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Speaker 1: Trust me?

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Speaker 2: Do you trust me? All right?

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Speaker 3: Everly?

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Speaker 4: And you astray to us.

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Speaker 5: This is the truth, the only truth.

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Speaker 2: If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't

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Speaker 2: welcome to trust me. The podcast about cult's extreme belief

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Speaker 2: and manipulation from two very famous celebrities who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 2: I'm famous celebrity low lablanc and I'm famous celebrity Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: And if you haven't heard of us, that's your problem.

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Speaker 2: Today is part two with Claire Hoffman, former member of

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Speaker 2: a transcendental meditation community and author of two books. We

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Speaker 2: are discussing one we talked about last week, called Utopia Park,

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Speaker 2: about her childhood in TM, and the second, which we

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Speaker 2: will talk about today, is called Sister Sinner. The Miraculous

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Speaker 2: Life and Mysterious Disappearance of Amy Semple McPherson. Claire is

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Speaker 2: going to tell us who Amy Simple McPherson was. She

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Speaker 2: was a Pentecostal evangelist and media celebrity in the nineteen

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Speaker 2: twenties and thirties. How McPherson first decided to create a church,

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Speaker 2: and how she pioneered the use of theatrics and mass

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Speaker 2: media using radio to build an audience and make a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of money.

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Speaker 4: Claire is going to explain how McPherson skyrocketed to fame

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Speaker 4: and became a mega famous public figure like us, and

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Speaker 4: then she'll tell us the story of McPherson's mysterious disappearance

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Speaker 4: from the beach in Santa Monica and the ensuing court

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Speaker 4: case that gripped the nation, basically the OJ Simpson trial

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Speaker 4: of the nineteen twenties, which is so crazy because I'd

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Speaker 4: never heard of it before. It just shows you how

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Speaker 4: much happens that we don't even know about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, and this is American history, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we should know.

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Speaker 1: But like if a.

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Speaker 4: Nineteen twenty eight time traveler can, they'd be like, what

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Speaker 4: do you think about it?

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Speaker 1: Amy simple, she was like, we don't know her.

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Speaker 4: It would be like us being like, you don't know

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Speaker 4: Kim Kardashian in one hundred years, because it just it

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Speaker 4: was just wild to not know the story at all.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, and before we talk about this story with Claire, Megan,

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Speaker 2: please share your cultiest thing.

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Speaker 1: Of this week. I mean, the thought on the tip

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Speaker 1: of my head is fine, the tip of your head, wow, fascinating.

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Speaker 4: Listen, The point is smart the way I say it,

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Speaker 4: the point on the tip of your head.

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Speaker 1: Mine nice is fame.

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Speaker 4: It's a cult and it feels so real while you're

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Speaker 4: in it. You're like, I'm famous.

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Speaker 2: Because that's how you feel right now because you're super

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Speaker 2: famous famous, as we know in the intro.

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Speaker 1: But it's it is CULTI and it totally is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we worship the strangers and it destroys them and.

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Speaker 1: Does destroy them. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Like there's always this trajectory of like, wait, they're so good. Wait,

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Speaker 2: wait wait, I love them, I'm oss tested with them,

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Speaker 2: and then once we like them too much, we're like devalue,

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Speaker 2: fuck that person. I hate them. I'm so sick of them.

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Speaker 2: Jennifer Lawrence is annoying. Actually, you know, yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: That was just the forefront for me. I had a

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Speaker 2: couple of videos go viral ish recently online and it.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't feel good.

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Speaker 2: It feels bad because then I'm like, well, how do

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Speaker 2: I do it again?

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Speaker 6: Oh?

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Speaker 1: No, how do I make What do I do for

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Speaker 1: the next one? Right? How do I get this again?

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Speaker 1: And keep this going? Like?

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Speaker 3: It?

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Speaker 1: It's like interesting?

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Speaker 2: How it really isn't like you have to keep churning

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Speaker 2: stuff out.

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Speaker 1: Right, you're not.

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Speaker 4: You never reach the pinnacle or the point. It's just

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Speaker 4: an ever moving goalpost like cults and.

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Speaker 2: The most successful people I know like absolutely do not

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Speaker 2: feel like they have achieved, like that they've gotten there

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Speaker 2: and like, Okay, now I can rest. Like, no, that's

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Speaker 2: not an ever shout out to my song Everybody, whose

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Speaker 2: lyric is when everybody loves me, then I'll finally be happy,

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Speaker 2: Then I'll finally rest. Go stream it now, ooh we

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Speaker 2: should play it at the end of this episode. So

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Speaker 2: relevant to this Relly, Yeah, I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: What about you? What's your cultiest thing of the week?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so this week, well, like two days ago, I

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Speaker 2: was in the grocery store. I was in I think

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Speaker 2: it was John's, okay, and a young woman I would

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Speaker 2: say probably she looked twenty five walked up to me.

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Speaker 2: I was like, excuse me, can I can I have

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Speaker 2: a moment of your time? And I was like sure.

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Speaker 2: A young woman and she was accompanied by an older

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Speaker 2: woman and I was like, okay, this is about to

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Speaker 2: be some like Christian shit, and she was like, is

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Speaker 2: it okay?

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Speaker 1: If I read you a Bible verse?

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Speaker 2: This is a part of this thing we're doing where

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Speaker 2: I'm supposed to reach out to people and to read

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Speaker 2: them a Bible verse. And I was like, sure, read

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Speaker 2: me your Bible verse. And I was so curious what

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Speaker 2: she was going to read me. She reads me this

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Speaker 2: verse from Genesis one twenty six, and I'll be curious

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Speaker 2: if you know where this is going or what church

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Speaker 2: this is? Okay, Genesis one twenty six states then God said,

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Speaker 2: let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness,

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Speaker 2: so that they may rule over the fish of the

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Speaker 2: sea and the birds.

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Speaker 1: Of the sky. Blah blah blah. And she was like,

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Speaker 1: who is our There's God. He's a man.

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Speaker 2: But there was also Eve, and he also made Eve,

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Speaker 2: and he said, let us make mankind in our image.

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Speaker 2: So that means there must be a woman, a woman

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Speaker 2: who's there with God. And I was like, this is

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Speaker 2: actually such an interesting that's.

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Speaker 4: A great point. I would have joined. H I have

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Speaker 4: no idea who it is. Don't even tell me I'm joining.

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Speaker 2: She's like talking about a female God and I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: if I were into the God thing, this would.

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Speaker 1: Get me for sure. Who was it? What are they?

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Speaker 2: So I it took it took me a minute to

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Speaker 2: get out of her where she was from, because she

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Speaker 2: just wanted to exchange phone numbers so that she could

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Speaker 2: talk to me, and I was like, I'm not doing that, sweetie,

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Speaker 2: but I took her phone number down, and so she

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Speaker 2: said it's the Church of God, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: the Church of God and she was like, well, it's

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Speaker 2: actually the World Mission Society Church of God.

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Speaker 1: What the fuck is what?

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Speaker 2: So I looked it up and spoiler alert, there are

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Speaker 2: people who believe it is a cult.

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Speaker 1: Uh oh.

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Speaker 2: It is a South Korean based church that essentially believes

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Speaker 2: that the woman in Korea, this elderly woman, is God.

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Speaker 2: She is God the Mother, She's the female image of God.

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Speaker 2: They believe that there are two images of God, God

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Speaker 2: the Father got the Mother, and this old woman in Korea.

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Speaker 1: Is one of them. I'm joining.

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Speaker 2: They cite other passages that say like our mother in

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Speaker 2: Galatians Galicians, yeah, Galatians, and the Spirit and the Bride

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Speaker 2: in Revelation. So they're like finding these passages that sort

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Speaker 2: of impliese Jesus.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One of the things she said was like, we think Jesus,

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Speaker 2: but there's a mother there. So you're telling me I

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Speaker 2: can go to South Korea. Get plastic surgery all day

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Speaker 2: long and talk to people who think God is also

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Speaker 2: a woman.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I don't think you have to go

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Speaker 1: to Korea. I think you can go to those felis.

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Speaker 5: Cool.

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Speaker 1: I'm close.

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Speaker 2: But reading their Wikipedia is really interesting because they're have

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Speaker 2: been cult accusations, but there also was a what appears

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Speaker 2: to be a panic wave about them.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that was not founded.

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Speaker 2: So it's one of these complicated things where it's like,

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Speaker 2: are there problems with this group?

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Speaker 1: There do seem to be. Yes.

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Speaker 2: Former members say that it exercises excessive control over its members,

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Speaker 2: enforces family separation, exploits its members, you know, all the

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Speaker 2: cult things. However, there was apparently like a social media

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Speaker 2: panic about human trafficking being linked to the church, and

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Speaker 2: all of the police and destigations turned up nothing. They

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Speaker 2: were like, this is nothing and there was there was

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Speaker 2: no evidence, no criminal activity, but the rumor just kept

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Speaker 2: spreading through like various colleges. I guess because interestingly, they

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Speaker 2: target a lot of young women. What was also so

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Speaker 2: interesting because I did read that they have been known

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Speaker 2: to kind of like maybe target people who are vulnerable,

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Speaker 2: but particularly women. I was like literally on the phone

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Speaker 2: with my mom, like talking about my breakup, like sounding upset,

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Speaker 2: and I hang up the phone and one minute later

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Speaker 2: there next to me, it was like she's.

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Speaker 4: Just like holeing out by the pop tarts, waiting for

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Speaker 4: a woman, vulnerable woman to come. But like she clearly

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Speaker 4: is a vulnerable woman, Like she's so young, Like she

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Speaker 4: clearly believed what she was saying, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 4: Like she's being watched by an older person.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but the human trafficking allegations, there's no there there.

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Speaker 2: So I think those distinctions are important to make lest

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Speaker 2: we become culty in our thinking as well. That's all

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Speaker 2: I will say about that. So, yeah, I got culted, culted.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say flirtyfish, but not really, that's not

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Speaker 2: what that is. When you call that you got culted.

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Speaker 2: I just got culted. Congratulations. Finally, no one ever knows

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Speaker 2: that to me anyway. Speaking of women leaders of churches,

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Speaker 2: oh my gosh, this one's a doozy.

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Speaker 1: Let's jump into it all rights.

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Speaker 2: This next book that you've written, which is a biography,

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Speaker 2: is called Sister Center. The Miraculous Life and Mysterious Disappearance

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Speaker 2: of Amy Semple McPherson. So can you just tell us

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Speaker 2: what stuck out to you about this woman, this subject

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Speaker 2: and made you decide to write this book.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean just kind of as a bridge, you know.

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Speaker 5: I decided in my twenties, I moved to New York

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Speaker 5: and I was like working as a freelance journalist, and

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Speaker 5: I went to journalism school, and then I ended up

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Speaker 5: getting into this program at the U University of Chicago

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Speaker 5: Divinity School that was like a master's just for religious

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Speaker 5: studies for people who want to do other things. So

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Speaker 5: I wanted to be a journalist and write about religion.

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Speaker 5: And I learned about Amy Simple McPherson there and I

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Speaker 5: just I was sort of like struck by her, you know.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I feel like everybody in America knows who

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Speaker 5: Billy Graham is, and she seemed almost more important and earlier.

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Speaker 5: But she was just this little paragraph for so in

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Speaker 5: a history of American religion book, and you know, yeah,

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Speaker 5: I read that she was this pioneer of Pentecostalism and

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Speaker 5: this pioneer of Christian entertainment and started the first megachurch,

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Speaker 5: had had one of the first Christian radio stations, and

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Speaker 5: that was it. That was all I read, and I

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Speaker 5: just was, yeah, I just kind of figured, like, oh,

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Speaker 5: that makes sense that she would be forgotten because patriarchy.

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Speaker 4: Can you kind of like give us a thought of

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Speaker 4: who she would be reminiscent of today as she kind

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Speaker 4: of like it because as we get into the story,

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Speaker 4: I mean, she's kind of like almost a Kim Kardashian

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Speaker 4: of religion or something.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like if Kim Kardashian and Joel Oustine but

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Speaker 5: also like Gwyneth and Oprah got all mixed together. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 5: you got it. Something.

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Speaker 4: This woman was famous, like yeah, and I've never heard

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Speaker 4: of her in my life until your book, but she

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Speaker 4: at the time had a giant church, bringing in thousands

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Speaker 4: of people, like using Hollywood. The church was in Hollywood,

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Speaker 4: using it as almost like it like she's using the

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Speaker 4: costume designers and bringing in animals and like putting on

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Speaker 4: a show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So how did she begin in the first place? And

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Speaker 2: what was the cultural context for this, because there was

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Speaker 2: this big Pentecostal shift happening in American religion, Like tell

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Speaker 2: us about that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean they sort of, like all things Pentecostalism

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Speaker 5: came from a bunch of different places, but the sort

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Speaker 5: of defining moment is considered the Azuza Street revivals in

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Speaker 5: downtown Los Angeles. Azuza Street is like a little almost

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Speaker 5: like an alley if you're in little Tokyo, just because

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Speaker 5: you guys are there worth checking out. Wow, it so

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Speaker 5: speaks to like the history of la Like literally a

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Speaker 5: quarter of the world's Christians are now Pentecostal and charismatic,

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Speaker 5: and Azusa Street is kind of basically an alley with

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Speaker 5: like a bunch of trash bins and a little gold

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Speaker 5: plaque that says like here marks the site.

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Speaker 1: Where the street like.

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Speaker 5: The site of a global religion. You're like, this is

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Speaker 5: our Jerusalem, you guys.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I had no idea. It's like a bigger sign

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Speaker 1: for Walt Disney on Gelson. Yeah, oh yeah, like Walt

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Speaker 1: Disney used to be here.

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Speaker 5: It's just what it's what LA value is true.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: She was living in Canada. She was a teenager, she

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Speaker 5: was seventeen. It was nineteen oh seven, and she went

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Speaker 5: into this church one night to basically make fun of

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Speaker 5: the people there with her father. She had heard that

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Speaker 5: there were Holy rulers there, which was sort of what

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Speaker 5: they were calling these early Pentecostals, and the movement had

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Speaker 5: spread from downtown Los Angeles where these revivals were happening

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Speaker 5: for months on end, and people came and learned about

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Speaker 5: the doctrine and brought it out into the world. And

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Speaker 5: one of those people was this young irishman who was

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Speaker 5: living in Chicago working as a shoe salesman. He became

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Speaker 5: a Pentecostal preacher and he made his way north into

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Speaker 5: northern Canada, into Ontario, and he went to this little

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Speaker 5: town and he was preaching there that night, and apparently

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Speaker 5: he was super hot.

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Speaker 4: And I was just going to say, having started because

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Speaker 4: he saw the description, is like I was like, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: you're like, I'm attracted to the description, and I know why.

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Speaker 4: Amy was like, you know what, I don't care about

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Speaker 4: school and games anymore.

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Speaker 1: I like religion. I have been, I've been touched by

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Speaker 1: the Holy always do.

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Speaker 5: It is actually those so important. Like it's funny, but

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Speaker 5: it's also like you just feel this like I mean

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Speaker 5: to use like a new age term, but like she

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Speaker 5: really felt like a heart opening, right, like an unlock,

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Speaker 5: you know, where She's just like, ah.

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Speaker 4: It's not the fact that an Irish man with bright

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Speaker 4: blue eyes is like.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, super tall with like a little Cala.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and he was like five years older than her,

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Speaker 5: and she was like, I'm in everything he said is true,

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Speaker 5: but she I think that I just paused there because

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Speaker 5: like for her, that like romantic feeling seemed to always

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Speaker 5: be part of her ministry, you know, like she always

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Speaker 5: kind of spoke in this romantic, rhapsodic way about religion,

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Speaker 5: you know, and about Jesus, Like it was just very

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Speaker 5: sort of a lot of love language. So anyway, I

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Speaker 5: will just speed up and say that she goes through

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Speaker 5: a couple of husbands and becomes an itinerant preacher and

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Speaker 5: sort of tries to be a normal person and it

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Speaker 5: doesn't work out, and she ends up traveling across the

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Speaker 5: southern and eastern United States as a lady evangelist and

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Speaker 5: people are really interested, Like it was pretty unusual then,

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Speaker 5: it's pretty unusual now and people would kind of like

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Speaker 5: come in for the freak show of seeing a woman preach,

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Speaker 5: but apparently like her charisma really drew people in. And

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Speaker 5: she I mean, this is why I sort of bring

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Speaker 5: up the Oprah aspect, Like it was very positive, Like

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Speaker 5: she wasn't a negative hell fire and brimstone pature. She

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Speaker 5: was really Yeah, it was very aspirational and loving, was

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Speaker 5: a very intimate relationship with Jesus. Pentecostalism I think just

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Speaker 5: by its nature has this thing where you're really connected

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Speaker 5: one on one, on a physical level with the Holy Spirit.

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Speaker 5: I say all this as like, I'm not a Christian

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Speaker 5: and you guys know more about this than I do.

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Speaker 5: But this is like my academic understanding of it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know about this particular, like it's my favorite

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Speaker 2: kind of Christianism. Christianism, that's my favorite kind because I mean,

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Speaker 2: even reading the book, I was like, I can feel

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Speaker 2: this warm and like, you know, I think, yeah, it

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Speaker 2: sounds like, I mean a more feminine style of pet

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Speaker 2: you're a direct conduit.

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Speaker 1: I like that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean I'm curious about like what was religion before,

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Speaker 2: Like how was it evolving?

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Speaker 1: What was the change that was happening.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it was. I mean that's a big question. Actually.

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Speaker 5: I mean I like I just felt like, oh, well,

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Speaker 5: that's actually there's so much that was happening. But I

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Speaker 5: think in general, I would say in America at that moment,

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Speaker 5: at the turn of the century, you know, there's just

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Speaker 5: a lot of change, and I think that's why It's

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Speaker 5: such an interesting moment to read about right now, because

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Speaker 5: I think people were really scared about the future and

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Speaker 5: technology and like the role of humanity and how people

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Speaker 5: would live and how people would work, and I mean

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Speaker 5: huge amounts of migration into cities and kind of the

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Speaker 5: fracturing of community and family life, and so I think

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Speaker 5: Amy My sense from reading a gazillion sermons of hers

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Speaker 5: is like she really connected to this sort of individuality

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Speaker 5: and a sense of agency, Like you could do things,

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Speaker 5: you had power, you had the ability to connect to

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Speaker 5: the divine, you were important. There was also kind of

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Speaker 5: this like, yeah, like really sensuous feeling of being in

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Speaker 5: the world, which I imagine at the same time everybody is

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Speaker 5: scared that they're going to become cogs in a factory machine,

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Speaker 5: probably felt like restorative.

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Speaker 1: Right reading her book, I was like, I needed her.

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Speaker 1: Can we have a new new Yeah? I mean I

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Speaker 1: think there are thousands of hers on TikTok so Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The confidence that that woman must have had to decide

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Speaker 2: that she's going to be a preacher in the nineteen

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Speaker 2: fucking twenties is so wild.

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Speaker 5: It's incredible. She had this mother who just instilled in

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Speaker 5: her a sense of purpose and saw her as divinely

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Speaker 5: prophecied and yeah, who just believed in her in this

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Speaker 5: way that gave Amy a sense of purpose and confidence.

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Speaker 5: That's that's incredible.

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Speaker 1: Her mom is like a religious stage mom.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I always use Chris Jenner as a well.

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Speaker 1: Her mom is such a religious Christianner.

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Speaker 2: It's like homish christ Jennerish to have.

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Speaker 4: A Christianner no matter what subject you're entering. And yeah,

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Speaker 4: you know, a stage mom, You have to have a

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Speaker 4: christ Jenner. Everybody needs a stage mom. Sure be your

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Speaker 4: own stage in.

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Speaker 1: Her stage mom.

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Speaker 4: But you know, yeah, I look at people who succeed

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Speaker 4: and I think your mom's kind of into it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, note not everyone, and some people are defining their yes.

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Speaker 2: So she was kind of a pioneer in that. She's

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Speaker 2: like explained to me how that what that was.

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Speaker 5: The pioneer part? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean she so

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Speaker 5: she kind of criss crosses the country. She's unusual for

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Speaker 5: being a woman. Oh. She also part of Pentecostalism is

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Speaker 5: defined healings. So people start to come see her and

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Speaker 5: there's the accounts of her performing these miraculous healings, and

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Speaker 5: so this draws ever larger crowds. Her mother Mini would

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Speaker 5: sign people up for subscriptions to their magazine along the

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Speaker 5: way and take checks. So it is, you know, there

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Speaker 5: was like a little business being built behind her. And

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Speaker 5: they come to Los Angeles in nineteen eighteen. You know,

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Speaker 5: there's like supposedly some of the first women to drive

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Speaker 5: alone across the Wow New highways. Yeah, they're really I mean,

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Speaker 5: she's a cool character and that she like really was

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Speaker 5: this kind of like pioneer or cowgirl type in a

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Speaker 5: lot of ways, and she really played that up. But

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Speaker 5: they got there and she just really connects with Los

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Speaker 5: Angeles and sees it as like the place that she

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Speaker 5: wants to like build stability. And she begins fundraising for

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Speaker 5: what will become the Angelus Temple, which locals called the

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Speaker 5: million Dollar Temple because it costs so much money. And

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Speaker 5: she did it love offering. By love offering, she had

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Speaker 5: people become chareholders, kind of capitalizing on the stock mania

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Speaker 5: of the time, so people would tie a certain amount

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Speaker 5: and get their name on a chair. And she built

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Speaker 5: it like a bit by bit, and it was built

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Speaker 5: by the Angels. Temple was built by the same builder

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Speaker 5: as the people who did Grauman so it was like

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Speaker 5: very movie palace.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, of a grand theater in yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. And so just to answer your end of that,

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Speaker 5: she would by the time it was built, and then

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Speaker 5: she started a radio station next year, she would perform

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Speaker 5: these big, illustrated sermons. And this was like really unusual

400
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Speaker 5: where she was using entertainment to spread the gospel, which

401
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,880
Speaker 5: hadn't quite been a thing the way that she made

402
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Speaker 5: it a thing, you know, I mean she would just

403
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Speaker 5: you mentioned this earlier, but yeah, like she would have

404
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Speaker 5: animals and props and a giant, like huge orchestra and

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Speaker 5: choir and.

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Speaker 1: Wow, just all this.

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Speaker 5: So, I mean it fit fifty three hundred people seated,

408
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Speaker 5: but apparently it was often closer to six thousand inside,

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Speaker 5: and then they would set up loudspeakers outside and on Sundays,

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Speaker 5: I think they would get over fifteen thousand people because

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Speaker 5: they would do three services a day.

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Speaker 2: So it was just my by gain, how did it

413
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Speaker 2: even get so much money? How did it get that big?

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Speaker 2: Like how did people find out?

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Speaker 5: It was word of mouth? And this became an issue

416
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Speaker 5: because like a lot of rival pastors were like mad

417
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Speaker 5: because people would leave their churches to go to that one,

418
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Speaker 5: which you're like a you could just sit there and

419
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Speaker 5: listen to like some guy drone on about hell, or

420
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Speaker 5: you could go watch like Tigers and Fire and right,

421
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Speaker 5: you know, this kind of gorgeous lady, you know, talking

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Speaker 5: about Jesus.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know who I would choose.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm all giving you a sense of like more

425
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Speaker 2: agency and like, yeah you matter to of course you're

426
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Speaker 2: going to choose that.

427
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Don't you think that Amy Lee from The Righteous Jumpstones

429
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Speaker 4: is named after her?

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Speaker 5: Maybe? Probably? I love The Righteous Jumpsy too.

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Speaker 1: That just kid to me anyway.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it sounds like she just was the

433
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Speaker 4: first influencer almost, like yeah, or at least in that

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Speaker 4: religious Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that's sort of you know, looking towards

436
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Speaker 5: the rest of her life. What became challenging, I would say,

437
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 5: without saying too much, is that she used herself as

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Speaker 5: the product, so to speak. And I mean, of course

439
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 5: that's something everybody does now, but it was kind of

440
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Speaker 5: an unusual approach at the time, you know. I mean,

441
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 5: this is like celebrities is sort of being invented at

442
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 5: that moment. And you know, her most famous sermon was

443
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 5: the story of my Life, and everybody knew who her

444
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 5: mother was. They knew who her kids were, like she

445
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 5: talked about she used her life to preach the gospel,

446
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 5: and she interwove herself into everything, you know, and her

447
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 5: picture was often on the front page of her magazine

448
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 5: like Oprah, you know what I mean. So it was

449
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 5: just like you really connected to who she was. But

450
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 5: I think that can have problems, do you think.

451
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 2: That, like looking back on it now, like was there

452
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 2: ever any element of control of her followers or was

453
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 2: it really more like influencer style where it's more about

454
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,160
Speaker 2: just having a following.

455
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 5: I didn't see control, so to speak. But I mean,

456
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 5: everybody's dead, so it's hard to know. I mean, you

457
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 5: know what I mean. There are like I mean, there

458
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 5: was a to flash forward. In the late nineteen twenties,

459
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,479
Speaker 5: one of her assistant pastors wrote this book about her

460
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 5: called Amy the Gospel gold Digger, and it was it

461
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 5: was mostly just about the performance of her and the

462
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 5: like you know, like that she would get a huge

463
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 5: thing of roses every night and be like, oh, thank

464
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 5: you, you guys love me so much, thank you. But she

465
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 5: was having them sent to herself. Oh my god. And

466
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 5: he was like, she's a fraud. You know what.

467
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 1: This woman is so extronic. Yeah, yeah, she is wild.

468
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, she is extra So can you explain the

469
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 2: feeding one point five million people thing?

470
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 5: Sure? I mean, essentially as far as I can tell.

471
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 5: You know, she started the suit kitchen right away in

472
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 5: right after the stock market fell apart in twenty nine,

473
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 5: and the city was like, I mean, the city was

474
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 5: like not so powerful of a city yet, and so

475
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 5: the firemen and the police and the women's auxiliary, they

476
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:25,199
Speaker 5: would all come down and work through her soup kitchen

477
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 5: and her services to do outreach. So they became kind

478
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 5: of like the conduit for outreach to the poor. I mean,

479
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 5: does that make sense?

480
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's pretty sick. That's pretty awesome.

481
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, No, I mean's she's like, this is why

482
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 5: I love hers, because she's like a riddle, you know.

483
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 5: I mean, she's she did a lot of amazing things,

484
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 5: and I think, you know, my sense of her is

485
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 5: that she was such a true believer, especially in the

486
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 5: first half of her life. I do think she was

487
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 5: a true believer throughout. But you get a sense of

488
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 5: like almost kind of shamanic style beginning where she's traveling

489
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 5: around just like like following the voice of God. Yeah,

490
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 5: so you know, she's nineteen twenty six. You know, her

491
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 5: church has been open for three years. Her radio is

492
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 5: radio station goes up and down the West coast. She's

493
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 5: become like more politically involved, so she's taking a stand

494
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 5: on local issues. She's fighting corruption in city hall at

495
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 5: the la Underworld, and there's signs of stream, you know,

496
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 5: like there's starting to be little cracks in the scene.

497
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 5: People in our congregation sent her on a vacation to Palestine,

498
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 5: as that's where you've vacationed in nineteen twenty six. Yeah,

499
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,199
Speaker 5: but there starts to be like also like whispers of

500
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 5: an affair, maybe with an employee who quits around this time,

501
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 5: her radio operator who was very key part of the

502
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 5: functioning of the temple. And to kind of blow off steam,

503
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 5: she begins to go down to Venice Beach in the

504
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 5: afternoons to swim in the ocean and work on her sermons.

505
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 5: And so on May eighteenth, nineteen twenty six, she goes

506
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 5: down with her assistant. They sit on their beach towels

507
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 5: and they she starts working on a sermon about light

508
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 5: and darkness, and she sends her assistant off to make

509
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 5: a phone call her assistant sees her walk into the

510
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 5: ocean and she disappears.

511
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: Woo yeah, I mean literally she's gone. Yeah, she's gone.

512
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: So what she's gone? What what did her sister to do?

513
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: What was the reaction?

514
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 5: Her assistant freaked out, and you know, starts walking up

515
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 5: and down the beach, you know, asking lifeguards to look

516
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 5: for her.

517
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: She literally lost Oprah.

518
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 5: She lost Oprah.

519
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you had one job.

520
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 4: You have to be like, she's missing that that would

521
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 4: be my god. Yeah yeah yeah, So she's freaking out.

522
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, And.

523
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 5: It's also like Oprah, but maybe like in Santa Barbara,

524
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, because it's not like Ellie's

525
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 5: not that big yet, so it's just kind of unfathomable.

526
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 5: And she is worried that she's drowned. So lifeguards start

527
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 5: looking for her. They notify the owner of the hotel

528
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 5: where they had rented the beach blankets and the umbrella from,

529
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 5: and you know, around four thirty that afternoon, they called

530
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 5: the temple to tell her mother, like, hey, like she's missing,

531
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 5: we're looking for her, and her mother was like, she's dead,

532
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 5: she's dead. Just bring the car back, get herself. Yeah.

533
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 5: It's a crazy reaction. Yeah, that I'm still like maybe

534
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 5: kind of parsing.

535
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: Honestly, if that was my mom's reaction, i'd be pissed. Yeah.

536
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, she's gone, She's got to get her stuff.

537
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 4: There's a religious detachment that happens though, when when you

538
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 4: are that religious, or she didn't really believe that she

539
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 4: was dead, yeah, or yeah, but like I have seen

540
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 4: in the two by people be like they're with Jesus

541
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 4: now they're dad.

542
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: Because they're like I'm going to see them and liked them.

543
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there was some of that, and I

544
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 5: think there was right away. Just for you guys, I

545
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 5: would say like she I think right away there was

546
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 5: a sense almost from her mom or like the language

547
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 5: that was used was as if she'd been raptured.

548
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: Oh you know, so yeah, that is why she's not even.

549
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, like she's vanished. She didn't drown, she vanished.

550
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: Because she's so righteous and virtuous.

551
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 7: Yeah.

552
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 5: There's a funny thing with the district attorney at one

553
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 5: point where he's like I don't understand what you mean,

554
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 5: and like, what do you mean she went to the Lord?

555
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 5: I mean she died, you know, And you're like, oh,

556
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 5: he's she's talking about the rapture and then doesn't want

557
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 5: to explain it, right, funny, but yeah, yeah, so they

558
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 5: it becomes just this city wide news story, right, So

559
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 5: tens of thousands of people come down to the beach.

560
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 5: I think within days there's forty thousand people gathered on

561
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 5: the beach holding a vigil looking for her. There scraping

562
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 5: the bottom of the ocean. There's planes and boats and divers.

563
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 5: One diver dies looking for her. Another devotee like jumps

564
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 5: in the water to be with her and die. So

565
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 5: two people die. They're printing news stories every day of

566
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 5: like the family and the mother, but also like the

567
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 5: radio operator, you know, like there's just like it's just

568
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 5: a big cauldron, crazy kind of pre reality TV. Yeah, scandal.

569
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 5: And about a month in they hold a memorial service

570
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 5: where they raise half a million dollars in today's money

571
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,959
Speaker 5: for her. And thirty six days after she disappears, she

572
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 5: walks in from the deserts of Mexico, six hundred miles away,

573
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 5: into somebody's backyard and asks for a telephone and they

574
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 5: take her to a hospital, and in the hospital she

575
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 5: tells them that she was kidnapped into what she called

576
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 5: white slavery, by the underworld and she had been held

577
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 5: a prison, she'd been tortured, and she had been being

578
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 5: punished for her virtuous acts. And right away there's questions.

579
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 2: So she just called she calls la and she's like,

580
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 2: I've been in white slavery and they're like, yes, sounds good.

581
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 4: And like yeah, I mean it's worth noting that she

582
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 4: had been somebody had tried to kidnap her before. Yes,

583
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 4: kind of Jennifer Anison thing where she's like, like she

584
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 4: had stalkers. Jennifer Anison just got a stalker or I said, yeah,

585
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 4: so like she she's had she has stalker, she has

586
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 4: people trying to kidnap her.

587
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 2: So it's not out of the realm. So it's not

588
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 2: completely out of left field, right.

589
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 5: Yes, exactly. Oh, thank you not reader, good reader.

590
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: I'm just like trying to put it because some people

591
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: did believe her.

592
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think at first everybody believed her.

593
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: Of course, this happens to very famous people, so that's

594
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: not crazy.

595
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, right, it wasn't It wasn't so crazy. I think

596
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 5: the issue was right away that the questions came because

597
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,719
Speaker 5: when she walked into the desert. Out from the desert,

598
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 5: she was wearing all white. She was wearing a corset,

599
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 5: a white dress and kind of like whitef okay ballet slippers.

600
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, aesthetics.

601
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 5: And they're like, oh, you're so clean, like that was

602
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 5: the guy in Mexico. Founder this guy was like this.

603
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 5: You know, sometimes there's like drunk women who wander through

604
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 5: the desert, but this lady was very clean, and she

605
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 5: wasn't sunburned, like she didn't have like, you know, plants

606
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 5: on her. But she had said she had run for

607
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 5: I think it was twenty miles some crazy amount, you know,

608
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 5: and made her way through the desert. And so they

609
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 5: right away, you know, are looking for the kidnappers. They

610
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 5: don't find any evidence of the shack where she said

611
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 5: she was escaped from, and the law you know men,

612
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 5: it's in Mexico, and like the Mexican government's kind of

613
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 5: annoyed about it because they're like, we know this land,

614
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 5: there's no shack, like you couldn't hold somebody like this

615
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 5: isn't like nowhere, it's somewhere, you know.

616
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 4: She started so much drama. It's like one o'clock in

617
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 4: the morning. This guy's just trying to go to bed.

618
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 4: Nobody's like nobody can understand her. They have to go

619
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 4: find somebody, and she's like, she's just a pot star.

620
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 5: I mean by that finanic, I mean, this is in

621
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 5: the book. But Dorothy Parker called her our Lady of

622
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 5: the loud Speaker, and the whole thing was just like

623
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 5: shut up.

624
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: You know, she was loud.

625
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 5: She was loud. But you know, they don't find any

626
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 5: evidence of the shack and she comes back to Los

627
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 5: Angeles and there's a grand jury hearing to sort of

628
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 5: ostensibly to look for the kidnappers, but really quickly the

629
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 5: sort of questions and the witnesses start to more be

630
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 5: about Amy's life and her business practices and her romantic

631
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 5: life and who she is and how she's conducted herself.

632
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 5: And you know, my sense is, yeah, I mean this

633
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 5: is kind of the heart of the book. So they

634
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 5: end up dismissing the grand jury without calling for charges

635
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 5: against the kidnappers. And she could have at that moment

636
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 5: sort of let it go, you know, like they it

637
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 5: would have just been dropped, but she she sort of

638
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 5: railed against the law enforcement for not finding them, and

639
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 5: within a couple of weeks, if even that much, there

640
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,879
Speaker 5: is starts to be witnesses who come out who say

641
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 5: that actually she was in northern California, in Carmel by

642
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 5: the sea in a love shack with a rented cottage

643
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 5: with the radio operator.

644
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 2: Oh scandalous, and two people have died looking for you. Yes, yeah,

645
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 2: I mean, like, do you have theories on her motivation?

646
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,919
Speaker 5: I mean sure, yeah. I mean I tried to make

647
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 5: the book, and I've gotten like a little bit of

648
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 5: blowbouck for this. I tried to really stick with the

649
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 5: facts for the book, just I mean, partially just being

650
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 5: a journalist, but also I mean, it's a hundred years

651
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 5: and there's never been a clear answer on what happened.

652
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 5: From the moment she walked in from the desert of

653
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 5: Mexico till the day she died. Told pretty much the

654
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 5: same story about what happened, kind of verbatim, right, And

655
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 5: there are just a bunch of witnesses who say that

656
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 5: she was in Carmel with this guy. And this guy

657
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 5: definitely wasn't Carmel. He ended up confessing to it. He

658
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 5: was a married man who had left his wife, who

659
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 5: was an Australian ice cream maress. I mean, the great

660
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 5: thing about this story, yeah, is that, like I mean,

661
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 5: I feel like I can say anything that happened because

662
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 5: the story itself, like there's so many crazy characters. Los

663
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 5: Angeles at this time was just like bananas.

664
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 4: You know.

665
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 5: There's like the only person who she could find who

666
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 5: said that they had actually seen the kidnappers was this

667
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 5: blind lawyer from the Port of Long Beach who's the

668
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 5: soul I Winness, who like worked for gangsters and was

669
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 5: a distant cousin of President McKinley, who I won't be

670
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 5: giving anything away to say, dies during the investigation by

671
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 5: drowning in a ditch with one feet of water.

672
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: Oh dude, it's yeah this I want to watch the show.

673
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: I do too. I mean, how did she get how

674
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: did she get out of the ocean?

675
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 5: Well, so, her version of events is that when she

676
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 5: had swum some laps, she was walking out and a

677
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 5: couple comes up to her on the beach like near

678
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 5: the water line, and they're like, hey, you know, our

679
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 5: kids really sick in the car, like will you come

680
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 5: heal the baby? Like we heard you were here, And

681
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 5: she's like, how did you know I was here? And

682
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 5: they say, oh, we went to the temple downtown, but

683
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 5: your mother said that you were here, So just please

684
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 5: come now, like the baby's going to die. And Amy

685
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 5: was like kind of used to being treated like that,

686
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 5: like oh, like an emergency service, like oh, yes, I

687
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 5: need to heal this person immediately, So that wasn't so unusual.

688
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 5: And so she says like, oh, let me just go

689
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 5: grab my clothes, and they're like no, no, come now.

690
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 5: They throw like a coat over her shoulders and they

691
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 5: walk her up to the street where there's a car waiting,

692
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 5: and she they opened the back seat to show where

693
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 5: the baby. She sees somebody sitting back there, and they

694
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 5: slam her in the car and put chemicals over her

695
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 5: mouth and she passes out and they drive her away.

696
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: But Megan, you don't think it's feasible. She just walked

697
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: to a different part of the beach. No, I do,

698
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: I do, I do I do.

699
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 2: I'm just curious she did not go into the ocean

700
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 2: and then a boat.

701
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 4: No, it's so odd that nobody saw this happen, you know, Like, yeah,

702
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 4: I mean.

703
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 5: It's an interesting thing, like there are you know that

704
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 5: I believe I'm saying this from memory that the head

705
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 5: of the Culver City Police Department said he saw her

706
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 5: driving away from the beach with a man.

707
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 1: Well that sounds more maybe accurate than the blind Yeah.

708
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, like yeah, I mean this is the thing. And

709
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,399
Speaker 5: then you know, I mean right away, even when she's

710
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 5: coming back to La from Arizona, she's on this train

711
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 5: and the train is stopping at these different towns and

712
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 5: somebody gets on the train. She's stopping and giving like

713
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 5: radio preaching, like they set up microphones at each stop

714
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 5: so she can preach to people and people can hear her.

715
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 5: And you know, this is like forty eight hours after

716
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 5: she's coming from the desert, and there's a guy who

717
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 5: comes in I believe it was from Tulsa and he's

718
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 5: like a city official there and he's like, I saw

719
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 5: you like three days ago walking around Tulsa.

720
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: Oh with a man.

721
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

722
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,439
Speaker 2: Just like initially hearing the story, my thought was, oh, well,

723
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 2: she just like wanted the attention that it would give her,

724
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 2: because you know, sometimes people fake having cancer, they fake.

725
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: She had a little munch munch housing first kidnapped a

726
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 1: thing that's happened.

727
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 4: I feel like when I was like twelve, I would

728
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,760
Speaker 4: have done something like that.

729
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 5: She did have a child.

730
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 4: Like expirit yeah, you know, and you're like I'm run

731
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 4: away and I was kidnapped.

732
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, give me attention and oops, I raised five

733
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars, right. Yeah.

734
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 2: But the fact that she was just like seemingly having

735
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 2: like a sordid love affair, it makes it more interesting

736
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 2: because you're like, is she just looking to like be

737
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 2: with this guy and she can't really like do it

738
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 2: in la and so she devised an elaborate scheme just

739
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 2: to like get away with it. But of course the

740
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 2: birth of money, she knew the money was going to happen. Yeah,

741
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 2: she's a complex character.

742
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 5: It's complex. Yeah, I mean I kind of want people

743
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 5: to draw their own conclusions. She did in the years

744
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 5: after her trial, suffer a lot of mental breakdowns, as

745
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 5: she called them. So I think there was, you know,

746
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 5: a lot going on for her, I would say. I

747
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 5: think also on the sort of empathetic front, she'd lived

748
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 5: in this tiny two veteran apartment attached the church, and

749
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 5: she was incredibly famous and thirty six, and you know it,

750
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 5: had been married when she was seventeen and lost that

751
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 5: husband to typhoid, and then had the second husband, who

752
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 5: seemed to be a bit of a disappointment for her,

753
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 5: who she left. And so you're kind of like, well,

754
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 5: she's thirty six, she's incredibly famous, she's in her prime,

755
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 5: and she can have no privacy and no yeah, like

756
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 5: no sex life, no romantic life, and she's not really

757
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 5: allowed to be something else. And I feel like giving

758
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 5: her like a little bit of grace or empathy, you

759
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 5: can kind of imagine that for whatever the reason was

760
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 5: she decided to do this thing, and for whatever the

761
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 5: reason was that she decided to come back, she convinced

762
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,280
Speaker 5: herself of its reality. That's I mean, if you're asking

763
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 5: me what I think, that's that's sort of my analysis

764
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 5: of it. But I I mean, my hope is some

765
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 5: people will read it and be like falsely accused.

766
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I think everybody's going to have their own conclusion.

767
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 4: And I go back and forth to be honest, So

768
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 4: mission accomplished.

769
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's no Oh, there's no smoking gun. There's nothing

770
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 5: that's like definitive. You know, they never found any like

771
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 5: truly solid. I mean there's well, there's a lot of

772
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 5: evidence which you could read.

773
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 4: Well, the book is fantastic, and I think it just

774
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 4: brings up so many amazing parallels to what.

775
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: We talk about a lot. And yeah, yeah, I mean, what's.

776
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 2: Your takeaway in terms of like just like how we

777
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:29,359
Speaker 2: view religious figures and famous people and how we sort

778
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,439
Speaker 2: of hold them up either in adoration and idealization or

779
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 2: in hatred before them being you know, evil and harmful.

780
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 2: Like how do these stories kind of shape your perspective

781
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:40,760
Speaker 2: on those things?

782
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think to go back to when

783
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 5: we were talking about my own experience, I feel like

784
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 5: that was one of my takeaways from doing the TM

785
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,760
Speaker 5: book is like I probably went in starting them memore

786
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 5: pretty like negative on TM and Mari she and by

787
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 5: the end I had this like just more ambiguity, I

788
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 5: would say, which is like a place that feels more

789
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 5: true to me these days. And I think with Amy,

790
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 5: you just see like this idea of what was good

791
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,760
Speaker 5: and bad, you know, what was right and wrong, being

792
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 5: so binary, and that she wasn't really allowed to be

793
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 5: complex and so yeah, I see this was like sort

794
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 5: of a punch out into crazy, right, like that was

795
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 5: the choice. And you know, I mean the last chapters

796
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 5: of the book deal with the cost or her which

797
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 5: was enormous. I mean she lived for I believe seventeen

798
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 5: eighteen more years after the trial, but that fame and

799
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 5: that criticism just kind of ate her from the inside,

800
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 5: you know, and there was bad behavior, continued bad behavior.

801
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 5: There were a lot of lawsuits. She ended up a

802
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 5: strange from her family. So I think in terms of fame,

803
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 5: you just see the cost of projecting like a single

804
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 5: version of yourself and committing to it, you know, and

805
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 5: being like this is who I am such a good

806
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 5: way I'm saying, yeah, but you know what I mean,

807
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,919
Speaker 5: Like I would never want to do that. I want

808
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 5: to be like, oh, you're not You're different than you

809
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 5: were in twenty seventeen. Who even remembers two thousand and seventy,

810
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 5: you know. Yeah, But when you turn that self into

811
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 5: a commodity and you're selling it and people are worshiping it,

812
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 5: you know, like that just it gets really complex. And

813
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 5: so I think deviance can happen, right Like that's I mean,

814
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 5: for want of a more nuanced word, But I think

815
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 5: you see that in a lot of church leadership. I

816
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 5: think you see it in a lot of celebrities, right

817
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 5: like where they're like, Okay, this is going to be

818
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 5: what I'm selling, this version of myself, but I'm going

819
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 5: to rebel in all these other ways, you know.

820
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 2: I just think of priests or like religious figures in general,

821
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 2: who are meant to be completely repressed and so frequently

822
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 2: aren't behind closed doors or they're they're acting out in

823
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 2: rejection of that repression.

824
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 1: I guess.

825
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just really fast Britney shaving her head I mean, right.

826
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 5: Right, I mean the original cover of this book was

827
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 5: a different photo that I kept being like, please don't

828
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 5: put that on there. That's like when Britney shaved her head.

829
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 5: Like that's the Britney shaving her head home movement, Like

830
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 5: you want you want this picture, you know, like you

831
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 5: don't want this sad? You know, there was a point.

832
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 5: I mean, she had a bad facelift and she was

833
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 5: strange from her family.

834
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: And it's they had facelifts back then.

835
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, in nineteen thirty she had a facelift with her

836
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 5: mother and then they got in a fistfight.

837
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 1: You read this in the book.

838
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 5: It's crazy, it's crazy. And then for the full Britney thing,

839
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 5: you know, she ended up in a conservatorship.

840
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 4: Wow, So are people just not meant to be famous?

841
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: It's famly so yeah.

842
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 5: I think it is.

843
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: I think it's a prison.

844
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:57,760
Speaker 5: It seems like the worst.

845
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and making kids do it is extre me.

846
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 5: Yeah. I think anytime we elevate somebody else above us

847
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 5: and like attribute special powers to them and kind of

848
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 5: worship them in whatever way for it, and decide like

849
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 5: they're different than me, and they get to act a

850
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 5: different way and behave a different way, and are going

851
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 5: to be treated a different way. It's just like it's

852
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 5: like a psychological experiment, you know, like it immediately seems

853
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 5: to go wrong.

854
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 1: Great point.

855
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then we just so naturally gravitate, like hierarchy

856
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 2: just naturally forms.

857
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 1: And how do you what do you? What do you

858
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: do about it?

859
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 4: Stay alone in your room, you don't look at anyone, yes, yes,

860
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 4: and you don't form relationships.

861
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: And perfect sounds like a have you life. That's the

862
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: way I cannot make hierarchies.

863
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 5: I'm so glad we're on the same Yeah.

864
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 4: Well, the book is absolutely amazing. Tell us where they

865
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,240
Speaker 4: can find you, tell us all breathing.

866
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I've been traveling around. I'm sort of

867
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:05,439
Speaker 5: on the tail end of It'll be in New York

868
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 5: next week, but and I have a couple stops over

869
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,760
Speaker 5: the next few months. But the book is for sale

870
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 5: everywhere the books are sold.

871
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: And tell us the name one more time.

872
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,839
Speaker 5: It is Sister Sinner. The Miraculous Life and Mysterious Disappearance

873
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 5: of Amy Simple McPherson.

874
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 4: Amazing original Kim Kardashian disappearance story for in the Ages.

875
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: Get in it.

876
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 4: It is a page turner. Thank you, thanks so much

877
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:32,919
Speaker 4: for talking to us.

878
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 5: Thanks you, guys, this was amazing.

879
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: Wowie wow wow wow.

880
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 4: Couldn't have said it better myself. Damn, can't believe it.

881
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 4: Never heard of this woman.

882
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would really love to see the biopic.

883
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't even lie.

884
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:51,240
Speaker 2: Do you think, Megan, that you would join Amy Simple

885
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 2: McPherson's church yesterday?

886
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 4: Sign me up, yesterday, take me on the time machine,

887
00:46:57,719 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 4: bring me back, sign me up?

888
00:46:59,480 --> 00:46:59,839
Speaker 1: I love.

889
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 4: I want to be in her church. Oh, I want

890
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 4: to watch the show. Oh and I even want to

891
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 4: work for her. What because she was like putting on

892
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 4: basically carnival shows for the Sunday things. Like she was

893
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 4: just ahead of her time. She was fun she was funny.

894
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 4: Like I mean, it really sucks that two people died

895
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 4: looking for her.

896
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 2: But yeah, if you were her follower at that time,

897
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 2: I'm like, what would disillusion you?

898
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 1: It'd be the lie?

899
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 2: I guess mainly right, the lie people do protect her,

900
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 2: and I'd go, hey, you guys we pushed her into.

901
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: That, I'd double down on it.

902
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 2: But then like also she wanted to go, Yeah, the

903
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 2: inner workings of a human mind, you just never know

904
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 2: what the true motivation is. And this is why the

905
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 2: biopic will explore these questions.

906
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: Hire me to direct it. Yep.

907
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 2: I think I'd be fascinated by her. I watched the Kardashians,

908
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like, I'm fascinated by women

909
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 2: icons in culture, even if I don't always like what

910
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 2: they're doing, I find it very fascinating and I still

911
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: always just like love watching women content. So like, I

912
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 2: think I think i'd be like into it even if

913
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 2: I was like this bitch is yeah, and I just

914
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 2: love the Carnival Yeah, selling snake oil, Yeah, totally. I

915
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 2: mean I guess that's not true though, because there are

916
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 2: televangelists now who are women, right, and I do not

917
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 2: want to watch that.

918
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:30,399
Speaker 1: No, I mean she was ahead of her time. That's

919
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: the whole point.

920
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 4: Like it's been done, Tammy Faye Baker, Like that was

921
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 4: still kind of an iconic moment. She was kind of major,

922
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 4: but after that, like we're over.

923
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 2: It the language you've used in that sense to us,

924
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 2: it's so funny, kind of major iconic. We're over it,

925
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 2: like yeah, we've seen it. No we haven't seen it.

926
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah maybe that's why.

927
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

928
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 2: Maybe at the time I'd be like, wow, groundbreaking, thanks

929
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 2: for listening to us, guys. I'm gonna plug my own

930
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 2: song here and like relevant topically. Also, I directed a

931
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 2: music video for you guys, and I uh take my

932
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 2: own heart out on stage. So if you want to

933
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 2: watch that, google everybody Lola Blanc music video or some

934
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 2: version of that. You don't have to google it in

935
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 2: that exact order, just google it. It's on my YouTube.

936
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 2: So we're gonna play. We're gonna go out on my

937
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 2: song everybody.

938
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 6: When I get ahead of the editions started thinking zeros

939
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 6: and wounds, I'll becoming not a Matician counting up the trophy.

940
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 1: I'm going for gratification.

941
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 3: But I don't have a problem swear.

942
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: It's nothing like a fixation.

943
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:49,399
Speaker 3: Swell it.

944
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: I'm coming undone.

945
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:53,760
Speaker 5: Fill the hole.

946
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: With the follow.

947
00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 3: My sole.

948
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 7: Hollie.

949
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 6: It is for everybody, everybody.

950
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 3: When everybody's me, then of finally be happy, then the

951
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 3: finally race and when everyone around me says that I

952
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 3: am a standing when the finally the bast.

953
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 7: Something's coming up. Oh don't look now, that's a no.

954
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: No take jo pause and a swallow.

955
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 6: Struck in the pursuit of perfection. Then my body twisted

956
00:50:56,239 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 6: around late at night, look on the obsession. I do

957
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 6: not let anyone down, and jold if ivery standing ovation

958
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 6: after they give me the ground, still alone with on

959
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 6: my ambitions coming out.

960
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 5: Everybody everybody, when.

961
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:34,879
Speaker 3: Everybody deals men be happy, really waste And when everyone leading.

962
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: Around miss m a.

963
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 3: S down a way finally the best fine.

964
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 7: Cure?

965
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 3: Do you ever do about it?

966
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 1: Can you really live without it?

967
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 7: Mother?

968
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 6: Ever started down?

969
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 1: And can you really without it?

970
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 3: I care?

971
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 7: I can't.

972
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:14,399
Speaker 6: When everybody loves me a finally be happy a.

973
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 8: Final erast, And when everyone knowround me says I'm astounding

974
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:38,720
Speaker 8: when I am the best everybody died, everybody died, When

975
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 8: everybody loves me them a finally be there finally erast.

976
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 3: And when everyone knows around me says that you stounding

977
00:52:54,320 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 3: where finly the best? A little fat, cute, cute, lonely man.

978
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,280
Speaker 4: Megan take it away, all righty, thank you for spending

979
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 4: another week with us. As always, remember to follow your gut,

980
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 4: watch out for red flags.

981
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: And never ever trust me. Bye Bye me.

982
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 2: This has been an exactly right production hosted by Me

983
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 2: Lola Blanc and.

984
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: Me Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is Gee Holley. This

985
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: episode was mixed by John Bradley. Our associate producer is

986
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 1: Christina Chamberlain, and our.

987
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 4: Guest booker is Patrick Kuttner.

988
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: Our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

989
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 4: Trust Me as executive produced by Karen Kilgareth Georgia Hardstark

990
00:53:58,960 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 4: and Danielle Kramer.

991
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 2: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me podcast

992
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 2: or on TikTok at trust.

993
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 1: Me Cult podcast.

994
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 4: Cut your own story about cults, extreme belief, our manipulation.

995
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 4: Shoot us an email at trustmepodat gmail dot com.

996
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 2: Listen to trust Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

997
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts