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Want to boost your immunity and protect your community. 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:37.040 Get a COVID nineteen booster. They help keep you and 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:39.920 others safe from the virus and its variants this season 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:42.440 and beyond. If it's been at least six months since 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:45.040 your last dose of viser or maderna, or at least 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:47.000 two months since your last dose of J and J, 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.000 it's time for a booster. Visit my Turn dot c 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:53.040 A dot gov to find a booster near you. Let's 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:56.120 keep our immunity strong. Get your booster and a flu 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:58.120 shot while you're at it. Two brought to you by 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:02.400 the California Department of Public Health. Do you suffer from 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:05.400 zoom fatigue? Auto dot ai is here to help. Use 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:08.280 atter dot ai to get automatic meeting notes. You can 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:10.319 even step away from the meeting and catch up any 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.319 time it started for free at atter dot ai or 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:17.240 download in the app stores. That's otter dot ai. M 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:23.760 hm hm. Mr Rogers tried to get us to be 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:27.920 our best self. That's a phrase that you know, we 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:30.119 hear variations of it a lot now, right, like live 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:34.480 your best life, be your best self. What we usually 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:38.880 mean by that now is seek pathways to your own 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:43.640 joy and the kind of self celebration you want to experience, 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:45.839 which I think is great and I am a firm 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:49.240 believer in that self love is really radical and important. 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:54.360 But when we say that Mr Rogers wanted people to 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:58.960 be their best self, there's something about like just encouraging 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:02.120 people to be good, right, to be good and to 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.360 be kind to themselves and to other people that I 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:11.000 actually think is a really rare message. I don't know 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:16.920 who is telling children or anyone be kind, you know, 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.160 and in a way that is lived out in their 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:27.640 example and not like moralizing or pedantic or condescending. Fred 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:32.480 Rogers is everywhere right now, on T shirts and calendars 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:36.160 and coffee mugs. There's a movie and multiple books, articles 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:40.080 and major magazines and of course this podcast. And it 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:43.000 seems to me the reason we're seeing him everywhere is 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:47.160 that we believe, collectively there's something in what he taught 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:53.080 us that we need right now. But are we understanding 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:57.280 the right thing about him and his work? Or are 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:00.720 we just in love with the niceness, the nostalgia, the 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.640 feel good. Not that those are bad things in and 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:08.600 of themselves, but are they enough? Is it enough to 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:10.919 fall in love with this idea that each of us 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:16.440 is likable? Is that even the right idea? Because I 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:21.840 don't think that's all there was to his message. I'm 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:25.800 Carvil Wallace and this is Finding Fred, a podcast about 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:29.400 Fred Rogers from High Heart Media and Fatherly in partnership 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:40.200 with Transmitter Media. Fred Rogers grew up during the Depression, 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:44.200 through World War Two and the Holocaust. He had seen 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:46.840 how horrible people could be to one another, and his 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:50.680 show spoke to that. It launched just months before Bobby 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.800 Kennedy's assassination, and Fred made a p s A in 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.760 response to it, and just a few weeks after he 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:00.360 officially retired, he made another p s A right after 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:04.120 September eleven. We've talked about how Fred didn't want to 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.600 do the announcement at all in the face of such 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:10.680 enormous violence and tragedy. He said he couldn't see how 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:14.840 it would do any good, but he did it anyway. 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:18.479 The writer and educator e Viewing, who you remember from 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:22.080 episode two, was watching there's this video that I've watched 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:26.600 a lot where he addresses us as adults. You know. 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.600 He's saying, sometimes I see you all on the streets. 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:31.400 I run into you, those of you who grew up 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.920 in the neighborhood, you know, And when I see you, 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:37.000 I tell you, just like I did when you were 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:40.880 very small, that I'm just so proud of you, you know, 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:44.400 and I like you just the way you are. A 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:46.920 lot of people who heard Fred's p s A took 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:51.880 comfort in his message look for the helpers. But Eve 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:56.640 heard something else. He is talking to you as an individual, 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:59.000 but now as an adult, and that's his opportunity to 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.080 say something else or to like break this character and 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:05.120 the thing he chooses to say is I still see you. 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:09.440 I'm still proud of you and see the child in you. 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.560 And I think that when we talk about forgiving people 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:15.920 and not believing in monsters, to me, that's what much 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:19.400 of that amounts to, is knowing that everybody was somebody's child, 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:22.239 you know, who has been hurt, or who has been afraid, 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:25.320 or who's been trying their best to learn, or who's 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:28.360 been trying to be resilient in a difficult situation. We've 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:30.800 talked about what it means to do what Fred did, 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:35.359 listen carefully and speak to the children inside people. But 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:37.839 what are we supposed to do when the child is 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:43.200 afraid and acting out, throwing tantrums and destroying things. What 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:45.200 are we supposed to do when the child inside other 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:49.000 people makes them dangerous and destructive, and when that's making 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:52.120 us feel afraid like we want to lash out and 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:55.920 hurt people who are hurting us. What are we supposed 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:58.880 to do then? And who can show us how to 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:04.560 act in a world like this one here today? My 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:08.080 mom told me all the time and continues to tell me, 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.320 that you know, your responsibility is to be a light bringer, 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:15.520 and your job is to be a door opener, not 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:21.000 a gatekeeper. And all of us have that grandma, that neighbor, 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:23.839 that uncle, that guy on the corner store. You know. 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:27.000 I remember like riding the train with my mom and 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:29.400 we didn't have a car, and going down to the 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.200 train station and there was this South Asian man who 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.960 ran the convenience store in the train station, and you know, 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:37.799 whenever we went to get on the train, he would 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:40.839 give me like a small caramel square, you know, those 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.840 like little cubes, just like a no brand, no name, 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.400 like caramel cube. And those are the small moments as 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.880 a kid that I just remember feeling like, oh, I'm somebody. 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:52.640 Somebody told me that I was special today. And I 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.160 think that message can come from a lot of messengers, 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:59.120 and definitely race and class and culture and religion and 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:01.159 in giag graphie and all those things can make it 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:04.039 harder to here, but it usually comes through loud and 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:11.880 clear if the person really cares about you. There are 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:16.040 helpers everywhere, people who really see us and are kind 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:20.320 to us, and there are also people who show us 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:23.200 how to be helpers, who model it for us. My 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:30.000 paternal grandfather, incidentally, is a white man who is a 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:34.080 lay Presbyterian minister. He grew up on a really small 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:38.280 farm in the depression in rural Illinois, and in so 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:42.680 many ways reminds me of Mr Rogers. He has a 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:46.480 uniform like Mr. Rogers. He just wears like short sleeve, 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.240 button down shirts in the same way that Mr Rogers 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:54.320 always wears his card. Again, but my grandfather has children 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:59.920 and grandchildren that have lived just radically different lives than him, 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:04.480 you know, in terms of like race, class, culture, interests, 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:08.120 pol just like everything that you can think of. And 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:13.560 he just is such a deeply, deeply kind and caring person. 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:18.680 My uncle married a really awesome woman who didn't grow 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:20.840 up in the church or anything like that, and I 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.200 remember she said when she met my grandfather, she was like, Oh, 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:25.640 this is the first real Christian I've ever met, Like 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:28.440 this is the first person that actually they say they're 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:30.320 a Christian and it means that they like do all 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.840 this stuff that Jesus said to do right. And he's 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.439 always just made me feel completely unconditionally loved and accepted. 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:40.560 But I also see him treat other people that way 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:42.520 in a way that makes it clear that it's not 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.959 just about me being his grandchild, but what he believes 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.839 about the world. And going to visit my grandparents and 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:52.839 just meeting random people that were staying in their house 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.839 temporarily because that's what they needed in the moment also 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:58.959 made a big impression on me as a kid that 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.920 I could come and meet somebody and just be told like, oh, 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:04.600 you know, they needed to stay here for for this 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:07.480 period of time because of X y Z. And I 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:10.560 think that that idea of an open home quite literal 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:13.080 in in both the case of my grandfather and the 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:15.880 case of Mr Rogers, right Like, I think that's something 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:19.040 also that's not incidental that we're in Mr Rogers's house. 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:24.440 He's welcoming us into his house. Eve's grandfather showed her 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.120 one way to be open and generous in a world 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.960 that seems hell bent on the opposite. I don't I 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:34.880 don't identify as a Christian um, but I think that 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.560 even though I don't identify that way or as a 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:43.439 particularly religious person, I'm nevertheless deeply moved and influenced by 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:47.440 a lot of Christian teachings, and one of the Biblical 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:49.440 lines that I think about a lot is um the 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:53.760 idea of the least of these Jesus says, I'm paraphrasing, 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:55.760 but basically like that which you do onto the least 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.240 of these, you do unto me, and the idea that 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:02.280 in every situation, as a society, in a family, in 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:05.000 a community, your job is to find the people that 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:07.520 are the most vulnerable and to make sure that they're protected. 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:10.320 And when you do that, as a general rule of thumb, 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.240 everything else will be good. Everything else will follow. That's 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:19.400 really important to me. You know. After the election in sixteen, 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:25.720 my kids were thirteen and eleven, and they said, they 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:29.480 said to me, what happened? What happened, like, explained to 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:33.240 me what that was? What is happening? And the only 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:36.200 explanation that I could come up with was like, well, look, 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:38.160 there are some people who believe that it is it 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:41.560 is your responsibility to care for others and that that 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:43.400 is and that is a primary thing and that you 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.000 must do that. And then there are some people who 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.839 think that that is, that it's the responsibility to care 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.679 for your own and everyone else just needs to figure 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:55.520 out for themselves, and that is Ultimately, what appears to 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:57.800 have happened last night is that some people who believe 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:00.720 that second thing appeared to have gained more power. You know, 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.320 I was like your mother and I we know what 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.280 we believe. We believe that we must care for others 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:08.320 like that is what we fundamentally believe. We're never not 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:10.440 going to believe that that is just who we are, 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.400 and You're going to have to figure out who you 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:17.160 are in the world. You know. I've done a fair 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:21.200 amount of teaching in in prisons, and the prison that 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.040 I teach in is a maximum security prison where people 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:27.760 are there for very long term or life sentences. And 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:29.920 one of the rules that we have is that we 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.480 don't we don't ask people like what they did or 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:36.400 why they're there. I know just from history that like 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:40.640 if not of the people that I'm dealing with in 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:44.280 that space are there because of the drug war, are 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:47.760 there because of poverty, are there because of unresolved trauma 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:50.200 in their own lives. And the idea that like one 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:52.680 out of those one hundred might just actually be a 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:56.800 psychopath doesn't make it worth it for me to focus 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:01.640 on that to me, remote possibley when I could be 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.480 focusing on like the human conversation that we're going to have. 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.840 And so to me, that's that's the idea of of 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:12.600 grace is just like assuming even if you can't quite 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.320 work your way up to loving people, which is like 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:17.360 the Jesus standard. And it's okay for us to not 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:21.640 all be Jesus, at least understanding that people are human 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:27.560 beings and not not monsters. You've heard me ask a 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.079 lot of people, how I like you just the way 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:34.200 you are? Applies to those who hurt us, who hurt others, 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.800 who are hurting whole groups of people and tearing apart 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:41.920 families and communities and institutions that do good in the world. 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.360 Would Fred Rogers like them just the way they are? 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:52.160 Eaves says, that's the wrong question. We spent a lot 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:54.760 of time asking the question like what about the bad people, 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:57.959 like are we adequately punishing the bad people, which usually 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:00.480 is a distraction from making sure that the sin who's 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.960 actually been hurt is okay. And we've set up a 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.559 society where we tend to be really obsessed with punishing 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:12.120 people rather than actually caring for the people that have 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.120 been harmed. And that is a disregard that shows a 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.560 disregard for the idea of caring for the least of these. 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:20.760 And if you believe that most of those bad things 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:26.280 themselves come from un dealt with harm, than the best 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:30.920 thing that we can do is deal with the harm. 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:35.800 In Mark, Jesus says, the poor you will always have 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.640 with you, and you can help them whenever you want, 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:43.920 but you will not always have me. The idea is 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.559 that one day Jesus would leave his followers. Like all 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:51.920 things he was saying, his presence is impermanent. The only 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:56.240 permanent thing is that people will still need help, and 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.760 we must continue to help those who need it. Notice 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:01.720 he asn't say I'm gonna be gone, so I'm gonna 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:03.800 need you to keep on crushing all the bad guys 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:07.400 and making sure they learn their lessons. Like Eves said, 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.000 his focus is not unfixing the bad ones, but on 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:20.600 helping the needy ones. But that's hard. Sometimes Sometimes I 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:22.880 feel like I have to keep an eye on what 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.520 I'm afraid of or what can hurt me. I have 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:29.440 to make sure it's locked away or properly defended against. 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.880 The things I'm afraid of are so loud and bright 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:37.640 and distracting that it's hard to turn my attention away 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:39.920 from them, even for a moment. Hard to give up 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.320 on the idea that my job is to make sure 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:46.160 the bad people suffer. It's hard to do the quieter 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:51.440 and slower and maybe more vulnerable work of tending to 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:56.760 the people who have been wounded. I often feel too 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:01.880 scared and angry and hurt to do that. I feel 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:06.400 like I have too many people to protect. And maybe 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.400 that's why Fred Rogers was so focused on finding a 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:13.720 way to talk about our feelings, because maybe I can't 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.800 really help people until I spend a lot of time 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:33.080 sitting with my own hurt more in a minute, Teething 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:34.800 can be a real nightmare for your little ones. So 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.600 are you looking for the best relief to soothe teething pain? 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:41.160 Or Highlands Naturals Baby oral pain relief can help us 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:45.520 the pain. 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Can't join a meeting, no worries. Send 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:22.680 your auto assistant to capture the notes for you. Otter 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:25.800 dot ai works for in person and virtual meetings like Zoom, 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.920 Microsoft Teams, and Google meet Get started for free at 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:31.800 autter dot ai or download in the app stores. That's 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:37.040 otter dot ai. The more we learn about COVID nineteen, 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:42.360 the more questions we have. The biggest question now, what's next? 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:47.200 What will COVID bring in six months a year? If 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:50.760 you're feeling anxious about the future, you're not alone. Cal 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:55.280 Hope offers free COVID nineteen emotional support. Call eight three 0:16:55.360 --> 0:17:00.720 three four six seven three or live chat at cal 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:18.560 hope dot org today. One of the things that Fred 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:23.840 Todd is that in a child, every behavior is a 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:29.760 way the child communicates an underlying need. If we were 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.000 to apply that not just to children, but to grown ups, 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.480 we may find a behavior objectionable, or we may find 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:41.920 something that someone says objectionable. We may find another person's 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:48.000 opinion objectionable, but if we look deeper and see what 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.879 is the human need behind that, it doesn't mean we 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:54.600 have to agree with their opinions and actions and words, 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:59.520 but it does mean that we should and can have 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:03.800 m pasty and have a connection with the underlying human need. 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.160 This is John lay Lee. He is a senior lecturer 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.359 in Early childhood Education at Harvard. He spent much of 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:15.000 his professional career studying Fred's work. He was co director 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:17.679 of the Fred Rogers Center at St. Vincent's College, and 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:19.919 one of the courses he teaches at Harvard is about 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:24.040 simple Interactions, a way of working with kids that's based 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:27.280 in part on the work of Fred Rogers. Jen lay 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.440 also knows something about the dark side of human behavior. 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:33.399 He was born in Shanghai at the tail end of 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:37.280 the Chinese Cultural Revolution in the late sixties and early seventies. 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:40.640 The Chinese states sent millions of people who they decided 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:45.000 were bad neighbors in their eyes into forced labor and exile, 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:49.199 and murdered countless more. Jen Ley's parents were sent to 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:52.600 do manual work and rule China. He was often separated 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:56.199 from one or both of them. This was not a 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:59.280 culture of I like you just the way you are. 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:04.080 General moved to America at sixteen and discovered Mr Rogers 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:07.920 neighborhood in college where he was studying child development. Fred's 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.800 message of love and acceptance came as a revelation and 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:14.600 became gen Lay's model for how to communicate with both 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:19.159 children and adults. He told me that Fred became a 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.160 personal role model too, and before we get into it, 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:25.000 you should probably take a deep breath and relax, because 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:30.439 generally has a very thoughtful Fred rogers like demeanor. I 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:35.680 initially came to make available educational opportunities for all children, 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:42.080 but over time I think it becomes more and more 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:47.399 about how we can find people all around the world 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:51.000 who are doing that are the kind of people that 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:56.160 Fred would call heroes, um their ordinary heroes. I came 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.560 into the field very much want to be a helper, 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:04.600 and twenty years later I realized that perhaps the best 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:08.280 thing I could do is to find these helpers that 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:12.720 are already out there and do my best to support 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:20.399 them helps exactly helping the helpers. I think the most 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:26.160 important lesson that I took from Fred was this idea 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:32.720 that if you looked carefully around you, no matter where 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:37.720 you are, if you looked carefully, you will find that 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:43.400 there are people that are helping one another. The kindness 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:50.760 and trust and respect that are exemplified by Fred's work 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:57.919 is visible in real human communities. Not everyone talks just 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:01.800 like Mr Rogers or anything, but the way they listen 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:06.000 to children, the way they are able to pay attention 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:11.520 to not just what the child acts out on the surface, 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:17.919 but what do these behaviors tell us about the inner 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:23.520 needs of the child or the young person? You know. 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:27.720 I want to ask you a little bit about today's context, um, 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:32.840 because I when I look around, I see a lot 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:40.439 of fear and anger and frustration, and and a feeling 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:43.880 that things are rapidly getting worse in a in a 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:47.399 myriad of ways, and people feeling helpless and hopeless. I 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:50.480 wonder if you can imagine what kind of show he 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:54.440 would make today. Do you think he would continue along 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:56.720 the same path or would he find that he would 0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:03.440 have to do something different. That's such a good question, 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:10.040 and I can't begin to imagine that I know what 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:17.919 he would do. But I think the underlying topic that 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:22.200 Fred was so interested in perhaps centers around this idea 0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:30.760 of empathy. Fred's show is about confronting struggles and conflicts 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:37.000 rather than evading them. People of different ideas, different values 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:42.199 trying to work out their differences and still operate on 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:46.320 assumption of trust and respect for one another. And I 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:52.959 think Fred's work very strongly conveyed that a community is 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:56.800 a place where not everyone has to look the same, 0:22:57.359 --> 0:22:59.880 not everyone even have to have the same interests, which 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:03.119 who's to live the same way? Um like, community is 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:08.360 simply a place where very diverse people get to live together, 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:12.080 to listen to one another and work through the differences 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:26.520 that they have. I think in a fearful world, we 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:35.200 have a tendency to accentuate every aspect that is different 0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:41.600 between person one and person two. And as much as 0:23:41.720 --> 0:23:45.600 Fred wanted to convey the message that all of us 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:50.800 are different and unique and special, Fred's underlying message, though, 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:55.400 is we are much more the same than we're different, 0:23:56.640 --> 0:24:03.520 and that paradoxically, by point hinting out the uniqueness of 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:08.240 each individual, we actually come to understand our common humanity. 0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:17.919 And that, to me is perhaps the spiritual root of empathy. 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:23.840 To be able to see the full humanity of the 0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:29.440 person that we might fear. Mm hm, you know that 0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:37.960 is such a weighty and heavy concept in this time. Um, 0:24:38.080 --> 0:24:40.800 we live in a world in which there are systemic 0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:44.919 abuses of people, and people feel the need to defend 0:24:44.960 --> 0:24:51.080 themselves not just against individuals, but against systems, and and 0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:53.399 I think a lot of times in those cases, people 0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:57.120 feel like there's there's a there's a threat to their 0:24:57.160 --> 0:25:03.800 survival that comes with that empathy that in order to 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:07.719 protect themselves and their families and who they love, they 0:25:07.720 --> 0:25:12.440 can't allow themselves that empathy. You know, if you are 0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:18.560 a targeted group in a genocide, is their use for 0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:21.920 you in finding empathy for the person on the other 0:25:21.960 --> 0:25:26.919 side of the friends. Fred often talked about the lesson 0:25:27.400 --> 0:25:34.520 the most important lesson that he took from he's theology 0:25:34.600 --> 0:25:39.640 professor in Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, which he went to ask 0:25:39.680 --> 0:25:42.920 this professor one time what this particularly him means because 0:25:42.920 --> 0:25:47.800 the him said something about, you know, the one thing, 0:25:47.920 --> 0:25:51.639 the one small thing that made evil fall. And so 0:25:51.720 --> 0:25:54.119 he went to ask the professor, you know what is 0:25:54.200 --> 0:25:59.120 this one small thing? And the answer was the one 0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:07.600 thing that evil cannot stand is forgiveness. And I think 0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:14.640 as I read about the error in which my parents 0:26:14.680 --> 0:26:20.120 and grandparents lived through. I think of a story. There 0:26:20.200 --> 0:26:23.080 was an older gentleman that was very close to my family. 0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:28.080 He was from West Virginia and became a minister, and 0:26:28.320 --> 0:26:34.560 he and his wife and son were missionaries in China, 0:26:35.280 --> 0:26:38.359 and after the World War two broke out, they were 0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:41.720 taken by the Japanese and put inside a fairly bruto 0:26:42.400 --> 0:26:49.479 concentration camp. And one of the commanders of the camp 0:26:50.920 --> 0:26:55.879 were humane to the American prisoners, and the minister, his 0:26:56.080 --> 0:27:02.919