Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Dirk Durham and I have a guest here today.
Speaker 2: It's Corey Miller.
Speaker 1: We're in beautiful Big Sky of Montana at Total Archery Challenge.
Speaker 2: Corey's here with Darton Archery.
Speaker 1: And Black Eagleros have a booth set up and Cory's
Speaker 1: longtime friend someone. I appreciate his insight on archery and
Speaker 1: el cunning. He's an accomplished l hunter. Welcome Corey.
Speaker 3: Hey, thanks, thanks Derek.
Speaker 2: I doing really good, really good. What's your job title
Speaker 2: at SO?
Speaker 4: I'm the regional sales manager out West. So basically I
Speaker 4: cover Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. So travel around
Speaker 4: all the beautiful states. I was born and raised in Oregon,
Speaker 4: had a shop in Oregon, lived a majority of my life,
Speaker 4: I guess in Washington, right on the border.
Speaker 2: And then what was the name of your shop? Triple
Speaker 2: X R Trey.
Speaker 1: I bet a, but a lot of our listeners will
Speaker 1: probably recognize your shop. Yeah, probably recognize you. You've been
Speaker 1: around the business.
Speaker 2: For a while. I'm old yah. Yeah.
Speaker 4: And then so we moved to sold the business and
Speaker 4: moved to Montana. Couldn't be happier on that. Just blessed
Speaker 4: to live in a great state. And yeah, a lot
Speaker 4: better elk, environment, people, environment, everything, beauty weather.
Speaker 1: I just love it out here. Yeah, I love Montana.
Speaker 1: How many years you been out cutting?
Speaker 3: Uh, thirty? I think close to thirty. Yeah, yeah, I've
Speaker 3: kind of forgotten.
Speaker 1: You've probably seen a lot of different fads and and
Speaker 1: different things and get gadgets and gizmos and bows and
Speaker 1: arrows and stuff come long in the last thirty years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's changed and changed a lot.
Speaker 4: There's been some new stuff which is still old stuff
Speaker 4: that we did back then, but but now we just
Speaker 4: do it better. So you know, between fletchings, broadheads, arrow
Speaker 4: components to you know, the carbon makeup of an arrow
Speaker 4: and overall weight of an arrow, all those things have
Speaker 4: changed drastically, you know, in the last to me, in
Speaker 4: the last really probably ten years, is really starting to
Speaker 4: change and change a lot.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I remember when I was a kid, I
Speaker 1: didn't even have a compound bow at the time. I
Speaker 1: was still shooting like a crappy little re curve. And
Speaker 1: one of my neighbor kids, his dad was big into
Speaker 1: archery and they had some kind of.
Speaker 2: Were they graphite arrows?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Were they were more fiberglass.
Speaker 2: They were fiberglass.
Speaker 1: They were weird looking, yeah, and I was like, whoa,
Speaker 1: those are wow, those are cool? You know, I had
Speaker 1: my old XX seventy five's you know, or game probably
Speaker 1: a game getter at that point, you know, my one arrow.
Speaker 3: I remember when like carbon first came out and everybody's like, oh,
Speaker 3: they're dangerous. You know, if you shoot an animal, you're
Speaker 3: gonna want to cut like eight inches around the meat
Speaker 3: because there's gonna be carbon splinters exploded all through the meat.
Speaker 3: And so yeah, nobody even thinks about it.
Speaker 4: Anymore now, and arrow brakes if it does break inside
Speaker 4: of an animal, and it's not a big deal, but
Speaker 4: you know it's usually so bloodshot.
Speaker 2: Nobody's eating that hamburger anyway, right right, Yeah, you just
Speaker 2: cut that out anyway.
Speaker 4: With the with the devastation that the broadheads are doing
Speaker 4: to them, that's pretty well a big hole already.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, So what's your favorite mode of operation
Speaker 1: when you go l hutting? Are you a day tripper,
Speaker 1: you a backpack hunter? Like back hunter?
Speaker 2: What are you like both? What do you do?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: So, I mean like when I first started hunting, it was,
Speaker 4: you know, pull a camper and had elk camp with you.
Speaker 3: I didn't know anything other than.
Speaker 4: Like hunting camps where everybody you know sat around, and
Speaker 4: it was more of a camping trip slash hunting. I
Speaker 4: didn't know anything about calling. I remember I sounded good
Speaker 4: calling and stuff, but I didn't know, like why am
Speaker 4: I doing what I'm doing and when should I do it?
Speaker 4: And so then I instantly thought I sucked, and so
Speaker 4: that I kind of quit calling because I'd be out
Speaker 4: in the middle of the open, I'd be looking at
Speaker 4: elk and I'd scream at him and they all turn
Speaker 4: around and run away, and I'm like, God, I suck
Speaker 4: at this. And so it took me quite a few
Speaker 4: years and going to a lot of seminars and listening
Speaker 4: to other people's tactics and getting confidence enough to try
Speaker 4: it again and understand it. And then I got reunited
Speaker 4: back to a childhood friend that all be my hunting partner,
Speaker 4: that we went to kindergarten together, we went to school,
Speaker 4: all our lives together, and got reintroduced with him, and
Speaker 4: he was really big into back country and I'd alas
Speaker 4: he wanted to, but I had no idea how to
Speaker 4: do it, and he kind of basically took me under
Speaker 4: his wing and we started backcountry hunting. And I think,
Speaker 4: you know, you've you've hunted with enough people different folks
Speaker 4: that I think finding a hunting partner is definitely harder
Speaker 4: than finding olk. Oh yeah, definitely, you know, and to
Speaker 4: be with somebody that you can be along with for
Speaker 4: twelve thirteen days and get along with them, and you know,
Speaker 4: we just we just gel really good. We understand exactly
Speaker 4: what our wants and needs are out of each other
Speaker 4: and out of a hunt, and we hunt primarily back
Speaker 4: country stuff. So but it's not you know, there's a
Speaker 4: lot of different versions of it. So our typicals, you know,
Speaker 4: two to three days into areas and I feel like
Speaker 4: two to three days we should kill something or we
Speaker 4: need to move, and if it's good and we still
Speaker 4: haven't connected, when then we're usually making that two days
Speaker 4: or a trip out and grabbing enough more gear of
Speaker 4: food for two to three more days.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 4: You know, I don't want to be anchored down. I've
Speaker 4: never wanted to put up a wall tent. I want
Speaker 4: to be as much mobile as possible. So that's kind
Speaker 4: of our version of a back country hunts. You know,
Speaker 4: it's you know, anywhere from two miles in to eight
Speaker 4: miles in. We're we're pretty realistic. We're getting old. We're
Speaker 4: both fifty five years old. The hills are getting steeper
Speaker 4: every year, so it's it's tough to hunt that way,
Speaker 4: but I enjoy it.
Speaker 1: What do you do in the off season to keep
Speaker 1: in shape? You like to do a lot of trail running, right.
Speaker 3: Do a lot of trail running.
Speaker 4: And you know that helps too because I'm on the
Speaker 4: road a lot during the winters, you know, eating bad
Speaker 4: food and sleeping bad, you know, sleeping in hotels, never
Speaker 4: really getting a lot of sleep, and so trying to
Speaker 4: keep active. So and what's cool about trail running is,
Speaker 4: you know there's good apps like I do all trails,
Speaker 4: and so I can just type in, say I'm in
Speaker 4: Boise area, my trails nil near me, and there's all
Speaker 4: kinds of trails, biking trails and hiking trails, and so
Speaker 4: they'll just go out and do a two to five
Speaker 4: mile mountain trail run.
Speaker 3: And so that's kind of kind of fun.
Speaker 2: While you're on the road. Yeah, yeah, that'd be probably
Speaker 2: really helpful.
Speaker 4: It's kind of cool, like I got strawa so you
Speaker 4: can track what you know you're doing and your friends
Speaker 4: can see it and they're like, man, this is this
Speaker 4: guy's running in Bend, Oregon, and then he's over in Boise,
Speaker 4: Idaho running, and he's he's down in Wyoming running. What's
Speaker 4: this guy do for work? He's always on vacation or
Speaker 4: something living. Yeah, so it's kind of neat to do
Speaker 4: that and it's fun. So, yeah, I do a little
Speaker 4: bit of trail running.
Speaker 3: I don't. There was a time there I kind of got.
Speaker 4: Into the gym thing and going to the gym and yeah,
Speaker 4: I like cardio.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, what do you do? Usually? I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't start until right now, here are the beginning
Speaker 1: of June. So I start in June. I start hiking
Speaker 1: the hills around the boys here. I live in the
Speaker 1: Boise area. There's a bunch of great trails in the
Speaker 1: Boise foothills. I mean, you want to hike, you want
Speaker 1: to bike, you want to run, whatever, There's no running
Speaker 1: for me. I'm I have some lower back issues where
Speaker 1: running just kills me. From my previous career back in
Speaker 1: the old days, back when I was a tire guy.
Speaker 1: But but that was part of your job.
Speaker 3: That was running.
Speaker 2: That was my job was to run every day on
Speaker 2: concrete for twelve hours a day.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 2: It was brilliant. You know, it's pretty good shape back
Speaker 2: from there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was pretty pretty good shape back then, except for
Speaker 1: all my aches and pains. And I felt like a
Speaker 1: truck run over a truck run over me every day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then on the weekends and my time off, it
Speaker 1: was it was tough. I feel I think I feel
Speaker 1: better now than I did in my thirties as far
Speaker 1: as aches and pains go. But I'm a little heavier too.
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit fatter. And so in June then
Speaker 1: I'm fifty. I just took fifty.
Speaker 4: So I'm fifty five and I don't know what fifty
Speaker 4: five is supposed to feel like, but it hurts.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And so I've been I've been really laxed.
Speaker 4: I've been you know, I run, I see, I feel
Speaker 4: like I stay in shape enough. But for some reason,
Speaker 4: it's just I hit a It's changed. And so now
Speaker 4: I'm happened to be more diet Yeah, differently than what
Speaker 4: it was before.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, inflammation comes from your diet big time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they say you.
Speaker 1: Can't outwork a at work a bad diet which is
Speaker 1: in your in your twenties and thirties, I'd.
Speaker 3: Argue, I'd argue with I'd argue because I but really
Speaker 3: bad and I was really really into the hardcore running
Speaker 3: and doing lots of lots of miles, ate everything, drink everything,
Speaker 3: and it was good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just burn it up. But man, now it's
Speaker 2: it catches up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it catches up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, same thing.
Speaker 1: I eat like an a hole a lot of the
Speaker 1: year and then right now I'm I'm on the carnivore diet.
Speaker 1: You know, I gotta drop some pounds before September and
Speaker 1: you know, back to the you know, hiking those hills.
Speaker 1: I will go to the gym, lift some weights I'd
Speaker 1: like to get. I like to do a dumbbell workhouse
Speaker 1: to get my shoulders strong, you know, just build strength
Speaker 1: that way you can grab those quarters, pick them up,
Speaker 1: lug them around.
Speaker 2: You know. I've always been pretty strong anyway, but it's good.
Speaker 1: Like as I age, I don't have that superhuman strength
Speaker 1: I had when I was younger, you know, and I
Speaker 1: was in my thirties. Now I don't have a physical job,
Speaker 1: so I'm not as strong. So I got to I
Speaker 1: get to keep keep some some strength training in there
Speaker 1: to to be able to let log those quarters around
Speaker 1: and also even to us walking around with your day pack.
Speaker 1: You know, a day pack can be anywhere from ten
Speaker 1: to twenty five pounds, depending on where you're at, what
Speaker 1: you're doing. And my shoulders will get really sore if
Speaker 1: I haven't done any kind of they'll get fatigued, if
Speaker 1: I haven't done any short workouts.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the shoulders burn just having a pack on.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: The other thing that I've noticed, like running, my cardio
Speaker 4: is really good, but still like we went shed hunting
Speaker 4: and we did some bear hunts and like say, only
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five pounds pack on, nothing big, but putting
Speaker 4: boots on and actually hiking hills instead of running hills.
Speaker 4: I was sore, like big time. My shin's hurt, back hurts,
Speaker 4: And so I've got it about now is probably where
Speaker 4: I need to start introducing a little bit more hikes
Speaker 4: into my workout system. Its that it just runs, because
Speaker 4: it definitely takes different ligaments muscles than keeping that momentum
Speaker 4: of a run. So you're you're doing things a lot slower.
Speaker 1: A lot more stabilization muscles are used all this and
Speaker 1: that's a good thing with trail running.
Speaker 4: Like my ankles as they feel really super strong from
Speaker 4: trail runs, so I don't I don't roll ankles very often.
Speaker 3: Never really.
Speaker 1: I should do some light running just to kind of
Speaker 1: help my ankles because my ankles are I got a
Speaker 1: bad ankle I had surgery on.
Speaker 2: In December of twenty two.
Speaker 1: But I need to and it's feeling really good now,
Speaker 1: but it'd be it never can hurt to have stronger ankles. Yeah, so,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I probably I probably should work on my
Speaker 1: fitness and my diet year round, you know, especially now
Speaker 1: that I'm older. And I could get away with that
Speaker 1: when I was younger, but nowadays I just can't do it.
Speaker 2: It catches up to you.
Speaker 1: Everything, Your metabolism slows down, you know, just harder to
Speaker 1: get off the couch. And yeah, I need I need to.
Speaker 1: I need to now that in my fifties, Now that
Speaker 1: I'm fifty, I need to. I need to like reevaluate
Speaker 1: and start doing things different. Yeah what's that your next?
Speaker 2: That song?
Speaker 1: My next thirty years? You know, I'm gonna start doing
Speaker 1: some things a little differently. So yeah, that way can
Speaker 1: have some honey in my in my sixties and seventies
Speaker 1: and enjoy them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so that's yeah, that's kind of my elk hunting.
Speaker 2: You know, are you spot in stock? Are you call heavy?
Speaker 3: I'm a call heavy.
Speaker 4: I've killed one, well one elk silent. And it was
Speaker 4: the hardest thing I could do not to rip out
Speaker 4: a bugle because the bulls.
Speaker 3: Just streaming and I can't see him.
Speaker 4: He's just over the edge, and I'm just like, I
Speaker 4: know if I call, he'll come over here.
Speaker 3: And it was just like pulling teeth not to call.
Speaker 3: But it worked out.
Speaker 4: And uh, because I had I had a cow out
Speaker 4: in front of me and and I had another bull
Speaker 4: coming up to that cow, and all I could see
Speaker 4: was just time.
Speaker 3: And then as soon as he.
Speaker 4: Just busted out of there, and I thought, well, two things,
Speaker 4: either that bull's coming or they winded me. So I
Speaker 4: went to full draw, took two steps up the hill
Speaker 4: and all here is glunks. Here he comes, walked right
Speaker 4: up to that cow twenty yards and smoked him. So
Speaker 4: he had no idea was there. And that's the that's
Speaker 4: the problem with calling, is it's like they know you're there.
Speaker 4: You're giving it up right.
Speaker 1: I just love calling, Yes, but it's a it's a
Speaker 1: poker game, chess match, whatever. You can't show your cards,
Speaker 1: can't move your your your pieces until at the right moment,
Speaker 1: and sometimes, like you said, that, the right moment never
Speaker 1: came for you to call.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and that's the thing I kept pulling.
Speaker 4: I think I could, and then that you know, and
Speaker 4: then you do, and then it doesn't work out, and
Speaker 4: you're like, so, I've had a lot of times where
Speaker 4: it's like there's probably times I should have just shut
Speaker 4: up and I and I didn't, which is fine, you know,
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know. We hunt, We hunt hard
Speaker 4: and long, and we we have access to time to hunt,
Speaker 4: which is good. So I'm willing to booger some stuff up.
Speaker 3: Yeah I'm not.
Speaker 4: I'm not worried that that was my one opportunity. I
Speaker 4: feel like I can get a few more opportunities because
Speaker 4: of the way we hunt and and calling I think
Speaker 4: offers more.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I think that that's the things that sucks is when
Speaker 3: the OLP don't talk back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the that's the hard part because I.
Speaker 4: Get used to nothing but answers, and so you know,
Speaker 4: you'll be you know, working down into some some areas
Speaker 4: and you're doing some some calls and nothing answers, and
Speaker 4: then you walk fifty yards and blow elk out and
Speaker 4: you're like, why why didn't he just say something?
Speaker 1: And sometimes in primetime, you know that third week of September,
Speaker 1: it's like there's got to be bold and that. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're hearing me, they're just tight.
Speaker 3: Lip and he's just like, Oh, I'm just gonna stand
Speaker 3: here and wait till you come down here.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, such as the life of elk calling, it can
Speaker 1: be really awesome or really terrible.
Speaker 2: I guess that's where you have to be able to pivot.
Speaker 1: Like if you're in country where you can spot them
Speaker 1: and then like you get on them, that's good.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So this year is gonna be going to be that
Speaker 4: because the tag I drew is definitely in country that
Speaker 4: I'm not used to hunting, So it's gonna be glass
Speaker 4: and spotting stalking. I'm kind of nervous on that because
Speaker 4: I'm not real stealthy, patient kind of hunter.
Speaker 2: I'm not either either.
Speaker 4: I stumble on a blade of grass, so I'm sure
Speaker 4: I'm gonna roll rocks and be loud and so stalking
Speaker 4: is going to be tough, but we'll see, it'll be fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah, get it done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a new way to do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I know in times where I've like stalked in on bugles,
Speaker 1: my my anticipation is through the roof, Like I almost
Speaker 1: psyched myself out with like excitement. I mean, it is
Speaker 1: an exciting way to do it, just like anticipating the opportunity.
Speaker 2: But also I.
Speaker 1: Love the interaction with ELK when you call him, and
Speaker 1: that's it's funner yet so I can see both.
Speaker 3: More.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely they are the lesser species.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean some people like Ryan Lampers might argue with
Speaker 1: you and laugh in your face if you said that,
Speaker 1: but it's okay.
Speaker 2: I mean he's entitled to that opinion.
Speaker 3: But he's not a good ELK caller.
Speaker 2: But he's not a good.
Speaker 1: ELK caller, but he's a great ELK killer. Yes, he
Speaker 1: can call good enough to get it done. But h reason,
Speaker 1: the big reason I want to talk to you today
Speaker 1: is because man, it seems like if you get on Facebook,
Speaker 1: you get on Instagram, you get on social media or
Speaker 1: any forums, no matter where you're at, there's there's a
Speaker 1: lot of people reaching out asking questions to other people
Speaker 1: about Hey, I'm trying to dial in the perfect elk arrow,
Speaker 1: you know, and they're staying their setups and my drawing
Speaker 1: and my bow, my boat, my draw weight and la
Speaker 1: la la, and I want to do this, and you
Speaker 1: know this is the arrow I have? Is this good enough?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 1: There's so much information out there on both sides. One
Speaker 1: one camp says you have to shoot an eight hundred
Speaker 1: grain arrow, one camp says you have to shoot a
Speaker 1: four hundred grain arrows Well, you know, there's all these
Speaker 1: differences of opinion on what the perfect elk.
Speaker 3: Hunting arrow is, a perfect amount of foc front of center,
Speaker 3: front of center.
Speaker 2: Wait, wait if you didn't know what that is.
Speaker 4: So I get the calls too, because I do a
Speaker 4: lot of customer service calls too. So everybody across the
Speaker 4: country who calls Black Eagle a good chance I'm going
Speaker 4: to be answering the phone, and so a lot of
Speaker 4: can I.
Speaker 2: Just call in and like mess with you? Yeah, Hello,
Speaker 2: I have a problem.
Speaker 4: I have a transfer button, so I usually transfer somebody
Speaker 4: with weird, somebody with some more experience me or patients.
Speaker 4: But but yeah, so I think I personally feel, you know,
Speaker 4: shooting enough elk seeing some differences.
Speaker 3: I've went down that road.
Speaker 4: I went to the real heavy, and I tell people
Speaker 4: I've killed them with three hundred and seventy greets. So
Speaker 4: I've killed them with five hundred and seventy and I'll
Speaker 4: and everything in between, and not one elk died any
Speaker 4: deader than the other.
Speaker 3: But I know I'll never shoot that heavy again.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And the main reason on that is I don't have
Speaker 4: the draw length or the poundage to push that heavy
Speaker 4: and narrow at a speed that I want, and which
Speaker 4: that speed is that two eighty to ninety mark. And
Speaker 4: there's some people that still can't even get to that
Speaker 4: just because of their limits on draw links or or poundage.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's back, let's before we go further. Why
Speaker 1: is that to eighty to two ninety? Yeah, So speed's important.
Speaker 4: The big thing on that is if you were to
Speaker 4: measure or look at a site tape, measure your gap
Speaker 4: from twenty to sixty, if you were to shoot a
Speaker 4: speed of two sixty versus two eighty, and you look
Speaker 4: at the gap difference from that twenty to sixty, that
Speaker 4: that pen gap shrinks a lot when you go from
Speaker 4: two eighty to three hundred, that twenty to sixty gap
Speaker 4: barely changes, so at some point there's no much not
Speaker 4: much more return in my gapping of my pins of
Speaker 4: getting any tighter. And then most of us, especially still
Speaker 4: out west, are shooting a fixed head, and so once
Speaker 4: you start getting into that three hundred feet per second,
Speaker 4: the boat can become finicky when we start putting steering
Speaker 4: devices on the front of it. So it still stays
Speaker 4: in a very tunable state, very shootable state. In that
Speaker 4: two eighty two ninety markets it's very forgiving still, and
Speaker 4: I'm not going to gain anything more in my pin
Speaker 4: gap of shrinking. So that's kind of where everybody just
Speaker 4: settles into that magic area. So if I'm shooting a
Speaker 4: bow that's going to be sixty three pounds, I look
Speaker 4: at my IBO rating of that bow, I'll probably shoot it.
Speaker 4: Go ahead and shoot a random arrow through the graph.
Speaker 3: And see where I'm at.
Speaker 4: And I know that every thirty grains is ten feet,
Speaker 4: So if I shoot a four to fifty graine arrow
Speaker 4: through the graph at two seventy, I know I need
Speaker 4: to gain ten feet, So I need to shove or
Speaker 4: take thirty grains off of that arrow. So I want
Speaker 4: to try and build an arrow around four to twenty
Speaker 4: to get to me too eighty.
Speaker 2: Do I mess with your poundage or your bow at
Speaker 2: all a little.
Speaker 4: Bit, because that's you know, I want to be comfortable,
Speaker 4: I want to aim good at that I'll make everything
Speaker 4: else work. And this is the beautiful thing from back
Speaker 4: in the day where we didn't have arrow choices, and
Speaker 4: so poundage was the only way we could gain speed
Speaker 4: overdraws were the only way we could shorten an arrow
Speaker 4: up to make it lighter. So we've seen a lot
Speaker 4: of ninety pound bows back in the day, and they
Speaker 4: didn't have any letoff and twenty five inches arrows, and
Speaker 4: we didn't have the tunability of a bow now. But now,
Speaker 4: I mean, there's so many arrows that we can pick
Speaker 4: an arrow to come into the weight that we want
Speaker 4: to shoot the speeds that we need to shoot. So
Speaker 4: and that's kind of how I'll base everything as far
Speaker 4: as foc goes. If I say, I say, but the
Speaker 4: arrow build for this year is going to be you know,
Speaker 4: four hundred and twenty to four hundred and thirty, and
Speaker 4: then I'll start looking through our catalog of arrows and
Speaker 4: I'll it gets a little bit tricky because of FOC
Speaker 4: does change the spine.
Speaker 3: It weakens up a spine.
Speaker 4: So depending on how much tip weight you're going to
Speaker 4: run to make sure you're going to stay in a spine.
Speaker 4: So if I know that the arrows that I'm looking at,
Speaker 4: I can still keep into us, say a three point fifty,
Speaker 4: I'll look at the arrows, the two arrows that I'm
Speaker 4: come down to, if they're both gonna come in at
Speaker 4: four twenty four to twenty five, but one arrow has
Speaker 4: one hundred and sixty grains in the nose and the
Speaker 4: other one has one hundred and twenty in the nose,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna take the one hundred and twenty or one hundred
Speaker 4: and sixty grains. I'm gonna take that more FOC on
Speaker 4: that arrow that's gonna weigh the same as the other one.
Speaker 4: So I'll always take FOC if I can get it,
Speaker 4: But I don't base everything off of that.
Speaker 3: I'm still basing everything on my overall weight of an arrow.
Speaker 3: So so it's say a.
Speaker 4: Spartan arrow versus a rampage. A rampage is gonna have
Speaker 4: fifty six grain half out and a Spartan has a
Speaker 4: twenty six grain insert.
Speaker 3: So right there, there's thirty grains difference.
Speaker 4: And if that arrow, because of this, the build on
Speaker 4: those overall weight is within five.
Speaker 3: Ten grains of each other. I'm gonna take the one
Speaker 3: with the.
Speaker 2: More foc Yeah.
Speaker 4: So, and I think, you know, I think another thing
Speaker 4: about people think come out west and shooting elk or
Speaker 4: shooting moose. You know, they need a bigger, heavier system.
Speaker 4: And I think the opposite on it, because I look
Speaker 4: at it as a target, and it's a stationary target.
Speaker 4: You take a lighter target, a light hoofed animal or
Speaker 4: a bag target that's hanging. It absorbs all the energy
Speaker 4: and so your penetration goes down. You take a cedar
Speaker 4: bail or you know, put a bag target against the wall,
Speaker 4: the arrow keeps driving through that.
Speaker 3: And so you take an elk or a moose, they
Speaker 3: kind of stand there.
Speaker 4: Well, every comes some wind again that you know, that
Speaker 4: target stands there, and so that penetration gets better as
Speaker 4: the bigger the animal.
Speaker 3: In my opinion, that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a more stationary, solid target you're shooting into.
Speaker 1: There's it doesn't give yep.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's not absorbing the you know, And that's
Speaker 4: why a lot of white tails, especially the ones that
Speaker 4: look up the tree, usually that arrow doesn't get through
Speaker 4: that animal. But when that animals relax and has no
Speaker 4: idea about the reaction time of that shot happening, you
Speaker 4: can usually blow through a white tail at fifty pounds,
Speaker 4: no problem. I've shot through a lot of the white
Speaker 4: tails here at fifty two pounds, right. So but when
Speaker 4: they're looking at you, you're you're probably gonna lose a
Speaker 4: little bit of energy there because they're pretty fast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny. I've I kind of stumbled onto that
Speaker 1: same idea on my own through trials and tribulations over
Speaker 1: the years, mostly regarding pit gap, right. I don't want
Speaker 1: these great, big pin gaps. Reason being, if you misjudge
Speaker 1: your yardage by three to five yards, when you have
Speaker 1: a huge pin gap, you're gonna miss or hit somewhere
Speaker 1: you don't want to hit.
Speaker 4: And that's what happened when I shot that big, heavy arrow,
Speaker 4: and I you know, I don't know when the last
Speaker 4: I've shot over forty yards, so I'm not a distant shooter.
Speaker 4: And that's where it really opened my eyes because I'm
Speaker 4: like Okay, here's the bull. He's stepping out. It's forty.
Speaker 4: Put forty on him, let it go, and I hit
Speaker 4: at forty. It was forty two yards I shot him
Speaker 4: for and I was five six inches below where my
Speaker 4: pin was, and I was I was actually praying that
Speaker 4: I was going to miss him because it was going
Speaker 4: so low. Ended up leaving the bowl overnight, you know,
Speaker 4: came back and found him.
Speaker 3: You know he was dead.
Speaker 4: But it was like, man, I can't I can't be
Speaker 4: worrying about two to three yards at forty and under, yes,
Speaker 4: and the other thing talking about a pin gap for me,
Speaker 4: I should a two pin that I can move my
Speaker 4: two pins gap wise. It's not a stationary this is
Speaker 4: what it is. And I set it for twenty to
Speaker 4: forty and on an Elk's cavity at fifty yards is
Speaker 4: back to belly. So if I'm at full draw, Elk
Speaker 4: comes in, boogers up, runs out there, stops, looks it
Speaker 4: back at me. If my pins are still inside of
Speaker 4: his chest cavity, he's under fifty yards, and I know
Speaker 4: what my hold is. If my pins are above and
Speaker 4: below him, he's over fifty, I'm gonna let down. So
Speaker 4: it kind of gives me a quick in didn't good
Speaker 4: range finding ability keeps my sight pitcher clean, And like
Speaker 4: I said, I just I don't feel the need to
Speaker 4: have to shoot and push the envelope on some further shots.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it sounds like you like to keep your
Speaker 1: shots fortying in fortying under. So you know, with all
Speaker 1: the hype these days guys, you know, practicing long distances
Speaker 1: and wanting to shoot an elk at seventy yards and
Speaker 1: what's your opinion on them?
Speaker 4: I don't try to have an opinion on it, because
Speaker 4: it's a moral issue that you battle with your own self, right,
Speaker 4: And I alwasy tell people if you question yourself and
Speaker 4: you lose that animal, I hope you beat yourself up.
Speaker 4: But because you're going to still the possibilities of losing
Speaker 4: an animal at twenty yard shot is still going to
Speaker 4: be there. So I have a hard time saying it's
Speaker 4: because of that distance, right, But when I take a
Speaker 4: twenty yard shot, there's never a doubt. And if there's
Speaker 4: a doubt in my mind, that's the thing that you
Speaker 4: got to live into, the little voice in your in
Speaker 4: your head. I do think that some people can get
Speaker 4: some false hope because shooting some targets, the target's not moving,
Speaker 4: You're you're not under stress.
Speaker 1: I've I've seen that a lot of these ELK training
Speaker 1: camps have gone to you know, in the questionaire when
Speaker 1: you sign up, what's your.
Speaker 3: What disisgust with Dan and watch him do that?
Speaker 4: Get a heart rate improved and watch people watch you
Speaker 4: put a little bit of pressure on you.
Speaker 3: And these guys have a hard time hitting that dot.
Speaker 1: Yeah you got you got thirty people looking at you
Speaker 1: and you said fifty yards. It's damn tough for them
Speaker 1: to even hit the target.
Speaker 2: Let alone.
Speaker 3: It's the same thing as a steel target. You put
Speaker 3: the steel target out there.
Speaker 4: Also in the stress level changes because I got it,
Speaker 4: you know, so, I mean that's hunting. I mean yeah,
Speaker 4: So I try not to, Like I say, it's a
Speaker 4: moral thing that you've got a battle with yourself. I
Speaker 4: just feel like at where I am in my life,
Speaker 4: like I don't need to push to the envelope. I
Speaker 4: feel confident that I'm going to get opportunities and it's
Speaker 4: not the end of the world if I don't kill
Speaker 4: an elk. Honestly, I love being in the woods. I
Speaker 4: love sunsets, I love the sunrises. I love the thunderstorms.
Speaker 4: I love everything about September that I get enough enjoyment
Speaker 4: out of that that the taking of the animals the bonus.
Speaker 4: But it's not for me, unfortunately, I guess. I guess
Speaker 4: it's unfortunate. Maybe it's fortunate.
Speaker 3: I don't know. But it's not like the determining factor
Speaker 3: of whether or.
Speaker 2: Not that you had fun. Yeah, yeah, so no, I
Speaker 2: get that. I love that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It is a it is a morality thing, and you're
Speaker 1: not here to be the moral morality police, not either.
Speaker 2: No, And I'd like to talk about it.
Speaker 1: To like, you know, I think more informed people, you know,
Speaker 1: can start quite I feel like it's very important to
Speaker 1: question yourself. I know, I'm my own worst critic, and
Speaker 1: I love that how you said, if if you doubted
Speaker 1: the shot and then you make a bad shot, you
Speaker 1: better beat yourself up, right.
Speaker 3: Don't normalize it. That's the big thing.
Speaker 4: And you know, we start to see more more of
Speaker 4: this stuff being filmed or talked about, you know, and
Speaker 4: a run in an archery shot for years. My struggle
Speaker 4: with it is I feel like people are are being
Speaker 4: more okay with losing animals, and I think that's terrible.
Speaker 4: I think that's wrong.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that, So I'm not okay with it.
Speaker 1: That's why I try to keep my shots.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I know people and I did it. I've
Speaker 4: lost animals. And I look at it and I say,
Speaker 4: you know, it was a fatal hit. I'm punching my tag. Yes,
Speaker 4: And I don't judge people for not doing it. Like
Speaker 4: I said, I these are all things that you have
Speaker 4: to deal with yourself. But looking at it as a
Speaker 4: whole of us as hunters, I don't think we should
Speaker 4: ever normalize it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. What's your take on this is kind
Speaker 1: off the topic arrows, but you know, people normalize and stuff.
Speaker 1: What's your take on the on people just being crappy
Speaker 1: to each other on social and all these all these
Speaker 1: little little TIFFs and people getting these arguments on social media,
Speaker 1: and and uh, there's a like arguments absolutely horribly.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: I'm not a crossbow guy, and you see a lot
Speaker 4: of it on crossbow stuff. I seen one particular person
Speaker 4: say something about I don't even know if I want
Speaker 4: to say it. It was it was so bad, you know,
Speaker 4: and it was a pretty prominent person, and I'm.
Speaker 3: Thinking that's just horrible. Because you don't know the limitations
Speaker 3: of anybody else. And it's the same thing.
Speaker 4: We go back into the moral thing, right, you know,
Speaker 4: why am I going to determine whether or not you
Speaker 4: want to shoot sixty yards? Why are why are you
Speaker 4: determined whether or not I shoot? Shooting and expandable? You know,
Speaker 4: it's just you know, there's there's all these things, and
Speaker 4: we've got enough people and coming. The big thing for
Speaker 4: me is coming from a state such as Oregon and
Speaker 4: Washington where we watched hunters fight against hunters and we
Speaker 4: lost baron cougar hunting, we lost running hounds, we lost
Speaker 4: baiting because the hunters couldn't unite to each other. And
Speaker 4: so when things went to a vote, because you're doing
Speaker 4: something that I didn't approve on, so I'm going to
Speaker 4: tell you no.
Speaker 3: And I look at that and I'm like, this is
Speaker 3: the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. Absolutely, if you
Speaker 3: don't want to hunt with a crossbow, don't do it.
Speaker 3: I've never seen anybody else's equipment ever screw up any
Speaker 3: of my hunts. I was like, man, I would have
Speaker 3: killed a note, but there was a guy out there
Speaker 3: hunting with a crossbow. From crying out loud. You know,
Speaker 3: it just makes no sense.
Speaker 2: To make no sense.
Speaker 4: So so yeah, so I'm watching hunters fight against hunters
Speaker 4: and watching watching us lose our rights to hunt. That's why,
Speaker 4: the biggest reason why I am so against people treating
Speaker 4: other hunters that way. It's pretty simple. Turn the channel,
Speaker 4: you know, if you don't watch the program that's on TV,
Speaker 4: turn the channel. Yeah, if you don't want to hunt
Speaker 4: the way that the person is hunting.
Speaker 3: It's okay, it's fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't have to. Nobody's saying you had to.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's say if it's legal, that's the thing. If
Speaker 1: it's legal, the state's determined it's legal. Yeah, then let
Speaker 1: them do it. Someone wants to do it, let's go
Speaker 1: right ahead.
Speaker 4: And there's a lot of things. You know, we're older too,
Speaker 4: and you know, back in the day, what I thought
Speaker 4: was dumb, and now I've done I'm like, it's actually
Speaker 4: kind of fun. You know, for me hunting out of
Speaker 4: a tree, I thought, god, I could never do it.
Speaker 4: And I look forward to hunting white tailed dos in
Speaker 4: you know, in October, November whatever time that you know,
Speaker 4: that late season.
Speaker 3: I enjoy it. It's kind of fun. It's a different hunt.
Speaker 1: It's relaxing, it's fun to watch animal behavior. I love
Speaker 1: watching deer.
Speaker 3: But back in my earlier days, I man, I couldn't
Speaker 3: do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's stupid. They should outlaw that. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: My good friend Bradley, you know, he runs hound dogs
Speaker 1: and he doesn't run baits. He has, but he doesn't
Speaker 1: run baits anymore. But he's not against him and by
Speaker 1: all means, if other people want a bait, he supports it.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'll stand there right with him and I
Speaker 1: will fight for them to have baits.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I hope they fight for me to have
Speaker 2: dogs dogs. You know.
Speaker 4: Well that's the thing too with like even you know,
Speaker 4: like going back to dogs, like you know, looking back
Speaker 4: and saying I don't understand it because I.
Speaker 3: Don't do it or whatever.
Speaker 4: But when you really get to know some of those guys,
Speaker 4: it's just the same thing for me. Like I said
Speaker 4: of like I love the thunderstorms, I love the sunsets,
Speaker 4: I love the smoke in the air of of what
Speaker 4: colors it will turn in September. And a hounsman loves
Speaker 4: watching his dogs work, And same thing with a duck hutter,
Speaker 4: you know, they they love the animal side of the
Speaker 4: dogs working and the calling of the duck. You know,
Speaker 4: it's not you know, there's so there's other reasons why
Speaker 4: people hunt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do I want to get up at three am
Speaker 1: and go set up decoys?
Speaker 2: It's not really for me.
Speaker 3: I did it for a while and I was like,
Speaker 3: this sucks. I can't I can't even unbutton my pants
Speaker 3: that go to the bathroom. My hands are so so numb.
Speaker 3: It was like all to shoot a duck that I
Speaker 3: didn't really enjoy eating. And but also what I had
Speaker 3: a dog back then, and so I did watch like
Speaker 3: watching my dog work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the dog loved it. Yeah, my bulldog doesn't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's not a duck retreating. No, probably don't swim a lot.
Speaker 1: You know, she sinks she's a bolder. So what I'm
Speaker 1: hearing is we're looking for speed, we're looking for pin gap,
Speaker 1: and we were prioritizing that over araw weight.
Speaker 3: Well no airrowweight. Yeah, I mean as far as going
Speaker 3: over the board.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like like saying, oh I need X amount of
Speaker 4: I need another and arrow.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 4: I if my five hundred grain arrow shoots to eighty,
Speaker 4: then That's what I'm gonna shoot. But if my four
Speaker 4: hundred and twenty grain arrow shoots to eighty. That's what
Speaker 4: I'm building. I'm not gonna build for the momentum thing.
Speaker 4: And my feelings on the momentum thing is momentum really
Speaker 4: doesn't start to take a place until a distance. And
Speaker 4: I don't know really what that distance is, but I
Speaker 4: don't believe it's at forty yards and under right, right,
Speaker 4: And I think you can see that especially in ballistics
Speaker 4: of a gun, you know, and yes, it makes a difference,
Speaker 4: and you're shooting, you know, five hundred yards and you're
Speaker 4: seeing a light bullet die off versus a heavy bullet
Speaker 4: holding some more energy at five hundred yards type of thing.
Speaker 4: We're talking realistically forty yards and under as an average shot,
Speaker 4: So don't I don't think momentum has come into play.
Speaker 4: And when you look at the calculations like on an app,
Speaker 4: like I was just showing a guy here and changing
Speaker 4: the arroweight and the speeds, and the momentum went point
Speaker 4: five three to point five eight. When there's a decimal
Speaker 4: point in front of the number, it's not a very
Speaker 4: big number, right, So versus watching kinetic energy change by
Speaker 4: you know, three to five foot pounds of kinetic energy.
Speaker 4: I just feel like foot pounds of kinetic energy is
Speaker 4: better than that decimal point moving.
Speaker 1: Right right, So I know, I know, man, it can
Speaker 1: make people crazy, like they're just like frustrated and just like, man,
Speaker 1: I really got to dial this in and it can
Speaker 1: be real confusing. So I'm really glad you kind of
Speaker 1: cleared that up.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: And the good thing is is if if you get
Speaker 1: something that's pretty close and you're like, I think, I
Speaker 1: think this is the right way to are and both
Speaker 1: shooting the right pin gap and the right feet per second,
Speaker 1: I think this will work, and like be confident in
Speaker 1: the setup because we're we've been around for a long time,
Speaker 1: thirty plus years bow hunting, back when we didn't weigh arrows,
Speaker 1: we didn't don't even know what FOC was.
Speaker 2: Yep, we I shot. I used to.
Speaker 1: Shoot twenty six inch arrows with an overdraw with an
Speaker 1: eighty pound bow back in the eighties, right, And I
Speaker 1: don't know how fast it went.
Speaker 2: But it it It.
Speaker 1: Went pretty fast, it seemed like and it sounded like
Speaker 1: a thirty thirty going off when you shoot, you know,
Speaker 1: it's pretty loud, but you know those arrows penetrated good
Speaker 1: you know, I had some path through.
Speaker 4: And that being said too, a lot of what we're
Speaker 4: talking about is what I consider being on the ground,
Speaker 4: because speed doesn't really When you go into a tree,
Speaker 4: it changes. Your distances are fixed. You can usually put
Speaker 4: flags out there or no, you've already ranged the trail. Yeah,
Speaker 4: And so you're like, okay, there's a fixed distance. It's
Speaker 4: going to be twenty five yards and under heavy arrow
Speaker 4: shoot it.
Speaker 3: I don't care.
Speaker 4: Not a big deal. But for what we do when
Speaker 4: elk or deer are coming in and going, they can
Speaker 4: change that distance by two yards three yards very quickly
Speaker 4: and not even notice it. And so that pin gap
Speaker 4: is more important than you know. If I was shooting
Speaker 4: hogs over bait, i'd probably shoot a heavy arrow cut
Speaker 4: on contact. You got to shoot down into the target,
Speaker 4: so you need to make sure you're getting a little
Speaker 4: bit more penetration.
Speaker 3: You know that.
Speaker 4: It's all good, But for really what we're talking about,
Speaker 4: elk hunting, a meal deer hunting.
Speaker 2: It's a Western hunting. It's not the same game.
Speaker 3: No, So that's kind of how I build mine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, And some of the arrows
Speaker 1: I shot in the past, i'd never even wait them before.
Speaker 1: And then I started doing the math, you know, adding
Speaker 1: things up, and before I had an aerow scale, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I was, I'm almost embarrassed to say, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm shooting like a four hundred grain arrow, because I
Speaker 1: was embarrassed to say, you know, they killed elk well,
Speaker 1: and they put people have a shamed you to think
Speaker 1: that you're ethical to shoot such a light era right right,
Speaker 1: So you know, honestly, you can kill elk with a
Speaker 1: lot of good arrow setups. You know, whether you're a
Speaker 1: little heavier, a little lighter. In the end, it's all
Speaker 1: about shot placement. Yeah, you have to hit them good,
Speaker 1: don't matter how heavi your arrow is.
Speaker 4: If you have an idelt spot, you're not going to
Speaker 4: kill them. And they're again going you've killed enough animals too,
Speaker 4: and your penetration changes. And this is where I don't
Speaker 4: think that the information that we have really is still skewed,
Speaker 4: because going back to a light animal versus a heavy animal,
Speaker 4: an alert animal versus a non alert animal, penetration depths
Speaker 4: all change.
Speaker 2: It's all anecdotal information.
Speaker 3: The same thing with blood trails. You know you can.
Speaker 4: You can hit one artery and blood squirting everywhere, and
Speaker 4: you could just miss that artery. And that air hole
Speaker 4: is a half an inch difference from another air hole.
Speaker 4: Blood trails are gonna be totally different. And everybody's like, oh,
Speaker 4: I'll never use that broad head again.
Speaker 3: It didn't bleed.
Speaker 1: It's like, you have to be smart, you're a little
Speaker 1: scientific things for everyone's going to be due.
Speaker 4: But what I do know is it's usually pretty quick.
Speaker 4: And so for me, if I don't watch an elk
Speaker 4: fall or hear an elk fall, I'm nervous and I'm
Speaker 4: going to take my time. I've learned that it's when
Speaker 4: it's right, it's right, and it's fast. So if if
Speaker 4: I don't hear it or see it, I'm going to
Speaker 4: really really slow down because there's no reason to ever
Speaker 4: be in a hurry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree, And then retracing blood. Don't get
Speaker 1: ahead of the evidence, right, that's like a quote from
Speaker 1: all CSI, you know, Hal Grisome, like, all right, got
Speaker 1: people start making assumptions, Oh, maybe it this way, maybe
Speaker 1: it went that way.
Speaker 2: Hey, don't get ahead of the evidence. Let's stay on
Speaker 2: the blood.
Speaker 1: I think one person can like kind of look ahead
Speaker 1: and stuff, but if you get people walking ahead and
Speaker 1: moving around and person you can mess up the blood
Speaker 1: trail if you're having a hard.
Speaker 4: Time stepping on a couple of branches here and there,
Speaker 4: or leaves, and and you kick the leaf over. Now
Speaker 4: the blood's underneath and you stir them down there where
Speaker 4: you're trying to you know, pine needles are the worst.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like picking it up. You're like I had
Speaker 1: a leaf one time, like, oh, it's just kind of red.
Speaker 1: And I tasted it and I'm like, I'll taste blood.
Speaker 1: I taste it, like, nope, that's pee. How do you
Speaker 1: know what he tastes. Well, I've smelled olk p and
Speaker 1: it tasted a lot like it smells.
Speaker 2: Hey, you know, maybe I should. I don't want to
Speaker 2: reveal all my secrets.
Speaker 1: Oh man, Well, hey, I appreciate you getting on here
Speaker 1: and talking about those arrows. I think sometimes we just,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody, I think a lot of people want
Speaker 1: to put the best foot forward.
Speaker 4: We do everyone, and I think everybody's trying to give.
Speaker 4: And that's one thing with archers not saying that there's
Speaker 4: bad information out there. There's a lot of information out there,
Speaker 4: and there's not anybody on purposely trying to steer people
Speaker 4: the wrong way, right.
Speaker 3: And.
Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, it's like, man,
Speaker 4: you can really overthink it, or you can really go
Speaker 4: down a lot of rabbit holes. And I'm pretty pretty
Speaker 4: much over the I'm just going to keep it simple
Speaker 4: and and I know what works, and it has worked,
Speaker 4: and shot placement, putting animals in front of you, I think,
Speaker 4: I think if if if I had advice, you know,
Speaker 4: people learn spend more time understanding what they're hunting than
Speaker 4: geeking out on gadgets and percentaches and weights and all
Speaker 4: this other stuff, because at the end of the day,
Speaker 4: if you don't put an animal in front, even none
Speaker 4: of it mattered.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I don't think there's enough infhasis on woodsmanship, yep,
Speaker 1: and understanding animals behavior, body language. All of that back
Speaker 1: to that point where some people will take a maybe
Speaker 1: a frontal shot not at the right time, or or
Speaker 1: or a longer shot. They're like, well, that was the
Speaker 1: only shot I had. But I've been around long enough
Speaker 1: and I have passed enough shots to where I know
Speaker 1: that when you feel like, oh, this is the only
Speaker 1: shot I have, then the animal makes a decision and
Speaker 1: keeps coming forward and they present you with a really
Speaker 1: good shot. I've had that more happen a lot of times,
Speaker 1: and then sometimes they slip away. But then it's okay
Speaker 1: because I'll hustle over there and keep calling and then
Speaker 1: call them back in for a good shot, or maybe
Speaker 1: I chase them another day.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you know, kind of going into that frontel thing. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's a tough talk pick for a lot of folks.
Speaker 4: I like it, but I but I also know my
Speaker 4: limitations of distance to shoot it, and my thought process
Speaker 4: on this is also if I can't hit that size
Speaker 4: of a spot that I need to hit there, I've
Speaker 4: got a lot more stuff to miss on a broad side,
Speaker 4: shut right, Because so if I can't put it where
Speaker 4: it needs to be a broadside, if you shoot one
Speaker 4: of the guts, it's guaranteed death. So if I shoot
Speaker 4: one off to the side on a frontel, it's probably
Speaker 4: a solid bone, not penetration, not into a vital organ
Speaker 4: to cause death. But going into that is that's kind
Speaker 4: of goes into what broadhead I choose, because like I
Speaker 4: shot an milk with an expandable because I've never been
Speaker 4: able to do it because I had never allowed it,
Speaker 4: and I'm I'm going to do it, and I did
Speaker 4: it with a light arrow and light poundage and a
Speaker 4: big cut and it worked great. But I'll probably never
Speaker 4: shoot it again. And people are like, what do you mean?
Speaker 4: It worked great? And then you say you're never going
Speaker 4: to shoot it again. It's because I know I'm an
Speaker 4: elk caller and eighty percent of the elk I shoot
Speaker 4: will probably be coming frontal. And I don't think that
Speaker 4: neck hide neck hair on a expandable is a good combination.
Speaker 2: That's a lot of hair, that's a lot of high You.
Speaker 4: Can't hardly get your knife through it, and that tells
Speaker 4: you how much energy is that robbing you to get
Speaker 4: in there. So because of that, I'm probably not. But
Speaker 4: if I was more of a spot in stock and
Speaker 4: like the you know that elk I shot when I
Speaker 4: was quiet, Yeah, I shot him perfectly broad sid He
Speaker 4: walks right in front of me with not a care
Speaker 4: in the world, not even know it, and I shot
Speaker 4: him still with a fixed head. But like I said,
Speaker 4: it was hard for me to do that. Typically, if
Speaker 4: I was calling that bowl, he would have been coming
Speaker 4: straight on at me at right twenty yards and yep.
Speaker 4: So so I think the overall takeaway is shoot black, igile,
Speaker 4: shoot black.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and uh.
Speaker 1: You know, get dial in, your your your feet per
Speaker 1: second and you know you get a good hit.
Speaker 4: Pit gap, you know all this stuff. Yeah, I was
Speaker 4: he like that when guys were like, well I want
Speaker 4: a four hundred and fifty not four hundred and twenty.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, well, if I shot you with or
Speaker 4: without the lighted knock, yeah, it's really is not going
Speaker 4: to make any difference, right.
Speaker 1: Right, And and then also, don't yuck other people's yum.
Speaker 2: Right. You know, if you're not into it, that's okay.
Speaker 2: Let them be into as long as it's legal.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And if somebody does want to shoot six hundred grain,
Speaker 3: seven hundred grein and arrow, that by all means go ahead.
Speaker 3: And and I'm not you know, because I don't know
Speaker 3: you know what you're doing and why you're doing it.
Speaker 3: As long as you're out there doing it and it
Speaker 3: makes you happy. Yeah, I mean, let's.
Speaker 4: Let's all get together, because we got enough people fighting
Speaker 4: against us, and we've got to we gotta be able
Speaker 4: to stand together as hunters and outdoorsmen. This way of
Speaker 4: life is questioned every year in my opinion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's going to become more question. I feel
Speaker 1: like people in urban society are so much further disconnected.
Speaker 2: With with nature and their food sources.
Speaker 1: And and hunting and all that they just don't even
Speaker 1: know they've never been around it. And if you know,
Speaker 1: if we look like a bunch of a holes fighting
Speaker 1: against each other and can't stand together, how are you
Speaker 1: to how are we gonna let's arrive?
Speaker 3: You know that if they divide the hunters, that's it's
Speaker 3: easy way to conquer it. I mean, we see it
Speaker 3: in politics.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Pink Floyd said it all. Yeah, united, we stand.
Speaker 1: Divided, divided we fall. Yeah, you know, no, so just yeah,
Speaker 1: well thanks for coming on.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 2: The wind is picking.
Speaker 4: Up, and yeah, yesterday the winds came and destroyed our
Speaker 4: our hard display our tent got out of all these
Speaker 4: tent stars, was the only one somebody.
Speaker 3: Was picking on.
Speaker 2: Mother Nature didn't like your tent.
Speaker 4: I didn't like our tent. So yeah, no, it's been
Speaker 4: a good it's been good here though. The weather's been
Speaker 4: pretty good. Got a little bit of rain, a little
Speaker 4: bit thunder, but for the most part, I'm glad I'm
Speaker 4: not shooting because it's been kind of windy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, did you.
Speaker 1: Shoot No, I didn't know. I didn't plan ahead and
Speaker 1: get a shoot card or whatever. Oh yeah I should
Speaker 1: have next year. Next year, Yeah, we'll have to do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't shoot it. I didn't have any plans
Speaker 3: to shoot.
Speaker 4: But I feel like if I do, I want to
Speaker 4: make sure that I'm going with the group of guys
Speaker 4: that I want to go out with there and and
Speaker 4: kind of kind of do what all the other kids
Speaker 4: are doing out there, having a little sight bets and
Speaker 4: picking on each other.
Speaker 3: Absolutely so, absolutely fun. So what do you got next?
Speaker 2: Next up? Next time?
Speaker 1: The summer summer fun man putting out trail cams and
Speaker 1: camping and spend time with family and and just enjoy
Speaker 1: and my summertime.
Speaker 3: If you're doing any other tax or not, I.
Speaker 1: Don't think so. Unless you twist my arm and make
Speaker 1: me go to Utah, I'm gonna go to Utah. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do Elk Summit with Ryan Lamperts next weekend. Okay,
Speaker 1: So that's always do a good time.
Speaker 4: If guys have ever get a chance to go out
Speaker 4: through that, it's it's just really cool.
Speaker 2: You've never I've never gone.
Speaker 3: Jason usually goes.
Speaker 2: He asked me.
Speaker 1: If I could go this year because he can't go
Speaker 1: and I have I have to have a funeral to
Speaker 1: go to that weekend, so I'm not gonna be able
Speaker 1: to make it.
Speaker 3: It's a it's a really really cool deal and it's
Speaker 3: and it's it amazes me the repeat customers. Oh, we
Speaker 3: see guys.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a fun experience.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's pretty cool to just it's kind of
Speaker 4: like Dack, you know, you get to go hang out
Speaker 4: with like minded people and it's not all about all
Speaker 4: the other stuff. There's just other things to go hang
Speaker 4: around good people. But Ryan, Ryan has a lot of
Speaker 4: great information and uh and good guest speakers and stuff
Speaker 4: like that, and so it's in it. We've been doing
Speaker 4: it in different locations all the time too, which is
Speaker 4: kind of cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah. They always sound like an epic epic locations. You know.
Speaker 2: You got in some good hikes and just beautiful battery.
Speaker 3: There the first time we were over there and on
Speaker 3: the other side of this mountain. Yeah, yeah, we've seen
Speaker 3: like five grizzlies the first night camped out. That was
Speaker 3: crazy hikes, long hikes. I think I'm gonna take my
Speaker 3: trad bow on the three D because he's already going
Speaker 3: I'm going to wear these guys out on this three
Speaker 3: D course. And so I'm like, well, I don't want
Speaker 3: to carry a heavy compound.
Speaker 2: That's smart, that's smart.
Speaker 4: I think Joel Turner and Body, we're gonna we're gonna
Speaker 4: try and shoot traditional.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you should show body a thing or two about shit.
Speaker 3: I will show him how to shoot the track though.
Speaker 2: All right, well, thank you for coming on.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go find the little boys room about I'm
Speaker 1: about ready to have a have an accident.
Speaker 2: So when you find you some pine needles, yeah, probably,
Speaker 2: Thanks Corey. Thanks h