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Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Dirk Durham and I have a guest here today.

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Speaker 2: It's Corey Miller.

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Speaker 1: We're in beautiful Big Sky of Montana at Total Archery Challenge.

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Speaker 2: Corey's here with Darton Archery.

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Speaker 1: And Black Eagleros have a booth set up and Cory's

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Speaker 1: longtime friend someone. I appreciate his insight on archery and

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Speaker 1: el cunning. He's an accomplished l hunter. Welcome Corey.

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Speaker 3: Hey, thanks, thanks Derek.

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Speaker 2: I doing really good, really good. What's your job title

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Speaker 2: at SO?

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Speaker 4: I'm the regional sales manager out West. So basically I

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Speaker 4: cover Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. So travel around

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Speaker 4: all the beautiful states. I was born and raised in Oregon,

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Speaker 4: had a shop in Oregon, lived a majority of my life,

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Speaker 4: I guess in Washington, right on the border.

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Speaker 2: And then what was the name of your shop? Triple

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Speaker 2: X R Trey.

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Speaker 1: I bet a, but a lot of our listeners will

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Speaker 1: probably recognize your shop. Yeah, probably recognize you. You've been

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Speaker 1: around the business.

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Speaker 2: For a while. I'm old yah. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And then so we moved to sold the business and

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Speaker 4: moved to Montana. Couldn't be happier on that. Just blessed

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Speaker 4: to live in a great state. And yeah, a lot

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Speaker 4: better elk, environment, people, environment, everything, beauty weather.

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Speaker 1: I just love it out here. Yeah, I love Montana.

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Speaker 1: How many years you been out cutting?

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Speaker 3: Uh, thirty? I think close to thirty. Yeah, yeah, I've

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Speaker 3: kind of forgotten.

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Speaker 1: You've probably seen a lot of different fads and and

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Speaker 1: different things and get gadgets and gizmos and bows and

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Speaker 1: arrows and stuff come long in the last thirty years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's changed and changed a lot.

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Speaker 4: There's been some new stuff which is still old stuff

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Speaker 4: that we did back then, but but now we just

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Speaker 4: do it better. So you know, between fletchings, broadheads, arrow

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Speaker 4: components to you know, the carbon makeup of an arrow

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Speaker 4: and overall weight of an arrow, all those things have

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Speaker 4: changed drastically, you know, in the last to me, in

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Speaker 4: the last really probably ten years, is really starting to

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Speaker 4: change and change a lot.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I remember when I was a kid, I

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Speaker 1: didn't even have a compound bow at the time. I

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Speaker 1: was still shooting like a crappy little re curve. And

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Speaker 1: one of my neighbor kids, his dad was big into

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Speaker 1: archery and they had some kind of.

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Speaker 2: Were they graphite arrows?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Were they were more fiberglass.

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Speaker 2: They were fiberglass.

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Speaker 1: They were weird looking, yeah, and I was like, whoa,

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Speaker 1: those are wow, those are cool? You know, I had

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Speaker 1: my old XX seventy five's you know, or game probably

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Speaker 1: a game getter at that point, you know, my one arrow.

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Speaker 3: I remember when like carbon first came out and everybody's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: they're dangerous. You know, if you shoot an animal, you're

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Speaker 3: gonna want to cut like eight inches around the meat

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Speaker 3: because there's gonna be carbon splinters exploded all through the meat.

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Speaker 3: And so yeah, nobody even thinks about it.

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Speaker 4: Anymore now, and arrow brakes if it does break inside

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Speaker 4: of an animal, and it's not a big deal, but

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Speaker 4: you know it's usually so bloodshot.

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Speaker 2: Nobody's eating that hamburger anyway, right right, Yeah, you just

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Speaker 2: cut that out anyway.

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Speaker 4: With the with the devastation that the broadheads are doing

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Speaker 4: to them, that's pretty well a big hole already.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, So what's your favorite mode of operation

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Speaker 1: when you go l hutting? Are you a day tripper,

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Speaker 1: you a backpack hunter? Like back hunter?

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Speaker 2: What are you like both? What do you do?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: So, I mean like when I first started hunting, it was,

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Speaker 4: you know, pull a camper and had elk camp with you.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know anything other than.

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Speaker 4: Like hunting camps where everybody you know sat around, and

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Speaker 4: it was more of a camping trip slash hunting. I

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Speaker 4: didn't know anything about calling. I remember I sounded good

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Speaker 4: calling and stuff, but I didn't know, like why am

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Speaker 4: I doing what I'm doing and when should I do it?

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Speaker 4: And so then I instantly thought I sucked, and so

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Speaker 4: that I kind of quit calling because I'd be out

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Speaker 4: in the middle of the open, I'd be looking at

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Speaker 4: elk and I'd scream at him and they all turn

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Speaker 4: around and run away, and I'm like, God, I suck

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Speaker 4: at this. And so it took me quite a few

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Speaker 4: years and going to a lot of seminars and listening

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Speaker 4: to other people's tactics and getting confidence enough to try

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Speaker 4: it again and understand it. And then I got reunited

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Speaker 4: back to a childhood friend that all be my hunting partner,

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Speaker 4: that we went to kindergarten together, we went to school,

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Speaker 4: all our lives together, and got reintroduced with him, and

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Speaker 4: he was really big into back country and I'd alas

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Speaker 4: he wanted to, but I had no idea how to

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Speaker 4: do it, and he kind of basically took me under

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Speaker 4: his wing and we started backcountry hunting. And I think,

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Speaker 4: you know, you've you've hunted with enough people different folks

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Speaker 4: that I think finding a hunting partner is definitely harder

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Speaker 4: than finding olk. Oh yeah, definitely, you know, and to

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Speaker 4: be with somebody that you can be along with for

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Speaker 4: twelve thirteen days and get along with them, and you know,

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Speaker 4: we just we just gel really good. We understand exactly

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Speaker 4: what our wants and needs are out of each other

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Speaker 4: and out of a hunt, and we hunt primarily back

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Speaker 4: country stuff. So but it's not you know, there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of different versions of it. So our typicals, you know,

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Speaker 4: two to three days into areas and I feel like

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Speaker 4: two to three days we should kill something or we

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Speaker 4: need to move, and if it's good and we still

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Speaker 4: haven't connected, when then we're usually making that two days

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Speaker 4: or a trip out and grabbing enough more gear of

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Speaker 4: food for two to three more days.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 4: You know, I don't want to be anchored down. I've

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Speaker 4: never wanted to put up a wall tent. I want

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Speaker 4: to be as much mobile as possible. So that's kind

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Speaker 4: of our version of a back country hunts. You know,

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Speaker 4: it's you know, anywhere from two miles in to eight

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Speaker 4: miles in. We're we're pretty realistic. We're getting old. We're

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Speaker 4: both fifty five years old. The hills are getting steeper

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Speaker 4: every year, so it's it's tough to hunt that way,

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Speaker 4: but I enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: What do you do in the off season to keep

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Speaker 1: in shape? You like to do a lot of trail running, right.

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Speaker 3: Do a lot of trail running.

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Speaker 4: And you know that helps too because I'm on the

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Speaker 4: road a lot during the winters, you know, eating bad

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Speaker 4: food and sleeping bad, you know, sleeping in hotels, never

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Speaker 4: really getting a lot of sleep, and so trying to

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Speaker 4: keep active. So and what's cool about trail running is,

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Speaker 4: you know there's good apps like I do all trails,

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Speaker 4: and so I can just type in, say I'm in

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Speaker 4: Boise area, my trails nil near me, and there's all

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Speaker 4: kinds of trails, biking trails and hiking trails, and so

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Speaker 4: they'll just go out and do a two to five

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Speaker 4: mile mountain trail run.

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Speaker 3: And so that's kind of kind of fun.

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Speaker 2: While you're on the road. Yeah, yeah, that'd be probably

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Speaker 2: really helpful.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of cool, like I got strawa so you

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Speaker 4: can track what you know you're doing and your friends

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Speaker 4: can see it and they're like, man, this is this

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Speaker 4: guy's running in Bend, Oregon, and then he's over in Boise,

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Speaker 4: Idaho running, and he's he's down in Wyoming running. What's

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Speaker 4: this guy do for work? He's always on vacation or

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Speaker 4: something living. Yeah, so it's kind of neat to do

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Speaker 4: that and it's fun. So, yeah, I do a little

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Speaker 4: bit of trail running.

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Speaker 3: I don't. There was a time there I kind of got.

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Speaker 4: Into the gym thing and going to the gym and yeah,

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Speaker 4: I like cardio.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, what do you do? Usually? I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't start until right now, here are the beginning

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Speaker 1: of June. So I start in June. I start hiking

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Speaker 1: the hills around the boys here. I live in the

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Speaker 1: Boise area. There's a bunch of great trails in the

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Speaker 1: Boise foothills. I mean, you want to hike, you want

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Speaker 1: to bike, you want to run, whatever, There's no running

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Speaker 1: for me. I'm I have some lower back issues where

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Speaker 1: running just kills me. From my previous career back in

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Speaker 1: the old days, back when I was a tire guy.

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Speaker 1: But but that was part of your job.

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Speaker 3: That was running.

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Speaker 2: That was my job was to run every day on

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Speaker 2: concrete for twelve hours a day.

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Speaker 3: It was.

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Speaker 2: It was brilliant. You know, it's pretty good shape back

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Speaker 2: from there. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was pretty pretty good shape back then, except for

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Speaker 1: all my aches and pains. And I felt like a

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Speaker 1: truck run over a truck run over me every day. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then on the weekends and my time off, it

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Speaker 1: was it was tough. I feel I think I feel

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Speaker 1: better now than I did in my thirties as far

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Speaker 1: as aches and pains go. But I'm a little heavier too.

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Speaker 1: I'm a little bit fatter. And so in June then

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Speaker 1: I'm fifty. I just took fifty.

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Speaker 4: So I'm fifty five and I don't know what fifty

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Speaker 4: five is supposed to feel like, but it hurts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And so I've been I've been really laxed.

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Speaker 4: I've been you know, I run, I see, I feel

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Speaker 4: like I stay in shape enough. But for some reason,

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Speaker 4: it's just I hit a It's changed. And so now

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Speaker 4: I'm happened to be more diet Yeah, differently than what

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Speaker 4: it was before.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, inflammation comes from your diet big time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And they say you.

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Speaker 1: Can't outwork a at work a bad diet which is

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Speaker 1: in your in your twenties and thirties, I'd.

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Speaker 3: Argue, I'd argue with I'd argue because I but really

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Speaker 3: bad and I was really really into the hardcore running

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Speaker 3: and doing lots of lots of miles, ate everything, drink everything,

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Speaker 3: and it was good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you just burn it up. But man, now it's

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Speaker 2: it catches up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it catches up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, same thing.

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Speaker 1: I eat like an a hole a lot of the

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Speaker 1: year and then right now I'm I'm on the carnivore diet.

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Speaker 1: You know, I gotta drop some pounds before September and

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Speaker 1: you know, back to the you know, hiking those hills.

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Speaker 1: I will go to the gym, lift some weights I'd

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Speaker 1: like to get. I like to do a dumbbell workhouse

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Speaker 1: to get my shoulders strong, you know, just build strength

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Speaker 1: that way you can grab those quarters, pick them up,

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Speaker 1: lug them around.

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Speaker 2: You know. I've always been pretty strong anyway, but it's good.

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Speaker 1: Like as I age, I don't have that superhuman strength

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Speaker 1: I had when I was younger, you know, and I

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Speaker 1: was in my thirties. Now I don't have a physical job,

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Speaker 1: so I'm not as strong. So I got to I

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Speaker 1: get to keep keep some some strength training in there

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Speaker 1: to to be able to let log those quarters around

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Speaker 1: and also even to us walking around with your day pack.

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Speaker 1: You know, a day pack can be anywhere from ten

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Speaker 1: to twenty five pounds, depending on where you're at, what

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Speaker 1: you're doing. And my shoulders will get really sore if

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Speaker 1: I haven't done any kind of they'll get fatigued, if

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Speaker 1: I haven't done any short workouts.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the shoulders burn just having a pack on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The other thing that I've noticed, like running, my cardio

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Speaker 4: is really good, but still like we went shed hunting

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Speaker 4: and we did some bear hunts and like say, only

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty five pounds pack on, nothing big, but putting

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Speaker 4: boots on and actually hiking hills instead of running hills.

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Speaker 4: I was sore, like big time. My shin's hurt, back hurts,

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Speaker 4: And so I've got it about now is probably where

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Speaker 4: I need to start introducing a little bit more hikes

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Speaker 4: into my workout system. Its that it just runs, because

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Speaker 4: it definitely takes different ligaments muscles than keeping that momentum

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Speaker 4: of a run. So you're you're doing things a lot slower.

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Speaker 1: A lot more stabilization muscles are used all this and

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Speaker 1: that's a good thing with trail running.

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Speaker 4: Like my ankles as they feel really super strong from

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Speaker 4: trail runs, so I don't I don't roll ankles very often.

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Speaker 3: Never really.

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Speaker 1: I should do some light running just to kind of

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Speaker 1: help my ankles because my ankles are I got a

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Speaker 1: bad ankle I had surgery on.

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Speaker 2: In December of twenty two.

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Speaker 1: But I need to and it's feeling really good now,

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Speaker 1: but it'd be it never can hurt to have stronger ankles. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I probably I probably should work on my

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Speaker 1: fitness and my diet year round, you know, especially now

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Speaker 1: that I'm older. And I could get away with that

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Speaker 1: when I was younger, but nowadays I just can't do it.

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Speaker 2: It catches up to you.

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Speaker 1: Everything, Your metabolism slows down, you know, just harder to

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Speaker 1: get off the couch. And yeah, I need I need to.

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Speaker 1: I need to now that in my fifties, Now that

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Speaker 1: I'm fifty, I need to. I need to like reevaluate

255
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Speaker 1: and start doing things different. Yeah what's that your next?

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Speaker 2: That song?

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Speaker 1: My next thirty years? You know, I'm gonna start doing

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Speaker 1: some things a little differently. So yeah, that way can

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Speaker 1: have some honey in my in my sixties and seventies

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Speaker 1: and enjoy them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so that's yeah, that's kind of my elk hunting.

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Speaker 2: You know, are you spot in stock? Are you call heavy?

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Speaker 3: I'm a call heavy.

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Speaker 4: I've killed one, well one elk silent. And it was

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Speaker 4: the hardest thing I could do not to rip out

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Speaker 4: a bugle because the bulls.

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Speaker 3: Just streaming and I can't see him.

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Speaker 4: He's just over the edge, and I'm just like, I

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Speaker 4: know if I call, he'll come over here.

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Speaker 3: And it was just like pulling teeth not to call.

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Speaker 3: But it worked out.

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Speaker 4: And uh, because I had I had a cow out

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Speaker 4: in front of me and and I had another bull

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Speaker 4: coming up to that cow, and all I could see

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Speaker 4: was just time.

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Speaker 3: And then as soon as he.

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Speaker 4: Just busted out of there, and I thought, well, two things,

278
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Speaker 4: either that bull's coming or they winded me. So I

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Speaker 4: went to full draw, took two steps up the hill

280
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Speaker 4: and all here is glunks. Here he comes, walked right

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Speaker 4: up to that cow twenty yards and smoked him. So

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Speaker 4: he had no idea was there. And that's the that's

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Speaker 4: the problem with calling, is it's like they know you're there.

284
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Speaker 4: You're giving it up right.

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Speaker 1: I just love calling, Yes, but it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: poker game, chess match, whatever. You can't show your cards,

287
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Speaker 1: can't move your your your pieces until at the right moment,

288
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Speaker 1: and sometimes, like you said, that, the right moment never

289
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Speaker 1: came for you to call.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and that's the thing I kept pulling.

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Speaker 4: I think I could, and then that you know, and

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Speaker 4: then you do, and then it doesn't work out, and

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Speaker 4: you're like, so, I've had a lot of times where

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Speaker 4: it's like there's probably times I should have just shut

295
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:52,080
Speaker 4: up and I and I didn't, which is fine, you know,

296
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Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know. We hunt, We hunt hard

297
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Speaker 4: and long, and we we have access to time to hunt,

298
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Speaker 4: which is good. So I'm willing to booger some stuff up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah I'm not.

300
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,480
Speaker 4: I'm not worried that that was my one opportunity. I

301
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,319
Speaker 4: feel like I can get a few more opportunities because

302
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Speaker 4: of the way we hunt and and calling I think

303
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:13,080
Speaker 4: offers more.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: I think that that's the things that sucks is when

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Speaker 3: the OLP don't talk back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the that's the hard part because I.

308
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Speaker 4: Get used to nothing but answers, and so you know,

309
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Speaker 4: you'll be you know, working down into some some areas

310
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Speaker 4: and you're doing some some calls and nothing answers, and

311
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Speaker 4: then you walk fifty yards and blow elk out and

312
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Speaker 4: you're like, why why didn't he just say something?

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Speaker 1: And sometimes in primetime, you know that third week of September,

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Speaker 1: it's like there's got to be bold and that. I mean,

315
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Speaker 1: they're hearing me, they're just tight.

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Speaker 3: Lip and he's just like, Oh, I'm just gonna stand

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Speaker 3: here and wait till you come down here.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, such as the life of elk calling, it can

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Speaker 1: be really awesome or really terrible.

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Speaker 2: I guess that's where you have to be able to pivot.

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Speaker 1: Like if you're in country where you can spot them

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Speaker 1: and then like you get on them, that's good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So this year is gonna be going to be that

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00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,440
Speaker 4: because the tag I drew is definitely in country that

327
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Speaker 4: I'm not used to hunting, So it's gonna be glass

328
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Speaker 4: and spotting stalking. I'm kind of nervous on that because

329
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Speaker 4: I'm not real stealthy, patient kind of hunter.

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Speaker 2: I'm not either either.

331
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Speaker 4: I stumble on a blade of grass, so I'm sure

332
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Speaker 4: I'm gonna roll rocks and be loud and so stalking

333
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,280
Speaker 4: is going to be tough, but we'll see, it'll be fun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, get it done.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a new way to do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I know in times where I've like stalked in on bugles,

338
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:59,320
Speaker 1: my my anticipation is through the roof, Like I almost

339
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,360
Speaker 1: psyched myself out with like excitement. I mean, it is

340
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:06,160
Speaker 1: an exciting way to do it, just like anticipating the opportunity.

341
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:07,880
Speaker 2: But also I.

342
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,640
Speaker 1: Love the interaction with ELK when you call him, and

343
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,080
Speaker 1: that's it's funner yet so I can see both.

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00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:16,840
Speaker 3: More.

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00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:21,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely they are the lesser species.

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00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:21,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

347
00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,040
Speaker 1: I mean some people like Ryan Lampers might argue with

348
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,000
Speaker 1: you and laugh in your face if you said that,

349
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:27,080
Speaker 1: but it's okay.

350
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:28,680
Speaker 2: I mean he's entitled to that opinion.

351
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,240
Speaker 3: But he's not a good ELK caller.

352
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:31,080
Speaker 2: But he's not a good.

353
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:36,160
Speaker 1: ELK caller, but he's a great ELK killer. Yes, he

354
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:40,560
Speaker 1: can call good enough to get it done. But h reason,

355
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:42,840
Speaker 1: the big reason I want to talk to you today

356
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,760
Speaker 1: is because man, it seems like if you get on Facebook,

357
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,280
Speaker 1: you get on Instagram, you get on social media or

358
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,520
Speaker 1: any forums, no matter where you're at, there's there's a

359
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,400
Speaker 1: lot of people reaching out asking questions to other people

360
00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,920
Speaker 1: about Hey, I'm trying to dial in the perfect elk arrow,

361
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,840
Speaker 1: you know, and they're staying their setups and my drawing

362
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,520
Speaker 1: and my bow, my boat, my draw weight and la

363
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:08,520
Speaker 1: la la, and I want to do this, and you

364
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,640
Speaker 1: know this is the arrow I have? Is this good enough?

365
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:11,320
Speaker 2: Man?

366
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:16,560
Speaker 1: There's so much information out there on both sides. One

367
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:18,920
Speaker 1: one camp says you have to shoot an eight hundred

368
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,760
Speaker 1: grain arrow, one camp says you have to shoot a

369
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,800
Speaker 1: four hundred grain arrows Well, you know, there's all these

370
00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,880
Speaker 1: differences of opinion on what the perfect elk.

371
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:33,200
Speaker 3: Hunting arrow is, a perfect amount of foc front of center,

372
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:34,080
Speaker 3: front of center.

373
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,080
Speaker 2: Wait, wait if you didn't know what that is.

374
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,080
Speaker 4: So I get the calls too, because I do a

375
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,520
Speaker 4: lot of customer service calls too. So everybody across the

376
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 4: country who calls Black Eagle a good chance I'm going

377
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:45,720
Speaker 4: to be answering the phone, and so a lot of

378
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:46,680
Speaker 4: can I.

379
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,200
Speaker 2: Just call in and like mess with you? Yeah, Hello,

380
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:51,840
Speaker 2: I have a problem.

381
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,320
Speaker 4: I have a transfer button, so I usually transfer somebody

382
00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:02,360
Speaker 4: with weird, somebody with some more experience me or patients.

383
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:08,439
Speaker 4: But but yeah, so I think I personally feel, you know,

384
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,560
Speaker 4: shooting enough elk seeing some differences.

385
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:13,560
Speaker 3: I've went down that road.

386
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,159
Speaker 4: I went to the real heavy, and I tell people

387
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,680
Speaker 4: I've killed them with three hundred and seventy greets. So

388
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,480
Speaker 4: I've killed them with five hundred and seventy and I'll

389
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,760
Speaker 4: and everything in between, and not one elk died any

390
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:24,600
Speaker 4: deader than the other.

391
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,600
Speaker 3: But I know I'll never shoot that heavy again.

392
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:28,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

393
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,199
Speaker 4: And the main reason on that is I don't have

394
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,800
Speaker 4: the draw length or the poundage to push that heavy

395
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,560
Speaker 4: and narrow at a speed that I want, and which

396
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,800
Speaker 4: that speed is that two eighty to ninety mark. And

397
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,639
Speaker 4: there's some people that still can't even get to that

398
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,320
Speaker 4: just because of their limits on draw links or or poundage.

399
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's back, let's before we go further. Why

400
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,880
Speaker 1: is that to eighty to two ninety? Yeah, So speed's important.

401
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 4: The big thing on that is if you were to

402
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 4: measure or look at a site tape, measure your gap

403
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,119
Speaker 4: from twenty to sixty, if you were to shoot a

404
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,360
Speaker 4: speed of two sixty versus two eighty, and you look

405
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,160
Speaker 4: at the gap difference from that twenty to sixty, that

406
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,000
Speaker 4: that pen gap shrinks a lot when you go from

407
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 4: two eighty to three hundred, that twenty to sixty gap

408
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,600
Speaker 4: barely changes, so at some point there's no much not

409
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,399
Speaker 4: much more return in my gapping of my pins of

410
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:34,680
Speaker 4: getting any tighter. And then most of us, especially still

411
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,120
Speaker 4: out west, are shooting a fixed head, and so once

412
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,719
Speaker 4: you start getting into that three hundred feet per second,

413
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,359
Speaker 4: the boat can become finicky when we start putting steering

414
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,240
Speaker 4: devices on the front of it. So it still stays

415
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,239
Speaker 4: in a very tunable state, very shootable state. In that

416
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,080
Speaker 4: two eighty two ninety markets it's very forgiving still, and

417
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,800
Speaker 4: I'm not going to gain anything more in my pin

418
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,679
Speaker 4: gap of shrinking. So that's kind of where everybody just

419
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 4: settles into that magic area. So if I'm shooting a

420
00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 4: bow that's going to be sixty three pounds, I look

421
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,960
Speaker 4: at my IBO rating of that bow, I'll probably shoot it.

422
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 4: Go ahead and shoot a random arrow through the graph.

423
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:20,560
Speaker 3: And see where I'm at.

424
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,160
Speaker 4: And I know that every thirty grains is ten feet,

425
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 4: So if I shoot a four to fifty graine arrow

426
00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,160
Speaker 4: through the graph at two seventy, I know I need

427
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,800
Speaker 4: to gain ten feet, So I need to shove or

428
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 4: take thirty grains off of that arrow. So I want

429
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:35,720
Speaker 4: to try and build an arrow around four to twenty

430
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:37,080
Speaker 4: to get to me too eighty.

431
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:38,919
Speaker 2: Do I mess with your poundage or your bow at

432
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 2: all a little.

433
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,240
Speaker 4: Bit, because that's you know, I want to be comfortable,

434
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,680
Speaker 4: I want to aim good at that I'll make everything

435
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 4: else work. And this is the beautiful thing from back

436
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 4: in the day where we didn't have arrow choices, and

437
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 4: so poundage was the only way we could gain speed

438
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 4: overdraws were the only way we could shorten an arrow

439
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,320
Speaker 4: up to make it lighter. So we've seen a lot

440
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,399
Speaker 4: of ninety pound bows back in the day, and they

441
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 4: didn't have any letoff and twenty five inches arrows, and

442
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,879
Speaker 4: we didn't have the tunability of a bow now. But now,

443
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 4: I mean, there's so many arrows that we can pick

444
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 4: an arrow to come into the weight that we want

445
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 4: to shoot the speeds that we need to shoot. So

446
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 4: and that's kind of how I'll base everything as far

447
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 4: as foc goes. If I say, I say, but the

448
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 4: arrow build for this year is going to be you know,

449
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 4: four hundred and twenty to four hundred and thirty, and

450
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 4: then I'll start looking through our catalog of arrows and

451
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,200
Speaker 4: I'll it gets a little bit tricky because of FOC

452
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:44,680
Speaker 4: does change the spine.

453
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 3: It weakens up a spine.

454
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 4: So depending on how much tip weight you're going to

455
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 4: run to make sure you're going to stay in a spine.

456
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 4: So if I know that the arrows that I'm looking at,

457
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 4: I can still keep into us, say a three point fifty,

458
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 4: I'll look at the arrows, the two arrows that I'm

459
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:01,959
Speaker 4: come down to, if they're both gonna come in at

460
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 4: four twenty four to twenty five, but one arrow has

461
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 4: one hundred and sixty grains in the nose and the

462
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 4: other one has one hundred and twenty in the nose,

463
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 4: I'm gonna take the one hundred and twenty or one hundred

464
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 4: and sixty grains. I'm gonna take that more FOC on

465
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 4: that arrow that's gonna weigh the same as the other one.

466
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 4: So I'll always take FOC if I can get it,

467
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,199
Speaker 4: But I don't base everything off of that.

468
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 3: I'm still basing everything on my overall weight of an arrow.

469
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 3: So so it's say a.

470
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 4: Spartan arrow versus a rampage. A rampage is gonna have

471
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,919
Speaker 4: fifty six grain half out and a Spartan has a

472
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 4: twenty six grain insert.

473
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 3: So right there, there's thirty grains difference.

474
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 4: And if that arrow, because of this, the build on

475
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 4: those overall weight is within five.

476
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 3: Ten grains of each other. I'm gonna take the one

477
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 3: with the.

478
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 2: More foc Yeah.

479
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,959
Speaker 4: So, and I think, you know, I think another thing

480
00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 4: about people think come out west and shooting elk or

481
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 4: shooting moose. You know, they need a bigger, heavier system.

482
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 4: And I think the opposite on it, because I look

483
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 4: at it as a target, and it's a stationary target.

484
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 4: You take a lighter target, a light hoofed animal or

485
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 4: a bag target that's hanging. It absorbs all the energy

486
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 4: and so your penetration goes down. You take a cedar

487
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 4: bail or you know, put a bag target against the wall,

488
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 4: the arrow keeps driving through that.

489
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,880
Speaker 3: And so you take an elk or a moose, they

490
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 3: kind of stand there.

491
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 4: Well, every comes some wind again that you know, that

492
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 4: target stands there, and so that penetration gets better as

493
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:41,360
Speaker 4: the bigger the animal.

494
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 3: In my opinion, that makes sense.

495
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a more stationary, solid target you're shooting into.

496
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: There's it doesn't give yep.

497
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's not absorbing the you know, And that's

498
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 4: why a lot of white tails, especially the ones that

499
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 4: look up the tree, usually that arrow doesn't get through

500
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 4: that animal. But when that animals relax and has no

501
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 4: idea about the reaction time of that shot happening, you

502
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 4: can usually blow through a white tail at fifty pounds,

503
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 4: no problem. I've shot through a lot of the white

504
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 4: tails here at fifty two pounds, right. So but when

505
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 4: they're looking at you, you're you're probably gonna lose a

506
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 4: little bit of energy there because they're pretty fast.

507
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny. I've I kind of stumbled onto that

508
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 1: same idea on my own through trials and tribulations over

509
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: the years, mostly regarding pit gap, right. I don't want

510
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 1: these great, big pin gaps. Reason being, if you misjudge

511
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: your yardage by three to five yards, when you have

512
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: a huge pin gap, you're gonna miss or hit somewhere

513
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: you don't want to hit.

514
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,120
Speaker 4: And that's what happened when I shot that big, heavy arrow,

515
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 4: and I you know, I don't know when the last

516
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,679
Speaker 4: I've shot over forty yards, so I'm not a distant shooter.

517
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 4: And that's where it really opened my eyes because I'm

518
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 4: like Okay, here's the bull. He's stepping out. It's forty.

519
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 4: Put forty on him, let it go, and I hit

520
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 4: at forty. It was forty two yards I shot him

521
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 4: for and I was five six inches below where my

522
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 4: pin was, and I was I was actually praying that

523
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 4: I was going to miss him because it was going

524
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 4: so low. Ended up leaving the bowl overnight, you know,

525
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 4: came back and found him.

526
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 3: You know he was dead.

527
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 4: But it was like, man, I can't I can't be

528
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 4: worrying about two to three yards at forty and under, yes,

529
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 4: and the other thing talking about a pin gap for me,

530
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 4: I should a two pin that I can move my

531
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 4: two pins gap wise. It's not a stationary this is

532
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 4: what it is. And I set it for twenty to

533
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 4: forty and on an Elk's cavity at fifty yards is

534
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 4: back to belly. So if I'm at full draw, Elk

535
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 4: comes in, boogers up, runs out there, stops, looks it

536
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 4: back at me. If my pins are still inside of

537
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 4: his chest cavity, he's under fifty yards, and I know

538
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 4: what my hold is. If my pins are above and

539
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 4: below him, he's over fifty, I'm gonna let down. So

540
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 4: it kind of gives me a quick in didn't good

541
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 4: range finding ability keeps my sight pitcher clean, And like

542
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 4: I said, I just I don't feel the need to

543
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 4: have to shoot and push the envelope on some further shots.

544
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it sounds like you like to keep your

545
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: shots fortying in fortying under. So you know, with all

546
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: the hype these days guys, you know, practicing long distances

547
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,479
Speaker 1: and wanting to shoot an elk at seventy yards and

548
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: what's your opinion on them?

549
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 4: I don't try to have an opinion on it, because

550
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 4: it's a moral issue that you battle with your own self, right,

551
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 4: And I alwasy tell people if you question yourself and

552
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 4: you lose that animal, I hope you beat yourself up.

553
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 4: But because you're going to still the possibilities of losing

554
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 4: an animal at twenty yard shot is still going to

555
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 4: be there. So I have a hard time saying it's

556
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 4: because of that distance, right, But when I take a

557
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 4: twenty yard shot, there's never a doubt. And if there's

558
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 4: a doubt in my mind, that's the thing that you

559
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 4: got to live into, the little voice in your in

560
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 4: your head. I do think that some people can get

561
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 4: some false hope because shooting some targets, the target's not moving,

562
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 4: You're you're not under stress.

563
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: I've I've seen that a lot of these ELK training

564
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: camps have gone to you know, in the questionaire when

565
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 1: you sign up, what's your.

566
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,919
Speaker 3: What disisgust with Dan and watch him do that?

567
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 4: Get a heart rate improved and watch people watch you

568
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 4: put a little bit of pressure on you.

569
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 3: And these guys have a hard time hitting that dot.

570
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: Yeah you got you got thirty people looking at you

571
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: and you said fifty yards. It's damn tough for them

572
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: to even hit the target.

573
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: Let alone.

574
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 3: It's the same thing as a steel target. You put

575
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 3: the steel target out there.

576
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 4: Also in the stress level changes because I got it,

577
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 4: you know, so, I mean that's hunting. I mean yeah,

578
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 4: So I try not to, Like I say, it's a

579
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 4: moral thing that you've got a battle with yourself. I

580
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 4: just feel like at where I am in my life,

581
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 4: like I don't need to push to the envelope. I

582
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 4: feel confident that I'm going to get opportunities and it's

583
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 4: not the end of the world if I don't kill

584
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 4: an elk. Honestly, I love being in the woods. I

585
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 4: love sunsets, I love the sunrises. I love the thunderstorms.

586
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 4: I love everything about September that I get enough enjoyment

587
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 4: out of that that the taking of the animals the bonus.

588
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 4: But it's not for me, unfortunately, I guess. I guess

589
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 4: it's unfortunate. Maybe it's fortunate.

590
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 3: I don't know. But it's not like the determining factor

591
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 3: of whether or.

592
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 2: Not that you had fun. Yeah, yeah, so no, I

593
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 2: get that. I love that. Yeah.

594
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: It is a it is a morality thing, and you're

595
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: not here to be the moral morality police, not either.

596
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 2: No, And I'd like to talk about it.

597
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: To like, you know, I think more informed people, you know,

598
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: can start quite I feel like it's very important to

599
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: question yourself. I know, I'm my own worst critic, and

600
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: I love that how you said, if if you doubted

601
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: the shot and then you make a bad shot, you

602
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: better beat yourself up, right.

603
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 3: Don't normalize it. That's the big thing.

604
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 4: And you know, we start to see more more of

605
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 4: this stuff being filmed or talked about, you know, and

606
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 4: a run in an archery shot for years. My struggle

607
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 4: with it is I feel like people are are being

608
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,959
Speaker 4: more okay with losing animals, and I think that's terrible.

609
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 4: I think that's wrong.

610
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that, So I'm not okay with it.

611
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: That's why I try to keep my shots.

612
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I know people and I did it. I've

613
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 4: lost animals. And I look at it and I say,

614
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 4: you know, it was a fatal hit. I'm punching my tag. Yes,

615
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 4: And I don't judge people for not doing it. Like

616
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 4: I said, I these are all things that you have

617
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 4: to deal with yourself. But looking at it as a

618
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 4: whole of us as hunters, I don't think we should

619
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 4: ever normalize it.

620
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. What's your take on this is kind

621
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: off the topic arrows, but you know, people normalize and stuff.

622
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: What's your take on the on people just being crappy

623
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: to each other on social and all these all these

624
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: little little TIFFs and people getting these arguments on social media,

625
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: and and uh, there's a like arguments absolutely horribly.

626
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 2: You know.

627
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 4: I'm not a crossbow guy, and you see a lot

628
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 4: of it on crossbow stuff. I seen one particular person

629
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 4: say something about I don't even know if I want

630
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 4: to say it. It was it was so bad, you know,

631
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 4: and it was a pretty prominent person, and I'm.

632
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 3: Thinking that's just horrible. Because you don't know the limitations

633
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 3: of anybody else. And it's the same thing.

634
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 4: We go back into the moral thing, right, you know,

635
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 4: why am I going to determine whether or not you

636
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 4: want to shoot sixty yards? Why are why are you

637
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 4: determined whether or not I shoot? Shooting and expandable? You know,

638
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 4: it's just you know, there's there's all these things, and

639
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 4: we've got enough people and coming. The big thing for

640
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 4: me is coming from a state such as Oregon and

641
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 4: Washington where we watched hunters fight against hunters and we

642
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 4: lost baron cougar hunting, we lost running hounds, we lost

643
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 4: baiting because the hunters couldn't unite to each other. And

644
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 4: so when things went to a vote, because you're doing

645
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 4: something that I didn't approve on, so I'm going to

646
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 4: tell you no.

647
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 3: And I look at that and I'm like, this is

648
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 3: the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. Absolutely, if you

649
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 3: don't want to hunt with a crossbow, don't do it.

650
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 3: I've never seen anybody else's equipment ever screw up any

651
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 3: of my hunts. I was like, man, I would have

652
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:41,719
Speaker 3: killed a note, but there was a guy out there

653
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 3: hunting with a crossbow. From crying out loud. You know,

654
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 3: it just makes no sense.

655
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 2: To make no sense.

656
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 4: So so yeah, so I'm watching hunters fight against hunters

657
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 4: and watching watching us lose our rights to hunt. That's why,

658
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 4: the biggest reason why I am so against people treating

659
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 4: other hunters that way. It's pretty simple. Turn the channel,

660
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 4: you know, if you don't watch the program that's on TV,

661
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 4: turn the channel. Yeah, if you don't want to hunt

662
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 4: the way that the person is hunting.

663
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 3: It's okay, it's fine.

664
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't have to. Nobody's saying you had to.

665
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 3: No.

666
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's say if it's legal, that's the thing. If

667
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: it's legal, the state's determined it's legal. Yeah, then let

668
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: them do it. Someone wants to do it, let's go

669
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: right ahead.

670
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 4: And there's a lot of things. You know, we're older too,

671
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 4: and you know, back in the day, what I thought

672
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 4: was dumb, and now I've done I'm like, it's actually

673
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 4: kind of fun. You know, for me hunting out of

674
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 4: a tree, I thought, god, I could never do it.

675
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 4: And I look forward to hunting white tailed dos in

676
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 4: you know, in October, November whatever time that you know,

677
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 4: that late season.

678
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 3: I enjoy it. It's kind of fun. It's a different hunt.

679
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: It's relaxing, it's fun to watch animal behavior. I love

680
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: watching deer.

681
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 3: But back in my earlier days, I man, I couldn't

682
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 3: do it.

683
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's stupid. They should outlaw that. Yeah. Yeah.

684
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: My good friend Bradley, you know, he runs hound dogs

685
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: and he doesn't run baits. He has, but he doesn't

686
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: run baits anymore. But he's not against him and by

687
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: all means, if other people want a bait, he supports it.

688
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: He's like, I'll stand there right with him and I

689
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: will fight for them to have baits.

690
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I hope they fight for me to have

691
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 2: dogs dogs. You know.

692
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 4: Well that's the thing too with like even you know,

693
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 4: like going back to dogs, like you know, looking back

694
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 4: and saying I don't understand it because I.

695
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 3: Don't do it or whatever.

696
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 4: But when you really get to know some of those guys,

697
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 4: it's just the same thing for me. Like I said

698
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 4: of like I love the thunderstorms, I love the sunsets,

699
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 4: I love the smoke in the air of of what

700
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 4: colors it will turn in September. And a hounsman loves

701
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 4: watching his dogs work, And same thing with a duck hutter,

702
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 4: you know, they they love the animal side of the

703
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 4: dogs working and the calling of the duck. You know,

704
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 4: it's not you know, there's so there's other reasons why

705
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 4: people hunt.

706
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, do I want to get up at three am

707
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: and go set up decoys?

708
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 2: It's not really for me.

709
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 3: I did it for a while and I was like,

710
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 3: this sucks. I can't I can't even unbutton my pants

711
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 3: that go to the bathroom. My hands are so so numb.

712
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 3: It was like all to shoot a duck that I

713
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 3: didn't really enjoy eating. And but also what I had

714
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 3: a dog back then, and so I did watch like

715
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 3: watching my dog work.

716
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, the dog loved it. Yeah, my bulldog doesn't. Yeah,

717
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 1: she's not a duck retreating. No, probably don't swim a lot.

718
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: You know, she sinks she's a bolder. So what I'm

719
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: hearing is we're looking for speed, we're looking for pin gap,

720
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: and we were prioritizing that over araw weight.

721
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,959
Speaker 3: Well no airrowweight. Yeah, I mean as far as going

722
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:12,479
Speaker 3: over the board.

723
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, like like saying, oh I need X amount of

724
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 4: I need another and arrow.

725
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 2: No.

726
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 4: I if my five hundred grain arrow shoots to eighty,

727
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 4: then That's what I'm gonna shoot. But if my four

728
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 4: hundred and twenty grain arrow shoots to eighty. That's what

729
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 4: I'm building. I'm not gonna build for the momentum thing.

730
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 4: And my feelings on the momentum thing is momentum really

731
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 4: doesn't start to take a place until a distance. And

732
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 4: I don't know really what that distance is, but I

733
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 4: don't believe it's at forty yards and under right, right,

734
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 4: And I think you can see that especially in ballistics

735
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 4: of a gun, you know, and yes, it makes a difference,

736
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 4: and you're shooting, you know, five hundred yards and you're

737
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 4: seeing a light bullet die off versus a heavy bullet

738
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 4: holding some more energy at five hundred yards type of thing.

739
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 4: We're talking realistically forty yards and under as an average shot,

740
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 4: So don't I don't think momentum has come into play.

741
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 4: And when you look at the calculations like on an app,

742
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 4: like I was just showing a guy here and changing

743
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 4: the arroweight and the speeds, and the momentum went point

744
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 4: five three to point five eight. When there's a decimal

745
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 4: point in front of the number, it's not a very

746
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 4: big number, right, So versus watching kinetic energy change by

747
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 4: you know, three to five foot pounds of kinetic energy.

748
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 4: I just feel like foot pounds of kinetic energy is

749
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 4: better than that decimal point moving.

750
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 1: Right right, So I know, I know, man, it can

751
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: make people crazy, like they're just like frustrated and just like, man,

752
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: I really got to dial this in and it can

753
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 1: be real confusing. So I'm really glad you kind of

754
00:36:59,360 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: cleared that up.

755
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 2: I know.

756
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: And the good thing is is if if you get

757
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: something that's pretty close and you're like, I think, I

758
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: think this is the right way to are and both

759
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: shooting the right pin gap and the right feet per second,

760
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: I think this will work, and like be confident in

761
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: the setup because we're we've been around for a long time,

762
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: thirty plus years bow hunting, back when we didn't weigh arrows,

763
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: we didn't don't even know what FOC was.

764
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 2: Yep, we I shot. I used to.

765
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 1: Shoot twenty six inch arrows with an overdraw with an

766
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: eighty pound bow back in the eighties, right, And I

767
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 1: don't know how fast it went.

768
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 2: But it it It.

769
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: Went pretty fast, it seemed like and it sounded like

770
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: a thirty thirty going off when you shoot, you know,

771
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: it's pretty loud, but you know those arrows penetrated good

772
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 1: you know, I had some path through.

773
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 4: And that being said too, a lot of what we're

774
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 4: talking about is what I consider being on the ground,

775
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 4: because speed doesn't really When you go into a tree,

776
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 4: it changes. Your distances are fixed. You can usually put

777
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,439
Speaker 4: flags out there or no, you've already ranged the trail. Yeah,

778
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 4: And so you're like, okay, there's a fixed distance. It's

779
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 4: going to be twenty five yards and under heavy arrow

780
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 4: shoot it.

781
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: I don't care.

782
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 4: Not a big deal. But for what we do when

783
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 4: elk or deer are coming in and going, they can

784
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 4: change that distance by two yards three yards very quickly

785
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 4: and not even notice it. And so that pin gap

786
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 4: is more important than you know. If I was shooting

787
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 4: hogs over bait, i'd probably shoot a heavy arrow cut

788
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 4: on contact. You got to shoot down into the target,

789
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:39,879
Speaker 4: so you need to make sure you're getting a little

790
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 4: bit more penetration.

791
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 3: You know that.

792
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 4: It's all good, But for really what we're talking about,

793
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 4: elk hunting, a meal deer hunting.

794
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:49,959
Speaker 2: It's a Western hunting. It's not the same game.

795
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 3: No, So that's kind of how I build mine.

796
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, And some of the arrows

797
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 1: I shot in the past, i'd never even wait them before.

798
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: And then I started doing the math, you know, adding

799
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 1: things up, and before I had an aerow scale, and

800
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, I was, I'm almost embarrassed to say, you know,

801
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: I'm shooting like a four hundred grain arrow, because I

802
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: was embarrassed to say, you know, they killed elk well,

803
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: and they put people have a shamed you to think

804
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,919
Speaker 1: that you're ethical to shoot such a light era right right,

805
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 1: So you know, honestly, you can kill elk with a

806
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 1: lot of good arrow setups. You know, whether you're a

807
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: little heavier, a little lighter. In the end, it's all

808
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 1: about shot placement. Yeah, you have to hit them good,

809
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 1: don't matter how heavi your arrow is.

810
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 4: If you have an idelt spot, you're not going to

811
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 4: kill them. And they're again going you've killed enough animals too,

812
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 4: and your penetration changes. And this is where I don't

813
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 4: think that the information that we have really is still skewed,

814
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 4: because going back to a light animal versus a heavy animal,

815
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 4: an alert animal versus a non alert animal, penetration depths

816
00:39:58,560 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 4: all change.

817
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 2: It's all anecdotal information.

818
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 3: The same thing with blood trails. You know you can.

819
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 4: You can hit one artery and blood squirting everywhere, and

820
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 4: you could just miss that artery. And that air hole

821
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 4: is a half an inch difference from another air hole.

822
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 4: Blood trails are gonna be totally different. And everybody's like, oh,

823
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 4: I'll never use that broad head again.

824
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 3: It didn't bleed.

825
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: It's like, you have to be smart, you're a little

826
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: scientific things for everyone's going to be due.

827
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 4: But what I do know is it's usually pretty quick.

828
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,479
Speaker 4: And so for me, if I don't watch an elk

829
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 4: fall or hear an elk fall, I'm nervous and I'm

830
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 4: going to take my time. I've learned that it's when

831
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 4: it's right, it's right, and it's fast. So if if

832
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 4: I don't hear it or see it, I'm going to

833
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 4: really really slow down because there's no reason to ever

834
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 4: be in a hurry.

835
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree, And then retracing blood. Don't get

836
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: ahead of the evidence, right, that's like a quote from

837
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 1: all CSI, you know, Hal Grisome, like, all right, got

838
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: people start making assumptions, Oh, maybe it this way, maybe

839
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: it went that way.

840
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 2: Hey, don't get ahead of the evidence. Let's stay on

841
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 2: the blood.

842
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: I think one person can like kind of look ahead

843
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: and stuff, but if you get people walking ahead and

844
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: moving around and person you can mess up the blood

845
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: trail if you're having a hard.

846
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 4: Time stepping on a couple of branches here and there,

847
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 4: or leaves, and and you kick the leaf over. Now

848
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,919
Speaker 4: the blood's underneath and you stir them down there where

849
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 4: you're trying to you know, pine needles are the worst.

850
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like picking it up. You're like I had

851
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 1: a leaf one time, like, oh, it's just kind of red.

852
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: And I tasted it and I'm like, I'll taste blood.

853
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: I taste it, like, nope, that's pee. How do you

854
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: know what he tastes. Well, I've smelled olk p and

855
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: it tasted a lot like it smells.

856
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 2: Hey, you know, maybe I should. I don't want to

857
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 2: reveal all my secrets.

858
00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: Oh man, Well, hey, I appreciate you getting on here

859
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: and talking about those arrows. I think sometimes we just,

860
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: you know, everybody, I think a lot of people want

861
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: to put the best foot forward.

862
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 4: We do everyone, and I think everybody's trying to give.

863
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 4: And that's one thing with archers not saying that there's

864
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 4: bad information out there. There's a lot of information out there,

865
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 4: and there's not anybody on purposely trying to steer people

866
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 4: the wrong way, right.

867
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 3: And.

868
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, it's like, man,

869
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 4: you can really overthink it, or you can really go

870
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 4: down a lot of rabbit holes. And I'm pretty pretty

871
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 4: much over the I'm just going to keep it simple

872
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 4: and and I know what works, and it has worked,

873
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 4: and shot placement, putting animals in front of you, I think,

874
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 4: I think if if if I had advice, you know,

875
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 4: people learn spend more time understanding what they're hunting than

876
00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 4: geeking out on gadgets and percentaches and weights and all

877
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 4: this other stuff, because at the end of the day,

878
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 4: if you don't put an animal in front, even none

879
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 4: of it mattered.

880
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I don't think there's enough infhasis on woodsmanship, yep,

881
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: and understanding animals behavior, body language. All of that back

882
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 1: to that point where some people will take a maybe

883
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: a frontal shot not at the right time, or or

884
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: or a longer shot. They're like, well, that was the

885
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: only shot I had. But I've been around long enough

886
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 1: and I have passed enough shots to where I know

887
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,919
Speaker 1: that when you feel like, oh, this is the only

888
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 1: shot I have, then the animal makes a decision and

889
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: keeps coming forward and they present you with a really

890
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: good shot. I've had that more happen a lot of times,

891
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 1: and then sometimes they slip away. But then it's okay

892
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: because I'll hustle over there and keep calling and then

893
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 1: call them back in for a good shot, or maybe

894
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:52,399
Speaker 1: I chase them another day.

895
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you know, kind of going into that frontel thing. Yeah,

896
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,240
Speaker 4: that's a tough talk pick for a lot of folks.

897
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 4: I like it, but I but I also know my

898
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 4: limitations of distance to shoot it, and my thought process

899
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 4: on this is also if I can't hit that size

900
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 4: of a spot that I need to hit there, I've

901
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 4: got a lot more stuff to miss on a broad side,

902
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 4: shut right, Because so if I can't put it where

903
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 4: it needs to be a broadside, if you shoot one

904
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 4: of the guts, it's guaranteed death. So if I shoot

905
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 4: one off to the side on a frontel, it's probably

906
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,720
Speaker 4: a solid bone, not penetration, not into a vital organ

907
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 4: to cause death. But going into that is that's kind

908
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 4: of goes into what broadhead I choose, because like I

909
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 4: shot an milk with an expandable because I've never been

910
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 4: able to do it because I had never allowed it,

911
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 4: and I'm I'm going to do it, and I did

912
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 4: it with a light arrow and light poundage and a

913
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 4: big cut and it worked great. But I'll probably never

914
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 4: shoot it again. And people are like, what do you mean?

915
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 4: It worked great? And then you say you're never going

916
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 4: to shoot it again. It's because I know I'm an

917
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 4: elk caller and eighty percent of the elk I shoot

918
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 4: will probably be coming frontal. And I don't think that

919
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 4: neck hide neck hair on a expandable is a good combination.

920
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 2: That's a lot of hair, that's a lot of high You.

921
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 4: Can't hardly get your knife through it, and that tells

922
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 4: you how much energy is that robbing you to get

923
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 4: in there. So because of that, I'm probably not. But

924
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 4: if I was more of a spot in stock and

925
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 4: like the you know that elk I shot when I

926
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 4: was quiet, Yeah, I shot him perfectly broad sid He

927
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 4: walks right in front of me with not a care

928
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 4: in the world, not even know it, and I shot

929
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 4: him still with a fixed head. But like I said,

930
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 4: it was hard for me to do that. Typically, if

931
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,280
Speaker 4: I was calling that bowl, he would have been coming

932
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,919
Speaker 4: straight on at me at right twenty yards and yep.

933
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 4: So so I think the overall takeaway is shoot black, igile,

934
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 4: shoot black.

935
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and uh.

936
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: You know, get dial in, your your your feet per

937
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: second and you know you get a good hit.

938
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 4: Pit gap, you know all this stuff. Yeah, I was

939
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 4: he like that when guys were like, well I want

940
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 4: a four hundred and fifty not four hundred and twenty.

941
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 4: And I'm like, well, if I shot you with or

942
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 4: without the lighted knock, yeah, it's really is not going

943
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 4: to make any difference, right.

944
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: Right, And and then also, don't yuck other people's yum.

945
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 2: Right. You know, if you're not into it, that's okay.

946
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 2: Let them be into as long as it's legal.

947
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. And if somebody does want to shoot six hundred grain,

948
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 3: seven hundred grein and arrow, that by all means go ahead.

949
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 3: And and I'm not you know, because I don't know

950
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,879
Speaker 3: you know what you're doing and why you're doing it.

951
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 3: As long as you're out there doing it and it

952
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 3: makes you happy. Yeah, I mean, let's.

953
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 4: Let's all get together, because we got enough people fighting

954
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 4: against us, and we've got to we gotta be able

955
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 4: to stand together as hunters and outdoorsmen. This way of

956
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 4: life is questioned every year in my opinion.

957
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's going to become more question. I feel

958
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: like people in urban society are so much further disconnected.

959
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,720
Speaker 2: With with nature and their food sources.

960
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,399
Speaker 1: And and hunting and all that they just don't even

961
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: know they've never been around it. And if you know,

962
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: if we look like a bunch of a holes fighting

963
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: against each other and can't stand together, how are you

964
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:48,720
Speaker 1: to how are we gonna let's arrive?

965
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 3: You know that if they divide the hunters, that's it's

966
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 3: easy way to conquer it. I mean, we see it

967
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 3: in politics.

968
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, Pink Floyd said it all. Yeah, united, we stand.

969
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 1: Divided, divided we fall. Yeah, you know, no, so just yeah,

970
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 1: well thanks for coming on.

971
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 5: Man.

972
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 2: The wind is picking.

973
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 4: Up, and yeah, yesterday the winds came and destroyed our

974
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 4: our hard display our tent got out of all these

975
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 4: tent stars, was the only one somebody.

976
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 3: Was picking on.

977
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 2: Mother Nature didn't like your tent.

978
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 4: I didn't like our tent. So yeah, no, it's been

979
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:29,879
Speaker 4: a good it's been good here though. The weather's been

980
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 4: pretty good. Got a little bit of rain, a little

981
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 4: bit thunder, but for the most part, I'm glad I'm

982
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 4: not shooting because it's been kind of windy.

983
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, did you.

984
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 1: Shoot No, I didn't know. I didn't plan ahead and

985
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,280
Speaker 1: get a shoot card or whatever. Oh yeah I should

986
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: have next year. Next year, Yeah, we'll have to do it.

987
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't shoot it. I didn't have any plans

988
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 3: to shoot.

989
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 4: But I feel like if I do, I want to

990
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 4: make sure that I'm going with the group of guys

991
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 4: that I want to go out with there and and

992
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 4: kind of kind of do what all the other kids

993
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 4: are doing out there, having a little sight bets and

994
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 4: picking on each other.

995
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 3: Absolutely so, absolutely fun. So what do you got next?

996
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 2: Next up? Next time?

997
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: The summer summer fun man putting out trail cams and

998
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: camping and spend time with family and and just enjoy

999
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: and my summertime.

1000
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 3: If you're doing any other tax or not, I.

1001
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 1: Don't think so. Unless you twist my arm and make

1002
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,879
Speaker 1: me go to Utah, I'm gonna go to Utah. I'm

1003
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: gonna do Elk Summit with Ryan Lamperts next weekend. Okay,

1004
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 1: So that's always do a good time.

1005
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 4: If guys have ever get a chance to go out

1006
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 4: through that, it's it's just really cool.

1007
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 2: You've never I've never gone.

1008
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 3: Jason usually goes.

1009
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:35,359
Speaker 2: He asked me.

1010
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: If I could go this year because he can't go

1011
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 1: and I have I have to have a funeral to

1012
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: go to that weekend, so I'm not gonna be able

1013
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: to make it.

1014
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 3: It's a it's a really really cool deal and it's

1015
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 3: and it's it amazes me the repeat customers. Oh, we

1016
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 3: see guys.

1017
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 2: You know, it's a fun experience.

1018
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 3: It is.

1019
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's pretty cool to just it's kind of

1020
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:00,359
Speaker 4: like Dack, you know, you get to go hang out

1021
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 4: with like minded people and it's not all about all

1022
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 4: the other stuff. There's just other things to go hang

1023
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 4: around good people. But Ryan, Ryan has a lot of

1024
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 4: great information and uh and good guest speakers and stuff

1025
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 4: like that, and so it's in it. We've been doing

1026
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 4: it in different locations all the time too, which is

1027
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 4: kind of cool.

1028
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. They always sound like an epic epic locations. You know.

1029
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 2: You got in some good hikes and just beautiful battery.

1030
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 3: There the first time we were over there and on

1031
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 3: the other side of this mountain. Yeah, yeah, we've seen

1032
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 3: like five grizzlies the first night camped out. That was

1033
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 3: crazy hikes, long hikes. I think I'm gonna take my

1034
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 3: trad bow on the three D because he's already going

1035
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 3: I'm going to wear these guys out on this three

1036
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 3: D course. And so I'm like, well, I don't want

1037
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 3: to carry a heavy compound.

1038
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 2: That's smart, that's smart.

1039
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 4: I think Joel Turner and Body, we're gonna we're gonna

1040
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 4: try and shoot traditional.

1041
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you should show body a thing or two about shit.

1042
00:50:56,560 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 3: I will show him how to shoot the track though.

1043
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 2: All right, well, thank you for coming on.

1044
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go find the little boys room about I'm

1045
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,720
Speaker 1: about ready to have a have an accident.

1046
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 2: So when you find you some pine needles, yeah, probably,

1047
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 2: Thanks Corey. Thanks h