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Speaker 1: Hi am Kate Hudson, and my name is Oliver Hudson.

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Speaker 1: We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationships and

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Speaker 1: what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling reivalry. No, no, sibling,

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Speaker 1: you don't do that with your mouth. Revelry. That's good.

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Speaker 1: So we got an opportunity to talk to our favorite

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Speaker 1: Sansee Gupta and his brother Snil Gupta, and we got

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Speaker 1: so excited that we literally just jumped into a conversation.

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Speaker 1: And when this episode starts, it's literally it literally goes

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Speaker 1: right into a conversation. Yes, and but him and his

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Speaker 1: brother have such like a beautiful relationship and it's it's

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Speaker 1: it was nice to hear them talk about how they

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Speaker 1: haven't had time to talk like that before, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, bringing them on was interesting. They got to

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Speaker 1: have a conversation with each other that they haven't had

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Speaker 1: in a long time, and and it was fun to

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Speaker 1: sort of feel that energy back and go back and

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Speaker 1: forth with the two of them. It was so great.

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Speaker 1: And during this time, during the pandemic, Sanjay has been

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Speaker 1: this very comforting educational voice for us about coronavirus and

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen and and they're just both so smart and

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Speaker 1: so in tune, and you know, they're so curious in

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Speaker 1: their different in their respective fields, and it's just it's

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Speaker 1: been really it was really fun. I could have I

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Speaker 1: could have talked to them for six hours. I had

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Speaker 1: so many questions. It was really lovely to you talk

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Speaker 1: to Sanjay and Sneil get an understanding of how they

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Speaker 1: grew up and they're a decade apart, ten years, so

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Speaker 1: quite different upbringings and reminiscing about childhood, you know, getting

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Speaker 1: into Sanjay's air band where he had you know, had

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Speaker 1: a band with just all air instruments and like performed

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Speaker 1: across you know, the greater Michigan area. And then, like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, so much happens in just a week. So

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Speaker 1: even just to go back from a month, it feels

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Speaker 1: like forever ago. But this we recorded, i would say

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Speaker 1: about a month ago, and it was just a lovely,

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Speaker 1: wonderful conversation. We loved getting to know the group dies.

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Speaker 1: So here it is and enjoy this episode. Sandray's been

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Speaker 1: telling me this for a long time when he was

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Speaker 1: trying to get me to eat better. Yeah, he was

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Speaker 1: not the he was not the healthiest kid, you know,

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Speaker 1: And we're we're ten years age difference. Yeah, so you know,

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Speaker 1: I was kind of I was kind of a third

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Speaker 1: parent to him. And uh and and when and then

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Speaker 1: when I was going, you know, getting interested in medicine,

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Speaker 1: I you know, he was sort of my guinea pig.

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Speaker 1: I'd try out various things. But he can I tell

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Speaker 1: the story sitting real quick about your your diet, that

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Speaker 1: is that. Yeah, you can tell this story. But just

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Speaker 1: just this, this will clear up a lot for both

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Speaker 1: of you. Kate, Like, if you're like, this guy's weird,

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Speaker 1: you have to blame. Oh wait, I wasn't going in

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Speaker 1: that direction. I want I want that I was taking

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Speaker 1: credit for your for your exquisite physical and mental health.

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Speaker 1: Oh right, right, right, right, right, go ahead. But this

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Speaker 1: one time I was, I was home. I was I

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Speaker 1: was home visiting from college. Uh. And I guess I

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Speaker 1: was in med school maybe at the time. So Neil,

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Speaker 1: you were I think you were eight or nine years old.

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Speaker 1: You were young, and I was in college. And I

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Speaker 1: came home and I was sitting at the kitchen table

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Speaker 1: and I was just sitting there, and our parents both

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Speaker 1: were and Sneil came home from school and and you know,

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Speaker 1: we were latch key kids. Right, so you come home,

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Speaker 1: you're doing your thing. He didn't know that I was home,

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Speaker 1: but I was sitting at the kitchen table watching him.

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Speaker 1: He came into the house and Mom would stick all

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Speaker 1: the all the hostess treats, like the twinkies and the

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Speaker 1: king and the was it the king dongs? King dongs

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Speaker 1: were those chuck chink king dongs. Not that I was

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Speaker 1: on the on the on the upper upper shelf, the

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Speaker 1: highest shelf of the closet, and so I was sitting

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Speaker 1: there and he came in in a in a tsunami

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Speaker 1: of activity and threw down his bags, immediately grabbed a

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Speaker 1: chair and then stacked another chair on top of that.

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Speaker 1: It was, it was, it looked like he might, you know,

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Speaker 1: he might fall, got up on both chairs, reached at

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Speaker 1: the very top of the shelf and took down, took

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Speaker 1: down two twinkies while he still precariously balanced, stuffed both

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Speaker 1: of these twinkies in his mouth, left the wrappers the

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Speaker 1: top shelf, got down. I didn't want to say anything

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Speaker 1: cause I was afraid if I said something, I would

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Speaker 1: it would jar him and he would fall. Then he

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Speaker 1: got down and he was starting to stack the chairs,

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Speaker 1: and I said, Hey, Senil, this had this twiky frostings

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Speaker 1: his mouth. I mean literally kidding put his hand in

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Speaker 1: the cookie jar, not evend It was it was the

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Speaker 1: most it was the most sort of primal sort of act.

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Speaker 1: I think I had seen him eating. You know. It

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Speaker 1: was just it was just he was hungry. It was

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Speaker 1: a it was a comfort food. I think there was.

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Speaker 1: It was it was the mix of needing the sweetness

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Speaker 1: and the calories and the emotional sort of fix that

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Speaker 1: comes with that. It was. It was just wild for

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Speaker 1: me to watch as an as an older brother of

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Speaker 1: an eight year old kid, and it made you realize

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Speaker 1: how quickly these things start. But you didn't even take

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Speaker 1: the wrappers for evidence. You left evidence. I mean you

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Speaker 1: didn't care about the consequences. You're like, forget the content sequences.

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Speaker 1: I need it now. I would leave the rappers right

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Speaker 1: with us. It made me probably had a lot to

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Speaker 1: do with Sunday becoming a journalist, because he's like, someone

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Speaker 1: should be going this. So let's start from the beginning.

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Speaker 1: You are ten years apart. You were born and raised

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Speaker 1: where Michigan, Michigan, for both of us, small town in Michigan.

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Speaker 1: I was born outside of Detroit. Parents were auto industry folks,

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Speaker 1: and Snea was born in Michigan as well. We had

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Speaker 1: moved a couple of times by the time Sania was born,

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Speaker 1: but a pretty small town as well, all the way,

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Speaker 1: always in southeastern Michigan. I was reading about your mom.

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Speaker 1: What an amazing woman. She's incredible. I mean, she really

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Speaker 1: is that person. I mean, I don't know what specifically

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Speaker 1: you read, but whatever you read, I can tell you

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Speaker 1: it's true. I mean, first female engineer for word. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: female story. The story leading up to that is like

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Speaker 1: really really incredible as well. I mean, you know, you're

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Speaker 1: talking about a little girl who is a refugee on

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Speaker 1: the border of India and Pakistan, who you know, basically

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Speaker 1: grew up with no running water, no electricity, and she

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Speaker 1: does something really remarkable, which is she teaches herself how

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Speaker 1: to read. And the first book that she reads from

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Speaker 1: cover to cover is the biography of Henry Ford. And

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Speaker 1: she decides after reading that book that somehow, some way,

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Speaker 1: she wants to become an engineer at Ford Motor Company.

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Speaker 1: And her parents like get completely behind this dream. They

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Speaker 1: save every penny they have, they get her somehow to America.

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Speaker 1: She gets an education, she went to Oklahoma State University.

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Speaker 1: The day after she graduates, she gets in her car,

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Speaker 1: she drives to Detroit and she basically finds a way

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Speaker 1: to get herself in front of a hiring manager. But

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Speaker 1: there's one big problem because this is the nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 1: and while Ford Motor Company is like in its heyday,

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Speaker 1: this is like Ford versus Ferrari had just happened, and

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Speaker 1: you know, the auto industry is doing really well. Ford

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Speaker 1: does not have a single woman working as an engineer.

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Speaker 1: And so the guy looks at her as this hiring manager,

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Speaker 1: and he says, we don't have any female engineers working here.

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Speaker 1: And you know, my mom is at this point in

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Speaker 1: time deflated. She gets up, she's she's picking up her purse,

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Speaker 1: she getting ready to walk out of the room, and

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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, she turns around. She looks

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Speaker 1: at the guy, and she says, if you don't hire me,

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Speaker 1: then you may never have the benefit of having a

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Speaker 1: woman work here as an engineer. And so this guy

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Speaker 1: ends up getting so inspired with this meeting with my mom.

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Speaker 1: The two of them advocate, and in August nineteen sixty seven,

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Speaker 1: she becomes Ford Motor Company's first female engineer. Oh that

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Speaker 1: gives me the hill. There's like a movie. This is

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Speaker 1: a story or her story, you know, I mean, what

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Speaker 1: a beautiful that's amazing. It was the hidden figures story

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Speaker 1: before hidden figures and right, you know there's and then

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Speaker 1: there's all the stuff that's baked into that, right. I

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Speaker 1: mean she was the first woman who attended to and

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Speaker 1: all male engineering college in India and there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of just sexism and stuff that you had to

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Speaker 1: endure doing that. And you know, it's funny. I had

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Speaker 1: this conversation with her the other day, like that's obviously

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Speaker 1: like the more subjective obstacles that you have to overcome.

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Speaker 1: And how do you, like, as a woman, you know,

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Speaker 1: how did you navigate that stuff? You know you did

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Speaker 1: you always like push back on everything. Did you take

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Speaker 1: great pride in the moment? Did you realize how significant

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Speaker 1: it was in the moment that you were the first

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Speaker 1: woman engineer? I mean I think about that all the time,

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Speaker 1: Like even historically now all the things that we're going through,

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Speaker 1: do we always know in the moment that something is

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Speaker 1: so significant? Like in nineteen eighteen, did they know that

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Speaker 1: one hundred years from now they would be talking about

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Speaker 1: what happened with that flu pandemic or was it just

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Speaker 1: something I think about that with Mom all the time.

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Speaker 1: I'll just tell you another thing. So now I was

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Speaker 1: just talking to Mom the other day. She told me

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Speaker 1: this quick story I'll tell you, which I think in

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Speaker 1: some ways encapsulates Mom. I don't know if you've even

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Speaker 1: heard it. My nanny, who's my mom's mom, you know,

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Speaker 1: they they I think when you're living the life of

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Speaker 1: a refugee, there's a lot of there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: faith that you need to have in things. You just

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Speaker 1: got to believe that things are going to get better

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Speaker 1: because you've got no proof that it will. And so

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Speaker 1: they believe in certain things like like palm reading. And

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Speaker 1: that was a big thing with my nanny, which was

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Speaker 1: surprising because she was a very objectively minded woman. But

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Speaker 1: she believed in palm reading. And then she wanted to

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Speaker 1: take my mom, who was a little kid at the time,

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Speaker 1: to get her palm read to determine whether or not

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Speaker 1: she was going to actually, you know, amount to something

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Speaker 1: and they should invest in her and all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine all based on your palm? Wow? So

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Speaker 1: my mom did not believe in that at all. Thought

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Speaker 1: it was hocus pocus, and but she read to find

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Speaker 1: out what they would be looking for, and she took

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Speaker 1: a piece of glass and cut the line in her

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Speaker 1: own palm that she knew would would reflect what the

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Speaker 1: palmist would look for. Now, obviously they would know that

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Speaker 1: that was a cut, but it was just like the

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Speaker 1: I don't believe in this at all, but you want

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Speaker 1: to play the game, I will cut my hand as

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Speaker 1: an eight or nine year old girl to make you

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Speaker 1: believe that I am that person, that that's kind of

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Speaker 1: who she that's kind of who she is. Had you

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Speaker 1: heard that before? SNeW I had not heard that story

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Speaker 1: so many, so many parts of the story that when

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Speaker 1: I had not heard, I know, I know. I've been

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Speaker 1: spending a lot of time talking to Mom lately, which

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Speaker 1: is weird because in the middle of a pandemic, I

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Speaker 1: I feel like in some ways we become a little

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Speaker 1: bit more connected. Strange. But we will do FaceTime calls,

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Speaker 1: and she loves to do it, and usually she wants

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Speaker 1: to talk to the girls, and the girls get quickly,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're they're they're very distractable, and so but

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Speaker 1: then I just sit there and I talked to her

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Speaker 1: and it's just been these kind of amazing conversations about nothing.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you heard this, but the story,

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Speaker 1: the story of how their parents met is pretty amazing.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to share that with us? So you

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Speaker 1: you give the story and I'll add in some of

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Speaker 1: my little details. Yeah, even beforehand, just typically though was

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Speaker 1: there was arranged marriage, but that wasn't the case for

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Speaker 1: them for what reason? Right, So that's part of it, okay,

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Speaker 1: And I'll just preface one thing say that the arrange

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Speaker 1: marriages still happen. I mean, that is still part of

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Speaker 1: the culture. And so we're now we're talking, you know,

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Speaker 1: six nineteen sixties. So yeah, so it kind of picks

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Speaker 1: up where we left off. Mom is now Ford Murder

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Speaker 1: Company's first female engineer. Oh, Kate, you'll appreciate this. Her

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Speaker 1: name at this point is Thementi Hingarani. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: a long name, Thementi Hingerani. And so one of the

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Speaker 1: one of the managers, said, you know, we might we

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Speaker 1: might want to shorten that, find a nickname of some sort,

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Speaker 1: and so she comes up with Ronnie as her name. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: I wow, Kate, Kate great. I saw that. I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, it means queen. And she she was like,

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Speaker 1: She's like, I love the idea of these white guys

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Speaker 1: calling me queen every day. Make me change my name.

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Speaker 1: You will call me queen for the rest of your career. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Ronnie mom is you know, she is living alone. She's

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Speaker 1: living in the Dearborn area. And again, nineteen sixties, not

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Speaker 1: not a lot of Indians people, you know, in our

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Speaker 1: community around but she had heard that in ann Arbor

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Speaker 1: there were more, there were more Indians hanging out, you know,

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Speaker 1: people went there for the University of Michigan. And so

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Speaker 1: she would, you know, every once in a while, get

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Speaker 1: in her car and drive from Dearborn ann Arbor, which

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Speaker 1: was maybe about a forty minute drive. And one day

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Speaker 1: she does that and her car breaks down right on

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Speaker 1: the outskirts of campus. And so she walks to a

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Speaker 1: local phone booth because her phone booths back in my

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Speaker 1: day and had one of those wires connecting an actual

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Speaker 1: phone book, these big sort of phone books. So she goes,

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Speaker 1: she goes, She flips to the a's and she thinks

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Speaker 1: of the most common Indian name in the a's that

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Speaker 1: she can think of, which is Agarwall and she calls

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Speaker 1: up the first a Wall in the phone book, and

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Speaker 1: guy answers the phone and she's like, Hi, is this

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Speaker 1: mister Wall And the guy says, no, he's out. This

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Speaker 1: is his roommate. The guy who answered the phone was

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Speaker 1: my father. Wow, isn't that amazing? And then he helped her, right,

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Speaker 1: he helped her with the car. He comes back, and

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Speaker 1: all kinds of things exactly exactly how did how did

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Speaker 1: their parents react to their coming together? Was it something

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Speaker 1: that was looked down upon because it wasn't arranged her?

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Speaker 1: Were they okay with it? It's a good question. Kate

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Speaker 1: at the detail and then and then we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: the detail. Because of this detail is cond of fine.

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Speaker 1: So one of the great joys that I've had recently,

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Speaker 1: I think, is I've been able to you know, I

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Speaker 1: did this finding your roots sort of thing with my parents,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we went back to Pakistan and India

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Speaker 1: and wanted to go back to where they met. This

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Speaker 1: this phone boots is Neil talk about which is no

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Speaker 1: longer there but the corner where And I also knew

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Speaker 1: where my dad lived at that point. And as it

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Speaker 1: turns out that my mom when he when she called him,

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Speaker 1: she happened to be calling him and he was in

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Speaker 1: the building right next to this phone booth. He asked

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Speaker 1: her where she was and she told him, and he

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Speaker 1: realized that was right outside. He was on the third

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Speaker 1: So he looks down and as he puts it, he

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Speaker 1: kind of, you know, check things out first, and then

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Speaker 1: decided he would go ahead. And that's but that is

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Speaker 1: so crazy. It is crazy. So where now, I'm just

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Speaker 1: I'm diverting just a little bit. But now where do

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Speaker 1: you Where do you go with something like that? Do

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Speaker 1: you believe in coincidences? Is there something bigger at play?

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Speaker 1: From a spiritual standpoint, from a energetic, universal, godly whatever

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Speaker 1: that means to you standpoint? You know, what do you

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I think, and I'm curious what

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Speaker 1: you think. Soil I mean, I'm I'm not a big

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Speaker 1: coincidence sort of guy. I you know, I guess maybe,

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Speaker 1: And that's not to you know, I just think as

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Speaker 1: someone who's a science guy, he's just been sitting in

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Speaker 1: science classes all his life. You know, we're spending all

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Speaker 1: of our time working at the fringes. You know, all

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Speaker 1: all the all the known knowledges in the middle. You

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Speaker 1: were the real learning happens from is when you when

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Speaker 1: you can explain the fringes of things, the things that

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Speaker 1: don't make perfect sense. So, you know, I mean the

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Speaker 1: fact that two Indians in the sixties would would somehow

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Speaker 1: connect when there were so few Indians and and uh

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Speaker 1: and then even get together, you know, in that way.

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Speaker 1: It's not doesn't make any less magical, but it's it's

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Speaker 1: not less coincidental. And I think that my my mom

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Speaker 1: and dad were from very different parts of Indian and

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Speaker 1: different backgrounds, so that part made it more challenging for them.

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Speaker 1: I think the magic also came in terms of how

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Speaker 1: they ultimately raised us. You know, when you were when

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Speaker 1: you were the you know, I was born in sixty nine.

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Speaker 1: When you're the oldest son of a of an Indian

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Speaker 1: family that got together that way, we were very unusual.

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Speaker 1: There weren't none of my friend Indian friends' parents. They

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Speaker 1: were all arranged marriages. So the idea that my parents

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Speaker 1: had a love marriage, as we call it, was the

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Speaker 1: arranged marriage or was the love marriage, Which is an

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Speaker 1: interesting juxtaposition, right, one insinuates that the other is not true.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of arranged marriages that are perfectly lovely marriages,

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Speaker 1: but the love marriage. So then all my friends would

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Speaker 1: be asking my parents for advice on their own relationships

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Speaker 1: as they were going through teenage life in early twenties

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Speaker 1: and deciding if they were going to get married. My

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Speaker 1: parents sort of became that person and for me too.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there was lots of guidance. So I think

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Speaker 1: how they how they informed a lot of people around

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Speaker 1: them based on their experience was pretty was pretty sure.

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Speaker 1: From the research that I've been doing and listening to you,

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Speaker 1: it seems like you are intrigued by causes of phenomena.

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Speaker 1: Is there a quantum element to your parents? Is there

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Speaker 1: a quantum entanglement or something there that, yeah, is science based.

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Speaker 1: We just don't know yet. I mean, are those things

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Speaker 1: that you're interested in? Oh? Absolutely no. And and I

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Speaker 1: don't you know, I think the idea of the continuous

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Speaker 1: exploration to try and explain things, you know, is is fun,

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Speaker 1: it's joyous, It's it's not you know. I don't think

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Speaker 1: you're doing it because you're questioning things or making them

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Speaker 1: any less significant. Yeah, I I do. I'm curious as

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Speaker 1: to why certain things happen for sure the way that

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Speaker 1: they do. And like I said a lot of things

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Speaker 1: you can sort of explain the things that you can't.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it means that there's not an explanation.

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Speaker 1: I just think it means you haven't found it yet.

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Speaker 1: And and maybe I would even take it a step

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Speaker 1: further and say, there's some things maybe you just never find,

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Speaker 1: you never explain, and and and I think I'm also

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Speaker 1: okay with that. I don't feel like it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: less important because I can't explain it, or because I

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Speaker 1: haven't discovered, you know, the the the sort of reasoning

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Speaker 1: mechanism behind it, and so there's you know, the absence

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Speaker 1: of evidence is not the evidence of absence, as they

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Speaker 1: say in science. But I think what I enjoy a

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Speaker 1: lot is the deep dive, you know, just going really

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Speaker 1: deep into something, just just becoming all consumed with it

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Speaker 1: and being comfortable with the idea that maybe I won't

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Speaker 1: I won't still fully be able to explain it in

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Speaker 1: the end. But we had a conversation, we actually had

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Speaker 1: a conversation about this maybe a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 1: Sonjay and me, and I think the way that you

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Speaker 1: articulated at the time, which stuck with me, was kind

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Speaker 1: of almost like, if we believe that all knowledge is

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Speaker 1: in a jar, and right now that jar is maybe

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Speaker 1: half full, so there are at least as many unknowns

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Speaker 1: out there as knowns, then then the question is do

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Speaker 1: we think that given enough time, you know, thousands upon

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Speaker 1: thousands of years of trying to find that information, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna we're going to one day fill the jar.

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Speaker 1: And if the it's almost it's almost as if if

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Speaker 1: you believe the answer that is know, then there's something else.

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Speaker 1: There's there's there's a there's a spiritual angle, there's something

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Speaker 1: else that you believe in if you believe it, given

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Speaker 1: infinite amount of time, with the right minds, we're still

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Speaker 1: not going to be able to fill the jar. Then

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Speaker 1: something else is that plate mm hmmm? What about I

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Speaker 1: love that? I love that too. It's a great analogys

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Speaker 1: infinite What about mind? Body? You know? What about someone

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Speaker 1: like a Joe despendsa you know who? Who? You know?

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Speaker 1: Where are you at with with that? Because we know

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Speaker 1: that obviously meditation, you know, can scientifically be proven to

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Speaker 1: sort of heal and do things to your brain. You know,

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Speaker 1: our brain. Our brain is is a muscle, isn't it

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Speaker 1: it's like a working mind, like we can actually work

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Speaker 1: that muscle, which then it speaks to the rest of

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Speaker 1: our body. You know, can do you think you can

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Speaker 1: heal yourself? Yeah? No, I I think I think you

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Speaker 1: you can and and I think that and I and

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Speaker 1: I listened to part of that podcast you guys did

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Speaker 1: as well on that, and it's it's really interesting. I've

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Speaker 1: just I've just finished writing a book about the brain

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Speaker 1: the mind body connection. I think is really it's very

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Speaker 1: interesting because I think for we've known this anecdotally to

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Speaker 1: be true for a long time, pribably since I started

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Speaker 1: medical school in the late eighties and then I started

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Speaker 1: my neurosurgery training in ninety three. We've known that. We've

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Speaker 1: known we knew patients who were more optimistic about their

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Speaker 1: recovery were going to do better. We couldn't have there

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Speaker 1: was no term for it. We knew that if I operated,

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Speaker 1: if I took a operated on a brain tumor of

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Speaker 1: somebody in the next day when I went to go

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Speaker 1: see that patient, if she was sitting up in bed

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Speaker 1: with her lipstick on already, that she was going to

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Speaker 1: recover more quickly because she she was optimistic about that.

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Speaker 1: We even knew little things like I stopped shaving hair

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Speaker 1: on patients when I did brain serve, and those patients

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Speaker 1: always did better because they just felt better. It was

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Speaker 1: nothing different about the operation. So this idea that how

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Speaker 1: you feel, how you approach it changes how you recover

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Speaker 1: in that case from a disease, but how you optimize

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Speaker 1: yourself continuously I think is true. I think what has

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Speaker 1: changed over the last several years now is that we

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Speaker 1: can show it mechanistically happening in the body. We can

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Speaker 1: show these neurotransmitters being released in certain ways in certain

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Speaker 1: parts of the brain. We can measure the impact of

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Speaker 1: that in other parts of the body in terms of

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Speaker 1: modulating blood pressure and heart rate, and even seeing the

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Speaker 1: speed at which arteries become hard arteriosclerosis, all of that.

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Speaker 1: It's really it's quite fascinating because it gives you this

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Speaker 1: sense that it's within your control to be able to

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Speaker 1: heal yourself. I think. I think the reason most scientists

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Speaker 1: are conservative when they talk about this stuff is because

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Speaker 1: anything that seems like it's minimizing a disease is something

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Speaker 1: that we want to be very mindful of, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean when it comes to mental illness, for example,

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Speaker 1: you know, this idea that it is within your own

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Speaker 1: mind to heal yourself is a very tenuous topic, right.

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Speaker 1: There are people who have legitimate neurotransmitter deficiencies and things

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Speaker 1: like that. Obviously a child who develops cancer. You know,

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Speaker 1: no one is suggesting that people can just kill themselves,

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Speaker 1: but they can certainly make a huge impact, far greater

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Speaker 1: than I think. You know, we realized even twenty thirty

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Speaker 1: years ago, and it's fascinating. It's a call it the

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Speaker 1: mind body connection, or just call it, you know, it's

429
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 1: it's the human sort of species that's able to do this.

430
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 1: The mind and body have no separation. We think of

431
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: it as separate, but there is no separation. Really. When

432
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: you think of it like that, it feels like we're

433
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: scratching the surface with this. I mean, it feels like

434
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 1: in one hundred years from now, you know, if we

435
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 1: can sort of hone in on this, and you know,

436
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: it could shift tremendously. You know. Yeah, we tend to

437
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 1: medicalize everything, you know, and I think it goes back

438
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 1: in some ways to the fact that if you can

439
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 1: measure it, it takes on added significance. Right, Why is

440
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 1: cholesterol so important for heart disease because we can measure it.

441
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 1: There's probably things, like Saneil was saying, that are far

442
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: more important, and we know that, you know, in my

443
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: parents are a perfect cohort. My dad has three brothers

444
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 1: who live in India. My dad lives in the States.

445
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 1: As Saneil mentioned, he had heart surgery when he was

446
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: in his late forties. His three brothers genetically pretty much

447
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: the same as him, did not, and now their diet

448
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: was different to some extent. But I'll think a lot

449
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 1: of it is just how they approach things. Overall. We

450
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: tend to medicalize things in the United States a great deal,

451
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 1: and over there just the lifestyle and everything ended up

452
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 1: making a big difference in terms of not having a

453
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: significant medical problem for basically their entire lives. That's you

454
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: see examples of that all over the place. No, Oliver,

455
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: do you meditate? I meditate and I medicate. It's true yet, yes,

456
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: so yes I do. Actually, in the last about month,

457
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 1: I have gotten back into it. I have been going

458
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: through anxiety, you know, some anxiety over this time I was.

459
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: I had a cute anxiety in my twenties, like hard

460
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: hitting eight months of not wanting to leave my house

461
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 1: but wanting to live a normal life and fighting through it,

462
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: but throwing up and couldn't breathe. I mean, it was

463
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: really gnarly. But in this last three, in this last

464
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 1: five six weeks, that didn't come back, but just this

465
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: overall anxious feeling, tightness in my throat, tightness in my chest.

466
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: You know, my brain starts to spiral a little bit.

467
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: The difference now is I've been through it, and I

468
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: know that I'm okay, you know, I know that there's

469
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: nothing medically wrong with me. So I started my meditations

470
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: again and the first one I did, I just first time,

471
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: I closed my eyes and just started bawling, crying, I

472
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: don't know, you know, And I just realized that I

473
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: hadn't gotten quiet with myself in a long long time

474
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 1: and it was necessary. And so I've definitely fixed myself.

475
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: I've shifted all of that through my meditation, and it's

476
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 1: almost fun to play with it, you know. I would

477
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: have these meditations where I would try to just melt

478
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: everything in my fifth I think your fifth chakra is

479
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: your throat chakra, and it's about expression. And for me,

480
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 1: expression was not an easy thing to do, being vulnerable,

481
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,959
Speaker 1: being able to say how I feel express love. You know,

482
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: it's been a difficult thing for me in my life,

483
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: and I'm able to physically feel it melt away through

484
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: my breath and it brought a big smile to my

485
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: face and I was like, Wow, it's powerful, it works.

486
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: I can do I can do this, you know. So, yes,

487
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: I do meditate and I do medicate. I am on

488
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: lexapro as well. Yeah, yeah, you know. There, I was

489
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: telling Kate about this yoga teacher training that I'm doing

490
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 1: right now, and there's so many people in this training

491
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: that are battling a lot of the same things, you know, anxiety, depression,

492
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: bipolar schizophrenia, that that you know, just swear by what

493
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: they've been able to achieve with meditation, you know what

494
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: that's brought to them, just the simple kind of coming

495
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: back to the breath. And I've kind of now, I

496
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: mean how I'm speaking as I'm some kind of yogi

497
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: I'm thirty days into this training. But what I thought

498
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: I am learning, well, what I am inspired. One of

499
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: the things that I realize is is like, now, I

500
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: thought yoga was all about getting into postures, getting into poses,

501
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,719
Speaker 1: Like that's what I was going to learn, And what

502
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: I've learned is something completely different than that. We don't use,

503
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 1: you know, our body to get into postures. We use

504
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: postures to get into our body to make ourselves feel something.

505
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: It's the difference between the aesthetic and the functional. Like

506
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: the aesthetic is how you want to look, but the

507
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 1: functional is how you want to feel, and ultimately it's

508
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: all about that. And that's the thing that I've learned

509
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: when with the breath, Like, one of the things that

510
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: this teacher I'm learning from right now has taught us

511
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 1: is that for every pose, what you're trying to do

512
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: is spend twenty percent of your time getting into your edge,

513
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: finding your edge, finding something that little point that's going

514
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: to make you feel just a little bit uncomfortable the feeling,

515
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: and then you spend the rest of that time the

516
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: other eighty percent softening around that edge. And that softening

517
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: is where you get growth. Right, You're pushing yourself to

518
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: a new point, but then finding a way to actually

519
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: breathe through that soften through that, that's where you start

520
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: to develop. It's an interesting, interesting metaphor and practice for

521
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: actually what's going on right now in the world. I

522
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: think we have a primal sort of reaction to things

523
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: all the time, but the idea that you let it

524
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: settle in and you're trusting your instincts, but you're letting

525
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: your subconscious mind sort of you know, reflect over this.

526
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that that's maybe in some ways

527
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: the ffinition of empathy. You can tell in conversations that

528
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: you have with people right away, I are pretty quickly

529
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: at least who is who is going through the motions

530
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: and who has exactly what you and Snula are describing, letting,

531
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: you know, letting the edges blur a little bit and

532
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: and really feeling like you're in that position. It's it's

533
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's it's been tough, I think for

534
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: for a lot of people too. And it's such a

535
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: busy news environment and things are moving so fast and

536
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: and and it does make you anxious. It makes me anxious.

537
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: As you are describing that, my throat was tightening up

538
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: a bit, Oliver. You know, it's just it's the same thing.

539
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: So how do you find the time to just let

540
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: those edges blur a bit. It's tough, but it's important.

541
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: It's a it's a tough it's a tough time to

542
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,719
Speaker 1: navigate as well, because you know, I think judgment is

543
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: something that is just natural that we we judge as

544
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: an instinct. In a way, I don't it's hard not

545
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: to sort of oh, he looks like this or she

546
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: looks like that, just in general. But we are in

547
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: a time now of sort of high intensity judgment, and

548
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: sometimes it makes people passive. I think it makes people

549
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: fearful sometimes to sort of say what they want to say,

550
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: you know, because if you say the wrong thing, then

551
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: we're living in this time of cancelation. You could be canceled,

552
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: you could be admonished, and your intentions weren't that but

553
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: you know, walking on eggshells. It's very true. I mean,

554
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: you know, we certainly see that in the in the

555
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: news business as well, like everything from the editorial decisions.

556
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: But I got to tell you though, So I have

557
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: three daughters, fourteen, thirteen, and eleven, and I was having

558
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: this conversation with my oldest daughter the other day about

559
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: this exact topic, and I can just you know, when

560
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: we say reflexive creature, the human beings are, I think

561
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: in part that means that we as human beings, lived

562
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: by being able to quickly recognize threats. We recognize threats

563
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: and we were able to, and so we are our

564
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: threat sort of meters are really tuned up. We saw

565
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: most things as threat. That's how we stayed alive evolved individuals.

566
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: If you're truly evolved individual I don't think you immediately

567
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: look at the world as a threat or non threat.

568
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: You know, you you you let you apply this, this

569
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: thinking to it, this logic, you know, this judgment, the

570
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: the the blurring of the edges like Sanio is describing,

571
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: letting that sort of be okay as opposed to binary

572
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: threat or no threat. And you know, I think even

573
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: when you look at xenophobia, you look at what's happening now,

574
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: you know it's it's primal reflexive, reactive creatures see the

575
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: world as threat or no threat. If you are evolved,

576
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: you're able to to to get beyond that reflexive part

577
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: of ourselves. And it's it's I think you're right. It's hard,

578
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: and you're worried that you could get judged because all

579
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,479
Speaker 1: of a sudden you may be the threat by the

580
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: way you said something or what exactly you said, even

581
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,719
Speaker 1: if that wasn't your intent. But I just don't know

582
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: how we move forward as a human species and sort

583
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: of in terms of tolerance for one another. If we

584
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: if we don't stop thinking of ourselves as our most

585
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: basal beings, you know, just just primal threat or no

586
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: threat beings, we have to be like the human species

587
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: did not succeed without each other. Everyone knows that it

588
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: was never about rugged individualism. It was about reciprocal altruism.

589
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: We succeeded because we took care of each other, and

590
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: strangely enough, it actually felt good to take care of

591
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: each other. Why would it feel good for me to

592
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: do something nice for you? That would make no sense

593
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: from a Darwinian standpoint, right, I should get mine right,

594
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,479
Speaker 1: or my families, And yet it does. If I do

595
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: something nice for you, it feels good that trait was

596
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: was selected for and preserved through human race, and that

597
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,719
Speaker 1: allowed us to succeed. And if we I think, if

598
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: we run to that as opposed to the threat versus

599
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: no threat, primal reflexive you know, side of our beast,

600
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: then I think we can we can move forward. But

601
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: God Man doesn't seem like it right now. Sikara, we

602
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,719
Speaker 1: love Sikara. We love this food program. You know, if

603
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: you're looking to change your diet, it's not about like

604
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,959
Speaker 1: restricting what you eat. It's about the kinds of foods

605
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: that you eat. It's prepared foods, organic, plant based, They

606
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: come to your house, they switch it up every week.

607
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: It also comes with more than just food. It has

608
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: supplements and teas and it really kind of supports your

609
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: whole body to boost results. Try the best selling metabolism superpowder.

610
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: It's an all natural remedy for bloating, weight gain, and fatigue,

611
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: which you know, I'm in my forties, I have all

612
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: of those things. But after, you know, after grinding Ciicara,

613
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: I can honestly say that it is coming down. I

614
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: mean it's clean eating. You know, it's wellness eating. It's

615
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: eating with a purpose, it's eating with intent. And right now,

616
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: Cicara is offering our listeners twenty percent off their first

617
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,760
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618
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,480
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619
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,880
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620
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:13,400
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621
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: So growing up you were for ten years, Sanjay, you

622
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 1: were an only child, right, and it's just you two,

623
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: It's right it's just us. I enjoyed your your your

624
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: arrival when you were an only child with your mom

625
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: and your dad. What what what was that like? Give

626
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 1: us a glimpse into your ten years, your decade alone.

627
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: By the way, that should be the title of maybe

628
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: one of your next books, My decade Alone. It was.

629
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: It was a you know, it was it was a

630
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 1: very formative time. I I don't know that I would

631
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 1: necessarily describe it as a happy time. I think it

632
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: was a very formative time. We were a you know,

633
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: Indian family living in a very small town in Michigan,

634
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: very very almost a little rural, very homogeneous. There was

635
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 1: nobody that looked like us. There was nobody that sounded

636
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: like us. Ate the kinds of foods that we did,

637
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: prayed to the same gods that we did anything. It

638
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,959
Speaker 1: was just totally different, you know, starting with your name,

639
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: you know, and and so I think there was always

640
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: a sense of wanting to fit in. That's what I

641
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: think I remember the most about my early life, you know,

642
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: just just wanting to my and and I think the

643
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: same was true for my parents to some extent, even

644
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: though they were very you know, grew up on the

645
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 1: other side of the world. They realized in order to succeed,

646
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: you have to fit in, and so fitting in became

647
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: sort of the the name of the game. And it

648
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: was it was, you know, it's it's all consuming in

649
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: a way. I had friends, you know, but a lot

650
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: of times I felt like I was the Indian friend,

651
00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: you know, I was the I was the additional friend

652
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: added to the group because I was Indian. It was

653
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: little almost and I'm not This isn't a SOB story

654
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: by any means, you know, because it's saying that it

655
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: wasn't not gonnasary happy doesn't mean it was said. It

656
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 1: just it wasn't defined by happiness. I think that you're

657
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: a bit of a peculiarity, you know, more than anything else.

658
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: So that was that was you know, up until what's

659
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: ten years old, is like fourth or fifth grade or

660
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: something like that. I think, do you remember the time

661
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: when you realize that, you know, when you were old

662
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: enough to sort of cognitively think, oh wow, I maybe

663
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: I'm different than everyone else. Yeah, I think so. I

664
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: mean I think it was it was fairly early, like

665
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: you know, first or second grade, and I think a

666
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: lot of times it was just everyone go around and

667
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: introduce their themselves, you know, and it was it was

668
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 1: everybody was, you know, Bob Bill, you know, Alan whatever,

669
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: and then my name and then it was the you know,

670
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: can say that again? Can you pronounce that again? How

671
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: do you say that? Butchering the name? You know, and

672
00:36:58,320 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 1: it just it was a source of like your face

673
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: flush every time you had to say your name. You know.

674
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,959
Speaker 1: It's like, I think the most basic thing, right, something

675
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: like that, change your name to Steve. Yeah, so that

676
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: was probably the I was, yes, Steve was gonna I'll

677
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: tell you why though. It was a good story. You

678
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,439
Speaker 1: you you made you You guys may be too young,

679
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,720
Speaker 1: but my favorite show on television at the time was

680
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 1: was The six Million Dollar Man, Colonel Lee, Major Steve

681
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: Austin and uh and Steve Austin was I mean he

682
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: was he was it and so and you know started

683
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 1: with an ass. Our names all start with an S.

684
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: So I had that box checked as a first or

685
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: second grader, and I thought that I just changed my

686
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: name to Steve. If I changed it, then that would

687
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: solve everything. And I talked to my mom about it,

688
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: and she, you know, wasn't thrilled with the idea, but

689
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: actually was fairly okay with it, and and said we

690
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 1: could do it. And and then I realized in retrospect,

691
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: she was just waiting for me to sort of come

692
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: to my own senses and realize that would be silly.

693
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:01,919
Speaker 1: That is my name, that is my identity. You don't

694
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,959
Speaker 1: just can't just change your identity, you know. Well, Kate,

695
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: Kate went through a phase where she decided to change

696
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: her name from Kate. It's still in remained Kate, but

697
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: she goes, it's not Kate with the K anymore, It's

698
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: Kate with a C. And I was like, okay, Gary,

699
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: it was Kate Gary, which was my full name, no

700
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: more how to say Garry. Yeah, it was okaything right,

701
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 1: So that yeah, But but I but I know, I uh,

702
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: it was it was interesting, you know, I mean, I

703
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: think it's going to be interesting to look back at

704
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,240
Speaker 1: some point and just say about all these these immigrant

705
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: families at that time. You know, they were among some

706
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: of the first immigrants. Really are a big wave of

707
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: immigrants in the sixties. What those lives were like, you know,

708
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: how people assimilated and you know, my parents did not

709
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: come to the United States because they were persecuted or

710
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 1: prosecuted in search of something. They came here just for

711
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 1: education and uh in a way of life, and so

712
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: there wasn't a galvanized force for drawing them all together.

713
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: And as a result, we just sort of felt it

714
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 1: was like a it was sort of a loose, a

715
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: looser sort of existence. We were just trying to make

716
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: our way I think in the world. My parents are

717
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,760
Speaker 1: incredible people, I mean incredibly hard working. They they everything

718
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: they did they did for us without without a question.

719
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: That was just how they were wired. They didn't think

720
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: about their own lives. They didn't we didn't take vacations.

721
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: They worked weekends. I mean it was and it wasn't

722
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 1: like they had to, but anytime they didn't work a weekend,

723
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: it was like, well, I'm not doing enough now for

724
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: my kids. I need to work the weekend even though

725
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: we're fine, because then I'm not doing enough for my kids,

726
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: you know. So that was that was sort of the

727
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 1: first first ten years of life. And was there was

728
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: there affection? I mean, was it a very loving, affectionate home. Yeah,

729
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: I would say it. I would say it was. If

730
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: you were to have visited at that time as a

731
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 1: friend of mine, you may not have perceived it as such.

732
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 1: But it was there when I when I started dating

733
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: my now wife, she joked around that, you know, my

734
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 1: dad and I would still shake hands every time we

735
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: see each other. You know, there's no hugs. We didn't

736
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: even and my mom and my mom's very affectionate, but

737
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 1: we didn't hug. It was not a hugging family. There

738
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: was no nothing like that. We called each other. I

739
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: mean I called them mom and dad. They called me

740
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: by my first name. There was no affectionate sort of

741
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: nicknames and things like that. But now they hug. They've

742
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: become huggers now, you know, like a lot. I mean

743
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 1: with the grandkids, I think, and my wife is like,

744
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: she just come on, bring it in. You know, you're hugging.

745
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: And so now it's changed as that's how my kids

746
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: will remember them. Did you ever feel though that you

747
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 1: wanted more love or more affection from them or was

748
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: that just what it was? It just felt like it

749
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: what it was. I didn't have a lot of context

750
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: for life. I didn't have a lot of friends, so

751
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 1: it wasn't like I was going to other people's houses

752
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: and saying, well, their parents hug how about you guys.

753
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 1: You know, I watched the six million dollar man. That

754
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: was basically my context for life outside of outside of school.

755
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: Steve doesn't hug Steve wasn't a hugger. I don't know

756
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: anything about the six million dollar man. Oh yeah, I

757
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 1: think it was just past your your time, because why

758
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: we're the same age. You're seventy nine? Ye yeah, wait

759
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: seventy are you eighty? I'm seventy nine. And what's interesting

760
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: is that a lot of this stuff that I probably

761
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: shouldn't know, I do know because of Sunday and the

762
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 1: other The other thing that's interesting about it is that

763
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,720
Speaker 1: when that happens from somebody who you kind of admire,

764
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 1: like you will with a brother who's ten years older

765
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 1: than you, that stuff kind of just sticks with you.

766
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: So when he moves on, I don't, so I'm still

767
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: kind of into all this. All this stuff, Like my

768
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: friends would get into my car when I was in

769
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: high school and I'd be playing eighties music because I

770
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: got me into eighties music. Like a friend would get

771
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 1: into my car. Instead of being like, dude, I love

772
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 1: this song, he'd be like, dude, my mom loves this song. Oh.

773
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: That basically means you you might have missed the best

774
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: era of music, which was the nineties. I did kind

775
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: of float by then because I was so I know

776
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: I took that away from him. Sorry about that. He

777
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: was in the nineties, he was in the night. What

778
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: was funny? What was funny? Is that Sunday So you

779
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: guys may not know this. Sunday when he was in

780
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: high school, formed an air band with an air band

781
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: like instruments, all instruments, not their guitar, but air drums everything. Wow,

782
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 1: and let me this is this? Is this? Is this

783
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: like an exclusive? Is this? So? There was? Was it

784
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: just a silent concert? So sore when they were in

785
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: the background? What did you so music? Sunday was actually

786
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 1: lead singer of this hand and and and there was

787
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 1: there was a family, right, there was a family. There

788
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: were there were three brothers and their last names were

789
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 1: Gupta as well and so soun Jay and this this

790
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: this family of three brothers formed a band. And get this,

791
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: this creative name of their of their band. They named

792
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: themselves the Guptas Wow and so and so and so.

793
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: Literally they would get together in the basement and they

794
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: would put on eighties music, which I still have playing.

795
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: I mean, actually, if you if you could see my

796
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: shirt here. I don't know if you could see pour

797
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: some sugar on me just like changed my whole life

798
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 1: and dance moves. But they would also do skits. Skits

799
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: were part of it too, like kind of skits to

800
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: kind of almost frame the whole thing, like Rock of eight.

801
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 1: I remember they did Rock of Ages and like there

802
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: was a skit before that. But anyway, like the thing

803
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 1: is is it should have been gooped into the third

804
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 1: power or maybe G three G four G four G four.

805
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,959
Speaker 1: There's always a reunion, so my mom my mom would

806
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: always make Sunday include me in these things. So I

807
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: was at actually asked to be the cameraman recording me.

808
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 1: It was all on video. Some of these recordings have

809
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: those I think I do. The thing is a video

810
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 1: camera was already on a tripod, so I didn't have

811
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: to do anything. But that was my role until one

812
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: until one time Sonjay brought me in and I got

813
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 1: to do Tom Sawyer by Rush that was and that

814
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: was where are these videos? And can we have them?

815
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,479
Speaker 1: And you cannot? And who was Neil Pert in that song?

816
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: Who was playing the drums? I think there was some

817
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: deep wasn't it jealous? Yeah? He was He's he was

818
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: with that really got into that air. I mean, you

819
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: were convinced talking about my body connection. That was That

820
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: was it. Do you remember Sonjay went Sneil came into

821
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 1: this world? Do you remember him coming home? Oh? Very much?

822
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 1: So that was ten uh and and I guess that

823
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 1: was nine. I and tend that year and and it

824
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: was it was really I mean, you know, went through

825
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: the whole you know, my mom was pregnant, that that

826
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 1: whole thing, and you know, just taking care of her

827
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 1: and being excited. And then when he came home. I remember,

828
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 1: I remember thinking that I was the most excited. That

829
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: other people weren't as excited as me, Like I'm sure

830
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: my mom and dad were thinking about the work they

831
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 1: now had to do. They were excited as well, Sneil.

832
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: I don't want you to take that the wrong way,

833
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 1: but they they. But I was like so excited. And

834
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: I had a brother, and I would, you know, I

835
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: every time in school people would always ask you, you know,

836
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 1: in addition to your name, how many siblings do you have?

837
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: And I was always Sonja, which nobody could pronounce, and

838
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: then zero, you know, siblings, and so that all got

839
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,760
Speaker 1: to change, and so it was it was really exciting,

840
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 1: and I feel like it was an inflection point. We

841
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: moved shortly after Saneil was born as well, to a

842
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: new neighborhood, and you know, I switched schools a couple

843
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: of times during that time. So I felt like it

844
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: was like Sanil's birth for me was a was a

845
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: point of real transformation. I think and I still think

846
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: of like, you know, I guess it's just happens with

847
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 1: younger siblings, but I still think of Sneil as very

848
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: much a little kid. And so everyone is measured by

849
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: are they older or younger than my brother. If they're

850
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 1: if they're my brother's age or younger, they're a kid.

851
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: If they're older, then they're you know, then they're a

852
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: full on adult. Right. I don't know when that changes,

853
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: It doesn't You actually called me the other day and

854
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: asked me, when does that change? This is like this

855
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 1: is like three weeks ago. I think. I just I

856
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 1: was brushing my teeth and I suddenly had this I

857
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: suddenly I had this thought, like I still think of

858
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: you as this little kid. So is that always just

859
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: how it is, you know, to my dying day, or

860
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: or like what what changes? When do we think of

861
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: ourselves as contemporaries and peers as opposed to I am

862
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: the ten year older brother. You know, and and what

863
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: did you You had a good answer. I can't know

864
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 1: what you said. I said. I don't know if it's

865
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: kind of change. I think kids probably have a lot

866
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: to do with it. I've got two girls on my

867
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: own now, so Sunday's got three, I've got two. My

868
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 1: parents have five granddaughters girl. Oh my god, lucky grandparents. Yeah. Wow.

869
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like I feel like Sunjay was

870
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,280
Speaker 1: you know, he was a he was a third parent,

871
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: and he was more than that, you know, he was

872
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: He was also a brother, he was a friend, he

873
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: was a mentor. It was all kind of rolled up

874
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: into one. So, you know, I think that that but

875
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 1: that that that hasn't really changed for me because of all,

876
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 1: you know, he's always sort of been this guiding kind

877
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: of figure for me. That was true when I was

878
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: four years old. It's true, it's true today. So that

879
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: part I don't think is going to change. It is.

880
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: It is strange. I remember when Sunjay had his first daughter,

881
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: saved his oldest his oldest daughter, and I remember him calling, well,

882
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 1: I was there, but he called me like the minute

883
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: he was he was born, it seemed like, and he

884
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: was like, you know, I'm I'm really thinking about you

885
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 1: right now, because I think that that kind of just

886
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,879
Speaker 1: transported him back to those days that we're talking about

887
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 1: right now, and I and it's it's it's not you know,

888
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: it's I remember him so well during that time, you know,

889
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: the age of because he left the house when I

890
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: was about seven years old, which means that really, if

891
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: I if I start to kind of really remember things

892
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: when I was like three four years old to seven,

893
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: that's not that's not much time. That's about three years,

894
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,879
Speaker 1: but it seems like forever. Like I have so many

895
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: memories of the two of us at the house together,

896
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: which in a lot of ways makes me think about

897
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 1: my role for my girl right now, my younger one

898
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 1: who's three years old. Right Like, sometimes I think it's

899
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: easy to dismiss this age because you kind of feel like, well,

900
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: they may not remember as well. But I think that

901
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: for me, it was, I mean, it was, it was.

902
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: It was so much a part of my childhood, so

903
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 1: so so so dramatic. Sounds like you were involved, you

904
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: were very involved in your little brother's life, right because

905
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: that can go either way. I mean, I guess you

906
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: could be like, I'm too old for you. Well, you

907
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: don't have anything in common. But you guys were kids.

908
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 1: I mean your parents were working, so Sanja, I would

909
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 1: assume that you had just by nature, took on a

910
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: very more paternal role. For yeah, I think so. I mean,

911
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:13,919
Speaker 1: you know, my parents did work, and they even worked

912
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 1: a lot of weekends, so a lot of times it

913
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: was just Sanela and I and you know, I mean,

914
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 1: it's funny now because you can't think of a ten

915
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 1: year old, I don't think like I wouldn't have looked

916
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: at my daughters and said, they're ten and now they

917
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 1: can take care of a baby, you know. But and

918
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: we had help, you know, from time to time there

919
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: would be sitters and things like that that would help.

920
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: But I was, you know a lot of times I

921
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: was primarily sort of caregiver. And I mean one of

922
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: the stories I love is that I took Sanil to

923
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: this little amusement park when you were just like a

924
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,879
Speaker 1: year old or so, and it was Boblo Island. It's

925
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: this little amusement park on this island in the Detroit River,

926
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 1: and it's it's cool it's not there anymore. But it

927
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 1: was a neat little place and we had to go

928
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: by bus and then we had to get on a

929
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 1: boat and take him. And I was eleven and he

930
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: was one. Just how we just how we did it.

931
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: I would just never let like the idea of like rider,

932
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 1: even at sixteen, taking Ronnie is like, no, it's not happening.

933
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,840
Speaker 1: I know it was crazy. Wow, but you know, sometimes

934
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: just out of necessity, you know, why don't you take him?

935
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 1: We should take Saniel to Boblain. I don't know why.

936
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: You know, he was he was baby, and I felt

937
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: like they'd be good thing, but like you take him,

938
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 1: like okay, you know, figure this out. And we made

939
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 1: it happen. So what were you guys like as kids?

940
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 1: Like what was your personality? Were you outgoing? Shy? Hmm?

941
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:41,280
Speaker 1: I think, well, I'm curious. This is a really good conversation.

942
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny doing this sort of conversation. We

943
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 1: don't typically have these conversations, right, I mean just I mean,

944
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 1: I think I think I was the shy one and

945
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: Iti it was definitely I think a lot more outgoing.

946
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't have friends really, So Neil, you

947
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 1: seem to have a lot of friends. You had an airband,

948
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: so you had some friends at my airband? Yes I

949
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: had or ye yeah it is fame, ye fame that

950
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: was not that that need to be destroyed. There's no fame.

951
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: Well there's why didn't you have friends? Like this seems

952
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 1: to be a theme. Well, I think part of it

953
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,240
Speaker 1: again is, you know, so even during the ten years,

954
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: a lot changed in Michigan. You know, there were no

955
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: my parents there. Their their friends were mostly Indians culturally,

956
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 1: you know, food wise, music, things they could share and

957
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 1: a lot of times they didn't have kids my age,

958
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: you know, so we would go to their house whatever

959
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 1: that would be our social thing. And and so I

960
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:38,800
Speaker 1: didn't have friends. And I and I think just living

961
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 1: in a in a a neighborhood where you're again the

962
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 1: only Indian family, I just didn't have a lot of

963
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: friends in the neighborhood as well. I had a couple,

964
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: but not I didn't have like a friend group by

965
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: any means. So now you seem to have a lot

966
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 1: of friends. You were definitely more outgoing. And I got

967
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: to say one thing as well, it's really interesting now

968
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,800
Speaker 1: being a dad because I see different personality traits in

969
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 1: my own kids, and and what's so funny to me?

970
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 1: And again I was having this conversation, is that how

971
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: do you succeed as a kid? Right? Like? What like

972
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: how do you think you're succeeding as a kid? Like?

973
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times it's the measurable things.

974
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 1: You know, I'm getting good grades, I'm involved in activities,

975
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,879
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. I think the idea of being

976
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 1: just a sweet, engaging, curious kid, because it's harder to measure.

977
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 1: You don't know, you don't always know what to do

978
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 1: with that. I think I was a bookish sort of kid,

979
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 1: and so it was a bookish kid as well, although

980
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: you know, I think he was. So it was always

981
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 1: just a really sweet, engaging kid, and I just saw

982
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 1: people respond to him differently than they responded to me.

983
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: I was. I was. I was shy, I was not

984
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 1: very outgoing, and I probably didn't smile as much even

985
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: if I was smiling on the inside. So people thought

986
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 1: you were surly. It wasn't that I was surly. If

987
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 1: I was interested in something, I would just sit there

988
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: and stare at it, and they would think I wasn't curious,

989
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 1: But I was, you know, So it was, it was

990
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: a lot of that. It was, it was I think

991
00:52:55,600 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 1: I was misunderstood. So funny any of the fact that

992
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: now you are like America's chief medical correspondent and like

993
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: bring everybody comfort. But I think you just said something

994
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 1: that is really really smart. Finally you've said something because

995
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 1: I deal with that with my kids as well. You know,

996
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 1: we we it's we live in this world of measurements, right,

997
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 1: it's how do you stack up? Right? How are you

998
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 1: in school? Do you have extracurriculars? Yeah? Why isn't happiness

999
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 1: a measure of one success? But that's such as doing

1000
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: such a disservice to all those kids, you know, just

1001
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,320
Speaker 1: because we can't measure it. And I think that school

1002
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 1: education needs to shift in a way to sort of

1003
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 1: take so much so much pressure and stresses on standardized

1004
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 1: testing and all of these markers. I mean, Sunday and

1005
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: I talk about this quite a bit community now. I

1006
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: mean I remember Sunday having friends in college that we

1007
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 1: that I would hang out with and we still hang

1008
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:58,879
Speaker 1: out with now. Like, I think one thing that him

1009
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:00,800
Speaker 1: and I have both done is we've we've the friends

1010
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 1: that we really you know, grew to like and liked

1011
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 1: us like we hung on to people like we We

1012
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: definitely formed our circle and made sure that those relationships

1013
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 1: stayed intact. And you know, Sanjan and I were talking

1014
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 1: about this because I was I just I just took

1015
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: a trip to Bhutan or if you, if you, Bhutan

1016
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: is the one country in the world that measures itself

1017
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,720
Speaker 1: based on gross national happiness, So based on the happiness

1018
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 1: of their people, and you know, gross domestic product and

1019
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 1: all the other measures that that you know, we we

1020
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 1: prioritize here in the United States are important, but they're

1021
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: not everything. They're part of all. They're part of a

1022
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: bigger hole. And and and so when I was there,

1023
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 1: I got a chance to spend time with the team

1024
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: that really goes out and does the surveys and actually

1025
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: figures out how to measure the happiness. And I just

1026
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 1: simply I asked them, you know, is there one question

1027
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 1: when you're going village to village, city to city. Is

1028
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:54,439
Speaker 1: there one question that you can ask that that will

1029
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: give you a pretty good sense of how happy someone

1030
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: really is without having them fill out this whole survey.

1031
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:04,240
Speaker 1: Just one question. And they said, yeah, And the question

1032
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 1: is if you were in trouble today, do you know

1033
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 1: that there would be people who could come to your

1034
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: side without without any hesitation, with one certainty, do you

1035
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,800
Speaker 1: have those people? And if the answer to that is yes,

1036
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: like you feel that, then your likelihood of being happier

1037
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: is much much higher. But there's there's a there's a

1038
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,439
Speaker 1: part there's a part two to that as well, which

1039
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: is whose list are you on? Are there people out

1040
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 1: there who know without a doubt that you would be

1041
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 1: there by their side if they needed you, and they

1042
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 1: actually feel that That second part is even more important

1043
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 1: than the first. Wow, that's very cool to be on

1044
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 1: someone's nine to one one list. Yes, I think I'm

1045
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 1: on a lot of people's nine one one list. I

1046
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: don't know if I can think of that many people

1047
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 1: that I would call, though, really I'll call you. But

1048
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 1: does brother? I think siblings count. Do you feel that

1049
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:04,320
Speaker 1: that Sanja and how close you guys were at during

1050
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 1: that brief time that Sanjay was home, that it really

1051
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: informed who you are now? Yeah? I do. I mean,

1052
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: I think it gets to a lot of the stuff

1053
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 1: that Sunday's talking about. I mean, I think that the

1054
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:21,760
Speaker 1: warmth in the in the house wasn't always you know, visible,

1055
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 1: it was there, but it wasn't always visible. And I

1056
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:27,839
Speaker 1: think Sunjay made it a point to want to keep

1057
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: things light for me. He wanted to add that for me.

1058
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 1: So no matter how serious things were, you know, he

1059
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 1: always brought the lightness. Sometimes he brought it in ways

1060
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 1: that like have been traumatic for me. Like he maybe

1061
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 1: watch that Michael Jackson thriller video when I was like

1062
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:49,279
Speaker 1: four years old, Oh that's nothing. Oliver used to make

1063
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:53,439
Speaker 1: me watch like nightmroun Elms stream. He really went there.

1064
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 1: That's where I see went, all right, you are messed

1065
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 1: up now, Yeah, I agree. Yeah, so I I Sunday.

1066
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 1: Sunday kept this lightness. So I think I think that

1067
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:09,839
Speaker 1: that for me has been I mean so so important, right,

1068
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:12,919
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, no matter how serious things get,

1069
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 1: like knowing that there's some levity in the situation that

1070
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: you can find. I think that's like that that's a

1071
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 1: life skill any and he instilled that me. It's such

1072
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 1: a such an early agent, by the way, like he's

1073
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 1: such a great example of that, Like he still does that.

1074
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 1: I mean, imagine kind of what the past two months

1075
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: have been like for Sunday. It's it's but we're but

1076
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 1: we're still like texting every day or calling each other

1077
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 1: every day, and the conversations always have like a certain

1078
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: we always make sure there's a certain level of lightness

1079
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 1: to it. No matter what, no matter what's happening in

1080
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 1: the world, we find a way to make that happen

1081
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: because we know it's important. It is Sanjay, you got

1082
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: you got accepted to as an early app right at

1083
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 1: sixteen years old to a medical program. Yep. And so

1084
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 1: did you leave high school go right into medical school?

1085
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 1: Basically kind of you're accepted into medical school right away.

1086
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 1: You have to do two years of college, so you

1087
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 1: need to be at least eighteen to start medical school.

1088
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: So I was I did that time, you know, the

1089
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: first couple It was at Michigan University of Michigan, And yeah,

1090
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: it sort of it sort of set me on my way.

1091
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 1: You know, you had to make the decision pretty early

1092
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 1: that you wanted to be a doctor, which is a

1093
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 1: tough decision to make in retrospect. You know, you got

1094
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 1: to make that decision at fifteen years old, and you're

1095
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 1: making a life decision. That's it's crazy. Again. I have

1096
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: a daughter who's fourteen. I don't think she could make

1097
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 1: that decision next year, and she shouldn't. Frankly, did you know, though,

1098
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 1: I mean, were you sure? You No, I wasn't sure.

1099
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: I think sometimes it's kind of like you just you

1100
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 1: just do it, and then you sort of see. I mean,

1101
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 1: you'd like to think everything in life is well planned out,

1102
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 1: but you know, as I'm now, I'm fifty, and I

1103
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 1: realize that most things aren't. You put yourself into certain

1104
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: situations and you think there's things about this that I like.

1105
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 1: I have certain attributes that I think, you know, may

1106
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: serve me well in these situations. I don't know exactly

1107
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 1: what they are, but you know, I like science. My grandfather,

1108
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 1: my mom's father, had a stroke when when we were

1109
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 1: pretty young. I don't even know if you remembers, you know,

1110
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 1: I guess you were very young, I mean five or

1111
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 1: six years old. But nobody in my family was a doctor,

1112
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 1: and I spent more time in the hospital than with him,

1113
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: sort of getting to spend time with him and talking

1114
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:34,440
Speaker 1: to his doctors and stuff, and I think that's what

1115
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 1: sort of set me on my way. But it wasn't.

1116
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: There wasn't some some big, drawn out sort of thinking process.

1117
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 1: You just do it sort of just a leap of

1118
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 1: faith a little bit, and it was a good program

1119
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 1: and it would save two years of tuition. And my

1120
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: dad loved that. And you know, I mean the practicalities

1121
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 1: of life. And I was already accepted to med school,

1122
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 1: so I wouldn't have to go and take the MCAT exam.

1123
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: You know, it was just it was the logic of

1124
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 1: it more than the emotion of it. What would you

1125
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: parents have said, if you're like mom, dad, I want

1126
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 1: to go to Hollywood and I want to be an

1127
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 1: out how they very careful how I answer this? My

1128
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:15,439
Speaker 1: dad would not have liked it. I'll be honest with you.

1129
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 1: But week oh yeah, you got you gotta, you gotta,

1130
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 1: you gotta. Well to answer your question, my mom my, Mom,

1131
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: I think I think the idea, I think the idea

1132
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 1: of being a dreamer extends to all parts of your life.

1133
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: You know it the dream is is the currency at

1134
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 1: that point, it doesn't even hardly matter to some extent

1135
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 1: what the outcome is is. It's the dreaming, you know,

1136
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 1: Like I I I again with my own kids now.

1137
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 1: I keep talking about our own kids because it defines

1138
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 1: our lives now. But what have I given them? I've

1139
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 1: given them the luxury to dream. That's it, you know,

1140
01:00:56,920 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 1: you talk about education. There's this great cartoon and it's

1141
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 1: got a monkey, it's got an elephant, it's got a

1142
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:04,959
Speaker 1: fish in a bowl, and it's got this guy sitting

1143
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 1: in front of all of them, and it says, this

1144
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 1: is a very simple intelligence test. All you have to

1145
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 1: do is climb that tree over there, right, monkey, elephant,

1146
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 1: and fishing a bowl. Now, fish and a bowl will

1147
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 1: obviously fail that test, but the fish in the bowl

1148
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 1: would be amazing at something else. The right person in

1149
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 1: the right seat on the right bus, Like, how do

1150
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 1: you like I've given my kids the luxury to find

1151
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:28,440
Speaker 1: the right seat on the right bus. That's what I've done. So,

1152
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 1: going back to your question, if I if I said

1153
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 1: I really wanted to go to Hollywood, my mom would

1154
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: have totally supported. My dad would not have paid for it.

1155
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 1: He would have cut me off financially, so I would

1156
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 1: have suffered for that. Exactly. Well, you made the right choice.

1157
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 1: I don't know. By the way, you essentially are a

1158
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 1: performer in the in the idea that well you have no, no, no,

1159
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 1: just hear me out for five seconds, okay, all every all,

1160
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 1: all you guys are because you have to go say

1161
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 1: the same thing over and over again within an hour

1162
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 1: and have conviction, make it sound like it's the first

1163
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: time you've said it. And that's exactly what we have

1164
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 1: to do. Take after take, you know what I mean,

1165
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: Like I never thought of it that way. Now that

1166
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 1: you've said it, That's all I'm going to think about

1167
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 1: each time I go. I gotta bury it up. Oliver's

1168
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 1: watching God, I'm saying the same thing. Yes, you're a

1169
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 1: great actor. My mom would be so proud. My dad

1170
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't believe it. You know. I will tell you, Rebecca,

1171
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 1: my wife actually wrote this the other day. She wrote

1172
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:37,720
Speaker 1: in a Facebook post, and it was it was interesting

1173
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 1: because she she will write things on Facebook posts again

1174
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 1: that she would never tell me directly. It's it's weird

1175
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 1: a little bit. Maybe sometimes it's less, I don't know,

1176
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:50,200
Speaker 1: not not that I'm intimidating by any means. I'm just

1177
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: saying that sometimes you're more candid and something. And and

1178
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 1: it was this Maya Angelou quote and it was basically

1179
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 1: the quote where you say people don't always remember what

1180
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 1: you say, but they remember how you made them feel.

1181
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:05,480
Speaker 1: And she was talking about this time in our history

1182
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:09,960
Speaker 1: through this pandemic and things like that. I know, I

1183
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 1: know my content. You know. I wake up at four

1184
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 1: thirty every morning. I've been waking up at four thirty

1185
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 1: every morning basically since the beginning of the year. And

1186
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 1: I work all day. I work till eleven o'clock at night.

1187
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 1: That has been my life for the last several months.

1188
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 1: But as a result, I'm fully immersed. I know everything

1189
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:32,120
Speaker 1: about this virus. I know everything about the vaccine trials,

1190
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:35,520
Speaker 1: the therapies. I talk to sources in China every day,

1191
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 1: in Taiwan, you know, and at the NIH. But how

1192
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 1: you say it, I think to your point, I think

1193
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 1: ends up almost being the thing where I have to

1194
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time because some of it is

1195
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 1: frightening and scary. And I don't want to be not truthful.

1196
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: I want to be honest. But the inflection point between

1197
01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 1: hope and honesty maybe that's where performance lies in this regard.

1198
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:03,120
Speaker 1: I'm never going to sacrifice honesty, but can I do

1199
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 1: it in a way that's hopeful, you know? And maybe

1200
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 1: it's the way you say something. Maybe it's it's the

1201
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:12,400
Speaker 1: alult in your in your voice, you know. Maybe it's

1202
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 1: how fast you're saying something if you're not trying to

1203
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 1: make it sound urgent and emergent. You know, it's also

1204
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:21,920
Speaker 1: as a patient of many of doctors, you know, I

1205
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 1: guess we would call it the doctor's bedside manner, right,

1206
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 1: you know, exact, which which says a lot for you know,

1207
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 1: and I think for a lot of patients and people

1208
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 1: who are looking to especially caregivers and doctors for hope

1209
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:41,840
Speaker 1: in their diagnosis, that a bedside manner probably would go

1210
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 1: a long way for someone's sense of safety. And Oh,

1211
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:48,040
Speaker 1: I think that's so smart, and I think that is

1212
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 1: there's more importance than there's it's so important to create

1213
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 1: that for the audience. I mean, I think even Fauci,

1214
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 1: he sort of gets up there and you just feel like, oh,

1215
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 1: like I kind of want to hang out. I trust you.

1216
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 1: He's like, look, I don't know what's gonna happens that

1217
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, wow, I sort of I believe you.

1218
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 1: And the way you're speaking to me is if like

1219
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: we're sort of friends, and you know there's a camaraderie there.

1220
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 1: You know, you're he's a part of it in a sense,

1221
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 1: you know. I think trust is such a such a

1222
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 1: commodity nowadays, and it's almost jarring when you when you

1223
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 1: are convinced someone as authentic. It's so rare seemingly nowadays

1224
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 1: that it's almost jarring when you look at somebody and

1225
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:36,640
Speaker 1: you just say, that guy is authentic. I mean, it's

1226
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 1: it shouldn't be that way, but it is. And I think,

1227
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:41,440
Speaker 1: you know, you're right. Fauci is that guy, and it's

1228
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 1: a really tough time. So many pressures on him. The

1229
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 1: the the the collision points right now between science and

1230
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:53,919
Speaker 1: politics are unlike anything I've ever seen. And I'm talking

1231
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 1: about anywhere in the world. Really, you know, I cover

1232
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 1: stories all over the world. It's it's it's really it's

1233
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 1: really challenged. I think for someone like a Fauci too.

1234
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 1: I mean I talked to him on a regular basis.

1235
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 1: I think he has the hardest job in the world

1236
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 1: in some ways. You know, I know this isn't what

1237
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:12,000
Speaker 1: you wanted to talk about, but South Korea they've had

1238
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 1: fewer than three hundred deaths. Their first patient was diagnosed

1239
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 1: on the same day our first patient was. We've had

1240
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 1: one hundred and two thousand people who've died. Yes, they

1241
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 1: are one seventh the size, so multiply at times seven

1242
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 1: death count is in the hundreds, not the thousands, not

1243
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,919
Speaker 1: the hundreds of thousands. You know, it's still they didn't

1244
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:33,400
Speaker 1: have a magic pill, they had no vaccine. That the

1245
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 1: same things we did. And so my point is, you know,

1246
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 1: everyone's gonna do the post mortem on this, but this

1247
01:06:40,120 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 1: did reading about that in Vietnam as well. Yeah Vietnam lost. Yeah,

1248
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: I don't. It's really low death counts, I know, and

1249
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:52,919
Speaker 1: basic just public health principles. They used the World Health

1250
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:56,840
Speaker 1: Organization tests. They identified people very quickly, isolated them. Never

1251
01:06:56,880 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 1: got this into exponential growth like happened here. So everything

1252
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:06,360
Speaker 1: anyway we could have done correct absolutely, and we were

1253
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:08,520
Speaker 1: the world leaders in that stuff. I mean we we

1254
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 1: are the we eradicated smallpox, We're on the verge of

1255
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:14,959
Speaker 1: eradicating polio. We came up with some of the most

1256
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 1: effective vaccines anywhere in the world. Yeah, we we. Other

1257
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 1: other organizations in other countries call their organizations the CDC

1258
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 1: in deference to our CDC. We you know, we that

1259
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:30,840
Speaker 1: was our that was our bread and butter. Really in

1260
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:33,720
Speaker 1: this country, you know, guys like Larry Brilliant, who who

1261
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 1: is still alive and you know, talks about things all day.

1262
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 1: He eradicated smallpox. He eradicated a disease. You know, nobody

1263
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 1: gets to say that, and and and they knew how

1264
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 1: to do this even even you know, before even anticipating

1265
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 1: that there wouldn't be a vaccine available for some time.

1266
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:54,000
Speaker 1: So it's it's it's it's tough. You know. I know

1267
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:56,960
Speaker 1: people who've died of this disease. Uh, and it's very

1268
01:07:57,040 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 1: tough to go out there and say, you know, their

1269
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:02,080
Speaker 1: deaths were preventable. Doesn't make the families feel any better,

1270
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 1: that's for sure. It makes them feel worse. But you know,

1271
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 1: there's gonna be other waves to this, and I'm sure

1272
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:11,200
Speaker 1: Vivek talked about this as well, So hopefully we'll learn,

1273
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:14,320
Speaker 1: you know, some of these things going forward. We're gonna

1274
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:16,600
Speaker 1: have to apply these lessons right away. It's not like

1275
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 1: this one hundred years from now. We need to apply

1276
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:21,720
Speaker 1: these in the fall, like you maybe in a couple

1277
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:24,719
Speaker 1: of months well, because there's going to be a second wave.

1278
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:29,760
Speaker 1: The virus is still out there. Fauci is so good

1279
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:32,479
Speaker 1: at what he does because he does this thing. And

1280
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 1: I told him this flat out. I said, you have

1281
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 1: this amazing ability to sort of slow roll the country

1282
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 1: into things you know, we'll do a fifteen day pause,

1283
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 1: we'll see how things go. It was never going to

1284
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 1: be a fifteen day pause. He knew at that point

1285
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:46,679
Speaker 1: this was going to be months of having to slow

1286
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:49,760
Speaker 1: the country down. But you can't say that. And then

1287
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:51,800
Speaker 1: you know, we'll have a vaccine, you know, in twelve

1288
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 1: to eighteen months. We don't know. Maybe that's true, but

1289
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 1: he has this way of slow rolling things. So yes,

1290
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:01,960
Speaker 1: if he told you maybe they're a second wave, there's

1291
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:04,760
Speaker 1: going to be a second wave. Has Sanjay always been

1292
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 1: a person who was interested in like a little bit

1293
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:12,040
Speaker 1: of everything, you know, to be to go? He goes

1294
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 1: becomes a doctor, then he then he becomes a journalist

1295
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:17,600
Speaker 1: and now you know, you have a brother that's like

1296
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:22,839
Speaker 1: in Iraq and then he's in you know, covering you Bola,

1297
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 1: and then he's in Puerto Rico and all over the world,

1298
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:30,080
Speaker 1: putting himselves in dangerous you know, literally a front You

1299
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:33,479
Speaker 1: are a frontline journalist, right and with all that making

1300
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 1: time for the airband, which is that's gonna be the headline?

1301
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:42,800
Speaker 1: So thank you very much. No, But but I mean,

1302
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:46,040
Speaker 1: have you was was he always like that as a kid?

1303
01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 1: Now you're right, I mean Sunday is always the guy

1304
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 1: who's running. As people are running away from the fire,

1305
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 1: Sunday's running into the fire. And that was true New

1306
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 1: Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, earthquake, Haiti, Africa during the Bola

1307
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:05,800
Speaker 1: Like and I think that, uh yeah, I think he's

1308
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:07,759
Speaker 1: always kind of pen that way. I mean, he's always

1309
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:13,120
Speaker 1: been He's always been someone who is curious and uh

1310
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 1: interested and wants to wants to serve, wants to wants

1311
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 1: to be useful. You know. One of the one of

1312
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:20,640
Speaker 1: the pieces of advice that Sunday gave me, which is

1313
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 1: kind of related to this, is like, you always want

1314
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:26,000
Speaker 1: to be running towards something and not away from something.

1315
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:29,679
Speaker 1: I mean, and you know, I think in the context

1316
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:32,080
Speaker 1: that he gave that his career advice, you know, because

1317
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:33,640
Speaker 1: I was I was in a job I didn't like

1318
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:34,840
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know, think I'm going to go

1319
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:37,719
Speaker 1: do something else, and he's like, cool, go do something else,

1320
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 1: but but figure out what it is that you want

1321
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 1: to go do and then go do that. Run towards

1322
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:44,599
Speaker 1: something rather than sort of saying I hate this job

1323
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 1: and I'm going to run away from it. And I

1324
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:49,360
Speaker 1: think that that's kind of you know how I how

1325
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:51,800
Speaker 1: I've seen Sunday sort of live his career as well.

1326
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 1: Life and career is is always kind of being, you know,

1327
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 1: willing to run towards something, always always feeling like even

1328
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 1: if people are running away from it, I'll run towards it.

1329
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:05,840
Speaker 1: That's it's relevant. That's relevant advice right now in these

1330
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 1: last in this last eight nine days. By the way,

1331
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:11,599
Speaker 1: you know, it's not easy to run towards the burning building,

1332
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 1: but you know it's it's a necessity at this point,

1333
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 1: even if it's uncomfortable and you know, you might get

1334
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:20,719
Speaker 1: burned a little bit here and there, but it's important

1335
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 1: to run towards the problem. And I'm learning that right now,

1336
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:26,839
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, I'm going through these motions

1337
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 1: of man, what do I do? How do I do?

1338
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:34,080
Speaker 1: You know, I I need to move forward and not backwards.

1339
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 1: It's not time to retreat. And I've never been someone

1340
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:40,240
Speaker 1: honestly to run forward. I kind of hang out in

1341
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 1: my spot and watch things go by, like that's my nature.

1342
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:46,200
Speaker 1: Literally literally, I've watched them do that many times. I

1343
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 1: watched I've watched my career go by. I've watched no

1344
01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:55,480
Speaker 1: but you know, it's it's rele it's a relevant it's irrelevant,

1345
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:58,599
Speaker 1: that's relevant information right now. It's a great, great sort

1346
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:00,400
Speaker 1: of thing. I mean, And also to Neil, I mean,

1347
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 1: I'm just going to put myself in your shoes for

1348
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:05,080
Speaker 1: a second. We're ten years older, which is a significant

1349
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 1: amount of time to be older and doing all of

1350
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 1: these really like amazing, interesting, selfless things. In my mind,

1351
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:16,599
Speaker 1: I would wonder if that would affect how you would

1352
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:18,680
Speaker 1: look at your future, Like what am I going to do?

1353
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:21,559
Speaker 1: Am I going to become a like you know? And

1354
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 1: interestingly enough you become I mean what you're you were called?

1355
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:31,880
Speaker 1: Like what the great young Innovator? What was the title of?

1356
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:35,080
Speaker 1: Like this will always stay with you forever? The world's

1357
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:41,360
Speaker 1: sexiest innovator, the new phase of innovation. Look, I think

1358
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 1: I think that if you ever want to ask yourself

1359
01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:46,720
Speaker 1: the question like what the hell am I doing with

1360
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:52,840
Speaker 1: my life? Right? Like have exactly, It's it's it's like

1361
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 1: you're always I'm always asking myself that question. But at

1362
01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 1: the same time, like he is, he is the guide.

1363
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:01,599
Speaker 1: He prompts me to ask myself that question, and then

1364
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:04,880
Speaker 1: he guides me to the answer. So it's this, it's

1365
01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:07,640
Speaker 1: this sort of this push and pull, but it is funny, Like,

1366
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:11,599
Speaker 1: you know, twenty sixteen, after the presidential election, I moved

1367
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:15,640
Speaker 1: back to Michigan to run for congress and and I

1368
01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:18,200
Speaker 1: moved back here because I felt like, you know, our

1369
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 1: community where a Sunday and I grew up, was one

1370
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:23,720
Speaker 1: of the communities that decided to flip from blue to

1371
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:26,760
Speaker 1: red that year, and I really wanted to kind of

1372
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:30,840
Speaker 1: just run run, follow my brother's advice, run towards the problem,

1373
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:33,000
Speaker 1: figure out what I could do, and ultimately that ended

1374
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:36,439
Speaker 1: up being me running for office. And it's funny because

1375
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:39,840
Speaker 1: it was the first time that you know, in my

1376
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:42,760
Speaker 1: own community, in this congressional district, where I'd walk around

1377
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:46,840
Speaker 1: and people would would would recognize me when I wasn't

1378
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:49,320
Speaker 1: walking with Sunday. When I walking with Sunday, They're coming

1379
01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:50,639
Speaker 1: up to us all the time. This is the first

1380
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:53,040
Speaker 1: time people come up to me and you know, like

1381
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:56,439
Speaker 1: asking for like, you know, photo or something like that. So,

1382
01:13:56,600 --> 01:13:59,559
Speaker 1: you know, I still remember the first time it happened.

1383
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:01,680
Speaker 1: This guy comes up and he says, hey, can I

1384
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:04,960
Speaker 1: can I get a selfie? And I said, yeah, I

1385
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:07,960
Speaker 1: mean again used to this with Sunday, not used to

1386
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:11,320
Speaker 1: this alone, and the guy says, yells to his buddy

1387
01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:14,160
Speaker 1: before he takes the shot. He says, Hey, Brian, come

1388
01:14:14,160 --> 01:14:18,599
Speaker 1: into here, get in this photo with doctor Sanjay Gupta's brother. Oh, well,

1389
01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:22,120
Speaker 1: welcome to my world, man, welcome to my world. I'm

1390
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:25,320
Speaker 1: kate brother. Yeah, Oliver, I think you and I you

1391
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:29,920
Speaker 1: and I start her own podcast. We should siblings of

1392
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:33,439
Speaker 1: bro words in that one that would be sibling rivalry

1393
01:14:33,479 --> 01:14:40,000
Speaker 1: straight out. Yeah. But you said something really interesting, Saneil,

1394
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:42,360
Speaker 1: which I I think is was a really good point

1395
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:44,880
Speaker 1: in the tech world, in the business world, like you're

1396
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:48,680
Speaker 1: in consumer goods, right, You're in consumerism, and there's a

1397
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 1: lot of really brilliant business minds that can that can

1398
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:54,640
Speaker 1: help in in the world and in the in the

1399
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:58,760
Speaker 1: whether it be the healthcare community or in politics or

1400
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:02,080
Speaker 1: that actually are looking at how do we how do

1401
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:04,840
Speaker 1: we talk to the consumer, how do we talk to

1402
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:09,280
Speaker 1: the patient or the political how do we how do

1403
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 1: we speak to the to the people? Kate, and I

1404
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:14,000
Speaker 1: think you talk about this a lot too, and and

1405
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:16,679
Speaker 1: you know, maybe it's an overused word sometimes, but empathy

1406
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:20,240
Speaker 1: is I think you know the way to do it

1407
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:22,719
Speaker 1: without having to manipulate anything. I mean, it's just it's

1408
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:28,040
Speaker 1: it's amazing, you know, how how under how how much

1409
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:29,880
Speaker 1: of a lack of empathy there can be, I think,

1410
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:33,240
Speaker 1: both in the consumer space and politics everything even just

1411
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:35,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I was, I was, I was looking up

1412
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:38,679
Speaker 1: the definition of empathy and comparing it to the definition

1413
01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:41,000
Speaker 1: of compassion the other day because I was really want

1414
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:43,479
Speaker 1: to understand sort of the nuance between the two and

1415
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:46,400
Speaker 1: and they're very different, right, I mean, compassion is is

1416
01:15:46,439 --> 01:15:49,080
Speaker 1: sort of you know, you get a feeling of you know,

1417
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:51,639
Speaker 1: I'm really sorry that that happened to you, and you're

1418
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:53,679
Speaker 1: sort of there for that person, and that's really important.

1419
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:57,840
Speaker 1: But empathy is simply being able to describe what happened

1420
01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:00,080
Speaker 1: to you in a way that you say, yeah, that

1421
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:03,000
Speaker 1: is exactly what happened to me, right, So just being

1422
01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:05,679
Speaker 1: able to put yourself in somebody else's shoes and say, look,

1423
01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:07,400
Speaker 1: this is this is what I think you're going through

1424
01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:10,280
Speaker 1: right now, this is what I'm hearing, and having that

1425
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:12,919
Speaker 1: person be like, yeah, you got it is an incredibly

1426
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:18,360
Speaker 1: powerful and very very underutilized thing. Like it's almost unbelievable

1427
01:16:18,400 --> 01:16:21,360
Speaker 1: how powerful it is, and yet how rarely we see

1428
01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:26,320
Speaker 1: it being, you know, put into use. So what was

1429
01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 1: it like when he when sanj left. Do you remember that?

1430
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:32,720
Speaker 1: Was it lonely? Was it empty? Were you excited? It's

1431
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:35,720
Speaker 1: funny because it's funny because the program that Sunjay was

1432
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 1: describing was called in a Flex. That was the name

1433
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 1: of the program into Flex, which was the combined sort

1434
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:45,639
Speaker 1: of shortened college plus med school. And I am six

1435
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:47,680
Speaker 1: years old. I had no idea what that meant. And

1436
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:49,439
Speaker 1: I just heard the word flex and I thought my

1437
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:57,519
Speaker 1: brother was going to be a bodybuilder. Sense I still yeah,

1438
01:16:57,560 --> 01:17:01,800
Speaker 1: I still do one day. So you know that that's

1439
01:17:02,280 --> 01:17:05,240
Speaker 1: it was lonely. Okay, it was lonely. I mean all

1440
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:07,080
Speaker 1: of a sudden, like again, you got this sort of

1441
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:09,680
Speaker 1: larger than my presence who's in your house and is

1442
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:12,880
Speaker 1: kind of everything to you, you know, older brother, second

1443
01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:15,559
Speaker 1: third parent, and then and then all of a sudden,

1444
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:17,720
Speaker 1: that's sort of gone. But the good news was that

1445
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:19,479
Speaker 1: he was. He was not that far away. It was

1446
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:22,920
Speaker 1: only half hour away. So actually one of my one

1447
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:26,160
Speaker 1: of my memory of special memory that I'll never forget

1448
01:17:26,160 --> 01:17:29,200
Speaker 1: a Sunday actually bringing me to his dorm for an

1449
01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:33,360
Speaker 1: overnight stay. I'm seven years old and I'm I'm there

1450
01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:36,320
Speaker 1: hanging out with all his friends. What was that? Was it?

1451
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:41,600
Speaker 1: West squads Quad? Right? Still? I still I still remember that.

1452
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:44,519
Speaker 1: Do you remember that? Crazy? Oh yeah, yeah, of course

1453
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 1: it was special. It was you know, it was it

1454
01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 1: was a it was a really interesting relace. So there

1455
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:53,400
Speaker 1: wasn't a lot of people who had siblings that much younger.

1456
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:55,519
Speaker 1: But I will tell you though, I I did worry

1457
01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:57,439
Speaker 1: that it would be lonely for for Snail at home

1458
01:17:57,520 --> 01:18:00,200
Speaker 1: to your question, you know, because I had been sort

1459
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:02,120
Speaker 1: of a third parent. And I think there was also

1460
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:05,680
Speaker 1: this other nuanced sort of point, which was that, like

1461
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:07,639
Speaker 1: I think, you know, my parents had me pretty young.

1462
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:10,000
Speaker 1: They obviously were ten years older when they had Saniel,

1463
01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:12,000
Speaker 1: but my I think my am was twenty three when

1464
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:14,559
Speaker 1: she had me, you know, so you know, young for

1465
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:19,240
Speaker 1: you know, obviously people have kids at younger ages, but

1466
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:21,720
Speaker 1: for them especially, it was pretty young, and there was

1467
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:24,880
Speaker 1: a there was a certain I think there's a certain

1468
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:27,680
Speaker 1: maturity that just comes about as you get older as

1469
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:30,639
Speaker 1: a parent. And I also think that when you live

1470
01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:33,439
Speaker 1: your life as a refugee early on in life, you

1471
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 1: no matter what, no matter how much success you have,

1472
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:38,640
Speaker 1: you always live this life like it could all be

1473
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:41,479
Speaker 1: taken away tomorrow. It could all go way tomorrow. And

1474
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:45,280
Speaker 1: the way that manifests itself sometimes is stress, just lots

1475
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:48,360
Speaker 1: of stress and a lot of anxiety, and you know,

1476
01:18:48,720 --> 01:18:53,559
Speaker 1: being stricter, I think as parents, and so I think

1477
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:56,479
Speaker 1: I was there in part to as as lighten it up,

1478
01:18:56,479 --> 01:18:58,800
Speaker 1: but also softened the edges a bit. And then I

1479
01:18:58,800 --> 01:19:01,080
Speaker 1: think when I was now up to the medical school,

1480
01:19:01,120 --> 01:19:04,000
Speaker 1: I think my parents did have this idea that even

1481
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:06,400
Speaker 1: if everything was taken away from them, that at least,

1482
01:19:06,479 --> 01:19:08,840
Speaker 1: you know, I was going to have a job and

1483
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:11,920
Speaker 1: you know, help support them if necessary, whatever it might be.

1484
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:14,640
Speaker 1: And that help, I think helped delay some of the

1485
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:19,240
Speaker 1: stress and anxiety in their lives as well. So hopefully

1486
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:22,639
Speaker 1: it serves an ill well, you know, it was again

1487
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:29,800
Speaker 1: talking about fun, fun more levity. Is that is that

1488
01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:32,240
Speaker 1: true with all siblings? Do they always say this that

1489
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:34,960
Speaker 1: the other one had it better? I think maybe they do.

1490
01:19:35,479 --> 01:19:44,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think the best that's true. It's

1491
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:46,640
Speaker 1: so funny. You're talking about visiting him at college at

1492
01:19:46,680 --> 01:19:48,920
Speaker 1: seven years old. When I went to visit Oliver at

1493
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:53,439
Speaker 1: college in Bolder, Older, I literally was like, I'm never

1494
01:19:53,520 --> 01:20:00,240
Speaker 1: going to college. It ruined, it ruined my mind. It

1495
01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:04,720
Speaker 1: was just terrible. Everybody was wasted. Oh yeah, it was

1496
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:08,280
Speaker 1: back then, wasn't that the isn't that why you? Yeah?

1497
01:20:08,360 --> 01:20:12,120
Speaker 1: I mean I went. I showed up at Boulder with

1498
01:20:12,160 --> 01:20:14,120
Speaker 1: my best friend, which was great. You know. One of

1499
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:17,920
Speaker 1: the first moments I had was just watching, you know,

1500
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:21,960
Speaker 1: some guy in a crazy mullet run into a door

1501
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:25,400
Speaker 1: on purpose and knock himself out. That's not even that's

1502
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:27,360
Speaker 1: not even a joke. And I'm like, oh whoa, Like,

1503
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:30,320
Speaker 1: where the hell am I? And I said, well, this

1504
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:33,519
Speaker 1: is a two year plan for me. And I was

1505
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 1: going on campus and off campus, and then I was out,

1506
01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:40,719
Speaker 1: what do you think that mullet guy is doing right now?

1507
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:45,400
Speaker 1: I know his name, I'm not stretching to I don't

1508
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:48,559
Speaker 1: know what it was the face of innovation. He can

1509
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:51,840
Speaker 1: find this for you? Do you guys remember a moment,

1510
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:55,479
Speaker 1: you know, when you know you're ten years apart, but

1511
01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:59,280
Speaker 1: then your ages really didn't matter as much. So Sunday

1512
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:01,960
Speaker 1: and I both we spent we both spent some time

1513
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:06,680
Speaker 1: together in DC. Sunday at the time was gosh, I

1514
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:10,240
Speaker 1: mean what twenty nine and I was nineteen kind of

1515
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:14,920
Speaker 1: around there, and and and we were both we were

1516
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:16,839
Speaker 1: both working at the White House at that time. Sunday

1517
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:19,160
Speaker 1: was a fellow, I was an intern, and we spent

1518
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:21,080
Speaker 1: a lot of that summer together, and that was the

1519
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:24,200
Speaker 1: first time that we had spent I mean, I think

1520
01:21:24,200 --> 01:21:25,479
Speaker 1: it was the first time both of us had been

1521
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:29,360
Speaker 1: outside of Michigan, living outside of Michigan somewhere, and uh,

1522
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:32,640
Speaker 1: and it was it was a really I mean, I

1523
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:35,559
Speaker 1: think that that probably started it. I mean, it's still

1524
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:38,040
Speaker 1: very much was the big brother little brother. Think that

1525
01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:40,439
Speaker 1: was fun. It was a fun time, you know, but

1526
01:21:40,479 --> 01:21:42,639
Speaker 1: I think that was probably it. I think that uh,

1527
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:44,680
Speaker 1: you know, being able to have a drink that was

1528
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:48,280
Speaker 1: just engaging in some tradition, I think made a difference.

1529
01:21:48,360 --> 01:21:52,400
Speaker 1: I think we have a lot of family members we'd

1530
01:21:52,439 --> 01:21:54,680
Speaker 1: go to to go to family weddings and things like that,

1531
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:57,320
Speaker 1: and I remember, you know, people sort of looking at

1532
01:21:57,400 --> 01:22:01,040
Speaker 1: us as just brothers now not not he's ten years older,

1533
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:03,320
Speaker 1: you know, just Snail and Sunjay, you know, just sort

1534
01:22:03,360 --> 01:22:05,960
Speaker 1: of describing us together. I think that And then I

1535
01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:10,639
Speaker 1: think I think certainly after we all had kids, for sure,

1536
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:14,240
Speaker 1: I think you're right about that, Sonel, we uh that

1537
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:16,040
Speaker 1: that now it just it's kind of like it's not

1538
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:19,080
Speaker 1: about us anymore. It's it's about our kids, and therefore

1539
01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:21,559
Speaker 1: we are we're on equal footing. We share that in common,

1540
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:24,599
Speaker 1: that it's not our lives are not for us anymore.

1541
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:27,479
Speaker 1: Were you guys in each other's dating lives? Were you

1542
01:22:27,600 --> 01:22:30,280
Speaker 1: like I like this, I don't like this coming. That

1543
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:34,000
Speaker 1: would have been so weird. Even when we got together

1544
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:36,320
Speaker 1: when he was nineteen or eighteen, you know, I really

1545
01:22:36,360 --> 01:22:39,519
Speaker 1: had not spent time with him since he was six

1546
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:42,800
Speaker 1: or seven years old, so you know, there was still

1547
01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:44,600
Speaker 1: that part of it, like I probably wasn't going to

1548
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:49,120
Speaker 1: ask him for advice on my dating life, although he did,

1549
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:53,479
Speaker 1: but I gave it to him anyway. But he has

1550
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:55,960
Speaker 1: he did spend time with my now wife when he

1551
01:22:56,120 --> 01:22:59,280
Speaker 1: was a kid, I mean, you know, very young and

1552
01:22:59,400 --> 01:23:02,800
Speaker 1: uh just still wild to me right twelve thirteen years old. Yeah,

1553
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:04,880
Speaker 1: I think she came to like my twelfth birthday, which

1554
01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:17,360
Speaker 1: is you know that's younger sage. Cores Light. Actually, I

1555
01:23:17,439 --> 01:23:22,840
Speaker 1: am heading on a RV trip with the family. I'm

1556
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 1: heading up north, and what a perfect time to fill

1557
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:29,479
Speaker 1: my cooler with some Corse light, which I actually will

1558
01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:31,920
Speaker 1: be doing. Corse Light wants to make it easier for

1559
01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:34,320
Speaker 1: you to chill. This summer and give you a break

1560
01:23:34,360 --> 01:23:39,240
Speaker 1: from the stress and the pressures of daily life. Okay, Plus,

1561
01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:42,439
Speaker 1: the new course Light Summer can does the work for you.

1562
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:46,880
Speaker 1: It features sunglasses that literally turn blue when the beer

1563
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:50,160
Speaker 1: is cold and ready to drink. So we have graduated

1564
01:23:50,160 --> 01:23:55,400
Speaker 1: from the mountains to the sunglasses because when you wear sunglasses,

1565
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:58,479
Speaker 1: you're cool. You know what I mean, You're chill. It's

1566
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:01,479
Speaker 1: supposed to be freezing cold. It's made to be cold.

1567
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:03,639
Speaker 1: And you know what, I like a cold beer. I'm

1568
01:24:03,680 --> 01:24:05,519
Speaker 1: one of those like I'm not a big fan of

1569
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:11,599
Speaker 1: the warm ales. Cold crisp, freezing cold. That's my kind

1570
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:14,280
Speaker 1: of beer. And only one hundred and two calories. That's

1571
01:24:14,400 --> 01:24:17,479
Speaker 1: very nice, three point beer. If you want a low

1572
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:22,439
Speaker 1: calorie beer, cores Light is calling to you. Cors Light

1573
01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:25,120
Speaker 1: is brewed with a three step cold process. It's cold loger,

1574
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:29,559
Speaker 1: cold filtered, and cold package, so it's actually made to chill.

1575
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:33,080
Speaker 1: Both the mountains and the sunglasses on the new limited

1576
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:36,679
Speaker 1: edition Summer Cans can turn blue when chilled to perfection.

1577
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:39,280
Speaker 1: That's why cors Light is the one that I choose.

1578
01:24:40,240 --> 01:24:43,519
Speaker 1: That's that's real, right, I know I'm reading, but I

1579
01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:46,559
Speaker 1: actually choose it is the one that I, Oliver Hudson

1580
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:49,400
Speaker 1: choose when I need a moment of chill. So when

1581
01:24:49,439 --> 01:24:52,280
Speaker 1: you want to reset this summer, reach for the beer

1582
01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:54,800
Speaker 1: that is made to chill. You can have corse Light

1583
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:58,800
Speaker 1: delivered by going to get dot Corslight dot com and

1584
01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:03,639
Speaker 1: finding local deliver options near you. Celebrate responsibly, cors brewin company,

1585
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:11,640
Speaker 1: Golden Collar. Okay, Bill Clinton, I took a puff and

1586
01:25:11,680 --> 01:25:15,200
Speaker 1: didn't inhale? Can that our next president be a pothead?

1587
01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:19,479
Speaker 1: Can our next president just say yeah, I smoke weed?

1588
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:23,320
Speaker 1: Asking the man who studied it for five years? Well,

1589
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:26,200
Speaker 1: this is why I'm asking him because you know, I

1590
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:29,160
Speaker 1: know this is probably an exhaustive topic. And we know

1591
01:25:29,200 --> 01:25:32,160
Speaker 1: a lot through you know, your coverage of it and

1592
01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:36,240
Speaker 1: your sort of transformation from being from from against four

1593
01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:40,040
Speaker 1: you know, and I love I love my marijuana for

1594
01:25:40,040 --> 01:25:44,160
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons. But I'm wondering has it changed

1595
01:25:44,160 --> 01:25:46,160
Speaker 1: to where our next president could be like, yeah, I

1596
01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:50,080
Speaker 1: take a puff now and again, Yeah, I think I

1597
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:52,280
Speaker 1: think absolutely, you know, and and you know, I mean

1598
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:56,920
Speaker 1: even if you go back and read you know, President

1599
01:25:56,920 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 1: Obama's book The Audacity of Hope, I mean, he talked

1600
01:26:00,200 --> 01:26:03,120
Speaker 1: about you know, he talks about the fact that he was,

1601
01:26:03,160 --> 01:26:05,840
Speaker 1: as he describes a quote living the life of an

1602
01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:09,280
Speaker 1: urban quote urban black mail at that point, which meant

1603
01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:11,439
Speaker 1: he did a lot of drugs. You know, he did

1604
01:26:11,479 --> 01:26:14,560
Speaker 1: he did things that were illegal and and and the consequence,

1605
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:17,120
Speaker 1: right for someone of his position saying that is then

1606
01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:21,360
Speaker 1: people will say, well, how does that translate towards drug

1607
01:26:21,439 --> 01:26:24,320
Speaker 1: laws and drug reform and all that, And that's always

1608
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:26,840
Speaker 1: going to be the dicey thing. You know, you did it,

1609
01:26:27,160 --> 01:26:30,000
Speaker 1: so why are you Why are people getting penalized for it?

1610
01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:33,360
Speaker 1: You know, fair, fair question. So they'll have to do both.

1611
01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:35,519
Speaker 1: They'll they'll they'll be able to admit it, and they'll

1612
01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:38,040
Speaker 1: have to be able to have a rationale in terms

1613
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:40,720
Speaker 1: of how they're going to take their own experience in

1614
01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:43,519
Speaker 1: and apply it to policy. You know. But yes, I

1615
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:46,719
Speaker 1: think that, uh, I mean, I think what you're saying,

1616
01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:49,640
Speaker 1: in terms of all different sorts of reasons that you

1617
01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:52,519
Speaker 1: said you took that you use marijuana, people do use

1618
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:54,559
Speaker 1: it as a as a medicine, you know. I mean

1619
01:26:54,600 --> 01:26:56,680
Speaker 1: I think that was that was the sort of transformative

1620
01:26:56,680 --> 01:26:59,640
Speaker 1: thing for me, is that you automatically thought of it

1621
01:26:59,800 --> 01:27:03,400
Speaker 1: as is this illicit sort of thing, you know, sort

1622
01:27:03,439 --> 01:27:06,639
Speaker 1: of the the the the hangover from you know, the

1623
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:10,320
Speaker 1: the refer madness sort of thing to this idea that

1624
01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:13,360
Speaker 1: people who actually had legitimate medical problems were taking it

1625
01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:16,640
Speaker 1: for legitimate medical reasons. And and by the way, the

1626
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:19,719
Speaker 1: anti depressants and other medications that they would be prescribed

1627
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:22,280
Speaker 1: had all sorts of side effects, you know, like why

1628
01:27:22,400 --> 01:27:25,320
Speaker 1: was that legal? Why how did they justify that? You know,

1629
01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:27,439
Speaker 1: how do you justify that this is a you know,

1630
01:27:27,479 --> 01:27:30,840
Speaker 1: one hundred billion dollar drug over here, proved by the FDA,

1631
01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:32,599
Speaker 1: prescribed by a doctor, given to you in a pill

1632
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:35,240
Speaker 1: form all that versus this over here, which is a

1633
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:38,120
Speaker 1: plant that helps me and it cost me very little money,

1634
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:42,679
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. So it's a lot has changed.

1635
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:46,720
Speaker 1: I mean, and the research is ongoing, obviously, you know,

1636
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:50,120
Speaker 1: we're just the research is ongoing. But I think what

1637
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:54,280
Speaker 1: we can say is that it's a medicine. Yeah, right

1638
01:27:54,479 --> 01:27:57,200
Speaker 1: do and so so is opioids, and opioids of medicine.

1639
01:27:57,200 --> 01:27:59,559
Speaker 1: They have side effects, but it is a medicine. So

1640
01:27:59,720 --> 01:28:02,600
Speaker 1: I think that's the first sort of decision thing, you know,

1641
01:28:02,760 --> 01:28:05,120
Speaker 1: just it's not just this this hocus pocus of legal

1642
01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:06,519
Speaker 1: I just gotta I just gotta tell you this real

1643
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:09,880
Speaker 1: quick thing about about weed and Sunday because it's funny,

1644
01:28:09,920 --> 01:28:14,920
Speaker 1: like like that's gonna be the name, but it's the first.

1645
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:17,960
Speaker 1: It's the first like issue that like we saw him like,

1646
01:28:18,040 --> 01:28:20,959
Speaker 1: you know, be a journalist but also be an advocate,

1647
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:24,040
Speaker 1: right like actually say like this is what I this

1648
01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:26,040
Speaker 1: is what I believe, by the way, like here's all

1649
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:29,160
Speaker 1: the research behind it, but also I believe, you know,

1650
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:31,839
Speaker 1: be an advocate for it. And it's funny because that's

1651
01:28:31,960 --> 01:28:34,200
Speaker 1: that's the first visible issue at least. And my dad

1652
01:28:34,240 --> 01:28:36,320
Speaker 1: calls me one day and he's like, of all the

1653
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:39,599
Speaker 1: issues that he could have chosen, he chose his metajuana.

1654
01:28:44,160 --> 01:28:46,640
Speaker 1: I didn't know that really that was upset with me

1655
01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:49,280
Speaker 1: about the whole the whole pop thing. I Mom was

1656
01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:52,519
Speaker 1: proud of me. Mom's always proud. I'm so proud of you.

1657
01:28:52,640 --> 01:28:55,400
Speaker 1: Mom's always prepp What was the year with the first

1658
01:28:55,600 --> 01:28:59,800
Speaker 1: thing on CNN with weed. Let's see, I think that

1659
01:28:59,920 --> 01:29:04,200
Speaker 1: was two thousand and fifteen, maybe five years ago, five

1660
01:29:04,240 --> 01:29:06,200
Speaker 1: six years ago. But I want to get to psilocybin

1661
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:08,839
Speaker 1: really quickly because this is something that had been studied

1662
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:11,320
Speaker 1: earlier on you know, I think it was like in

1663
01:29:11,360 --> 01:29:14,160
Speaker 1: the forties and fifties and sixties, and then the drug

1664
01:29:14,160 --> 01:29:17,519
Speaker 1: culture sort of, you know, the counter culture, I guess

1665
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:20,040
Speaker 1: ruined it. I think, as you know, it's exactly what

1666
01:29:20,080 --> 01:29:22,960
Speaker 1: you said. There's a similar trajectory here. You know, psilocybin

1667
01:29:23,120 --> 01:29:25,479
Speaker 1: was used for the treatment of addiction in the forties

1668
01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:30,840
Speaker 1: as we came off of you know, the prohibition sort

1669
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:33,640
Speaker 1: of era. There were all these different substances that I

1670
01:29:33,680 --> 01:29:37,120
Speaker 1: think that's those those enforcers were setting their sights on,

1671
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:42,160
Speaker 1: including cannabis, including psilocybin. I got really I read Michael's

1672
01:29:42,479 --> 01:29:44,840
Speaker 1: first article that he wrote in The New Yorker about

1673
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:48,559
Speaker 1: the NYU trial, which even predated the original Hopkins trial,

1674
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:52,920
Speaker 1: and that was amazing and I am lucky to know Michael.

1675
01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:54,439
Speaker 1: I talked to him a lot, spent a lot of

1676
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:56,559
Speaker 1: time just talking about the science. I went and interviewed

1677
01:29:56,920 --> 01:30:01,080
Speaker 1: the scientists at NYU who did that first trial, and

1678
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:04,240
Speaker 1: it was mind blowing. Really. I mean you may know this,

1679
01:30:04,360 --> 01:30:07,719
Speaker 1: but just briefly, there was thirty patients in that initial trial.

1680
01:30:07,800 --> 01:30:10,599
Speaker 1: All of them had been given a terminal diagnosis. They

1681
01:30:10,600 --> 01:30:15,880
Speaker 1: were all going to die, different ages, different reasons, different backgrounds,

1682
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:21,920
Speaker 1: belief systems, and they were incorrigible in terms of their depression,

1683
01:30:21,960 --> 01:30:25,040
Speaker 1: their anxiety. They just could not nothing was working. So

1684
01:30:25,080 --> 01:30:27,960
Speaker 1: they had this terrible situation where they were terminal and

1685
01:30:28,040 --> 01:30:32,679
Speaker 1: they were also becoming increasingly suicidal, totally isolated from their families.

1686
01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:35,720
Speaker 1: And they got enrolled in this trial using psilocybin, a

1687
01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:39,680
Speaker 1: single dose of psilocybin. And I mean, you know, the

1688
01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:41,840
Speaker 1: reason it became such a big deal was because that

1689
01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:46,000
Speaker 1: trial was unbelievable. I mean, you had twenty six people

1690
01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:49,120
Speaker 1: who had response, which was these are people who didn't

1691
01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:52,960
Speaker 1: respond to anything, anything, They went through generations of medications,

1692
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:56,800
Speaker 1: nothing worked. Twenty six of them had a response. Many

1693
01:30:56,800 --> 01:30:59,559
Speaker 1: of them never had to take another medication again, you know,

1694
01:30:59,640 --> 01:31:01,920
Speaker 1: so worked. Not only did it work, but it was durable,

1695
01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:05,680
Speaker 1: lasted for several months, maybe even longer. So it's I

1696
01:31:05,680 --> 01:31:07,879
Speaker 1: think it's really interesting, and I think you know the idea,

1697
01:31:07,960 --> 01:31:09,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I could go really deep into this, but

1698
01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:11,599
Speaker 1: you know, we we're trying to maintain a certain amount

1699
01:31:11,600 --> 01:31:14,160
Speaker 1: of serotonin in the brain. Problem is, when you give

1700
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:17,559
Speaker 1: serotonin through a pill, the body then is basically saying

1701
01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:20,439
Speaker 1: that's great, getting serotonin elsewhere. I no longer need to

1702
01:31:20,439 --> 01:31:24,360
Speaker 1: make it. So when you stop taking the serotonin or

1703
01:31:24,800 --> 01:31:28,000
Speaker 1: a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, which is what these medications are.

1704
01:31:28,520 --> 01:31:31,240
Speaker 1: Then you crash and you can have these horrible, horrible

1705
01:31:31,320 --> 01:31:35,360
Speaker 1: sort of episodes and side effects. For whatever reason, psilocybin

1706
01:31:35,439 --> 01:31:37,680
Speaker 1: seems to create a pattern in the brain where the

1707
01:31:37,720 --> 01:31:40,800
Speaker 1: body essentially is sort of teaching itself to make this

1708
01:31:40,880 --> 01:31:45,400
Speaker 1: serotonin two again, the specific serotonin. Again. It's wild. Why

1709
01:31:45,439 --> 01:31:47,760
Speaker 1: would that happen? We don't know. But I think this

1710
01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:51,800
Speaker 1: idea that we did evolved with these plants. Yeah, no,

1711
01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:54,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean people, you know. Now, I will

1712
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:56,320
Speaker 1: say that the difference, I guess a little bit between

1713
01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:59,360
Speaker 1: psilocybin and cannabis is that cannabis side effect profile is

1714
01:31:59,439 --> 01:32:03,720
Speaker 1: super super low. I mean, nobody, nobody's ever probably really

1715
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:07,439
Speaker 1: had significant problems, you know, on cannabis, and some people

1716
01:32:07,479 --> 01:32:10,400
Speaker 1: do with psilocybin, you know. But and so I think

1717
01:32:10,439 --> 01:32:12,439
Speaker 1: it would need to be studied in terms of dosing it,

1718
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:15,640
Speaker 1: and whether microdosing makes sense, and all these various things

1719
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:17,840
Speaker 1: that they're looking at. But I think that this is

1720
01:32:17,880 --> 01:32:21,200
Speaker 1: another example of a plant, of a naturally occurring thing

1721
01:32:21,360 --> 01:32:25,680
Speaker 1: being being ostracized for political reasons. You know, it's for

1722
01:32:25,760 --> 01:32:29,760
Speaker 1: cultural reasons, not for scientific but it's shifting. At least

1723
01:32:29,760 --> 01:32:32,880
Speaker 1: it's shifting. Yeah, we couldn't talk about these things at all.

1724
01:32:33,040 --> 01:32:34,640
Speaker 1: I mean when I first did the Weed documentary and

1725
01:32:34,680 --> 01:32:37,960
Speaker 1: I wrote an op ed that I was worried. I

1726
01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:41,680
Speaker 1: think I probably even called Saneil and said the I

1727
01:32:41,680 --> 01:32:43,479
Speaker 1: don't know what's going to happen tomorrow when this thing

1728
01:32:43,479 --> 01:32:46,080
Speaker 1: gets published. You know, I don't know how my I

1729
01:32:46,120 --> 01:32:48,600
Speaker 1: still practice neurosurgery. I don't know how my colleagues in

1730
01:32:48,640 --> 01:32:50,439
Speaker 1: the hospital are going to look at me or think

1731
01:32:50,439 --> 01:32:52,000
Speaker 1: about this. Are they going to think of me as

1732
01:32:52,000 --> 01:33:00,519
Speaker 1: some pothead who's just like right exactly? But you know, stories,

1733
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:02,960
Speaker 1: my favorite stories from that time is like Sunday was

1734
01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:05,640
Speaker 1: at like the it was like the New York, New

1735
01:33:05,720 --> 01:33:08,439
Speaker 1: York CNN office, and he was going out to lunch

1736
01:33:08,479 --> 01:33:10,479
Speaker 1: with like a few of the executives. He's got suit

1737
01:33:10,520 --> 01:33:12,840
Speaker 1: types and they're like on the street in New York

1738
01:33:12,920 --> 01:33:15,160
Speaker 1: and they're walking down the street and then all of

1739
01:33:15,200 --> 01:33:18,599
Speaker 1: a sudden, like there's a bunch of guys from across

1740
01:33:18,600 --> 01:33:21,639
Speaker 1: the street. They're like, yo, doctor sanj Guta, you fucking

1741
01:33:21,720 --> 01:33:28,280
Speaker 1: rule men. They were clearly high. Look at them, and

1742
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:30,040
Speaker 1: they kind of give you this look like this year

1743
01:33:30,360 --> 01:33:33,240
Speaker 1: your buds and I'm like the Weed documentaries. You know,

1744
01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:37,639
Speaker 1: it's a whole new It's a funny story, actually it is,

1745
01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:42,000
Speaker 1: but it speaks volumes to expanding your demographic for real.

1746
01:33:42,240 --> 01:33:47,000
Speaker 1: I mean that one off ed or the one documentary boom,

1747
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:51,160
Speaker 1: you have just expanded your demographic by at least twenty

1748
01:33:51,200 --> 01:33:54,719
Speaker 1: five million people. It's crazy, right, I know. And and

1749
01:33:54,720 --> 01:33:56,920
Speaker 1: and you know, one thing I'll say about that is

1750
01:33:56,960 --> 01:33:59,439
Speaker 1: that as you know, as a lot of people who've

1751
01:33:59,439 --> 01:34:01,280
Speaker 1: been beating the I'm on this issue know, and they

1752
01:34:01,320 --> 01:34:05,040
Speaker 1: would rightfully say this is that so I've been saying

1753
01:34:05,040 --> 01:34:07,320
Speaker 1: this for twenty years. Other people would say that, right,

1754
01:34:07,360 --> 01:34:09,599
Speaker 1: I've been saying this for twenty years. And then Sandre

1755
01:34:09,680 --> 01:34:11,519
Speaker 1: Gupte gets on and he does this thing, and all

1756
01:34:11,520 --> 01:34:14,559
Speaker 1: of a sudden, well, you know, I would no way

1757
01:34:14,720 --> 01:34:17,280
Speaker 1: dismiss all the work that came ahead of time. I

1758
01:34:17,880 --> 01:34:21,280
Speaker 1: admitted it. I wasn't listening to people. I dismissed them

1759
01:34:21,640 --> 01:34:23,880
Speaker 1: because I thought it was a just a ladder towards

1760
01:34:23,920 --> 01:34:28,600
Speaker 1: recreational There wasn't any other motive in my mind, you know.

1761
01:34:28,960 --> 01:34:32,120
Speaker 1: I So it did take the digging. But there were

1762
01:34:32,120 --> 01:34:34,800
Speaker 1: people who've been saying this for a long time, you know,

1763
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:38,960
Speaker 1: and and we just we just got to amplify that message.

1764
01:34:39,080 --> 01:34:42,280
Speaker 1: Are you still practicing, by the way, I mean still practice? Yeah.

1765
01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:45,200
Speaker 1: Do you get people calling you like I want Gooped

1766
01:34:45,280 --> 01:34:49,880
Speaker 1: to do my surgery? I just think he's amazing. I

1767
01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:52,759
Speaker 1: found like, there's three there's three types of patients. I've realized.

1768
01:34:52,760 --> 01:34:56,520
Speaker 1: There is that type who they see you on television

1769
01:34:56,640 --> 01:34:59,160
Speaker 1: and they figure, well, if he's on television, he must

1770
01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:00,960
Speaker 1: be good, which is where ic that's no way to

1771
01:35:00,960 --> 01:35:03,760
Speaker 1: think about the world. I think I'm good, don't get

1772
01:35:03,760 --> 01:35:05,120
Speaker 1: me wrong, but I don't think I'm any better because

1773
01:35:05,120 --> 01:35:08,920
Speaker 1: I'm on television. The second type, I think is people

1774
01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:13,360
Speaker 1: who actually would prefer that you're not on television, like, hey, so,

1775
01:35:13,520 --> 01:35:15,840
Speaker 1: just so we're clear, you're thinking about nothing but my brain,

1776
01:35:16,040 --> 01:35:18,240
Speaker 1: you know, during this time, right, which is which is

1777
01:35:18,240 --> 01:35:20,480
Speaker 1: what I would do anyways. And then there's a significant

1778
01:35:20,479 --> 01:35:25,360
Speaker 1: population that just doesn't doesn't register, doesn't click that. Somebody

1779
01:35:25,400 --> 01:35:27,479
Speaker 1: will tell them afterward or something like that and they'll

1780
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:31,040
Speaker 1: be like, wait, what that guy so really, But you

1781
01:35:31,040 --> 01:35:34,559
Speaker 1: get patients who aren't aware that you're going to be

1782
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:37,559
Speaker 1: doing their surgery and they're like, yeah, so Sanjay Guptu

1783
01:35:37,600 --> 01:35:39,679
Speaker 1: will be doing your surgery and they're like, what fucking

1784
01:35:39,800 --> 01:35:46,400
Speaker 1: cool man, Well, the the the if. So if we're

1785
01:35:46,439 --> 01:35:48,679
Speaker 1: doing like if we're doing elective operations, you know, I'll

1786
01:35:48,680 --> 01:35:51,200
Speaker 1: go meet with the patient in the office and talk

1787
01:35:51,240 --> 01:35:52,920
Speaker 1: to them and the clinic and stuff like that, so

1788
01:35:52,960 --> 01:35:55,920
Speaker 1: you know we have that relationship already, and okay, you know,

1789
01:35:56,320 --> 01:35:58,720
Speaker 1: now there will be trauma sometimes, like I'll take care

1790
01:35:58,720 --> 01:36:01,960
Speaker 1: of trauma patients, and after trauma a car accident or

1791
01:36:01,960 --> 01:36:03,400
Speaker 1: a gunshot wound to the head or something like that,

1792
01:36:03,439 --> 01:36:06,080
Speaker 1: I'll go talk to the family afterwards and the patient

1793
01:36:06,160 --> 01:36:10,160
Speaker 1: and there'll be that that moment of sort of oh

1794
01:36:10,240 --> 01:36:13,200
Speaker 1: my god, that would be like love, one's doing great.

1795
01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:16,400
Speaker 1: I mean, that would be shocking. I would think that

1796
01:36:16,400 --> 01:36:18,559
Speaker 1: that family would that would be one of those sort

1797
01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:22,160
Speaker 1: of shocking moments of like, oh my god, oh my god,

1798
01:36:22,280 --> 01:36:25,880
Speaker 1: well it's like saved my life. You should tell me

1799
01:36:25,920 --> 01:36:32,400
Speaker 1: a story about about Jesus. Jesus, Oh yeah, oh I

1800
01:36:32,479 --> 01:36:36,280
Speaker 1: love this. Well, yeah, that's right. So I mean it's

1801
01:36:36,320 --> 01:36:39,599
Speaker 1: it's I'll summarize because it's but when I was out

1802
01:36:39,640 --> 01:36:42,120
Speaker 1: in a rock you know, covering a war as a

1803
01:36:42,120 --> 01:36:44,519
Speaker 1: as a neurosurgeon. You know, there was a journalist but

1804
01:36:44,720 --> 01:36:47,760
Speaker 1: covering as a neurosurgeon. There weren't neurosurgeons out there in

1805
01:36:47,840 --> 01:36:51,160
Speaker 1: the particular area of the battlefield where I was, and

1806
01:36:51,160 --> 01:36:53,360
Speaker 1: and I was embedded with a group of doctors called

1807
01:36:53,400 --> 01:36:57,000
Speaker 1: the Devil Docks, and uh, we were got really tight.

1808
01:36:57,040 --> 01:36:58,880
Speaker 1: I mean, you're in a war together and you get

1809
01:36:58,880 --> 01:37:03,000
Speaker 1: really close. And so there for weeks and one day

1810
01:37:03,360 --> 01:37:07,920
Speaker 1: somebody got shot in the head, a lieutenant. It was

1811
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:10,800
Speaker 1: on patrol outside Baghdad, and they came to me, and

1812
01:37:10,880 --> 01:37:12,680
Speaker 1: I was again the only neurosurgeon. They were like, can

1813
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:15,920
Speaker 1: you take off your journalist cap and put on your

1814
01:37:15,960 --> 01:37:18,320
Speaker 1: sergeants cap and take care of him, which I which

1815
01:37:18,320 --> 01:37:20,760
Speaker 1: of course I wanted to do and was honored to do,

1816
01:37:20,880 --> 01:37:25,200
Speaker 1: and ended up operating on him and decompressing his brain,

1817
01:37:25,240 --> 01:37:27,000
Speaker 1: taking this bullet out of his brain in the desert,

1818
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:31,479
Speaker 1: and which is a whole sort of you know, life

1819
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:34,760
Speaker 1: sort of moment. But but and I didn't know how

1820
01:37:34,760 --> 01:37:37,200
Speaker 1: he was going to do. He you know, was a

1821
01:37:37,240 --> 01:37:41,840
Speaker 1: significant injury of a sniper injury. And months later, I'm

1822
01:37:41,840 --> 01:37:44,920
Speaker 1: home and I get a call from from San Diego

1823
01:37:45,000 --> 01:37:48,439
Speaker 1: where he lived, and it was the rehab center where

1824
01:37:48,880 --> 01:37:50,360
Speaker 1: they were taking care of him, and I didn't even

1825
01:37:50,400 --> 01:37:53,160
Speaker 1: know that he had survived. There was no medical records

1826
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:55,280
Speaker 1: in the desert. So they called him and he's like,

1827
01:37:55,280 --> 01:37:57,880
Speaker 1: you know, do you remember operating on Jesus Vedania over

1828
01:37:57,920 --> 01:38:00,759
Speaker 1: in a rock And I'm like, yeah, operating on Jesus

1829
01:38:00,800 --> 01:38:02,880
Speaker 1: in the middle of the desert. How do you forget that? Right?

1830
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:06,720
Speaker 1: And I uh, I uh. They're like and I was like,

1831
01:38:07,000 --> 01:38:09,400
Speaker 1: how's he How's he doing? And they say, well, he's

1832
01:38:09,479 --> 01:38:10,680
Speaker 1: you know, he's got a little bit of left hand

1833
01:38:10,680 --> 01:38:13,160
Speaker 1: weakness going that he's doing great. You should you should

1834
01:38:13,160 --> 01:38:15,240
Speaker 1: pa him a visit sometime, which was so I was

1835
01:38:15,240 --> 01:38:19,080
Speaker 1: out in southern California. I uh, I go to look

1836
01:38:19,120 --> 01:38:21,160
Speaker 1: him up, go to his house, call him ahead of time.

1837
01:38:21,200 --> 01:38:25,080
Speaker 1: It wasn't a total surprise. He answers a door, handsome marine.

1838
01:38:25,400 --> 01:38:27,639
Speaker 1: You know, last I'd seen him, he was just beaten

1839
01:38:27,680 --> 01:38:30,719
Speaker 1: and battered on the desert floor, and you know, and

1840
01:38:30,800 --> 01:38:33,040
Speaker 1: he was great, and you know, just kind of fall

1841
01:38:33,120 --> 01:38:36,599
Speaker 1: into it right, start talking and we go inside his house.

1842
01:38:36,600 --> 01:38:39,280
Speaker 1: He's young guy, he's living with his parents, and his

1843
01:38:39,360 --> 01:38:42,160
Speaker 1: mom comes out a few minutes later, and she's so

1844
01:38:42,320 --> 01:38:44,240
Speaker 1: sweet and she takes my hands. Are you the guy

1845
01:38:44,240 --> 01:38:46,920
Speaker 1: that operated on my son? Said yes, ma'am, I am,

1846
01:38:46,960 --> 01:38:49,000
Speaker 1: and she holds my hands. Thank you very much, you know.

1847
01:38:49,080 --> 01:38:52,160
Speaker 1: And then a couple of minutes later, dad comes out.

1848
01:38:52,439 --> 01:38:55,200
Speaker 1: Dads are different, and he's like, you're the guy that

1849
01:38:55,280 --> 01:38:58,760
Speaker 1: operated on my son. I said, yes, there I am.

1850
01:38:59,040 --> 01:39:05,240
Speaker 1: He goes and you're a journalist. I'd quite gotten the

1851
01:39:05,240 --> 01:39:11,320
Speaker 1: whole story. So but we you know, I'll tell you

1852
01:39:11,360 --> 01:39:13,440
Speaker 1: one other thing. And that reminded me just of this podcast,

1853
01:39:14,120 --> 01:39:17,439
Speaker 1: is that we we just sat down talked Jesus, his

1854
01:39:17,479 --> 01:39:20,080
Speaker 1: mom and dad and I. We just started talking and

1855
01:39:20,280 --> 01:39:22,400
Speaker 1: I realized something. And this is months after the guy

1856
01:39:22,520 --> 01:39:25,160
Speaker 1: been shot in the head, almost died in the middle

1857
01:39:25,200 --> 01:39:28,639
Speaker 1: of a war zone outside of Baghdad, went to Germany

1858
01:39:28,720 --> 01:39:31,599
Speaker 1: for rehabro I went to Walter Reed ended up going

1859
01:39:31,640 --> 01:39:35,360
Speaker 1: back to southern California where he lived, and I realized

1860
01:39:35,400 --> 01:39:36,960
Speaker 1: after a few minutes of being there with them, they'd

1861
01:39:37,000 --> 01:39:39,760
Speaker 1: never really talked about it. I mean, they sort of

1862
01:39:39,760 --> 01:39:42,600
Speaker 1: talked about it. They talked about it procedurally, like you know,

1863
01:39:42,640 --> 01:39:44,679
Speaker 1: you flew from here to here, but just the idea

1864
01:39:45,240 --> 01:39:47,920
Speaker 1: of like what it meant for them that they thought

1865
01:39:47,920 --> 01:39:50,519
Speaker 1: they were going to lose their son. That Hejesus had

1866
01:39:50,520 --> 01:39:53,200
Speaker 1: said to him, his father before he left, that I'll

1867
01:39:53,200 --> 01:39:55,360
Speaker 1: be fine, don't worry about me. Only worry if a

1868
01:39:55,360 --> 01:39:57,400
Speaker 1: car pulls up with a couple guys in uniforms, that

1869
01:39:57,439 --> 01:39:59,880
Speaker 1: means that's bad. That means I'm dead. And that's exactly

1870
01:39:59,880 --> 01:40:01,800
Speaker 1: what it happened. And that's the only thing his father

1871
01:40:01,840 --> 01:40:04,600
Speaker 1: could remember when they came to tell him that, you know,

1872
01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:07,320
Speaker 1: his Zeus had been shot, and you know, just like

1873
01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:09,920
Speaker 1: all those things. And I think it's not a good

1874
01:40:09,920 --> 01:40:13,439
Speaker 1: experience by any means, but it was an experience and

1875
01:40:13,800 --> 01:40:17,200
Speaker 1: the idea that they, like I was nurturing that conversation

1876
01:40:17,320 --> 01:40:20,160
Speaker 1: for them. I felt it was very powerful. It's kind

1877
01:40:20,160 --> 01:40:22,040
Speaker 1: of like, I mean, this is a different sort of

1878
01:40:22,040 --> 01:40:23,720
Speaker 1: conversation we're having right now. But Sneil and I never

1879
01:40:23,720 --> 01:40:26,200
Speaker 1: get to talk like this, you know, it's kind of wild.

1880
01:40:26,280 --> 01:40:30,320
Speaker 1: We just don't have these conversations. So it's so important. Also,

1881
01:40:30,479 --> 01:40:32,920
Speaker 1: like just the fact that there's nobody in the world

1882
01:40:33,000 --> 01:40:35,680
Speaker 1: who knows you better than your younger brother. I mean,

1883
01:40:35,800 --> 01:40:39,559
Speaker 1: he's seen it all and vice versa. Have you guys

1884
01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:42,400
Speaker 1: seen each other at all or where are you at

1885
01:40:42,439 --> 01:40:47,160
Speaker 1: with that? Just hang out. Yeah, we was supposed to

1886
01:40:47,160 --> 01:40:48,840
Speaker 1: all hang out in March. We were actually going to

1887
01:40:48,880 --> 01:40:52,200
Speaker 1: see my parents, our parents, and we end up calling

1888
01:40:52,200 --> 01:40:55,479
Speaker 1: that off, like and this was before any shelter in

1889
01:40:55,520 --> 01:40:58,360
Speaker 1: place or anything, and so everybody's excited, particularly our girls,

1890
01:40:58,479 --> 01:41:00,479
Speaker 1: were very excited to see each other. They really like

1891
01:41:00,520 --> 01:41:03,680
Speaker 1: hanging out. And uh and calls me a couple of

1892
01:41:03,720 --> 01:41:06,040
Speaker 1: days before we're all going to leave and says, you know,

1893
01:41:06,120 --> 01:41:08,479
Speaker 1: I think we should. I think this thing is gonna,

1894
01:41:09,320 --> 01:41:11,200
Speaker 1: you know, be be more real than people are giving

1895
01:41:11,200 --> 01:41:14,919
Speaker 1: your credit for, and we should probably bag the plans.

1896
01:41:15,439 --> 01:41:17,599
Speaker 1: And so we haven't. We haven't seen each other in

1897
01:41:17,640 --> 01:41:22,759
Speaker 1: person since then, but you know soon like my daughters,

1898
01:41:22,760 --> 01:41:25,879
Speaker 1: My daughters cannot wait. They are constantly talking about their cousins,

1899
01:41:25,920 --> 01:41:28,200
Speaker 1: constantly talking about when are we going to see them?

1900
01:41:28,360 --> 01:41:31,040
Speaker 1: So one way or another, like we're driving out to

1901
01:41:31,080 --> 01:41:34,599
Speaker 1: you mm hmm. So you guys are obviously I mean

1902
01:41:34,760 --> 01:41:36,840
Speaker 1: that you can feel the love between you guys. You're

1903
01:41:36,880 --> 01:41:40,639
Speaker 1: extremely close and oh it would go that far. Actually

1904
01:41:42,520 --> 01:41:46,840
Speaker 1: I missed the mark on that one. What was that

1905
01:41:46,840 --> 01:41:52,320
Speaker 1: you were saying before, Oliver, some things don't change. What's

1906
01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:55,280
Speaker 1: the book that that you guys wrote that is that

1907
01:41:55,280 --> 01:41:57,320
Speaker 1: that is not not together, but the each that that

1908
01:41:57,520 --> 01:42:00,760
Speaker 1: has not come out yet. Yeah, those back on mine's

1909
01:42:00,760 --> 01:42:03,559
Speaker 1: called Keep Sharp. My book sort of is about the brain,

1910
01:42:03,840 --> 01:42:05,920
Speaker 1: and it's it's this idea a little bit like what

1911
01:42:05,920 --> 01:42:07,880
Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier that you know, we do

1912
01:42:07,960 --> 01:42:11,960
Speaker 1: tend to medicalize everything with regard to the brain, Alzheimer's disease,

1913
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:15,799
Speaker 1: various forms of dementia, the self healing of the brain.

1914
01:42:16,080 --> 01:42:20,200
Speaker 1: What is possible really and evidence based. You know, we

1915
01:42:20,479 --> 01:42:22,599
Speaker 1: look at societies around the world that have hardly any

1916
01:42:22,640 --> 01:42:26,160
Speaker 1: evidence of dementia. There are things to learn from these places,

1917
01:42:26,280 --> 01:42:29,519
Speaker 1: and we now recognize that, you know, the basic lifestyle

1918
01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:32,320
Speaker 1: changes that we used to think of primarily with heart disease.

1919
01:42:32,439 --> 01:42:34,640
Speaker 1: You know, we can reduce heart disease by doing the

1920
01:42:34,680 --> 01:42:36,719
Speaker 1: following things. We don't think about that with the brain

1921
01:42:37,240 --> 01:42:41,080
Speaker 1: as much, but that evidence does exist. So I you know,

1922
01:42:41,120 --> 01:42:42,439
Speaker 1: it was a selfish book in a way. I just

1923
01:42:42,439 --> 01:42:44,240
Speaker 1: want to learn as much as I could and have

1924
01:42:44,320 --> 01:42:47,240
Speaker 1: an organizational structure to do it. And I love the brain,

1925
01:42:47,800 --> 01:42:51,360
Speaker 1: so I can't can't wait. Okay, side al, So yours

1926
01:42:51,400 --> 01:42:53,720
Speaker 1: is called backable. Yeah. Backable is all about how do

1927
01:42:53,760 --> 01:42:56,599
Speaker 1: you inspire people to take a chance on you. And

1928
01:42:56,680 --> 01:42:59,120
Speaker 1: I got inspired to write the book because when I

1929
01:42:59,240 --> 01:43:02,320
Speaker 1: was bound my first company, I was struggling to get

1930
01:43:02,320 --> 01:43:04,639
Speaker 1: people to invest in it, Like how do you raise money?

1931
01:43:04,720 --> 01:43:07,960
Speaker 1: How do you get people excited about the idea? And

1932
01:43:08,040 --> 01:43:10,040
Speaker 1: I kind of had to just work my way into

1933
01:43:10,080 --> 01:43:11,680
Speaker 1: it and figure it out. And along the way, I

1934
01:43:11,720 --> 01:43:14,280
Speaker 1: started taking notes like here's what's working and here's what's not.

1935
01:43:15,400 --> 01:43:18,599
Speaker 1: And then, you know, after I ended up selling the company,

1936
01:43:18,760 --> 01:43:21,679
Speaker 1: I started interviewing people who are backers across all these

1937
01:43:21,720 --> 01:43:25,400
Speaker 1: different industries, so you know, military leaders at places like

1938
01:43:25,400 --> 01:43:29,559
Speaker 1: the Pentagon, creative executives at places like Pixar and Lego, Oscar,

1939
01:43:29,800 --> 01:43:32,920
Speaker 1: nominated producers and directors, and just understanding what is it

1940
01:43:33,000 --> 01:43:35,280
Speaker 1: that inspires them to say yes to something, Yes to

1941
01:43:35,320 --> 01:43:38,000
Speaker 1: an idea, yes to a person. And I started to

1942
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:40,439
Speaker 1: realize that there's really these themes that come out no

1943
01:43:40,479 --> 01:43:42,680
Speaker 1: matter where you are, no matter what you're trying to do,

1944
01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:45,720
Speaker 1: whether you're starting a nonprofit, a service and app kate

1945
01:43:46,080 --> 01:43:49,479
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, there are these common themes about

1946
01:43:49,840 --> 01:43:52,280
Speaker 1: how you get somebody excited about your idea. So that's

1947
01:43:52,320 --> 01:43:55,760
Speaker 1: what this book is about. Speed round. Okay, ready, let's

1948
01:43:55,800 --> 01:44:04,160
Speaker 1: go here we go. One word to describe the other, courageous, compassionate. Okay,

1949
01:44:04,240 --> 01:44:09,200
Speaker 1: what about one word to describe the other at sixteen excited? Excited.

1950
01:44:10,080 --> 01:44:11,720
Speaker 1: It was a big year for you. You You you you

1951
01:44:11,760 --> 01:44:13,439
Speaker 1: wanted to get you You're you're on the brink of

1952
01:44:13,439 --> 01:44:15,240
Speaker 1: going out and doing getting out of the house, and

1953
01:44:15,680 --> 01:44:20,800
Speaker 1: you're excited getting out of No Bay, Michigan. Yeah, that

1954
01:44:20,880 --> 01:44:32,719
Speaker 1: was that's true. One word curious. Who's more competitive? Hmm,

1955
01:44:33,760 --> 01:44:36,960
Speaker 1: that's a good question. So now you go first. I

1956
01:44:37,080 --> 01:44:42,200
Speaker 1: think I think you are more competitive, I would say, I,

1957
01:44:42,200 --> 01:44:44,519
Speaker 1: I don't know, what do you think? Yeah, I think

1958
01:44:44,560 --> 01:44:47,080
Speaker 1: that's probably true. I think it's probably true. I think

1959
01:44:47,120 --> 01:44:48,680
Speaker 1: I think part of that just goes back to the

1960
01:44:48,720 --> 01:44:52,200
Speaker 1: earlier discussion where the metric of success was just different.

1961
01:44:52,479 --> 01:44:55,040
Speaker 1: You know, it was the measurables, so I needed to

1962
01:44:55,040 --> 01:44:57,320
Speaker 1: get the measurable things right. But I think you were

1963
01:44:57,320 --> 01:45:00,160
Speaker 1: always I wouldn't say competitive, but you were always really

1964
01:45:00,200 --> 01:45:03,719
Speaker 1: good at all that stuff. You just didn't have a

1965
01:45:03,720 --> 01:45:06,240
Speaker 1: competitiveness didn't drive you. I don't think, Okay, who is

1966
01:45:06,240 --> 01:45:17,479
Speaker 1: the favorite child, Who's who's the biggest hypochondria act? Nail? Definitely? Really,

1967
01:45:17,600 --> 01:45:21,280
Speaker 1: I don't know. You always had some ailment. Always Mama

1968
01:45:21,360 --> 01:45:23,519
Speaker 1: was always calling me Sanil, it doesn't feel well today,

1969
01:45:24,600 --> 01:45:25,800
Speaker 1: Like he's trying to get out of a test, Like

1970
01:45:25,800 --> 01:45:27,479
Speaker 1: does he have a test? He's getting out of a test.

1971
01:45:27,680 --> 01:45:31,479
Speaker 1: But do you are you hypochondriacal at all? I mean,

1972
01:45:31,760 --> 01:45:33,559
Speaker 1: is there any part of you? It's like, oh, what

1973
01:45:33,720 --> 01:45:36,920
Speaker 1: is this? No? Uh no, I mean it would have

1974
01:45:36,960 --> 01:45:38,880
Speaker 1: to be pretty bad. It would have to be pretty bad.

1975
01:45:38,880 --> 01:45:41,360
Speaker 1: I'm I'm, you know a little bit with this COVID

1976
01:45:41,400 --> 01:45:43,760
Speaker 1: stuff because I was in some crazy places and I

1977
01:45:43,760 --> 01:45:47,479
Speaker 1: thought I definitely have it. But I'm I'm And even

1978
01:45:47,520 --> 01:45:49,240
Speaker 1: with the kids, the kids joke, I mean, my wife's

1979
01:45:49,240 --> 01:45:51,000
Speaker 1: not a doctor. They always go to her for any

1980
01:45:51,200 --> 01:45:57,200
Speaker 1: anything because that's not a thing. That's a cut. Let

1981
01:45:57,240 --> 01:46:05,040
Speaker 1: me show you a cut. Who's boss here? Be me?

1982
01:46:07,479 --> 01:46:14,679
Speaker 1: I'm an older sibling. I think who got the better grades? Subjay? Yeah?

1983
01:46:14,720 --> 01:46:20,840
Speaker 1: I did. Who's your first celebrity crush? M hmm. The

1984
01:46:20,840 --> 01:46:26,320
Speaker 1: girl played Winnie Cooper on Oh Oh My God on

1985
01:46:26,479 --> 01:46:33,760
Speaker 1: Wonder Years it Fred. I loved Fred Savage and then

1986
01:46:33,800 --> 01:46:35,599
Speaker 1: I remember I went to prom and he was there

1987
01:46:35,640 --> 01:46:39,440
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, there's Fred Savage.

1988
01:46:39,800 --> 01:46:44,599
Speaker 1: That is how most stories don't turn out. I don't

1989
01:46:44,640 --> 01:46:52,960
Speaker 1: remember Jamie Summers. Oh, James, Jamie Summers, Jamie Summers. It's

1990
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:55,600
Speaker 1: it's it's the six million dollar man. She was the

1991
01:46:55,640 --> 01:46:59,559
Speaker 1: bionic woman, right, that's right. Jesus really was like the

1992
01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:04,960
Speaker 1: only you. He based a lot an hour of television

1993
01:47:05,040 --> 01:47:08,800
Speaker 1: a week. His entire practice is based on the six

1994
01:47:08,840 --> 01:47:13,800
Speaker 1: million dollars. No one knows that go deep on this.

1995
01:47:16,640 --> 01:47:24,120
Speaker 1: Who would win in a physical fight? Maybe a couple

1996
01:47:24,160 --> 01:47:30,680
Speaker 1: more years. I am you're more You're you're more flexible.

1997
01:47:32,000 --> 01:47:39,040
Speaker 1: Who's funnier? Hm? Hmm. That's a subjective thing, isn't it.

1998
01:47:39,520 --> 01:47:43,120
Speaker 1: I think I think she seels very funny. He is.

1999
01:47:43,360 --> 01:47:48,840
Speaker 1: Timing is is impeccable. I'd say, Sneil, if you guys

2000
01:47:48,840 --> 01:47:52,040
Speaker 1: could do another job, what would it be, you know,

2001
01:47:52,120 --> 01:47:53,760
Speaker 1: if if if you didn't, if you weren't doing what

2002
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:56,040
Speaker 1: you were doing, is there something that you would do?

2003
01:47:59,600 --> 01:48:04,280
Speaker 1: I probably write. I'd probably be a writer, I think

2004
01:48:04,400 --> 01:48:07,599
Speaker 1: as a full time job, just I would. I would

2005
01:48:07,600 --> 01:48:10,120
Speaker 1: write enough, like in my job job to make a

2006
01:48:10,160 --> 01:48:13,040
Speaker 1: living and then work on the side on writing projects.

2007
01:48:13,040 --> 01:48:16,640
Speaker 1: I really loved Okay, So I feel like there's not

2008
01:48:16,680 --> 01:48:19,240
Speaker 1: an actor, although I might write stuff for actors. Maybe

2009
01:48:19,400 --> 01:48:20,840
Speaker 1: you know that type of thing. I don't think I

2010
01:48:22,560 --> 01:48:25,880
Speaker 1: but I love the idea of being able to express

2011
01:48:25,880 --> 01:48:28,240
Speaker 1: in some way like that. I think writing was ended

2012
01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:31,840
Speaker 1: up being sort of a strength for me, something that

2013
01:48:32,360 --> 01:48:34,519
Speaker 1: kind of clicked for me. Do you enjoy being on

2014
01:48:34,560 --> 01:48:37,040
Speaker 1: the air? I mean, is that something you love or

2015
01:48:37,479 --> 01:48:40,599
Speaker 1: is it something that has a shelf life. I think

2016
01:48:40,640 --> 01:48:42,120
Speaker 1: it has a shelf life. I don't think I'll do

2017
01:48:42,120 --> 01:48:45,920
Speaker 1: it forever for sure. I like being on the air

2018
01:48:45,960 --> 01:48:48,800
Speaker 1: when there's important things to talk about. I mean, you know,

2019
01:48:48,840 --> 01:48:51,080
Speaker 1: I guess it's like that in most things in life.

2020
01:48:51,160 --> 01:48:55,439
Speaker 1: I mean, we don't all I think, for any job,

2021
01:48:55,479 --> 01:48:57,840
Speaker 1: I don't think we like all aspects of it. You know,

2022
01:48:57,840 --> 01:49:00,840
Speaker 1: there's things about it that we have to endure. So

2023
01:49:01,000 --> 01:49:03,200
Speaker 1: you know, when you work for twenty four hour news network,

2024
01:49:04,000 --> 01:49:05,360
Speaker 1: you know there's a lot of there's a lot of

2025
01:49:05,400 --> 01:49:07,160
Speaker 1: things that you end up talking about, Like right now,

2026
01:49:07,479 --> 01:49:09,640
Speaker 1: I love my job. I think it's really important. I

2027
01:49:09,680 --> 01:49:12,800
Speaker 1: think that it's uh, it's it feels like it's got

2028
01:49:12,840 --> 01:49:16,760
Speaker 1: purpose to it. But I didn't pine a way to

2029
01:49:16,800 --> 01:49:19,320
Speaker 1: do this sort of work. You know, the writing was

2030
01:49:19,320 --> 01:49:22,320
Speaker 1: the was the common denominator, and through the writing sort

2031
01:49:22,360 --> 01:49:26,040
Speaker 1: of that writing medium became a broadcast medium. About used

2032
01:49:26,040 --> 01:49:28,559
Speaker 1: to what would I probably I probably do one on

2033
01:49:28,560 --> 01:49:33,439
Speaker 1: one conversations on air, like kind of like Larry Larry King? Cool? Yeah?

2034
01:49:33,479 --> 01:49:39,320
Speaker 1: Who would win in Jeopardy Sunday for sure? Sunday? Yeah,

2035
01:49:39,479 --> 01:49:42,759
Speaker 1: I think I'd like I retained a lot of useless

2036
01:49:42,800 --> 01:49:46,240
Speaker 1: stuff in my mind. You know, I think I don't

2037
01:49:46,240 --> 01:49:49,800
Speaker 1: know who's more adventurous. O. That's that's that's got to

2038
01:49:49,840 --> 01:49:53,840
Speaker 1: be Sunday. I think we're both play adventurous. I'd like

2039
01:49:53,880 --> 01:49:56,320
Speaker 1: to say I take you after him, but he's more adventurous.

2040
01:49:57,320 --> 01:50:01,200
Speaker 1: I'm getting there. What if you're in the woods? Okay?

2041
01:50:01,560 --> 01:50:06,800
Speaker 1: Who you're leaning on for survival? You know, I'm talking

2042
01:50:06,840 --> 01:50:14,799
Speaker 1: to nature? Nature stuff? Why are you laughing? This reminds

2043
01:50:14,800 --> 01:50:20,400
Speaker 1: me a flat tire story in San Francisco once didn't

2044
01:50:20,760 --> 01:50:23,639
Speaker 1: very well. My brother brother, What would you have done?

2045
01:50:26,280 --> 01:50:29,439
Speaker 1: No cell phone signal? He's like, so, where exactly is

2046
01:50:29,439 --> 01:50:35,640
Speaker 1: a spare? I'm like, dude, seriously, I don't say it

2047
01:50:35,800 --> 01:50:42,639
Speaker 1: like lift that. Matt all Right asked an answer next question. Well,

2048
01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:46,439
Speaker 1: it's funny because technology, it's always trying to sort of

2049
01:50:46,439 --> 01:50:49,360
Speaker 1: make life easier, and it feels like the father of

2050
01:50:49,400 --> 01:50:52,280
Speaker 1: invention is laziness in a strange way. I mean, it's

2051
01:50:52,320 --> 01:50:54,640
Speaker 1: like we're always trying to make life a little bit

2052
01:50:54,680 --> 01:50:58,360
Speaker 1: easier and we've forgotten how to do the things that

2053
01:50:58,400 --> 01:51:01,320
Speaker 1: we should know how to do. We can call triple

2054
01:51:01,360 --> 01:51:04,280
Speaker 1: A or push on star or whatever nowadays. You know,

2055
01:51:05,240 --> 01:51:07,960
Speaker 1: Oh God, so many questions, but we gotta we gotta

2056
01:51:07,960 --> 01:51:09,800
Speaker 1: get going. Okay, Well, before we do this, I just

2057
01:51:09,840 --> 01:51:11,800
Speaker 1: want to say thank you guys for coming on because

2058
01:51:11,840 --> 01:51:15,200
Speaker 1: this has been such a joy, so much fun. I

2059
01:51:15,240 --> 01:51:17,200
Speaker 1: can talk to you guys for hours, and all I

2060
01:51:17,240 --> 01:51:20,120
Speaker 1: ask is, when you go on the air, just do

2061
01:51:20,240 --> 01:51:23,720
Speaker 1: one of these. Okay, just do one of those. And

2062
01:51:23,760 --> 01:51:26,519
Speaker 1: I know that you know you're thinking about me. Now

2063
01:51:26,560 --> 01:51:28,160
Speaker 1: I gotta do something else. I'm not allowed to touch

2064
01:51:28,200 --> 01:51:30,280
Speaker 1: my face. This is a crazy thing because you keep

2065
01:51:30,320 --> 01:51:31,960
Speaker 1: saying don't touch your face, and yeah, all I want

2066
01:51:31,960 --> 01:51:33,400
Speaker 1: to do is touch my face when I'm on TV.

2067
01:51:33,479 --> 01:51:37,759
Speaker 1: So I need another SIGNALMNNA. I'm gonna how about just

2068
01:51:37,920 --> 01:51:40,439
Speaker 1: raise the roof, you know. Just I'm like, I'm gonna

2069
01:51:40,439 --> 01:51:44,840
Speaker 1: point my pen at okay, watching watching twenty minutes, I'm gonna, okay,

2070
01:51:44,920 --> 01:51:47,799
Speaker 1: point the pen okay, Okay. So here's the last question

2071
01:51:47,840 --> 01:51:51,400
Speaker 1: we asked. So it's a two part question. The first

2072
01:51:51,640 --> 01:51:54,840
Speaker 1: is what is one thing that you wish you could

2073
01:51:54,880 --> 01:51:58,559
Speaker 1: alleviate from your sibling that you think would be in

2074
01:51:58,560 --> 01:52:01,080
Speaker 1: the in the betterment of their for the betterment of

2075
01:52:01,120 --> 01:52:03,400
Speaker 1: their life, something you would sort of take from them.

2076
01:52:03,840 --> 01:52:05,920
Speaker 1: And then the other question is what is one thing

2077
01:52:05,920 --> 01:52:10,960
Speaker 1: that you wish you could emulate. I will nominate you

2078
01:52:11,000 --> 01:52:14,640
Speaker 1: to go first. Okay, all right, I'll go first. In

2079
01:52:14,760 --> 01:52:18,439
Speaker 1: terms of what I would take, I think Sneil has

2080
01:52:18,439 --> 01:52:24,400
Speaker 1: an extraordinary ability to have a very very beautiful ease

2081
01:52:24,680 --> 01:52:29,080
Speaker 1: with life. I think he seems like he's just gracefully

2082
01:52:29,280 --> 01:52:33,120
Speaker 1: moving through life. It's it's pretty to watch. It's like

2083
01:52:33,200 --> 01:52:36,680
Speaker 1: watching a great athlete or a great performer. Not that

2084
01:52:36,800 --> 01:52:39,280
Speaker 1: I'm saying you're this is athletic or performance. I'm just

2085
01:52:39,280 --> 01:52:43,720
Speaker 1: saying your approach to life is is is you make

2086
01:52:43,760 --> 01:52:48,559
Speaker 1: it look easy you really do, which I've always had

2087
01:52:48,560 --> 01:52:51,439
Speaker 1: trouble with that. I feel like I clunked my way

2088
01:52:51,439 --> 01:52:54,320
Speaker 1: through and you know, I'm stutter starting all the time

2089
01:52:54,400 --> 01:52:57,679
Speaker 1: and tripping over my own feet and I can't quite gallop,

2090
01:52:58,000 --> 01:53:01,280
Speaker 1: you know, to get to a run. I think I

2091
01:53:01,280 --> 01:53:05,599
Speaker 1: think in terms of what I would would alleviate for you.

2092
01:53:06,400 --> 01:53:08,560
Speaker 1: I think it would be, you know, any sense of

2093
01:53:08,920 --> 01:53:14,720
Speaker 1: self doubt or or insecurity. We all have insecurities to

2094
01:53:14,760 --> 01:53:17,200
Speaker 1: the extent that I've been the cause of any of

2095
01:53:17,200 --> 01:53:19,320
Speaker 1: that for you, for all the reasons that we joke about.

2096
01:53:19,439 --> 01:53:26,439
Speaker 1: But you know, I would love to alleviate that for you. Yeah,

2097
01:53:26,720 --> 01:53:28,519
Speaker 1: I guess, I guess, I guess that would be it.

2098
01:53:32,760 --> 01:53:35,559
Speaker 1: Maybe I should have gone first. You didn't alleviate it, man,

2099
01:53:35,600 --> 01:53:51,720
Speaker 1: you just make more. That's really really funny. Psych my

2100
01:53:51,920 --> 01:53:55,960
Speaker 1: drop in terms of in terms of emulating, I think

2101
01:53:55,960 --> 01:53:58,679
Speaker 1: that there there's there's so much. I mean, I think

2102
01:54:00,080 --> 01:54:03,559
Speaker 1: this answer won't do it justice. But I a long

2103
01:54:03,560 --> 01:54:06,360
Speaker 1: time ago I read a book called Feeling Good and

2104
01:54:06,800 --> 01:54:10,439
Speaker 1: the one of the psychology book by a guy named

2105
01:54:10,520 --> 01:54:12,599
Speaker 1: David Burns, And one of the things that he wrote

2106
01:54:12,600 --> 01:54:15,840
Speaker 1: in the book is that we need to treat the

2107
01:54:15,880 --> 01:54:18,519
Speaker 1: world as if we all have one unit of worth,

2108
01:54:19,520 --> 01:54:22,400
Speaker 1: no matter who who that person is, no matter even

2109
01:54:22,400 --> 01:54:24,719
Speaker 1: if that person is your boss, that person is worth

2110
01:54:24,960 --> 01:54:26,720
Speaker 1: the same as you. You're worth the same as them.

2111
01:54:27,000 --> 01:54:28,960
Speaker 1: The person is serving you food, the person you're serving

2112
01:54:28,960 --> 01:54:31,719
Speaker 1: food too. We all have one unit of human worth.

2113
01:54:32,600 --> 01:54:35,040
Speaker 1: And I think sun Jay has always sort of just

2114
01:54:35,080 --> 01:54:39,240
Speaker 1: gotten that at his at his deepest, deepest level, no

2115
01:54:40,000 --> 01:54:44,920
Speaker 1: matter where he is, what he's doing, just this idea

2116
01:54:45,000 --> 01:54:48,600
Speaker 1: that we are all in this together. You can say that,

2117
01:54:49,880 --> 01:54:52,160
Speaker 1: but to believe it at your core, to have that

2118
01:54:52,240 --> 01:54:55,320
Speaker 1: be what fuels you every single day, I think is

2119
01:54:55,360 --> 01:54:58,120
Speaker 1: a really special thing. And He's always had that, and

2120
01:54:58,160 --> 01:55:02,080
Speaker 1: I've always admired that, and and I want to I want,

2121
01:55:02,120 --> 01:55:06,040
Speaker 1: I want, I want more of that, genuinely for me

2122
01:55:06,080 --> 01:55:10,640
Speaker 1: and for everybody. I think. I think the thing that

2123
01:55:10,680 --> 01:55:14,839
Speaker 1: I would alleviate, I think is is, you know, Sunday

2124
01:55:14,840 --> 01:55:16,880
Speaker 1: and I talk about this sometimes, I think and I

2125
01:55:16,920 --> 01:55:21,440
Speaker 1: think that we've both evolved with this feeling of of

2126
01:55:21,480 --> 01:55:24,960
Speaker 1: needing to leave a legacy. You know, I think that

2127
01:55:25,000 --> 01:55:27,680
Speaker 1: there's always so much pressure of like, what how the

2128
01:55:27,680 --> 01:55:31,560
Speaker 1: world remember you? And I think, you know, if there's

2129
01:55:31,680 --> 01:55:34,600
Speaker 1: if there's if there's anything. I think that we've kind

2130
01:55:34,600 --> 01:55:38,400
Speaker 1: of both realized together now is that what we really

2131
01:55:38,400 --> 01:55:40,560
Speaker 1: have is our kids, Like those are the people who

2132
01:55:40,600 --> 01:55:43,400
Speaker 1: are going to be talking about us more than anything else.

2133
01:55:43,400 --> 01:55:44,920
Speaker 1: Those are the stories that are going to be shared,

2134
01:55:44,920 --> 01:55:47,680
Speaker 1: Those are the things that matter most to us, and

2135
01:55:47,480 --> 01:55:50,720
Speaker 1: and and I and I and any pressure at all

2136
01:55:51,240 --> 01:55:54,440
Speaker 1: to leave a legacy is the thing that I feel

2137
01:55:54,440 --> 01:55:59,000
Speaker 1: like I would want to alleviate whatever's left to that love.

2138
01:55:59,680 --> 01:56:04,120
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Oh guys, this was awesome. Guys, Thank you

2139
01:56:04,240 --> 01:56:10,000
Speaker 1: so so much. Sibling Revelry is executive goose by Kate Hudson,

2140
01:56:10,040 --> 01:56:13,879
Speaker 1: Oliver Hudson and sim Sarna. Supervising producer is Alison Presnak.

2141
01:56:14,120 --> 01:56:19,600
Speaker 1: Editor is Josh Wendish. Music by Mark Hudson aka Uncle Mary.