1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 3 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 2: name is Robert Lamb. 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick, and today we're going to 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 3: do another baby looked at Me style topic. My daughter 6 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 3: is ten months old now, and after I came back 7 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 3: on the show, after I came back from parental leave, 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 3: I think I warned you all that there would probably 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 3: be plenty of baby looked at Me style content in 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 3: the coming years. And this is one that has really 11 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 3: harnessed my brain. It starts with an observation that I'm 12 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 3: sure anybody out there who has or has ever had 13 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 3: young children will recognize. And it is what one might 14 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 3: call anomalous adhesion syndrome, the sudden realization that an unusual 15 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 3: surface in your house has become sticky and you don't 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 3: know how it happened. I don't know. This is one 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 3: of the anomalous phenomena that we need to resort to 18 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 3: the proof of aliens confirmed column for. But I don't know. 19 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 3: We'll see. And in my case, it starts with my 20 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 3: child eating like a frozen fruit smoothie pop. Rob, I 21 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 3: don't know if you ever made these in your house. 22 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 3: But it's a nice little treat, you know. You like 23 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 3: blend up some strawberries and bananas and stuff and freeze 24 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 3: it in the freezer with a little handle. 25 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, we have done this plenty of times. I 26 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 2: think we've stopped using them though, but they're still in 27 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,839 Speaker 2: the freezer. I don't know when we filled the mold last, 28 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 2: but they're still awaiting use. 29 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 3: Well, so you give one of these to a baby. 30 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 3: You know she loves it, but no surprise that her 31 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 3: face gets sticky. You would expect that her hands get sticky, 32 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 3: the floor around her gets sticky. But then later maybe 33 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 3: you're like pulling a book off the shelf and you 34 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 3: notice that the underside of the bookshelf is sticky. How 35 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 3: did that happen? We could insert the X files music 36 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 3: sting here, but I do have a hypothesis. At first 37 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 3: it was a little more perplexing, but I think maybe 38 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 3: it's that the adults in the house are acting as 39 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 3: an intermediary or as a vector of stickiness from one 40 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 3: surface to the other. So like during frantic moments of 41 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 3: dealing with the baby, an adult is maybe getting stickiness 42 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 3: from the baby on themselves, and then touching you know, 43 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 3: the bookshelf, for the refrigerator door handle or whatever it is. 44 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 2: Hmmm, well, that's pretty good. I mean, on one hand, 45 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 2: you could just say sticky baby touches everything, and then 46 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 2: therefore everything is sticky. I still think that's a solid hypothesis, 47 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 2: this transference of sticky. This also holds what holds up well. 48 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 2: I think another possibility is heightened stickiness thanks to baby 49 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 2: results in heightened awareness of stickiness, and therefore you're just 50 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 2: more inclined to notice stickiness now that there is an 51 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 2: enhanced stickiness culprit in the household. 52 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 3: You know, normally, I would say that kind of explanation 53 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 3: makes a lot of sense, but I think for me, 54 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 3: psychologically it's the exact opposite. I used to have much 55 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 3: more awareness of the ickiness of stickiness, but now having 56 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 3: a baby, I am I think I am somewhat desensitized 57 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 3: to the to the icky of the sticky. 58 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 2: Hmmm. Interesting. Yeah, I mean we still seem like, I 59 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 2: still feel like we have enhanced stickiness in the household 60 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 2: even at this point. And I think part of it 61 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 2: too is just like you get a third body in 62 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 2: the house, or you know, in larger family households, you know, 63 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 2: multiple more bodies, that's more folks coming in and out 64 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 2: of the kitchen, that's more folks handling food. Yeah, there's 65 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 2: just kind of this exponential swell of stickiness. And then 66 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 2: how do you handle it? Do you just become desensitized 67 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: to it? Or do you try and keep up the 68 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 2: battle against the sticky? 69 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 3: Keeping up the battle is really a slog because another 70 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 3: part of you know, a baby learning to appreciate solid 71 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 3: foods is a lot of throwing foods on the floor, 72 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 3: a lot of the floor. 73 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: How did people cope with carpets, wall to wall carpets 74 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 2: and children in the past. I don't know. 75 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 3: Oh, I don't want to think about it. But anyway, 76 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 3: so this got my brain cranking on the subject of stickiness, 77 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,039 Speaker 3: and I wanted to kick off a series today exploring 78 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 3: the concept of stickiness and it's many wonderful, terrible and 79 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:24,239 Speaker 3: mysterious forms. So one place I was kind of foiled 80 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 3: right at the beginning is I was like, Okay, is 81 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 3: there just an answer to the question, sort of a 82 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 3: chemistry or material science question, what makes a sticky thing sticky? 83 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 3: I think it turns out this is one of those 84 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 3: questions that seems like it should have a very simple answer, 85 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 3: but in fact is rather difficult and complex, because while 86 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 3: stickiness seems like one phenomenon to us, you know, we 87 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 3: have a single word for it, it's actually a lot 88 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 3: of different things. And I've been reading a book that 89 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 3: addresses this a bit. It's a book called Sticky, The 90 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 3: Secret Science of Surfaces, by Laurie Winkless from Bloomsbury twenty 91 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 3: twenty three. So this is a new popular science book. 92 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 3: It's not just about stickiness. It's also about slipperiness and 93 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 3: generally about surface interactions, and the science thereof is by 94 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 3: this author named Luri Winkless. And for everybody who says 95 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 3: that you know, book jacket blurbs don't matter, I will 96 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 3: say this is a case where I was swayed. I 97 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 3: was convinced to go ahead and buy this one because 98 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 3: it had a positive blurb from Mary Roach. 99 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, friend of the show Mary Roach. Always a 100 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 2: ringing endorsement. 101 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 3: But anyway, in the introduction to her book, Winkless reveals 102 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 3: something that kind of surprised me, which is that despite 103 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 3: the fact that stickiness and slipperiness are essential and probably 104 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 3: universally recognized properties of substances in the world around us. 105 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 3: You know they have crucial and perfectly well understood everyday meanings. 106 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 3: To quote from her introduction, the words sticky and slippery 107 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 3: are also not true materials properties in the way that 108 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 3: say hardness and thermal conductivity are. They have no agreed 109 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 3: upon scientific definitions and no specific metrics that can be 110 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 3: used to quantify or compare them. Now, of course, stickiness 111 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 3: and slipperiness do involve a number of well understood and 112 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 3: mathematically well defined physics concepts like friction, viscosity, elasticity, and 113 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 3: so forth. Apparently, they in themselves are kind of more 114 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 3: vague and complex concepts, and they describe a number of 115 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 3: different phenomena with different causes. So when you say that 116 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 3: glue is sticky, and velcrow is sticky, and sugar syrup 117 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 3: is sticky, you're using one word to describe a similar 118 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 3: property these substances have. But the explanations can go in 119 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 3: a variety of different directions. So this exploration of stickiness 120 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 3: over the next few episodes will not be a single 121 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 3: straight highway, but a bunch of diverging roads. Though, I 122 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 3: think because we started with the example of food based 123 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 3: substances getting on things and making them sticky. I think 124 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 3: it might be good to stick to food for a bit. 125 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 2: Let's stick to the food for a bit, yes, Because, yeah, 126 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 2: stickiness is not always a byproduct of misplaced or spilled 127 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 2: food treats. Sometimes it's a vital part of the culinary experience. 128 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 2: And as we'll get into this, might not be as 129 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 2: obvious to all listeners out there when we talk about, oh, 130 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 2: don't you love it when the food is sticky? Don't 131 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 2: you love it when the food is chewy? There's actually 132 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 2: some rather stark differences that can be observed across different 133 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 2: food cultures. 134 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 3: Now, I'm sure when a lot of people think sticky foods, 135 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 3: you immediately think sugar syrups and candy. But we're going 136 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 3: to go in a slightly different direction here. 137 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: That's right, because you have most chewy and sticky candies. 138 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, that's the sweet dimension. But the example 139 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 2: we're going to bring up here, it can be enjoyed sweet, 140 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: it can be enjoyed savory. I'm talking about the sticky 141 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: food par excellence. Sticky rice. So you may have a 142 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 2: counted sticky rice in different forms. I mean, there's like 143 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 2: bamboo sticky rice, there's Oh, there's mango sticky rice, which 144 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: I think is absolutely amazing. You know, it's going to 145 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 2: be different depending on you know, exactly what sort of 146 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: mango you you have on there, but you can and 147 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 2: sticky rice can be enjoyed with savory foods, it can 148 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 2: be enjoyed with sweet foods. It's just absolutely tremendous. 149 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 3: Now, when you say the phrase sticky rice, you could 150 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 3: just be talking about rice and using sticky as an 151 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 3: adjective to describe the rice. Because rice is, as we'll discuss, 152 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 3: different varieties of rice are a varying levels of stickiness. 153 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 3: But there is also a type of rice that is 154 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 3: specifically sticky rice. 155 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 2: That's right. Specifically, it's a Ariza sativa variant glutenosa, also 156 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 2: known as glutenous rice. But don't let the name deceia view. 157 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: It doesn't actually contain gluten. It is merely glutenous in 158 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 2: that it is glue like or. 159 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 3: Sticky, also sometimes called sweet rice. The last time I 160 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 3: bought it at one of our local Asian markets, it 161 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 3: was just in a bag that had sweet rice written 162 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 3: on it. 163 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there are numerous cultivars of this particular type 164 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 2: of rise and it's grown throughout Southeast and East Asia. 165 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 2: This and the among the cultivars, you have mochigami, which 166 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 2: is key to Japanese mochi, which is also one of 167 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 2: life's great pleasures. Now where it gets interesting because ultimately 168 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 2: the question arises where does the stickiness come in? What 169 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 2: makes it stickier? So typical rice contains two starches, amelos 170 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 2: and amelo pectin, but sticky rice lacks amelos and its 171 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 2: absence leads to this sticky quality that we have. This 172 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: is due to a mutation in its waxy gene. DNA 173 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 2: evidence suggests that it emerged a single time somewhere in 174 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: Southeast Asia, and the resulting stickiness was seemingly light, preserved, encouraged. 175 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 2: You know that we see this story time and time 176 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 2: again throughout the history of domesticated and cultivated foods, where 177 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 2: something changes in the particular plant and we realize, oh, 178 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 2: this is even better than before. 179 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, I can see that. In another way, I kind 180 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 3: of think about a glutinous rice as blasting off of 181 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 3: one end of the rice experience spectrum. So, just from 182 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 3: personal experience in the kitchen, I'm familiar with the properties 183 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 3: of different kinds of cooked rice, and there is a 184 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 3: general pattern that longer grain rice varieties tend to be 185 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 3: firmer and less sticky, so they stick to each other less. 186 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 3: So you think of the example of basmadi rice used 187 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 3: in a lot of Indian cuisine and other long grain 188 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 3: rice is they tend to have grains that separate from 189 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 3: one another more easily and remain firmer after cooking. So 190 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 3: these rices kind of flake when you toss them with 191 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 3: a fork after cooking. Rob you know that experience. 192 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And of course this becomes vital too if 193 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 2: you're going to be potentially eating with chopsticks. You know 194 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 2: what kind of rises are going to clump together in 195 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 2: which ones are going. 196 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 3: To fall apart. Yes, these would be more difficult to 197 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 3: eat with chopsticks, though you know, with enough practice you 198 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 3: need almost anything with chopsticks. Yeah, yeah, especially if you 199 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 3: got some kind of saucy, wet thing to kind of 200 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 3: stick it together. But yes, the grains that separate from 201 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 3: one another more easily like this, the long grain rices 202 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 3: are more difficult. Meanwhile, shorter grain rices tend to be 203 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 3: softer in texture and stickier. They stick to each other 204 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 3: and stick to other things more easily. So you can 205 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 3: think of short grain rices like you know ar boreo 206 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 3: rice which is commonly used in risotto, or short grain 207 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 3: sushi rice which is tender and sticks together nicely to 208 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 3: you know, make into sushi rolls or other multiple forms. 209 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 3: And this correlates to what you mentioned, Rob that changing 210 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 3: ratio of ammelos to amelopectin, longer grain rices tend to 211 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 3: have more ammelos and shorter grain rices tend to have less. 212 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 3: Glutenous rice goes even beyond the normal short grain rice. 213 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 3: It has especially low ammelose content and high a melopectin, 214 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 3: which causes the rice to, once it's cooked, clump together 215 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 3: for molding purposes in cooking, and retain a really sticky 216 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 3: adhesion between grains while eating. It's also worth noting that 217 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 3: sticky rice is used to create a number of secondary 218 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 3: food products like Shoushing wine, which is used in a 219 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 3: lot of Chinese cooking, is usually made by fermenting a 220 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 3: mash containing glutinous rice. In particular, Japanese sake is an 221 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 3: alcoholic beverage that I think is also often made with 222 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 3: fermented sticky rice. But I was getting curious about what 223 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 3: actually makes the difference. Why do these different ratios of 224 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 3: amelos and amlopectin change the stickiness and the texture of rice. 225 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 3: Like what's happening at the sort of at the molecular level. 226 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 3: So I was looking all over for a good explanation 227 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 3: that I could actually understand of what exactly is happening here, 228 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 3: and eventually I found a great article about this by 229 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 3: an author named Guy Crosby, who writes about food science 230 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 3: for America's Test Kitchen and teaches at the Department of 231 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 3: Nutrition at Harvard's chan School of Public Health. And so 232 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 3: here's the way Crosby explained it. You got to start 233 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 3: off by understanding what starch is. Starch is a carbohydrate 234 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 3: that is found in lots of foods, and it is 235 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 3: the natural way that plants store energy, store food energy 236 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 3: that they make via the process of photosynthesis. And so 237 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,839 Speaker 3: this is kind of an interesting connection to like, when 238 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 3: you're thinking about the food you eat, think all the 239 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 3: way back to like how that energy entered the planet 240 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 3: Earth in the form of sunlight and turned into the 241 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 3: food on your plate. So, of course plants make their 242 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 3: own food by way of photosynthesis, which means they are 243 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 3: forcing a chemical reaction between carbon dioxide in the air 244 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 3: and water, and that chemical reaction is powered by the 245 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 3: energy from sunlight, and it produces is glucose or sugar 246 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 3: carbohydrates as a product that's the food for the plant, 247 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 3: and then oxygen as a byproduct. Plants then convert the 248 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 3: sugar they produce through photosynthesis into starch, which is a polymer. 249 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 3: It's this huge macromolecule that is composed of smaller individual 250 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 3: molecules all linked together in a big chain. And starch 251 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 3: is a natural form of high density energy storage. It's 252 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 3: a way to squeeze a ton of chemical energy into 253 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 3: a very compact space. All of this sugar is packed 254 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 3: into one tight, gigantic molecular structure. This starch structure is 255 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 3: known as a granule. So sometimes you can actually look 256 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 3: up like microscopic imagery of starch granules and they have 257 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 3: a interesting little little like if you look at a 258 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 3: cross section of one. Sometimes they'll have these little rings, 259 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 3: kind of like the rings of a tree. That's interesting. 260 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 3: And when plants make these starch granules, they are storing 261 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 3: the glucose in starch in two distinct molecular forms. One 262 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 3: is amylose and one is Amylopectin. These two starches we 263 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 3: mentioned earlier ammelos is a linear molecule which is smaller 264 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 3: in size, and amylopectin is a larger molecule with a 265 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 3: kind of branching out structure, And these amelos and amylopectin 266 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 3: pectin molecules are organized into these tight structures called granules. 267 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 3: And then inside the granules there are layers with a 268 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 3: different makeup. So there are these like tightly crystallized, highly 269 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 3: structured organized layers, and then there are more amorphous, non 270 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 3: crystallized layers with more random arrangements of amylose molecules and 271 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 3: amylopectin any kind of non regular pattern. So why does 272 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 3: that matter, Well, you got to look at what happens 273 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 3: when starch granules get cooked in hot water. When the 274 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 3: starch granules are in water above a certain temperature, that 275 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 3: water starts to pin trait the starch granule, causing it 276 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 3: to swell. So you can imagine water molecules like soaking 277 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 3: into something I don't know, like a couch cushion or 278 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 3: something and making it like swell up, and that makes 279 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 3: it swell up kind of like a balloon in a way. 280 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 3: And as these starch granules in hot water get hotter 281 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 3: and hotter, they eventually reach a breaking point their maximum 282 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 3: volume and viscosity, as Crosby says, and this is called 283 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 3: their gelatinization temperature. And eventually what happens is they burst. 284 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 3: They just like leak pieces of starch molecules all out 285 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 3: into the water around them. Exactly what temperature this is 286 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 3: depends on the type of starch e g. What plant 287 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 3: it comes from. And a key factor is the ratio 288 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 3: of amylose to amelopectin in each starch granule. So the 289 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 3: more amylose there is in the starch, the more the 290 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 3: swelling of the granule in the presence of hot water 291 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 3: is delayed. So you can kind of think of amylose 292 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 3: as an armor against gelatinization. The more amlos, the higher 293 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 3: the gelatinization temperature, and the more the granule fights off 294 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 3: the gelatinization process. And then Crosby uses the example of 295 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 3: rice to show this process. He writes, quote, long grain 296 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 3: rice contains about twenty two to twenty eight percent ammelos 297 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 3: by weight, Medium grains contain about sixteen to eighteen percent 298 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 3: by weight, while short grain contains less than fifteen percent 299 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 3: to almost no ammelos. Varieties of long grain rice have 300 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 3: a gelatinization temperature above one hundred and fifty eight degrees 301 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 3: fahrenheit or seventy degrees celsius, while waxy short grain rice 302 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 3: gelatinizes at about one hundred and forty four degrees fahrenheit 303 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 3: or sixty two degrees celsius. So the temperature in the 304 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 3: short grain rice is the temperature for gelatinization is lower, 305 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 3: meaning it happens more easily. So the granules of starch 306 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 3: in short grain rice with lower ammelose content reach their 307 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 3: gelatinization point and burst at a lower temperature. And when 308 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 3: the starch granules burst, they flood the surrounding one with 309 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 3: disorganized small chunks of amylos and amylopectant of just little 310 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 3: bits of starch, Crosby writes quote, creating an infinite network 311 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 3: of entwined molecules that trap water and thicken to a 312 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 3: gel on cooling. So this mesh of loose, uncrystallized starch 313 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 3: molecules thickens the water and causes the rice grains to 314 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 3: stick together. And you can actually observe a similar principle 315 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 3: when you use starch to thicken other foods thicken like 316 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,719 Speaker 3: a soup or a sauce. If you've ever used a 317 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 3: roue based on wheat flour or a corn starch slurry. 318 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 3: It's the same principle. Corn starch flour, potato starch and 319 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 3: so forth all undergo the same gelatinization process, though at 320 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 3: different temperatures and rates. So the starch granules will swell 321 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 3: up and eventually burst in hot water, and this has 322 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 3: the effect of increasing the viscosity, meaning the thickness and 323 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 3: the stickiness of the water based or sauce. So that 324 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 3: is how the lower ratio of ammelos to amelopectin makes 325 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 3: the cooked rice sticky. 326 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 2: Ah, fascinating, fascinating. So all that's going on at the 327 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 2: at the micro level and at the macro level, you're 328 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 2: just enjoying some some sticky rice. Maybe a little sweet, 329 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 2: maybe you're a little savory. It kind of depends on 330 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 2: the particular dish. I don't think we can properly prepare 331 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 2: you for the stickiness just in this audio podcast is 332 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 2: something you need to fully to fully appreciate. You need 333 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 2: to try it for yourself. But it's it's generally like 334 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 2: when I've had it, oftentimes, not only could you eat 335 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 2: it with a with a pair of chopsticks, you could 336 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 2: eat it with like one of those little like wooden 337 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 2: planks that comes They used to come on the top 338 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 2: of ice creams. You could eat it with a popsicle stick, 339 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 2: you know. 340 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Sticky rice is often used for a like 341 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 3: molding purposes, so you can wrap it round foods, or 342 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 3: you can just use it as sort of like forming 343 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 3: little little bits of it or paddles of it in 344 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 3: your hand and scoop up foods with it. But there's 345 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 3: another thing about the texture of sticky rice, which is 346 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 3: that I think it's because of this gelatinization that it 347 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 3: has a similar thing going on that like risotto has, 348 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 3: which is a creaminess. 349 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can definitely take on this creamy, gooey 350 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 2: kind of texture, has this incredible mouth feel. It can 351 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 2: make for an overpoweringly good dessert, but again also works 352 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 2: very well in savory and plays a very important role 353 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 2: in various cuisines in various traditions, especially I've read in 354 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 2: the culinary traditions of Laos in Laotian cooking. As pointed 355 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 2: out by Mike Ives in a Taste of Sticky Rice, 356 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 2: Laos's national dish, it can be steamed twice during the 357 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 2: course of the day, beginning first thing in the morning. 358 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 2: So like traditionally sticky rice is something you make right away, 359 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 2: like this is how you start off your day. A 360 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 2: third steaming ives rights is said to just make it 361 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 2: too chewy to eat at that point, but the author 362 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 2: points out that quote a hunk of sticky rice is 363 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 2: a delicious bread like dipping implement. So I looked around 364 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 2: at some other sources on this, and yet traditionally in 365 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 2: Laotian cuisine, one rolls it up with one's fingers and 366 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 2: then dips it into sauces, which is, you know, it 367 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 2: is even a little bit different than other uses of 368 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 2: sticky rice. You might be more familiar with. 369 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 3: One of the many great world food traditions of make 370 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 3: your own utensils and then eat the utensil. 371 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've been to I think I think I've 372 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 2: only been to one Laotian restaurant a couple of times, 373 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 2: and I don't remember enjoying the sticky rice like this, 374 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 2: And now I want to. I really want to seek 375 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 2: it out and have this experience. Anyway, the importance of 376 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 2: sticky rice and laos goes well beyond just you know, 377 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 2: how you start your day. It factors into Laotian Buddhist 378 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 2: rights and traditions will come back a little to a 379 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 2: little bit to this in just a few minutes here. 380 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 2: But it also was apparently long sought after by monks 381 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 2: because quote as ice rites quote, it takes longer to 382 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 2: digest than white rice does. It states hunger for longer periods. 383 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 2: So I thought that that was an interesting tidbit. Is 384 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 2: another reason to have it first thing in the morning. Now, 385 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 2: whether that actually how much of that is the actual 386 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 2: science of the digestion of sticky rice versus other varieties 387 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 2: of rice, I don't know, but and I can't help 388 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 2: but wonder too if there's some version of like food 389 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 2: sticking to your ribs, if there's some sort of like 390 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 2: idea of that in Laotian traditions as well. I'm not 391 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 2: sure linguistic stickiness and so forth. Anyway, getting into the 392 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 2: just sort of the history of rice and the possible 393 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 2: like history of like when did sticky rice emerge? There 394 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 2: are various dates you'll come across for some of this. 395 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 2: There's so a lot of work has gone into like, well, 396 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 2: you know, when do we see this particular rice variety 397 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 2: pop up? And what does genetic information tell us the 398 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 2: domesticated species or Za sativa or Asian rice evolved starting 399 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 2: approximately nine thousand years ago. I've read this according to 400 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 2: Filipino American biologist Michael Pruganin in twenty ten. I've also 401 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 2: seen it written that Asian Neolithic farmers are thought to 402 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 2: have cultivated rice more than eleven thousand years ago. There 403 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 2: may be some wiggle room here again when you get 404 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 2: down to exact dates and ideas about when particular plant 405 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,719 Speaker 2: varieties emerged or domesticated, et cetera. Now, in the study 406 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 2: of rice genetics and in particular sticky rice genetics, Pruganin 407 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 2: has several different articles credited to him, and working with 408 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 2: Kenneth Olsen for North Carolina State University back in two 409 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 2: thousand and two, he set out to explore the origin 410 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 2: of sticky rice because ultimately no one knew exactly where 411 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 2: it came from. You know, we could look to its 412 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 2: importance in these various culinary traditions, but you know, we 413 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 2: didn't have like hard genetic data. Apparently, they pointed out 414 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 2: that on one hand, you had a Laotian Buddhist claim 415 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 2: that it emerged there eleven thousand years ago. Meanwhile, Chinese 416 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,239 Speaker 2: folklore suggested that it existed two thousand years ago and 417 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 2: so forth. Now I was intrigued by this, you know, 418 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 2: mention of the folklore and mythology and so forth. Here 419 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 2: I was able to find more on Laotian rice myths, 420 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 2: particularly in the book that he cites Rice Legends in 421 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 2: Mainland Southeast Asia by Baron Jay Tierweil. And basically you 422 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 2: can find longer versions of this online. But the basically 423 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 2: you have this Laotian Buddhist origin story for sticky rice, 424 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 2: and it concerns the rice goddess nang Kosap, who is 425 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 2: essentially not only a goddess of rice, but is Rice incarnate, 426 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 2: who like her body is rice, her identity is rice. 427 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 2: And you know, we see this reflected in the same 428 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,719 Speaker 2: idea in other traditions, other mythologies, where you have some 429 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 2: sort of vital food crop that is personified in a 430 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 2: given deity. 431 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 3: Oh well, yeah, I mean I think if the goddess 432 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 3: series C E. R e s whose name you see 433 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 3: the connection to cereal, the goddess of grain. 434 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you see similarities too to the importance of 435 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 2: maize in Mesoamerican traditions. Anyway, the interesting thing about Nan 436 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 2: coostop here. The thing I found really interesting is that 437 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 2: she has this relationship with humanity, and when the actions 438 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 2: of humans upset her or offend her, she'll recede from 439 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 2: our world. And of course, when this happens, it results 440 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 2: in famine. So there are at least two vital periods 441 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 2: of divine famine in Laotian Buddhist traditions, the second being 442 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 2: when an evil king hoards all the rice and then 443 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 2: the rice stops growing elsewhere. And according to the story, 444 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 2: after three hundred and twenty years of this particular famine, 445 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 2: a wise hermit finally offers to fixed matters, and he 446 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 2: does so by sacrificing the goddess pulls her into pieces, 447 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,199 Speaker 2: and each of these pieces would become one of the 448 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 2: four main varieties of rice that are of special value 449 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,239 Speaker 2: in Laotian cuisine, black rice, white rice, anim rice, and 450 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 2: sticky rice. And it said that she does not resist this, 451 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 2: she just holds her breath and dies as she's divided 452 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 2: into these pieces. But on top of this, there's this 453 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 2: added level of prophecy. When Maitreya, the Bodhisattva of the future, 454 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 2: is born on this world, quote all rice varieties will 455 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 2: reunify to become the original Rice. 456 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 3: Whoa Well, on one hand, I was going to say 457 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 3: that is an apocalyptic prophecy of the future that I 458 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,959 Speaker 3: can get behind. But then the more I think about it, 459 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 3: I'm like, wait, but I like all the different varieties 460 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 3: of Rice. 461 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 2: But you haven't tried the original Rice. 462 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,199 Speaker 3: Right, Well, that's true. Maybe maybe it would be as 463 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 3: good as all of them put together. 464 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 2: There there are you know, I don't didn't have time 465 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 2: to get into it so much for this episode, but 466 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 2: this particular source, this book Rice Legends in mainland Southeast Asia. 467 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 2: It you know, it also gets into these various other 468 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 2: ideas and myths concerning Rice about how Rice used to 469 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 2: be bigger. I think in some cases, like they're talking 470 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 2: about back when rice was the size of like coconuts 471 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 2: or something, you know, so. 472 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 3: You know their grain. 473 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,439 Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, I guess so. And then there are various 474 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 2: stories about, well, it's not as big as it used 475 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 2: to be because it was cursed by a widow. And 476 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 2: in some cases, like Rice in general is lost and 477 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 2: then found again. So it looks like there's a there's 478 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 2: a lot of fascinating twist and turns in the sort 479 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 2: of mythic history of rice, and you wonder about like 480 00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 2: the various disasters that that it speaks to you times 481 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 2: when rice crops were lost, or people moved from one 482 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 2: region to another and had to sort of refined or 483 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 2: adapt their method of growing rice and so forth. 484 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 3: That's an interesting ideology. 485 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 2: So anyway back to the actual origins of rice as 486 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 2: far as DNA evidence reveals. So back in two thousand 487 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 2: and one, Programon's team found that sticky rice's genetic mutation 488 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 2: maps to a single mutation on the genetic tree, suggesting 489 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,199 Speaker 2: that it occurred only once. They looked at the geographic 490 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 2: data for the rice DNA sequences and found that Southeast 491 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 2: Asia was in fact the likely location of its emergence. 492 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 2: So the picture we see of rice cultivation suddenly here 493 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 2: is rice cultivation suddenly generates something new and exciting, and 494 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 2: it's something where people latch onto it. There they're like, Okay, 495 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 2: well this is different. I think we can do different 496 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 2: things with this. And in this particular case, we're talking 497 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 2: about chewiness. We're also talking about you know, stickiness, but 498 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 2: I guess once it's in your mouth, it's not about 499 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 2: being sticky. It's about being chewy. And also in the 500 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 2: Laotian example about like rolling up the rice and dipping it, 501 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 2: it also shows that like the stickier the rice and 502 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 2: or chewier the rice, it opens up new ways of 503 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 2: using it physically in your food, Like it's no longer 504 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 2: has to be in the bowl. Well, now we can 505 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 2: dip it in the bowl. Like you say, it becomes 506 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 2: the utensil. 507 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, you can almost treat it more like like a 508 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 3: dough or something, except it's a dough that like is 509 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 3: already cooked and ready to eat. It's as moldible as 510 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 3: a dough, but it's already ready to go. Yeah. 511 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 2: And Japanese moch is just another example of this as well, 512 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 2: Like that chewiness, the things you can do with it. 513 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,239 Speaker 2: So why do we like chewy foods? Why would withou 514 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 2: this chewy aspect of this rice, The sticky aspect of 515 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 2: this rice, you know, cause it to be picked up 516 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 2: and embraced and then cultivated. Well, I found an interesting 517 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 2: article about this that touches on some of the you 518 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 2: know the differences between particularly between Eastern and Western culinary traditions. 519 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 2: And this was a bone Appetite article titled everyone Loves 520 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 2: Crispy and crunchy, But what about chewy? This is from 521 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen by author Elise in Nominee. My apologies if 522 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 2: I've got the pronunciation on that last name wrong, but 523 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 2: it's a wonderful article, and she points out that in 524 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 2: the modern West, chewy may sometimes be associated with something 525 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 2: that's underdone or overdone, you know, the results of poor cooking. 526 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 2: You know, why is this steak so chewy? Or why 527 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 2: is this other you know, I can't think of any 528 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 2: other specific examples off the top of my head, but 529 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 2: this is chewy? Please take it back? 530 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean traditionally, like the way meats are priced 531 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 3: in American supermarkets is there's a direct correlation with tender, 532 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 3: Like the dollar amount per pound of meat directly correlates 533 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 3: to how naturally tender is the meat. And so your quote, 534 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 3: cheap cuts of meat are the ones that are going 535 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 3: to be really tough unless you subject them to long, 536 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 3: slow cooking processes. 537 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. But according to the author, here in Eastern Cuisines, 538 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 2: there's this richer history of chewy foods, and one of 539 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 2: her key arguments for the enjoyment of chewy foods is 540 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 2: that it kind of prolongs the tasting experience, which is 541 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 2: interesting because on a basic level, you're working over the 542 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 2: texture and flavor in your mouth much longer. She argues 543 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 2: that across East and Southeast Asian cuisines, chewiness quote isn't 544 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 2: just a common texture, but a powerful tool deployed to 545 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 2: make food taste better. So this idea of stickiness or 546 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 2: chewiness is kind of a flavor enhancer of sorts. 547 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 3: That's interesting. 548 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 2: Something this reminds me of the discussion is also even 549 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 2: in case you encounter these I think they're called talk 550 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 2: rice cakes. They are these like chewy little rice cakes 551 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 2: that you get in various Korean stews. Have you had 552 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 2: these before, Joe. 553 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 3: Yes, I think so. They're made with well, I don't 554 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 3: know exactly how they're made. I assume they're made with 555 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 3: either rice flour or something or like mashed up grains 556 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 3: of rice, but they are. They form like a solid 557 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 3: white puck sort of, and yeah, they've got a really 558 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 3: nice bouncy, chewy, springy texture, kind of like rice noodles, 559 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 3: but very thick. 560 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I can see where like having those nice 561 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 2: chewy bits in this flavorful stew, you know, it kind 562 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 2: of forces you to to sort of experience the flavors 563 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 2: in that stew in a different way. So yeah, this 564 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 2: really made me rethink a lot of the ways that 565 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 2: I'm encountering chewy bits and various foods. Now, the usefulness 566 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 2: of stickiness and sticky rice also goes well beyond culinary uses. 567 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 2: It also factors into sticky rice mortar, an ancient, apparently 568 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 2: Chinese development that dates back a good fifteen hundred years. 569 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 2: We'll get into some of the discussions about how far 570 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 2: back this might go, but basically it's a mixture of 571 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 2: slacked lime with sticky rice soup. I was reading about 572 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 2: this in in a paper from twenty nineteen by Lee 573 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 2: and Zang published in the Journal of Archaeological Method and Theory. 574 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 2: This was this is an interesting when the authors looked 575 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 2: at three hundred and seventy eight ancient mortar samples from 576 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 2: throughout China across one hundred and fifty nine ancient buildings 577 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 2: in archaeological relics. Two hundred and nineteen mortar samples from 578 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 2: ninety six buildings contained organic components. One hundred and twelve 579 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,479 Speaker 2: samples contained starch, eighty seven oil, fifty nine protein, fourteen sugar, 580 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 2: and five blood. Who now on the blood point. I'm 581 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 2: not going to go too deep into this here, but 582 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 2: I think there might be a temptation for us to 583 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 2: instantly think about, you know, some of like sacrificial aspect, 584 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 2: and you do see sacrificial rites associated with various building 585 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 2: traditions throughout the world, you know, foundation sacrifices and so forth. 586 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 2: But also you see a lot of these sorts of 587 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 2: organic ingredients used in various things like dyes and paints, 588 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 2: et cetera. So you know, one thinks too like the 589 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 2: use of organic bits from egg and paints that were 590 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 2: used to create various works of art. But the authors 591 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 2: here point out that the of course, the line portion 592 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 2: of mortar goes way back to somewhere between seven and 593 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 2: twelve thousand BCE and Palestine and Turkey. Various inorganic additives 594 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 2: were used throughout the history of mortar, such as volcanic ash, 595 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 2: which was often added by the Greeks, but organic additives 596 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 2: were used as well, including just about anything you could 597 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 2: think of animal here, plant seeds, plant fibers, egg wides, 598 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 2: egg yolk, animal glue, fish oil, whale oil, all sorts 599 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 2: of stuff. Now, Chinese use of lime mortar goes back 600 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 2: a good five thousand years, they say, but there's evidence 601 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 2: of different additives being used at different points in different places. 602 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,919 Speaker 2: Sticky rice in particular pops up in tombs and pagodas 603 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 2: dated to the Southern and Northern dynasties. This would have 604 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 2: been between the years four twenty and five to eighty nine. 605 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 2: The starch content of their samples are directly linked to 606 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 2: the extremely common practice of using sticky rice mortar. Some 607 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 2: of the samples included city walls. They also point out 608 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 2: that while the Southern and Northern dynasties are generally considered 609 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 2: the earliest possible time for sticky rice mortar to have 610 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 2: been used in China, they claim to have found one 611 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 2: starch sample from the Eastern Han dynasty that would have 612 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 2: been between the years twenty five and two twenty, which, 613 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 2: if accurate, would push that estimate back. 614 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 3: All right, So why would you be adding food substances 615 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 3: like sticky rice or any of these other things to 616 00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 3: the mortar you were using to build buildings. 617 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 2: I mean, basically it comes down to, like trying to 618 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 2: make a better mortar. Things you can add to increase 619 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 2: the bond strength in the mortar, And that seems to 620 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,799 Speaker 2: be the case here. A twenty ten paper published in 621 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 2: the American Chemical Society monthly journal Accounts of Chemical Research 622 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 2: by Yang at All looked into the legendary strength of 623 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 2: sticky rice mortar, because all these stories about how strong 624 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 2: it was and how strong it still is, how well 625 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,800 Speaker 2: it holds up, they're like anecdotes about like modern bulldozers 626 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 2: not being able to knock it down. And they found that, 627 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 2: you know, first of all, it's the emelopectin that's the 628 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:40,720 Speaker 2: key ingredient in the sticky rice soup that helps strengthen 629 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 2: the mortar. It acts as an inhibitor, controlling the growth 630 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 2: of the calcium carbonate crystals, producing a compact microstructure. So 631 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 2: this results in improved mechanical strength, makes it less permeable 632 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 2: to water and more resistant to weather related stresses. They 633 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 2: also point out that it's it's key to recreate ate 634 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 2: this sort of mortar for restoration work on ancient buildings. 635 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,439 Speaker 2: I hadn't thought about this, but they make the case 636 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 2: that because modern mortar, of course, it's come a long ways, 637 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 2: and it can actually prove too strong and it can 638 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 2: damage older, softer bricks, which, of course I'm not sure 639 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 2: we're necessarily talking about situations where we're using mud bricks. 640 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 2: But it makes me think back to our discussion of 641 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 2: mud bricks on the show previously. 642 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 3: Oh interesting, but in this case, if they found it's 643 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 3: the amelopectin which gives the mortar the desirable quality. Here, 644 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 3: So this is why sticky rice in particular would be 645 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 3: useful because it's got the highest ratio of amelopectin the 646 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 3: lowest ratio of ammelose. 647 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 2: Yes and therefore apparently resulted in just a superior mortar 648 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 2: for a very long time. And you know that again 649 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 2: frequently used in things like like walls and tombs and 650 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 2: so forth, city walls in particular, so defensive structures. 651 00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 3: The sticky rice is not just delicious, it's not just 652 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 3: and muldable. It keeps us safe. 653 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's a it's fascinating to try and sort 654 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 2: of imagine these developments, you know, like how much of 655 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,840 Speaker 2: it is just let's try anything. Let's let's just experiment 656 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 2: with adding different organic and inorganic ingredients to mortar to 657 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 2: see what we can get, but also that kind of 658 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 2: experiential level of like, well, look at what happens with 659 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 2: this particular type of rice. We know how sticky it 660 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 2: can get. We know how chewy it can get. Let's 661 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,759 Speaker 2: experiment with just with adding this to the mortar. It 662 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,279 Speaker 2: makes sense and then it pays off gorgeous. Yeah, because 663 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 2: that what you want your buildings to stick together? Right? 664 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 3: All right, Well, maybe that is going to do it 665 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 3: for part one of the series, but we will be 666 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 3: back to talk about stickiness and sticky things more in 667 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:46,879 Speaker 3: part two. 668 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 2: That's right. We already have some avenues mapped out for 669 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 2: us here, but it's possible there's something we haven't thought of. 670 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 2: So if there's a particular sticky topic or sticky stickiness 671 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 2: related topic'd like for us discuss to discuss on this series, 672 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 2: just write in. We'd love to hear from you. A 673 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 2: reminder that Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a 674 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 2: science podcast with regular core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, 675 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 2: but on Mondays we do a little listener mail, on 676 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 2: Wednesdays we do a short form artifact or monster fact, 677 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 2: and on Fridays we set aside most serious concerns to 678 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 2: just talk about a weird film on Weird House Cinema. 679 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. 680 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us 681 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,240 Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 682 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 3: topic for the future, or just to say hello. You 683 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,680 Speaker 3: can email us at contact Stuff to Blow Your Mind 684 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 3: dot com. 685 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 686 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,919 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 687 00:39:52,080 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listening to your favorite shows.