1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:24,396 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Today on The Happiness Lab, we're continuing our series 2 00:00:24,436 --> 00:00:27,796 Speaker 1: on the unexpected creative ways that people cope with stress. 3 00:00:28,116 --> 00:00:29,996 Speaker 2: Can you hear me? Okay? Testing? 4 00:00:30,116 --> 00:00:32,316 Speaker 1: Testing, And in this episode, I have the tree of 5 00:00:32,356 --> 00:00:35,076 Speaker 1: speaking with someone who's featured prominently in some of my 6 00:00:35,156 --> 00:00:38,436 Speaker 1: all time favorite movies. So we usually just have folks 7 00:00:38,516 --> 00:00:42,036 Speaker 1: begin by introducing themselves. So tell us your name and 8 00:00:42,116 --> 00:00:42,716 Speaker 1: who you are. 9 00:00:42,596 --> 00:00:45,596 Speaker 2: And what you do. I'm Lily Taylor and I'm a 10 00:00:45,596 --> 00:00:48,876 Speaker 2: actor and I've done movies, TV and theater. 11 00:00:49,156 --> 00:00:51,196 Speaker 1: This is actually not the first time Lily's voice has 12 00:00:51,236 --> 00:00:53,596 Speaker 1: appeared on The Happiness Lab. If you're a fan of 13 00:00:53,636 --> 00:00:56,036 Speaker 1: the show, you might remember our how to series on 14 00:00:56,076 --> 00:00:59,676 Speaker 1: the Happiness Insights of romantic Comedies. Back then, I shared 15 00:00:59,716 --> 00:01:03,076 Speaker 1: an entire episode devoted to say anything the Coming of 16 00:01:03,076 --> 00:01:06,356 Speaker 1: Age Movies, starring John Cusack as the love struck underachiever 17 00:01:06,516 --> 00:01:10,636 Speaker 1: Lloyd Dobbler. Lily played Lloyd's musician best friend Corey, who 18 00:01:10,676 --> 00:01:14,276 Speaker 1: performed the emotionally charged and now iconic breakup song Joe 19 00:01:14,316 --> 00:01:20,836 Speaker 1: Lies jo Lies, Julyes. 20 00:01:22,956 --> 00:01:23,756 Speaker 2: Jelies. 21 00:01:25,356 --> 00:01:27,596 Speaker 1: I revisited the movie having not seen it since like 22 00:01:27,636 --> 00:01:29,796 Speaker 1: the eighties, right, and that was like one of the 23 00:01:29,836 --> 00:01:32,516 Speaker 1: parts that I genuinely remember it. Do you still play 24 00:01:32,636 --> 00:01:35,236 Speaker 1: Joe Lies? Or No, I don't. 25 00:01:35,036 --> 00:01:36,636 Speaker 2: Play it, but I get asked to sing it a 26 00:01:36,636 --> 00:01:37,676 Speaker 2: lot on the street. 27 00:01:38,156 --> 00:01:40,796 Speaker 1: Lily has had a rich and varied career since Say Anything. 28 00:01:41,396 --> 00:01:43,476 Speaker 1: You may know her from her lead role as Anne 29 00:01:43,516 --> 00:01:47,036 Speaker 1: Blaine in ABC's American Crime or as Lisa Kimmel in 30 00:01:47,236 --> 00:01:51,076 Speaker 1: HBO's Six Feet Under. Artists of her caliber often use 31 00:01:51,116 --> 00:01:53,676 Speaker 1: their work as a means of coping with difficult emotions, 32 00:01:54,116 --> 00:01:58,076 Speaker 1: a process that Freud famously referred to as sublimation. But 33 00:01:58,156 --> 00:02:00,476 Speaker 1: what happens when an artist's work is a thing that's 34 00:02:00,516 --> 00:02:03,276 Speaker 1: causing their stress? Where do you turn when your creative 35 00:02:03,276 --> 00:02:06,276 Speaker 1: outlet becomes a source of emotional weight. Lilli's had to 36 00:02:06,316 --> 00:02:10,196 Speaker 1: confront these questions throughout her acting career, especially during more 37 00:02:10,276 --> 00:02:11,076 Speaker 1: challenging roles. 38 00:02:11,516 --> 00:02:15,476 Speaker 2: Part of my job is that I merge with a character, 39 00:02:15,956 --> 00:02:18,316 Speaker 2: like maybe I'd been working with the character all day 40 00:02:18,356 --> 00:02:21,316 Speaker 2: and we've been in a really difficult situation, so we've 41 00:02:21,316 --> 00:02:24,916 Speaker 2: been crying all day, and then the day ends, I 42 00:02:24,996 --> 00:02:27,516 Speaker 2: need to leave her there and then I have to 43 00:02:27,596 --> 00:02:28,396 Speaker 2: return back to me. 44 00:02:28,916 --> 00:02:31,196 Speaker 1: But returning back to her own identity after a tough 45 00:02:31,316 --> 00:02:34,396 Speaker 1: role isn't the only challenge Lily's faced in her acting career, 46 00:02:34,756 --> 00:02:37,676 Speaker 1: and even tougher stressor is the ceaseless travel that being 47 00:02:37,756 --> 00:02:41,356 Speaker 1: a professional actor requires. Lily often finds herself filming on 48 00:02:41,436 --> 00:02:44,356 Speaker 1: location far away from home. She has to upbrew her 49 00:02:44,396 --> 00:02:46,796 Speaker 1: life and travel to another part of the world at 50 00:02:46,836 --> 00:02:48,596 Speaker 1: a moment's notice, so I. 51 00:02:48,556 --> 00:02:51,036 Speaker 2: Can be in my little routine and then I can 52 00:02:51,436 --> 00:02:54,996 Speaker 2: be somewhere else very quick, and I can be there 53 00:02:55,196 --> 00:02:59,676 Speaker 2: anywhere from a couple of weeks to six months to. 54 00:03:00,836 --> 00:03:04,356 Speaker 1: Even a year. She found herself in this very situation recently, 55 00:03:04,756 --> 00:03:07,556 Speaker 1: a new TV series sent her to Santa Fe, New Mexico. 56 00:03:07,996 --> 00:03:11,476 Speaker 1: During the project, struggled with more anxiety than usual. She 57 00:03:11,636 --> 00:03:15,276 Speaker 1: was homesick and worried about her performance. Plus the unconventional 58 00:03:15,276 --> 00:03:17,956 Speaker 1: studio space the show filmed in gave her an eerie, 59 00:03:18,196 --> 00:03:18,956 Speaker 1: uneasy feeling. 60 00:03:19,156 --> 00:03:23,356 Speaker 2: It was actually a school, a college that had been abandoned, 61 00:03:23,636 --> 00:03:26,516 Speaker 2: so it had even like a sad quality. You know, 62 00:03:26,596 --> 00:03:28,516 Speaker 2: it was full of life and now it's just like 63 00:03:28,596 --> 00:03:31,076 Speaker 2: empty dorms and tossed chairs. 64 00:03:31,436 --> 00:03:34,076 Speaker 1: Lily was used to a little discomfort while filming on location, 65 00:03:34,636 --> 00:03:37,316 Speaker 1: but this time was different. Her sense of stress and 66 00:03:37,356 --> 00:03:40,196 Speaker 1: disconnection was starting to feel overwhelming. 67 00:03:40,076 --> 00:03:43,356 Speaker 2: And then I realized, I'm actually just afraid, afraid of 68 00:03:43,396 --> 00:03:45,596 Speaker 2: the unknown, afraid of the character. I was going to 69 00:03:45,636 --> 00:03:47,036 Speaker 2: be there for about five months. 70 00:03:47,316 --> 00:03:49,796 Speaker 1: What could Lily do to make her strange space feel 71 00:03:49,836 --> 00:03:52,556 Speaker 1: like home? The answer came from above. 72 00:03:53,076 --> 00:03:57,196 Speaker 2: What happened was these house finches started to sing, and 73 00:03:57,276 --> 00:04:00,396 Speaker 2: I was aware of their song wherever I went, almost 74 00:04:00,476 --> 00:04:03,116 Speaker 2: like I was the baton that they were sort of 75 00:04:03,196 --> 00:04:06,836 Speaker 2: passing amongst each other, and they sort of asked me 76 00:04:07,036 --> 00:04:09,916 Speaker 2: from place to place, and so everywhere I went was like, oh, 77 00:04:09,956 --> 00:04:12,516 Speaker 2: there's a song. There's a song, and I felt sort 78 00:04:12,516 --> 00:04:16,836 Speaker 2: of welcomed. So I realized, okay, wait, I can use 79 00:04:16,876 --> 00:04:19,396 Speaker 2: that right now. I can set up a feeder, a 80 00:04:19,436 --> 00:04:22,116 Speaker 2: bird feeder, so I have some friends, so I can 81 00:04:22,156 --> 00:04:25,076 Speaker 2: get to my neighbors. My little house finches were my 82 00:04:25,156 --> 00:04:28,716 Speaker 2: main neighbors, so this place doesn't feel so foreign to me. 83 00:04:29,236 --> 00:04:31,956 Speaker 1: Willie says that she often finds herself turning to birds 84 00:04:32,076 --> 00:04:35,156 Speaker 1: during times of stress, hence the title of her new book, 85 00:04:35,396 --> 00:04:38,276 Speaker 1: Turning to Birds. The Power and beauty of noticing. 86 00:04:38,636 --> 00:04:41,796 Speaker 2: What I've realized about birds is, first of all, they're everywhere, 87 00:04:41,836 --> 00:04:44,836 Speaker 2: so I really have a friend anywhere I go, and 88 00:04:45,396 --> 00:04:50,116 Speaker 2: they're connected to where they are because they depend on 89 00:04:50,636 --> 00:04:54,276 Speaker 2: the environment, They depend on food sources, on water, so 90 00:04:54,916 --> 00:04:59,356 Speaker 2: they're almost like a guide, and there's usually a story 91 00:04:59,836 --> 00:05:03,276 Speaker 2: that brings me into other points of the whole area. 92 00:05:03,956 --> 00:05:06,396 Speaker 2: It's like, even if someone's not into birds, there's still 93 00:05:06,436 --> 00:05:08,636 Speaker 2: a pretty interesting way to get to know a place. 94 00:05:09,196 --> 00:05:13,356 Speaker 2: You know. National Audubon has upbrays Birds tell Us, and 95 00:05:13,396 --> 00:05:16,196 Speaker 2: I love it because, like, birds tell me what is 96 00:05:16,236 --> 00:05:19,436 Speaker 2: going on in New Mexico. They tell me there's lots 97 00:05:19,476 --> 00:05:22,996 Speaker 2: of different ecosystems, there's lots of different altitudes. They give 98 00:05:23,036 --> 00:05:26,796 Speaker 2: you a deeper sense of where you are. And like 99 00:05:26,916 --> 00:05:29,116 Speaker 2: I realized, I don't know where I am a lot, 100 00:05:29,556 --> 00:05:32,116 Speaker 2: like in a deep way, where's north? Even I don't 101 00:05:32,116 --> 00:05:34,716 Speaker 2: even know where north is? What am I standing on? 102 00:05:34,796 --> 00:05:37,396 Speaker 2: What's around me? I don't know anything. And when I 103 00:05:37,436 --> 00:05:40,596 Speaker 2: start to realize, like, oh, I'm standing on a glacier 104 00:05:40,636 --> 00:05:44,276 Speaker 2: that moved ten thousand years ago, makes me feel like 105 00:05:44,516 --> 00:05:47,036 Speaker 2: really a part of time, a part of history. So 106 00:05:47,116 --> 00:05:50,036 Speaker 2: if I'm going to make the new place home, one 107 00:05:50,076 --> 00:05:53,956 Speaker 2: of my ways in is birds. When I get to 108 00:05:53,956 --> 00:05:57,036 Speaker 2: know the birds, I get to know the environment, and 109 00:05:57,076 --> 00:06:01,516 Speaker 2: so anywhere I go starts to take on more meaning 110 00:06:01,636 --> 00:06:03,476 Speaker 2: in that I can be on the highway that can 111 00:06:03,516 --> 00:06:06,636 Speaker 2: feel lonely, but I know there's a river right next 112 00:06:06,676 --> 00:06:10,316 Speaker 2: to me, and I know that there's habita beyond her. 113 00:06:12,036 --> 00:06:14,476 Speaker 2: I know all these things that start to make the 114 00:06:14,556 --> 00:06:16,436 Speaker 2: place feel friendlier to me. 115 00:06:17,076 --> 00:06:20,076 Speaker 1: Birds also help Lily find peace after an emotionally draining 116 00:06:20,116 --> 00:06:22,556 Speaker 1: day on the job. They can help her finally settle 117 00:06:22,596 --> 00:06:25,036 Speaker 1: down after bringing a complex character to life. 118 00:06:25,356 --> 00:06:28,476 Speaker 2: Going to just fit and just watch some birds and 119 00:06:28,636 --> 00:06:32,796 Speaker 2: just relax, like I guess, would be my transition back 120 00:06:32,836 --> 00:06:35,356 Speaker 2: into myself. I guess, just the equivalent of a afternoon 121 00:06:35,396 --> 00:06:38,276 Speaker 2: martini that they used to do in the old days. 122 00:06:38,796 --> 00:06:41,436 Speaker 2: But we all need to find ways to leave the 123 00:06:41,596 --> 00:06:45,316 Speaker 2: job and go back to ourselves. And birds can be 124 00:06:45,356 --> 00:06:47,756 Speaker 2: a transition because they can just sort of bring you 125 00:06:47,796 --> 00:06:49,116 Speaker 2: from one world to the other. 126 00:06:49,756 --> 00:06:52,556 Speaker 1: And that's why Lilly invests in creating inviting spaces for 127 00:06:52,636 --> 00:06:56,716 Speaker 1: birds wherever she goes, including that abandoned college campus that 128 00:06:56,756 --> 00:06:59,676 Speaker 1: she had previously found so unwelcoming. All it took was 129 00:06:59,716 --> 00:07:02,116 Speaker 1: a quick trip to the hardware store, some bird seed 130 00:07:02,236 --> 00:07:03,396 Speaker 1: and a bit of elbow grease. 131 00:07:03,956 --> 00:07:07,516 Speaker 2: So I bought a birdhouse, and I bought a bird feeder, 132 00:07:07,516 --> 00:07:10,236 Speaker 2: and I bought a water tray, and then I bought 133 00:07:10,236 --> 00:07:13,196 Speaker 2: a hummingbird feeder, and then a whole habitat started to 134 00:07:13,236 --> 00:07:16,556 Speaker 2: get created. You can sort of make something out of nothing. 135 00:07:17,316 --> 00:07:18,076 Speaker 2: Life will come. 136 00:07:18,356 --> 00:07:20,756 Speaker 1: So how did you get into birds in the first place? Right, 137 00:07:20,796 --> 00:07:22,676 Speaker 1: it seems like you have this deep connection with them, 138 00:07:22,676 --> 00:07:24,876 Speaker 1: But like, what's the origin story there? How did it start? 139 00:07:25,756 --> 00:07:29,196 Speaker 2: I feel like I always knew about them, more than 140 00:07:29,636 --> 00:07:32,996 Speaker 2: maybe the average person. My parents put out a feeder 141 00:07:33,236 --> 00:07:37,516 Speaker 2: and water and breadcrumbs. I had an awareness of them. 142 00:07:37,636 --> 00:07:40,476 Speaker 2: I liked them. I thought they were interesting. But the 143 00:07:40,516 --> 00:07:43,676 Speaker 2: whole thing with me was I wasn't really noticing them. 144 00:07:44,276 --> 00:07:47,956 Speaker 2: And that happened when I had a quiet moment very 145 00:07:47,996 --> 00:07:50,956 Speaker 2: similar to everyone else's COVID moment where a lot of 146 00:07:50,956 --> 00:07:54,796 Speaker 2: people slowed down. During COVID people started to get into 147 00:07:54,836 --> 00:07:58,756 Speaker 2: different things, and some people did get into birds during 148 00:07:58,756 --> 00:08:03,756 Speaker 2: that COVID moment. Well, mine happened just fifteen twenty years earlier. 149 00:08:04,236 --> 00:08:06,316 Speaker 1: At the time, Lily had been going from project to 150 00:08:06,356 --> 00:08:09,676 Speaker 1: project without a break. She was noticing all this sucological 151 00:08:09,716 --> 00:08:13,476 Speaker 1: signs of burnout. She was emotionally exhausted and feeling uninspired 152 00:08:13,516 --> 00:08:15,836 Speaker 1: by her work with her star on the Rise. She 153 00:08:15,876 --> 00:08:18,956 Speaker 1: could have kept pushing, but instead she chose to do 154 00:08:18,996 --> 00:08:21,356 Speaker 1: the courageous thing we recommend a lot on this show, 155 00:08:21,756 --> 00:08:23,996 Speaker 1: and something that I did myself when I was feeling 156 00:08:23,996 --> 00:08:26,356 Speaker 1: burned out. Lily took a sabbatical. 157 00:08:26,796 --> 00:08:30,116 Speaker 2: I was so depleted and exhausted and maybe hadn't been 158 00:08:30,156 --> 00:08:33,196 Speaker 2: listening to myself. What's a great example of a door 159 00:08:33,276 --> 00:08:36,076 Speaker 2: closes and a door opens, sonus. We have to kind 160 00:08:36,076 --> 00:08:38,956 Speaker 2: of bring ourselves to that sort of heightened level right 161 00:08:38,996 --> 00:08:40,916 Speaker 2: in order to get a message. It's like a nightmare. 162 00:08:41,236 --> 00:08:44,236 Speaker 2: You know. Nightmares aren't necessarily bad. They can sometimes really 163 00:08:44,356 --> 00:08:47,356 Speaker 2: say hey, I really easy to listen to this, And 164 00:08:47,396 --> 00:08:48,476 Speaker 2: that's kind of what I had. 165 00:08:48,836 --> 00:08:51,836 Speaker 1: During her sabbatical, Lily retreated to her home in upstate 166 00:08:51,916 --> 00:08:55,396 Speaker 1: New York, which sits on one hundred acres of protected farmland. 167 00:08:55,956 --> 00:08:58,636 Speaker 1: Most years, the property would be busy with incoming trucks 168 00:08:58,676 --> 00:09:01,676 Speaker 1: and the incessant buzz of farming equipment. But this year, 169 00:09:01,756 --> 00:09:03,996 Speaker 1: the farmers who tended the land chose to let it 170 00:09:04,036 --> 00:09:06,636 Speaker 1: lie fallow. They were giving the soil a break so 171 00:09:06,676 --> 00:09:08,876 Speaker 1: that it could heal for the future. All the usual 172 00:09:08,876 --> 00:09:15,196 Speaker 1: acts activity, all the usual buzz. It just stopped. That 173 00:09:15,356 --> 00:09:18,196 Speaker 1: silence felt like the perfect metaphor for the grace Lily 174 00:09:18,276 --> 00:09:20,116 Speaker 1: was trying to give herself, And. 175 00:09:20,116 --> 00:09:23,956 Speaker 2: So things quieted down. I started to hear things in 176 00:09:23,996 --> 00:09:26,796 Speaker 2: a way that I hadn't before, and so there was 177 00:09:26,796 --> 00:09:29,716 Speaker 2: that space where I was able to say, wait a minute, 178 00:09:29,836 --> 00:09:32,916 Speaker 2: that thing that I'm hearing, that call, that bird call, 179 00:09:33,676 --> 00:09:36,796 Speaker 2: is not just a general call. There is something going 180 00:09:36,876 --> 00:09:40,196 Speaker 2: on there, and realize there's stories going on out there, 181 00:09:40,716 --> 00:09:45,556 Speaker 2: There's things with meaning, drama, mating, death, life, the will 182 00:09:45,596 --> 00:09:49,756 Speaker 2: to live. And so then I started following those noises, 183 00:09:49,796 --> 00:09:55,596 Speaker 2: those sounds. I followed it into different kinds of life 184 00:09:56,316 --> 00:10:00,116 Speaker 2: and start to look outside myself and see what's around me, 185 00:10:00,516 --> 00:10:01,436 Speaker 2: start to pay attention. 186 00:10:02,196 --> 00:10:04,156 Speaker 1: In the book, you taught me something really interesting, which 187 00:10:04,236 --> 00:10:06,356 Speaker 1: was the Latin root of attention, which I guess is 188 00:10:06,476 --> 00:10:10,676 Speaker 1: tender ray, which is like tendon reaching towards which I 189 00:10:10,716 --> 00:10:13,636 Speaker 1: really love this idea of reaching towards How do birds 190 00:10:13,636 --> 00:10:15,596 Speaker 1: cause you to reach towards them? And what does that 191 00:10:15,636 --> 00:10:17,596 Speaker 1: do to your emotions and your sense of joy? 192 00:10:19,196 --> 00:10:22,396 Speaker 2: So, I mean, they are full of life, they're beautiful, 193 00:10:23,076 --> 00:10:27,556 Speaker 2: they fly. There's usually some question that comes from just 194 00:10:27,676 --> 00:10:31,276 Speaker 2: watching them, observing them. That leads to other questions. I 195 00:10:31,316 --> 00:10:37,596 Speaker 2: think we're drawn to mystery, and so reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, stretch, streat, stretch, stress, stretch. 196 00:10:38,196 --> 00:10:41,916 Speaker 1: But what are the emotional benefits of all this? Reach, reach, reach, stretch, stretch, 197 00:10:41,916 --> 00:10:45,196 Speaker 1: stretch towards things of beauty? After the break, we'll turn 198 00:10:45,236 --> 00:10:49,316 Speaker 1: to the surprising positive psychological effects of bird watching. We'll 199 00:10:49,316 --> 00:10:51,916 Speaker 1: hear about the power of awe, and we'll learn why 200 00:10:51,956 --> 00:10:54,996 Speaker 1: tracking a reclusive cat bird may offer the same benefits 201 00:10:55,076 --> 00:11:06,396 Speaker 1: as meditation. The Happiness Lab will be right back. As 202 00:11:06,436 --> 00:11:08,636 Speaker 1: a professor, I get to travel a lot for work, 203 00:11:09,116 --> 00:11:11,276 Speaker 1: and I'm often asked what's the best place I've ever 204 00:11:11,316 --> 00:11:13,916 Speaker 1: had the chance to visit? And my answer is pretty 205 00:11:13,956 --> 00:11:16,876 Speaker 1: much always the same. If you get the opportunity, I say, 206 00:11:17,396 --> 00:11:21,076 Speaker 1: find a way to visit the Galapagos. The Galapagos Islands 207 00:11:21,076 --> 00:11:24,356 Speaker 1: are a small volcanic archipelago about six hundred miles off 208 00:11:24,356 --> 00:11:27,036 Speaker 1: the coast of Ecuador. They're most well known for being 209 00:11:27,036 --> 00:11:30,076 Speaker 1: the spot where Charles Darwin began formulating his famous theory 210 00:11:30,076 --> 00:11:33,116 Speaker 1: of natural selection. And if you visit the islands, you'll 211 00:11:33,116 --> 00:11:36,436 Speaker 1: immediately see why they inspired Darwin so much. Because the 212 00:11:36,476 --> 00:11:39,276 Speaker 1: Galapagos are about as untouched today as they were when 213 00:11:39,316 --> 00:11:42,676 Speaker 1: Charles Darwin visited them back in the eighteen hundreds. These 214 00:11:42,716 --> 00:11:44,676 Speaker 1: islands are one of the few places in the world 215 00:11:44,836 --> 00:11:47,836 Speaker 1: where the animals aren't afraid of people. You can sit 216 00:11:47,876 --> 00:11:50,796 Speaker 1: and watch them closely while they go about their daily lives. 217 00:11:51,396 --> 00:11:53,756 Speaker 1: On a typical visit, you'll get to sorcle with sea 218 00:11:53,796 --> 00:11:57,036 Speaker 1: lion pups who twhirl and play all around you. You'll 219 00:11:57,036 --> 00:12:00,076 Speaker 1: get to watch giant tortoises slowly lumbering through the trees, 220 00:12:00,436 --> 00:12:03,116 Speaker 1: and marine iguanas chilling out in big piles on the beach. 221 00:12:03,676 --> 00:12:05,516 Speaker 1: But the real highlight is that you get to watch 222 00:12:05,556 --> 00:12:09,116 Speaker 1: the unique mating rituals of lots and lots of incredible birth. 223 00:12:10,236 --> 00:12:12,996 Speaker 1: The blue footed booby is the Galapago species that gets 224 00:12:12,996 --> 00:12:16,676 Speaker 1: the most airtime, which makes sense because they are really awesome. 225 00:12:17,196 --> 00:12:20,596 Speaker 1: They somehow manage to be both incredibly beautiful and incredibly 226 00:12:20,636 --> 00:12:24,156 Speaker 1: goofy looking at the same time. But my favorite Galapagos 227 00:12:24,196 --> 00:12:27,916 Speaker 1: bird has always been the waved albatross. It's a mostly 228 00:12:27,956 --> 00:12:31,156 Speaker 1: brown bird with a striking white head and a very sharp, 229 00:12:31,196 --> 00:12:34,956 Speaker 1: bright yellow beak, and waved albatross are huge, with a 230 00:12:34,996 --> 00:12:37,916 Speaker 1: two and a half meter wingspan. They're the largest birds 231 00:12:37,956 --> 00:12:40,956 Speaker 1: in the entire archipelago. But the reason I love this 232 00:12:40,996 --> 00:12:44,316 Speaker 1: species so much is because of its unique mating ritual. 233 00:12:45,196 --> 00:12:48,796 Speaker 1: Like many bird species, waved albatross mate for life, so 234 00:12:48,836 --> 00:12:50,836 Speaker 1: they put a lot of work into not only finding 235 00:12:50,876 --> 00:12:54,276 Speaker 1: the right partner, but also re establishing their relationships when 236 00:12:54,276 --> 00:12:56,316 Speaker 1: they meet up after being apart for the whole year, 237 00:12:57,036 --> 00:13:00,556 Speaker 1: and their highly ritualized mating dance is completely over the top. 238 00:13:01,196 --> 00:13:05,476 Speaker 1: One biologist christened it the ecstatic ritual. It's got these slow, 239 00:13:05,556 --> 00:13:08,196 Speaker 1: sweet parts where the partners use their sharp beaks to 240 00:13:08,276 --> 00:13:12,036 Speaker 1: gently caress one but it also gets weird, like when 241 00:13:12,036 --> 00:13:15,316 Speaker 1: the pair begin what's called their head swaying walk, moving 242 00:13:15,396 --> 00:13:19,756 Speaker 1: back and forth while exaggeratedly bobbing their heads across their bodies. Oh, 243 00:13:19,876 --> 00:13:22,716 Speaker 1: and then there's a comical moments of big fencing in 244 00:13:22,756 --> 00:13:25,196 Speaker 1: which the pairs start fake fighting one another as though 245 00:13:25,236 --> 00:13:28,836 Speaker 1: they're sword fighting with their faces. The entire ritual is 246 00:13:28,836 --> 00:13:35,716 Speaker 1: punctuated with these funny a hank calls am. But the 247 00:13:35,716 --> 00:13:38,476 Speaker 1: best part is when the couple just stops the entire dance. 248 00:13:38,956 --> 00:13:41,676 Speaker 1: They just pause and sit there lovingly looking into one 249 00:13:41,676 --> 00:13:45,276 Speaker 1: another's eyes. I've only had a chance to watch this 250 00:13:45,316 --> 00:13:48,836 Speaker 1: display live twice in my life, but both times I 251 00:13:48,956 --> 00:13:51,516 Speaker 1: was moved to tears. I was just filled with this 252 00:13:51,636 --> 00:13:56,516 Speaker 1: sense of overwhelming transcendence. This sensation is now something I 253 00:13:56,596 --> 00:13:59,996 Speaker 1: recognize as the emotion of awe, a feeling that the 254 00:14:00,036 --> 00:14:04,596 Speaker 1: American Psychological Association defines is the experience of admiration and 255 00:14:04,636 --> 00:14:08,436 Speaker 1: elevation in response to physical beauty. Awe is an emotion 256 00:14:08,636 --> 00:14:13,276 Speaker 1: the actors and bird lover Lily Taylor prioritizes experiencing very often, 257 00:14:13,876 --> 00:14:16,516 Speaker 1: and unlike me, she doesn't need to travel halfway around 258 00:14:16,516 --> 00:14:18,636 Speaker 1: the world to find a bird that will give her 259 00:14:18,636 --> 00:14:21,996 Speaker 1: the sensation. In fact, Lily meets birds who give her 260 00:14:22,036 --> 00:14:25,116 Speaker 1: a sense of awe in the most bundant places, like 261 00:14:25,316 --> 00:14:26,276 Speaker 1: the heart of Manhattan. 262 00:14:26,876 --> 00:14:30,196 Speaker 2: I was going into Central Park and it's like three 263 00:14:30,276 --> 00:14:33,676 Speaker 2: hundred yards in from fifty ninth Street. I hadn't really 264 00:14:33,796 --> 00:14:37,436 Speaker 2: kind of connected to myself, and all of a sudden 265 00:14:37,476 --> 00:14:41,036 Speaker 2: I felt emotion. I started to feel like I was 266 00:14:41,036 --> 00:14:46,516 Speaker 2: going to cry. I was stopped. I was feeling a 267 00:14:46,556 --> 00:14:50,556 Speaker 2: part of something. I was in awe. Some feelings were 268 00:14:50,596 --> 00:14:52,956 Speaker 2: coming up that maybe I had been pushing away, but 269 00:14:52,996 --> 00:14:54,796 Speaker 2: they didn't kill me, and they weren't going to hurt me. 270 00:14:55,316 --> 00:14:57,476 Speaker 2: I don't know why I was afraid of them. They 271 00:14:57,556 --> 00:14:58,596 Speaker 2: just sort of wash over. 272 00:14:59,036 --> 00:15:00,596 Speaker 1: I think that's one of the most interesting things that 273 00:15:00,636 --> 00:15:02,276 Speaker 1: we know from the science of a is that it's 274 00:15:02,316 --> 00:15:04,636 Speaker 1: not a purely positive emotion, right. It kind of makes 275 00:15:04,716 --> 00:15:06,996 Speaker 1: us feel small. It kind of has this fear component, 276 00:15:07,276 --> 00:15:09,796 Speaker 1: but there's so much evidence that experience it makes us 277 00:15:10,196 --> 00:15:13,196 Speaker 1: feel better. Ultimately, we feel more connected to people, we 278 00:15:13,236 --> 00:15:15,876 Speaker 1: feel more connected to things beyond us, And so it's 279 00:15:15,876 --> 00:15:17,596 Speaker 1: such a funny emotion because it's one of these few 280 00:15:17,636 --> 00:15:20,756 Speaker 1: emotions that like has these negative components, but ultimately taking 281 00:15:20,756 --> 00:15:23,236 Speaker 1: time to experience it makes us feel so much better. 282 00:15:23,956 --> 00:15:27,596 Speaker 2: Yes, just like planting your feet and just saying I'll 283 00:15:27,636 --> 00:15:30,956 Speaker 2: stick this through this thunder, this frightening whatever it is. 284 00:15:31,436 --> 00:15:34,876 Speaker 2: It's almost like you're open and then things can come in. 285 00:15:35,316 --> 00:15:37,556 Speaker 2: It's like receptivity can be really scary. 286 00:15:37,996 --> 00:15:39,676 Speaker 1: Another thing that gets to come in though, is like 287 00:15:39,716 --> 00:15:42,076 Speaker 1: the appreciation that we have for things. And these were 288 00:15:42,076 --> 00:15:43,796 Speaker 1: some of the most beautiful parts of your book. It 289 00:15:43,836 --> 00:15:46,316 Speaker 1: seems like you really do a lot of savoring of birds, 290 00:15:46,596 --> 00:15:48,436 Speaker 1: and this is something we know from the psychology, This 291 00:15:48,516 --> 00:15:51,636 Speaker 1: act of savoring noticing the good things, noticing the delights, 292 00:15:51,996 --> 00:15:54,196 Speaker 1: like that is what we need to have a fulfilled life. 293 00:15:54,476 --> 00:15:57,676 Speaker 2: You know, I love that word. I hadn't really realized 294 00:15:57,996 --> 00:16:01,756 Speaker 2: how important that is. But I guess what birds have 295 00:16:01,836 --> 00:16:04,396 Speaker 2: helped me do is slow down. Because I move fast, 296 00:16:04,556 --> 00:16:06,756 Speaker 2: part of why I'm moving fast is getting away from 297 00:16:06,796 --> 00:16:09,476 Speaker 2: something inside. I was doing this more like in my 298 00:16:09,556 --> 00:16:13,396 Speaker 2: teens in twenties was like running from some kind of 299 00:16:13,796 --> 00:16:15,996 Speaker 2: thing that I thought was going to devour me or something. 300 00:16:16,556 --> 00:16:19,676 Speaker 2: I still move fast with. Birds have helped me slow down, 301 00:16:19,676 --> 00:16:22,556 Speaker 2: And so I guess I can just say, wait, am 302 00:16:22,556 --> 00:16:25,356 Speaker 2: I savoring right now? Or am I not use that 303 00:16:25,396 --> 00:16:28,236 Speaker 2: as a barometer, like, wait, no, I'm not savoring at 304 00:16:28,236 --> 00:16:29,276 Speaker 2: all right now. 305 00:16:29,396 --> 00:16:31,596 Speaker 1: I want to turn to this idea of just how 306 00:16:31,596 --> 00:16:34,196 Speaker 1: helpful birds are in terms of slowing down. You seem 307 00:16:34,236 --> 00:16:35,556 Speaker 1: like the kind of person that would be sort of 308 00:16:35,636 --> 00:16:37,796 Speaker 1: into meditation and so on, But in the book you 309 00:16:37,796 --> 00:16:39,956 Speaker 1: talked about how that wasn't your path to kind of 310 00:16:39,996 --> 00:16:42,436 Speaker 1: being present. You know, I might be one of those 311 00:16:42,476 --> 00:16:47,916 Speaker 1: people that maybe meditation isn't good for me. I found sometimes, 312 00:16:48,076 --> 00:16:51,156 Speaker 1: especially in my twenties and thirties, that things got even 313 00:16:51,236 --> 00:16:54,556 Speaker 1: louder when I meditated to the point that I felt 314 00:16:54,596 --> 00:16:57,396 Speaker 1: worse when it ended. And so maybe I'm just one 315 00:16:57,436 --> 00:17:00,396 Speaker 1: of those people that I need like an activity or something. 316 00:17:01,036 --> 00:17:03,996 Speaker 2: I need something outside of myself. Maybe I need that 317 00:17:04,076 --> 00:17:04,716 Speaker 2: extra help. 318 00:17:05,116 --> 00:17:06,956 Speaker 1: And Birds were that for you? Explain kind of how 319 00:17:06,996 --> 00:17:08,316 Speaker 1: birds are like your meditation. 320 00:17:09,156 --> 00:17:12,756 Speaker 2: Well, I'm focusing on something that's not me. I'm focusing 321 00:17:12,796 --> 00:17:17,156 Speaker 2: on something that's a part of something greater that I'm 322 00:17:17,156 --> 00:17:17,876 Speaker 2: a part of too. 323 00:17:18,356 --> 00:17:20,116 Speaker 1: Talk to me a little bit about the listening skills 324 00:17:20,156 --> 00:17:22,676 Speaker 1: you brought to birds and how you're training kind of 325 00:17:22,716 --> 00:17:24,796 Speaker 1: in a very different domain. Was sort of helpful for that. 326 00:17:25,556 --> 00:17:30,796 Speaker 2: So acting is usually one character is talking to another. 327 00:17:31,316 --> 00:17:34,276 Speaker 2: There's a lot of just listening. Like when I'm doing 328 00:17:34,276 --> 00:17:38,396 Speaker 2: the play, I'm listening for two hours an you know, 329 00:17:38,876 --> 00:17:42,516 Speaker 2: on a deeper level, I'm not to really take in 330 00:17:43,156 --> 00:17:46,476 Speaker 2: that other actor and be as open as I can 331 00:17:46,556 --> 00:17:48,956 Speaker 2: to them because that's going to light up my mirror neurons. 332 00:17:48,996 --> 00:17:52,036 Speaker 2: That's gonna set a lot of stuff in motion. And 333 00:17:52,076 --> 00:17:54,956 Speaker 2: that's really what's going on, not my own little memories 334 00:17:54,956 --> 00:17:57,116 Speaker 2: of whatever I'm trying to do for the character that's 335 00:17:57,156 --> 00:18:00,916 Speaker 2: not as interesting or as alive. So I find that 336 00:18:01,356 --> 00:18:03,996 Speaker 2: when I start to get into listening more as a verb. 337 00:18:04,596 --> 00:18:06,836 Speaker 2: That was a much more active way for me to 338 00:18:06,916 --> 00:18:11,116 Speaker 2: get kind of grounded, as opposed to I'm trying to 339 00:18:11,116 --> 00:18:13,276 Speaker 2: be present or I'm trying to be in the moment, 340 00:18:13,836 --> 00:18:16,236 Speaker 2: which was very vague for me, and I didn't know 341 00:18:16,516 --> 00:18:18,916 Speaker 2: what was the criteria, Like, well, how do I know 342 00:18:18,956 --> 00:18:21,116 Speaker 2: if I'm in the moment? There's nothing to hang on 343 00:18:21,196 --> 00:18:23,316 Speaker 2: too except judgment in a way or feeling like I 344 00:18:23,356 --> 00:18:26,516 Speaker 2: didn't get there, but listening, like I know when I'm listening, 345 00:18:26,796 --> 00:18:29,076 Speaker 2: and I know when I'm not, Like there's somewhere to 346 00:18:29,116 --> 00:18:32,396 Speaker 2: start with listening. And I've gotten more compassionate, I guess, 347 00:18:32,396 --> 00:18:35,716 Speaker 2: and that to expect myself to listen perfectly and one 348 00:18:35,796 --> 00:18:39,236 Speaker 2: hundred percent is unrealistic. It's not going to happen. That's 349 00:18:39,516 --> 00:18:43,556 Speaker 2: something I've used with acting. And then because I'm acting 350 00:18:43,556 --> 00:18:45,716 Speaker 2: a lot, I've been working it a lot, and it 351 00:18:45,756 --> 00:18:48,516 Speaker 2: because I realized it's a skill. Yay, I can do 352 00:18:48,596 --> 00:18:49,836 Speaker 2: something I can practice. 353 00:18:50,036 --> 00:18:52,076 Speaker 1: As I was speaking with Lily, I couldn't help but 354 00:18:52,116 --> 00:18:55,036 Speaker 1: think of the work of Harvard psychologists and mindfulness expert 355 00:18:55,076 --> 00:18:58,516 Speaker 1: Ellen Langer. Lily's book celebrates the power and beauty of 356 00:18:58,596 --> 00:19:02,236 Speaker 1: noticing that come with being a burner. Ellen describes mindfulness 357 00:19:02,236 --> 00:19:06,236 Speaker 1: as the process of actively noticing new things. Like Lily, 358 00:19:06,396 --> 00:19:08,956 Speaker 1: Ellen was always frustrated with the common advice to be 359 00:19:09,116 --> 00:19:11,916 Speaker 1: in the present moment. She's even called the idea an 360 00:19:11,956 --> 00:19:16,156 Speaker 1: empty instruction. Instead, she argues that to truly ground yourself 361 00:19:16,196 --> 00:19:19,156 Speaker 1: in the present moment, you need to intentionally notice new 362 00:19:19,196 --> 00:19:22,516 Speaker 1: things about your environment, and research shows that this practice 363 00:19:22,676 --> 00:19:26,476 Speaker 1: has significant physical and psychological benefits. It can help you 364 00:19:26,516 --> 00:19:31,076 Speaker 1: manage anxiety, depression, and everyday stress. Lily uses this more 365 00:19:31,076 --> 00:19:34,436 Speaker 1: intentional path to mindfulness every time she notices something new, 366 00:19:34,876 --> 00:19:37,916 Speaker 1: a bird's song, their plumage, even a subtle change in 367 00:19:37,916 --> 00:19:40,876 Speaker 1: their habitat. So it's no surprise that Lily's getting better 368 00:19:40,916 --> 00:19:44,636 Speaker 1: and better at regulating her emotions more effectively, especially when 369 00:19:44,636 --> 00:19:45,716 Speaker 1: things don't go her way. 370 00:19:46,036 --> 00:19:48,836 Speaker 2: Birding has a lot of falling down and getting back up, 371 00:19:49,356 --> 00:19:53,076 Speaker 2: a lot of trying too hard, willing jumping the gun, 372 00:19:53,836 --> 00:19:58,076 Speaker 2: and so instead of yelling at myself, just being gentler 373 00:19:58,316 --> 00:20:02,156 Speaker 2: because I used to yell at myself. That's so not constructive. 374 00:20:02,476 --> 00:20:05,156 Speaker 2: And on stage too, It's like when I'm on stage 375 00:20:05,156 --> 00:20:06,556 Speaker 2: and I go out of the moment, you know, to 376 00:20:06,716 --> 00:20:09,276 Speaker 2: yell at myself inside. I know a lot lot of 377 00:20:09,316 --> 00:20:12,516 Speaker 2: other actors do that too, But that practice, I guess, 378 00:20:12,636 --> 00:20:15,076 Speaker 2: of going in and out, you start to just get 379 00:20:15,116 --> 00:20:17,236 Speaker 2: back in, Just get back look at the bird. Just 380 00:20:17,236 --> 00:20:17,876 Speaker 2: look at the bird. 381 00:20:17,916 --> 00:20:19,916 Speaker 1: It's all we got to do. So watching birds is 382 00:20:19,916 --> 00:20:21,476 Speaker 1: funny because on the one hand, they kind of get 383 00:20:21,516 --> 00:20:23,716 Speaker 1: us to slow down. But I think on the other hand, 384 00:20:23,756 --> 00:20:25,996 Speaker 1: they can kind of just teach us that, like life 385 00:20:26,116 --> 00:20:28,716 Speaker 1: is going on, just do your thing and stop worrying. 386 00:20:28,876 --> 00:20:30,676 Speaker 1: Like is that something that you get out of birds too, 387 00:20:30,716 --> 00:20:32,036 Speaker 1: just kind of watching them do their thing. 388 00:20:32,476 --> 00:20:36,836 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they are moving forward. They don't stop 389 00:20:36,956 --> 00:20:40,556 Speaker 2: and hang around. They are moving and we should be 390 00:20:40,636 --> 00:20:43,276 Speaker 2: too in some ways, even if it's inside. We shouldn't 391 00:20:43,276 --> 00:20:47,076 Speaker 2: be resenting or stagnating inside our mind. We should be 392 00:20:47,676 --> 00:20:50,356 Speaker 2: trying to move forward in our mind. I mean when 393 00:20:50,356 --> 00:20:53,956 Speaker 2: I'm looking at the birds migrating in the spring, and 394 00:20:54,596 --> 00:20:57,636 Speaker 2: I know they've gone through so much and you would 395 00:20:57,676 --> 00:21:01,756 Speaker 2: never know it. They are facing obstacles and they just 396 00:21:02,036 --> 00:21:04,476 Speaker 2: their eyes are on the prize and they keep moving forward. 397 00:21:04,756 --> 00:21:07,036 Speaker 2: And I just think, well, I can too. They're a 398 00:21:07,076 --> 00:21:10,716 Speaker 2: power of example. Keep going, don't sit and fret. You 399 00:21:10,836 --> 00:21:11,596 Speaker 2: got things to do. 400 00:21:11,836 --> 00:21:13,396 Speaker 1: You had this lovely story. I think it was a 401 00:21:13,396 --> 00:21:15,396 Speaker 1: catbird in Bryant Park where you sort of had to 402 00:21:15,436 --> 00:21:18,076 Speaker 1: realize and step back a little bit, share that story 403 00:21:18,076 --> 00:21:18,756 Speaker 1: and what you learned. 404 00:21:19,276 --> 00:21:21,276 Speaker 2: So I went into Bran Park, and I thought I 405 00:21:21,316 --> 00:21:23,996 Speaker 2: was being really open, because like, I took a risk 406 00:21:24,036 --> 00:21:25,636 Speaker 2: to go into this park when I didn't feel like 407 00:21:25,676 --> 00:21:27,876 Speaker 2: going in, and so I came in looking for a 408 00:21:27,876 --> 00:21:30,356 Speaker 2: catbird and I was like, yeah, and I'm looking for 409 00:21:30,396 --> 00:21:33,276 Speaker 2: a common bird and I know a catbird. And I 410 00:21:33,316 --> 00:21:36,476 Speaker 2: went in really kind of like confident to the point 411 00:21:36,516 --> 00:21:39,076 Speaker 2: of being cocky, and I realized I really was like 412 00:21:39,156 --> 00:21:42,196 Speaker 2: I feel like John Travolta, like I'm strutting almost, you know. 413 00:21:42,796 --> 00:21:46,876 Speaker 2: And then just the bravado or that confidence just wore 414 00:21:46,956 --> 00:21:50,156 Speaker 2: down quickly, like I wasn't finding anything first of all, 415 00:21:50,636 --> 00:21:54,476 Speaker 2: not even a friggin squirrel or a house sparrow, nothing, 416 00:21:55,356 --> 00:21:59,396 Speaker 2: because I wasn't receptive. And then I realized I really 417 00:21:59,396 --> 00:22:02,156 Speaker 2: didn't know the catbird at all. A bird. I thought 418 00:22:02,196 --> 00:22:04,276 Speaker 2: I knew a common bird. I've heard a lot, seen 419 00:22:04,316 --> 00:22:07,556 Speaker 2: a lot. No, I didn't noticed it. Really, I didn't 420 00:22:07,876 --> 00:22:10,356 Speaker 2: really observed it thought about it. Where does it even 421 00:22:10,476 --> 00:22:11,876 Speaker 2: like to be? I don't even know where it likes 422 00:22:11,916 --> 00:22:15,996 Speaker 2: to be low high. So then I had a little 423 00:22:15,996 --> 00:22:20,036 Speaker 2: surrender out of being uncomfortable and beat it and overwhelmed. 424 00:22:20,396 --> 00:22:23,476 Speaker 2: So then I started with manageable. Okay, step by step. 425 00:22:23,836 --> 00:22:25,516 Speaker 2: Where am I right now? I'm in front of a 426 00:22:25,516 --> 00:22:28,676 Speaker 2: green thing okay, and I have this app by naturalist. 427 00:22:29,196 --> 00:22:34,036 Speaker 2: Let's identify it. It's called viburnum. The catbird likes viburnum. 428 00:22:34,276 --> 00:22:38,116 Speaker 2: So I've just kind of located myself somewhere with something. 429 00:22:38,876 --> 00:22:45,156 Speaker 2: Keep walking, keep walking, open, focused, loose and feel the 430 00:22:45,196 --> 00:22:48,876 Speaker 2: myopia coming in. Loosen up, in and out, in and out, 431 00:22:48,876 --> 00:22:55,596 Speaker 2: in and out cat bird. That whole thing probably only 432 00:22:55,596 --> 00:22:58,596 Speaker 2: took fifteen minutes. I was exhausted by the end. Once 433 00:22:58,636 --> 00:23:01,556 Speaker 2: I had the catbird, I was like, I'm done. I 434 00:23:01,596 --> 00:23:04,636 Speaker 2: felt like I'd benched fifty pounds and I should get 435 00:23:04,636 --> 00:23:07,876 Speaker 2: a break. That de feats the whole thing. Why not 436 00:23:07,956 --> 00:23:10,156 Speaker 2: stay now with the cat bird? Seeing that I don't 437 00:23:10,156 --> 00:23:10,996 Speaker 2: know it at all. 438 00:23:10,996 --> 00:23:13,116 Speaker 1: And it's fleeting too, which is something at least in 439 00:23:13,156 --> 00:23:15,356 Speaker 1: my limited experience with birds that I had to come 440 00:23:15,356 --> 00:23:17,956 Speaker 1: to terms with. Right you hear this call and for me, 441 00:23:18,036 --> 00:23:19,636 Speaker 1: I'm like ready to pull out some app and trying 442 00:23:19,636 --> 00:23:22,276 Speaker 1: to figure it out, and then it's just like it's gone. 443 00:23:22,796 --> 00:23:25,036 Speaker 1: You know that the good things are fleeting, but also 444 00:23:25,076 --> 00:23:27,716 Speaker 1: it seems like birding has taught you that the discomfort 445 00:23:27,956 --> 00:23:30,396 Speaker 1: the bad things are fleeting too. Right. You know, you 446 00:23:30,436 --> 00:23:32,756 Speaker 1: could be kind of restless and kind of not wanting 447 00:23:32,796 --> 00:23:34,316 Speaker 1: to do it as you were in Bryant Park, and 448 00:23:34,356 --> 00:23:36,356 Speaker 1: then there's a way to sort of soften too. It 449 00:23:36,436 --> 00:23:38,596 Speaker 1: teaches us like both the good and bad parts aren't 450 00:23:38,596 --> 00:23:39,516 Speaker 1: going to be there forever. 451 00:23:39,916 --> 00:23:42,436 Speaker 2: That's right, and we need those experiences to see, oh 452 00:23:42,476 --> 00:23:45,156 Speaker 2: this past because it passed fifty other times. 453 00:23:45,876 --> 00:23:48,076 Speaker 1: After the break, I'll talk more wilily about some of 454 00:23:48,076 --> 00:23:51,116 Speaker 1: the surprising benefits of bird watching, and I'll share where 455 00:23:51,156 --> 00:23:54,156 Speaker 1: I'm at in my own birding journey. The happiness lab 456 00:23:54,196 --> 00:24:04,076 Speaker 1: will be right back. And a society that rewards hustling 457 00:24:04,076 --> 00:24:06,396 Speaker 1: to the point of exhaustion, it can often feel like 458 00:24:06,476 --> 00:24:10,196 Speaker 1: any time not spent being productive is time wing. I 459 00:24:10,316 --> 00:24:12,756 Speaker 1: fall into this trap a lot. I know all the 460 00:24:12,756 --> 00:24:14,996 Speaker 1: research showing that setting boundaries when it comes to work 461 00:24:15,116 --> 00:24:17,356 Speaker 1: is crucial for your well being, but it can be 462 00:24:17,396 --> 00:24:20,076 Speaker 1: hard to do. Of course, it's important to make time 463 00:24:20,116 --> 00:24:22,836 Speaker 1: to rest and move your body, but it's also just 464 00:24:22,916 --> 00:24:25,876 Speaker 1: as essential to spend time doing things for no other 465 00:24:25,916 --> 00:24:29,476 Speaker 1: reason than the simple fact that you enjoy them. Psychologists 466 00:24:29,516 --> 00:24:33,316 Speaker 1: have a word for these kinds of activities atlic as 467 00:24:33,356 --> 00:24:36,996 Speaker 1: in not telic, not reward driven. Think things like listening 468 00:24:37,036 --> 00:24:41,156 Speaker 1: to music, doodling, or reading for pleasure. Atilic activities not 469 00:24:41,196 --> 00:24:43,756 Speaker 1: only help us manage stress, they can also bring a 470 00:24:43,796 --> 00:24:46,196 Speaker 1: sense of purpose and meaning, which are of course key 471 00:24:46,356 --> 00:24:49,636 Speaker 1: ingredients in improving our well being long term. After an 472 00:24:49,636 --> 00:24:52,476 Speaker 1: author Lily Taylor finds that bird watching is one of 473 00:24:52,556 --> 00:24:55,116 Speaker 1: the most beautifully atilic activities around. 474 00:24:55,596 --> 00:24:58,476 Speaker 2: It is an activity that is just for the sake 475 00:24:58,516 --> 00:25:01,956 Speaker 2: of And so birding is also a help because I 476 00:25:01,996 --> 00:25:05,316 Speaker 2: do like lists, I like results. I don't have to 477 00:25:05,356 --> 00:25:07,796 Speaker 2: have a goal with birding. I can just enjoy it 478 00:25:07,876 --> 00:25:10,116 Speaker 2: for the sake of and I don't have to break 479 00:25:10,156 --> 00:25:12,356 Speaker 2: anything home to show for it. 480 00:25:12,716 --> 00:25:14,796 Speaker 1: And I think the more we allow ourselves to not 481 00:25:14,836 --> 00:25:17,236 Speaker 1: be doing things for these extrinsic rewards, like we get 482 00:25:17,236 --> 00:25:19,756 Speaker 1: out of hustle culture, we're not ticking stuff off the list. 483 00:25:19,996 --> 00:25:22,036 Speaker 1: We can do stuff just to be right. We can 484 00:25:22,116 --> 00:25:24,476 Speaker 1: kind of just get rewarded from what's happening in the world. 485 00:25:24,556 --> 00:25:26,436 Speaker 1: Right It doesn't have to be, you know, on our 486 00:25:26,476 --> 00:25:28,996 Speaker 1: LinkedIn profile to kind of matter. But we can sometimes 487 00:25:29,036 --> 00:25:30,716 Speaker 1: get in the bode where that's what it feels like. 488 00:25:30,756 --> 00:25:32,356 Speaker 1: We just have to be working all the time. 489 00:25:32,476 --> 00:25:33,196 Speaker 2: It's allowed. 490 00:25:33,356 --> 00:25:35,796 Speaker 1: We are allowed it, and this is just your way 491 00:25:35,876 --> 00:25:38,716 Speaker 1: to have something that's enjoyable that's not like work. It's 492 00:25:38,756 --> 00:25:39,596 Speaker 1: just not another thing. 493 00:25:39,996 --> 00:25:41,476 Speaker 2: Are you at Yale? 494 00:25:41,556 --> 00:25:44,476 Speaker 1: I am at ya? Yeah, right, because Rick Prum is there? 495 00:25:44,676 --> 00:25:46,916 Speaker 1: Rick Prum, Yeah, who's my colleague at Yell. He has 496 00:25:46,916 --> 00:25:49,596 Speaker 1: this wonderful book called The Evolution of Beauty. But where 497 00:25:49,596 --> 00:25:51,116 Speaker 1: can kind of just argue is that, like we can 498 00:25:51,196 --> 00:25:54,396 Speaker 1: understand so much about even human beauty from understanding birds 499 00:25:54,396 --> 00:25:56,676 Speaker 1: and how they evolve so many colors and shapes and 500 00:25:56,716 --> 00:25:57,396 Speaker 1: things like that. 501 00:25:57,676 --> 00:26:00,196 Speaker 2: He helped me realize I can just love it for 502 00:26:00,276 --> 00:26:01,796 Speaker 2: the beauty. I don't have to have a reason. It 503 00:26:01,836 --> 00:26:02,876 Speaker 2: can just be beautiful. 504 00:26:03,156 --> 00:26:05,716 Speaker 1: Another benefit that I didn't expect to see in your book, 505 00:26:05,756 --> 00:26:07,556 Speaker 1: but makes a lot of sense once you get into it, 506 00:26:07,596 --> 00:26:09,636 Speaker 1: is that birds have been a path for you towards 507 00:26:09,716 --> 00:26:12,996 Speaker 1: social connection. Pretty Much every available study onhappy people suggest 508 00:26:13,036 --> 00:26:15,316 Speaker 1: that happy people are more social. And maybe this was 509 00:26:15,436 --> 00:26:18,556 Speaker 1: my stereotype, but I didn't really associate birders with being 510 00:26:18,676 --> 00:26:20,876 Speaker 1: very social. I kind of thought it was like a solo, 511 00:26:21,076 --> 00:26:23,636 Speaker 1: kind of by yourself in the woods activity. But you 512 00:26:23,716 --> 00:26:26,516 Speaker 1: told all these beautiful stories of how birds helped you connect. 513 00:26:26,556 --> 00:26:28,196 Speaker 1: I think my favorite one was a story of a 514 00:26:28,236 --> 00:26:31,036 Speaker 1: downey woodpecker that you ran into in Brooklyn. Can you 515 00:26:31,076 --> 00:26:32,556 Speaker 1: share that story with my listeners? 516 00:26:33,076 --> 00:26:37,476 Speaker 2: Sure. I was looking up at something in Brooklyn and 517 00:26:38,316 --> 00:26:43,036 Speaker 2: someone stopped, which is what usually happens, and he asked 518 00:26:43,036 --> 00:26:45,236 Speaker 2: what I was looking at. I told her I was 519 00:26:45,236 --> 00:26:48,196 Speaker 2: looking at a downy woodpecker. She didn't know what a 520 00:26:48,196 --> 00:26:52,516 Speaker 2: woodpecker was. I told her what it was, and we 521 00:26:52,636 --> 00:26:56,316 Speaker 2: shared a moment together, and the woodpecker flew from a 522 00:26:56,356 --> 00:27:01,516 Speaker 2: tree right in front of us to this hanging basket 523 00:27:01,556 --> 00:27:05,756 Speaker 2: of suet, which is fat. Birds need fat in the winter. 524 00:27:06,316 --> 00:27:08,956 Speaker 2: So the brownstone we were in front of was also 525 00:27:09,116 --> 00:27:11,836 Speaker 2: connected to something because they were putting sue it out 526 00:27:11,876 --> 00:27:16,156 Speaker 2: for birds. So if you add some stuff to an 527 00:27:16,236 --> 00:27:21,356 Speaker 2: environment like food and shelter, not only will animals come, 528 00:27:21,356 --> 00:27:25,756 Speaker 2: but people will come to You had people who were 529 00:27:26,196 --> 00:27:33,036 Speaker 2: caring and sharing something a little moment and that was enough. Yeah. 530 00:27:33,076 --> 00:27:35,156 Speaker 1: I feel like, especially in a city where a lot 531 00:27:35,196 --> 00:27:37,396 Speaker 1: of people think like, well, nobody's paying attention to each other. 532 00:27:37,636 --> 00:27:40,196 Speaker 1: Everybody's just anonymous strangers on the street. That was like 533 00:27:40,236 --> 00:27:42,516 Speaker 1: your one moment to feel connected with a neighbor and 534 00:27:42,516 --> 00:27:44,916 Speaker 1: to teacher something new. That's right, And so it seems 535 00:27:44,956 --> 00:27:47,636 Speaker 1: like there are many many benefits of bird watching. If 536 00:27:47,716 --> 00:27:50,956 Speaker 1: someone is listening to this and it was like it's 537 00:27:50,956 --> 00:27:53,756 Speaker 1: for me, how should I get started? What's your advice 538 00:27:53,836 --> 00:27:55,396 Speaker 1: to a birding newbie. 539 00:27:55,516 --> 00:27:58,596 Speaker 2: Well, I would just say just step outside and see 540 00:27:58,636 --> 00:28:02,036 Speaker 2: what's around, see what's in your neighborhood, and just maybe 541 00:28:02,076 --> 00:28:05,036 Speaker 2: stay in one place for a few minutes and see 542 00:28:05,036 --> 00:28:08,116 Speaker 2: if anything happens. And if you hear something, maybe walk 543 00:28:08,156 --> 00:28:10,876 Speaker 2: towards it and just see if you can see it 544 00:28:11,516 --> 00:28:14,996 Speaker 2: and if you can follow it, just for a couple 545 00:28:14,996 --> 00:28:17,356 Speaker 2: of extra minutes. It's like when you're at the gym 546 00:28:17,396 --> 00:28:18,956 Speaker 2: and when you start to get tired and you're like, 547 00:28:18,996 --> 00:28:21,076 Speaker 2: I want to get off this thing. You just stay 548 00:28:21,076 --> 00:28:23,956 Speaker 2: on that extra minute see what happens. And then I 549 00:28:23,956 --> 00:28:26,156 Speaker 2: would say, just like look out your window a lot 550 00:28:26,476 --> 00:28:28,556 Speaker 2: and see who's there. It's like, get to know your neighbors. 551 00:28:28,596 --> 00:28:31,436 Speaker 2: Put a feeder out. If you start to like what's 552 00:28:31,476 --> 00:28:33,236 Speaker 2: happening and you start to like, oh my god, I 553 00:28:33,236 --> 00:28:36,196 Speaker 2: saw that bird twice now and it's like cool. Then 554 00:28:36,516 --> 00:28:39,436 Speaker 2: get the Merlin app. It's the Shazam for birds, and 555 00:28:39,476 --> 00:28:42,036 Speaker 2: it just shows you there's so much more happening than 556 00:28:42,076 --> 00:28:45,796 Speaker 2: you even realize. So that's always fun. It's like kind 557 00:28:45,836 --> 00:28:48,276 Speaker 2: of like Christmas presents or something all around. 558 00:28:48,516 --> 00:28:50,236 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm so glad you brought that up because I 559 00:28:50,316 --> 00:28:51,516 Speaker 1: have the Marlin app, but I don't use it in 560 00:28:51,516 --> 00:28:53,436 Speaker 1: nearly enough. And so I was going on a hike 561 00:28:53,556 --> 00:28:55,756 Speaker 1: just kind of for exercise, and inspired by your book, 562 00:28:55,756 --> 00:28:57,276 Speaker 1: I was like, oh yeah, I should take out the 563 00:28:57,316 --> 00:28:59,036 Speaker 1: Merlin app and see what I hear. And that caused 564 00:28:59,076 --> 00:29:00,516 Speaker 1: me to start listening, and so I was like, oh wait, 565 00:29:00,516 --> 00:29:02,276 Speaker 1: there is some bird chatter going on. What is it? 566 00:29:02,316 --> 00:29:04,116 Speaker 1: And I pulled out the app and it was like 567 00:29:04,236 --> 00:29:06,636 Speaker 1: in my brain, it was like a bird, but it 568 00:29:06,756 --> 00:29:08,836 Speaker 1: was like a few weeks ago, we're having this conversation. 569 00:29:08,876 --> 00:29:10,876 Speaker 1: In me was like the big migration, and it was 570 00:29:10,916 --> 00:29:12,756 Speaker 1: just like a ton of good stuff I pulled out. 571 00:29:12,796 --> 00:29:19,596 Speaker 1: I had great crested flycatcher, at ovenbird, puffed tip mouse, 572 00:29:21,276 --> 00:29:26,316 Speaker 1: even had worm eating warbler. But that was like magic. 573 00:29:26,356 --> 00:29:28,676 Speaker 1: It was like, oh my gosh, there's this like incredibly 574 00:29:28,756 --> 00:29:31,036 Speaker 1: rich story that's happening. I don't know, I just felt 575 00:29:31,076 --> 00:29:33,316 Speaker 1: less alone when I started to realize how many other 576 00:29:33,356 --> 00:29:34,036 Speaker 1: birds were there. 577 00:29:34,596 --> 00:29:36,516 Speaker 2: You just summed up the whole thing. I mean that 578 00:29:36,636 --> 00:29:38,996 Speaker 2: to me is the metaphor. It's like, I seem to 579 00:29:38,996 --> 00:29:43,156 Speaker 2: think there's less around, less meaning less stuff than there is. 580 00:29:43,716 --> 00:29:46,636 Speaker 2: And what that Merlin app does is it confirms there's 581 00:29:46,676 --> 00:29:49,116 Speaker 2: a lot going on and a lot to look forward to, 582 00:29:49,156 --> 00:29:51,676 Speaker 2: and a lot to be open to, more than I 583 00:29:51,756 --> 00:29:54,876 Speaker 2: seemed to think. I seemed to underestimate life out there. 584 00:29:55,276 --> 00:29:57,076 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is a way to just feel connected 585 00:29:57,076 --> 00:29:59,316 Speaker 1: to more than you honestly have a thought possible. 586 00:29:59,516 --> 00:30:01,436 Speaker 2: And I love that. It's like an outside in. It's 587 00:30:01,476 --> 00:30:05,556 Speaker 2: fine using an outside thing to activate the hearing. It's 588 00:30:05,556 --> 00:30:07,476 Speaker 2: like the Merlin was like, I'll start it off. 589 00:30:07,276 --> 00:30:09,556 Speaker 1: For you, because then I saw like ten minutes walking 590 00:30:09,556 --> 00:30:11,436 Speaker 1: arount and trying to find them and looking up in 591 00:30:11,476 --> 00:30:14,476 Speaker 1: the tree. It got me to use the senses that 592 00:30:14,516 --> 00:30:16,596 Speaker 1: I have to notice this interesting stuff, which is. 593 00:30:16,596 --> 00:30:19,916 Speaker 2: What technology is fantastic. If you really start to love it, 594 00:30:20,316 --> 00:30:23,756 Speaker 2: get a pair of binoculars. And then also the siply 595 00:30:23,836 --> 00:30:29,036 Speaker 2: guide simply is a wonderful ornithologist who draws birds and 596 00:30:29,076 --> 00:30:31,556 Speaker 2: he knows behavior, so you can learn more about the 597 00:30:31,596 --> 00:30:34,956 Speaker 2: bird and how to identify them and how they behave. 598 00:30:34,916 --> 00:30:36,716 Speaker 1: I love you can just see your joy on your 599 00:30:36,716 --> 00:30:39,596 Speaker 1: face when you talk about these, making me my face 600 00:30:39,636 --> 00:30:42,196 Speaker 1: is hurting from smiling so much. I hope hearing about 601 00:30:42,276 --> 00:30:45,556 Speaker 1: Lily's creative coping strategy has inspired you to get out 602 00:30:45,596 --> 00:30:48,076 Speaker 1: and experience the wonder of birds. But even if you're 603 00:30:48,116 --> 00:30:51,276 Speaker 1: not quite ready to grab binoculars or to start tracking 604 00:30:51,396 --> 00:30:54,156 Speaker 1: worm eating warblers, there's still a lot of great coping 605 00:30:54,156 --> 00:30:57,596 Speaker 1: strategies to take away from Lily's story. First off, if 606 00:30:57,596 --> 00:31:00,156 Speaker 1: you find yourself feeling exhausted and teetering on the edge 607 00:31:00,196 --> 00:31:02,476 Speaker 1: of burnout, that's a sign that you need to seek 608 00:31:02,516 --> 00:31:06,156 Speaker 1: out a quiet space to reconnect with yourself. Second, look 609 00:31:06,196 --> 00:31:09,356 Speaker 1: for moments of awe, especially in the natural world. That 610 00:31:09,396 --> 00:31:11,716 Speaker 1: can be the sound or site of an unexpected bird, 611 00:31:12,076 --> 00:31:14,276 Speaker 1: but it can also be other things of beauty too. 612 00:31:14,916 --> 00:31:17,676 Speaker 1: There's transcendence all around you if you just take some 613 00:31:17,756 --> 00:31:22,276 Speaker 1: time to look. Next up, practice mindfulness by intentionally noticing 614 00:31:22,396 --> 00:31:25,676 Speaker 1: what's new in your surroundings, and give yourself permission to 615 00:31:25,756 --> 00:31:28,716 Speaker 1: take a break from your goal oriented mindset and embrace 616 00:31:28,836 --> 00:31:32,396 Speaker 1: at like activities. And finally, if you need a good laugh, 617 00:31:32,676 --> 00:31:35,756 Speaker 1: fire up an old DVD copy of Say Anything and 618 00:31:35,876 --> 00:31:40,236 Speaker 1: watch Lily's hilariously deadpan performance of the awkward breakup anthem 619 00:31:40,476 --> 00:31:44,276 Speaker 1: Joe Lies. And that final suggestion is a nice transition 620 00:31:44,316 --> 00:31:47,156 Speaker 1: to the creative coping strategy we'll be exploring next week, 621 00:31:47,636 --> 00:31:50,316 Speaker 1: because when the Happiness Lab returns, we'll be learning about 622 00:31:50,316 --> 00:31:54,236 Speaker 1: the stress relieving power of music. Wilmina Cellis, who found 623 00:31:54,276 --> 00:31:57,396 Speaker 1: solace in his instrument both for dealing with everyday stresses 624 00:31:57,836 --> 00:32:01,116 Speaker 1: and for handling a particularly difficult time that threatened to 625 00:32:01,236 --> 00:32:05,956 Speaker 1: change his identity forever. My fatigue, It's like I'm wearing 626 00:32:06,316 --> 00:32:10,996 Speaker 1: a coat of heavy metal or armor underneath my skin. 627 00:32:11,516 --> 00:32:13,916 Speaker 1: All that next time on a Happiness Lab with me, 628 00:32:14,196 --> 00:32:15,316 Speaker 1: Doctor Laurie Santo's