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Speaker 1: It's see some of the much podcast. I'm your host.

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Speaker 1: Claude Harmon, my guest this week, is a six time

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Speaker 1: winner on the PGA Tour, won the Payne Stewart Award

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, and has been the voice of

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Speaker 1: basically the voice of golf for you know, really since

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Speaker 1: the nineties. Gary Man, it was good to have you

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Speaker 1: back on TV. I know it's only brief these days,

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Speaker 1: but as someone that loved your work and stuff, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we miss you, man, the fans miss you being on TV,

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Speaker 1: and it was great to have you back. Well.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate that. First of all, thank you very much

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Speaker 2: for the compliments. You know, I tell a lot of

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Speaker 2: people it's fun getting to come back and call the

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Speaker 2: golf and talk about golf. But the really fun part

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Speaker 2: for me is to come back and see the people

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Speaker 2: when you're no longer there, and a part of it

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Speaker 2: you start to reflect. And you know, I played for

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Speaker 2: sixteen years and I did television for close to thirty two.

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Speaker 2: In that period of time, I mean you make a

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Speaker 2: lot of friends, players, caddies, instructors, tour officials, tournament directors,

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Speaker 2: you know, so forth and so on. Then all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden when you're not there, you realize that was

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Speaker 2: the only time you got to see people. So coming

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Speaker 2: back players this year of Al's bar Us open great

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Speaker 2: opportunity for me to catch up, see a lot of

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Speaker 2: folks that I don't get to see anymore, check on

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Speaker 2: how they're doing and what's going on, and.

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Speaker 3: That to me is probably my favorite part.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't think people realize that, aren't you

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Speaker 1: know part of you know, the tour like we are

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Speaker 1: and how much a part of our lives it's been

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Speaker 1: that it is one big, kind of giant traveling circus,

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Speaker 1: from the players every single week, to the caddies every

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Speaker 1: single week, to people like me on the back end,

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Speaker 1: the agents, and then you know, when you do television,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean I did Sky Sky Sports Golf

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Speaker 1: for a number of years. The bonds that you make

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Speaker 1: with the crew and the television people that you work

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Speaker 1: day in and day out, I mean, I still I

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Speaker 1: got has to do some sky over the last two

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Speaker 1: majors and it was great coming back into the compound

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Speaker 1: and seeing everybody and so I hear you the US

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Speaker 1: Open Man. That was a throwback. It was like we

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Speaker 1: were back in the in the glory days of the

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Speaker 1: US Open. First of all, Oakmon is a golf course,

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Speaker 1: such amazing history there, Gary, What do you like about

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Speaker 1: that golf course? And what do you like about that venue?

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Speaker 1: Because I just can't think of a harder golf course

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Speaker 1: really anywhere on the planet Earth the way they set

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Speaker 1: it up and the tests that it demands. But it

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Speaker 1: really did feel like we were back to the old

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Speaker 1: school days of the USGA. And I think everybody Gary

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Speaker 1: got there last week and thought, yeah, even Parr wins

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Speaker 1: this easy. What did you like about the setup last week?

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Speaker 1: And what did you like about maybe kind of going

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Speaker 1: back to that old school kind of USGA bloodbaths setup.

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Speaker 2: Well, I would say the first thing I really liked

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Speaker 2: there was no graduated rough you know, it was just

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Speaker 2: either you were in the fairway or you were in

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Speaker 2: the really tall stuff. So it really put a lot

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Speaker 2: of pressure on the te shots, which which I liked

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Speaker 2: to see. To me, that was always part of the

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Speaker 2: US Open. One of the reasons why Lee Trevino had

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Speaker 2: so much success in because he could hit the fairways,

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Speaker 2: and you know, Jack Nicholas same thing success in the

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Speaker 2: US Opened a lot of times wouldn't hit drivers a

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Speaker 2: lot of one irons, a lot of three woods off

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Speaker 2: the tee, but always making sure that he was playing

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Speaker 2: from the fairway. So that was probably the first thing

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Speaker 2: that I noticed when I got there and started walking

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Speaker 2: around the golf course was like, you know, this reminds

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Speaker 2: me of the days when I used to play in

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Speaker 2: the US Open. You either hit the fairway or you

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Speaker 2: were in a lot of trouble. I like Oakmand from

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Speaker 2: the standpoint that it is difficult, There's no question about it.

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Speaker 3: I would agree with you.

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Speaker 2: I think it's the hardest golf course certainly in the

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Speaker 2: United States on a day in and day out basis.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the members are crazy. They love the green

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Speaker 2: at fourteen fourteen and a half every day, they light

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Speaker 2: the rough high, they love the penal bunkers. It is

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Speaker 2: just that hard a golf course. It certainly tested the

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Speaker 2: players not only from their skill level with the ability

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Speaker 2: to hit a golf ball, but it tested them as

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Speaker 2: far as their mental capabilities as well, the ability to

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Speaker 2: maintain your composure, to maintain your concentration, to accept the

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Speaker 2: fact that sometimes you were just going to have to

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Speaker 2: pitch out of the rough and down the fairway and

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Speaker 2: try to make what we always used to call a

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Speaker 2: US Open par which was a wedge out and then

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Speaker 2: another wedge to the green and hopefully you get a

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Speaker 2: chance to make the pipe. So from that standpoint, I

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Speaker 2: thought it was great.

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Speaker 3: I really did.

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Speaker 2: I'm a little concerned that they went back out and

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Speaker 2: played the last six or seven holes when they did,

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Speaker 2: But other than that, I thought it was a great

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Speaker 2: US Open.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Gary, from your standpoint is a former player,

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Speaker 1: as someone that's won, You've won on big golf courses Bahill,

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Speaker 1: Tory and stuff like that. But as a former player,

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Speaker 1: as a fan, but also as a broadcaster, what do

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Speaker 1: you want major championships to test from the best players

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Speaker 1: in the world. What do you think these great players

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Speaker 1: were the best in the game, right? I mean it's

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Speaker 1: not even close. And I think you know the game

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Speaker 1: and Lynch sent they sent somebody out to go play

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Speaker 1: on the Monday that was a legit, you know, scratch

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Speaker 1: golfer and started to bake ninety. I mean, first of all,

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Speaker 1: I don't think the fans can appreciate just how hard

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Speaker 1: not only all majors are, but that test. But what

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Speaker 1: do you want majors to identify.

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Speaker 2: From the players, Well, I think, first of all, I've

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Speaker 2: always felt like each major has kind of its own personality.

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Speaker 2: When I think of the Masters, I think of the

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Speaker 2: back nine, and I think of the opportunities on the

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Speaker 2: back nine for eagles and Verdi's, but also for disasters

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Speaker 2: as well. When I think of the Open Championship, I

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Speaker 2: think of the weather conditions. You know, they play such

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Speaker 2: a huge part and how the event goes about. PGA

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Speaker 2: to me, has always been what I would call the

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Speaker 2: tamest of the majors. The setup usually allows for some

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Speaker 2: pretty good scoring, but the US Open is always about

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Speaker 2: the difficulty and making sure that it is the most

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Speaker 2: difficult of the four majors. They accomplished that this year

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Speaker 2: and again I think you want to see in a

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Speaker 2: major championship, you want to see great shots. Don't get

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Speaker 2: me wrong. I mean, you know, you want to see

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Speaker 2: these guys be able to perform what they're capable of doing,

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Speaker 2: and as you say, they do some amazing things that

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Speaker 2: I would agree. I don't think the average viewer understands

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Speaker 2: just how good these guys actually are and some of

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Speaker 2: the shots that they actually play. I mean, just from

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Speaker 2: my generation of players to what I watch now, there

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Speaker 2: are times where I literally shake my head and just go, wow,

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Speaker 2: that's pretty unbelievable. You know, when I see a guy

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Speaker 2: take a threewood off the ground and carry the ball

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Speaker 2: two hundred and eighty five two hundred ninety yards in

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Speaker 2: the air, I mean, that's mind boggling to me. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, back in my day, a good drive by

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Speaker 2: the longest drivers hit at two hundred and eighty five

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Speaker 2: yards off the tee.

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Speaker 3: And now.

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Speaker 2: And now these guys are hitting it farther than that

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Speaker 2: off the ground with a three wood. So you know,

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Speaker 2: you want to see that, but you also want to

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Speaker 2: see them tested. You want to see them have to

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Speaker 2: think a little bit. You want to see them have to,

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Speaker 2: as I said at the US Open, maintain your concentration,

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Speaker 2: your composure, and every now and then.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't want.

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Speaker 2: A steady diet of US Open golf, you know, no question.

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Speaker 2: I don't think the fans would like that either. But

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Speaker 2: every now and then it's fun to see the best

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Speaker 2: in the world tested the way they were there at

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Speaker 2: opont and to see if they can, you know, accept

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Speaker 2: the fact that you know, being in the fairway two

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Speaker 2: hundred and seventy five yards off the tea was better

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Speaker 2: than being in the rough three hundred and twenty yards

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Speaker 2: off the team most of the time where they play,

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Speaker 2: that's not the case.

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Speaker 1: Where's the line in your opinion, Gary on fair versus unfair?

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Speaker 1: Because there are these US opens that we've seen in

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Speaker 1: history to where it seems like, okay, there's that conversation

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Speaker 1: late on the weekends, Okay, is the golf course getting

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Speaker 1: away from the championship? And then how much of the

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Speaker 1: green complexes, certainly at a place like Oakmont where they

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Speaker 1: can get those greens so fast, and you know the

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Speaker 1: squareness of some of those greens, which is so weird

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Speaker 1: to see, you know a few of the holes at

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Speaker 1: Oakmont with the square greens. But where do you kind

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Speaker 1: of come in on the balance of fair versus from

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Speaker 1: a conditioned setup, wise from the rough standpoint, from how

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Speaker 1: fast they can get the greens? Because I was talking

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Speaker 1: to friend, the head of the USCA, on the Monday

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Speaker 1: night and he said, what do you think the players

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Speaker 1: want from us from setting up the golf course? And

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Speaker 1: I said, you know, whenever I talk to players, they

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Speaker 1: don't mind the golf course being hard. They don't mind

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Speaker 1: it being a tough test. But what they don't want

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Speaker 1: is to hit a good shot and then get punished

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Speaker 1: for it and then be made to look stupid. So

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Speaker 1: the balance on the setup between what's fair and what's not.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can't control the weather, right, you can't

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Speaker 1: control and it was soft and okmont I mean, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: they had rain and then on the Sunday it got

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Speaker 1: really soft. If they have no rain for seven days,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how anybody would have finished five over.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, And and you think about it, I mean

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Speaker 2: that's what Cabrera won with that year. He won with

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Speaker 2: five over. And the golf course is that tight. I

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Speaker 2: think the USGA, you know, especially with their desire to

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Speaker 2: make the golf course as difficult as possible but still fair.

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Speaker 2: Often time, I shouldn't say maybe not oftentimes, but sometimes

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Speaker 2: they get so close to the edge that when mother

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Speaker 2: nature doesn't cooperate, all of a sudden, it kind of

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Speaker 2: goes overboard and it gets and it gets it's.

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Speaker 3: Away from them.

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Speaker 2: And you know, we've seen examples of that at Shinnecock

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Speaker 2: a couple of times. You know, Pinehurst the one year

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Speaker 2: years ago when Michael Campbell won was was pretty close

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Speaker 2: to that. It got really firm and really fast, and

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Speaker 2: I understand as a player, you know, you want to

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Speaker 2: be rewarded for good shots. You don't want to be punished.

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Speaker 3: You know. Embarrassment, Well, you know that kind of comes

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Speaker 3: with the US Open.

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Speaker 2: I hate to say it. I had many a moment

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Speaker 2: at the US Open where I was more than embarrassed.

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Speaker 2: So you know, that really notts something you can control.

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Speaker 2: The one thing I didn't like at the Open last

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Speaker 2: week at Oakmont and talking to Gil Hands, Gill said,

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Speaker 2: you know, they went back in the design and the

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Speaker 2: photos from the phones era and so forth and so on,

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Speaker 2: and they had a lot of these steep edges coming

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Speaker 2: off the green to where the ball would go down

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Speaker 2: into the bunker, and by growing the rough so long

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Speaker 2: around the greens and around some of the bunkers, it

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Speaker 2: prevented balls from actually going into the sand. Classic example

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Speaker 2: to me was Tyrrell Hatton on the seventy first hole

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Speaker 2: hit a drive and it was and it wasn't a

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Speaker 2: great drive. It was not a great drive, but he

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Speaker 2: actually missed it in the right place. If the ball

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Speaker 2: goes down into the bunker, it's a relatively easy bunker shot.

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Speaker 2: He's got plenty of green to work with. You know,

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Speaker 2: the chances are he's going to have a probably ten

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Speaker 2: foot birdie putter less, but the five and a half

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Speaker 2: inch rough grabs it. And now it's sitting on a

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Speaker 2: straight downhill lie where you know, the green's up above him,

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Speaker 2: probably eight or ten feet, And yeah, I mean, the

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Speaker 2: chances of him getting that ball on the green, we're

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Speaker 2: almost not. We saw another example of it on the

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Speaker 2: thirteenth hole of the part three one day, Xander Schoffley

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Speaker 2: hit a T shot that was pulled. It wasn't a

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Speaker 2: great shot by any means, but it just trickled off

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Speaker 2: the green to the left and rather than going down

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Speaker 2: into the bunker, it hung up on this almost vertical

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Speaker 2: face and this five and a half in he had

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Speaker 2: to chip the ball away from the hole. He couldn't

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Speaker 2: even chip it toward the hole because he didn't know

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Speaker 2: if he could keep it on the green from that position. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, I think sometimes they maybe go a little

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Speaker 2: too far, and especially if you've just gone through this

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Speaker 2: restoration to try to create this situation to where the

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Speaker 2: bulk goes into the bunker and now you've grown grass

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Speaker 2: that prevents it from going in the bunker. To me,

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Speaker 2: that's probably a little over the top.

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Speaker 1: And I think sometimes when I mean, I listen, if

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Speaker 1: you want to go the rough up off petite to

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Speaker 1: put a premium on you know, hitting the golf ball

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Speaker 1: in the fairway, I mean, okay, you can, you can

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Speaker 1: make an argument for that. But it seems to me

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Speaker 1: sometimes when we have US Open rough, right, there is

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Speaker 1: a term called us Oh yeah, You'll go to a

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Speaker 1: regular golf course like Memorial, and you'll sometimes at Memorial

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Speaker 1: in summertime, you'll look around and you'll say, yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is like US Open rough. Well, do you feel maybe

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Speaker 1: at times the rough being so penal around the greens

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Speaker 1: and so thick? Is there an argument to be made

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Speaker 1: here that it takes some of the skill out of

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Speaker 1: it because there is no skill. It doesn't matter if

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Speaker 1: you're Patrick Reid or set Me Biosteros. It has an

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Speaker 1: amazing short game. It's almost like sometimes the skill level

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Speaker 1: around the green complex is it kind of makes everyone

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Speaker 1: the same? How much is too much rough around the greens?

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Speaker 3: Right? I would agree with that one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: I think when you get the roughest severe it was

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Speaker 2: at Oakmont, around the greens, you have a situation.

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Speaker 3: I always call it's hack and hope.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you hack at it and you hope that

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Speaker 2: the ball comes out the way you anticipate based on

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Speaker 2: your thought as how the ball is actually lying in

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Speaker 2: the grass. And yeah, there's certain techniques. Obviously, you got

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Speaker 2: to get the club up in the air a little quicker,

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Speaker 2: and you bet got to be a little bit steeper

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Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff. But every one of

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Speaker 2: those players has that ability to make that adjustment. But

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Speaker 2: then it becomes how hard do I hit it? And

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Speaker 2: especially when you short sighted yourself in a US Open,

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Speaker 2: and you know you have to have speed to get

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Speaker 2: the club through that grass five and a half inches.

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Speaker 2: As you say, it was wet, it was sticky, I

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Speaker 2: mean it was nasty. You know, to only make the

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Speaker 2: ball go say twenty feet and you only need to

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Speaker 2: carry it three you know, you can look pretty foolish,

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Speaker 2: you really can't. There were certain situations to me where,

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Speaker 2: you know, when we had done a US Amateur telecast there,

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Speaker 2: we'd done other opens there at Opat they had some

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Speaker 2: shaved areas you know around you know, like behind number

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Speaker 2: three was shaved, you know, behind the third green it

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Speaker 2: was it was cut at fairwey high. To me, that

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Speaker 2: allows a little more creativity, a little more skill, you know,

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Speaker 2: various shots and that kind of thing. I personally like

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Speaker 2: to see that a lot more than what I call

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Speaker 2: the hack and hope.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about JJ Spahn. I mean what a performance.

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Speaker 1: I mean put it into perspective what he did, because

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Speaker 1: if you look at the leader board, not only on

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Speaker 1: the weekend, but on Sunday, I mean, you had some

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Speaker 1: of the best players in the world, you have some

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Speaker 1: of the some of the favorites every single week going

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Speaker 1: into these and I think JJ's had an amazing year.

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Speaker 1: You know, the playoff at the Players with Rory, but

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Speaker 1: JJ spawn is not somebody that anybody had on a

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Speaker 1: list of who's going to win the US Open at Oakmont.

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Speaker 1: How good was the performance?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it was incredible, no question about it.

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Speaker 2: And you know I touched on earlier. I wasn't sure

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Speaker 2: they should go back out and play those last six

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Speaker 2: or seven holes. JJ Spond's really glad they did. You know,

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Speaker 2: it was almost like the weather delay was a reset

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Speaker 2: for him. I mean he was headed in the wrong direction.

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Speaker 2: I mean it was eerily similar to the players. Remember

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Speaker 2: the players had had a weather delay as well in

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Speaker 2: the final round, and he came back out of that

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Speaker 2: weather delay and actually hit some clutch shots, made some

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Speaker 2: great putts and had a chance to win that right

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Speaker 2: very late on the last hole. Didn't make the putt there,

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Speaker 2: but you know, got himself into the playoff. It was

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Speaker 2: eerily similar at the US Open. I mean at the

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Speaker 2: start that he.

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Speaker 3: Had, I mean you you.

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Speaker 2: Wrote him off forty on the front right, I mean,

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Speaker 2: he was he was terrible, looked nervous, looked, you know,

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Speaker 2: like he just couldn't handle the situation.

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Speaker 3: But for some reason or.

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Speaker 2: Another, when he came back out after that weather delay,

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Speaker 2: the reset was incredible, just amazing. I mean that the

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Speaker 2: shot he hit at seventeen, the two shots he hit

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Speaker 2: at eighteen, you know, yeah, the putt, I mean, you

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Speaker 2: know you're trying to two putt, it goes in. You know,

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Speaker 2: he clearly would have been able to putt. It was

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Speaker 2: such a great putt.

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Speaker 3: I tell you.

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Speaker 2: I mentioned earlier, you know that Leechervino did really well

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Speaker 2: in US Opens. His swing, maybe not the back swing,

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Speaker 2: but the forward motion through the ball and the finish

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Speaker 2: and the ball flight kind of a low, you know,

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Speaker 2: left to right under control. Shot reminded me a lot

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Speaker 2: of Leech Reno, and watching it really did.

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Speaker 1: DJ was hitting golf balls next to JJ on Tuesday

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Speaker 1: and a friend of mine messaged me and he said, hey,

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Speaker 1: I need some sleeper picks. Give me some, you know,

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Speaker 1: not superstar picks. And I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, okay,

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Speaker 1: Shane Lowry finished second there, you know, had a big lead.

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Speaker 1: It's a golf course that you know, I know he

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Speaker 1: really really likes. He's been playing well. And I said,

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Speaker 1: I think Shane Lowry. But JJ's hitting balls right next

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Speaker 1: to us. He's working with his coach, Adam Striver. First

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Speaker 1: of all, there's a sound test. There's an audio test

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Speaker 1: when you're watching guys hit golf balls.

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Speaker 3: On the range.

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Speaker 1: And there are guys that have a completely different audio test,

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Speaker 1: Rory McElroy, Scottie Scheffler. They're all out of center the

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Speaker 1: club face. Gary. I'm watching JJ hit balls and every

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Speaker 1: single one of these out of the middle of the

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Speaker 1: club face like this sound is good, the balance is good.

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Speaker 1: I'm watching the shape and this was through the bag.

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Speaker 1: We got to the range about the same time. I

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Speaker 1: watched him do an entire practice session watch. So then

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Speaker 1: on the weekend I'm thinking, hey, and I thought, when

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Speaker 1: you go back, you can always go back and look

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Speaker 1: at you know, what helped players win the tournament. But

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Speaker 1: I think in looking back, the stretch on was it

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Speaker 1: on Saturday makes paws from five to sixteen just does Again,

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Speaker 1: we've seen that in the past. We haven't seen that necessarily,

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Speaker 1: I think recently from a US Open. But you know this,

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Speaker 1: having covered so many of these, the guys that win

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Speaker 1: these scenes will have days to where they'll just put

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Speaker 1: eleven twelve pors in a row, and in that stretch

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Speaker 1: they're making the seven to ten foot or for poor

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Speaker 1: that they need to make. I thought it was incredibly

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Speaker 1: impressive that JJ had no double bogies for the entire week, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean nineteenth and fairways hit ninth in the greens

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Speaker 1: ninth and putting that rain delay that you talked about.

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Speaker 1: You've probably been a part of a lot of those

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Speaker 1: in the course of your career. They can be the

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Speaker 1: reset that you need, but then they can also go

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Speaker 1: the other way to where you can actually be leading

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Speaker 1: and cruising. Do you think maybe the reset helped JJ

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Speaker 1: Moore and it hurt Sam Burns and out of scott

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Speaker 1: because they came out started double boge in every hole.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, well, I mean you look back on it.

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Speaker 2: I mean Sam Burns had just birdied the tenth folt.

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Speaker 2: I mean you know it was like he kind of

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Speaker 2: had taken control. Seemed to be, you know, striking the

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Speaker 2: ball as well as anybody, got some momentum back by

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Speaker 2: making that birdie at ten, and then man, when he

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Speaker 2: came back out, it.

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Speaker 3: Was it was just night and day.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, you know, as a player, I mean we

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Speaker 2: all kind of do the same things in weather delays.

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Speaker 2: You kind of hang around, You maybe eat a little bit,

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Speaker 2: or you know, you gather in a group of friends

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Speaker 2: and you're telling stories, or you know, some guys will

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Speaker 2: go off in a corner and kind of lay down

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Speaker 2: and try to relax. I mean, there's no magic formulas

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Speaker 2: to you know, what guys do during weather delay. But

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Speaker 2: you know, obviously, in listening to what JJ's bond said,

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Speaker 2: you know, he got together with his team and his

401
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,399
Speaker 2: team kind of said, hey, look, you know you're not

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Speaker 2: out of this yet. You know you're four shots behind.

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Speaker 2: If we just started on Monday and said Sunday afternoon,

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Speaker 2: you would be four shots back with eight holes to go.

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Speaker 2: In a US Open, you'd probably said, wow, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I take it. I'd take it. You know, I'd like

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Speaker 2: to be in that position. So you know, obviously somebody

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Speaker 2: planted some good seeds in his brain to you know,

409
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Speaker 2: say hey, you know, look, go back out there and

410
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Speaker 2: play the way you you know you've been playing. You

411
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Speaker 2: don't have to do anything special, just get back to

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Speaker 2: what you were doing, and he was able to do it.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was also lucky for JJ that they

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Speaker 1: didn't shelter in place, because sometimes they'll do that, right,

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Speaker 1: they'll call everybody so, yes, it's just a there's no

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Speaker 1: there's no lightning, so this is just going to blow through.

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Speaker 1: And I think originally they did that they thought it

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Speaker 1: was maybe going to go through and to be maybe

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Speaker 1: a fifteen to twenty minute to lay shelter in place,

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Speaker 1: but then they knew it was going to be longer,

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Speaker 1: so then they pull everybody gets pulled off, and then

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Speaker 1: after a certain timeframe then they have to let everybody

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Speaker 1: warm back up. And I do know that Adam Shreiver

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Speaker 1: and Josh greg Green, who has been helping JJ with

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Speaker 1: the short game, said to him, listen, take the handbrake off,

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Speaker 1: stop it, you know, just let it go, just and

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Speaker 1: step up. And I think that's I think that's the

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Speaker 1: other thing that I always find interesting about that kind

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Speaker 1: of US Open setup is you know it's going to

430
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Speaker 1: be difficult, and you can go out and all you're

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Speaker 1: trying to do is not hit bad shots. All you're

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Speaker 1: trying to do is not miss the fair way, not

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Speaker 1: miss the green. And then you start missing fairways and

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Speaker 1: you miss greens that stretch from five to sixteen on Saturday.

435
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 1: As a former player, you've played in a lot of

436
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,879
Speaker 1: these US Opens, you've played in the old school days

437
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 1: that stretch. How hard is it Gary to just grind out,

438
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 1: you know, two solid hours of just making pars because

439
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 1: the rest of your career as a player, it's not

440
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,880
Speaker 1: like that. You know that they're going to be burned.

441
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: Even the par five sat at Oakmart legit char So

442
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 1: there really aren't a lot of other than maybe fourteen,

443
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 1: the short par four that was you know everybody was

444
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: getting close to. That was a legit. Bob Ford told

445
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 1: me that he was walking around the longtime head pro there.

446
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 1: He said, listen, I think fourteen is this week is

447
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 1: the only legit party chance these players have, so everything

448
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 1: else is just holding on. How hard is it to

449
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 1: switch that mindset, Gary to Okay, I'm in a US

450
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,159
Speaker 1: Open now, I just have to throw together as many

451
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,439
Speaker 1: pars this week as I can. What do you have

452
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:46,679
Speaker 1: to do mentally to change that switch from attack to

453
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 1: not protect, but to play conservatively aggressive? Right?

454
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 2: Well, I think you know you touched on it very

455
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 2: early on, and I know I talked to probably half

456
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 2: a dozen caddies and probably ten players, and every single

457
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 2: one of them told me the exact same thing. I'll

458
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 2: take even par right now and never tee off. So

459
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,239
Speaker 2: you know, if that's the mindset going in, and it

460
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,719
Speaker 2: was obviously with a bunch of people, a good caddy

461
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 2: is going to keep reminding you, hey, every time we

462
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 2: make a par, we're going to pick up shots on somebody.

463
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 2: You know, we're going to pick up a half a

464
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 2: shot on somebody or a full shot on somebody. And

465
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 2: I do think, you know, so much of that is

466
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 2: putting well because if you keep making some you know,

467
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 2: you make those first two or three seven eight footers

468
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 2: ten foot or whatever, and all of a sudden, you know,

469
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 2: your confidence grows with that. And now all of a

470
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 2: sudden you know, you don't feel the need that I

471
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 2: have to get this ball right next to the hole

472
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 2: all the time. You know, if I if I'm in

473
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 2: the rough around the green and I chip it to

474
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 2: eight feet, it's okay. You know, I can make this

475
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 2: putt and that you know, as you said, and that

476
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 2: timeframe on Saturday, he did that time after time after time.

477
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 2: And you know, once you start doing it, it's like, okay,

478
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 2: I can play the golf course this way and still

479
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 2: be in fine shape. So again I go back to,

480
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 2: you know, the US Open Test, and one of the

481
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 2: aspects is the mental component of it. And yeah, I

482
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 2: mean you've got to be able to change your attitude

483
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 2: and your approach. I mean, that's just the way it is.

484
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, we were in rain delay

485
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 1: and I was talking to David Deval when he was

486
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: doing some TV at the Masters for Golf Channel, and

487
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: we're on one of the tour trucks, and I said

488
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: to him, you know, David, you had a great career.

489
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 1: You're number one in the world, won a major champion.

490
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: You're a great college player. To be a great player,

491
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: to be a major champion, to be number one in

492
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,679
Speaker 1: the world. What do you think you have to have?

493
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: And I thought he was going to say something about

494
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: shots or something like that, and it's always something that

495
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: stuck with me. He said, I think to be a

496
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 1: great player and to be a great champion, you have

497
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: to have acceptance. You have to be able to accept

498
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: what is happening. And I think you know, the years

499
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: open at Oakmon is a great example of acceptance. You

500
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: are not going to change that golf course, you know,

501
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 1: Thirst and Lawrence he was six under run Thursday. You

502
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: knew he wasn't going to finish six under even for

503
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: the day, right, So that acceptance of Okay, I know

504
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 1: the golf course is hard. I know it is going

505
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 1: to be a very difficult test. I know I'm not

506
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 1: going to get a lot of great looks for Birdie.

507
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 1: But then there's that thing that I think is always

508
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 1: difficult for you guys as players, to where you're in

509
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: protect mode, You're in defense mode all day. Because I

510
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 1: always think major championships, the ones that win those are

511
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: the guys that play offense when they need to play offense,

512
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: and they play defense when they need to play defense.

513
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: And the trick of what the USGA does is you

514
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: get out of position and you know you should be

515
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 1: playing defense, but your brain tells you, Okay, I have

516
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: to play offense. But the opposite of that, the shot

517
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 1: that JJ hit at seventeen, that is where you have

518
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 1: to play offense, and to take advantage of that and

519
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: play offense at the right time. To choose to play offense,

520
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: but then to execute that, it must be very difficult

521
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: to say, Okay, I've been in defense mode all day,

522
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 1: all day, and now I've got a fifteen foot up

523
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 1: the hill for berdie.

524
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 3: How do I.

525
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 2: Handle this all right? Well, and you know on the

526
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 2: broadcast we said it often. I mean, you know, you

527
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 2: get so defensive, especially on those greens, I mean running

528
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 2: as fast as they were, and then you get some

529
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 2: of the down slopes and the side slopes and everything

530
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 2: else that you know, your defensive, your defensive, your defensive,

531
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden you get a putt

532
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 2: you know where you are uphill and it's like, oh,

533
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 2: you know, I could actually hit this one. Well, we

534
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 2: saw a lot of those puts, you know, kind of

535
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 2: come up short or not be strug firmly enough, and

536
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 2: it's just, you know, it plays on your mind. There's

537
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 2: no question about it. That's that's what makes the US

538
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 2: Open so unique. So you know, you talked about it.

539
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: He had the opportunity there at seventeen, JJ did he

540
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 2: pulled the shot off. The one thing about seventeen that

541
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 2: I liked was, I mean I didn't look at the

542
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 2: final stats, but I would guess probably ninety five ninety

543
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 2: seven percent of the time the green, they were going

544
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 2: for the green. I mean, there's no reason to lay

545
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 2: out not anymore. I mean, they can all hit it

546
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 2: far enough. So you knew that that was going to

547
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 2: be the case. You knew he was going to try

548
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 2: to drive it on the green and to be able

549
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 2: to stand up there and make that swing. As you said,

550
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 2: you know, being aggressive at the right time is one

551
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 2: thing mentally, but then being able to physically do it

552
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 2: is a whole other thing. But that's why he's got

553
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: the US Open trophy. He did it at the right time.

554
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: So obviously, I mean, you know this. You win a

555
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: PGA Tour event, your life changes, right, you know, you

556
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 1: have a career like you have where you win multiple times,

557
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: your life changes. But when you win a major and

558
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 1: you've never you know, i mean, JJ's never won a

559
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: major before everybody says it's life changing, it's life altering

560
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: in your opinion, deary, how how is it life altering?

561
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: And how does that change affect a player? What now

562
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: happens to JJ? Moving forward? Every time because you know this,

563
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: you win a tournament, you show up at a PJ

564
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 1: tour bent, everybody looks at you differently, and then you

565
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: win another tournament. So if you're a multiple winner on tour,

566
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: you're looked at in a different light. But if you

567
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: win a major championship, you are forever looked at completely

568
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: differently in the sport by everybody. How do you feel

569
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: like his life changes now?

570
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: Well, I think what'll be fascinating to see and I

571
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 2: think it happens anytime a guy who maybe you don't

572
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 2: expect to win a major wins one. Is what happens

573
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: after that? Because it is going to be different, you know,

574
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 2: now all of a sudden, there are a lot of

575
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 2: demands on your time, you know, a lot of opportunities

576
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: to make money, you know, but again, does that take

577
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: you out of your normal routine? Does that take you

578
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 2: out of you know, the things that you used to

579
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 2: do to get to where you got By winning the

580
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 2: US Open. I've seen it, you know, happen numerous times.

581
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 2: I mean, some guys handle it very well, other guys don't,

582
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 2: and you just never know. But the demands on your time,

583
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 2: you know, having never won a major, but I just

584
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: know you need to learn how to say no is

585
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 2: one thing that's really important because now every time something

586
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 2: comes up, you know, JJ spond is going to be

587
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: asked about it, because he's the US Open champion. Doesn't

588
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 2: matter whether it's about golf or life or something else, politics,

589
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 2: even you know, all the world's going, he's going to

590
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: be asked about it. So managing your time and still

591
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 2: being able to do the thing things that got you

592
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 2: to where you are, I think is critical, I really do.

593
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 2: I mean a very dear friend of mine, Bill Rogers, well,

594
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: I had an unbelievable year, you know, won the Open

595
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 2: Championship one in Australia one, you know, and the next

596
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 2: few years he you know, chased the money, went and

597
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 2: played everywhere, got paid to go play. And sure enough,

598
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 2: within probably a year and a half two years after

599
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 2: that fabulous year, he was burned out. He was tired

600
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: of golf, and he was never the same player. And

601
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,479
Speaker 2: you know he would admit to this day that you know,

602
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: he didn't handle it very well. So it'll be fascinating

603
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: to see how JJ doesn't.

604
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: Speaking of saying no, you've been on both sides of this.

605
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: You've been on the player side and the broadcasting side.

606
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: Rory McElroy's stance lately, I mean, I saw a tweet

607
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: the other day and said it said, who would have

608
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: thought that Roy mcawaite could win the Masters and get

609
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: the Grand Slam? And we're talking about him negatively the

610
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: way that we have his stance lately to not speak

611
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: to the press. Listen. He is entitled to do it, right.

612
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: It's not mandatory. It's not like it is another team

613
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: sports in the NFL. You are not contractually obligated to

614
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: speak to the media. I think a lot of people

615
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: look at times that I find Rory to be incredibly engaging,

616
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:30,239
Speaker 1: incredibly curious. I think he's smart. I enjoy talking to him.

617
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: When when I talk to him, we don't really talk

618
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: a lot about golf. We talk about other things. He's

619
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: a smart kid, right, he has a lot to say sometimes.

620
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: I think in the last four years it seems like

621
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: he'd loves the sound of his own voice and then

622
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: right now, it's like he doesn't want to say anything.

623
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: Where are you on this kind of And as a

624
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: wider question, do you feel like the players owe the

625
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: media and the fans interviews?

626
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: You know, having been at a large part of that

627
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 2: one side of it media for quite some time.

628
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, you'd like to think that.

629
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 2: I don't know if oh is the right word, but

630
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 2: you'd like to think that most of these guys would

631
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 2: be smart enough that, you know, every time we show

632
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 2: their face or they're on TV, or they're doing an interview,

633
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 2: or they're up there on the media center, you know,

634
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 2: with all their logos on and all the money they're

635
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 2: making from their sponsors, that you know, this is just

636
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 2: another opportunity for me to keep a lot of people happy.

637
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 2: That being said, I get the sense, and I have

638
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 2: not had a chance to talk to Rory about this.

639
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 2: I think he was very unhappy with the driver situation

640
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 2: and what happened at the PGA and that it came

641
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: out that his driver was non conforming and there were

642
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: other players drivers that were non conforming that didn't make

643
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 2: big headlines like his did. And you know, you know

644
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 2: as well as I do as a player, you don't

645
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 2: know when your driver's non conforming or not. I mean,

646
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 2: you hit enough balls and sure enough, sooner or later

647
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 2: the face gets too thin and then it doesn't pass

648
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 2: the test. But it's not like, you know, all of

649
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 2: a sudden, your driver's going fifteen yards farther than it was,

650
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 2: you know, and it's non conforming. I mean, you don't

651
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 2: know that. So I think he was a little unhappy

652
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 2: and upset about that and how that was handled. But

653
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 2: that being said, come out and just say that one time.

654
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 2: Do want to interview and just say, hey, look, you know,

655
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 2: I feel like I was treated unfairly. I mean, I

656
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 2: know other guys drivers were not conforming. I don't like

657
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 2: the fact that, you know, you guys made such a

658
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 2: big deal out of the fact that I was non

659
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 2: conforming and then it would be over, you know, it

660
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: would be done. I will say, I think he's in

661
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 2: a strange place, you know, after achieving this lifelong goal

662
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 2: of this career Grand Slam and winning the Masters after

663
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 2: sixteen attempts or whatever it was, and he's, you know,

664
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 2: he's struggling a little bit to get reset and come

665
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: up with new goals and everything else. You know, he

666
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 2: made a comment, he did talk Friday after he birdied

667
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 2: the eighteenth hold to make the cut there at Oakmont,

668
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: and he made a comment about something about it it's

669
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: a lot easier to do when you really don't care

670
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 2: whether you're there on the weekend or not, which was like,

671
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 2: that's just not the Rory McElroy that I know. I mean,

672
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 2: you know, he's more competitive than that. So I was

673
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 2: glad to see him play well on Sunday and then

674
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 2: do a bunch better interview. Seemed to handle last week

675
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 2: at the Travelers well. Again, I think it was just

676
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: a temporary blip, and you know, I think he'll be back,

677
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 2: you know, doing what he should be doing.

678
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 3: Should we make it mandatory?

679
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: To me?

680
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 2: When you start making stuff mandatory, you start taking away

681
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: the fact that we're independent contractors. The guys who play

682
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 2: on the tour independent contractors. They set their own schedule.

683
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 2: They're all CEOs of their own business. So if the

684
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 2: CEO of the business decides he doesn't want to talk

685
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 2: to the media, then you know what, it's his decision

686
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 2: to make. It probably won't go on well, it won't

687
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 2: come across well, but it is his decision to make.

688
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: When you look at Rory McRoy, now as a you know,

689
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: he was one of the Grand Slam five majors. You

690
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: followed him a lot. What do you like about his

691
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 1: game and what what do you marvel at about the

692
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: things that he does, Because I I mean, I've been

693
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: lucky enough and that you have those of us that

694
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: have been around the game a long time, and I'm

695
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: I'm glad that I grew up in that kind of

696
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: middle generation. I didn't see Nicholas really play. My dad

697
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 1: talks about it. He's, you know, my dad kind of

698
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: he'll be eighty two in August. He's like, I've seen

699
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: pretty other than he said, I never really saw, you know,

700
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: Gene Sarason play a lot, or Bobby Jones, but he's like,

701
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: you know, other than you know, my dad's eighty two

702
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: and in eight, but he's like, Rory mcroy's one of

703
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: the greatest golfers I've ever seen in my opinion. I mean,

704
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: I got to watch my dad work with Greg Norman,

705
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: and I think Greg Norman's one of the greatest golfers

706
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. I got to watch my dad work

707
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: with Tiger Woods. I think Tiger is the greatest all

708
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 1: but Rory is as good a golfer. As you can

709
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: find what you love about him? What do you like

710
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: watching about it?

711
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I mean let's start the last.

712
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 2: With with the way he drives the golf. I mean,

713
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,399
Speaker 2: you know, to to watch that flight, you know, that

714
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 2: high towering draw, which to me, I feel like when

715
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: you watch a large majority of the players, now, even

716
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 2: the best players, they all tend to fade the ball

717
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 2: now right because the way the drivers are building, the

718
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 2: way the golf balls are designed and everything else, it's

719
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 2: a lot easier and you can make it go far enough,

720
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 2: a lot easier to control, playing something left to right.

721
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 2: And here he'll stand up there and hit this big,

722
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 2: high towering draw that carries three hundred and twenty yards

723
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 2: and it's just and his balance is perfect. I mean,

724
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: it's just. It's a marvel to watch, it really is.

725
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 2: I think a short game is underrated. I think he's

726
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 2: actually pretty good short game wise. I do think one

727
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 2: of the things I've been impressed with the most here

728
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 2: Fairly recently, he talked about he went to a spinniar

729
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,879
Speaker 2: golf ball, and by going to the spinnier golf ball,

730
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,959
Speaker 2: he had to learn how to take some speed off

731
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 2: the short irons, so he didn't spin the ball too

732
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 2: much coming into the greens. So to me, you're seeing

733
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 2: a lot more of these, like kind of three quarter finishes,

734
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 2: a little slower motion through the ball with the short irons,

735
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 2: because he always had a tendency to meet us swing

736
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: to short irons a little bit like the driver, big

737
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 2: full swing, kind of hit a big high draw. Oftentimes

738
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 2: he'd be long left with a short iron. But now

739
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 2: I think he's got the ball under control with his

740
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 2: shorter clubs. I want you know, I can remember your

741
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 2: dad telling me years ago, telling Dustin Johnson, Dustin, you're

742
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 2: going to have probably ten to twelve shots of one

743
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty yards or less every eighteen holes you play.

744
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 2: That's some sort of wedge for you. You need to

745
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 2: figure out how to control the distance with your wedges.

746
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 2: And once he started doing that, track Man with his

747
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 2: wedge play, you know, he got the number one in

748
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 2: the world. So if Rory can continue with that and

749
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 2: continue to improve the short iron play. His putting is streaky,

750
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 2: you know, there's no question about that. But you know

751
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 2: there's been a lot of great players that have had

752
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 2: been streaky with a putter. The good news is is

753
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 2: when he gets going, he keeps going with it, and

754
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 2: that's when he wins tournaments and shoots good scores.

755
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: Is he the complete player? When you look at him,

756
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: you look at him and just say he basically because

757
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: like you said, there are players that are dominant now.

758
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 1: I think you can do that. You can dominate now

759
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: and be a dominant player by doing a couple of

760
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: things really really well. If you've got distance, if you're

761
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: a great driver of the golf ball. When I look

762
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: at Rory his game, in the evolution of his game

763
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: over the years, he has added shots right to the arsenal.

764
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: When he came out, he was winning golf balls by

765
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 1: just hitting a high bomb, nukedraw right, he hit it

766
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 1: further than everybody. He won. Well, where majors got the

767
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: number one in the world.

768
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 2: And you think of those early majors an he won.

769
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 2: Every one of them was soft. Ye, the golf courses

770
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 2: were soft, Valhalla, Congressional, you know they were soft. I

771
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 2: was amazed when I first watched him play how infrequently

772
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 2: he hit any kind of knockdown shot.

773
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, he hasn't really played back.

774
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: Wait for having grown up in Ireland playing you would

775
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 2: have assumed I mean, it's like when I grew up

776
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: down here in Florida, one of the first things I

777
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 2: learned is I got to be a better player, was

778
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 2: how to control the trajectory and knocked the ball down

779
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 2: into the wind. I was amazed when I first watched

780
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 2: Rory play that he didn't have more of that ability.

781
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 2: I think he does now. I think he controls his

782
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 2: trajectory much better than he used to.

783
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 1: Speaking of another complete player this run, Scotty Scheffler's all.

784
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: I mean thirteen events this year's and people forget he

785
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: was heard at the beginning of the year. Right, thirteen events,

786
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: nine top tens, three wins a major. You know, I

787
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: asked Steve Sands, I up Sandy on the podcast a

788
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. And the comparisons that everybody's making

789
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 1: to Tiger, Right, you watched Tiger, You did the iconic

790
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: better than most all of that. Right, But Tiger is

791
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 1: kind of the modern benchmark, where for you Jack was

792
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,959
Speaker 1: the benchmark, sure, but for the modern generation post kind

793
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 1: of Foudo and Norman, Tiger is he's the need all,

794
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: He's the benchmark. So everybody is going to the great

795
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: ones like Rory. Roy gets compared to Tiger. Right, the

796
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,280
Speaker 1: things that Rory does get very closely compared to Tiger

797
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: because he is so dominant and Scotty Scheffler's dominant run

798
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 1: that he's been on now for three four years, first

799
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 1: of all, put it into perspective. How good is it?

800
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: And can it continue? And can he get better?

801
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 3: Right?

802
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 2: Well, it's amazing would be my one word to describe it.

803
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 2: It is amazing, you know, just week after week after week,

804
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 2: which you know does remind you of Tiger a little bit.

805
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 2: You talk about a complete player, he is very close

806
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 2: to that.

807
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:22,240
Speaker 3: In my mind.

808
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: Again, I think his short game is somewhat underrated. I

809
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 2: don't think people talk about it enough, but he seems

810
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 2: to be, you know, very adequate. More than adequate with

811
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 2: his short game. I would say, of all the players

812
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 2: that I've watched through the Tiger era and now you know,

813
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 2: post Tiger, Scotty plays his irons closer to what Tiger

814
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 2: did than anybody I've seen. He tends to hit the

815
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: ball the right distance, a high right, and that was

816
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 2: Tiger's calling card when he was at his best. You know,

817
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 2: he hit the ball the right distance all the time,

818
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 2: And to me, that's something that you can't teach. I mean,

819
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 2: you're a wonderful teacher, you're a great teacher. You can't

820
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:11,359
Speaker 2: teach that. That is, that's an innate thing that some

821
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 2: people have that others don't. I mean, you can have

822
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 2: the greatest technique in the world, but if you don't

823
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 2: have that innate feel and ability to visualize the shot

824
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: that's going to go the right distance, and you know

825
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 2: a lot of times it's a matter of taking just

826
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 2: a little bit of speed off to make the ball

827
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 2: go four yards shorter than it normally does. You know,

828
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 2: you can't teach that. You either have that or you don't.

829
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 2: Scotty does. Scotty has that, and you see it time

830
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 2: and time again. You know that he hits the ball

831
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 2: the right distance with desrons. Putting has gotten better, no

832
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 2: question about it. The work he's done with Phil Kenyan

833
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 2: and go into the claw, grip or whatever you want

834
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 2: to call it. You know, on the shorter putting, he

835
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 2: seems to be better with that, which was probably his

836
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 2: biggest concern, you know, two years ago. Can he get better?

837
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 2: It'll be interesting to me because he does have a

838
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 2: tendency which you know every player you know as well

839
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 2: as I do. Every player has tendencies. He has a

840
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 2: left miss and you see it when he's a little

841
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 2: off the ball wants to start left and then kind

842
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 2: of hang left.

843
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 3: Or maybe even go a little farther left.

844
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 2: And when you're trying to play a cut shot most

845
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 2: of the time, a lot of times that's not a

846
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 2: good thing. And talking to Randy Smith about it, he

847
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 2: said a lot of times it's in his setup. You know,

848
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 2: he just gets set up a little cock eyed, and

849
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 2: and you know the ball starts left of where he

850
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 2: wants and the face isn't open enough to get the

851
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 2: ball to come back to the right. But you know,

852
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 2: and I think that was on full display at Opemond

853
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 2: on Saturday afternoon, you.

854
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 3: Know, Sunday on the front end first, everything left right.

855
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

856
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 2: Now that's not to say that Tiger didn't tendencies too,

857
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 2: He did, you know. I mean again, every player does.

858
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 2: Can you manage those and can you maybe minimize that tendency?

859
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,959
Speaker 2: It wouldn't surprise me at all if Scotty figures that out.

860
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 2: What's the ceiling. Wow, he's already number one, you know what.

861
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 2: He's on a run now like six or seven straight

862
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 2: events where it's worst finished is eighth. I mean it

863
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,720
Speaker 2: just worst finished this year is twenty fifth at waste management,

864
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 2: twentieth afth the players, everything else is a legit, every

865
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 2: single win to win exactly well. I mean the US

866
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 2: Open was a great example. I mean, he clearly did

867
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 2: not have his A game, and I would argue maybe

868
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 2: the first couple of days it might not even have

869
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 2: been his B game. And sure enough, come the end

870
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 2: of the week, where does he finish?

871
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:47,479
Speaker 3: Top ten?

872
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 2: So that and you know, I can remember Tiger, you know,

873
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 2: didn't make a lot of other players very happy. But

874
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 2: sometimes Tiger would announce that he had won with.

875
00:44:58,920 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 3: His B game.

876
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 1: So I'm going to put you on the spot. Yeah,

877
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:05,800
Speaker 1: who has more majors at the end of their career?

878
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: Rory or Scotty? Wow, So we got Rory at five

879
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: and yes he's a little bit older now, yeah, and Scott.

880
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 3: Is at three three.

881
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say Scotti ends up with I Really, I

882
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 2: just think he's I think he's got a lot that

883
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 2: he still wants to do. You know, I think it'll

884
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 2: be interesting to see if Rory can reset, you know,

885
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 2: after reaching that goal of the career Grand Slam and

886
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 2: finally winning the masters. You know, Rory to me is

887
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 2: entering an age where you know, he's thirty five.

888
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 3: Now, and you know, yeah, I mean it's you.

889
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 2: Know, it used to be in my generation, your thirties

890
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 2: were kind of like your prime.

891
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I mean you kind of got out.

892
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 2: On tour in your twenties and you kind of figured

893
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 2: it out and and got better and you know, figured

894
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 2: out maybe how to win.

895
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 3: And then you know, by the.

896
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 2: Time you were in your thirties, kind of your mental

897
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 2: and your physical kind of melded together to reach your peak.

898
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 2: I see that happening a lot earlier now with the

899
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 2: guys on tour, you know, they seem to peak mid twenties,

900
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 2: some of them, you know, so really maybe Scotty's just

901
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 2: coming into his peak and Rory is, you know, accomplished

902
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 2: a lot and can he get himself back and motivated

903
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 2: enough to keep going so you know, it'd be fun

904
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 2: to watch.

905
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: Why Gary, do you think we are seeing this kind

906
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: of trend of You know, my dad talks about this

907
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,479
Speaker 1: a lot. When you used to come out on tour,

908
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: you had to serve an apprenticeship. You needed to kind

909
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: of earn your stripes, learn the ropes, learn the tournaments.

910
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: It was going to take you. Even if you were

911
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 1: a great college player or had a great amateur career,

912
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: it was going to take you. Everybody said, listen, it's

913
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 1: going to take him three, four or five years to

914
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: kind of figure it out. Man, he's going to start winning.

915
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: But we are just seeing on mass for the last

916
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: five to seven years, the players come out of come

917
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: that wolf comes out of college wins me like, these

918
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: players come out. Do you see anything as to why

919
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 1: that is happening more and faster now then maybe it

920
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:22,839
Speaker 1: did in your era or the past. I think one

921
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,280
Speaker 1: of the big things is the technology that's available.

922
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 3: I really do. The instruction is so.

923
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 2: Much better, The technology is better. You know a lot

924
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 2: of a lot of what we did, you know, and

925
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 2: then this goes back to the mid seventies when I

926
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 2: started on the tour. A lot of what we did

927
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 2: was trial and error. I mean it was it was

928
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 2: just trial and error. I mean, you got you started

929
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 2: hitting balls, and if it was drawing too much, you

930
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 2: tried to figure out to make it go to the

931
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 2: other direction.

932
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 1: If you were testing drivers, if you found one you liked,

933
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: I just liked it, and you just used it.

934
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 3: You used it.

935
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 2: I mean, you didn't have numbers, you didn't have launch angle,

936
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 2: you didn't you knew it felt good and when you

937
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 2: swung it produced a shot that you knew you could play.

938
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 2: So I think these guys are just much better prepared

939
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,879
Speaker 2: from that standpoint. And look, there's no question. I mean

940
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 2: when I played in college, I played against some great

941
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 2: players Ben Crenshaw and Tom Kite and you know, Curtis

942
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 2: Strange and Jay Haas, and I mean, you know a

943
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 2: lot of great players. But the sheer number of really

944
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,760
Speaker 2: good players now is so much more than when we played.

945
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 2: And I think because that level of competition is so

946
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 2: much better, these guys are just used to, you know,

947
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 2: performing at a top level sooner. It is interesting, you know,

948
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 2: I think back on my class that you know, when

949
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 2: I went to the tour school in the fall in

950
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five, and everybody talks about, you know, all

951
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 2: these guys are winning.

952
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 3: Right out of the gate now and blah blah blah blah.

953
00:48:55,560 --> 00:49:00,760
Speaker 2: Well, in my class, Bob Gilder won is second start

954
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 2: in Phoenix. I won my sixth start at Tallahassee. Jerry

955
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 2: Pate won the US Open and the Canadian Open. His

956
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 2: rookie year, you know. So it's not like this is

957
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 2: a totally new phenomenon, these guys coming out of college

958
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:23,280
Speaker 2: and winning tournaments right away. So you know, it's happened before,

959
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 2: maybe not as frequently for sure, but you know, the

960
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 2: guys are just better. I mean, they're just better playing.

961
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 2: I mean I think you know, look, I'm three times

962
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 2: first time, you know, all American at Florida. I was

963
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 2: runner up individually in the NCAA tot Crenshaw one year

964
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 2: and Curtis Strains the next year. These guys are so

965
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 2: much better than I was coming out of college. I mean,

966
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:49,839
Speaker 2: you know, I could somewhat hit the ball. I could

967
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 2: putt like crazy, and I could chip like crazy. These

968
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 2: guys now strike the ball. I mean, it's just it's

969
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 2: night and day.

970
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:58,439
Speaker 3: It really is. It's night and day.

971
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 1: Other than obviously, maybe we I was going to say,

972
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: other than the equipment. Maybe we can't take the equipment

973
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 1: out of the equation. But in your mind, what is

974
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five the professional game? How is it

975
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: played differently by the players than when you played? What

976
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: do you look at and go okay, that is just

977
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 1: a completely different way of playing the game. Than we

978
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 1: played it right.

979
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 2: Well, I think it starts with the analytics. You know,

980
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 2: we had no analytics. I mean we just did you know, Yeah,

981
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 2: you might keep your own you know stats. You know

982
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 2: I hit so many yeah, I mean, you know, but

983
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 2: we didn't have analytics as the best way to play holes.

984
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 2: You mentioned Josh Gregory a little earlier about he's now

985
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 2: working with JJ spond. So about four years ago, I'm

986
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,839
Speaker 2: on the range at the Players and Josh is there

987
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 2: and I and I said, Josh, you know, help me

988
00:50:54,640 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 2: understand something. I said, I never see this generation players

989
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 2: lay up. I mean it's always attack, attack, attack, And

990
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 2: I said, why is that?

991
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 1: What?

992
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 2: Help me understand that? And he goes, Gary, these guys

993
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:14,720
Speaker 2: don't fear penalty strokes.

994
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 3: And it was like whoa.

995
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 2: That just blew my mind because in our day, out

996
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 2: of bounds was a complete sin. I mean, you couldn't

997
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 2: afford to hit a ball out of bounds. You're going

998
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 2: to make a double bogie. And we didn't make that

999
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 2: many birdies, so you know, you got to a hole

1000
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 2: where you weren't comfortable.

1001
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 3: It was tight. I mean, you know, you hit a

1002
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,439
Speaker 3: one iron off the tee or whatever. And he goes.

1003
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 2: You have to remember that most of the golf courses

1004
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 2: that these guys play, they're going to reach probably three

1005
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 2: or maybe all four of the par fives and two.

1006
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 2: So they're literally playing par sixty eight or nine golf courses.

1007
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 2: If it's a par seventy two course.

1008
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 1: In their head, they're.

1009
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:56,879
Speaker 3: Like in their head, in their head.

1010
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: And I saw recently Gary, but pretty much everybody on

1011
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour every single year is under par on

1012
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 1: the par fix right right, So it's just full attack.

1013
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 3: Exactly.

1014
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 2: So he goes, Look, if they feel like they're going

1015
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 2: to make two three birdies on the par fives, and

1016
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 2: they're probably going to make another birdie or two somewhere else.

1017
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 3: So if they go for the.

1018
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 2: Green and they hit a ball in the water and

1019
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 2: they make a bobie, it's not that big a deal.

1020
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 3: You know.

1021
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 2: They're just not overly concerned about it because they know

1022
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 2: they're going to make enough birdies to still shoot a

1023
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 2: good score. And that was the most mind boggling thing

1024
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 2: to me because it was so opposite of how we played.

1025
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 2: I mean, we feared penalty strokes. I mean we you

1026
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 2: just you couldn't afford them because you just I mean,

1027
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 2: you know, if I made three birdies around average, three

1028
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 2: birdies around that was probably pretty good. You know, a

1029
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 2: little over three birdies that was great. Well, you know,

1030
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 2: if I hit it out of bounds on the whole,

1031
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 2: there goes, there goes the three birdies that I'm gonna make,

1032
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 2: and you know, you can't shoot a good score. So

1033
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 2: the mindset is just totally different. And look, you know,

1034
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 2: I'm an old fogie and you know sometimes I'm.

1035
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:15,800
Speaker 3: Marvel and wonder.

1036
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 2: You know, can playing out of the rough from eighty

1037
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 2: yards be better than playing from the fairway at one hundred?

1038
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 2: I know where I'd prefer to play from. But obviously

1039
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 2: these guys have the statistics, they have the information, and

1040
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 2: they know that you know, closer yard of the whole,

1041
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 2: the better the score is going to be.

1042
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: I see Gary in twenty three. I mentioned at the

1043
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 1: beginning you won the Paint Store It award. Such an

1044
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 1: amazing honor to be given to you by your peers,

1045
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 1: by the PJ Tour. When you look back at your career,

1046
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 1: both on the course and off the course, Garret, what

1047
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: are you most proud of? Yeah, that's a good question, Claude.

1048
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: I you know, probably you know how you conducted yourself.

1049
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,400
Speaker 1: You know, I was a I was a big, big

1050
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:05,359
Speaker 1: Arnold Palmer fan when I was a kid. Actually got

1051
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 1: to play with him in an exhibition when I was

1052
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 1: seventeen years old, one of the greatest days of my

1053
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:10,760
Speaker 1: entire life.

1054
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 3: And I can just remember how he made.

1055
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 2: Me feel that day, and how he made everybody that

1056
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 2: was around him feel. And that was always a big

1057
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 2: goal of mine.

1058
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 3: You know.

1059
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 2: I used to get letters from notes from my pro

1060
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 2: am partners saying, what a great day, appreciate it, thank

1061
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 2: you very much for being so you know, kind with

1062
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 2: your time and generous. And I would write him back

1063
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 2: and I say, look, I just treated you the way

1064
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 2: I'd like to be treated if the shoe was on

1065
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:41,799
Speaker 2: the other foot. I mean, you know, it's not that

1066
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 2: big a deal. So how you know how I was

1067
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 2: able to conduct myself, obviously, is a big part of it.

1068
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,359
Speaker 2: Peter Jacobson summed it up really nicely too me And

1069
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,839
Speaker 2: Peter's a former pain Steward Award winner too, and he goes,

1070
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 2: you know, you play your way into the Hall of Fame,

1071
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,320
Speaker 2: but your peers vote to you as the pain Steward

1072
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,239
Speaker 2: Award winner, So you know, to be thought of that

1073
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 2: highly by your peers, uh, you know, for a long career.

1074
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 2: I mean I say, I played fifteen or sixteen years

1075
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 2: and did television for you know, another thirty two, so

1076
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 2: you know, it was almost a fifty year career involved

1077
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 2: with a PGA tour. And so to be able to

1078
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 2: be thought of that way by your by your peers is,

1079
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 2: as I said at the acceptance speech that night, it

1080
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 2: was clearly the highlight of my career.

1081
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 1: Wow, it's been so cool to talk to you. You know,

1082
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:30,759
Speaker 1: I missing you and yeah, no team. Honestly, I think

1083
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 1: the game, you know, from a TV standpoint, from a

1084
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:38,720
Speaker 1: broadcast standpoint, is lesser without you on the broadcast weekend

1085
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: and week out like you were for NBC. So it

1086
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 1: was just so special and and you know, I got

1087
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 1: to watch Sunday unfortunately DJ missed the cut and I'm

1088
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 1: sitting there watching the whole broadcast and I was like, man,

1089
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 1: it's an old school US Open, and it's an old

1090
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 1: school we got. We got Roger and Gary back. It

1091
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 1: was great. Yeah, great talking to you Gary, and hopefully

1092
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 1: we will get to see you against soon. But thanks

1093
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:04,880
Speaker 1: for everything you do, and like I said, you've been

1094
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: such a part of the broadcast, part of golf over

1095
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 1: the last you know, twenty thirty years, and I sure

1096
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 1: as hell miss you.

1097
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate that, Claude. I also want to say

1098
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 2: thank you to you because you were one of the

1099
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 2: guys and anytime I needed some information about any one

1100
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 2: of your players and I would shoot a text to you,

1101
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 2: and even if it was in the middle of a telecast,

1102
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 2: I would get a response back right away saying, you

1103
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 2: know DJ's working on this, or this is a new

1104
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,880
Speaker 2: putter in his bagged today, or Brooks is doing this,

1105
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 2: and you know it helped make the broadcast better when

1106
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 2: I can pass along information like that. So appreciate that

1107
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:43,360
Speaker 2: you were a big help to me in my career.

1108
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 1: Well, you were one of the best, and we really

1109
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: appreciate it some of it. Butch comes to you most

1110
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,839
Speaker 1: every week, Rate review, subscribe, wherever you get your podcasts.

1111
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 1: It's the son of a Butch pupcast