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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Did he have help the Charlie Kirk shooting suspects Friends

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Speaker 2: and Furries tonight under the microscope? I, Nancy Grace, this

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Speaker 2: is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: I heard the gunshot go off, and that was when

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Speaker 2: I started hearing of Ussure playing and screaming to get down.

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Speaker 1: I was arfied. He thought it out. He planned it

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Speaker 1: out that much that he knew he had to change

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Speaker 1: clothes to blend in.

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Speaker 3: And it hit him in the.

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Speaker 4: Coroner and artery and that cause to lead out almost.

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Speaker 2: Immediately as the defendant, Robinson is facing formal charges in

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Speaker 2: Utah County Court. Interesting not federal charges, state charge, but

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Speaker 2: the death penalty is the death penalty is the death penalty,

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Speaker 2: whether it's state firing squad or the federal electric chair.

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Speaker 2: That said, facing formal charges as predicted that essentially mirror

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Speaker 2: the charges under which he was arrested, that specifically being

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Speaker 2: the murder of Charlie Kirk, a thirty one year old

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Speaker 2: husband and father of two, for what motive, political hatred,

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Speaker 2: ideology differences really at this.

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Speaker 1: Hour, as we go to air.

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Speaker 2: The defendants friends and Furries under a microscope. Did they

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Speaker 2: know what was happening? What are they clairvoyant? They predicted

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Speaker 2: it online? How did they do that without knowledge? Did

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Speaker 2: they actually help him affect the murder? That and so

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Speaker 2: much more we are learning, specifically.

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Speaker 1: Who got rid of the note? Listen.

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Speaker 5: The suspect wrote a ote saying I have the opportunity

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Speaker 5: to take out Charlie Kirk and I'm going to take it.

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Speaker 5: That note was written before the shooting. At the note,

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Speaker 5: even though it has been destroyed, we have found forensic

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Speaker 5: evidence of the note and we have confirmed what that

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Speaker 5: note says because of our aggressive interview posture at the.

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Speaker 6: FBI, Robinson communicated he had an opportunity to take out

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Speaker 6: Charlie Kirk.

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Speaker 1: And he was going to do it.

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Speaker 6: Robinson reportedly texted the message and left a note in

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Speaker 6: his Saint George apartment. The note was destroyed, but investigators

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Speaker 6: discovered its contents.

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Speaker 1: Through an interview.

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Speaker 6: The FBI is now investigating if anyone refused to intervene

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Speaker 6: or even helped him commit the murder.

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Speaker 2: The sound of FBI Director Cash Patel from our friends

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Speaker 2: at Fox. A lot of people are piling on Patel

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Speaker 2: right now. Could we focus on the killer? I will

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Speaker 2: get to Patel in a moment, but right now it's

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Speaker 2: all about the evidence as formal charges being handed down

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Speaker 2: against Robinson.

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Speaker 1: What note? How did it get destroyed? What did it say?

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Speaker 1: And why would someone destroy it?

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Speaker 2: If Robinson himself did not destroy it, who did? Sounds

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Speaker 2: like a codefendant to me, straight out to senior political

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Speaker 2: reporter Daily Mail, Elena Shirazi, Elena, thank you for being

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Speaker 2: with us.

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Speaker 1: What note? Yeah?

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Speaker 7: So you just heard FBI director Cash Hotel on Fox

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Speaker 7: News on Monday say that Robinson wrote that note, reportedly

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Speaker 7: saying quote, I have the opportunity to take out Charlie

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Speaker 7: Kirk and I'm going to do it. Cash Bettel also

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Speaker 7: said that the suspect wrote this note before the shooting.

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Speaker 7: There was evidence that it existed. It was in their

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Speaker 7: home that he lived with with his romantic partner. But

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Speaker 7: even though Patel says it was destroyed, which there were questions,

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Speaker 7: as you brunt up, Nancy, how was it destroyed? Who

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Speaker 7: destroyed it? Because that is obviously crucial evidence. They've still

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Speaker 7: found forensic evidence.

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Speaker 8: Of the notes and they've confirmed what.

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Speaker 7: The notes said because of aggressive interviews at the FBI.

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Speaker 2: Elena Sharazzi, you are absolutely correct, But I don't like

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Speaker 2: the way that that just tripped off your tongue.

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Speaker 1: I want to.

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Speaker 2: Get every single word you said, all the points you

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Speaker 2: were making, because to me, every one of the points

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Speaker 2: that you so quickly recounted is a point of evidence,

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Speaker 2: you know, to you.

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan's joining me.

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Speaker 2: I want to follow up on everything that Elina Sharazzi

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Speaker 2: just said. Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,

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Speaker 2: head of an incredible program there, author of Blood Beneath

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Speaker 2: My Feet on Amazon's Star and you hit series podcasts

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Speaker 2: Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 1: That's said.

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Speaker 2: He is a death investigator and forensics expert that has

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Speaker 2: handled literally thousands of cases. Joe Scott, why didn't think

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Speaker 2: I just take out an add on third Avenue?

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Speaker 1: I did it?

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Speaker 2: I mean to leave a written note. Now, that's something

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Speaker 2: I would argue in closing arguments. But can we talk

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Speaker 2: about the fact that the FBI director said it was destroyed,

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Speaker 2: but that their investigation led to its contents. I smell

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Speaker 2: a co defendant who destroyed that note? And how did

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Speaker 2: they recreate that note?

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Speaker 9: Yeah?

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Speaker 10: Good question. I'm wondering if this is a physical note,

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Speaker 10: like a handwritten note, I'm wondering if they have found

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Speaker 10: partials of this note that they could have reassembled in

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Speaker 10: some way, and we don't know what destroyed means. Does

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Speaker 10: that mean that it's torn up? Does that mean that

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Speaker 10: it was burned. All of these factors are going to

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Speaker 10: play into it. So is there a chance that there

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Speaker 10: could have been some kind of digital remnant? I have

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Speaker 10: no idea.

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Speaker 2: Hey Jo Scott, let's look at each three of those alternatives,

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Speaker 2: because we know that they've been able to recreate it.

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Speaker 2: So if it was torn up, simple some idgit it's

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Speaker 2: I'm just going out on a limb here and hypothesizing

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Speaker 2: it was either.

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Speaker 1: Him or is your roommate that tore up the note?

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Speaker 2: Yes, that said it could have been somebody else that

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Speaker 2: happened to be in their apartment that tore up the note.

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Speaker 2: If all it was was torn up, we could put

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Speaker 2: that right back together.

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Speaker 1: Again, no problem.

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Speaker 2: If it were burned, different thing that can be recreated too,

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Speaker 2: And it's.

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Speaker 1: Really not that hard.

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Speaker 2: You've been on plenty of arsenal scenes, as have I.

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Speaker 2: When something is burned, very often, unless the ashes have

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Speaker 2: been scattered, you can still read what's on the ashes.

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Speaker 1: That is a fact.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, and we have to understand that the evidence bons

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Speaker 10: team from the FBI, that by the way, is very good,

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Speaker 10: was on top of everything here, working hand in hand

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Speaker 10: with state police. They would have been very careful at

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Speaker 10: all of these scenes. Remember, Nancy, I think that people

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Speaker 10: get lost in the sauce here thinking that there's only

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Speaker 10: one crime scene. Nancy, You've got multiple scenes here, with

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Speaker 10: not just the shooting site, but also the homes that

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Speaker 10: are involved, the vehicles that are involved. There's all kinds

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Speaker 10: of secondary and tertiary scenes involved in this. So this

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Speaker 10: would have been an all hands on deck. They would

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Speaker 10: have treated this note let's just say it wasn't an

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Speaker 10: incinerated status. They would have treated it as if it's

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Speaker 10: a fragile document from the distant past. One other thing

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Speaker 10: I was thinking about if this was written on a

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Speaker 10: notepad perhaps, and they used a tremendous amount of pressure

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Speaker 10: when writing, which a lot of people do. If you

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Speaker 10: find that pad, you can reconstruct it based upon the

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Speaker 10: impressions left on the underlying paper still remaining.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, smart, smart Joe Scott. And of course here here's

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Speaker 2: the other altar of Joe Scott not to be a

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Speaker 2: dead horse, but digitally.

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 2: They said it was a note. They did not say

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Speaker 2: it was a text for an email. But if there's

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Speaker 2: some digital proof of that note, such as, hey, get

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Speaker 2: rid of the note I left on my desk, there

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Speaker 2: you go, there you go, proof of the note?

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Speaker 1: You know, let me go out to a veteran trial lawyer.

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Speaker 2: Franz Borghart, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor at junk Louisiana

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Speaker 2: State University at Borgheart Law Firm dot com.

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Speaker 1: Franz, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: What if I call you on the phone and go, hey, hey, hey,

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Speaker 2: I left a note. I think it's on my desk

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Speaker 2: under my laptop. Could you destroy it right now? Okay,

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Speaker 2: and you destroy it, what can I charge you with

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Speaker 2: after our detection place?

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Speaker 11: So I've now entered the realm of obstruction of justice,

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Speaker 11: possibly aiding in a betting in federal court. Nancy, it's

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Speaker 11: a different crime, but it's all in that family of accomplice.

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Speaker 1: While you may not be able.

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Speaker 11: To be charged with murder, you're certainly looking at serious

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Speaker 11: charges on what might be one of the most serious

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Speaker 11: public murders and quite some time. So you are in

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Speaker 11: a heap of.

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Speaker 1: Trouble in your jurisdiction for obstruction of justice? What's the sentence?

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Speaker 11: It could be five to twenty for obstruction. There's different

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Speaker 11: flavors of obstruction. There's like a lesser one, but five

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Speaker 11: to twenty and you better believe Nancy, they're going to

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Speaker 11: be going for the twenty.

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Speaker 2: You know what I predict, Franz Borgart, I predict the

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Speaker 2: furries and friends are going to talk. They're going to

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Speaker 2: talk rather than do twenty twenty hard on obstruction.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 2: There, and as I made about the roommate maybe being

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Speaker 2: transgender and transitioning, and as friends are furries.

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Speaker 1: Don't care. I don't care who they are, what they believe,

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Speaker 1: what their sex preference is.

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Speaker 2: I don't care what color they are, what religion or

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Speaker 2: no religion they are. All I care about is did

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Speaker 2: they have a hand in Charlie Kirk's brutal and public murder.

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Speaker 2: That's all I care about, guys. There's more more evidence

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Speaker 2: pouring out. Let's take a listen to the friends, especially

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Speaker 2: the friends on that discord chat room.

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Speaker 1: Being under the microscope right now.

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Speaker 12: Listen, did they say it, hear it and think it

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Speaker 12: was some kind of a joke. That's what we're trying

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Speaker 12: to find out now. But I promise you if there's

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Speaker 12: a larger network here, we're going to get that out

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Speaker 12: to the public as soon as we can. Did they

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Speaker 12: know where they sure this or did they hear this

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Speaker 12: and just write it off? That's what we're going to

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Speaker 12: have to find out, and that's what we're investigating.

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Speaker 2: Up from our friends at Fox straight out to Sidney

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Speaker 2: Sumner joining us in addition to Elina Shirazi with Daily Mail.

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Speaker 2: Sidney Sumner Crime Stories investigative reporter.

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Speaker 1: What were the friends clairvoyant?

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Speaker 2: Because didn't they post several of them something big is

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Speaker 2: going to happen on September eleven, some of them.

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Speaker 1: Even naming the place.

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Speaker 2: It'd be funny if someone like Charlie Kirk got shot

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Speaker 2: on September ten. Laughing my ass off? Really, you know what,

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Speaker 2: when you're hauled in for questioning Mushy, I don't think

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Speaker 2: you're going to be laughing your ass off then. And

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Speaker 2: there's more what about it, Sidney Sumner? Oop, here's another one. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: September ten will be a very interesting day. I plead

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Speaker 2: the fifth, Really, why do you plead the fifth? If

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Speaker 2: you haven't done anything wrong, and there's so much more

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Speaker 2: to say. That's on August the sixth, August to six,

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Speaker 2: they're predicting something on the.

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Speaker 1: Tent and then we effing did it.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you guys have something big coming soon. Just be

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Speaker 2: sure you check the news. You'll know it when you

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Speaker 2: see it.

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Speaker 1: Who are these people?

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Speaker 3: Sidney Sumner right, Apparently these are all people that are

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Speaker 3: being investigated as part of Robinson's network that may have

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Speaker 3: known about this. I mean, I don't see a way

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Speaker 3: to defend against Oh, I didn't know anything was happening.

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Speaker 3: It seems like you did.

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Speaker 1: Look at this.

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Speaker 2: Look at this. Charlie Kirk is coming to my college tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: I really hope someone evaporates him. Literally, let's just say

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Speaker 2: same person speaking omar. Let's just say something big will

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Speaker 2: happen tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And look look at all the people that have reposted it,

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Speaker 2: that have hearted it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't think they're clairvoyant. Franz Borghart. It's just like

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Speaker 2: Scott Peterson. Oh, here's another one calls dropout, does not

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Speaker 2: know what's coming tomorrow. They're referring to Charlie Kirk. Biskey

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Speaker 2: didn't get into the military academies.

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Speaker 1: Be ready.

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Speaker 2: This isn't a threat, it's a promise. That's Jackson, Jackson,

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Speaker 2: I want to haul you in by your toenails and

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Speaker 2: find out why you said that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we effing did it.

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Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk has died. Oh, Franz Borgheart Just like Scott Peterson,

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Speaker 2: they're not clairvoyant. Recall Peterson said to his lover, this

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Speaker 2: is going to be my first Christmas without my wife.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna have my first Christmas as a widow, and

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Speaker 2: then bam he did because he murdered her and their

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Speaker 2: unborn baby.

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Speaker 1: Connor. Same thing here. These people are not clairvoyance.

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Speaker 11: I don't know the answer to that.

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Speaker 10: I don't know that.

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Speaker 11: Their quote unquote co conspirators says they knew and didn't

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Speaker 11: say anything. Absolutely foul, absolutely discussing. And you know, if

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Speaker 11: everybody's going to start singing at some point, especially you

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Speaker 11: toss a fire and squad seat, they're not afraid to

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Speaker 11: put someone down, and everybody's going to start singing, and

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Speaker 11: all this forensic.

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Speaker 1: Evidence, all of it, all of it, it's.

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Speaker 11: Going to be used against not only the shooter but

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Speaker 11: also these individuals.

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Speaker 2: Well, what about aiding and a betting. Wouldn't that qualify?

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Speaker 2: Is aiding and a betting cheering someone on in their crime.

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Speaker 1: Not put Franz Borghart up.

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Speaker 2: Look, I know that you're coming at this from a

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Speaker 2: different lens, through a different lens than I am. But

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Speaker 2: just knowing about something is not necessarily crime. But if

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Speaker 2: you aid in a bet, if you further that because

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Speaker 2: spiracy at all, if you encourage encourage is listed in

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Speaker 2: the Aiding and embedded Statute. The black and white letter

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Speaker 2: of the law says, if you aid a bet.

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Speaker 1: Their commas, you don't need everyone.

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Speaker 2: Aid comma a bet, comma, encourage comma. If you encourage

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Speaker 2: a murder, you're in it up to hear Borghart.

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Speaker 11: Well, the federal government and the state are going to

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Speaker 11: have leverage over these people, to be sure, even if

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Speaker 11: it's not a strong aiding and a betting case, Nancy,

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Speaker 11: they're going to be able to say, you know what,

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Speaker 11: we're going to start against the wall and see if

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Speaker 11: we can get to sick. And that's why I think

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Speaker 11: more likely than not, these lower level people these and

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Speaker 11: I say lower level because they weren't holding the gun,

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Speaker 11: but they may be just as responsible. I think that

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Speaker 11: they're going to cooperate and try to cut deals that

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Speaker 11: take death penalty off the table.

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Speaker 2: To doctor Bethany Marshall, joining us renown psycho analysts out

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Speaker 2: of La, author of deal Breaker. You can see her

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Speaker 2: now on peacock at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Doctor Bethany,

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Speaker 2: Who are the ghules that stand by and let a young.

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Speaker 1: Father of two.

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Speaker 2: Get shot in the throat, tearing his throat out and

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Speaker 2: then they cheer after forget what they did, after the

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Speaker 2: aiding and embedding, the encouraging this.

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Speaker 1: That is a crime, a felony yancy.

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Speaker 9: These ghouls are people who are also homicidal. You don't

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Speaker 9: shear somebody on unless you also have homicidal ideation. Now,

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Speaker 9: what's interesting about this shooting is it has some aspects

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Speaker 9: of a.

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Speaker 8: School shooting, not all.

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Speaker 9: It's an assassination as well, and that he was standing

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Speaker 9: at the top of a building. It was an efficient

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Speaker 9: of barrel quality, scaring students, creating a power differential in school.

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Speaker 9: Shooters tend to confess online and everybody overlooks it now

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Speaker 9: because they're afraid to turn the guy in, or they

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Speaker 9: minimize or discount it. What's interesting and different about this

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Speaker 9: is this Purp was actually recruiting followers, and the followers

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Speaker 9: willingly went along. And then I think one of the

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Speaker 9: ways that he recruited followers was through gaming and having

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Speaker 9: people watch him playing violent games, and so he was

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Speaker 9: kind of creating an army of support. And I'm going

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Speaker 9: to say these people wished Kirk dead as much as

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Speaker 9: the Purp did. They just didn't have to pick up

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Speaker 9: the gun and do it themselves, but they certainly egged

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Speaker 9: him on and pushed him towards it, And in my mind,

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Speaker 9: that is complicity at a psychological level.

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Speaker 12: Did they say it, hear it and think it was

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Speaker 12: some kind of a joke. That's what we're trying to

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Speaker 12: find out now. But I promise you, if there's a

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Speaker 12: larger network here, we're going to get that out to

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Speaker 12: the public as soon as we can. Did they know

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Speaker 12: where they sure this or did they hear this and

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Speaker 12: just write it off. That's what we're going to have

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Speaker 12: to find out, and that's what we're investigating.

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Speaker 2: He changed clothes to us to void so as to

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Speaker 2: avoid detection. He covered his tracks, he parked far away,

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Speaker 2: he hid his weapon, He had to go back and

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Speaker 2: retrieve his weapon. He tried to cover his face. Everything

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Speaker 2: indicates he knew what he was doing was wrong and

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Speaker 2: he tried to hide it afterwards. So this guy, the

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Speaker 2: Kirk suspect, he ain't all that in a bag of chips.

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Speaker 2: Let me throw a technical legal term at you, idiot,

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Speaker 2: ange and I we're learning a potential motive hatred old

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Speaker 2: as dirt.

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Speaker 1: In one text sent by the.

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Speaker 2: Allegislator, he was asked why he said some hatred cannot

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Speaker 2: be negotiated with. The alleged shator says, some hatred cannot

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Speaker 2: be negotiated with. And you know what that says to me,

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Speaker 2: Maybe you won't get a plea negotiation. Think about it.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if his own words will be thrown back

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Speaker 2: in his face. Will this be a death penalty case

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Speaker 2: in the end, or will it fizz out like coburger

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Speaker 2: before the public knows what really happened in the degree

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Speaker 2: of planning involved.

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Speaker 1: In Kirk's murder.

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Speaker 2: Right now we are learning formal charges and they mirror

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Speaker 2: the charges on which he was arrested.

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Speaker 1: This is how it goes.

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Speaker 2: Police have pc problem cause to arrest you. The arrest

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Speaker 2: is for let's just say, murder and weapons charges. Generally speaking,

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Speaker 2: the formal charges and indictment will mirror what the cops

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Speaker 2: used to arrest you for simple Now, sometimes additional events

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Speaker 2: will come to light and there may be different or

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Speaker 2: additional charges. That said, that's exactly what is happening in

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Speaker 2: this case. There are additional charges, but the one that

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Speaker 2: really matters is murder. Now we are learning that the

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Speaker 2: shooter was apparently radicalized online city summer. Before we discuss that,

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Speaker 2: could you just remind everybody how many thousands of hours

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Speaker 2: the alleged sheater was online.

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Speaker 3: Well, we know from his Twitch channel, so this is

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Speaker 3: the amount of streaming games and he's played that he's

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Speaker 3: publicly put out there for everyone to watch more than

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Speaker 3: two thousand hours. That's over ten years. But when you

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Speaker 3: do the math there, that's an hour a day. Lease.

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Speaker 2: Now, when you say that that was the amount we

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Speaker 2: know of that was streamed, a lot of people are

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Speaker 2: not familiar with what that means, nor should they be

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Speaker 2: familiar with it. They're out working and having lives. My

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Speaker 2: understanding is he would play online, and there were two

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Speaker 2: thousand hours of him playing online that he posted.

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Speaker 1: Or that people could watch as he streamed it.

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Speaker 2: That doesn't include all the online activity that he didn't

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Speaker 2: share streaming.

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Speaker 1: Is that right?

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Speaker 3: It's absolutely right. So Twitch is like Facebook for video games,

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Speaker 3: So it's like streaming yourself live on Facebook, and people

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Speaker 3: can tune in and watch as you're playing the video game.

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Speaker 3: So there's no telling how many hours he played, not publicly,

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Speaker 3: just on his own devices without streaming it to everyone.

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Speaker 3: This is only a fraction of what he shared publicly.

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Speaker 2: So the reason I'm telling you about this is because

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Speaker 2: many suspect he was radicalized online, steeped in political hatred online.

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Speaker 13: Listen, I will say that that person has been very

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Speaker 13: cooperative with authorities.

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Speaker 6: An anonymous family member of the person Robinson lives with

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Speaker 6: believes Lance Twigs radicalized Robinson. The woman says Twigs is

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Speaker 6: very low contact with their family and hates them for

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Speaker 6: their political and religious beliefs. She blames immersion and online

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Speaker 6: gaming culture for some of the personality changes seen in

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Speaker 6: the roommates since moving in together, but her gut tells

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Speaker 6: her Twig provided the fuel behind Robinson's sudden extremism.

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Speaker 13: There was kind of that that deep dark Internet, the

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Speaker 13: Reddit culture and these other dark places of the Internet

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Speaker 13: where this person was going deep.

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Speaker 2: That from our friends, that's the Utah Governor Spister Cox

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Speaker 2: from NBCIT speaking earlier crime stories with Nancy Grace, Chris

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Speaker 2: McDonald joining me, Director Cole Case Foundation, star of the

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Speaker 2: Interview Room on YouTube, but former homicide detective working over

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Speaker 2: three hundred homicides plus more. Chris mc donald, motive doesn't matter. Now,

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Speaker 2: I know that sounds off base, but the reality is

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Speaker 2: motive does not have to be proved by the state period.

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Speaker 1: However jury's like to hear it.

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Speaker 2: What do you think about this radicalized online You know, Nancy.

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Speaker 4: There's a couple of things happening right now that are

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Speaker 4: fluid in this investigation. They are scraping the internet for

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Speaker 4: every click, every keyboard click from mister Robinson's devices, and

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Speaker 4: those keyboard clicks will tell us any kind of messaging

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Speaker 4: that may or may not have been going back and

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Speaker 4: forth to the streaming platforms where these gamers hang out.

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Speaker 4: The roommate hung out on a variety of different type

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Speaker 4: of streaming platforms. One of them was Twitch, the other

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Speaker 4: one was what they call steam Steam. I've been on

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Speaker 4: the ground the last three days here in Utah. This

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Speaker 4: is where the investigation is focusing. There's one other point

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Speaker 4: that they're trying to establish and that's the car and

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Speaker 4: of itself. They've pulled the telematics out of the car.

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Speaker 4: They want to know if that car was moving when

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Speaker 4: that shot went off, if that car was moving. Now

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Speaker 4: we're into another direction that this investigation.

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Speaker 1: Could take hold on.

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Speaker 2: That is a bombshell repeat about the car potentially moving

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Speaker 2: while Robinson allegedly scaled down the side of that wall

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Speaker 2: while he was shooting, while he was laying in white

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Speaker 2: and a sniper's nest.

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Speaker 4: What yeah, And while we remember when we talked the

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Speaker 4: other day, Nancy, that the car was at his residence

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Speaker 4: right there. Well, of course it had to get there.

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Speaker 4: So they're tracking his phone pings and his phone pings

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Speaker 4: just kind of my understanding, they're not positive if it

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Speaker 4: went to a car or if the car was parked,

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Speaker 4: et cetera. So they now have that car and they

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Speaker 4: have pulled the data on that car, and that's going

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Speaker 4: to potentially take them either A it was parked or

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Speaker 4: B there's something else going on here and somebody is

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Speaker 4: driving a car to.

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Speaker 2: Elena Shirazi, joining a senior political reporter Daily Mail, Elena,

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Speaker 2: we were looking at video and steals of the same

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Speaker 2: video of the defendant walking through a neighborhood. He had

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Speaker 2: thought ahead, Elena, as you well know, and changed his outfit.

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Speaker 2: Take a look at this. This is him walking through

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Speaker 2: a neighborhood. That's where friends at TMZ in an entirely

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Speaker 2: different outfit. Now, when he was neiling down and lying

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Speaker 2: on his stomach, he was wearing what you see on

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Speaker 2: the right.

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Speaker 1: Now, Wait a minute, eight o seven.

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Speaker 2: He's on foot eleven forty nine, his change clothes, his

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Speaker 2: back on foot.

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Speaker 1: Where was his car? Did someone drop him at a

444
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: drop point and pick him back up? Did he hide

445
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: his car somewhere and go back to it? Elena? What

446
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: do we know?

447
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 14: Yeah?

448
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 7: I mean looking at all of this, including those discord

449
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 7: messages that the FBI is looking through, that sort of

450
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 7: predicted that this would happen, the fact that he was

451
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 7: so entrenched in these groups, also referencing, of course, his

452
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 7: romantic partner, which authorities say he became really radicalized, sort

453
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 7: of impassioned by his views afterwards. So I mean, looking

454
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 7: at this, I mean it started with a note and

455
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 7: will end with a funeral. They recovered the Malser ninety

456
00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 7: eight rifle. There was a towel with DNA print there

457
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,239
Speaker 7: is enough evidence there. The big question now is was

458
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 7: he working alone? And they do have evidence that they're

459
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 7: looking through now that could potentially point to that. But

460
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 7: we certainly, we certainly will see. He just ditched his

461
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 7: gun in the forest, in the woods before he wins,

462
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 7: so it was premeditated. As you said, he changed his clothes.

463
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 7: It was planned. But he's clearly not an expert because

464
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:33,959
Speaker 7: he left his DNA.

465
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: Elena were showing right now.

466
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: You're correct where he ditched the gun, and we had

467
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: on the little facts that we knew at the time,

468
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 2: hypothesized that the tree area, the tree line where he

469
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 2: ditched the gun was not up in the mountains where

470
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 2: many people thought he had scanted up into the mountains

471
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 2: pulling an Eric Rudolf, the Olympic bomber. He lived in

472
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 2: the mountains for years before he was caught, but somewhere

473
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: close to road. So that leads me to wonder did

474
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 2: someone pick him up in his vehicle after he ditched

475
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 2: the gun. Little did he know a towel is the

476
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 2: perfect conduit for DNA.

477
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonna, you stated that the car.

478
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 2: And its NAV system is being reviewed now to determine

479
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: if it was moving at the time Charlie Kirk was murdered.

480
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 2: How does that work?

481
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: How do they do that?

482
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 4: So what they do is they pull the navigation system

483
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 4: out as well as some of what they call a

484
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 4: telematic system, and they're able to send that to either

485
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 4: Chronicle or Salt Lake City, where they have also an

486
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 4: FBI office, And in that data you're able to see

487
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 4: exactly what that car is doing, if it's moving, you know,

488
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 4: if it makes if the blinker comes on, et cetera.

489
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 4: There's a tremendous amount of forensic data that can be

490
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 4: had there. And let's not forget that the that Tyler

491
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 4: Robinson at this point also post thomicide bold his roommate

492
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 4: to go, you know, potentially go get that gun. Okay, Now,

493
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 4: why would he do that? What's going on there? And

494
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 4: so this is the angle I think the law enforcement

495
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 4: is running on in terms of trying to get the

496
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 4: bigger circle, because I think that the car and of

497
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 4: itself is going to be very critical in relationship to if,

498
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 4: like we were talking about here, Nancy.

499
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: If it's moving, if it's right.

500
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 10: About it, Hey, look his car, I like that in

501
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 10: the possessive who's driving the car Nancy, They've already found

502
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 10: DNA on a towel. This is going to be very

503
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 10: compelling to me. They will search this car thoroughly. Chris

504
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 10: had mentioned the electronics in the car, but I'm interested

505
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 10: in contact Tracey DNA on that steering wheel. I want

506
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 10: to know is there anybody else's DNA in that car

507
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 10: that is not an owner of the vehicle, who's operating

508
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 10: the vehicle, if they've gone down this road relative to

509
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 10: this towel. Remember they found the screwdriver as well that

510
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 10: they say had remnant of DNA. Well, if someone is

511
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 10: using the gear lever, if someone is opening the door

512
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 10: inside of this vehicle, somebody is obviously steering it. I

513
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 10: want to know did they recover any touch DNA inside

514
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 10: of this vehicle? And also are there any latent prints

515
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 10: inside the vehicle? Now we know if he's in a

516
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 10: relationship with this person, it's not beyond understanding that that

517
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 10: individual would occupy that space. However, it opens the door

518
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 10: for other questions forensically, like operating the vehicle. Have you

519
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 10: ever operated this vehicle before? And you begin to press

520
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 10: this individual relative to more information, Well.

521
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 2: Think about it, Jesscott Morgan, here's a great example. I

522
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 2: know you recall the reporter Teresa Halback who was sex assaulted, murdered,

523
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,719
Speaker 2: and her body burned in a fire pit in the

524
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: backyard of Stephen Avery.

525
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: All that was found were some of her.

526
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 2: Teeth and the studs on the back of her Dacy

527
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 2: Flints jeans. Her vehicle was part at the end of

528
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: his auto salvage lot covered up and on the ignition

529
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 2: was his sweat where he can you imagine hunched over

530
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 2: the wheel trying to crank up her car and go

531
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 2: hide it, just sweating onto the ignition, and the LA

532
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 2: there law enforcement got his sweat off the ignition. I mean, yes,

533
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 2: you're right, but here's one thing. I understand everything you're saying,

534
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 2: and you're absolutely correct. The thing I don't understand, Doctor

535
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall. If somebody calls you after you gunned down

536
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 2: tearing his throat out and say hey, hey, can you

537
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 2: get me a ride, and.

538
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: The person says, oh, yeah, here I come.

539
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: I was just circling who and the h A double

540
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 2: al goes.

541
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: Along with that.

542
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 9: See, Nancy, this is where I think the behavioral evidence

543
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 9: is so important. Let's say these two are acting in concert.

544
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 9: What we know about men who are homicidal who act

545
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 9: in concert is usually there's a stronger male who recruits.

546
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 8: A more vulnerable male. And what we're going to see

547
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 8: if you look.

548
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 9: At all of the Twitch accounts, how he they were

549
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 9: interacting with people online.

550
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 8: What I'm interested in.

551
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 9: Is is it just the purp on Twitch playing violent

552
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 9: games in front of a following, or is it the

553
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 9: two of them.

554
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 8: Recruiting a following.

555
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 9: To me, that is so vital and that's going to

556
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 9: be very easy to see Nancy, whose face is there,

557
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 9: who's electronic foot bridge is there? And I also think

558
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 9: of this almost like a small cult where you have

559
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 9: two people who are just getting a ground swell of support.

560
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:14,959
Speaker 2: As of tonight, the suspect Robinson has stopped cooperating, but men,

561
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: a true word.

562
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: Is spoken in jest. Take a listen.

563
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 13: The suspect has not been cooperating so far, and so

564
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 13: we're getting all of this information from family members again again,

565
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 13: people around the suspect.

566
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 6: Almost immediately after the release, Robinson's friends called him out

567
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 6: in their discord group chat. When asking Robinson where he is,

568
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 6: Robinson shoots back, it's my doppelganger trying to get me

569
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 6: in trouble another for claims Tyler killed Charlie a third,

570
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 6: So just turning Robinson in for the reward, and Robinson sneers,

571
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 6: only if I get a cut.

572
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 2: He saw the Governor speaking to our friends at NBCA.

573
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 2: Dr Bethany Marshall, help me out here. You just take

574
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 2: a two hundred yard shot and tear the throat out

575
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 2: of a h been father, Okay, and then you're joking

576
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: about getting a cut of the reward when you're the killer.

577
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 9: Actually, Nancy, this does fit the profile of this kind

578
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 9: of a killer, because what it tells me is that

579
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 9: he had some kind of paranoid ideation, meaning that he

580
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,240
Speaker 9: felt that Charlie Kirk's presence on this earth was affecting

581
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 9: him negatively in some way. So once he takes him out,

582
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 9: there's a relief phase. There's always a relief phase after

583
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 9: homicide or somebody's calm. We saw Casey Anthony going shopping

584
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 9: kind of dancing on the other person's brave, So I

585
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 9: think that's really probative here that the fact that they're

586
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 9: joking with each other because the group is getting their

587
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 9: jolly's off. They're very happy that this has happened.

588
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: It's almost as if he's giddy. Li wasn't to this.

589
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 6: The chat continues, joking, now, Luigi Mangioni was caught. Whatever

590
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 6: you do, don't go to a McDonald's anytime soon. Robinson

591
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 6: replying he better get rid of this manifesto an exact

592
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,720
Speaker 6: copy rifle I have lying around before, insisting the shooter

593
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 6: is clearly from California.

594
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 2: Elena Shirazi, joining a senior political reporter Daily Mill, explain

595
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 2: they are comparing the shooting of Charlie Kirk to the

596
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 2: shooting of Brian Thompson, the health CEO.

597
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 1: Correct. Yeah, they're trying to draw.

598
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 7: Comparisons there and just kind of make some comments in

599
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 7: jest for Luis Gimi and Ngioni, who was arrested Adam McDonald's.

600
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 7: So you know, they responded with a punchline to that.

601
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 7: So the question is if they truly believe that Robinson

602
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 7: didn't do it, you know, that could be a part

603
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 7: of the reason why they were joking. If they did

604
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 7: know it was him, that's an entire story in and

605
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 7: of its own, but you can imagine what was going

606
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 7: through a second.

607
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 2: You're right, Elena, But I want to point out to

608
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 2: doctor Bethany Marshall.

609
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: They're comparing him to Luigi Mangioni.

610
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 2: Who we have on VDA shooting Brian Thompson dead, sneaking

611
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 2: up on him like a coward and.

612
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: Shooting him dead, much the way.

613
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk was shot dead at a distance, so the

614
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 2: shooter couldn't be hurt or attacked.

615
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: It's easy to shoot somebody, gun them down with a

616
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 1: scope in a long.

617
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 2: Runing's rifle, right, And here he is talking about, yeah,

618
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 2: I better not. I better get rid of my manifesto

619
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 2: like Manngioni's manifesto, and I got to get rid of

620
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 2: the copy rifle. He's not saying, what are you talking about.

621
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: I didn't do this. I would never kill anybody.

622
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 8: You know, Nancy.

623
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 9: If you dress it up as a homicide for some

624
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 9: kind of ideological reason, you just rationalize to yourself that

625
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 9: it's okay. But the end of the day, homicide is homicide, okay.

626
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 9: And I think of homicide in a case like this

627
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 9: he talks about hatred. I think underneath the hatred is

628
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 9: basic envy. Charles Kirk had a great life, a great wife,

629
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 9: two beautiful children. He had the public stage. He was beloved.

630
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 9: It was kind of a provocateur, but people flocked to

631
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 9: debate with him and to hear what he had to say.

632
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 9: And I think that these purpse and I'm going to

633
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 9: put an s on the end of this because I

634
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 9: think they all polluted. Even though the group didn't want

635
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,720
Speaker 9: to get their hands dirty. They say one soldier out,

636
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 9: it's a group. I think there's basic envy towards somebody

637
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,760
Speaker 9: who was leading a great life.

638
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 8: They couldn't stand it.

639
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 2: Does that fit in with many of these cohorts of

640
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 2: his leading a secret life as a furry?

641
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 8: We don't, Nancy.

642
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 9: I'm kind of sad that furries have gotten drawn into

643
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 9: this because by and large, the furries are sort of

644
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 9: a diverse community of people who are fun loving. They

645
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 9: like to have personal expression. They talk about wearing fur suits,

646
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 9: which they'll spend months making.

647
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,240
Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk had his throat torn out.

648
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 2: I appreciate your defance of the furries, but can we

649
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 2: please focus on the murder?

650
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 1: Okay?

651
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 9: Well, Nancy, there is a small portion of the furry

652
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 9: community they talk about expressing their personalities wearing their fur suits,

653
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 9: but a small port a portion of them have fetishes

654
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 9: in that dressing up as an animal is very sexualized. Now.

655
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 8: Interestingly, the shooter made.

656
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 9: A reference to his bulge, telling me that he equated

657
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 9: shooting Charlie kirk with having an erection, meaning that there

658
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 9: was a sexual thrill in shooting him in the throat.

659
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 9: So we have envy, we have school shooting psychology. We

660
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 9: also have sexual excitement, which tells me that you have

661
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 9: a group of followers online who in some ways have

662
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 9: also fetishized killing. I don't think this makes the furry

663
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 9: community look very good. I don't think this has to

664
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 9: do with furries.

665
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: I think this has to do with the.

666
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 2: Little nobody's running from his congeniality right now, Doctor Bethany,

667
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: And what I tried to ask you was is part

668
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 2: of a rich fantasy life, pretending you're an animal. Okay,

669
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 2: if you're already living in another realm, is this just

670
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 2: a part of your pretend world?

671
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: I mean Kirkus did.

672
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 2: And whether they were going along gleefully, it wasn't real.

673
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 2: They were going along with it in real life, whether

674
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 2: they meant to or not. The seed Doctor presumes you

675
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 2: intend the natural consequence of your act. And when you

676
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 2: help encourage eight and bet someone to commit and murder,

677
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 2: whether you're pretending or it's your fantasy, doesn't matter. The

678
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 2: law assumes you intend the natural consequence of your act.

679
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

680
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 2: And I want to point out that so many people

681
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 2: are gleeful over murder.

682
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: Listen to this.

683
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 6: Real world consequences for hateful responses to Kirk's murder. A

684
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 6: surgeon resigned after loudly proclaiming Kirk got what he deserved.

685
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 1: DC canceled a.

686
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 8: Comic book series after just one issue.

687
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 6: Because the artists posted I hope the bullets okay. As

688
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,760
Speaker 6: quickly as they ran to social media to celebrate Kirk's death,

689
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 6: many returned with news of their firings, many extremely angry.

690
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: Or in tears over the shocking development.

691
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 10: To hold me dead, go help me dead?

692
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: He hold me dead? Good cravy, What was that? Said?

693
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 2: They?

694
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 1: What was that? Well?

695
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 3: That was eighteen year old At Cameron Giselle, who approached

696
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 3: a student on campus who was standing there holding a

697
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 3: sign that said rest in peace, Charlie Kirk and was

698
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 3: decorated with photos of him. This was one student by himself,

699
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 3: standing there memorializing Kirk, not really speaking with anyone unless

700
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 3: somebody approached him specifically, and Giselle felt the need to

701
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 3: attack this person for standing out there with a memorial sign.

702
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 3: So you saw her insane song that she was singing.

703
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 3: She was getting in his face as other students gotten.

704
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 2: But you're glossing over the fact.

705
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: Sydney.

706
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 2: She said, if your homie did, he got shot in

707
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:40,720
Speaker 2: the head.

708
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: If your homie did, That's what she was saying.

709
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 2: And that is from at as private story on TikTok. Now, Okay,

710
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: I want you to see the nurse that called this

711
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 2: took some guts, called a surgeon on celebrating Kirk's murder.

712
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 14: No, I'm not fired as of right now. Now, right now,

713
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 14: I am suspended and definitely unpaid. Why so I walked

714
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 14: into the nurses station and I just had learned about

715
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,919
Speaker 14: Charlie Kirk. I saw this guy, I didn't know who

716
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 14: he was at the time, and he was standing there

717
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 14: and celebrating the death of Charlie Kirk, saying how he

718
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 14: deserved it. He hated Charlie Kirk and he had it

719
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:25,800
Speaker 14: coming to him.

720
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: That from our friends at Fox.

721
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 2: That took a lot of guts to call out a surgeon.

722
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 1: But there's war.

723
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 9: So we came into an order earlier for the poster for.

724
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: Our vigil tonight. Yes, for somebody that it's not.

725
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 2: That year, it's propaganda. I'm sorry, we don't print that here.

726
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 2: What was that about Sydney?

727
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 3: So they were trying to hold a candlelight visual for

728
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk and they wanted posters printed at office depot

729
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:04,959
Speaker 3: for that vigil, and these employees refused to print them,

730
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 3: calling them propaganda. So they were very pleasant in their conversation,

731
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 3: but Office Max Corporate had a huge problem with their behavior.

732
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 3: FedEx ended up printing the posters for free after seeing

733
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 3: this video, and those employees have been fired.

734
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: That video is from m at md a pere noo

735
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: on X. But here's the rub to Franz.

736
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 2: Borghart's a veteran trial lawyer joining us out at baton

737
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:36,879
Speaker 2: rouge Franz, here's the deal. We may disagree with their

738
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 2: behavior and what they're doing and what they're saying. We

739
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:44,959
Speaker 2: may think it's bloodthirsty and disgusting, much like we feel

740
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 2: when somebody burns the flag or has opposed to it says

741
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 2: f America, or burns a beloved figure or political figure

742
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 2: in effigy. We don't like it, but it's the First Amendment.

743
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,959
Speaker 2: So now refusing to do your job at Office Max

744
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 2: or wherever that was is a whole nother can of worms.

745
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 2: But these people dancing on Charlie Kirk's grave are disgusting.

746
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 1: Whether you agree with.

747
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 2: Kirk or not doesn't matter. The guy was murdered, his

748
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 2: children don't have a father. I don't think they can

749
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 2: be prosecuted, not at all, for saying whatever they want

750
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:23,919
Speaker 2: to say.

751
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 15: So here's where the rubber beats the road, Nancy. If

752
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 15: they're in a state where there's inciting violence laws, and

753
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 15: generally those can be felonies, those are not going to

754
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 15: withstand the First Amendment defense. Can't shout fire in a

755
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 15: crowded theater. You cannot try to incite violence at a memorial.

756
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 15: People who do stupid stuff at their jobs, they're going

757
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 15: to get fired. But depending on where these people are

758
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 15: acting and what they are saying, they may not be

759
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 15: able to escape some kind of arrest or criminal prosecution.

760
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 15: And look, justifiably, if you're trying to incite violence at

761
00:44:58,080 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 15: a memorial, I think you shouldn't be.

762
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: A Hey, you're preaching to the choir.

763
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 2: The investigation into the assassination of Charlie Kirk husband.

764
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: And father goes on.

765
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about the

766
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 2: plot to murder Kirk, please call toll free eight hundred,

767
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 2: call FBI eight hundred, two two five, five, three two

768
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 2: four or eight zero one five seventy nine fourteen hundred.

769
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 2: You can go to tips dot FBI dot gov. And

770
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:42,760
Speaker 2: now we remember an American hero. Deputy Sheriff Andres Lahara,

771
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,720
Speaker 2: Citrus County Sheriff's Office, killed in the line of duty

772
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 2: after fourteen years of service. Leaves behind a grieving wife, Michelle,

773
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 2: and two sons without a father.

774
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 1: Vincent and Nicholas.

775
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:03,800
Speaker 2: American hero Deputy Sheriff On Dress Lira Nancy Grace signing

776
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 2: off goodbye friend,