WEBVTT - Jen Statsky 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.480 This is me, Craig Ferguson. I'm inviting you to come 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:05.920 and see my brand new comedy hour. Well it's actually 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:07.400 it's about an hour and a half and I don't 0:00:07.440 --> 0:00:10.000 have an opener because these guys cost money. But what 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:13.000 I'm saying is I'll be on stage for a while. Anyway, 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:15.560 Come and see me live on the Pants on Fire 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:19.720 Tour in your region. Tickets our own sale now, and 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:23.160 we'll be adding more as the tour continues throughout twenty 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:26.960 twenty five and beyond. For a full list of dates, 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.280 go to the Craig Ferguson show dot com. See you 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:35.000 on the road, my DearS. My name is Craig Ferguson. 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:39.440 The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:46.280 interesting people about what brings them happiness. Hello, my DearS, 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:49.400 Now look for my money. One of the best shows 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:52.800 on TV right now is the show called Hacks, which 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:56.880 is on HBO or Max or whatever they call it now. 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:00.560 But it's a great show. It's co created by my 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.920 guest today. It was a fascinating a very very clever 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:16.839 individual by the name of James Statsky. Enjoy. You see, 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.240 that's how they're doing TV. You just go five four 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.120 three two, and then you don't see anything else in 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:24.319 the one I have works on TV in ages though 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:26.360 you still work in DV Do they still do that? 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:27.920 Oh no, you do single cameras, so. 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:31.200 I do single camera. But so there's no there's no countdown. 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.080 But I'm trying to remember because I started in Late Night, 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:35.400 and I think we had a countdown. 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:37.679 I think we had the five four three two. 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:41.720 Yeah, you were on Jimmy's Chauffeur. That was your first gig, 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:42.200 wasn't it that. 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:43.640 That was my first job. 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:45.960 That was my first writing job, Late Night with Jimmy 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:47.400 Fallon back in twenty eleven. 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:50.440 So you were You were doing that at the same 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:53.120 time I was doing yeah late night. 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.400 Yeah, we're both. Did you child from Late Night? I 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:57.960 did watch your show, Yes, of course. 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:02.120 Yes, you are an excellent interviewer, which I'm sure you've 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:03.760 been told many times over the years. 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:08.200 Thank you. I feel like that it is an odd, 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:13.440 weird skill. Did you ever see the movie Demolition Man. 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:15.359 It's one of Sandra Bullok's early movies. 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:16.760 No, I never did. 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.639 There's a Sandra Bullock movie called Demolition Man, and I 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:23.480 call it Sandra Bulok movie. He's a Sylvester stallone movie 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:28.240 and he's Sylvester Stone and Wesley Snipes and he gets 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:31.480 cryogenically frozen and then has to catch a criminal in 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:33.880 the future. A lot of movies were like that back 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:39.760 in the day. During his cryogenics, he the computer implanted 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:42.320 in his head that he knew how to knit. It 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.760 was a joke in the film, and he was mystified 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:48.440 by that. And that's like my skills for interviewing. I 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:52.440 have no idea where I came about that. I certainly 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:56.440 didn't study for it or have I any academic training, 0:02:57.240 --> 0:02:59.200 but I feel like I can do it. 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:01.720 I think you're right, Yeah, you definitely can't. 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:04.799 Did you find, like before you became a host that 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:09.680 like in conversations, like you're good at like being interested 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:11.799 in people and asking them questions like did it feel 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:14.680 natural visa viu moving through the world? 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.639 That kind of was a skill. No, not at all. 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:22.120 In fact, I'm quite misanthropic. I am. I'm quite shy, 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.519 and but aggressively shy. So I don't just like go 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:28.640 oh oh, I'm like we want to go keep away 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:30.400 from me? That kind of shy, you know what I mean? 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:35.240 I suspect, you know, I write a lot, and I 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:37.880 know that that is what you do a lot of 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:40.320 and I think a lot of people who write are 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:44.800 quite like that. There are you like that. I'm like 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:45.240 that too. 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.560 I'm pretty like one on one I really like to 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:49.560 connect with the person. 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.640 But if I'm like at a party, I'm definitely going 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:54.880 to be the person probably talking the least and a 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:58.520 little bit quiet, which sometimes comes off as like standoffish, 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:02.040 and people think you're like not the friendliest, but it's 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:03.120 it's not that it at all. 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:08.280 It's not. It's more that I am, yeah, just kind 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:09.520 of more internal. 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.840 I think we should speak out against parties. I think 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:17.160 the parties are being forced on as by people who 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.440 like parties. But yeah, I really like parties that much. 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:22.360 A small group of people is all right, go out 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:24.360 for there, maybe go and see something. 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:30.120 But sure, sure I like a party, but there's it's 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.800 brutal when you are not in the mood for one 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:33.560 and you have to go. 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:37.600 That is that's one of life's worst situations to be in. 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:39.440 I can't think of the last time I was in 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:44.160 the mood for a party, or even two parties. But 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:46.840 let me just say this though, I have to say this, 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.880 right now, which is congratulations on the success of Hacks 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:55.560 and thanks. I think just someone who's it's very rare, 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.360 like you know, like when people cops, when they watch 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.240 cop shows, go a, that's not what it's really like 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.040 being a call. Yeah, well I bore attacks now like 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.880 as exactly what it's like, as exactly thank. 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.560 You, that is exactly just like that is such a 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:12.480 lovely compliment, and it means so much coming from you, 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:15.240 you know, like when we started making the show, we 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:19.159 were like, this is a horrible tightrope walk we're doing, 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:23.000 which is to portray a comedy portraying comedians and the 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:26.360 life of a comedian. And we always said like if 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:30.320 real stand ups and now late night hosts like yourself 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:33.479 can watch it and feel like it is capturing something real, 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.400 will have you know, kind of cleared that this really 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:37.799 high bar we said for ourselves. 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:39.920 So it really means a lot to hear that from you. 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.200 Well so much so. The truth of it is this 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:48.279 that the relationship between the two main protagonists and Hikes, 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.200 it's so similar to a relationship that I have with 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:54.479 a guy who is now writes for me all the time. 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:58.440 Oh ah, who was on my show. I know if 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:01.280 you remember, he stopped off as an intern and he 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.600 became the front end of the pantomime Horse used to 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.560 dance around. Well, now he writes all the time. He 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.159 produces for Netflix and stuff like that, and he writes 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:13.839 for me. Joe Bolter is Joe Bolter? 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:14.239 Okay? 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:17.440 Yeah right? And Joe and I so much. So. When 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:20.680 I saw the first season of Hacks, I called Joe 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:22.400 and I said, are you in the writer's room on 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:22.880 that show? 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:24.040 You? 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:25.920 Are you being doing stuff on that show? And he 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:29.039 said no, he said, but I've seen it and it's spooky. 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.720 There are episodes there was I think it was the 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:35.039 first season, could have been the second. You'll know, I'm 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:38.440 sure when Debra says, we have to go to Vegas, 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:40.120 and they go to Vegas and then they you know, 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:42.840 they go in a plane somewhere and they come back 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:45.440 and mix it up with my own life. I said 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.280 to Joe once, I'm doing a show in Vegas, and 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:50.560 he said, I can't come. I have to see my parents. 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:53.240 I said, we'll be back by ten o'clock. And when 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.080 I took him to Van Night's Airport and we got 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:56.560 on this plane and we go out to the Las 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:57.960 Vegas and we did the show, we came back. It 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.480 was all done in two hours, three hours maybe, and 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:04.720 if there was something like that in Hacks And he 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:08.200 was like, it's so the same, right down to our 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:13.840 argument about comedy. When I would be very cranky about, 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:17.960 you know, the new rules of comedy, and he would say, 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:20.080 there are no new rules of comedy. You just have 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:26.160 to be funny, which I think is possibly true. There 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:29.240 was a time there when I was very worried about 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.720 the dogma of the next generation of comedy, but I'm 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:35.800 not anymore. I think it's really funny. 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:39.240 You were worried because you felt like we were treading 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:44.000 into a place where we weren't, Like comedy wasn't being 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:44.760 valued or. 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:45.960 What was it that was worrying you. 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.440 I think more it was about the idea. And you've 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:54.200 had Debra say these words like it's great to see 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:57.360 a character where you go, yes, yes, that's right, you know, 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:59.840 and then you realize, wait, this is the cranky old lady, 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.720 myocracy old lady. Right, I kind of have a little 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:08.680 bit yeah, but it's the idea that I think for 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:10.920 a while, I don't believe this anymore, but I did 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:13.600 for a while there think that they're saying, or the 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:17.160 young people are saying, that certain areas of comedy are 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:19.040 off limits and you can't make jokes about that, which 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.120 I don't believe. I believe that you must be able 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:24.560 to make jokes about whatever you can make funny. It's 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:26.680 not like there are taboo subjects. I think that that. 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:31.120 I mean, there's bad jokes, but I think tabli yeah, 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:37.800 you know, yeah, and that. But also the retrogression look 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:41.360 at material that you had done before attitudes changed, and 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:45.680 picking up on that was a very weird thing because like, well, 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:47.680 I did that joke ten years ago, I wouldn't. 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:49.720 Do it now, you know, right, right, And that's very 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:52.120 much so, you know, we did that last season when 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.240 Deborah goes back to her alma mater college and is 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:58.040 taken to task by the students there for old material, 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.120 and we very much wanted to have this exact conversation 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:04.840 that you're saying and kind of talk about, Yes, times change, 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:08.200 and you know, there's things that we were joking about 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:09.920 at the time and now we have moved on and 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:13.079 understand as a society that that was not right. And 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:17.400 you know, it's a conversation between feeling what Debora feels 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:19.839 is she feels very like persecuted in that moment, and 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.040 she's like, but I've always tried to be on the 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.319 right side of history. I just had these jokes that 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:26.040 at the time went right, and Ava was sort of 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:29.280 saying yes. And it's also the right of people who 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:31.400 hear those jokes down to say like this is this 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.880 is painful and this was not great, and there's an understanding. 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:36.760 Like you know, one thing we're always trying to do 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.560 with the show is have each character be both right 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:44.559 and wrong, because it's amazing. It's way more interesting to 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.320 see a conversation between two people where they're both right 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:49.959 and wrong, versus like if Deborah was just wholly in 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:53.600 the wrong, it's less of an interesting conversation. So that one, 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:57.000 in particular, was you know, really important for us to 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.840 do because that is such a conversation in comedy these days. 0:09:59.920 --> 0:10:02.319 Like you're saying, it's funny. 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:04.839 The interesting thing about it as well, And what what 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:07.319 I very much like about the portrayal of Debra is 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:12.000 that it's unapologetic. It's it's very kind of she's still funny, 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:16.800 you know, which I love that the idea of it, 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.360 did you have this because I mean, it seems funny 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:22.640 to say this to you, but you you're kind of 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:25.679 you get to the point of veteran status. Now I've 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:30.080 been doing it for a while. I know it's weird 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:33.040 how fast it happens. As well, it is like, oh 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:34.480 my god, I know it's great. 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.040 Well talking about like starting on you know, Fallen was 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.120 my first job and I was twenty for twenty five 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.400 years old when I got that job, and like now 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:45.120 I've been doing it now, I'm thirty nine, Like I've 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:48.120 been doing it for a decade and a half, and 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.520 it feels crazy, like you're saying, because I still feel 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:54.240 like that kid who started in dirty rock, like writing 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:55.720 monologue jokes for Jimmy. 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:58.640 So yeah, it is. 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:02.000 It's it's wild to kind of have had the luck 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:04.240 that I've had in this career and gotten to move 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:06.959 from late night to now making Hacks and all the 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:08.920 shows I've been lucky enough to work on in between. 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:11.400 Yeah, because you worked in the Good Place as well, 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:16.960 which was another kind of groundbreaker, is another real wonderful show. 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:18.800 Yeah, the Good Place. 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:21.079 You know, I value my time on that show so 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.000 much and make sure who created that, you know, did 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:26.120 something so brilliant with that show, which was it was 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:30.439 a network sitcom, but it was so original in its 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:32.640 idea and its conception and what we were trying to 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:34.280 do with the stories we were trying to do. 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:37.800 And so yeah, I feel really lucky to have to 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:38.559 have worked on that. 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:46.280 Hello, this is Greig Ferguson and I want to let 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:48.320 you know I have a brand new stand up comedy 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:52.240 special out now on YouTube. It's called I'm So Happy, 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.839 and I would be so happy if you checked it out. 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:58.400 To watch the special, just go to my YouTube channel 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.480 at the Craig Ferguson Show and is this right there? 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.599 Just click it and play it and it's free. I 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:06.319 can't look. I'm not going to come around you, husband 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:07.600 and show you how to do it. If you can't 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:08.959 do it, then you can have it. But if you 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:15.000 can figure it out, it's yours, the three of you 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:19.760 that came up with hacks. Therese you and remind me 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:21.199 Paul W. 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:22.439 Dwan's and Lucianello. 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:26.599 Yeah right, And did you all come up together? Is 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:28.680 that something that? Do you all know each other earlier? 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:28.959 Yes? 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:30.959 It was came organically from that. 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:35.760 Yeah, we basically all met doing like sketch and improv 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.240 and stand up in New York City. So back in 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:42.760 like Lucci and I my senior year at NYU, I 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:44.600 was in this sketch group that was kind of an 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:48.040 offshoot of the Upright Citizens Brigade theater, and Lucci and 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.280 I were the only girls in the sketch group, and 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.360 we kind of instantly gravitated towards each other in our 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:56.400 senses of humor. And I really loved her and thought 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.040 she was so so talented. And then she introduced me 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:02.599 to Paul, and they had been doing sketches as a 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.800 two man group and making things and Paul, you know 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.199 again same just instantly was like, Oh, these are the 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:12.160 funniest people, and just had a real instant kinship and 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:13.839 knew that I wanted to work with them. 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:16.480 Is it something that still exists? Do you make each 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.880 other laugh in the writer's room still? We do? Yeah? Yeah, 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:20.160 we do. 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:24.280 You know, we kind of show Oh thanks, yeah, we really. 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.599 You know, when we started the show, we made a 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.360 promise to ourselves that we wouldn't ever let it interfere 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:32.360 with our friendship, but we would always try to like 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.880 protect that first and always kind of honor the fact 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:39.880 that this started because we just genuinely loved making each 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.640 other laugh and try to hold on to that as 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.280 we move through the process. And I think that like 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:48.920 that is only proven more and more true as we've 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.160 gone on, because as the show has been successful, and 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.319 we've been lucky to have this show be successful, like, 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.439 the bigger it gets, you actually kind of can't take 0:13:57.520 --> 0:13:59.360 it all in and think about that if you start 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.559 thinking about doing it for a review or doing it 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:04.520 for an award, it just kind of can. It can 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.400 be overwhelming and eat away at you. And so I 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.080 think even the bigger the show has gotten, the more 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:13.560 wheeling into trying to just rely on like does Paul 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:16.040 think this good? Does Lucia think this is good? And 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:18.240 then expanding it out through there like do our writers 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:19.640 think this is good? And the other people who work 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.040 in the show thing is good? And trying to keep 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:23.440 it concentrated like that. 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:29.320 Yeah, It's an interesting thing because the idea of success 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:34.520 is such an odd kind of ingredient creatively, I think 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:39.320 it does very odd things to creative people. It does 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:43.040 odd things to anyone. Yeah, but if you add success 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.760 and fame and then there is this thing. I remember 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.120 the example I will give you is this is that 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:53.400 when I started in late night, people immediately began ask 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.280 me because I was working for David Letterman behind a 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.600 worldwide pants and Dave was doing the eleven thirty show 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:04.280 and I was doing twelve thirty. And immediately people started saying, 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.160 are you going to take over from Dave? Like before 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.120 I even started, right, And I said, no, I have 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:13.520 no interest in that, that's not my thing, and they they, 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:17.560 and also, I'm just starting this job. And it almost 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:21.880 seems like in the world of show business. I don't 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.520 gonna say, Hollywood, but it's so much kind of not 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:27.600 that anymore. But in the world of show business, it 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:31.160 seems to me people used to say, what have you 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:35.120 done lately? Now it seems to be it's what are 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.800 you doing next? Well, you haven't done, Yeah, it is 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:38.560 more important. 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.320 Yeah, I used to It's so interesting you bring this 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:42.840 up because I used to think this all the time, 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.720 because when I was lucky enough to be a staff 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.040 writer on like Parks and Recreation or The Good Place 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:51.040 or broad City, people would always say, but when are 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:52.440 you going to do your own show? But you want 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.160 to run your own show, right, And of course I 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:57.360 did eventually go on to do that with Hucks. But 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:00.880 it was such an interesting thing that people kind of 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.600 put you on this ladder, even if you yourself are 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.720 not thinking that way. And it's very much so like, 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:08.840 but what's the next thing, what's the next thing? Which 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:13.280 is really counterintuitive to your process as an artist because 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:15.880 you really are just trying to stay present and focus 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.400 on making the thing you're doing in that moment good. 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:21.800 Well it's and also it's an odd thing because I 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.080 get it's ten years since I left Late Night, right, 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:27.680 and people say to me, you know, they still say 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.320 less so now because they're all dead to the people 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:33.320 who remember that I was on TV. But the well 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.240 people will say why did you leave? And I said, look, 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.320 it's mental health. It's like this if I don't know 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.400 how other people deal with it. But if I walk 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:43.920 into a building every day, every five days a week, 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:48.080 and there are pictures of me everywhere, but everywhere I 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:52.120 go with those giant pictures of me, and then there's 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:56.000 all the stationary all the paper has my name on it, 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:59.320 and my name is everywhere, and there's me everywhere, and 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:01.880 there's a hundred fifty people in the building and all 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:04.480 they are doing is making sure I am in a 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:07.800 good mood. Nobody wants to bring me any bad news, 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.200 know what. They want me to be good for the show. Yeah, 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:13.760 that makes you fucking crazy, Dan. 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:14.879 I know that's crazy. 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:18.600 It's really wild because you're one of like ten people 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:20.720 right that I could talk to about this because I 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:23.159 lived on the other side of that, like when I 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:27.040 started fell in and this was not you know, Jimmy 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:28.639 didn't say to say this. 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.160 This was coming from someone who worked for him. 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:33.960 He said, fifty percent of this job is writing good 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.760 jokes and fifty percent is being friends with Jimmy. That 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:40.920 was like, that was the attitude that people around you had. 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.360 And I'm sure, as you're saying, you didn't even put 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.960 that out there. You didn't come in and say I 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:49.879 need everything to revolve around me and everybody needs to 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.320 be doing all these things to make me happy. 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:54.000 But it happens. 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:57.000 It's just what it does when there is a central 0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:00.359 figure at the head of a show that well, I 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.360 don't know, it's kind of this like almost like it's 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:07.119 like a king in the kingdom, like all the people 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:10.200 in the court doing all these machinations to like make 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.920 him happy. But then also kind of like it turns 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.080 into people being cut throat with each other because everybody's 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:20.760 trying to protect this one person and their. 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.480 Access to that person. And it occurs to you, this 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:25.600 is what I'm interested because in the next season, you're 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:28.720 putting Debra in that position. You're putting Debora into being 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:31.000 a late night host, which I love, and I want 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:33.560 to get to that because it's very important thing. I 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.920 want to talk to you about that. But the idea 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.760 of this thing occurs. I've once heard about David Letterman 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:44.359 before I was ever on the show, before I was 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.200 ever on Dave's show, somebody had said, oh, no, you're 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:49.920 not allowed to look Dave directly in the eye. You 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:53.440 must correctly, and I if you walk down recorder, you 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:55.880 have to look away. And I was like, really, And then, 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.480 you know, I've since met David's quite a lot. And 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:00.480 if I didn't look up in the eye, think I 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:04.400 was weird. You know, Yeah, I think he thinks I'm 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.560 weird anyway. But the idea of that was so odd 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:09.880 to me, and I heard that. Then I heard about 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.960 Jennifer Lopez. For some reason, she was against Donna. It 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:14.639 wasn't even my show. She was in the building and 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:16.639 someone said, don't look at her directly, and it was 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:20.159 always this same phrase, don't look at that directly in 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:23.320 the eye. Oh my god, I've never heard that. And 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:25.520 then I heard that about five different people. And then 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:30.040 I heard that about myself. Oh no way, yeah, somebody said, 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:33.200 oh I heard that, some one of an old friend 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:36.680 of a writer who was you know who I brought 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:38.359 into the show, who's an old friend of mine from 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:40.560 the old Country, and he was like, what's this. Don't 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.000 look you directly in the eye. Shit. It was like, 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.720 oh my god, don't know what you're talking about. 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:47.879 Right, And that must be really crazy to be a 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:50.000 public crazy. 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.679 Yeah, it makes you crazy. I could. When Seth Meyers started, 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:55.679 he called me up and he said, I'm very excited 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:57.639 and he was just phoning all the other hosts and 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:00.720