1 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: In this episode of newt World, Anderill is transforming military 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: capabilities with advanced technology for the United States military and 3 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: allied forces. Unlike traditional defense contractors, Anderill is building cutting 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: edge technology at speed by identifying problems, privately funding their 5 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: research and development, and selling finished products off the shelf. 6 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: Ideas are turned into deployed capabilities in months, not years, 7 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,919 Speaker 1: saving the government and taxpayer's money along the way. Here 8 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: to discuss ANDRO, I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, 9 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: Christian Brose, President and Chief strategy Officer of ANDRO. He's 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: also a visiting fellow at the Hoover Institution, a member 11 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: of the Aspen Strategy Group, and author of the Kill Chain, 12 00:00:48,200 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: Defending America in the Future of High Tech Warfare. Chris, Welcome, 13 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: and thank you for joining me on news World. 14 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 2: It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. 15 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: What else should we know about ANDROL as a company? 16 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,639 Speaker 2: I think you hit a lot of the important points 17 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 2: in terms of the amount of investment we're bringing to 18 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 2: build our own capabilities, the speed with which we're moving. 19 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 2: I also think the main point that I would also 20 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 2: hit is designing for scale and scaled production, and that's 21 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 2: something that as we've become a larger company. We're now 22 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 2: eight years into our journey. This has really been something 23 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 2: that we've been working on for the past several years. 24 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 2: So when I say scale, I mean scale as indexed 25 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 2: against commercial manufacturing, where you look at a company like Tesla, 26 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 2: they're producing four to five thousand cars per week in 27 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 2: one facility. That's the level of scale that I think 28 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 2: we need to get to or get back to. You 29 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 2: could argue in defence production, where today the production of 30 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 2: a few dozen or a few hundred systems is deemed 31 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: to be large scale production. And that's just like nothing 32 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: that we would recognize from our own historical experience. That's 33 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 2: not how we won World War Two, that's not how 34 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 2: we generated to terns in the Cold War. That's a 35 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 2: level of scale production that we need to get back to. 36 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 2: And I think there's been a commercial or there's an 37 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 2: ongoing commercial manufacturing revolution that America is helping to lead 38 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 2: that can really kind of advantage us to move sort 39 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 2: of back in this direction for defense as well. 40 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: You know, and one of the more interesting examples is 41 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: the Ghost Shark story. The things you did with the 42 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: Royal Australian Navy that is a very fascinating project. Yeah. 43 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 2: So the Ghost Shark is an extra large autonomous undersea vehicle, 44 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 2: and what that means is it's basically a robotic submarine 45 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: the size of a school bus, so it can go 46 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 2: thousands of kilometers, it can carry lots of payload. It's 47 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 2: obviously a submarine system, so it is electric propelled, it's underwater. 48 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 2: And we got started on this project about three and 49 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 2: a half years ago with the Australian Navy. And the 50 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: reason we started working with the Australian Navy in part 51 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: was because they had been working on a similar type 52 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 2: of program since even before Anderill was a company, and 53 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 2: it wasn't going well and we just saw no path 54 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 2: to be able to do something new with the United States. 55 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 2: So we went to the other side of the world 56 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 2: and what we found in the Australian Navy was an 57 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 2: absolutely serious partner, a partner who is willing and able 58 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 2: to move quickly from the first conversation to getting on 59 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: contractors about three months. What was different about the program 60 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 2: was that Andreil did fund half of the development cost 61 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 2: of the system. The Australian Navy funded the other hats, 62 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 2: so it was a co investment model. When we started 63 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 2: this project andrel didn't have a company in Australia, part 64 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: of the agreement was that we would incorporate Anderil Australia 65 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 2: as an Australian company with Australian leadership and an Australian workforce, 66 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 2: which we've now done. We committed to delivering three operational 67 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 2: prototype systems in three years, and we actually delivered four, 68 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 2: and we did it ahead of schedule by the better 69 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 2: part of a year. That phenomenal work has now transitioned 70 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: to a one point seven billion dollar Australian dollar production 71 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 2: contract which we're now moving out on. We have a 72 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: team of probably two hundred people in Australia. The program 73 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 2: has a highly Australian supply chain that's leveraging a lot 74 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: of American and UK technology as well. We have a 75 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 2: large scale production facility that we've established in Sydney and 76 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 2: we're basically ready to start pushing these systems off the 77 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 2: line by the dozens with the new contract that we have. 78 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: So again from first discussion, first idea, to production contract 79 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: and production systems rolling off of a hot manufacturing line, 80 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 2: all of this will be accomplished inside of four years, 81 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 2: which I don't know if it's setting any records, but 82 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: I would certainly hold it up to the best achievements 83 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: of the US acquisition system. 84 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: Just to make clear for our listeners, the ghost Shark 85 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 1: is a school bus size submarine, so it's. 86 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: Not tiny correct fully autonomous. 87 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: When you say it's fully autonomous, does that mean that 88 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: it is internally controlled? 89 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 2: Yes, from a software or from an autonomy standpoint. So 90 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 2: this is almost how it has to be when you're 91 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 2: working underneath the sea, where your communications denied, your GPS denied. 92 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 2: So the ability of the vehicle to submerge, to go 93 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 2: comms dark with o GPS signal and execute a mission autonomously, 94 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 2: to travel out to run a kind of operational mission 95 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 2: and then sort of re emerge, kind of retake signal, 96 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: receive additional commands or instructions from a human operator, submerge 97 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: and go back and do other things. All of that 98 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 2: has to be autonomous because there's no humans on board. 99 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 2: You don't really have humans inside of the sort of 100 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 2: supervisory loops, so that has to all be done at 101 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 2: the level of software. 102 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: Yes. I mean I remember years ago when it seemed 103 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: almost amazing that we first developed vehicles that could loiter 104 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: and if I've found a tank which looked like the 105 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: right kind of tank, it would kill it automatically without 106 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: any kind of human intervention. But now you're talking about 107 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: a vehicle that could be a thousand or more miles 108 00:05:55,640 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 1: away underwater, basically controlled by itself, with humans having designed 109 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: the controls. But once you've got it under water, it's 110 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 1: on its own. So how does it know whether or 111 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: not to sink a particular vessel. 112 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: It's a great question, and this is where I would 113 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 2: sort of differentiate what the system is capable of doing 114 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 2: and what human beings will allow it to do, and 115 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:24,679 Speaker 2: the ethical considerations and the policy constraints about certainly robotic 116 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 2: systems or autonomous systems engaging in acts of violence is 117 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 2: something that we take incredibly seriously. Obviously, it's something that 118 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 2: our government partners take incredibly seriously. So in terms of 119 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 2: how all of that gets architected from a mission standpoint, 120 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 2: there will be a human being in the loop. There 121 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 2: will be a human being deciding kind of when that 122 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 2: system is authorized to go engage in something that moves 123 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: into kind of kinetic action. I think a lot of 124 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: times you saw that with rules of engagement, you know 125 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: that if you're in a scenario where a certain area 126 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 2: of the ocean is declared kind of a no go zone, 127 00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 2: no fly zone, you know, kind of an area of 128 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 2: active hostility, you can kind of relax certain assumptions about 129 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,119 Speaker 2: kind of how a system will engage or autonomous system 130 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 2: will engage in that context under the assumption that you're 131 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 2: not going to be seeing commercial traffic because it's been 132 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 2: cleared out of the area. But this is something that 133 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 2: we've taken great care to architect into the system in 134 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 2: terms of long range communications of other types of undersea communications, 135 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 2: so that when a human does need to get in 136 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 2: contact with it, there are procedures and sort of mechanisms 137 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 2: by which that can happen. And it's not just going 138 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: to be kind of sent off into the world thousands 139 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,559 Speaker 2: of miles downrange to just start killing things willy nilly. 140 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 2: That's not how we operate as a company. That's not 141 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 2: how our partners are ever going to use the system. 142 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 2: And this is more handled at the level of kind 143 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 2: of policy and constraints. 144 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: But I can imagine the most pressing challenge in the 145 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: region is the Taiwan Strait. But I could imagine that 146 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: something like the ghost Shark, which is relatively inexpensive and 147 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: which can be armed with a lot of low cost torpedoes. 148 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: None of it's is being used to take care of humans. 149 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: You actually, for the size of the vehicle, you can 150 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: actually get a lot more in it pricely because you 151 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: don't have to have oxygen, you don't have to have 152 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: a dining room, you don't have to have a wreck room. 153 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: All of that space gets turned into war fighting. That's right. 154 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 2: The system is very large, but compared to a Virginia 155 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 2: Class submarine, for example, it's small. Your point is right. 156 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,559 Speaker 2: All of the square footage of that vehicle is taken 157 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 2: up with pure emission capability. I think the way we 158 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 2: look at it is it's really going to be kind 159 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: of a compliment to a lot of those higher end 160 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 2: war fighting systems like a Virginia Class, which is just 161 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 2: a unique piece of capability that's unrivaled on the battlefield. 162 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 2: But your point is right, we can't produce many of them. 163 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 2: They can only carry but so many weapons before they 164 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 2: have to go back to reload. So the focus is 165 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 2: really with a ghost Shark that's weaponized, can I use 166 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 2: that system deployed at scale to go after a lot 167 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 2: of those other targets that otherwise of Virginia class would 168 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 2: have to frankly waste its time going after. 169 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 1: I think you could design it so that the Virginia 170 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: class submarine is coordinating ten or fifteen or twenty of 171 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 1: the ghost sharks. 172 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 2: In terms of them being a command in control node 173 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 2: for the system that is absolutely doable. My point was 174 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 2: only that in terms of how you're going to use 175 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 2: the exquisite asset or the exquisite capability of a Virginia Class, 176 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 2: you want that going after the hardest of the hard 177 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 2: problems that it and only it is able to do, 178 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 2: and leave a lot of the other kind of lower 179 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 2: level work in terms of what a ghost Shark would 180 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 2: be capable of doing. So it ends up more as 181 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: a high low mix of capability. Where again, the Virginia 182 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,719 Speaker 2: class could be in command of a lot of those 183 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 2: robotic systems, but it's using them more as adjunct magazines 184 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 2: to go after a lot of the targets that it 185 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 2: itself doesn't want to have to waste torpedoes on. 186 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: But that then gives you the potential per billion dollars 187 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: to have a force multiplier of enormous capability. 188 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely that's right, and I think that's the whole thesis 189 00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 2: here is how do we get to scale? How do 190 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 2: we kind of increase the volume of weapons we have 191 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 2: deployed on the battlefield available to our warfighters. 192 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: As you get into a full production run. Is it 193 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: conceivableuld the Australians allow you to then sell it to 194 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: third parties? 195 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is an active conversation we're having now 196 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 2: where I think in terms of the work that we 197 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 2: would do on that type of system in the US, 198 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 2: I think there's an understanding that that's going to be 199 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 2: a unique relationship that we have with the United States, 200 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 2: and any kind of systems of that class would be 201 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 2: built in the United States. But I think in terms 202 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 2: of collaboration with other allies and partners in the into 203 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 2: Pacific region, that is absolutely something that I think the 204 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 2: Australian government would be in the lead on and I 205 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 2: think that's something that we're very looking forward to in 206 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: terms of facilitating that kind of collaboration. To your point, 207 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 2: add and sort of multiply capability that's out there on 208 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 2: behalf of democratic countries and US aligned countries. 209 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: Could you imagine given our own culture and our own bureaucracy, 210 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 1: a willingness to say this thing is actually working, it's 211 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: actually being built, we actually understand it, so they just 212 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: basically buy the capabilities. You may want to build it 213 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 1: in the US, but you're building something which already exists, 214 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: which eliminates all of the developmental time, developmental costs, the 215 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: kind of things that drag out forever and make American 216 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: weapons vastly too expensive and given the speed of technology, 217 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: way too slow to stay inside the technology loop. 218 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 2: This is exactly the conversation we're having right now, and 219 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 2: the argument is exactly what you're laying out, which is 220 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 2: good news. The Australian Navy and andrel have already paid 221 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 2: the development costs. We've already done all the hard work. 222 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 2: We've gotten the system to the point where it can 223 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 2: now be mass produced just by it. You can missionize 224 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 2: it or weaponize it for your own unique purposes. But 225 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 2: the overarchain system is just ready to go and available 226 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 2: for you to buy. 227 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: You have an end depth understanding of the Congress, to 228 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:10,479 Speaker 1: what extent can your new experiences and your new understanding 229 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 1: of how dramatically capabilities are changing, to what extent can 230 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: that be communicated to the Congress. 231 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,959 Speaker 2: It's something that we're actively involved in. And I'll tell 232 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: you the thing that really encourages me is when we 233 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 2: go up to the Hill on a bipartisan, on a 234 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 2: bicameral basis, authorizers and appropriators across the board, when we 235 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 2: talk about the work we've done on ghost Shark, for example, 236 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,839 Speaker 2: what the capability brings. Everyone's excited about it. There isn't 237 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 2: anyone who thinks this is a bad idea or it's 238 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 2: not necessary. Once you then get into the eaches of 239 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 2: you know, how are you going to budget for it, 240 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 2: over what period of time, etc. You know, we may 241 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 2: see some more specific considerations, but there isn't anyone on 242 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 2: the Hill that I've engaged with who doesn't think that 243 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 2: this is a great model for how to acquire capability. Differently, 244 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 2: that it's something that the US needs to be looking 245 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 2: at and hopefully in the coming years will be something 246 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 2: that the US is actively acquiring. 247 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: I was very struck with a recent report that Ukraine 248 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 1: this year will build four million drones. People tend to 249 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: forget that the Ukraine in the Soviet Empire was in 250 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: fact a major manufacturing center, has a lot of really 251 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: smart engineers and has turned out to be I think, 252 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: a much more agile and much more technologically advanced opponent 253 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: than the Russians were ready for. I was just reading 254 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: a column talking about Israel and the reader which the 255 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: Ukrainian experience is in some ways a real threat to 256 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: Israel because Ukraine apparently used one hundred and seventeen low 257 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: cost attack drones, which apparently they smuggled in in trucks 258 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: all the way into the heart of Russia and then 259 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: launched them. And it's actually a Masad quality operation, I mean, 260 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,319 Speaker 1: not what you don't really think of. We're doing devastating 261 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: impact Ukrainian drones that cost I think something like seventy 262 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. We're sinking multimillion dollars Russians and literally drove 263 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: them out of the Black Sea. How do you see 264 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: this evolution of sort of an agile, information rich capability 265 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 1: that's evolving constantly when confronted with an American system which 266 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: is cumbersome, favors very high tech, very expensive and very 267 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: slow to produce capabilities. 268 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 2: I think that we need to learn the lessons of 269 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 2: what's happening in Ukraine. I worry that we're not to 270 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 2: the degree that we should be. And I think there's 271 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 2: a handful to me that jump out and I think 272 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 2: you're hitting them, and I just underscore a few. So 273 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 2: back to the theme of production at scale, the numbers 274 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 2: that you're quoting that the Ukrainians are delivering, it's all 275 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 2: based on an assumption that I think we used to 276 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 2: plan our forces around, but we stopped doing for the 277 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 2: past thirty or forty years, which is, wars are going 278 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 2: to be protracted. We're going to lose a lot of systems. 279 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 2: We're going to lose a lot of vehicles, we're going 280 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 2: to shoot a lot of weapons. We're going to have 281 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 2: to regenerate a lot of loss capability, and then we're 282 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 2: going to have to do that as a function of time. 283 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 2: That's not how we've been building the force, arguably since 284 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 2: the Cold War. We've been assuming that wars will be short, 285 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 2: we'll be able to have a technological advantage through exquisite 286 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 2: systems and stealth and other types of capabilities like that, 287 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 2: and that when we do go to war, it'll be 288 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 2: overrelatively fast. We'll shoot a small number of weapons, we 289 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 2: won't lose a lot of things, we won't have to 290 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 2: regenerate a lot of capability. So I think shifting the 291 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 2: enterprise has a whole different set of planning assumptions is 292 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 2: going to be hard, and I think that it almost 293 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 2: necessitates leaving behind kind of the existing processes by which 294 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 2: we've been building the kind of exquisite traditional military that 295 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 2: we have, and putting in place a parallel process to 296 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 2: define requirements differently, to spend money differently and faster, to 297 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 2: acquire systems that are not meant to last forever but 298 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 2: are something that you can deploy at scale, redesign redeploy 299 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 2: that is, I think, something that we are absolutely capable 300 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 2: of doing. We just need leadership to make it so. 301 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 2: And then I think the kind of a related point 302 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 2: is on adaptability. And that's the other key lesson that 303 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 2: I think we've been learning and others have been learning 304 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 2: on the Ukrainian battlefield is if you have something that 305 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 2: works today, that's great, but it's likely not going to 306 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 2: work next week or next month or next year. So 307 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 2: the real advantage goes to the organizations that can be learning, 308 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 2: organizations that can adapt their technology quickly based on the 309 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 2: lessons of the battlefield, the lessons that their soldiers are 310 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 2: learning and sort of driving back in the technological development cycle. 311 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 2: The US government doesn't work that way. We work on 312 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 2: these long, linear kind of timelines that you just laid out. 313 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 2: It argues for having this kind of alternative pathway for 314 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 2: expendable systems and attrigerable systems, things that are not be 315 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 2: twenty one long range strike bombers and Virginia class submarines 316 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 2: that are just always going to travel a different path. 317 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 2: And we do need those systems. But I think we 318 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 2: have the authorities, we have the resources, we certainly have 319 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 2: the sense of urgency and the desire to do this. 320 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 2: We just need to build an alternative process or an 321 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: alternative pathway that allows us to get these kinds of 322 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: large scale, lower cost, oftentimes more autonomous systems developed quickly, 323 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 2: produced at scale, produced by a different type of defense industry, 324 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 2: and really bring them into the fold. All of this 325 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 2: is there. I think we have all of the basis 326 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 2: to be able to do this and really change our 327 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 2: defense industrial base, change the composition of our force. It's 328 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 2: just a function of leadership and imagination. 329 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: I'm actually sort of encouraged by what I see beginning 330 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: to happen. I've been talking for a number of years 331 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: about the difficulty of very large, successful systems to culturally change. 332 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 1: In the last two or three years, I've begun to 333 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: sense the ice breaking and the American system being to 334 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 1: look around and go, you know, we are really going 335 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: to have to change in profound ways. 336 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's absolutely true. I mean, when I 337 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 2: think back to the time that you and I were 338 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 2: sitting in John McCain's Senate office ten years ago talking 339 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 2: about this, I mean, you couldn't mention China in great 340 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 2: power competition in the same sentence without somebody kind of 341 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 2: wagging their finger at you. 342 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: We didn't even. 343 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 2: Accept that we had a problem. So this tanker has 344 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 2: begun to turn considerably. I think that we're still not 345 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 2: there in the sense of really needing to see the 346 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 2: kind of demand signal at scale. I think that we're 347 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 2: starting to see that spinning up in the first several 348 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 2: months of the Trump administration. I think under the leadership 349 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 2: of the Secretary of War and the Service secretaries, the 350 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 2: Deputy Secretary Feinberg, I think we're really starting to see 351 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 2: a demand signal to industry that is actually related to 352 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 2: the kind of scale of problem that we're facing that 353 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 2: is going to unlock the American system in a way 354 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 2: that we have not really seen happen in the defense world, 355 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 2: probably going back into pretty deep into the last decade, 356 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 2: certainly pre last Supper and industrial consolidation. And I think 357 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 2: that's the level of demand that we need. And to me, 358 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 2: where I'm very optimistic is if the government can sort 359 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 2: itself out at the level of kind of requirements and 360 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 2: funding and demand signal. I think we have all the 361 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 2: raw material in this country to meet that demand on 362 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 2: a timeline that's relevant. We have the talented people, we 363 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 2: have world class technology. We actually do know a lot 364 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 2: about modern manufacturing, we're doing it in a lot of instances. 365 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 2: The ability to kind of generate and regenerate a lot 366 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 2: of that capacity in this country quickly, all of this 367 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 2: is achievable. So to me, it's really just a function 368 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 2: of if the government can think about procuring capability less 369 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 2: in this sort of five year proto communist way that 370 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 2: we've been going about for the very long time, and 371 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 2: actually start to get American capitalism back into defense the 372 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 2: way that it once was. You know, again, I'm not 373 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 2: saying we're going to solve every problem that we're facing immediately, 374 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 2: but I think that we begin to unlock you know, 375 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 2: a different set of behaviors, a different set of incentives. 376 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 2: We have endless kind of access to capital in this country. Again, 377 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 2: all the wrong materials are there. We just need to 378 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 2: sort of write signal coming from the government, and I 379 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 2: believe we're starting to see that. 380 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: In an article you wrote, I think for National Review, 381 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: you cited something which I've been told over and over, 382 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: which is, every time we do a war game about Taiwan, 383 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: we run out of munitions about the end of the 384 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: first week. While we build these huge, complex systems that 385 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: are very expensive and very capable, in one way, they 386 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 1: deprive us of the redundancy and the inexpensive capacity to 387 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,479 Speaker 1: kill that may be at the heart of how you 388 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: survive in a conflict like Chinese attempting to cross the 389 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: straits of Taiwan. From your perspective, are you beginning to 390 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: see us move towards a greater realization that we have 391 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: to have a massively larger and more capable of munitions. 392 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: Do you have a sense that we're beginning to shift 393 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: in our understanding that if we don't solve the industrial 394 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: base problem and get to less expensive, dramatically more reproducible capabilities, 395 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: that we just will be out of the game. 396 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 2: Yes, But the yes is I think that there is 397 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 2: an absolute realization that where we are on munitions as 398 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 2: a country is woefully inadequate. And the evidence is exactly 399 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 2: what you just said. And for those who doubt kind 400 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 2: of the outcomes of the war games, you just need 401 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 2: to look at Ukraine, where in the first several months 402 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 2: of combat with Russia, the Ukrainians burned through about a 403 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 2: decade's worth of anti tank and anti air US weapon production. 404 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 2: So those are relatively simple tactical systems, right, So if 405 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 2: we're shooting all of our patriot interceptors, all of our 406 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 2: long range anti shit missiles and other kinds of exquisite weapons, 407 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 2: they're going to take even longer to regenerate. So I 408 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 2: think the desire to have more weapons is real. Historically, 409 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 2: weapons have been a bill pay and I saw this 410 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 2: in my experience in the Congress, where critical munitions lines 411 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 2: were short changed in order to buy more platforms. But 412 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 2: we started to change that, and this is I think 413 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 2: the important point that many folks who haven't been paying 414 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 2: as close attention don't realize. Over the past ten years, 415 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 2: we have tripled spending in this country on critical munitions, 416 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 2: But when you look at the amount of production that 417 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 2: we've gotten as a result of it, it's only twenty 418 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 2: three to twenty four to twenty five percent increases. So 419 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 2: to me, it goes back to the point that, yes, 420 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 2: we do need to spend more money on weapons, but 421 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 2: we need to spend that money differently because a lot 422 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 2: of the critical weapons that everyone is focused on, and 423 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 2: there's about a dozen, we're never designed to be mass 424 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 2: produced in the first place. They were designed to be exquisite, 425 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 2: to be able to go after the hardest of the 426 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 2: hard requirements that you're going to put on those weapons, 427 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 2: and as a result, for any number of countless reasons, 428 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 2: the ability to produce them at scale at an affordable price, 429 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 2: to be able to regenerate them quickly when you lose 430 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 2: them is next to zero. So I think the argument 431 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 2: that we've been trying to make is absolutely, let's spend 432 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 2: more money on the weapons we have, but in addition 433 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 2: to that, we need to spend a lot more money 434 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 2: on low cost complementary weapons. So at andro we're building 435 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 2: a low cost cruise missile for the Air Force and 436 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 2: working with some of the other services on it. It's 437 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 2: going to be as exquisite and capable as a JAZM 438 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 2: or an ELRASM kind of maritime or air launched cruise 439 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 2: missiles or a Tomahawk cruise missile, but it's going to 440 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 2: cost a tenth the price. So if I can create 441 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 2: kind of a blended salvo where I can shoot a 442 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 2: whole bunch of our low cost cruise missiles and one 443 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,159 Speaker 2: of those more exquisite weapons, I'm actually shooting a salvo 444 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 2: that costs less than if I just shot all exquisite weapons. 445 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 2: I'm actually burning down the defenses of the system that 446 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,199 Speaker 2: I'm shooting at, and that one exquisite weapon is going 447 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 2: to go a lot farther and do a lot more 448 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 2: as a function of being paired with a lot of 449 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 2: low cost complimentary weapons. So it's a matter of needing 450 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 2: to spend money differently on new types of programs to 451 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 2: complement the ones that we have. 452 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: As you watch artificial intelligence and it's very spin offs, 453 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: isn't it likely that these low cost systems, in fact, 454 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: within a very short time are going to be as 455 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: sophisticated and as capable as today's very high cost systems. 456 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is a good point in terms of 457 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 2: what we mean by exquisite. From US software standpoint, I 458 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 2: would say the capabilities that AROL is bringing to bear, 459 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 2: whether it's on the go Shark UV or on all 460 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,919 Speaker 2: the different weapons that we're building, that software is exquisite. 461 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 2: I mean, it's absolutely world class. It's like nothing else 462 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 2: in the industrial base, and it's changing constantly, so I 463 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 2: can make that weapon effectively a new weapon each time 464 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 2: I recode it or add new algorithms or add new 465 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 2: software digital capability. When we often talk hardware, that's where 466 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 2: I think when we say exquisite, we're getting into different 467 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 2: kinds of seekers and countermeasures and other kinds of survivability 468 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 2: mechanisms that drive up price, that drive up complexity, that 469 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 2: reduce producibility, that sort of drive out lead times. That's 470 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 2: the kind of stuff that really limits our ability to 471 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 2: produce its scale. In addition to a whole host of 472 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 2: other things get into you know, assembly and manufacturing and 473 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 2: critical materials and things of that sort. But you know, 474 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 2: from the standpoint of what's inside of the systems that 475 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 2: we're building, I mean that software is absolutely exquisite. The 476 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 2: good news is that it changes daily weekly. You can 477 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 2: adapt it to the threats that you're facing, and you're 478 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 2: making that weapon incredibly more intelligent than kind of its 479 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 2: traditional alternative. 480 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 1: Chris, I want to thank you for joining me and 481 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 1: our listeners can find out more about the incredible work 482 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: you're doing by visiting your website at Anderil dot com. 483 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Christian Brose. You can get 484 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: a link to Anderill on our show page at newsworld 485 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 1: dot com. News World is produceabley gingishree sixty and iHeartMedia. 486 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: Our executive producers guards each loan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. 487 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,719 Speaker 1: The artwork for the show was created by Steve Fenley. 488 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 1: Special thanks to the team at Ginglish three sixty. If 489 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: you've an enjoying Newsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple 490 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: Podcasts and both rate us with five stars and give 491 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: us a review so others can learn what it's all about. 492 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of Newsworld can start up for my 493 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: three free weekly columns at Ginglish three sixty dot com 494 00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:05,360 Speaker 1: slash newsletter. I'm new Ginglish. This is Newsworld.