WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: Ghost Hunting Tech 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to Text Stuff, a production from my Heart Radio. 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:27.240 M Hey there, and welcome to text Stuff, a podcast 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:32.400 from my Heart Radio. I am your host, Drack Cool, 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:41.840 Jonathan Strickland, and I love all things deck. I I'm sorry, 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.040 I know that was that was even more cringe worthy 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:50.000 than my quizter appearances on Ridiculous History. Yeah, I I 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:53.560 apologize that you all had to listen to that. Anyway, 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.400 It's time for a text Stuff classic. And this one 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:02.000 actually comes as a recommend a from carry on Twitter, 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:06.040 who said that I should really revisit one that I 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:09.959 did way back in twenty ten. See back on February first, 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:16.279 two thousand ten, we published an episode titled ghost Hunting Technology. 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:20.720 Chris Pallette, my original co host, and I walked through 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:25.480 the various gadgets and technologies used by ghost hunters, and 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:29.160 we explained what that technology actually is foreign and how 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:31.920 it works and what it's supposed to do. And I 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:35.959 talked a lot about how the use of such technology 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:38.679 is misguided when it comes to, you know, putting it 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:41.640 towards ghost hunting, and that it's based on faulty reasoning, 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:44.480 and the big thing is that it really boils down 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:49.360 to ghost hunters operating as if ghosts are already a 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:54.000 known fact, like that they four fact exist, and then 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:59.160 they explain how tech behaving in some particular way supports 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.600 that fact and counts as evidence of their being a ghost. 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:07.440 But we haven't established that ghosts are a fact, so 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.520 you can't point at anything and say it's evidence that 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.880 a ghost exists. You've got to prove the ghost exists first, 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:18.840 and then through lots of different, you know, experiments determine 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:21.840 what elements point to whether or not a ghost is present. 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:27.040 You can't just say that light is flickering, therefore ghost. 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:32.240 That's not how science works. Anyway, since we're on all 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:36.200 Hallow's eve Eve, I thought it would be good to 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.840 run this as a classic episode, and you can hear 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.840 how ten years ago I argued for critical thinking. And 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.240 when the classic episode is over, I'm gonna have a 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:48.480 few more things to say about the topic of ghosts. 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:52.720 So please stick around because there's more to come. Anyway, 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:56.720 enjoy this classic episode. I don't know that we have 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:58.840 a ghost of a chance of getting through this without 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.720 you losing it, but we should try. I ain't afraid 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:06.560 of no ghost, so you may have already guessed what 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:08.600 our topic is, but it comes to us courtesy of 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:14.920 a little listener mail. List listener mail comes from Will 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:17.560 from Austin, Texas, and he says, Hi, guys, I just 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.440 recently started subscribing to the podcast and always have it 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.000 playing in my car to and from work. I am 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.080 in the I T field, and even though I feel 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:27.400 like I have a somewhat firm grasp on some of 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:29.960 the concepts that are discussed, it is always nice to 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:33.000 have something explained in a visual manner. There's which is 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.800 odd for an audio podcast, right you know that maybe 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.360 he senses that there's something I am curious about which 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:41.520 seems to be all the craze right now, and that 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:44.320 is all of the different ghost hunting shows on TV 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:47.040 right now. I'm a sucker for them myself and end 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:49.920 up watching them somewhat intrigued with the technology that they use, 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.720 the things they catch within the infrared spectrum, the e 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:55.880 m F meters and e m F pumps that they 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:59.520 used to attract entities, and the digital recorders used to 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:03.680 capture what is called e v P electronic voice phenomenon. 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:06.880 From what I understand, there's nothing hard and fast that 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:10.000 says E m F detectors are legitimate for detecting levels 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:12.720 of magnetic activity. So it would be really nice to 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:14.880 hear y'all talk a bit about the technology used in 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:18.280 TV shows like Ghost Hunters, Ghost Labs, Ghost Adventures, Paranormal State. 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:23.200 Thanks will Well, I think we're going to have a 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:28.479 spirited discussion. Yes, I'm going to rattle my chains, you know. 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:31.120 I will say that that my wife is a fan 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:33.240 of a lot of these shows, um, and I have 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:35.960 only watched bits and pieces of them, so I am 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.720 less familiar with them. But um, one of the things 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.320 that I found out when I started getting into this 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:44.640 is that, uh, they're not using a whole lot of 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:49.920 high tech gadgetry in order to investigate the paranormal and 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.960 a lot of stuff off the shelf. What little they're using, 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:56.400 they're using incorrectly. Okay, I'm going to preface this by 0:04:56.440 --> 0:05:01.239 saying I'm going to preface this by saying I am 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:03.960 a skeptic. And when I say skeptic, I don't mean 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:09.240 someone who automatically denies whether or not something exists. When 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.440 I'm saying skeptic, I'm talking about a person who requires 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.359 there to be some sort of empirical evidence that something 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:18.320 exists before I just go ahead and accept it. And 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:20.840 as far as ghost hunting goes, there is such an 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:24.760 enormous lack of empirical evidence that any of this is 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:29.200 doing anything that I find the whole industry that has 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:33.680 sprung up around ghost hunting to be infuriating. And I 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.200 really do mean that, because, Okay, folks, if you want 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:41.240 to type in e m F detector into any search engine, 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:45.200 I guarantee you that at least one, if not several, 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:48.240 of the main results that pop up first, are going 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.719 to be about ghost hunting equipment. And here's the thing. 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:56.719 They don't detect ghosts. I mean, there's no proof that 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:59.640 they detect ghosts. There's no proof that ghosts even affect 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:01.760 elector of magnetic fields, which is what e m F 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:05.239 detectors and meters are designed to detect. There's no proof 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:08.719 that a ghost exists number one. And then there's no 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:12.320 proof that if they do exist, that they affect these fields. 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.279 So why would using this tool be an indication that 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:19.920 there is a ghost present? Well, that's uh, that's sort 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:23.800 of the whole thing is that I mean, is that 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:29.240 people are using these people are using these devices um 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:32.800 in hopes of finding something, and in many cases it's 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:38.039 either in disproving the existence of a an entity in 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.360 the room or proving it. I mean it's not it's not. Hey, 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.120 let's stick a tape recorder in the room for an hour. 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:47.080 And it drives me nuts because why would this device, 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:51.279 over any other be a good indicator that there is 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:54.159 a presence in the room. That's what. That is the 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:58.000 point where I'm already having my first problem with the 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.200 whole ghost hunting thing is that it's like you arbitrarily 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:05.200 assigned ghosts this ability to do something based upon I 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:08.599 don't know what, and that somehow watching a little needle 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.680 move indicates that there must be something here. You can 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.640 just as easily say, hey, let's take this metal detector 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:16.680 and will run it over the ground and every time 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.880 it beats, that's where a ghost is. Because I mean, 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.600 there's you just you're making up the rules as you 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:25.320 go along. You can't do that. What you have to 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.000 do first is established that there is such a thing 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:31.320 as a ghost, and then determine whether or not a 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.680 ghost is able to affect an electromagnetic field, Because then 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.920 you could say, okay, this tool will detect this thing. 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:42.000 That's the way science works. People. You don't sit there 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:44.720 and assume something is true and then try and find 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.360 a way to justify it. Here's how it works. You 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:51.360 observe some sort of phenomena, You try and create an 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:55.640 explanation for that phenomena. You then test your explanation. If 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:59.920 your explanation holds after multiple tests done by multiple people 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.880 under multiple situations, and it still holds true, then you 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:07.240 can say you know something. You can't just say, hey, 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:11.160 this needle move, therefore there's a dead person in the room. What. No, 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:15.160 that's not how it works. I joked that we could 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:19.400 call this podcast how critical thinking works. Honestly, people, critical 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.880 thinking is so important. If you don't use critical thinking, 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.080 if you just swallow that the needle moved, therefore something 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.840 is in this room, then I don't know what to 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.600 tell you. Okay, well, let's uh, let me breathe, let's 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:35.679 back away from that from that edge. We're gonna have 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:37.080 to stay with this edge because we have to talk 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.360 about what E m F detectors actually do. Well, that's 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.800 the thing, I mean, that's what I'm saying. Let's opinion aside. 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:48.280 Let's talk about this stuff that actually works what opinion. Sorry, 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:51.000 I'm just well, that's but that's the thing, though, there 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:54.960 are other people who claim that they have heard and 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:59.240 seen things using this equipment. Countless I'm saying, and I 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.439 don't know I have. I have no doubts that there 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:04.400 I have no doubts that there are people out there 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:09.120 who truly believe that they have experienced something that is inexplicable, 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:12.280 just as I have absolutely no doubt that the things 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.880 they experienced were completely explicable because they did not have 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:21.240 the necessary facts or ways of determining those facts at 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:25.000 their disposal at the time. And also, these events tend 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:31.080 to become more um outlandish or or perhaps we should say, 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.680 more extravagant over time as we think back and we 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:39.320 tell stories over we tend to elaborate and and I'm 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:42.160 not even saying people are are fibbing or anything like that. 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:45.200 They could completely believe in what they're saying. There are 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:48.720 stories I've told where I've gone back and looked at something, 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:51.000 you know, like like a video of a performance I 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:53.760 was in and realized that the story I tell is 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.480 not matching up to reality. But in my mind, that's 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.520 exactly the way it happened. We all do this. It's 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:02.240 just in case I think what it's done is spawned 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:07.240 an entire industry. Well, you know, you're right that there 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.520 there is no empirical evidence. There's nothing in scientific journals 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.280 that indicates that any of these pieces of gear that 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:18.040 we're going to talk about has any ability to really 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:21.920 find a ghost. There's nothing in any scientific journals about 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.199 it that I was able to find in my research. Well, 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:26.320 but the first step, of of course, is the fact 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:29.000 that there's no scientific evidence for a ghost. So you 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:32.240 can't be device could find something. That wouldn't be the point. 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.520 But I looked, Um, I'm glad you did. But and 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.080 you know what I found out. What's that some one 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:41.040 of the culprits behind the idea of using electronics to 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:45.480 try to find spirits or you know, some kind of 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:51.040 paranormal activity Thomas Edison. He actually said that, Um, and 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:52.839 I didn't get the quote. I should have gotten the quote. 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:55.280 But basically he said that he believed that there was 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.440 a way to create an electronic instrument that if a 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:03.280 ghost existed, would be that the instrument would be capable 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:05.960 of detecting it, some sort of ghost detector to lice. Now, 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:07.920 he he never built anything like that, and he never 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.240 That doesn't necessarily mean that he believed in ghosts, because 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.440 actually he said he didn't know whether or not they existed. 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:17.520 If they didn't exist, there should be a way to 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:19.800 detect them, is what he was saying. And of course 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:23.520 I actually saw quotes from him in a couple of places. Um, 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.120 but it's kind of funny to imagine that, you know, 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.440 I'm sure that that some people said, Okay, well, let's 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:30.960 try to build something that will detect a ghost. And 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:35.000 if you believe that a ghost, if it exists, is 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:40.520 creating some kind of field um magnetic or electrical, or 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.280 you know, giving off some kind of signature in another 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.040 plane that you cannot see, then you might try to 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:50.599 use things like infrared cameras or e m F detectors 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:55.200 or ion density detectors to try to find something that 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.480 would indicate why you feel cold when you walk in 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:00.160 this room. That just it seems so strange to me, 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.520 because you could just as easily say, you know, I 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.360 believe ghosts exist, but the only people who can detect 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:08.840 them are female, left handed redheads. I mean, that's just 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.360 as valid a point as saying ghosts must exist therefore 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:15.600 they give off some sort of electromagnetic field. I don't 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.920 want to haunt you with the threat of ads, but 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.600 it's time for us to take a quick break. I'm 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:38.120 sorry again. Well, this is one of those things that 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.000 that surprised me when I started doing the research was that, um, 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:42.839 the people who have been doing this for a while 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:46.320 basically take a plain old tape re quarter and a 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.360 camera and a notebook and they go in and they 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:52.800 sit down and they try to find, you know, see 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.520 if they see anything unusual. They take pictures, um and 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:57.920 try to make notes of anything they don't get. They 0:12:57.920 --> 0:12:59.640 don't buy a lot of fancy and there are plenty 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.400 of um who who do this in the hopes of 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:07.160 finding some sort of proof of of that there are 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:11.720 such things as ghosts, but who are also very intellectually honest, 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:16.520 and they they objectively look at each and every indicator 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.160 and determine whether or not there is a physical explanation 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.439 for it or not. And in those cases, I think 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.600 you'll find that most of those ghost hunters have so 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.160 far come up zero percent on the ghost and a 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:33.600 percent on some sort of physical explanation. Yeah, but that's 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.640 not again, let me make this clear. That's not to 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.880 say that ghosts do not exist. I can't say that. 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.040 There's no way that I could say that ghosts do 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:45.200 not exist and be honest with myself about it. I 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.280 don't know. What I can say is that there's no 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.520 empirical proof that they exist, and until there is, I 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.840 just don't believe in them. So, but let's talk about 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.800 let's talk about the what electromagnetic field meters do. What 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:03.040 you're designed to do. So these are devices that, as 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:07.839 you would imagine, detect fluctuations in electro magnetic fields, and 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.120 various things can create fluctuations. Usually it's some sort of 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.640 electronic device, because, as you've probably heard us talk about before, 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:19.560 electricity and magnetic fields are closely related. You can induce 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:24.200 one using the other. So these detectors, what they're designed 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:27.000 to do is to detect fluctuations in the field, mainly 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:31.640 for electrical purposes, and so you might detect a fluctuation 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:35.240 around electronics where you might have something that's not properly grounded. 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.440 It's really an indicator to tell you, Okay, wait, the 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:40.760 wiring in my house isn't as good as I thought 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:42.480 it was, and I need to have this looked at 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:48.520 or the shielding on this this power cable is clearly 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.240 not as strong as it needs to be, and that's 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:55.960 why I'm getting interference with my other electronics. That's what's 0:14:55.960 --> 0:15:01.080 meant for um it's and what what drives me nuts 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:05.000 as seeing companies that are selling e m F meters 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:10.160 which do have a legitimate useful application and they're saying 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.240 it's a great e m F meter slash ghost detector 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.840 then drives me crazy because again there's no proof that 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:22.360 it's actually detectually detecting bathing other than electromagnetic fluctuations that 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:26.080 could be explained by wiring or magnets or whatever. And 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:27.800 in fact, I saw one site and I'm not going 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:29.760 to name the site, but I saw one site they 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:33.560 had a frequently asked question section and said what reading 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:35.760 am I looking for on this gadget and said a 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.440 reading of two to seven milligos may be due to 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:42.360 spirit activity? How do you determine that? How did you 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.920 just say that, Oh, if you get a measure of 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:47.400 two to seven, that means there's a there's probably a 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:51.920 ghost there. This it's made up out of whole cloth 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:57.960 because there's no basis effect behind it. But at any rate. 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:04.160 E m F meters are legitimate tools for electricians, not 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:08.880 necessarily for ghost hunters. And maybe ghosts do affect e 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.960 m F fields somehow, or I shouldn't say e m 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:15.080 F fields because now I'm repeating part of the acronym. 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:16.960 But maybe they do have some sort of effect on 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:21.360 electromagnetic fields. But without any evidence to back that up, 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.560 we can't say for sure. And it turns out that 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:28.040 in most cases, in fact, I would have would probably 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.400 argue all cases whenever you use a meter and the 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:33.400 bill needle is starting to go around and find a 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:37.720 hot spot, there's probably just a wiring issue that would 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:43.200 explain it. Um. Yeah. Another another item that I saw 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:46.840 that it's more higher tech I guess, um, would be 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:49.880 the ion density counter. Yes, and that could be used 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:53.320 for a lot of things. Um. What it does is 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:55.080 it tries to detect the number of ions in a 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:57.560 cubic centimeter of air, and it can be used to 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:01.359 detect things like rate on um, whether there are combustible 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:07.720 vapors in the area, electrical arcs. Right, very legitimate uses, UM, 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:13.199 and this really uh plays into the whether you know, 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.159 into the skeptics view of whether or not this gadget 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:19.880 would be useful in detecting any paranormal activity. You would 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.399 have to assume first that whatever the paranormal activity is 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:24.840 gives off ions. Well, that's number one. I thought that 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:28.080 was assumed at this point. I'm I'm spelling it out, okay, 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.040 because there's here's here's why I spell that out. I 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:32.520 think there are a lot of people who use these 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.199 devices who have no idea what the device is truly 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:37.439 meant for, or at least was originally meant for. It's 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.479 a good point, and they don't understand what it really 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:43.840 means when they get a reading off these devices. So 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.880 I know it sounds like I'm going super basic on this, 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:49.760 but it's really to drive home the point of there 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.960 are legitimate uses for these devices that have nothing to 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:54.800 do with ghost hunting, and if you keep that in 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:58.080 mind before we move on to the whole ghost hunting thing, 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.480 it helps explain away a lot of the quote unquote 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:05.159 anomalies that you might find. I'm sorry, I interrupted you, 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.960 Please go on. Well, the thing about an ion detector 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.720 or eye in density detector is the air has to 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:15.280 be very very still around it, so it's a particularly 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:20.600 sensitive device and lots of things can affect the reading 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:23.640 on it. So like a draft, Yeah, a draft will 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:28.680 affect the reading. And you know if a draft comes in, um, 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.800 you know, you might say, oh wait, the needles moving. Yeah. 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:33.760 It turns out that a lot of ghost behavior can 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:37.840 be explained by poor zelent around the window. Sounds like 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:39.800 a joke, but it's really true. No, no, no, it's 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:43.080 but it's it's funny because you know, just apparently just 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:45.600 the slightest thing will um, you know, it really needs 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:47.760 to sit still and be left alone for a while 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.080 for it to be to give off an accurate reading 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:51.520 of whether or not there are a lot of ions 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.320 in the area, and of course the whole if there 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.320 were ghosts, would they give off ions? So there you are. 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.000 You're talking about devices that are very sensitive and can 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.840 easily give off false positives. That's another problem, and that 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.520 it's very easy to interpret a false positive as evidence 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:11.119 of some sort of supernatural activity, when in fact it 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.200 may just be that there was a breeze that blew 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.960 by and that's what affected the reading. Um. Knowing how 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:20.879 to use this equipment properly eliminates a lot of the 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:26.240 doubt around the equipment, all right, So what else. Um, well, 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:29.360 you know, then some people actually have been using Geiger counters, apparently, 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:34.880 because which is designed to detect radiation exactly. Again, there's 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:36.760 no I don't think a lot of them do. And 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:38.840 I haven't heard, but I saw that in a list 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:40.640 of equipment that you might here with you. I mean, 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.639 if if a ghost is able to affect electromagnetic fields, 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:47.440 why wouldn't a ghost be radioactive? I mean, why wouldn't 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:51.160 ghosts be able to create jello out of thin air? 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:54.080 I mean, we we could just go ahead and keep 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:57.800 on attributing stuff to go all day long. And you know, again, 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:02.560 my metal detector example earlier on its completely valid. I mean, 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:05.800 if you're gonna just grab whatever tools and use them 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:08.680 to this purpose, why not a metal detector. I mean, 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.280 we've we've seen motion sensors being used as a ghost 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.200 hunting material as well. Um, lots of stuff can trip 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:19.280 motion sensors, and I wonder if a ghost would trip 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:22.280 a motion sensor. I mean, I don't understand how the 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:25.600 I don't understand the set of rules that ghosts apparently obey. 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:28.040 That's part of the problem is that if they trip 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:31.840 motion sensors but not other things. I mean, how does 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:37.080 that work? I find it a kind of confusing night 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:42.320 vision goggles too. That's that's actually a question I have, 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:45.439 and maybe maybe somebody can answer that for me. And 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:48.280 you know, I don't want to sound like I'm making 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:50.680 fun of any of these shows, but if the ghosts 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:53.240 can be seen in the lighter that, I mean, why 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:56.159 are all these shows shot in the dark? Let me 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.240 explain that, because I really don't know. I have a 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:01.680 I have a good reason for the whole dark ghost thing. 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:05.480 That has everything to do with psychology, all right, and 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:09.480 actually there's some physiology here as well. So at night, 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:13.119 you're in you're you're at your house. At night, you 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:14.840 settle down to go to sleep, and you hear a 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:18.840 strange noise. At night, your house tends to be more 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:22.320 quiet than during the daytime. People have settled down, right, 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:26.560 everyone's in bed, so noises that would normally be covered 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:28.920 up by just the activity in your house during the 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:32.520 daytime are no longer covered up. Your your mind is 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:35.320 still alert. So you're laying in bed and you're thinking, 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:37.760 is there someone moving around the house. I just heard 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.320 a creaking noise I could just as easily be the 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:42.760 sound of your house. Settling. Uh, it could be the 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:46.200 sound of a board warping slowly, just boards do warp 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.040 over time. Sometimes they make noise. Sometimes it's like a 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:51.760 low moaning noise, which might sound familiar to people who 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:56.120 are familiar with the whole ghost mythology thing. Um, so 0:21:57.080 --> 0:21:59.600 that's part of it. Is just that that's the physiological 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:03.920 part of it. But psychologically it's that you know, Uh, nighttime, 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:07.120 that's when we're not concentrating on anything else. Our mind 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:11.000 can completely focus on these events. And humans like to 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:14.720 create patterns out of things. They like explanations for things. 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:18.000 And if we can't easily explain it by something that 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:20.919 we're really familiar with, it's very easy to jump on 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:26.120 the unfamiliar supernatural train and say, oh, well, this must 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:31.160 have been caused by this paranormal activity. So you'll see 0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:33.439 similar things, like if you look into the clouds and 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:38.000 you see a human face, it's because humans like patterns. 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:40.120 We find patterns and stuff all over the place. That's 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:44.439 actually called a paradolia is what's referred to as so 0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:47.560 paradolia is where we start seeing patterns and things. We 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:51.200 usually actually paradolia specifically about faces, being able to recognize 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:54.239 faces and things like the water. You know, you might 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:56.480 look into some muddy water and say, oh, my gosh, 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:58.200 I just saw a face looking back at me. That 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:00.919 wasn't a reflection, it was actually a face. Because we 0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:04.720 see these things, our mind creates a pattern and we 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:08.080 convince ourselves that we've seen something that wasn't necessarily there. Uh. 0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:10.600 The same sort of thing happens when we hear noises. 0:23:10.960 --> 0:23:14.520 We start to our brains start to to fill in gaps, 0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:18.640 and as a result, we add information there that wasn't 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:26.080 necessarily there. Originally, the spirits are quiet, but the advertisers aren't, 0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:36.440 So we're going to take another quick break. I would 0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:38.440 argue that this is also the case when you're talking 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:42.120