Speaker 1: This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast
Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hey everyone, welcome to the Almost Famous Podcast. Today we
Speaker 2: are continuing our countdown to Grant season by interviewing former Bachelor's.
Speaker 2: Today's Bachelor is Ben Higgins.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Wow. We were joking before starting recording that this could
Speaker 2: be the easiest interview that we've ever done here on
Speaker 2: the Almost Famous Podcast, or it could be the hardest time.
Speaker 2: Will tell Ben, are you worried about some of the
Speaker 2: questions that I might ask? Because you know, I do
Speaker 2: ask some scary questions to our guests, and today our
Speaker 2: producers have written questions that I have been curious about,
Speaker 2: but I wasn't sure I was gonna be brave enough
Speaker 2: to ask. But since we're both thinking it, I might
Speaker 2: have to. And I'm gonna blame them for being the
Speaker 2: ones that really put it on paper.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I haven't seen the rundown. I chose not to
Speaker 4: look because I just want I want to be interviewed.
Speaker 4: It's been so long since I've done a deep dive
Speaker 4: into that season that this is exciting for me.
Speaker 3: You don't scare me, so.
Speaker 2: I am the least scary person of all time. We
Speaker 2: all know this everybody.
Speaker 4: Knows me, not to some of the past Bachelor's I
Speaker 4: think exactly scared. Yeah, Ashley, you got me, Like, I
Speaker 4: don't know about this. No, this will be great. I
Speaker 4: cannot wait to reminisce. Here's the only thing I want
Speaker 4: to start with, though, will be Please forgive me if
Speaker 4: I don't remember. That is such a distant part of
Speaker 4: my life. Not in terms of and I've said this
Speaker 4: many times, I'm very grateful for that opportunity. I had
Speaker 4: met some amazing people, but my life has moved on
Speaker 4: so much from then. Not in terms of my disassociation
Speaker 4: with the show. I want to support the show, just
Speaker 4: mostly with tons that there will probably be things that
Speaker 4: I forget and you'll have to maybe remind me, but
Speaker 4: I'll love to speak into it once you remind me.
Speaker 2: So Ben, we'll start off with when did you know
Speaker 2: you were going to be the Bachelor? And I want
Speaker 2: you to say dead truth, like I knew that they
Speaker 2: were gunning for me during Caitlyn season at this point.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd say the first moment that I realized something
Speaker 4: was up. So when we were in the house in
Speaker 4: the mansion, I will say I don't remember many guys
Speaker 4: I don't really remember anybody there that was looking for
Speaker 4: becoming the bachelor. I remember some people talking about it.
Speaker 4: I remember Paradise being brought up, and then I kind
Speaker 4: of remember those conversations never being that existent in our house.
Speaker 4: So it never felt like anybody was there pushing to
Speaker 4: be the lead. It wasn't until San Antonio that I
Speaker 4: started with Yeah, I started to feel like I'm being
Speaker 4: treated a little differently than most here. It was the
Speaker 4: moment when Sean and I were roommates. Yeah, and Caitlin
Speaker 4: snuck into our room, and you know, her and Sean
Speaker 4: had a conversation or whatever they did right next to
Speaker 4: me in the bathroom, and I was very much not
Speaker 4: invited to that party. And in the bathroom, yeah, and
Speaker 4: I left, No, I went to the bathroom.
Speaker 3: I went, well, you went to.
Speaker 2: The bathroom to give them privacy? How long did you
Speaker 2: spend in the bathroom?
Speaker 4: A long time, most of the evening into the wee mornings,
Speaker 4: wee hours of the morning.
Speaker 2: Do you sleep in the tub?
Speaker 3: I sat on the floor. I just I think I
Speaker 3: fell asleep, like.
Speaker 4: I And so that was very early on in the season.
Speaker 4: And I remember leaving the hotel and not being upset
Speaker 4: because it was so early on and I really didn't
Speaker 4: know what I was getting myself into, and I had
Speaker 4: felt very uncomfortable whole time. I remember going to one
Speaker 4: of the producers after they had already asked me if
Speaker 4: Caitlyn came into our room, so I did not out her.
Speaker 4: I want to be clear, I was not the one
Speaker 4: to tell anybody that she was there. This is a
Speaker 4: secret I kept for multiple days. Three days later and
Speaker 4: a producer came to me and said, to Kaitlyn's thinking
Speaker 4: to your room. I said yes. They asked me what happened.
Speaker 4: I explained, I said, you know, the truth of this is,
Speaker 4: I think I want to go home, like if I'm not,
Speaker 4: if I'm just a burden here, then I need to
Speaker 4: go home because I don't want to just be like
Speaker 4: another cog in the wheel and it makes it easier
Speaker 4: for everybody. And I understand where I'm at, in the
Speaker 4: position I'm in.
Speaker 3: I'm just going to go home.
Speaker 4: And they said, let's think of let's talk about it.
Speaker 4: They came back to me that evening and they said,
Speaker 4: we really want you to stay, and Caitlyn wants to
Speaker 4: talk to you. So Caitlyn has this like very friendship
Speaker 4: conversation with me, where she's like.
Speaker 2: You know, on camera.
Speaker 4: It was on camera. It never got showed because they
Speaker 4: never really showed any of that. It would have probably
Speaker 4: ruined the season, right she you know, the producers had
Speaker 4: asked me to keep it quiet, and so I did.
Speaker 4: I didn't tell anybody else, really, I don't think. Maybe
Speaker 4: I told Jared Jard been the only one I would
Speaker 4: have told. But they she has this like very friendly
Speaker 4: conversation with me, like a lot can change before the end,
Speaker 4: and I really want you here, your place of fun
Speaker 4: and comfort and all those things. And I left the conversation.
Speaker 4: I said, if you know what, I'll stay, Like why not?
Speaker 4: This will be fun. I was convinced this could be
Speaker 4: a good experience. I didn't really know what that was
Speaker 4: at the time, but it was, you know, a seed
Speaker 4: in my mind that the show had talked to her
Speaker 4: and been like, hey, you can't let this guy go
Speaker 4: right now, like you can't let him go home yet,
Speaker 4: we need him here a little longer. Then I get
Speaker 4: eliminated from the show. We're in Dublin and I'm sitting
Speaker 4: in my hotel room with my producer at the time,
Speaker 4: Megan and the executive produce her at the show back
Speaker 4: then comes in and she sits with me, and she's
Speaker 4: asking me how I'm doing, and she's talking to me
Speaker 4: about everything and how, you know, how the experience was,
Speaker 4: and at the end of that conversation goes, how would
Speaker 4: you like to be the Bachelor? I was like, this
Speaker 4: seems very soon. I feel like I'm still getting tricked.
Speaker 4: I feel like I'm still in this world.
Speaker 2: And this might be the earliest they've ever asked somebody that. Seriously.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I you know, we kind of that conversation
Speaker 4: came and went, and I went back home, and then
Speaker 4: I started hearing rumors of other guys getting you know,
Speaker 4: the interviews, and there's rumors of other guys that were
Speaker 4: going to be chosen. And it wasn't until a few
Speaker 4: months before the show that they called me and they
Speaker 4: actually asked officially. But there was a good few months
Speaker 4: in between the airing of the show and when they
Speaker 4: asked that I was kind of hesitant or thinking, no,
Speaker 4: this isn't for me. I mean, I went back to work,
Speaker 4: I was kind of getting back into a rhythm.
Speaker 3: So it was a while.
Speaker 4: But now looking back, I should have been smart enough
Speaker 4: to be like they they treated me differently.
Speaker 2: They certainly did on your Night one totally honest. Who
Speaker 2: was your top three coming out of the limo?
Speaker 3: It's a good question. I mean, I think Night one
Speaker 3: is really such a blur for any bachelor or bachelor.
Speaker 4: It happened so fast, But I remember being it was
Speaker 4: beca tilly for sure, because Becka and I had talked
Speaker 4: before the season started, and I had said, Hey, I'm
Speaker 4: going to be the Bachelor. If you're interesting, coming on,
Speaker 4: come on, And she did and she was great, and
Speaker 4: I was so excited that she took that risk to
Speaker 4: come back a second time.
Speaker 3: Olivia obviously got.
Speaker 2: The final first first impression.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then Jen Salviana, So like, those were the
Speaker 4: three that I remember on Night one just being super
Speaker 4: like they stood out. But even then, it's it's so
Speaker 4: hard to tell. You have like five minute interactions.
Speaker 2: With each mm hmm. So with Becca, what was the
Speaker 2: extent of your communication before the show?
Speaker 4: We she had I think either we had ran into
Speaker 4: each other somewhere and we were mostly in a very
Speaker 4: like friendly like texting place, fretty friendly. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: and just kind of conversing back and forth talking about
Speaker 4: the show, joking back and forth with each other. It
Speaker 4: wasn't super extensive, so there wasn't this everyday type of thing.
Speaker 4: It was once a week, you know, once every couple weeks.
Speaker 4: It was Hey, how's this going for you? Kind of stuff?
Speaker 4: And I think once I was announced as the bachelor,
Speaker 4: that became like a less of a friendly thing and
Speaker 4: more of a hey, what Like what should I do?
Speaker 4: Was the question, and I said, you should come on
Speaker 4: if that's something you're interested in doing. During that conversation too,
Speaker 4: because we were able to talk before the show, I
Speaker 4: had told her, and this will be funny later on,
Speaker 4: not funny, it's funny now that because obviously we're great friends.
Speaker 4: I had told her, Hey, because if you do come
Speaker 4: on and you risk this situation, I will never make
Speaker 4: you be eliminated in an unfair way, like at a
Speaker 4: rose ceremony, like I will always do it when I
Speaker 4: want to explain everything.
Speaker 2: Okay, did you promise her a certain point like I'm
Speaker 2: not going to eliminate you in the first couple of weeks.
Speaker 4: No goodness, No, I never said that. No, there was
Speaker 4: never that. It was just hey, when you if you
Speaker 4: do get eliminated, I will always do it like in
Speaker 4: a better way than how everybody else is. Because for me,
Speaker 4: and I think for her, she was in a different world. Right,
Speaker 4: she'd come off of the last season. She was risking
Speaker 4: it again coming on this season. Her family, right was
Speaker 4: going to be involved again. There were so many things,
Speaker 4: and so that was my hope. Now I didn't stick
Speaker 4: to my promise, and she got really mad about it.
Speaker 3: We're in worsea, Indiana.
Speaker 4: She's still there, and at that point I knew that
Speaker 4: we weren't going to, you know, be it there at
Speaker 4: the end. But Becca was always kind of in the
Speaker 4: top because she's such a joy to be around, such
Speaker 4: a joyful human.
Speaker 3: She's so fun.
Speaker 4: She got the process, and the girls loved her right
Speaker 4: like her and Jojo were best friends. They still are,
Speaker 4: And so it was like such a cool I felt
Speaker 4: like maybe.
Speaker 3: I was oblivious.
Speaker 4: I felt like it was such a cool last you know,
Speaker 4: eight people, because everybody's having so much fun. We're figuring
Speaker 4: this thing out, traveling the world bow and warsaw, and
Speaker 4: I kind of come to this realization, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 4: next week is hometowns. Yeah, I don't want to put
Speaker 4: her family through this again. I don't want to put
Speaker 4: her through this again if I know, this isn't going
Speaker 4: to be the one at the end, even though she could,
Speaker 4: you know, be there. And and so I'm like coming
Speaker 4: to this realization right before the Rose ceremony. And so
Speaker 4: I eliminate Becka in Warsaw and we go and I
Speaker 4: specifically said that guy, want to walk you out? And
Speaker 4: she said yes, and we sit down the bench in
Speaker 4: Warsaw and she goes, you promised you wouldn't do this
Speaker 4: to me, and I was like, I know, and I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: I don't know what else to.
Speaker 2: Do because was she the only one eliminated at that
Speaker 2: Rose ceremony because you had a two on one that week?
Speaker 2: Did you have a two on one? No, you didn't
Speaker 2: have a two on one? So then was she the
Speaker 2: only one eliminated at the Rose ceremony so that you couldn't.
Speaker 4: Do it because the twins went home after visiting my parents' house?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, That's what I remembered. Yeah, yeah, so remember
Speaker 2: somebody got eliminated in another way.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So it was like a very brutal mon mo from
Speaker 4: me because and my hope was that, you know, Becca
Speaker 4: and I would always stay connected and we have she's
Speaker 4: one of the closest people to me on the show still.
Speaker 4: But at first I think she was really upset, Like
Speaker 4: I think she was really mad that I didn't give
Speaker 4: her the respect that I promised I would give her,
Speaker 4: and I think that was a fair thing. And it
Speaker 4: was one of those moments that you're sitting there and
Speaker 4: you're like, I don't know what I can do, Like,
Speaker 4: there's nothing I can do about this other than you
Speaker 4: have every right to get so mad at me right now.
Speaker 2: We had the most fun week after you eliminated her.
Speaker 2: She was like, I don't, like, I don't feel like
Speaker 2: going home yet. So she came over. She slept over
Speaker 2: at my apartment for three days and we basically took
Speaker 2: We did take out for every meal, and we watched
Speaker 2: Gray's Anatomy all day long. It was so fun. No,
Speaker 2: not at all. No, she didn't give me much details,
Speaker 2: you know, but she's just like bombed.
Speaker 3: But I was hoping you'd be like, yeah, she was
Speaker 3: like just ripping you a new one.
Speaker 2: No, okay, So that means that you were more into
Speaker 2: Becca than you were into say, like Amanda and Kayla.
Speaker 3: I don't know if that is a fair statement. I think.
Speaker 4: At that point, so many of them kind of existed
Speaker 4: within the same.
Speaker 2: Sphere, like they were all like on the same level.
Speaker 2: And then there was Lauren and Jojo.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd say that would be the fair statement my
Speaker 4: concern with Amanda m Again, I feel very lucky because
Speaker 4: if you look at the list of people that were
Speaker 4: on that season, you're like, this was the most incredible
Speaker 4: group of all time. And I would stick to that
Speaker 4: and I would scream it from the mountaintops and everybody's
Speaker 4: happy and healthy and doing their thing today. I I
Speaker 4: didn't know about Amanda because it wasn't at that level right,
Speaker 4: Like she wasn't going to be there at the end.
Speaker 3: That was very obvious to me at that point.
Speaker 4: And she had two kids, Yeah, And I had said,
Speaker 4: I don't want to go to her hometown because you're
Speaker 4: bringing kids into this. That feels weird, that feels messy,
Speaker 4: And the show was like, yeah, but kind of what
Speaker 4: they do with me. I think they really wanted Amanda
Speaker 4: to be the lead of this next season. I thought
Speaker 4: that it made sense to me. It would have been
Speaker 4: an amazing lead.
Speaker 2: They saw her as like an Emily Maynard part two.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think for me it made sense, and
Speaker 4: I didn't want to take that away from her. Now,
Speaker 4: looking back, I don't think it would have mattered if
Speaker 4: she went home in the top five or the top
Speaker 4: four or whatever that was. But I, in my naive mind,
Speaker 4: and I'm trying to go back to this time, thought
Speaker 4: I'm doing the right thing by giving her the opportunity
Speaker 4: to become the next season's lead, by going to her hometown.
Speaker 2: Well, I still think Amanda would say thank you. I
Speaker 2: think she'd be glad that that happened. And I don't
Speaker 2: think that kids in chart thinking it was anything other
Speaker 2: than cool.
Speaker 4: I don't think they even probably remember it. But I'm
Speaker 4: going back to a place where at the time, it
Speaker 4: is your world, right, So you don't know the outcomes
Speaker 4: or the results from any of these decisions, and so
Speaker 4: for me, you're trying to weigh all those options, and
Speaker 4: you're like, Okay, if I was, since I am the
Speaker 4: one making the decisions here, this does feel like the
Speaker 4: right decision to do.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 4: But it wasn't that I was uninterested. I was very
Speaker 4: excited about it.
Speaker 3: It just wasn't.
Speaker 4: I just knew where the outcome was going to be.
Speaker 4: And so we went back to her hometown with her kids.
Speaker 4: I had asked the show to be respectful of that,
Speaker 4: given what I knew was going to be happening. And
Speaker 4: everything went awesome. I had a blast. Her kids are great,
Speaker 4: family's awesome, Amanda's great. And then I think, you know,
Speaker 4: the big moment for me, the moment where I got
Speaker 4: the maddest I ever was on the show was when
Speaker 4: they asked me to tuck the kids in at night.
Speaker 2: Cool. I remember this now in the.
Speaker 3: F Yeah, and I was like, no, I'm not doing it.
Speaker 3: I'm not doing it.
Speaker 4: But then you're sitting so you have to like, this
Speaker 4: will get us a little bit of a scope to
Speaker 4: like the decisions you have to make as the lead.
Speaker 3: You're in the family room with the whole family.
Speaker 4: They go, Hey, the kids are upstairs, are going to bed, Ben,
Speaker 4: you want to go up there? And you're sitting there, like,
Speaker 4: I got two options, say no and then bring up
Speaker 4: a whole array of questions from everybody sitting in the room,
Speaker 4: or say yes and just do it and hope for
Speaker 4: the best. And so I was like, all right, let's
Speaker 4: go because I didn't want I felt like if I
Speaker 4: said no, everybody would be questioning that Amanda would read
Speaker 4: through the lines there this could blow up in my face.
Speaker 4: So I went upstairs and then that's when I went
Speaker 4: out to the van and just blew a gasket.
Speaker 2: What'd you say to them?
Speaker 3: A lot of things I.
Speaker 4: Should have said, honestly, I think mostly you know, you commit,
Speaker 4: like you've asked me to trust you all, and these
Speaker 4: are the moments why I don't. You've put me in
Speaker 4: a situation that can affect others when I've tried so
Speaker 4: hard to not do that. I think I was in
Speaker 4: the right. I think the show thought I was in
Speaker 4: the right. I think every producer there was like, I
Speaker 4: get it, this sucks, but like it's good TV and
Speaker 4: they'll be all right. Those kids will recover.
Speaker 2: So the other time you blew a gasket with the
Speaker 2: show was when you were running for office in Colorado
Speaker 2: Congress the House, and then they told you, after already
Speaker 2: being involved in running, that you had to stop. Can
Speaker 2: you tell us this story?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: So, I mean there's a long backstory to that. So
Speaker 4: I get off the show, and I had always talked
Speaker 4: and I still to this day, have an interest in
Speaker 4: getting involved in my community in some way. So I
Speaker 4: thought it'd be fun to be on a city council.
Speaker 4: I always thought it would be fun to be in
Speaker 4: some situation where I was in the know. It's something
Speaker 4: I desire and making decisions that feel logical and rational
Speaker 4: on behalf of the community around me. To what scale,
Speaker 4: to what degree, I don't really know, but it was
Speaker 4: always something that intrigued me, and I had brought this
Speaker 4: up when we were filming the show, probably with some
Speaker 4: producers over dinner. So I get off the show and
Speaker 4: right away they have this idea, what if we did
Speaker 4: kind of a docuseries show about you running for office,
Speaker 4: and we helped support the whole thing financially, and we
Speaker 4: filmed the whole.
Speaker 3: Thing, and then maybe one day you're in office.
Speaker 4: And at the time, because I was twenty six with
Speaker 4: no money, I thought, this is an incredible opportunity. If
Speaker 4: I'm going to be able to run for office and
Speaker 4: have somebody support it at the scale that they could,
Speaker 4: then I'm going to say yes. And so I said
Speaker 4: yes and signed a contract for a show. That's an
Speaker 4: important note. Well, I don't know necessarily the behind the
Speaker 4: scenes of what happened, but I went through the whole process,
Speaker 4: got my name on the ballot, advocated for myself around
Speaker 4: my community, had so many five o'clock in the morning breakfasts,
Speaker 4: and then filmed the show of all this stuff, and
Speaker 4: I got my name on the ballot and the night
Speaker 4: of my celebration party for doing that, which is a
Speaker 4: big accomplishment. They call and they say, you need to
Speaker 4: pull out the race because and here's their reasoning, and
Speaker 4: and here's legally what I can say.
Speaker 3: But what is true.
Speaker 4: Is they said they found out recently from some of
Speaker 4: their attorneys that when you run a political campaign on TV,
Speaker 4: you have to show whoever the person's running against, equal amounts,
Speaker 4: which is a true thing. And I don't know if
Speaker 4: this was just them not knowing and figuring out at
Speaker 4: the last moment with wild timing, or if this was
Speaker 4: strategic in whatever way, or if they said, hey, this
Speaker 4: isn't going to be a great look, don't I don't know.
Speaker 4: I have no idea what the situation necessarily behind the
Speaker 4: scenes was. But that's what I was told, and I
Speaker 4: had to.
Speaker 2: And you flipped out. When do you flip out?
Speaker 4: I flipped out when, well, right there, because this is
Speaker 4: my community around me, right these are the like. At
Speaker 4: this point, I was still recently off the show, so
Speaker 4: this had gotten national coverage that I was running. I
Speaker 4: had convinced everybody in the community that this wasn't some
Speaker 4: setup for more attention, and so me backing out makes
Speaker 4: everything that I said and tried to claim within the
Speaker 4: people in my neighborhood go, no, this is exactly what
Speaker 4: it was. It was a seat and it leaves the
Speaker 4: seat wide open. Yeah, And so there was a lot
Speaker 4: of there was a lot of i'd say pain right
Speaker 4: after me as the bachelor. That happened because the people
Speaker 4: around me in my community very much lost trust in me,
Speaker 4: and they should have. They should have. I mean, everything
Speaker 4: I claimed ended up being false. That I was doing
Speaker 4: it for X y reasons and that I wanted to
Speaker 4: be involved, and I thought, I, you know, this was
Speaker 4: a good opportunity to do it, And so I was
Speaker 4: really mad. I was really mad that I was put
Speaker 4: in a position where so many around me would lose trust.
Speaker 4: And then long term I got even madder when they're like, yeah,
Speaker 4: but you still got to do a show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're like, oh, I thought my show was going
Speaker 2: to be about this, not about planning a wedding primarily.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, to somebody who probably doesn't really want to marry me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, somebody's not we're not talking. No, we still were.
Speaker 4: That was that was not quite yet. But the show
Speaker 4: I definitely knew was not going to be a healthy
Speaker 4: strategy for the future. And so but I was I
Speaker 4: had signed a contract and you know, said no to
Speaker 4: other opportunities because that show was under contract, and it
Speaker 4: was not necessarily something that I was excited about doing,
Speaker 4: and it was definitely not something that I had planned on.
Speaker 4: Ever wanting to do is to give that kind of
Speaker 4: scope into a life that already felt chaotic.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're going to go back to the show for
Speaker 2: a second, and then we'll go back to Happily ever
Speaker 2: After if you don't mind. So back to the Bachelor,
Speaker 2: where you are now down to your top three and
Speaker 2: you're going to fantasy suitet you have Jojo, Lauren, and Kayla.
Speaker 2: This is a question that the producers have written down
Speaker 2: that I didn't I don't know that it's true.
Speaker 4: You could ask anything, Ashley. You don't have to be
Speaker 4: hesitant here.
Speaker 2: I'm so hesitant. The producers of our show seem to
Speaker 2: think that you didn't sleep with these girls in the
Speaker 2: fantasy suite and I do not believe that is true.
Speaker 3: Why do they think that? You think.
Speaker 2: Because you because you didn't have sex with Chess. I
Speaker 2: guess before you guys got married. I'm pretty sure you
Speaker 2: slept with all these girls in the fantasy suite except
Speaker 2: for Kayla, who I don't think got to a fantasy suite.
Speaker 3: Why do you think all of that? Where are you
Speaker 3: getting that from?
Speaker 2: Where am I getting that from? Because didn't you eliminate
Speaker 2: her before the Fantasy suite part huh of the show? Oh?
Speaker 2: Oh she did go to the fantasy suite? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: So I actually think you slept with all of them.
Speaker 4: That is not a true statement, Okay, And that's why
Speaker 4: I'll leave that question.
Speaker 2: So I think there's two out of the three, and
Speaker 2: we'll have to figure out which.
Speaker 3: Why do you think that?
Speaker 2: Oh it could have been? What? I just why you're
Speaker 2: gonna you're flipping the awkwardness onto me? You asked, I
Speaker 2: think you definitely did it with Jojo.
Speaker 3: You have no basis for that, I have no idea.
Speaker 2: I'm going off your guts. Yeah, so you'd rather be
Speaker 2: float around rumors than you just tell us?
Speaker 3: Yeah I would, okay.
Speaker 2: Already, So it really comes down to Jojo and Lauren
Speaker 2: in the end, and I you know, you were, of
Speaker 2: course the famous person who said I love you to
Speaker 2: two people first. As we establish almost every week here
Speaker 2: on the Almost Inness podcast, it's just not a big
Speaker 2: deal anymore. Do you did you really truly not know
Speaker 2: who you're gonna pick that week? No?
Speaker 3: I didn't.
Speaker 4: I really didn't, oh, which is so weird to say,
Speaker 4: and then be so confident in the decision at the
Speaker 4: end end as I was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think.
Speaker 4: There was this storyline going on at the time that
Speaker 4: was never shown that was such so vital in my
Speaker 4: decision making. And actually I would love to talk to
Speaker 4: producer and actually know if it was actually happening.
Speaker 2: No, I know it was, Well, can you can you
Speaker 2: tell us?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll tell you. I don't think it would be.
Speaker 3: I don't think it.
Speaker 2: It doesn't seem Yeah.
Speaker 4: You know, hometowns every week at the end of it
Speaker 4: are so vital in this process. Hometowns were extremely important
Speaker 4: to me, and I had the experience and I think
Speaker 4: you saw it where you know, JoJo's family was very
Speaker 4: not in favor of this process, which is wild because
Speaker 4: she came to bachelorette and I get it.
Speaker 3: Maybe they just didn't like me. That's fine.
Speaker 2: There's no such thing as nobody liking then, especially if
Speaker 2: you're going to be a potential boyfriend like you are
Speaker 2: every year, Like I don't trust, but every parent wants
Speaker 2: Ben Higgins to come home.
Speaker 3: Her brother's muscles are really big, and I think they're
Speaker 3: questioning me. They're like, do you work out? Because it
Speaker 3: doesn't look like it.
Speaker 4: They they were hard, They were tough, and they should
Speaker 4: be maybe they I think they probably were, you know,
Speaker 4: fueled before I walked in to be tough. But they
Speaker 4: were tough, and it was awkward and it was weird,
Speaker 4: and it was by far the most awkward hometown I had.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I walked out of it.
Speaker 4: Being like, I can't I can't even consider what this
Speaker 4: would look like. And so that played a huge role
Speaker 4: in my decision making towards the end.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: The family's acceptance or at least desire to like give
Speaker 4: this a chance was very important to me.
Speaker 2: So you didn't think it was maybe them putting on
Speaker 2: an act for TV or being too influenced by producers.
Speaker 4: I should have, Yeah, I don't think I did. But
Speaker 4: we get to Jamaica. We're there for two weeks and
Speaker 4: I get this call that says that her brother, oldest
Speaker 4: brother is coming down to Jamaica to talk to me
Speaker 4: because he feels bad about how everything went down. And
Speaker 4: then it like he never Like fully, I think he
Speaker 4: did show up for a second, but it was never.
Speaker 4: It was like we weren't communica. Like it was like
Speaker 4: he wasn't there to apologize or walk me through what
Speaker 4: happened at hometowns. It was like he was there to
Speaker 4: continue on the conversation we had back there.
Speaker 3: So it like really made me.
Speaker 4: Confident and and I don't really know what was happening
Speaker 4: during that, but he was like there, and I thought
Speaker 4: he was there to like clear the water, which would
Speaker 4: have been awesome, but he it was instead it was
Speaker 4: there to like double down, I think.
Speaker 3: And I walked out of that.
Speaker 4: Being very confident in my at least where my thought
Speaker 4: on where the family stood. And that really kind of
Speaker 4: that got towards the last week and it really was
Speaker 4: kind of the deciding factor for me to say, Okay,
Speaker 4: either I walk out of this saying saying with the
Speaker 4: white flag, saying I can't make a decision, or I say, hey,
Speaker 4: I'll go with the you know, with the place that
Speaker 4: feels like it's the right thing, and I think the show.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I think the show had their ideas.
Speaker 4: Too for how this should play out, and I think
Speaker 4: they were trying really hard to make that play out
Speaker 4: the way they did.
Speaker 2: Are you saying that they really wanted Jojo to be
Speaker 2: the bachelorette?
Speaker 4: I say that that's my opinion obviously, But then I
Speaker 4: know after the show was.
Speaker 3: Done, airing Kayla was like filming.
Speaker 4: Neal to be the best threat, and so I don't
Speaker 4: know if they were that convinced. Honestly, I look at
Speaker 4: that last two weeks and there's still a out of
Speaker 4: confusion on how it all played out the way it did.
Speaker 4: I've never questioned the decision I made, though, So that's
Speaker 4: one thing. I think we were talking about that with
Speaker 4: one of the bachelors that we were interviewing leading up
Speaker 4: to this. When the decision was made, that I never
Speaker 4: will look back and be and had the what if
Speaker 4: it was it was how it was supposed.
Speaker 3: To play out.
Speaker 4: Obviously, look at my life now, I was always very
Speaker 4: confident in whatever path was moving forward. But I am
Speaker 4: confused about that kind of last week on how that
Speaker 4: all went down the way.
Speaker 2: It did, But Lauren was pretty convinced that you were
Speaker 2: having what ifs Am I wrong?
Speaker 3: Oh? I mean I think that's just natural.
Speaker 4: Yes, I mean I think is always the comparison, and
Speaker 4: then every interview you do post show, you know, the
Speaker 4: questions are brought up comparing the two, and so I
Speaker 4: think having those what if ideas are natural in that moment,
Speaker 4: especially coming off of it and watching it and seeing
Speaker 4: how conflicted I really was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of.
Speaker 4: Interesting like takes from that because at the time I
Speaker 4: felt like this is the biggest hardest decision I'd ever made.
Speaker 4: It should have never I don't think it should ever
Speaker 4: be that hard, like when you know you know right,
Speaker 4: so you.
Speaker 2: Should have known in that moment that neither of them
Speaker 2: was going to be your girl.
Speaker 4: I think that's the only what if I've ever had,
Speaker 4: is like why did I go through with any of it?
Speaker 4: And not because it wasn't great and real and fun
Speaker 4: and like excited, but it was like it wasn't right,
Speaker 4: It wasn't the right thing. And so that's the only
Speaker 4: question I now have today is was I confused?
Speaker 3: Maybe?
Speaker 4: But then you look at it and you're like, no,
Speaker 4: it makes it for me. It does make sense on
Speaker 4: how I got to that point, And that's why I
Speaker 4: would never give any lead any critical opinion when they
Speaker 4: are at the end, like tossed in emotion.
Speaker 2: So, Ben, when did you know it wasn't gonna work
Speaker 2: out with Lauren the first mode? Okay, maybe not when
Speaker 2: you first, when you definitely knew, But when did you
Speaker 2: start being like oh no, oh no, oh no, I mean,
Speaker 2: was it as early as your first happy couple?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 4: Goodness, no, okay, I mean I think I think then
Speaker 4: it's you kind of toss it up to This is
Speaker 4: a strange environment. I don't want to say which you know, lead,
Speaker 4: I've talked to about this recently, but happy couples, even
Speaker 4: for the happiest of couples, are really hard because the
Speaker 4: show's airing, you're doing interviews, the lead is typically getting
Speaker 4: risked away to go on TV somewhere, while the other
Speaker 4: person just kind of sits there and wait, I think
Speaker 4: you toss up those that season of life too. It is,
Speaker 4: it's not natural. It's difficult, and unless the the two
Speaker 4: of you have a clear understanding, I think most people
Speaker 4: within that season, even for the Golden Show, are probably
Speaker 4: having a hard time because there's a lot of conversations
Speaker 4: you shouldn't be having with somebody you know that you're
Speaker 4: you're with, like yeah, sorry about that. You had to
Speaker 4: watch it last night and then get reminded of it
Speaker 4: in two days.
Speaker 3: Yeah it No, it wasn't then.
Speaker 4: I'd say, the first time I really thought started thinking
Speaker 4: that and on that path was during Happily ever After.
Speaker 4: Was it felt like at some point, and I think
Speaker 4: it kind of happened slowly, was like we were work colleagues,
Speaker 4: Like we were just filming a show and you know,
Speaker 4: doing it and then going back and I think at
Speaker 4: that point it felt like, this isn't a team atmosphere.
Speaker 4: This isn't a like this should be more fun, It
Speaker 4: should be a lot easier. We shouldn't be knocking heads
Speaker 4: so much during this process. We should both be happier, right,
Speaker 4: Like you should both be in a happier place. This
Speaker 4: should be a great opportunity, you know. And I was
Speaker 4: at the time not wanting to do that show, but
Speaker 4: also thankful for the opportunity to be filming a show
Speaker 4: and making an income, and that people were at least
Speaker 4: a little bit interested in life, in our life and
Speaker 4: it's I think it was a slow fade to a
Speaker 4: place where we were just colleagues, like there was no
Speaker 4: there was no partnership.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna end with something kind of serious, So sorry,
Speaker 2: because we talk about fun, fluffy stuff all the time,
Speaker 2: and we will talk about you know, your life with
Speaker 2: just and your baby legit within the next couple of
Speaker 2: weeks here, So we'll save baby talk for that podcast
Speaker 2: when it comes more download. Yes, we had a conversation, Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2: We had a conversation with Crystals this week about drinking.
Speaker 2: And you have been open, especially in your book, about
Speaker 2: your addictions to painkillers. How was going through the Bachelor
Speaker 2: having been a former addict just like such an emotional process?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think maybe the benefit I
Speaker 4: had was because I was no longer addicted at that time.
Speaker 4: I had done some work on re assimilating myself with
Speaker 4: really hard emotions. Because for me, I think a lot
Speaker 4: of my addiction came from a numbing process of not
Speaker 4: wanting to confront certain behaviors, life choices, the place I
Speaker 4: was at in life and security, all those things, and
Speaker 4: so I was numbing those that pain through addiction, and
Speaker 4: so I had you know, I'd been clean for a
Speaker 4: few years going into that show, and I feel like
Speaker 4: I was at least somewhat prep because I was very
Speaker 4: comfortable confronting really hard things that I was dealing with.
Speaker 4: I also had a very strict drink limit for myself
Speaker 4: on the show when I was the lead, I didn't
Speaker 4: There was only one moment that I let loose, and
Speaker 4: that was in the Bahamas on like a boat. And
Speaker 4: if you get me on any boat, like on what
Speaker 4: and loose like I just love the water. You know,
Speaker 4: I look back, I wish I would have let loose
Speaker 4: a little more. I had a little more fun with it.
Speaker 4: You know, you can look back and think that. But
Speaker 4: I had a very strict limit for myself because I
Speaker 4: didn't want to go through this process having that like
Speaker 4: social anxiety the next morning when you're like why did.
Speaker 3: I say what I said? Why did I do what
Speaker 3: I do? Did?
Speaker 4: I was very nervous about how to communicate with every
Speaker 4: woman because it might be the last thing you really
Speaker 4: get to say to them before they're gone. And I
Speaker 4: just really was. I remember going into the show with this.
Speaker 4: Everybody has their own very well intentioned thoughts going into
Speaker 4: the show. Some must some might be these women are lucky.
Speaker 3: Mine maybe was.
Speaker 4: Our mine was how crazy is it that thirty people
Speaker 4: are giving up this much of their life to be
Speaker 4: here for as long as they're going to be here.
Speaker 4: And I think on my speech on the first night
Speaker 4: that I wrote, I just and I meant it, and
Speaker 4: I still mean it to this day, and I still
Speaker 4: hope it's the case to this day, because I am
Speaker 4: still is. I was just hopeful that every person would
Speaker 4: leave being I'm glad, I say, thinking I'm glad I
Speaker 4: did it.
Speaker 3: I didn't know what that would look like.
Speaker 2: I think everybody feels that way.
Speaker 3: I hope, so.
Speaker 4: I think some people probably have some at men and anger,
Speaker 4: and especially with the breakup. I think you know, there
Speaker 4: were sides chosen based on friendship and kind of loyalty,
Speaker 4: and that's fine. But I was just hoping that every
Speaker 4: person left and was like, I'm glad he did it
Speaker 4: for whatever reason that may be.
Speaker 3: Now night ones are a little harder to.
Speaker 4: Exients that they're glad, they get it, But if you're
Speaker 4: there for a few weeks, I was hoping you'd at
Speaker 4: least look back and was like that was that was
Speaker 4: a cool experience, and it was a great opportunity.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So, oh so back to your question, and so it
Speaker 4: wasn't that hard for me. I really don't remember many
Speaker 4: moments where I was like I need to numb anything.
Speaker 4: If anything, I kind of went with the strategy of
Speaker 4: I need to lean in to whatever it is I'm experiencing.
Speaker 2: All right, I totally that's a that's a great response.
Speaker 2: My final question for you is how it felt to
Speaker 2: be called the perfect Ben. I know that that was
Speaker 2: heavy on you. Yeah, and like, looking back, do you
Speaker 2: still feel like cringe about that label?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, it doesn't fit and.
Speaker 2: It does fit though, like do you get in do
Speaker 2: you do you still feel weird the fact that you
Speaker 2: are definitely look back upon as one of the favorite bachelors,
Speaker 2: as one of the ones that did it right?
Speaker 4: No, I actually like when you say that, like that
Speaker 4: feels very nice to hear.
Speaker 3: I hope, I guess.
Speaker 4: I hope in my life when I make big decisions
Speaker 4: that people see it and say, hey, you did the
Speaker 4: best you could and that you know you you did
Speaker 4: it in a way that maybe was relatable, that showed
Speaker 4: your faith even though it wasn't talked about a lot
Speaker 4: or shown a lot, But that like we could we
Speaker 4: could tell that you had some type of faith and
Speaker 4: respect that maybe was different than others. You had a
Speaker 4: really relatability because you were open, and other people watched
Speaker 4: it and felt less alone. You were human, So you
Speaker 4: struggled a lot through it, and it was messy and
Speaker 4: it wasn't perfect. I guess when I hear that, that's
Speaker 4: what my mind goes to. And I'm proud of that,
Speaker 4: and I'm thankful that in one of the moments when
Speaker 4: I was young, naive, unprepared, that I have a lot
Speaker 4: of pride in myself that in that, in one of
Speaker 4: the what should have been the most confusing, hardest things
Speaker 4: I've ever done, I stepped up and I did it
Speaker 4: in a way that I'm proud of and that other
Speaker 4: people can be proud of. Yeah, so no, I take
Speaker 4: that as a coment.
Speaker 3: The perfect beIN thing was. It was weird.
Speaker 4: There's a long story to it, but we've talked about
Speaker 4: it many times. You know, I had this parasite. I
Speaker 4: was sick the whole show and like couldn't get off
Speaker 4: the toilet, and I felt terrible because at some point
Speaker 4: the women in the house picked up on it.
Speaker 3: They kind of had because I was just like so sick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, wouldn't you rather just tell them?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, And there's a comfort, and there's a there's
Speaker 4: a weirdness when you're like, hey, yeah, you're committing time
Speaker 4: to date me.
Speaker 3: I already feel weird about that part.
Speaker 4: And also like I've got diarrhea, so like, yeah, this
Speaker 4: is cool, Like I'm feeling really good about myself right now.
Speaker 4: And so I was super sick and we're in the
Speaker 4: Bahamas and you know this has been brought up, but
Speaker 4: it just kind of makes everything go full circle. And
Speaker 4: then all the women get sick because of uh, some
Speaker 4: women in the ocean where there's like the pigs pigs,
Speaker 4: and all those women on that date got super sick
Speaker 4: and so they're you know, on the toilet all the time.
Speaker 4: So then we have this really fun, funny moment in
Speaker 4: the Bahamas that everybody can relate with because everybody in
Speaker 4: that room is sick. I'm literally laying on the bed
Speaker 4: in this like resort that we're in, in my underwear
Speaker 4: with a fan blowing on me, with Chris Harry and
Speaker 4: watching a football game next to me in a chair
Speaker 4: being like, dude, are you good? Like what do we
Speaker 4: gotta do here, and I'm like, we got to cancel everything.
Speaker 4: He's like, we can't cancel everything. I'm like, all right,
Speaker 4: He's like, we can do a Row ceremony right now.
Speaker 4: Just say you know what you want to do, walk
Speaker 4: out there. It takes you ten minutes. We're gonna run
Speaker 4: through it. We'll get over it.
Speaker 2: And I was like three minutes, my ass, Yeah.
Speaker 3: I never did.
Speaker 4: And so we come to that, and then we end
Speaker 4: up going, you know, to Jamaica, and so I'm coming
Speaker 4: off of this experience where I'm feeling pretty down. Everybody's
Speaker 4: kind of feeling like, not great about themselves. And the producers,
Speaker 4: the three head producers the show had moved into my
Speaker 4: house in Jamaica with me.
Speaker 2: That sounds like a blast, knowing who those were at
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we had a lot of fun. We had great dinners,
Speaker 4: we had great nights together. It was actually really like
Speaker 4: special some of my favorite nights. And one night they go,
Speaker 4: we got a surprise for you, and we walk up
Speaker 4: in the living room in this house and we sit
Speaker 4: down and they air the promo to the season because
Speaker 4: it had just started coming out, and I watch it
Speaker 4: and I'm like, it's so excited, and then at the
Speaker 4: end they go the perfect Ben and I remember in
Speaker 4: that moment just being like, I wasn't mad, I ain't yell.
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't even know if I said anything
Speaker 4: to them. I just remember sitting there and I made
Speaker 4: a joke that said, well, you just set me up
Speaker 4: for failure. And that was because that was the last
Speaker 4: thing with all those things I had just said on
Speaker 4: my intention and what I'm proud of about the show,
Speaker 4: and I'm proud of what I did during the show,
Speaker 4: you know, and it was messy. I'm sure it wasn't perfect,
Speaker 4: and that was the point is it wasn't perfect. And
Speaker 4: I think at that moment I realized that I either
Speaker 4: was going had to be perfect or I was going
Speaker 4: to have to live by a perfect standard, which is
Speaker 4: not me. And that was frustrating to me. I would
Speaker 4: much rather than say something and anything else. I guess
Speaker 4: it was a it was a fine tagline. I get
Speaker 4: why they did it. It just I felt like it
Speaker 4: set me up for failure. It set me up to
Speaker 4: be hated.
Speaker 2: It was right, you were never hated. It was as
Speaker 2: cute and clever and guess what, nobody remembers it, but
Speaker 2: you and I because this is what we do for
Speaker 2: a living and it was about you. All right. Well,
Speaker 2: thank you so much. Ben. This was not the hardest
Speaker 2: interview I've ever done, but also not the easiest somewhere
Speaker 2: in the middle. So thank you for being you and
Speaker 2: thanks for taking this trip down memory lane.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's this is the countdown. We're interviewing bachelor's today.
Speaker 4: I just happened to be the one leading up to
Speaker 4: Grant season of The Bachelor, which airs January twenty seventh.
Speaker 4: We're gonna have a lot more and many cool interviews
Speaker 4: with past bachelors as we continue. Thank you for giving
Speaker 4: me the opportunity to talk about this. It's been a
Speaker 4: long time and as much as we get to talk
Speaker 4: to everybody else, I don't reminisce on that season of
Speaker 4: life very often.
Speaker 3: And this was fun.
Speaker 2: Wait, Ben, I forgot to ask the question that I've
Speaker 2: been dying to ask you. I wanted to wait to
Speaker 2: the end.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: We asked Chrys Sols this week if you had to
Speaker 2: reorder your season, would you and could you? And Ben?
Speaker 2: Can you just know you're going to try to work
Speaker 2: your way around this. Just give us two people that
Speaker 2: you would have moved around.
Speaker 4: It's a good that's a good question, and I will
Speaker 4: do that for you. I I kind of already mentioned,
Speaker 4: you know, the Becca Tilly Amanda stan Thing. Yeah, so
Speaker 4: that would have been one change I would have made.
Speaker 4: But I still am confident in my decision not to
Speaker 4: go to Beca's hometown. So I would have replaced both
Speaker 4: of them with somebody.
Speaker 2: Oh really, who would it be?
Speaker 4: I think jin Okay, Yeah, I think, uh that kind
Speaker 4: of got a weird, had a weird ending.
Speaker 3: Towards the end, and.
Speaker 4: I and I actually wish I kind of I mean
Speaker 4: this Lauren Himel, who like came and went from the show, Like,
Speaker 4: I don't even know if anybody you.
Speaker 2: Had for Lauren.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had a lot of Lawrence.
Speaker 4: I think she got there on the deal because we
Speaker 4: didn't get a lot of time, and then she kind
Speaker 4: of went home. And that's kind of how the process works,
Speaker 4: I think, is you have these people you look back
Speaker 4: on you like they were really fun, interesting people and
Speaker 4: you just didn't get any time because of how the
Speaker 4: structure of the show worked. But I would say that's
Speaker 4: what I would have done. That would have been my replacement.
Speaker 4: The top three would have stayed the same. But I
Speaker 4: think I would have not gone to Becka's hometown because
Speaker 4: I want to want to put her family through it.
Speaker 4: I would have gone to Amando's because that ended up
Speaker 4: getting me angry and I don't like being mad, and
Speaker 4: I would have probably, you know, kept gin a little
Speaker 4: longer into that spot.
Speaker 2: What about Olivia.
Speaker 4: Olivia is fantastic and I'm glad you gave me the
Speaker 4: opportunity to speak about Olivia. She got a really raw
Speaker 4: into the deal in the show. She was like the
Speaker 4: villain on a season that the villains didn't exist, and
Speaker 4: that just is awful for her because she doesn't deserve it.
Speaker 4: Didn't deserve it. She was great, but at that point
Speaker 4: it's so hard for me because at that point I
Speaker 4: was so convinced that like she wasn't it, that like
Speaker 4: it was time to go home. And the longer we
Speaker 4: kept going, I think the more she was getting confident that.
Speaker 3: Like this is this is it. So I think that
Speaker 3: was the right decision.
Speaker 4: Then I just, uh, if I have one regret from
Speaker 4: the show, it's that I didn't stand up for Olivia
Speaker 4: sooner out loud and say like, hey, why are we
Speaker 4: all like, you know, bashing this because she's fantastic. She
Speaker 4: had no like, she did nothing wrong other than just
Speaker 4: be really confident in something that you know, maybe that's
Speaker 4: the worst thing, is to have confidence in something you
Speaker 4: should have confidence over. And I just didn't and I
Speaker 4: stayed quiet, and I feel terrible for it. I don't
Speaker 4: know why I did. Maybe I didn't know how much
Speaker 4: it was affecting her. I thought, you know, I thought
Speaker 4: most people would come and go from the show and
Speaker 4: be a k but she got the wrong to the deal. However,
Speaker 4: I think she's doing great now and that's exciting. But
Speaker 4: can you imagine being the villain on a season where
Speaker 4: everybody was awesome?
Speaker 3: Like that's so stupid.
Speaker 2: They were was like, what are your complaints about her?
Speaker 3: She chews weird, Like can.
Speaker 4: You imagine her being a villain on any other season?
Speaker 4: Like it doesn't exist. She's like God, she thrives, but
Speaker 4: because everybody was so awesome, she got you know, blasted,
Speaker 4: and that was that's just unfair, Like that that's a
Speaker 4: bad it's a bad at it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, now we're gonna sign off. Thank you,
Speaker 2: Ben Tutulu. Till next time I've been Ashley and I've
Speaker 1: Been Ben, We'll talk to You, followed the Ben and
Speaker 1: Ashley I Almost Famous podcasts on iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts.