1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: You looked at it from the outside in. You know, 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: people would say, well, dropping on the college that was 3 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:08,079 Speaker 1: a pretty big risk. Taking the company private, that was 4 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: a pretty big risk. Doing the largest tech acquisition ever 5 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: with fifty or sixty billion dollars a debt, you know, 6 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: that was a pretty big risk. But you know, to me, 7 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: they actually didn't seen that risk. Hey, everyone, welcome back 8 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. 9 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: Thanks to each and every single one of you that 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now, 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: today's guest is someone that I was really excited to 12 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: have today on the show because I think there's so 13 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: many moments in his life where he's gone through experiences 14 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: that we can all learn from. I'm talking about none 15 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: other than Michael Dell, the chairman and chief executive officer 16 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: of Dell Technologies and innovator and technology leader, providing the 17 00:00:55,520 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: essential infrastructure for organizations to build their digital future. Now. 18 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: He's the author of two books, including the next upcoming book. 19 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: The one that I really want you to read is 20 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: Play Nice but Win, a CEO's Journey from Founder to Leader. 21 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: I love the title. I've already loved chapters of the 22 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: book that I've read and I cannot wait for you 23 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: to read it. Michael is an honorary member of the 24 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: Foundation Board of the World Economic Forum and as an 25 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: Executive Committee member of the International Business Council. I welcome 26 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: to the show, Michael Dell. Michael, thank you for taking 27 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: the time to do this. I cannot wait for people 28 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 1: to read your book, and I'm so lucky that I 29 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: get to sit down with you as the author of 30 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: the book before everyone gets too So thank you so 31 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: much for your energy. Yeah, thank you, Jay. Great to 32 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 1: be with you and great to be with your audience. Yeah. I, 33 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: like I said, I love the title. I want to 34 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: dive into the book a bit later, but I want 35 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: to start off with asking you a question that I've 36 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: been asking a lot of people recently, because I think 37 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: there's something beautiful about learning about this. So I'll share 38 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: with you a story. I was I work with a 39 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: lot of core but clients as a speaker or a coach, 40 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: and I was speaking on my clients recently, and of 41 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: course we're on zoom and he's got something in his 42 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: background and I'm wondering what it is. And he has 43 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: a paintbrush hanging on his background wall, and it's a 44 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 1: real paintbrush, and it's a big paint brush. You can't 45 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: miss it. And I said to him, I said, look, 46 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to be creepy, but I'm just being curious. 47 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: Why do you have a paintbrush on your wall? And 48 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 1: he said he started laughing. He said, no one's ever 49 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: asked me that before. And I was thinking, wow, like 50 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 1: people must really be scared of you. But he said that. 51 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: He said that the reason he has it is because 52 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: his first ever job was that he used to paint fences, 53 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: and then when he did that successfully, he painted walls. 54 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: And then when he did that successfully, he got to 55 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: paint homes. And he keeps that paintbrush up there to 56 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,119 Speaker 1: remind him of where he started. Today, he's a very 57 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: successful executive. I wanted to ask you, what was your 58 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: first ever ever job that you did, and is there 59 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: a lesson that you learned there that you've carried with 60 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: you throughout your success? Yeah? You know, I first of all, 61 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: I'm big believer in those early jobs. You know, my 62 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: first job, I was twelve years old. I was a 63 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: dishwasher in a Chinese restaurant. I got promoted to a 64 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: water boy and then assistant mater d So I was 65 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: moving up pretty fast, and I got recruited away by 66 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: another restaurant, and I've been working every day since then 67 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: pretty much, and I have to say I've loved it. 68 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: That's incredible. Do you do you mind me asking how 69 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: much did you used to make at the time as 70 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: a twelve year old? I guess it was like this 71 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: would have been in nineteen seventy seven. So what was 72 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: the minimum wage back then? Like a dollar or two 73 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: dollars or you know, something like that. It wasn't very much. Yeah, 74 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: what would you save it up for? Like? What were 75 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: you doing with that money at that time? What was 76 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: it leading to it? Yeah? So at the time, I 77 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: was into stamps and I started, you know, I was 78 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: collecting stamps and then I started like buying and selling stamps. 79 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: I ran a stamp auction. I got into stocks and 80 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: you know, currencies when when I was like fourteen fifteen, 81 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: started investing my mom was a stockbroker, really got interested 82 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: in financial markets, you know, around fourteen fifteen. It was 83 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: sort of the dawn and the microprocessor age, and I 84 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: happened to, you know, get exposed to the origins of 85 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: what became the PC and that obviously impacted my life 86 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: in a big way. If you're a twelve year old today, 87 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 1: you'd be doing NFTs and crypto and that would be 88 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: a whoad I'm guessing seeing is probably yeah, yeah, you know, 89 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: now there's so many interesting things going on with you know, technology, 90 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: and you know the intersection of the biological sciences and 91 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: the computational sciences, and you know, it used to be 92 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: technology was about it departments and stuff like that. Now 93 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: it's pretty much affecting everything, and every business is getting 94 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: upended in some way by technology and AI and data 95 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: and networks. And it's super exciting to see the pace 96 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: that the economy is changing with technology at the fulcroom 97 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: of that. Absolutely, And I know that you dropped out 98 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: of college, and a lot of successful founders have dropped 99 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: out of college, and I'm not at all recommending that 100 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 1: or encouraging that, and either of you. I'm intrigued to 101 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: think about, though, if you've finished your degree, how differently 102 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: do you think your life would have gone. That's the 103 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: first part of the question, And the second part of 104 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: the question is what gave you the courage to actually 105 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: drop out and pursue something which at the time, as 106 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: you said, was very new and very cutting edge and innovative, 107 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: but people didn't really have a lot of certainty and 108 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: surety around it. Yeah, you know, it seemed like I 109 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 1: have an easy decision for me. I mean, let me 110 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: start with the first part. You know, what would have 111 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: happened if I'd graduated. I don't know. Oh, I don't 112 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: know that I would have gone down this path. I 113 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,679 Speaker 1: might be like a you know, a doctor in Houston somewhere, 114 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 1: you know, which is what my parents wanted me to be. 115 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 1: But you know, when when I started, first of all, 116 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: if you have nothing, you have nothing to lose, right, 117 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: So it's it's pretty easy decisions. You know, the University 118 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: of Texas here in Austin, you can take a semester 119 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: off and come back with no academic penalty. So that 120 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: was kind of the deal I made with my parents 121 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: that I would go do this for a while and 122 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: if it worked out, I would keep doing it, and 123 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: if it didn't, I go back to school. So you know, 124 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: it didn't seem like an enormous risk to me. My 125 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: parents were were pretty upset with me, for sure, because 126 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: you know, when the world they came from, giving up 127 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 1: an opportunity for an education was like the worst thing 128 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: you could possibly do, but you know, all it all 129 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: worked out. I love that. I want to hear more 130 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 1: about that interacts me with your parents, Michael, because I 131 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: feel there are so many children today and young people 132 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: and young adults. They go through the same experience as 133 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: you did. They either want to quit, or they want 134 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: to start something new, or they're on the verge of 135 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: an idea they have but they don't have the confidence 136 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,239 Speaker 1: their parents might not be into it. What does someone 137 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: look to at that time, at that early stage in 138 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: their career where they don't have the wins on their 139 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: list yet, they don't have the successes, but they want 140 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: to follow their dreams, follow their passion, follow their heart. 141 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: What advice do you have for someone who's in that 142 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: position right now? Well, it's it's difficult and extremely emotional, 143 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: and I talk about this in the book and the 144 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: kind of struggle that I had with that and with 145 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: my parents. You know, ultimately I just decided that I 146 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: was going to do this whether or not I had 147 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: their approval, you know, which which was which was a 148 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: really tough thing to do, and my mother was was 149 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: unbelievably upset with me, and I would say it took 150 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: about a year or two, maybe three to sort of 151 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: fully get through that. I don't know that there is 152 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: universal advice here other than if you are in a 153 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: situation where you can take the risk and you don't 154 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: have a lot to lose and you can fall back 155 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: on something else. You know. Look, I think a lot 156 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: of people don't achieve even a small fraction of what 157 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: they're capable of because they're afraid to fail and they're 158 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: not willing to take on more risk. And there's a 159 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: lot of potential that's left on the field that never 160 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: gets utilized because people want the perfect plan, or they 161 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: want to do what they're supposed to do, or they're 162 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: just not willing to take on that risk. And we 163 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: need people to take on risk, not just for new companies, 164 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: but you know, for existing companies and to redo and 165 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: rethink and reimagine our world. You know, we can't just 166 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: like do a little bit better version of what we 167 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: had before. We have to constantly be reimagining things. You 168 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: spoke a lot about risk, then, Michael, I'm wondering, what 169 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:12,439 Speaker 1: do you think is the biggest risk you ever took. 170 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 1: You said that decision was fairly easy. What do you 171 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: think What was the time when you feel like, yeah, 172 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: I took a big risk, and whether it paid off 173 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: or not, I'd love to hear about how it panned out. 174 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: But what was the biggest risk you ever took? If 175 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: you looked at it from the outside in, you know, 176 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 1: people would say, well, dropping on a college that was 177 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: a pretty big risk. Taking the company private that was 178 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: a pretty big risk. You know, doing the largest tech 179 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: acquisition ever with fifty or sixty billion dollars a debt, 180 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: that was a pretty big risk. But you know, to me, 181 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: they actually didn't seen that risk right because I, you know, 182 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: sort of on a risk adjusted basis, I could see 183 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: my way through to the opportunity and could it have 184 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: all gone wrong, sure, but I didn't think it was 185 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,839 Speaker 1: going to It's also a situa where, you know, if 186 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: I had sat there and said, Gee, should I drop 187 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: out of school? Should I not drop out of school? 188 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: Let's go talk to ten or one hundred people and 189 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: ask them what they think. Probably most of them would 190 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: have told me you're crazy for dropping out of school. Okay, 191 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: I didn't ask anybody, you know, that wasn't how I 192 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: was thinking about it. Yeah, what would you say would 193 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: be your biggest failure to a day that you feel 194 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: like you were down and out where it was a 195 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 1: really tough situation. Was there a moment where things really 196 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: felt like they weren't working out? When would when would 197 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: that have been? Well, look, there've been plenty of times, 198 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: and you know, I think what people maybe fail to 199 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: understand is that embedded in success are failures, right, And 200 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: at the root of success you have kind of curiosity, learning, experimenting, 201 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:54,119 Speaker 1: and failure, and without those things, you don't have any success, right, 202 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: And so failures are not necessarily bad, you know, especially 203 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: if you're learning from them. And so, yeah, we had 204 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: all kinds of failures along the way to uh, you know, 205 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: cumulative revenues of about one point four trillion dollars, right, 206 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, you know, early on, we had 207 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: some super ambitious technical projects that failed, and we learned 208 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: from that. We built a lot of capability that allowed 209 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: us to create all kinds of new new products. As 210 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: a result, we had inventory planning challenges early on that 211 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: led us to be really world class that supply chain 212 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: management because we had to right and you know, necessities 213 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: the mother invention and the key is to learn from 214 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: the failures and correct them quickly and hopefully not make 215 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: the same mistakes over and over again. And if you 216 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: can learn from other people's mistakes, you know, learn from 217 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: from your new mistakes that you're making and correct them quickly, 218 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 1: you're going to be very successful. You've got to be 219 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: willing to experiment and fail. The other thing is, you know, 220 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: when you're when you're going into new areas, there's no playbook, right, 221 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: there's you can't like read a book or talk to 222 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: an expert like tell you how to do this. You 223 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: just have to start. I love that, Thank you, Michael no. 224 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 1: I love hearing that. It's always it's always wonderful to 225 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: hear of someone who seems to be having fun and 226 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: growing continuously and enjoying life on the journey as well. 227 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: And I want to come to your book now. You know, 228 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 1: play nice, but when a CEO's journey from founder to leader. 229 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about the tie tool for a bit. 230 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: When you hear the words play nice, but when were 231 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: these words that you said a lot? Were these words 232 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: that you heard a lot? How did these words take 233 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: shape in your life? Yeah? So, my two brothers and I, 234 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: you know, when we were little kids, and we would 235 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: go out in the street and play ball with our friends. 236 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: That's what our parents told us. You know, almost every 237 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,839 Speaker 1: time they say it, played high school win. And so 238 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: it kind of became this philosophy of you know, let's 239 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: not forget about the winning part, right, but we're gonna 240 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: we're gonna play nice, we're gonna play fair, We're gonna 241 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: do it, you know, kind of ethically responsibly. But yeah, 242 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: well's we're aded to win, right. And so I kind 243 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: of been something that's just stuck with me ever since 244 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: I was a little kid, and it goes back to 245 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: my childhood, and I talk about that in the book 246 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: as well. Did you ever meet anyone along the way 247 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: that tried to challenge that and tell you it wasn't possible. 248 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: I tell you, you you had to play ruthless, you had 249 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: to play bad and win like Was there anyone who 250 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: challenged that? And not specifically, I don't need you to 251 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: tell me exactly who I'm just saying, was there anyone 252 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: who really debated and challenged that hypothesis and said, my 253 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: cod this is not gonna work. You're gonna have to 254 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,839 Speaker 1: play unfair? And was there anyone in your life that 255 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: you met that completely disagreed with that statement. Well, look, 256 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: I you know, I've been running our company for thirty 257 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: seven years. I mean, I believe markets are are long 258 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: term efficient, right, And you know, I think everything sort 259 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: of comes back to you in a good way, you know, 260 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: or a bad way if you're playing the other side. 261 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: And I've just kind of avoided the opposite path and 262 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: it's worked for me. And you know, it just feels 263 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: right to me. And at the end of the day, 264 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: you know, you have to feel right about what you're doing. 265 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: And you know, when I'm ninety or one hundred or 266 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: hopefully older, I want to be proud of everything I 267 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: did and the way I did it. And that's just 268 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: really important to me. So and look, I've I've run 269 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: into plenty of people that didn't play nice, and I 270 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: just tried to, you know, certainly not have a in 271 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: our company, you know, avoid doing business with them to 272 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: the extent I could. And that's what's worked for me. Yeah. 273 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: Was there ever a time, though, that you felt pressured 274 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: that you might have to change your approach to win 275 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: or was it always easy to stay to that? I 276 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: just I feel like I love it. By the way, 277 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: I completely agree with you, Like I think my favorite 278 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: way to win is to play nice, and the best 279 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: way to play nice is to make sure you win. 280 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: So I love that approach to life. I'm just wondering 281 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: whether there were any times where you actually maybe just 282 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: had a thought and you thought, well, maybe if I 283 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: didn't play so nice, maybe i'd win more, Maybe i'd 284 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: maybe I would be more successful if I did this 285 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: or did this thing. Did you ever have that debate? 286 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: Did you ever have that thought internally or were you 287 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: always convinced that this was not for a second. I mean, 288 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: it wouldn't feel right to win if I had cheated 289 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: it or done in an unscrupulous way, you know. And 290 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: I talk about in the book some of the early 291 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: former of experiences where we had people that did things 292 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: that weren't exactly correct right in one way or another, 293 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: and it really surprised me. Maybe I was naive, or 294 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: I think people love the clarity of knowing what we 295 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: stand for right and knowing that we don't change the 296 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: rules depending on who it is or how important it 297 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: is or anything like that. It's like, hey, we're very 298 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: clear about the ethical standards that we uphold as a company, 299 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: and it's just a lot easier that way. I love 300 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: hearing that, trust me, I'm so happy to hear that 301 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: because I think value based business is so needed in 302 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: the world right now, and when we look at things 303 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: like conscious capitalism and the idea of creating wealth, creating 304 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: impact through values and through purpose and through mission. It's 305 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: beautiful to hear that you never even got you know, 306 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: you never even had a moment of doubt. I love 307 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: hearing that because I think it shows what's possible. I 308 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: wonder there's a lot of our listeners who may be 309 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: trying to decide between entrepreneurial employee and you know, today, 310 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: because the entrepreneurial life mindset has become so mainstream culture 311 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: and accessible, a lot more people are thinking in that direction. 312 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: I wonder, what can you do to teach us about 313 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: the difference between the entrepreneur mindset and the employee mindset? 314 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:27,479 Speaker 1: And what difference is people can see so that they 315 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: can see where they're best placed. When things get pretty heated, 316 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: you I think you see more opportuners, you know, and 317 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 1: not necessarily the pure entrepreneurs. And you know, that's okay. 318 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: Everybody could choose their own path, you know, in my experience. 319 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 1: It's not for the faint of heart right to go 320 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: start a business. I mean, it is all in And 321 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: you know when I started, fortunately I was nineteen years 322 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: old and I could work eighteen hours a day and 323 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: sleep with the office and had no responsibilities, you know, 324 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: uh in terms of family or any anything like that. 325 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: And I had the kind of physical statement to work 326 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: like a maniac for several years, which that's sort of 327 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: what it took at the beginning. Fortunately that didn't have 328 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 1: to perpetuate. But yeah, I mean it's not all glamorous 329 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: and success and and there are plenty of businesses that 330 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,199 Speaker 1: don't work out. And yeah, I mean it's easy to 331 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: look at the successful businesses and say, wow, it was 332 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 1: just straight up, you know, and to the right forever. 333 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 1: It's like, not exactly, it's not exactly the way it 334 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: goes really in any business. But yeah, I mean it's 335 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: it's a very personal decision in terms of what someone's 336 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: risk appetite is, and you know, are they willing to 337 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: take all that on? And you know, when you put 338 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: your head down at night, you're thinking about all those 339 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: people that you're responsible for. I loved having chapter three. 340 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: You said, you know you don't start a company if 341 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 1: you're not an optimist. You know that there has to 342 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: be that optimism. And part of your optimism was the 343 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: openness to compete with IBM and to you know, to 344 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: challenge a long established company even when you were young. 345 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 1: Where did that confidence come from? Where did that ambition, 346 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: that desire come from? That gave you so much confidence 347 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: and strength and that sort of a mindset. I guess 348 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: if I was being objective looking at it now, I'd 349 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 1: say there was some naivete there for sure as well, 350 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: But all that mixture was pretty powerful. And you know 351 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: what I saw when I looked at the IBMPC back 352 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty one when it first came out. It 353 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: just had the fortieth anniversary a month or two ago 354 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: of the IBM PC was it was this thing they 355 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: sold for like three thousand dollars, but it had five 356 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: hundred dollars worth of parts in it, and none of 357 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: the parts were made by IBM. So to my teenage mind, 358 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: it kind of seemed like a criminal enterprise. You know, 359 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: It's like, why does it cost so much and why 360 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: does it take so long? And why can't it be faster? 361 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 1: And you know, had a ton of ideas, and it's 362 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: hard for people to really understand right now, but back 363 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen eighties, IBM was not just the 364 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: most successful, you know, computer company. They were like unbelievably 365 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: dominant in this field, unlike any other company except maybe 366 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,439 Speaker 1: like Standard oil. You know, back in the day, they 367 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: just dwarfed any other company in the IT slash data 368 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 1: processing field. Obviously very different thirty forty years later, but 369 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: at the time they were the giant. And they were 370 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: also like the most valuable company in America, right, so 371 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: it was a big business. But hey, they seem vulnerable 372 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: to me. I up that example of what you said, 373 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: like looking at it and seeing a criminal enterprise because 374 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 1: of the you know, because of the shocking difference between 375 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 1: the parts and the pieces. And you're right, I mean, 376 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: I grew up in a world where IBM was still 377 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: very powerful. But I know what you mean. You're talking 378 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: about the scale of it at the time, and you 379 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: talk about in chapter seven the fight for Dell to 380 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 1: go private, and it's been like a long disruptive process 381 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: for everyone that's involved. And you mentioned in the book 382 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 1: that in del you had this saying of failure is 383 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: not an option. I want to know what kept you 384 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: going in that fight to make it private, Like, what 385 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: was the thing that kept you consistently fighting? Because sometimes 386 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,199 Speaker 1: we're fighting for fighting sake, But in this situation, that 387 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: wasn't it. You were fighting for something more important and 388 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: more deep. Where did that come from? Yeah? You know, 389 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: I really felt that going private would allow us to 390 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: accelerate our transformation, and it would allow us to kind 391 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 1: of ignite the entrepreneurial risk taking, a spirit that was 392 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: the origin of the company. And you know, I think 393 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: Winston Churchill said something to the effect that, you know, 394 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: if you're going through hell, you know, keep going, all right. 395 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: So we were in the middle of it. It's not 396 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: easy to like stop and say we're just kid never 397 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: mind forget it. You know, I guess we could have 398 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: done that, But once you get started, it was a 399 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 1: fight worth winning. I thought we could win, you know, 400 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: I thought it was truly believed that it was a 401 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: very important thing for the company to do at that 402 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: time to inflect the transformation. And we can look back 403 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: seven years later and say, yeah, good, good thing we 404 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: did that. Everyone else can make the connections in hindsight, 405 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: but you were able to make the connections in the process, 406 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: and I think that's always what's hot of but another 407 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: area of your life apart from your professional success of course, 408 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: but you one of the few people who have this 409 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: red personal success too, with your wife, your four children, 410 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 1: And I wanted to understand you probably get asked the 411 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 1: work life balance question a million times. I personally don't 412 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: believe in balance. I think it's a myth. I'm not 413 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 1: convinced that it's real, and I think that it's actually 414 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 1: causes more pressure than creates fuel in our lives when 415 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: we're constantly trying to balance. I wanted to understand what 416 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: was your journey in creating a successful professional life, an 417 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 1: extremely successful professional life, but also managing to have a real, 418 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:34,479 Speaker 1: genuine personal life as well. Yeah, so, first of all, 419 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: I think when you're starting a business, you know, this 420 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 1: idea of balance, you know, just forget about it. It's like, 421 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's like you're you're not going to have it. So, 422 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,239 Speaker 1: you know, if you're thinking, oh, I'm going to be 423 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: an entrepreneur, I'm gonna start a company and I'm a 424 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 1: great work life balance and it's not gonna happen. Right 425 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: If it is, it's a foreign thing to me. I 426 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: don't understand how how you could do that. But you know, 427 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 1: once you have a business kind of up and running 428 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: and you're into year, ten, year, fifteen, year, twenty, right, 429 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: you've got systems and processes and people, and well, what 430 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: you find is there's a diminishing return to the number 431 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: of hours worked. And also you know your happiness is 432 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 1: impacted and you don't have to do everything yourself, and 433 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: you sort of always kind of are reassessing what is 434 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 1: the point of impact where I can make a meaningful 435 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: impact on the company and you know, cause something great 436 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: to happen, And I'm not going to do that in 437 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,479 Speaker 1: my ninetieth hour or one hundredth hour of work in 438 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 1: a week, right, you know there's a sweet spot there. 439 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: And so yeah, I also consciously wanted to have a 440 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: family and children and a family life and that kind 441 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,719 Speaker 1: of grounding that I had as a child, and that 442 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: was something I really desired. So I sought it out 443 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: and planned planned my life in that way because I 444 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 1: also knew that, you know, if I kept working for 445 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: another ten plus years and didn't have that, I would 446 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: be unhappy. Yeah, And but I'm sure that there were 447 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: those tough decisions to make like, I'm sure there were 448 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: moments where maybe your wife and your children wanted your time, 449 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 1: but you had to be at an important meeting, or 450 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: you had to be on a plane, or how did 451 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,479 Speaker 1: you deal with those challenges because they're very natural. It 452 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,919 Speaker 1: doesn't you know, it doesn't make you a bad person, 453 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: but it's like you, I'm sure there were moments where 454 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: you felt guilty or you couldn't be somewhere with your 455 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 1: family that you really wanted to be with. How did 456 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: you deal with that and get through that successfully when 457 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: so many other people struggle with those moments. First of all, 458 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: you know, you have to have some boundaries and set 459 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: some boundaries, and I'll say I was pretty good about 460 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,479 Speaker 1: having boundaries. Didn't really do a lot of work on 461 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: the weekend, so that was pretty sacred time. When when 462 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 1: in the Jenny did that happen or was that from 463 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: the beginning you never worked weekends. I'd say, you know, 464 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: when we started having, you know, little kids, I also, 465 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 1: you know, kind of set up our house where we 466 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: had a place where people could come over for dinner, 467 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: and so I would often have a lot of dinner 468 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: still do at the house, and that way to just 469 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: save time sometimes my kids would you know, it's kind 470 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: of a funny story. My son he figured out when 471 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: he was about five or six that, you know, if 472 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: he came to one of the dinners towards the end, 473 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: he could get a dessert. Right. But but then after 474 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: a while he's like, hey, that's Bill Gates. You know. 475 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: It's like, look, let's look, maybe I'll warned something, you know, 476 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: so he would like come and sit out and participate 477 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: in the dinners. It helped a lot to do that 478 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: at home. And yeah, you gotta have some boundaries. You 479 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: can't make it perfect all the time, you know. And 480 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: they're going to be times when we haven't been doing 481 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: this lately obviously, but you know, when I would go 482 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 1: to Europe or Asia on business trips, you're just going 483 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: all out, like for for a long time, from early 484 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: morning to late at night. And that's okay. You know, 485 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: you can sprint for a while and do that. But also, yeah, 486 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: I made time to relax and play and exercise and 487 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: think and not be overly scheduled too. I think I 488 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 1: think the dinners is a genius one. I love that 489 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: that opening up your home and having those work dinners 490 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: or people over for dinners, so that you're actually at home, 491 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: you're with your family. It's it's still a part of 492 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: family time. I think that's that's genius, and it makes 493 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: so much sense as to why that's beneficial for the family, 494 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: for work, for so many other things. So I love 495 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: you sharing that tip. You can make story time with 496 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: the kids and still have a still have a dinner 497 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: with your business colleagues. You know. Yeah, it's brilliant. That's 498 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 1: a brilliant one. You mentioned in the book that you 499 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,239 Speaker 1: always kept mementos in your office, like some personal some 500 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: about the highs and low points of the company. Can 501 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: you tell us about some of these mementos because I'm 502 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,479 Speaker 1: a I mean, you collected stamps, obviously, so collecting as 503 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: part of your your DNA. I love collecting mementos as well. 504 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: I want some inspiration. What were some of the things 505 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: that you held onto Yeah, you know, I kept things 506 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 1: that were meaningful. In the book, I have a picture 507 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: of the motherboard that Jay Bell, our first engineer, hand 508 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: wired up. You know, that's obviously a pretty treasured memento 509 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: for me about the origins of our company and tons 510 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: of stories there. I love how one of the values 511 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: of your company was to be known as a great 512 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: company and a great place to work at, you know, 513 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: the first few years of my entrepreneurial journey and trying 514 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: to build a team. We have a team of you know, 515 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: just shy of fifty people across the world that are 516 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: working on my certification school, my course is, my podcast, videos, 517 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: my books, just the whole area of my work. And 518 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: I love that you said you wanted your company one 519 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: of the values was to be known as a great 520 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: company and a great place to work at. I wanted 521 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: to know what were three key ingredients in ensuring you 522 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,479 Speaker 1: were doing that as a leader. First of all, you 523 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: want to have an inspiring mission, and you want to 524 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,959 Speaker 1: have people excited, not just engaged, but you want them 525 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: to believe that what they do is really important and 526 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: makes a difference in the world. And you're basically engendering passion, 527 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: which is way more powerful than just about anything else 528 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: you can present as a motivational tool. I'd say the 529 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: second thing is you want people to feel like they 530 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: can succeed and grow and fulfill their full potential inside 531 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: the organization, and there's nothing holding them back. There's no 532 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: limits for them, and you're caring about their success I 533 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: think a part of that is probably the third point 534 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: is that you've created an environment that is inclusive and 535 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: anybody can succeed. You're not looking for people that are 536 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: all the same. You want, you know, to hear a 537 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: diverse set of voices, and you know you're you're stronger 538 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: because of the you know, diverse set of voices and 539 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: ideas coming together. And we're all focused on ultimately something 540 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: that's bigger than ourselves. And you know, again, we've got 541 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: a really important reason to get up out of bettery morning. 542 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: You know what we do matters in the world. Yeah. Absolutely, 543 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: I love that. Thank you so much. Yeah, that's going 544 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: to be really really useful to me as we continue 545 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: to grow. So, Michael, I want to thank you for 546 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: just being so generous with your time and giving us 547 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: sense great insights. And I'm so excited for my audience 548 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: to read play nice but win, and I want to 549 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: end as we always do, on on purpose, without final fire. 550 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: If these are a fast five questions, you have to 551 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: answer them in one word to one sentence maximum. That's it. So, 552 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: Michael Dasy a fast five. The first question is what 553 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: is the best piece of advice you've ever received? If 554 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: you find a problem, fix it as fast as you 555 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: find it. I love that. Okay. Second question, what is 556 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: the worst advice you've ever received? Nobody ever says, boy, 557 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: I'm glad you waited to make that tough decision, all right, 558 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: So it's important to lean into difficult conversations a difficult decisions, 559 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: and you know, anybody tells you otherwise is just creating 560 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: more problems. Got it? Yeah? Absolutely? Question number three, what's 561 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: the first thing you do in the morning when you 562 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: wake up and the last thing you do at night 563 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: before you go to bed. I spend some time every 564 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: morning thinking about what do I want to accomplish during 565 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: the day, what's really important for me to get done 566 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: today and be proud of it at the end of 567 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: the day. And then as I'm going to sleep, I'm 568 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: really trying to wind down and relax and you know, 569 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: calm myself and sleep is super important. I try to 570 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: go to sleep early, get up early, want to get 571 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: a great night's sleep, want to get a high score 572 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: in my order ring and my sleep eight pod, and 573 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: just try to relax, calm myself, think grateful thoughts, and 574 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: not be too wound up about all the stuff I 575 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: have to do tomorrow. Awesome. Question number four, what is 576 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,719 Speaker 1: your current purpose today? Our purpose as a company is 577 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: still enabling human potential with technology, and you know, I 578 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: think that's a super powerful mission that will continue for 579 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: a long long time. That's enduring and we're continue to 580 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: be excited by it. Fantastic And fifth and final question, Michael, 581 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: if you could create one law that everyone in the 582 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: world had to follow, what would it be. Be grateful 583 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: for what you have and take responsibility for your own life, 584 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: self determination. Don't blame it on other people. It's all 585 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: on you. You've got to go make it happen, and 586 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: it's nobody else's fault. I love it, Michael Dell everyone, 587 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: and the new book is out. It's called Play Nice 588 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: but Win, a CEO's Journey from Founder to Leader. Michael, 589 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: I want to thank you again for your energy. I 590 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: hope that everyone's been listening on watching that you're going 591 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: to share your greatest insights on Instagram, on Twitter, makes 592 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: you tag me and Michael and let us know what 593 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: resonated with you. And again, go and grab a cropy 594 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: of the book. Michael, thank you for this time. I 595 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: look forward to meeting you in person one day soon. 596 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: All the best with everything you're working on, and I'm 597 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: so happy that we got to spend this time together. 598 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Jay, great to be with you. 599 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: If you want even more videos just like this one 600 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: makes you you subscribe and click on the boxes over here. 601 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: I'm also excited to let you know that you can 602 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: now get my book Think Like a Monk from Think 603 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: Like a Book dot com. Check below in the description 604 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: to make sure you order today.