's the beverage director of Strategic

693
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 1: Hospitality that's in Nashville, and he said he has the

694
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 1: tolerance of a small gerbil Um, but he likes to

695
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: try a lot of different things and so like low

696
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: alcohol drinks like an Americano made with campari and vermouth

697
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: and club soda that works for him. UM and Tristan

698
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: again who I mentioned Um works at Long Island Bar,

699
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 1: like he serves many kind of snack sized negronis, So

700
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: you could have one of those before dinner and then

701
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: also have some wine with dinner and not feel um

702
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: floated down. And then like in Tokyo there's a spar

703
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: called jin Yamamoto and they offer Oma Cosse flights of

704
00:38:55,560 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: four to six two ounce cocktails. Um so agead. I

705
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 1: guess you can think of it as like drinking less

706
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: to drink more, And it's sort of like the top

707
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: as idea right, Like we are share plates, like we

708
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,959
Speaker 1: all we are palettes are more kind of open minded

709
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 1: than ever before. We want to try a bunch of

710
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: different things, and so if you have a little bits

711
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: of them or sharing them with a table, you can

712
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: have you know, five dishes or taste five dishes instead

713
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: of two. Um. And it's kind of I'm seeing that

714
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: with drinks a little bit awesome. Yeah. I think I

715
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: read somewhere that um, some I can't remember anything about

716
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: it at all. Like the point of the story. It

717
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 1: was about a bartender New York and he was saying,

718
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: a lot of business people come in and they want

719
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: to have like the whole culture is, we've got to

720
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: have a drink together, but they don't want to get wasted.

721
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 1: You're a business meeting, So they have one real drink

722
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: and then they go real drink cocktail and then they

723
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: go and get like just make it but without them,

724
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: so I don't get drunk during this meeting. So I

725
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: think it's a miss people misunderstand, like they always think

726
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: it's pregnant women that are buying these drinks. But there

727
00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: is a big market for it, and I think the

728
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: quick the bars start experimenting with it and offering these

729
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: options some more money for them. Yeah, and hopefully overall,

730
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 1: like will become less ashamed to not drink. I mean

731
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: there's that sort of bro thing about the team. As

732
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: you were saying, these business people, like the guys or

733
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: girls who drink together, you know, work well together or

734
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 1: whatever it is. I'm curious whether or not that person

735
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: asks the bartender to make the drink without booze on

736
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: the side. Yeah, I wondered that too. I Uh, this

737
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: this was a number of years ago, and it was

738
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: very much part of a like like post college bro

739
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: culture kind of group of friends that I had. But

740
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: they loved Yager shots and I hate Hager and so

741
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: at this local bar that we went to, it turned

742
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: into this thing like I took the waitresses side one

743
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: day and I was like, can you give me a

744
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: shot of coke? And she was like yeah, and I'm like,

745
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: I will tip you extra, thank you. And so every

746
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 1: time every time they ordered Yeager shots, I would be like, hey,

747
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: wink wink, and she would bring me and she would

748
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: bring me a shot of Coca Cola so I could

749
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: do the shot with them and be included in the

750
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: group and not have the like weird stigma like oh,

751
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 1: you're not doing a shot with us, like all right,

752
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: like whatever that is. And probably they are more impressed

753
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 1: because you went harder. Well, I'm interested in that stigma

754
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: falling away, for sure. And I think like there have

755
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: been some great and a books on the market that

756
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: um do address food pairings that are thorough um, but

757
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: they're not cool. And I think, like I'm working with

758
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 1: a friend of mine who's an art Directorate wired um

759
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: who just has like really great taste and we're kind

760
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: of you know. I want to make the fonts and

761
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 1: the images especially. I want the images to be I

762
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: hate using this word, but I mean I want them

763
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: to be pornographic. I want to even get like really

764
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: close on a glass and show the beating and show

765
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 1: the sort of like color glowing phone within because historically

766
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: this has not been a sexy category and so really

767
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 1: with the design of this book, I want to be

768
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: like show how you know, it's cool. It's cool to

769
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: to like not be wasted. Yeah, it really is sound

770
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:08,439
Speaker 1: cool to just enjoy enjoy what you're drinking. Yeah, just

771
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: only have like your options are a coke or water. Right,

772
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: that's it. That's right. So many friends that when when

773
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 1: I was a kid, there was this restaurant, um it

774
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: was a local Mexican restaurant. They would always order the

775
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: Shirley Temples, and it was so excited about it, so excited,

776
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: and I think they would still order those if you

777
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 1: could find them they had more options. I can only

778
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: imagine how happy they love a Shirley Temple. I ordered

779
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: that as a little girl on my family and I

780
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: would go out to restaurants. Yeah, there there will be

781
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: one in the book. There will be yeah, maybe in

782
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 1: a coop. Yeah, there is something. There is something. Oh

783
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 1: and I hate myself and our culture a little bit

784
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: for saying it, but there is something sexy about having

785
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: having one of those I mean in the elegant glass

786
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: w you know, and it's beautiful and it's cold, and

787
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: there's the whole sensory thing. It's a beautiful prop you know,

788
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: and like you should absolutely drink any drinks in those glasses, right, yeah, totally. Well,

789
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us, Julia. How you

790
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: can people find you if they want to hear from

791
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: some more, some more from you. I am on Twitter

792
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: and Instagram as Julia Bainbridge. That's j U l I

793
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: A B A N B R I D g um

794
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: and at Julia Bainbridge dot com you can see a

795
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: selection of my writing. And then The Lonely Hour is

796
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 1: at the Lonely Hour dot com or you can find

797
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 1: it on any of your podcatchers like stit, try Tunes,

798
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: Google Play, blah blah blah blah blah. Awesome, Thank you,

799
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: thank you so that brings us to the end of

800
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: this are delightful interview with Julia Bainbridge. Yes, oh so delightful.

801
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 1: Um back when we had people come out to a

802
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 1: studio and sit around a table together that wild I

803
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: barely do at this juncture. Um, but yeah, so so

804
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 1: the okay, so so the summer after we recorded this interview,

805
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: the sum Julia wound up driving across the country visiting

806
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: all of these bartenders and other other cocktail professionals and

807
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: trying they're non alcoholic offerings and and learning about all

808
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: these different ingredients and preparations that they were using at

809
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: the time. And oh and yes, I am so glad

810
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: that she went with the title good Drinks. Yeah, that

811
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: is a great title. And um, this is an episode

812
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: that really stuck with me because it was one I

813
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,479
Speaker 1: just never really thought about how there weren't that many

814
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: options other than an alcoholic drink or soda, and there

815
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: should be. There should and you can have a good drink, yes,

816
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 1: that doesn't have alcohol in it. And I'm I'm excited

817
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: that this is becoming more and more of a thing.

818
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: You can find it in more and more places. Yeah,

819
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: because right, there's all kinds of reasons that you might

820
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: want to not have a drink alcohol in it, you know,

821
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 1: be it at all or tonight or this month or

822
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,720
Speaker 1: for this round, as as Julia is fond of saying.

823
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: By the way, she's been nominated for a James Beard

824
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: Award in Home Cooking Journalism. So you know that you

825
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: put together some really good clear recipes. Um, they're over

826
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: fifty of them in this book. There are instructions on

827
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: how to batch them for when we do get to

828
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 1: have parties again. And each is labeled with a commitment level,

829
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: so you know, you know what kind of project you're

830
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: getting yourself into. Very handy. Yes, Um, so yeah, we're

831
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: we're like not we're like not her publicity team. We're

832
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 1: we're just we're just fans. Um. So I'm I do

833
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: not currently have the book in my hands as I

834
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 1: am saying this, but I look forward to getting a

835
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 1: copy soon. And yeah, if you would like to do

836
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,840
Speaker 1: the same thing, uh, you can. It's again the title

837
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: is Good Drinks and um you can look for it

838
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: on on whatever physical or digital shelf you find your

839
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: books on the dig adual shelf that sounds like, oh

840
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 1: those kind of memory palaces things. Oh sure, and and

841
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: then somebody digital shelf get into your memory palace. But

842
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 1: then they can't figure out your layout. Yeah, I think

843
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: about these things clearly, yes, um. And you can also

844
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: find Julia online. She's on the social media she is

845
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: um and uh and she also has a podcast of

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00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: her own. I can't remember. I can't remember if we

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00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 1: talked about that. Um. I listened to this episode a

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00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: couple of days ago, so I'm not I'm not totally

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00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 1: positive anymore. Anything could have happened in between them and now. UM.

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00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, she's on a podcast called The Lonely Hour UM,

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00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 1: which is about kind of the the virtues of and

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00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: then the benefits of living of being by yourself, which

853
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: also very fitting at the current moment. Yes, yes, so

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00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,919
Speaker 1: definitely go check those things out. And if you would

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00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 1: to contact us, oh you can. We have an email.

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00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: It is hello at favorite pod dot com. We're also

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00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,

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00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 1: and Instagram at savor pod and we do hope to

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00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 1: hear from you. Savor is a production of our Heart Radio.

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00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: For more podcasts to my heart Radio, you can visit

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00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 1: the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

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00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super

863
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for

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00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: listening and we hope that lots market things are coming

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Speaker 1: your way.