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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much

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Speaker 1: for tuning in. It's beginning to look a lot like Grampus.

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Speaker 2: Spoiler off campus.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to our shout out to our super producer,

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Speaker 1: mister Max Williams. You are Noel Brown. I am Ben

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Speaker 1: Bollen and no. Once upon a time, as you often say,

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Speaker 1: you were a wee German boy, I.

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Speaker 3: Was young, a young German boy, and I lived my

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Speaker 3: young German life and fear of crampus and raining down

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Speaker 3: holiday retribution on my small German frame.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, Gary guy, you can tell, you

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Speaker 1: can tell from our vibe, folks that this is a

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Speaker 1: holiday episode. It is that time of year again. For

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Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of years, people across the planet have

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Speaker 1: celebrated the end of seasons, the end of the winter

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Speaker 1: season in one way or another, and as we all know,

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Speaker 1: in the cultural West, the most popular modern celebration of

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Speaker 1: this is by far Christmas, right, the celebration of the

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Speaker 1: birth of Jesus Christ. In the US, I would say

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Speaker 1: it's an increasingly secular thing.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean, it's like a shopping holiday, that's

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Speaker 4: what it is. But hey, it gives the much needed

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Speaker 4: cash injection to the old economy, which I guess is

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Speaker 4: not the worst thing in the world. But boy, hottie,

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Speaker 4: has ever become just kind of sickeningly commercial?

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Speaker 2: And you know, it's certainly if you are.

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Speaker 4: One who practices a faith, you know there are like

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Speaker 4: nice Christmas Eve services and you know, more kind of

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Speaker 4: moments of let's say, reflection that can come around Christmas.

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Speaker 4: But we also know that it can be a little

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Speaker 4: bit of a difficult time for some folks. Dealing with

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Speaker 4: family can often be tough, especially if you have completely

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Speaker 4: different views, which is becoming more and more of the case.

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Speaker 4: And this are polarizing political climate that I think we

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Speaker 4: all live in. But one thing that really brings us

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Speaker 4: all together or tears us all apart, depending on how

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Speaker 4: you want to look at it, is Crampis.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, hates everybody.

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Speaker 1: Well, he's kind of I would argue that he's sort

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Speaker 1: of the Batman to the Superman of Santa. They're attempting

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Speaker 1: to accomplish the same things but different ways, and you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the whole I really appreciate that point because even if

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Speaker 1: you don't get along with your family. The holidays can

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Speaker 1: be tough for other reasons. There are people that you miss,

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Speaker 1: people who've passed on. You know, there's a moment of

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Speaker 1: self reflection that I would argue goes beyond specific spiritual values.

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Speaker 1: And there's fun. You know, you see a ton of

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Speaker 1: people going out to parties, decorating trees here in the

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Speaker 1: US and abroad, giving gifts just because they enjoy the community.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with that. We do know that Christmas

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Speaker 1: celebrations can differ widely depending on the country or the

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Speaker 1: community you visit. Like you guys, know you see it

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Speaker 1: in Mitchell Webb or Peep Show or any of those

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Speaker 1: other UK shows where they have a Christmas holiday and

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Speaker 1: they've got like the hats, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, yeah, a little paper crowns kind of and they

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Speaker 4: have those weird little paper they look like an oversized

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Speaker 4: like piece of candy, sort of like a little present

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Speaker 4: wrapped on both ends and you pull it and it

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Speaker 4: sort of pops Christmas press.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that what it's called.

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Speaker 4: Isn't it sort of like a little popper like it

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Speaker 4: sort of makes it it shoots confetti out and all

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Speaker 4: that stuff, just you know, festive fun.

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Speaker 1: Tom Fooler, and it gets a little metal, a little

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Speaker 1: heavy metal the further east to coast.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and and crampoos Is is definitely a very metal

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Speaker 4: type figure. We're gonna get into some various depictions of them,

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Speaker 4: but you're right in Norway, Uh, you've got you gotta

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Speaker 4: hide your brooms before you go to sleep so that

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Speaker 4: witches and evil spirits don't carry them away. Of course,

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Speaker 4: we have like the Mule Lads, which is a thing

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Speaker 4: that we've talked about previously on Regulus History. Like they're

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Speaker 4: basically this macabre, sort of seven Dwarf type situation. Like

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Speaker 4: I think there's like window Liquor. No, that's that's an

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Speaker 4: Aphex Twin song, but there definitely was like windows Sniffer,

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Speaker 4: doorway Sniffer.

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Speaker 1: They're named after weirdly sausage sack.

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Speaker 5: I think it is doorway sniffer. I remember making a

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Speaker 5: sound cue for all of them, and I remember combining

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Speaker 5: a doorway and someone sniffing stuff.

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Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, yeah, Window Liquor should well be one of

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Speaker 4: the yule as. That is, in fact a really awesome

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Speaker 4: Effects Twins song.

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Speaker 2: And then there was like cream Curdler Goat.

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Speaker 1: I mean, well, it was a goat enthusiast.

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Speaker 2: There was something to do with livestock, though.

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Speaker 1: There was a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was.

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Speaker 1: Named for specific actions, which is so weird. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of the equivalent of no offense to the hunters and

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Speaker 1: tanners in the audience. But it's like verb or occupation

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Speaker 1: as a name.

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Speaker 2: That's Iceland. I got them, I got them up.

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Speaker 5: Okay, so we got sheep coat Claude who harasses sheep.

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Speaker 2: We have harasses quote unquote.

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Speaker 5: Golie Doc who hides in the gullies to sneak in

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Speaker 5: and steal milk.

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Speaker 2: We have that's a gully. We have Stubby, who.

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Speaker 5: Is abnormally short and steals pants to eat the crust

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Speaker 5: left on them in situations. We have a spoon liquor.

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Speaker 5: He was a liquor pot scraper. I don't think that

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Speaker 5: needs to be explained to either.

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Speaker 1: We also don't have to do the whole paper.

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Speaker 2: We have bowl liquor. We have door slammer, a bunch.

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Speaker 5: Of the sky gobbler, sauce, swiper, window pee for.

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Speaker 2: That's the one you think there it is. I'm almost

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Speaker 2: not I promise, okay, I'm not almost done. Oh I

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Speaker 2: am all right. Doorway sniffer.

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Speaker 5: So the doorway slam door slammer and a doorway sniffer.

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Speaker 4: Okay, you could combine them like when they adapt movies.

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Speaker 1: You know, well, they love franchises to the point commercialization

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Speaker 1: and spin offs.

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Speaker 5: And candle steelers, because the whole thing was to educate

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Speaker 5: children to not be wasteful.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so we've got Norway and Iceland. What about Japan.

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Speaker 4: There's very oddly americanized traditions in Japan that we don't

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Speaker 4: even consider a holiday tradition over here.

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Speaker 2: It's very odd.

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you brought this up in Japan. I've

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Speaker 1: never been. I've spent time in Japan, but I've never

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Speaker 1: been during their Christmas season.

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Speaker 4: You gotta get KFC. It's a holiday bundle like jushed up.

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Speaker 4: It's a whole what's the word like a promotional thing. Right,

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Speaker 4: it comes with a Christmas cake. It's some of the

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Speaker 4: most effective marketing in recent history, to the point where

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Speaker 4: the because you know, I just got back a little

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Speaker 4: while ago around the Halloween season, and already people were

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Speaker 4: placing their orders for their KFC no other except no substitutions,

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Speaker 4: their KFC Christmas meal, which comes with a Christmas cake

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Speaker 4: and even it like, I didn't know this. In Caracas.

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Speaker 4: In Venezuela, you're supposed to use roller skates to travel

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Speaker 4: to early morning Mass on Christmas Day, which is kind

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Speaker 4: of cool. They shut down the city streets.

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Speaker 1: Weller.

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Speaker 2: Skating is hard, it's.

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Speaker 1: More difficult that it looks bekind to your skating enthusiast friends.

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Speaker 4: Sure, but we're not talking backwards. Really quick question that

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Speaker 4: the backtrack ever so slightly been. Is KFC popular year

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Speaker 4: round in Japan or just around the holidays?

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Speaker 1: It is popular in Japan. It has similar to turkey, right,

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Speaker 1: people eat turkey deli meat all the year round in

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Speaker 1: the United States, but fifty percent of the turkey's consumed

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Speaker 1: are consumed on Thanksgiving. So KFC has successfully commercialized this

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Speaker 1: and that's going to be again. Commercialization is going to

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Speaker 1: be a big, big part of this episode. As we're saying,

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Speaker 1: the further east you go closer to central Europe, you

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Speaker 1: see a more sinister, somewhat Christmas season.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's less about treats and more about being punished

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Speaker 4: and beaten into submission for your evil sins. No good kids.

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Speaker 4: Germany and Austria specifically is kind of where we're going

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Speaker 4: to focus today Saint Nicholas. You know, I believe he

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Speaker 4: was a bishop. You know, he was definitely like a

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Speaker 4: like a like a religious leader. You know, like a

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Speaker 4: lot of images of him have like wearing like a

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Speaker 4: pope hat kind of situation. So he is, of course

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Speaker 4: the purveyor of treats and gifts for a well behaved

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Speaker 4: year if you're a kid. But you know, we have

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Speaker 4: our Santa Claus, who I guess. You know, a lot

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Speaker 4: of these myths get mushed together. But the whole idea

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Speaker 4: of a coal in the stocking and no presence and

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Speaker 4: all of that stuff, I don't think anybody actually does that,

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Speaker 4: but it's part of the mythos. But Saint Nick doesn't

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Speaker 4: really have that. So he kind of needed a more

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Speaker 4: let's say, retribution wielding counterpart.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he outsourced his dirty work in Central European legends

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Speaker 1: and folklore. Old Nick hires out a guy called Crampis.

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Speaker 1: Crampis is a half goat, half demon monster that punishes,

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Speaker 1: as you said, misbehaving children when the Karmic bill comes

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Speaker 1: due at Christmas time. The descriptions very regent region but

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Speaker 1: pretty consistently. He looks like a devil, which is a

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Speaker 1: satyr the devil. Yeah, he looks like Satan basically.

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Speaker 4: He's got kind of curved rams horns kind of or

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Speaker 4: like goat type horns, and like you said, cloven hooves,

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Speaker 4: the sort of what do you call it, like a

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Speaker 4: like a satyr, like like the pan you know, sort

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Speaker 4: of angled legs, you know, the kind of a bend.

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Speaker 2: In the middle weirdly outward.

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Speaker 4: Uh, yeah, like like pan pans, labyrinth kind of that vibe.

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Speaker 4: He often carries seen carrying like a sack, uh, and

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Speaker 4: a pitchfork sometimes or some other weapon like a whip

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Speaker 4: or is very sen my, honestly, he's he's a lot.

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Speaker 1: Like that guy who beat the snot out of that

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Speaker 1: other dude in Congress. He carries around a birch branch.

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Speaker 1: In some regions he's always covered in course for uh.

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Speaker 1: He often has chains or sometimes bells or sometimes chains

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Speaker 1: with bells wrapped around his upper torso in his arms.

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Speaker 1: And so he comes to town the night before the

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Speaker 1: feast of Saint Nicholas. This is not a Christmas eve guy.

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Speaker 1: This is an early December guy. And if you were

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Speaker 1: hearing this today, ridiculous historians, congratulations, you have escaped Crampus.

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Speaker 1: If you are in I Love you, point out the

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Speaker 1: sack and sometimes it's like a backpack or a basket

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Speaker 1: on his back, and he has a series of punishments

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Speaker 1: like if you're bad, he might just spank you with

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Speaker 1: his birch branch. If you're super bad, if you're like

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Speaker 1: felonious level bad, you might end up in the sack.

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Speaker 1: What happens to those kids, anybody's guests. Rumor on the

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Speaker 1: street is he's either going to eat you or drown

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Speaker 1: you in a river or cart you off to hell.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, Like it's very much. If you've ever seen

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Speaker 4: the movie, Uh, Drag Me to Hell, it's that kind

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Speaker 4: of thing where he might actually literally come up from

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Speaker 4: the underworld and grab you by the ends pull you

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Speaker 4: down into the fiery abyss.

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Speaker 1: For sniffing all those doorways.

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Speaker 2: Oh exactly.

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Speaker 1: So we don't know exactly where old Crampis originates from,

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Speaker 1: and we'll get to that in a second, but we

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Speaker 1: do know a little bit of the etymology. The two

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Speaker 1: big guesses are a German word and then a specific

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Speaker 1: Bavarian term.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the German word crumping' which means claw, or the

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Speaker 2: Bavarian version, which would be crumping'. It's the spelled the same,

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Speaker 2: it just doesn't have the E at the end because

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Speaker 2: it's k r a m p n, which is a

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Speaker 2: word that loosely translates to dead or rotten, which I wasn'

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Speaker 2: familiar with.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, it's essentially Saint Nick and his pal the

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Speaker 4: rotten claw monster with his satchel and boy birch birch

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Speaker 4: branch clawboy.

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Speaker 2: That's good.

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Speaker 4: Remember, it reminds me of of a night before Christmas.

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Speaker 4: You know how the kids think he's named the Sandy Claus.

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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I think that's a really good point.

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Speaker 1: He's also like, because there is this ven diagram, isn't there,

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Speaker 1: especially in Western culture, between the holiday Christmas and the

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Speaker 1: idea of death right or the underworld, and and that's

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Speaker 1: that's where Crampus comes into play. You'll you'll see folks

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Speaker 1: arguing that he is the son of the Norse god

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Speaker 1: of the underworld and that he only became as hell.

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Speaker 4: By the way, it was kind of just right, and

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Speaker 4: he became associated with Christmas retroactively.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: The Catholic Church was not happy about this for quite

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Speaker 1: some time.

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Speaker 4: No, they actually thought that he was kind of encroaching

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Speaker 4: on their territory. They honest, you know, we know so

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Speaker 4: many holidays that we know of or think of as being,

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Speaker 4: you know, religion just in nature, like Easter for example,

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Speaker 4: have payan roots.

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Speaker 2: You know, and the Catholic Church does not care for that.

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Speaker 4: They find that to be totally blasphemous, you know, and

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Speaker 4: they want to do anything they can to get rid

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Speaker 4: of those connections. So they did attempt to ban the

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Speaker 4: creature entirely.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just like covering up a couple other crimes.

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Speaker 2: They failed.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this feels like scary stuff for a kid, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, why does.

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Speaker 2: Christmas Church of scary stuff for a kid? Right?

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Speaker 1: Why does Christmas in Central Europe have such an edge

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Speaker 1: to it? It goes back to what we're alluding to,

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Speaker 1: religious syncretism. We've talked about this extensively on stuff they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know. It's the phenomenon through which

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Speaker 1: different cultures, via accident or design, take previously distinct religious

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Speaker 1: beliefs and just sort of squadch them together, squatches for

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Speaker 1: rick and mortar fans, into something new, And sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: adopting a new practice. In other cases it's because they

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Speaker 1: couldn't like the Catholic Church totally erase previously existing beliefs.

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Speaker 4: Or it's like the invention of black metal, you know,

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Speaker 4: or like extreme types of music that you often find

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Speaker 4: in this part of the world because of pretty brutal

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Speaker 4: climates and you know, harsh conditions and also religious oppression,

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Speaker 4: you know, and just the nature of those places, in

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Speaker 4: the existence of all of these relics and these you know,

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Speaker 4: old churches and just that kind of the remnants of

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Speaker 4: this history, I think it really leads to a certain

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Speaker 4: type of almost rebellion, you know.

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Speaker 2: I think it's interesting.

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Speaker 5: Also, I just want to kind of jump in here

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Speaker 5: real quick just to note that I have a friend

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Speaker 5: who name's Laura Cortesy and we've changed her name to Squatch.

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Speaker 1: That's all great, well, congratulations Squatch fka Laura. Also, we

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Speaker 1: have to point out this part of Europe right in general.

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Speaker 1: Now it's regarded as solidly Christian, which it has been

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Speaker 1: for thousands of years, but this was not always the case.

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Speaker 1: Human spitation in Europe dates back far far before the

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Speaker 1: arrival of Christian theology. So this is why experts will

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Speaker 1: argue that crampus and things like crampis are vestiges of

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Speaker 1: pre existing pagan pantheons, ideologies and rituals, all meant to

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Speaker 1: commemorate the winter solstice. And you know you can go

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Speaker 1: into detail with this, like in nineteen seventy five anthropologist

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Speaker 1: John J. Honigbaden. How am I dealing with that nonik

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Speaker 1: very well? Yeah, okay, this guy probably has the best

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Speaker 1: summation of what happened and how Crampis got to Christianity.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, this is what he says.

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Speaker 4: The Saint Nicholas festival we are describing incorporates cultural elements

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Speaker 4: widely distributed in Europe, in some cases going back to

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Speaker 4: pre Christian times. Nicholas himself became popular in Germany around

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Speaker 4: the eleventh century. The feast dedicated to this patron of

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Speaker 4: children is only one winter occasion which children are the

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Speaker 4: objects of special attention, others being Marten Mass Class East

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Speaker 4: of the Holy Innocence. And I'm sorry, this is a

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Speaker 4: really intense sounding feast and New Year's Day. Masked devils

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Speaker 4: acting boisterously and making nuisances of themselves are known in

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Speaker 4: Germany since at least the sixteenth century. While animal masked

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Speaker 4: devils combining dreadful comic this is a German word for this.

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Speaker 4: I guess it's sort of like tragic comedy. But I

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Speaker 4: guess dreadful comedy is sort of like maybe a little

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Speaker 4: bit tongue in cheek, a little bit gram gignon kind

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Speaker 4: of stuff.

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Speaker 2: In The German word for this is sharickx lustik. Well,

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Speaker 2: I think lustik.

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Speaker 4: Refers to laughing or comedy, I believe, and shush, yeah,

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Speaker 4: shahrich is like yeah, fear or like, you know, being

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Speaker 4: afraid of something.

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Speaker 2: Let's see.

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Speaker 4: So dreadful comic antics appeared in medieval church plays. A

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Speaker 4: large literature, much of it by European folklorists, bears on

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Speaker 4: the these subjects. Austrians in the community we studied are quite

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Speaker 4: aware of Heathen quote unquote elements being blended with Christian

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Speaker 4: elements in the Saint Nicholas customs and in other traditional

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Speaker 4: winter ceremonies. They believe Carampus derives from a pagan supernatural

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Speaker 4: who is assimilated to the Christian devil.

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Speaker 1: And it's a.

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Speaker 4: Long whote, but I think it's it spells it out

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Speaker 4: beautifully because crampis in and of itself, is a branding play,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean. But like these types of

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Speaker 4: deities and these types of mischievous spirits. And like he's

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Speaker 4: to your point, Ben, and you found in the research

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Speaker 4: this masking and you know, all of these these things

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Speaker 4: are way back to you.

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Speaker 2: Know, Greek and Roman times.

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Speaker 4: You know, I mean the satyr again, Pan, all of

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Speaker 4: these characters are kind of light demons.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When Christians replace these pagan winter festivals with Christmas, the

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Speaker 1: way they did it is they said, oh, you were

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Speaker 1: already celebrating Christianity. You just didn't know what you were doing.

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Speaker 1: It's a propaganda war. It's heart and minds. And so

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Speaker 1: Crampis undergoes this rebranding, this transformation. He's associated with the devil.

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Speaker 1: He is placed in this subservient position to Saint Nicholas

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Speaker 1: based on an apocryphal story about the guy battling the devil.

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Speaker 1: And that's why Crampis wears chains to show that he

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Speaker 1: has been contained. And later these become bells because you know,

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Speaker 1: he jures it up a little, want to keep it festive.

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Speaker 1: And like we said, you've seen things similar folks, with

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Speaker 1: Greco Roman mythology being subsumed by Christianity. Shout out to

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Speaker 1: one of the best short horror stories ever, The Great

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Speaker 1: God Pan and then you see it in Satyrs, you

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Speaker 1: see it in Poseidon. That's the reason why the devil

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Speaker 1: holds a trident in a lot of things. And in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties, yeah, as you mentioned, the Catholic Church

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Speaker 1: and a couple of affiliates in policy try to ban Crampis.

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Speaker 1: They made it illegal for this guy to show up

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Speaker 1: at Christmas or during the advent season. And fascinatingly enough,

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Speaker 1: in World War Two, fascists did something similar. They thought

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Speaker 1: Crampis was a quote creation of the social democrats. It

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Speaker 1: was a culture war, is what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: Get rid of him.

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Speaker 4: But then by the sixties, you know, it's interesting, like

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Speaker 4: how how relatively recently that is Crampis kind of made

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Speaker 4: a big old comeback in Germany and Austria. He was

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Speaker 4: once again allowed to come back, and he did so

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Speaker 4: in full force as sort of a I don't know,

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Speaker 4: it's sort of like a gimmicky kind of kitsch piece,

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Speaker 4: you know, folklore hottering kind of folklore and tradition, and

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Speaker 4: of course, understandably the public really dug it. On the

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Speaker 4: one hand, it was, you know, a way of connecting

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Speaker 4: with their history.

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Speaker 2: But also it's like Halloween in December.

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Speaker 4: Man, it's so cool. They do these crampus crawls or

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Speaker 4: whatever they're called. We do them here in Atlanta, very

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Speaker 4: very popular events, and people dress up in the most

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Speaker 4: elaborate demonic you know, crampis garb and it's super fun

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Speaker 4: and creepy.

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Speaker 2: And who doesn't love Halloween? Christmas is fine. Mash them together.

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Speaker 2: You got yourself a fine holiday.

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Speaker 1: Right, And they're still never going to be as cool

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Speaker 1: as the most famous holiday, Arbor Day. Kidding, moving on,

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Speaker 1: so next, got the double hoards for Arbor Day.

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Speaker 2: I see trees are so metal, bro, they really are.

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Speaker 2: I love the amazing amazing so uh jumping quick.

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Speaker 5: Have you guys seen the SNL sketch with Pete Davidson

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Speaker 5: and Chris Red where they rest the trees one of

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Speaker 5: the best sl sketches.

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Speaker 2: It's really truly, truly good. I think trees are very metal.

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Speaker 4: They just they make me think of like something from

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Speaker 4: like a like a token book, Like they're just these

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Speaker 4: wizened creatures that just are somehow and like they know

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Speaker 4: more than you and they're not telling you.

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Speaker 1: Man, check out our earlier episode. Can plants communicate on

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Speaker 1: stuff they don't want? You to know, the answer is

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Speaker 1: mind blowing. And also, you know, this reminds me too

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Speaker 1: of Christmas markets, like when I've been to Christmas market,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, in Europe, in various countries there's always still,

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Speaker 1: especially now, there's always kind of a Crampian element. And

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Speaker 1: it's because, yeah, it's the thing. It's because people dig

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Speaker 1: this vibe. And you know, most of the folks, most

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Speaker 1: of the kids growing up, when you hear these stories

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Speaker 1: about old Saint Nick and Crampis, you're not gonna think

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Speaker 1: of the long fraud religious history leading to this. Instead,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna see him as like, you know, part of

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Speaker 1: the thing, part of the KFC meal that you would

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Speaker 1: have where you in Japan and December. And there's a guy,

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Speaker 1: James Deutsch, who is a Smithsonian folk Life curator, and

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Speaker 1: he portrays it as Crampis as a way for the authorities,

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Speaker 1: the powers that be, to promote the idea of good behavior,

401
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Speaker 1: of social morays, not violating taboos, not again peeping through windows,

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Speaker 1: stealing milk or what was it, sniffing doorways.

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Speaker 4: Can't quite understand the benefit of that, one sees. It

404
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Speaker 4: also seems like a pretty victimless crime, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, I don't think there's ever.

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Speaker 2: Been sniff that would be much more egregious.

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Speaker 1: Who in the thirteen hundreds walked into their cottage and

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Speaker 1: stopped at the threshold and said, hang on, this doorway's

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Speaker 1: been sniffed.

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Speaker 2: Frankly, it's probably a good bit of reconnaissance.

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Speaker 4: You know, you sniff at someone's doorway, you could tell

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Speaker 4: if they're like cooking meth in there or something, you know,

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Speaker 4: huge missing, yeah, a whiff of natural gas.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's a safety thing. Really.

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Speaker 1: I also love that you're pointing out to the notes

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Speaker 1: about safety and the notes about celebration, which you mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: the crampist crawls here in Atlanta. How do we go

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Speaker 1: about celebrating Crampis today?

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Speaker 4: Mainly devil worship type stuff, you know, sacrificing goats and uh,

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Speaker 4: what is it called? Walking witter shins around black mirror

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Speaker 4: at midnight, you know, writing sigils on the wall and

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Speaker 4: blood things like that, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, super chill hallmark stuff. Yeah, it's uh, it's

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Speaker 1: it's usually going to occur on December sixth, which is

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Speaker 1: known as cramp or Crampis.

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Speaker 2: Can you do it? Yeah? Knot?

427
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Speaker 1: Yeah, knocked crampis note, uh, the the night of Crampis

428
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Speaker 1: and festivities involve exactly what you've been describing the Cramps run,

429
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Speaker 1: which is the cramps loaf or Crampis.

430
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Speaker 2: Loaf louf is to run. That's right, l a U s. Yeah,

431
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Speaker 2: it's funny.

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Speaker 4: I believe here we I do call it the Crampus crawl,

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Speaker 4: which presumably would be a little slower than the Crampus Run.

434
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 1: Well, I would imagine in these things, which you can

435
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 1: find throughout central Europe and now to your point in

436
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: the United States, you'll see people dressed up. They're doing cosplay,

437
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: they're doing their own kind of very specific dragon con

438
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: or anime meet up, and they parade through the streets

439
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: and they try to scare civilians, try to scare bystanderds.

440
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: More and more often they get in trouble because a

441
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: lot of these folks doing this are New Orleans style drunk.

442
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, have you heard of Santa Con? I have, yes, Yeah,

443
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 4: it just happened here the other day. And apparently that

444
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 4: involves getting really really wasted as well.

445
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: Great, that will always end up good.

446
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 5: Actually, if I remember correctly. In New York they said

447
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 5: one of the best things about the COVID nineteen pandemic.

448
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 5: Is Santa Con couldn't happen?

449
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 3: Yeah?

450
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 4: No, apparently in New York it's it's an absolute menace

451
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,959
Speaker 4: whole friends of mine who've lived there say, it's like,

452
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 4: you don't want to go outside during Santa Con.

453
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: I'm putting it on the list for a future episode.

454
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 4: It's a good idea. You will get puked on by

455
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 4: a large man in a red suit. But yeah, no,

456
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 4: it's it's really cool. And a lot of these drunken

457
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 4: people too, potentially are like wearing really elaborate costumes, like

458
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 4: sometimes on stilts, you know, to try to kind of

459
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 4: emulate the crooked like leg thing of the of the

460
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 4: goat like demon figure.

461
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 2: I mean, here Atlanta, people take it really seriously.

462
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,199
Speaker 4: Also, of course we're at home with Dragon Con, so

463
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 4: there's a lot of cosplay, you know, hardcore folks around here.

464
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 4: But in Gross on December first, the Crampus Run was

465
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 4: attended by more than thirty thousand people. And starting in

466
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 4: the late twentieth century, Crampus Run started to become super

467
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 4: popular in Germany and Austria and then it kind of

468
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,959
Speaker 4: spread right, it spread especially you can see the inflow.

469
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 4: It's in pop culture. There's actually I was watching a

470
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 4: few YouTube videos it's about the history of Grampus earlier,

471
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 4: and there was one that listed off way more Crampus

472
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 4: movies than I was aware of.

473
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 2: There's one called The Mother Crampis and.

474
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 4: It really looks like a really schlocky, you know, just

475
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 4: just slasher kind of gore fest. But the movie Crampus,

476
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 4: to me, is like a modern day Gremlins. I think

477
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 4: it's really cool. And Ben you pointed out another sort

478
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 4: of Crampus esque movie out of I want.

479
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 2: To say, Norway watch it? Did you haven't seen him?

480
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 4: But putting in on my list for for Christmas viewing

481
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 4: along with Crampus, which I think really is a kind

482
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 4: of along with Home Alone and Gremlins. One is technically

483
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 4: a Christmas movie that's places during Christmas. It's really really good,

484
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 4: you know, back in the days of really good practical effects.

485
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: If I'm not mistaken.

486
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 4: Crampis the movie largely uses practical effects except when there's

487
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 4: wide shots of him, like bounding over buildings, but it's

488
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,479
Speaker 4: he's always in the shadows, which I think is the

489
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 4: best way to use CGI is when you don't like

490
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 4: show it too and that's always the best way to

491
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 4: kind of have a monster when you don't have to

492
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 4: look at it and get tired of it.

493
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: Hitchcock was right, you know, it's the monster off the screen.

494
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: Let people's imaginations do the special effect.

495
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 4: Even in Jaws, the fact that Shark wouldn't freaking work

496
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 4: ended up being a feature and not a bug because

497
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 4: it forced Spielberg to have to like be really creative

498
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 4: about how he shot it. And I think the Shark

499
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 4: is only on screen for like four minutes.

500
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: Similar to Hannibal Lecter in the Silence of the Labs,

501
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 1: both of which clearly are based on the pre Christian

502
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: traditions that led to Crampis.

503
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 2: Think about it, yeah.

504
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: Question, don't think about it too much, but so okay,

505
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: December sixth, the morning after Crampis Night is Saint Nicholas Day,

506
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: And if you're a kid in places that celebrate this,

507
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: this is the morning where you go outside of your door,

508
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: whether that's your front door or the door to your bedroom,

509
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: and you check your shoe or your boot that you

510
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: left out previously, and that's like you or that. That

511
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: is the moment where you get your grade for the year.

512
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: Did you get presents in your shoe or did you

513
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: get a rod?

514
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 2: What kind of rod are we talking here?

515
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: Like they kind of would beat people with, like in

516
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: a shoe. I guess they just I guess as soon

517
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: as you open the door would.

518
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 2: Isn't the person who's gonna use the rod to beat crampis?

519
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: I think it's like a horsehead and the bed thing

520
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: from Godfather.

521
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 4: It's threat a portent of things to come, even though

522
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 4: I think that might be a little redundant.

523
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 2: It's funny though.

524
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 4: We were talking off air about Bell Schnickel, which is

525
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:42,479
Speaker 4: another sort of punitive Christmas imp I guess, And I

526
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 4: just remember in the scene in the office where Dwight

527
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 4: portrays Best Schnickel and he's all about whipping you with

528
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 4: reeds as well, but he goes, have you been impish

529
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 4: or admirable? And then like Jim's like you mean like

530
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 4: naughty or an ie? Like, no, this is Best Snickel,

531
00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 4: nothing like said.

532
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: Right, right, and neither is Pierre Noel, neither is uh

533
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: Sa Pete and the various things.

534
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 2: Right.

535
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: Santa has a lot of companions, and they're more edgy

536
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: than the Coca Cola company led us to believe when

537
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: they created the modern vision.

538
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 4: Of Santa Say, marketing sanitizes history Ben santaitizes.

539
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so thank you, Max, thank you. I am going

540
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: to pretend those are two thumbs up. Thank you, sir,

541
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: thank you. So here's the riverside. Emojis don't work for me.

542
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: We don't have the right os for it.

543
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 2: Man, it worked for everybody else.

544
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: So we got to note that in general, just to

545
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: be clear, the majority of the population is not concerned.

546
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: You know, they don't think anybody's actually going to get

547
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: kidnapped or eaten or drowned in a river or sent

548
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: to the nether world. It's a fun tradition. And so

549
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: now we have to ask why why did crampis survive

550
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: ancient pre Christian days, transform into a controversial Christmas cameo,

551
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: and then suddenly become super popular. Were Nola's not blowing

552
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: smoke here? There's a big crampus event every year in Atlanta, Georgia,

553
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: and no one's like, well, here's what happened when Christianity

554
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: expanded into Central Europe. They're like, dude, check out my mask.

555
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 2: Bro oh, one hundred scent and a lot of these things.

556
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 4: You know, of course, we're kind of created for very

557
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 4: utilitarian reasons, Like I would argue that the and I

558
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 4: think Max mentioned in the Yule Lads were created during

559
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 4: a time of mega scarcity, where like these things like

560
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 4: candles and you know, like this yogurt and these staples

561
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 4: of existence were incredibly precious and hard to come by,

562
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 4: and if you wasted them even a little bit, you

563
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 4: could legitimately be putting your family's life at risk. So

564
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 4: these these were like designed to you know, the crap

565
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 4: out of kids at the point where they would never

566
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 4: leave the candle burning too long, you know, yes, their ski.

567
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: Right right, the taste of butter and so on. So

568
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: there is one, at least one milestone moment for Crampis

569
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: that expands this popularity. It's the eighteen nineties. The postcard

570
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: industry experiences a huge boom. Everybody is sending postcards the

571
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: way people were sending tweets back in what twenty ten

572
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: or something, and on the way like it started out

573
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: by sending a happy Holidays card, an old Saint nick card,

574
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: you know, wishing you the best, hope you find some

575
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: oranges in your socc or whatever was the big deal

576
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: at the time. And then someone figured out they could

577
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: make holiday cards that were crampis oriented. There's a German

578
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: word for this.

579
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 4: This is a great rate where German is so good

580
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 4: at encompassing complex concepts and overly complex snapping words, just

581
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 4: washing it together. Oh yeah, I give give it, give

582
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 4: it a good squash. This one would be Crampus carton.

583
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: Edgy Christmas card. Yeah, edgy Christmas cards. It's the stuff

584
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: your cool aunt would send you.

585
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 4: Some of these were a little racing. They started to

586
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 4: depict Crampus as sort of a bit of a horny boy,

587
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 4: you know, with that long snakelike tongue and sometimes doing

588
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 4: some naughty stuff with ladies.

589
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: Yes.

590
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 2: Uh.

591
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: And and that's putting aside the regular baseline of him

592
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 1: actively kidnapping and possibly eating children. Uh.

593
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 4: I think I saw one where he had a child skewered,

594
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 4: like the carcass of a child skewered on his pitchfork.

595
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 4: So these really did lean into These were almost more

596
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 4: kind of blue type car like you said, like your

597
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 4: cool aunt would have like sort of like nudy playing

598
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 4: cards or something like that.

599
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:08,919
Speaker 1: Right, they're violating or they're interrogating social taboos, right, and

600
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 1: they're also popularizing this idea. So now, if you are

601
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: someone who is traveling the continent and you want to

602
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: send a car to someone who doesn't live in Central Europe.

603
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 1: You're sending the coolest card you can find. All of

604
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: a sudden they know about Crampis. Crampis goes viral in

605
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 1: an analog way, and these cards are crazy to your point.

606
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: You can look them up and you can see a

607
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: lot of really weird stuff, and part of the appeal

608
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: may also be psychological. Antonio carniiro spoke with National Geographic

609
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: about this, and he said, this is a way for

610
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 1: people to get in touch with their animalistic side. Look

611
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: at these dual personalities, right, you put on a mask,

612
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: just like the Internet today. You put on a mask

613
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: and all the sudden, it's no longer you.

614
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it really is like Halloween at Christmas. Yeah,

615
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 4: well that sounds great to me. But now should we

616
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 4: get to the masks of it all?

617
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 2: Do it? Because they are very particular and then very interesting?

618
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah.

619
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: So the mask are a seasonal industry in Central Europe.

620
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: Think about it this way. If you're in the United

621
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: States right before, right before Halloween, excuse me, you'll see

622
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: a bunch of disused department stores transform into spirit Halloween

623
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: stores and they become this seasonal cottage industry, or you

624
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,760
Speaker 1: know how meet and greets with Santa pop up starting

625
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 1: in November. Great school kids still work on their own

626
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: homemade Crampis costumes, and I thought this was weirdly wholesome.

627
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: Some of those costumes, if they're good enough, they get

628
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: tucked away for the next year.

629
00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 2: Totally.

630
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 4: I remember distinctly when I went to actual job in

631
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 4: kindergarten making a lot of paper mache masks. It's a

632
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 4: very popular thing, and I distinctly remember, Uh, that's the

633
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,919
Speaker 4: first time I was exposed to the concept of paper mache.

634
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 4: And we would like you would build it around a

635
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 4: balloon and then you'd pop the balloon and then it

636
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 4: would give you this like shell, and then you could

637
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 4: cut the bottom out and then you could wear it

638
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 4: on your head. You'd make these almost then you cut

639
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,439
Speaker 4: the eyes in the mouth out. Now that I'm thinking

640
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 4: about it, that is a very German kind of tradition.

641
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 4: You don't people don't do paper mache as much around here.

642
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: It's so cool though. Papers is awesome, and that's awesome

643
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: that you were doing this as well. Do you uh,

644
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: did you hold on to the mask after you've made it.

645
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 4: No, I didn't, but I do distinctly remember my kindergarten

646
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 4: teacher's name was Frau Neuhause, which means miss new House,

647
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 4: and I was. It was right before we moved to

648
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 4: the States, and I think I was going back a

649
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 4: few times and coming back and she really wanted me

650
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 4: to bring a bought a finger bass because they did

651
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 4: not have butterfinger bars in Germany at the time.

652
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 2: And I believe I obliged that.

653
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 4: She actually reached out to me after my mom passed

654
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 4: out of nowhere on Instagram and it was the sweetest thing.

655
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 4: I hadn't thought about her in ages, and she reached

656
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 4: out saying that she had found out about that about

657
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 4: a year later.

658
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 1: I love that moment.

659
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good idea.

660
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 4: I think they probably have butter fingers over there now,

661
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:21,720
Speaker 4: but at the time.

662
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:23,760
Speaker 2: That's true.

663
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 4: It's sort of like now we get kinder, you know,

664
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 4: over here, but there was a time where we did

665
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 4: not get there. They're not the real kinder though they

666
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 4: so now that's not entirely true. The eggs, of course,

667
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 4: are different because choking hazards, right, But that's what I'm

668
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 4: be the ones with the white chocolate on the inside.

669
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 4: But you can get those as bar the bar versus.

670
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had the kinder bar, but it's they call

671
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: them kindred Joy now kinder Joy at Tot Toys. It's

672
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: more of a dipper than an egg. It is, it's

673
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: it is nothing the same, but it's gone global, just

674
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: like Crampis and Crampis like, why did this guy become

675
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: so pop popular? I'll be honest with you, A lot

676
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: of folks agree with this. It's capitalism. Oh yeah, commodification.

677
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: Capitalism loves a franchise, loves us spin off. There's a

678
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 1: reason there are so many Marvel movies, so many comic books,

679
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: so many Pokemon. So Crampis is this pop culture phenomenon

680
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: for people who want to celebrate the Yuletide season in

681
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: non traditional ways. We talked about these Crampis parties and

682
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,800
Speaker 1: Crampus crawls in Atlanta, but things like this occur in Washington,

683
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: d C. In New Orleans, in pretty much any American

684
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: city of a certain size.

685
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,720
Speaker 4: At this point, one hundred percent, and it does appear

686
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 4: to be continuing to pay dividends because it's not like,

687
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 4: does it reached the level of saturation of say, Marvel

688
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,919
Speaker 4: movies or Pokemon. You know, you have like one Crampis movie,

689
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 4: and I heard there's going to be a Crampus movie sequel.

690
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 4: But let's try to keep Crampus out of a full

691
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 4: cinemat universe. You know, it kind of sucks the joy

692
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 4: out of it a little bit, sort of cheapens it.

693
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 4: You know, I've got marble fatigue, my friends.

694
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not Crampus if it's every day, right, it's

695
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: not Christmas if it's every day. I mean, but there's

696
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: a lot of merch and that merch still gets sold

697
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: year round, collectible horns, figurines, chocolates across any kind of

698
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: Christmas market. I'm sure you can go We didn't check

699
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: this yet, but I'm sure you can go online to

700
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: your ebays or your amazons and find any number of

701
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: Crampist related merchandise. And the question is if we are

702
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: commodifying this or cramp modifying Yeah, okay, all.

703
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 2: Right, well, if we sail down, the man's the guy.

704
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 1: But if we're doing that, to your point, are we

705
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:52,280
Speaker 1: not turning this ancient relic of folklore into yet another kitchy,

706
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 1: soulless sort of money grab. You know, when does the

707
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: crampest fatigue set in.

708
00:39:58,040 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 2: That's what I'm hoping we can avoid.

709
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 4: I think Grabus is really cool and uh, I've only

710
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 4: seen the Crams movie a couple of times, and I

711
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 4: am very excited to officially add it to my holiday

712
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 4: viewing list.

713
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: I'm also so excited to hear what you guys think

714
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: about rare exports.

715
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 2: I know very little about it, which I'm excited about.

716
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to spoil it's so weird, dude. H.

717
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 1: We also, uh, we also want to give a moment

718
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: of honor to Santa's other companions. Turns out Old Saint

719
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: Nick globally is a lot less like a single act

720
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 1: and a lot more like the Wu Tang clan. He's

721
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: got companions all around Europe.

722
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, And we talked a little bit about Shavata pet

723
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 4: Shavata Peta in the Netherlands, who is sort of a

724
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 4: sidekick of I think I think bell Snickel maybe like

725
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 4: I think that's right. Results vary, but he is sort

726
00:40:55,120 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 4: of a court jesterly fellow, but often in full blackface, right.

727
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 4: And I think we talked about this not terribly long ago.

728
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 4: Maybe it was a year ago around Christmas, but I

729
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 4: think that some places in Europe have sort of started

730
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,280
Speaker 4: to distance themselves from.

731
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 2: The whole Schwarza peint thing. But it used to be

732
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 2: as common as can.

733
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 4: Be to see, you know, very airy and European types

734
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 4: dressed up in this motley, you know, with the full

735
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 4: blackface on.

736
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: Kind of like Bell Shickle, which you mentioned earlier. You know,

737
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: he has a face smeared with charcoal and we're talking

738
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: off air and I asked, you, guys, how much charcoal

739
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: can someone smear like that before it's officially blackface.

740
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 4: Well that's a good point. I believe Swartza pat is

741
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 4: meant to be covered in soot.

742
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 2: I believe, yeah, it was.

743
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,720
Speaker 1: It was very much more a coal based, chimney based

744
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: economy at the time. There's also Servant Rupert in German folklore,

745
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 1: Paranoel Father Christmas in French folklore. It goes on and on,

746
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,879
Speaker 1: and you guys, honestly, Crampus is the coolest. We hope

747
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: everybody is having a great holiday. We hope that we

748
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: hope that you enjoy this deeper lore of Christmas. Check out,

749
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: as you said, Noel, check out our Your Lads episode.

750
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: Check out the origins of Christmas on stuff they don't

751
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: want you to know, and we wanted to make good

752
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: on something we mentioned in a previous episode. Oh yeah,

753
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: we talked. We talked Noel and Max and Alex sirkeez

754
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: here too. We talked about maybe reading a couple of reviews.

755
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and hopefully this will entice the rest of

756
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 4: you to leave, leave some some nice ones. Apparently some

757
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 4: people think we're like the woke police or something out there.

758
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 4: Let's let's push all those down the queue, because we

759
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 4: make no apologies for being human beings with a perspective,

760
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,760
Speaker 4: and I don't think we're overtly political or anything.

761
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 2: But it's just crazy how triggered some people get just

762
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 2: by like people.

763
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 4: Having opinions and being human. I mean, that's just how

764
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 4: it is. But yeah, please Ben, I would love to

765
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 4: maybe read one apiece.

766
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, here, why don't you? This is one of

767
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: my This one we found that I thought was nice.

768
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: And we're keeping these both very short. But why you

769
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: do the first one?

770
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 4: Then this one comes from doctor say, they say, great show,

771
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 4: recommended four stars.

772
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 2: Where's the fifth star? Doctor say? What did we do

773
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 2: to hurt you?

774
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 4: I really enjoy the style interwoven with the topics are

775
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 4: asides quasi related banter. We specialize in and tangents that

776
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 4: add color to the conversation, where nothing if not colorful.

777
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 4: Thanks doctor Say, and we.

778
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: Have one from Squeak eight seven four to oh one

779
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,320
Speaker 1: informative and lighthearted five stars.

780
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 2: Thank you Squeak.

781
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: I have been listening for a long time. I enjoy

782
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:01,280
Speaker 1: history and enjoy information with a light hearted banter.

783
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, if you want to leave a pleasant review

784
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 4: on iTunes or podbey or whatever, please do. We might

785
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 4: share a few more of these moving forward. If you

786
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 4: want to have your name and comment right on the show,

787
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 4: that's a surefire way to do it.

788
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,760
Speaker 1: Big big thanks to our super producer, mister Max Williams.

789
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: Big big thanks to our returning guest Alex the Circumstance

790
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: Circa Alex, howd we do? Did we convert you to Crampus?

791
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 2: I think I got to check out that movie that

792
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 2: you mentioned.

793
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 3: I might have to watch that later tonight.

794
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Get the spirits excited to see it as well.

795
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 4: Huge thanks to Jonathan Strickland, the Quist sort of a

796
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 4: Crampis type fellow, a little more of a Bellsnickel. I

797
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 4: would say, oh, shots fired, Yeah, and I once saw

798
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 4: him get his wigs snatched off and he put it

799
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 4: on backwards too. There was a reference to the previous episode.

800
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 1: We're doing callbacks, guys. Big big thanks to Alex Williams,

801
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: who composed this track. Big thanks to Eves Jeffcoat. Christopher

802
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: hasiotis here in spirit. I am a research associate for

803
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: this episode. We can't wait to explore more ridiculous history

804
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: with you, folks. We've got gosh no, We've got a

805
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: lot of things on the docket that I think are

806
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. Every time I read like our secret

807
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: treasure troph of stuff we're working on, I get so excited.

808
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 4: I'm excited to start digging in on some of them myself.

809
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 4: It's going to be a fun new year. We'll see

810
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:35,879
Speaker 4: you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit

811
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 4: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

812
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 4: your favorite shows.